"I will keep you in suspense" - US Elections 2016: the Final Thread

begin writing your parody Trump concession speeches.... now

the aristocrats!

I'm not sure I could top the alternate Trump response in that Sopan Deb tweet.

(For context: https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/789174109745721344 )

Are we sure this is the final one? We've been getting like 5,000 posts a week or so and there are still 2.5 weeks left.

Since when has it been necessary in any democracy to "understand and engage" with people who lose three elections in a row? That's just illustrating what Ta-nehisi and others have already said repeatedly - that all white grievance in the US is automatically treated as valid and important. We don't need to go out there and discover what makes these people tick. They live in dying communities, they don't want to change and they are terrified of black and brown people. They don't want any help. They hate us. The end.

― El Tomboto, Thursday, October 20, 2016 3:05 PM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

noticed this in the previous thread and wanted to note otfm

is Andrew Sullivan alive? Someone check on him.

ya xp was gonna say there are almost three weeks left!!! no way is this the last

we've been averaging a thread a month

I wonder if there's a disarmingly cheeky response - on a par with #MuslimsReportStuff - to the strains of thought like "now we need to empathize with and assuage the asspain of the poor poor Trumpanoids."

Particularly the utterly indefensible "it's your duty to make racists see the light" view DJP posted about. Ugh.

I am not a clever enough bunny but perhaps the intertube hivemind will come through.

"but I do want to learn more about problems faced by rural/red state citizens and what we can do to help them and keep our country from falling apart."

don't blue states subsidize red states with tax dollars? that's helping them a lot. understanding them is another thing altogether.

I'm in the middle of reading Strangers in Their Own Land by Arlie Russell Hochschild, which offers a more in-depth approach to a similar topic. I was going to wait to start engaging ilx with this topic until after the election had settled down (and I had finished the book), but I do want to learn more about problems faced by rural/red state citizens and what we can do to help them and keep our country from falling apart.

How is the Hochschild book? I listened to a podcast interview with her. She's obviously smart, and I respect on a how she approaches that community as a practitioner, but (like the posts above) I'm skeptical of the project she implied in the interview, which is based around the aforementioned "understanding and engaging" as a political path forward. Embedded in this, I think, is a lot of assuming the "New Deal" coalition was "the norm" that we've tragically lost, all without taking into account that it was formed not by "cultural engagement" but by things like racist policies designed to get whites on board and powerful labor unions at the height of American industrialization.

xp from the other thread

“There have been irregularities in our elections, sometimes even fraud, but never to an extent that it affected the outcome,” said GOP Sen. John McCain, who is up for reelection in Arizona,

lol wtf John who ya foolin

if this thread is locked and another one started i don't know if i'll recognise it

also, good luck usa

maybe this was in the last thread, but: arpaio down 15 points in latest poll

a lot of assuming the "New Deal" coalition was "the norm" that we've tragically lost

New Deal was opposed tooth and nail by a very vocal and powerful minority that basically viewed FDR as a traitor

but yeah there is no mythical past (or any society, really) that didn't have a vocal disgruntled minority

good. Fuck that guy. don't think this can be asserated strenuously enough

Re arpaio

It's somewhat a pity, because they've been tricked and cheated by the GOP, who never ever cared for them. And yeah, the Democrats are the party that tries to help people with government, but what to do with people who vote against help, then shout out that nobody helps them? Obama tried to help, the Supreme Court decided that was up to the states, the red states refused to allow government to help their citizens, and the citizens clapped their hands, then shouted at Obama for not helping them...

To simplify, a lot of democracy is a fight for ressources, and if each of the two parties represented half of the people, and roughly alternated terms in government, then people would receive the same amount of help. But many GOP voters stopped voting for help to themselves, but instead started voting for hurting others, ensuring that women couldn't have abortions, LBGT people couldn't marry, trans persons couldn't piss where they want too, etc. If half the people vote to help themself, and the other half vote to hurt the first half, then the first half might not get everything they want. But the second half gets nothing. And they've gotten nothing, and they're mad as hell, but what's the solution, other than them beginning to vote for their own interests? And no, their jobs hasn't been taken by immigrants or NAFTA, and voting for the guy with the trillion dollar tax cut to the richest isn't helping themself.

Jeb Lund wrote a good thing:

The right wing came up with a pretty sweet gig in the 1960s when it lamented the lack of a conservative media to cosset ideas vulnerable to the scientific method and recorded events. In the short term, making things up takes no time at all; refuting fabrications takes orders of magnitude more. Ginning up bullshit tailors the discourse while forcing opponents to spend so much time trying to prove a negative that their own message gets lost in the outrage that, say, ACORN is running a white-slavery ring.

[...]

Already, Republican voters are being told that any Trump/Pence loss will constitute proof of a rigged election, and while Trump's refusal to pledge to honor the election results scandalizes political analysts as immediately disqualifying, their outrage misses the point. Donald Trump's rejection of essentially the entire of American history is disgusting, but talk show panelists don't have to live in that hell; they just cash checks for reporting on what the screams sound like.

We are a few weeks away from watching the Republican Party find itself immured behind a wall and haunted by phantasms of its own making, anxiety and despair only increasing as real, lived experience grows more terrifyingly distant from what it thought was true. This is a world that cannot be bargained with, because you cannot build a bridge between this one and the imaginary. You cannot compromise with an epistemology that rejects your existence.

Have we shared the important "Stakes is High" essay on here, re: that torched NCGOP office?

How is the Hochschild book? I listened to a podcast interview with her. She's obviously smart, and I respect on a how she approaches that community as a practitioner, but (like the posts above) I'm skeptical of the project she implied in the interview, which is based around the aforementioned "understanding and engaging" as a political path forward. Embedded in this, I think, is a lot of assuming the "New Deal" coalition was "the norm" that we've tragically lost, all without taking into account that it was formed not by "cultural engagement" but by things like racist policies designed to get whites on board and powerful labor unions at the height of American industrialization.

xp from the other thread

― intheblanks, Thursday, October 20, 2016 3:30 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I like the book, but I haven't gotten to any specific point or project yet. I'm reading it kinda slowly, only about a quarter of the way in.

having a bit of a hard time reconciling the pro-big tent, pro-moderate political strategies advocated by many of the hillary supporters on this board, particularly during primary season, with the more or less purist position taken over the last several posts in the previous thread. i mean i get why posting just about anything vaguely woke in that way is therapeutic given the current climate and probably even safe given the probable outcome of the (presidential) election -- and i know deep down most of us on this board agree, and wish it could be this way -- but it obviously kind of conveniently ignores basic civics and how government actually works and whom it answers to. hillary, for example, would probably strongly disagree

a lot of assuming the "New Deal" coalition was "the norm" that we've tragically lost

New Deal was opposed tooth and nail by a very vocal and powerful minority that basically viewed FDR as a traitor

― Οὖτις, Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM (fifty-seven seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, otm, not disputing that, i'm talking about the broadly defined mid-century dem coalition that combined the entire south, urban blue collar workers, african-americans, and the pro-labor intellectual class, all under the umbrella of one party.

Sabato's latest is fun

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/with-19-days-to-go-clintons-lead-is-bigger-than-ever/

I like the book, but I haven't gotten to any specific point or project yet. I'm reading it kinda slowly, only about a quarter of the way in.

no idea if there's a "project" in the book, what I described definitely felt like what she was getting at in the interview.

What do you mean, k3evin k?

i'm referring to the talk about how red-state voters don't need to be understood or accommodated

For the GOP the myth of the Restoration subsumes everything else. Candidates, policy positions – they're expendable if they feed the engine for a turning back to a Golden Age of America when the Constitution boasted only ten amendments. It's nihilism that once had élan when the Buckleys and NRO were in charge; now the ugliness is exposed.

yeah there was that sheen of gentility (which came in both northern and southern varieties)

Yeah, but how does that relate to the primaries, kev? I get the sense you might be referring to something I wrote, but I have no idea what your point is. I don't see the link. Bernie Sanders kept talking about a popular revolution and representing the 99%, while Hillary Clinton spoke to getting enough support to get shit through congress. I can't see why my new point doesn't match my old point, if it's me you're referring to?

well the 99% includes a lot of racists/xenophobes/nihilists who don't consider themselves part of the 99%, for one thing

having a bit of a hard time reconciling the pro-big tent, pro-moderate political strategies advocated by many of the hillary supporters on this board, particularly during primary season, with the more or less purist position taken over the last several posts in the previous thread. i mean i get why posting just about anything vaguely woke in that way is therapeutic given the current climate and probably even safe given the probable outcome of the (presidential) election -- and i know deep down most of us on this board agree, and wish it could be this way -- but it obviously kind of conveniently ignores basic civics and how government actually works and whom it answers to. hillary, for example, would probably strongly disagree

As an African-American, I strenuously object to and reject the idea that racial harmony can only be possible if I apologize for existing.

i'm not referring to you in particular, fred, nor am i necessarily rehashing a pro-bernie argument. i'm just pointing out what i saw as a contradiction. republicans, moderates, etc are going to have to be accommodated to get anything done in this congress -- this has been one of hillary's selling points, for better or worse! i just found the near-universal praise for a piece (which i didn't read btw lol i have an exam tomorrow) that from what i gathered put forth the argument that their concerns could be ignored pretty humorous. morally, sure, they should be ignored. on twitter and on ilx they don't have to be validated. but in real life, unfortunately they matter

xp dan i think if anyone has paid attention to my posts in the politics threads over the past 7 or 8 years -- and if you haven't i don't blame you -- they would know i'm not a big-tenter, lol

Hillary has said that half of Trumps supporters were deplorables whom we shouldn't listen to. So she probably would agree with us. I don't think the smart way of governing would be to kowtow to the Trumpkins, rather a combination of trying to appeal to moderate republicans (or rather, create some...) and executive orders. And turn the Supreme Court to the left for a generation. What else is there to do...

I didn't particularly like the piece, btw, so that part of your argument I understand :)

There is a difference between "how does someone we elect into office find common ground with people who disagree with her and want to see her fail" and "how do we assuage the concerns and fears of an electorate who supported a literal white supremacist". It is not contradictory to want/hope for a President who is good at working with people politically opposed to him/her in order to get things done while not wanting anything personally to do with the electorate that put the intransigent people there in the first place.

not sure it's necessarily a contradiction - you can want to coalition with moderate republicans while writing off extremists as too radical to participate in civil society

DJP said it before I could. Elected officials and constituencies are different things.

xposts k3vin the article (which is pretty short btw) is a little more nuanced than that.

...But I know a shit-ton of people down South and in the Midwest, working- and middle-class whites, most of whom never went to college, some not even graduating from high school, who think Donald Trump is a fucking hateful fraud, a showboating pissant, and a giant talking turd. When you try to "figure out" what drives Trump supporters and think that those of us who say, "Yeah, fuck them" are smug coast-clinging liberals, you are insulting the fuck out of the millions of people in Trump country who grew up in similar circumstances and decided that being racist, sexist, Islamophobic, anti-immigrant, and conspiracy-theory-loving jerk is wrong and work to make their area of the United States a little more tolerant and progressive.

i guess people might be otm'ing if various reasons, but for me, the takeaway is fuck trying to "understand" the clear white nationalist racist misogynist homophobes that make up a big chunk of the trump coalition. there's nothing to understand there. but that doesn't equal ignoring red-state voters in general. there are plenty of conservatives who fit into the description in the quote above. i know many of them. i grew up in the middle of nowhere, missouri, and i know plenty of terrible fucking racists, and i also know plenty of people who are disgusted by everything trump represents. we should try to understand and accommodate the latter group, sure. but it's a complete waste of time trying to "understand" a gung-ho trump supporter. so fuck them.

also i am not a big clinton supporter and i don't advocate for the big-tent triangulation with "moderates" strategy

DJP said it before I could. Elected officials and constituencies are different things.

