US Politics, December 2017: I guess there’s always 2018

pew pew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6YE4PCRNwc

dunno if this was posted

Twitter on why it didn't delete anti-Muslim tweets: "To help ensure people have an opportunity to see every side of an issue, there may be the rare occasion when we allow controversial content or behavior which may otherwise violate our rules." https://t.co/WXc22NI01i

— CNN International (@cnni) November 30, 2017

This one is redundant. That should go on Twitter c/d for posterity though. Christ, what a bunch of assholes.

POLL

"When you're a star they let you do anything"

Trump's ex-national security adviser Michael Flynn charged with making false statement to FBI in January https://t.co/Zw6tQil7xf

— BBC Breaking News (@BBCBreaking) December 1, 2017

News vs. propaganda:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP95G7mX4AEZfM2.jpg

The Flynn news is big -- he's pleading guilty to that charge.

He's flipped.

yeah but her emails!

lock her up

yep pleading guilty to these weak charges means he flipped i'd imagine

Which means Mueller is moving up the food chain. Which means Kush, Trumps ...

Folks pic.twitter.com/6aV3ZSUX5y

— John Whitehouse (@existentialfish) December 1, 2017

it was deficit december again in DC

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/us/politics/republican-tax-bill-moves-closer-to-senate-passage.html?_r=0

donald didn't golf every week day

Can we lock one of these threads?

Lock them all

mnuchausen

LOCK EM UP

Beautiful

Sources with direct knowledge tell ABC News the President & his legal team learned about the Flynn plea via news reports this morning.

— Michael Del Moro (@MikeDelMoro) December 1, 2017

awesome

keep this thread open, lock the other one please

i hope it was from cnn xp

hahaha

sorry, i just have to post the url

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/white-house-overrun-cockroaches-mice-ants-article-1.3669210

It's absolutely true, and that's not even counting all the non-human vermin running rampant.

The Oval Office bathroom was also in need of a new toilet seat, with directions that it be installed “after hours please.”

well you see how often the guy tweets

New: Source close to the president attempted to mitigate the severity of the charge against Flynn by pointing out that everyone lies in Washington, per reporting by @GloriaBorger.

— David Wright (@DavidWright_CNN) December 1, 2017

i am not a lawyer but that defence seems... flimsy

lol

the two threads can talk to each other. practice for the holidays

Bet the seat broke the morning he tweeted cofefe.

"Everyone lies," says Trump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_and_Knaves

Bet the seat broke the morning he tweeted cofefe.

― Three Word Username, Friday, December 1, 2017 10:59 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

eyes rolled back, left eyelid flutters, secret service knocks "everything alright in there sir?"

okay so is firing Comey going to go down as the dumbest move in political history?

Just think: if Hillary had won, Trump never would've had to fire Comey!

dumbest move in political history is in the oval office right now iirc (presuming it's not golfing)

"Everyone lies," says Trump.

Drain that swamp.

Okay seeing a rumor that Flynn will testify that Trump directly ordered him to make contact with the Russians. That's...that's something. (Let's see if it's real.)

Just now: @BrianRoss on @ABC News Special Report: Flynn promised full cooperation to the Mueller team and is prepared to testify that candidate Trump "directed him to make contact with the Russians.” https://t.co/E0tA37GOo0 pic.twitter.com/PmNEO7eekt

— Dan Linden (@DanLinden) December 1, 2017

!!!

maybe santa is real guys

WE'RE GONNA SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS AGAIN

OPPO DUMP

that’s what broke the oval office shitter iirc

THIS IS BIG YES?

https://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Pence%20letter.pdf

Dumbest movement in political history would be in the West Wing toilet right now if they could only get the damn seat fixed.

that DependsTM

terrible timing, dropping all this in the middle of infrastructure week

Erik Prince just now on lesson to be taken from Flynn charge/plea: "Don't talk to the FBI"

tremendous patriot

HOLY FUCKING SHIT

all I want for Christmas is impeachment.

really trying hard not to get too excited about this but

i hope for all our sakes mr. trump buys and flips mr. flynn's house. #MRGA

i got chills hearing that you guys . is this real

I'm sure Trump is currently scrambling to offer Flynn a pardon in exchange for not testifying against him

oh my god

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSuregWhlWk

really trying hard not to get too excited about this but

― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Friday, December 1, 2017

What's that coming out of the gun?

this is really fucking with my productivity at work this morning tho

holy shit December rules

The feds want Martin Shkreli to fork over the https://twitter.com/stewartbishop/status/936622249431445509 million Wu-Tang Clan Album. pic.twitter.com/5QLWcJgDP7

— Stewart Bishop (@stewartbishop) December 1, 2017

I'm sure there's a role for Donald in Britain First if this all goes badly for him.

really trying hard not to get too excited about this but
― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Friday, December 1, 2017
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Friday, December 1, 2017

can flynn go 'mute marine'?

what’s the over/under on flynn suffering a mysterious but fatal injury sometime in the next few days

thank god TIME held off on person of the year

Okay seeing a rumor that Flynn will testify that Trump directly ordered him to make contact with the Russians. That's...that's something. (Let's see if it's real.)

― Ned Raggett, Friday, December 1, 2017 11:15 AM (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

most of what i see still says it is "senior officials" rather than trump himself

And that's suggestive plenty, on its own.

oh man I hadn't even thought about Mueller being person of the year

This fucker.

