Wes Anderson's - Isle of Dogs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt__kig8PVU

oh this looks great! been waiting for him to follow up FMF properly. he should just do animation

or, he should do MORE animation

looking forward to this

i keep thinking he should have directed an adaptation of Murder on the Orient Express

in a world... where all dogs are male

This looks great. I loved FMF and indeed an orient express/agatha christie piece adaptation would be nice.
Or a remake of the cartoon with animals "around the world in 80 days" !

loads of actresses billed, I'm sure we'll have a decent quotient of female dogs

There's a female dog in the trailer!

That said all the main characters in his movies are males. I guess because there's a strong autobiographic element in his work.

Anyway, this is great. I think I'd be OK with him not just making but remaking all of his films as stop animation.

There's a token female dog in the trailer!

fixed!

and a girl protagonist who apparently exists to idolise the boy. ok it's just a trailer, i'll wait.

fixed!

Maybe they're all fixed.

excited for all the thinkpieces to come from this

Looked/sounded great on the big screen this weekend before Logan Lucky.

i guess i'm just going to go out there and say i can't wait to watch these dogs. i have slowly morphed into one of those weird dog people

hahaha a friend showed me this trailer and I was like, "wtf is this, the new Wes Anderson movie?"

it looks good though

Or a remake of the cartoon with animals "around the world in 80 days" !

― AlXTC from Paris, Monday, 25 September 2017 13:14 (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes!

That said all the main characters in his movies are males

"all" is a huge overstatement

"huge" is a huge overstatement

Bitch bitch bitch

^clever

also a possibly accurate prediction of how many will have speaking roles

This looks like it will be great but what a corny pun of a title

Err what's the pun ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Dogs

“I love dogs”

xpost

"isle of dogs"/"I love dogs"

iirc there was a long Vic & Bob routine about it in the Smell era.

see also Spinal Tap performing at a blues/jazz (or was it a jazz/blues?) festival on the Isle of Lucy.

Ahah obviously ! sorry it totally went over my head !
I mean, there's an island AND dogs on it...

http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/watch-a-clip-from-the-wes-anderson-movie-isle-of-dogs.html

Looked pretty, and the plot seems fun. I’ll definitely see it.

But a quirky American filmmaker making a film about Japanese trash dogs voiced by white actors seems incredibly tone-deaf and blatantly appropriative for 2018.

And yeah, I know I’m a buzzkill and that I’m probably watching movies wrong. But fuck Wes Anderson and his “those wacky Orientals” shit.

What would Edward Said say?

hey don't forget the blatant sexism.

- Edward Said

It's good. And the dogs aren't the problem, it's very clear that they speak a different dog-language than Japanese which is translated into English. Quite a bit Orientalism, though, to say the least. A looooot of woodcut imagery and haiku poetry.

Does it fetishize Japanese culture, appropriate it, or is it just a homage/appreciation?

Hard to say, really. And it's probably not for me to say? But at times it's quite overwhelming the level of detail that goes into it, the backgrounds are at times 'inky' like in scroll painting, and there's a whole subplot that seems inspired by the student demonstrations in the sixties. It's not oversexualized schoolgirls and pokemon, it's obviously sincerely appreciative. But still. A few things irks me. But again, not for me to say.

I would have preferred Isle of Bunnies, but this looks fun.

feels like this has been about to come out for fucking ever now, really tired of seeing the trailers for it, get it out already

I like doggies, but a theater full of 'em, no. (SF's Roxie)

Monday’s event was conceived by Andrea Bertolini, a senior account executive with Allied Integrated Marketing, which is publicizing “Isle of Dogs.” The stop-motion film, opening nationwide on Friday, is set in the fictional Japanese city of Megasaki, where all the dogs have been banished to a dump called Trash Island. Ms. Bertolini said she knew as soon as she saw the trailer that she wanted to hold a dog-friendly screening.
“I thought, ‘Who would be amenable?’ A lot of chain theaters probably would have said, ‘Have a nice day,’” Ms. Bertolini said. (There are also dog-friendly screenings scheduled this weekend in British theaters.)

But the people at the Roxie Theater were excited about the idea — and they had experience. For the last two years, the New York Dog Film Festival has traveled to the theater, which has welcomed canine customers alongside their humans.

“We love dogs,” Ms. Fondevila said. “We had no doubts.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/20/movies/isle-of-dogs.html

the vulture promo coverage is all great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOKzXQdA4Nw

the blue eyed dogs in trailers thing is bugging me, it's jolting to me in the way that blue eyed dogs SHOULD jolt because, the hell is that? the eyes generally, in which the whites are almost anthropomorphically visible, is weird too. Anyway, this is a movie I'm likely to be enjoy as an Anderson and dog liker, but there are things going on (obv the Japanese signalling all over the place) I just don't know how to parse without at least seeing the movie.