― Οὖτις, Thursday, October 20, 2016 4:09 PM (three minutes ago)

eh, not when the elected officials more or less govern based on right wing Facebook memes their constituents share, but ok

there's not going to be any triangulation anyway - we've already seen how McConnell acts as Minority Leader. And Ryan is going to be taking fire from the Freedom Caucus from day one, you're never getting anything out of him.

not when the elected officials more or less govern based on right wing Facebook memes their constituents share, but ok

it varies from district to district and rep to rep (or senator to senator). some are smarter and more maneuverable than others.

I mean on the one hand there's Inhofe, who is an out and out moron that probably accurately reflects his base. and on the other hand there's someone like Lindsey Graham, who at least gives the appearance of being rational.

Is that how it works:

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/789196393202278400

Meanwhile, honestly for all the heavy breathing I see Trump's idiocies the last two days re conceding as just forced hoohah, and so, it seems, does his base as such:

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/789177665274023936

BTW this is fun

https://t.co/6TOEaxybOW

Just browsing the_donald for schadenfreude guffaws and their top posts currently include such gems as "No evidence, or proof Russia hacked USA! Just another Hillary Lie!" - what do you think is the craziest thing Trump could say and still have them parroting it? Or have we reached the point where there is no answer to that?

"Hillary has a penis"

"Actual blood relative of Bills"

"There are secret electronic pulses built into the electronic voting booths so that when you vote for me, you get an electric shock until you relent and vote Hillary"

"dogs can't look up"

Princeton at 99% HRC which seems about right at this point, can we all tune out now

"I never could've assaulted these women because I'm a homosexual."

World's worst Hollywood Squares right here

https://twitter.com/JonLemire/status/789199107915026432

More like Alfred E. Newman, right?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KXSyKS0QaFU/VpxnUGLfL5I/AAAAAAAAGR0/Vkmo6y4DDlE/s1600/FullSizeRender%252827%2529.jpg

It doesn't even matter but I want the oppo bomb to drop already and kick him while he's down because it will make me feel good and I need something to make me feel good.

Oh joy, Bloomberg will be there, too. Should spark wonderful conversations.

I don't even need oppo, I'd be happy if someone just kicked him.

btw, this is a bit niche-audience, but every time i think of trump's sinister, unappealing declaration "I will keep you in suspense," I just flash on Phoney Bone's torn campaign balloon declaring, seemingly, PHONCIBLE P. BONE WILL GET YOU

i'm not referring to you in particular, fred, nor am i necessarily rehashing a pro-bernie argument. i'm just pointing out what i saw as a contradiction. republicans, moderates, etc are going to have to be accommodated to get anything done in this congress -- this has been one of hillary's selling points, for better or worse!

― k3vin k

anybody who believes that "accomodation" is possible under a hillary clinton presidency is fooling themselves. the republican leadership has been beating the "compromise = surrender" drum for years and years and years, and i'm persuaded that they mean it.

i know bleeding hearts have a hard time seeing suffering and doing nothing, and a lot of trump voters are suffering- i don't mean financially, most of them make more money than me, but there yes is genuine suffering there.

the main thing is, you know, let's not be codependent here. you can't help people against their will. if they're going to die screaming that they don't need no help from the gub'mint, that's beyond our reach as a nation to fix.

It doesn't even matter but I want the oppo bomb to drop already and kick him while he's down because it will make me feel good and I need something to make me feel good.

― Evan, Thursday, October 20, 2016 5:29 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i would recommend downers?

The point is more to see the melting anthropomorphic circus peanut hurt

k3vin i appreciate that you're under time constraints re: reading the thing, but basically the complaint you're raising is off-topic and basically if time is short i'd say put the time into reading it, rather than this response. but anyway the text isn't about cutting deals in congress or getting things done, it's about the idea posited by white liberals that the important hand-wringing project of the day is how to understand the virulent white nationalists and psychos who have staked their coup-ready fervor on trump's maniacal campaign. it's writing off those people and emphatically not writing off their non-maniac red-state republican brethren.

https://twitter.com/TUSK81/status/789134196614631425

Here's the "Stakes is High" post from a few days ago:

https://medium.com/@cd_hooks/stakes-is-high-6b45374e0157#.sz7sf5ynw

my least favorite De La album

http://i.imgur.com/KTtsD4W.jpg

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-campaign-website-donation-ticker-2016-10

Via: https://twitter.com/jackdanger/status/788957216120254464/photo/1

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-campaign-website-donation-ticker-2016-10

― Evan, Thursday, October 20, 2016 4:55 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Via: https://twitter.com/jackdanger/status/788957216120254464/photo/1

― Evan, Thursday, October 20, 2016 4:56 PM (thirty seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Because of course it is. His entire damn campaign is a hustler in a top hat with a hole in it selling you circus tickets for your whole family at a discount while behind him the circus is packing up to blow town.

lol

can't we just wrap this up a little early

https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/789197899024338944

xpost I was thinking the other night we seem to be in that zone where a not particularly loved or useful TV series is about to broadcast its final episode but that we had to get through the timekilling two episodes before it first.

Timekilling activities: https://twitter.com/untimelygamer/status/789139187819610113

*walks out of theater showing a two-year-long adaptation of dante's inferno into the cold, clear night*

xpost It's a shame about Ray.

I admit for me it's also because I've already voted -- mailed in my ballot Monday -- and as there was something like 16 state props and almost 26 city ones (no, really), I am interested in the results but...it's going to be a while. Honestly the city races here in SF are the only 'exciting' ones we're having this year.

I remember high school friends singing that at me and 14-15 year old me going "why are you singing that, where is that from?" for a while there

xpost

And once I'd actually bought the tape it was even more annoying

See also: kids at summer camp calling me "rain man" and me not getting it

anyway that has nothing to do with this thread, does it.

It's a shame about rain man

i shouldn't whine as the effect of a trump win on my life directly would probably be kind of sucky to minimally sucky but christ this has been unpleasant, a thing literally everyone has been saying for months.

@scottbix
President Obama: Marco Rubio is "willing to be anybody just to be somebody."

burn

It's a shame about rain man

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, October 20, 2016 5:15 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Touche.

about that poll on trump supporters, you are reading the question wrong.

Will Jordan ‏@williamjordann 3h3 hours ago
Among Trump voters:

If HILLARY CLINTON wins the election, how likely is it to be the result of voter fraud?

Likely 83%
Unlikely 10%

Makes a little more sense there!

Meantime, why this isn't a problem at all!

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trump-national-political-director-steps-back-from-campaign-230120

Jim Murphy, Donald Trump’s national political director, is no longer playing an active role on the campaign, according to three sources briefed on the move.

"I have not resigned but for personal reasons have had to take a step back from the campaign," Murphy said in a statement to POLITICO.

His staff really are like the drummers in Spinal Tap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW6W9iOjTKM

haha yes exactly

As far as understanding Trump voters, i know three. One is a real estate agent whose reaction to the breaking of the Ray Rice news was "there ain't no way he hit that bitch", wrote an anti-Common Core song on acoustic guitar, and thinks Henry Rollins is a "pussy" cos he's Liberal.

I think I learned all I needed to about them.

You sure you're not living in a comedy sketch

wrote an anti-Common Core song on acoustic guitar,

there a youtube link for this or what

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZXFdikh-70

guy in the corner of the room at a party singing an anti-Common Core song on acoustic guitar

is there a better named candidate than Brickley Paiste?

He looked hurt when nobody was listening to it

oh right: Evan Bayh

xpost

Xxpost

he wasn't hurt when he realized he'd written an anti-Common Core song on acoustic guitar?

sheepish, at a bare minimum?

You kidding? Guy probably fancies himself to be a new Dave Matthews.

Evan Bayh. The "b", "y", "a" and "h" are all silent

I wrote a jazz ballad about Simpson-Bowles.

Grover Norquist‏ @GroverNorquist

One hour into this debate and the 10 million vapers are waiting to hear who will stand against prohibition.

Oct 19, 2016, 7:00 PM

A waltz about Sarbanes-Oxley

I've never more wanted to punch grover norquist in his dick. SHUT UP.

I'm fascinated that his new political hobbyhorse is vaper rights. The first couple times, I thought it was joeks, but he's absolutely for real.

He went to Burning Man in 2015, changed his life!

Head in the clouds, man.

Nice thread title.

I actually enjoyed watching this Al Smith dinner (just about to start) in 2008 and 2012. Seeing Obama and McCain, and then Obama and Romney, trade jokes and compliment each other was, as staged as most of it was, and as hokey as this sounds, a nice break from the din.

Not surprisingly, Clinton and Trump haven't even looked at each other. How do they even fake their way through the next hour?

The ABC News channel on Apple TV has the live feed of this with no commentators so we can watch everybody eat dinner.

https://twitter.com/xwnklmnx/status/789138575749066752

lol what is this stupid farce?

the image of all these people being friends fills me with rage and disgust

(talking about the dinner for people whose aren't watching cnn)

So weird

these is so uncomfortable.

It's disgusting

making jokes about "pardoning" hillary and hillary is laughing?

Hillary laughing at Trump's sad attempt at a joke is exactly why people can't stand this shit

Why is he still up there? Why do we tolerate this show horse garbage? I thought these people were supposed to stand for ideas

Fuck everybody who owns a tuxedo

His best joke...amounts to humiliating his wife.

He's getting booed! At the Al Smith dinner.

no vestige of a beginning, no prospect of an end
when we all disintegrate, it will all happen again

someone should throw a knife at him

unlike every candidate ever, he has made these remarks without jest for 18 months

the folks behind the dais look pissed.

He reads at a 2nd grade level.

Yeah hes such a dick he's bombing

This is just unbelievable.

this is more like it i guess. idk. it was stupid when they were acting like trump was their friend.

Fuck this fucking asshole

Kind of amazing. Now I'm glad I watched.

Damn. This is BRUTAL.

I'm at my computer listening...I can't bring myself to actually watch.

I'm watching in a bar and ignoring the CC and just the faces of everyone else in the field of view is giving me a frisson of nausea by proxy

if he chokes on a hot dog and begs for the Heimlich, Hillary should walk over to him and say "you must be new here, we the best man" and walk outside

the fossils behind him look horrorstruck

If you've seen the roast episode of Larry Sanders, this is somehow more horrifying.

Wtf is he talking about. I actually thought for a second he might be ok at this

The dude on the left / Trump's right looked genuinely ill

lol someone really yelled "Jerk!!"??

I like that there's a damn priest sitting between trump and clinton

not a priest! a jolly irish cardinal

So what does Clinton do? Hope she self-edits as she goes along and tries to be as innocuous and forgettable as possible. Because Trump's five minutes will be combed over for the next week, at least.

"how bout those Cubs?"

Is it normal for pro-choicers to get a warm reception at this thing?

well, these are two of the least funny people on the stump since Hoover

@danmericaCNN
Trump now being booed - loudly - for saying Clinton is "pretending not to hate Catholics." Someone yelled "finish."

this sounds amazing

Hillary sounds good!

"I'm fascinated that his new political hobbyhorse is vaper rights."

There is a late model black Chevy sedan with all of the parking lights custom blacked out that has the following stickers on the back.

Cursive type Jesus (w/a Superman diamond for the middle S) in back window
Ruger Firearms
Trump: Make America Great Again
I Vape and I Vote

Been trying to figure out whose car it might be, but have not found out so far. I think there is a decent chance it is not a guy as I work in a hospital and there really are not that many guys that work there and the old dudes that work in facilities all got pickups.

man clinton is cleaning up with the shittiest dad jokes ever.

sorta reminds me that she's a different person after a couple cocktails

Good Mike Pence joke!

"basket of adorables": C+
"formal pantsuits": A

i hope she is secretly sloppily, viciously drunks and that she unloads on donald after warming up the crowd

LOL @ Giuliani mouthing, "What's a four?"

that statue of liberty joke.