Full statement from Mike Flynn, who has just entered guilty plea to felony charge in federal court. pic.twitter.com/Y59UmjxW60

— Steve Herman (@W7VOA) December 1, 2017

Strip him of everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWAJk32r0ZQ

reminds me of

"It hurts so much when you falsely accuse me of treason. PS I made false statements about not committing treason."

GOD FAMILY MILITARY and yeah maybe a spot of light treason nbd

Ty Cobb, ladies and gentlemen!

WH lawyer Ty Cobb describes Trump’s designated national security adviser Michael Flynn as “a former Obama administration official”

— John Harwood (@JohnJHarwood) December 1, 2017

DOW at -300 already, imagine if no taxes today

loooooool xp

lol I am not sure "how dare you accuse me of treason; at worst I just committed perjury" is the best PR move here

typical weaselly doublespeak from a former obama administration official

The tweet tips the strategy: Trump's team will paint Flynn as a Democrat who Trump appointed in a misguided attempt at bipartisanship. "But you see, you can't give a liberal an inch, you let them in the door and they'll make up FAKE NEWS LEAKS about you.." There's be plenty of people who buy it.

lots of folks on twitter saying it matters a lot whether this happened during campaign or during transition..... but aren't really saying why. can anyone elaborate?

a former obama administration official

See? Trump IS draining the swamp of those Obama-administration holdovers who were trying to sabotage his agenda of #MAGA.

but Obama personally warned Trump not to hire him

lalala can't hear you

but Obama personally warned Trump not to hire him

I don't know why Br'er Rabbit and the brier patch suddenly popped into my head

^^ my same thought

marcos, I guess because campaign and transition personnel may pretty much just be civilians talking out of their ass about nice synergies that may happen. After inauguration, these chuckleheads were in fact and in law part of the actual government of the nation. There are, as they say, rules.

Poetic justice.

After issuing his guilty plea, Michael Flynn exits courthouse to chants of “Lock him up.”pic.twitter.com/jFeXOhjQG1

— Rob Bennett (@rob_bennett) December 1, 2017

Susan Collins says she has an agreement on the state and local tax deduction.

She sounded positive. That might be it.

— Matt Fuller (@MEPFuller) December 1, 2017

Mitch McConnell: "We have the votes."

— Matt Fuller (@MEPFuller) December 1, 2017

oh well that brief burst of positivity was nice while it lasted

mute marine

You mean like

http://img.wennermedia.com/article-leads-horizontal/rs-182980-51506774.jpg

oh well that brief burst of positivity was nice while it lasted

― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Friday, December 1, 2017 12:00 PM (twenty-one seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But it was a sure thing prior to the more positive news, despite the recent confirmations.

Intrigued that it came down to the SALT deduction. What's the offset?

The front page of Reddit right now is pretty striking, and not in their usual Nomeansno-like mixture of cats, sex and nazis.

none of these monsters in the senate are impeaching anyone while they have the votes to do things like this

is the thing

you weren't kidding about that reddit front page...

cats, sex and nazis.

DOW at -300 already, imagine if no taxes today

that's less than half of 1 percentage point, and it's already trending back to the morning's starting line

impeachment isn't going to happen

xpost
er sorry, at the time it was more than 1. but it's currently back up to -0.40%. i don't know why i care, just a pet peeve

MCCONNELL: "See, what we want you to do is to plead guilty to a perjury charge and testify against the President; this will attract all of the media attention and allow us to pass the tax bill with less scrutiny."
FLYNN: "What's in it for me, though?"
MCCONNELL: "I don't know, a pony?"
FLYNN: "SOLD"

impeachment isn't going to happen

...this month? or ever?

it will never happen as long as the GOP has congressional majorities

Two Swiss accounts
were in his name.
Diverted funds
but who's to blame?
The time had come
to tell his tale.
Here's what he said
T'stay out of jail:"

no disrespect to Shakey but yeah I'm not gonna buy any expert's opinions on what will never happen here let alone some rando internet poster

probably posted here yesterday, but ezra klein's piece about how we don't actually have a way of removing an obviously shitty president seems relevant:

https://www.vox.com/2017/11/30/16517022/impeachment-donald-trump

Minor details!

.@kwelkernbc reported on NBC News a few minutes ago that she spoke with someone 'very close to the president' who describes the Flynn development as "very very bad," says there are significant concerns within Trump's inner circle about what Flynn might know and what he might say.

— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) December 1, 2017

lol did we link the CNN article here: http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/01/politics/michael-flynn-charged/index.html

The White House said late Friday morning that "nothing about the guilty plea or the charge implicates anyone other than Mr. Flynn.

"The conclusion of this phase of the special counsel's work demonstrates again that the special counsel is moving with all deliberate speed and clears the way for a prompt and reasonable conclusion," Ty Cobb, a White House lawyer, said in a statement.

White House allies initially tried to put a positive spin on the news.

One person familiar with the mood in the West Wing insisted top White House officials were breathing a sigh of relief.

"People in the building are very happy," the source said. "This doesn't lead back to Trump in any way, shape or form." The source noted that Flynn is being charged for making false statements, but not for any improper actions during the campaign.

"This is a further indication that there's nothing there," the source said. "This is a win for the White House."

