The Good Place on NBC

What the fork this isn't on until 10 pm?

Watched the first season on Netflix, thought it was p good.

netflix internationally, thank god

wkiw janet

That was great, I could handle all episodes being 2 x

Nice pivot with Ted Danson - in that he's definitely the bad guy, but you still kind of want him to do a good job

Also I like the whole cast in this. And it's a great example of something that's comforting without being "cosy" (although all Schur shows inevitably end up that way)

I'm very curious to see how they'll manage to keep this up for an entire season.

it was weird seeing danson and 'shawn' appear in back-to-back ads

one of the things i really (disproportionately) love about this show is the way janet appears and disappears. they have a cgi budget, they could magic her in and out of frame with some crazy wonky effect, but they chose to use jump cuts instead. it fits so much better with the show's pacing and comedy timing.

didn't catch season 2 opener yet but this is like, the best normal network comedy on tv in years. i watched all of season 1 in one go, which never happens.

janet is so good

I read some info about the s1 finale and thought "this sounds super interesting, let me watch it" and put it on in the living room while my wife (who does not follow tv crit at all) was wrangling our kids.

Five minutes into the pilot, when Eleanor is looking at the clown paintings in her house, my wife looks up and says, "Oh I get it, she's in Hell."

(I lolled.)

I also binged the entire season over the course of this week.

Fantastic show, and I'm very, very glad that the non-Bell/Danson cast is getting and producing work this good.

Love this show, every part of it is great.

Janet happily explaining how she's not a person gets me every time.

I can say without hyperbole that it is my favorite comedy discovery in a long, long while.

I just read that no one in the cast outside of Danson and Bell knew what the reveal was until after it was shot; apparently the two of them knew the entire season, but they kept it from the rest of the cast

Ted Danson laugh after being found out is all time.

it's simple, it's not even a joke, but every single time i love janet's (puzzled) you want me to do what? (beaming) okay!

Ugh, week to week sucks.

i love real eleanor / denise

i love janet

janet is spectacular

Penis flattener

i want to talk about specific janet moments in series 1 but i don't think enough people here have seen it all the way through

Butthole spiders

janet with the potted cactus plants last season made me lol SO MUCH

i love chidi

also every detail about anthony's irl life is so beautifully, majestically dumb & perfect.

http://68.media.tumblr.com/f984d7637accc881706e531c45fdbd48/tumblr_okh55n69AT1teep5ro5_250.gif

double ep was v enjoyable

god this show is such a delight

yessssss the whole cactus thing

wow i have to watch all this again

i want to talk about specific janet moments in series 1 but i don't think enough people here have seen it all the way through

I always thought that the etiquette for specific show threads was that it was fine to talk about anything that has been broadcast already.

oh cool, because i want to talk about the whole arc where she and jason got married and she proclaimed love and interest for him in the most detached and mechanical and brutally honest way possible, but he bought it because he's jason

and the cactus thing

I feel like even after just one season a character poll would be impossible

Shout out to "real Eleanor" though

if michael was all-knowing AND had watched every episode like he said then he would know that the apartment belonged to monica's grandmother and that it was rent-controlled.

look everyone loves janet, but i love the turn they're doing with "real eleanor" from being perfect in s1 to being an annoying diva in s2.
they're taking a big risk with s2 though, how it's basically incomprehensible without having watched all of s1. sitcoms usually encourage people to drop in on any episode.

would totally watch Good Janet/Bad Janet spin-off.

"they're taking a big risk with s2 though, how it's basically incomprehensible without having watched all of s1"

is anything really a risk anymore when you've got the binge dollars coming in? it's on netflix and hulu. and probably amazon and wherever else.

i wonder how much a network makes letting netflix show their show.

michael is clearly not all-knowing

GF noted how nice it is to be gently lowered back into reality after Twin Peaks via The Good Place

michael is clearly not all-knowing

honestly this is the only aspect of the show's world that bugs me, like people can have private conversations that the architects can't see or hear? this is a tiny quibble, though.

I interpret this as Michael not having been given the resources to properly monitor everyone, because he's working on a project his supervisors don't approve of, even though if it's successful it will really help the organization -- when everyone is torturing him or herself, you don't need such a huge staff.

"when everyone is torturing him or herself, you don't need such a huge staff."

uh, except for the town of people who are in on it? that's a lot of overtime.

That's just for now, though. Initial outlay to get the project up and running.

honestly this is the only aspect of the show's world that bugs me

Well, they keep suggesting that Michael is actually terrible at his job, so that's seems like a good enough explanation.

My guess is that the season will work towards the gang and Michael teaming up against the larger aggressor (being Holt's husband from Brooklyn 99).

There is a typically TV critic indulgent thread on Twitter at the moment - they've decided it's a TV show about storytelling and other TV shows. I get the inclination but that is a godawful boring take on it.

i'm rewatching on netflix and it definitely works better as a binge. a chapter a week is fine but less satisfying.

Michael isn't supposed to be omniscient - he's the guy setting up the Sims world and letting it run.

they've decided it's a TV show about storytelling and other TV shows. I get the inclination but that is a godawful boring take on it.

"Area stoner thinks everyone on TV also stoned."

That speech Michael gave to his minions was all-time! “Sure, we could fire up the penis-flattener...”

Just blew through the entire series this weekend. I paid no attention to the episode count so I was shocked when I realized the first season was over.

Not much to say that hasn't already been said. It's great, and I wish I hadn't sat on it for so long. Recognizing glimmers of oneself in the main characters is kind of a 'fun' game (the familiarity of Eleanor's relationship with her coworkers stung a bit).

DJP spoiled this for me on Twitter
is it still worth watching?

Yes

for janet alone, yes

I spoiled myself by peeking at this thread. The impact was lessened slightly but the twist almost seems to be the jumping-off point of the series rather than a Shyamalan-esque 'DID I BLOW YOUR MIND?!?' moment. So, yeah, definitely worth watching.

yeah, and upon rewatching the whole first series takes on a whole new tone

Main cast aside (all excellent), it's lovely to be reminded how amazing Adam Scott is at playing a total douche. He has such a range, that one.

That's really his best mode

It took me way too many hours to realize that this is No Exit: The Sitcom.

This is the only show for which I will wade through ads on nbc.com (which continually crash the stream)

I am hopeful for more amazing Jianyu/Jason content

This show cements for me the opinion that I should always make an effort to check out Michael Schur-driven shows.

DJP spoiled this for me on Twitter
is it still worth watching?

1. Sorry!
2. Absolutely. Knowing the "twist" is what made me start watching the show and it is super, super hilarious regardless.

It's beside the point but now I find myself wondering what all the other 'extras' are doing with their time when not interacting with the humans. Just eating Hawaiian pizza I guess?

I am interested to see how they flesh out the cosmology. Like, assuming those people are actually demons or something like it, how much of a drag must it be to behave like such paragons of humanity all the time and not bite people or flatten their penises? I expect we'll be seeing more Denise-ing as the experiment continues.

my ongoing reaction was "these people can't even be real" so I'm sticking with that impression

One of the things that Team Fremulon have perfected is making compliments as funny as insults, especially between women. I love that.

here's an abridged version of the full list of food puns i turned in with my first draft of tonight's #TheGoodPlace episode pic.twitter.com/x335NYNN09

— Megan Amram (@meganamram) September 29, 2017

"Camembert-bie Let's Go Party" is the Galaxy Brain of restaurant puns.

Greatly improved second ep, good direction for the show to go!
Also"biscotti pippen"

If this wasn't so long it'd be worth polling. "Squab goals."

Now I really want to see a Bob's Burgers/The Good Place crossover.

Sushi and the Banshees <3

Just finished Chapter 16. This show keeps reinventing itself and its character relationships so quickly I wonder how long it will take for the story to burn itself out. That said, I love it so much.

Mindy is such a great tertiary character, btw.

"You walked in on me while I was masturbating. Or I walked in on you while I was masturbating."

i was reluctant to check this out because i thought it was by some pushing daisies people, and then it seemed super like it was even though it turns out i was wrong about that, but i guess it has turned out ok anyway, except that i am kind of expecting it to become a little insufferable or nauseating like pushing daisies. maybe the lack of a tru luv theme will ensure that it can't.

My mom liked Pushing Daisies, but I never watched it. I can guarantee you my mom would hate this show.

w . . . kiw mindy

Same.

watched S2E2 last night and i really do kinda like the wobbly nature of things. i don't know what is gonna happen. and i dig that. i also kinda like the idea of them pretending to be miserable for a whole season just to help michael which makes no sense! but what else are they gonna do?

and i loved michael confiding in jason and jason having no idea what he was talking about. "i understand the word rat...and the word jason..."

Xp Tru luv theme is very much on the way, don't doubt

this show.... is not good

You're right. How could we have all been so wrong. Let's stop watching it, guys.

it has problems. jianyu is/was a terrible actor for instance.

He's meant to be an incompetent idiot, not a successful mastermind of disguise

How would Caviar on a Stick even work?

http://i66.tinypic.com/2t637.jpg

Pushing Daisies was beloved by romantics who find sex repulsive. There's nothing romantic about The Good Place.

Star crossed lovers meet in hell, find each other through hundreds of incarnations isn't romantic?

They share a predicament, not a soul bond. The show explicitly mocks the idea.

....in the last episode it showed that they always end up In love with each other? What am I missing here?

yeah it’s always been a possibility! the show is nowhere near the misanthropic paradise yr projecting on it xxpost

Hot Dog On A Stick On A Stick! C'mon, haters!

Star crossed lovers meet in hell

(someone) bless jason and janet

wrap the stick in a blini, dip it in creme fraiche, sprinkle caviar on top

i think about the chowder fountain a lot, it was v upsetting

He's meant to be an incompetent idiot, not a successful mastermind of disguise

i understand this. i should have said "the actor playing jianyu".

i can also totally understand ppl finding the cutesy tone offputting. for me it was definitely an acquired taste.

Loved the first season, really looking forward to this.

I'm still not convinced that this idea should have been extended past one (great) season but I'm giving s2 a chance.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/sep/28/the-good-place-review-kristen-bell-heavenly-afterlife-comedy
This is the same column that had Norsemen last week

w . . . kiw mindy

― mookieproof, Saturday, September 30, 2017 2:56 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

don’t forget the cocaine

it has problems. jianyu is/was a terrible actor for instance.