"Donald moved on the buffet like a bitch..."

hahaha

someone should throw a knife shoe at him

fixed

Re Bloomsburg: "It's a shame he's not speaking tonight, I'd be curious to hear what a billionaire has to say"

I need to watch this whole thing

LOL @ Giuliani

giuliani reaction shot, brilliant

Poked my head in the room and oh, that look on Guiliani's face...

holy shit, cannot wait to watch this, donald trump being booed off the stage by scions of nyc high society will probably haunt him for the rest of his life.

these jokes are cutting deep

ICE COLD

I hope Garrison is watching this and sipping a scotch.

the line about his campaign managers made me guffaw

lol at Trump's email/wikiLeaks joke. even from a joke construction standpoint it was clumsy and too labored

the Putin horse joke!

this is brutal

anyone getting the impression that Melania would rather sit next to Hillary?

lol after Trump said "HIllary's not laughing as much as the rest of us", did someone really say "nobody's laughing!"?

https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/789276963441614848/video/1

I am watching this on repeat

Clinton's getting received pretty poorly, but I'm sure that'll be forgotten in light of Trump's speech.

she could have walked on the stage, put the mic under her ass, and farted, then sat back down, and still came out better than him.

I thought you all were exaggerating until I watched the vid above

Al Smith winning the presidency in 1924 is one of my great 20th century what-ifs.

that was one of her best speeches

^

yeah

agree

bishop dolan actively calling out donald trump. boy.

she almost has music when she thinks through those boilerplate lines

She'd had a drink

a pink lady?

SOTU checklist: make sure she's had some wine

Hillary's havin' fun

haha that was Mike Deaver's strategy with Reagan (he and Clinton are the same age, no?)

Jeffrey Lord's comforting himself with the idea that no one will know or care about what was said tonight. Ninety-nine out of 100 times he'd be right. But does he really think the clip about pretending not to hate Catholics won't be unavoidable tomorrow?

Trump wrote all those jokes himself didnt he

Clinton & Trump speeches were brutal in entirely different ways

There wasn't even anything joking about "pretending not to hate Catholics." He just threw it out there.

getting through that two-minute clip of trump was almost impossible. it plays like in a comedy where the point of the scene is that someone is terrible at telling jokes, squinting and reading them slowly off a card, nobody laughs... wow.

"I'm the life of every party I've been to, and I've been to three" was a bit Liz Lemon

Judis usually drives me up the wall, but he called it - Trump is a Lenny Bruce character: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/--100785

One of his bits, about a comic who plays the London Palladium, perfectly sums up what has happened to Donald Trump in the fall election. (Click on the link to hear it.) It’s about Frank Dell, a third-rate comic who plays Las Vegas lounges, but who tells his agent he wants to play a “class room” like the London Palladium. The agent tries to discourage him, but Dell insists -- “I’m going to murder these people” – and the agent gets him booked there.

just realized what we really need is a debate that is just the hardest of hardman zings

That may be the first time I've seen Trump laugh.

Even if they were mostly jokes at his expense.

trump's never been as likeable as when he was laughing at hrc's zings.

Likable enough. They should still cast him in Ow My Balls.

After she wins, she should deliver one joke at Trump's expense for her first 100 days.

In context, the "pretending not to hate Catholics" thing felt like the Seinfeld episode where George fails at zinging someone, then just shouts 'I had sex with your wife!"

Another fictional blueprint for Donald Trump, stand-up comedian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aPqhFUvo8E

He loves when people talk about him!

all the issues where he gets angry about are when it's about a person he wronged, and the focus is on the person. if you could make it about him, he'd be cool with it!

Wrong

Sad!

FIX

LOL at the pardon me joke

this asshole is the kind of guy who says "just kidding, just kidding" at a roast. in 2016!

https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/789276963441614848/video/1

the way he goes forward with Hillary isn't laughing as much as the rest of us! after the chorus of boos is Homer Simpsonesque

who is the woman in red behind the speakers? the one with the boobage? she looks familiar but i can't think of who she is.

CNBC's Maria Bartiromo

Maria Bartiromo?

xp She skipped on over to Fox Business now.

ah right. and hillary just said her name in the clip i'm watching. i haven't had cable for so long.

i believe you but i really somehow believed it was brandy burre circa 2005 and we are all somehow in the dumbest episode of The Wire ever

heh didn't know that re Bartiromo

xp, as proof:
http://cdn.moviestillsdb.com/sm/e92efece1c9999a5a633c75d6994e405/the-wire.jpg

Trump's unearned smugness when he said "Hillary isn't laughing as much as the rest of us" kinda reminds me of Fred Willard's character from Waiting for Gufman.

"Strike it? We've worked with Corky before, we know all the acting terminology"

the "I don't know who they're angry at, you or me" was a delightfully hilarious attempt at deflection. like why would they be loudly booing if they were angry at Hillary, they'd be cheering you on, you brisket-head

Rosie Gray (@RosieGray)
3 hours ago - View on Twitter
So I have a senior Trump source claiming Trump wrote his Al Smith speech himself. 🤔

You don't say.

Are there betting odds on whether or not Trump is still a married man this time next year?

Because it seemed like the joke he was most proud of tonight was at his wife's expense.

Plus all the sexual assaults and stuff.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xFXIFYbOD5DFh6/source.gif

the future rules

This is the world we live in
And these are the hands we give it

Bumper sticker update: many more Trump stickers in my neighborhood this week. One of my neighbors, who had still been sporting a Romney Ryan after all this time, has stacked a Trump Pence on top of it. I've seen several white stickers that read "Trump Truth". These are not currently available on the Trump site, so it's possible they're bootlegs. Was stuck in traffic behind a Marine Mom who Doesn't Believe the Liberal Media and is still carrying the torch for Carson.

Al smith dinner was the highlight of the campaign for me. The first glimpse of a post-election future.

I think that may have been H's best speech of her life?

As I expected, the Al Smith dinner was even one of the lead stories on Canadian radio this morning. The Trump people last night who were saying it was just of interest to media types either didn't understand how badly Trump miscalculated or were (yet again) pretending they didn't understand.

https://i.imgur.com/zglIKRT.gif

Yeah, that Statue of Liberty joke, ouch.

I thought the Statue of Liberty joke was her best one, but it didn't go over well in the room. Was simply acknowledging the sexual harassment/assault story too much? To me, it was a joke that got its point across but in a relatively innocuous way--it wasn't "Donald's trying hard right now to pretend he doesn't love groping women."

She should've picked a different number. 'A four,' out of context, is easily misconstrued because homophones. 'A three' probably would've landed better in the room. Or she should've omitted the post-punchline pause.</jokemechanicsnerdout>

I didn't get it until she clarified she could be a five if she changed her hair etc. so I was as silent as the audience at first. Like I didn't understand she was saying "a 4"

some of the media is doing its usual downplaying of the boos by pointing out HIllary got cold reception at times, "candidates traded awkward jabs", though a few have pointed out that his boos were definitely the loudest.

I mean the video speaks for itself, obv

In terms of surgical bloodletting, the billionaire line was the best by far.

Apropos of nothing I looked up the precinct-level results for Cuyahoga County in 2012 to see how my particular neighborhood voted. I live in Cleveland Heights, an East Side near suburb bordering Cleveland that's considered fairly, if not very, liberal. I was interested to see how a small concentration of conservative voters -- in this case, the Orthodox Jews who are a large part of my precinct -- can affect results.

Obama won Cuyahoga County overall by with 69.32% of the votes. He won Cleveland Heights with an astonishing 84.64%.

In my precinct, with 1158 registered voters and 826 ballots cast, he won with only 55%. My precinct had the smallest margin of victory of any of Cleveland Heights's 37 precincts. The precincts bordering mine had Obama win percentages of 83%, 83%, 81% and 66%.

That year, nearly every single Orthodox family on four streets had a Romney/Ryan sign. (As well as signs for Republican Josh Mandel, who was challenging incumbent Sherrod Brown for Senate.) This year, not one of them has a sign for anything at all.

in indianapolis, gary johnson has more yard signs than trump does. johnson does make me roll my eyes, but if people feel like they need to, they might as well go ahead.

i don't feel like there are as many signs out as usual. nor bumper stickers, though bumper stickers have become less and less popular as a political statement over the years. i feel like there were more bumper stickers during the primaries. maybe it's selection bias. i wouldn't put a clinton bumper sticker on my car, both because i'm not super proud to support her and because i don't want to risk the vandalism, but i'm definitely voting for her.

one pretty interesting sign lineup in front of a big house around here- signs for the whole republican slate of candidates, and then a sign for the democrat john gregg for governor. (no signs for presidential candidates at that house.)

there are like no Clinton signs here and few bumper stickers, most I see are for Trump, but this has more to do with Trump voters being loud, obnoxious assholes about liking Trump than suggesting he's the most popular guy in my county.

i got my mother (who is a HIllary supporter) a HIllary action figure for her birthday

I guess it's not really an 'action figure', more a 'figurine', though it would be cool if the limbs moved and did karate

I saw I think my first Trump sign ever when I was in Daytona last week.

there are quite a few near businesses in what they call the Milk District here (which is another way of saying, a more affluent part of town)

i wouldn't put a clinton bumper sticker on my car, both because i'm not super proud to support her and because i don't want to risk the vandalism, but i'm definitely voting for her.

I haven't experienced any vandalism yet, but I'm concerned. I'm taking it off as soon as the elections over.

I forgot to mention that there is a prominently-placed Clinton Kaine yard sign in my neighborhood - one of the first houses on the main road in. That's gotta piss off so many of the Trumpites who drive past it every day. I just checked my precinct results for 2012 and it was 492 Obama to 674 Romney, which is better than I thought, to be honest.

bemused by fixation on yard signs and bumper stickers tbh

same

Well, for me at least, it's interesting that there are far fewer than I've seen in past elections. It's a visual indicator of the general lack of enthusiasm.

bemused by fixation on yard signs and bumper stickers tbh

yeah it's the weirdest thing idgi

amazed how few people are choosing to wear straw boaters emblazoned with their chosen candidate's name this time around

The only noteworthy thing I've seen in that regard was a car plastered with incoherent ravings about Hillary that were printed out on 8.5 x 11 sheets and then taped all over the trunk and rear bumper, alongside an Infowars sticker and another indicating the driver's willingness to brake for Beatles fans. My gf got a picture but I urged her to make haste because the chances of the owner owning a gun they were willing to use seemed relatively high.

We get lots of American tourists in my local, and I leave them alone (unless they have a pirates hat or some such) but a couple of the old guys here insist on asking them about politics, which I feel is rude and likely to make people uncomfortable. Anyway a couple were in the other day, and someone asked them about trump, and I eavesdropped. She was soft Clinton, he wouldn't say how he was voting, but he did say 'she's a murderer, though, you can't escape that'. But at one point she said 'but the people who vote Clinton, they're the ghetto people'. Blech.

he did say 'she's a murderer, though, you can't escape that'

well there is that

i don't think paying attention to yard signs is any worse than actually listening to the music they play in cvs.

Harden My Heart by Quarterflash, this morning.

I live in a v liberal neighborhood which you might expect to be holding its nose while voting for HRC but in truth there are Clinton-Kaine signs at literally more than half the houses. Sometimes accompanied by a faded Bernie sign.

The Al Smith, Gridiron, and Correspondent's dinners are holdovers from a different time, when an air of civility in person was more expected (despite politics pretty much always being a savage business). In the Washington of my childhood you could tell that Bob Michel or Tip O'Neill or whoever might excoriate each other in a speech, play golf the next day, and good-naturedly rib one another in a gala speech.

When contemporary politicians try to do the whole "put our differences aside, for charity" it comes off very forced and false.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14708099_10100558549125508_9055515646400454803_n.jpg?oh=46be0cc552ca64f6de090730ce817940&oe=58A48F8C

And also there's the thing where Trump isn't a politician and thinks that good-natured ribbing looks like a Nelson Muntz impression.

(Was really hoping he'd have his long-awaited 'Hank's Night in the Sun' moment last night, alas.)

Maybe if he hired pros to write his rambling...

I'm sure it's difficult to delegate when you're the smartest and funniest and richest and most powerful and healthiest and most woman-respecting and most tolerant and generally most unquestionably amazing man in the known universe.