A source with knowledge of the legal team's thinking tells CNN the Flynn plea "is not going to be a problem" for the President, though it could be a problem for people who worked with Flynn. The source said legal exposure for others would depend on what they might have said to the special counsel.

A source who advises the administration on strategy said this was expected.

"Poor judgment. But this was expected. Trump fired him for lying to (Vice President Mike Pence). Of course, he lied to the FBI, too," the source said.

And another source, who is close to Trump, attempted to downplay the severity of the charge against Flynn by noting that lying in Washington is not new. The source maintained that he was still not worried about any potential cooperation between Flynn and the prosecutors.

for real: not saying trump is on his way out this December by any means, but this is definitely a bad development for him, and it is pretty clear that he doesn't respond very well to intense criticism and pressure.

in other words, i hope he doesn't blow up the goddamn world on his way out

agreed

how are the folks over at beetbort handling this i wonder

it will never happen as long as the GOP has congressional majorities

― Οὖτις, Friday, December 1, 2017 12:11 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. GOP will do everything they can to ignore or diminish this. they don't give a shit

with an unexpectedly straight bat, weirdly, although the comments are naturally Very Good Content xp

in other news

http://www.statesman.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/democratic-dallas-county-sheriff-run-for-governor-reports-say/zCa0MimmHHFH9vzWrYdWWL/

every year the first is on a friday i offer a Deficit December oracle. here goes. Barack Hussein Obama will be a Supreme Court Justice some day after 2scoops is history

Democrats are breathing a sigh of relief that a not particularly impressive cop no one has heard (how many people even know their own sheriff much less that of another county) of is going to run, cool.

She might get steamrolled worse than Wendy Davis.

yeah idk just seemed like an interesting development

marcos, I guess because campaign and transition personnel may pretty much just be civilians talking out of their ass about nice synergies that may happen. After inauguration, these chuckleheads were in fact and in law part of the actual government of the nation. There are, as they say, rules.

― here come the warm jorts (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, December 1, 2017 11:58 AM (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

maybe i'm understanding this backwards, but wouldn't it be MORE inappropriate for a campaign to be communicating with a (hostile) foreign government than for a transition team to be reaching out to now-cemented diplomatic channels?

barack obama will be the first chief judge in the newly-established mega city one after bringing justice to the cursed earth

i AM THE LAW

No Democrats in Texas believe anyone has a chance against Abbott. But it would be wrong not to run somebody inspiring at the top of the ticket, so this is a good choice. There are downticket races Democrats can win. Why Dems believe Beto can unseat Cruz is a more interesting question... that is unlikely but not impossible.

now that i think about it trump’s cabinet appointment process isn’t far off judge cal’s

https://78.media.tumblr.com/3c5bb95c088109be39d44329ed93b6e2/tumblr_n9tje2ngfe1th2zcvo1_500.png

wait... what?

“I am pleased to announce I will vote in support of the tax reform bill,” Flake said in a statement. He said he’d secured leadership support for priorities related to expensing and to a solution for immigrants brought illegally to this country as children.

this bill is just a total hodgepodge at this point

I have 'secured support for priorities' fuckin' a jeff well done

flake by name...

flake jeff flake >:(

whoever said upthread that all of this is just an excuse for these scum to pose as "serious thinkers weighing important issues" - you were right.

(in the previous thread, I mean)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcKtEUUg4Qa/

lol is that real ?

can we get comey on the ‘moral arc of the universe’ thread pls

that was me sleeve :)

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/key-issue-in-flynn-plea-deal

The key question out of the Flynn plea agreement is the identity of the person referenced as a “senior official of the Presidential Transition Team” and another termed a “very senior member of the Presidential Transition Team”.

...The ‘very’ in “very senior member” seems like an almost over the top effort to convey just who it was the prosecutors are talking about. It’s hard to see that that is not either Pence or President Trump, though it also strikes me as perhaps a bit too coy to refer to the incoming President as a member of transition team.

...The clear takeaway is that basically all of Trump’s top advisors, including the President and almost certainly Vice President Pence, were in the loop about these calls even if they did not themselves speak to Flynn directly.

Who are these people, the “senior official” and the “very senior official” I doubt we’ll have to wait long to find out.

pretty obvious implications based upon the plea deal and the statement, but still very surreal

the guy on the right used taxpayer money to settle a sexual harassment scandal https://t.co/5Dc4DF3alD pic.twitter.com/fZXdcpBQUH

— Rex Santus (@rexsantus) December 1, 2017

looks like it is kushner?

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-01/kushner-is-said-to-have-ordered-flynn-to-contact-russia

looks like this handy cut-out-and-keep guide to russian collusion might come in handy

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP-wzWMX0AEYLoq?format=jpg

cool, clear as mud

can't wait till this affair helps bring down the massively important *squints* jaren frishner

Prosecutors stated Flynn was directed to engage the Russians on 12/29/16 by donald’s national security transition team.

Senator Tom Cotton was on that team.

The same Tom Cotton who rabidly defended Mike Flynn.

The same Tom Cotton about to be nominated as CIA Director.

— Philippe Reines (@PhilippeReines) December 1, 2017

Meanwhile right-wingers are all like "HELLO? reaching out to foreign powers was his JOB, that's NORMAL, that's what an incoming administration is SUPPOSED to do; if Trump hadn't done that, the media would be all like 'he's not prepared!'."

