bedtime

a) when did you first realize your child had a "bedtime"
b) how long does it take you to put them to sleep
c) how have a) and b) changed over time?

a) Think it happened around 3 months -- until then we just had him in the front room with us until we went to bed. Gradually started putting him in his crib a bit earlier til it got to 7ish.

b) Up til about 7/8 months he would breastfeed to sleep so as long as that took.

c) Bedtime is now a bit later than when he was little (8pm) because he started waking hellishly early if put down any earlier. Now he sleeps a full 12 hours and I've kind of got used to not getting up til 8am, but that will have to change when he starts pre-school! Also, now he just goes in his cot and we leave the room, although it is not unknown for one of us to have to go back in because he has chucked his toy giraffe out of the cot and started bawling.

If I can add d)... I used to worry SO MUCH about all this stuff when Howie was small, was I setting up bad habits, would he ever sleep more than an hour without waiting, would we ever get our evenings back? With hindsight I really needn't have worried -- it all changes so quickly as they get older and their sleep cycles mature and they become more able to settle themselves.

I mean without waking, not without waiting, duh

a - It was less a realization, and more that we forced one on them. One that is around 7pm.
b - We don't put them to sleep. We put them in their beds, and they go to sleep.
c - Their bedtime got a little earlier when they went from two naps to one nap. Now it's moved out to around 7:30. Once they lose the nap, it will probably move back to 7 for a while. As for how long they take to fall asleep... Well, it seems to take longer and longer. We're at the point where we can put them into bed at 7, and they can take up to two hours to go to sleep. If one of them is extra tired (skipped their nap, etc.), then usually they will fall asleep pretty quickly. And then, at that point, the other one goes to sleep too (nobody to talk to). If neither of them are particularly tired, however, they will chitter chatter forEVER. They squeak, squeal, and yell the alphabet back and forth at each other. They giggle, and yell out "mommy" and "daddy." They ask for water and talk about their day to each other. Pretty cute and sometimes annoying.

a - It was less a realization, and more that we forced one on them. One that is around 7pm.

what i'm particularly interested in here is the ages involved.. when did you start putting them to bed at 7?

WE didn't do bedtime until about 10 months. At first we just put Aidan down for naps in the pram downstairs and then when he had a feed around our bedtime we'd put him in the moses cot in our bedroom. When we moved him into his own room at 7 months we'd put him to bed after a feed around 8-9pm, then at around 10 months we started to put him to bed at a regular time, which was 7.30 - 8pm.

this sounds a bit like what we're doing so far.

i just realized i'm also very interested in when your kids moved into their own rooms! can i make that (d)?

d) Recommendation is 6 months at the earliest -- before that is linked with an increased risk of cot death.

Not that it was an issue for us, as we didn't have a spare room until we moved house when Howie was already 6 months old. Even then he spent at least part of most nights in bed with me until 9 months...

With Ophelia I established a rather strict routine which she certainly appreciated. I put her in a seperate room from the age of four months. Before that she'd get a BF at seven, wake up at 11 pm again for a BF and sleep through till seven AM. From four months, the second day I put her in the seperate room, she slept through from 7 till 7. Heaven. Elisabeth? God damn that's another story. The first year was HELL. I'm not exaggerating. I think it was a combo of me being much more relaxed about feeding and she just being a light sleeper. You walk next to her room and she wakes up. argh. You can FLY by her room and she'd still wake up. :-( Now she has a rather okayish sleeping routine. But the year has been exhausting beyond belief. I sometimes cried cause I couldn't take it anymore. There were a few times I regretted BF-ing (but quickly realized it was cause I was just so fucking exhausted).

d) Recommendation is 6 months at the earliest -- before that is linked with an increased risk of cot death.

They recommend four months here. As soon as your baby sleeps through.

One of the key things to avoid cot death is not having high temps in the room or overdress your baby (esp when s/he sleeps). We put both in the fridge. (I'm joking duh)

Oh yes, going to sleep haven't been a problem for both. I quickly did a routine. I would walk out of the room after a kiss on the forehead. If you really adhere to a routine, they know it's time for bed/sleep. (Like Elisabeth knows as soon as I go with her to Ophelia who gives her a gentle kiss and stroke on the head.)

They recommend four months here. As soon as your baby sleeps through.

*snort* Aidan didn't sleep through until 14 months. My neice on the other hand, also BF, was sleeping 12 hours from about 2 months

More info about sleeping - I used to feed Aidan to sleep (waiting to be shot down) I think I stopped doing that around 10 months I think (so hard to remember these things now!), when I started wondering if that's why he woke up in the night, whether he was used to feeding to sleep and so needed to feed to sleep again if he woke up. As you can see it didn't solve the problem... Some babies just wake up in the night and need help getting back to sleep.

Well, Elisabeth didn't either. What they mean is that at four months, to make it easier for'em to sleep through, is to put'em in a seperate room. If you keep'em in the same room, the noise (of you coming for example) will awaken'em more easily.