Really? I love this guy and think he totally nails the role.

Chidi's thoughtful sipping of the clam chowder fountain was great this week.

yeah jianyu/jason is magically dopey, i think he’s perfect

yeah there's nothing wrong with that guy's acting, that is exactly how stupid that character is supposed to be. dope!

ok

He's managed to go full lotus or close hasn't he? Whi8ch possibly undermines the role.
Slightly too good at doing something like that from the starting point he's supposed to have been at.

But been enjoying this anyway.

he's a professional amateur hip hop dancer though. way limber.

Gripe: I'm getting tired of Chidi and his almond milk. Hopefully that is past now that they had their "Groundhog Day" episode.

OTOH, demon Chuck seeking more opportunities to bite will never get old.

aren’t trains neat? choo-choo!

I cracked up when Jason disassembled the front wheel of his partner’s bike. I feel we were denied the horrible crash scene, but the implication was great

I want some more of Shawn retreating into his cocoon

Enjoyed the first couple but it feels like the writers have written themselves into a corner that might be quite difficult to get out of.

you have identified perhaps the primary pleasure of the show!

Once again it's the pernicious hand of the AV Club: as soon as a show gets good, you start to worry about it fucking up or burning out. There are TV reviewer tropes just as there are TV tropes.

i believe that (s)he is sincere (forksclovetofu) at 8:05 30 Sep 17

....in the last episode it showed that they always end up In love with each other? What am I missing here?


**extremely nerd voice** Mindy said they had had sex 20 times over 8 sessions but only said they loved each other once.

Once again it's the pernicious hand of the AV Club: as soon as a show gets good, you start to worry about it fucking up or burning out.

It was good from the very first episode but pressing a consistent reset button so that the characters remember nothing from the first season is a difficult corner to get yourself out of, and they've spent two episodes trying to find a way out of it already.

They aren't making the show week to week you know. They have months of story meetings where they lay aaaaaaalllll this shit out

It will console none of you that Schur specifically consulted w/ Damon Lindelof to figure out how to (and how not to) navigate a high-concept series

Given Schur's track record, I'm fine with him doing a post-mortem on a popular series with its creator so he can avoid the same pitfalls.

"It was good from the very first episode but pressing a consistent reset button so that the characters remember nothing from the first season is a difficult corner to get yourself out of, and they've spent two episodes trying to find a way out of it already."

did you not see the end of the season 2 opener? they are not going to keep doing that.

Consulting with the guy who made The Leftovers seems pretty smart.

*I* thought it was a smart move but given the Lindelof hate elsewhere on the board (see the nu-Watchmen thread) I figured it might cause some concern

"i was reluctant to check this out because i thought it was by some pushing daisies people,"

no, that's the new Star Trek (or was until he quit; he also did American Gods and Hannibal, so I wouldn't hold Pushing Daisies against him)

please let Hannibal show up. Space Hannibal. maybe he’s the sous chef

I mean, on Star Trek. He should show up in The Good Place too, though

i mean, i liked pushing daisies (or maybe i liked anna friel), it just was a little suffocating and cloying

i finished s1

it's weird that this is such an LA show and the only Latino is a criminal with the moral and mental capacity of a 12-y.-o. whose innocent stupidity is played for laughs

i know it's churlish, as is noting there appear to be no gay people despite kb's luggy side

happy_shruggie.gif

I don't think anyone in the show is from anywhere near LA (Eleanor: Arizona; Chidi: Nigeria/Senegal; Tahani: UK; Jason: Florida)? Does "LA show" mean something more general? Also, I think Jason is Filipino-American; idk if that makes it better or not.

I thought Antonio and Gunner played a gay couple on the first season, too. Don't know if that counts.

*in

If anything makes me uncomfortable, I think it's that Jason's character might come close to being actually intellectually disabled at times but it is always played for laughs. I don't have a clear opinion about it yet, just a potential red flag.

the neighborhood is like a parody of LA suburbs i.e. all the frozen yogurt, sunshine etc, but it's true it's neither here nor there as far as my discomfort around that character goes.

i like the show! i just wish it could be a little braver about race (and gender and sexual identity)

There are four main human characters on the show, only one of whom (and arguably the least moral of them) is white. Two of the others are an African philosophy professor and a British Asian millionaire philanthropist, neither of which seem like stereotypical or insulting portrayals. I don't think it's statistically unrealistic that all four would be predominantly heterosexual. What am I missing?

the fact that the only latino is a borderline-retarded criminal

but yes i take your point

He's not Latino!

ha okay well i guess i am dumm sorry everyone

i think its cool that they went with unknowns for jason, tahani, and chidi. i looked them up and chidi and jason have done almost nothing! and tahani would only be known by people who watch british music chart shows on t.v. completely unknown here.

yeah, he's filipino on the show. and filipino/chinese in real life.

and even jason thinks that heaven is racist. he says so on the show.

i know jameela! we used to work together. here's a picture i took of her once. v proud of how it came out

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/640x360/p01pqps9.jpg

I think it's that Jason's character might come close to being actually intellectually disabled at times but it is always played for laughs

That's a bit heavy! I thought the character was a parody of a lamebro Youtuber / Viner type

Tracer: whoa!

The Jason character seems more culturally dumb to me than mentally challenged? I’ve known people who were actually book smart who come off more naive. I think he’s just... from Florida.

jameela and kristin bell are two of the most beautiful people on television, but I kind of like that the show doesn't really play up their beauty

Chidi is a well known NY stage actor

as soon as I read that, my first thought was "so what L&O episode was he on?"

one way back in 2010, looks like

lol

"Chidi is a well known NY stage actor"

which kinda means unknown. in t.v. terms.

i just think it's cool that they are not people who have been in 10 different awful people sitcoms.

I get a little bit of cognitive dissonance watching this show and realizing that Eleanor and Chidi, or at least the actors playing them, are my age. At least I'm not in hell.... I think.

xp he was also in High Maintenance!

I have to agree that people who regularly do (or have done) stage work are better at actual acting. Or at least I hold to that bias.

I liked him in Paterson too.

one more slightly dim filipino-american bro on a lighthearted-look-at-existential-dilemmas-focused primetime show and we'll officially have a trend (see also josh chan on CRAZY EX-GIRLFRIEND)

I like The Good Place a lot more as a show but tbf, at least in Crazy Ex-Gf, you also saw Josh's family (incl e.g. a doctor father iirc) and friends (incl a Filipino-American priest). But yeah, I was wondering if this is a Filipino-American stereotype I didn't really know about.

jason's friends from the old days show up briefly in flashbacks. crazy ex girlfriend does have a season and double the episode length on the good place...

I remember Jason's friends being similarly dumb but I could be forgetting. Second point is totally fair and I do think Good Place is mostly really good on race.

no one is arguing for unjust slandering of floridians I see

Yeah, it might be more of a Florida stereotype than anything.

It is 100% a Florida stereotype

you know you're in the bad place if your soulmate doesn't even know who blake bortles is

anti-Florida, anti-dj bigotry is acceptable

that's not music...that's EDM!

jetskis, dance crew, djs, drugs, jetskis... imo Jason's life had it all

also his friend Pillboy, who is DOPE

I lol every time he talks about Pillboy

also: wings

I want to order wings now.

wings are dope

It was a good call.

i don't know about chidi, making him senegalese (?) but coming up with an in-world excuse for playing him as a culturally unmarked american (or i guess, culturally highbrow = cosmopolitan, conventional social identity left behind) plays exactly on the nose for his portrayal of a philosophy professor (seriously, pitch-perfect), but it also sets them up to not have any need to address black identity.

everyone is equal in death

- thomas hobbes

Chidi should speak French in the flashbacks. Where was he supposed to live? It's hard to tell because you get his grown friend, the Australian professor, the English-speaking girlfriend in bed...

we binged the first season in like 2 days - i like it a lot

i think he moved around a lot doing post-docs and shit

I demand more expository rigor from my NBC sitcoms.

yeah, i don't really care. SOME of the animals on earth on Z Nation turn into zombies. but apparently most don't.

Not that it's a life and death matter but I wondered that too about where Chidi was supposed to have actually lived and taught. It makes sense that it would be in an English-speaking First World country but then he could have just given that as his reason for speaking English in ep 1.

I mean, idk, maybe it was at a Senegalese uni where an Australian guy moved to teach and they just translated the flashbacks.

everyone can understand everyone else, in death

like, it's an american TV show so it's finna be in english regardless of where the characters are actually supposed to be from. plus, y'know, they're all dead. so it would make some sort of sense that souls would be able to understand each other in the fantasy, imaginary universe of this afterlife.

idk sounds like a cop-out to avoid addressing the armenian genocide

if they r souls why do they not float thru doors and how do they drink chowder from chowder fountains and are the clams ghosts also, damn this shit is sloppy

That part makes sense and was explicitly stated in the first episode, as far as the afterlife scenes go. It's Chidi's flashbacks (to his Earthbound lifetime) that are more confusing.
2xp

And part of the point was that they did feel the need to explain in ep 1 that Chidi was speaking French but was being translated since it was the afterlife, after Eleanor said "you speak excellent English". If, on Earth, his English was good enough to have lectured on advanced topics, he could have just given that reason. Again, it's little stuff, just thoughts that come up when we're posting on the Internet about a TV show.

How do lava demons even fit into human-sized skin suits, ffs. If they don't address this outrage immediately, I'm out.

so you just want the earthbound parts of show w chidi in french to keep it honest then

I did crack up at the demons out of character in the alleyway hanging out, with one of them in his normal form just chilling

I mean, I was just going off something scott was saying in the first place, but, now that I feel like I need to explain, I just think it's confusing where it was that he was supposed to have been a professor. Around 2:45 into s1e7, you see him on campus talking to his Australian-accented colleague about his boots. Most aspects of the setting of the scene - the somewhat diverse but predominantly white student body, their clothes, the vegetation - make me think of a university campus somewhere in the West. They look like what I see every day, not like any of these pictures: https://www.google.com/search?q=senegal+university+campus&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjyxfHuwtfWAhVEyoMKHa69DMIQ_AUICigB&biw=1173&bih=671

It may well be something that they will explain. A lot of the things that seemed confusing in s1 did end up making sense when the twist came around.

xp

And, like, this wouldn't even be that weird:

so you just want the earthbound parts of show w chidi in french to keep it honest then

Master of None did this with flashbacks to India, for example.

