Marvel's Jessica Jones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3UYWK2jeX0

pretty sure Tennant is going to ruin this

Based on my brief glimpses of his Dr. Whoa, he's the part I'm most worried about.

The comics did a slow build to Kilgrave, first letting us watch Jessica work cases so we could get a sense of her self-destructive behavior — as well as the innate heroism she refuses to admit is still there — before getting at the root cause of it. The TV show heads there very quickly and only makes token attempts at showing Jessica doing her day job.

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-netflixs-jessica-jones-is-marvels-darkest-and-best-series-so-far

I'm a little worried about making it All Kilgrave All The Time. Like, I get it, we need a villain and you can't wait until the final few episodes to introduce the Big Bad.

But it feels like a loss. ALIAS got so much of its force from the gradual unfolding, the slow reveal that changed our understanding of everything we had seen over the first, I dunno, year?

Still, maintaining optimism for something that will be v good on its own terms...

But it feels like a loss. ALIAS got so much of its force from the gradual unfolding, the slow reveal that changed our understanding of everything we had seen over the first, I dunno, year?

super-OTM

I didn't make it past the scene where Jessica and Luke Cage met in the bar in Alias so I have little to know investment in how the comic book unveiled itself, which honestly sounds like one-trick Bendis before everyone realized he only had one trick

Basically I feel like dude writes like Lobdell, only instead of casting everything as a not-so-secret telenovela that thrives on goofy reveals, it's all self-consciously DEEP and super impressed with wholly unearned character insights that unveil too slowly for me to care even a little bit about.

eh, imo it's a good trick. i'm still waiting to see how POWERS (the books not the terrible show) plays out lol.

tbf tho if there's a place to get of the bus in ALIAS that would be it

the goodwill earned from daredevil means i'm willing to give this three episodes regardless of quality

Positive review from Slant, not particularly spoilery: http://www.slantmagazine.com/tv/review/marvels-jessica-jones-season-one

so this show is v good

please assure me it gets better after the first episode

once kilgrave is less apparitional and more present it really accelerates, so yeah. I liked the first ep though

i guess maybe i'm having trouble accepting this brittle, gothy JJ vs the checked-out drunk fuckup JJ I know and love.

i dunno i don't usually have trouble with "that was the book this is the movie" and until now i didn't know Alias was particularly important to me. first ep just felt very... broad, i guess? appreciated the office door tho :)

I'm 4 episodes in, digging it so far. I agree that TV Jess and Book Jess don't match up exactly – the spoonfed "it's PTSD do u see" is unfortunate. I don't think the phrase was ever used in Alias. I'm cutting it a quantity of slack; there's still plenty of storytelling enjoyment. Was this shot in NYC?

I can't tell, one of the exterior shots is definitely queens, but the subways look all wrong

anyway I'm almost at the end of this and 1) the character of kilgrave is a really three dimensional depiction of a sociopath/abuser and it's really stunning and horrifying 2) this is an incredible survivor narrative

I should clarify I have never read the comic. the shoehorned ptsd line was a low point, as are all the clumsy avengers references

Parts are def shot in NYC but just assume nowhere is where it says it is. Except this one cafe that actually IS at 16th St and USW.

can't wait to check this out

this is pretty fuckin good

first episode is pretty fuckin' bad

The bar they're in is 7B in the East Village, the whole show looks like it was filmed in New York for the most part.

nice to see that Lester Freamon is now a character in the MCU

and Calamity Jane!

yeah, but she wasn't a doctor on deadwood. still good for her on blackmailing matrix lady.

lol @ fake MTA logo

I'm in the tension-building downward spiral that makes me stop watching shows. You know, the part where characters start making really poor choices to move the plot forward? Currently on pause and not sure I want to know what happens next.

halfway through. still wondering what I'm missing given the massively positive reception. the show i'm watching is plodding, stagey, and set in an oddly empty new york. only seems to come alive when kilgrave's around, which is a bit concerning even if it turns out to be very meta...

I'm always a little puzzled when people feel let down by the praise for this sort of thing. Speaking as someone who's basically the target audience, it's very good (so far) as a Marvel product, but I don't have any expectation of it exceeding its bounds as a Marvel product. If it does, fantastic, but it's still a show about superheroes at the end of the day, so I'm able to temper my expectations accordingly and enjoy it on its own terms.

I like that Jessica has an Acer

I kinda don't!

i'm kinda sick of marvel brand darkness and pain. i liked daredevil okay, but it was such a painful show. don't know if i can take a superhero survival narrative! (to quote brad above) think i will stick to antmen and guardians of galaxies.

i guess i want kid stuff. been meaning to watch The Flash...

(sometimes i really do feel like frank miller was the WORST thing to happen to comix...)

The Flash has its share of darkness. But it's certainly lighter than the Marvel Netflix shows.

I appreciate that Marvel has multiple levels of stuff going on and that abstaining from their darker material doesn't affect a viewer's ability to indulge in their lighter fare.

After 1.5 episodes (and having dropped Daredevil halfwayish), I think I'd love these series in a 'monster of the week' style rather than building everything in service to the Boss Villain face-off.

Marvel seems to be moving away from that approach. SHIELD is pretty much 100% a serial at this point. The DC shows are very '___ of the week'-y, though.

spooling out the first season as background worked reasonably well. kind of worried they'll stick with this format and either the next season or the Luke Cage show will be completely about tracking down the company creating drugs for super powers for a whole season

I also was kind of hoping they were going for a Moon Knight background for the cop instead of the direction they went

I guess I successfully avoided spoilers, because I didn't realize Simpson was going to become that character until he said that line in the hospital.