Uk premiere at canary wharf cineworld or gtfo

this is a masterpiece and fuiud

I do not like doggies, but I did enjoy this movie, which isn't really about them, albeit not as much as I loved its feline prologue. It's not a masterpiece or his best, but a good one. For all the talk of the Kurosawa references, two or three of which I caught, I had more fun noting the Hitchcock ones.

...among others

For a film featuring dogs, a curious lack of butt-sniffing.

fox is his best movie in over a decade so i have p high hopes for this

if nothing else, this is a masterpiece of visual style and screen-as-tableau. yeah it's always been his thing but this was some new-heights shit on both a conceptual and technical level

this was a symphony of stop-motion animation and i feel genuinely glad to have borne witness to it. around the bones of a heartwarming (and successfully political) indie comedy-drama was draped an amazing spectacle

it's art goddammit

you had me at fuiud

I've been perplexed with WA fandom for 20 years. I know he's working out his compulsions, and I've long ago learned I don't share them. I hope it does well, so that I might have another Svankmajer feature, or even another Duke Johnson/Charlie Kaufman joint.

I really liked this. I found it darker and more melancholic than I was expecting. The boring cultural appropriation gang are wrong too; the film treats Japanese culture with a lot of sensitivity and respect imo

If this is as good as Fox it'll do for me. I'm not sure I give much of a fuck about accusations of cultural appropriation when it involves a wealthy industrialised first world country, that is an openly monocultural and strictly anti-immigration one.

I was annoyed at the appropriation of Europe in Grand Budapest Hotel, so I don't think that argument works for me :)

I hate the trailers for this that are running on TV, they're really putting me off this film, the one at the top of the this thread is much better. Either way, I don't like Wes Anderson films. Plus that's a mediocre West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band track he's picked.

deciding to say fuck it and embrace wes anderson has helped my enjoyment of contemporary culture significantly

Conversely, I'm pretty sure I would feel a lot better if I just said 'fuck him' and stopped caring.

Wish this was playing now at a theater near me, but I guess it's only for cityfolk for the first month. Judging by where its playing in the DC area, it's not like its only at small art theaters or something. Just not playing anywhere suburban.

I quite liked this but thought it was a weird decision to have no subtitles on the uninterpreted Japanese sections. Why present Japanese as if it doesn't matter what they're saying? I understand when they do this in films like Argo where the lack of comprehensibility is supposed to reflect the protagonists' POV, but that doesn't apply here, so it irked me.

Yeah I wonder. I guess part of the effect was that the viewer is not meant to have all of the information, but thinking back I guess there wasn't anything said in Japanese that would have necessarily spoiled anything either. Hard to say. My feeling is that Wes thought it would be more fun to make non Japanese speaking viewers to rely on context clues to get the gist of it (when it wasn't explicitly being translated).

Sorry for typos I'm terrible at typing on my phone

The main reason is because the dogs don't understand it, and we watch a lot of the film through their viewpoint. It does create problems, though, mostly through Tracy, who is necessary to explain what is going on, but becomes an unnecessary white savior in the film.

Didn't think the movie was as racist as I was led to believe, but there are some things that are incredibly tone-deaf: naming the kid "Atari" (wtf?), "Yoko Ono-San," basically all the cliche Japanese characters. There is no reason that it needed to be set in Japan. He should've set it in America, I think it's a huge missed opportunity to talk about racism and classism and oppression here. I know Anderson has no interest in anything other than burrowing into and redecorating his dollhouse, but if he really intended this as an "homage to Japanese cinema," he fucked up. it's all superficial, totally pointless beyond Japanese aesthetics. the animation is stunning though. I also think he squandered a killer ensemble cast, most of the movie is just Bryan Cranston and Greta Gerwig.

sounds like you want a different movie to the one he offered. try watching it on its own terms

pretty sure he has Yoko Ono in the movie for no other reason than he really likes Yoko Ono

I didn't want anything from this movie. I loved Fantastic Mr. Fox, and I'm certainly not "infuriated" by the shallow "exotic tourism" of the movie, but it is glaring and unnecessary and very tone deaf in 2018.

