'Sometimes I wanna but I can't afford you' - Winter 2014 Gay Thread

a Stones quote to start the season.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/frt_f0eP_Hs/hqdefault.jpg

another thing abt aforementioned dude on the last thread is that his pits smell absolutely incredible

vmic

lol i think i might know who that is!

Please direct me to dudes with pits that smell like flowers.

feeling this title.

Good old lavender pits.

http://worldoftop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/41iFP19nxXL.jpg

I may need to chase down some tatted pits guy soon

guys donna rouge knows who this dude is. wtf.

you gave too many clues

the pits of the sugarplum fairy

merry merry y'all

guys it's winter 2015 what did we do

barfed

i am engaged....!!

elmo!!!!!!!! congrats. that is so cool.

wow! congrats!

congratulations!

http://www.dallasvoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Cake2.jpg

woo!

many happy returns!

!!!! wow congrats!

congrats, sailor!

thanks guys! we havent exactly decided what this will mean for us in practical legal terms but i figured 7 years together calls for some ceremony

eating rainbow cake!

"calls for some ceremony" <3

quick version: i proposed in the titian room of the isabella stewart gardner museum in boston, at a window overlooking the central courtyard. the ring was this huge gnarly vintage silver piece set with rosewood and garnet. it happened pretty quickly; i didn't kneel. then we went out & celebrated with oysters & champagne.

i'm realizing i should have bought a ring for myself as well but i didnt think it through that far

adorable

(isg museum is amazing!!! btw)

aww! were there a lot of ppl around?

i read a gardner bio a few years ago, she was a total fruit fly and would've undoubtedly approved of yr impending union

what do you feel are its highlights? xp

happiness to u and yr sailor, elmo

the central courtyard / statuary garden is really breathtaking; there are impressive collections of classical & medieval & renaissance art. i was particularly impressed with the tapestries: they were just immense, so deeply detailed, and so many of them. I was just overwhelmed by the number of working hours each of them represented. The room I proposed in has titian's rape of europa, which is a real spectacle. plus so many furnishings & architectural elements & assorted decorative arts & other textiles. For a museum it's very moody & dark & labyrinthine, which I also enjoyed.

oh, and some great js sargent pieces too, of course.

art history isnt really my thing obviously but its a real treasure of a museum, recommended for sure

<3 titian and sargent

still planning to go to the Bathsalts "drag show for fuckups" tonight HEY I WONDER IF ANYONE ELSE WILL

It was p good...

Joseph Gordon-Levitt got married eh. Let's think about all the flexibility his bride is enjoying in their conjugal bed.

he didn't marry Louis Garrel?

celebs

blebs

Congrats Elmo! I forget if I said that in Twitter yet or not but yeah. Mazal tov to the extreme.

hi guys! it's been too long. i'm sorry. elmo, congratulations!!!!! that is truly amazing. i actually came online because i have a bit of a problem. i don't mean to be a foulweather friend or anything, just a little worried about something. i haven't had an HIV test in a couple of years. i think during that time, i've had one or two experiences that weren't exactly ... the safest. not like, bad - but just, you know, one of those nights. drunk goggles sort of thing. i should have known better than to do anything that wasn't completely protected but, well, what's done is done. now i have to get a test. and i just ... can't imagine anything worse. do they give you the results right away? eek. sorry to hijack the thread with this, i just needed to vent. ugh, hindsight.

The last time I had one (6-7 years ago), I had to wait a week for my results.

all of mine have been rapid, w/ like a 20 minute wait

surm, what did you and JGL do?

well, i don't usually "go all the way." and sometimes, when i do, i like, forget what to do. so, that's what i (didn't) do.

in other news i'm also busy trying to lose 20 pounds and succeeding. weeeeeee hunger! and whiskey.

There's a whiskey diet?

I was being selfish and wounded the last month and that's my pitiful excuse, Elmo, for not wishing you congrats like a decent person would.

Belatedly, I wish you guys the best.

Congrats Elmo!

Me and my bf spent two weeks straight with the other couple. We cooked huge meals and hung with each others' friends and listened to records for days and went to the gym and it never once felt like anything was overstayed or negative. I have insane currents of desire that I am gonna need an amazing therapist to help me through. Other than that, there is some hand-wringing about distance and some plans to buy a king-size bed

thank you again, everyone. we still haven't made a big public announcement or told any of our families yet... taking our time and telling friends privately, which is less stressful, it seems.

strangely enough, my dad proposed to his (female) partner (& mother of my siblings) 2 days before i proposed to d. (i.e. on Christmas day) so we're gonna take our time breaking the news. the weird part of this is that they apparently have NEVER told their kids (my youngest sibs, 6 & 9 years old) that they aren't already married. like, the kids just think their parents are married and nobody bothered to correct that assumption. which stikes me as some supremely fucked up & needless secret to keep from your children. but then i remember it's my family & i'm like, oh right... right, of course...

btw, surm! get tested please! ok thank you

fgti i am curious to the point of intrusive rudeness about the emotional logistics of your quartet but i will reserve my questions, for now

"emotional logistics" reminds me of "jumbo shrimp"

seconding elmo, get tested!!

so hi guys. i uh haven't posted very much in the last year. things feel weird and sea change-y right now. not in especially good ways or bad ways, but "just is" ways. but that which is stable and constant in my life right now is for the most part wonderful. i rang in 2015 with a huge group of mostly queer ppl (and some close str8 pals) and it felt really great and beautiful to be in that room at midnight. otoh i am also feeling distant from other people in my life and it's kind of distressing. holidays in general are distressing.

also since it's come up a lot lately i wanna say stuff about open r'ships but...i'm not sure what, exactly.

Love intrusive questions I'm all about them. I had dinner with a friend and asked her if I could ask her an intrusive question and it was "do you still eat paper?" and then we shared all our respective pica tendencies

congrats elmo! i didn't see your news til now.

and hoping things turn out fine for surm!

meanwhile, i successfully cooked a meal for my boyfriend that only involved two minor meltdowns and actually came out delicious. it was this http://www.dinnerdocument.com/post/92429853689/aubergine-and-minced-lamb-with-cinnamon-with

fgti, i guess i'm just curious about how it's structured, to put it vaguely. so, you've narrated this romance so far as two previously established couples entering into a relationship, but i guess i'm curious if it behaves as such -- that each person in the relationship has an established 'primary' partner, plus a connection with the other couple -- or if it is more atomized / decentralized than that? obviously there are many connections to be forged between all participants, both as a group and between individuals, but are those connections prioritized in some way? are there ground rules for this?

dustin & i have talked, purely hypothetically so far, about opening the relationship to other sex partners, but polyamorous relationships are of a different order, it seems. like, the amount of communication required to navigate a 2-person relationship is already substantial imho and the thought of multiplying that by a factor or 2 or 3 is just wild to me.

had what was supposed to be just a quick/immediate sex thing w/ this dude from Scruff on Sunday night (it was rly, rly good fyi) but we've been talking all day every day since then and he's a poetry professor and has 2 nose rings and is just really charming and sweet and I'm trying really hard not to get ~feelings~ but idk! We made plans for dinner and a movie soon so that's nice.