At the end of this interview you get the feeling the damage this campaign has done to his name has begun to sink in:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-ends-interview-racist-sexist

https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/789276963441614848/video/1

the way he goes forward with Hillary isn't laughing as much as the rest of us! after the chorus of boos is Homer Simpsonesque

― esempiu (crüt), Thursday, October 20, 2016 9:15 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also trump asking if they're booing him or hillary is as close to a "are you saying boo or boo-urns?" moment I'll ever see from a presidential candidate in my lifetime.

The only noteworthy thing I've seen in that regard was a car plastered with incoherent ravings about Hillary that were printed out on 8.5 x 11 sheets and then taped all over the trunk and rear bumper

saw a car matching this description the day after the hurricane. I'd stopped by my local coffee shop to discover they were still without electricity and therefore closed, and it looked like about half a dozen dudes had taken advantage of the opportunity to conduct an impromptu white power klatch at one of the tables outside (one of the other guys at the table was wearing a confederate flag tee). sadly, i'm sure this was an entirely different car.

Giuliani's face was the best.

many xposts

i'm sure trump had help with that speech, I can't imagine him sitting him sitting down at a computer to write it. I'm sure it was him and some staffers spitballing, someone on staff is just covering his ass now.

At the end of this interview you get the feeling the damage this campaign has done to his name has begun to sink in:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-ends-interview-racist-sexist

in that interview he's still talking about GDP being at 1% - that he hasn't got the faintest fucking clue about anything this close to the election is actually kind of an achievement in itself

i don't know if some deaths at the polls are avoidable this year? and i wonder what it would take to hold trump directly responsible. i am genuinely hoping he and some of his people do jail time for sedition and/or reckless endangerment.

Conway walked out of an interview too.

Soon their press availabilities will go like this:

"Well, let's get started. Um.... Look! A baby wolf!"

runs away

checked my precinct's 2012 count and it was 1,104/343 for Obama/Romney

I feel like we can improve on that, get that R number down a little

I have no idea what statistic he could even think he's referring to with the 1% GDP thing. This year's growth is only 1% larger than last year's? idk

the only deaths at the polls I am scared of is the extremely old poll workers keeling over from the excitement

i don't know if some deaths at the polls are avoidable this year?

wtf dumb fantasy is this

There arent going to be any deaths at the polls guys

Xp

You know, the most telling thing in that interview is this word salad:

"Well I think they are doing themselves a tremendous disservice. We’re actually up substantially in Ohio. We have tremendous support from the people. And I think they’re doing themselves a tremendous disservice. We have a couple of cases where people that aren’t supporting me. They are losing and I’m winning states, and you’ve seen that, that’s all over the place," Trump said.

"So you know, I was very disappointed in Rob, but he is free to do whatever he has to do," he continued. "We’re doing fantastically well in Ohio and Rasmussen just came out – the poll – we’re three up nationwide, and IBJ just came out and we’re one up and that was the most accurate poll of the season last year. So I think we are doing really well."

there will be deaths, but 100% related to fireworks related injuries

lol someone should tell him how Rasmussen fared last time

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I am having some beautiful pictures taken in which I have a big smile on my face. I will look happy, content, like a very nice person, which in theory I am"

I feel pretty confident that Trump is dying at the polls

Entertaining:

https://www.wnyc.org/story/front-group-lawsuit-and-pi-how-trump-rigged-system-delay-gambling-new-york/

Meanwhile, and much more seriously, a hell of a read here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/10/21/what-its-like-to-experience-the-2016-election-as-both-a-conservative-and-a-sex-abuse-survivor/

On a lighter note, this guy is the academic version of Bill Mitchell

http://www.syracuse.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/10/helmut_norpoth_donald_trump_victory.html

what is this "Stakes is High"/NCGOP essay that someone mentioned upthread?

evol,

https://medium.com/@cd_hooks/stakes-is-high-6b45374e0157#.w3ime9bqh

tldr version is: It's all well and good for northern/urban liberals to pat themselves on the back for how civil and empathetic they're being about the fire in the NCGOP office.

Meanwhile the GOP in southern/rural environs - notably but not exclusively NC - has unleashed spittle-flecked gobs of racism, disenfranchisement, destruction of the common weal, and generally been complete assholes.

So the author is not so impressed by how fast Boston Democrats fundraised to rebuild an office. Author kinda wishes some of that same energy could be harnessed to help those who are genuinely downtrodden and suffering in red states. Hint: it ain't the people who set up a Republican campaign office.

you guys who are pooh-poohing the ideas of deaths at the polls are whistling in the dark imo.
i consider the consistent calls to "go to the polls and watch for voter fraud" and "the election is rigged, we have to be vigilant" to be fairly straightforward class/race baiting and more likely than not to lead to either a lone gun nut or a violent separatist group staking out a rural polling center and either confronting the police / being confronted by the police / confronting voters and leading to a shootout or number of shootouts.
the sole remaining trump option is to suppress voter turnout and nudging forward nationally televised fear or intimidation in communities (likely deep in a red state) that don't possess the resources or political will to combat this sort of small scale terrorism seems the intended result. i am honestly not convinced that an already beleaguered and paranoid small town constabulary won't shoot first.

i don't think people are gonna die en masse. but i'd be surprised if the election passes without eruptions of violence and potentially murderous violence.
I very much would like to be proven wrong!

that shit wouldn't happen in a small town, it'd happen in a denser community where some white dude thinks people are defrauding the government and shows up to start shit

i don't think people are gonna die en masse. but i'd be surprised if the election passes without eruptions of violence and potentially murderous violence.
I very much would like to be proven wrong!

― the notes the loon doesn't play (ulysses), Friday, October 21, 2016 10:59 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea we'll see. i was deeply scared about shit happening at the RNC this summer and it was pretty uneventful thankfully

look, there's no question that donald trump is stoking the fires of racial and political violence, and has been since the beginning of his campaign, but it's not "whistling in the dark" to point out the remarkably low level of political violence so far this year. what, you think all the nutjobs are waiting until election day to go out and start shooting people? obviously it's a possibility, but going out and creating a climate of fear and paranoia ourselves isn't exactly going to make things better.

the liberals who gave to the ncgop are even stupider than the backers of "star citizen", and that's saying something. just a classic stupid liberal trick. one supposes that if somebody burned down the klan headquarters, they'd donate to the klan to show their commitment to free and open expression.

There's the potential for violence, absolutely, but I think there's much more potential for swaggering douchegarglers talkin' big and makin' a big dumb spectacle of themselves. It'll be like the 'can you believe this?!' dude in line at the post office writ large.

WTF does monitoring for voter fraud even entail, anyway? Anyone swayed by Trump's verbiage is someone who's automatically demonstrated that they don't understand the basics of the electoral process. Why don't they send some people to monitor the coding of the software used in the booths while they're at it? Make sure the litho plates are properly set before the ballots are printed? Fucking idiots.

Wow, James Woods is actually an evil fucking cockfarmer now.

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/789391010757435394

"now"

The classic fatal flaw of liberalism is its earnest conviction that fascism and other violent ideologies can be accommodated into the liberal enlightenment discourse. The idea of anathematizing fascism makes liberals cringe and whine about "free speech" as much as campus social justice movements do.

xp i don't see how stating the obvious (that trump and his organization is intentionally and increasingly calling for violence at the polls) is "creating a climate of fear and paranoia"; i'm just saying 1) watch your ass and 2) these fuckers need to be held responsible for setting the fire this time.

again, i very much am not snidely crowing about this in the hopes of being a cassandra; I'd love to be wrong! But it looks a lot different on the ground in impoverished communities than it does from big cities and when I speak to folks back home there is a great deal of rage and gun clasping talk.

the responses to those tweets are disgusting too

xp fuck you james woods

silby otm there; it's all reality show bullshit until you meet one of these assholes at the polls with a shotgun

Even if things escalated to violence, I have trouble imagining anyone successfully convincing Trump to make a statement to his supporters to deescalate it. Like it just seems like it would very hard for him to say anything to deflate their enthusiasm since he's is so happy that so many people think of him as a hero. He'd say anything to perpetuate this fame and support he has it's like paradise for him. Also why I believe its so hard for him to say he'll concede- he doesn't want to be directly responsible for disappointing these people.

My training class to be a poll observer is this Wednesday, so I'll let you know what tips they give us for if any of these people show up. Aside from "Call the police" and "duck."

open carry + incitement to go to the polls and be captain save a trump is a recipe for disaster imo. I hope to be wrong but I can see a bunch of idiots like the guy in the boston globe article standing around a polling place with a gun yelling about how hes just trying to exercise free speech.

it's all reality show bullshit until you meet one of these assholes at the polls with a shotgun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZkjo3mNmsA

it isn't gonna happen, not in the way you're describing anyway - ie a politically motivated nutjob goes to a polling place and guns down non-white-skinned people. While one can never rule out gun violence in America, it's also totally unpredictable and doesn't generally follow this kind of specific political logic.

I can see a bunch of idiots like the guy in the boston globe article

I guarantee you this guy was immediately flagged/contacted by the secret service/FBI

and one of the reasons it isn't going to happen is the same reason it didn't happen at the RNC - everyone was already on the lookout for it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party_voter_intimidation_case

the only poll watchers I trust

hah we need them to show up to the polls armed so we can get open carry thrown out immediately. worked in california in the 70s..

I just watched the roasts today. Trump's things about HRC hating Catholics and being fired from the Watergate commission, these things seem to be circling around the right wing web despite being based on nothing. I doubt anyone who doesn't follow facebook macros has heard about either of these. I had thought the watergate joke was booed because it was such a stale reference.

xp the RNC was an isolated area surrounded by six thousand police; we're talking about the entire united states.
i genuinely wish i was as sure of the situation as you are shakey.

it's all reality show bullshit until you meet one of these assholes at the polls with a shotgun

feel like liberals are running with this bs just as much as Trump, probably even moreso in an effort to make him look extra scary. he's a horrible enough person imo running with doomsday scenarios should be unnecessary.

based on past experience with elections we're going to have a handful of 2nd amendment dudes excersizing their rights and cosplaying in their camo and that's about it.

so CROOKED she got fired from the WATERGATE COMMISSION

yeah idk that was a case about extreme abuse of power on the part of a republican president, not sure what you're getting at, man

did you guys see that the whitewater case prosecutor endorsed Clinton?

lol lil chris whatever it takes to help you sleep at night..

“I’m disappointed in Roger going to work for the Trump campaign,” Wallace told the Los Angeles Times in an interview published Thursday. “We have had to fight back for a lot of years against claims that we’re an arm of the Republican Party. We aren’t. Anybody who watches me on ‘Fox News Sunday’ knows that I’m not. I think it has given people who don’t like Fox News in the first place something to talk about. It allows people to say, ‘I told you so,’ when it’s not really true.”

Wallace told the LA Times that he has not spoken to Ailes since he was ousted from the network.

xp based on past experience with elections, we won't have a major party demagogue openly refusing to accept the election results before they are cast! the conversation has changed, it's not unrealistic to expect the outcomes to do the same.

i was hoping hillary would say something like "As crazy as it seems Donald and I used to get along great. In fact, I went to his wedding in 2005. Something tells me I won't be invited to his next one, though."

Anyway on a lighter note

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/tim-kaines-music-top-5-replacements-cornershop-and-more-w445695/the-replacements-w445699

Yeah Hillary's face at the top of that hating Catholic joke reflects everyone's reaction who isn't in the know on the bullshit Trump is regurgitating. "OH! what now? ok then?"

xposts

great photo

http://i.onionstatic.com/avclub/6075/31/16x9/1280.jpg

It's not unusual for a candidate to refuse to countenance losing an election ahead of the actual poll, in public anyway.

However, refusing to recognise the result is something that no-one's actually hinted at either.

Trump is so terrible, i mean everything he says about the election results screams "i'm a loser who's going to lose." he could have said something like, "I'm going to accept the results because on November 8th, we're going to go out there and win and make America great again!" but instead he says "i'll accept the results if i win", which is just whining.