"try watching it on its own terms" what if its terms are bad

we have known something about this Texan for a couple years now

https://uproxx.com/tv/wes-anderson-made-really-really-awkward-jokes-about-hfpa-members-names/

what's that meant to mean

it means hes a racist

lol

isle of dogs is extremely good in its politics imo - it feels tailored for this moment and very much on the side of the light

He’s a dork who thinks “Detlef” is funny (it is) so he writes movies with characters named “Major Domo” and “Madame Céline Villeneuve Desgoffe und Taxis”

oh cool a pynchon reference

maybe the wrong anderson took on pynchon

stop-motion mason & dixon on my desk by 2035, wes

i can just picture the mechanical duck

the chinese fable

"I think it's a huge missed opportunity to talk about racism and classism and oppression here"

Or maybe that's exactly what the movie's about it and sailed right over your head.

everything you think sails over everybody's head, pegasus

http://ew.com/movies/2018/03/22/wes-anderson-japan-isle-of-dogs/

Does the Japanese tint have any bearing on the story? Or it just window dressing?

why set anything anywhere

anyway the bearing it has is as already stated WA's love and regard for japanese cinema

What, anime?

Racism and anime in a neat package, wonder who among us is up for that?

this movie will be huge in japan. that's my prediction.

I wonder if they'll subtitle Tracy or just let Japanese audiences work out the gist of it for themselves.

http://www.vulture.com/2018/03/what-its-like-to-watch-isle-of-dogs-as-a-japanese-speaker.html

Just took Han to see this, good fun, subtitles not needed when not used, why not subtitle Charlie Brown's teacher and the Clangers while we're on?

ty

that article is nicely balanced

the dogs speak english, which i guess stands in for the fact that dog language is different, but in that case why do they appear to understand english commands like "sit" when spoken by japanese people? they crack a couple of jokes about not understanding the japanese people.. when it's like.. you guys all grew up in japan with japanese masters?

visually extremely bleak on trash island, pretty awful vibe accomplished, well done. sick to the back teeth of infantalized retro-futurism though. oh look the boy and his homemade rocketship. let's break out the ukuleles

plot, script, tone of this ultimately felt pretty run-of-the-mill pixar to me actually

oh i guess when the japanese people say "sit" it's as if they're using the japanese word for "sit", which is something the dogs understand

got it, got it

speaking of getting things a bit late i finally just got the pun of the title, my lord i am slow

Aesthetically, this is stunning (I wish WA only made animated films - it's perfect for what he does, and the control he exerts over his stuff), I found it dissapointing that its almost like Japan Limited, #2 in WA's Asian odysseys. All the Japanese elements are almost incidental, it's just another film about westerners in foreign lands (this time, Americans interned by the Japanese - and yes I know they're dogs but as the clear separation between dogs and humans is that one group are English speaking Americans and the other are Japanese, I have no other conclusion to draw), complete with that Tracy character to save the day. Had it been set on Staten Island, its allegories would've been clearer but setting it in Japan I guess gave WA a chance to recreate stuff he's watched on Criterion DVDs. Its just that it brings a lot of cultural baggage I don't think WA knows what to do with (seeing those cutesy mushroom clouds appear from time to time was a bit weird), even if he has a good asthetic handle on the kind of Japan most westerners/tourists like to see it as (if ever you needed a film as an example of the affection/condescension Japan seemes to inspire in many westerners, this might be it). And it does look brillant, I would definitely watch it again, I just didnt get why the Japanese characters were not subtitled or dubbed even. To be kind, I'd say he didnt want subtitles interfering with his images. Less kindly I'd suggest there is something wrong that he didn't think viewers would want or NEED to know what key Japanese characters are saying. That was seriously frustrating and bizarre. That get out clause he printed at the beginning was a major cop out. He probably thought there was something funny about it.

if he's serious about the no-subtitles-as-alienation technique, I would hope that when it gets released in Japan, the dogs are not subtitled, or the Japanese characters we in the US/UK don't get to see subtitled are silenced, or...

"this time, Americans interned by the Japanese"

Precisely. And at the present moment.

"Its just that it brings a lot of cultural baggage I don't think WA knows what to do with (seeing those cutesy mushroom clouds appear from time to time was a bit weird)"
"I just didnt get why the Japanese characters were not subtitled or dubbed even"

Is the cultural baggage not essentially a compendium of an ugly American's limited/stereotypical view of Japanese culture? Is the refusal to subtitle/dub not a way of reinforcing the unfamiliarity of the overlords? Do you really believe both were unintentional?

"Had it been set on Staten Island, its allegories would've been clearer but setting it in Japan I guess gave WA a chance to recreate stuff he's watched on Criterion DVDs.

Is that a Ghost Dog reference? Rather snarky as regarding someone there's reason to believe may well have seen more Japanese films than most (and in theatres). Has cyclic violence not been a recurring theme in the work of the principal filmmaker WA cited as influence on this one, who went out warning of nuclear holocaust?

I don't recall a lot of or as much cultural appropriation panic about all the Lubitsch (like Wilder, a Middle European Jew who came to American between the wars) references last time.

