By Hera! Come anticipate the WONDER WOMAN movie with me!

following her first appearance in the execrable batman vs superman, here's the first trailer for gal gadot's starring role as wonder woman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lGoQhFb4NM

hard to tell what to expect from this, but i'm not super-thrilled by the look of the snyder-esque slo-mo action scenes and gadot's not exactly thrilled me with her acting chops in either b vs s or the fast and the furious movies, which is all i've seen her in to date

i want to believe this will be good but the pedigree of the dc cinematic universe is so far... not good at all :(

one thing that really bothers me about the trailer is wonder woman fighting in the trenches and no-man's-land of wwi.

it feels like it tethers the movie a little too close to the real-life horror of the war in a way that the first captain america movie managed to sidestep by having cap fight the very obviously comic-booky red skull and hydra, well away from the actual battlefields of wwii. it'll take some careful handling to avoid it looking really tasteless, and one thing the onscreen dcu has not exactly been over-burdened by as-yet by restraint and taste...

The reveal of the invisible jet in that trailer was pretty cool.

lol, I actually watched the whole trailer again trying to figure out where it was

(but I guess I have an excuse in that the first time I saw Wonder Woman on TV as a kid the 'invisible' jet looked like this)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/Invisible_plane.jpg

Casting Chris Pine as Steve Trevor kind of makes sense, but I can't tell if he's supposed to be the comic relief or if it's just his wooden acting.

it's both i think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q8fG0TtVAY

My general attitude is fuck a comic book movie, but WW is different and just the whole feel of this movie seems remarkable. Can I buy a ticket yet?

the DC movies are all fucking awful (well, the ones I've seen) but I'll probably make an exception for this because 1) I think Gal Godot is beautiful 2) this had a female director, right? which is an anomoly in comic book movies and 3) it can't be as bad as suicide squad

Patty Jenkins, who directed Monster, directed this.

Gal Gadot is def stunning and seems a natural to play WW but wow she cannot deliver lines like a human

oh yeah she by no means is a good actress

has a slightly similar feel to the first Captain America movie, re the retroness, which I'm def into

Gal looks and seems RAD I can't wait to see this

Chris Pine too haaaaay

Gal Gadot is def stunning and seems a natural to play WW

Really? Because my main thought when watchin Bats vs. Supes was that she's way too skinny and short to feel credible as WW. Wonder Woman's supposed to be tall and muscular, since she's literally an Amazon. And I'm not saying this just because that's the way she's been depicted in post-Crisis comics, but because physical strength and stature is a pretty important part of her character in general.

If she was playing a ninja or some other type of character who's main characteristic is agility, I wouldn't mind (which is why I'm okay with Johansson as the Black Widow), but with WW it's a different thing. You wouldn't cast a skinny dude to play Superman either.

agreed. plus ya know it's a better contrast with the whole essential bondage theme which I'm guessing will not be addressed in this film....

HG Peter's Wonder Woman has a fairly regular build, sometimes even a slightly petite. Not the most popular version but surely definitive.
But I really don't think it matters what size she is.

I thought Gadot was tall but maybe she's just taller than Isla Fisher.

she's 5 10". (i looked that up, I didn't know it off the top of my head) which is fairly tall, I'd think

The overwhelmingly definitive comparison:

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/79/590x/secondary/Lynda-as-Wonder-Woman-264419.jpg

(5 9")

You wouldn't cast a skinny dude to play Superman either.

― Tuomas, Friday, November 4, 2016 2:27 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Au contraire...

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/superman/images/6/6e/Cage_Lives.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150815204540

Gal Gadot appears to be 1.78m or 5ft 8. Might have expected them to go with somebody at least 6ft. but I guess that's reasonably tall for lot of people.

Not having seen the previous trailers i was a little surprised to see this was going to be set in teh first world war, thought she was more associated with WWII. Though it did look like a WWI scene she was shown in the photo in Batman v Superman.

(And, completely tangentially, I've totally bought into the argument that there's no real reason why Superman should be depicted as supermuscular. I guess the same could apply to Wonder Woman.)

I'm not arguing against a Darwyn Cooke version of course, but I don't know that it's a massive betrayal not to have one.

What was that thing Gal Gadot and Lynda Carter were doing? I heard that Wonder Woman was supposed to be some sort of ambassador but how can you have a fictional ambassador? A lot of people were unhappy but it seems like people were more unhappy about it being a typically idealised white woman than it looking like a movie promotion.

a super muscular WW would probably scare the investors.

this does look cool. WWI as a setting has potential to be more interesting or nuanced than WWII. first season of the 70s TV show was all about fighting the Nazis over and over again, maybe they are trying to break from that.

I have never heard of Gal Gadot and she seems perfectly fine (and tall !) but I don't know, she seems a bit too... "normal" or bland for the role.
I would have imagined someone more badass, with more character.
Maybe I'm biased because Lynda Carter was one of my first crushes as a kid... that said I don't remember at all if she was that badass !

70s TV show was all about fighting the Nazis over and over again, maybe they are trying to break from that.

by fighting... 2nd Reich Germany !

i'm kind of surprise Lynda is that short! on her show she kind of towers over everyone. maybe they only hired short people?

or people were smaller then ?
I'm not sure there were that many 5 9" women around in the 70s.

(And, completely tangentially, I've totally bought into the argument that there's no real reason why Superman should be depicted as supermuscular. I guess the same could apply to Wonder Woman.)

I actually agree with that on Superman, since his power comes from the sun, and he's always been depicted as peaceful dude, so there's no need for him to lift weights or anything. But WW was born into a warrior culture and has gone through the toughest possible warrior training, so she should be muscly.

The superman disguise that him slouching makes him look non descript and therefore he can pass off as milquetoast Clark Kent would be heavily undermined by him being seriously buff wouldn't it?

Lynda Carter has a recurring role on the Supergirl tv series now and she's a fucking worse actress than Gal Godot if you can believe it.

i knew i could count on you all to make this thread as unexciting as possible

One of my fave clips of all time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu89K7nI8KY

Debra's Letterman interviews are gold.

i knew i could count on you all to make this thread as unexciting as possible

new board descrip pls mods

The superman disguise that him slouching makes him look non descript and therefore he can pass off as milquetoast Clark Kent would be heavily undermined by him being seriously buff wouldn't it?

You could actually post the panels by Quitely here and prove your point?

supposed to be some sort of ambassador but how can you have a fictional ambassador?

what

i knew i could count on you all to make this thread as unexciting as possible

tbf Veg you're the one trying to be thrilled about a film produced by Zack Snyder and Geoff Johns

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/21/wonder-woman-un-ambassador-staff-protest

This is the thing I was talking about

as long as snyder's not *directing* i'm all for it

remember when this guy was the Iranian ambassador to the UN though

http://66.media.tumblr.com/c2da3a5940bf16eb2082b80bc4206540/tumblr_nrgl4okBxP1trvouao1_500.jpg

That chin is nuts

you could fit a lot of nuts on that chin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INLzqh7rZ-U

looks good

http://www.flickfilosopher.com/wptest/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/chainedwonderwoman.jpg

its a teal and orange world

that's a full trailer and not a teaser? i don't know what type of film it is. action, back story, tragic scene, cg, explosion, one-liner, comedy.

i can imagine an exec going "what DCEU really needs is marvel's color scheme from 2011"

is Wonder Woman going to find out why the sun turned blue?

looks a hell of a lot better than snyder's super fuck-fest. which isn't really an endorsement, but baby steps...

yeah I like everything I've seen about this. I hate the Snyder movies and refuse to watch batman vs superman or have anything to do with suicide squad, but this looks to hit all the right buttons. Gal Godot is probably the one weak spot; she is absolutely drop dead gorgeous and amazing, but will she be able to convincingly act the part? I don't know. Maybe acting chops don't matter that much in this type of movie. I wouldn't say that dude who plays Captain America is any kind of good actor either and he's good enough for those films.