Finished this today in a 5-episode binge. I think it's good – definitely not criticism-proof, but better than Daredevil, better than most of the MCU films. Ritter's good, Colter's good, Ritter and Colter together are great. Tennant's better than I thought he'd be. Most of the secondary characters have strongly plotted arcs, though howler dialogue is still a problem in this wacky universe.

I'll hold off talking about particulars for a while because they're too spoilery. Really looking forward to Luke Cage.

sweet christmas!

So, got around to this today and really enjoyed it. Everybody was great, even Tennant, and if Luke Cage builds on this we have a treat waiting.

I think actually my favourite bit was the way super-strength was handled. Opening doors, chains etc seemed completely natural which is how I always imagined it should be rather than RAAAR STRONG.

Hadn't thought about Moon Knight, and they probably should push that as a later series.

I liked this ok even though it was a little didactic for my tastes and even though about halfway through i started thinking way too literally about how ridiculous the villain's superpower is and why don't they just put in ear plugs and punch him out etc. etc. etc. also too many characters making dubious and conveniently plot-extending decisions. still: not bad!

Because his power is about pheromones (in the comics) and some kind of 'bacteria' cloud (in the series) so just not hearing him won't necessarily stop him affecting you.

if you can't hear what he's say will you still do what he says? how much does intentionality play into this? why am I thinking about this so much?

Seems to be open to debate. In Avengers Academy, for instance, just seeing him say the words and unintentionally 'hearing' them is enough but in the most recent Daredevil blotting out the words with loud music can protect people.

In the series I thought intentionality was played well - I thought there was at least a suggestion that Jessica wasn't under his control when they were together.

yeah that was an interesting ambiguity

i wonder if they cast the guy who played simpson specifically because he looks like an off-brand steve rogers

I would bet $10 on yes. How many beefed up Marvel characters are attempts to create more Cap-style super soldiers?

also igh = inhuman growth hormone?

Bit of a disappointment for me. so many good ideas, so indifferently executed. also, eight episodes of story draaaaagggged out to a full 13.

finished it last night. feel like i live in Bizarro World for all the love this is getting but hey ho glad people like it i guess.

agree if this arc was like four episodes shorter it woulda been way better.

(or if they had four "case of the weeks" interspersed even to keep the arc things less draggy)

I am 8 eps in... I really like it but the myriad ways they do everything but just fuckin shoot Kilgrave is getting kinda ridic
I know that's not the point of the show but the decision-making is getting kinda silly

Also a neato sidebar: Will Traval, the actor who plays Simpson, is an Aussie actor who hails from my hometown. He was in my sister's Year 12 drama class. It was pretty exciting to see him pop up with a recurring role in this!

So far I'm buying it (7 eos in); without Kilgrave alive, they can't plausibly prove Hope's innocence.

I knew VG's family were very near merciless killers

Well hey, this is pretty good.

will definitely watch a luke cage show. i love lemond bishop. would watch him read phone book.

i always feel so bad for him on the good wife when those stupid-ass lawyers mess up his shit.

and all the stupid-ass lawyers are always like haha we really got bishop this time and i yell at the screen bitch you WORK for him. who the hell do you think pays for that zillion dollar apartment of yours? he really deserves better council.

Just at the end of ep 11

damn, this show (AKA 1000 Cuts was some next-level OMG shit)

i have 1 episode left

this shit is bananas
b a n a n a s

Just at the end of ep 11

damn, this show (AKA 1000 Cuts was some next-level OMG shit)

Yeah that bit was mad.

Finished this off in a big 4-episode sesh the other night. Won't spoil things, but my assessment overall is pretty similar to WillamC's upthread (albeit that I don't share most of his knowledge of recent MCU stuff) - so yes it isn't perfect, there's moments of clunky dialogue and miss-steps in plot development sprinkled right through, but overall it's far and away one of the most gripping things I've seen this year. Great characters and performances throughout too.

Full disclosure - I've not read the comic book, and as above am not super-familiar with recent Marvel comics generally or the adaptations thereof. Basically I only started watching this because of Netflix screaming at me 'NEW EPISODES OF JESSICA JONES! JESSICA JONES TRENDING! YOU WILL WATCH JESSICA JONES NOW!' every time I logged in. But with most other shows I've tried out recently because of Netflix promotion, I've ended up shrugging and giving up after a few episodes, so it was really nice surprise to find something that was better than I was expecting, rather than worse.

Should I watch Daredevil y/n?

yyyyyyy

Well I guess that settles it then ;)

:D

Just watched the first 2 episodes -- I'm having trouble accepting David Tennant as a super villain, because I keep associating him with that cheery "Dick van Dyke in Mary Poppins" voice from Dr. Who and Broadchurch, and I laugh at the thought of his victims saying things like, "I will read the newsie-wewsies now." and "Blood sausage IS DELICIOUS!!"

he gets more ott and creepy as it goes on

i finished the final ep last night
O_O

Yeah Tennant's whole performance is basically "you know the 10th Doctor in real life would be a terrifying nightmare garbage person, right"

When she hears him calling someone a "ginger twat" over the phone was where i realised he was a rum bugger.

Ive watched 9 eps in the last 2 days: this is prob the best thing Marvel Studios has done up to this point. I really enjoy how in tone and execution, it resembles a TV-MA season of Veronica Mars as much as it does Daredevil

Yeah Tennant's whole performance is basically "you know the 10th Doctor in real life would be a terrifying nightmare garbage person, right"

― you're breaking the NAP (DJP), Thursday, December 10, 2015 4:25 PM (2 weeks ago)

I watched the rest of it with this post at the front of my mind.