(or as regards western influences on Kurosawa, or The Magnificent Seven or Star Wars or...)

"He should've set it in America"

lol?

"There is no reason that it needed to be set in Japan."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/was-wes-andersons-latest-film-inspired-by-japans-real-isles-animals-1084685

There’s a rumour that ‘Isle of Dogs’ was inspired by you seeing road signs in London to the real Isle of Dogs. Is that true?

‘It is true but I had totally forgotten it! Our producer Jeremy Dawson, who also worked on “Fantastic Mr Fox”, did an interview and told somebody [that story]. That’s when I realised that the beginning of this whole movie was because of me seeing the Isle of Dogs sign– I didn’t even know what Isle of Dogs was. I was just imagining what it could be.’

Have you any clue what this original image of dogs on a trash island is rooted in?

'I think of things I liked when I was a kid. I loved Oscar the Grouch on Sesame Street. I loved this TV show they had in America called Fat Albert where they had a clubhouse on a garbage dump. I always loved this TV show called Sanford and Son about this junk dealer in America. That setting always interested me: garbage. So maybe it comes out of that, maybe it’s a childhood thing, but really in terms of where the idea comes from really I have no idea.'

Futuristic comedy thriller “Isle of Dogs” is influenced by everything from Kurosawa to ukiyo-e. Coppola and Anderson had long wanted to craft a story about a pack of abandoned dogs on a garbage dump and came up with this script “from scratch together,” Anderson wrote in an email. “And we had to invent an imaginary city and an imaginary government and several imaginary diseases, and we had a lot of fun concocting and shaping and sculpting it together.”

(Screenwriter Anderson’s full list of “story collaborators” includes Coppola, Jason Schwartzman, and Kunichi Nomura.)

The script took off when they merged the dog story that could have taken place anywhere with a fantasy version of Japan set 20 years in the future. So they created an allegorical political fable — adding “new inspirations from real life,” said Anderson at Berlin

http://www.indiewire.com/2018/03/isle-of-dogs-wes-anderson-roman-coppola-1201937301/

"Is the cultural baggage not essentially a compendium of an ugly American's limited/stereotypical view of Japanese culture? Is the refusal to subtitle/dub not a way of reinforcing the unfamiliarity of the overlords? Do you really believe both were unintentional?"

i dont believe it was unintentional, ofc not. but i dont have to like this particular aspect of the film or find it problem-free because of that.

"I don't recall a lot of or as much cultural appropriation panic about all the Lubitsch (like Wilder, a Middle European Jew who came to American between the wars) references last time."

theres no 'CA panic' about WA borrowing from kurosawa or any other one filmmaker, its more about how hes used the japanese influence and setting or how hes treated/used the japanese characters. its not using japan or featuring japanese characters in itself thats a problem.

peter bradshaw in the guardian review has this -
"Anderson is arguably no more or less insensitive or chauvinist here than in his treatment of central European culture in The Grand Budapest Hotel or indeed dear old Blighty in Fantastic Mr Fox. Why should our progressive opinion be nettled now? Why should Japanese culture be assigned the status of underdog?"

sure. its just that there's a different history there. and a different history of western representation that weighs into it. no one is saying WA doesnt (or CANT, for that matter) like old (and for a film set a few decades ahead, he's no great futurist) japanese things, or that he doesnt depict them in imaginative, beautiful ways, but the film does other things with japanese culture too. that is all. and people are allowed to comment on that.

i wonder if this film might be a tipping point on all the current debates around cultural appropriation etc. or maybe its just because its japan/east asia. and people think it doesnt matter that much. because asian representation is not an issue we are as familiar with as we are with black representation on screen.

I think it certainly is of this moment in history that people are taking notice and writing pieces like the vulture one above. After all, nobody blinked an eye when the kid from Texas made a movie about a fucked up family of New York City Jews, and only cast Ben Stiller in it, who is only half on his dad’s side.

The Tenenbaums are actually "three-quarters Mick Catholic" according to Royal

Oh and Gwyneth Paltrow's father is also Jewish

Appropriation is absolutely central to Anderson's films, and to his characters. Everyone of them lives through styles, details, systems. It's good to have the conversation, and it has been helped tremendously by great pieces from Japanese-American writers. Still, I do feel a bit uncomfortable about the idea that THIS FILM, THIS TIME, it's bad. It's not really about good or bad, it's about a method from the director, and the effects it has on the material he uses.

xp I never put together until now that that’s probably a joke about Stiller.

It's not that it's only this time it's bad. It's more that it's more on people's minds now.

WA is a tricky person to talk about as he can be polarising so it becomes a thing where anyone questioning IOD has to come up against 'ah that's just what he always does... get over it' rather than 'why does he do this?' Then it becomes an aesthetic issue. And if you have an issue with IOD then it's not justified, it's just because this great auteur WA is not for you. Basically: 'stop complaining'.

