Rangers Have gone into Administration

This glorious day needs a thread of it's own

https://p.twimg.com/AlizhR1CIAAZgtb.jpg

^ LOL @ Jim White.

10 point automatic deduction says the rules.

Rangers are to go into administration after lodging the notice in Edinburgh at Monday lunchtime.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11788/7518679/Gers-to-go-into-administration

― James Mitchell, Monday, February 13, 2012 3:22 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

What are the SPL rules on this?

― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:24 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I remember Dundee got deducted something ridiculous like 30 pts

― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:25 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

only because it was their second time. Plus that was SFL rules, SPL precedent will be what happened to Motherwell. 9 or 10 points. Congrats on your league win!

― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:29 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Suspect that the rest of the world doesn't give a monkeys.

Suspect Michel Platini disagrees.

― Sh3rry and the Bloodworks \m/ (onimo), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:30 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― Sh3rry and the Bloodworks \m/ (onimo), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:31 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

SPL precedent will be what happened to Motherwell. 9 or 10 points.

Believe it when I see it

― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:32 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

BBC says an immediate 10-point penalty from the SPL if the club is formally put into administration.

― James Mitchell, Monday, February 13, 2012 3:33 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it wont be thirty. but im pretty sure the rules are 9 or 10 points. Its automatic.

― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:33 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there we go then

― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:33 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if nu rangers are formed then shame on any club chairman who votes to allow them straight into the SPL

― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:34 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And celtic and maybe mad vlad are the only ones who might not vote them in tbh

― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:35 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

BBC says an immediate 10-point penalty from the SPL if the club is formally put into administration.

Still won't believe it till I see it

― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:35 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Jim White's face on SSN...

― Aunt Acid and the Gaviscons (aldo), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:35 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And celtic and maybe mad vlad are the only ones who might not vote them in tbh

Mad Vlad hates both Glasgow clubs. Peter Lawell stated quite clearly that he doesn't think Celtic need Rangers. The other clubs rely on TV money much more than Celtic and would be much more likely to attempt to salvage a TV deal should Rangers fold.

― Sh3rry and the Bloodworks \m/ (onimo), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:37 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― Sh3rry and the Bloodworks \m/ (onimo), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:39 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Awesome!!!!!!!!!

― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:40 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Anyway, that'll only put them 14 points behind us, easy peasy

― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:41 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

He was almost crying just now interviewing the Wolves chairman.

It's a glorious coincidence it was him on as it happened though.

― Aunt Acid and the Gaviscons (aldo), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:41 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

G_d, he can barely speak. Stumbling over every word.

― Aunt Acid and the Gaviscons (aldo), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:42 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol @ jim white.

― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:43 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

When Kirsty mentioned it there he put on the dictionary definition of "brave face".

― Aunt Acid and the Gaviscons (aldo), Monday, February 13, 2012 3:45 PM (2 minutes ago

i have no real affinity to spl beyond mid-90's celtic fervour and a willing acknowledgement that larsson is one of the top ten players in britain of the last double-decade, yet, still-lol

it's lol for many many reasons. but this is the club who won 9 in a row and totally dominated (as Ailsa points it , by it turns out cheating) the 90s. Quite a downfall and utter humiliation. But sadly they can form a new club and will be voted straight back into the SPL. No european footy for 3 years though iirc.

very interesting what happens the wider spl, a one-club league can't last.

Two club league is scarcely thriving

no doubt celtic would try to get into the EPL if rangers ceased to exist. Dunno if the EPL would do it though. TV money would go down for sure once the contract ran out. Like was said on the other thread, its the other teams who rely on money because of rangers (and celtic)

I dont think the celtic board would like less tv money due to no rangers though. Might be harder to attract top players if the league becomes a real mickey mouse one.

but atm noone cares as its all lol rangers. Will need to wait and see how it all plays out.

but this is the club who won 9 in a row and totally dominated (as Ailsa points it , by it turns out cheating) the 90s

All the while, smirking at the Paupers of Parkhead

aye "for every £1 Celtic spends Rangers will spend £5"

... though tbf to them they've been calling Celtic fans paupers since 1888

i think i can speak for all of english football fans when i say lol

They weren't paupers though, they had a very large biscuit tin!

Did anyone expect Rangers to go into administration before the result of the tax case? I didn't.

Will they still need to pay the tax bill? What happens here?

More to the point, where is Ailsa?

presumably
A) doing a lap of honour round paisley
B) getting ratfaced celebrating
C) checking up on all the facts i speak of to answer them
D) being forced to work
E) still in orbit

Onimo isn't posting in this thread either

onimo has a Scottish football thread for this stuff that wasn't exactly overrun with other content tbh

Two threads dedicated to "Let's all laugh at Rangers/ Let's all laugh at Rangers/ Ha ha ha/ Ha ha ha" is fine by me

fair dos

it just makes it much easier to find in the archives. plus its a thread im sure that will be revived many times.

plus what tom says

At a guess, they've had an advance indication of the decision and are preëmpting things. They'll still owe the £x million, it'll be another claim in the estate for the administrator to deal with. He runs the club, paying off bills in the meantime if he can, with a view to eventual sale with all debts settled. Secured debts get paid in full first (i.e. White himself, I gather) then unsecured in proportion if there's any cash left. Tax bill will be unsecured.

Or they may just have run out of cash, equally possible - I know that petty creditors, way smaller than the lawyers' bills that have had some publicity, are going unpaid.

would be real lols if even if the tax bill wasn't there they would still be in administration.

Ailsa is busy, sorry. And reading the other thread.

The tax bill isn't there. The tribunal hasn't published a verdict yet.

Isn't this a bit premature, given that they haven't actually gone into administration?

but atm noone cares as its all lol rangers.

Um, no? We've been debating the ramifications for a while now.

And I did expect them to go into administration pre-taxcase result. Join the list of creditors plz, HMRC, cheers.

looks like Pompey are going into administration again

xp
its only a formality though. the process has started, it just has to go through legal hoops (lol) n stuff

jim white says craig whyte is taking legal advice over what he can say but he might come on SSN.

A statement from Whyte said "its the first step on the road to ending the uncertainty thats surrounded Rangers for 2-3 years"

"are you fucked?"
"aye, definitely".

That's seemed certain to a lot of us for quite some time.

Lawwell has said again "celtic dont need rangers and neither do most other scottish clubs". I think it's pretty safe to say that Celtic will not vote to allow a nu rangers in the SPL should that come about.

Whilst on this subject we had to ask about administration; its possibility and effect. Mr Whyte reiterated his view that it is a last resort and not Plan A or Plan B. However given the uncertainty surrounding the HMRC verdict it is simply not possible to say for certain what strategy will be adopted until the decision is known. We then asked what happens if the worst case scenario arrives and we do go in to administration. Mr Whyte’s response was that it wouldn’t be pleasant and cuts would have to be made but the club would come out of it in a far healthier state. A 10 point deduction is the current penalty for a club going in to administration and not every season as certain rumour mongers were happy to shout out at every opportunity. The phrase “Business as Usual” was used.

^from minutes of a meeting between Whyte and a supporter's group, last week. I wonder what happened to plans A and B over the weekend...

no doubt he will blame murray

Anyone voting them back in if it comes to that can fuck off, btw. Condoning cheating is NAGL.

I'm happy for them to work their way back up. Might do Scottish football some good in the short term, increased gates in the lower divisions, possibility of TV deal of some sort for the lower leagues, spread some money about a bit.

A statement from Whyte said "its the first step on the road to ending the uncertainty thats surrounded Rangers for 2-3 years"

That hyphen's a mistake, surely?

He needs to learn to pronounce his apostrophes as well, aid whoever was transcribing that.

Anyone voting them back in if it comes to that can fuck off, btw. Condoning cheating is NAGL.

otm
but chairmen rarely do what the fans want.

They will if the fans stop going because the league's a fucking bogey.

Administration isn't the worst-case scenario, liquidation is. 10-point penalties are neither here nor there in this tbh.

Question: if the tax bill comes in at even, say, £30m, and gets added to whatever the other liabilities are; how are they ever going to generate enough to achieve any sort of acceptable settlement?

He needs to learn to pronounce his apostrophes as well, aid whoever was transcribing that.

― ailsa, Monday, February 13, 2012 4:56 PM

oh come off it, no need to make fun of me for not putting apostrophes in

They aren't.

I can't see them trading their way out of this one like Motherwell and Dundee managed.

There's a suspicion that Whyte has put Ibrox and/or Murray Park up as security against the Ticketus loan.

xpost - I thought you'd cut and pasted it from somewhere!

but chairmen rarely do what the fans want.

Like the assumption than fans of other clubs all want to see Rangers suffer. You mean like the Killie fans that were celebrating Rangers winning the league last season?

^ first sentence came out as gobbledygook

well some clubs have some fans who do like Rangers some who like Celtic and some who hate both. That's Scotland.

and clubs like airdrie and killie who have more than others

#mystrangeaddiction ruining the full house

Trends: Glasgow trends · change
#simplythebust
#mystrangeaddiction
#jellyandicecream
Rangers
SPL
Ibrox
Jim White
HMRC
Craig Whyte
SSN

but i know a few killie fans and they all hate rangers and celtic.

jellyandicecream?

Just got a phone call from a mate of mine, said he passed Ibrox on the way home from work and there was an 'ugly crowd' gathered outside. I said they're usually inside and there's even a song about it.

Celtic fans have been singing "jelly and ice cream when Rangers die" for weeks. Some have even made things like this

http://thecelticblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/tricolour-jelly-150x150.jpg

btw, tv money is relatively shite, and attendances suffer because of it necessitating travelling to the other end of the country for a noon kickoff, or a 6pm on a Wednesday or whatever.

Fuck the TV money, fuck Rangers, fuck cheating, fuck everyone assuming Celtic will break for the border as soon as Rangers go down. Let's give it a go without them, if it happens. Which it should.

xpost Jelly and icecream when Rangers die (also "having a party", "doing the conga", "passing the parcel" and last weekend's new addition "pissing on Ibrox") Reappropriation of a song about Thatcher.

Actually........ When you go into administration, you basically have to accept most bids for players. Transfer window is shut , so unless some russians fancy Rangers players then as long as Rangers come out of it by the transfer window , they wont need to sell anyone.

xps

ahh ok

Fuck the TV money, fuck Rangers, fuck cheating, fuck everyone assuming Celtic will break for the border as soon as Rangers go down. Let's give it a go without them, if it happens. Which it should.

totally with you here.

When you go into administration, you basically have to accept most bids for players.

So what players do you fancy, Celtic fans?

McGregor gets on great guns with Thommo

hes the only one worth buying tbh.

I can see a lot of people losing jobs here, even amongst the playing staff. If you're an administrator who's just taken over and you have to pay e.g. £7.5k a week to first team player Daniel Cousin, what do you do with e.g. fringe player with "limited ability" Kirk Broadfoot?

btw i was wrong re the precedent being Motherwell. Those cunts got off scot free, it was Gretna who received the automatic 10 point deduction.

as long as Rangers come out of it by the transfer window , they wont need to sell anyone.

How do you propose they trade themselves back out of administration? (I predict they don't, with a firesale at the end of the season and redundancies galore before that to get shot of the wages from the shit guys xpost, what onimo said)

Wouldn't take any of them, tbh.

Excuse me, Scotland international Kirk Broadfoot (xp)

Rangers players I'd have in Celtic's first XI: McGregor (mibbe, big Fraser's been good lately - even preventing actual goals that have gone in) & Bocanegra.

I can see a lot of people losing jobs here, even amongst the playing staff. If you're an administrator who's just taken over and you have to pay e.g. £7.5k a week to first team player Daniel Cousin, what do you do with e.g. fringe player with "limited ability" Kirk Broadfoot?

pick him for scotland then make fun of him

How do you propose they trade themselves back out of administration? (I predict they don't, with a firesale at the end of the season and redundancies galore before that to get shot of the wages from the shit guys xpost, what onimo said)

i don't know how. I can just see the reasoning why they did it now rather than before or later on in the season, it just gives them the maximum amount of time to try to solve it without having a firesale

rangers have released a statement. Something about it's not guaranteed they will go into administration (im paraphrasing here) and its business as usual

they havent decided yet if they will proceed with it

and he's had a go at murray and the previous board

Seriously? I'm convinced the reason they did it now is to pre-empt the taxman taking what's left and assure Whyte's status as preferred creditor over HMRC.

xpost The guy is an unreliable asset stripper. I'm inclined to not believe a word he says, tbh.

well yeah that's also possible

I think if they had enough money to tide them over or had any feeling they'd win the tax case they'd have hung on until being granted a UEFA licence for next season. As it stands I can't see them being out of administration in time to apply, meaning Motherwell and Hearts could be fighting for a Champions League place. Let's ask them if they want a strong Rangers.

OK RANGERS YOU'VE MADE IT PERSONAL NOW. DO NOT LET THOSE CUNTS FROM MOTHERWELL INTO THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!

"its the first step on the road to ending the uncertainty thats surrounded Rangers for the last 2-3 minutes"

apparently there's been great gifs posted on Pie And Bovril about all this, but i'm still not reading that shite, so feel free to post any you come across.

The Club has put forward a CVA proposal to HMRC in which creditors would be paid and provision made for the legacy HMRC case, commonly known as the 'big tax' case.

a few months ago Whyte was saying the rangerstaxcase.com blog was a load of old shite, now he's using their shorthand.