Well, point the gun at me: one of the RONG things I did was BF to calm her down (like you) but then I decided to wait. She'd cry a little (according to everyone except me, I thought she was hysterical) and then fall back asleep. My husband and friends and parents kept telling me she wasn't hysterical but I was convinced she was. I'm a bit sensitive I guess when it comes to crying. I just want to cuddle'em and make'em happy again. Of co course that's wrong: they do need to learn how to fall asleep on their own.

I feel like a bad mother for letting her cry at first. But after a few weeks she's doing much better. :-)

beeps slept though at 3 weeks but i still say this is more to do with her 11pm-12am bedtime. we have her down to 9pm now. 7pm is ridiculous for us since she doesnt get home from daycare until 5:30 and she still needs to eat. eat. we would never see her. that 7-8pm (pre-bath) hour is PRECIOUS

uh, I just got 8 straight hrs of sleep for the first time in 7 weeks. Wow. Woke up in total panic though, as previsou record was just over 4 hrs. I guess crying like a tortured maniac for five hrs straight tires a little girl out.

Five hours' crying? Sounds tough. Colic?

God, I hope not. She's usually pretty easy to calm down. She seems to grow out of whatever technique I figure out to soothe her after a week, though, and I guess it took me longer to figure her out this time.

uh, I just got 8 straight hrs of sleep for the first time in 7 week

HAHAHAHA. I didn't have this for like 15 MONTHS. Actually I still wake up cause I'm so used to it. Friends of my parents had a kid that cried like for 24 hours and only slept a couple of hours. She was a total wreck. Apparently her husband also slept very little. Can you imagine?I'd go absolutely bananas.

Howie had colic from around 6 weeks, seemed to go on forever. He would start crying around 6pm and keep going til he flaked out around 10ish. White noise, having him in a sling, Infacol and giving him a dummy were involved in getting through it, as far as I can remember (it's very hazy but will no doubt come back to me in April!).

DR SUperman i have 2 words for you GRIPE WATER. Im not even kidding here.

one day beats cried and screamed for 8 hours straight. PP made a mad desperate rush across town to the only place that sold gripe water back then. we gave it to her and had a happy baby within 10 minutes.

we're using gripe water and it seems to have no effect :/

what's gripe water?

use more! (xp)

e - a savior to us all:

http://www.theroyalnursery.com/shop/files/t_16857.jpg

wiki: Gripe water is a home remedy for infants with colic, gastrointestinal discomfort, teething pain, reflux and other stomach ailments. Its ingredients vary, and may include alcohol, bicarbonate, ginger, dill, fennel and chamomile. It is typically given to an infant with a dropper in liquid form, and adults may also take gripe water for soothing intestinal pains, gas or other stomach ailments.[1]

huh!

Tracer have you tried Infacol? It worked wonders for us.

Infacol was much better than gripe water (definitely no alcohol in the UK version!) but I always had trouble remembering to give it to him before I fed him, which was a bit of a problem. Apparently there's an even better but more expensive thing you can get from the chemist that quite a few of my friends swore by, but I've completely blanked on the name. I'll see if I can find out... - Colief http://www.ciao.co.uk/Reviews/Colief_Infant_Drops__5653637

I meant to go to a cranial osteopath with Aidan, but I had to cancel the appointment because of mastitis/abscess and never got round to making another one. But again, loads of people swear by it. There's a place in Clerkenwell that's a charity and you pay them what you can afford.... http://www.fpo.org.uk/

we used up our bottle of infacol. isn't the idea with all of this stuff that it makes the many little bubbles of gas which are making him writhe coagulate into just a few large bubbles, so that when they come out it has more of an effect?

thanks for the tips all, i may try the colief.

vicky what is with cranial osteopathy??

It sounds a bit weird, doesn't it! But I guess it kind of makes sense - depending on delivery there might be pressures on their skull etc. that shouldn't be there, which make them unsettled... So a cranky baby isn't necessarily all blocked up with wind, they could be uncomfortable for other reasons, which is why infacol etc. doesn't always work...

Other things it might be - if Emma's still breast feeding it could be something in her diet. Onions is often a cuprit, or spicy food.

http://www.kellymom.com/newman/02colic_in_bf_baby.html

There is a school of thought which holds that colic is simply a response to the massive sensory overload of being in the world. In which case anything you try is just something to make you feel you're doing something, while your kid gets it out of their system...

meg i have this deep sense of that ^ being right simply because it fits with so much else of how the world seems to work

also from what i understand every human culture, comprising every diet imaginable, has folk songs relating to trying to get babies to go to bed

we use mylicon (sounds the same as colief) before bottles/milk pre-bedtime. gripe water is really more appropriate for a defcon 1 type situation

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/419FFNS3YEL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

I think we've been very lucky with A & T - no great traumas early on, generally good sleepers as babies.

Of course, now they're a little older, it gets a lot more complicated. A lot of bargaining goes on. You can never tell whether a day of outdoorsy activity will leave them shattered and ready to zzzz upon contact with pillow or wind them up so much they won't let you leave the room. A bath sometimes soothes...and sometimes doesn't. We try to maintain a routine but it's just a lottery.