I feel like there was a throwaway line that explained where he was teaching, but maybe not?

<3 sund4r

Master of None was a Netflix series, the rules are going to be different on a network sitcom. The most subtitles on a network show this year probably came in the first Star Trek episode.

Doesn't Chidi run through the whole locations of Universities etc thing when he first meets Eleanor in one of the very early episodes but she fails to listen to anything he says or at least remember it.

I, too, failed to listen

guys this is all covered fully in my fanfic

Oh yeah, "my work took me all over the place: Australia, Hong Kong, Paris." So Eleanor was just being dumb when she commented on his excellent English but I've got that lots of times too.

you misspelled racist :)

i feel like they made jason TOO dumb in the last episode even for him. he was like a dog trapped in a human body. that whole episode was pretty much in one room.

tahani's death was a little too dumb too! disguised as a waiter? really? i kinda hope this show doesn't get too dumb. guess it depends on who is writing the episode.

I kept thinking the most glaring question not asked by characters was 'are there kids in the good place?' or indeed figuring out the real deal based on their absence. Schur's understandable explanation tho - http://www.ibtimes.com/good-place-creator-explains-why-there-are-no-children-elderly-people-shows-afterlife-2477423

I’m only not quite done with this latest episode but... someone just remembered the cocaine. This bodes well.

Oh, never mind

http://www.vulture.com/2017/10/the-good-place-janet-on-the-twist-and-the-audition.html

mindy and janet rule school

So, as hinted, will Season 3 be their attempts to fit into the good Good Place, but finding they brought their hell with them?

otm about the varying quality having to do with writing; the cast always brings it and the concept holds my attention but there are times when the writing feels WAY off

saw that gr80’s buddy (I’m remembering that correctly, right) cord was a story editor on this new one

someone opined that janet is god

i don't think that's quite right, but she's obviously something key

also it'd be funnier if mindy were god

i give this week's episode 12 out of 13

Michael’s slow motion home alone-style freakout

felt like this week (and last week to a degree) were a bit of a dip in quality but I can't tell if that's because I'm watching it week to week ratehr than the entire season in one marathon which is what I did in season 1. maybe season 1 felt that way too if you didn't watch it all at once.

Ha, I thought of Munch's The Scream. (Maybe that's obvious.) xp

guys this is all covered fully in my fanfic

Does it have a lot of butt-touching?

I've been on ILX long enough to know that I don't share its sense of humor, borne out by the fact that I didn't find the first season funny at all but have loled a bunch with season 2.

binge-ketchupping soup-to-nuts this past week i was pleased to be struck by something semi-accurate in the most recent ep, which helped explain why I've found the whole thing excellent fun and formally pretty original, while still somehow naggingly familiar

the insight was this: it's a reboot (for TV series) of BEDAZZLED (1967), starring the late peter cook and the late dudley moore, directed by (the not-yet-late!) stanley donen, and one of my dad's favourite films

follow-up insight: well no, it obviously actually isn't exactly -- but it does share some of its tropes, even if it also mixes them up, viz story is a contest of wits between the (or anyway a) devil (cook/danson) and an ordinary human person (moore/bell) over a sequence of reformulations of post-death scenario, which cook/danson sets up to frustrate and torment moore/bell

• technically moore isn't post-death: he's just bungled his suicide when cook turns up, but he's in the pitilessly escape-free faustian space between bargain (seven wishes in return for soul) and the inevitable closer (you never beat the devil), which is also where bell and her chums are. A kind of furiously malleable limbo
• technically is the one who gets to decide when one of his scenarios ends (he blows a raspberry to end it); danson actually makes the executive decision to end bell’s scenarios (but it’s *always* triggered when bell realises they’re not in the good place, so in a way same difference)
• bell has three unchanging chums; moore only really has one, since his suicide and his wishes are all directed towards his success or failure w.the woman played by eleanor bron (“equator bro” thx spellcheck), who I believe appears in all the seven (or six if you agree with moore’s counting heh) limbo scenarios
• cook is THE devil (= lucifer aka satan mekratrig rather even than lucifuge rofocale, belial, abbadon, sataniacha, ashtoreth, leviathan or whoever) where danson is at best A Minor Not-Very-Senior Devil on probation. But both (as the most recent nextflix ep demonstrates) are thinking of challenging the ancient celestial ruling that has exiled them. Cook has collected a billion souls and is therefore in a position to request his case be reviewed per an informal agreement he apparently made with god; danson is hoping to sneak into the (actual real) good place alongside his four victims, when they make their escape.
• This^^^last was what cause me to make the (not-quite) connection – danson-mikey’s serenely deluded arrogance in re his possible entry int heaven suddenly very much reminded me of cook-lucifer’s

Other points: I find the Tahani character a bit of a slog (partly bcz jameele jamil is inexperienced as an actress and slightly over-signals her character now and then, or at leas did at first; partly bcz the US tin ear for UK culture is often just a bit too BLOOD SAUSAGE). On the other hand I think manny jacinto as jason is terrific and adorable. While I know that how d’arcy carden’s janet comes across is a deliberate part of the show’s joke — i.e. that her flat cheerful biddability is a bit wearing on everyone else — it is also a bit wearing on the viewer (well, this viewer).

Anyway, A+ and A++ since the second series began (when it fully came together, and danson's plastic creepiness suddenly made sense)

s/b jameela sorry

What? Janet is perfect. Hush your mouth.

haha i hadn't read the entire thread when i posted: if i had, i might well have muffled that particular personal-reaction truthbomb a bit

tahani is def my least favorite

Just realized yesterday that Janet is the same actress who plays the female Soulstice trainer on Broad City.

O
M
G

you’re right!!!

indeed - and in further broad city crossover, the guy who plays the "I'm going to the gym" character in s2 of this is also in an episode of s1 of broad city as a bisexual hunk who's terrible at improv

one of the things i really (disproportionately) love about this show is the way janet appears and disappears. they have a cgi budget, they could magic her in and out of frame with some crazy wonky effect, but they chose to use jump cuts instead. it fits so much better with the show's pacing and comedy timing.

so so true, i don't understand how this move is still so funny every single time

her exclamations upon appearing are delightful

I think the series has tremendously improved by trading in the "Will Eleanor learn to be better person?" narrative with "Will Eleanor remember to bring Mindy coke next time?"

I find that pov pretty hard to understand tbh.

Afaict, it would be more accurate to say that the show has traded in "Will Eleanor learn to be a better person?" for "Will all four humans and Michael learn to be better?" (with a side of "Will Eleanor and Chidi finally get together?").

bringing Mindy coke is more important because she’s stuck in limbo with us viewers

you are all 8’s

ugh ted danson is amazing

bringing Mindy coke is more important because she’s stuck in limbo with us viewers

Ha, well, I am open to the idea that would be an improvement if it were the primary narrative focus. I just don't think it's what the series has done.

*that it would be ... if this were

oh it’s a sideline and running joke I am fully committed to

love how they introduced the will-they-or-won’t-they thing and immediately showed us the unexpected one in the next episode

eleanor losing it over the toothbrushes and crying into a plunger was great

Lol, both otm.

the condemned four stumbling into redemption, with the strategic flashbacks, makes me think another shoe is going to drop

guys what if this is the test to see if they get into heaven by saving ted danson
a'la albert brooks' Defending Your Life
which everyone who loves this show who hasn't seen should go watch IMMEDIATELY

otm

also O_O

i like it

Mindy is actually God pulling a gag

i'm afraid they've kinda painted themselves into a corner where every season now is gonna have to have a shylamanian TWIST just to keep the game afoot
Season Five: it turns out the whole experience is an acid trip jason's having at a Marshmello concert.... OR IS IT?!?!?!?!?!1111??!?!?!

mike schur talks about that a little bit in this interview:
http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/the-good-place-michael-schur-season-2-premiere-interview.html

I thought you guys did such a great job with the first season. I really didn’t see that ending coming at all. Now that you’ve done a big twist, do you feel the pressure of people expecting more?

Yeah, I do. It’s a double-edged sword, right? I think the reason we pulled off the twist in the first season without a lot of people guessing is because nobody was expecting it. Now we’re in a situation where everyone’s expecting it and so the double-edged sword is, do you try to come up with one big twist that’s as shocking? Or do you not do that and risk betraying the DNA of the show?

The show threw everything up in the air and blew up the whole world at the end of the first season and that’s a little bit why people like it, I think. Or at least some people like it for that reason. So you want to honor that. You don’t want to suddenly make it a totally different show, but at the same time, part of the reason why they liked it is that they didn’t know it was going to happen. If you play right into their hands and do another big twist, that might be the least shocking thing you could do.

It’s very odd. A lot of this is very simple and straightforward and probably doesn’t need to be explained by me, but I’ve never done anything like this before, so I’m in this brand-new world. People who work in this space, who work in science-fiction shows and genre shows and speculative fiction, they would listen to me talking right now and they would be so bored they could barely keep their eyes open. This is what they deal with all the time. For me, it’s all new and interesting and exciting. It’s like an interesting intellectual puzzle to try to work through.

that's interesting. They really are gonna have to stick the landing this season or they're gonna shoo away their core audience.

maybe. but the cast is so good i think even if they didnt quite stick the landing ppl would come back - it’s the benefit of it being primarily a comedy
the story helps, but it’s not why you stay

I don't think they have to blow up the world of the show more than once, tbh. Lost did this with the flashing forward/"We have to go back!" thing and the show still worked after that (though the ending stunk).

It's kind of remarkable to me that anyone could like this show and be into the show and yet has not yet seen Defending Your Life.

My family and I have watched about half of the first season, and I love the cast enough that I don't mind that I almost never laugh. Apparently, without seeking out spoilers, I learned it's about to get really good though, maybe by episode 6?

I find that pov pretty hard to understand tbh.

Eleanor's growth as an ethical being is overdetermined (of course she's going to learn to be more selfless), but the route from where she starts to where she ends is kind of unconvincing, self-abnegating, and not all that funny IMO. But when her lessons get reset, we're liberated from those constraints so that we can indulge and embrace in her crapitude.

I recommended it to one of the bar staff in my local. She liked it, but now every time I see her I get subjected to complaints about having to wait for another episode.