A director 'not being for you' IS a very legitimate issue, and it's always worth discussing who a director is for, and why. What is it people see in WA? Why does anyone like the superfluous and shallow depiction of Mitteleuropa in The Grand Budapest, for example? Or think the kitchy mysticism of The Darjeeling Limited is touching? That's the discussion I want to have, one that critiques the entirety of WA's filmography. I do feel a bit like Bradshaw, that Japanese culture is uncritically being assigned an 'underdog' status from some commentators, and that move should also be critiqued. The whole thing about interment, and the history of internment, that seems to gloss over a whole lot of Japanese history from 30s and 40s, for example.

It's not a contest about who gets to be an underdog and who doesn't. I question japanese representation the same way many would question Russian representation (if we're talking debatable 'underdogs').

I only watch his movies as they are visually amazing. And occasionally he gets some actual feeling despite all his fussiness like Ralph Fiennes in GBH who gave that film some sort of basis in reality.

Oh, lol, majorly disagree on Fiennes in GBH, but I agree in general that WA is best when there's real feelings in his work. Moonrise Kingdom is the one that works for me, and I suspect that I find most of his characters fairly infantile, so it works better when the main characters are actual kids.

He should only do animated movies about kids.

Or animals. No adult humans, definitely.

all his movies are kind of like children's books. from the 50s. for twee adults.

I'd like to see him do a silent animated movie about kids and animals.

they do look cool though. don't get me wrong.

Extremely cool. I wonder how much he would charge for home decorating.

which reminds me, i need to watch the 2nd season of the lemony snicket series on netflix with my kid.

you can just blame roald dahl for most stuff like this.

i'll bet wes owns every copy of Nest Magazine. bound in vintage calfskin.

xp I never put together until now that that’s probably a joke about Stiller.

Salinger's Glass family are also half Jewish/half Irish

Seymour Cassel is of Jewish/Irish ancestry

Isn't the central problem of appropriation that the voice that is stolen can't express itself? i.e Black Americans inventing things appropriated by white people who then get all the benefits and credits? In which case Japan, with its ginormous cultural production, can't really be a victims per se.

I'd sort of assumed it was inspired by Dog Island, Florida, subject of japing thedogisland.com web site

The island and its two neighbors were discovered by the French in 1536 and named the Dog Islands, because 1) wild dogs were found on them; 2) the islands resemble a crouched dog, or 3) the early ships put their common sailors - known as dogs - on the islands before docking on the mainland so they could not jump ship.

The original version of the site played on the western revulsion of Asian dog-eating practices, and its creators deliberately used names identical to those of persons and companies in China who process dogs for human consumption. For example, the “Dawn
Fine Bred Dog Center” of which Dog Island was supposedly a subsidiary, the city of Pexian, and the name “Han Fei” were all references to the Dawn Fine Bred Meat Dog Center, a commercial operation in China where dogs were raised for meat.

"Isn't the central problem of appropriation that the voice that is stolen can't express itself? i.e Black Americans inventing things appropriated by white people who then get all the benefits and credits? In which case Japan, with its ginormous cultural production, can't really be a victims per se."

most people are not levelling your basic accusation of CA at this film. but if you think that is the main criteria for it, then yes, the film qualifies as the main japanese character is literally rendered mute to non japanese speakers.

i am interested though in who decides how a people or nation qualifies as an 'underdog' and who gets to decide this status.

Me too. If anyone has any links to where this question is addressed I'd be up for reading around it.

love his bar at the Prada Foundation:

https://moovemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Bar-Luce-en-la-Fundacion-Prada-de-Milan-decorado-por-wes-anderson-director-de-cine-colores-pastel-retro-2-e1466164939435.jpg

most people are not levelling your basic accusation of CA at this film. but if you think that is the main criteria for it, then yes, the film qualifies as the main japanese character is literally rendered mute to non japanese speakers.

i am interested though in who decides how a people or nation qualifies as an 'underdog' and who gets to decide this status.

― StillAdvance, Wednesday, April 4, 2018 7:22 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm seeing lots of accusation of CA on the web (specifically on twitter/ some reviews).

What I meant by silent is that Japan as a national culture is a giant, standing on its own, capable of creating and controlling its image. Every stat I looked and they were in top 10 in exporting cultural goods, raking billions in the process. Nothing is being stolen from them in Isle of Dogs.

