HIRALLY CLIMPS FOR PRESIDETN • US presidential elections part VII

http://i.imgur.com/VMKRGGt.png

Tim Kaine, DNC, silly season, who knows

http://66.media.tumblr.com/d06d1672991c7c00cccd0642975d56ea/tumblr_o8ipvp9Ie71qdmmiqo1_400.gif http://66.media.tumblr.com/72175417a15e94b675b0387b83d04a47/tumblr_o8ipvp9Ie71qdmmiqo2_400.gif

at this point Trump's vision of America reminds me of the sorts of rants that MRAs regularly go on, like yes there is some (minimal) internal logic there but the vision they describe in no way reminds me of the actual world we live in. I would imagine most of the people moved by the RNC are going to continue living in the actual world and forget why they were so angry come November *fingers crossed, pretty please*

Finally a new thread.

Can't believe (I mean, I can--he seems a tad vindictive) Trump is still wasting time on Cruz. Whatever you thought of the speech last night, the one tactical decision I thought was smart was not even mentioning Cruz. I assumed that was the last you'd hear of him. Now, if I understand the story correctly, Trump re-opens that.

shitty thread title

she took that orange thing down hardcore damn

isn't the obvious thing for Hilary to just say that 'America is still great - why does Trump think it's not? where's his patriotism?'

simple bit of logic to reply to that dumb as shit slogan of his

Can't believe (I mean, I can--he seems a tad vindictive) Trump is still wasting time on Cruz. Whatever you thought of the speech last night, the one tactical decision I thought was smart was not even mentioning Cruz. I assumed that was the last you'd hear of him. Now, if I understand the story correctly, Trump re-opens that.

― clemenza, Friday, July 22, 2016 11:30 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if trump stays on script for one day then necessarily hell explode the next cause of all the built up resentment

lol hes so nuts https://twitter.com/JGreenDC/status/756507351667007489

xxpost She has said exactly that.

depressed about thread title

I like the thread title, but maybe you had to be there

mike pence's expression is fucking priceless in that video

I guess maybe you kinda did, it was pretty great at the time xp

i think its good dont listen to the haters also every jokey long winded thread title is the worst

I like the hockey thread titles, never clicked on the hockey thread tho

Ornaldo sends his regards, so does the elephant.

re: that cruz/jfk clip, he really is bonkers, and he talks like he is bonkers, and how could anyone hear this man talk and not think, 'Dangerously Bonkers'

What is the reference in the thread title? It's not ringing a bell.

ORNALDO BLOOMPS FOR PRESIDETN

ORNALDO BLOOMPS FOR PRESIDETN

it's a reference to hal holbrook in all the presidetn's men

the ornaldo thread title was also the worst. however lagoon is otm long jokey thread titles are the co-worst.

DAMMNNN

All credit to emil.y

Hillary Clinton just said 'delete your account' on twitter to Trump and the internet exploded. What (old) meme should she use next?

did anyone watch the debate years ago when hildogg had to debate that dude for her first run for senate and all the republicans sent was some guy who sounded like mickey mouse and couldn't make a point to save his life?

kind of hope we get one of those at some point but it's prob not likely :(

re: that cruz/jfk clip, he really is bonkers, and he talks like he is bonkers, and how could anyone hear this man talk and not think, 'Dangerously Bonkers'

the way he moves and holds his body is like he's being controlled by a singularly inept puppeteer

ORNALDO BLOOMPS FOR PRESIDETN He took down that elephant thing HARDCORE. DAMMMNNN. is classic and still amusing to this day imo

Cruz's thing about Trump disrespecting his wife and father gives Cruz a (fleeting) Gary Cooper gravitas, and leaves Trump looking like Jack Elam.

did anyone watch the debate years ago when hildogg had to debate that dude for her first run for senate and all the republicans sent was some guy who sounded like mickey mouse and couldn't make a point to save his life?

kind of hope we get one of those at some point but it's prob not likely :(

― mh

uh the GOP just nominated him

Cruz's thing about Trump disrespecting his wife and father gives Cruz a (fleeting) Gary Cooper gravitas, and leaves Trump looking like Jack Elam.

― woke newt (stevie), Friday, July 22, 2016 11:52 AM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i dont know who any of those ppl are are they canadian politicians?

it's a reference to hal holbrook in all the presidetn's men

Good one...the transposed letters are a little confusing in view of the thread title, but funny.

Jack Elam was briefly premier of Nova Scotia in the mid-'90s.

https://twitter.com/IvankaTrump/status/756492146484580352

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn9doH4WIAA1Etd.jpg

thread title is also good by default inasmuch as anything else you could imagine the usual suspects coming up with would have been much worse

https://twitter.com/IvankaTrump/status/756492146484580352

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, July 22, 2016 11:56 AM (29 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

woow srsly fn affiliate marketing PartnerID=LINKSHARE&cm_mmc=LINKSHARE-_-5-_-63-_-MP563

true enough xp

That Manson excerpt is brilliant.

The purpose of that might be more to subtly make her look populist (see, a $138 dress from Macy's, not like that Clinton with her Armani!) than to get paid clicks.

naw if we know one thing abt the trump family business strategy its that its all penny ante

oh wait nm I see it's an Ivanka Trump BRAND dress, durr.

missed that

“They have a picture, an old picture, having breakfast with Lee Harvey Oswald. Now, I’m not saying anything. They said — and here’s how the press takes this story. So this has nothing to do with me. Except I may have pointed it out. But it had nothing to do with me! I have no control over anything! I might have pointed it out. But they never denied it. Did anybody even deny it was the father? Did anybody ever say, ‘oh, that’s not really my father’? That’s a little hard to do because it looks like him. So here’s the story. The press takes that and says, Donald Trump and his conspiracy theories. He went out and said his father was with Lee Harvey Oswald and he assassinated the president. What did I do?” “I know nothing about his father. I knew nothing about Lee Harvey Oswald. But there was a picture on the front page of the National Enquirer which does have credibility, and they’re not going to do pictures like that, because they get sued for a lot of money if things are wrong. Okay? A lot of money. And there’s a picture. And that’s the only thing I know.”

Amazing.

oh wait nm I see it's an Ivanka Trump BRAND dress, durr.

― socka flocka-jones (man alive), Friday, July 22, 2016 12:01 PM (57 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol shes double dipping

Amazing.

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, July 22, 2016 12:02 PM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

twitter link i posted upthread is a video of this, really worth watching hes one loony ass ham

Possibly involved in double-murder.

http://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Screen-Shot-2016-06-10-at-2.02.19-PM.png

wtf is going on with trump's eyebrows there

this is the worst thread title.

he had them gelled

in 2016 the gop presidential candidate for president will defend the journalistic integrity of the national enquirer

i have seen that style of groomed eyebrow on buffoonish rich men a few times

trump must have been so pissed about having to wait 36 hours to bash ted cruz

it was killing him def

kinda amazing he didnt ad lib something during his keynote

wld be cool if cruz continued to antagonize trump for the rest of the campaign

Taking a break from Trump for a couple of seconds, Evan Bayh and Russ Feingold - how common is it for senators or congressmen to quit for a few years, and then return (I presume well-rested and enriched)? Are there others this cycle getting back into the game?

fiengold didnt quit he lost

the ornaldo thread title was also the worst.

― The bald Phil Collins impersonator cash grab (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, July 22, 2016 10:50 AM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what the fuck. you think you know a guy, and then...

xpost Yeah, but then he declined to run again, no?

he took that ilx meme down hardcore

Oh, wait, I see what I thought. He lost, but then declined various calls for him to run for other stuff - gov, press, etc. He lost in 2010, so I guess this is just his first op to run for senate again?

Anyway, back to Trump. I hope he spends the rest of his days on earth ripping on Cruz. Like, no one will tell him he's lost, or what month/year/day it is. He'll just keep going and going until he dies.

so since open bigotry is now mainstream, david duke is crawling back up out of the mouth of hell to run for US senate as a republican.

is it too much to ask that a meteor collide with earth in late october and end all of this?

his first attempt at election in ~20 years and one federal prison stint. what a time to be alive

did not watch a second of this, but followed dutifully along on twitter. sounded like a true moment of political vertigo, unprecedented. i've been meaning to pull up the cspan youtubes and see how much i can stand but idk

two minor weird, dumb things on my mind:

weird: one of trump's hand gesture tics, the "a-ok" circle w/ 3 fingers up, has become a kind of "gang sign" among far right dudes.

dumb: tech/media people trying to figure out why right-libertarian weirdo gay billionaire peter thiel is such a trump fan. he HATES IMMIGRATION. it's right in front of us. duh. the blindness about it seems like a retread of the early primaries where the media couldn't get a handle on trump's support. IMMIGRATION. DUH.

Under Louisiana's jungle primary system, all candidates will appear on the same ballot, regardless of party and voters may vote for any candidate, regardless of their party affiliation. If no candidate receives a majority of the vote during the primary election, a runoff election will be held on December 3 between the top two candidates in the primary. Louisiana is the only state that has a jungle primary system (California and Washington have a similar "top two primary" system).

Jungle primary!

possible thread title

jungle primary is just "no primary with a 2-way runoff if necessary", right?

dumb: tech/media people trying to figure out why right-libertarian weirdo gay billionaire peter thiel is such a trump fan. he HATES IMMIGRATION. it's right in front of us. duh. the blindness about it seems like a retread of the early primaries where the media couldn't get a handle on trump's support. IMMIGRATION. DUH.

ugh didn't he say his parents came to the us when he was one? fuck these people. they all get successful then want to pull the ladder up behind them so nobody else can.

LOVE this thread title, let's keep it until the election

weird: one of trump's hand gesture tics, the "a-ok" circle w/ 3 fingers up, has become a kind of "gang sign" among far right dudes.

It always looks like he is pulling an imaginary zipper up and down to me

looking forward to facebook et al finally distancing themselves from thiel on grounds of technical details of H-1B policy, not that he's a nihilist crank who rolls with fascists

I wonder if Mike Pence literally prayed about his potential VP role and then, confident in God's vision, joined the ticket blind, without even meeting Trump. And now that he's hitched to the Trump train, he's privately reevaluating his relationship with God. I mean, his reported Trumpdar sounded more than a little like Bush's looking into Putin's eyes and seeing his good soul.

ugh didn't he say his parents came to the us when he was one? fuck these people. they all get successful then want to pull the ladder up behind them so nobody else can.

― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Friday, July 22, 2016 11:43 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

peter thiel, and presumably his parents, are white

"The Night I Fired Donald Trump"

I run over. He’s up there again! I go (gives the come here gesture). We go into the hallway. I said, “Donald. You lied. You broke your promise. One of two things is going to happen. You’re going to leave the building and, at 6:40, The Rolling Stones are going to speak on CBS News, or you’re not going to leave the building and I’m going to go on and do an interview to explain to the world why the pay-per-view was canceled. I know it’s your building and…” – and in my head I’m going, this is so crazy, right? I’m trying to throw Donald Trump out of his own building.

But, anyway, the bottom line is I look at Donald and said, “You and Marla (Maples) have to go. You’re fired.” He looks at me and goes berserk.

“You don’t know anything! Your guys suck! I promote Mike Tyson! I promote heavyweight fights!” And I notice the three shtarkers he’s with, in trench coats, two of them are putting on gloves and the other one is putting on brass knuckles. I go on the walkie-talkie and I call for Jim Callahan, who was head of our security, and I go, “Jim, I think I’m in a bit of trouble.” And he says, “Just turn around.”