― y kant max read (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, December 24, 2014 8:28 AM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so I wound up getting some ~feelings~ anyway. Plans for dinner + movie fell through at the last minute (like 6:30pm on the day we planned to hang out); there was a vague promise to reschedule that was never followed through with, chats became less and less frequent, etc. I don't get it; he really seemed to like me back and I tried pretty hard to be cool and chill abt it and then he just sort of stopped initiating conversations w/ me and would give positive but ultimately unengaged responses when I tried to start ones w/ him.

just really, really fucking frustrated about the whole thing.

impulsively hooked up last-minute with a dude last night that I was only sort of into and the sex was just okay and ultimately bummed me out and I woke up with "Fuck and Run" stuck in my head and I walked alone through center city Philly to my bus stop drinking a coffee in the freezing cold and I felt like a dumb character in an Andrew Haigh film or something which kind of made me lol.

there's always a million things that might be going on behind a pleasant hookup that could preempt repeat business. It's probably not to do with you, m'dear. xo

(i am considering another Philly visit for MLK weekend if u are around)

so I wound up getting some ~feelings~ anyway. Plans for dinner + movie fell through at the last minute (like 6:30pm on the day we planned to hang out); there was a vague promise to reschedule that was never followed through with, chats became less and less frequent, etc. I don't get it; he really seemed to like me back and I tried pretty hard to be cool and chill abt it and then he just sort of stopped initiating conversations w/ me and would give positive but ultimately unengaged responses when I tried to start ones w/ him.

It's the experiences I've had like this that make me always default to "this is way more trouble than it's worth" mode.

i mean just like

don't fucking call me cute nicknames and hold me and kiss the back of my neck and and text me pictures of you making pie and all of this dumb unguarded cute friendship shit and then make plans w/ me if you're not going to fucking follow through. This is such a dick move imo.

That's the way the last guy was with me up until it just ... stopped.

Wow, that is beyond my specific experience. Sorry fellas.

Don't give up on the dude Stevie, it's possible he's just in work mode or w/e, THAT SAID just ride it out, wait for him to reinitiate, don't let what was a beautiful thing end in a protracted pain buffet

@ patron sailor, I feel like I've found a new best friend, or a brother, and intimacy-wise it's like we're swapping spouses. Our relationships are very similar so there is a hilarious simulacrum going on.

i mean just like

don't fucking call me cute nicknames and hold me and kiss the back of my neck and and text me pictures of you making pie and all of this dumb unguarded cute friendship shit and then make plans w/ me if you're not going to fucking follow through.

oh god

also I'm so flabbergasted to read that lex is cooking food and enjoying it enough to post about it that I can't decide whether to send a box of my favourite recipes or buy a lottery ticket

i'm sorry about dude, steve. it's always tough having feelings for someone who doesnt reciprocate but it's downright awful for him to play into that dynamic. i do think there are guys who get off on emotional conquest, who want to prove to themselves they can charm you & win you over. but surprise! have no real interest or intention of fostering a sincere connection or being vulnerable themselves. forget that dude.

i do think there are guys who get off on emotional conquest, who want to prove to themselves they can charm you & win you over. but surprise! have no real interest or intention of fostering a sincere connection or being vulnerable themselves.

Yup. I'd rather be an ice queen than one of those guys.

sorry to hear all that stevie. can count on more than one hand the times that's happened to me

btw thanks for answering my question fgti, i'd welcome all the lurid details you can spare but youve slaked my general curiosity

Sharing here because the title of this old thread:

"Nothing out of our loins, Sweetie, will ever see the light of day!" Gay, Homo and Queer for Spring 2013

...refers to the Shockheaded Peters' "I Bloodbrother Be" and all, and in the last couple of weeks the director uploaded the video that was made for it, which apparently was barely seen at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MisfJux-dek

!!!!!

Thanks!!!

This was a nice read

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/09/freaking-out-about-age-gaps-in-gay-relationships-is-homophobic.html

heh, that article was unexpectedly relevant to me on Saturday...

haven't had someone in my nostrils for hours after parting in awhile.

What, did you smoke him?

after a fashion

He had a fag.

LOL, someone finally asked me to fool around on OKC.

well? get to it.

19. Not interested.

I responded to the first message with "Hey Nineteen," and he didn't get it.

I'm surprised you know a late '70s tune that wasn't spun at the Paradise Garage!

on a related note, if my med-student conquest wants a rerun, i might show him Duck Soup before or after the action.

well shit, it's the last night of the Piggy Bear party at the Eagle, and i'm exhausted.

19. Not interested.

― Vulvacura (Eric H.),

I think it would be fun to run a newspaper!

I am concerned that I have nobody to look up to, no homo seniors that I can say "a ha! that is the life I wish to work toward!" (any recommendations would be appreciated). The straight bourgeois fantasy is death "surrounded by one's great-grandchildren", I suppose. What about queers?

Let me invert your concern a bit*: have any my age-ish (36) or older queers found yourself in the position yet of playing "wise" elder to younger queer friends? I have one friendship like that kind of going on at the moment and its interesting in a surprisingly non-bad/ego-crushing way.

*which is, unfortunately, my way of saying that, no, I know of no homo seniors that I could or would look up to. This is a problem.

i like to think the advantage of growing up queer is to know that those kinds of fantasies about the life you're "supposed" to have are bullshit. i'd be fine with any number of what-could-bes though if pushed i would say that i would rather not be surrounded by children

I am concerned that I have nobody to look up to, no homo seniors that I can say "a ha! that is the life I wish to work toward!" (any recommendations would be appreciated).

Will send resumé soon.

Urban enclaves are family.

*embeds Sister Sledge clip*

And I'm using up every last penny of my retirement.

I had a long anecdotal story that I was gonna post but I
Decided to hold off until later, I don't want to sound like I'm disappointed in anybody
I'm not, I just am having trouble placing my life on a vector these days

Life is a long series of left swipes.

Lex otm of course

I think the problem is that when I'm surrounded by straight friends and their homes and children I am struck by "oh what meaning your lives have!"

(In contrast, when one of those friends threatens to fuck everything up and have an affair, I shake my head and *tsk tsk tsk* when will these breeders learn!)

But yeah, the number of non-miserable queer friends I have over 50 is limited to... two? (And both of them would probably say "we lived through AIDS, if you're looking for a role model go fuck yourself")

Ah fuck it. About four years ago I went to this party, well, more like a salon, hosted in this rich man's flat in Soho NYC. The man was a homosexual in his 50s and top of his field and even famous. I didn't know him previously, I was invited by one of my friends to perform and sing at the piano. The main crew of the party was a cabal of homos of similar age and affluence. They were all dashing and handsome and drinking and smoking and it was generally a fun time.

There was a kind of pattern I was noticing, that these men were, without exception, with younger men, some of them much younger. The friend who invited me, himself, was 45 at the time, and dating a 23-year old-- it didn't last longer than a month, ("he fell in love with me and I was like, *enh*"). The night went on and it never got raunchy but there was a definite leering quality to it that I hadn't experienced before, these men getting drunk with their young lovers. I had a cigarette on the balcony with a famous author and a famous aging gay pop star and they were talking about how a famous designer was telling them about how the designer employs the services of a famous pimp who is extremely discreet and just needs to be sent one's travel schedule and young men-for-hire will always appear at your hotel room.

At the time, all this activity seemed to me to be the byproduct of something that I myself would not possess. I don't have a surfeit of sexual energy, I don't make enough money to live in NYC, let alone Manhattan. I enjoyed the company of these men socially but I did not see myself in their place when I was their age.

But these days, years later, I'm like... what older homos DO I have to look up to?

Urban enclaves are family.

― Vulvacura (Eric H.), Thursday, January 22, 2015 2:47 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

never ever ever forget this

Most of my friends are straight and almost all have families by now; I'm the godfather of my best friend's kid. The advantage to being gay is the dilettantish way I dip in and out of their lives. I'm invited to the birthdays and Communions but I don't have to stay and no on expects me to, especially when the kid melts down into a teary puddle for the fourth time in 10 minutes.