The Rangers FC Group, the majority shareholder in the Club, is prepared to provide further funding for the Club on the basis the funding is ring-fenced from the legacy HMRC issue.

"we want to buy more players without paying tax"

hyphen is the strongest zing i've seen in some time, kudos

Billionaire Craig Whyte, lest we forget
https://p.twimg.com/Ali0kWUCQAAP6Sa.jpg

Wealth off the radar!

https://p.twimg.com/Aliw0aQCQAAJe5Y.jpg

Billionaire Craig Whyte, lest we forget

Was that the unimpeachably even-handed Daily Record by any chance?

I do love pfunkboy's adherence to the idea that proven crook and fraudster and venture capitalist Craig Whyte might be doing things in the best interests of Rangers though.

Yes indeed. They reported last week on their own journalistic standards by saying "Craig Whyte's PR told us 'just call him a billionaire' - so we did!"

xp

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/513548621.jpg?Expires=1329156032&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=XsGet9meWM~XRZmxN6~54EO-1hrigGQ6qU2TqkfF3KaMouu0QkV-7-wSFEae1UHJZt~OlKONG5GUkgSIwVVRnZhv1XuTc9YHy5-0INE69Tnhc7llK4mQnILLXTs1pL0RG0oPKSYRrVjJmcw~LUO9KdA8pk-9S9OS0agUSUbvJTw_

We were the people! Hahaha! Love it.

Tesco bringing the lols

https://twitter.com/#!/UKTesco/status/165867627229626369

@hendybhoy Yup quite a few offers on ready to eat & blocks of jelly & tubs of ice cream. All the makings of a #JellyandIceCreamExtravaganza

Anyway, I was a wee bit down in the dumps as I came into work this morning but am leaving this evening with a pronounced spring in my step all thanks to the Most Successful Club Team in the World

I might quickly retrain myself in laser tattoo removal, lot of extraneous stars might need taken off shortly.

rangers fans will be proclaiming that they will continue supporting rangers during these darkest of days in their hour of need (from their armchairs as they've never been to a game in their lives)

Looking forward to using this one shortly:

http://i39.tinypic.com/dw8eom.jpg

Good day for Peter Lawell to announce a £7m drop in profits.

think scotland today and reporting scotland might be worth watching tonight

BBC Scotland's business and economy editor, Douglas Fraser, said the legal moves on Monday surrounding administration would give the club "a few days for negotiations with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC)".

The revenue could stand to lose out on any tax due if Mr Whyte chooses to collapse the company.

Mr Whyte is understood to be the club's main secured creditor via a floating charge over its assets.

This would allow him to pursue other avenues such as receivership or pre-pack administration to satisfy the debts which the club owes him.

These would involve transferring Rangers assets out to another company or companies to satisfy outstanding debts to the floating charge holder and leaving the club behind with the debt.

In such scenarios, it would be likely that Rangers FC - formed in 1873 - would be formally wound up.

I'm still at work so I'll miss it. Can't see them doing more than regurgitating what's been reported by Rangers' official media partner STV on their website.

The real fun will be on the phone-ins. I demand at least one crying bear.

What happens to the players?

That is very much down to the administrator. When a club enters administration, there is a moratorium on the debt to allow the club the chance to continue. Players' contracts are still valid and will continue to be honoured if the administrator decides the club can afford to do so.

There may be some redundancies if the administrator decides there is not enough cashflow to pay everyone, but it is often preferable to retain the club's top players if possible, if only to sell them on in the next transfer window.

Players may be asked to take a wage cut or, if players are made redundant, they may be offered a settlement. If that is deemed unacceptable they become another of the club's creditors.

What about assets like Ibrox Stadium and the club's training facility at Murray Park - could they be sold?

All of the club's assets revert to the administrator, whose aim is to exit administration by satisfying creditors. As such, the administrator must decide how best to raise the money required to do that, for example selling players or, indeed, fixed assets.

By that rationale, Ibrox and Murray Park could be sold, though the sale of the stadium is more problematic because of the listed building status of the main stand there. Glasgow planning regulations are said to prohibit the training complex being sold for residential development, making the land less attractive to developers.

Can Rangers continue as the same club, with the same history?

Yes, as has been the case with previous clubs who have gone into administration. But it is not always the case. In the example of Airdrie, for instance, the club went out of business, then bought over the registration of Clydebank, who were themselves in administration, and formed Airdrie United, a completely different entity.

When has this happened before in the SPL and what were the consequences?

Four clubs have gone into administration since the SPL was formed in 1998. The first of those was Motherwell in April 2002. They avoided a points penalty, as no such punitive rule existed at that time, but 19 players were released or made redundant.

Dundee also avoided a 10-point deduction, having entered administration in 2004 with debts of around £20m, resulting in 25 staff losing their jobs. They had begun the process of coming out of administration in time to miss the points penalty.

The scenario was the same for Livingston, who had seven players made redundant. But in 2008, Gretna were docked 10 points and ultimately went out of business following the withdrawal of funding by their owner Brooks Mileson.

If Rangers qualify for Europe next season, will they be allowed to play in European competition?

That depends. If they come out of administration as the same entity, their license to compete in Uefa competitions would be issued by the Scottish Football Association, provided they had exited administration by the end of March.

Failure to exit administration by then would mean they would not have a license and wouldn't be able to compete in Europe next season.

If they come out of administration as a different entity, their license would lapse and they would have to apply for a new one. It would then be up to the SFA and Uefa to decide if a new license can be granted.

Scotland Today presenters are all wearing black and have black armbands on.

Can't listen to the phone-ins, but might go for a wee listen again tomorrow if I get a chance. News just burbling shite that most well-read and/or not stupid people know already.

alastair johnson getting an easy ride, hes slagging whyte saying he will only look after himself not the clubs interests, but noones saying but it was your board that caused this not whyte's.

What did his board cause? This has nothing to do with the tax case, which is the old board's fault.

Craig Whyte said he would pay off the Lloyd's debt and invest an additional 15 million in the club. He took over just as all the season ticket money came in. He borrowed another 20 mill against future ticket sales. He sold their top scorer. Where is the money?

Why let the facts get in the way of random speculation?

im talking about the board johnson was on

the problems all started there. not just the tax case. clearly they were in trouble anyway. Whyte obviously not blameless since he took over.

Rangers statement in full
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-17019847

So what odds accountancy's answer to Stuart Baxter, KPMG's Blair Nimmo, will be made administrator...?

Some are saying that Whyte is just trying to 'twist the arm' of hmrc into giving in (to what extent i don't know) , but if they don't, Rangers will go into administration to protect Whyte.

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/02/stop-the-blame-excuses-craig.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyRecord%2FJimTraynor+%28The+Daily+Record+-+Jim+Traynor%29

thats traynor off whytes xmas card list

https://img.skitch.com/20120213-rraiw88yip5u57pdgxus6kxwyb.jpg

pfunkboy, that "some are saying..." thing is what we've been saying for ages - that Whyte is out for himself and fuck Rangers and fuck their creditors. If this is just dawning on because you refuse to believe researched stuff read from somewhere unless it's in black and white in a tabloid, then you are basically Hugh Keevins.

i am not refusing to believe anything.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-17021584

A stockbroking company which has Rangers owner Craig Whyte as board secretary has been banned from further trading by the financial regulator.

The Financial Services Authority has ruled that Pritchard Stockbrokers had used client money for its own expenses, "thereby putting client money at risk".

That means it "failed to comply with the proper standards and failed to act with integrity".

"where's yer fuckin billion pound ya cunt?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIjgyHui3A0

lol

there was a fit and proper test taken, right?
Did david murray give it so that he could get out with some of his money intact?

i think mr whyte has over taken over from our own mr w@tson, Foolston and friends.

xp

they weren't very happy bears

hahaha, what an epitaph

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/408049_3263165466506_1488314575_3165787_98406601_n.jpg

Gers fans staying classy on twitter

i think on saturday a very loud rendition of BILLY BOYS is in order..... what they gonna do... dock us points ;) WATP

Administration, job losses, unpaid taxes, possibility of liquidation? WE HATE KAFFLIKS!

The Financial Services Authority has ruled that Pritchard Stockbrokers had used client money for its own expenses, "thereby putting client money at risk".

pretty fundamental breach of FSA handbook rules

doesn't rain but it pours for whyte

can't wait till Saturday.Bring back the billy boys for the day.Ram it up every rangers hating piece of shit #nosurrender

Gers fans staying classy on twitter

i think on saturday a very loud rendition of BILLY BOYS is in order..... what they gonna do... dock us points ;) WATP

Administration, job losses, unpaid taxes, possibility of liquidation? WE HATE KAFFLIKS!

can't wait till Saturday.Bring back the billy boys for the day.Ram it up every rangers hating piece of shit #nosurrender

fucking scotland. makes me hate my country some times.

i bet theres arseholes out there blaming catholics for all of it

Need to change it to "Goodbye! Goodbye! We were the Billy Boys"

or jewish and catholic bankers

who do they play this weekend? They will hump them then the games after that the lols should begin.

please tell me its motherwell

the "ha ha" version of TBB remains one of my favourite get it right up ye chants

They've got Killie. Pretty much one of those friendship games with half and half scarves.

https://p.twimg.com/AlkGvH0CQAAI28X.jpg

idg this "when rangers die" meme

is it a reference to something I'm missing?

the "ha ha" version of TBB remains one of my favourite get it right up ye chants

most clubs do that. Especially against Airdrie. its the one song every joins in

at accies that is. i daresay if we ever bet celtic the hail hail tune would be sung but its never happened in my time. I wasn't at the 2-0 game late 80s (because i was at the previous 8-0 drubbing and decided i didnt want to witness it again)

idg this "when rangers die" meme

it is a reference to what some see as the endgame here - administration > receivership > liquidation > RIP big man heaven needed a dignified institution.

I don't think they will die. I think Whyte honestly believes he can get them into administration, fuck over his creditors and get back out in time to be debt free and getting a UEFA licence on 31st March.

i agree. though if he forms nu-rangers after march 31 he can apply for a new license

New clubs are not allowed to compete in European competitions for three full seasons.

I thought a new club couldn't play in Europe for three years?

xpost

ahh yeah, of course.

i was going by whatever news program said that they could re-apply.
I think if he is hoping HMRC will negotiate a lower bill by saying he will pull the plug and they get nothing, then he almost certainly will need to start over again as Nu-Rangers. I can't imagine HMRC agreeing to take a lower amount even if scottish media start saying its better the taxpayer gets something instead of nothing(i can honestly see that happening).

Imagine every business then trying to 'negotiate' like that? So not going to happen.

Aw, man, *finally* got SSN on. Gordon Smith!

btw, I'm trusting bloggers who appear to understand tax laws and financial rules and various related laws and guidelines above pishy hacks trying to flog papers/fill news reports who have done the square root of fuck all research into a guy with a well fucking dodgy history and any implications. It's not like they haven't had time to find this stuff out. It was only ever a case of when, not if.

cozen, more specifically, that song was originally about having a party when Thatcher dies and has been updated for the imminent demise of another scourge on Scotland. They might not die as such, but waiting for it has been entertaining.

I wish this had happened a week when I could give this my full concentration :-/

Traynor presumably not on Whyte's Christmas card list anyway as an employee of the Beeb (who he's fallen out with and keeps forgetting to sue) *and* the Record who finally broke ranks first on the Ticketus debt.

http://i.imgur.com/kIhsp.png

in the spirit of the community i volunteer myself as your token target-of-abuse rangers fan.

lol i was about to ask if ilx had any rangers supporters

Hi Merdeyeux, I am keeping my abuse for the dafties who didn't see it coming and still think it's a press/Kafflik/taxman conspiracy to defeat Ra Gers. Some of my best friends, etc, and I feel a teensy bit sorry for them that their club has been abused to this extent. But that's just because I am basically a nice person. The reality is, they fucked over the whole of Scottish football for years (and withholding taxes from the country to boot) so fuck 'em right back. And they are, by and large, horrible. Turns out I'm not that nice. I hope in an ideal world that my mates get to go and find a club with a less odious history to support and the world becomes a better place.

(this will not happen)

Can we get a quick summary of your views on it all?

Report in today's Sun that their game on Saturday might be off as they can't afford to have it policed. Byeeeee!

Ready cash is going to be a huge problem for them. Attendances are sliding and, like us, most of their ticket income is already in. Rumour hazzit Whyte has flogged the catering. It costs around £300k to put a game on so it might be a struggle...

Where's the 3/4/5 million they got for Jelavic a fortnight ago?

£300k! How does that break down?

Monaco xpost

Can't remember where I first read it but it was broken down, I'll have a look. Most of it was policing, which might be stepped up if there's an angry bears protest.

Turns out the 300k figure was unique to "old firm" games.

http://videocelts.com/2012/02/blogs/police-question-for-rangers-v-kilmarnock-match says it's it low tens of thousands but the police may want payment up front to avoid any pennies in the pound rubbish once admin kicks in.

I've no idea why anyone supplies to football clubs on any other basis tbh

HMRC applying to have an administrator appointed, statement due shortly.

What if they go in and out of administration before the BIG tax case is ruled? They'd need to go straight back in and would be docked an extra 25 points (using Dundee's precedent of second administration). That would put them alongside ICT in 10th.