I turn around. He’s got 40 of the crew with tire irons and hockey sticks and screwdrivers.

“And now, are you gonna go, Donald?”

And off he went.

And that was the night I fired Donald Trump.

http://www.pollstar.com/news_article.aspx?ID=819781

the most interesting thing i heard trump say last night was something about tearing up trade deals or whatever, deals that were thousands of pages long and no one in this country understands. we're idiots, i get that, but still that's a little insulting!

Over at his blog, The Resurgent, RedState.com founder Erick Erickson wrote that "Cheeto Jesus" effectively killed the "spirit of entrepreneurship" and American exceptionalism in his speech accepting the GOP nomination.

"I’m sure in the original German the speech had some nuances that were commendable," he wrote. "The Republican Party is officially now the party of Trump. Instead of happy warriors, they are angry, bitter bigots...That anger is not going to attract anyone, so they will bully and browbeat."

ok fuck erick son of erick forever but "cheeto jesus" is hilarious.

Cruz's thing about Trump disrespecting his wife and father gives Cruz a (fleeting) Gary Cooper gravitas, and leaves Trump looking like Jack Elam.

― woke newt (stevie), Friday, July 22, 2016 11:52 AM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i dont know who any of those ppl are are they canadian politicians?

― lag∞n

ok you asked for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcBBemS-HRk

anybody want to place odds on whether pence will make it on the ticket until november?

http://i.imgur.com/BkSi5Vh.jpg

trump doing romney numbers

does that count online streaming?

idk

tho it does say broadcast

that might just reflect continued decline in audience for broadcast TV

trump doesn't realise there's any news media other than cable news and the major networks though, so that's got to hurt

Jungle primary, O E O E O

streaming prob still p small for something like this thats available everywhere

Gotta say Clinton retweeting Martin Shrekli's endorsement of Trump in the middle of his speech was pretty genius

her tweet team is def on fleek

the instareadout on youtube last night during his speech only had a couple few hundred thousand viewers

I think that's a strategy that's going to do well for her, deal with him using humor and give the impression that you don't take him seriously. You almost can't hit the guy on policy, because he doesn't have any.

I don't think it would work for her (bc misogyny), but during the primary, Jeb! might've had a fighting chance if he went to one of the debates and just said "Go fuck yourself, Donald."

"Shut the fuck up, Donnie!"

(bc misogyny)

I think it would work for her and I don't get what you mean here.

wow

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/22/12258324/trump-attack-ted-cruz-transcript

xp Women's anger reads differently to men's.

Just a great debater except he lost in every single poll in every single debate.

Sometimes his double-speak is legitimately hilarious.

Two other things, just to finish with Ted because I like Ted. He’s fine.

Again, I don’t want his endorsement. If he gives it, I will not accept it. Just so you understand. I will not accept it. It won’t matter. Honestly, he should have done it because nobody cares and he would have been in better shape for four years from now if he’s gonna— I don’t see him winning anyway, frankly. But if he did, it’s fine.

Although maybe I’ll set up a super PAC if he decides to run. Are you allowed to set up a super PAC, Mike, if you are the president to fight somebody?

[Mike Pence shakes his head and mouths the word ‘no’]

ahh, this is the good stuff:

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/07/ana-navarro-rips-trumps-disgusting-speech

that vox thing... is that parody or transcript? i honestly cannot tell.

because nobody cares and he would have been in better shape for four years from now if he’s gonna— I don’t see him winning anyway, frankly

uh, is he saying that he's going to lose so cruz will be running again in 4 years?

I think he's imagining a Cruz primary challenge to Presidetn Trump 2020. In his mind, he's already won this election, it's the bag, the ratings were through the roof.

Ana Navarro is a hack who would love to marry Marco Rubio tho

Thanks for the dn, Vox transcript.

oops missed the close-quote

Just a great debater except he lost in every single poll in every single debate.

Sometimes his double-speak is legitimately hilarious.

This is intended to be funny, though.

Wondering what Trump is doing on the first day of the General Election? Currently, he's insisting that Ted Cruz's father may have killed JFK
— Kevin Feeney (@KevinMFeeney) July 22, 2016

trump still being preoccupied with cruz fits trump's personality to a tee. the more you see of him, the more obvious it is that his neuroses are in the driver's seat

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/03/donald_trump_has_one_core_philosophy_misogyny.html

this is a good piece

The joy he takes in humiliating women is not something he even bothers to disguise. He told the journalist Timothy L. O’Brien, “My favorite part [of the movie Pulp Fiction] is when Sam has his gun out in the diner and he tells the guy to tell his girlfriend to shut up. Tell that bitch to be cool. Say: ‘Bitch be cool.’ I love those lines.” Or as he elegantly summed up his view to New York magazine in the early ’90s, “Women, you have to treat them like shit.”

If Cruz actively continues to needle him and cause him to fly off the rails then I will honestly become a Ted Cruz fan

If you go to that Crooks and Liars Ana Navarro link, you've got to look at Van Jones' face before you hit play on the clip.

While he celebrates his own sexuality, he believes that female sexuality has spun out of control and needs to be contained. The best example of this view is a reality show called Lady or a Tramp, which Trump developed for Fox but never aired. The premise of the show was that Trump would take “girls in love with the party life” and send them off for a “stern course” on manners. “We are all sick and tired of the glamorization of these out-of-control young women,” he told Variety, “so I have taken it upon myself to do something about it.”

Lady or a Tramp was based on a British show called Ladette to Lady, here's the Variety comparison of the two shows.

"[On Ladette to Lady] Girls are required to wear tweed skirts and pearl necklaces, and taught the finer points of skills like flower arranging and needlework.

Contestants then face challenges in those areas, with one girl expelled from the school at the end of each episode.

'Tramp' will follow a similar format and also show ample footage of the girls partying."

I've been surprised at the sheer volume of stupid and crass things associated with Trump

As someone whose physical being is comprised of pure id, I'm genuinely baffled at his general ability to have maintained just enough self-control during this election season to refrain from publicly using any of the big pejoratives that would effectively end his campaign. I guess he still has a little while.

his end goal is to keep being on tv for the next 10 years, so he knows his boundaries I think

jesus christ @ that Vox transcript

also wow Ana Navarro was mad

To be fair, that idiot Trump guy she was arguing with, every time I've seen him speak I've wanted to punch him in the face.

the washington post has seen enough

I'm glad she shut down that "What is wrong with having sympathy for people who are murdered?" line, that truly is disgusting

Wow, that Post non endorsement. When was the last time something like that ran in a major paper? Will it be the last we read this season?

doubt it

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn_weyrWIAARlM4.jpg:small

my local paper, which is a gannett publication, has really stopped giving a fuck about the "cover both sides" bullshit that has plagued journalism recently and has been publishing mostly editorials with the general tone of "this guy is really fucking horrible and dumb"

HuffPo has its problems, but I respect its policy of closing every article that mentions Trump with the disclaimer:

Editor’s note: Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims ― 1.6 billion members of an entire religion ― from entering the U.S.

Personal note: I come from a family of journalists, I went to journalism school, I've worked for newspapers and magazines for 20 years. I am reasonably well-versed in the principles of the profession. Balance, fairness, "objectivity" - those don't mean that Both Sides Do It has to be the default angle, or that the truth must be precisely halfway between the positions of major political parties. The "On the other hand, Mr. Hitler contends..." style is just tedious and I see no good reason to continue it. Especially since the right is not ever going to believe that the media is anything other than hopelessly biased against them, so why try?

That "lady and tramp" show existed, just without Trump - it was on VH1 and it was called Charm School.

How's Trump going to take people going after him in primetime for 4 days straight next week?

By tweeting?

he's probably going to either call into one of the networks or otherwise try to do some sort of direct counterprogramming.

cable networks, I mean,

The "On the other hand, Mr. Hitler contends..." style

over 100 edits to tim kaine's wiki page in the past week: https://twitter.com/nicktheandersen/status/756475346220908544

wonder who the biggest name republican to publicly declare for hillary will be

schwarzenegger

some desperate ass senator in a close race

i'd be desperate too if i were an ass senator

some centrists will jump ship like i cld see a blue state senator like collins or whoever but im looking for a v srs conservative to flip out of shear disgust and fear

I could see Graham or McCain.

i'd be desperate too if i were an ass senator

― mookieproof, Friday, July 22, 2016 4:38 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

an ass senator...in the sexual congress

bush wld be awesome "this guys nuts and my paw dont like him either" pappy vaguely gestures from his chair

they still want george p bush to be president one day, so they will not be disloyal to the party that way imo

the bush family name is dirt forget abt bushes its over no one likes you

I could see Graham or McCain.

― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF)

mccain? the guy who thinks that obama literally supports terrorists? fuck no.

yeah, no way McCain is jumping ship, that guy's only a "moderate" on like 2 issues. He's really just a guy who excels at getting media attention by seeming like the "reasonable" conservative. Also, he's up for re-election this year, and he needs the deep red xenophobic base of Arizona to win.

I say this as an AZ resident, he's in a race he will win, but one that will be tighter than previous races. There's no benefit for him to back off of Trump, who he's already endorsed

McCain is the dude that some Dems inexplicably say they like cos of some things he said in 2000 that were supposedly coherent but weren't actually that big of a deal

the guy is also going to die next year. I suspect Poppy Bush will die before this year's election and tip the election Hils' way.

The only thing McCain has done recently that I approve of is apologizing (mildly and years too late) for his egregious pandering to South Carolina racists and confederate flag lovers during the 2008 primary election.

cld see mcain flipping hes a major grumpus "doesnt suffer fools" wld help him in the general in a big latino state + prob his last race, trump insulted his sacred war hero status

he's going to form the Oldpublican party and we'll be back to a three major party system

I wasn't suggesting either of these dudes was a reasonable person or a moderate.

Never 4get the '88 GOP primary:

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/republican-presidential-hopefuls-pat-robertson-robert-j-dole-jack-f-picture-id50361812

Al Haig!

i don't even know who that is between HW and kemp

buncha fun guys

Pierre S. du Pont IV

xp It's Pierre Samuel "Pete" du Pont IV

cld see mcain flipping hes a major grumpus "doesnt suffer fools" wld help him in the general in a big latino state + prob his last race, trump insulted his sacred war hero status

― lag∞n

ok, you're absolutely right, i forgot, he's a "maverick"! he could do anything! gosh, who doesn't want to support a human slot machine? :)

John McCain would be giving his Senate seat away if he un-endorses Trump and endorses Clinton, the GOP base in AZ would absolutely abandon him and Ann Kirkpatrick would take that seat.

Yeah, AZ has a large Latino population, but it's got a little bit of the Mississippi issue, where the white population, which is still the majority statewide, trends much more conservative, and keeps any statewide seats in Republican hands. I live here, and while every other state in the southwest has spent the last 15 years becoming more moderate as demographics change, AZ is doing that at much slower pace.

maverick John McCain:

https://silentarchimedes.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/bush-mccain-hug-72-thumb.jpg

the only senator who I can see endorsing Clinton is Mark Kirk, everyone else is too afraid of losing this year by abandoning the base or getting primaried in future years

Yeah, AZ has a large Latino population, but it's got a little bit of the Mississippi issue, where the white population, which is still the majority statewide, trends much more conservative, and keeps any statewide seats in Republican hands. I live here, and while every other state in the southwest has spent the last 15 years becoming more moderate as demographics change, AZ is doing that at much slower pace.