WA just picked the most shallow/superficial aspects of Japanese culture for this movie though, it's just really boring and jarring more than offensive, tho i'm not in a position to say

Yeah, the salient issue of CA in Wes Anderson isn't simply THAT the voice of the appropriated culture is lost. Rather, it's the issue of WHY and HOW the appropriated culture is flattened/reduced to a set of mean stereotypes/set-dressings. There's nothing inherently wrong w/ eating ramen at a place owned by wealthy white Americans, but it's a weird move when you're doing it because you prefer the layout of the interior design to the Japanese-owned ramen joint next door.

avatar: the last airbender might be my favorite fake japanese thing of all time. or fake asian thing. since its a blend of japanese/chinese art.

talking about the show, obviously. not the abomination of a movie.

“Yeah, the salient issue of CA in Wes Anderson isn't simply THAT the voice of the appropriated culture is lost. Rather, it's the issue of WHY and HOW the appropriated culture is flattened/reduced to a set of mean stereotypes/set-dressings. There's nothing inherently wrong w/ eating ramen at a place owned by wealthy white Americans, but it's a weird move when you're doing it because you prefer the layout of the interior design to the Japanese-owned ramen joint next door.”

WA, or any people, having potentially shitty taste is not a crime.

no one is suggesting that it's a crime

I am. Lock him up.

"What I meant by silent is that Japan as a national culture is a giant, standing on its own, capable of creating and controlling its image. Every stat I looked and they were in top 10 in exporting cultural goods, raking billions in the process. Nothing is being stolen from them in Isle of Dogs."

I see. In that case, may I gently suggest (to the arbiters of CA, 'underdogs', and all things related) that no one ever complain about anti-semitic depictions on screen again, as yknow, Jewish people have done pretty well, all things considered, and well, Israel is a pretty powerful, prosperous nation. Cool?

the appropriated culture is flattened/reduced to a set of mean stereotypes/set-dressings

this is unfair on this film and not what happens imo - like, did you not read about the sushi prep scene taking weeks if not months to get right? that is no mere dressing

when i read things like 'the japanese arent underdog enough', i just read it as 'i dont care what japanese ppl think'.

basically, as i already posted, asian representation just does not pique the interest of white liberals.

i wonder how it would work if WA did isle of dogs in china (which would likely increase the sense of western revulsion at asian countries attitudes towards our favourite domesticated animal) - is china 'powerful enough' now that it renders any questionable stereotyping/reductionism moot?

"this is unfair on this film and not what happens imo - like, did you not read about the sushi prep scene taking weeks if not months to get right? that is no mere dressing"

your point is about labour and technique, not what is being depicted.

itt: people who have forgotten how to enjoy cinema

i actually really enjoyed the film. i am allowed to discuss the aspects i disliked about it. i dont really care about cultural appropriation in itself, its more how it is done. more than accusations of CA, the new thing is being offended by accusations of CA as a way to shut conversations down.

literally the only thing of worth posted here on the subject was that interview with actual japanese/japanese-speaking people

QED

The Justin Chang piece is very good as well. But StillAdvance, this film is not comparable to anti-semitism, it's not in any way an anti-Japanese film. The comparison would be to something like a bible epic, that only uses Jewish history as window dressing to make a fundamentally Christian/anglo-saxon celebration. And Hollywood does tons of those without too many complains.

I'm concerned by how discussions of appropriation have shut down more interesting and fruitful discussions we could be having about the film

no ones stopping you.

xpost, i wasnt suggesting it was 'anti japanese'.

ah never mind. i cant be bothered.

we all see what we want to.

enjoy the film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQOG5BkY2Bc

imago is right. Anyone up for discussing the underwritten female dogs, and the inherent sexism in WAs filmography?

he's always been about lovingly-crafted sentimental whimsy and not much "more". I think all the problems people have with his politics in the broad sense are perfectly justifiable. Like most art, I don't enjoy his steez with pie-eyed worship, but I am a whimsical sentimentalist too

This one does have some laudable and relevant political sentiment though

Not really. And I like it a lot anyway.

yeah i agree with Fred :O

lol the female dogs.. when the first one showed up, w/radiant hair illuminated by the sun, i was like here we go

but then she disappeared for 90% of the movie

guys honestly the story to this, the jokes.. it was extremely by-the-numbers??

there's an evil mayor who hates dogs and loves cats!
can our plucky heroes beat the clock and stop the bad guys from unleashing the toxin???

you want some amazing "retro" animation check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW0jvJC2rvM

I agree that the story was basic, but the sheer craft and visual inventiveness made up for it for me. That's what makes it good-to-great for me, not any political subtext.