Can we get a quick summary of your views on it all?

tbh i can't say i care very much. the head-in-the-ground self-destructiveness of the last few years combined with the consistent scumminess of general business and playing practices haven't made for something i've been enthusiastic about being invested in, and it feels like so long since i was seriously invested that i only feel the tiniest sliver of a connection to the club as it is today.

Yeah, most of the Rangers fans I know are such through family ties and are basically scunnered or embarrassed out of it by now.

I wonder if Whyte's pulling a proper flanker here.

Rangers apparently transferred the £2.8m "wee tax bill" money to HMRC recently. They owe Whyte's company £18m and owe Ticketus £20-24m. Has he borrowed all that money to ensure HMRC can be outvoted in a CVA? Doing this now means the big tax bill doesn't factor, meaning HMRC own less than 25% of the debt and can be shafted into taking a fraction of what they are due.

Dunno what the end game there is once the big tax bill actually lands but it sounds like at least half of a strategy.

Whyte is the secured creditor wrt to the club itself, so he is in the driving seat in terms of administration. Looks like a relatively canny move on Whyte's part - take the preliminary steps, forcing HMRC (as unsecured presently contingent creditor) to make their move, which means that Whyte's "only choice" is to appoint an administrator as secured creditor and then pre-pack the thing into a new entity.

The only problem with pre-pack is the issue of not being able to play in Europe for three years - though that comes to a lot less than the debt they're trying to kill - but it allows Whyte to effectively own all of Rangers assets (presumably getting his catering business back and not paying HMRC or Ticketus anything like they're owed - meaning he gets to keep future season ticket sales).

(though Ticketus might well be with Whyte on the whole thing and will get their share)

How much is Ibrox Stadium valued at? I remember a few years back it was around £180m on their balance sheet - does post-pre-pack Whyte get that for using £18m of (allegedly) someone else's money.

HMRC and Rangers are currently in court arguing about who gets to appoint an administrator. Rangers are attempting to do so immediately, HMRC are seeking assurances Rangers won't appoint one until the hearing is over. They have accused Rangers of trading while insolvent.

They have stopped for 20 minutes and the HMRC brief is concerned Rangers will appoint an administrator during the break!

I was wondering how much it can be worth - terrible part of town, part-listed building, only one feasible tenant. It must be worth something, but can't be that much surely. iirc it has lots of waste ground with it fwiw. The training ground I know nothing about.

Whyte would get his debt satisfied out of a sale if he's secured, then the rest goes into the administration.

HMRC told the court that it had applied to the court to appoint an administrator on Monday, before Rangers lodged their intention to appoint an administrator.

Where are you getting this?

STV court reporters on twitter, summary here

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/297531-rangers-appointing-administrators-today/

Anyone interested in the whole tax case shebang should start here http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/03/28/what-is-rangers-tax-case-all-about/ - this is the first entry from almost a year ago and the entire blog has been completely ignored or derided by mainstream media until recent events. Loads of good stuff from then on - lots of triumphalist crap in the comments but some really knowledgeable people in there too.

I love the tagline

"What they are saying is 99 percent crap" Craig Whyte

boo

https://twitter.com/#!/carasulieman/status/169415914364739584

#Rangers given until 3.30pm to appoint administrators. If they do HMRC's application will no longer stand.

29 point turnaround in the league since 6th November. Neil Lennon is some manager.

The stadium and associated land are not going to be saleable assets, for a number of reasons. Murray Park, though...

weird for the league to be virtually over by valentine's day.

Statement from Duff and Phelps:

http://www.creditman.biz/uk/members/news-view.asp?newsviewID=15248&id=1&mylocation=News&chksrc=NNow4251

Duff & Phelps advised Whyte's company throughout the takeover. You can see why HMRC wanted their own man in.

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/dailyrecord3/feb2012/0/3/david-grier-far-left-with-craig-whyte-and-rangers-advisers-at-ibrox-940788559.jpg

David Grief, far left, in the director's box shortly after the takeover, is expected to be the administrator.

https://p.twimg.com/AlnucUbCAAETiQs.jpg

HMRC withdraw petition, Duff and Phelps in apparently...

RadioClydeNews Radio Clyde News
Strathclyde Police seek urgent meeting with Rangers to ensure that any payment for policing costs at future Rangers games is guaranteed.

Just been past Ibrox on a bus. They're not exactly out in their, um, dozens.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2vdse8h.jpg

On a related note, Pompey fan on Sky Sports News just described their administration as "déjà vu all over again"

Sheesh, third don't seem to be any closer

http://tinyurl.com/7pxclbg

Should've read that 'Little Miss Lucky' book.

From a BBC tweet

HMRC: We can’t discuss specific cases but tax that has been deducted at source from wages of players & staff must b paid over 2 us

Does this imply they've been taking PAYE and not passing it on?

HMRC asked judge 2 let them force admin because of NEW tax debts, not the EBT sum....millions of unpaid tax since CW's arrival #rfc

Where is the money?

dying @ this, posted on a gers forum

http://i42.tinypic.com/1t0ap1.jpg

fans on telly saying how shocked they were and how there was no warning wtf

HMRC statement: "We can't discuss specific cases for legal reasons but tax that has been deducted at source from the wages of players and support staff such as ground keepers and physios must be paid over to HMRC. Any business that fails to meet that basic legal requirement puts the survival of the business at risk."

it's just dawned on me that we'll maybe win the league when im on holiday now :| solipsist csc.

Accies got a points deduction that relegated us for failing to play a game (players went on strike because they repeatedly never got paid). So Rangers better get a similar punishment if they fail to play at the weekend.

Kinda wish there was an Old Firm game coming up - it'd be mayhem though no doubt

£9m in unpaid tax, VAT and NI since the takeover, HMRC petition for administration had nothing to do with the potential £49m big tax case.

crooked cheating cunts

Bloody hell, I'm actually a bit shocked by that. There's no excuse for not being able to pay VAT.

My face hurts, can't do much more smiling. But I'll try.

There's a world record number of league titles to win, man (xp)

cant smile too much as they will be back as nu-rangers. woulda been better if HMRC had put them into administration, then they would be fucked

they're the floaters of football, no matter how hard you flush they rise back to the top (league)

Scotzine reporting that Rangers' appointed administrators Duff and Phelps are owners of a company called Merchant Recovery. Craig Whyte is a director of Merchant Recovery.

Patter Merchant Recovery morelikeaimrite

is that legal?

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2111&newsCategoryID=36&newsID=9316

Shocking statement from the SFA full of regret about the position Rangers "find themselves" in WTF. They put themselves there. No criticism of financial doping. No criticism of failing to pay tax. No sympathy for creditors (including member clubs!).

Simon Kuper had a good piece somewhere recently criticising Bayern Munich as a blot on the game - his idea was that clubs never fail completely, they can always be reconstituted if necessary, so any club living within its means, building sustainable revenues, paying tax, etc. doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.

the sfa cant turn round and say what you want onimo. you wouldnt like it if they criticised the running of your club.

I don't know, they've found it quite easy to criticise Hearts over their finances.

with lots of clubs budgets for this season and next season being based on tv money, money owed by rangers, relying on games against rangers et al, a few clubs might just go bust themselves and its highly unlikely they could just reinvent themselves and start over as they aren't an 'institution' like rangers

And that isn't a reason for the SFA criticise them?

well true. but one rule for big clubs etc

I guess it's too much to hope that Rangers get reinvented as something better, like half-a-dozen smaller, less hateful clubs?

paul murray is now saying he will try to buy rangers from the administrators. So Whyte wont be able to just buy them debt free for buttons and start nu-rangers

pfunk I sometimes think you're on crack. The SFA and SPL have been hammering Hearts for their financial problems. They've just had to pay a £500k tax bill while RANGERS OWE THEM £800K. It is the SFA's job to protect its members. All of its members. Not just "Scottish institutions".

The SFA's statement is a disgraces.

-s

pfunk I sometimes think you're on crack.

that kind of personal abuse is really uncalled for

But I've a sneaking suspicion we might get Hodgson For England after all.

you turned traitor you cunt?

― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Wednesday, February 8, 2012 10:02 PM (6 days ago)

lol

it was a friendly scottish cunt!

"Apparently, from 1997 to 2011, Rangers spent £160M more than they earned and, in addition, dodged a further £45M tax from the use of EBT."

anyway ismael apologies if you were offended by that

wait a min £160m? where did you get that quote from?

Heh no, don't worry xp - it was a bit of surprise, but I took it in the spirit intended (I hope)

I really need to remember to add emoticons when I'm joking. sorry bout that.

pfunk I sometimes think you're on crack ;)

;)

wait a min £160m? where did you get that quote from?

― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper)

mark donaldson on twitter. u.s. based journo.

BBC Scotland reported tonight David Murray lost £100M over three consecutive seasons.

Or rather Rangers under David Murray, amirite?

£160m over that period = £11.4m per season - that doesn't seem that outrageous when the current owner said they're losing £10m a season as recently as last week. They were £80m in debt under David Murray at one point - only reduced to £30m when Murray's company underwrote a £51m share issue.

Mark Donaldson's wrong about the tax though, they didn't dodge £45m in tax. Their total bill for misusing EBTs is likely to be around £45m but much of that is in penalties and interest. The dodged tax due to EBTs is closer to £25m over ten years.

Whyte's £9m unpaid in 9 months puts that in the shade imo.

£10m a year losses despite cuts is quite astonishing.

That's not so outlandish xp in a business where you're forever hearing at other clubs about the owner 'putting money into the club' with only the occasional reference to it being a loan, rather than a gift. If all these clubs had to pay it back (I assume Murray took a shedload out before he left?) they wouldn't look so healthy.

Are there any clubs living within their means? I think pretty much all scottish clubs owe debts, even if it's to the owners(as in Accies case) rather than banks or whatever.

also hehe xp

Can I just say that this is all brilliantly hilarious.

yes you can

https://p.twimg.com/Alo8fWQCIAAnZhV.jpg

Are there any clubs living within their means? I think pretty much all scottish clubs owe debts

Celtic have been in profit two years running and have reduced debt to a very manageable £7m (from a high of more than three times that in the MO'N era). We also have a first team worth imo much more than it cost. Hence our CEO saying we don't need Rangers.

I'd still like to shift a dozen players on, mind, and so would he. Contracts can be a pain in the arse, unless you're in administration.

I've covered it on the Finances of Football thread, but a club (like any business) should be able to carry debt so long as they can service the interest. With interest rates so low, arguably not having debt is a corporate failure to some degree because they should be able to generate better returns than their interest payments by borrowing to increase capacity or whatever (may not apply to Scotland).

Man Utd ran for years with very little debt. That's what let the Glazers in - they realised the club had so much capacity to carry a debt that they were able to use that debt to fund their takeover, then let the club pay for it.

Unconfirmed rumours suggest that Hearts are to merge with Rangers and become Heart of Midlothian Rangers Club. HMRC for short.

oooooh

queen's pork rangers

Queen Porks Rangers shrly

just playing disciplinarian, im sure she'll be gentle for such loyal friends

they need a spoonful of
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01365/alan_sugar_1365027c.jpg

theres abt ten in a can of irn bru

Celtic's (and other clubs) 'manageable' debts are still surely dependent on the current amount of money coming into football.
Dont all these clubs need the tv money as it is? That could be cut or disappear completely if Rangers go out of business. Not to mention the knock-on effect of attendances going down, no old firm derby dvds to be sold. Attendances could go down further if it was a 1 team league. Also players might decide they would rather play in a bigger league as SPL is mickey mouse, or can earn much more money as clubs cant even pay what they do now on an even bigger scale than has been happening. Better players signing from outside Scotland for Celtic might not happen. If the players playing here are of lesser quality. Automatic champs league qualification could be meaningless if you're knocked out before group stages and/or don't even get in uefa league.
Celtic and others might not need Rangers but I'm pretty damn sure they will still suffer from it.

Also players might decide they would rather play in a bigger league as SPL is mickey mouse

uhm

they already do nakh, so it's only going to happen on a larger scale

the tv money is fuck all, the great majority of celtic's money is from merchandise and the match day. the great majority of our match days are not against rangers.

i think it's probably fair to say that at least some match day revenue relies on having a rangers to rival you for the league, tho

how much is 'fuck all'? If you're £7m in debt then you need all the money you can get otherwise you need to cut back on the playing side or youth set up.

xp
yes i would think so too deems

£7m debt is fuck all. A football club is a business. One with a fairly high turnover. All business operate a debt. Our debt is consistently down year on year, despite the fact that we've not been in the champions league, which is the main financial golden egg we consistently chase.

i.e. put £7m debt into context. we sold mcgeady for £11m.

7m doesn't sound like an issue for a club the size of celtic tbph

assuming taxes are up to date

People giving it "we need Rangers" shite really need to take a look at the league tables from before they started doping their team. The SPL was *more* competitive. Scotland got to major competitions. This whole two team league shite is a direct result of fiscal irresponsibility. Fuck a rivalry.

and the idea that we need rangers as competition: the spl was actually a competition, that more than two teams had a chance to win, before rangers were bought by the financial doper david murray.

i'll bow to superior knowledge

itt, like, not as policy

the worst thing that can happen is attendances go down somewhat, especially considering we wouldnt have two guaranteed capacity games a season when we host rangers in the league. this would be more than offset by qualifying for the champions league. altho that is easier said than done. or on the other hand, by selling players more often. we have a team with an average age of 23 most games, we could sell a few of them, who were mainly frees or cheap acquisitions, for several million each, and buy reinforcements who cost similar to what they originally did, and continue in that vein, being a selling club. wouldn't be the end of the world.

fans never like being a selling club

especially a big club who is used to winning things

im of the opinion that any scottish team doing much in the champs league is a thing of the past regardless tbh.

celtic already are a selling club to an extent. if a £10million offer came for any player lawell would drive them to the airport himself.

celtic have only one the scottish cup in the last 3 years, scottish cup and league cup in the last 4? iirc.

and 3 in a row before that. havent they won more titles since 2000 than rangers or have rangers 3 in a row overtaken? id call that successful. Rangers and Celtic have been very successful since their inceptions with the exception of the odd years of dominance by 1 side i.e. both teams 9 in a row years.

