attorneys

i met an attorney named Kyle recently. do you know any attorneys?

i know some

do you know any

I mean besides Kyle

no

i know a couple of lawyers, but no attorneys, besides Kyle. and i don't even really know Kyle. do you like the attorneys you know?

depends

are we talking about attorneys at law?

what other kinds are there? oh you mean like a tax attorney. no i meant attorneys at law

they're ok

but i bet you don't know any female attorneys at law

hmm

yup. changes everything.

actually, yes, I know at least one, and possibly as many as 27

REALLY. jealous.

To break character though, I had a boss who said you should never call yourself an attorney, only a lawyer. He was an old Jewish francophile from Brooklyn, and he taught me that Hermes ties were the best ties, and that it was important to wear the narrow end loose (instead of tucked in to the loop) as it showed "elegant insouciance." He had much good advice.

sounds like a good boss.

also, shoeshines were very important and there was no such thing as too shiny

wow

I would love to be that guy's personal or executive assistant, if it came with a comped wardrobe.

Also what's the difference between a lawyer and an attorney, is this a britisher thing

i do think it's a regional thing

for some reason i always thought that attorneys were more closely tied to litigation but i think i'm wrong

They are the same thing, attorneys and lawyers. In England there is a difference between a solicitor and a barrister.

A lawyer who litigates is sometimes called a litigator, but she is both attorney and lawyer, as they are one and the same.

Lady lawyers who litigate.

right. you're so right.

i would love to be the head of litigation one day

or maybe not

"Board Attorney" has such a better ring to it than "Board Lawyer",

Hurting what will the hallmarks of your style be when you are an old Jewish lawyer

hey hurting what happens if i don't pay this red light camera ticket i got when i was in NYC. it was months ago and i've since changed states of registration

xp http://cdni.condenast.co.uk/642x390/g_j/gtalese_timelife_gq_1jun11_getty_b.jpg

Attorneys rule everything around me. A.R.E.A.M.

"what's the difference between a lawyer and an attorney"

(in US usage, at least...)

For many, there is none. For those who distinguish, however, while anyone who is a graduate of a law school is a "lawyer," only those admitted to the bar are "attorneys" ("at law"). Thus, one can be a lawyer but not a licensed attorney, but not vice versa.

Well, perhaps the latter isn't true in 100% of cases, given that one can become admitted to the bar without having gone to law school, through apprenticeship, but this is fairly rare, and most would not declare someone so admitted not a lawyer.

I know some lawyers. my favorite cousin just passed the bar in Washington actually.

i'm an attorney the bar exam was so easy

is the LSAT a fun test to take just for fun

no and iirc it was expensive? you could just get a practice book if you want to play logic puzzles though

my dad is an attorney for the govt so i guess u could say i'm part lawyer

i mean u could say that but that's not really how genetics works so i would advise against it

as a part-lawyer you would advise against it?

My parents are both lawyers, does that make me a full lawyer?

U can't call yourself a lawyer or attorney unless you have passed the bar and been admitted. So the law school grad explanation is incorrect

what if nobody is rly a lawyer, makes u think

I passed the bar too, but it was a Sunday anyway.

being a lawyer is super fun let me tell you

i do contract work for big law litigators, it does NOT look like fun

it isn't.

I can call myself a lawyer

On the telephone, anyway

"U can't call yourself a lawyer or attorney unless you have passed the bar and been admitted. So the law school grad explanation is incorrect"

It's inaccurate to say you "can't" call yourself (or someone else) something. We do have a First Amendment in this country, you recall. Nevertheless, it's correct to say, probably because many members of the lay public (and a good number of attorneys) do not recognize any distinction between "lawyer" and "attorney" (or regard it as artificial), that holding yourself out as a "lawyer," i.e. to a tribunal or someone seeking representation or perhaps even for other purposes, could bring you to the attention of the state bar of the relevant jurisdiction, potentially resulting in a cease and desist letter, civil injunction, or even an Attorney General investigation or civil suit of some sort, etc. That's probably especially a concern for recent graduates who are not yet attorneys but may appear to be because they are working in a law firm, e.g. (and for that reason they may add a caveat like "not yet admitted to practice" to their communications with outsiders). That does not, however, mean that you can't informally describe yourself as a lawyer if you have graduated from law school but not been admitted to practice, just as we describe a good many politicians and even law professors who have let their licenses lapse or never become attorneys in the first place as lawyers. Given the confusion over the terms, though, it would probably be clearer to say that you are trained as a lawyer but are not an attorney who is licensed to practice law.