"Here's something completely different"

IOD has for all that I can tell a completely unprecedented approach to mise-en-scene, especially when you consider it's stop-motion. you're coming off as churlish at best

Nah, "this thing is no good because thus other thing exists" is always a solid argument. As long as you're only talking about your personal preferences.

and obviously it's great because of the visuals and the inventive ways in which information was presented, but its obvious denunciations of demagoguery and state-led bigotry were extremely direct and welcome

I hear people make the same argument for Star Wars

Sorry I don't even have an argument to have, WA makes pretty twee cuddle movies and if you get more out of them great but everything's open to more in that sense

OK I just watched Hedgehog In The Fog and here's where your argument falls down imo:

It's great. They're both great. It isn't a competition. They're both very different and very good. Thank you for showing it to me.

If you want the real enemy, look no further than the new Peter Rabbit film, which judging by the trailer seems to be a full-bore assault on taste, decency and childhood

IOD has for all that I can tell a completely unprecedented approach to mise-en-scene

What's unprecedented about it?

lots of onscreen text, lots of divided screens, lots of quick cuts...idk, just feels unlike previous stop-motion movies I've seen, feel free to counter

imago is right, imo. The camera-placement is completely unique for a stop motion film, I've never seen stuff like the dutch angles in the first scene.

It calls attention to itself as a filmic construction, in a way stop motion films usually don't. Perhaps because it takes such a large amount of work to make it at all convincingly alive that any undermining of that work seems especially counterproductive.

You've both seen Fantastic Mr Fox right?

Well, a strict definition of mise-en-scene would exclude "lots of onscreen text, lots of divided screens, lots of quick cuts"; but beyond that, all of those things are present in p much all of Godard's work, for example. Even if we're just talking about a mise-en-scene that's unprecedented for stop motion animation, some or all of those elements can be found in work by the Brothers Quay, Švankmajer, Terry Gilliam, even Ray Harryhausen. The obvious attention to detail and decorative filigree of IOD doesn't even feel unprecedented in Anderson's work, tbh.

Love FMF - felt that this presented its information in a much more breathless (Breathless?) and immersive way - demanding that you pay attention to the whole screen at once. I'll watch it again at some point and note examples

I've seen Fantastic Mr Fox several times, and if you can't see the difference then I don't know what to tell you.

If anything, the mise-en-scene of IOD reminded me a bit of David Hockney's variations on Chinese scroll painting, where multiple events are happening within the same frame, and in a horizontal, left to right direction.

Oh I know what you mean, there were bits I thought looked great even as they were reminding me of Metal Gear Solid, or Prosperous Books, or some of the stuff Ward just noted.

I agree the unique aspects are more related to camerawork and editing, and that it's of course inspired by lots of other filmmakers - that scene I wrote about is a copy from Citizen Kane, no? - but the level of control is unique, and the combination with the model work seems like the culmination of this aspect of WAs work.

Prospero's Books, fucking phone. Anyway novelty isn't a critical criterion for me

Yeah, NV, Greenaway is a good reference as well.

It's a sugary intertextual treat but that's WA in general for me

I haven't seen Prospero's Books, but late works like 'Eisenstein in Guanajuato' and 'Goltzius and the Pelican Company' tries to get the same kind of control. Greenaway is much more European, though, much more invested in creating something new out of high art, where WA is pretty pop.

It's great. They're both great. It isn't a competition.

that part was in your head - i just said if you want great retro-animation you should check it out

fwiw i don't believe both are "great" - i will remember the hedgehog in the fog for the rest of my life and despite the neat/unusual design of this movie i am not going to remember its wise-cracking dogs and their plan to stop the evil mayor much beyond next week

unless somebody reminds me of it, and then i'll probably remember a feeling of vague annoyance at ukuleles that weren't actually in it but may as well have been

oh look, it's a shuttered country club! the bygone world of wholesome elites!

this is unfair on this film and not what happens imo - like, did you not read about the sushi prep scene taking weeks if not months to get right? that is no mere dressing

― imago, Thursday, April 5, 2018 6:08 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

seriously? it doesn't matter how much time went into it

LMAO the white sushi chef who spoke in a fake Asian accent got a consulting credit on "Isle of Dogs," can't handle this, life is too on the nose sometimes https://t.co/RtHK34vaZh pic.twitter.com/siGLT2UiM8

— Serena Dai (@ssdai) April 2, 2018

Oh for people who want to see the film, I was seated rather close to the screen and i think i missed some elements, the film needs broad scanning to be fully enjoyed (or maybe I'm getting older).

I watched FMF this week after seeing IOD. It plays much closer to your normal WA film, just with animals (I think it's not nearly Roald Dahl enough to really get the material but that's a separate thread). IOD is a lot more active and 'busy' in terms of what's in the frame. It seems like an advance for him, a formal progression, if not in any other way. But then I wouldnt expect him to progress in any other way.

you mom gets busy, in terms of what's in the frame

i liked FMF a lot but it definitely does not feel like a roald dahl story in any way.

seriously? it doesn't matter how much time went into it

― flappy bird, Thursday, 5 April 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Finnegans Wake took 17 years of Joyce's life have some respect ;-)

lol

Xpizzost - my mom is actually more of a narrative than composition person. I will ask her to watch IOD and report back.