People who know what they're talking about OTM.

pfunkboy, "are you on crack" is a popular internet meme for when someone is talking pish. It's not really a personal insult tbh, just an indicator that you're way off the money with most of your speculation. Which everyone has qualified with explanation when telling you that. It's not exactly ad hominem name-calling.

plus those 3 or 4 years you talk about, most celtic fans have been fans for longer than that unless they're about 6 year old.
xp

3 or 4 years, and i can remember the nine. so the majority of the time ive been a celtic supporter we've had no reason to be used to winning things. and that's been because we've been cheated, as every scottish club has been, by rangers. oh and also, if you're a taxpayer, you're also paying for rangers' successes, since a large amount of their debt got moved to murray international holdings, which is currently being propped up by the taxpayer.

fans never like being a selling club

Celtic, like every other Scottish club other than those who are stealing taxpayer's money, is already a selling club. Our board have stated that it is our policy to be a selling club - to identify and sign or develop talented young players with a sell-on value. That is why we only have a handful of players over 25 on good contracts.

presumably attendances would only go down in the short to medium term but in the long term as the redistributing cash was spent and the league slowly got more competitive they'd hopefully climb back a bit

That's what I think - I could be wrong but I'm willing to find out.

People talk like the situation of the last 25 years is worth preserving and I don't understand it - a slow steady decline for everyone, same top two every year and occasional big European nights for the big two is really what people want to protect?

First twenty years of the Scottish Premier League - "Old Firm" both in top two only four times. Since then it's been every year but one.

1975–76	Rangers		Celtic
1976–77	Celtic		Rangers
1977–78	Rangers		Aberdeen
1978–79	Celtic		Rangers
1979–80	Aberdeen	Celtic
1980–81	Celtic		Aberdeen
1981–82	Celtic		Aberdeen
1982–83	Dundee United	Celtic
1983–84	Aberdeen	Celtic
1984–85	Aberdeen	Celtic
1985–86	Celtic		Heart of Midlothian
1986–87	Rangers		Celtic
1987–88	Celtic		Heart of Midlothian
1988–89	Rangers		Aberdeen
1989–90	Rangers		Aberdeen
1990–91	Rangers		Aberdeen
1991–92	Rangers		Heart of Midlothian
1992–93	Rangers		Aberdeen
1993–94	Rangers		Aberdeen
1994–95	Rangers		Motherwell

OTM xp. Almost anything is better than that.

It will hurt Celtic btw, but that hurt will be manifest in not being able to afford big wages and hence attracting a lower quality of player, which is exactly what's happening now, so imo there's not much to lose here.

There will still be some form of tv rights as people will still want to watch Celtic away games at the very least.

I've decided, as I said before, that I like the idea of Rangers doing some reparations by coming up through the leagues and generating some sort of tv income as well as taking some sort of fanbase with them - they won't go untelevised.

I want Rangers balkanised personally, time for shooting for the moon imo.

xxp

Yes, we'll downsize to live within our means. The English league will be able to cherry pick player even more easily than they do now. The clubs will have a responsibility to develop and display talent and make the league worth watching. It doesn't need to be compared with England, or even with the current SPL, but there's no reason it can't still thrive as many other leagues in small countries throughout Europe do. With or without Rangers.

Much as I'd laugh at their demise, a Pre-Pack Rangers NewCo Phoenix club working through the leagues could be a shot in the arm for our smaller clubs and would be a welcome addition to the SPL if they were paying what they could afford just as everyone else is (except Hearts - wages still at >120% turnover I think) and if they maintained their fan base they'd once again be a strong force.

i just cant see spl clubs outwith Celtic not voting to allow a nu rangers back in.

Pre-Pack Rangers NewCo Phoenix club working through the leagues

would be fair enough as long as they dont buy out another clubs registration like the scum at Airdrie did. But i dont think Rangers 2012 FC would need to worry about not getting voted back in the SFL like Airdrie feared (hence buying the bankies)

There will still be some form of tv rights as people will still want to watch Celtic away games at the very least.

I've decided, as I said before, that I like the idea of Rangers doing some reparations by coming up through the leagues and generating some sort of tv income as well as taking some sort of fanbase with them - they won't go untelevised.

I'd rather operate within constraints and win or lose fairly with a chance of having a tilt at Europe than try and compete on the current playing field.

btw, existence of Rangers + ill gotten gains hasn't stopped some unlikely teams qualifying for Europe. More of that sort of thing on a regular basis.

You are Hearts. You cannot pay your players. Rangers owe you almost a million pounds. Rangers go "lol nae luck" then go "btw can we get back in the league and fuck you over some more?"
How do you vote?

They also owe money to several other SPL clubs (not us - apparently we were petty and out of order to demand ticket money up from for our last derby game, well played Peter Lawell on that one).

xxp

They def owe money to Caley Thistle.

they dont own Accies anything apparently but no idea if they paid up in full or an agreement was made. Not that we will have a vote.

If they didn't pay in full, you'll have to join a big queue.

All I know is the club secretary says we are not owed any money. No details of how it was resolved.

What's the likely endgame here? I've always been wrong before when I've said liquidation is likely (e.g. Portsmouth) because there's been enough money sloshing about via parachute payments etc. to allow a 'reasonable' settlement for creditors (20p in the pound at Portsmouth I think).

I don't know what Rangers' total debts might turn out to be, but there isn't money for anything close to that clearly. But otoh, where's the benefit in shutting them down, even a limping Rangers can still generate some money, could they just limp along as a shell for years, operating with say Kilmarnock-level personnel, and maybe doing well enough to avoid relegation?

(Leeds was insanely low iirc - 2p in the pound, something like that)

20p in the pound type settlement relies on the HMRC debt being less than 25% of the total. They voted against Portsmouth's settlement but didn't own enough of the debt. Who owes what to whom at Rangers is still a bit clouded.

funny that

There's some speculation that bigger fish than Rangers have been misusing EBTs and the taxman want to set an example/precedent and is not prepared to let Rangers off the hook in any way. In that case liquidation and a phoenix club would seem like the only way forward beyond simply ceasing to exist.

wonder if why has fixed it so 76% of the debt is owed to him or rangers (is that possible?)

*whyte

I take it 'simply ceasing to exist' isn't a runner? There's not much point to a Rangers that don't win all the time, I've always thought. They're not really an underdog type of club.

but everyone hates them* and they dont care!

*(less than 50% of the country?)

Daniel Cousin's future with Rangers remains unclear following the club's plunge into administration.

The Gabon striker arrived in Scotland this week intent on rejoining the club he played for nearly four years ago.

But the Scottish Premier League imposed a transfer embargo after also deducting Rangers 10 points.

And SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster says he will discuss Cousin's situation with the club as the 35-year-old striker has not yet been registered.
Continue reading the main story

“We intend to discuss that application with the administrators of Rangers Football Club this week”

Neil Doncaster SPL chief executive

"We can confirm that an application has been received for the registration of Daniel Cousin," he told BBC Scotland.

"The player has not yet been registered with the SPL.

"We intend to discuss that application with the administrators of Rangers Football Club this week."

Rangers announced on Monday that a deal had been done for Cousin, subject to international clearance.

However, although that has now been received, the club has since gone into administration, carrying automatic restrictions on registering players with the SPL.

There appears to be uncertainty about whether Cousin has actually signed for the club, with sources close to the striker telling BBC Scotland that he would not be joining Rangers.

Administrator Duff and Phelps is likely to impose staff cuts, in any case, but the SPL appears to be continuing under the impression that Rangers are intent on signing the player who left for Hull City in August 2008.

Rangers manager Ally McCoist had been hoping to sign Cousin to replace top scorer Nikica Jelavic, who moved to Everton on the final day of the January transfer window.

Cousin, who joined Rangers from Lens in 2007, is a free agent after spending last season in his homeland with Sapins after a spell with Larissa in Greece but impressed for his country during the Africa Cup of Nations.

they said they have signed him but not registered? is that just a technicality and the SPL have to allow it or is he not actually signed and now the rules mean a club in administration can't sign anyone?
Could he be signed and just dumped by the administrators?

Newspaper formerly known as the Daily Ranger going in heavy

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/517357147.jpg?Expires=1329266205&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=G0cTUxQ6hBbDdeYmhRISjI4kM3fUG9MhRxRSO-ZJbNlFVTQH6xDA2v72WV2L-sHA4rE6bzSCSP2RhDKio~kpktOOs03qogvbgcc8htfHlptjJpbKKTTKn~RNwS8G2q8q7wOBz6Rq3mkRvB~D~cqfE-pAS~LEgaO5x0XNuCMHonI_

not sure that will work, if not go to http://twitpic.com/8k0rbv/full

viewfree!

http://rangerstv.tv/viewfree.php?it=10189&c=archive&r=236678734985

his eyes OMG BLINK MAN! BLINK!

boot out tax dodger whyte but not boot out tax dodging rangers?
well the record couldn't survive with rangers (or celtic) fans i suppose.

third division or out completely

I do not know a single Celtic fan who regularly buys the Record. iirc I've bought it once in the last year - when they broke the season ticket story the other week. If they're relying on Celtic fans they're already done.

SPL need to register a player in order for them to play in Scotland (you may remember Jim Farry failing to do the necessary for Jorge Cadete). If that hasn't been done, Cousin's transfer is not complete. afaik, this can still go ahead as the process was underway before the transfer embargo was placed on them. Whether the SPL grant his registration to a club in administration is another matter.

onimo i know loads

Can't see why the administrator would want the registration to go ahead to pay a 35-year-old £7.5k a week when he's struggling to guarantee he can pay the police to get the game on.

ahh ok, i thought that but wasn't sure. Thanks Ailsa.

Craig Whyte was apparently spotted in the exec lounge at the airport tonight. I wonder if he'll come back from wherever he's headed...

on that note,this is just perfect ahahaha

https://p.twimg.com/AlpyV0jCIAEKsky.jpg

hahahahaha

Was just coming to post that!

jesus fuck thats not even shopped is it

Nope, the one I was about to post is actually different!

alltime great photo

someone mustve just seen him walking towards it and couldn't believe their luck.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/58506000/jpg/_58506655_rangerseight464.jpg
is that an ICF logo there?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17035992

the inter city firm just aint what it used to be if so

http://global-4-lvs-turing.opera-mini.net/hz28-10/32637/0/-1/i40.tinypic.com/2ueiemv.jpg

gold

I wish I had more hours in each day and more days in the week to devote to laughing at the stupid skint fuckers and the deluded circus surrounding them. Annoyingly my life has picked a crap old week to provide me with other stuff.

Keep up the good work, chaps, will check in where I can.

Before I nick off, another post from another interesting blog:

http://www.scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/what-will-the-administrators-of-rangers-football-club-plc-do/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/14/rangers-administration-scottish-football

Another diamond amidst the dung.

Hearing various today such as:

- Cousin deal is off
- Bartley sent back to Arsenal
- any player out of contract this season is out
- Lafferty is out - he has 98 appearances and 100 triggers a payment to Burnley

disclaimer: I'm the kind of idiot that believes fake Sky Sports tweets about Suarez leaving Liverpool

Rangers fan protest with "WE WANT ANSWERS MR WHYTE" inflatable banner, except the generator failed.

https://p.twimg.com/Alr9AYsCQAAMBVi.jpg

disclaimer: I'm the kind of idiot that believes fake Sky Sports tweets about Suarez leaving Liverpool

I let my brother believe that one for a bit last night :)

Four hour train journey ahead later today, shall do some seriously reading if 3G works in the arse end of nowhere up a hill.

I might even learn to use adjectives correctly.

John Hartson mincing his words today in his Sun column

A BLOKE lives in a flat above a shop but has taken the finance out on a new Porsche.
The geezer thinks that everyone believes he's got money because of the flash motor he drives.
What he doesn't realise is that he'd be much better off living in a semi-detached and having the keys to a Corsa.
That's Rangers.
A club with an ego they simply cannot sustain. A shambles. An embarrassment. A complete and utter mess.

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Derek Johnstone.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/rangers-in-turmoil-for-the-first-time-i-am-embarrassed-to-be-a-rangers-man-says-derek-johnstone.16750461

Not ashamed or embarrassed when he was part of a team who had to be presented with a trophy behind closed doors that they weren't allowed to defend. Not when he was part of a team with a sectarian employment policy. Not when the fans were rioting in Manchester or when they were banned from European away games for sectarian singing.

Well said, big man! (xp)

Fuck you, big man!

Anyone see that Rangers fan who was interviewed on the BBC news and was so overcome with emotion he couldn't finish his sentence? That has got to be on YouTube, what a fucking diddy, priceless

Classic exchange on Radio 5 this morning.