(The above is not intended as nor should it be relied upon as legal advice)

actually holding yourself out as an attorney, when you're not, may constitute the unlicensed practice of law which is illegal in many states.

You shouldn't hold yourself out in any public space whether you are an attorney or not

Daniel, who has earned not only the titles of both attorney and lawyer, but that of esquire, knows from whence he speaks

Most of my friends are lawyers or journalists, but the lawyers are no more eager to pick up bar tabs, let me tell you

yeah, i is a lawyer

I. AM. A. LAWYER.

not just Esquire but Esquire 2, which I guess is like being a double secret atotorney

Xxxp sometimes i go to happy hour with lawyers and they are all very bad at drinking and don't eat first and get very drunk it is not pretty. but several have dogs so there is that

Taking back my endorsement of the Board Attorney title.

hurting's a 2, too. it's a lawyer thing.

"Daniel, who has earned not only the titles of both attorney and lawyer, but that of esquire, knows from whence he speaks"

Yeah, I've done the same and remain in good standing.

Not that I'm advising anyone to do so, but point me to the bar regulation or disciplinary proceeding that says you can't call yourself a "lawyer" in a social situation, or that someone else can't do so in many other contexts.

Since when do we delimit the meaning of words to either their advisable usage as self-descriptors - where would that leave the meaning of "pedant," for instance? - or to attempted restrictions on their commercial abuse by self-regulatory professional associations? To step outside the legal context, should medical students not call their Professors "Doctor" if they don't have M.D.s let alone board licenses (as is true of a good many)? What about Classics professors? Should we prosecute Dr. John for fraud?

v unchill post imo

Yes xp

(of course, that gets into the side debate about the meaning of "doctor," which we've come to use to refer to doctors of medicine probably because those are the only doctoral recipients most members of the public encounter(ed))

"v unchill post imo"

Socratic Method not generally known for its chillness

this all sounds like a racket, a lousy racket

Abraham Lincoln, who attended school for less than a year, became a lawyer under an Illinois law enacted in 1833. This law stated that to be a lawyer someone had to "obtain a certificate procured from the court of an Illinois county certifying to the applicant's good moral character." Lincoln actually went to the Illinois Supreme Court to get his certificate. On September 9, 1836, a license to practice law was issued to Abraham Lincoln by two of the justices of the Illinois Supreme Court. Later, in a more formal session, on March 1, 1837, Lincoln appeared before the clerk of the Illinois Supreme Court and took an oath to support the Constitution of the United States and of Illinois. Lincoln swore he would "in all things faithfully execute the duties of Attorney and Counselor at Law." Lincoln was then formally enrolled as an attorney licensed to practice law in all the courts of the state of Illinois.

Since when do we delimit the meaning of words to either their advisable usage as self-descriptors - where would that leave the meaning of "pedant," for instance? - or to attempted restrictions on their commercial abuse by self-regulatory professional associations? To step outside the legal context, should medical students not call their Professors "Doctor" if they don't have M.D.s let alone board licenses (as is true of a good many)? What about Classics professors? Should we prosecute Dr. John for fraud?

― benbbag, Tuesday, October 21, 2014 10:55 PM (14 minutes ago)

there are plenty of laws that regulate what you can call yourself, though no, not in social situations. i have a doctorate degree but vermont prohibits me from having "dr" on my name badge or elsewhere in my place of work unless i explicitly specify that i am not a physician

hurting's a 2, too. it's a lawyer thing.