I loved Parks & Rec, and I absolutely adore Ted Danson, but I watched the first two episodes of this and I thought it was really, really dumb. Giant killer lady bugs or whatever? Ugh. Should I stick with this?

Like I said, I've seen maybe the first five episodes of season one and haven't found it funny (just like season one of Parks & Rec, too), and in fact it almost plays like it should have a laugh track but doesn't. But apparently it gets much better in the back half, or so says my daughter.

Yes Evan you should stick with it!

No, everyone talking itt about how much they like it and enjoy the characters and find the writing clever and the jokes hilarious are lying to each other to trick you Evan

man tough crowd

i don't remember a big change in quality midway through s1, so maybe you just are dumb and don't like it

I haven't seen like 2/3 of the NBC sitcom shows and I think it's pretty funny.

lol wasn't questioning that people love the shit out of this show. They obviously do. But as a person who hates that fake-y, candy-colored, internet-baiting Community aesthetic I'm just wondering if I'd be able to enjoy it, too

All I can say is if you think giant killer ladybugs or whatever are dumb, then you're exactly on the same page as the writers. The Good Place? More like this place sucks!

If the cheesy cg was what put you off, there was a lot more of that in the first couple of episodes than in most later episodes, iirc (although there's often still at least a couple of seconds per episode of people flying or whatever)

i don't remember a big change in quality midway through s1

I don't recall this either. The qualities that I like were present from the first episode. Community is one of my favourite shows of all time, at least for the first two seasons, so maybe not your thing.

The last episode had unicorn rides iirc.

Maybe it's not a change in quality I've read about so much as a twist or something else that shifts the show? I'm thinking of this AVClub review headline for I think episode 6 or 7 of the first season: "The Good Place leaps into the unknown—and greatness." I haven't read the review for fear of spoilers, but iirc it was this headline that caught my eye when I was wondering whether or not to watch it. And then then season 2 premiere headline, also intriguing: "The Good Place continues its peerless sleight-of-hand in its two-part season premiere." Peeking at that sort of praise in my periphery made me invested in keeping surprises surprises and seeking the show out when I had time to pay attention. Hence my surprise that the first 5 or 6 episodes of season one have been just sort of OK for me, but also why I intend to stick with it (whereas with most shows, if I'm halfway through season one and not digging it I usually jump ship).

The last one was the first I've really enjoyed this season. They've got themselves out of that narrative corner by now but it took at least an episode too many to get there.

how can you watch several episodes of this without your bullshit detector going off, repeatedly, and at progressively louder volumes?!?

how can you participate in this thread when you're avoiding spoilers?

lol

I keep wondering if people posting they haven't noticed a plot twist have actually read the entire thread and think the subtext being referred to is the main premise, and they keep waiting for the real twist to come in

good thing we haven't talked about the *real* plot twist on this thread, right, chums? *wink wink*

The last one was the first I've really enjoyed this season. They've got themselves out of that narrative corner by now but it took at least an episode too many to get there.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, October 17, 2017 1:47 PM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

agreed kinda; the episode where they debated whether or not to trust michael was very much... overextended and kinda ponderous

I've skimmed and compartmentalized. I mean, it's pretty easy to glean whether something is good or not without spoilers. Just as it's easy to glance at the thread and tell if people like the show. I heard the show was good and looked here to confirm. It ain't complicated.

Hence my surprise that the first 5 or 6 episodes of season one have been just sort of OK for me, but also why I intend to stick with it (whereas with most shows, if I'm halfway through season one and not digging it I usually jump ship).

I did wonder at first whether I was enjoying it. I found it very mannered, and many of the characters very unsympathetic. For me, it's not that there was a shift in quality towards the end of the first season, more that the show seemed to gain stakes that made me like the main characters more.

The last episode had unicorn rides iirc.

I really hate it when television shows incorporate exotic animals. I was disappointed to see the giraffes and monkeys and elephants in this episode.

For me, it's not that there was a shift in quality towards the end of the first season, more that the show seemed to gain stakes that made me like the main characters more.

This is a good way of putting it.

I really hate it when television shows incorporate exotic animals. I was disappointed to see the giraffes and monkeys and elephants in this episode.

FP'd you for this.

So glad I got everything done tonight in time watch this show. Gotta love Thursdays at 8:30

That was stellar, easily my favorite episode of the season.

OTM!

Running VR trolley problem simulations actually seems like a great idea tbh. Michael breaking down why everyone in Les Miz and Victor Hugo himself "suck and deserve to be in the bad place", with numerical scores and extra demerits for being French was both one of the funniest parts of the episode but also seemed to raise an interesting philosophical point at the same time, if I can get analytical about an NBC sitcom for a moment: if we were to know for a fact that there is an afterlife with heaven and hell and immortal omniscient beings who have some kind of absolute system of ethical judgment, what exactly would be the value of studying "human ethics"? The show seems to take the position that human ethics still has its own independent value that the immortal could fail to understand, that these can still moral questions regardless of whether you would end up in heaven or hell, which seems radically humanist or something. Curious what j. thought.

(I'd ask my philosopher half but she's still on s1.)

I'm assuming where they're going with it is that the Danson character will eventually rebel against the unethical system he's always served.

The implications of that are p radical imo!: human inquiry can lead to a moral knowledge and system of ethics that are superior to those of heaven and hell, with the potential to revolutionize the afterlife. Basically, a dogmatic religion can still be wrong even if it is factually accurate.

I would put a blade out the window to kill the one guy on the other track

This cast is so ridiculously good. I want all six of them to star in everything.

The answer to "what would you do to an ethicist if you had near-omnipotent powers?" for me may also be "make them do the trolley problem irl"

Especially a cripplingly indecisive ethicist

the bucket of blood hitting his face was so beautiful

It will never happen but if someone manages to figure out how to do a 2-part The Good Place/black-ish crossover, I am all in.

I could sort of see Diane as a demon from the Bad Place playing experiments on the family.

I'm holding out for Good Place/Carmichael Show.

this + Superstore is a v good pairing

i cant stand superstore

Superstore is great whenever I remember to watch it.

It's the only American workplace comedy I can recall that actually has the appropriate level of contempt for its work setting. I like to imagine that TGP is ultimately set in purgatory while Superstore is set in actual hell.

Michael gleefully picking a chunk of human flesh off Chidi's face was disgusting and hilarious. Easily the best episode so far this season up until now Chidi hadn't been given much to do and he's my favourite character.

I've finally gotten into this, courtesy tt. It's great! I should go back and watch it all really. Michael's drawing of his trolley problem solution needs to be on a t-shirt, and I need to wear that t-shirt

https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22222052_531833037165626_7579528096675395060_n.jpg?oh=8543c5d6d8ab30dd1c2e1308400f0971&oe=5A7013F6

Imago, does that mean you skipped the first season?? Because that really would change things.

I've been given all the spoilers. Still worth watching?

I've seen the last 3/4 episodes

I'm guessing it's all bubblegum Huis Clos goodness?

love janet, love glitching janet even more

Every Janet appearance is so...comforting.

I started watching the first season because of the finale spoilers and it was hilarious.

You got us all! Great work!

http://i64.tinypic.com/2dv0j8l.jpg

Ha, didn't notice the caption.

HA!

"Sacre bleu! I peed in muh pants."

this was such a good episode

is janet glitching out of jealousy?

"I've been given all the spoilers. Still worth watching?"

On the assumption you're watching it for the jokes then yes, it's hilarious.

Ha, interesting: that possibility didn't occur to me. I thought it was because she was beginning to develop human emotion and empathy, which is not what she was programmed for.
xp

That throwaway line about Janet having all the knowledge of the universe is a little ominous

Looking forward to malfunctioning Janet being replaced by Bad Janet.

is janet glitching out of jealousy?

I thought this too.

I can't remember why Michael is supposed to be learning ethics. I don't really care, obviously. Even if it's just to pass the time, that's fine. But I forget the reason they gave.

The knowledge that they're in the bad place has loosened Eleanor up in a really good way. The fact that she and Michael have so much in common, and that she can be more her funny, crappy self around Chidi, is a comedy bonus.

feel like janet is some form of god/higher power

I can't remember why Michael is supposed to be learning ethics. I don't really care, obviously. Even if it's just to pass the time, that's fine. But I forget the reason they gave.

Iirc, Michael wanted the humans' help to outsmart Vicky and Sean and keep all five of them from facing infinite 'real' torture, also suggesting that he might be able to get them all into the actual good place. Tahani and Chidi wanted to go along with the plan because it was their best chance to improve and actually become as good as they had thought they were. Eleanor agreed eventually but only on the condition that Michael also study ethics so that they would all become better and deserve the good place.

(Btw, imago, I'm rewatching s1 with the philosopher so I obv do think it's still worth watching after you know what happens.)

feel like janet is some form of god/higher power

I think it was the first episode of this season where Michael said he stole her from the actual good place, so it could just be she's malfunctioning due to being in the bad place.

It would be difficult to reconcile Janet having all the knowledge in the universe yet learning each restart. I guess maybe in some 'being a bat' sense? My rl person to talk about this show thought very early that Janet would develop a subliminal jealousy, so maybe she's right.

Decent piece in The Atlantic by an ethicict about what this show accomplishes with the topic and how deftly it saved the most famous ethics problem until its second season.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/10/how-the-good-place-goes-beyond-the-trolley-problem/543393/

imo Janet has knowledge in the sense that she’s like a library or database, and can spew out facts. all the restarts have made her cognitive capabilities higher functioning, to the extent she’s able to use that knowledge to do work that requires interpretation

I mean, maybe Janet could become jealous now that she can interpret things and seems to be developing a sense of self

season one Janet was basically Siri

i think all the reboots must be doing something to her. plus, all the interaction she's had with the four main characters. she probably doesn't have to interact much with the demons there. regular janets never get rebooted at all. didn't they say it was the first time a janet had been killed?

Janet would develop a subliminal jealousy

Databases and even highly advanced AIs aren't conscious, in the way I am and I believe you are.

what if she’s been interpreting books on jealousy as part of becoming a therapist

also if this is a abrahamic good place, she could be a seraphim, just sayin

or rather, of the seraphim

xp: Then somewhere in its "circuitry" it may have a model of how jealous people behave. There's been no indication Janet experiences emotions. The whole Jason/Janet "romance" of S1 hinged on how she was motivated to please, but felt nothing. Her "fail safe" pleas for mercy as anyone reached for the reset button were also explicitly explained as a ruse.