― intheblanks, Friday, July 22, 2016 10:29 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

az is also full of transplants from the midwest.. a friend of mine worked at intuit in tempe and like every single person she worked with went to ohio state and moved the phoenix after graduating.

Your friend otm, only Nevada has more out of state transplants. I do feel like a ton of Ohioans end up here, way more than my home state of illinois

kaine pick official

Woo go Virginia

I mean go Northern Virginia

Tim Kaine! I'm surprised! A bold choice! I'm so excited!

dude seems like the merrick garland of vp picks - solid dude who everyone likes that nobody on the left is down with being nominated

Imagine if Tim Kaine was as exciting as Merrick Garland.

hillary txted me "kaine is bae" ??

what vp pick would have made bernie supporters happy?

Bernie

can't wait for all the "citizen kaine" jokes

mookieproof
Posted: July 22, 2016 at 6:28:09 PM
what vp pick would have made bernie supporters happy?

warren

DAMMM

srsly doubt either bernie or warren wanted it

liz thirsty for the v presidency def

They should let HRC be the republican and Warren the democrat win win

I'm calling it - Terry McAuliffe for Senate
It'll totally look like a payoff and they'll totally be oblivious to how it looks

Can he appoint himself?

idk Tim Kaine looks like a guy who will waver and fall after chugging an Irish car bomb at one of those campaign stops

Tombot, can you re-link to that article you posted earlier about Kaine? I can't find it.

@BillKristol
It would be great if, when he's VP, Kaine launches a mutiny against Clinton. After all, he is more able.

lol

Bill Kristol, the Loki of politics

Alfred: Curb Your Authoritarianism? The 2016 Conventional Wisdom Thread (Elections, Part 6)

I'm calling it - Terry McAuliffe for Senate

It'll totally look like a payoff and they'll totally be oblivious to how it looks

Lock

thanks!

xpost

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/29402427.jpg

Tim Kaine, the affable ideologue

for convenience's sake

more like tim LAME

can't wait for all the "citizen kaine" jokes
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.)

Yeah. Campaign goes well, 50 million "Citizen Kaine" headlines. Campaign falls apart, 50 million "The Kaine Mutiny" headlines.

Uh-oh: Bill Kristol's beating me to jokes.

DON: Well, yeah.

Lotsa people been liking this piece

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/krystal-ball/the-progressive-case-for-_2_b_10773840.html

Have also seen the interesting speculation of Kaine to VP, McAuliffe to the Senate, and - here's where it gets interesting if you're interested in Va. democratic politics - Lt. Gov. Northam both finishes McAuliffe's term and then is subsequently elected governor in his own right - giving him unprecedented tenure in that term-limited, relatively weak position.

So (including Warner) you'd have a passel of Democrats with serious leverage, hailing from a state that led the old Confederacy, then became a swing state, then has become blue. If this template were to be repeated in a few other places, it could upend the GOP stranglehold on the South.

Talking a generation or so away, but yeah, the thought has crossed my mind a time or two.

Steve Hayes, that Weeily Standard minion on FOX News, said he liked Tim Kaine a couple hours ago and couldn't think of a single conservative ideologue who disliked him or didn't mind working with him.

i don't know much about kaine, but y or n: will he wipe the floor with pence at the veep debates?

huh it looks like krystal ball is the author's given name. rad.

reading the piece now

@JenGranholm
.@timkaine is as decent, honorable, selfless soul as you will ever meet. A man with the heart of a servant, who is "woke".

so there's that

tim kaine more like woke mane

nomar, neither one has much of a debate track record.

Kaine is not a gifted orator - I thought his SOTU response delivery was lame and rushed - but he's clearly able to connect with people when needed, as he's never lost an election. Also the Clinton campaign can afford good coaching.

xp he's decently woke but it would be a stretch to name him among the wokest of baes.

woke worker bae

finished the huffpo article and decided to be convinced by it for now

Boring pick but I get it

finished the huffpo article and decided to be convinced by it for now

― Treeship, Friday, July 22, 2016 8:18 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it me

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/here-are-six-things-you-probably-dont-know-about-vp-pick-tim-kaine/

I know this is dumb but I got really excited at "accomplished tenor"

(countertenor joke)

I went to a Jesuit catholic school and am totally agnostic but I respect their game.

A Marist brothers school graduate right up in here.

@JenGranholm
.@timkaine is as decent, honorable, selfless soul as you will ever meet. A man with the heart of a servant, who is "woke". @HillaryClinton

http://images.politico.com/global/2012/03/jenhood620.jpg

Trump up to 42% according to 538, fuck it all

gawker creeping my posts

http://i.imgur.com/GyoknXG.png

i thought u were gawker and that all gawker content were the various manifestations of your psyche

Trump up to 42% according to 538, fuck it all

― frogbs,

convention bump nonsense

dead cat hair piece bounce

convention bounce froggy, will mitigate shortly, breathe
xp never mind everyone already said it

for a boring Tim Kaine sure blows a mean harp

i thought u were gawker and that all gawker content were the various manifestations of your psyche

― 6 god none the richer (m bison), Friday, July 22, 2016 11:13 PM (52 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hmm cld be have to look into it sort of like that movie fight club which is cool

Is Tim Kaine good or bad, have seen both opinions on Twitter and now I don't know who to believe

ive only read the article which says he is good so now i tihnk hes good but later i will prob read one that says hes bad

So like can Terry McA actually appoint himself to the senate

breaking: bad

Is Tim Kaine good or bad

false binary

mostly i 1 dont think it really matters 2 am proud of hillary for picking a popular politician from a swing state which is what every vp pick shd be every time but is somehow usually not

Remember what's his face

Lieberman

my god the absolute worst what a fn worthless being

kaine is better than lieberman. and probably joe biden, tho not as sexy.

his voice sounded like mucus being squished around in a tissue

I've heard a lot of mucus squished in tissues and it has never, ever sounded a bit like a human voice. I look forward to testing your assertion.

its a fact actually

there is a foley artist literally doing that in my studio right now

hes also doing that boioioioing sound because my dog has a boner

convention bump nonsense

the bump won't be factored in for a few days yet.

(also, the fact that the debacle of a convention we just saw could actually convert more voters to Trump is scary)

538 is dumb and doesnt understand whats really cool

they only project hillz will win the popular vote by 2%(!)

the electoral math gives her a more comfortable cushion but still.

(!)

even after all this time my brain will sometimes cough up 'joementum' as a word offering, what a fizzer. xp

RIP joey leebz

*such* a fizzer

I guess I'm not freaking out yet though, I mean one there's no pivot with this man, he's going to continue to blunder and stumble his way from one dumb controversy to the next, and I am reasonably sure he's going to get steamrolled in the debates. Two, a lot of his supporters seem to consist of r/The_Donald and /pol/ types, whose only goal in life is to provoke people and call them butthurt, who in reality don't care and won't be arsed to vote. Three, I honestly don't think Donald understands the electoral map - can totally see him wasting tons of resources campaigning in his home state of New York and ignoring states like Florida which he absolutely must have to win (as evidenced by his refusal to court Kasich, who absolutely could help him capture a state he desperately needs).

@BobMehr
Tim Kaine is a Replacements fan -- cited Let It Be as a fave LP. A man who knows the words to 'Gary's Got a Boner' could be a heartbeat away...

ha wow

they only project hillz will win the popular vote by 2%(!)

she stands for nothing but herself and is a painfully transparent phony, so

we are well aware of your opinion of HRC, morbs. a fiftieth repetition is probably unnecessary for any purpose but your own emotional release. this is becoming a bit like Tourette's with you.

treesh seemed to have missed all the press on the Two Most Hated Candidates of Our Lifetimes

which is p much the silver lining of all this for me

People with no memory of the Bill Clinton administration will be voting in this presidential election I'm not sure how well their impressions are reflected in favorability polls

everyone shd just get really high and vote wildy

no, what if your finger misses the voting button? thats reckless.

Easy to do here in WA with both legal weed and mail-in ballots.

People with no memory of the Bill Clinton administration will be voting in this presidential election

That's not good for Hillary imo, because they only have two decades of loud people with noisy opinions to base their perception on rather than seeing the "vast right wing conspiracy" in action.

im going to vote absentee but instead of mailing it im gonna throw it in the creek

(while stoned)

so like a Jerry Brown voter

i always vote for jerry brown

this discussion reminds me of an idea my roommate and i came up with for trump -- a kind of "reverse psychology" campaign strategy targeting the youth. a dash of "lol nothing matters" with "punk was great/don't you want a reagan of your own?"

trump shd get a face tatty

(while stoned)

― lag∞n, Saturday, July 23, 2016 12:13 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

pvmic

As long as Gary Johnson gets punched in the balls I'm happy

trump shd get a face titty

tim kaine reminds me of philip seymour hoffman

the more that i read Facebook posts from trump supporters, the more i realize that there's a sizable chunk of the american electorate that would be happy to see a different chunk of the american electorate marched off to extermination camps.

Read Dr Bob Altemeyer's _The Authoritarians_ or John Dean's _Conservatives Without Conscience_ which both get into that, figuring that about 1/5 of the American population would happily march straight into fascist dictatorship and think things all the better for it. There's a reason why Nixon's or Dubya's numbers never went past a certain floor.

only 1/5? seems wildly optimistic.

only 1/5? seems wildly optimistic.

― Twilight Sparkle from My Little Pony said (contenderizer)

3/5 would reluctantly march straight into fascist dictatorship.

great Scott Adams quote here:

Clinton will probably win the vote of women. Her problem is men. If you ask a man why he doesn’t like Hillary Clinton, he might say something about her policies and her history. But the persuasion filter says the real reason men don’t like Clinton is that they can’t stand listening to her. Her speaking style reminds men of every bad relationship they have ever had with a woman. We’re all irrational sexists on some level, and Clinton sounds to many male ears like a disgruntled ex-wife, or perhaps your mom who had a really bad day. That’s a problem if you need the male vote.

and by great I mean, what?

http://i.imgur.com/x2SBUhR.jpg

There's probably some truth to that. Some men think hillary is "shrill" and I guess they can't think of women outside archetypal roles. But still, if Hillary reminds people of a nagging wife, Trump should remind them of an acid nightmare.

http://i.imgur.com/jSuEa3n.jpg

The place this breaks down for me is the idea that voters think they need to like their candidates as people. It's so childish.

Can we not invoke the specter of Sc0tt Ad4ms my benign memories of finding Dilbert amusing as a child are tarnished enough already

go check the dilbert thread for his insane shit about v-neck sweaters
guy has gone just about full Dave Sim

are v-neck sweaters a feminist attempt to castrate our penis throats? because that would suck.

go check the dilbert thread

new parental disciplinary technique

V necks are less constrictive than crew necks

Just realized no one wears v neck T shirts anymore

Lol Km

V necks are less constrictive than crew necks

Just realized no one wears v neck T shirts anymore

Gay men in Seattle do

Sort of surprised by various friends shocked - shocked!- that Hillary wouldn't pick some ultra-progressive left field (in every sense) VP. We know why it couldn't (or shouldn't) be Booker or Warren. We suspect why it couldn't be Castro. Not to mention that Hillary has enough trouble on her own, all things considered. So what's so bad about Tim Kaine? The only two VP choices in my lifetime I recall making waves are Quayle and Palin, and both mostly for redefining the standards of stupidity. Otherwise, who the fuck cares? She could have done a lot worse.