― Daniel, Esq 2, Tuesday, October 21, 2014 10:51 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

esquire esquared

benbbag's posts suggest to me that he is both lawyer and attorney

he knows from whence he speaks

"there are plenty of laws that regulate what you can call yourself, though no, not in social situations. i have a doctorate degree but vermont prohibits me from having "dr" on my name badge or elsewhere in my place of work unless i explicitly specify that i am not a physician"

sure. these are essentially (negative) informational regulations that are concerned with the reliance of those who are not making fine distinctions.

xpost - oh Hurting, do you not know who i is?

"whence"

lawyer located

ur all just a bunch of lawyers

xp, oh, no I don't know

earl warren?

i was gonna guess david boies

joseph m. proskauer? (this is my favorite guess, for personal reasons)

or maybe marty lipton

lol.

http://www.anagrammer.com/

benbbag how did you like Chicago

oh lol I got it instantly when I saw that url

sup ben

tbf, I've never actually met you irl and still don't know that you are not, in fact, david boies

You can represent that you're David Boies at a party under the First Amendment

Thanks. You can be Flexner if you want.

One of my kids has dyslexia and David Boies always shows up as one of the top Successful People With Dyslexia.

"or maybe marty lipton"

that one's particularly ironic, though not for a reason anyone here would assume

"benbbag how did you like Chicago"

"who dis"? Chicago is a fine city that I have greatly enjoyed more than once in the summertime and never visited in other seasons.

are you Louis Brandeis?

No, but I did walk past his high school en route to piano (and, later, guitar) lessons as a kid.

walked past it, or went into it, because you were in high school, attending it, because you are Louis Brandeis

that's pretty impressive to have the school named after you while you attend it that hardly ever happens you must have been really good at sports or something.

captain of the law team

I'm surprised no one thought to consult the expert

http://www.formsofaddress.info/_images//Banner_qwery.jpg

I am an attorney and I do not use Esq. following my surname. Although I am a practicing attorney (with many professional accolades from my peers), it strikes me that to insert the Esq. would project an aura of self-importance I do not feel.
-- Robert Simpson

One of my kids has dyslexia and David Boies always shows up as one of the top Successful People With Dyslexia.

Must be the different colored eyes, right? Ziggy was always good at blending gender and culture, so it makes sense.

I only use "esq." in situations where it is helpful to denote that I am a lawyer as opposed to a paralegal or assistant or smoething, e.g. if I send an e-mail to people who don't know me at another firm and have "esq." in my signature, that means they know they can contact me about certain things that they might not contact a paralegal about.

like where to purchase the best cocaine, whether a good watch should have a Seal of Geneva or not.

I know too many lawyers.

I know, too many lawyers.

Ima paralegal do I win anything

I only use "esq." in situations where it is helpful to denote that I am a lawyer

i have "esq." tattooed on my forehead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1ndS-KotLo

little known fact: ESQ stands for Extra Special Quarreler

i thought it stood for Every Shithead Qualifies.

(there are too many lawyers imo)

this esq thing i never heard of before, in england it is just a courtesy that you might occasionally see used by an 80 year old retired company director and has no legal connotations

sometimes makes me think of esquivel

in england it is just a courtesy that you might occasionally see used by an 80 year old retired company director

that's me.

yeah i thought the second part of you displayname was just otiose

-- daniel, otiose 2.

sometimes makes me think of esquivel

That's me.

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=49387316

I always want their to be a verb "to attorn," like that's what attorneys do. Is there?

There is!

at·torn

/əˈtərn/

verb
Law

verb: attorn; 3rd person present: attorns; past tense: attorned; past participle: attorned; gerund or present participle: attorning

formally make or acknowledge a transfer of something.

•archaic
transfer (something) to someone else.

After all these years still don't feel totally clear on the difference between a barrister and solicitor.

Theodor Attorno
/rejected Hurting screenname

barristers work inside the starbucks and solicitors work in front of the starbucks iirc.

mary kay l'attorno

The Attorno Return

domo arigato, mr. attorno.

Attorno the Screw.