Other lessons they've learned from Marvel: blonde guys named Chris to the front!

still really squicked out that they've chosen to put wonder woman in the trenches of ww1

For reasons of taste? You don't usually see superheroes in a WWI context (mostly because they hadn't been invented yet) but there are few conflicts since that they haven't gotten involved in, both contemporaneously and after the fact

yeah, mainly - inserting a comic book character directly into the frontlines of one of the most appalling conflicts in history just seems really, really tasteless.

the reason the captain america movie didn't feature him liberating concentration camps or kicking dr mengele in the nuts was (i assume) at least partially out of concern for the optics of playing dress-up against the backdrop of real-life atrocity. and the nazis he did fight were literal comic-book villains. although superheroes have been involved in real-life conflicts in comics they're usually fighting super-powered villains, and on the one occasion i can think of offhand where that wasn't the case (dr manhattan in vietnam in watchmen) it was far from a positive depiction.

maybe there's additional context the trailers haven't shown or something but nuance and subtlety are not the hallmarks of previous dcu movies so i'm expecting something not too far removed in tone from the infamous post-9/11 spider-man story with doctor doom weeping with grief at the site of ground zero

greek accents -- a good sign!

Dude, you're aware that the first issue of Captain America literally has him punching Hitler on the front cover?

yeah - i'm also aware that captain america punching hitler during wartime 70 years ago as a conscious act of propaganda is not equivalent to making a piece of filmed entertainment which uses the backdrop of real-life horror as an instant just-add-gravitas device

and is also the reason i specifically referred to the captain america movie, not the comic, and mentioned 'kicking dr mengele' in the nuts instead of punching hitler because i'm aware he does punch someone acting the part of hitler during the movie

Would rather see Wonder Woman in the trenches of 1977.

you should should read/see DC's New Frontier where Wonder Woman goes into Vietnam for a bit and chastizes Superman for staying out of it, it's good

for whatever reason, i'm not at all troubled by the use of WWI trench warfare, horrible as it was, as a "colorful" backdrop in a lighthearted fantasy adventure film. Same goes for just about every theater of WWII combat (excluding the German concentration camps, of course). That said, I'd probably be squicked out if Diana of Themyscira were chasing adventure & romance amid the Tutsi genocide in Rwanda.

you should should read/see DC's New Frontier

Sounds just right - thanks!

Captain America not punching any Nazis was the lamest and shittiest part of the movie. I think there's a way to do it that's, if not "tasteful," sort of within a genre that I don't think induces pain in audiences descended from victims of the Nazis. Raiders of the Lost Ark just about pulls it off, and I think it works because it's a comic movie with considerably more heft, oomph, and belief in its comic book cast than most of the recent ones, and because it's by a Jewish director who relates to the war in part through growing up on comic books and pulp serials. The closest he can get to expressing his anger at the regime is through this character and his cartoonishly solid punches, and the audience cheering when all the Nazis get blown away by the Jewish god.

I will say I loved the way they had Cap in a badly-received USO troupe deal - that was a pretty cool, fresh way to set it in-period. I thought they could have built from that to real Nazi-fighting, in a way that speaks to the most optimistic view of why someone like Steve Rogers would want to sign up for the war: to stop the Nazis. But then once he's actually out there fighting, it's against faceless, bloodless, PG-13 Hydra goons --- and alongside a history-rewriting integrated army unit. That's when it actually feels tacky and trivializing... the war is just a convenient backdrop to the disappointing, underwritten story. If they do that with Wonder Woman then yeah, it's dumb. If it turns into Paths of Glory, where the war's real inhumanity is pushed front and center, then you might have something. I would probably settle for some in-between like Raiders but I'm not sure anybody involved has a WW1 hook as strong as Spielberg's WW2 hook, to give it a real soul energizing the popcorn silliness.

http://2015wubucket.s3.amazonaws.com/giantape.jpg

too bad the movie isn't using this plotline

saving it for second-sequel crossover with the Kong Cinematic Universe, obv.

Kong ain't got nothing on Gorilla Grodd

https://twitter.com/Gotham/status/859215268572143616

...

This is the first Snyderverse movie that I might see, but I'm sure as shit waiting for the reviews to come in first.

that trailer don't sit good w/ me for reasons I can't rly put my finger on

Well we're almost a week out. Supposedly good buzz? Seeing it next Thursday evening in any event.

My comic book nerd friend made a good observation. The trailers are light and fun and funny, but ... something super dark has to happen at the end of this to make her vanish until Batman v. Superman, right? He figured that plus the WWI setting may mean this movie is more grim than they are letting on.

Yup, pretty much. I'm guessing Chris Pine dies heroically, the British steal Themysciran technology to create the atom bomb, something to that effect

It has to be bad enough to make her vanish for decades.

yeah i know i am excited about the major bummer too guys

Maybe she learns that the invisible jet doesn't actually exist, and that her mom just made it up?

;_;

Let's keep this upbeat - maybe she just goes on a long, long, evil-fighting mission to Mars, setting up an in-between pre-sequel where we see her battling Martians, completing the underground infrastructure to replace their canals, setting up a future Martian Manhunter franchise series, etc. It could be loosely adapted from Worlds of Ultima: Martian Dreams, with a bit of Sky Captain - a secret mission on a Deco-era diesel-powered spaceship piloted by Amelia Earhart, featuring a supporting cast of Roaring Twenties luminaries whose estates do not possess defensible likeness rights. Could be great!

However, this would also probably require that in a few years, when they reboot Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, they would have Wonder Woman make specific reference to her Martian adventure and how it's good to be back on Earth and so on. Kinda like Superman Returns. If needed, the difference between Earth and Mars gravity could also explain her getting stronger/weaker, whatever best serves the next few films in the franchise.

Alamo Drafthouse is holding 'no boys allowed!' screenings. Men are taking it predictably well.

They can't do separate men-only screenings, they'd have to dryclean the place afterward.

Anyway this is pretty great

http://jezebel.com/wonder-woman-worships-wonder-woman-1795577285

I should also note, though, this thing is over two and a half hours long, which, why.

I'll take a couple of hours considering the absurd lack of female superhero movies.

two stars from the guardian; this paragraph suggests that the things i thought were most likely to cause problems (the setting, gal gadot's acting) are indeed problems:

But there’s something rather distasteful about co-opting trench warfare as the backdrop to a sanitised, hyper-stylised fantasy. I couldn’t help thinking of Kendall Jenner’s disastrous “protest chic” Pepsi ad. And when Gadot is called upon to communicate the horrors of war moments later, reeling around dazed and confused in a haze of orange poison gas, it’s a moment of Zoolander-esque silliness that brings home how weightless the whole story has become. Gadot is entirely credible as the embodiment of Amazonian perfection, but there’s only so much emotion her concerted brow-furrowing can convey.

also it looks like there's a lot of snyder-esque slowing down and speeding up of the action sequences, boooooo

Gadot's widely praised in the other reviews though, often as the highlight of the movie

There is a long, proud history of accented action heroes of dubious acting abilities. Wonder Woman ain't getting cast for her acting chops.