At the moment, I try to get them upstairs by 7:30 (bath every other night). Ava can undress and dress herself (if she feels like it, but you're adding another 10min there). Lulu loves the milk/bunny/pyjamas/nappy change routine and usually falls asleep while I'm in the middle of my first book (I nominally read to both, but I'm at Ava's bedside and Lulu's in her cot, so she can't actually see the book; on the occasions when Lulu joins us for the story, I can't get her into her cot).

It's usually three books chosen from the rotating cast of a dozen or so in Ava's bedside cabinet (she has milk too) and then a couple of improvised stories where she does the outline and I flesh it out. Ava likes people being in grave danger/trapped/covered in poo at the moment. If it's been a school (nursery) day, then Ava will have borrowed a book from their library and I'll write up what she thought of it (she's wise to my box-ticking methods - "Yes, I would read it again...THIS is my favourite picture...and I liked it when THIS happened") and she'll illustrate it with a picture (my favourite so far: "20 boys playing football in the long grass" - a mad splurge of circles, dots and lines).

Then it's a kiss and goodnight. That's the ideal anyway. The reality is often 30min more whining and negotiation, sometime full-on tantrums, occasional bad dream interruptions and (usually) Ava crawling in with us about 2am.

okay heres something. i remember (from a lomng time ago) some expert of tv saying dont let your kid drink milk before bed because its bad for their teeth all nihgt. how can milk be bad for teeth? i thought milk was v pro-teeth.

coke, which is bad for your teeth is also bad for you keyboard when you spill a 20oz bottle on it.

Milk contains natural sugars (lactose) so if it rests against the teeth all night (ie if the kid hasn't had their teeth brushed after milk) -- and particularly if the kid has a bottle all night -- it can speed up tooth decay.

schwantz i'm still interested about when you decided to impose the bedtime. at 2 months? three? six? ten?

i have to say i don't think our dude has colic. he's just a champion fusser at times. but he sleeps real good at night (so far).

I think it was around 4 months. At that point, Ben would still wake up for a snack at 1am, but Owen would sleep through the night. However, this was when we were freaking out about Ben (he had seizures at 3 months), and Owen seemed to pick up on it, and helped us out by sleeping through the night. Once we calmed down (around 6 months), Owen started waking up again. At around 7 months, we finally did the cry-it-out routine. Turned out it only took one night, and then they were doing 7-7.

How do you actually convince yr baby to sleep? Have been putting her in the sleepsack, dimming the lights, turning down the volume, etc, around 9 p.m., but she won't sleep until after midnight unless I put her in the Snugli and go for a walk. MY LEGS ARE KILLING ME. Last night I just put her in the Snugli and walked around the apt until she drifted off. Then I sat down and promptly konked out myself for three hours.
Not a pattern I want to establish, but, man, I gotta sleep too!

How old is she? Howie used to need walking/rocking/feeding/cuddling to sleep for many months. I wouldn't worry about bad habits at this age, just do what you gotta do.

Yeah, it took a long long time before Megan would even fall asleep at a somewhat reasonable hour.

she's nine weeks. and she's actually proving to be pretty pattern-proof anyway. what works one day won't work the next. Except the Snugli. God bless it.

Also, she doesn't seem to be napping much during the day, except when her mom takes her out in the stroller or snugli. I kinda think this is affecting her ability to sack out at night, too tired to sleep, etc.
Though this week she's discovered her hand, and has at least twice calmed herself back to sleep by gnawing on it. Unfortunately, her coordination is still pretty random and she's just as like to land a finger in her eye as her mouth, which sets her off worse.

God, I don't think Howie was going to bed before 1am at nine weeks and even then he would often sleep only on my chest! And I had to walk him round the block five times a day to get him to nap (he would only nap on the move and only for 30 mins at a time, you could set your watch by it).

It won't last forever, I promise!

Do any of you cheat and take the babe for a drive in the car? I know several people who find this technique very successful.

ive done that twice. it worked once (the first time, obv.)

Howie always used to fall asleep in the car -- very handy when going to visit relatives, as we could time the journey to coincide with his nap and have peace and quiet all the way. Sadly, the last couple of times we've driven anywhere this has failed to work, as the prospect of shouting "Car! Bus! Truck!" is far too exciting to sleep through.

boys

somehow this has become a non-issue.

naptime's still a challenge but bedtime established itself as some time between 7:30 and 8, like clockwork. i have no memory of how this occurred.

how long does yr guy sleep until?
our girl settled into a regular 11pm bedtime, sleeping until a very decent hour in the am, but then my wife decided that 11 was too late for a baby to be up until, and we tapered her down to an 8pm bedtime, but then she started waking up, like really waking up at 5am, which just don't fly. So now she goes to bed between 9 and 10 and wakes up just in time for me to change a diaper and hand her off to her mom before I go to work, instead of, um getting up two hours befoer I would otherwise get up to go to work. The tradeoff, though, is that we had "free time" at the end of the day when she was going to bed at 8.

well for a couple of months we did an 11pm snack, where i'd go in with a bottle and kind of half-rouse him, enough to get it down him, and he'd go right back to sleep. then he'd wake up at 2, and again at 5, like clockwork. last week we were like hmm, let's see what happens if we skip that 11pm meal. the first night we skipped it he slept through til 6am and it's been like that for a week now. 6 is still.. sorta sucky but often he'll go back to sleep on his own til 7 which is awesome when it happens.