Nicky Campbell: "is it fair to say that this is, in fact, the blackest day in Rangers' history?"

Rangers Dude Whose Name I Didn't Catch: "to be honest Nicky, you comparing this to 66 people losing their lives is a travesty and I think you should apologise."

NC: "ummmm... Sorry."

Yes, somebody said something similar on the news last night, possibly Channel 4, and I immediately thought, well, there is the Ibrox Disaster

SPL table since 6th November 2011

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/517723611.jpg?Expires=1329312396&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=eUc5kb0W8uc-JQ0bJpBJHBs9IG8~8BhU~5020Mu0MTrAFI2IwqtsZxlSO1r1K31U9D8alxK6l4WgPNKulB4igO4RNNL9Vt0l0lk4fVQ5278Ya6atzOw5sZ2W1cUBe~6v9L9Pl3W4~sZrOS7aGytv1vNcOLDSyuyvj8jTRhjTXpk_

Uh, numbers don't add up there

... forgot the 10 point deduction!

St. Mirren could do with winning some games

St Mirren had a couple of decent results against Rangers - if Rangers fold and games against them are wiped, they'll come off worst.

only if there's still relegation to allow rangers back in

so yeah, you're right...

Season 1985-86: The Scottish Premier Division was won on goal difference. Only 6 points separated the top four. Rangers finished a distant fifth. Aberdeen won both cups. Scotland reached their fourth straight World Cup. Player of the year awards were all won by Hearts and Dundee United players.

Very few games were televised due to a dispute with the TV companies.

Scottish football needs what now?

Oh, and Accies won the first division

but there was no tv money in other countries. There is now, so European success wont happen unless every league goes back to the old days.

still, i hope onimo is right, but its not that simple

anyway rangers will exist in some form, probably still in SPL and nothing will change. except they will be debt free? cheating cunts.

what is going to happen to ibrox

What TV money in what countries are you referring to? Should Scotland be achieving TV income parity with Spain, England, Germany or Denmark? Maybe some acceptance among all clubs about the actual size of our country and its TV market would be a good thing?

A repeat of the '86 season would be TV gold.

what is going to happen to ibrox

Tesco

Even without relegation, they might end up a place or so worse off, which affects their income at the end of the season.

Where are you getting this conviction that Rangers will get back into the SPL from? Hearing some chatter today that Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee United are against, and expect that ICT will be as well (Celtic definitely are). The end game might be complete liquidation, btw, so it might not even be an issue.

There's fuck all TV money here *now*, btw, in relative terms. We're not looking at Motherwell suddenly going on to win the Europa League or anything, we're looking at a model where clubs can regularly qualify for both European tournaments and get some extra revenue which they can use to improve their squads to increase chances of qualifying again, etc etc. And with time they'll get better along the way. Playing in a league where you're not hamstrung by having to try and compete with a bunch of corrupt fraudsters taking money out of my pocket to fuck over my team has GOT to be better.

xposts

And, as I was pointing out to aldo at the weekend, if we can pick up a Paddy McCourt or an Emilio Izaguirre or a Mark Wilson, so can anyone else. These players didn't come with huge expectations and massive pricetags. It's not like there's a complete dearth of talent in the SPL, Dundee Utd in particular just now are unearthing gems that might be tempted to stay longer in a league that isn't completely corrupt.

I know what you're saying. I'm just not sure it will improve things here. Celtic will just win every year rather than celtic and rangers taking turns to win everything. But lets not jump the gun, lets see what happens to Rangers first.

xp

those players will want to head to a better standard of league/one that pays more money. Its already not a level playing field, it will be even less of one if Rangers go.

I agree with huge chunks of this

An Aberdeen fan's view:

The great ‘Scottish football needs Rangers’ lie
The only thing that has tainted this truly wonderful day for me has been the endless steam of pundits and posters all across the media, patronisingly telling us that we’d all suffer without Rangers.

Their main arguments seem to be that

a ) we need their gate money twice a season
b ) no-one will be interested in Scottish Football without them
c ) Our co-efficient will be damaged by not having them in Europe
d ) Our TV deal will suffer

Lets pick these arguments apart one at a time and put this myth to bed once and for all -

a ) Gate Money: Using ourselves as an example, when the scum are in town we normally get 17k going up to 18-19k if we’re playing decent.
Normally we get about 9k going up to 11-12k if we’re playing decent. Now given that if they vanished we’d still be playing someone instead of rangers, we can assume that we would get our average crowd. So right now with their two ‘visits’ a year, their existence seems to provide us with around 16,000 paying customers per season.

That’s less that 1000 punters for each home game of the year, or one decent European night, or our share of a cup semi final. without their cheating, scummy presence, the league would only get more competitive, there would be more cup finals and european places up for grabs, and therefore more european nights in following seasons.

Every team in the league would improve their numbers, and to suggest we couldn’t make up 16k over a season is ridiculous.

b ) Interest in the Scottish game: This one is brilliant. Sorry, but there’s not exactly a scramble of Japanese Tourists and Brazilian TV companies tearing the SPL doors down right now is there, so I fail to see how are global impact could be less significant than it is at present. In fact, you never know, but a competitive set up where a few different teams actually win stuff on a regular basis, might actually cause a little more interest around the world.

Also, I know one particular country where interest in our game is currently at an all time low. A country that used to love scottish football but that has been gradually turned off it by the antics of the bigot brothers. A country that is actually quite important when your measuring levels of Interest in Scottish football. A country that might actually come back to the scottish game if it were tighter, fairer, and more competitive. Yep you’ve guessed it, Scotland. Without rangers, we’d like our game a lot more, and that might be just about all the ‘global interest’ that we need.

c ) The co-efficient. A vastly overblown argument. Aside from the fact that they’ve hardly been doing our standing in Europe any favours at all recently, this is still a non starter. All reasonably sized countries in Europe get the chance for 3 – 4 of their top clubs to represent them in some European competition that they will find challenging and financially beneficial should they progress in it. It never really changes that much, and it never will. Any minor changes to our co-efficient only ever seemed to do the job of gifting both sets of minks extra Champions League spots, so that they can make more money and make the league yet more uncompetitive.

d ) TV money: Why would fewer people want to watch an open, exciting competitive league than the stale predictable, biased drivel we face now? People might argue that the tims would win it every year. But I don’t believe it for a second. “two team” leagues are quite common throughout the world. One team leagues practically non-existent. The tims didn’t win everything the last time the h*ns were pish, we made sure of that. A we would again.

The Lie has been told too often, but it’s still a lie. Lets start getting the truth heard once in a while. It’s very simple -

Scottish Football – Glasgow Rangers = A Better Place

do you think this will make the actual celtic team worse, given that they don't have the cash to compete in Europe anyway and now they should be more comfortable domestically?

oh (xp) I see that the thinking isn't that the league will necessarily be easier for celtic.

i think it will make things much easier for Celtic re winning things, but its got to hurt them eventually quality wise - esp in Europe

but then again that's not a concern of mine I guess. As an Accies fan i'd be gladly rid of Rangers (and sorry guys, but that other team too)

Celtic are worse now than they were ten years ago. We are cutting our cloth as the finances of football get tighter, just as everyone else in Scotland is (or at least should be) doing. We have shown that this strategy can still produce good footballers and attractive football. Whether that can transfer to a modicum of European success remains to be seen - but it's not like we were ever that good even in MON's big spending years, one failed UEFA Cup final and two failed CL Groups.

Not really, no. I think they'll continue to TRY to improve, bear in mind we're only a couple of years into a massive rebuilding strategy. We're not *that* comfortable domestically as it is (we do occasionally do stupid things like losing to teams at the arse end of the league and going out of the cup to lower league sides), and I'd like to hope that the league would get even more competitive as other teams have their eye on the prize of Europe.

those players will want to head to a better standard of league/one that pays more money. Its already not a level playing field, it will be even less of one if Rangers go.

Why do players play here at all, ffs? Let's shut the whole fucking thing down, eh? At least you're getting a shout at second place and CL qualifiers now? That looks more competitive in my book. The race for second already looks a whole lot more exciting than it was yesterday.

xposts

(pfunkboy, REALLY? You'd rather lose the only marketable assets in the league and the vast majority of match-attending punters in your quest for this mystery TV fortune?)

why not? you're happy at losing one.
Losing Celtic would take us another place closer to CL wouldn't it? (lols at the thought of Accies ever getting near CL)

then again i dont really wish administration on anyone. My own club very nearly entered it and would have ceased to exist.
still. im gonna lol at Rangers now they have done.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/15/article-2101475-11BF7F5F000005DC-963_468x414.jpg

l-r pfunk, Wayne

i don't have a long face

why not? You'd be in a system free of financial doping for a start. Rangers have created this monster by defrauding the taxpayer and creating a false impression of the league, denying crucial revenue to other clubs and stunting their growth into the bargain. Celtic have done none of these things, so fuck knows why you want us out too.

SPL Chief Neil Doncaster speaking on 27th January about clubs gaining an unfair advantage by not paying their PAYE. What did he know?

http://soundcloud.com/celticresearch/neil-doncaster-competitive/s-vbVL6

ok
even leaving out all the sectarian baggage that comes with certain section of rangers & celtic.

The demise of the other most dominant team would lead to a closer league. Celtic can get 60,000 punters at each home game when successful, right? That's a huge advantage over all the other clubs. With that gone you have a bunch of clubs of a similar size competing for the SPL title, therefore a more competitive league with excitement.

but like i said, i wouldn't actually wish administration or liquidation on any club, not even Motherwell or Airdrie.

NewCo Crest

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/5151/cheatsu.jpg

Celtic haven't regularly had 60,000 at home games for about five years. Average gate last season was around 45,000, I think.

Still about 30-35,000 more than the other SPL teams.

Yup. If Celtic end up, as many argue, losing punters because we don't have a Rangers to hate, and there aren't any Rangers buses leaving Dundee, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Falkirk, Greenock, etc. then maybe that gap will reduce.

That said, I don't think Celtic need apologise for having the most supporters.

yeah a huge advantage.
xp

no, they shouldn't. but if you argue you want a more competitive league, then removing the old firm gives you that is all im saying.

if you argue you want a more competitive league, then removing the old firm gives you that

I agree. But the reason for removing Rangers is that they are cheating and stealing and falsely inflating the quality of their team and that is something we should try to live without.

The reason for removing Celtic is that they're big and they might win. Not quite the same thing eh?

oh totally!

also i just cant see that many rangers fans just going to support other teams. A lot would just give up. Could you support another team if yours went bust?
Plus i dont fancy a bunch of morons with union jacks invading other clubs (yes i know some have them but thankfully Accies somehow steer clear of being a mini rangers/celtic)
of course a generation of kids growing up without rangers might then support their local clubs and without bring sectarian shit with them. But thats just a pipedream and a long time away even if it did happen.

pfunkboy, firstly stop chucking the sectarian strawman into a debate about financial doping and secondly, can you please give me just one legitimate reason why Celtic shouldn't be playing in the top tier of their own domestic league right now?

i didn't say there was. I just said that if there was to be a more competitive league you would need to remove the other dominant force. I didn't say they deserved to be kicked out for 'financial doping' or whatever.
Plus its a debate about scottish football right? not just 'financial doping'.
Otherwise we shouldn't be debating how rangers disappearing will affect scottish football in this thread.

and whether you like it or not, sectarianism exists in scottish football

Could you support another team if yours went bust?

Yes. 100%. I love football. I love taking my children to football. I may never have the same affection for that club as I did for Celtic but I would still pay to watch.

I believe someone on this thread already supports another team after their team "went bust".

but i totally understand not wanting to discuss sectarianism here so lets leave that out?
xp

would you go support morton then?
fair play to you
would that certain person go support another team? (im asking that person not anyone else)

Sectarianism is not exclusive to Celtic or Rangers. Or indeed to football.

Anyway, I thought we were on the "Rangers in adminstration" thread here and discussing the ramifications thereof and not any old flight of fancy. My bad.

xpost, yeah, guilty of supporting more than one time in my lifetime. And I'd probably still go and watch football without Celtic. Probably Clyde.

We've already got a generic Scottish football thread, btw.

i still think most Rangers fans would just end up supporting Chelsea or someone , watching it all on TV.

maybe we will get to find out.
I suppose the one thing that could keep rangers fans interested might be if someone like Hearts or Motherwell (Not Aberdeen - they hate them too much) could challenge Celtic for the title and then they could support them if they were beating Celtic. A kind of proxy rivalry.

from earlier this season, when Hearts were being hammered over unpaid wages:

Heart of Midlothian Football Club have, tonight, been charged by the Scottish Premier League under article A3.1 of the SPL’s rules, which states …

A3.1 In all matters and transactions relating to the League and Company each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the Company with the utmost good faith.

When your £9m of unpaid tax exceeds the turnover of more than half of your member clubs I think you might be acting in bad faith. I'm sure the SPL will be right on this, given Doncaster's statement in January.

Plus its a debate about scottish football right? not just 'financial doping'.
Otherwise we shouldn't be debating how rangers disappearing will affect scottish football in this thread.