I feel like directors should remember these movies are supposed to be for kids but I guess my taste is for the campy 60's era

also it looks like there's a lot of snyder-esque slowing down and speeding up of the action sequences, boooooo

Oh brother, was there.

(And yes, consider the rest of this post a spoiler, you are warned, but I'll try and keep it vague enough.)

Anyway, saw it just now. I will say first that my partner loved it, with reservations, but was definitely appreciative of a full gender inversion flip in terms of hero's journey/Bond style plotting, if you like. She also appreciated the hard physical work Gadot clearly had to put into the role, CG assists notwithstanding, and was also down with Robin Wright, David Thewlis and Ewen Bremner in particular.

As for me, two things I'd fix -- first, WAY too long, plenty of scenes/sequences could have been chopped down some and conveyed the same point. Felt almost like a home-release extended cut. Second, some really bizarre as fuck tonal shifts throughout, which I honestly couldn't tell was due to uneven scripting or uneven acting or both. And honestly I wouldn't fault Gadot much for that, since I think she was stuck with some really strange shifts in particular. The humor was the humor, Chris Pine was kinda perfect for this as the brash/confused bro.

The larger problem there was the one noted by the Guardian -- it's *realllly* trying hard to have its cake and eat it too when it comes to the setting and the theme ("War, war is stupid and people are stupid," per Boy George, and yet love and tragic selflessness conquers all, conveniently). The history buff in me couldn't turn off my brain enough to let the riff on the WWI scenario be what it was, but hell, I bought weird-ass shiftings of history with Inglourious Basterds so maybe that's my own fault. The Germans might as well be cartoon Nazis for the most part (and the 'let's all be friends under a new dawn' ending felt really off as a result), and there's a couple of 'how quickly can we bend over backwards and acknowledge, say, that American history isn't a cakewalk either and then not talk about it again' bits, of course.

That all said: yeah, probably the best of the DC films in the current cycle if only by default, would be fine with seeing it again. Opening sequence was striking enough, big showdown ending was serviceable/typical -- lots of shit gets thrown around/blown up/etc -- but there's a sequence in the middle which, caveats aside (sooooooo much fast/slow/fast there, plus the trench warfare setting) that was kinda worth the price of admission. You want Wonder Woman as a one-woman hyperwarrior badass, that would be it in spades.

these movies are supposed to be for kids

they are not. kids don't have any money. these movies are for man-babies, because they have money.

that being said I'm considering taking my daughter to see this but idk

My friends who've seen it hae been unanimous: more good than bad, especiaally the Gadot-Pine chemistry, way too many action sequences.

should also note, though, this thing is over two and a half hours long, which, why.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, May 26, 2017

see THIS is why I'm hesitating (and why I couldn't be bothered to attend a critic's screening).

jfc really? ugh

i'm surprised when i see that one of these things runs under two hours, everyone wants to make these movies as long as Heat now.

That seems to be typical for the DC movies.

Man of Steel - 143 minutes
Batman vs. Superman - 151 minutes
Suicide Squad - 123 minutes

I don't get it. I'm usually checking the time around 90 minutes in even for movies I'm enjoying.

especiaally the Gadot-Pine chemistry

Yeah, they work well together.

The length of the film wouldn't have been improved by cutting out whole sequences, they just needed to trim some of those sequences down. (It's not a case of 'too many action sequences' as it is more 'didn't this bit already end?')

that being said I'm considering taking my daughter to see this but idk

So long as she's okay with a couple of sex and dick jokes in the opening third.

I feel it is necessary to make you all read this line from Edelstein's review (http://www.vulture.com/2017/06/movie-review-wonder-woman-is-a-star-turn-for-gal-gadot.html).

It was worth waiting for Gadot.

I just

"Well, shall we pun?"

So long as she's okay with a couple of sex and dick jokes in the opening third.

2 1/2 hrs, dick jokes, weird presentation of violent military conflict = y'know, for kids!

yeah I'm not seeing this

what about your daughter?

She has already booked several showings.

I'm not sure she is even aware this movie exists!

these movies are for man-babies, because they have money.

― Οὖτις, Friday, June 2, 2017 9:10 AM (thirty minutes ago)

wonder woman is for all the babies

hold up i'm a man-baby but I'm fuckin skint tbh #notallmanbabies

lol @ hashtag

saw a tweet from Joss Whedon saying its good! He's totally unbiased.

Joss Whedon Joins DC for a Batgirl Movie, and More News - Rotten ...
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/.../joss-whedon-joins-dc-for-a-batgirl-movie-and-...
Mar 31, 2017 - WB wants Jordan Peele for Akira, Disney wants Beyonce for The Lion King, Aaron Sorkin wants to write superhero stories, and Fox still wants to remake Escape from New York. ... AVENGERS DIRECTOR JOSS WHEDON TO SWITCH TEAMS FOR DC’S BATGIRL. ... Obviously, WB/DC shouldn’t outright copy ...

DC Joss Whedon Replacing Zack Snyder as Justice ... - Comic Book
comicbook.com/dc/2017/05/22/joss-whedon-justice-league-zack-snyder/
May 22, 2017 - It's not a joke, The Avengers 1 & 2 director Joss Whedon will be replacing Zack Snyder on Justice League, after Snyder Announced he's leaving to deal with a family tragedy. The tragedy in question is a massive one: Snyder's daughter, Autumn, took her own life in March, at the age ...

At one point Whedon was going to direct this, years ago. He seemed like a perfect fit.

Spoiler heavy but some very good thoughts here in this discussion from the women writers at io9

http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-ultimate-wonder-woman-analysis-by-the-women-of-io9-1795760084

that idiot from the new york times liked this a lot.

yeah I don't trust a.o. scott

Haven't seen this, but feels like there's an understandable desire for this movie to be a success - to prove that female superhero movies can be good, and make a lot of money - if only to piss off those fanboys who've been moaning about female-only screenings. I thought people seriously overestimated Gal Gado's performance in Bat V Supe - possibly because she was one of the least worst things in it - and I'm not totally convinced that she's a commanding/charismatic enough presence to carry a film. But I will go see the movie, and see if a female (and almost certainly better) director than Snyder helps things.

Not at all invested in DC comics anyway, but DC's post-60s attempt to present WW as a great feminist icon, considering that the character's origins lie in a male bondage fantasy, and that the Wonder Woman comics have been largely written and drawn by men (and, on the whole, haven't been very good, bymmv), is v problematic, and compromised. Saying that, the character name is unimpeachable, the costume design is all-time, and for better or worse there's no arguing with the fact that Wonder Woman is by far the best-known female superhero (Supergirl second?), so it's about time there was a movie.

Marston's conceptions were utterly bizarre but he seemed pretty sincere about creating a sort of feminist hero. If I remember correctly, he was appalled there weren't any big female superheroes and his kinks were deeply tied into his philosophy of what society should ideally be like. He thought that eroticism was an ideal tool to get people to accept their proper roles in life.

and, on the whole, haven't been very good,

this is the sad truth re: the comics (I haven't read the latest GMoz one but am curious)

I think the "feminist icon" angle is more rooted in the 70s tv show

is there a Lynda Carter cameo?