Suspect most mums are narratively inclined.

this looked nice but suffered from usual wes anderson short-comings: no character development, unearned moments of emotion, rote plot with a chase and a crazy plan that just might work etc. i found myself sort of bored and done with it by the time they left the island.

feel like he's the one director who is most guilty of the novelist's crime of writing the same novel in various different ways.

also orientalist as hell and wes anderson is cancelled obv

Ever seen a Woody Allen film?

one helluva come-on

Spoilers ahead

The thing I disliked the most was the reveal that Chief and Spot were actually brothers. Felt way too easy, and Anderson, as much I love his films, is guilty of that sometimes.

Yuri Norstein could teach Joyce a thing or two about bloody-minded commitment to a project, he's been working on his feature film The Overcoat since 1981!

Tale Of Tales is such an extraordinary, singular piece of work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ52H1YlOm4

This was dry to a fault.

Omg the sushi consultant, I remember that guy!

This thing was a beauty to look at; he's really learned how to treat these stop-motion things as if they art films. A couple of shots nodded toward Cries and Whispers.

yeah, the plot is mostly irrelevant, but the frame & the motion are just gorgeous to stare at.

Good movie but pretty much agree with everything jim in vancouver said, especially: “i found myself sort of bored and done with it by the time they left the island”. (well I did kind of like the showdown at the end). The main complaint I had leaving the movie was that the other original dogs were m.i.a. by the end of the movie.

The action and story were a lot stronger than what I had imagined coming into the movie so despite the ending losing focus on some of the characters I enjoyed myself.

And the art aspect was top notch.

I think this is easily the weakest soundtrack and score of any of his films. I’m not sure why that is, like why he/they chose to be so sparing and dull with the music in the this one, but all I’m left with is the taiko opening (mandatory?), that terrible WCPAEB track, and a whistle there that keeps being reduced to the Smoke on the Water riff in my mind. Which is funny, to me, but I don’t think it was the intent.

as WA disappointments go this was way, way less annoying than Life Aquatic or Darjeeling Limited, where I left the theater genuinely annoyed that I had been snookered somehow. This was just... not as much fun as FMF or GBH.

The stop motion special effect I’m most interested in from this one is the swirling water at the shore of the island, seen in the beginning when Spots is being conveyed from the mainland. I know how they do rivers and waterfalls (scrolling plastic wrap). I enjoyed the shredded paper dust clouds. I thought the cottonball melee combat seemed like a bit of a cop out.

this is a masterpiece and fuiud

― imago, Saturday, 31 March 2018 22:13 (one month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that terrible WCPAEB track

love that song.

his soundtracks have always been wack af, i'm glad there was only one 'song' song here that i can remember (the wcpaeb).

good movie.

this is a masterpiece and fuiud

― imago, Saturday, 31 March 2018 22:13 (one month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, I have recently watched FMF again recently and it's pretty impressive just to see how his work on the dogs in both movies has evolved.
I love FMF but visually, IOD is in another league.
So many brilliant and beautiful moments/ideas.
I wonder if he can top that and do another animation movie...

his soundtracks have always been wack af, i'm glad there was only one 'song' song here that i can remember (the wcpaeb).

― brimstead, Tuesday, May 1, 2018

kind of agree but the use of "2000 Man" in Bottle Rocket is grebt

"the plot is mostly irrelevant"

as soon as that chase started in TGBH i realised he is quite bad at plots.

plots schmots

So many brilliant and beautiful moments/ideas.

I think this might have made a good silent movie.

hum. no because the voices are fun too !
Actually, for all their incredible artistical and technical qualities, I'm not sure his animation movies would be as good if the voices weren't made by his VIP/usual suspects cast.
Like the exact same movies as IoD or FMF but with a voice cast of unknown actors would certainly be a little less fun.

I thought the voices were underutilized in this one, vs. FMF. Just too unexpressive and monotone.

It's more hit&miss, yeah.

Finally saw this last night, can't say I loved it. I thought FMF had a lot more emotional depth and humor. This film just seemed unnecessarily dark and depressing. Don't really need to watch endless sad, abused, and sickly dogs to feel something.

This was fine, but no FMF indeed.

usual wes anderson short-comings: no character development

I wonder how you measure this? Not one of the problems.

If that's an issue at all for you it would have to be a dealbreaker, no?

What characters? This is a bunch of little kids dressed up in animal costumes.