North Carolina early voting report:

https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/789477974353518592

we're going to have a handful of 2nd amendment dudes excersizing their rights and cosplaying in their camo and that's about it.

otm

lol kissinger actively dying in that pic xp

it isn't gonna happen, not in the way you're describing anyway - ie a politically motivated nutjob goes to a polling place and guns down non-white-skinned people. While one can never rule out gun violence in America, it's also totally unpredictable and doesn't generally follow this kind of specific political logic.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/10/14/3-men-arrested-plot-bomb-kansas-apartment-complex-mosque-following-presidential-election

Three members of a southwest Kansas militia dubbed the "Crusaders” were arrested Friday on charges stemming from a plot to attack a housing complex that houses a mosque in Garden City, Kansas.
Curtis Allen, 49, Gavin Wright, 49, of Liberal, Kan., and Patrick Stein, 47, a resident of a nearby Dodge City, Kan., had stockpiled firearms and explosives. They planned to use four explosive-laden vehicles parked at the corners of the complex, which is home to a number of Somali immigrants, officials said during a news conference.
The group, which called itself the “Crusaders” had prepared a manifesto in which they said they hoped their attack, scheduled for the day after the General Election, would “wake people up,” Tom Beall, acting U.S. Attorney for the District of Kansas, said.

haha with these guys why is it always this response, it's always got to be the LEAST RACIST PERSON ON EARTH

Marshall still asked Trump to respond, prompting the Republican nominee to turn back around and say, "I am the least racist person you’ve ever met." Trump then walked away from the camera.

out of 8 billion ppl def I know that I am the least racist!

xp

According to the complaint, Stein said:
"I'm angry that our politicians are no good, lying, caniving, crooked, corrupt, treasonist, assholes that should be imprisoned at the least...I'm angry we allow one of the most corrupt, deceitful, lying, caniving, treasonist, POS (Hillary Clinton) on the planet to run for president while under investigation by the FBI...I'm angry that elections are rigged by the elitist (FYI: YOUR VOTE DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE)”

lol did you guys see the melania vs. people magazine document? the only things that were objected to that they wanted retracted were related to a brief mention at the end where the writer spoke to melania. absolutely no objections about the passages about her husband's behavior

there have been a couple things like this, I really think she wants her name kept out of the really imprudent bits and realizes she's going to have to make a run for it sooner rather than later

it seems like the campaign is trying to spin it as Trump refusing to pre-emptively give up his right to contest results in court - which is not actually what he was asked, but this sort of dissembling is par for the course with this campaign. Maybe he just misunderstood the question because he is legitimately that stupid, i.e., too stupid to understand that contesting results in courts *is part of the electoral process* and that the final result that gets certified, whether that entails any legal wrangling or not, is what the question was actually about. (Of course in the unlikely event a case went to the Supreme Court and he lost Trump would probably claim it was unfair etc. - he might have a point given Ginsberg's comments, unfortunately)

xp

if melania files for divorce on november 7 i might die laughing

haha with these guys why is it always this response, it's always got to be the LEAST RACIST PERSON ON EARTH

Marshall still asked Trump to respond, prompting the Republican nominee to turn back around and say, "I am the least racist person you’ve ever met." Trump then walked away from the camera.

out of 8 billion ppl def I know that I am the least racist!

― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, October 21, 2016 11:38 AM (fifty-eight seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And with a straight face he would say Hillary is THE MOST RACIST PERSON YOU'VE EVER MET.

not a polling place, ulysses. also dudes were caught, which sort of invalidates your point a bit.

if you're worried about white supremacists/militia violence I hate to say it but that threat is a constant, as opposed to an aberration, in America.

xp

And the greatest evidence yet Bill Mitchell is running his own con:

https://twitter.com/mitchelleviii/status/789489256209285121

You just wait and see. You will regret your words when im warming Trumps seats before he sits in them.

i know ripping on his wife was nagl but i thought trump's best joke was the one about michelle/melania

ZS with a great one here:

http://www.newsweek.com/ridiculous-stories-behind-donald-trumps-film-and-tv-cameos-511713

Personally I think the highest chance for things getting out of hand is rallying around Trump refusing to concede, but he would have to handle it in the worst possible way for it to have the highest probability of shitfanning.

And with a straight face he would say Hillary is THE MOST RACIST PERSON YOU'VE EVER MET.

― Evan, Friday, October 21, 2016 10:41 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

B-b-but I heard that nasty woman has so much hate in her heart! He wouldn't say it if it wasn't true.

xpost ned i think that's a parody acct

xp shakey, suggesting that my point is invalid because it's "not a polling place" tells you're more interested in the rhetoric than the actual danger. these are politically motivated racists tying a murderous action to the election; I doubt they are alone.

again, because i don't want to get heated over this shit on the internet of all places: 1) watch your ass, 2) if the shit hits the fan and deaths do occur, i hope we can find a way to make trump and his organization pay for their fair share... and not just financially but with time in prison.

ned i think that's a parody acct

Why so it is. Truly he has ascended to the highest level of celebrity.

Anyway, it's not that the potentially violent have been waiting for the polls, it's that the polls represent the time when the potentially violent are brought in close contact with the people they hate. There are always sparks, but the mixture of gun-ownership, conspiracy theory and hate that trump has created means the chance of those sparks causing a conflagration is higher than before. Some Trump supporter challenged someone to prove their eligibility, they refuse, officials get involved (confirming the conspiracy) and stuff will go wrong. I hope it doesn't, and not being an American all I can do is hope/pray that it doesn't. But I would be surprised if the night passes without violence (or, more violence than is usual).

Charles Pierce on that fucking Al Smith dinner:

The Trump campaign these days has all the inherent charm and optimism of a bankruptcy clearance sale. Off the media room at the debate on Wednesday night, the Trump children were romanced in the half-light by Sean Hannity while, over behind a partition, Sarah Palin entertained film crews of foreign lands. Les Americains, zey are so, how you say, tres amusantes. She stuck up for Trump's announced plan to monkeywrench the election results. "Why wouldn't-cha?" was clearly audible over the cacophony of questions asked in broken English and answered in obliterated English.

Anyway on a lighter note

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/tim-kaines-music-top-5-replacements-cornershop-and-more-w445695/the-replacements-w445699

Tim Kaine revealed to be a former ILXor circa 2004

those kaine picks (dave matthews aside) are fairly endearing

The Cornershop one is the real surprise!

not being an American all I can do is hope/pray that it doesn't. But I would be surprised if the night passes without violence (or, more violence than is usual)

why would you be surprised? if you actually lived in America and spent any time in small towns i don't think you would feel the same way. the media has a vested interest in hyping shit up, this "election rigged = post-election violence???" is the latest example and imo as irresponsible as anything Trump says.

idk man you've seemed weirdly paranoid about this election the entire campaign tbh

"watch your ass" lol do you really think there's dangerous armed Trump supporters in the Mission in SF

xp

i hope we can find a way to make trump and his organization pay for their fair share... and not just financially but with time in prison.

and this... I mean, jeez calm down. For one thing there's no way Trump campaign would be liable unless they gave *specific instructions* about a violent act and lol do you really think *that's* going to happen?! wtf

the media will keep us in suspense

those kaine picks (dave matthews aside) are fairly endearing

Given the Virginia connection I will call it smart politics.

^^^ OTM

Some Trump supporter challenged someone to prove their eligibility, they refuse,

this is against the law, there will be a ton of witnesses/poll workers/crowds - this seems really unlikely to me

there's a secret word that Trump is gonna say on Election day and it will trigger his supporters to attack. we have two weeks to find out the word

Also, consent decree:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/why-the-rnc-desperately-needs-to-not-getting-dragged-into-trump-s-poll-watcher-talk

tim kaine reminds me of a bunch of upbeat liberal white dudes from VA and NC in their 40s and 50s that i've known over the years, it is a type, going to a bluegrass show and drinking a craft beer is their way of letting loose a little

the best thing about refusing to concede is that the votes get counted regardless

I would guess someone on Clinton's team is currently figuring out what time they're going to give a victory speech if Trump refuses to concede. Midnight?

Separately, some interesting bits:

Fox Business reported that before Wednesday's debate, Adelson had sent an email to Trump, telling him to stop attacking fellow Republicans like House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI), and to spend more time focusing on issues than complaining about media coverage. Though Trump has since quieted somewhat about his fellow Republicans, he continues to blame the national media for "rigging" the election.

One anonymous Adelson associate told Fox Business that Adelson had told him “Trump doesn’t listen to anyone—not even his family or Steve Bannon.” That associated added that Adelson told him he liked the Republican nominee “less and less.”

if you actually lived in America and spent any time in small towns i don't think you would feel the same way.

idk man you've seemed weirdly paranoid about this election the entire campaign tbh

For one thing there's no way Trump campaign would be liable unless they gave *specific instructions* about a violent act and lol do you really think *that's* going to happen?! wtf

I would guess someone on Clinton's team is currently figuring out what time they're going to give a victory speech if Trump refuses to concede. Midnight?

― mh 😏, Friday, October 21, 2016 1

7:30 p.m.

According to the complaint, Stein said:
"I'm angry that our politicians are no good, lying, caniving, crooked, corrupt, treasonist, assholes that should be imprisoned at the least...I'm angry we allow one of the most corrupt, deceitful, lying, caniving, treasonist, POS (Hillary Clinton) on the planet to run for president while under investigation by the FBI...I'm angry that elections are rigged by the elitist (FYI: YOUR VOTE DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE)”

wow jill stein not fucking around

did Stein actually mime "parentheses" around Hillary Clinton

Ned is right.

I will forgive Kaine for namechecking the (bad and hated) DMB. He's a Virginian of more or less my generation. Many of us thought "Satellite" was a decent jam in 1993, when Dave and the guys played the Flood Zone every Wednesday. The air was warm and the beer was not great, but the dizzyingly attractive art school girls with the chunky glasses all got up to dance. They were wearing combat boots under their long cotton skirts. You had to be there, it was a moment and at that time and in that place it made sense.

I would guess someone on Clinton's team is currently figuring out what time they're going to give a victory speech if Trump refuses to concede. Midnight?

― mh 😏, Friday, October 21, 2016 1

7:30 p.m.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, October 21, 2016 9:03 AM

Last assumption I heard is that it could essentially be over by 6 pm PDT. Which I'd be fine with.

Ned is right.

I will forgive Kaine for namechecking the (bad and hated) DMB. He's a Virginian of more or less my generation. Many of us thought "Satellite" was a decent jam in 1993, when Dave and the guys played the Flood Zone every Wednesday. The air was warm and the beer was not great, but the dizzyingly attractive art school girls with the chunky glasses all got up to dance. They were wearing combat boots under their long cotton skirts. You had to be there, it was a moment and at that time and in that place it made sense.

You know, you really just did capture an era there.

indeed!

"caniving" <--- please tell me that this is actually what the complaint said

Gotta love trolling:

https://twitter.com/etuckerAP/status/789494448786923520

jill stein is such a dipshit

Last assumption I heard is that it could essentially be over by 6 pm PDT. Which I'd be fine with.

Yeah! lol - do we need to wait with bated breath for Oregon, Washington, and California's returns?

Also, shit, marcos has me pegged

Also I get what Ulysses is saying about wanting to find some way for Trompe and yr Trompazoids to be punished, if the worst should happen.

I dunno. In the law as it stands, I think incitement is very difficult to prove as a criminal matter but it may be interesting to pursue civil cases. As a reflexive optimist I will continue to hope neither is necessary. My pessimist side wonders whether that would just open a can of worms where Clinton is sued for the NC firebombing, and has to spend time and energy on that instead of stuff that could actually help the nation.

Wallace:

"We have had to fight back for a lot of years against claims that we’re an arm of the Republican Party. We aren’t."

Now you know how NBC feels, ya douchenozzle.

would love to see some examples of my paranoia quoted?

brb gonna scroll through 9,000 posts on 10 different threads

youtube link would not stand up as incitement in court

xp

2008 was a model year when it came to concession speeches. McCain probably wanted to get home and go to bed.