Sadly no, but supposedly the theme music is referenced at one point (didn't hear it myself).

watching the trailers just made me want to go on a Xena binge.

also the world war one stuff makes me never want to see this. nothing more boring! if the sequel is wonder woman in space i will be first in line.

Took the kids to this yesterday, Ned otm -- some good stuff, Gadot is good, it's nice to have a legit woman-led superhero film, too long. You know the slowed-down action scenes are overdone when my 9-year-old comes out of the theater complaining about how they "always do that." Pretty entertaining overall, B-minus I guess.

lol 9yo otm

i'm going tonight, expect to be entertained enough, not expecting it to be Logan good but what is

I loved it. it's 80% a semi-realistic war film, for one thing; which not only makes it hearken back to golden age comics but also allows for the violence that is portrayed to have a more human dimension; contrast it with Guardians of the Galaxy which had that 'mowing everyone down with one arrow' scene that was played for laughs; there is nothing like that here. The dick joke is nothing that we haven't come to expect from a PG-13 movie by this point; this isn't Deadpool or something. Gal Godot is really good in the role. Obviously yes she is stunningly beautiful, but when she was originally cast I didn't know if she looked convincingly powerful; she is. Some have called this the best comic book movie ever; I'd still put Logan, the first Superman, the first Batman, and probalby the Dark Knight over this, but I liked it more than almost every Marvel movie, I think; so many of them are blurring together at this point.

(there wasn't a reference to the original theme song; the guitar/cello lick from the trailers I'd mistakenly though twas from the 70's TV series was written for Batman Vs. Superman which I still haven't bothered with and appeared there when she showed up, I guess. That recurs several times).

Complaining about Yondu's revenge on the mutineers in GotG and then repping Logan. Okay!

I wasn't complaining about it, I was just stating that it was gratuitous. it was. there is gratuitous violence in Logan too but Logan again has an added human dimension to it that balances that.

Semi-realistic war film kiiiiind of a stretch. It's a riff on an imaginative reduction of the war to a couple of trenches and a mysteriously mostly intact town. You have to suspend a lot of disbelief about a lot of things about the actual place/time, which, superhero movie, so very obviously so, but every few minutes was another stumbling block.

(My favorite moment in this regard: the refugee woman telling WW something like how they've enslaved the town for a year. You've been hanging out as a refugee in the trenches for a year?)

gal godot carries the movie just fine. of course she's kind of impossibly beautiful which helps a lot, but she conveys the strength, compassion, leadership, dignity, etc. - all the ideal traits of Wonder Woman - no one should take that for granted

i kinda wish that movie was less blue and grey for 2/3rds of it but that's cinematic lies of WWI/II that we can't shake culturally

Complaining about Yondu's revenge on the mutineers in GotG and then repping Logan. Okay!

Logan is literally about the price paid for leading a violent life. It's like "Unforgiven" or something, it's about violence, so of course it's violent. GotG is escapist pew pew fare that just happens to feature a winky sequence of violent onscreen mass murder set to some '70s pop song. All these comic book movies are innately violent, but the body count is typically off screen and amorphous. How many people die in Captain America? Iron Man? Who knows! I don't know if that's better or worse, but rarely is carnage played for laughs outside of Deadpool.

the trailers make WW look most similar to the first Captain America, with its pseudo-retro elements. Is this accurate?

Yes and no. It's the most obvious point of comparison (and would have been even more so if they'd stuck with the WWII origin story), but in terms of the actual 'look' as such, it's very much a DC/Snyderverse film in many ways. Oddly enough the film I kinda most compared it to in my head when it came to how it looked was Guy Ritchie's second Sherlock Holmes one.

If anything, the more I think about it, the flashback setup of the film manages a really neat trick in that it feels less heavily 'wow wasn't the past weird' as it is someone with memories in the moment turning them over again.

All these comic book movies are innately violent, but the body count is typically off screen and amorphous. How many people die in Captain America?

Civilian body count is the plot driver for Cap 3/Avengers 2.5.

the second Cappy has quite a few deaths too.

Highly recommend talking about marvel movies on the MCU thread, I could argue about body counts all day but this is ostensibly a place to discuss Wonder Woman, a film set during the Great War

fair enuff

the first 10 minutes of this movie was sparse-dialogued, dispassionate, tension-building, but largely mayhem-free war pieces that made me think "oh shiiit we're in for possibly the tonally weirdest wonder woman movie ever" but it turned out to be an unannounced preview for dunkirk.

This was a decently good movie, but by god was it ugly. The D.C. movie aesthetic is, as far as I can tell, muddled earth-tones, a few splashes of dirty primary color, and all the sunrises/sunsets you can cram in. So many clearly CG backgrounds, too. The composition is either Very Busy or Very Sparse, and there's no real depth of field. (London sequences being an exception).

yeah, I can agree with that.

I don't think marvel movies look that great either, outside of doctor strange

Oh my god what are you even talking about did you SEE the winter soldier

Overall I loved this. Pretty much everything I wanted from Wonder Woman ... my only complaints were:
- waaaay over-scored
-too much slow-mo

But WW herself was confident & commanding & caring & all of her fight scenes had me grinning like crazy. And Chris Pine was great - the two of them kept things from being boring

It's almost-but-not-quite up there with the first Cap America for me. Which I adore & love so in my world thats pretty high praise.

This is pretty cool
https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/culture/arts-entertainment/film-review-eugene-brave-rock-speaks-blackfoot-wonder-woman-dcs-best-film-ever/

can't wait to give steve mnuchin my money

she's on anthony quinn's level in terms of seeming almost really greek. even looking forward to the 'justice league' movie now (though it looks like they might have fucked up aquaman and made him a little too metal)

Crazy

https://io9.gizmodo.com/wonder-womans-most-fantastic-scene-nearly-didnt-get-mad-1795811939

But obv on good on Jenkins for making sure it happened.

RLM review made a good point that kids would be better served looking up to Jenkins as a role model than to Wonder Woman, fwiw. They liked the movie, and liked that for once the superhero got to be a superhero and get to save/help people, rather than fight a giant inter dimensional beam of light from space.

One observation they also made is that Gadot's acting serves this sort of naive take on the character well, but they don't think her chops will be good enough to work in the modern Justice League context.

This by Jill Lepore, who wrote Secret History Of Wonder Woman.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/origin-story-wonder-woman-180952710/

As Marston once put it, “Frankly, Wonder Woman is psychological propaganda for the new type of woman who, I believe, should rule the world.”

And, since “the comics’ worst offense was their blood-curdling masculinity,” Marston said, the best way to fend off critics would be to create a female superhero.

Christie Marston disputes a lot of the facts in the comments. But there's lots of interesting stuff about Marston and the women surrounding him. A Margaret Sanger connection. HG Peter's work at a feminist journal. Lauretta Bender's criticism of Disney films. Interesting details about Frederick Wertham. Marston's meticulous attention to fetishistic details.