The imminent disappearance of Rangers is as a result of financial doping, btw, I'm not sure how to avoid that in this thread? We're all debating the ramifications of Rangers going as that's an imminent possibility. Hypothesising about things that *aren't* going to happen seems unnecessarily complicated iyam.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'd better do some work to pay some taxes to keep the country afloat.

you're a true patriot ;)

I know a fair number of Rangers supporters and of them, the majority would have no trouble in supporting their "second" team if Rangers go fut - my sis being a case in point. Of course, it may be that these people are a tiny, unrepresentative minority (and they might be - the majority of them are from the West Highlands/Western Isles) but, y'know, the entire Rangers supporters diaspora won't fart off into SkySportsaholicism.

would you go support morton then?

Newer!!!!!!!! St. Mirren till I die. There's always Linfield for a lot of Rangers fans.

Ferry service between Larne and Stranraer might have to prepare for tough times ahead

The imminent disappearance of Rangers is as a result of financial doping, btw

That "if" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

Well yes. The point its making is that financial doping (cf Man City) is distinct from financial mismanagement and conflating the two results in underlying the whole discussion with the implication that Celtic would have won more trophies but for the financial management of Rangers. Which to my mind isnt really in point.

That "if" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

Not quite as much work as you're doing to draw distinctions between your club and Rangers. As much as it may upset you, many Scottish football fans would be just as happy for this to happen to either (or both) of the old firm clubs. Just as you are taking glee in Rangers' fate.

Before another few paragraphs are typed out, I don't need it explained to me that Celtic aren't the ones guilty of 'doping' - there just seems to be a lack of awareness that Celtic aren't exactly held in much higher regard.

I'll bet they aren't

this is fuck all to do with what regard cunts hold clubs in.i hold most scottish clubs in pretty low esteem,who gives a fuck?it's to do with the reality that rangers are a toxic club,that make a mockery of football in this country being a sport by their tax dodging and overspending.

and if they get out of this mess without paying most of what they owe,and just start a newco and get immediately put back in the spl then fuck scottish football.

This is true and tbh I have more respect for the rest of Scottish league if they teams weren't so uniformly SHITE, get it together you useless twunts! (xp)

hey tom im sure if Celtic agreed to share all the money from turnstiles/season tickets etc with everyone in Scotland and everybody had the same budgets each season then they could (note to everybody , im not suggesting they do so no need to rant "why should celtic....")

im sure if Celtic agreed to share all the money from turnstiles/season tickets etc with everyone in Scotland and everybody had the same budgets each season then they could

pfunk sometime you post the most ridiculous things

please note: I have made no personal reference to any substances you may or may not be smoking in abundance in dens

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/scottish-premier/dunfermline/297706-dunfermline-do-not-expect-payment-from-rangers/

you've totally fucked us but we're sorry you're having a hard time.

Tax evasion is just bad management and we should consider football communism. Blimey.

onimo you really shouldnt take clearly jokey comments so seriously. but choose what you want to see on you go

and you too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yorkston
"Yorkston, a lifelong fan of the club and keen wharler"

What is a wharler?

anyway im sure you would much respond to what calumerio and CraigG posted rather than a jokey comment so i wont interrupt you

you forgot your smiley face again pfunk - you need that separate the jokey ridiculous comments from the serious ridiculous comments

Dude, you wholeheartedly believe Brian Dempsey orchestrated the Record's coverage of Celtic's near collapse. We're through the looking glass here.

why dont you respond to those guys rather than attacking me?

Dunno what I can respond to when someone thinks spending money you haven't got on players you can't afford and refusing to pay it back while not paying tax *isn't* financial doping.

I'm also fully aware Celtic aren't held in high regard. Many opposition fans are most vocal about that.

I'm happy to substitute "financial doping" for "financial mismanagement leading to an unfair competitive advantage" if that makes anyone feel better about this shite.

(don't want this to get missed as I'm truly curious)

Yorkston, a lifelong fan of the club and keen wharler

???

Dude, you wholeheartedly believe Brian Dempsey orchestrated the Record's coverage of Celtic's near collapse. We're through the looking glass here.

and you're paranoid that referees continually give advantages to rangers and to anyone that celtic plays. not to mention the paranoia with the spl/sfa/stv/bbc/daily record etc

and fuck knows what a Wharler is. wikipedia just brings up that same quote

I know that. I did attempt to find out for myself before asking.

is it to do with fishing maybe?

it just sounds like a fishermans term. or a sailing term

all search results are for it as a surname

this is fucking gold btw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yorkston

a lifelong fan of the club and keen wharler,
...
At 6 foot 7 inches tall. Yorkston is the tallest club chairman in British football.
...
Keen to utilise his height to full effect he auditioned for and got down to the last two for the role of "The Green Cross Code Man" eventually losing out to Dave Prowse of Darth Vader fame
...
His biggest success as a thespian was in the role of "Herman Munster" in the Lochgelly Theatre Company's pantomime hit "Munster Family Christmas" in 1982
...
Bobby Davro suggested Yorkston leave his show business aspirations behind and become a civil servant
...
Yorkston is honorary chairman of "The Friends of Stan" an "On The Buses" appreciation society

this is fuck all to do with what regard cunts hold clubs in.i hold most scottish clubs in pretty low esteem,who gives a fuck?it's to do with the reality that rangers are a toxic club,that make a mockery of football in this country being a sport by their tax dodging and overspending.

My apologies boss. I know the thread is solely for a factual report on the financial state of Rangers FC (no speculation, no opinions, no comments on the state of Scottish football). And saying "Cunt" of course. 90% of this 'topic' is about what regard "cunts" hold teams in, or we wouldn't be having a conversation. It'd pass like a fart in the wind like every other club that enters administration, and comes out the other side a little poorer, and with a few points off their tally. Cunts cunts cunts.

^this cunt gets it :)

lol onimo that is gold

xps

I lost a good gif somewhere while I was typing, cunts. I have to re-read about 300 shite tweets from gloating Tim cunts now.

gotcha
http://i39.tinypic.com/11w6i5f.gif

^this cunt gets it :)

haha

I see the sports minister has been touch with Rangers and that the "Scottish government stands ready to offer assistance to anyone affected" - I don't recall that happening when half a dozen other Scottish clubs went tits up.

sturgeon's constituency is Govan innit?

celtic and rangers do generate a lot of money and vat (haha) for the economy so if one goes tits up no doubt governments will be more concerned than for gretna dundee livingston scummerwell. Wouldn't matter which party was in charge at Holyrood tbh

but when you think of the fight it took (and a by-election) to get even Councillors nevermind mps/msps interested in the fate of Accies, it is pretty galling.

Michael Kelly has just been on Radio 5 saying Celtic need Rangers and he has assurances from the Celtic board they will not only allow Strangers back in as the new club but will petition the SFA to let them straight back into Europe.

wtf

My apologies boss. I know the thread is solely for a factual report on the financial state of Rangers FC (no speculation, no opinions, no comments on the state of Scottish football). And saying "Cunt" of course. 90% of this 'topic' is about what regard "cunts" hold teams in, or we wouldn't be having a conversation. It'd pass like a fart in the wind like every other club that enters administration, and comes out the other side a little poorer, and with a few points off their tally. Cunts cunts cunts.

― CraigG

fucking whatabouttery at every juncture of discussion about anything to do with rangers. even when celtic can't conceivably be compared by any stretch of the imagination to rangers in this case. pathetic and boring.

i met him during the Hamilton by-election btw. it was him who told me that we were ahead of the lib-dems in the poll while i was canvassing.
He's still a tit

xp

xxxp
No feckin' way. Nu-Rangers should duke it out in SFL3 just like Gretna had to, no special favours.

and if celtic get brought up we then hear "whatabouttery" rangers too, jim.

its always been the way

some form of Gretna is back in the south of scotland league rather than sfl3, no?

this is the most domestically succesful, highest spending, highest profile, current champions of a league going into administration. this makes it bigger news than motherwell or dundee for obvious reasons. above and beyond that rangers' egregious tax dodging sort of makes this more of a story. even if i didn't care about football i would be getting wound up about this, another large company getting away with ripping us all off during the worst financial crisis of my lifetime.

Michael Kelly has just been on Radio 5 saying Celtic need Rangers and he has assurances from the Celtic board they will not only allow Strangers back in as the new club but will petition the SFA to let them straight back into Europe.

― Aunt Acid and the Gaviscons (aldo)

fucking michael kelly. what a tadger.

Gretna 2008 are in the East of Scotland League. If Nu-Rangers did have to start on the bottom rung, I'm not sure where they'd go, South of Scotland League? Not that the powers that be will allow that to happen as Michael Kelly shows.

Shouldn't a government be sending out a strong message that defrauding their country of several million quid by breaking the law won't be tolerated?

Defaulting Clubs
C9.1 If any Club defaults in making payment of any sum or sums due
to the Company and/or to another Club the Board shall be
entitled to apply any sums which, under these Rules, would
otherwise be payable to the defaulting Club by the Company in
discharge of any debt due by such Club in default to the
Company and/or such other Club in such manner as the Board
shall determine.

does this mean Dunfermline et al get their money via the SPL withholding money from Rangers?

fucking michael kelly. what a tadger.

also lol @ five live getting a Kelly to talk about football finance

onimo, that would be my interpretation of it, yes.

if I can jump back a wee bit to accusations of paranoia, I do try to back up my arguments, it's not just baseless ranting, and I'm certainly not unilaterally blinkered, I'm sure I've hardly denied those decisions from which we have benefited. I'm also far from alone in my view of the leanings of the tabloid press.

I believe I've also been quite complimentary toward the twitter output of Rangers' Official Media Partner, btw, to give another example to counteract your flailing whataboutery.

well once you respond to calum and craig we can all be happy :)

I already dismissed equating tax evasion with financial mismanagement, which is where that entire argument falls down. What was the other thing? That some people don't like Celtic? Wow, big news for discussion. Germane to the matter in hand too.

Happy now? Because I'm just about done with this. I was hoping for some useful discussion and insight, but we seem to just be going round in circles pointing out holes in badly-researched/plucked-from-thin-air arguments.

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2012/02/15/exclusive-rangers-mystery-deepens-over-whyte-links-to-former-jailbird-associate-150201/

and in the Daily Record
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/business-news/2012/02/15/rangers-in-crisis-jailed-embezzler-blows-lid-on-the-deals-he-used-to-help-craig-whyte-beat-the-taxman-86908-23749209/

Kevin Sykes, who served an eight-year jail term for a £3million pension fund fraud, set up companies for Whyte to offload liabilities into.

The companies were used to take on liabilities to the taxman and other creditors before going bust, in deals he refers to as “the old switcheroo”.

Sykes, 51, said he never believed Whyte would pay HMRC a penny of the club’s debt should they lose a £49million tax case with Rangers, which could rise to £75million with penalties.

He said: “Let me tell you this, my money is on that not being paid.

“Hypothetically, there would probably be an old switcheroo and an insolvency.

“I guarantee that there are already some insolvency practitioners lined up, and a big firm of lawyers too.

“Somebody might say the intention was always to leave the revenue behind and that was the attraction.

“You could dump £49million of debt, hive the business up and have a new clean start and everybody is happy.

“You could have the assets out under value and there might be development opportunities around the site.

how did this guy get to buy Rangers? Murray obviously just didn't care who he sold to. Fuck knows what the SFA and SPL did, fit and proper? hah thats a laugh.

Fit and proper criteria "still being investigated" according to the SFA, might be a wee touch too late.

I think he got to buy Rangers because Lloyds were desperate to offload a £50m tax liability and reclaim £18m debt and neither they nor David Murray wanted the attention associated with taking Rangers to the wall.

dunno if this has been asked in the considerable amount of posts... but would celtic fans feel like, empty inside, without rangers?

nice warm glow inside imo

i actually feel a bit sorry for the genuine, non-bigoted , rangers fans. They have been well and truly shafted here. And I just can't believe it was allowed to happen. my cousins husbands who support rangers always said whyte was dodgy. Why on earth didn't the sfa/spl investigate the guy. He had a conviction for fraud ffs.

http://celtic-hub.com/main/

Polls

Do you want Rangers to die?

Yes (92%, 2,446 Votes)
No (8%, 305 Votes)

Total Voters: 2,658

yeah i mean i obv lolled as well, have no love for the gers.

i just mean, in the sense of knowing celtic will now win the league for all eternity basically unchallenged. or is that inaccurate? it must be a bit scary/depressing.

i guess rangers will come back in some form in a few years...

ronan they will be back in SPL in july or whenever the season starts this year in some form im sure of it.

im sure in a few years time, if rangers did cease to exist, some celtic fans will then think actually this isnt so good now. Obv not all though.

i guess it's what form it is though? i mean they could be severely depleted by this right? or not challenging celtic anymore?

We didn't win it all through the 80s when Rangers were mostly shite, before Murray starting punting heavily on Being A Force In Europe. The entire football landscape is completely unrecognisable to that, of course, but I still think there's potential for Hearts, Aberdeen or Dundee United to have something of a revival. Only having to beat one "big" team to win a cup would make a huge difference to how the lesser trophies are divvied up.

The other eventuality of no Rangers, of course, could be pfunk getting his wish and Celtic making a better case for moving to England.

xxp

debt free and possibly with all their top players? i honestly don't know. When Airdrie did it i think they lost everyone but that was no loss.
I just dont know what will happen. I do get the feeling he has this scenario in his plans to cheat the creditors. Whether its to just get rangers starting from scratch or to sell the club on at a big profit later i dont know. If rangers are wound up someone else might buy the club if they put in a better offer than his.

has had this scenario

I can't wait. Fuck them. I'm optimistically hoping for a brave new dawn where smaller clubs have more incentive in the league (European qualification) and the rewards that that brings.