With O I had a pretty strict routine (she more or less handed it to us): eat at seven, wake up at eleven and then sleep till seven. She skipped the 11 pm snack at four months. Elisabeth had the wake-up-every-2/3-hours routine for more than a year. But now she goes to sleep at about 7 pm and wakes up at... EIGHT AM.

I fear when we will go to Japan next months. Urgh. Ophelia never did have a problem (only she didn't sleep much on the plane) but Elisabeth? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

how did you all transition from rocking to sleep to just leaving the kid in the crib? we still havent managed this with beeps. i really doubt it would fly with her at all.

Hmm, we did sleep training when Howie was 9 months but a two-year-old requires a different strategy, I should think. Does she have a regular bedtime routine (bath, stories, milk etc)? If so then I might be tempted to just follow the normal routine then put her to bed (with lots of explaining that she's going to sleep, you'll see her in the morning), leave the room then see what happens -- she might just surprise you. (You could practise putting her dolls to bed during the day, too.)

If this upsets her too much then you could try a 'gradual withdrawal' method, the idea of this is that you start with rocking her to sleep, then step by step over a few days at a time move slowly away from her. Eg you cuddle to sleep for a few days, then hold hands, then sit by the cot, then move closer to the door, until eventually you can leave the room while she's awake.

There is a good explanation of the gradual withdrawal method here.

Thanks, Meg! Good advice.

our dude goes to sleep on his back in the crib with a dummy and some shushing. no idea what would happen if we didn't use the dummy. chaos probably.

yeah beeps never wanted a pacifier. lord knows we tried to make her want one. probably a good thing now though.

uh oh

sleep is becoming rocky, no idea why

Is he 4/5 months?

Is he 4/5 months?

hahahaha, sounds about right! Aidan's sleep got horrendous round about this time - he was waking up every hour, drove me potty.

Yep, this was when Howie's sleep went completely haywire. I think it's partly growth spurt and partly all the developmental gubbins. I survived (just!) by co-sleeping, it seemed a bit easier to deal with when I didn't have to get out of bed.

also teeth maybe? or is that too early?

Oh god, I'd forgotten about teeth. Got to go through all that again...

I never understand why, given that people are usually all to happy to tell parents to be that they'll be shattered, the birth will be horrendous, abandon all hope ye who enter here etc. that more isn't said about how horrible teething is, and more importantly HOW LONG IT LASTS!!!! I seriously had no idea that teething would be such a protracted nightmare.

eep

care to elaborate?

Well I just thought that teeth would come in pretty quickly but it's such a drawn out process. Some kids don't seem that bothered, others go through what seems like torture. With Aidan he didn't get his first tooth until almost his first birthday and several would come in at a time, so we'd have a week or so of yucky nappies and an unhappy restless sleeping Aidan. It felt that from 11 months - 14 months was just relentless. A tooth would come through and he'd go back to his normal happy self, and it seemed like a week later we'd be back to the miserable whingey boy.

It's just something that no-one had really mentioned to us, so we didn't know to expect it

Oh yes. Up to three weeks of clinginess, moaning, manic dribbling, sleepless nights and horrific nappies, then a tooth pops through, then you get a short break then it all starts again. Repeat x 20 baby teeth until driven slightly insane.

why are the nappies crazy??

babbys get diarrhea, fevers and runny noses when teething although no doctor will admit the correlation

the official line is they get sick because their fingers are in their mouths all the time when their teeth hurt

My first pediatrician said it was bollox. Hey, whatevs, dude. Who cares about runny noses, it's all about SCREAMING in the middle of the night (and day) with no solution at all. Well, for Elisabeth. But then she pretty much did that anyway, day and night.

TH, you can never know. Ophelia pretty much slept through teething. They both were early: around 4 months but it can just as well start at 12 months. Wait until they get the molars. Honestly, I felt for Elisabeth. Imagine the pain and not understanding why. I read how it feels and me, I'd probably wanted to tear my mum's head off for creating me. Actually now I think about it, Elisabeth had that look in her eyes. heheh.

We've noticed that when Elisabeth is crying (short bursts), she actually has her eyes closed so maybe sleeps through it?

I just came on here to brag that TWICE yesterday we put Alice down awake and she fell asleep herself after only ~5 minutes of crying but now I'm feeling like I shouldn't brag because so many troubles (teething! mysterious 4/5 month grumpiness!) are just around the corner.

this is after a week of "sleep training," mind

Teething! All our hard work establishing routines and bedtimes and FUN BABY TIME dashed! Still no pearls, but O THE DROOL!
Dismantled and remantled crib in baby room about three weeks ago. Took a while, but as of the last three nights, I'm the only one bothered by it. She reliably sleeps solid from 8:30 p.m. to 6 a.m. give or take either way.
This morning, she pointed at me and said "Da-da!" and I was so proud and then she pointed at the window and said the same thing, and likewise to EVERYTHING else in our house.

pls help w/ strategies to skip middle-of-the-night feedings

going crazy here--it seemed like we were getting better, moving forward, had it down to bedtime 7/7:30, a feed at maybe 10:30pm, then 3am, then up at 7. Now she's back to waking and wanting a feed every 3 hours MAX.