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcKtEUUg4Qa/

― Evan, Friday, December 1, 2017 1:02 PM (thirty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

crazy how everyone who escapes from this shitpile of a government (Comey/Boehner/Obama) seems to have the time of their lives

there's like three people Flynn could have possibly flipped on, I don't see how this leads to anyone other than Trump himself honestly

Other right-wing lines:

"It's called DIPLOMACY! you fuckheads" etc. etc.

Then shifting to "man, that Obama admin official..."

Or, best, "well now that he's an admitted liar, nothing Flynn says can be taken seriously now! The first question will be 'did you admit to lying' / 'yes' / 'okay so why should be believe anything you say now?'."

Re: Tom Cotton "about to be nominated as CIA director",

despite being reported by NYT and elsewhere last night as something that is happening, it's not clear at all that Pompeo > State / Cotton > CIA / Tillerson > Ducktales Silo filled with Gold is a real thing or ongoing process.

Ly'nn Flynn

There Is No Evidence of ‘Collusion’ in Michael Flynn’s Offense Statement

lol david french you magnificent bastard

le david français

David Freedom

Instead, it amplifies the fact that Flynn apparently lied about contacts that were lawful and appropriate.

y tho?

Thing is strictly speaking French is right based on the exact charge and statement. The split right now is to whether that's 'all' that's there -- haha! -- or if there's something more as yet formally undiscussed in terms of charges and offenses. In terms of NRO world Andrew McCarthy is pushing the first option hard, French is there too, whereas in his Bloomberg piece Eli Lake is vaguely more 'maybe?' about it. But this is clearly closer to what's likely happening:

Had lunch with a lawyer today. He noted that Mueller will "report back" to the court on sentencing, which (he says) is an anvil hanging over Flynn's head for as long as Mueller wants.

— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) December 1, 2017

really trying not to get too excited about any of this

It's another step. It's a BIG step, because for the first time reaches beyond 'mere' campaign operatives towards someone formally in government and his actions there and immediately proceeding. So we'll see what's next.

What will be interesting is if there's some new signal from somewhere. This news was essentially out in the open a week and a half back when the report about Flynn's lawyer discontinuing cooperation with Trump/Kushner's folks circulated. We see something like this again, you'll know something major is up.

Trump firing Comey to protect Flynn, leading to Mueller using a special counsel to get Flynn to flip against Trump is some delicious irony

with the intelligence level of this White House they probably think you meant "ironing."

like a dorm room grilled cheese

never forget

US Politics December 2017: Deficits Don't Matter

I'm pouring out a 40 for the other thread as we speak.

Meanwhile

Trump firing Comey to protect Flynn, leading to Mueller using a special counsel to get Flynn to flip against Trump

is the "she swallowed the spider to catch the fly" of US politics

I don't know why we elected this guy
I hope he dies

lol

Re: Tom Cotton "about to be nominated as CIA director",

despite being reported by NYT and elsewhere last night as something that is happening, it's not clear at all that Pompeo > State / Cotton > CIA / Tillerson > Ducktales Silo filled with Gold is a real thing or ongoing process.

― Karl Malone, Friday, December 1, 2017 6:45 PM (fifty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah no way Tillerson leaves before 2/1 unless he gets fired. supposedly he has to pay taxes on his titanic exxon divestment if he quits any earlier.

Had lunch with a lawyer today. He noted that Mueller will "report back" to the court on sentencing, which (he says) is an anvil hanging over Flynn's head for as long as Mueller wants.

from that tom nichols tweet - no shit. flynn is cooperating and will be sentenced once this whole thing is wrapped up. then the DOJ will weigh in on whether he rendered 'substantial assistance' and if so - have his sentence reduced to the bare minimum. anything short of substantial assistance will get him the full 5 years. still its not that much time which means he has some good ass info on higher ups.

supposedly he has to pay taxes on his titanic exxon divestment if he quits any earlier.

If Flynn’s pleading guilty to lying about this Russia meeting does that mean he won’t be charged for his Turkish connection, which some reports said involved discussing taking bribes for extraditing a guy?

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/11/10/michael-flynn-investigation-turkey-cleric-wsj-cuomo-bts-newday.cnn

These shennanigans.

does that mean he won’t be charged for his Turkish connection

as I read it, it means that Mueller is keeping that charge in his hip pocket, as leverage, so that Flynn stays maximally cooperative through fear of the consequences for himself if he doesn't come clean and feed Mueller everything he knows. Since more items may arise where Flynn's knowledge may be important, Mueller won't resolve that charge until he's sure he's drained Flynn of every scrap of info he knows.

Alright. As long as this isn’t the final “deal.” Bc handing over dissidents for cash is reprehensible and he should be held accountable.

The deal ain't over or set in stone until he's sentenced.

have 'secured support for priorities' fuckin' a jeff well done

I would simply point out that jeff 'the flake' flake is a republican. he's just more of a bush republican than a trump republican.

Y'know, it's easy to gloat, but I think it's kind of beautiful General Flynn is flipping because he knows his son @mflynnJR is too weak for prison. That's the heartwarming lesson I take out of this.