I think the problem is that when I'm surrounded by straight friends and their homes and children I am struck by "oh what meaning your lives have!"

lol i'm not, i'm happy for them but seeing some of my friends - mostly my bf's friends, my own friends will never attain that kind of adulthood it seems - embark on this in the past year, i'm like, hoo boy am i glad i don't have to do this

i don't pretend to have a replacement "meaning" but i've never thought home, family etc constitutes "meaning"

The drive for something permanent persists, tho the gay disposition resists.

But yeah, the number of non-miserable queer friends I have over 50 is limited to... two? (And both of them would probably say "we lived through AIDS, if you're looking for a role model go fuck yourself")

well, we can carve our own path then. i don't see why we need role models for a fulfilling dotage when most of us got to a fulfilling adulthood without them

xp Sorry, trapped in a boring and useless work meeting.

I had a polite argument with an acquaintance on FB last Tuesday because he insisted – in 2015 – that "Grindr culture" was making "romance" impossible (he's, guess what, newly single after eight years). I told him to stop thinking romance and sex are a binary. Casual sex has always existed; Grindr has made it easier. I've met online wham-bam hookups, hookups that turned into boyfriends, boyfriends who turned into friends, and hookups who turned into friends. Part of what makes the gay experience thrilling is the acceptance of the slippery boundaries of friendship, sex, and romance, and, yeah, I do hope we "redefine" marriage as conservatives fear.

I do agree that urban enclave = family

...I am finding more and more of that urban enclave a) vanishing into child-rearing b) moving to larger city centres and/or suburbs c) disappearing into alcoholism.

xxxpost

Good point, lex. I made it to 36 *relatively* unscathed and with no queer guidance. Part of me can't help think, though, "would have been nice..."

most of us got to a fulfilling adulthood without them

Gonna hafta "sez who?" that one.

Part of what makes the gay experience thrilling is the acceptance of the slippery boundaries of friendship, sex, and romance, and, yeah, I do hope we "redefine" marriage as conservatives fear.

OTM

Yeah, the specter of alcoholism definitely looms. Every gay person I know over 50-ish I'm pretty sure I've never seen without a buzz.

you've seen me w/out one.

Urban enclaves are family.

i can't afford one.

Part of what makes the gay experience thrilling is the acceptance of the slippery boundaries of friendship, sex, and romance, and, yeah, I do hope we "redefine" marriage as conservatives fear.

i'm constantly trying to remind my bf of this -- we're free!

It is nice to look forward to a guilt-free sexual future. I think I'm just feeling disappointed that my current long-term goals are not much better than "getting into golf" (ski chalet, tomato greenhouse, or an olive orchard)

Part of what makes the gay experience thrilling is the acceptance of the slippery boundaries of friendship, sex, and romance, and, yeah, I do hope we "redefine" marriage as conservatives fear.

100%

...I am finding more and more of that urban enclave a) vanishing into child-rearing b) moving to larger city centres and/or suburbs c) disappearing into alcoholism.

― fgti, Thursday, January 22, 2015 2:59 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

more and more but by no means everyone. plenty of older str8 people who never had kids, maybe never coupled up, i feel like choosing that path will lead somewhere good

i feel like if i was going to be addicted to anything it would've shown by now, it was a great day when i realised i was a hedonist who will hopefully never stop enjoying the buzz and who will hopefully never be addicted to it

xp That was you SOBER?!

i would FAR rather get into golf than raise a family, what's wrong with that!

there are vast fields of life i would like to get into. i'm far more worried about my (lack of) ability to pay for them than whether that sort of life will be "meaningful"

So you guys are saying you bone all your gay friends because it's all a slippery, lubed slope?

I would love to run an olive orchard and eat of its fruit.

I'm saying the possibility of boning anyone should always remain a possibility.

I'm not particularly in the mood to ruin a bunch of friendships, is all. I'm far too loyal for that.

"anyone" is a little broad for me.

I've never really had entry, even for a night, into the type of SalonWorld (TM) fgti describes, but I've just begun hooking up (twice so far) w/ a 23-yo dude who's into me; it looks like a FWB thing until he gets fatigued. As the sets of men I find attractive and men who are into me have been mutually exclusive, well, forever, I'll take it, especially with my medical drama.

also i got thru AIDS by not having m2m sex til '88

and yes fuck a role model

Yeah! Well my point about SalonWorld was like, "I'm peeking into the world of jet-setting middle-aged homo land" and the denouement was using affluence to recreate a model of young hedonism. Maybe a touch more refined? But it was essentially a G-rated version of Mishima's "gei party".

It wasn't for me! I thought. Or maybe it was? It seems like I'm currently occupying that same space of pursuing hedonistic pleasure.

What I was saying about ski slopes and olive groves was meant to be a little ironic. I'm more interested in talking about "how should gay men be" on a social and sexual level. My friend Kurt has things where his social circle goes to the club and drinks tea and DJs on Sunday afternoons. That is probably closest to my idea of paradise. I like having people over for dinner twice a week.

I like having dinner twice a week.

I like digesting dinner twice a week.

Can we make it in the suburbs?

no thx, i served 20 years' time there.

btw i will be at the show next Thurs, fgti, and i was smart enough to take the next day off this time.

also on Topic A: nearly all men my age are paired off, dead, or crazy.

or are women

fuck the suburbs

Cool Stevie D is coming too I think? DM me if you want tickets. I'm excited I'm going to see JCM as Hedwig the previous day!

My friend from that road trip awhile back was talking with me yesterday, and we surmised that at least so far as dating goes, mid-30s is absolutely the worst time to be on the grindr grid. Tons of younger people, and a fair amount of older people, but it feels like almost all the people in our own age bracket are paired off and in the full bloom of the domestic phase.

Um my suburbs line was a tomæto tomāto joke

Honestly this weird existential mood I'm in has come from weird agey stuff. Usually I feel like age is this invisible thing, non-applicable. I have a functioning-in-most-ways body and its age is irrelevant. Since me and bf started seeing this younger couple, I'm no longer ageless-- I feel a definite sense of being "ten years their senior". I feel like I'm on a vector.

This is a fine thing tbh. But part of my own private-coping-mechanism with dealing with the age difference has been willing-to-actuality a stoic and mature countenance. Being a role model, you know? It's largely been good, it's been gently pushing me toward more positive headspaces, where I might've felt helpless and wallowy before. But it can be stressful too, especially when I don't have a clear idea of where I want to be in five, ten, thirty years, you know?

an idea is dubious enough, but "a clear idea" -- don't sweat it, sweets.

just want to say i'm sympathetic to your pov fgti and feel there's a validity there along with lex's points, they kind of intertwine imo. idk, it's complicated, but i think in general western society suffers from an inability to integrate homosexual experience into its connective tissue, not helped by the settling effects of age, and lgbt folks are the ones who tend to bear that suffering.

especially when I don't have a clear idea of where I want to be in five, ten, thirty years, you know?

yr certainly not alone here - i'm facing imminent joblessness and am currently straining to figure out my exit strategy (spoiler alert: i have LITERALLY NO IDEA)

i did have an older queer mentor when i first got to college - he was my first prof, and later my employer for three years, and now i consider him a good friend (altho i can't handle his FB presence for various reasons). it was through him that i gained my first exposure to ACT/UP+Queer Nation, foucault, wojnarowicz, opera, etc., and i met a handful of the downtown nyc intelligentsia (ugh sorry kill me) when i worked for him, which is probably the closest i've ever come to accessing the iteration of SalonWorld that fgti describes. (when i lived in nyc i was sort of on the periphery of a more age-contemporary SalonWorld filled with Up-and-Coming Young Queer Artists but i constantly felt alienated from it because i'm not an artist myself.) anyway, i really did learn a lot from him, about queer rage and aesthetics especially, though now i'm older i often greatly differ from him about a lot of things.