Nah, still think Janet is malfunctioning so that Vicky will be forced to bring in a Bad Janet. Maybe cross its wires to force it to emulate a Good Janet.

http://68.media.tumblr.com/8751842a9a7ba74524cb06e498ca6c1d/tumblr_ok25wy412i1udh64ho4_500.gif

I think part of the joy of this show is that it makes the kind of universe-building we're supposed to do in sci-fi or fantasy shows redundant: it doesn't really matter how closely we follow what we're told about the rules of this universe because at any point the universe can be completely turned on its head. What matters then is that the actions we've seen happen in the series so far can be read as plausible in the context of the new explanation for the universe. Janet is a good example - we were told that good Janet was stolen, but there's no particular reason to assume that there won't be a totally different explanation of the nature of Janet coming along at some point, which we can believe and build our understanding around until another explanation comes along.

This makes wild speculation more fun. The question is whether we can expect a once-and-for-all resolution at some point (eg turns out this is *actually* some kind of purgatorial process all these characters have to go through before they can be admitted to a Good Place), or whether that would turn out to be disappointingly glib and implausible, like finding out who gossip girl was. They can keep flipping the universe for as long as its fun, I suppose.

I think I am in some sort of purgatory that does not allow me to watch this show. Tried watching on nbc.com with various browsers and inevitably some of the ads won't load and the whole thing crashes. Finally got a friend's Hulu password, tried to watch via PS4 and it would only play a couple seconds at a time before buffering. Admittedly I have shitty internet, but other services were working fine. :/

i forgot who it turned out gossip girl was. was it georgina?

Clearly it's Tahani.

https://tvrecappersanonymous.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/laughing-dan.gif

lol

Finally got a friend's Hulu password, tried to watch via PS4 and it would only play a couple seconds at a time before buffering. Admittedly I have shitty internet, but other services were working fine.

watching this season via Hulu and it takes at least an hour to get through each 19-minute episode with buffering, seizing up on ads, and crashing altogether

hulu apps are all pretty shitty in my experience (on ps4, appletv, and roku). maybe if you pay for NO commercials.

Glad it's not just me

it works fine if you pay for it outright.

I haven't had any trouble? I've been streaming off the NBC site on a Macbook Pro. I did watch the last one on Hulu, actually.

Also streaming off NBC on a Macbook Pro -- sometimes it's fine, sometimes it's glitchy as hell.

Oh, recalling now that I got a lot of glitches one day and wondered if the directors were doing something really avant-garde with jump cuts.

Ha. I realized that sometimes it would work after restarting the app, and either run perfectly or be unwatchable. So now I'm all caught up! I was a little sad on Mindy's behalf that she didn't get her giant bag of cocaine.

Also I had the same reaction as Maura, that Janet is glitching out due to jealousy that is unfamiliar and unprocessed.

We've been watching this as a family and I think we have one episode left in season one (I know I've missed an ep or two). Last night my wife and I finally figured out what was throwing us off, and we think it's just that we've been both spoiled by high-budget, very cinematic cable dramas and, perhaps, jaded by the fake documentary format, and this is just the opposite of both of those things. Very bright and over lit, not cinematic, the characters default broad (esp.Jason and Tahani), looks like it's shot in a back corner of Disneyland and feels like it has laugh track beats built in (just in case). And yet we really like Bell, Harper (who my kids recognized from nu-Electric Company) and Danson, and the whole enterprise is so charming and good natured (if only fitfully funny) that we don't mind watching it. I suppose that's all one can really ask of a network sitcom.

There's a nu Electric Company??

The mockumentary format never made sense for most of the sitcoms that use it. Worked for UK Office.

I know it's not really the point you were making Josh but I just imagined a gritty cable style version of TGP and oh man it was not pleasant

There's a nu Electric Company??

Lin-Manuel Miranda was on it. He did a super-embarrassing rap about silent E being a ninja.

sadly nu-electric company sucks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvTv6KzLczQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HZwkdx29gg

dying at Janet's reactions to the basketball

also LMM's Electric Company appearances have pretty much ruined my ability to enjoy his Broadway work

So it's not all bad, then.

i think hamilton is like Cats to me. i get why its popular but it ain't for me. the songs seem as hokey as an electric company rap. but maybe i am still getting over the school talent shows i had to sit through for two years where i heard basically the whole musical. hamilton AND adele kinda ruined for me.

I've seen Hamilton twice and loved it both times, even more the second time, so ymmv.

And yet we really like Bell, Harper (who my kids recognized from nu-Electric Company) and Danson, and the whole enterprise is so charming and good natured (if only fitfully funny) that we don't mind watching it. I suppose that's all one can really ask of a network sitcom.

I couldn't disagree more, I think The Good Place is leagues better-written, is intellectually deeper, and has more laughs than any high-gloss prestige cable comedy I can think of. I guess maybe The Comeback was better-written and Party Down had more laughs (though PD wasn't on a prestige network iirc!) I watch it and I'm like "I can't believe I'm watching NBC."

Party Down was on Starz, which is in the limbo between prestige and second-tier premium channel that gives you enjoyable trash

The Carmichael Show and Superstore are at or near the same level, both are (or recently were, in the case of TCS) on NBC

Just for Party Down, The Girlfriend Experience and Spartacus, Starz is fine by me.

I could only think of the latter when I was trying to remember what I'd watched on Starz, but agreed on TGE

Starz also showed Torchwood: Miracle Day, which started out great. (I'm pretending the ending didn't happen.)

How the heck did that end up on Starz?

I'm not sure, to be honest. I assume something weird happened with licensing and BBC America.

here's my contractual plug for black sails (though i still haven't watched the last season)

I never watched it but they get definite props for the move they pulled last season(?)

I couldn't disagree more, I think The Good Place is leagues better-written, is intellectually deeper, and has more laughs than any high-gloss prestige cable comedy

Maybe? What do you consider high-gloss prestige cable comedy? Fleabag? Difficult People? You're the Worst? That sort of thing? Don't know why chose those, but imo prestige cable comedies tend to default wince-inducing dramedy these days, and The Good Place is refreshingly silly compared to that kind of stuff (despite its innately heavy themes). But even if I were to concede your relatively low bar, I still think it looks and feels so much like a generic sitcom that its attributes are somewhat hampered. At least in season one. But hey, I'm sticking with it, so as I admitted, there's definitely something there. I just think that "something there" might only be a product of its being about as good as it can be on network TV, even if I rarely think it's great. Maybe I'd put it slightly on a level with Happy Endings, which hovered in that same (er) purgatory?

In other news, my wife and I watched the first episode of "Ghosted" last night, and talk about low network comedy bar. Compared to that "The Good Place" is pure art.

I guess I don't know what you're looking for from a sitcom if your biggest complaint about it is that it's a sitcom.

Laughs?

Guyaquil OTM.

Enjoying this show enough that I watched the entirety of season one yesterday, thank you ilx

I was sort of hoping Superstore would actually be about Superstore. Seems OK so far. Carmichael Show is obv great.

Not done with this ep yet, but it looks like all our Janet theories are converging.

Oh my, unexpected new wrinkle!

"Wait, you two are sleeping together?"
"Only when we're done having sex!"

convergence otm

i’m going to get it girl
get what?
unclear. I’ll get everything, just in case.

also, i spied “pudding vat” on the store sign and thought to myself “i tawt i taw a pudding vat” and then there was a wide shot and MY DREAM CAME TRUE I LOVE THIS SHOW SO MUCH

"It's sort of a glass half-full/glass stops existing in time and space sort of deal"

"Just walk it off."

the zooks!

Season one finale was pretty clever, and a funny meta-metaphor for sitcoms, so consider me on board for season 2.

Hi guys, I'm broken!

That was a masterfully-paced sitcom episode :D

favorite episode so far, Janet is one of my fav characters in recent memory

2 month break after tonight's apparently? Disgusting.

@KenTremendous
Hi the 8th episode of season 2 of The Good Place airs tonight. It's the last one for 2 months because of football. 8:30 NBC. Ok bye.
3:02 PM - 2 Nov 2017

I can't wait for the holidays to come so I can sit down and rewatch this entire show.

cancel football + renew the good place imho

I've always hated football but this is too far

i love football but fuck this

DEREK

also i love the absolute genius move of using chidi’s obsession with ethics to drive the farce

Yes and no. I kinda feel Kristen Bell, who is a comedic acting genius, has been sidelined this season. We needed more flashbacks to Elanor's life before death...

Not really. The flashbacks were a device to let us know what these characters did to merit a spot in the Bad Place; now that we know, continuing to flash back doesn’t give us anything other than funny vignettes and think this show is being more ambitious than that.

If anything, they should continue flashing back on Michael and show how more of how he ended up being susceptible/amenable to learning from humans. It’s clear he’s not like the other demons just from the elaborate lengths he went to in creating the neighborhood; was he always different or did something spark imagination in him? If the latter, is it something they could expose the other demons to and get more allies?

Jameela Jamil has now said that Tahani is modeled after a real life person whose name she won't divulge, but apparently they know each other.

Which is probably a perfectly safe thing to do, since there's no way a real life Tahani would watch an American sitcom.

flashbacks were a device

An average viewer tuning in to season 2 would be utterly lost. Devices are useful in episodic TV.

but the episodes are chapters, so it’s very strongly implied viewers shouldn’t start at chapter 14

for a second I thought Eleanor had dropped the first "binch" on TV

i too am a total smoke show

^ so good

not skin

So tell me Chidi, how do ethical philosophers feel about murder?

Tahani is quite redolent of someone I knew at university. Hmm

I'd say it's not completely impossible that it could be this person, in fact, given she's an exact contemporary of Jamil's, from Hampstead, an upper-class British Pakistani and a fairly self-regarding Oxbridge type...

i could totally binge-watch that last episode five times in a row. so much goodness.

https://www.gq.com/story/the-good-place-darcy-carden

Acting is such a sad little desperate job where every job interview is you begging for a job. And it happens every day, and you have no control, and it's just this sad little thirsty job. The trick is to be confident and to not be thirsty. That's how you get the job. It's a fucking mindfuck. Don't get into it.