We have had to fight back for a lot of years against claims that we’re an arm of the Republican Party. We aren’t."

a lawyerly response. Conservatives see themselves as conservatives first, not Republicans.

(please note that the stein in question from that quote upthread is NOT jill stein but patrick stein, the kansan 'crusader' terrorist who was plotting to kill a bunch of somali immigrants the day after the election)

I hope Sarah Palin again insists on delivering a concession speech in November.

Can she rap it again? Please?

do we need to wait with bated breath for Oregon, Washington, and California's returns?

We need to find out California elects another Democratic senator oh wait.

(Slew of interesting state and city propositions I am definitely waiting on here, but that's obviously just of interest to us. Sent my ballot in Monday.)

Washington is an all vote-by-mail state, and I think Oregon is too, results aren't certified for days and the "late liberal" effect means many races shift precipitously between the first drop of results on Tuesday night and the days that follow.

In '08 and '12 the election was called for Obama immediately upon polls closing in California and I see no reason that wouldn't be the case this year.

We'd need something like this to call the election before California polls close:

http://www.270towin.com

ah fuck, my permalink!

http://www.270towin.com/maps/mNrNj

Betty Ford delivered Jerry's concession speech for him, maybe they could get Melania to deliver Trump's

http://www.history.com/speeches/betty-delivers-president-fords-concession

the election ended at 10 p.m. EST once Ohio's results are announced. This year I see Ohio going red and Trump losing the election – the first Republican to whom this has ever happened.

xp particularly if she can work in the fact that she's divorcing him

ehh the whole "called" thing is kind of bullshit because even on the years when it's pretty certain, some networks do their final presidential prediction and then still change their state predictions after the fact, on air

2000 was the worst offender in this, obviously, but 2004 was such a clusterfuck that I went to bed not know the results

xxxpost It'd be like the neighborhood bully's mom showing up to apologize for her son's behavior.

Watching these fuckstains anchor themselves to a sinking ship will never not be funny:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/21/politics/gop-congressman-nasty-woman/index.html

yeah i mean for those of us who weren't that hip in high school or from podunk areas, "alternative" was could contain everything, dave matthews band, cypress hill, butthole surfers, pj harvey, blues traveller, mike watt with eddie vedder singing for him, bad religion, my life with thrill kill kult, paula cole, alice in chains

Can she rap it again? Please?

Other MCs betta move out the way
The P-A-L-I-N is here to stay
Check out my badness, I'm straight outta Wasilla
Hillary's a beeyotch and Obamacare's a killa
We may be concedin' but tomorrow you'll be needin'
First aid on yo asses cuz it's a battle of the classes
It's all about taxation, they're impov'rishin the nation
Takin all the guns and excessive regulation
Illegals, they be stealin and they're dealin and they're killin
I'f I'd been the veep, I'd be drillin' like a villain
Wearin chunky glasses I'd be mad snowmobilin'

um u missed an opportunity to get drillin' in there

real talk: the paula cole / alice in chains connection is drastically underreported

oh wait nm

or the Paula Cole-Peter Gabriel connection!

jill stein is such a dipshit

― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, October 21, 2016 12:06 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it was not actually jill stein who said that thing quoted above

election-fixin'
race-mixin'
trade deal missin'
keep on bitchin'
'bout sexism

jill stein is such a dipshit
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, October 21, 2016 12:06 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it was not actually jill stein who said that thing quoted above

― esempiu (crüt), Friday, October 21, 2016 11:26 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes that wasn't clarified when i posted & i dunno why i was supposed to assume it was some dude from kansas i've never heard of!

would love to see some examples of my paranoia quoted?

brb gonna scroll through 9,000 posts on 10 different threads

youtube link would not stand up as incitement in court

xp

― Οὖτις, Friday, October 21, 2016 12:08 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

shakey is otm

forks, love you bud but take a nap or an ativan or something

matt, you missed the ruckus upthread; sorry to leave caltrops for you to reasonably trip on

xp i think i may have found out about paula cole via peter gabriel tbh... am i making that up?
https://vimeo.com/89802801

kev, for the third time, i very much would like to be wrong! also, no ativan but i am _still_ waiting for my medical marijuana card. Thanks Obama

We'd need something like this to call the election before California polls close:

http://www.270towin.com

― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Friday, October 21, 2016 12:18 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ah fuck, my permalink!

http://www.270towin.com/maps/mNrNj

― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Friday, October 21, 2016 12:18 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

How are the polls in Hawaii going to close before the polls in California?

forks no worries this thread is moving really fast rn

Hawaii is part of Kenya, why would they be voting in a US election

New HRC ad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCqFCCgU1xk

um as seen in this picture hawaii is obviously a little south and west of texas

Every time I click on this thread I get a "the aristocrats!" subliminal message in the millisecond before it jumps to the bottom of the page.

Folks you should really check that ad out.

that ad is devastating

seriously

jeez that ad

btw, since this was probably half the reason they went w/Kaine looks like he's done his job

Hillary Clinton and her Republican opponent are in a statistical dead heat in Georgia, according to a new Atlanta Journal-Constitution poll, and she has a double-digit lead in battleground Virginia, according to Christopher Newport University.

whoa that ad

checked that ad out, gross as fuck. she voted to send that kid off to die.

She really does have so much hate in her heart! Sad!

Adam, as the son of a longtime Navy officer, someone who made the decision to apply for the Academy in 1957 or so as the Cold War and the threat of nuclear devastation was becoming all too real in terms of a mindset, and who applied knowing that no matter who the president was or who voted for what, orders would be given and would have to be obeyed, I will ask you -- do you know anyone who ever served, and what it means when you make that decision to serve?

I'll wait.

checked that ad out, gross as fuck. she voted to send that kid off to die.

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, October 21, 2016 11:51 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

maybe harvard law school graduate khzir khan is using his connection to the campaign to defeat what he views as an existential threat to muslims in america? or is it always puppetmaster HRC fooling these rubes into doing her bidding?

where is the oppo bomb? I want oppo bomb. c'mon.

thank you for that ned!!

Adam, what's gross as fuck is having that response to a man talking about the death of his son. So he doesn't blame who you blame for what happened, well you need to shut your entitled ass up.

Separately -- really, dude?

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/789504509168984064

BREAKING: Donald Trump's lawyer asks judge to exclude his statements made during presidential campaign in trial over Trump University

xpost
aight chill out

Ned you don't need to wait, i have several family members that served and currently serve, save your "entitled" platitudes for someone else

where is the oppo bomb? I want oppo bomb. c'mon.

― akm, Friday, October 21, 2016 12:57 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes please

Ned, sorry that entitled comment was meant for Fred

this whole discussion of violence at the polls feels like it's focused just slightly to one side of the problem. i'm not entirely expecting camo-wearing, open-carrying, testosterone-saturated nuts to kill people at the polls (or start shit with the cops and get themselves killed) - - - i'm expecting them to be camo-wearing, open-carrying, testosteorne-saturated nuts. that by itself is a really serious problem! these kinds of characters hanging around the polls, making a big show of themselves, getting their picture taken, getting up in people's faces, murmuring insults and pseudo-threats: i can picture all of this happening, easily, in a LOT of places. it's intimidation, it's threatening, it verges quickly into assault. all of that is violent and all of that will be directed at the most vulnerable people there. remember the video of the guy screaming at the bicyclist in socal a while back? it's going to be a whole bunch of that guy only in "camo cosplay," maybe with a gun, shouting in the faces of minority voters, elderly folks with clinton bumper stickers, people perceived as deviants, whatever. we don't need little fantasies of shootouts to be seriously disturbed by what the trump campaign has obviously been encouraging for ages now.

jill stein is such a dipshit
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, October 21, 2016 12:06 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it was not actually jill stein who said that thing quoted above

― esempiu (crüt), Friday, October 21, 2016 11:26 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Second post does not make first post untrue.

Adam, as the son of a longtime Navy officer, someone who made the decision to apply for the Academy in 1957 or so as the Cold War and the threat of nuclear devastation was becoming all too real in terms of a mindset, and who applied knowing that no matter who the president was or who voted for what, orders would be given and would have to be obeyed, I will ask you -- do you know anyone who ever served, and what it means when you make that decision to serve?
I'll wait.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 21 October 2016 16:55 (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is the transcript of Ned's sitemod comeback ad btw

lol yes my opinion stands

Fuck you dude xp

thread is moving too fast, i can't tell who is telling who to go fuck themselves

Lol yeah

while there's definitely some validity to adam's objections, the ad is really effective (and affecting)

Ned you don't need to wait, i have several family members that served and currently serve,

*nods* Then I'll say I'm just a little surprised at your approach here, and will leave it at that.

i think as americans it's time for us to come together as a nation and all fuck ourselves

frederik sorry yr not invited to the fuckfest of liberty

i'm expecting them to be camo-wearing, open-carrying, testosteorne-saturated nuts. that by itself is a really serious problem! these kinds of characters hanging around the polls, making a big show of themselves, getting their picture taken, getting up in people's faces, murmuring insults and pseudo-threats: i can picture all of this happening, easily, in a LOT of places. it's intimidation, it's threatening, it verges quickly into assault. all of that is violent and all of that will be directed at the most vulnerable people there. remember the video of the guy screaming at the bicyclist in socal a while back? it's going to be a whole bunch of that guy only in "camo cosplay," maybe with a gun, shouting in the faces of minority voters, elderly folks with clinton bumper stickers, people perceived as deviants, whatever. we don't need little fantasies of shootouts to be seriously disturbed by what the trump campaign has obviously been encouraging for ages now.

I agree w all this

frederik sorry yr not invited to the fuckfest of liberty

where were you during PussyGrab'16

sh@key i respect your opinion but i'm an internationalist and i think that fred has just as much right to go fuck himself as the rest of us do

history will remember me as victim of carne asada's fuck you. rigged. sad.

I think intervening in Iraq was wrong but reducing the troops who went there to "fought in unjust conflict" totems is gross and you can acknowledge it was the wrong thing to do while respecting the family of a soldier who was killed.

everybody go fuck yourself by your bootstraps

rowr

I'm not very flexible

Sopan Deb ‏@SopanDeb 1h1 hour ago
It's been 86 days since Trump last held a presser. He took Qs from limited group 47 days ago. Clinton has taken Qs 11 times in last 2 months

^^^surprised this doesn't get brought up more often. trump has been hiding from the press for three months

take it to the gay thread, boys

especially since wasn't that one of trump's talking points for awhile, "where's hillary, hiding from the press again i guess!"

he doesn't hide from the press, he just puts them in a little corral during his appearances that they sometimes have to flee in terror

I posted the Nancy French story above re: her abuse and her anger and disappointment at the charges against Trump being brushed off by the religious right. Her husband David's own piece today is, if anything, even worse to consider:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441319/donald-trump-alt-right-internet-abuse-never-trump-movement

trump's most serious hangup/instinct is surely accusing whoever opposes him with possessing his own vices. no press conferences, unhealthy, needs to be drug-tested, lies all the time, makes crooked deals, bad judgment, bad temperament. i'm waiting for him to start shouting about how she has the worst toupee he's ever see, i mean, bad. it's so bad and it's so obvious and what is she trying to hide? and that color!

he doesn't hide from the press, he just puts them in a little corral during his appearances that they sometimes have to flee in terror

― mh

that's what he keeps saying, but lately him and his surrogates have been doing a lot more fleeing.

How are the polls in Hawaii going to close before the polls in California?

― ¶ (DJP), Friday, October 21, 2016 9:39 AM (thirty-nine minutes ago)

whoops

xp doc, i'm with you all the way but "little fantasies of shootouts" suggests the idea that the idea of ideologically-motivated armed men shooting multiple innocents on american soil is some far fetched fan fiction when it's literally a daily occurrence. more intelligent restrictions on gun purchases and ownership is absolutely the largest part of the problem there but denying some of the blame to an explicitly violent racist/sexist/classist figurehead who is irresponsibly whipping people into a frenzy seems willfully blind to me and i'm a bit surprised that i'm getting the "lie down, you crazy" treatment. He's taking himself seriously and his followers are taking themselves seriously; I'm taking them seriously too.