— John Rogers (@jonrog1) December 1, 2017

BREAKING: Jared Kushner is the "very senior member" of Trump transition mentioned in Michael Flynn guilty plea, NBC News has learned. https://t.co/zry8ksiZr0

— CNBC Now (@CNBCnow) December 1, 2017

soooo....Ivanka's gonna be single

Twitter silence finally broken, glad to see he's addressing the elephant in the room

The media has been speculating that I fired Rex Tillerson or that he would be leaving soon - FAKE NEWS! He’s not leaving and while we disagree on certain subjects, (I call the final shots) we work well together and America is highly respected again!https://t.co/FrqiPLFJ1E

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 1, 2017

"I call the final shots" would've been an excellent December thread title...mods, make it happen

Jared Kushner is the "very senior member" of Trump transition mentioned in Michael Flynn guilty plea

fleas are hard to kill. fingertip pressure is not nearly enough. it is best to crush them between two hard surfaces, such as between one's fingernails.

Opportunity missed.

Speaking of Flynn Jr. he suddenly posted this

Family is the most important thing in life.....don’t ever take yours for granted. Thanks everyone for the support. pic.twitter.com/gVEilG9Dde

— 🇺🇸MFLYNNJR🇺🇸 (@mflynnJR) December 1, 2017

Opportunity missed.

More likely delayed.

never forget -- i call the final shots

I don't want to be a downer but impending passage of tax bill is worse news than Flynn plea is good news.

You may disagree if you choose but I call the final shots

deficits don't matter, whatever happens

i don't think that's lost on anybody in this thread xxp

I don't want to be a downer but impending passage of tax bill is worse news than Flynn plea is good news.

on the plus side, a bunch of GOP Reps will lose their seats if they just vote "yes" on the Senate bill

all I want for Christmas is impeachment.

even 2019 is a long shot, junior

yup

2022, who knows?

Yeah at this point it's less about the vote today as the attempts at reconciliation. Which could happen but I suspect it won't happen the way anyone in the GOP wants.

More likely delayed.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, December 1, 2017 3:20 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ha -- I meant thread title. Should have xposted

99/ This, then, is the key *political*—rather than legal—debate of our moment and perhaps our time: conservatives trying to squeeze as much political value as possible out of a presidency that will end in not just disgrace but public acceptance as the worst America has ever seen.

— Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) December 1, 2017

At least Mariotti keeps his fairly short and specific.

we've been through this with him, he's awful

imagine if you could post short essays in full length on the internet, instead of having to break them up into several dozen tweets.

mariotti is pretty good imo xp

yeah sorry I meant Abramson, idk Mariotti

a presidency that will end in not just disgrace but public acceptance as the worst America has ever seen.

xps

reconciliation is definitely the last opportunity for the tax bill to lose its legs. I think Ryan has more flexibility to lose votes than McConnell does, so the Senate version is likely to be very little modified coming out of reconciliation. of course, that's when the freedom caucus will see its chance to collect some pelts. but in the end it all comes down to just counting and recounting votes, and none of us will see the real sausage making in action.

he thinks the chuds are just gonna roll over and be like ‘whoops, worst president ever!’

they did with Dubya, they'll do it again

the GOP went from worshiping Bush to denouncing him as a deficit-busting heretic the moment his approval ratings dipped below thirty percent. The GOP will read Trump out of the party as an aberration in a few years too.

but, oh, those few years...

everyone should tweet HAPPY HOLIDAYS to DT and fam

if he thinks the chuds are just gonna roll over and be like ‘whoops, worst president ever!’

I think there was at least one element of the voters who thought, this trump guy seems damned iffy, but he sure talks big and sounds confident. I don't know. maybe he can deliver or maybe he's really as bad as he looks, but I'm willing to roll the dice on him. at least he's not Hillary.

That slice, even if it was only 5% of his total vote, was enough to elect him. I expect they are getting sick and tired of winning by now and it can only go downhill from here.

and Hillary isn't running again in 2020.. (or so I am lead to believe)

She's stated as much, anyway.

I have hardcore lefties/Bernie-ites who have actually told me we can't run another woman (much less a non-white woman) against Trump in 2020 :(

the implication being that it *has* to be an old white guy if we want to "win back" those "swing" voters

those ppl are idiots

hardcore lefties and bernard brothers are two different sets of folks

I think Abramson is a nutcase and I'm for sure not gonna read his latest extrusion but tweet #99 above seems pretty much right to me!

Lots of people loved Nixon right up until the end and thought he was getting railroaded by the Commies and the Jews. It doesn't seem at all nuts to me to imagine Trump universally understood as a disgrace ten years from now.

but yeah whoever said that is dumb obviously

hardcore lefties/Bernie-ites who have actually told me we can't run another woman (much less a non-white woman) against Trump

and they are all political savants, amirite?

nah, just the Cult of Bernie

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of bernard brothers would be perfectly happy to back warren

Trump would love to run against Warren

which I take as a bad omen

maybe whoever runs shouldn't be 70

yup

"I have hardcore lefties/Bernie-ites who have actually told me we can't run another woman (much less a non-white woman) against Trump in 2020 :(

― Οὖτις, Friday, December 1, 2017 9:05 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the implication being that it *has* to be an old white guy if we want to "win back" those "swing" voters"

yes those people are idiots. it's not about getting votes from a shrinking demographic (stupid old white men in the rust belt states), it's about energizing the demographic that elected Obama, which is largely female, largely multicultural, and largely urban. They're the ones who weren't excited by Hilary.