What's your verdict?

it made the show more interesting! I liked it anyway, but it really made me question why his character did what he did, considering his powers

in the comics from what i gather he does occasionally have more ambitious schemes. here he was constantly concerned about minimizing his exposure, which makes sense as the limited range of his powers means he wouldn't necessarily be that difficult to take out or contain once the danger he represented was known. his lack of imagination made sense w/ his character for me also, that ultimately the limit of his desires would just be nice places to stay, nice clothes, good food, women. it's all the negative traits a rich brat might pick up - laziness and lack of empathy esp - w/o any of the positive traits a rich brat might have absorbed - sophistication, culture, class, noblesse oblige - nor the aspirations toward these things that a nouveaux riche might possess (cf kingpin in daredevil). the show made him more interesting and sympathetic than the comic also, his pathology is what you might expect from a kid who could always get what he wanted and a grew up into an easily bored man that could never trust anyone nor ever need to trust anyone.

this was fun to watch, because as noted a few posts up, this is basically Veronica Mars starring Gia Goodman.

Thanks to Veg for giving the seal of approval on Daredevil. Eight episodes in and this is excellent.
Of all the cultural things for me to get a buzz off of at this stage in my life, I really wouldn't expected comic-book adaptations to be one of them - but here we are.

After 50 years, the MU is a notebook jammed full of iconic characters and heroes' journeys and weird inversions of heroes' journeys and interesting plotlines -- costumes and powers are almost beside the point. Certainly not everybody feeding Marvel their dollars is viewing through the vaseline-smeared lens of nostalgia, so they must be doing something right from the standpoint of basic storytelling.

After 50 years, the MU is a notebook jammed full of iconic characters and heroes' journeys and weird inversions of heroes' journeys and interesting plotlines

Oh for sure, I'm not doubting this for a second. Reading my post back, it probably comes across as patronising, as if I'm sneering at long-term MU devotees, but that's not where I'm coming from - more just flagging up that this is a slightly out-of-character thing for me to be into.
The richness of the storytelling is a huge part of what I'm enjoying in both shows, so it's heartening to know that they're just the tip of the iceberg in that regard.

No worries, I didn't read any patronizing in yr post. I'm just tickled, as a Marvel Zombie going back to the early 70s, that the decades of accumulated characters and stories in the print universe is being mined carefully and reasonably successfully for the cinematic universe.

Just started, sooooooo much better than Daredevil. Didn't think that Ritter could pull the grit to do something like this, but she's been pretty damn great.

First episode is kind of inert, but it picks up really quickly, i.e. when Trish starts punching people.

I'm sad this wasn't renewed as quickly as DD was.

it'd be cool if they did some cross-over episodes, like the arrow/flash collabos

they're doing an entire crossover series

eventually

i'm sure it will be renewed; netflix renews EVERYTHING and this got crazy good press for them. i think w/ daredevil it was a case of a huge runaway success that probably caught them off guard (i'm guessing that's the show they claim got more viewers than game of thrones), and they wanted to reassure ppl it wouldn't be three years until season 2.

Incredible show. Among other things I've never seen the real-life implications of a superpower (Kilgrave's) unpacked so thoroughly: his manipulation and self-justification; his victims' trauma and guilt. As Emily Nussbaum wrote: "Much of the reason that their dynamic works is because of Tennant’s sly and layered performance, which suggests a grotesque innocence beneath Kilgrave’s sadism, a distorted belief that this is true romance." He's the ultimate friendzone creep.

I'm also not sure I've ever seen a TV show which accomplishes diversity with less fuss. No white male heroes at all. PoC and gay women in key roles that aren't identity-dependent. Passes the Bechdel test so regularly that it doesn't even seem to be thinking about it. Nothing contrived or didactic. And the show's strengths flow from that diversity.

I do think Tennant is amazing in this - and I had my doubts beforehand, regarding him as a bit of a ham.

(btw I'm 4 eps into Daredevil and yeah, really enjoying that too)

I'm also not sure I've ever seen a TV show which accomplishes diversity with less fuss. No white male heroes at all. PoC and gay women in key roles that aren't identity-dependent. Passes the Bechdel test so regularly that it doesn't even seem to be thinking about it. Nothing contrived or didactic. And the show's strengths flow from that diversity.

One of the big things that immediately struck me about JJ is that it was created and exec-produced by a woman. It approaches things so freshly that is making this show incredibly novel and gripping, in part by upending archetypal expectations. Hogarth is an amazing character, I'm loving her to death.

Also just found out who Simpson is supposed to be. The creators went kinda deep for him!

the ease of its diversity and all the other refreshing aspects make me extra frustrated that it was so sluggishly paced and indifferently directed tbh

I hope they swap directors w/ Daredevil for their next seasons

JJ was everything I hoped Daredevil would be. With the latter, I always struggled to find the motivation to watch another episode (gave up 3 or 4 eps before the end).

I reckon that the Daredevil team will have to up their game after JJ because it exists in the same corner of the MCU and they're playing in different leagues. Contrast the best-friend roles of Trish and Foggy and it's embarrassing for DD. A lot of shows now seem to have major upticks in their second season so it's possible.

Tennant's petulant exasperation and whiny entitlement is fantastic and nothing like the more stereotypically evil comic version. He's not a supervillain, he's just a dick who uses his powers to have an easy life.

Agree with everything Leee said.

DD had one great character, a couple of solid ones and a string of duds. JJ has the reverse.

Foggy's always been kind of a schlub in the comics and Trish is based on a character that became an actual superhero, so I wouldn't be surprised to see their respective arcs remain basically the same in subsequent seasons.

If a major subplot of JJ season 2 involves Trish opening up a temp agency for superpowered people who aren't trying to be vigilante heroes, this will be my favorite show of all time.