How are the polls in Hawaii going to close before the polls in California?

― ¶ (DJP), Friday, October 21, 2016 9:39 AM (thirty-nine minutes ago)

whoops

― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), F

See? They're rigged. RIGGED.

those are all fair points... ugh i dunno. it's a really really ugly situation.

it is not a daily occurrence

we're not even close to late 60s levels of violence

(in terms of politically-motivated shootings/murders)

how many mass shootings do you think have occurred this year shakey?
i think you're confusing my points a bit.

BREAKING: Donald Trump's lawyer asks judge to exclude his statements made during presidential campaign in trial over Trump University

lol I used to work for this dickhead and my poor old supervisor is working on this case right now

xp though i don't have as sense of how slanted the reporting is, this site lists over 300 for the year
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Rubbish report, they counted cap and finger gun deaths

trump's most serious hangup/instinct is surely accusing whoever opposes him with possessing his own vices. no press conferences, unhealthy, needs to be drug-tested, lies all the time, makes crooked deals, bad judgment, bad temperament. i'm waiting for him to start shouting about how she has the worst toupee he's ever see, i mean, bad. it's so bad and it's so obvious and what is she trying to hide? and that color!

― DOCTOR CAISNO, BYCREATIVELABBUS (Doctor Casino), Friday, October 21, 2016 12:19 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

She makes all this money, so much money from her speeches. But where is this money? You'd think she'd be a millionaire by now but I've heard, I don't know if I believe it but I've heard that her savings account, get this, I hear it's only five figures. Low five figures. So sad. And her penis! Have you seen her penis? Neither have I. Because it's a micropenis, folks. So tiny. So tiny. Pee just runs down her leg while she's standing in front of her gold toilet, believe me.

Republicans are all about limiting your right to fuck yourself, but they have no problem doing the fucking. When Clinton arrives, we can all confidently resume fucking ourselves once again with no fear of repercussion. Either way, we're probably all fucked already.

this guy fucks

that is the weirdest part, Trump does not act at all like a guy who fucks

I wonder if he really walks around knowing that the wrong brother died.

I mean, his siblings include a couple who did well in banking, a well-regarded federal judge, and an older brother who was reportedly very likeable and probably better looking. Meanwhile Donald's big triumph is putting his name on things in really big letters while people around him apologize for it.

Xpost A titotaler

ideologically-motivated armed men shooting multiple innocents on american soil is some far fetched fan fiction when it's literally a daily occurrence

this is literally not accurate, sorry.

the "ideologically motivated" part is key there

because we are discussing political action here (even to the point of holding political figures liable) - complicated as it may be, the political/ideological has to be separated from the far common/more standard emotionally + psychologically disturbed or criminally motivated violence for your point to have any weight in terms of blaming Trump.

seriously the Clinton social media interns don't get paid enough

https://i.imgur.com/VndRHmB.jpg

if you don't see trump as an emotionally and psychologically disturbed, politically AND criminally motivated figure with many of his followers in lockstep i dunno what to tell you. we're not gonna agree on this apparently.

i find it amusing how many people love imitating Trump's style of speaking/cadence. it's fun! also i've seen so many appropriations on MAGA throughout the year - like that place Sweetgreen, they've been handing out stickers that say "Make America Healthy Again" for months. Trump is basically a Dr. Seuss villain, so many of his mannerisms & catchphrases are infectious whether or not you like him.

if you don't see trump as an emotionally and psychologically disturbed, politically AND criminally motivated figure with many of his followers in lockstep i dunno what to tell you. we're not gonna agree on this apparently.

Trump is all those things! But the constant drumbeat of gun violence in this country is separable from Trump, it is simply not accurate to say that every mass shooting incident is politically or ideologically motivated. That just isn't true.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

most of these look like gang-related activity tbh

I think Shakey's argument is that we don't have ideologically-motivated shootings as a daily occurrence, which, while true, isn't particularly comforting to the people getting shot.

drawing a causal link - much less a legally prosecutable link - is incredibly difficult. I don't think there's a single mass shooting incident to-date that you could tie to Trump.

xp

xp. shakey has no time for them!

Upper Miss Shakedown

btw, since this was probably half the reason they went w/Kaine looks like he's done his job... Hillary Clinton and her Republican opponent are in a statistical dead heat in Georgia, according to a new Atlanta Journal-Constitution poll, and she has a double-digit lead in battleground Virginia

Virginia was already safely blue, though (NoVa = government workers = suckers at the Federal teat = libdems). Maybe they didn't know that yet in June.

There is an alternative universe in which the Clinton campaign chooses a running mate from Georgia, but I'm blanking on who. Jimmy Carter is ineligible. Michael Stipe? Lawrence Fishburne?

is jimmy really ineligible? he only served one term.

Jeff Mangum

Luke Cage

Kandi Burruss

Fred Schneider

I think Shakey's argument is that we don't have ideologically-motivated shootings as a daily occurrence, which, while true, isn't particularly comforting to the people getting shot.

right. fwiw I would think my feelings on gun violence and the 2nd Amendment are p well established around here.

xp

xpost Unless all of the B-52s could run as a collective veep candidate.

seriously the Clinton social media interns don't get paid enough

https://i.imgur.com/VndRHmB.jpg

niiiice

Thought it was pretty clear that we were specifically discussing TRUMP INCITING VIOLENCE which, to-date has not been a thing in terms of people getting shot. People have been assaulted at his rallies, and that is terrible and Trump is a horrible person and p much a fascist for both promoting it and taking advantage of it, but people are not taking up arms at Trump's direction and shooting their political opponents. That is not happening. And what's more, to be even more specific to the original point, it is not going to happen at polling places on election day. The Kansas City thing is the lone instance of that even coming close, and those guys were caught and the plot was disrupted - precisely because everyone is on edge about this possibility, esp the authorities/law enforcement.

xp

still, fingers crossed!

I do feel it's relevant to bear in mind that we have had many periods in this country where political figures actually *did* incite their followers to commit violence and it *did* happen, on the biggest scale imaginable (ie war) so let's maintain some perspective here.

but yes fingers crossed we are not at a point similar to 1856 or 1886 or 1968. It doesn't seem even close to me.

If there's any violence at the polls next month, it will be performed by democrats wearing "I AM A REPUBLICAN AND I HATE LIBERALS" shirts, and you can be sure that James O'Keefe will be there to capture it all for his next film.

It's important to keep in mind that a large number of Trump's supporters are probably Twitter tough guys. It's real easy to talk shit with your fingers, but most people are probably disinclined to back up their anonymous shit talk with action. And I'll mash any one of you who disagrees, see?

lol

how fast could trump ko this chickenshit hillbilly?

we have the best pavement!

shakey you've got a lot of what i consider to be ungrounded absolutist faith at play here. i have no idea why you consider the KC thing to be a once-and-only thing; may i ask if you were even aware of it prior to it being discussed here? why would you assume faith in the powers that be just now? why would you consider doubting the intentions of a demagogue who is being frank in his hatred and suggestions of how that hatred should be directed? why is suggesting that these are dangerous times equivalent to inciting fear and why is blaming the lead instigator of this violent energy inappropriate?

i am arguing on the internet and i can't remember anytime that's ever been a good idea so i'm gonna stop i think.

I'm more concerned about violence by lone disturbed individuals in the aftermath, rather than at polling places. They're immersed in an echo chamber that tells them democracy has been corrupted, their rights have been infringed, and the elected aren't facing justice for crimes that deserve jail. Not a few are unstable, have little to lose, and would like their lives to have historical significance.

lone disturbed individuals

https://i.redditmedia.com/pg1-EOIxIGiv0JxS-WdrLByxIirRf08cpXppfJWkHA8.jpg?w=320&s=844925b2278d76128cb4365edd0e2d8b

I'm more concerned about violence by lone disturbed individuals

welcome to America!

doing revolution stuff

It seems to me the actual legacy of this campaign is a greater likelihood of someone shooting their neighbor in the face over some otherwise minor dispute because they've now been cast as an enemy to America rather than any type of organized/coordinated/even off-the-cuff attack on polling places on election day.

"if an insane person with an assault rifle and german shephard pulled up to you in a white van would you get in?"

haha omg how's life

itt replace "revolution" with "butt"

Terry Tate comes out of retirement

http://youtu.be/djdzZ76YIQM?t=48s

i have no idea why you consider the KC thing to be a once-and-only thing

because so far it is the only thing!

why would you consider doubting the intentions of a demagogue who is being frank in his hatred and suggestions of how that hatred should be directed?

he has not been frank at all! Like most narcissistic demagogues he's been careful to frame his hatred and suggestions not as categorical "YOU! MY FOLLOWERS! KILL THE UNBELIEVERS!" statements, but in much slipperier and vague terms. I don't think he actually wants armed insurrection - why? because it wouldn't actually benefit him. He knows this. He's just a jerk and an egomaniac who doesn't care about the collateral damage his language may cause.

why is suggesting that these are dangerous times equivalent to inciting fear and why is blaming the lead instigator of this violent energy inappropriate?

blame him all you want, once something that's related to him actually happens! Don't expect it to hold up in court though.

xxp

Amazing
xp

It seems to me the actual legacy of this campaign is a greater likelihood of someone shooting their neighbor in the face over some otherwise minor dispute because they've now been cast as an enemy to America rather than any type of organized/coordinated/even off-the-cuff attack on polling places on election day.

^^^^

About that van thing: for me, it would depend on whether the guy was saying it or the dog.

If a dog said that to me I would seriously consider getting in.

I'm more worried about after the results of the election are declared.

Whether or not they're inclined toward violent actions, it does seem to me like most steadfast Trumpites probably don't possess the keenest sense of organization or strategy. Planning is for beta cucks, I would assume.

he has not been frank at all!

djp: and that's true too! if i'm coming off as "JUST YOU WATCH THEY'RE GONNA SHOOT UP THE POLLS" here, that's not so much my intention. But when i call home to my family in tennessee, they tell me they're doing early voting because they don't want to be out on election night... too many drunk angry rednecks likely to be knocking around looking to vent some USA USA USA USA

If a guy in a white van with a gun and a dog showed up and said get in, we're doing Prince and the Revolution stuff, would you get in?

Maybe.

especially if the dog said it like, "re're roing revorution ruff"

xxp

Rurple Rain, Rurple Rain ...

I was going to say, it looks like "solving mysteries" is way behind them

they're the Earth-2 mystery machine gang who hides the bodies

“Everybody knows when you go for the grope, Terry gonna say nope! That ain’t new, son!!”

never got it off with that revolution stuff

depends on amount of candy.

"just fix the fucking server like we asked you to, jimmy"

aren't the Revolution touring? I'm not interested.

seriously he starts talking about overthrowing the government every time we tell him he can't vape in the server room

Grover?

when will the real issue of this election be addressed?

#vape

grover is such a dipshit but the new vape-obsessed post-burning man norquist is way way more preferable imo

I expect a Vape Party to have formed by the 2024 election at the latest.

its kinda hysterical tbh xp

When will one of the candidates address all of the Tamagotchis that keep dying?

Your Tamagotchi's life was short like leprechauns
As I crush so-called Willys, Seans and rapist Dons

it would be pretty funny to be at a rave and have a friend point toward a group of olds at the front and mouth "grover norquist".

feel bad for david french and his family, but it would have been worth acknowledging that this sort of thing happens to people who are not anti-trump conservatives as well

and David French's other NRO posts are the inchoate ramblings of a poisoned mind.