said mentor lives in a beautiful suburb of nj in a house he owns with his partner of 30+ years, cute dog, pipe organ (!), well-tended garden, perpetually well-stocked kitchen of my dreams, etc. i'm 30 now and living with my boyfriend (who is ten years older than me) and we are very domestic and have friends over for dinner and such but the exact life my mentor has seems increasingly like a fantasy to me, even though i'm living certain aspects of it now i guess. (having grown up in suburban nj i would like very much to never, ever, ever find myself living there again.) neither of us has any interest in kids or marriage and our relationship is semi-open and our social circle at its broadest engenders radqueers and square str8s and everyone in-between but our world is still bounded by certain aspirational markers - we'd like to one day have a dog and a yard and a le creuset dutch oven and all that boring stuff, and i'm sure the motivation to acquire those things in some small part owes to that mentorship i received.

as i've gotten older though i find myself less enchanted by the idea of a hermetic SalonWorld where we are all Worldly Jet-Setting (i.e. Rich) Homos Who Have Really Nice Apartments And Sexy Paramours Half Our Age (Not That There's Anything Inherently Wrong With That) while also vaguely fantasizing about starting some scaled-down SW of my own but i have no idea how to even invest in something like that, other than...keep having friends over for dinner? anyway, the point of all this being: i am for the x-generational transmission of queer arcana via mentorship and i also support drawing yr own maps, especially if the map you've been given was sketched out by white men who make more money in a year than you'll ever see in your own lifetime

Making my day, matt, Donna, thank you. Trying not to be outright critical of famous rich homos bc who cares? Let them eat cake etc., but more like "what model is this"

hi DR! Good luck on everything dear, miss you.

wow, dr, thanks for sharing.

i agree with / relate to so much of that.

always be starting your own salonworld

shit, knew i should trademark that

can't be tm-ed, it's the circle of queer

life

i feel like MONEY is really key to all this; to an extent my "what will be, will be" is borne out of economic necessity. and obviously that's the industry i've gotten into but it's also a generational thing.

yeah, i sort of elided that point in my spiel above but capital (social and otherwise) is definitely the major access point/barrier to whichever worlds you circulate through, for sure

i feel the importance of money dissipating for me, personally, as it increasingly reveals itself to be a shell game that is destroying the planet and, more pragmatically, is something i realize just doesn't bring me happiness like it might others. i mean obviously we all need to make a living somehow, and i'm concerned about it to the extent that i am able to be fed, clothed, sheltered and able to access relatively profit-neutral beauty, knowledge, etc., but the amount it takes to do this feels less and less like some sort of future goal and more like what i have now, without my income really changing.

aware that i have a full-time job with benefits and am speaking from a privileged position in that regard, increasingly bothered by how many people are being pushed below a certain point of access.

and hope things work out well for you, dr, best.

What I liked about the movie Love is Strange is how swiftly it dispelled the suspicion that gays own waterfront lofts and maintain tax shelters.

Be the salon you want to see in the world

urban enclaves are TOTALLY family even if you have partnered and have a family of your own and your family-of-origin isn't totally fucked. you need that connection, i know i do

45 at the time, and dating a 23-year old-- it didn't last longer than a month, ("he fell in love with me and I was like, *enh*").

I just feel like there's a whole thread to be had at some point where FGTI and I are gonna hash out age differences and power imbalances in relationships and dating 'fans' and all that which is never actually going to happen because everyone else around us would blow up into an ugly clusterfuck.

But this particular sentence just hit me particularly hard because this is a situation I got kinda entangled in (except my life isn't particularly fabulous and salon-y, it just looks that way to some people I guess?) and up until this past week I would have argued there was nothing problematic because ~queer relationships are somehow magically excused the power imbalances caused solely by heteronormativity etc etc blah blah bullshit and so on~ but this week this situation kinda collapsed into awfulness and I guess ugh. :(

I wanted to say this earlier but:

i feel the importance of money dissipating for me, personally, as it increasingly reveals itself to be a shell game that is destroying the planet and, more pragmatically, is something i realize just doesn't bring me happiness like it might others.

This is exactly what I mean. I own two pairs of pants and have a Y membership and my idea of indulgence is a nice melon and the expensive almonds.

This week I've been reflecting on what I typed and I think it's the product of "being away from home for so long", my social environment has become almost entirely digital and so it's easy for me to lose sight lose faith lose hope <3 on you guys tho

Hi Branwell!!-- yes this is something I'd be eager to talk about also. I've had two longish relationships with older lovers. Both lasted two years and there was a 10+ year age gap... one was a woman, one was a man. I'm still close with both people, love them a lot. At the time never felt like there was anything weird or strange about being a student who lived with and slept with an older professional. I never felt any judgement from their older social circles, nor they from mine, they were just... good relationships.

Now that I'm old enough to have twice experienced the ~crazy feeling~ of having an affair a lover who is younger, I am aware that there is and was an immense power structure at play. I didn't realize it when I was the younger person.

I can't describe the feeling other than "having a younger lover remind you that you ~are~ a desirable and functioning human can be the most powerful feeling in the world and can eclipse all reasonable action and destroy your marriage/family/long-term relationship". The film "I Am Love", it suggested to me that the things that 'weird love' could destroy, whether that love was the intergenerational love of matriarch/young chef (or the queer love of daughter/Angharad), those things were essentially worth destroying.

On one hand it makes me feel sympathetic? wrong word. Supportive? I dunno. Something that means "a state of passive approval, more likely to give a high five than purse my lips". It makes me feel "ok" with seeing weird relationships like aforementioned "attractive 45-year old who dates men in their 20s", makes me less judgey about hearing about "daddy seeks younger" listings on Grindr.

What I was and am concerned with, insofar as SalonWorld is concerned, is that the exploitation of that power, for the purpose of taking younger lovers, might be, for some, the only purpose of acquiring that power. Does that make sense?

Also, I hope you'll share your past week's experiences if you feel comfortable

Sorry if this is gross, but last night I decided to check out (for the first time -- honest) to see if I've gotten a climber's back.

http://k2.okccdn.com/php/load_okc_image.php/images/150x150/558x800/0x0/917x917/0/16401961211276938568.jpeg

Probably should boulder a little bit more ...

strong lower back imo! (didn't know climbing did that.)

also just fyi

http://belfiestick.com/img/bf_header.jpg

And I just used up all my xmas cash.

Thanks, FGTI, but I'm not sure that this is an appropriate place to go into details of the past month. There is a certain amount of {insert complicated German word meaning someone getting a taste of their own medicine} in my trying to have a relationship with someone intent on liveblogging, subtweeting, writing songs about and even drawing pictures of every aspect of that relationship. It's the kind of thing I would have thought was ~true love~ when I was younger, but now, after 2 years of therapy to learn how to establish boundaries and keep some aspects of my feelings private and for myself, it's just... weird. Not necessarily bad, and I'm not passing judgement on them for doing it. Just... weird. So I don't know how I can feel uncomfortable with what this person has been doing, and talk in detail on ILX! It's complicated!

Your relationships with older folks sound wonderful! And healthy! And like they were generally positive experiences for you and your lovers.

When I was younger, and it was usually much older men hitting on me, the whole dynamic just seemed gross. Like, it was so obviously a power play, and they were not interested in me (or other young people) as persons, they were just interested in Youth and the possessing of it, and the kind of shiny newness where you're presumed to know nothing and just be an empty vessel to be filled up with their glorious older-man Knowledge that they will impart to you.