Just realized no one wears v neck T shirts anymore

― Treeship, Saturday, July 23, 2016 1

gay men in Miami do!

he seems like a solid, likable dude who has taken his role in government seriously. i'm fine with it. just want to fast forward to november so i can stop panicking about hillary's colorful opponent.

interesting on the v-necks!

actually -- swear to god -- i am sitting across from someone wearing a v neck right now and another guy at the adjacent table is wearing one as well. but they are both the subtle v-necks, not the deep ones, which seemed to be inescapable maybe six years ago but seem to have been replaced by tank tops.

dunno why you wouldn't wanna be a gay man in Miami, that's crazy

The Bernie-stans on my FB feed seem to be indulging heavily in narcissism of small differences in order to get themselves worked up about Kaine. But that has characterized a lot of the Democratic primary, so I'm not surprised. This whole notion that a septuagenarian long-time senator from one of the smallest, whitest, Yankee-est states in the country somehow represented a real break from "the establishment" just really baffles me. And I like Bernie and I'm glad he ran and I think he had a salutary effect on Clinton and the Democratic platform.

bernie was a break from the establishment though. he came from outside the party and tried to transform its platform. the DNC tried to undermine him in this endeavor, as the latest leaked emails show.

i ended up not voting for him in the primary because i thought some of his rhetoric had become counterproductive by the time the election got to new jersey. however, it seems that sanders was right that he was being undermined and i was wrong in thinking that was paranoia.

the leaks also revealed that the DNC prevented ariana grande from performing at a clinton event due to the donut incident.

the establishment in this sense is a group of actual people who make decisions at high levels. it's not just "the privileged"

none of this matters because the establishment >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the alternative

at this point at least. trump is anti-establishment in the worst way possible.

on the contrary: Trump is the apotheosis of forty years of nativist and racist garbage I've heard from the GOP.

the DNC tried to undermine him in this endeavor, as the latest leaked emails show

have u actually read these? they're just kinda acerbic internal emails that don't amount to any active undermining at all imo

weird to see getting excited with Wasserman-Schulz at the podium

Sort of surprised by various friends shocked - shocked!- that Hillary wouldn't pick some ultra-progressive left field (in every sense) VP. We know why it couldn't (or shouldn't) be Booker or Warren. We suspect why it couldn't be Castro. Not to mention that Hillary has enough trouble on her own, all things considered. So what's so bad about Tim Kaine? The only two VP choices in my lifetime I recall making waves are Quayle and Palin, and both mostly for redefining the standards of stupidity. Otherwise, who the fuck cares? She could have done a lot worse.

― Josh in Chicago

my disappointment about her pick is that she has very real weaknesses as a candidate- she's not charismatic or likable- and i think a strong vp candidate could help to overcome those weaknesses. i guess it doesn't matter so terribly much, because she still has folks like obama and warren to stump for her, and i understand that she's deliberately trying to position herself as the safe, sane, and extremely boring candidate, the Voice of the Status Quo, but i simply don't think that the reason people haven't flocked to her, either in the base or among undecideds, is because her campaign isn't doctrinaire enough for them.

http://retired.talkingpointsmemo.com/assets_c/2011/12/george-hw-bush-1992-campaign-cropped-proto-custom_28.jpg

i wonder if kaine is actually that boring

He's not as boring as Pence, that's for sure.

i mean, he seems to have been a successful liberal governor and senator in a conservative leaning swing state. he is a catholic with 100% rating from planned parenthood. before entering politics he worked on housing discrimination cases even though he had a harvard law degree and could have been living it up in new york if he wanted.

he seems like a decent person who tries to do the right thing.

free trade and banking regulation seem like more of a "blind spot" than anything. from what i am reading it doesn't seem like he is an oligarch deep in his heart.

So what's so bad about Tim Kaine?

welp

https://theintercept.com/2016/07/20/tim-kaine-possible-hillary-clinton-pick-for-vice-president-signals-support-to-banks/

and similar latecomer to HRC on these issues

http://nobhillobserver.blogspot.com/2009/06/tim-kaines-record-on-gay-rights.html

If he hadn't signaled support for banks, HRC wouldn't have listened anyway. I don't see the point of a totem for the left. With Sanders as vice president, she'd lose her influence. Vice presidents aren't supposed to be listened to, Cheney excepted.

It makes no difference.

It's possible that younger men and women who lived through Bush's first term think the vice president is an omnipotent #2, but that's not how American history has unfurled.

"boring" in the sense that he's pretty square, i guess? the people i know who have worked in virginia democratic politics are really happy about this and think he's great. genuinely likable and a good person to work for

government is supposed to be boring imo. we need boring people to run the government effectively. on a daily basis it requires a lot of boring work.

Clinton is thinking about the median voter in VA, NC, PA, and OH. Tim Kaine is a sensible pick if that's what you're going for. A lot of people on the left think the Rove-style "turn out the base" theory is the way to go; I'm not sure if that's the best strategy for this election. The argument seems to be that this is an "anti-establishment" year, so she should have picked someone who in some way was "anti-establishment." idk, i hope Clinton's right, obviously

The primaries, iirc, showed that HRC was relatively weak among young people and working class whites. I can't say I blame the Clinton campaign for going after the latter of those two groups, given historic turn-out rates for under-30s.

The argument seems to be that this is an "anti-establishment" year, so she should have picked someone who in some way was "anti-establishment."

An argument based on one group of idiots voting for an authoritarian lunatic who's famous from TV, and another group of idiots telling themselves (and anyone else who'd stand still for 30 seconds) that voting for a guy who'd been in Congress for 25 years was some kind of blow against the empire. Seems sound to me...

i feel one of the more serious problems facing democracy in 2016 is the near-total lack of congruence between the skills a candidate needs to be elected to office and the skills a candidate needs in order to govern effectively. since the vice presidency is still a largely ceremonial post, why appoint a candidate whose skills lean more towards the latter than the former, particularly when your ticket is topped by someone with the same limitations?

that said, you know, i'm not the professional here, and if the clinton campaign thinks that picking kaine will shore up their weak numbers among older midwestern whites without college degrees, i'm not going to spend a lot of time second-guessing them.

he seems kind of likable and down to earth compared to the lofty and fanatical pence. maybe she is hoping that a pence-kaine debate would illuminate the fact that the democratic ticket are regular folks, at least compared to the maniacs on the republican ticket.

sort of undo the "liberal elitist" reputation. like, is "normal" "boring" guy like kaine really more of an elitist than a weirdo billionaire?

vp picks just dont move the needle much its not gonna make a difference, u cld maybe pick up 1% in their home state is abt all, which is why they tend to be selected more for their working relationship w the candidate than anything else (tho imo that 1% in the home stare shd be more closely considered)

I don't find Pence "fanatical" in mien either. He looks like a Kiwanis Club president who hated that sip of beer he took in 1985. That's why he's dangerous.

possible exception being picking someone very bad like palin cld do actual damage xp self

yeah lag∞n otm, i've been surprised how much people are outraged about the kaine pick

Palin and Quayle the most irresponsible picks of my lifetime if you discount Cheney as a historical outlier, and Quayle had no influence on Poppy Bush.

ok add Lieberman to the list, picked because he was on the hunt for Bill Clinton's penis too.

it wldve been a nice gesture to throw the left a bone which isnt nothing but its also not quite something either

vp picks just dont move the needle much its not gonna make a difference, u cld maybe pick up 1% in their home state is abt all, which is why they tend to be selected more for their working relationship w the candidate than anything else (tho imo that 1% in the home stare shd be more closely considered)

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/sarah-palin.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=1600

lag∞n
Posted: July 23, 2016 at 11:19:25 AM
possible exception being picking someone very bad like palin cld do actual damage xp self

even with palin, it's hard to say how much she affected the actual voting in that race, because in retrospect it seems pretty obvious that the GOP faced incredibly long odds in 2008 due to the crumbling economy

definitely no campaign wants those bad headlines, though, and have to waste valuable top-level campaign officials' time dealing with the fall-out

all that negative coverage cldnt have helped but ya tru they were prob gon lose anyway

vp picks just dont move the needle much its not gonna make a difference, u cld maybe pick up 1% in their home state is abt all, which is why they tend to be selected more for their working relationship w the candidate than anything else (tho imo that 1% in the home stare shd be more closely considered)

― lag∞n

i hate to keep bringing up the "historically unpopular" thing, but it's not safe to ignore its effect.

and yeah, palin was a disaster, but worse was mccain "mavericking" it up while the economy was in crisis.

kaine is talking now.

he seems like a nice guy. soft spoken. throwing in spanish phrases is sort of panderingish

not sure how u think a vp pick is gon fix historically unpopular

hillary needs a cool gay friend.

he seems like a nice guy. soft spoken. throwing in spanish phrases is sort of panderingish

― Treeship

he's speaking at Florida International University, the largest public university with Hispanics in the country.

:)

was gonna use the library this morning and then I went oops

fwiw "historically unpopular" is a lil overblown both candidates are historically unpopular congress is historically unpopular obama has been underwater most of his term politicians altogether are historically unpopular ergo comparing individual politicians popularity to historical politicians isnt actually going to tell u that much abt their current electoral chances unless u make some attempt to correct for the prevailing context of the times

there has been an entire anti-HRC industry consistently running since the 90s. more than 2 straight decades of it.

god bless em lol

kaine abt to go hard liberal to appease the base and everyone will be all he seems fine whatever

The primaries, iirc, showed that HRC was relatively weak among young people and working class whites. I can't say I blame the Clinton campaign for going after the latter of those two groups, given historic turn-out rates for under-30s.

For sure, especially since working class whites, if marshaled in historic numbers, are pretty much the only demo that could even get Trump close.

i'm sure he'll be fine. i'm sure he's a fine, compassionate, white liberal. i'm sure kipling was right about keeping your head when those all around you are losing theirs, condescending racist imperialism aside.

maybe i had unrealistic hopes. maybe there isn't anybody out there who can inspire more than reluctant acquiescence in the american people without simultaneously scaring the holy bejesus out of the "undecideds". i'm just terrified that this is going to be a whole campaign full of lukewarm, untrustworthy appeals to an abstract sense of "duty" like the "remain" campaign in the uk was. i keep waiting for the other candidate to go "bugfuck", but he's already bugfuck! what would it look like for him to completely lose it? do we have to wait for him to come on stage and start smearing his own excrement in his hair? or is even that not enough?

he might die on stage

Trump going in hard for Sanders supporters:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-knocks-tim-kaine-tweets

He may be a blustering fool, but he does seem to understand what drives that demo.

@rushomancy i totally share that fear, i'm worried all the time about widespread complacency, equivocation, and apathy leading to a trump victory. i guess i'm skeptical that the vp pick is really as important as its hyped up to be, by people on all sides

kaine is talking now.

he seems like a nice guy. soft spoken. throwing in spanish phrases is sort of panderingish

que comemierdas son ustedes

A vp pick tends to have some importance for voters who are on the fence or undecided. It gets added to the random pile of impressions they have of the main candidates, which they are fretting over in arriving at their decision. Kaine will add a reassuring white male presence to the campaign, a catholic, and a popular pol from a swing state in the border south.