Yeah French is a classic example of somebody caught up in his own unfortunate approach who has now been utterly caught off-guard. You can see it in a lot of movement conservative types this year -- what would have normally been a standard 'let's trash Hillary and stupid Dems' election year of activity has turned into a two-front war, and the really horrible people after them are supporting their side's general candidate.

man, I can't believe Grover is 60 years old. he has the enlightened perspective of a libertarian-type who is much younger.

i just walked by the tv in the lobby at work and it was on CNN and Biden was on there and the chyron said “Biden: I’d like to take Trump out behind the gym”

His twitter av looks like he's 17 xps

Yeah French is a classic example of somebody caught up in his own unfortunate approach who has now been utterly caught off-guard. You can see it in a lot of movement conservative types this year -- what would have normally been a standard 'let's trash Hillary and stupid Dems' election year of activity has turned into a two-front war, and the really horrible people after them are supporting their side's general candidate.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, October 21, 2016 2:38 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this was probably...jeez...four threads ago but some ilxor posted something to the effect that all these idiots are waking up this year and realizing none of their constituents gave a fuck about limited government or supply side economics or conservative values and really just responded to the white bitterness and dog whistles, like the publisher of penthouse who thought people read it for the articles all these years.

It's hard to believe that the people peddling the limited government line actually, sincerely believed their constituents really cared about it. "Know what you guys would really like? Having less rights, benefits, and say in your own society." That's what the dog whistles were for. These people just lost control.

if there's no more Trump oppo dumps coming I would settle for a leak of Ryan or McConnell bitching about Trump in a private meeting or something

An example of David's kind of French kissing: www.nationalreview.com/article/441181/hillary-clinton-american-constitution-checks-balances

i fully expect rick wilson to keep teasing his big oppo dump a year from now

some ilxor posted something to the effect that all these idiots are waking up this year and realizing none of their constituents gave a fuck about limited government or supply side economics or conservative values and really just responded to the white bitterness and dog whistles

Pretty much. There's been some honest shock and surprise -- which I admit I find pretty laughable -- but also a lot of grumbling 'well, figures,' which makes more sense.

I shared this amusement with Alfred earlier today. Pity the author, won't you?

http://freebeacon.com/columns/crisis-conservative-intellectual/

Actually, don't pity this fucker at all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgFfdbhtEzA

like the publisher of penthouse who thought people read it for the articles all these years.

thankfully Bob had no such illusions and helped bring us Omni magazine. thanks, Bob

grover is such a dipshit but the new vape-obsessed post-burning man norquist is way way more preferable imo

― marcos, Friday, October 21, 2016 12:22 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yess otm!

The whole "limited government" mantra was penned by business interests who wanted to fill the power vacuum left when people lose faith in their own institutions. And it's worked quite well. These constituents don't sound too happy about all the corruption happening around them, but they don't seem to know where to point the finger. Unfortunately they keep going to the Muslims, and minorities, and gays, and not the people who stabbed them in the back.

Which I can only blame on our education system which doesn't teach people how anything works in this country, and our culture that says community and public service is for lame ass dorks.

Not only that but our recently-invented culture of the individual, which also helps people disengage from things. I have to hand it to these people, they did a damn fine job over the past few decades.

oh man, Omni was a great magazine

Omni >>>>> Wired

lol a friend saw that dude in the van with the dog and pointed out the name below the caption

wondering if an ilxor needs to explain some things to us

early Wired was ok but in retrospect a lot of the ideas were embryonic Silicon Valley attitudes

The whole "limited government" mantra was penned by business interests who wanted to fill the power vacuum left when people lose faith in their own institutions.

otm. it also translated directly into low, low tax rates, deregulation and higher profits.

disappointed to see that the omni archive is gone from itnernet archive; they did 'relaunch' as a new site though, but I want to see airbrushed pictures of robots

Don't forget Spin.

Meadows now claiming that challenge to Ryan's speakership is "gathering steam"

fun times in the GOP House Caucus!

boy they really want to identify every problem but the actual obvious one that's been staring at them with beady little eyes for a year

oppo dump isn't coming is it

A Bloomberg poll conducted Oct. 14-17 showed that 51 percent of Republicans think the Trump’s view of what the GOP stands for better matches theirs, compared to 33 percent who said Ryan’s perspective more closely matched theirs.

lol

Trump's view? on which day of the week?

less LOL = this means Trump-isms can survive long after Trump shuffles off

that... isn't actually funny

A significant percentage of the GOP (more than half if you take this poll at face-value) feels comfortable aligning themselves with the blatant vanguard of white supremacy; excuse me if I don't chuckle at that

imo the classic "got mine, fuck you" fantasy is appealing to some people and they think Trump will somehow help with the former, as he excels at the latter

i was LOLing mostly at the idiocy of Republicans thinking that the problem the party is currently facing isn't due to the disastrous shitbag of a candidate they unleashed, but "Paul Ryan's lack of leadership".

I agree though that it isn't actually funny at all.

oppo dump isn't coming is it

Today would have been a bad day for it.

Meantime, Byron York calls Nancy and David French big babies, pretty much. Movement conservativism IS falling apart.

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/789550057628508160

“Suppose she wins Pennsylvania by 50 votes,” Giuliani said. He speculated, without evidence, that Democrats would “steal a lot more than 50 votes in Philadelphia. I guarantee you of that. And I’ll tell you how they will do it — they’ll bus people in who will vote dead people’s names four, five, six times . . . or have people in Philadelphia paid to vote three, four and five times.”

Mordy are you in on this, sounds like a good gig

(latest Rucker/Costa)

ums: that was here

Il Douché and His Discontents: The 2016 Primary Voting Thread, Part 4

Closest analogy I can think of (not that it's a perfect analogy) is if the management of Playboy were making an appeal along the lines of "OUR LOYAL READERS SUBSCRIBE FOR THE ARTICLES!" while the subscriber base is all like, "where the titties at?"

so many threads

Meantime, Byron York calls Nancy and David French big babies, pretty much. Movement conservativism IS falling apart.

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/789550057628508160

― Ned Raggett, Friday, October 21, 2016

Take pity: he's always worn long hair!

this is my first experience with Byron York. he seems p dumb

good name for a country club preppy villain in an 80s movie there byron

On Sunday TV appearances Byron York has the air of a Michael Chabon character from the mid '80s, likes Dubonnet and sodomy.

in a way I kinda feel forks upthread. I don't think mass shootings will happen at polls, but anytime you irresponsibly stoke fires amongst your base, suggest improprieties that aren't there, ask a bunch of "delusions of grandeur" paranoid, armed conservatives to "be vigilant" at the polls, even if it's not widespread, it increases the chances of someone acting out.

nobody even needs to die for the damage to be done. there was a sticker someone I know shared recently of a pic of a Trump stick figure kicking a rainbow LGBT stick figure in the chest. people that think that way are feeling validated and no needing to hide what they feel about minorities, gays, lesbians, Muslims, whomever they don't like. Add that to how strapped the GOP population is and that's enough to provide a significant amount of intimidation.

That's what has nauseated me in recent weeks.

Yeah French is a classic example of somebody caught up in his own unfortunate approach who has now been utterly caught off-guard. You can see it in a lot of movement conservative types this year -- what would have normally been a standard 'let's trash Hillary and stupid Dems' election year of activity has turned into a two-front war, and the really horrible people after them are supporting their side's general candidate.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, October 21, 2016 2:38 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this was probably...jeez...four threads ago but some ilxor posted something to the effect that all these idiots are waking up this year and realizing none of their constituents gave a fuck about limited government or supply side economics or conservative values and really just responded to the white bitterness and dog whistles, like the publisher of penthouse who thought people read it for the articles all these years.

― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, October 21, 2016 3:51 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

They knew this... the whole game is to get people to vote against their self interests without realizing it, isn't it? Not surprising they'd jump ship to rally around something much juicier and less abstract.

oppo dump isn't coming is it

Today would have been a bad day for it.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, October 21, 2016 4:39 PM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Let me know when it's crowning

p much anybody who says "Clinton is worse than Trump so I don't care if he gets elected" is at best punchable at this point

soooooooooo apparently curt schilling just m/l said "you're jewish and that makes u you vote democrat, but why?" to jake tapper on live tv; i'm not sure the full context

i also really don't want to know it

it's cute that Curt thinks anything besides being an ex-pitcher is the reason his political tweets are read by anybody beyond people with handles like @NEWWORLDORDER1999APOCALYPSE

like that Ja Rule bit from Chappelle's comedy set

there was a sticker someone I know shared recently of a pic of a Trump stick figure kicking a rainbow LGBT stick figure in the chest.

A Confederate Battle Flag stick figure kicking a rainbow stick figure. Likely combined with a Trump sticker post hoc:

http://www.snopes.com/2016/10/16/donald-trump-auto-decal-riles-social-media/

Someone subsequently 'shopped it so it looks like they're humping as shown here:

https://twitter.com/ewan2395/status/789197688210239489

on that tapper and another recent appearance on tv schilling comes off like he's drunk

just wanna take a moment here to voice my love for Omni, confused nerdy kids of the 80's unite

btw "omni media" bodied the issues offline from archive.org which is a bummer.

Omni published this story, which fucked my shit up beyond belief at 10 or 11 and still haunts me, so for that: CLASSIC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Girl_Who_Loved_Animals

this is the one that did that for me
http://williamflew.com/omni13d.html

William Tevis' "Rent Control" btw.

wow that Girl Who Loved Animals story looks heavy, serious James D Tiptree vibes there

ulysses: I read a few random lines of that, I don't know if I'm strong enough for it right now.

sleeve: "Animals" reads far better and more heartbreaking than that Wikipedia page. I'll try to find the full story online somewhere.

O'Keefe is threatening a new thing

https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/789567429554954240

But this all kinda feels like Wikileaks deal from earlier in the month.

the thing about rent control is that the comic book "Sex Criminals" is essentially an uncredited long form version of the same story. always wondered if they acknowledged that or not.

will it be as stupid and ineffective as the last thing

xp

Accurate

https://twitter.com/EsotericCD/status/789590244115017732

Nice story which fits in with a lot of other observations lately -- Trump got so high on his own supply he's sounding burnt out. (Also love the side comments about 'modest' and 'smaller-than-usual' crowds.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/donald-trump-is-in-a-funk-bitter-hoarse-and-pondering-if-i-lose/2016/10/21/d944b518-97a3-11e6-bb29-bf2701dbe0a3_story.html

Meantime, interesting.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/the-clinton-campaign-is-making-a-play-for-utah

“Since we can't check to see if you voted in three states, you will. If you want to vote in three states, you will," said Larry Lewis, 67, a former electrician who lives in Hendersonville, N.C., who doesn't know anyone who has committed voter fraud

"Here let me show," he then said, going off to vote in three states. He has not been heard from since.

that... isn't actually funny

A significant percentage of the GOP (more than half if you take this poll at face-value) feels comfortable aligning themselves with the blatant vanguard of white supremacy; excuse me if I don't chuckle at that

― ¶ (DJP), Friday, October 21, 2016 1:35 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup this is why i don't get any funnies or schadenfreude out of trump being a monster or watching the GOP "squirm". yalls mileage may vary

well the al miller dinner was pretty funny, i guess, in a "am i having a stroke" kind of way

Accurate

https://twitter.com/EsotericCD/status/789590244115017732

Not accurate. That gif is pretty consistently funny, but it's important to remember the Raptor is a hero.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-toronto-raptors-mascot-is-down-but-never-out-in-praise-of-a-great-performer/

A fine corrective!

Meantime this...appears to be serious?

https://twitter.com/alivitali/status/789607424370016256

would like to know more about the prices byron york has paid for taking stands

He's since half-way apologized:

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/789578769921114116

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/789578908756836352

(I am amused at the new profile photo. Oh you're a hip young reporter now, are you?)

Paid tha cost to be tha boss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqQpIo327Uw

re: Clinton in Utah - not gonna happen, I think the campaign just has more money than it can use or put into other races at this point so why not make it rain on some low-grade political operatives and try to run up the overall popular vote a little bit

Local government ads are getting pretty nasty. Seeing people I've never even heard of getting butchered on TV

utah's going to vote two people ahead of the clinton, again.

I am so glad we live in DC and nobody ever spends any money on tv ad buys here

man i know i don't spend much time on ilx anymore, but when can we get embedded tweets the way we have embedded youtubes?

Agreed.

boooooooooooooo