Was anyone wringing their hands about fitness and propriety when Vlad appeared?

i just cant see anything other than being wound up and starting again tbh.

i think there was some, yeah, ailsa. But not that much.

Hearts, Aberdeen or Dundee United to have something of a revival

;_;

<realist>

debt free and possibly with all their
top players? i honestly don't know

This will not happen.

Best case for them I think is to somehow write-off or write-down most of the debt, cut costs (meaning some players and more non-playing staff losing jobs) and emerge from administration weaker but able to come back as they'd still have a huge support compared to everyone else in the league. It might even galvanise the support - I'm hearing Saturday will be a sell-out.

I'm optimistically hoping for a brave new dawn where smaller clubs have more incentive in the league (European qualification) and the rewards that that brings.

they cant do it by buying players so its going to have to take a good youth system and just try and sell players to english clubs to finance it all. Propblem is if you get good players, they get sold, youre back to scratch again. Unless you have a huge support like celtic and rangers do.

but fingers crossed that is what happens

Sorry aldo, I still think you'll avoid the drop but you're a long way from your stupid-haired flamboyance hitting the heady heights of third place again.

Xxxp
Not at all surprising, Darlington tripled their gate when they were facing winding up.

Problem is if you get good players, they get sold, youre back to scratch again

That's how all but the best clubs in Europe operate. There's always a bigger fish. The real problem is when you *don't* get good players to sell on.

do you reckon lack of a competitive old firm derby would deter players from going to celtic? again... just one of the many theories spinning through the "casual discussion at work" vortex

they cant do it by buying players so
its going to have to take a good
youth system and just try and sell
players to english clubs to finance it
all. Propblem is if you get good
players, they get sold, youre back to
scratch again.

Um, I know? We've been over this since time immemorial. Don't be excluding Celtic from this model, it's how we operate too.

there's only so many good players in scotland. The money wont be there to go to other countries to sign players like they do now (unless you're celtic)

If only All leagues had to start from scratch really. Maybe that will happen one day. Madrid and Barcelona must be in all kinds of shit if the banks ever call in the debt.

god knows how many english clubs will go under too. They must be next

do you reckon lack of a competitive old firm derby would deter players from going to celtic?

I think for many supporters those games would be a big loss, though I can't say I enjoy them.

Playing in some form of European competition every season (with shop-window/stepping-stone to England opportunities) is a much bigger carrot than playing against Rangers.

there's only so many good players in scotland

There are as many good players in Scotland as there would be with no Rangers.

I can't work out how *any* of what you're saying is mitigated by Rangers existing. This is just a general gripe about the state of Scottish football. A state it wasn't in before people started trying to spend big to compete with two teams with more spending power who were spending too much to attempt to compete in arenas beyond their abilities.

If only All leagues had to start from scratch really. Maybe that will happen one day. Madrid and Barcelona must be in all kinds of shit if the banks ever call in the debt.

― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper)

that's a few references to debt that seem to show you don't understand it at all. madrid and barcelona have a turnover that would make your eyes bleed, like any other business they operate with a debt, a debt that it is eminently easy for them to service, and always will be, since they rake in so much cash.

a debt that it is eminently easy for them to service

Didn't Real have a huge chunk, like hundreds of millions wiped out by the city council or the state? Some of Real's property bought by them for stupid prices or something?

there's only so many good players in scotland

There are as many good players in Scotland as there would be with no Rangers.

I can't work out how *any* of what you're saying is mitigated by Rangers existing. This is just a general gripe about the state of Scottish football. A state it wasn't in before people started trying to spend big to compete with two teams with more spending power who were spending too much to attempt to compete in arenas beyond their abilities.

I never said this had anything to do with Rangers, I'm just saying that most clubs do not run a purely home grown youth system for the first team. If every club does this as a result of change, there is only so many good players here. There's not enough to go round all clubs. And i think the money wont be there to pay for top class scouting in other countries or to pay wages of these players.

Where did i say scotland needs rangers for that?

aye maybe, but i mean like now, they're both sitting pretty, though with a lot of debt.

The city had previously rezoned the training grounds for development, a move which in turn increased their value, and then bought the site. The EU-commission started an investigation into whether the city overpaid for the property, to be considered a form of state subsidy.

The sale of the training ground for office buildings cleared Real Madrid's debts of €270m and enabled the club to embark upon an unprecedented spending spree

there is only so many good players here. There's not enough to go round all clubs

More children are born every day. Developing talent is a rolling strategy. You don't turn round one day and go "oh shit we've run out!"

Where did i say scotland needs rangers for that?

Ok, you didn't. You just posted it slap bang in the middle of a discussion about the future of Scottish football without Rangers in a thread about Rangers going into administration. No idea why.

I can't work out how *any* of what you're saying is mitigated by Rangers existing.

or try reading what i say rather than trying to manoeuvre it into what you want me to say so you can have a go.

in other words onimo you read what you wanted to read

where have i heard that one before, eh?

Is this like a Turing test of something idk.

I'm addressing what you say and quoting it. That isn't reading what I want. Trust me, I am not reading what I want - I want to read things that make sense in the context I'm reading them.

my head hurts

yeah this starts to smart after a while
http://www.dragonflightstudio.com/banghead.gif

You got it

Reporting Scotland just showing how Rangers should have a £30m surplus since Whyte's takeover, even discounting the investment he claimed he would make at the start.

Average income plus Ticketus deal plus Jelavic fee plus unpaid taxes minus the running costs that Whyte himself stated = £30m.
If he didn't include paying tax in those costs (as he wasn't paying it) it still leaves £21m that should be in the bank.

So where's the money and why administration and why now?

switzerland? cayman islands?

that amateur club in england hes involved with? Well they always wanted to join the english (non) league didn't they? ;)

maybe it's hidden away so he can use it when nu-rangers are formed to buy players? or he wants to suddenly emigrate to rio?

I think the right answer (which Whyte denies) is that the Ticketus money paid for the takeover. This money was borrowed by Whyte against advanced ticket sales of a club he didn't not own or represent in any capacity whatsoever as it was paid to him before he owned Rangers.

That would leave £6m cash with a £9m tax bill = skinto

-not

This thread is insane. It's just like a scattergun blast of ill-conceived, random and contradictory thoughts and retreads of things that have been explained over and over again. Remind me again why we needed a new thread for this? Any salient points with regard to the future of Rangers and a Rangers-free world are just lost in among a bunch of white noise and stupid blustering non sequiters.

fwiw, there is an excellent wee thread on Kerrydale Street where the ins and outs are being discussed away from the gloating and lolz elsewhere on the board if anyone wants to read on-topic stuff about this.

https://www.kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8648238/

Onimo, i think you're spot on.

If it's anywhere it's in Monaco. And he can't then just go "ta-da!" and produce it again to fund debt-free Rangers 2.0 .

apologies if this was posted already
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17049723

I'm going to re-post this. It is well worth a read for anyone struggling with the basics of administration.

https://www.scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/what-will-the-administrators-of-rangers-football-club-plc-do/

And an update:

https://www.scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/day-2-rangers-in-administration-offence-alreadyadministrators-talking-rubbishwheres-the-money-from/

I think the right answer (which Whyte denies) is that the Ticketus money paid for the takeover. This money was borrowed by Whyte against advanced ticket sales of a club he didn't not own or represent in any capacity whatsoever as it was paid to him before he owned Rangers.

Yeah, I expect it is more likely that he took a short-term loan to finance Wavetower's repayment of the Lloyds debt, then used the Ticketus loan to pay that back.

they cant do it by buying players so its going to have to take a good youth system and just try and sell players to english clubs to finance it all. Propblem is if you get good players, they get sold, youre back to scratch again. Unless you have a huge support like celtic and rangers do.

Indeed but how is that any different to the way it was back in the day when Dundee Utd + Aberdeen + whoever were actually capable of challenging for the title? Those clubs were still (eventually) selling their best players to England or to Celtic and Rangers. Could it perhaps have something to do with being well managed and well run and not willing to resign themselves to sitting around midtable year after year boohooing over the fact that the Old Firm have all the money and all the best players?

Bit much to expect a Jim McLean or Alex Ferguson to roll around admittedly, but here's an idea for the club chairman for Scotland, how appointing some ex-Celtic players to management positions, a third of the EPL is managed by them after all (one less now)

It's the way you tell them. Next you'll be suggesting there might be some good Republic of Ireland footballers that Rangers could sign post-administration.

The administrator has said there will not be any players removed until next week, thus gaining an unfair competitive advantage over Kilmarnock on Saturday.

The administrator is not obliged to act in the best interests of Kilmarnock FC.

However the SFA/SPL is obliged to act in the best interests of Rangers FC

The administrator is obliged to act in the best interests of the creditors. In what way is paying Whittaker, Davis and McGregor £65,000 for 90 minutes work in the best interest of the creditors?

Whittaker is injured actually, he is getting £20k for doing nothing. I'm sure the creditors will be pleased.

Eight current or former English Premier League clubs are being investigated for their use of EBTs.

Mibbe a wee vacancy there for a big club in a non-viable league following the loss of its symbiotic rival :)

Boca Juniors?

press conference for 3.30 has been delayed. if anyone doesnt have SSN i can relay stuff if you want (but my memory is crap so if anyone else is watching it you can do it!)

stv lads will no doubt be tweeting about it.

ok

its starting

It's too much to hope for that the BBC News story - that Rangers' administration/bankruptcy would void the TV current rights contract - could lead to council telly showing a game or two?

There must still be value to Sky in showing Celtic games, I'd imagine they'd keep showing at a lower price (like half the current deal or so)

would have thought so but no doubt they will want to renegotiate the fees

The third division contract would get even more lucrative too

What contract is that? With the Auchtermuchty Express?

In what way is paying Whittaker, Davis and McGregor £65,000 for 90 minutes work in the best interest of the creditors?

"The reason it (tax) hasn't been paid is that it hasn't been sent. They were deductions that were made at source that were fundamentally used to fund the club."

Throw the book at the bastards

ssn stopped showing it but i just found the whole thing is streaming on bbc
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8501453.stm

its finished, did one of the hacks whistle a grand old team there?

Who let onimo in?

Point that stood out for me: @STVGrant"On registered docs, Whyte company is secured creditor. Remains to be seen whether valid"

lol tom

it doesn't seem to me to be completely bananas to suggest that deliberately hobbling your team (whose continued success generates - directly or indirectly - what revenues the business/club enjoys) would not be in the best interests of the creditors.

Rangers, should they hobble through the season, will finish second with or without those three players. The administrator should be looking to increase income streams (only way I can see anything there is to cancel season books and make fans pay in, which I think most of them would accept - as there're very few other way to increase matchday income) or to cut costs. If you can cut costs without affecting the "success" of the team then you should do so immediately. Getting rid of injured guys on big wages seems a no-brainer to me. Someone like McGregor I accept may be different - if there's still a Rangers come May he's a sellable asset and binning him now would cost them in the long term, if they have one.

A lot is dependent, I suppose, on what direction the administrator's intention to "get out of administration as quickly as possible" goes. Does he mean CVA and pay some debt and get back to normal functioning solvency or does he mean liquidation/pre-pack? He hasn't said, or I haven't heard.

I've been off the grid today - any actual big changes/announcements from the press conference?

Don't think so... unless Kerr hearing Grand Old Team counts

I think he just hears that in his head.

Conclusive proof of a pro-Celtic agenda in the press, innit. We're all paranoid.

ok I'm just reading this (tweeted live during the presser) from the RTC blogger and WTF

Did Ticketus believe that their loan was secured by Rangers FC, but was in fact secured by parent company that owns no assets except RFC?

Administrators confirm Ticketus money not on RFC balance sheet. Note Wavetower name change to The Rangers FC Group Ltd. Were they scammed?

Incredible that Ticketus might have fallen for such a basic scam. Classic Whyte: it would be hard to prove that it was fraud.

Note: we need confirmation from administrators that Ticketus are not part of RFC creditors, but it is looking very much like they were done

It would be good news for RFC if Whyte has used “minor name change on last version of documents” trick, but HMRC issue remains. No easy out.

Have Ticketus commented on any of this yet? This reads live they've been fecked out of £24m.

dear lawyers, please note I am only pasting shit from other bits of the Internet

It appears that Whyte may have scammed ticketus by convincing them that Rangers FC Group Ltd (formerly Wavetower) was actually the Football Club.

Just reading that very same info, having been offline most of the day then stupidly coming here first :(

Struggling to get a chance to catch up, but basically WTF covers it, I think.

lolol one of the administrators said that the debt had increased at the club since the takeover due to tax.

Um, not paying any tax will do that o_O

That cannot be right. No way would a £24m financing deal be done on the kind of slapdash basis that'd allow that to go through (or be upheld). They'd've wanted some security for the loan too, presumably. Someone owes them £24m anyway, so if not the club then who and on what basis?

Ticketus story on stv http://m.stv.tv/news/scotland/west-central/297828-24m-loan-for-rangers-future-season-ticket-sales-went-to-owner-craig-whytes-company/

I'm never going to understand this whole situation whatsoever.

Very good questions IK - you'd think that would have come up at the presser.

As I understand it Whyte took over Rangers FC with a company called Wavetower. Ticketus loaned money not to Rangers FC but to Rangers FC Group Ltd, which is the renamed Wavetower.