Apparently Lepore's book includes something about Marston, his wives and his aunt at an orgy.

my theory of what will actually happen: Suicide Squad will outperform newly conservative expectations, causing Warner (and their lenders) to double down and commit to a release schedule. Wonder Woman will do fairly well, loads of thought pieces about culture shifts, "the first 250 / 500 million dollar superhero movie... led by a woman!" Marvel will finally commit to a Black Widow movie for 2020 when ScarJo is 36 and they need to cast her replacement. Flash will NOT do well. JLA will NOT do well. Aquaman will BOMB.
― ulysses, Thursday, April 7, 2016 2:17 AM

Banned in Lebanon. I guess all sorts of Hollywood films get banned there? Did it get banned anywhere else?

thanks for that article xps

No idea how many other movies get banned in Lebanon but considering Gadot is ex-IDF it's not surprising.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6133130/?ref_=nm_flmg_dr_1

Thought this might happen someday but not this quickly

Yeah, the cryptic trailer ran before WW itself, I admit I was a little bemused by it. Perfect place to run it, in retrospect.

had no idea til Sunday NYT profile that the Monster director did this. 13 years between features.

and they say it's hard to be a woman in hollywood!

We had the Justice League trailer beforehand and, Snyder-y as that will be, it didn't feel at all like a tonal shift afterwards. In fact, the whole 'God Killer' stuff felt more like a spoiler for fighting Darkseid than about the film itself.

So, I liked the Wonder Tot stuff. I thought the London sequence was pretty good (starting with shopping, ending with the guy eating the poison capsule). Ewen Bremner was 50% good, even if he was Spudding it up the first time we see him. I liked Said Taghmaoui, and could be won over by Danny Huston and Elena Anaya (even if she had a weird furrowed thing going on throughout).

But that was about it. Gal Gadot was dreadful, maybe never better displayed than when she was playing deaf against Chris Pine. That was as good as her acting got for me, and that was completely detached from the other actors in the scene. For all the talk of WWI, it didn't really feature much outside of the one scene where Diana goes over the top (talking of which, how did she get her cape back for the photo when she left it in the trench?) - the rest was generic everyplace, as kind of showed by the fact our heroes could pretty much move unimpeded as the plot allowed. So much t&o. So much Snyderaction. So much more t&o.

I thought Man of Steel was better than this, Bats v Supes was maybe as good and Suicide Squad was more entertaining. Give me Egg-Fu or give me death.

I think the No Man's Land scene is pretty obscene from a European perspective - this is a bloodless view of a war that ground Europe up into mincemeat for four years and all you have to do is get one person to run across the way and everyone else can follow them painlessly? It's "Captain America punching Hitler" levels.

That said, I liked the rest of the film, a little too much Chris Pine, but I liked that Ewan Bremner had no real arc - his thing is shooting, except he can't really shoot because the war has fucked him up, and.. that's it. There's no scene where he has to hit something from a mile away because it's really important and people believe in him or any of that shite. Also services to really terrible haircuts award.

There's a bit that I'm assuming that they haven't thought through, regarding the connection between the actual WWI armistice and WWII?

Shhh, you're giving it away.

My daughter (12) and her friend (13) loved it, but the latter thought it was basically just "Captain America" and the former agreed it was too long and there was too much slo-mo.

it's cool that war porn is woke when it stars a lady

trenchant

*somersaults into thread wielding a sword*

fuck all yall imo i saw it twice & as far as i'm concerned fucking great

:D

*somersaults into thread wielding a sword*

slo-mo or regular speed?

NOT RELEVANT

come to think of it, the sword seems like a more relevant fact

:D

it's cool that war porn is woke when it stars a lady

― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, June 11, 2017

my third favorite thing about this flick tbh (after chris pine as "the girl" and robin wright as "cool aunt") is how well it fucks with los feliz daycare moms who don't want their kids playing with "violent" toys

It's "Captain America punching Hitler" levels.

― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 12 June 2017 00:24

I'd like a Superman film in which he stops 9/11, defeats all the terrorists (nobody gets hurt), dismantles scientology, minimises the damage done by all the major natural disasters, solves the global warming crisis and imprisons George Galloway in the Phantom Zone. At the end Superman turns to the camera and shouts "Would you like this? Would you? Would you like this?"

so basically you liked Superman IV

Never seen it

https://media.giphy.com/media/s6sjzNBWsFs6A/giphy.gif

Actually never seen a Superman film from start to finish.

Does he solve all the worlds problems and shout at the audience at the end in the fourth film?

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/GregFriedman/2013-01-05_234538_color.jpg

Does he solve all the worlds problems and shout at the audience at the end in the fourth film?

not far off it, tbh

If you ever saw the Man of Steel and thought "What the franchise really needs is a 90 minute treatise on nuclear disarmament, complete with a character named Nuclear Man", this one's for you

Also lol that dude's name is Mark Pillow

I see an ah-fuck-it cheekiness to a script that calls for Nuclear Man to grow his fingernails long, scratch Superman, and give him the flu.

don't forget about Ducky

looks like I will be seeing this next week...

On the fence between good and good enough. Love the humanity, love WW when she gets to be WW. Weird/funny how so many characters are struck more by her beauty than superpowers.

Why didn't she stop WWII?

I enjoyed this a lot! saw it in 4d lol

Smell-o-vision?

My younger one thought it reminder her of "Moana." Limited frame of reference, granted, but I guess it could be *less* like "Moana." I admit when they first sailed from Wonder Woman land I half expected them to start singing.

You sure it wasn't more like Man of Aran?

lol it's totally like moana. gotta get off this island!

I think she responded to the mix of princess on the isolated island who disobeys her protective parent to fight an ancient evil that is affecting the outside world. That and the demigod stuff. And the animal sidekick, Chris Pine.

And like I said, limited frame of reference. She hasn't seen that many movies in total, and Moana is one she has seen a lot of the last year or so.

I don't know much about the character, to be honest. Is Wonder Woman immortal? How about the other Amazons? I was surprised to see a couple of them shot early in the film.

looved this

the absolute ballsy move to be as corny and loud about LOVE and HUMANKIND in those final scenes. That made the third act, which some people seem to have an issue with, a joy, and I was getting all teary about the relationship with Steve anyway.

I think that stuff is key to the film's success. It's sort of a small story, a nice alternative to the end of the world big beam of light shooting from space stuff that seems to affect every other superhero movie.

god the "love!" shit was the worst, the clear moral of the movie is that war and punching are our real saviours

Punching bad guys, you mean.

I mean, the whole point about love is built into the WW story to start with.

the love shit was the thing i liked the best :/

watched this tonight wanting to love it and was surprised by how bad it was. boring, generically written, woodenly acted. the entire backstory part was superfluous -- did anyone even care when her aunt died?