In Trump's case, Pence was designed to reassure a big chunk of the hard right religious base who were on the fence about him. This was more important to him than moving to capture the center, since the current republican coalition is so unstable right now.

former mexican ambassador to china, for those of us who dont meet expected levels of fluency and were wondering

Jorge Guajardo ‏@jorge_guajardo 29m29 minutes ago
Kaine's Spanish is really good Spanish. It's actual Spanish. Confident Spanish. Understandable Spanish.

Yep. It's Jeb! Spanish.

s/o Jeb!

jeb shd reprise his macbook pro baby vine en espanol

Trump going in hard for Sanders supporters:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-knocks-tim-kaine-tweets

He may be a blustering fool, but he does seem to understand what drives that demo.

― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Saturday, July 23, 2016 2:07 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

have a feeling this will not be... too effective lol

I know this is dumb but I got really excited at "accomplished tenor

haha I read this far and knew this had to be a djp post

whether or not his presence on the ticket will affect the election, kaine just gave a more appealing (and coherent) speech than anyone at the RNC.

ya the contrast between these conventions is gonna be hell of stark

https://www.thenation.com/article/tim-kaine-has-a-troubling-record-on-labor-issues/

https://vine.co/v/5ZDrV6OQrQi

HAIRLYS CLUMP FOR PERDUSGHB

HAIRLYS

HARAMBE CLINTON

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/150/199/72a.png

boos cruz

harmabe clinton / tim "pokemon go" kaine '16

kaine is talking now.

he seems like a nice guy. soft spoken. throwing in spanish phrases is sort of panderingish

― Treeship, Saturday, July 23, 2016 1:30 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Trying to redirect funds from HIV/AIDS orgs to fund gay conversion therapy is very nice, as is taking bribes when it's done in a soft spoken manner

Meanwhile: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-putin-yes-it-s-really-a-thing

Bribes require favors last time I checked

Gawker's editorial direction appears to be to make sure Clinton / Kaine are portrayed as boring and lame and predictable and by the way did you know they're both white? How contrarian of Gawker.

Meanwhile: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-putin-yes-it-s-really-a-thing🔗

holy cow

Kaine seems fine, idk why we're going after this guy. He's the cool dad to Trump's crazy racist uncle

re Russia: there are no words

like, boring and likeable are big assets here. Trump's campaign is going to play up how DANGEROUS these people are and you'd supposed to go "who, these guys?"

That tpm piece is some dark dark shit

Most attention about the projects has focused on the presence of a twice imprisoned Russian immigrant with extensive ties to the Russian criminal underworld.

huh.

oddly, this kind of example seems not to come to trump's mind when articulating his personal crusade against the criminal immigrant element.

holy shit @ that TPM piece, this seems like...a really really big deal. one of the biggest deals you ever saw!!!

yeah, it's still kind of sinking in for me. would love to see someone 'follow the money' a little more closely, flesh out the circumstantial case, but it is quite damning as-is.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/WilliamCrump63/putinpecker.jpg

there is a tiny little part of me that would be genuinely sort of impressed by putin successfully backing a US presidential candidate and suddenly finding himself in control of his greatest enemy

I'd just rather read about it in a dystopian novel

vox weekend staffers frantically typing plain-language short version of JMM's post, I assume

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/WilliamCrump63/putinpecker_1.jpg

That post is str8 fire or whatever the kids say these days but kind of funny that even when breaking things down as numbered bullets, JMM has to wax all "let me explain"

the putin-trump connection is hurdling from fringe conspiracy to prob a real thing at record velocity

i guess the 'trump is a clinton plant' theory has now been thoroughly, terrifyingly debunked 😥

So many smug trump voters I can't wait to bring this up to

"The rap on Hillary Clinton’s VP pick is that he’s boring. But he’s boring like a fox."

a few smartly-done ads attacking trump as a putin stooge would be quite effective, i think.

might even give alex jones pause (theoretically, anyway; that guy doesn't have a 'pause' function)

agree re: cow, holiness of

maybe i'm off but it seems like Alex JOnes types and a significant portion of Trump fans on social media have a weird boner for Putin?

Even "Trump has been blackballed by all major US banks" feels like new news.

what is a JMM

josh marshall, editor of talkingpointsmemo

josh marshall memo

Talking Josh Memo Blues

ahhhmmm on teh innnernet talkin bout the govermint

trump got a lot of applause https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/757012114460569604

"make a video about how much applause i got, use stats"

Nobody gets the claps like I do!

ya the contrast between these conventions is gonna be hell of stark

Well, especially if Kissinger shows up to bless The More Competent Evil (TM).

I thought Shaun King's long Facebook comment on Kaine, which included plenty of praise, was fair-minded.

the DNC shenanigans to undermine sanders are bullshit. he lost my vote bc i thought he was being obnoxious with his "rigged election" schtick but it seems he was right.

On Friday, Wikileaks published an email exchange between Western Regional Communicators Director for the Democratic Party Walter Garcia and DNC Communications Director Luis Miranda, in which Miranda requests an article critical of Bernie Sanders be covertly shared, “without attribution” to the DNC.

The article, by Nevada political reporter Jon Ralston, pushed a narrative that Bernie Sanders supporters were becoming violent and out of control and that Sanders was partly responsible.

not cool. the DNC isn't constrained by funding laws that apply to candidates. they are supposed to be a neutral arbiter.

now is not the time to make a big deal out of this but it's depressing.

The fact that any/either political party even gives people a choice of who the candidate will be is basically an olive branch after a century of party bosses just ordaining the nominee. Primaries aren't a constitutional right, they're a political party activity. If the DNC wanted to, they could've just said "Hillary's it!" at the beginning of 2015 and Bernie would've had to run as an independent or hitched to a third party. So any bitching about certain people in the DNC trying to rig the election in secret when they could've done it right out in the open is fucking dumb.

stockholm syndrome

you're right that it's not surprising, but the DNC still fucking blows

pee pee
doo doo

the emails are atrocious, but i've yet to see that there was a substantive effort -- that is, an effective one -- from the DNC leadership to actually impede sanders's campaign. maybe i'm being naive, or too empirical, or something.

lmao hubert humphrey lives

The Russia stuff is much thinner that it's being presented.

For a start, Manafort worked for Yanukovich and not Russia. Yanukovich primarily represented Russian-speaking Ukrainians but was never personally that close to Putin. Putin thinks he's an idiot, Yanukovich thought he was excessive controlling. Yanukovich's attempts to ingratiate himself with the US, which Manafort was involved in, wasn't because he 'wanted a picture with President Bush', or some juvenile nonsense like that, it's because he always knew that his best chances of extracting the maximum value from trade deals and broader financial support was to play Russia and the West off against each other. That was the key factor which led to his downfall - he was far more successful in aligning with the EU and US when Manafort went off to do other things. He's negotiated a sweet trade deal with the EU, Russia came in with a much higher counteroffer (which he took) and the ensuing backlash deposed him. Given that Manafort has worked with the Pakistani Intelligence Agency thought to have partially funded the Taliban, Mobutu and Marcos, there's a few shadier places to start looking.

Anyone working in high-end real estate looking for investors (in the UK certainly, but also in the key Trump market of the UAE) will see money coming in from a fairly limited number of sources and the main one is capital flight from Russia. Look at any skyscraper in Dubai, London or New York and if it hasn't been created entirely with Arab money, there's a very good chance that Russian funds routed through Cyprus or Malta will have a part to play. A vast amount of that money is criminal and almost all of it is being hidden from the Russian state. Beyond anecdotal suggestions that some of the unidentified people using the same fund are "in favour with Putin", as most operational oligarchs tend to be if they're based in Russia these days, there are no strong ties. Alexander Mashkevich, despite the Russian name, is Kazakh-Israeli and doesn't seem to have any involvement in Russian politics.

Changing a policy on providing "lethal weapons" to Ukraine to something less likely to start WWIII is in line with the current US government position.

Russian media has been positive about Trump and i don't think there's any doubt that Putin would prefer him to Clinton. The Russian state and a large chunk of the public believes it's being unfairly persecuted by the US and that Clinton represents continuity in that regard. Trump coming in would probably lead to a rethink of current sanctions policy. It would also probably weaken the US on the world stage and may give rise to a less interventionist foreign policy (Russian TV can't get enough of the Pauls talking about rolling back US activities overseas). They're broadly rational reasons. Russia has little to no control over any of this though and the Manchurian Candidate stuff is straight out of the Cold War.

The Shaun King link Dr Morbius mentioned: https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/posts/1094631420575775

v inspiring Mr Fever, assholes who expect democracy are fucking dumb, God bless the Machine

of all people Morbs, do you expect democracy out of the Democratic Party machine?

expect, no; nor acceptsplainin'

my friends are all freaking out about the Michael Moore Trump prediction. cos he's an expert in this field after all.

*adds new terms into FB Purity*

Matt Taibbi said Trump wd win in Nov about 5 months ago

he doesn't seem to think so anymore

this election badly needs a Turk 182

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/s1tAYmMjLdY/0.jpg

Sanders was really good on Meet the Press this morning. Didn't hedge about Kaine ("not my first choice") or the e-mails (wants Wasserman Schultz out, glad she's not speaking at the convention), but said, and didn't seem like he was saying it just because he was supposed to, that it was all secondary to beating Trump. (Also didn't blame the DNC for his loss.)

hadn't seen MT's latest

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/trumps-appetite-for-destruction-how-disastrous-convention-doomed-gop-w430546

yeah there's some BS in the DNC leaks but no real bombshell as far as I'm concerned. keep in mind all the emails were from May, Bernie had been dead in the water for months and was turning actively toxic to the DNC, and none of the things they were spitballing ever came to pass so whatever. in short fuck wikileaks for publishing the SSNs and credit card numbers of innocent people

wikileaks: https://archive.is/5g8LF

Taibbi sure hates Happy Days

SV, what other candidates for US national office have extensive ties to Russian business and government interests and have made remarks about potentially not adhering to the North Atlantic Treaty in case of Russian encroachment?

The fact that current policy hasn't provided for Ukraine to receive weapons has little bearing on the fact that the GOP wanted to differentiate itself on this particular issue, yet

...Republican delegates at last week’s national security committee platform meeting in Cleveland were surprised when the Trump campaign orchestrated a set of events to make sure that the GOP would not pledge to give Ukraine the weapons it has been asking for from the United States.

This from a campaign that couldn't orchestrate its way out of a ripped paper bag otherwise.

And the fact that Russian hackers specifically have targeted the DNC and dumped their emails all over the news in the lead up to the convention is pretty transparent. Putin views Trump as an easily manipulated tool and he is partially correct.

lol sharivari how much putin give you to make that post

xp

I don't think there's much doubt Putin would see Trump as an easier mark and would welcome the US scaling back NATO and withdrawing from the WTO.

I don't place a great deal of stock in Trump's NATO remarks though - they're consistent with his ongoing whinging about other countries expecting the US to pick up the tab for their defence rather than a formal change of policy. Given the range of antiquated hawks he selected for his security council, i wouldn't expect a huge change of direction.