Hellcats for Hire

I know what Foggy's like in the comics but the scenes between him and Karen in DD are death. Bad comic acting and horrible dialogue. He can be a schlub but he doesn't have to be such a drag. Trish is different enough from Carol Danvers that it's more about the writing on the shows than the existing back stories. No excuses basically.

I would never recommend DD to someone with no interest in superheroes but JJ has been wowing Marvel-agnostic friends.

(Psst...although she's standing in for Carol Danvers' role in Alias, Trish is Patsy Walker AKA Hellcat.)

The scene where Foggy and Karen go out drinking together because she's afraid to go home was really sweet, I thought.

xp Gah, you're right, I forgot Hellcat's real name. Spotted Nuke though.

there are a few articles explaining how Patsy Walker, which was an actual long-running comic, got pulled into the Marvel universe as a superhero

really enjoyed that being integrated into the show as Patsy being a child television star

sorry, Trish :)

Patsy Walker is, I think, the MCU character who's existed the longest aside from the golden age-era Captain America characters.

Future Mad Magazine cartoonist and "Fold-In" creator Al Jaffee wrote and drew most of the early issues, several of which included Mad founding editor Harvey Kurtzman's highly stylized "Hey Look!" one-page humor strips.

If nothing else, this has led me to find out Al Jaffee is still around and drawing fold-ins.

btw for those unaware, I was describing the setup for the new Hellcat solo title upthread

The way they made the 'It's Patsy' theme music kind of perfectly irritating was one of my favourite little things in this.

Does this get better? I made it to the episode (episodes?) where the mind-control bad guy keeps sending randos on the street to assassinate the good guys, and it was super hokey, like an early Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode or something

Finished up with Daredevil last night - avoiding spoilers for DJP and anyone else still on the go with it, but I agree with people who've been saying that the last few episodes feel padded out. Also feel that it stuck the landing in the very last episode pretty well though. If I had to compare the two shows, I'd say that notwithstanding the padding, DD was slightly (but only slightly) more slickly put together in terms of plotting and dialogue, but JJ inspires slightly (but only slightly) more ~deep thoughts~ in me. Wouldn't want to pit one show against the other though as obv I thought they were both excellent.

One thing that's been going round and round in my head in regards to JJ in particular relates to Scott's comments way upthread about how he was fed up with a certain brand of darkness that had become popular in comic/superhero related stuff post-Frank Miller and at times he felt like an over-reliance on darkness had ruined the whole genre. I feel that in certain critical circles that's quite a fashionable, almost right-on stance - that a cliched ~Dark and Gritty~ style has developed and kind of overwhelmed superhero-genre stuff - and it's a way of thinking I'd probably fallen into myself: I probably overemphasised my naviety/inexperience upthread but obviously like anyone not under a rock I'd seen plenty of the big comic-book adaptation movies over the years, but generally I'd just come to accept the view that modern comic/superhero stuff is all D&G cliches and therefore not worth paying much attention to.

JJ kind of threw me for a loop in that regard, because although it's obv dealing with some really heavy stuff and although a lot of the time it feels like a very angry show (which I like), the tone and also the moral values of it come across to me as a million miles away from stereotyped ideas of D&G. It definitely doesn't remind me of Frank Miller at all. (DD is a bit closer to what I would usually associate with D&G, and at times feels a little Miller-esque, which I guess is inevitable given that it's partly drawing on stories/characters written by Miller - but it still doesn't feel like it's just accepting D&G tropes uncritically).

OTM. The anti-D&G line is very fashionable with critics like Anthony Lane who think superhero comics are fundamentally just silly fun and should be adapted for the screen accordingly.

but generally I'd just come to accept the view that modern comic/superhero stuff is all D&G cliches and therefore not worth paying much attention to.

Actually that doesn't quite capture it - it's not so much that I felt that all contemporary comic-book related stuff was D&G related cliches, because obviously that's not even remotely true, but more that when works in that genre attempted to do anything self-consciously serious or mature, then they would inevitably fall into D&G, not really having any other language available for that purpose. Both of these shows have established to me that this was a daft assumption.

Also I'm obviously not meaning to have a go at Scott personally here - like I say, his posts are an example of a wider view that I've encountered before and at times shared myself.

Sorry for navel-gazing and Aspie monologuing - will ease up for a bit.

I feel like the Frank Miller school circa his Daredevil and Batman work started with a nod toward the realistic repercussions, personal and societal, of vigilantes and criminals beating on each other and stabbing victims in alleyways and very quickly became this gritty noir thing where the people involved in this world were vicious and amoral, even if they had a moral code on the surface. Very black and white definitions of who is in the right, with lots of grey in the day-to-day actions and no indication it was as Dredd-like parody.

It took no time at all for the Daredevil/Batman stuff to be parodied by the Cerebus and TMNT comics of the day, but comics as a whole (and a lot of movies in the vein) embraced the roughness.

Now we're post-D&G and can have actual human characters that aren't embracing that darkness, that live in a violent world but aren't sociopaths gleeful that they're caving in heads. And there are characters who are unrepentantly violent and they're these pill-popping maniacs who are seen as threatening or even worthy of pity.

I think that's the angle I was missing when I was trying to determine why some latter-day writers can be enjoyable but I never completely get into it because at the root, they're coming from the fallout of the late 80s and their base angle is "violent sociopaths are fun"

see: the work of Mark Millar

As a reformed Frank Miller fanboy, I'm still a little annoyed that Alan Moore's hand in grim & gritty is underplayed, but that's an aside!

As for the way DD and JJ embrace that particular aesthetic, I do feel the former is a largely more generic standard example, but is it done right; it's easy enough to do something violent and dark, but where JJ pwns DD is how it's able to use gallows humor consistently and its main characters tend to be competent and generally avoid stupiditis (which increases the sense of danger when they get in over their heads).

xps

I will say that I was tickled with DD's scenes between Foggy and Karen.