Except, in practice, it's much more complicated than that. Speaking with this person, I constantly felt like an ancient, out-of-touch ancient-thing because I did not know all these sorts of Young Person things (Tumblr etiquette, Lana Del Rey lyrics, obscure points of current queer terminology). While at the same time, feeling expected to be some kind of ancient sage and provide advice and Worlds Of Yore about things that I had done, and this Young Person had never experienced and was asking me about. And yet hating myself, even as I was giving Old Person Advice and knowing it's probably not even useful for this person, I'm just talking to a past self. It's tricky, the power dynamics involved when you have been on both your side of the table, and the other side of the table, and so can see from both sides, while the other person has only ever been on their own side of the table, and lacks the maturity or the experience to understand that the view from the other side of the table is just *different*. Not better or worse, just different.

The feelings of aspirant Young Persons towards more successful Old Persons can be huge and complicated, and full of weird, but they are also *real* feelings. The fan who wants to fuck the idol. The aspirant Young Person who sees the successful persons of salonworld as glittering prizes to be attained. Wow! This Important Person wants to fuck me! There is, in some cases, a flattery in seeing oneself as the kind of person that can attract Important People; in other cases it's more of that kind of crush where one wants to *be* the other person. To take advantage of those kinds of situations as an Older Person, in an extorting, exploitative sort of way is really very gross. But that view also presumes that a Younger Person's desire to attract the attentions of an Older is either illegitimate (groupie! gold-digger!) or else non-existent. True, what is desired is often an ideal, a crush, a desire to 'be like that person' as opposed to a desire for actual hoary flesh? And the jaded older individuals who think that because *some* younger persons desire them in that way, that all younger persons are just a smorgasboard to be enjoyed, regardless of consent. Ugh.

I suppose the point is, that I didn't like *myself* when engaging in it. I felt creepy, and exploitative, and was constantly aware of a need for myself, as the older person and supposedly more mature, to keep an eye on the power dynamics and police mine own behaviour. (Which, a) angered the other person, as they felt I was not taking them seriously or b) the other person read this as a censure on *their* behaviour, rather the truth that it was mine own.)

I guess there is no 'outside' to power. We could both of us try to step outside gender, but power dynamics still infect everything. I wish I found it as intoxicating and ego-supporting as you describe. Ultimately, I didn't.

Sorry for massive ~FEELINGSPOST~. I think you were probably talking about something quite different and I just barged in here, go on, you can purse your lips at that, at least. :{}

Those don't look like pursed lips, do they? Oh well.

ERIC you look amazing!!

Branwell thanks for sharing!

So I don't know how I can feel uncomfortable with what this person has been doing, and talk in detail on ILX! It's complicated!

Same here! That said, your post is super valuable and insightful and I'm glad to have read it. I can't respond in detail today but I'll think more about it.

wow, thanks for that post, branwell. this especially:

The feelings of aspirant Young Persons towards more successful Old Persons can be huge and complicated, and full of weird, but they are also *real* feelings. The fan who wants to fuck the idol. The aspirant Young Person who sees the successful persons of salonworld as glittering prizes to be attained. Wow! This Important Person wants to fuck me! There is, in some cases, a flattery in seeing oneself as the kind of person that can attract Important People; in other cases it's more of that kind of crush where one wants to *be* the other person. To take advantage of those kinds of situations as an Older Person, in an extorting, exploitative sort of way is really very gross. But that view also presumes that a Younger Person's desire to attract the attentions of an Older is either illegitimate (groupie! gold-digger!) or else non-existent. True, what is desired is often an ideal, a crush, a desire to 'be like that person' as opposed to a desire for actual hoary flesh? And the jaded older individuals who think that because *some* younger persons desire them in that way, that all younger persons are just a smorgasboard to be enjoyed, regardless of consent. Ugh.

i've nothing insightful to add except that much of this para really hits home for me.

ERIC you look amazing!!

― fgti, Sunday, January 25, 2015 12:20 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

man i have like 100 posts to catch up on here

Me too!

fgti, hope there is a window for you to arrive in NY after Snowpocalypse.

(u2 Stevie)

ugh god i'm coming up thursday afternoon, we'll see what happens

I think you should be OK? If we're getting *28 inches* by Tuesday dusk, that's 48 hours for everyone to dig. :(

My show will be fine. But I... spent a mint on Hedwig tix ("yes, that's what a Broadway show costs" I'm told? I have no idea, I've never seen a musical before.) And it seems I will almost certainly be missing it, thanks for nothing snowface

yeah, that snowblows.

I have my fingers crossed for my thirsday travel plans to stay unfucked

if it was like $100-300, yes, that's what a Broadway show costs.

talk about Open Wallet, eh?

NYC barely got 6 inches, so get your ass to Hedwig!

https://twitter.com/noahmichelson/status/560081803135184896

(also SD, get in touch if you want to have dinner Thursday)

I paid $85 for Hedwig tix (orchestra, row L) but that was from tkts, the day before the performance.

I'm coming after all, hoorayyyyyy, Hedwig it is

Been thinking about Branwell's post a lot, and:

Speaking with this person, I constantly felt like an ancient, out-of-touch ancient-thing because I did not know all these sorts of Young Person things (Tumblr etiquette, Lana Del Rey lyrics, obscure points of current queer terminology). While at the same time, feeling expected to be some kind of ancient sage and provide advice and Worlds Of Yore about things that I had done, and this Young Person had never experienced and was asking me about. And yet hating myself, even as I was giving Old Person Advice and knowing it's probably not even useful for this person, I'm just talking to a past self.

All this definitely rings true to me! I had a strange and awful moment of looking at young couple's respective Tumblrs and Facebook photos and ~wishing~ I'd had had those things in my early 20s. That their good times were so much better documented than mine. (Then I went through my own hard copy photo collection from that period and remembered that those documents, as "good times" as they might appear to another, form a far more complicated narrative to the subject.)

The fan who wants to fuck the idol. The aspirant Young Person who sees the successful persons of salonworld as glittering prizes to be attained. Wow! This Important Person wants to fuck me! There is, in some cases, a flattery in seeing oneself as the kind of person that can attract Important People; in other cases it's more of that kind of crush where one wants to *be* the other person.

I don't think these power dynamics are confined to age-disparate relationships, though. I am constantly hearing of people breaking up with each other because of differing levels of ambition. And certainly I've developed crushes on contemporary colleagues for this very reason, a desire to be a part of their life. I know people (all New Yorkers, ha) who navigate their social lives entirely this way, focusing their energies on the most important people in the room. Certainly I cop to behaving like this at least once (and feeling terrible afterward). But yeah I can see this as being especially something that is true in age-disparate situations.

True, what is desired is often an ideal, a crush, a desire to 'be like that person' as opposed to a desire for actual hoary flesh? And the jaded older individuals who think that because *some* younger persons desire them in that way, that all younger persons are just a smorgasboard to be enjoyed, regardless of consent. Ugh.

And this is where I start to diverge from your way of thinking. "Desirability" does not need to be confined to the realm of the flesh. What you're describing as a "power dynamic" is to me just "things that are attractive in other people". I think there's a vast gulf between what you or I have experienced, and what I saw in SalonWorld, and the Bryan Singer stories, to actual cases of abuse-of-power. As for "hoary flesh", I don't think that applies to either of us or anyone here. As my body and the body of my bf get older and I find my head turning to check out proportionally older and older men. That may be the case for everyone, but it's a particular privilege that I feel I have in my long-term relationship, that I have a partner in body-deterioration

Thanks for the reply, fgti. But this is one of those situations where I'm just reminded, yet again, of the vast, disparity and gulf in the experiences of "people that inhabit male-coded bodies" and "people that inhabit female-coded bodies." Even though the experiences of gay men are *more* similar to women than those of str8 men, ageing and desire, they are still nothing like the same.