Both Clintons have ties to questionable Russian money. Bill was paid $600k for a speech to Renaissance Capital - an investment bank founded by Boris Jordan - heavily involved with Gazprom and state television. There are also ongoing questions over the "Uranium One scandal" - where what's assumed to be Russian money made its way to the Clinton Foundation via Canada. Russian money gets about.

It's a distraction, though. Investigative journalists would probably be better off going over the records of Trump projects and looking for ties to criminal / grey money. It shouldn't be too hard to tie cash invested with his golf courses to the proceeds of crime, in Russia and elsewhere. Manafort taking money from Ukraine seems less of a scandal than taking cash from a front of the Pakistani ISI. A heavy focus on a tenuous and deniable link to the Russian state doesn't seem particularly necessary when there are far stronger grounds for bringing his judgement into question.

command-f rnc platform

"I don't place a great deal of stock in Trump's NATO remarks though"

okaaay

It's obviously something journalists should interrogate in more detail with him if / when they're given the opportunity but it seems pretty consistent with his ongoing policy of "i'm a shrewd businessman who'll make X pay for Y".

i mean the trump putin connection cld certainly all be entirely innocent and theres no smoking gun but writing all off at this point seems incredibly foolish, particularly by comparing trump relying heavily of funding from putin stooges for his very business life to bill clinton who can walk up and shake any ol tree and make money fall out taking contributions to his charity

trump inserts language into rnc platform weakening support for nato, trump specifically suggest not protecting the very nato countries putin most desires, its nothing prob hes just crazy

This is all based on the theory that Putin wants to invade Estonia, which is pretty far-fetched. The more important question, which nobody is particularly interested in asking, is what level of protection is the US willing to give to Georgia in the event of another war, etc.

It just seems a strange thing to keep going on about when there is no smoking gun, given how completely demented the rest of his platform - from withdrawing from the WTO to having white nationalist speeches at the convention - is.

yes putin has only invaded two former soviet states and is obsessed with russian empire it is extremely far fetched that he wants to invade estonia

its possible to be interested in more than one aspect of trump at once, and a foreign government influencing one of the two major party candidates for president would be AN EXTREMELY HUGE DEAL just fyi is why ppl are interested in it

heres a piece debunking marshalls piece that seems pretty thin, the whole yeah sure the [trump campaign guy] has ties to to russia but he also has ties to other ppl so its ok line of reasoning seem particularly odd https://medium.com/@jeffreycarr/fact-checking-that-trump-putin-thing-8ed9fd850d40#.b5xjbhsby

the party of reagan no less

like what this just references an article abt rich ppl buying apartments

As a luxury real estate developer, Trump sells to Russian and Chinese ultra-high net worth individuals because that’s who has been buying expensive real estate. In 2014, however, Russian investment money started drying up and Chinese investors filled the void.

This probably isn't the thread for it but Estonia has nothing of value other than a huge number of extremely hostile Estonians. It's not the same as Crimea.

The bigger problem with conservative outlets hyping up the Russia angle is that it allows them to abrogate any responsibility for the creation of the conditions that have allowed Trump to thrive. A convoluted foreign plot is easier to disown than years of fomenting racism, the veneration of 'wealth creators', the broader contempt for politics as a process, etc.

which conservative outlets have been hyping this story

because estonia isnt the same place and crimea or georgia putin just must not want it okay

I dont think there's much there either but the Ukraine provision being literally the only thing he cared about on the platform is uh...kinda suspicious

The bigger problem with conservative outlets hyping up the Russia angle is that it allows them to abrogate any responsibility for the creation of the conditions that have allowed Trump to thrive

where?

when u look at all the pieces it looks very suspicious is all anyone is saying, wld anyone be at all surprised if a smoking gun was found, anyone

there cld also be not smoking gun and putin cld still be manipulating trump just cause hes an ignorant fool

Maybe Manafort stuck it in there. It's not like Trump has read his platform, that's what he pays other people to do, the best people.

This was a crazy story: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-paul-manafort-ferinand-marcos-philippines-1980s-213952

to Shari's point, I did find this: http://www.weeklystandard.com/putins-party/article/2003473

by Kristol no less

ok 1 conservative outlet no one reads has published 1 piece by the leader of the never trumpers

The WSJ and Chicago Tribune have also had Trump / Putin articles / editorials, etc. The Never Trump constituency has been getting behind this, along with a lot of the neo-con FP hawks like Michael Weiss and Anne Applebaum.

Most of the conspiratorial articles have come from more centrist publications, though.

so yr saying the ppl who are already against trump are interested in this story

i guess the only question i have for you is wld you be at all surprised if it turned out to be true

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoI6H0zWIAAlqGr.jpg

sure hope wasserman-shultz gets fired over these emails

its looking that way shes already been totally scrubbed from the dnc

so yr saying the ppl who are already against trump are interested in this story

Yes, it's easier for them to see Trump as a foreign imposition than a domestic problem born of other domestic problems.

i guess the only question i have for you is wld you be at all surprised if it turned out to be true

I think Trump's ties to Russian money are probably even more extensive than advertised but that money doesn't necessarily lead back to the Kremlin. I would be surprised if Russia had the wherewithall to significantly influence the outcome of a US election but think they would probably consider it fair game if they could. As mentioned, i do think that Trump's signaled policy on international trade and relations aligns with what Russia would want but i don't think that's a key factor in why those policy decisions have been made.

wld you say its more likely that trumps being directly influenced by the kremlin than any other major party candidate in US history

I don't think he's being directly influenced by the Kremlin. I think his stupid ideas are the stupid ideas Russia wants him to have but he has largely come to them independently.

The transcript to tomorrow's Meet the Press interview with Trump is out, and (as expected) it's full-on crazy

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/757028400783589377

so far I've gathered that 1) the $10-20 million anti-Cruz Super PAC is a go, 2) he would probably vote a Democrat over David Duke, "depending on the Democrat", and 3) it's terrible what these women are doing to Roger Ailes after he gave them so, so much

Why would he care about US support for the Ukraine in the absence of shenanigans?

hmm shariV noticeably sidestepping my questions

+proposing a delightful trump-putin simpatico lol

trump: ive got a huge boner for putin i have business and political ties w ppl in his orbit and im gonna oddly put stuff he likes in the rnc platform as well as talk down his least favorite political institution which is also happens to be americas most cherished

shariV: great minds think alike!

it's not that oligarchical russian business interests have invested large sums of money into a company that has been blackballed by almost every american bank from doing business and therefore the recipient of that largesse therefore is parroting the political wishes of the russian far right. it's that oligarchical russian business interests have invested large sums of money into a company that has been blackballed by almost every american bank from doing business and it just so coincidentally happens that this recipient agrees w/ the political wishes of the russian far right. but even were it the second and not the first like we learned from ppl's totally reasonable not rooted in misogyny hatred of hillary clinton, the appearance of bias is as bad as its actual existence.

btw fyi shari trump thinking like putin and trump being bought off by putin arent mutually exclusive, in fact theyre mutually supporting

these guys are natural allies, its a classicl mastermind/stooge realtionship

Why would he care about US support for the Ukraine in the absence of shenanigans?

Trump has been saying for over a year that Ukraine is Europe's problem to solve and the US shouldn't waste any resources on it.

There absolutely is a simpatico. Putin wants the international community divided - Trump wants to break and reform international commitments. Putin wants NATO expansion to freeze - Trump wants to reign in spending on providing blanket security for other countries. Putin wants Assad to continue to hold Syria and for intervention to focus on dismantling ISIS - Trump wants the same. These are all ideas with a history in the US conservative movement independent of both Trump and Putin. Ron / Rand Paul would be pushing similar policies (and frequently get airtime on Russian tv to do just that).

Revenge Super PACs have got to be the craziest thing yet....

that is wild

"Well Chuck I don't want to talk about that right now. I mean really I am thinking about Hillary. But once I am president I swear that I will fuck over that fucker Ted Cruz."

"And Kasich. And one other little person. I mean he's a tiny person. I won't say his name. But the initials are M and R."

“The good thing is, we have a candidate who doesn’t need to figure out what’s going on in order to say what he wants to do,” campaign chair Paul Manafort said in a Sunday appearance on “Meet the Press.”

The comedy stylings of Paul Manafort.

good thing i can always go back to working for vicious despots

"And Kasich. And one other little person. I mean he's a tiny person. I won't say his name. But the initials are M and R."

really hoping it's Jeb, for old times sake

his initials are j and !

This election might Kickstart the 80s action genre

Jeb's not running for anything though. Although it would be funny if the Super PAC was just generated to give Jeb a hard time. Pay people to go to restaurant he's at and mock him.

Surprised there is not or has not been a serious push for Trump to release his returns. Why not? Saving it for later? Why not just back him into a corner and go full ironic McCarthy and accuse him of having direct ties to the Kremlin?

Jeb's not running for anything though. Although it would be funny if the Super PAC was just generated to give Jeb a hard time. Pay people to go to restaurant he's at and mock him.

― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF)

what a waste of money. you know most of us would do it for free.

U-N-I-T-Y

@BillKristol
Shouldn't there be a Congressional investigation into "whether Putin is interfering in the American election?"

http://www.weeklystandard.com/putins-party/article/2003473#.V5SyX6GrF9k

@ggreenwald
This proposal is a logical extension of Dem tactic: Congressional investigation to find Kremlin influence on US soil

lol glenn makes his living publishing stories like this but he cant bring himself to be amped abt the biggest one of all because... the dem establishment

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

um no zzzzzzzz to u

McCarthyism and save-a-Hils, SUCH a good fit.

lol dude i think u need to flush the cache

Here's a headline for you:

How Putin Weaponized Wikileaks to Influence the Election of an American President

http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/07/how-putin-weaponized-wikileaks-influence-election-american-president/130163/

rip debbie

bloomberg endorsing hillary at the convention, the exodus of "srs adults" from the republican party continues

(disclaimer bloombergs one of my altime least favro politicians, god i hate u guys)

it's been time for wasserman schulz to go for a while, and while I don't think the dnc hack has anything mind-blowing in it, I'm glad it helped facilitate her exit.

same

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoGAnLJWIAAnpL8.jpg:large

wtf does 'compromised by terrorism' mean? it's pretty impressive to row back from banning muslims with a new phrase that could be read as he's got plans instead to ban people from the uk / france / belgium / anywhere else that's suffered terrorist attacks from within

No more immigration from California, Florida, Tennessee, Texas ...

i love that he thought the problem people had with his muslim ban was that he used the word 'muslim' rather than, y'know, his actual plan to ban all muslims from entering the us

he doesn't know what he's talking about. this is a marketing pitch.

he knows what hes talking about its just a different thing than hes talking about

he's expanding -- remember, he's a real estate guy

lol this guy

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoJnGIeUAAELB9H.jpg

He has moved to the position Cruz and Paul were pushing which just banned granting visas to almost every Muslim-majority country in the world but threw in the DPRK for cover.

and he's a germophobe too right? a walking bundle of barely-repressed neuroses xp

dammit lag∞n you cut it at the most dangerous section

I walked from Detroit to the Cleveland convention to talk to my fellow midwesterners. The verdict: people simply don’t care about Melania’s plagiarism when they’re worried about paying the mortgage

pleased that i was able to figure this out without walking 170 miles

dammit lag∞n you cut it at the most dangerous section

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, July 24, 2016 2:32 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

http://i.imgur.com/xx9BXhZ.jpg

Debbie out

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/289026-democratic-national-committee-chairwoman-will-resign

She's a convenient scapegoat to assuage hurt Sanders voters but she should've been fired for being bad at her job (getting Dems elected) more than anything else.