I love knowing that Ted Danson is a "giddy little weirdo" for some reason.

imo the presidents on mount rushmore _should_ have butts on the other side

^ I said this after that scene

btw made it a whole 30 seconds on before Hulu buffered this week

via vpn from the other side of the planet?

btw netflix australia has it now, same day

I'm in America

as we like to call it, The Somewhat OK Place

I've noticed that Hulu has become terrible across the board; I almost never use it anymore.

kind of a letdown that the jacksonville jaguars are good this year

another sign that we are in The Bad Place

I'm in America

― shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 04:35 (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mean, this show is good but it's not that good

Checks out

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DN_RZAkU8AEa-yY.jpg

derek!

Exclusive: #TheGoodPlace Renewed for Season 3 at NBC https://t.co/2zuXRyPtZR pic.twitter.com/pJXWRqu6MF

— Hollywood Reporter (@THR) November 21, 2017

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Alignment meme is extremely accurate

Still only chuckle twice or three times an episode, but I've been enjoying season 2 with my younger one. I just saw "The Trolly Problem" (or whatever it was called) and really like the philosophical paradox of pretending you're being tortured so that the real torturers don't find out and torture you for real. Between that and the meta commentary on sitcom conventions there's enough for me to get into.

the good news

excellent news!

the trolley picture with the blade on a pole killing the single guy on the other track still makes me laugh regularly

I think it works because two of the dismembered bodies are shrugging. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

yay @ renewal!

Watched six episodes. So far my favourite live action US sitcom since Always Sunny was at its prime.

That was a long hiatus - hope it hasn't ruined any momentum it was building. Good new episode.

I'm caught up now. My initial reaction may have been a little overenthusiastic, but season 1 is pretty magnificent - great jokes, great story, very fresh feeling.

Season 2 thus far OTOH... Excellent first two eps (the endless reboots were hysterical), but the it seems to have been running out of steam a bit since. For me the humour lies in wringing every last ounce of ridiculousness out of the premise rather than the minutae of the character's relationships, and the emphasis on the latter in recent episodes has made the show a tad more generic. Also, Eleanor, Tahani and Jason are starting to annoy me, though I still like Michael, Janet and (my favourite) Chidi. There's still been some great stuff in this last handful of eps, the trolley sequence springs to mind.

Tahani and Jason are so annoying.

The Jason reveal in season 1 was masterful, but since then he's been a nothing character. Tahani can be funny, but less so recently.

I was surprised the learn the actress is actually English, it sounds put on (I think she is considerably less posh irl).

man jason is awesome wtf

for some reason everyone loves the endless reboot episode the most but i think the strongest episodes of the show so far are the recent janet-focused ones

Every Tahani gag is like some lame celebrity namedrop gag: "I was on a diamond-studded jet ski with Puff Daddy and Prince Harry when ..."

Every Jason gag is about him being the stupidest person in history: "Oh, eggs, I love those things, they are so funny!" (sits on egg and cracks it and laughs gleefully) "But I still haven't made a chicken yet." (makes sad face, then confused face). "Maybe chickens don't come from eggs, maybe eggs come from chickens? (makes dopey face) Why are birds are so confusing?!"

jason is good

yes. jason is good.

imo the gag is the Tahani anecdotes are never funny or interesting, but she thinks they are because they always involve celebrities and class markers

and the point of her stories is always a super mundane thing that could have been said *without* the namedropping, which makes it funnier to me

Every Jason gag is about him being the stupidest person in history: "Oh, eggs, I love those things, they are so funny!" (sits on egg and cracks it and laughs gleefully) "But I still haven't made a chicken yet." (makes sad face, then confused face). "Maybe chickens don't come from eggs, maybe eggs come from chickens? (makes dopey face) Why are birds are so confusing?!"

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, January 5, 2018 8:03 AM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is so dramatically worse than any jason joke

i dunno, it's not SO far off

I've had a few Jasons in my life, most of whom weren't as stupendously dumb, and it's always a balance between them driving me crazy and me having a really great time

" i think the strongest episodes of the show so far are the recent janet-focused ones" agreed, she is the secret star of the show IMO.

I found this episode a bit weak as a comeback TBH though the very end with Derek and Mindy St. Claire was priceless.

also, i found out janet's mom works with a friend of mine at a college nearby! I was like "holy shit you have got to get her to come to campus"

see if she can bring evil janet too

I truly think this show has no weak points, every actor in the main ensemble is nailing it and i fucking love how much philosophy there is in it

janet's the GOAT

I laughed at a fart joke for the first time in over 30 years because of Bad Janet. gotta give her that.

vicky getting owned so easily was excellent

The other great thing about Jason is that he’s a total babe.
[Laughs.] I wouldn’t say that. Oh man, I always get embarrassed when that’s mentioned. I’ve always been not comfortable being viewed like that, but it’s a nice compliment to have. I remember one of our executive producer’s assistants was like, “Hey Manny, how much are you paying the writers to write all of this stuff about you?” Because it was always complimenting Jason as the hot guy or the attractive guy. And I’m just like, “Oh, you know, I’m paying them 15 percent of my paycheck just to get those statements in to make me look good.” But yeah, it’s a compliment I’m trying to take more warmly now.

http://www.vulture.com/2018/01/the-good-place-season-2-manny-jacinto-interview.html

In the second scene, the audition involved me and my buddy Pillboi, who you see in some of the flashbacks of season one. It’s me pitching him a product about an energy drink/deodorant idea.

lmao

jason is good

is this back??

as of last night

derek bortles IS a dumb name

bad janet is my new favorite

Tahani used to present...T4? Some music stuff? I can't remember, but it's something like that.

great interview with irl Jason aka Manny Jacinto here

http://www.vulture.com/2018/01/the-good-place-season-2-manny-jacinto-interview.html?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t

lol, i never saw this
http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/watch-the-good-place-cast-react-with-shock-to-that-big-twist.html

I just thought about bad Janet's fart joke and started laughing again

Maximum Derek

budhole

i think that's a good joke

I really had “Maaaaaximum Derek!” flashbacks today

here's what jameela sounds like irl, it's not too far off

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01h4g1g

My wife and I have a total affinity for Jason Mantzoukas' shtick.

We too laughed loudest at the fart joke.

Jason's reply to the knock knock joke at the roast, and Ted Danson's reply, got an out-loud guffaw from me.

Any latin scholars? From:

irrisiones infidelium convivia
eius formido

Google translate offers:

ridicule of unbelievers banquet
are terrible

love a good blake bortles joke

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS92CsMUMAAM-Wg.jpg

Are the first episodes of season 2 not available on Hulu? Or am I blind?

I can confirm I don’t see the first three

NBC has been fucking around with promoting their own app and they’re all in there but I’m not sure what the access rules are

all the jaguars need is a defense and an offense and some rules changes

Season one is even better/funnier on rewatching, esp Ted Danson. It's odd to me nothing about Eleanor's obv miserable depression/alcoholism doesn't get mentioned wrt her being a "bad person" tho

the whole second season was up on hulu before thursday’s episode aired but i guess it got taken down. boo

demons are people too

this show could go on forever and i wouldn't mind..

I just finished season 1. Chidi's approach to teaching Eleanor doesn't make any sense. He's told on the first day that people have been sent to the good or bad place on the basis of a formula that quantifies the moral value of every action. As a moral philosopher, he would recognize that this means consequentialism is the truth. But when the times comes to teach Eleanor how to be a good person, we see him poring over all these books and then teaching her about Plato and Aristotle and and Hume on personal identity for some reason. It takes him days or weeks to even get around to utilitarianism, the earthbound moral philosophy that most resembles the system he's been informed is the right one. And then, when Eleanor is ready to accept it, he tells her it's wrong.

Maybe he thinks that learning about these things could be morally edifying. But no academic philosopher would actually think that this is the best way to become good, or pass for good, in a short time. A better idea would be to ask Janet, the freely available source of nearly all information, what really counts as a good action.

I'm only half-kidding when I say that this is a fatal flaw and the show sucks because of it.

it had to happen sooner or later

it’s the ilx rule of comedy discussions

As a moral philosopher, he would recognize that this means consequentialism is the truth.

Chidi's defining characteristic is that he is completely incapable of making a decision ever about anything, and this characteristic has ruined his chances of getting to the Good Place. It makes perfect sense that he would be incapable of teaching anyone else the right thing except by accident.

I think that's similar to what I was getting at above wrt s2, in my untrained-in-philosophy way, except that I see it as a strength, or at least an interesting perspective:

if we were to know for a fact that there is an afterlife with heaven and hell and immortal omniscient beings who have some kind of absolute system of ethical judgment, what exactly would be the value of studying "human ethics"? The show seems to take the position that human ethics still has its own independent value that the immortal could fail to understand, that these can still [ be ] moral questions regardless of whether you would end up in heaven or hell, which seems radically humanist or something. Curious what j. thought.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, October 20, 2017 8:51 AM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

(I'd ask my philosopher half but she's still on s1.)

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, October 20, 2017 8:52 AM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm assuming where they're going with it is that the Danson character will eventually rebel against the unethical system he's always served.

― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, October 20, 2017 9:03 AM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The implications of that are p radical imo!: human inquiry can lead to a moral knowledge and system of ethics that are superior to those of heaven and hell, with the potential to revolutionize the afterlife. Basically, a dogmatic religion can still be wrong even if it is factually accurate.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, October 20, 2017 9:12 AM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But, yeah, I guess in the context of s1, trishyb OTM.

Maybe heaven is wrong about what is right or wrong. It's a fairly severe answer to the Euthyphro dilemma, I guess.

There are other things like that, but it's best to suspend disbelief (ted danson's character often seems not to know things you would expect someone who has read every book to know)

Sund4r otm. Also, in that first introduction video, Michael claims that when someone ran a red light at night, even if nobody noticed, it gave them minus points. Or something like that. The point is: The points seem more deontological in nature.

I've got my own issues with this show (and otherwise) but the inconsistency that bugs me the most may be Jason, who is so stupid and innocent and guileless it seems unfair to punish him any more than it would be fair to send small children to the bad place. Even when he means ill in flashbacks he never seems particularly bad or mean. Just ... rock stupid, which is determined at birth.