Frank Miller, of course, eventually came at that from a different angle and ended up making straight-up noir pastiche with Sin City and his own "sociopaths are fun" comic is the ridiculous All-Star Batman & Robin which is good for all the wrong reasons

I really think the Affleck solo Bats film should be an adaptation of All-Star Batman & Robin

seconded

Are you retarded or something?

lol

No, I'm the goddamn mh!

I enjoyed JJ, particularly the amount of women and poc and how ppl upthread mentioned that it didn't feel like the show was begrudgingly enforcing a quota or w/e. Also as someone who's not too into superheros I like how the show wasn't all that superhero-y even with the special powers all over the place.

I only watched the first episode of Daredevil, nothing about it seemed particularly interesting, not sure if it dramatically picks up or not after that?

I didn't think it did, especially. It was visually neat, but it had the self-serious Darkness of, like, '90s television.

I thought it was good except for secondary character performances and all the dialogue. (DD, rather than JJ, is the one that I thought was padded out to about 3-4 episodes too long.)

Oh god, 1000 cuts.

I stopped Daredevil pretty early on, not that I didn't enjoy but certainly somewhere around - after? - the hall fight, which I thought was great, but which made me think, well, not gonna get better, is it?

The violence really amps up with this, huh?

Cliched characters, a lot of clunky dialogue and a maddeningly repetitive structure in the last handful of episodes, but overall the most thrilling and addictive piece of television I've seen for a good while. Kilgrave is an instant classic TV villain, utterly despicable and totally formidable.

I would've developed the Kilgrave plot more slowly in the background for the first half of the season though, and had some minor, unconnected cases first. They had episodes that felt like they should be the final showdown by like two thirds of the way through.

Yeah, I think the biggest mistake of the series was to make the whole season about Kilgrave, the third or fourth time Jessica faces him and he gets away again started to feel anticlimactic... Basically the reveal of her immunity to his power should've been at the conclusion of the whole story, not something that happens in episode 7. The final confrontation would've felt more satisfying if both Jessica and the viewer would've found out about the immunity only then, now it was pretty obvious how that scene would play out.

Also, because we barely saw any of Jessica's normal work during season 1, they'll have to re-establish the whole premise of the series again in season 2. And it'll pretty hard to come up with villain actors as good as Tennant was. The guy playing Nuke wasn't bad but he was too cartoonish to capture a similar vibe. Unless they're transferring him to Daredevil, since he's a DD villain in the comics?

Worst character is Malcolm, who I wondered "Why is this character in this show?" and then he gets one good episode, and then I wondered the same thing again.

me grammar bad

No, worst character is whatsername, the ginger sister of the dead kid.

Yeaaaah. Worst character and worst actress, no contest.

I guess I've encountered too many poisonous caricatures masquerading as human beings because everyone seems to HATE that character for being unrealistic and out of step with the rest of the show and... I didn't notice her presence as particularly wrong or jarring? Like yes, she was a terrible person and at points I actively wanted her to die but her spite-fueled malevolence leading her to free Kilgrave and almost dying was pretty satisfying to me plot/enjoyment wise.

I thought she was great

it took a long time for me to get into the idea of characters that make the audience irritated or uncomfortable and she does both pretty well

Yeah, I thought it was a great character and a good performance. If she irritated you and got under our skin, then they were successful at what they were trying to do, it was not bad writing or acting. And I really liked that despite the crap she did they ultimately managed to keep her sympathetic, it would've been much easier to roll with the crazy shrew stereotype.

And Malcolm was good too, I liked how they used him as Jessica's morality anchor, the one who kept her from going down. Though hopefully he'll bit a more fleshed-out in the next season when he's not under Kilgrave-induced stupor anymore.

y'all are crazy, the sister was an awful one-note character

she was overacting her face off

Seriously. I'm totally down with unsympathetic/irritating characters but hers was a little beyond the pale. She reminded me of the paraplegic brother in Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Just OTT loathsome and unnecessary. There was probably a way to do that character but that wasn't it.

eh, every time she appeared on screen I just thought to myself "I wonder which parts of that interaction she's going to put on her LiveJournal"

Ha. Fair enough.

Hang on - are some people talking about the ginger sister and some people talking about Carrie Anne Moss' lawyer?

I don't think anyone said anything about the lawyer?

Like yes, she was a terrible person and at points I actively wanted her to die but her spite-fueled malevolence leading her to free Kilgrave and almost dying was pretty satisfying to me plot/enjoyment wise.

This is pretty clearly about the lawyer.

No, the same applies to the sister too: she helped Kilgrave escape by storming into Jessica's flat with the therapy group, and that lead to Kilgrave almost killing her by hanging.

OK I concede the point.

That was 100% about the sister

gah I have to finish this series. it's entirely too dark for my wife so she barely wants to watch it. ditto daredevil.

it took a long time for me to get into the idea of characters that make the audience irritated or uncomfortable and she does both pretty well

― μpright mammal (mh), Monday, February 1, 2016 10:53 AM (Yesterday)

yes.

one of my personal favorite lowkey reactions to the series was when they first popped up in Jessica's hallway; my reaction during all of their initial appearances was "ugh I bet their sex is terrible" and after the sibling reveal I thought to myself "well no wonder their sex is terrible"

lolol

she reminded me of a Sandra Bernhard character

Me too, total King of Comedy vibes! I think it's the voice.

lol DJP

I would've developed the Kilgrave plot more slowly in the background for the first half of the season though, and had some minor, unconnected cases first.