Wasn't she on her way out anyway?

Only bc of the whole primary drama

She would've been replaced by HRC's choice of successor after the election at the latest.

guys, i think i may need to tap out. i've been thinking about it, and after this leak there is just absolutely nothing i can say to convince someone who isn't a wonk or a straight-ticket voter to vote hillary. the only option i have available to me is trying to scare the bejesus out of them about trump, and when it comes to fearmongering i'll just never be as good as even an average republican.

democracy is thoroughly fucked.

My impression of DW-S was not exactly one of blazing incompetence, but of someone just one size smaller than the size of the job she was filling. Her interactions with the media seemed clunky and her on-message pronouncements never seemed to deliver the message smartly and crisply.

The leak that someone in the DNC thought Sanders atheism should be exploited tho it never came to pass? It should not be a news flash that the party wanted Hillary as the nominee - remember the whole super delegates thing?

it's not a news flash to anybody who's been paying attention, but the dnc broke the first rule of politics- don't get caught.

seriously, if i'm talking to someone and they say they're not voting for hillary because she's a corrupt liar who only got the nomination because the dnc was in the bag for her, what the fuck am i supposed to say about that? that the fact that the dnc was in the bag for her had nothing to do with her getting the nomination? boy, that's a real winner there.

Yes, these emails are truly the Watergate of the Democratic party.

Maybe tell them that the Hillary campaign obviously was responsible enough to ignore these suggestions and that she still won without exploring Bernie's atheism by a sizable margin of normal voters and normal delegates.

The DNC didn't elect Hillary. Voters did.

she needed to go, the news is welcome and changes nothing about Clinton's chances, and I'm about to grab a snack.

You could point out that she got the nomination because she was able to get a shitload more votes than Bernie did. And that if you believe in what Bernie does, and you believe in any progressive principles, and you're in a battleground state, you need to go pull the lever if for nothing else than a Supreme Court that will uphold equal rights for all.

mordy alfred and tom otm

ffs

You could point out that she got the nomination because she was able to get a shitload more votes than Bernie did. And that if you believe in what Bernie does, and you believe in any progressive principles, and you're in a battleground state, you need to go pull the lever if for nothing else than a Supreme Court that will uphold equal rights for all.

― El Tomboto

i'm not talking about "progressives", i'm talking about people who believe that voting for either candidate would be in conflict with their personal ethics. there are a whole hell of a lot of those people out there.

Oh right I forgot voting is a consumer choice by which you express your personal beliefs

don't get me wrong i'm sincerely touched by y'all's belief that the american electorate in general, and bernie supporters in particular, are fundamentally sensible and rational people.

For those ppl I think the only thing worth explaining is that Democracy is a conduit for expressing yr political will not yr ethical conduct. For that it'sbbetter to perform charitable acts. It's not even that voting as ethics ignores what voting is for but it gives ppl an excuse for not performing actual ethical acts bc after all they vote the right way.

don't get me wrong i'm sincerely touched by y'all's belief that the american electorate in general, and bernie supporters in particular, are fundamentally sensible and rational people.

― big rave warrior (rushomancy

I dunno what kind of Berniebros skulk around your Facebook page, but that's what social media's for. Fifteen years ago they would've been alcoholics or taken up crossword puzzles.

Hands up anyone who has ever talked someone into voting differently

Interim DNC chair = Donna Brazile

I definitely have deems but you need to know going in whether they're open to hearing new arguments and new evidence.

i convinced my mom to vote for obama. that's it

i'm not talking about "progressives", i'm talking about people who believe that voting for either candidate would be in conflict with their personal ethics. there are a whole hell of a lot of those people out there.

I don't think there are. I think there are a lot of loud talkers on Facebook and Twitter. (xpost with Alfred)

Yes mordy but u are iirc a bully so i mean we cant discount intimidation

Hands up anyone who has ever talked someone into voting differently

― poor fiddy-less albion (darraghmac)

plenty of times. just today, in fact. my aunt was going to go with jill stein. i told her about how dr. stein reacted to brexit. so she's going with clinton.

someone on my facebook timeline is joining a class action suit against the dnc?? lol

#Mordybros

guys.... these ppl told u they were voting for who u wanted just so u would stop

hard to tell with men, of course, because men will deny everything you've said and call you an asshole and the next time you talk to them they'll magically have a completely different opinion.

Lol im.glad sleepingbag said it first

I've convinced a few one issue Israel voters this election to vote Hillary bc the case that she would be better for Israel than Trump is super easy to make. Basically the only arrow in the R quiver re Hill and Israel is that she once said something nice about Max Blumenthal to his father.

wld be a lot more worried abt #neverhillary if bernie werent abt to endorse her and campaign for her and trump werent so terrifying, obvs the specter of gore/nader hangs over all this but its worth remembering that at the time ppl really werent worried abt abt bush we were living through a time of extended relative peace and p much everyone on both sides had bought his moderate compassionate conservative schtick

Hillary campaign obviously was responsible enough to ignore these suggestions and that she still won without exploring Bernie's atheism by a sizable margin of normal voters and normal delegates.

This is the thing. If you took a full pool of emails from any university, corporation, or not-for-profit the size of the DNC, you would find some shitty email along these lines. I guess the best way to protect any organization now is to fire back an email saying "That's awful - gtfo" instead of ignoring it or addressing the bad idea in person.

oh my god it doesn't take super magic powers to influence people's opinions. be polite to them, listen to them, ask a couple questions.

also bush was in lock step w the well oiled republican establishment where trump is incompetent

yah the image Bush projected in 2000 was extreme confidence and it had nothing to do with his brains

^^That's why a Cruz is more frightening than a Trump to me, at least until this Russian angle. He isn't in lockstep with his party, Congress, or the Supreme Court.

cruz is terrible, but the possibility of an american brexit scares me shitless. electing trump would fuck america at least as badly as voting brexit fucked britain.

electing trump wld prob lead to nuclear war

Id say alien invasion and also terminators

not a joke

I agree with you tbh 😞

thank u

the collapse of the global economy and the wholesale replacement, essentially worldwide, of democracy with nationalistic fascism, followed by world war iii. terminators slightly more likely than nuclear war imo but i ain't no nostradamus.

Wait

Didnt you guys say this about like every candidate u didnt like, ever, tho

I mean sure this time seems its likely true but maybe all those ppl youve 'convinced' before are all "wolfcryin motherfucker is at it again" idk

it's a cute thing to say but no i don't remember hearing apocalyptic arguments against romney, mccain, gwb (tho he surely deserved them considering the destruction he wrought), dole, or any other republican candidates i remember from my lifetime. the closest maybe was palin and the argument there was that she was a heartbeat from the presidency.

no, no, john mccain was going to lead to women being treated as chattel like in "a handmaid's tale".

and mitt romney was just an asshole.

im sure u cld find someone being apocalyptic abt like anyone but it wasnt me

there were persuasive and dramatic arguments against all of these ppl but that's bc that's how politics works - if you can't tell the difference btwn substantially different platforms you aren't paying attention. but ppl being fearful of a nominee establishing martial law, inspiring a new wave of fascism, or encouraging nuclear proliferation (or actually using nuclear weapons) is pretty unique to this cycle imo. nb i wasn't alive for the barry goldwater campaign.

trumps impulsive thin skinned vengeful paranoid and thinks might makes right u cldnt dream up a better person to press the button

+ignorant

but c'mon, people said all kinds of terrible things would happen if the uk voted for brexit, and britain turned out.... oh.

yoo lol

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump
Do you think Putin will be going to The Miss Universe Pageant in November in Moscow - if so, will he become my new best friend?

ppl being fearful of a nominee establishing martial law

This bugaboo achieved a huge boost from the anti-Clinton noise machine and may have been believed about Obama by as much as 10% of the voting age population. The difference now is that the fear is rising among mainstream progressives, not the black helicopter crowd, who paradoxically would now love to see martial law under Trump.

ha true

of course obama never said anything like "Americans watching this address tonight have seen the recent images of violence in our streets and the chaos in our communities. Many have witnessed this violence personally, some have even been its victims. I have a message for all of you: The crime and violence that today afflicts our nation will soon, and I mean very soon, come to an end. Beginning on January 20th, 2017, safety will be restored."

w/mccain and romney, people were far less fearful of them than they were their VP picks iirc. which was also the case with GWB.

paul ryan wasn't all that frightening. no more so than mitt. they were both captive to the same politics that have now thrown up trump, but at least could control themselves, if not all their supporters. trump has zero self-control.

Here's my take.

If Trump becomes president, the USA will become the running joke of the world. And that's it. He won't invade anywhere, he won't trade anything, his one mission statement is "U.S.A." and that's it.

We're so going to be ready to have a preppy in office in 2020.

Which ties into the point on an earlier election thread of Trump, ironically, being an "immigrant" candidate: a brash mouthy New Yorker, etc.

xp that would be nice. wishful thinking maybe. we already were the running joke of the world 2003-2008

on one of the earlier threads, someone suggested that, being that DJT likes to say that "the system" is rigged against him (and Sanders, as an afterthought), he may call for armed insurrection if HRC prevails. It's stayed with me since. Very easy for me to imagine him bellowing that he and his real american constituency were robbed, this is what gun enthusiasts have been fearing, now is the time take the country back by force. And what exactly suggests that the hideous, backed-into-a-corner-by-modernity cohort, as well as the alt-right, wouldn't do as he commands? This would be his ultimate validation.

If he loses and doesn't call for open revolt, then the way is clear for him and Roger Ailes to make a new media entity that wouldn't even bother with the notion of "news." They could make programming based around his rants, or like an anti-SNL with actors playing HRC, TK, Lyin' Ted and whoever he presently doesn't like fucking animals or doing drugs or some shit. Like Punch and Judy for the present day.

This thread is really devolving into paranoia isn't it.

it's warranted, though

yeah I'll cop to that

Is Trump acquiring Yellow Cake uranium? Read on....

he'd prefer orangecake amirite

If he loses and doesn't call for open revolt, then the way is clear for him and Roger Ailes to make a new media entity that wouldn't even bother with the notion of "news." They could make programming based around his rants, or like an anti-SNL with actors playing HRC, TK, Lyin' Ted and whoever he presently doesn't like fucking animals or doing drugs or some shit. Like Punch and Judy for the present day.

like Glenn Beck?

When he falls, he'll fall fast.

when he says "I am the only one who can save us" and but would then lose, seems to me that he's demonstrably capable to call for such a thing

he'll complain about the system being rigged because he's a winner and cannot have lost fairly. he's not going to call for armed insurrection, though, c'mon

and for all the bundys etc like to play with guns, they are no match for any police or military, and trump is hardly the guy who will subvert those institutions

Otm

Late Sunday afternoons are grim times at ILX.

the nightmare scenario of all news programming being based on Trump's rants isn't some apocalyptic future scenario but the banal reality of current daily life

I'm not immune to the danger that Trump represents in the small possibility that he's elected, but his supporters are likelier to die from thrombosis and diabetes than during Shays Rebellion II.