Maybe that is different for queer ppl in female bodies. I won't find out on ILX because of that whole: "all of the queers are men; all of the women are (or at least pass for) str8" dynamic.

And I use "power dynamic" rather than "desire" because in many situations, desire is a form of power, and power *is* a thing which can create desire in its wake, with regards to some bodies. (In heteronormative world, Power is often seen as masculinising and ugly-ifying, when held in the hands of female-bodied people.)

Oh well, it's been interesting to talk about it, and to hear your thoughts and experiences.

hurrah

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2015/01/act-up-to-protest-hrc-gala-in-nyc.html

@ Branwell, that is true. I've reallllly wanted to talk to my ex-gf about the experience of our relationship, specifically with regards to her feelings about her body and the age difference, but any time I think of broaching the subject I start to question the value (for her) of such a discussion (none).

i'm in a situation and i don't really know if it's weird and inappropriate that this thing is happening or if i'm just being weird in thinking that it's inappropriate so i would appreciate some advice.

i was going out with this fella, X, for about five years but it ended five years or so ago when he dumped me. In spite of the dumping i still wanted to be friends with him, since friends was basically what we were by the end of that period anyway. After a few years of sometimes good, sometimes cagey friendship he eventually met someone else, M, which hurt me a lot and it was like we were breaking up again for real and made me realise that we perhaps shouldn't have tried to maintain a friendship after all, that it was a fools errand. its clear that S knows I was hurt again to. So now he's loved up with this guy and i really, in spite of the perhaps irrational hurt, wish him happiness with M.

as you may or may not know i run a club - a gay dance party -with another friend, S, which is successful but in a fairly low key way. the capacity of the club is only 150 but everyone who comes is quite passionate about it. we routinely turn away 50-80 people each month because we have reached capacity. the next one is on the 14th of february which, of course, is valentines day but S and I started the facebook page for the event without mentioning V day because we both feel that it's bullshit and that it makes single or lonely people feel worse to have a big V day party so this was just one of our regular monthly events. As it so happens X's birthday is on the 14th and, strangely, so is the new boyfriend M's - or maybe his is the day before or after, i can't tell. Anyway they start a facebook event for their joint birthday party/V day which starts at a bar nearby and ends up at my club (!). their fb invite page reads:

S is turning 32. M is turning 28.
Come celebrate with us both on Saturday 14th February... especially if you don't have a date for Valentines Day!
Drinks at ____; 8.00pm - 10.00pm (big table reserved)
Hot Mess at The Poetry Club; 10.00pm - 02.00am (£6 entry)
Hope to see you all there! x

I consider this my space and my night but everyone who comes is part of it and welcomed and it's great but is this completely weird and rude/inappropriate or am I overreacting? The thing is that 45 people so far have accepted the invite to THEIR party at MY club with a capacity of 150 ...but i don't let groups of 45 into the club or 20 or even 10. I consider 4-6 people to be the maximum size of group that I would admit, it's actually what makes the night good and is pretty standard door policy at any good club worldwide. big groups makes clubs worse for everyone else there, right? that's why i turn away groups of 6 or more from the club. If a friend was having a special night i might extend that to 8 or 10 at an absolute push. So now I don't know how to broach this because if i send an email it will seem like i've been thinking too much about it (which i really have!) and if i speak to him about it face to face i'll get upset and seem irrational, he already things i'm crazy, but i can't just let it slide nor can i turn them away at the door on the night itself (can i?) since the club is far from any other bars and clubs in fact it's in a railway arch at the back of an industrial estate.

sorry about the length of this but if you did read it - thanks and i'd appreciate advice. the whole thing is upsetting me quite a bit.

btw, 'I don't know what it is to take anything calmly.' TENNESSEE WILLIAMS

Hmm, this is weird--what sucks is even if you were to say something/turn them away based solely on what sound like very reasonable/standard rules for a club, the perception may be that you are being petty. Still, he has to be at least somewhat aware that these are club standards, right? Man, I don't envy you here.

maybe get the co-runner to send an email? might come off more businesslike - def awkward for you to have to do it. tbh you're doing them a favour bc if the club's at capacity they'll only get turned away anyway. isn't it ticketed tho? like if the tkts have run out then those 45 people can't come...

no precise advice, jed, but it sounds like just letting this be might be the least-worst solution. :/ I applaud your V Day stance, tho.

fgti! what a sweetie + a spellbinder.

Thanks all. We only sold tickets for our new year party, generally it's a case of getting down early to make sure you get in. The co runner of the club's stance is simply that he's not getting involved.

45 people attending a birthday that isn't a Big Number seems... ambitious? I can imagine there will be lots of people who go to the big table who won't make Hot Mess.

plus, facebook event rsvps tend to have almost zero bearing on who actually turns up

(unless it's an actually small thing that it'd be the height of rudeness not to commit one way or the other)

Hire a neutral doorperson and have them ruthlessly turn away any large groups, stating club policy.

That way neither you nor your (annoyingly detached) co-promoter don't have to dirty your fingers in it.

Make sure you put on your Facebook page/events/listings etc. "no groups over 6 people" so that it's plain that that is official policy.

Good advice. I'd not usually be as cold as that but I think it may be justified considering this is obv a dick move.

Spotted: BlaB and Alex in MTL with matching ironic Ramones Ts

https://m.flickr.com/photos/sexyoxen/15794028334/

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8656/15794028334_2cd709341c_z.jpg

To play devil's advocate and also not knowing this person personally, I would say that it's not necessarily a dick move; I think of clubs and events like this as public spaces but having never booked one or had to consider any of this backend stuff, it wouldn't occur to me that capacity is limited, people are really into it, large crowds ruin the vibe, etc. So he may just not be thinking it through.

Would it be unreasonable for you to acknowledge having read it? Could you be like "hey, happy bday, happy for you (lies), thanks so much for supporting my party but here's the reality of the situation that makes it challenging to accommodate large groups"?

::heart:: Alex in Montreal

Stevie that is excellent advice, thanks.

i went to a friend's karaoke party on saturday and i got karaoke-level drunk (which is to say: quite a bit). also drunk was my friend's roommate, whom i've met several times before and thought was a sweet enough guy, but the drunker he got the more he started pawing at me, and eventually he slid his hand down my pants, and he even kissed me on the cheek at one point. my boyfriend, meanwhile, was literally RIGHT THERE, it was a private karaoke room (B told me that the guy made some untoward advances in his direction as well, though nothing like what he did to me). at the time i kind of just laughed uncomfortably about it and tried shifting away from him (which was hard, the room was pretty full up with people), but when i got home that night i was so upset that i couldn't even sleep. like, "furiously wrote a poem at 5am about it because i didn't want to wake up my boyfriend" levels of upset. i get that you were drunk and i was drunk and i don't mind good-natured flirting be it drunk or sober but i feel like he really crossed a line, and it angers me that he apparently thought that my being gay stands in for consent; like, i wasn't there to cruise, dude, i was there to sing the hell out of "every heartbeat" with friends and have a good time!!

yesterday (the day after the party) he sent me a FB friend request. i'm still trying to work out what to say to him but i'm expecting it won't be very nice.

Make it cut.

If there's one thing I've gotten good at doing (and there probably isn't), it's telling off drunk assholes in bars. I'm sure I'll get glass embedded into my scalp one of these days, but it's a good look iirc.

i'm sorry dr, that is clearly inappropriate behavior and sounds awful to have experienced.

Great song choice, btw.

people needin' boundaries

man, I would not want to get Margo Channing Eric angry in a bar, with his climber's back and all.

Do you encounter many aggressive drunks in Mpls bars? What happened to Minnesota Nice?

Usually these incidents are with people who start by braying "I'm from the east coast," or something similar.