Rangers FC Group Ltd paid the £18m debt owed to Lloyds Banking Group. Rangers FC owe that money plus interest to Rangers FC Group Ltd.

(I can't remember what order this all happened in but it's somewhere on rangerstaxcase.com)

I've no idea how Ticketus get their money back.

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/21438

onimo's explanation is my understanding too - I assumed the Ticketus loan was somehow going to Wavetower to repay the wonga.com loan that paid off the Lloyds debt as I said upthread, but it never occurred to me that it would totally bypass Rangers.

Thing is, if the money from Ticketus didn't go into Rangers FC (the club) and didn't go through the club's books, and the money from Rangers FC Group Ltd (con artists formerly known as Wavetower) to Lloyds didn't go through the club... then Craig Whyte's secured status against the club isn't, um, secure?

I'm not a finance dude and I've no idea if that makes sense?

Celtic issue a "Get back in yer box" statement to Eck Salmond

After Mr Salmond's comments were reported on Thursday, Celtic released a statement re-asserting this position.

It said: "We are very disappointed with the first minister's claims that Celtic 'need' Rangers and that Celtic 'can't prosper unless Rangers are there'.

"This is simply not true. In a series of interviews given just three days ago, we made it abundantly clear that Celtic has a well-defined strategy and a business plan independent of the fortunes of any other club. That remains absolutely the case.

"The predicament of Rangers is clearly a serious and complex matter with a whole range of possible outcomes.

"However, we are extremely well-qualified to make our own position clear and have no wish to see this being misrepresented for political reasons."

Good on them.

Don't know if this helps or not?

http://www.kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11171279&t=8648238

I'm no financial expert but this Ticketus deal sounds like a big, fuck off pyramid scheme.

Or can someone explain how it's not.

It's more like a payday loan scheme except Whyte borrowed four years wages at once

Ticketus' loan to Wavetower must be secured, you'd think, in which case it would presumably be against ownership of the club itself would be the security unless Wavetower has other assets. But as the club has been notably on dodgy ground for ages, I'd've thought a more likely route would be security by personal guarantee by Whyte, which given his history would presumably entail a further security-against-his-security over Rangers' assets, assuming that's possible.

Oops. What I mean is Whyte's floating charge is the one concrete asset of any value that we know about, so it must be the security by some arrangement or other.

Thinking a little more, there must have been some other asset to start with, securing the wonga.com loan. And future ticket revenue's an asset too obviously, though Whyte has no title to it personally and obviously it'd be cavalier to say the least to rely on that in current circumstances even before all this.

http://i42.tinypic.com/5kpq93.jpg

lol at the thought of Celtic fans voting to stay within the UK to spite Salmond and Rangers fans voting for independence due to Her Majesty closing them down for not paying tax.

Look what @STV_Andy dug up: Craig Whyte on 5 Feb "Believe me, every single penny of the Ticketus money has stayed in the club."

he didn't say what club ;)

Mark Daly on twitter: Strathclyde Police confirm they've been passed a dossier of info on #rangers and are conducting a preliminary examination of it.

jim w@tson and foolston and co must be watching whyte with admiration. (except the man in the white suit would never get caught)

I can't speak for any other Celtic fan but my vote won't have anything to do with this shambles. It does, however, reinforce much of what I feel about Salmond.

what is in the dossier though?

all politicians are opportunists. would have been no different had labour tories or libs been in charge tbh.

Dossier put together by a former board member. I imagine there's some substance there.

aha. that's big then.

amazing that whyte has been there a year and already made murray to look like a saint compared to him. Murray will no doubt bullshit everyone insisting he just made a mistake and thought it was all legal and all that guff . Whilst Whyte couldn't possibly have the brass neck to even try that.

He can't possibly escape jail can he?

He has a lot of previous for questionable takeovers and treatment of creditors and renaming companies and liquidation etc etc and his punishment so far seems to have been spending a few years in Monaco. He might be a bit fast and loose with finances but he's maybe not the mug he's being painted as.

yeah , hopefully they can get him though. but he knows exactly what he's doing.

but mistakes can be made

Craig Whyte's business past is not new info.

My voting in the next election will not be directly as a result of this, but as another bit of ill-informed soundbite vote-courting shite, it doesn't surprise me from the government that invented the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications bill.

Dossier's from Alistair "surrender - no" Johnston, aye?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17072133

He's just trolling us because he's NOT a tax cheat, right?

Never mind that...

http://in.news.yahoo.com/craig-whytes-tax-advisor-leads-double-life-porn-094102697.html

The tax advisor of Craig Whyte, whose Rangers football club is under threat of liquidation, moonlights as a porn star when he is not dealing with numbers for his clients.

!

He sounds like a bit of a character:

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/04/04/rangers-expert-advice/

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/02/17/revealed-rangers-supremo-craig-whyte-used-different-birth-dates-and-spellings-of-name-to-register-companies-86908-23754531/

These stories have been floating around, with easily accessible evidence, for six months. Why did the tabloids sit on them for so long?

What is the point in owning a BMW if you don't drive the car?

ha ha ha gold

This just gets better and better!

The variant spellings of his name were clearly visible on the documents shown in the recent Newsnight Scotland expose. As onimo says, these things were well known to anyone following the RTC blog or the Scots Law Thoughts one. The likes of Keevins and that well-known intellectual heavyweight Gordon Dalziel kept insisting it was just the work of internet mentalists and conspiracist crackpots, but it's all well-researched, backed up with evidence, and finally being reported on by people who call themselves journalists but wouldn't know a bit of investigative research or a hard-hitting question if it nipped them in the arse.

oh aye, Private Eye were doing some digging around the time of the fakeover. I remember posting it on last season's thread. This is very much not new news.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/02/17/day-3-rangers-football-club-plc-in-administration-craig-whytes-corporate-structure-mapped/

Some further interesting musings.

Ailsa do you know why this happened?

Wednesday, 15 February 2012 06:55 I Love Football Message: 3246747 from thread: Rangers Have gone into Administration has been deleted.
Wednesday, 15 February 2012 06:54 I Love Football Message: 3246750 from thread: Rangers Have gone into Administration has been deleted.

Yes, I double posted a broken link. Can restore it for full transparency if required.

nah it's cool - I was wondering if I'd missed something libellous :)

Anything potentially libellous I'd de-index (see debate on other thread re the witchhunt on an HMRC employee). Was just housekeeping.

Right. Rangers do not owe Ticketus any money.
Rangers FC Group Limited do not owe Ticketus any money.
No one does.
Ticketus did not *loan* any money to Rangers or Wavetower.
Ticketus *bought* season tickets to resell.

As far as Ticketus are concerned they exchanged money for assets, those assets being £6-8m or thereabouts worth of tickets to sell for the next 3-4 seasons.

but

- how could a man/company who didn't own those assets sell them to Ticketus?
- how do Ticketus sell tickets for matches that don't happen because Rangers don't exist
- how do Ticketus sell "Rangers" tickets when the club playing at Ibrox is Rangers United Phoenix From The Flames FC?

Seems that anyone with any plan to resurrect Rangers has to fuck Ticketus over to do so, or lose millions a year in ticket sales.

Milan Mandaric has denied having any interest btw. I was looking forward to him talking 'arry into wheeling and dealing for the cream of the Albion Rovers youth team.

I'm interested in taking over Rangers. Who should I contact?

Do you have one pound?

I thought you were going to say "your analyst". I'm prepared to pay more than £1.

You have to really hate Celtic...

"craig whyte is a tim" 2 results (0.28 seconds)
"craig whyte is a celtic fan" 5 results (0.21 seconds)

I could tap you a pound, thus adding myself to your list of creditors?

By the way, this Paul Murray chap that's floating around was KBed by Moonbeam Murray when he was deciding who to trust with the Rangers legacy. What a beamer that must be, being passed over for someone who would prefer to trust Craig Whyte....

... and love the Queen. Yes, could be stumbling blocks I admit. (xxp)

Ally McCoist this morning: "Rangers will march right through this."

Is it that time of year already?

Bet you had an orange face after he said that

he had an orange face... but leave it as it is

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01455/01_04_2011---13_56_1455072a.jpg
http://thetorchonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/total-recall-bulge-eyes-300.jpg

Haha - that is amazing! CW doesn't take a good picture, does he?

- how could a man/company who didn't own those assets sell them to Ticketus?

- how do Ticketus sell tickets for matches that don't happen because Rangers don't exist

- how do Ticketus sell "Rangers" tickets when the club playing at Ibrox is Rangers United Phoenix From The Flames FC?

it looks like they bought the tickets from Rangers, who had title to them

But then shouldn't the administrators have seen at least a trace of this money on the football club's books?

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/2/29/Hypnotoad-1.gif

^this. Not one penny of this deal went into Rangers' books. No money at all was paid to Rangers.
Not one penny of the reported 100,000 season ticket sales will go into Rangers' future books.

Effectively Craig Whyte's company received £24m for £60m worth of Rangers assets and Rangers won't see a bean.

(if I understand it correctly, that is - it may be that Ticketus sell their £240 tickets for £600 each and Rangers are entitled to a cut of that profit)

I haven't seen anythng (haven't been looking/paying much attention - my interest in this is pretty much purely legal) that confirms that the consideration for the sale of the tickets has been received as yet (or that it should be received up front).

That's a point. It would have been mental of octopus to pony up £24m in advance, unless they had it secured by tangible assets rather than a promise.

Statement seems to confirm money has changed hands:

http://www.stv.tv/news/scotland/west-central/297894-craig-whyte-sold-rangers-season-tickets-to-ticketus-in-24m-deal/

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/297894-craig-whyte-sold-rangers-season-tickets-to-ticketus-in-24m-deal/

long winded way of saying "ahm no goin tae the game the morra"

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/football-news/article/2614559

also
And I wish to state categorically for the record now that I personally have not taken a single penny out of Rangers since I became chairman

Loads of wiggle room there in "I personally" and "out of Rangers".

Omits to say "I wish to state categorically for the record now that my company didn't take £24m by selling off Rangers' future income."

"horrible things have I seen"
http://files.stv.tv/img/articles/297910-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-will-not-return-to-ibrox-during-administration-410x230.jpg

The statement doesn't say much about payment - it seems pretty carefully worded so as not to give anything away on the consideration structure. Title to the assets can pass without all (or any - hooray scots law) the consideration being paid first. Not saying, of course, that this is what has happened.

Your ken is beyond mine in these matter calumerio. I'm just trying to make sense of a flurry of information from lots of people, many with vested interests.

There are a lot of laymen like myself who are incredulous at some of the stuff that's come out about these deals but I'm sure for anyone involved in the legal world shit like this happens on a regular basis without anyone even blinking. I mean look at Craig there, that a man who doesn't blink first for anyone.

Cracking post on Pie and Bovril:

CAIRNHALL LIMITED Dissolved
CAIRNWELL INVESTMENTS LIMITED NON TRADINg
CATHEDRAL SECURITY SERVICES (NORTHERN) LTD Dissolved
CCS 1996 LTD.Dissolved
CSS 1996 LTD Dissolved
CSS 1996 LTD Dissolved
HAG 1996 LTD. Dissolved
HIRE ACCESS GROUP LTD DissolvedI
CONIX LIMITED Dissolved
IN-STORE SECURITY SERVICES LTD Dissolved
INTERCITY GUARDS LIMITED Dissolved
INTERCITY GUARDS LIMITED Dissolved
ISS 1996 LTD. Dissolved
KRISTEN MANAGEMENT SERVICES LTD Dissolved
LM LOGISTICS GROUP LTD In Administration
MERCHANT CORPORATE RECOVERY PLC Accounts too old
MERCHANT HOUSE FINANCIAL SERVICES LIMITED No Longer a Director
MERCHANT INTERACTIVE LTD Dissolved
MERCHANT TURNAROUND PLC Accounts too old
PRITCHARD STOCKBRKERS Struck Off last Frday
STRIDENT PLC Dissolved
THE RANGERS FC GROUP LIMITED In Administration
THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB P.L.C. In Administration
TIXWAY UK LIMITED Active
U S G LIMITED Dissolved
VITAL HOLDINGS LTD Dissolved
VITAL PLANT SERVICES LTD Dissolved
VITAL SECURITY LTD.Dissolved
VPS 1996 LTD.Dissolved
WHYTE COMMUNICATIONS LIMITED Dissolved
WHYTE COMMUNICATIONS LIMITED Dissolved
WHYTE FORBES CONTRACT SERVICES LIMITED Dissolved
WHYTE HIRE LIMITED Dissolved
WHYTE PLANT LIMITED Dissolved
ZEMFILL PLC Dissolved

Who's the one person linked to all these companies?

TIXWAY UK LIMITED Active

^ordered earlier this to pay £86,127.36 plus interest at 8 per cent

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/the-tixway-judgment-it-is-even-worse-for-craig-whyte-than-first-reported/

It was at this hearing that Whyte said he didn't remember why he was banned from being a company director for seven years.

earlier this *month*

I'm incredulous about a lot this it, too and I haven't any better visibiity (to borrow a phrase from the administrators) than anyone else here but yeah, it is perfectly possible that everything relating to the takeover (and financing of the takeover) was 100% legal - that said, on the basis of presently available information is does look a wee bit like shart practice.

sharP practice

lol typo

Re the list of dissolved companies - again, this is not evidence of dodgy dealings, given CW's venture capitalist previous. Being banned from being a director is the real biggie.