there are a LOT of ways this show is like Veronica Mars (most of them very good ways), but the way they developed the main plot thread (and kilgrave himself) so early in the season is not one of them. IIRC, in the best seasons of V.M., they announced the main season-long plot at the beginning, but then basically waited at least half a season to really get moving on it, with just a few hints here and there. i liked that. here they definitely showed their hand a bit too soon. i still like these series though! and i'm pretty allergic to all things superhero.

granted, i think the seasons of V.M. had many more episodes than J.J.

first season of vm was much more case of the week w/ occasional working in of big season long plot. second season had the cases of the week much more frequently tie in to the big overarching mystery. third season had some douchebag from pitchfork.

i know this has already been said but the comic was much more case of the week, w/ the trauma of kilgrave lingering over everything but generally unspoken until the final arc which deals w/ it head on (iirc similar to the show when she takes a case looking for a girl she realizes has fallen under kilgrave's spell). after that they wrapped it up, bendis pretty much said he couldn't imagine following up the arc and that basically the story had been told. jessica jones still existed, her and luke cage eventually married and had a kid, she got a job at the daily planet. really no idea where they go w/ the show from here.

her and luke cage eventually married and had a kid, she got a job at the daily planet

so, the show transitions to a workplace sitcom next season?

xpost Yeah, I was flipping through my trades and I didn't even see Killgrave until pretty much the very end.

Her job at the Daily Bugle (ahem, but actually not even the Bugle but a subsidiary publication called The Pulse </nerd>) was still pretty noir-ish IIRC.

haha the dc kid in me came out sorry

Beyond her continued romance with Luke and having a kid, most of the stuff from The Pulse has already been cannibalized by these shows (e.g. Luke in a coma, and Urich's investigation of Fisk on Daredevil pretty closely mirrors The Pulse's first arc involving the exposure of Norman Osborne's identity to the world). And most of her subsequent stories have been set within the contest of a larger team. So, yeah, it'll be interesting to see where they go with a second season.

(ahem, but actually not even the Bugle but a subsidiary publication called The Pulse

so the next season centers around a major media company buying out the arts weekly JJ writes for, laying off their long-time employees, and she becomes one of many unemployed culture-industry writers? then she starts posting to ILM.

I love this and now I want to be a superhero PI.

That redhead was so awful I could hardly watch her. Ugh.

I think the people who liked the horrible ginger vs. the people who don't think the actress is cuet.

Actress is kind of cuet in an odd way (non-JJ photos go a long way toward arguing this case), still found her 'annoying'.

If you saw a still photo of her you'd be like 'OK, she's kind of cute', but as soon as she starts talking or moving it's a different story.

the actor that bugged me was the guy who played Simpson

Ha xpost

I thought dude who played Simpson was good inasmuch as his character is supposed to be basically a glitchy Captain America, and he seemed like the real world result of an attempt at making a Cap (i.e. something would go wrong and dude would be a borderline-psychotic living weapon).

GIMME A RED

That guy is Nuke, right?

Fer sure.

i don't know the characters and haven't read any of the books or know anything about any of these worlds (haven't seen captain america either) so maybe he fits in that context but he bugged me in this for whatever reason.

OUR MY BOYS, OUR MY BOYS.

xpost Very fair point. I have a hard time seeing these shows through the eyes of a newcomer because I'm the nerd that they throw in all of the nerdy easter eggs for.

Spottie, in the comics the guy is literally part of the same super-soldier program that produced Captain America in the 1940s. Nuke (in the series he wasn't referred as such, but Simpson is clearly supposed to be the same character) was introduced in the 1980s in the Daredevil comic by Frank Miller, and he was used as a criticism of the gung-ho militarism of the times. (In the comic Cap discovers Nuke is an 80s version of him, and Miller plays the "old veteran shocked of what happened to the military values he knew" trope with his reactions.) They didn't use much of those elements with Nuke in JJ, but presumably they're saving them for the next season.

But yeah, I agree that he felt out of place in Jessica Jones, because he's so clearly a Captain America foil. I'm not sure why they decided to use him in the TV series and not the movies, because unlike in the comics, they can't have Cap guest star so we can see what he thinks of Nuke.

Amazing there was once a time when Frank Miller critisised hung ho militarism.

He was pretty firmly a libertarian until 9/11, right? So that seemed to have been the basis for his criticism. There's a lot of that in Martha Washington, and IIRC in Elektra Assassin too.

Thanks, Tuomas. Interesting.

Unexpectedly got pulled into this and am 7 episodes in. I'm liking it a lot and I'm in all the way - the show does seem to benefit from binge watching several episodes at a time. I can imagine getting annoyed with waiting for something to happen had this been drawn out one week after next.

All the episodes were released at once, like with other Netflix series, weren't they? So binge watching is pretty much the default mode of viewing it, and the producers knew that.

they can't have Cap guest star so we can see what he thinks of Nuke.

Also don't think Marvel would be ok with Cap going down on Trish.

lol

This Marvel?

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--NGgN2Z5q--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/17lekxznhs96njpg.jpg

♬ it's patsy! patsy! she really wants to be your friend ♬

didn't notice on first viewing that JJ tries to refer someone to "Angela Del Toro," another detective (and currently White Tiger in the Marvel U)

Boo-urns: http://www.slashfilm.com/jessica-jones-season-2-2018/

*flips table*

THEY CAN REVIVE STUPID FUCKING FULL HOUSE BUT THEY CAN'T MAKE AGENT CARTER WORK?