I find the argument that Warren shouldn't run because he'll call her a dumb name weird. Like, who isn't he going to call a dumb name

which is why Harris or Gillibrand or even stupid Gabbard would probably do well against Trump.

howard dean was on NPR the other day and said basically the same thing. I still like Dean. guy knows how the democratic party should work.

it's about energizing the demographic that elected Obama, which is largely female, largely multicultural, and largely urban. They're the ones who weren't excited by Hilary.

otm, let us never forget that Trump won with less Repub votes than Romney got

maybe whoever runs shouldn't be 70

I've never seen warren on the campaign trail. If she's able to rouse the rabble with a good red-meat speech, then trump hasn't a prayer. If she's a Hillary-level campaigner, she'd have Hillary-level problems beating trump.

maybe whoever runs shouldn't be 70

― Embalming is a flirty business (DJP), Friday, December 1, 2017 4:11 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup

― Simon H., Friday, December 1, 2017 4:11 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OTM
OTM
OTM
OTM

ban septuogenerians from elected office

agreed akm, I think Dean is right as well.

I love Kamala and am proud of her and generally supportive of her running, but tbh I dunno if she has the starpower/media instincts to really eviscerate 2scoops. I hope so.

xp

mark zuckerberg is a spry, limber 33

which is why he can't run

xp yes to marcos, DJP, Simon, ban these baby boom fuckers for life

Amend Constitution, make 35 a ceiling rather than a floor.

the accelerationist in me wants the Zuck to run

/ mark zuckerberg is a spry, limber 33/

which is why he can't run

ban these baby boom fuckers for life

hey! I resemble that remark!

lol Zuck will be 35 in May 2019, he can run if he wants to

I don't necessarily think this will be a good idea, mind you

zuck’s 35 in may 2019 btw

although we all know the next President will be Dwayne Johnson

Good thing Miller is only 32 (somehow)

"I helped fuck up the last election and my product is garbage! Vote for me!"

I hope he dies in a robot-driven car-crash

save it for the RIP thread man

there's a thread for this

President Johnson cannot be contained to just one thread

maybe whoever runs shouldn't be 70

― Embalming is a flirty business (DJP), Friday, December 1, 2017 4:11 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup

― Simon H., Friday, December 1, 2017 4:11 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OTM
OTM
OTM
OTM

― marcos, Friday, December 1, 2017 3:16 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

good idea Granny thx

although we all know the next President will be Dwayne Johnson

I find ppl's affection for the Rock baffling. everyone loves a self-effacing, alpha-male charmer I guess.

I find ppl's affection for the Rock baffling

same tbh

guys have you seen his smile, omg

I've read his (ghost-written) autobiography!

he calls a lot of people jabroni and refers to "the Rock" in the third person, as a separate entity from "Dwayne Johnson"

also have you smelled what he is cooking, omg

in comparison to trump, the guy is aristotle

I wonder how many times family members teased him with that line after he exited the bathroom

xp

Yeah forget 70 year olds go for a young fresh politician like, er, Napoleon Macron or that Hitler Youth guy in Austria.

Trump team will surely get a lot of mileage out of this absurd defense.

lol wut? White House now saying Obama "authorized" Flynn's conversations with Russian Ambassador. pic.twitter.com/0VVl0TN2ci

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) December 1, 2017

thanks obama

Um, I think the problem is he lied to the FBI about the conversation. And it's even a little bit about what he said during the conversation about lifting sanctions. And then lied about.

corker now a 'no'?

iirc Obama started birtherism too

where are you seeing that

xp

started it by being born iirc

xp

INBOX: Corker will vote no on the tax bill

— Ben Jacobs (@Bencjacobs) December 1, 2017

Eh, they can afford to lose him.

yeah there needs to be two more

vote delayed again, until tomorrow?

now *that* is interesting

Huh.

math is hard

this shit is killing me but yeah that's a good sign

Collins cannot possibly actually believe what Mitch is selling her, can she?

tax cuts are like the one GOP orthodoxy she ascribes to

i.e. "Mitch promised me he wouldn't invoke the law that triggers automatic Medicare cuts when this bill blows up the deficit three years from now, why would he do such a mean thing, he told me"

(er "subscribes" I meant)

xp

Meantime, separately, a little fun:

https://medium.com/@ScottMStedman/exclusive-developer-of-trump-tower-moscow-received-loan-from-sanctioned-sberbank-three-weeks-after-df582c22eb72

Not surprising

MORE: An additional "senior official" cited in court documents is K.T. McFarland, the former deputy national security adviser, sources tell @ABC. https://t.co/JalkVUIdsa

— ABC News (@ABC) December 1, 2017

I always get confused when I see KT McFarland and think about KT Tunstall.

Today I can't help remembering Michael Hastings's prescient and important reporting on Mike Flynn. An excerpt from THE OPERATORS, published in January 2012: pic.twitter.com/Ex6lbrTghR

— Elise Jordan (@Elise_Jordan) December 1, 2017

i'd tell you gabbnebs to once again STFU about POTUS 2020, except of course all the big players are already raising money.