YES

an island of badass Amazon warriors and her aunt is badass warrior Robin Wright Penn i'll tell you who's goddamn superfluous and it's not her imo

the thing that is missing from this thread is anyone who had even the slightest emotional connection to this character

i mean there's s thousand think pieces out there already but there's a reason ppl are still going out to see this thing and maybe it's boring to all yall itt but it's also sparking some imaginations and making ppl happy and it is now kinda pissing me off that i cannot have anything like THAT conversation here bcz everyone's too cool and also this thread is full of almost all dudes who never gave a shit about WW in the first place

sorry but for a movie that made me so happy it bums me out not to share that here with... anyone really

I'll stan for this flick

fwiw I did a podcast with an OG WW fan and she felt v simikarly

lol *similarly

it's just...

she embodied all the things i wanted as a kid and i got to see her shown on screen as a kind, powerful and LOVING figure who isnt *just* flipping tanks

like ppl went out to this cold hoping for a feminist text and if u dont have much of a WW connection it may not be much of a movie

but what Jenkins allowed WW to *BE* , for ppl who really cared about such things and knew what could go wrong, who were more emotionally invested than they realized, it was like christmas in June

i havent given a shit about or stayed awake for a DC movie in i dont know how long but even the corniest notes of this thing just completely lifted me up because i can't watch it as a discerning grownup. I'm watching it as 7 year old Veg who dressed up as WW for superhero day at school and who thought Linda Carter was A MAZ ING and who needed WW to be all of those things and definitely, considerably more

i brought a lot of baggage to this one. i didnt realize how much but having a version of WW that made me proud to say "I wanted to be her" is huge

I spent about half this movie crying or almost crying. I'm in love with both of the main characters. I also want to be both of them.

Basically I bought both WW and Steve's earnestness and it slew me. They weren't tortured by dark pasts. They weren't caught up in their own individual stories at all, actually - they had feelings that sometimes overcame them, but they were focused on causes outside themselves. And they did it all with grace and humor and beauty.

So, I liked it.

I guess if you weren't torn apart when WW said goodbye to that photo of Steve with the plane, we don't have a lot to talk about. Never felt that in a superhero movie before.

Yes the emotional side of this was what I was trying to get to in my praise. The filmmaking is pretty classical in my opinion, notes sustained just long enough, just timed right, the action, the contemplative scenes in the village at night, by the fireplace, it's very good at moving you along, letting you reflect, there is a clear-eyedness to it, but yes, mostly, it's the earnestness of the two main characters that makes it sing for me, and as I said, the boldness of allowing something that might be a bit corny and naive to take center stage.

I really did like the moment where WW is struggling to accept that humans are just garbage people and not purely tools of Aries because it was an earnest moment.

imo she did the transitions between disbelief to heartbreak to rage just right as the movie progressed and she learned more about the "real" world and the flawed humans in it.

blah, poor phrasing there but you get the idea I hope

yeah I thought it was paced well.

not saying it was a perfect movie (the sexual jokes were cringeworthy), but considering what dumpster fires the other DC franchise films were, I'm kinda surprised at the lukewarm reaction here.

It felt closer to a MU movie than DCU

I believe I used the phrase "surprisingly touching" after we saw it

Here's a positive article about how it succeeded in knowing what to do with Steve Trevor
https://dorisvsutherland.wordpress.com/2017/06/05/wonder-woman-the-best-steve-trevor/

i'm generally not a big fan of the "it works despite its flaws" genre of art criticism and thought this was pretty much maudlin trash but i'm glad it was meaningful to other people

This movie ruled.

fwiw I did a podcast with an OG WW fan and she felt v simikarly

wtf how old is she?!

So I still want to know, can WW be shot or blown up? Is she immortal?

If only a God can kill a God, I guess not? I assume some cheesy line is incoming with Justice league and presumably Darkseid.

Yes WW is immortal (except for magic, losing her powers etc)

wtf how old is she?!

I wasn't using OG literally, I just meant...long-term, and hardcore. she's about 40 iirc

whose runs does she like?

Are the other Amazons immortal? Clearly not, because they were easily shot and killed. Well, relatively easily. And yet, they seemed be able to live hundreds of years, at least on that island. Is it a magic Island?

Oh idk about the movie i'm talking comics. Also immortal /= invulnerable

While not completely invulnerable, she is highly resistant to great amounts of concussive force and extreme temperatures and matches Superman[citation needed] in this[clarification needed] regard. Although, edged weapons or projectiles applied with sufficient force are able to pierce her skin.[101][106] Due to her divine origins, Diana can resist many forms of magical manipulation.

Interesting detail

https://io9.gizmodo.com/wonder-woman-actor-says-chief-is-actually-a-demi-god-1796389983

I need to see this movie

I read that elsewhere, very cool detail

And yes Tombot, you need to see this movie

saw this today, thought it was great, much to my delight and surprise. patty jenkins has broken snyder's deathgrip on dc movies - long may her influence be felt in the dcu

gal gadot and chris pine have great chemistry, and gadot is, totally unexpectedly, really good at projecting compassion and strength physically and otherwise. she's got a really kind-looking face, i think?

i was also taken aback by how moving it was to see a mainstream blockbuster featuring a bunch of totally confident and capable women not just kicking ass but like being supportive of each other too. it's 2017 ffs, it really shouldn't be a surprising or remarkable thing, but yeah it is and i was pleased and grateful for it.

i hope a lot of little girls and young women see it!

one more thing: diana as a character in this is totally committed to doing the right thing and standing up for the weak and the vulnerable. that's really a cool thing to see and it shows up even more what a dickhead snyder is for turning superman into an angsty dipshit who treats saving people with total disdain

i'd probably feel that way too if my dad killed himself to save the fucking dog

patriarchy vs matriarchy

I was all about GG when she first showed up in the fourth Fast Furious movie. she's amazing.

i thought she was terrible in the f&f movies tbh (and not great in bats vs supes either) but i really liked her in this. i assume patty jenkins' directorial style suits her better than snyder's too

Re: the earnestness or cheesiness.

I don't think Marvel films current brand of humor is much better than DC's grimdark. They both can feel like a reaction of embarrassment about old fashioned superheroes.

Never seen Wonder Woman but this video is so bang on the money on many points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-QhdzQo66o

Buffy and Angel certainly had their good moments but I generally dislike Whedon and his followers for some of this stuff.

Reminds me on this Le Guin review of a Gaiman book.

What finally left me feeling dissatisfied is, paradoxically, the pleasant, ingratiating way in which he tells it. These gods are not only mortal, they’re a bit banal. They talk a great deal, in a conversational tone that descends sometimes to smart-ass repartee. This chattiness will be familiar to an audience accustomed to animated film and graphic narrative, which have grown heavy with dialogue, and in which disrespect is generally treated as a virtue. But it trivialises, and I felt sometimes that this vigorous, robust, good-natured version of the mythos gives us everything but the very essence of it, the heart.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/mar/29/norse-myths-by-neil-gaiman-review

Fuck chatty smartass dialogue

rmde

Not agree with that video?

does she need to rhde again?

It doesn't spend a lot of time talking about Wonder Woman but I thought it was very complimentary about Jenkins approach.

great discussion

anyway if i had an 11 year old daughter i would take her to see this, i'm glad it exists. i guess for me the movie couldn't really decide what it wanted to be, it seemed a bit suggestive and dark for kids, but as an adult there was just too much that was hard to get on board with. run of the mill special effects and choreography, one dimensional characters, and enough awkward acting and directing moments to keep me distracted (when the aunt died and her finals words were like "you must...you must...*dies*" i actually felt embarrassed for whoever put in the effort to write that death scene)
i did think the final third was ok, tho

xxpost rmde @ "i havent seen the movie that ppl seem to like but i completely agree with this otm takedown " is the laziest most played-out ilx trope. at this point it's practically a posting template so forgive me for not weighing yr thoughts more heavily

That video isn't a takedown. It's pro-Wonder Woman.