I HATE THIS WORLD

Guys, guys, that article is from six months ago. There are Inhumans and Cloak & Dagger shows coming now to fill the holez in your soulz.

so

Is there anyone on this entire earth who cares about the inhumans?

old lunch iirc

Kirby Inhumans are Kool (a good friend of mine owns the original of this page, have spent many happy hours looking at it)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dI-2fWdYvic/UjELZ6_zr9I/AAAAAAAA1nk/9-UzEfdeuH4/s1600/Amazing_Adventures_03_01.jpg

They look cool, but I don't think they've ever been particularly interesting as characters, at least when they're supposed to carry the story and not just appear as supporting players (like in Kirby's FF stories or War of Kings). Oddly enough, one of the the best stories featuring them was when Gorgon and Karnak appeared in Ann Nocenti's Daredevil.

the only inhuman that matters is this giant slobbery hero-dog

http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/ms-marvel-8-lockjaw.png

i'd pay good money for a timehopping agent carter / ms marvel / lockjaw buddy tv show

I do care about the Inhumans! But I also think that they ('they' being the royal family, specifically) are best utilized in a larger ensemble rather than as central characters. But this thing is supposed to be a limited series so it'll probably be fine.

Holding out hope for a Ms. Marvel & Lockjaw movie. It's time, Marvel.

Wasn't it at some point retconned (by Byrne?) that Lockjaw is actually a regular humanoid Inhuman who was turned into a dog form by the Terrigen Mists? And yet for some reason everyone kept treating him like an animal.

lockjaw is a big adorable teleporting doggie and john fuckin' byrne of all people is not gonna tell me any different

xpost It was Peter David in an issue of Hulk. Someone told the Thing that story at Rick Jones's bachelor party but it was never made clear if they were just fucking with him.

I can't remember what I had for dinner last night but thank god those details are still safely locked away in my brain.

oh god, rick jones' birthday party is stuck in my brain too. that's where i learned the word 'ecdysiast'!

the inhuman royal family is weird and fun

a ton of inhumans running around and being pretty much the same as mutants is dumb

as for lockjaw being weird, there is an inhuman who looks like a huge portal device that also kind of teleports people

Black Bolt's real name is Blackagar Boltagon. This renders all naysayers invalid.

I used to love the Inhumans when I was a kid in the 70s, all stemming from some stickers in a Marvel bubblegum pack that had Kirby illos of Black Bolt and Gorgon (also Dread Dormammu and Mysterio, see also soft spot for them) and a Top Trumps Marvel rip-off: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marvel-Super-Heroes-Top-Trumps-from-1977/222326255823?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38661%26meid%3Dc32e225eebd84af381640e19834007be%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D302154310788

They've been very poorly treated by Marvel over the years but actually the past year has been pretty good surrounding CWII - the Karnak series was pretty great and I am really enjoying Uncanny Inhumans.

here we go, Eldrac the door
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldrac

Thank you. Kept wanting to say Randac but that's another Inhuman who is not a door.

Because he's a jar.

I just saw a picture of Eldrac with legs and a body and I am wondering if this is canon, wtf

Eldrac can teleport anyone to any location upon entering his mouth.

worst pick-up line ever

i'd like an eldrac the door / danny the street crossover pls

That's the first time I've read any specific info on which of Eldrac's orifices is enabled for teleportation.

I have no idea what's going on here but it's pretty funny

https://moviepilot-res.cloudinary.com/images/c_limit,q_auto,w_710/s7q024lw30emnslds2ta/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-season-3-s-expansion-upon-inhumans.jpg
https://moviepilot-res.cloudinary.com/images/c_limit,q_auto,w_710/dbpuxc8lyqs2ifok12fe/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-season-3-s-expansion-upon-inhumans.jpg

I'm incrementally more interested in these Inhumans comics, now

?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38661%26meid%3Dc32e225eebd84af381640e19834007be%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D302154310788

Old Lunch: Later on in an issue of Peter David's X-Factor Quicksilver r

Urgh. -revealed that a cpl of Inhumans were just being dicks cos they knew Thing would be all empathetic to poor Lockjaw stuck in a dog's form. That X-Factor run was great, imo.

Ohhhh, yeah, thanks. I thought there was a follow-up to that.

Yeah - Byrne retconned Lockjaw to be an Inhuman transformed into a dog by the Terrigen mists (Thing issue #3), then 8 years later Peter David reversed it in his X-Factor run.

Here's a recap of the relevant Thing issue... Even among Byrne's questionable retcons, this one is pretty stupid, because like I said, it doesn't explain why all the Inhumans have been treating Lockjaw like a pet if he's actually their equal?

And David pointed that out when he reversed the retcon:

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans21/XFAC71_Lockjaw.jpg

Though of course this could also be just a case of David taking potshots at Byrne due to their long-standing feud (which started when Byrne thought David had spoiled the shock ending of Alpha Flight #12).

Byrne never GAF about anyone's continuity but his own.

Every year I'm less sure of the idea that Byrne ever had any ideas of note

he's certainly spent the last 25 years or so doing everything he can to destroy any remaining goodwill comics fans might have for him

although hate-reading the byrne robotics boards every now and again is a source of grim entertainment for me tbh

'Of note' is debatable, but I still really enjoy his Superman reboot (minus maybe like the whole gross Big Barda mind control sex tape thing).

the superman reboot def of note in that it set the tone for at least a decade of superman stories, as well as mostly being a fun read in itself, and established important worldbuilding stuff like businessman luthor and maggie sawyer

Byrne reboot into the triangle-era is possibly my favorite run of straight-up superheroin' DC comics.

yeah, me too. up to death of superman or thereabouts was a lot of fun. post-crisis dc was largely really good for a fairly long period, which makes the seemingly inexhaustible supply of garbage they've been pumping out since the mid-2000s even more lamentable :(

I liked some of the stuff he brought to FF, but

he's certainly spent the last 25 years or so doing everything he can to destroy any remaining goodwill comics fans might have for him

is OTM.