I will say, considering what the show has done so far, it's only limited by its ambitions. For example, there could be a reveal that the entire scenario is there to test Michael. Or that Jason really is a silent Buddhist monk, and this is all taking place in his subconscious as he wrestles with morality. Or that Chidi is an engineer who tried to defect back to Earth and is being punished. And so on. Hence the most fun I have had with this show has been viewing it as a cute distraction and a modest deconstruction of sitcom tropes, not some even semi-serious dive into philosophy.

I mean, he was an adult who mostly lived off crime, even if he was incompetent as a criminal. I don't really see it as inconsistent with the rest of the Good Place/Bad Place's moral framework that he would be punished. xp

yeah, but he is functionally special needs. it's not fair to punish someone too ignorant to realize what they're doing is bad.

I guess. I haven't really seen much to suggest that the system makes many allowances for compassionate reasons. It's pretty rigid and harsh. Eleanor notes its harshness fairly early on.

"Eleanor notes its unfairness..." - i.e. I agree that it's unfair (which is why we sympathize with the characters who are rebelling against it) but not that it's inconsistent.

When they finally get to the Good Place they're going to find it insufferable.

Eleanor - everyone here is so self-righteous/boring/annoying
Chidi - I question your moral rigidity and lack of self-questioning on a profound philosophical level
Tahani - literally everyone here is trying to upstage me
Jason - OK Jason will probably love it

feel like there are more twists to come. idk if this is the one but in certain Jewish traditions "hell" is a place where you work out the things that plagued you [ethically] in your life in order to prepare you for "the good place." what if the bad place isn't really a bad place at all but a place for ppl (and maybe even demons) to make themselves better in order to move on to the better place. why would a perfect system otherwise allow this much going off the rails? these ppl can create neighborhoods from nothingness and stride the void but they don't know that michael has reset the simulation hundreds of times? they have no systems in place to monitor that kind of thing? or more likely this is all a part of a greater plan?

someone behind the curtain behind the curtain, as it were

It kinda seems to me that a lot of these criticisms are based on an understanding of religion that the show has never actively supported and in some cases directly criticized. Yeah, the system is definitely unfair when it sends Jason to the bad place, and yeah, the system is blind to it's own problems, but that seems of a piece with the idea of the spiritual structure as just some mindless bureaucracy, where everything doesn't happen for a good reason, but just because it always has. It's kinda Kafkaesque.

And Michael is the great destroyer, not because he wanted to, but just because he tried to innovate. When injected with the possibility that things could actually be different, the whole system falls apart.

Fred OTM, tbh

once it was revealed that the entire premise of the show was based on lies and deception, frankly all logic went out the window. which is fine. but we have no idea what is really going on at any time.

Yep. And what does that mean for a show about religion ;)

it's metaphysical but it is not religious imo in any specific or even general sense.

I'd argue it's the other way around. There's very little that's actually about metaphysics, while there's a whole lot about organized bureaucracies like religions. That is exactly my point, Josh.

well, there are arguments about what is good and what is bad, but you can have those arguments without religion. especially given this show's tradition of deception, we still can't know for certain what is even going on or why.

Unless I suppose one considers religion just a system of morality predicated on rewards and punishment, I guess, in which case, sure, you could say it's generically about "religion." Just not any specific religion and without and specific indicators of religion. Regardless, I think it gives the show too much credit as anything beyond maybe a very shallow parody of religion. That is, you can say "it makes no sense, therefore ... religion!" but eh.

well, there are arguments about what is good and what is bad, but you can have those arguments without religion.

This isn't metaphysics, though? Right?

Unless I suppose one considers religion just a system of morality predicated on rewards and punishment,

Rewards and punishments that are found in an afterlife (that is even structured, in a system loosely reminiscent of at least one popular and influential extant tradition of religious belief, into a 'good place' and a 'bad place' [where souls are tortured for eternity])? Overseen by omniscient immortal beings? How is this not commenting on religion?

taking this show too seriously is a) natural b) lamentable c) obvious d) intended e) all of the above

I agree! But here we are.

xpost Because the show has pulled the rug out enough times that we're almost in Philip K. Dick territory. Are their flashbacks real? Is this place real? Is the good place real? Is this the afterlife? And so on. Do any of these people really know how they died, or if they died, or only what they were told by Michael? Who is a liar enlisted to punish them? And is Michael really omniscient? Not by any standard of the word. Etc.

xpost I have a terrible grounding in philosophy, but I suppose it could be argued whether fundamentals of good and evil are essential facets of existence, and whether there could be a society without either. Or a point of society. Or whether society debates good vs. evil because that is the will of the creator/god, or if we invented god then did we also invent good and evil, and so on. Dunno if that's metaphysical.

f) fun!

Yeah, I'll acknowledge that, once they kept going after the s1 finale, a lot does end up up in the air. Speaking of which, I was really hoping for the balloon to work.
xp

Yeah, I'll acknowledge that, once they kept going after the s1 finale, a lot does end up up in the air.

It's kind of a testament to the show's strength that I still find it compelling viewing after this.

I honestly don't really think it's taking a comedy show too seriously to discuss its philosophical statements when the show itself centres around characters studying ethics and has devoted an episode to taking apart an analytical philosophy thought experiment. Not like we're doing this on a Modern Family thread.

wait... this is the bad place

I enjoyed the computer animation deconstructions of the fake world in the last episode.

idk i think sooner rather than later the show will start playing it straight. the most recent episode proved that the true core of the show is the relationships between the characters. the good place doesn't need constant twists to keep afloat.

all the interviews i've seen with michael schur seems to show that he is aware of the "too many twists" problem and that the true goings-on will be less obfuscated

At this point it's hard to picture a version of the show that's not always writing itself out of corners and reinventing itself. I love it but maybe it would benefit by not running for too many seasons?

There's no God in the show - it's a secular cartoon idea of the afterlife. Which is fine. I was just thinking about this because the only other person I know who watches it was interrogating me about what religions believe, which is the wrong approach.

I hope they keep the bad place simple - it's the kind of thing that can go very wrong with bad special effects.

was this on last week? my dvr didn't record it and I didn't see it on demand either.

all of you are having a fabulous discussion, but hey that bit with eleanor roasting tahani lol

lol

also: Jason’s favorite versions: 69...420....

I like how Eleanor gave him props for that.

i lol'd at that and felt like a child

i loled at that bcz i *am* a child :D

In defense of what I said about Chidi's inexplicable approach to teaching Eleanor--

His indecision is irrelevant. He's only shown to be indecisive between comparably reasonable options. Teaching Eleanor about moral philosophies that bear little resemblance to the one that she's going to be judged by is not reasonable at all, and a moral philosophy professor would know that.

The ideas that the afterlife might have the wrong moral standards, and that there could be value in human philosophy in any case, are also irrelevant to what I'm saying. Chidi isn't teaching Eleanor because he thinks human moral philosophy contains truths that the afterlife doesn't recognize, or because he thinks it's valuable in itself. He's trying to save her from hell. That means figuring out how Eleanor can be good by the standard of the afterlife, which Chidi himself says operates on an "infallible formula". But he goes about this in a way that makes no sense for his character.

They could have fixed most of this very easily, just by (1) having the Good Place orientation video NOT say that people are assigned on the basis of the quantifiable goodness and badness of their actions, but instead be more vague about it, and (2) having some character ask Michael or Janet to clarify how these assessments are made, and be told that this is one of the things (along with what goes on the Bad Place) that can't be revealed. That would leave Chidi to have to guess, and then it would make sense that he tries to cover his bases by teaching Eleanor about a bunch of different approaches to ethics.*

Sund4r otm. Also, in that first introduction video, Michael claims that when someone ran a red light at night, even if nobody noticed, it gave them minus points. Or something like that. The point is: The points seem more deontological in nature.

― Frederik B, Tuesday, January 16, 2018 4:36 AM (fourteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

A moral system where the value of every action is determined entirely by the numerical amount of goodness or badness that it contributes to the world is consequentialist, and not deontological. This is true even if the system says that breaking rules is bad.

*This still wouldn't explain why he has Eleanor learn about Hume on personal identity, nor why he would assign the entire Treatise of Human Nature.

It's not consequentialist, though, since it doesn't seem to take into account the consequences of their actions. Running a red light brings an abstract amount of good or bad into the world, no matter the circumstances. That is not consequentialism.

The orientation video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut0ai4s4mjU

Consequentialism says that the value of an action is determined by its consequences. The orientation video says that the moral value of every action is determined by the amount of good or bad that goes into the universe as a result. That seems consequentialist to me.

Deontological theories are the ones that set absolute prohibitions on performing or abstaining from certain actions, irrespective of consequences. Assigning moral point values to actions is a non-deontological move.

Yes, the value of an action should be determined by it's consequences, meaning the same action could be morally right or wrong, depending on the circumstances. That is not the case in the Good Place, meaning the system is in effect deontological.

The whole thing is of course vague, because moral philosophy is fundamentally bogus, but the system is not straightforwardly consequentialist.

you're fundamentally bogus

The video doesn't say anything about right or wrong action. It only talks about evaluating actions in terms of amounts of good and bad. It also doesn't say that any given action or type of action always carries the same value, although that would be consistent with a form of consequentialism too.

One thing the video does tells its viewers unequivocally is that deontological views of morality are all wrong.

y'all can't be sure if michael used a real good place orientation video for the neighborhood or if he made a fake one

That doesn't matter, the point is that Chidi and Eleanor believed it.

The video doesn't say anything about right or wrong action. It only talks about evaluating actions in terms of amounts of good and bad. It also doesn't say that any given action or type of action always carries the same value, although that would be consistent with a form of consequentialism too.

One thing the video does tells its viewers unequivocally is that deontological views of morality are all wrong.

― JRN, 17. januar 2018 02:54 (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It says that the woman got points for doing the same thing 1800 times, so yeah, it says it's always the same.

Tbf, Michael's example in the video = pulling into a breakdown lane when there IS traffic and thinking "no one's watching" (meaning, I think, that no police officer is watching), which is a little different from running a red light in the middle of the night when no one else is on the road. Idk how exactly it would map onto consequentialism vs deontology, though.

(although I think I have a better idea of what those words mean now)

*kills self*

It says that the woman got points for doing the same thing 1800 times, so yeah, it says it's always the same.