Re treeship saying america was joke of the world 2003-8, i wouldnt narrow it those years. Your gun rights nonsense extends waaaay out either side of that timeframe.

he has shown himself to have rabble roused to a far, far more deleterious effect than Beck. In the event of his losing, he will still need a greater dose of adulation (see Jane Mayer's NYer piece with Art of the deal co-author), and the media company could function as a government in exile. Fox News may change very much after Ailes, and the viewership would flock to a place where they could fume, get catharsis, and where he could pop off whenever he wants, which clearly would be often.

the guy's a millionaire reality tv star who craves attention, not a rebel leader. he doesn't even believe most of the stuff he says because he has no beliefs beyond his own greatness. he'll find something else to stroke his ego that doesn't involve actual risk

" trump is hardly the guy who will subvert those institutions"

he would do this in a hot millisecond if it would benefit him, gratify his ego…is it not evident that he does not give a shit about anything besides himself and his children?

Re treeship saying america was joke of the world 2003-8

i don't think i said this

finally all those fema camps for dissidents will get some use under president trump. can't believe how wasteful it's been maintaining them all these years

yes finally after hearing about them for a decade and a half

seriously

glad to see hoos in philadelphia https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/757347223206260736

idgi

i said 2003-2008, invasion of iraq til obama elected, but you're right, and i'm not sure it's ever stopped

Sorry. Flappy bird not treeship. I cannot read. Xxxp

lol this fucken guy
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/757012114460569604

From Clinton's website:

"[Wasserman Schultz] has agreed to serve as honorary chair of my campaign’s 50-state
program to gain ground and elect Democrats in every part of the country,
and will continue to serve as a surrogate for my campaign nationally."

I don't have any words left to describe this creature.

"Oh right I forgot voting is a consumer moral choice by which you express your personal beliefs"

FIXED

you truly live on a different plane than the rest of us

i don't remember hearing apocalyptic arguments against ... gwb

i'm worried about your memory

this Lesser Evil shit has moved the Democratic Party noticeably to the right every prez election since at least '88. Incontrovertibly.

except this year

i thought this was a pretty even-handed guide to hill hate

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/the_people_who_hate_hillary_clinton_the_most.html

margo guryan!
i wonder what linda perhacs thinks of hillary

except this year

wait til the Clinton Cabinet (if there will be one) is announced to title your book Like Sanders Never Happened

this Lesser Evil shit has moved the Democratic Party noticeably to the right every prez election since at least '88. Incontrovertibly.

this is a specious claim by any measure.

platform, 2016:

We believe in protecting civil liberties and guaranteeing civil rights and voting rights, women’s
rights and workers’ rights, LGBT rights, and rights for people with disabilities. We believe
America is still, as Robert Kennedy said, “a great country, an unselfish country, and a
compassionate country.”

platform, 1988:
take a guess

2016:

The "war on drugs" has led to the imprisonment of millions of Americans, disproportionately
people of color, without reducing drug use. Whenever possible, Democrats will prioritize
prevention and treatment over incarceration when tackling addiction and substance use disorder.
We will build on effective models of drug courts, veterans’ courts, and other diversionary
programs that seek to give nonviolent offenders opportunities for rehabilitation as opposed to
incarceration.
Because of conflicting federal and state laws concerning marijuana, we encourage the federal
government to remove marijuana from the list of “Schedule 1" federal controlled substances and
to appropriately regulate it, providing a reasoned pathway for future legalization. We believe that
the states should be laboratories of democracy on the issue of marijuana, and those states that
want to decriminalize it or provide access to medical marijuana should be able to do so. We
support policies that will allow more research on marijuana, as well as reforming our laws to
allow legal marijuana businesses to exist without uncertainty. And we recognize our current
marijuana laws have had an unacceptable disparate impact in terms of arrest rates for African
Americans that far outstrip arrest rates for whites, despite similar usage rates.

1988:

WE BELIEVE that illegal drugs pose a direct threat to the security of our nation from coast to coast, invading our neighborhoods, classrooms, homes and communities large and small; that every arm and agency of government at every federal, state and local level—including every useful diplomatic, military, educational, medical and law enforcement effort necessary—should at long last be mobilized and coordinated with private efforts under the direction of a National Drug "Czar" to halt both the international supply and the domestic demand for illegal drugs now ravaging our country; and that the legalization of illicit drugs would represent a tragic surrender in a war we intend to win.

2016:

We will abolish the death penalty, which has proven to be a cruel and unusual form of
punishment. It has no place in the United States of America. The application of the death penalty
is arbitrary and unjust. The cost to taxpayers far exceeds those of life imprisonment. It does not
deter crime. And, exonerations show a dangerous lack of reliability for what is an irreversible
punishment.

1988:

nope

platforms are built on clouds, dude

lol ok, you're right, no difference whatsoever between calling for an all-out war on drugs & urging the decriminalization of marijuana while remarking on the disproportional effect criminalization has on the black population. just the same exact thing there. calling for the abolition of the death penalty, meaningless, after all what are words? just mutually agreed-upon symbols with no absolute signifiers right

if you hold the values you profess and can't look at those three items there -- just a few from two platforms that inarguably show a pronounced leftward drift -- and see that the incremental progress you dismiss actually occurs in meaningful ways, then yr just bein' mad for the sake of it, it's as plain as day

Well, I for one applaud JCLC's efforts in getting those things in one place, it is striking. There'd be more to discuss in comparing 2016 to 1988 of course, like do we measure platforms' right/leftness versus previous platforms, or versus where the country is at a given time? Even then, the written 2016 platform seems quite a bit to the left of where many or most Americans stand on those topics you listed, and I do think that's worth noting. Curious how they shake out on Sanders-esque/social-democratic/economic equity stuff.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/25/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-emails.html

Mr. Mook also suggested that the Russians might have good reason to support Mr. Trump: The Republican nominee indicated in an interview with The New York Times last week that he might not back NATO nations if they came under attack from Russia — unless he was first convinced that the counties had made sufficient contributions to the Atlantic alliance.

It was a remarkable moment: Even at the height of the Cold War it was hard to find a presidential campaign willing to charge that his rival was essentially secretly doing the bidding of a key American adversary. But the accusation is emerging as a theme of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign, as part of an attempt to portray Mr. Trump not only as an isolationist, but one who would go soft on confronting Russia as it threatens nations that have shown too much independence from Moscow or, in the case of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, joined NATO..

In 2012, Barney Frank, then in his last year in Congress, helped write the Democratic national platform. At least he thinks he did.

“I don’t remember what was in it,” says Frank, who was a member of the platform committee at that year’s Democratic National Convention, “and it wasn’t a very interesting tour of duty.” Describing the platform as the “Miss Congeniality of the convention process,” the former Massachusetts representative says everything besides the nomination of the president and the vice president is just this “Model U.N. kind of stuff.”

“Maybe you are a particularly savvy person,” he adds, “but I can’t remember much that’s been in any platform.”

the platform is not inherently important - it's an indicator of where the party is generally and where the candidate in particular is.

From that Slate piece above:

Noonan saw in Clinton "an implicit insistence throughout her career that hers were the politics of moral decency and therefore those who opposed her politics were obviously of a lower moral order."

I've always felt like Peggy Noonan was very salt of the earth myself, not prone to this kind of thing at all.

it shows you what factions are deemed worthy to appease, hence a leftward slant to bring in Bernie supporters
these positions are not pursued/prioritized unless it is blatantly politically advantageous to do so once they assume power
xpost

Mr. Mook

this Lesser Evil shit has moved the Democratic Party noticeably to the right every prez election since at least '88.

The force that moved the Democratic Party to the right since 1988 was not "lesser evilism", it was a shift to the right by more than 50% of voters in most of the 50 states. I cannot even fathom how a mania for "lesser evilism" could move a majority party to the right. How would that work in reality, morbs?

this Lesser Evil shit has moved the Democratic Party noticeably to the right every prez election since at least '88.

The force that moved the Democratic Party to the right since 1988 was not "lesser evilism", it was a shift to the right by more than 50% of voters in most of the 50 states. I cannot even fathom how a mania for "lesser evilism" could move a majority party to the right. How would that work in reality, morbs?

― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless)

there's this guy named tony blair...

having said that, a party platform is not a _binding_ document, but neither is the declaration of independence. to say that it is irrelevant to consider a major party's stated goals when looking at that major party's candidate is cynicism above and beyond the call of duty, with all the attendant cognitive dissonance that entails- realpolitik is not particularly congruent with sandersite progressivism.

http://www.fordhallforum.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Barney-Frank_320.jpg

, it was a shift to the right by more than 50% of voters in most of the 50 states

i basically agree with this, and behind the fantasy of moving the dems to the left via not voting for them is the assumption that the electorate -- or at least a majority of it --is naturally left-wing and is just waiting for a candidate to appear that matches those natural inclinations. i don't actually see much evidence for this.

that said, if there was higher turnout by the poor and otherwise underprivileged there's no question we'd see a slight shift to the left on some major issues.

too bad there is no evidence of a far left candidate, say a proclaimed democratic socialist, getting massive support

hey JCLC, re the platform and the death penalty, you are familiar w/ Gov Kaine re executions, yes?

Clinton will ignore as much of the platform as she wants to in office, just like every prez ever. I don't care what it "calls for," show me the deeds.

Barney Frank otm for a change

too bad there is no evidence of a far left candidate, say a proclaimed democratic socialist, getting massive support

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau)

if you only support sanders as long as he's opposing clinton, you don't support sanders, you just really hate clinton.

oh i supported Sanders since i saw him making big anti-bailout speeches in '08 and if Clinton wasn't running i'd support him.

i'm reading right now about "sanders supporters" protesting the convention by chanting "hillary for jail" and "lock her up". oh, those are "sanders supporters"? they sound like they drove straight from the floor of the quicken loans arena.

don't you know sanders supporters are the same as trump supporters it's Hillary or Bust

they're not Sanders supporters though. they are scumbags who are directly and openly allying themselves with the fascists at the RNC.

They're not representative of all of Sanders' supporters, but they're definitely representative of some.

i won't believe they're for real until i see the bagpipes

Everything is everything

It's all good
Drop-top fleetwood rollin' through the hood

they're not Sanders supporters though. they are scumbags who are directly and openly allying themselves with the fascists at the RNC.

― esempiu (crüt), Monday, July 25, 2016 7:32 AM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Don't blame Sanders supporters--you had a candidate who would have fought to save the last scraps of the New Deal and makes easy(ier) work of La Trump and you rejected him. Running another horrible candidate no one likes and then blaming everyone else except the lousy candidate you field (Gore/Kerry)...sounds familiar. Sad!

I voted for Sanders. I didn't reject him.

are you seriously defending people who think Hillary Clinton should be jailed? why?

i would have voted for sanders. but do you really think that an avowed socialist would win the american presidency?

several things i hadn't foreseen have already come to pass

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kaine-not-liberal-enough-just-ask-virginians/2016/07/24/ff5f6e2a-519c-11e6-bbf5-957ad17b4385_story.html

honestly guys it's been great but i'm out. maybe I'm being overly dramatic but this is all stressing me out more than it needs to. so
I'm taking a break from elections shit for now . talk to you guys in November.

There might be a difference between Bernie Bros and Trump supporters but when they come after you on Twitter it's REALLY hard to tell.

Oh btw I just got called a "cuck"!