What age is she?

The thing I learned (the hard way) with Howie is that infant sleep is not a linear progression of longer and longer times between wakings (except for the lucky few). Can be affected by teething, health, learning to roll/crawl/walk/whatever, heat, phases of the moon...

The other thing I learned is that everything is just a phase and will pass...

She's four months and a bit. Yeah, we seem to be learning over and over again how much/quickly she changes. And I know that there are/will be many 'steps backward' on the way to maturity. But nine feeds per twenty-four hours is a bit o_O

four months is a bad time, bad bad time. I would burst into tears just walking in the park because I was so tired and worn down by night feeds. It did pass. You just have to work out what's important to you and figure out from that what you need to do - put up with the extra feeds or do something else to try and change it.

Are you co-sleeping? Would make the night feeds less of an issue (presuming that she's still breastfed, wouldn't help with bottles!)

FWIW I don't think nine feeds in 24 hours for a 4 month old is over the top at all.

Nine feeds a day at that age seems pretty normal to me tbh. If you think about how many times you have a drink, snack or meal every day I bet it adds up to more than nine.

I am personally not a fan of trying to cut night feeds with such a young baby, but you can try to change your routine so you're better rested. I found co-sleeping made the night feeds a lot easier to deal with. Also for a few nights you could go to bed when she does, to catch up on some of the sleep deficit.

(Says she who is still up at 11.30pm when the baby will be awake in an hour or so for his first nighttime feed, then every 2 or so hours after that!)

I am personally not a fan of trying to cut night feeds with such a young baby

^^Should clarify this, of course I don't blame anyone for trying to get their baby to sleep as long as possible at night! What I mean is I'm not a fan of anything involving leaving the baby to cry at this age. I tend to assume that if they want feeding then they are hungry. But of course you could try cuddling/patting or giving a dummy first. (NB this never worked for us!)

See-saw sleeping patterns ahoy! Have had two consecutive full night (8 p.m. to 5/6 a.m.) sleeps, after two weeks of a return to frequent wakings. We got so used to her sleeping the night through that when she started waking every TWO hours (pretty sure it's teething) it really knocked us on our asses.
Have kinda-sorta come to terms that this is just how it's going to be for the next forever years.

Maybe superfluous advice, but have you raised the bed? Sleeping flat can be painful when they teethe. Also, they have ointments (?) you can rub on the gum. And if they are screaming for a very long period, it's not a bad idea to give a mild painkiller.

Yes, we've got teething gel, and sometimes give her paracetamol, if we think she's got bad teething pain. It's less that she's fussy or cranky (though of course she can be those things enough), and more (I think) that she's gotten into bad habits. I realize that this is par for the course for these months, but it's so frustrating to know that she *can* go five-six hours between feeds at night (she's done it! she didn't starve!) but that she just won't.

All of this would be a lot easier to manage, for K, if she wasn't trying to finish a lot of (academic) work at the moment. So she really needs her evenings, after the baby goes down, for work (so she can't, say, catch up on sleep from 8-11pm), and she needs a fresh brain as well. Which is pretty much impossible on 5-6 hours of interrupted sleep a night.

wow everything was fine and now... yowling for 45 mins before sleeping, every night - i feel like we've stepped back in time three months!

(he is about 6.5 months old)

Has he started teething? That can really interfere w/sleep.

once he actually gets to sleep he's out like a light, is why i think it's poss not teething. but whaddo i know.

we have the opposite problem - crashing at bedtime and waking up two hours later not wanting to go back to sleep until 6am. no idea how to fix this.

<Guesses>

Tracer: separation anxiety? Going to bed too early or too late?

SS: Erm, got me stumped there. Does she still have a nap in the day?

Archie only woke once for a feed last night! However, attempts to transition Howie to a duvet and bed have proven disastrous, so we have gone back to sleeping bag and cot. Really have no clue how him in a bed is going to work.

She naps for two hours in the day time. Shes become really clingy lately. Needs one of us with her all the time including when she wakes up in the night. Its kind of killing us.

We tried to get beeps to sleep in a bed too but it didnt work out. I later read that kids under 3 dont have the cognitive ability to understand the imaginary confines of a bed and they subsequently freak out when you put them in one.

well now he woke up three hours after going to sleep. something is definitely up.

TEETH

yeah i think maybe so! exciting

we have the opposite problem - crashing at bedtime and waking up two hours later not wanting to go back to sleep until 6am. no idea how to fix this.

Let her cry. She's old enough. If you can't really do it, you can do it in a roundabout way. Check the clock for ten minutes, then go in, put her in bed and tell her to go to sleep (or even better, say nothing). Repeat ad nauseam. If you can handle it, do longer. Like first ten minutes, then 15 minutes,.... Or you can also sit with her, not saying anything and just wait till she goes to sleep. Trust me, she only does it, because she's "rewarded" (you give her attention, even if you're angry). :-) I know, it's easier said than done. If all else fails, let her sleep in your bed. I know how it is if you're pregnant.