I heard that Byrne made faces at Marv Wolfman in court.

Erik Larsen is a fan of early Byrne but they've had quite a lot of feuds, mostly online. In Savage Dragon there's a character called Johnny Redbeard who creates ripoffs like She Dragon (Byrne had a popular run of She Hulk) and The Nixed Men (Byrne created Next Men). Johnny Redbeard starts off looking tall, impressive and commanding but eventually ends up looking just like Modok with a huge head and his creations become increasingly absurd. I'm amazed people haven't made more of this and I think Larsen ended up trying to play it down (I might be misremembering)

i love u guys but i keep opening this bookmark & it keeps not being abt jessica jones & it's kind of a bummer <3

*kicks dirt*

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WuBsM3rB4ko/VmXjayZvypI/AAAAAAAADHs/DnknGoSDNfQ/s1600/jessica-jones.gif

:D

March 8! /finally

yay

Hope you dont have to have watched Defenders to follow the plot.

i’d doubt it

Considering you could've followed the plot of the Defenders without having watched the Defenders, I wouldn't worry.

'Dudes and dudettes team up and defeat the Hand'

(sorry 4 spoilers)

The trailer doesn't seem to allude to any of the Defender's idiotic nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSvnepZS26s

Defenders was only slightly better than Iron Fist, in case you're on the fence and looking for someone to tell you that you don't need to bother. Watching Punisher right now (like seriously as I type) and it's soooooo much better. I'm choosing to assume the last two shows were an unfortunate hiccup.

nah Netflix Marvel is mostly crap

I half liked S1 but that trailer looks terrible

No way are they going to come up with another villain as good as Killgrave.

"are you a vigilante superhero?!"

Dropped on a Thursday! Surprising. Watched a few until exhaustion took over. It's alright, nothing earth-shattering, easily clears the low bar of Iron Fist at the very least. Second Netflix Marvel joint in a row featuring a formerly-MIA supporting cast member of The Sopranos in another supporting role.

watched the first episode... they have learned nothing. New York is still an unpopulated wasteland, every scene is still two people talking, and Netflix Jessica is still a two-dimensional waste of a great character.

of course I’ll keep watching.

they have learned nothing

bodes well for iron fist season two

Not sure if I will watch this. Really liked series 1, but a lot of that was the excellent villain.

OTM. It was his show.

bizzaro, the dude from Dexter has been thankfully tossed out on his ear after showrunning Iron Fist season 1 and The Inhumans into the ground.

jesus i'd forgotten the inhumans ever happened

Generally speaking, the MCU has been way too eager about killing off dece villains. Unless my far-fetched theory that Thanos + Death/Hela are going to resurrect them at some point pans out, IDGI.

I watched more than I expected to last night and they seem to, once again, have it set up so that the main arc ends several episodes before the end so there’s a couple hours of lingering subplot. I’m not sure why they keep doing this.

Inhumans and Runaways (why because I'm cheap) are still the only MCU things I haven't watched.

jesus i'd forgotten runaways ever happened

Don't forget, there's an impending Cloak & Dagger series for you to soon forget the existence of.

Do u Scots even get Freeform? How did you watch Secret Life of the American Teenager?

i assume freeform is some kind of american feminine hygiene product, not sure what the relevance is to this conversation tbh

we have to torrent tslotat obv

Seems like a hassle but at least you got to experience the defining cultural product of a generation.

Freeform's expansion into television has been surprisingly successful. I just wish they'd scale back the product placement at least to the point where it made sense (hint: teenage boys do not generally carry around prominently-displayed boxes of pantyliners for even their best lady friends).

i am given to understand freeform's tampon-cannon is very popular at live events such as state fairs, taffy pulls and barn-raisings

You just used three names to describe the same event, you Ameri-dummy (see also: jelly offs, hog rassles).

Re-railing the train: I both identified Whizzer and predicted the alternate employment of his nickname immediately after he mentioned super speed and I noticed the color of his hoodie. Fastest nerd on the couch, that's me.

look i'm doing my best to understand the backward social customs of yr heathen colonial culture, cut me some slack here

well this wasn't very good. lowlight was probably the lesbian whorgy where jeri takes superpoppers.

yeah i’m only half invested in this

6 episodes in, bored and irritated but somehow i'll hatewatch the whole thing which is more than i can say for defenders

the first 6 are the worst, on the bright side.

^^^ summing up the marvel TVverse in one sentence

Second season features the most nightmarish tv proposal ever

finally got around to finishing season two with all the enthusiasm of someone clearing a beehive from their shed six months after it appeared

this season was very, very bad, folks

It was nowhere near as good as the first, I can agree.

Whoever proposed on one of these threads that the Netflix seasons should be cut down to maybe like 6-8 episodes was suuuuuuuper OTM. I mean...why thirteen? They've demonstrated with every outing that they don't have enough material for a solid thirteen-episode season. Every outing winds up feeling threadbare and wheel-spinny at some point. Just tighten it up, folks. Trim the fat.

As I do with most of the world's problems, I blame Loeb.

yeah, it just drrrrraaaaaagged on for so long with so little material

krysten ritter def seemed to have less to work with this season too - any progress jessica seemed to have made as a person in s1 was right out the window

Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note that this show's 2019 season is nominated in the 2019 ILX TV poll:

ILX's Best Television of 2019 Poll / VOTING AND CAMPAIGNING THREAD / Voting Ends January 31

If you like this show and you'd like to see it have a good showing in the poll (running in February) all you need to do is submit a ballot including it and your other favorites (4 minimum, 25 maximum, organized by your favorite to least favorite) to forksclovetofu at gmail by end of day today. It'll take five minutes; get to it!