"I'm surprised you could send that friend request; I thought your hand would be numb from being squeezed between my ass cheeks."

That's just rewarding bad behavior with innuendo.

In my experience the shyest guys are the most aggressive, as if to compensate.

A true lothario would never do anything as rank as maul donna like that.

man, I would not want to get Margo Channing Eric angry in a bar, with his climber's back and all.

Do you encounter many aggressive drunks in Mpls bars? What happened to Minnesota Nice?

― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Monday, February 2, 2015 2:21 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Usually these incidents are with people who start by braying "I'm from the east coast," or something similar.

― Eric H., Monday, February 2, 2015 2:23 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

shady shade shade shade

leaf-dappled

naaah

one reason i don't get shitfaced anymore is so i don't have to wonder what i'm doing if part of my brain shuts down.

so I spent a night in Davenport, Iowa three summers ago... nice enough gay bar a few blocks from the minor-league ballpark... but now it's been named one of the Ten Queerest Cities in America by The Advocate? What did I miss?

And DAYTON?

http://www.advocate.com/print-issue/current-issue/2015/01/12/queerest-cities-america-2015?page=full

You don’t need us to tell you that West Hollywood and New York are LGBT-friendly. This list is all about the queerness of some less-expected locales.

yeah i know, but still.

Correction: This entry previously described Erie as being in the northeastern Pennsylvania.

Anyone had any luck with Scruff beyond getting direct-delivered smut and a dozen variations on the word "hey"?

Oh yes.

Things I have gotten from Scruff:

• tons of really great sex
• several good friends that I still talk and hang out with years later
• long-distance friends that I've met up/hung out with when I've traveled to their respective city
• lots of fun dates, even if they don't lead anywhere
• recommendations of stuff to do in p much every city I've visited

So far, the most promising interactions came from someone in WeHo and another f'n 19 year old (this one closeted, according to my social media background check).

I still use OKCupid, to diminishing returns.

OKC is zombieland for me now.

My med student hookup (C*list) dumped me after two meets, presumably for a girl his own age. He didn't like the first 20 mins of Duck Soup, so i might've sent his info to Eric.

"tons of really great sex" just makes my brain ache now.

I think I'd be OK with "annual great sex."

another frustrating thing abt it is that like everyone wants something different but it's really hard to gauge what ppl actually want from looking at a form that they filled out. Some people get mad if you try to start a conversation w/ them bcz they just want to ~cut to the chase~, some ppl get mad if you ~cut to the chase~ because they want to chat a little bit first, some people don't want to screw at all, etc, etc, etc.

I only put "cribbage" in my interests and the first message I got was "wanna play naked cribbage?"

i wonder what putting "sabermetrics" would lure

Rounding up to the next inch.

being clever is also really, really hard to do on Scruff because if you put only one word people will always think it's a euphemism for sex.

is propinquity a factor on Scruff, like Grindr? or is it just allegedly unshaven personals?

It is a factor, tho oddly enough it's default screen headlines "global" hotness.

its

54 restored to original form, much better and gayer film apparently. It'll play at Berlin:

http://www.hitfix.com/in-contention/redemption-is-coming-for-the-ryan-phillippe-and-mike-myers-drama-54

OMG I HAVE BEEN WAITING LIKE 5 YEARS FOR THIS!!!!

Had a nice Valentine's Day, cooked dinner for a gay couple who are celebrating their 50th anniversary. They spoke at length about London in the 70s, Joan Collins, Isabella Rosselini and nude beaches in Cuba. I made lamb meatballs, candy beet salad and herb pie.

One of the dudes is Louis of "NO SLAPPING!" fame

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kswOS1YfmPM

lol I bought the Saddest Music in the World on DVD just because it included SSSP as a bonus feature

well, that's my fave Maddin feature to boot.

Enjoyed the Brit miners-queers film Pride this morning despite the mainstream Full Monty vibe (eg, Welsh granny visits a rubber dungeon).

mmm lamb meatballs

"To boot," heh.

ur filthy mind

No, this boot:

http://offscreen.com/images/articles/_resized/10_1_music.jpg

ah. glassy.

let us spend Presidents Day remembering our greatest gay presidents, and also Louis (RIP) Jourdan's leathery look in The Paradine Case:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QoWJy64UKCo/hqdefault.jpg

LOL at the only comment on the SBSP YT.

slapperalism

http://www.vulture.com/2015/02/54-directors-cut.html

I want to believe.

Have been putting off Pride for the very reason that it looks so Montyish. Like, it looks like a queer movie I'd be comfortable watching with my parents (who'd probably like it, so maybe I should).

I really liked Test, though, mostly on the strength of the highly empathetic lead actor (who looks distractingly similar to a friend of mine). I do wish we saw more of (literally!) the hottie who played Walt (his hookup), though.

i enjoyed 'pride' a lot more than i thought i would but it is kinda corny in spots (and erases certain important details, eg ashton's CPGB affiliation). it's definitely parent-friendly. john c. reilly was in the (very tiny) audience where i saw it!

I'm still ashamed I liked Pride at all and didn't vomit.

it absolutely is corny. it'd be nice if there was a Mike Leigh-style version of the story i suppose, but there isn't.

I was going to make a spring thread but do we even heed quarterly threads anymore?

do we even heed quarterly threads anymore?

Am starting to get more comfortable responding to Scruff messages. Good? Bad?

I've gone out on two days with a guy bearing the same name as a character in a short story I wrote last October. Sounds like my life has become a Barthelme novel or a Charlie Kaufman script.

aka Kugel's Ass Episode

Eric I'd say that's definitely a good thing. What's your experience with Scruff so far?

I just came here to rant about how I am so fucking fed up with gay men using people they've slept with as some sort of one-upmanshippy social currency and idk what purpose does it serve? Like are you just trying to make people envious? Why is that fun? At this point I don't even get envious anymore, I just get bummed out that people still do this. Like if you EVER mention the name of ANYONE someone has slept with that will be like the first fucking they tell you about that person, omg, stop, just don't

So far, just chat. My profile says I'm only into networking, chat and friendships. Which is the necessary half-truth, obv, and I'm intrigued how many people are disrespecting my claims.

My absolute fave was a terse "you looking?" just a few days ago from a 6'5" dude who said he was looking for bottoms to either power top or tag team. Listed under activities/interests was just one thing: "Butt-fucking."

I know this is all probably old hat to the rest of you, but it's still amusingly new to me.

Please tell me you don't have a headless/shirtless picture as your profile pic though

Part headless, part shirtless.

bcz I mean surely you can see the contradictions inherent in putting a sexualized body on display and then saying "totally not here for sex", idk, I haven't seen your pic so who knows, but genearlly w/ app ettiquette it's nagl to sexualize yrself if yr not making yrself sexually available

Right, but at the same time it's not like I have "FYI: NOT LOOKING FOR HOOKUPS" splattered all over my profile with a boudoir photo.

It's just a discreet omission on my part.

Does anyone who isn't Alfred have any thoughts about this?

http://www.towleroad.com/2015/03/russell-tovey-apologizes-for-saying-hes-glad-he-never-became-really-effeminate-or-a-tapdancing-freak.html

a tale as old as time

reminiscent of Bob Mould (he was a guy who played loud guitar in the '80s and '90s), in his coming-out inerview with Dennis Cooper in SPIN, saying "I don't want to be a FREAK."

yeah my thoughts are that that's a totally oblivious non-apology by someone who doesn't understand things like subtext and has no idea why people are upset or what he possibly did wrong and is just a sad and baffled victim

"wah wah wah it was never my ~intention~" no shit, sherlock, that's the whole fucking point

Effing relax and leave him alone.