Oh yeah, you're just back, right? I mean, it's only been a week or so, right? Could very well be the fucked up time zone. Some need a long time to adjust.

She's got until Monday and if she's not cured, she's sleeping in the garage.

Really my only problem w/Megan's sleep right now is that our cat goes into her room at 5am and wakes her up with his yowling, and then she usually can't go back to sleep again. If we close her bedroom door he just starts banging on her door during the night, which is even louder than his crying. This cat drives me crazy.

cosign (xp)

I would tell that cat that she's got until Monday and if she's not cured, she's sleeping in the garage.

Sleep training, Round 142

All week, she's been waking up several times through the night, often not going back down for 2-3 hrs. Makes everyone but her irritable. She just wants to play! Teething, yes, but that's been going for months (no teeth yet, tho). Also, practising her new nearly 7-month-old skills, sitting up, grabbing, rolling around, crawling. The only consolation is that after being up all night, she'll have two 2-hr naps throughout the day, and one shorter one.
Last night, almost on a dare, we bumped her bedtime up an hour. Slept straight through, 10.5 hrs. Too early to tell if this fixes everything or is at least a semi-pattern, but cause for great optimism/rest.

To PP: So the garage?

After two weeks of hardcore-cry-it-out sleep training, my 7-month-old daughter sleeps beautifully through the night after 15 minutes or less or tortured crying. Usually it's more like 5 minutes. Howev, her naps have shrunk down to 30 mins and she has developed a terrible separation anxiety. Anytime we leave her in a room, she freaks out. Makes going to the bathroom awful.
otherwise, two teeth in the last week, and she's pulling herself up into standing position.

nath, the kidd slept peacefully for nearly 12 hours last night.

Granted, it was in our bed with her feet in our face, but at least we weren't arguing about whether Wonder Pets was on.

i've found that if we give the big L solids any time after 5pm it makes going to bed @ 7:30 nearly impossible. fwiw.

wow. i find if we dont feed beeps dinner right before the bedtime routine she wakes up at 4am hungry :(

yeah - you know, i am probably just making that up and it's something else entirely. parenthood is like this giant game of making up stories that help you make sense of things. i bet we're right 50% of the time MAX.

(I know there's a photo quarantine thread, but allow me this one transgression... if you want your kids to sleep on a couple of folded duvets on the floor at their nan's, tell them the story about the princess and the pea... NB, may not work with boys)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2480/3727220813_e09e2753d7.jpg

ha!

We have just started Alice's transition from cot to bed, though being poor we have not actually forked out for a bed yet, just removed one side of the cot (which is very low and still plenty long enough for her). First night - found her in the middle of the carpet at 4am, whimpering a bit but still half-asleep. Last night - found her UNDER the bed at 5.30am. I don't think she's been falling out so much as sliding herself off, but is this normal? Should we have got a proper bed with a guard? Or is she just not ready?

We tried this a while ago, when Beeps was a little over 2, but would find her wandering down the hall not knowing where she was or rattling the gate at the top of the stairs at 1am. "They" say you shouldn't make the move until the kiddo is three because they cant grasp the concept of the imaginary walls of a bed yet. Alice must be close to three though. My friend had pretty much instant success with her almost 3 year old by pushing the bed against a wall and using a guardrail. So maybe making them feel as confined as possible is the trick? Let us know how it goes and what works for you guys because weve got to get Beeps out to make way for kid no2 soonishly.

Alice isn't three until December and maybe she does it find it too confusing, although very much likes the *idea* of a big girl bed...

Update: after the first couple of nights A has been a dream with the bed, in fact the only problem now is stopping her from getting in it while she's still fully dressed! Once she worked out that she could get herself up in the morning she was delighted, and will happily play in her room for half an hour before coming to find us.

Woah Nice! Did you do anything differently or was it just a matter of getting used to it?

We didn't do anything different, just kept bunging her in and hoping for the best! She does have a wall on one side of her which I think has helped.

Howie went into his big bed on Saturday! So far so good, apart from a slight confusion about duvets and the use thereof (cue screams at 1am of "Mummy! Mummmeeeee! I WANT IT ON!!!!!!!!!" as one leg is ever so slightly sticking out from under the duvet). And pillows seem to be for sleeping next to, not on:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Q2cuqOo8v8M/SpKMEamSoWI/AAAAAAAAMJc/scOPXA4Kaes/s800/photo.jpg

I'd like one week of uninterrupted sleep. I got two nights of sleep! But last night was just horrendous. I didn't sleep from one till 4. ARGH. When will this stop? I really need my sleep back. :-(

how's it going?

how old are yours again? have they always been trouble at night?

dudes. 5 days of henry sleeping from 10 - 7am. Actually he woke at 5 this morning but he did sleep until 8:30am to make up for it earlier in the week. hes kind of a champ for a 7 week old

Wow you must breed good sleepers!

Sunny, can you come and teach my kids to sleep.