(and all the 'electable' ones under 70 kinda suck)

re Corker

What an absolute hypocrite and fraud. He was the swing vote on the budget committee. Struck the deal and cast the deciding vote to allow this deficit-exploding bill to pass with 50 votes. This vote now means absolutely nothing. https://t.co/lPyFIduy5i

— Seth Hanlon (@SethHanlon) December 1, 2017

Cork Bob Corker and Flake Jeff Flake

btw I keep hearing the both sides do it crowd talk about E. Warren pretending to be Native American? is that true??

It’s sort of true but who cares

I think she was mistaken about her ancestry personally but right wingers think she reported herself as 5% native american or something to get affirmative action benefits.

I don’t even know my whole ancestry. I might say I’m part native american as a sign of solidarity with warren.

the accelerationist in me wants the Zuck to run

also fuck the Republican Party and its ushering in the gilded age part two ass politics

http://www.factcheck.org/2017/12/elizabeth-warrens-pocahontas-controversy/

I really think if someone in the House proposed a bring back slavery bill (we’ll harvest slaves from those currently caught up in the criminal justice system) that shit might pass. I’m 100% serious.

@horseshoe I don't like human suffering. yes, I was (darkly) joking

Dont give them any ideas

sorry, it’s been a shitty week

I was just handed a 479-page tax bill a few hours before the vote. One page literally has hand scribbled policy changes on it that can’t be read. This is Washington, D.C. at its worst. Montanans deserve so much better. pic.twitter.com/q6lTpXoXS0

— Senator Jon Tester (@SenatorTester) December 2, 2017

these people are among the most contemptible pieces of shit to ever walk the earth

I wish I were making this up. This is the version of the #GOPTaxScam the Senate votes on tonight. Handwritten text up and down the margins. pic.twitter.com/MnC4eyHAlU

— Chad Bolt (@chadderr) December 1, 2017

the GOP went from worshiping Bush to denouncing him as a deficit-busting heretic the moment his approval ratings dipped below thirty percent.

maybe it's just where I live but I've never heard any Republicans say bad things about GWB. (Trump doesn't count)

i believe the word Tester can't read is "attributable"

really think if someone in the House proposed a bring back slavery bill (we’ll harvest slaves from those currently caught up in the criminal justice system) that shit might pass. I’m 100% serious.

tbh this is essentially what is happening, legally, all over the country. Prisoners are given work that is intended to directly profit private companies. The rise of private prisons in the US is really something to be concerned about imo. pretty good article here tho it's from last year - http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/prison-labor-strike-history-heather-ann-thompson/

agreed, which makes my rage feel even more useless but gaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh I hate these motherfuckers so much

they want us all gone so that they can finish off the planet without hindrance

maybe they’ll bring back child labor for poor kids, you know? the KKK is already resurging a la gilded age. fuck this shit.

To arms, gabbnebs!

(not entirely facetious except for actual arms tbrr)

maybe it's just where I live but I've never heard any Republicans say bad things about GWB. (Trump doesn't count)

― crüt, Friday, December 1, 2017 8:00 PM (forty-one minutes ago)

Irrelevant NRO, FOX commentator, and Red State types.

Meantime, how some other sausage is made. Worth a read, confirms a lot of supposition -- this is all from Flynn's legal team, one presumes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/facing-mounting-legal-vulnerabilities-flynn-turned-to-a-deal/2017/12/01/72b38dfc-d6b7-11e7-b62d-d9345ced896d_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_flynndeal-750pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.ebc5e9f7c7dc

they want us all gone so that they can finish off the planet without hindrance

― horseshoe

truth bomb

p much

met a KKK guy the other day (pt), pretty sure he's been a jerk all his life but my god he has been bold about giving the POC staff hell

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/362902-senators-vote-down-rubio-lee-child-tax-credit-expansion

Does this mean the hairpiece that walks like a man will vote no?! Let's take bets.

Yes Warren is what we like to call a Pretendian. She hasn't done herself any favors by buckling down on that by insisting family lore is a legitimate way to claim your connection to a tribe. I'd forgive this more if she were an advocate.

Someone I know just wrote this: http://www.yesmagazine.org/people-power/pocahontas-is-not-a-name-that-should-offend-you-20171201

so they're passing the bill in the senate now

'contemptible pieces of shit' is exactly right

inevitably, when republicans are crowing in about 6 years about the deficit, let us all wreeeeeeeeeeeetch at this memory

A lot of us will be dead by then.

inshallah

heinous bills like this pass in part bc Dems don't know how to communicate. I am sick and tired of this amateur hour bullshit pic.twitter.com/tBv7cPrKyE

— blupman. (@blippoblappo) December 2, 2017

Uh, so, Ted Cruz and 49 of his friends just added a tax break for private school tuition. https://t.co/qcjBHhdRut

— Ben Wikler (@benwikler) December 2, 2017

inevitably, when republicans are crowing in about 6 years about the deficit, let us all wreeeeeeeeeeeetch at this memory

We will, the public will not and the next Democratic President will be Clinton and Obama-ed on spending when they try to return us to any semblance of reasonable governance.

deficits don't matter, people. and you know what, forget it. we're better than they are, funnier, harder on each other, they just have more power, that's all

off with their heads

While the Democrats have lost in the short term, they are wisely focused on the tax bill's impact on the national debt so they can also lose in the long term https://t.co/5BllxqLsA9

— Jon Schwarz (@schwarz) December 2, 2017

so far i've mainly seen bernie talking about future republican efforts to cut social security and medicare under the rubric of the debt

btw off with their heads

OK!