He argues that recent superhero movies tend to undercut sincerity with comedy due to lack of confidence in the material, whereas WW doesn't do this.

well see i was parodying i uh well

anyway

hi

:D

Bathos is one of those words I kept forgetting the meaning of and I wish I had memorized, because it's pretty good.

i'm generally not a big fan of the "it works despite its flaws" genre of art criticism

― k3vin k., Sunday, 18 June 2017 17:36

Not sure what you mean by this. That's how I'd describe like 80% of worthwhile things. Working despite substantial flaws. Like most of my favourite films kinda suck ass.

Without going quite as far as Robert, I am curious whether kevin is setting out to only defend perfect things. Or is it that good things must work because of their flaws, that they acknowledge the flaws and work them into the material?

I think it's more that the flaws in "good" things are not large enough to deserve mention

it's like if you find dog shit in your seven layer dip and you say "man the dip was still delicious despite the poop I accidentally ate"

(fwiw Wonder Woman was awesome tho)

I mostly expect shit to be in the dip and only have 2 layers.

Most films that I love really only do two or three things exceedingly well and they get by on that.

I am a father of a six month old little girl, and someone who from 7-15 years of age thought about little else other than Marvel and DC.

The beginning moments in the film when lil Diana runs around Themiscyria, cheering on her sister Amazons, being free, vital, strong and having fun created instant waterworks for me. Nothing else topped that…

And I am grateful there was no "WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS AND THAT WITH THIS BELOVED CHARACTER/MYTHOS" geek bait in the movie. Don't get it was set in WWI insteada WWII, but don't much care. Walking out, my wife said "So that steve guy isn't going to become Captain America?" NO NO NO WW IS IN THE DC UNIVERSE……… "Sorry dude, I can't keep straight which universe every character is supposed to be in. Both actors are blonde hunky dudes named Chris."

Of interest

http://kotaku.com/wonder-womans-giant-painting-is-a-modern-masterpiece-1796440542

omg <3

They are really nice pastiches, I have to say.

Oddly (?) enough, the background/exposition bits in the recent DCEU stuff has always been pretty great. Thinking also of the bit in MoS where Jor-el is explaining Krypton's history, about 1:20 in in this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5bB96Mwidc

This movie was a lot of fun. I am extremely impressed they actually got me to like Chris Pine!

we talked a lot afterwards about how absolutely on point the casting was, ESPECIALLY Gal Gadot being an IDF veteran, because the accent works perfectly and because all of her main character beats are totally classic Jewish Lady

:/

"why isn't anyone doing anything about this?!?!? SIGH *goes over the top, blows up machine guns, annihilates significant architectural features to protect babies*

tbc this was important for us because my wife was able to immediately identify with WW for at least 3 reasons

god I can't wait to be dead

this movie wasn't good but i'm getting less and less mad at it as time goes by

I feel the opposite lol, didn't completely hate it while watching / immediately after, but the #slay #queen crowd (not so much people itt) are making me feel like I did

the ending was borderline incoherent, the exposition took forever, and the battle sequence in Act II needed to be edited down, but I didn't care about any of that because the characters were good and the action was fun and they actually tricked me into thinking David Thewlis WASN'T the big bad at first (nb: it is hard for me to pay a lot of attention to anybody who isn't Gal Gadot in a movie starring Gal Gadot)

also how many comic book superhero movies leave you with "supervillains don't gas children - men do" as the main take away?

At one point Whedon was going to direct this, years ago. He seemed like a perfect fit.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, June 2, 2017 7:01 PM (one month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That script got leaked a few weeks back and hmmm, it's not good.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/06/19/joss-whedon-wonder-woman-script_n_17210508.html

The "Whedon is a misogynist" tumblr crowd have been ripping it a new one. I'm not denying it has some issues on that front(there's certainly an unpleasant male-gazey tone to the script that feels a bit icky) , but honestly the main problems are more to do with characterisation, dialogue and location. Virtually all the action takes place in a fictionalised city which I suspect is supposed to WW's version of Gotham or Metropolis, but it only serves to make this supposedly adult and edgy version of the character feel less grounded and more comicy. Also, as well as being the POV character in this version, Steve is written as a real dick for some reason.

Also doesn't help that the script is over a decade old, and the smartass dialogue that is the Whedon stock in trade feels very tired after years of Marvel movies doing the same shtick.

I don't think the released WW film is perfect by any means, but I'm glad that got made and not this one.

they actually tricked me into thinking David Thewlis WASN'T the big bad at first

haha, my wife and i turned to each other as soon as he appeared and were like 'oh so he's definitely the villain'

i was kinda expecting the twist to be that zeus had killed ares in battle and the horrors of the war were 100% caused by mortals

warning: hot take coming

given whedon's track record with this sort of stuff with buffy, i bet his handling of the WW/dave sex scene and fallout is a bit more nuanced and interesting than "wonder woman gets some dick and now can save the world"

not reading the script tho, could be wrong

wonder woman gets some dick and now can save the world

I don't have a lot of love for this woke-imperialist movie but I don't think this is a fair criticism

The "Whedon is a misogynist" tumblr crowd have been ripping it a new one.

THere was a lengthy Twitter defense from someone (a woman, fwiw) in the industry, not as a Capt. Save-A-Whedon thing, but more of a "This was a draft script, and draft scripts don't get shot, and even when you're dealing with shooting scripts you deal with what's on the screen, not what's on the page." It was interesting, but I can't be bothered to find it right now. I'm sure it's searchable.

it's crazymaking that anyone would even have to say that, or that it would constitute a "defense"

wonder woman gets some dick and now can save the world

I don't have a lot of love for this woke-imperialist movie but I don't think this is a fair criticism

― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Monday, July 3, 2017 10:56 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's obv a very cynical view and one i don't actually fully endorse, but it's not that much of a stretch imo. i would say the relationship between WW and steve was at best conventional

i was kinda expecting the twist to be that zeus had killed ares in battle and the horrors of the war were 100% caused by mortals

She does think this for all of ten seconds, before Ares reveals himself. I think a case could be made that it would have been a better movie without Ares. I had hoped the big showdown at the end would be between WW and the mad scientist lady (who they could have given some crazy powers to)

Saw this last night. Enjoyed the middle parts b/c I thought the character interplay was fun. Last third had some fuuuuuuuucked up multi-reversing ideology, tho.

I seriously don't think they shoulda set this during WWI. The village fight scene was one of those bits where I actually had to say aloud, "she's not fighting Nazis, these are 18-year-old conscripts FFS"

The village has the worst bit of discontinuity in the film. She leaves her cloak in the trench before crossing No Man's Land (which was also the worst dialogue in the film) and the village fight but is wearing it in the photo taken after the battle (that Bats gives her).

Was it really a priority that she went back for it straight away so she looked good in the picture? Or did some of the Allies bring it with them as they pushed forward for the battle in case the woman that had just gone over the top into a hail of gunfire survived (and a presumption they'd win the battle while encumbered with someone else's shit)? Or did she send someone else back for it after the battle so she could bask in the gratitude of the villagers and take all the credit?

there was absolutely no need to set it in WW1. in fact it worked against it hugely because to get any sort of satisfaction out of the fights you have to pretend some poor german kids are the big bad. if she's smart enough to read 30 languages, why isn't she smart enough to analyse the situation and work out that the british and german aristocracy and military are to blame before smashing hundreds of people into walls? is her only power being able to hurt people well?

why do i try to analyse comic book films you say? BECAUSE THEY SET IT DURING A REAL HISTORICAL EVENT DIDN'T THEY UGH

if she's smart enough to read 30 languages, why isn't she smart enough to analyse the situation and work out that the british and german aristocracy and military are to blame before smashing hundreds of people into walls?