The only tragedy here would be if he was as beautiful as he is and was a total queen. There's nothing worse than when you see a hot guy and later meet him, only to hear a purse fall out of his mouth. Such a turn off.

Posted by: josi

I'm not really invested in this guy as I've never seen the show (neither the NY nor Brooklyn libraries have the DVD!) but, for a change, read the comments if you think he's all alone on this. haha xp!

If he had just said "I'm grateful I'm not Andrew Rannells" that would've been fine.

xp totally nothing worse

this was a p good response i think

I was the very embodiment of everything our society worries could go wrong with a little boy, and in my small Midwestern town in the early '80s, I was every father's nightmare awoken and menacingly mincing my way through our local mall's food court.

But my father wasn't like other (most?) fathers. My father didn't care. Or, perhaps more importantly, if he did, he never let it show. When I was six and he signed me up for soccer, he made me play for a month and then let me quit when I made it clear that it was killing my soul. Then, instead, he let me take gymnastics at the YMCA. When I was eight he bought me a Cabbage Patch doll named Ivy Rose with corn silk hair. He was in many ways what many would refer to as "a man's man" but he was also sensitive and cried easily and openly while watching old movies and there was never a moment that he made me feel I was anything less than exactly who I was supposed to be (unfortunately I can't say the same for the rest of the world, but that's a different story).

I don't think most dads who want their sons to "man up" are bad guys. Like the rest of us, they've been living in and trying to measure up to a culture that tells us that if you're assigned male at birth, then there are specific ways of being and acting that must be adhered to and if they aren't, there will be trouble. It's too frightening and too exhausting to attempt to challenge and change the culture, so instead, they attempt to challenge and change their boys.

The same goes for the boys themselves. I don't think Tovey or anyone who thinks like Tovey is a bad person for feeling the way that he feels. But let's be clear that Tovey is passing judgement on effeminacy. If we look at his statement again, he isn't simply saying, as some have argued, that he is masculine and that's just the way it goes. When I read comments from people trying to make this into some kind of attack on the masculine gay men of the world, I seethe. Tovey states that he "had to toughen up," which implies that his natural state of being wasn't tough....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/noah-michelson/a-few-words-on-russell-tovey_b_6791216.html

there were some excellent twitter draggings of tovey on sunday

still mystified as to what he thinks his "unique quality" is

posted this on stevie's fb page on the topic and thought it was worth sharing here as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSlfQ49Bq1s

effeminate men are fine until they get in a gaggle and start SCREEEEEching, amirite?

I've personally heard you screech about more than one vaudevillian act.

It was not the most masculine thing I've witnessed.

also there's just plain annoying behavior from anyone, no need to gender neg it

not saying anyone here is doing that i just feel like i've seen a lot of weight placed on negative behavior as female gendered among gays i've known - airheaded abercrombie gays, bitches, etc. - while positive traits are more neutral or masculine gendered.

hello

i'm sorry for being so absent, and thanks all for answering my last question (especially Stevie D), and congratulations Elmo and i'm sorry i missed that

but i'm here now.

is there a new thread bc of the solstice?

hi, ramzz. thank you! i am still engaged but have no fucking clue how to plan a wedding, lol

haha who does??

<3 missed you guys

xpost

Gays, traditionally.

anyway, i recently got stitches in my scalp and a tetanus shot. i hope you are all avoiding workplace accidents unlike yours truly.

what happened??

o fuq i have so much to say i forgot this thread was a thread sorry y'all more later

let's make a new thread

hey guys

still gay

lol me2

More than usual.

dit

intermittently

can't drink til next Tuesday

hadn't had much evidence of gayness in past few weeks but i finally joined the rest of the chicago homosexual male population and got scruff so

has to be an improvement on a4a at least

ugh sorry Morbs

but to answer a question from months ago yes the whiskey diet really does work i lost 25 pounds.

scruff is actually a very good app in terms of technical shit. wayyyy better than A4A.

surm, i being uncareful and walked into a hanging light fixture -- a glancing blow that split the scalp. it sucked but it's not serious, i'm just feeling tender and cranky.

OUCH.

life is full of danger!

can we start a new thread for spring even if only so's i don't have to see one of my least favorite album covers every time i open the thread?

also even though yes i am engaged i am experimenting with a strictly social presence on scruff, with poor results

it can get tricky - friendship is v murky in our world ... so i've heard

yes new thread! i don't get to start bc i've been mia.

injuries vmic, was it like an antique candelabra?

it was a high intensity grow light

for weed

vmic indeed

ooh i want to try that (sans head injury)

i even got my medical mj card so i'm legit

ugh! i need to up my game. i want one of those mini vapes bad.

What's your scruff handle, Corey? I wanna woof you.

hahahahahahaha uh oh

we tried scruff as a couple, also with poor results

i've chatted with a few guys but it's been a tad underwhelming, it'd likely be easier going if i just wanted to trick around

then there was one guy who i had met irl by chance in a bar who later started pestering me the app with messages & unsolicited blurry taint photos until i had no choice but to block him

hi gays!

hi alfred!

HEY!

still haven't set up a profile/uploaded any photos yet E, so you'll just have to wait :3

ok, created -- i am "jeanne-francoise leotard" if anyone feels like looking me up

You're gonna get so many dick pics with that one.

Consider yourself woof'd.

tbh i am probably there to troll rubes as much as to cruise nudes so the name fits (like lycra)

Happy trolling!

that's what 95% of faggots do on sex apps anyway. whether they are aware or not.

My latest (five year old) pic sure confirms I am. Was indulging in shameless ego boosting in NY until one person called me on it.

"Cause you were getting soooo many messages," he taunted. (I wasn't.)

youve been in NY, huh?

time running out to include Looking instead of Larry Kramer's novel in spring thread title.

Larry Kramer's a writer now?

:p

Oscar nominated in 1971, as if you didn't know.

i do think i have to read Faggots

looking would have been just as horrible without the dumbass comments from the gym membership in a tshirt

speaking of boy-cotts i'm wearing some d&g trunks right now -- didn't buy, a buddy (korean/japanese, tatted, inexhaustible) left them at my place (and promptly moved to brooklyn w/ everyone else)

are we really friending each other on scruff

So I went on a date two Fridays ago w/an ebola doctor who just returned from Sierra Leone. Looks a bit like Jon Meacham.

ok if that isn't a Pierce Brosnan movie i don't know what is

I'll even title it Volcano.

YES

how was the date

I ranted about Bill Clinton after the second drink. It's been almost two weeks. I'd see him again but he lives about ten miles away.

it's spring

yes

https://gaytraveler.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/oasis-sens.jpg?w=604

I nominate this image for the spring thread:

http://www.papermag.com/uploaded_images/29se.xlarge1.jpg

i believe that's Heywood Jablome on the right xp

looks like Paul Rudd

I am going to look good this spring. i will be tan

but like, soft glow tan. not gross tan.

like i was just hanging out with a hot lifeguard on the beach for an hour tan

I'm going to use so much sunscreen this summer.

lol

one cancer at a time for me

<3

It's amazing how much more I care about shielding embedded ink from the sun than I did my own bare skin.

your own private priorities

so we're skipping right over spring, huh?

i've grown more fastidious with my skincare regimen, I wear spf30 on my face every day. a little color is nice but so is smooth, hydrated skin.

I do love that half this post's posts came during spring.

i actually was expecting to go the entire winter celibate but actually spring so far has been less rewarding

and actually i'm still waking up and can't write for beans

I do love that half this post's [sic] posts came during spring.

You would, you bore.

something's going on - i am kind of excited for spring

this has like never happened before

We're done LOOKING, it's time for Larry Kramer's Lincoln to give GAY bedSPRINGs quite a beating in 2015

xp

Me too, except I think it happens every year.