― Frederik B, Tuesday, January 16, 2018 8:20 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The video does not say that that action, or any other, has the same value every time it's done. It does show things like "Rescued pit bull(x16): 422,561" or whatever, but that doesn't mean that all 16 of those were equally good. It could just mean she did it 16 times and that was the cumulative value. But again, either way, the message of the video would still be consistent with consequentialism and inconsistent with deontology.

Where does everyone stand on the net karmic value of sandwiches?

Worth less than 0.5% of the value of:

Began to compose a social media post on the death of David Bowie and then thought, "the world doesn't need to hear my thoughts on David Bowie".

i have high hopes for their trip through the bad place! they can really go nuts.

I like this show a lot but I don't want to think about it that hard

otm, feel that way about a lot of shows tbh

CO
SIGN

can we put that on the door plz

agree! i like this show too much to read about it

feel like this show really stands out for its cheerful rigorous vibe, like the opposite of the documentaryish cringe style

yep

scumbag borderline sociopath with a heart of vaguely normal is the new likable

"i'm luggage"

this ep was so good

not so bothered with the philosophy, as long as this show brings the laughs idgaf

"Heya, pass a NASCAR ketchup."

jortles!!!

Ha! I just finished that scene.

lol'd at Pirates of the Caribbean 6, Playing EVERYWHERE FOREVER

dammit I came here just to type "jortles!!!" and was beaten to it

That was a solid ep but the Chidi stuff was a bit much, like the ethics professor has never thought about the “is it ok to lie to nazis?” moral non-dilemma?

What I got was that he had thought about it and arrived at the Kantian position that lying is never OK. Now, as with the trolley problem episode, he was faced with the actual situation in 'real life' and his commitment to the principle was being challenged.

^^^

nobody's mentioned how chidi was on high maintenace as the bug out guy?

eleanor is super fine in her 50s getup

I'm so proud of Good Janet. A quick study.

Also, I'm fucking elated anytime I get to see Maya Rudolph just *go* with a character.

Maya Rudolph is so underused it must be because SHE doesn’t want to work

butterface

ya basic! it’s a human insult. it’s devastating. you’re devastated right now

OMG JANET

maya rudolph killed it

Was she the judge lady? I found her incredibly annoying.

eleanor is super fine in her 50s getup

― lag∞n,

This is true.

Was she the judge lady? I found her incredibly annoying.

I gasped

this show is so fantastic

pic.twitter.com/EglIFOaXlZ

— no context the good place (@nocontexttgp) January 27, 2018

good janet now knowing how to also be bad janet is v exciting

Was she the judge lady? I found her incredibly annoying.

If I were gonna start a fan club for a famous person, it very well could be Maya Rudolph.

I love the trajectory of the show.

Every Jason gag is about him being the stupidest person in history: "Oh, eggs, I love those things, they are so funny!" (sits on egg and cracks it and laughs gleefully) "But I still haven't made a chicken yet." (makes sad face, then confused face). "Maybe chickens don't come from eggs, maybe eggs come from chickens? (makes dopey face) Why are birds are so confusing?!"

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 6 January 2018 02:03 (three weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm super late catching up with the thread but this is an excellent jason gag

feel suspiciously like one of the things they might do for next season is shuffle up personalities or otherwise run counter to form? Like I could see some sort of bit where Jason stops being a doofus and "unlocks his brain's potential" or somesuch.

I'd wager they meet the real jianyu in the good place who turns out to behave almost exactly like jason.

one complaint about the new season is that now all the characters 'traits' have been established 70% of the jokes are about the traits. chidi's always being indecisive, tahani is always name dropping etc.

kinda why i think they might do some kinda freaky-friday shit or otherwise stir the pot. if they leave that for another season, it's gonna cloy.

tbf this is a criticism that could be leveled at any given Mike Schur show (nb: I like all of the Mike Schur shows)

*looks directly into camera, raises eyebrows and smirks slightly*

the lack of growth from jason, chidi and tahani was a big part of the last episode so i think that's on the writers' radar for sure

btw, Chidi did pick the wrong hat. Grey all the way.

chidi needs to shape up cmon man just pick a hat

I think picking a hat after 82m is actually a big step for him.

agree

not only does he take an extraordinarily long time to make an arbitrary choice but he is so lacking in self-awareness that he doesn't realize his indecisiveness is what is being tested

tahani has shown growth (not that i am tired of the name-dropping jokes)

eleanor (+ tahani imo to a lesser extent) showed dramatic personal growth by comparison. jason may not be smart enough to grow v much tbh he seems v childlike.

it'll be interesting to see what they try to do w/ him. how does he develop a kind of mindfulness + maturity w/out losing what makes the character work.

i found this clip v delightful

Conan O’Brien has always been "very nice and very Conany" to @DarcyCarden https://t.co/GwnFTaDlte pic.twitter.com/DFnUNqTYsQ

— Splitsider (@Splitsider) January 30, 2018

And this interview with Jameela Jamil is so good
I love that she deliberately set out to make Tahani a specifically bitchy Londoner
Her appearance on The Great British Baking Show charity ep is all-time. She was a beautiful trainwreck
http://www.vulture.com/2018/01/the-good-place-jameela-jamil-nearly-killed-mary-berry.html

maya rudolph rules school

don't have access to a tv or any streamings that i'm on but sooo excited to binge this soon

direct reference to LOST in that last episode

omg i love darcy carden so much

"do you wanna chew on my assortment of brownies that i will be bringing to Lauren's baby shower" lol

Ted Danson behind a bar again

yeah, that was a nice touch.

so is the hope that despite erasing all the moral progress they made, they've transformed their (??) souls (??) enough that now placed back into their original milieu they'll find their way to being better people? bc if becoming moral rests on the work you do on yourself it seems to me like having all that work erased would put them at no particular advantage when returned to earth. or i guess they were just hoping that having their lives saved would itself put them on a path of righteousness? i think i kinda prefer the initial explanation (that something intrinsic about them has changed bc of their afterlife experiences) than this one.

Yes

Also, "One of?"

Yeah, I'll watch anything with KB and a few lols but this is a weird direction for the show to go.

It seemed to me that Michael was arguing that if they had just had someone or something give them a little “push” toward being more moral beings that maybe they would have led better lives.

I don’t know if push=life saved for all of them...

It ends when we realize that all demons are as bad at torture as Ted Danson, and the bad place isn't that bad after all.

eleanor called someone a jagoff, which i appreciate even though she's not supposed to be from pittsburgh

It's just a place where everybody knows your name. (because they are demons)
and they're always glad you came. (because they want to torture you)

Shotgunning both seasons this weekend.

Just got to the point where they make an Edvard Munch joke, and yeah, this show is good

Two things I reallyenjoy from the show are the hyperspecificity of Florida hijinx that Jason re-tells and Janet switching to therapist mode with extensive therapist mannerisms

Watching this week-to-week is gunna be torture.

Also, anyone else note that Eleanor’s goal at the end of each season after getting blanked was identitical? She uses technological constructs both times to “find Chidi.”

having just finished S02 I am slowly working through this thread and can I just say

jianyu is/was a terrible actor for instance.

― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Saturday, September 30, 2017 10:23 PM (five months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is the rongest rong that evr was ronged

D’Arcy Carden showed up on this week's Lovett or Leave It podcast. She does some acting.

Blake Bortles signed a 3 year extension fwiw

ngl, i was cheering for the jags to make/win the super bowl entirely due to wanting to see how jason would react on this show in season 3

K Bell <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
so happy that she has been owning TV for years

and T Danson KILLS IT on this show, i literally had no idea he was so funny (my bad.)

If that means you've never watched Cheers, we're finding that the early episodes hold up p well.

i was watching an old Cheers and i was amazed at the amount of dialogue. the best episodes are good little plays.

Shelley Long deserved a better post-Cheers career.

Agreed with all of this Cheers talk. The first 2-3 seasons are more theater than sitcom.

I wish Cheers was on netflix! A funny thing that we do since we are now old and tired, is when I don't want to go to bed early I will say "But Cheers* isn't even on yet!" or "But Empty Nest* isn't over yet!"
*insert whatever random show that came on during that timeslot.

cheers is totally on american netflix.

Gah, I just searched on mine and it isn't. So annoying.

cheers is fantastic

i know british people love it but frasier kinda curdles my blood. i tried really hard to like it when it was first on but i ended up hating being stuck in a room with them. they really wanted to be drawing room brilliant but it turned insufferable to me. that dad in the chair more of a demon than any eugene o'neill character. and his little dog too. felt so bad for any woman on that show.

I've seen every episode of Cheers. I never could make it through any episode of Frasier. I never understood how that character was the spin off.

I had no idea we liked Fraiser more than the yanks. I'm lukewarm on it myself.

that dad in the chair more of a demon than any eugene o'nell character. and his little dog too

https://keyassets-p2.timeincuk.net/wp/prod/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/2015/04/Eddie-crane.png

frasier makes the bbc top ten:

http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2013/03/10-american-tv-shows-that-were-huge-in-britain

perhaps frasier has endured in the uk and colonies because class interplay has historically been a cornerstone of british light entertainment. the us rarely produces anything along class lines that resonates this well.

and i'm not talking the diff'rent strokes/fresh prince/silver spoons "those ones are rich and those ones are poor", i'm talking the specific tension derived from aspirationals breaking away from their working class roots and trying to wodge themselves into the real upper classes (hyacinth, basil fawlty)

yeah, i mean it could almost be a bbc show really.

otm

The stuff about class in Cheers seems p real to me now that I live in the approximate Greater Boston Area. I don't know what stratum of Pacific Northwest society Frasier and Niles would even be aspiring to; if anything, the joke seems to be that they don't know themselves?

yeah, iirc in cheers frasier started as a proper posh snob and sort of became the british-aspirational type post-diane, by the time he got his own show his working class roots had become the whole point

and T Danson KILLS IT on this show, i literally had no idea he was so funny (my bad.

He was great in Bored to Death too

He shows up in season 2 of Fargo! Which I am currently watching.

by all accounts he’s a really nice guy too, which must factor into the amount of work he’s been getting

He's very much channeling Matt Smith in Doctor Who, which is a good thing in my book

He was excellent on HBO’s Bored to Death. He’s been consistently working since ... forever? He and Steenburgen just seem like great, super professional across.