The cognitive dissonance between her relentless naivete and her book learnin' was very weird and funny to me, generally not in a good way

Likewise, as I mentioned earlier, why doesn't she eventually prevent WWII?

I mean, are we sure she doesn't

for real though there's an interesting contrast to be made between this movie and Skull Island in terms of handling a major 20th-century conflict, though technically the latter takes place immediately *after* Nam

Kong is also totally isolated on a secret island. WW takes place in the middle of a high profile war. Wouldn't the entire world (er) wonder about her for decades? Before the arrival of Superman and the advent of Batman, there would be entire books titled, like, "Who Was This Godlike Woman Who Fought On The Fronts Of WWI Yet Failed To Stop WWII?" Assuming she didn't stop WWII, of course, but from what little I know about Bat vs. Supes, neither of them knows who she is. Supes I can understand - can he even read? - but Batman is pretty literate, he should know his world history!

Though I did get the poorly conveyed impression that the millions of people fighting WWI were all operating under the influence of Ares. That is, at the confusing end there were shots of people taking off their helmets and masks and essentially shaking off the cloud of EEVIL. But if Ares can hypnotize people into being EEVIL (and/or design random pills that give random people random rage-strength), why bother making them fight at all? Anyway, best not to think about it, this movie has sat well enough with me, and my younger one now reads WW comics.

I wish movies would just be allowed to invent invent historical wars the way they invent countries

Anyway, best not to think about it, this movie has sat well enough with me, and my younger one now reads WW comics.

yeah, i made my squeamishness about the wwi setting clear at the start of this thread but in the end the strength of the lead performances was enough to get me through it

i dunno how much i'll be able to overlook it on future viewings but for now i'm happy that there's finally a decent dcu movie and i hope there's still time for justice league to learn from it

pretty cute how into superheroes my nephews, age 3 and 5 are

3 and 5 year olds are usually excited by power

Why would a woman that book-learned and fluent in countless languages apparently never learn the word for "snow"?

sapir-whorf hypothesis

The bizarre thing for me was when I saw the movie I'd just come back from a week-long tour of Belgian battlefields, and having heard countless stories of dreadful slaughter and carnage and visited so many war graves, it was a bit of a headspinner to have that as the setting for exciting super-punching action fun times.

It's also a bit odd when you consider how significant the Second World War was to Wonder Woman's origins, and which played a big part in the TV series as well. So why the change? They can't have been worried about ripping off Captain America surely, that movie was years ago!

Because then the movie would have been about Wonder Woman punching out the Manhattan Project.

with oppenheimer as the big bad, literally 'become death, destroyer of worlds'?

i'd watch the shit out of that tbh

Oh I think ILX would totally watch that movie. Hence the budget should have been in the $2500 range.

"A Mark Duplass Film"

ilx post-covers the wonder woman movie

i spent a few days camping with a group of friends & two unrelated 5 yr old girls had WW bathrobe & pyjamas, two moms had WW tshirts, and at one point the 8 yr old boy was playing "magic lasso" with some old rope he found by the river.. it was super cool seeing all the unplanned ww love :)

despite my historical issues, a lot of it was excellent, and she was hella charismatic and a lot of things were done super well. therein lies the frustration - and it's pretty lame that her next appearance is alongside total downer-bros Cavill and Affleck in the next one.

http://www.tcj.com/professor-marston-and-the-wonder-women/

Just a piece about some of the puzzling choices in the biopic.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasonwells/medium-post-gal-gadot?utm_term=.xhYANAr7KD#.vmGA1APmKq

13 years ago, Gal Gadot would have been 19 years old or so. I don't think anybody is a perfect moral specimen at that age. I don't appreciate Medium's handling of it, but then again, fucking Medium, you get what you pay for in a platform.

I read the original post before Medium took it down. If the account is true, not being a "perfect moral specimen" doesn't cover it.

Just read the webcached version. Fuck me, what a vile human being*.

*Assuming it's true as written

well okay then I guess she sucks

everyone sucks

dang

Can the fuller story be seen elsewhere?

Posts shit bigging up the IDF as well.

not sure why that's a surprise to anyone

Saw this two weeks ago -- a bit if all right as far as superhero things go. At least the action was intelligible.

Can the fuller story be seen elsewhere?

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fVArhMNLAXcJ:https://medium.com/%40imasurvivor/heres-how-gal-gadot-actually-responded-when-her-friend-raped-me-7aa7a2bea919+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

Warning: really pretty unpleasant reading. Starts off with her blaming a 15 year old victim for being raped, goes downhill from there.

This is good this is.

*spit take*

He's not wrong.

i liked it too, it just seemed uh dmac-proof to me

ITT Deems and Tombot agree on a movie

The last act drags but the first is a doozy and the second balances comic booky and plot furtherance well.

And uh gadot

The cognitive dissonance between her relentless naivete and her book learnin' was very weird and funny to me, generally not in a good way

― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 4 July 2017 13:41 (five months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Are u ppl kidding me or yourselves more in this place that's what I ask myself

Well, this is interesting news.

So excited to confirm the most thrilling news. Yes! It’s true! So incredibly lucky to welcome the sensationally talented Kristen Wiig to our Wonder Woman family. Can't wait to finally work with one of my favorites. And SO excited by what we have planned. #Cheetah!!! @GalGadot pic.twitter.com/Gn0jICiIAH

— Patty Jenkins (@PattyJenks) March 9, 2018

Wiig plays a hard-boiled undercover detective determined to find out who killed her father, Sir Patrick Morgan

huh, so i guess she's playing cheetah? guess we'll have to wait another few years before that wonder woman / egg fu bigscreen face-off that fans have been clamouring for

and this should be Cheetah in the 1980s, right? should be interesting

Great trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GQ5mWYwTtQ

not a fan of orchestral blue monday tbh

kinda dreading the explanation of how chris pine is alive but also happy to see him cuz chris pine is good fuiud

It's actually nice seeing DC get its shit together

I never knew I wanted to see Wonder Woman wreck Pentagon City mall until now, but I do!!

the first one was a bit over-long (why do these films always have one too many climactic battles?) but Gadot and the overall tone was great, will totally see this w my daughter

looks cool, not toooo much LOL 80's stuff going on, wish they'd just used the original Blue Monday though.

why do these films always have one too many climactic battles?

in their own way and in a different medium, they are replicating all those romantic symphonies that strive for a 'big finish' so long and overwrought as to leave their audience wrung out with induced emotion. when I hear those symphonies now I experience those climax-piled-on-climax endings as a musical joke instead of a passionate catharsis.

(I'm looking at you, Gustav Mahler!)

this might be the first one of these big budget superhero movies that is "not a hoax! not a dream! not an imaginary story!"
could unlock a subgenre of elseworlds? marvel is already doing a "what if" tv series right?

looks cool, not toooo much LOL 80's stuff going on...

I was actually hoping for big, unapologetically cheesy ‘80s indulgence... not “New Order ‘80s” (let alone “New Order Remix ‘80s”). Trailer disappointing!

I want some Fat Boys

Even her hair and makeup look more 1994 than 1984.