TH, they are 2 and almost four. This night was hellish yet again. First Ophelia woke up for a glass of water. (Not that it matters: I placed a glass next to her bed previously and she just woke up and demanded sth else.) Then Elisabeth woke up several times. She was wide awake: giggling for a good 15 minutes... and then screamfest again. It was two am when I went back to sleep. They woke up at seven. I was so out of it, I nearly ran into a wall. lolz

Ophelia was great until the age of about 2,5. Elisabeth has been a ride in hell since she was born. Actually no, the first three weeks she slept. Then it was hell. lolz but not really

Someone we know recommended this book, but I don't know: http://www.sleepyplanet.com/products/sleepeasy_book.php
The amazon page has endorsements from Greg Kinnear, Ben Stiller and Conan O'Brien! So there's that, haha. We have been incredibly lucky with Sylvie so far -- so much so that I hesitate to even talk about it for fear of jinxing. For the past 2 weeks, she's pretty much been sleeping from 9ish to at least 7am, w/o waking up. She'll make a little noise from time to time, but then falls right back to sleep. She's only 4 months, so teething hasn't even started yet. I expect that'll put an end to these long nights.

Any recommendations on transferring a 5 month old from a swing to a crib? She doing great right nows (generally sleeps from 9:30 pm to 6:30 am), so I don't want to mess anything up. But our pediatrician seems to think that if we wait any longer she'll have a real hard time getting used to it. Also, how old were your kids when they started sleeping in cribs? Part of me wants to wait a few more months because of SIDS concerns.

The boys both went into a big cot around 4 months as they outgrew the little crib we had. I just put 'em in there and hoped for the best (Howie was a terrible sleeper before and after -- Archie pretty much slept through as soon as he went into the cot).

what is a swing??

Talking about these things:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41y39D03GPL._AA400_.jpg

We transitioned her from a bassinet to this around 2 1/2 months, I think. It totally saved our lives at the time. Unfortunately, she immediately wakes up when we try placing her in the crib when she falls asleep. I think she's gotten used to being in a cradled postion while sleeping.

How about something like this in the crib, to make her feel more secure?

Oh yeah, I forgot about those things. We may try that. Thanks!

Wow, I think here they would strongly advise against a swing. For several reasons, mainly because they claim such things are bad for the back. Hell, we can't even use it too long during the day.

ANYWAY bedtime?What the hell is that? This night was a record. Elisabeth was awake and frigging playing in her bed until she had a screamfest. During that time, until 4 AM, Ophelia would come to our bed and demand to sleep with us. I know some would succumb and we have in the past. But 1 it's a bad idea (this night case in point, she is stubborn) and secondly we get no sleep because the bed is too small for three people. Honestly I am trashed beyond belief. Every other day it's more or less like this. Not a week of solid sleep goes by. Maybe once a while we get some sleep, like eight hours. But most of the time one or both wake us up.

Urgh.

Okay, sorry, had to rant and moan. No wonder my sinus infection doesn't go away. My throast is hoarse and my eyes bleary.

Our Alice would never go in a cot. She could be completely zonked, but the very second we transferred her from arms to cot, she'd jump up and yell.

There was a spare normal bed in her room as well, so we put her on that instead (with the cot alongside to prevent fall-out), and that was fine.

I have now resorted to sleeping half an hour (or less if it's doable) with Ophelia... in her bed.

Sunny, can you come and teach my kids to sleep.

nath, beeps slept through from 3 wks with the occasional expected restless teething night etc until she turned two. i think shes slept through the night maybe twice since then and shes turning 3 in less than a month. in the end we caved to cosleeping (her starting in her bed and ending up in ours anywhere between 12-4am). Co-sleeping was probably the only thing we were really against as new parents but when it comes down to getting 2 or less hours sleep a night and the consequent frayed nerves and fights i guess youve just got to go with what keeps you all sane.

also i should say i completely credit all of this infant sleeping to the miracle blanket.

wtf seriously? it seems bizarre that she could suddenly turn around and just not sleep through anymore.

Now that Aidan is in a bed we notice that he often doesn't 'sleep' through. Sometimes we'll get woken up by him shouting 'mummy! mummy! etc. but he'll go back to sleep, some nights (like last night) he'll actually get out of bed and come through to and pat me on the face or hand to wake me up. Just because the parent doesn't wake up doesn't mean the child doesn't. I think when he was in the cot he just settled himself and went back to sleep quicker than he does now he knows he can get out of bed.

i am going to have to learn more patience than i currently possess if my child starts patting me on the f'in FACE while i am trying to sleep

it's kinda cute, he does it ever so gently. Luckily he's happy for me to lead him back to his bed, I give him a quick cuddle then say night night.

Big tip on how to avoid it though - make sure you are sleeping furthest away from the door as they always go for the nearest side. I am kicking myself that I didn't do anything about it before now.

Howie doesn't seem to realise he can actually get out of bed in the night (we put a stair gate across his room just in case!).

He does wake once or twice most nights though, mostly in need of a drink of water or to fish out Igglepiggle from down the side of the mattress. Occasionally he thinks it's cute to pretend to be a kangaroo and kick the side of the bed for half an hour in the middle of the night.

One of the cutest things I ever experienced: I went to check up on O. I looked at her very close - I really love seeing my kids sleep - and she woke up, lifted her head and said: "FRUIT!" and went back to sleep. lol Other times she just smiles rrrreally sweetly and strokes my face. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) <3

Well, we almost have Chloe out of the swing now. Things got all screwy when she got a cold/ear infection/teething, but I suppose that's par for the course. She's actually sleeping really well at 5 1/2 months. Right now she goes to bed at 7 - 8 pm, gets up to eat around midnight, and then sleeps in until 6 am. Is that unusual? Does this mean something awful is about to happen or something???

something awful is always right around the corner but it is invariably proceeded and followed by something astoundingly great

I knew I shouldn't have posted the "elisabeth sleeps through" . she came into our bed at around 12 am. Then a few hrs later it was Ophelia's turn. She slept with me until the morning.

ARGH!!!!!!!!!

The girls, about an hour ago (they NEVER do this):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2794/4332862913_2392873646.jpg

<3 <3

So they share a room? What age from? The boys will need to go in together at some point but not sure how that's gonna play...

Also, Howie still doesn't know what his pillow's for, and sleeps curled up in the middle of the bed with the duvet right over his head.

Well, we finally got their room sorted out in Mar '07 when Ava was just past her 2nd b'day and Lulu was five months. At that point it was a bed and a cot; since May '09 they've had identical Ikea beds (it's never looked this good since):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3350/3552977936_02afcaac9e.jpg

Guys, I need some... support. Be frank, I don't give a shit if you say I'm crazy or stupid for saying what I'm about to post.

Every night Ophelia comes to our bed. Now this wouldn't be that big of a problem if our bed was big enough. But it isn't. So one of us needs to go sleep in her (big single bed). It has happened that Elisabeth has awakaned and cuddled up next to Ophelia in our bed. You can't really refuse when she sees O sleeping in our bed. We're at the same point as E's sleepless period (first 15 months or so). We're wrecked. I can't really say no, I just let her sleep in our bed. But my husband is, understandably, not happy. Has anyone made a firm point and refused their kid(s) in their own bed?

How long does this period - of sleeping in parents' bed- really last? It can't be that long, right?

See, this is what happens when you let them out of the closet at night.

Nath I know loads of families who play musical beds with their kids in the middle of the night. And nobody who still does it with a teenager, so they must grow out of it at some point! I'm always in favour of the solution that gets everyone the most sleep, so if you all sleep OK in together then why not -- is getting a bigger bed an option?

OTOH if it's stopping you sleeping then why not try some gentle ways to fix it. Some friends of mine had success getting their three-year-old to stay in his own bed with a night/day alarm clock like this one -- http://www.bunnyclock.com/. Or how about a reward chart?

Nath, we haven't cracked this problem at all.

Ava comes in with us less than she used to - perhaps seven nights out of every ten rather 19 out of every 20 (as it was up to a year ago) - and if it's just her then there's virtually no sleep disruption. But if it's Tallulah too (perhaps one night in four), then there's no way we can get through the night. Either I have to try and sleep in about four inches of bed, or they fight for space keeping us all awake, or - if I'm lucky - Lulu is so heavily under at the point at which her presence wakes me that I can carry her back into her room without further disturbance. I have gone and slept in Ava's bed before but it's the least-favoured option as it leaves Lulu on the edge of our bed and me out of earshot of the alarm.

Okay, knock on wood, suddenly she has been sleeping through the night much more. Of course discounting that one night when both woke up and slept in our bed. But I was able to get them back into their own bed.

TH, lolz. :-)

Friend updates F'book status at 8:30, says he is Ferberizing (cry it out) one of his sons. Through the comments, he and his wife make it known that the Ferberizing son used to go to sleep at 8:00, but lately it has been more like...9:00. A later comment from the dad, left close to 9:00, says "Oh, there he goes again." They are not losing sleep over their son -- who might not need as much sleep as he once did, you know? -- and they are getting tough over one bloody hour. I doubt their older son slept through it.

My nerves wouldn't make it, I promise you. Co-sleeping is the only way I will survive.

Beeps stopped co-sleeping with us when she got a newly decorated room w/ twin bed that has a princess canopy. I totally miss it.

I loved co-sleeping with Howie. There is nothing like waking up with a baby snuggled alongside you. But Archie never really went for it, he slept much better in his own room. Plus being able to breastfeed lying down is the key to restful co-sleeping and even now Archie won't latch on lying down.

Same here. Ophelia never went for co-sleeping. Elisabeth still is a very fussy sleeper. But y'know you have to adapt. Be flexible. I do realize I was (and still am) very quick to run if she cries. The other day I went to the attic after I put her to bed for her afternoon nap. She cried. I decided to just go up for a minute. She stopped after two minutes. lol

I'm not a big fan of co-sleeping as I tend to roll over. I know many say that a mom will wake up if she rolls on top of her child, but I woke up once or twice with her lower body under mine. I worry way too much. But she's older now and I see less danger in doing it. :-) But I did co-sleep (when necessary, when she wanted).