A great holiday gift and a great message for your congressional representative! Use coupon code PEOPLESWARONXMAS for 15% off your purchase.
🌹🌺❤️🔪🍰

Order by Dec 11 for domestic delivery before Dec 25.https://t.co/VwTVXRoQvHhttps://t.co/EfZecugFDJ#GOPTaxPlan #WeGotThis pic.twitter.com/VLvTNUOFpn

— Mayday by Ida (@MaydayByIda) December 1, 2017

I'm going to be rushing my patented anti-decapitation collar to market just after the holidays, if anyone wants to get in on what's sure to be a windfall. It's totally defective, of course, because fuck every one of these motherfuckers who are about to become intimately if very briefly acquainted with what the inside of wicker basket full of heads looks like.

Oh, who am I kidding, they can go ahead and start picking new office furniture to commemorate their landslide reelections next year. Excuse me while I choke down some Zoloft and pretend that the landmass isn't dissolving beneath our feet.

I'm still a non-US resident for tax purposes but it has been almost physically painful to read about this bill.

this justifies violence

$1.4 trillion, $1.3 trillion

According to Make Lemonade, there are more than 44 million borrowers with $1.3 trillion in student loan debt in the U.S. alone. The average student in the Class of 2016 has $37,172 in student loan debt.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2017/02/21/student-loan-debt-statistics-2017/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

if the government kept current tax levels where they're at, we the people could write off everyone's student loan debt and still save $100,000,000,000, while probably some if not all of that money college grads pay to banks and the government every month would instead be spent in the consumer economy. we can't have that, though, because freedom, taxes are theft, and we can't let the soviets win

yall done fucked up

We fucked up? I beg to differ! Look at Morbius - he’s posting other people’s tweets to prove this is all the Democratic Party’s fault, and is therefore unquestionable.

watch Trump not realize he has to sign it

somewhere in hell jefferson davis, joseph stalin, and chairman mao are laughing their asses off at the united states of america

I'd say the fact that a tax cut bill is actually broadly unpopular speaks pretty well of Dem/left messaging, and maybe a dumb poster on CSPAN2 isn't a prime example of that messaging.

I'm horribly depressed btw but all the public messaging from Dems seemed fairly on-target, and the deficit focus was probably a better bet for trying to peel off Republican votes than, like, appealing to basic fucking decency.

re: dems, these three seem like good candidates for th efiring line

.@TheWayWithAnoa @BenjaminPDixon To prevent the #GOPTaxScam from destroying the safety net, @SenSanders proposed an amendment to its language that would have blocked attempts to cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Three Dems voted against it. https://t.co/ywjcsWcoC0 pic.twitter.com/fq9NPzvZra

— Michael McAllister (@ThatMichaelM) December 2, 2017

Tell the one percent to suck a dick, because we on now
Tell the government to suck a dick, because we on now
Tell the president to suck a dick, because we on now
We on now
We on now
We on now
We on now

Another former holdout, Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME), also based her vote on promises from the Trump administration and Senate leadership: one to pass two health care bills to mitigate the damage wrought by the repeal of Obamacare’s individual mandate, and another to waive the deep automatic cuts to Medicare that would be triggered by the tax bill’s enormous price tag.

*facepalm*

oh yeah, they're definitely going to get right to work on mitigating the damage wrought by the repeal of the individual mandate. it's just that first they have to go ahead and have trump sign the bill that repeals the individual mandate.

Warner and Durbin joined Carper, eh

Durbin would have been a yes vote, his no was a procedural thing afaik

do you guys remember in junior high when the outnumbered bullies picked on and lorded it over everyone else? because nothing's changed

“in part” is doing a lot of work here. I realize it’s a screenshot of one slogan on the senate floor I’m sure lots of people saw but Dems have been vocally condemning thr bill and it’s polled very badly and they all voted against it. Why can’t peolke like this just say “I wish more people had voted for Dems so this scary legislation wouldn’t exist in the first place”?

“heinous bills like this pass in part bc Dems don't know how to communicate. I am sick and tired of this amateur hour bullshit pic.twitter.com/tBv7cPrKyE”
— blupman. (@blippoblappo) December 2, 2017

Even when zero Democrats vote for a bill, they get dunked on for not voting against it harder. https://t.co/UJkLLSvHJG

— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) December 2, 2017

Don’t give Morbs and his ilk more attention than they deserve

from the "shocking!" file

https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.05303

can someone give me the names/states of the three Democrats who I'm going to be calling to yell at? (note: my line of attack with out-of-district problems is "I will donate to your challenger")

(the ones in Simon's post who voted against the Sanders amendement)

We already did, and, yes, JoeStork is right: I don't know who voted no for procedural reasons.

go 'head and keep committing suicide by DNC, centrists

The following Democrats voted against Sanders’ amendment to block cuts on Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security: Sen. Tom Carper (DE), Sen. Dick Durbin (IL), Sen. Mark Warner (VA).

http://heavy.com/news/2017/12/democrats-voted-against-bernie-sanders-tax-amendment-why/

OK, El Tomboto can spring into action against Warner, should he choose to accept his assignment

bcz with Dems like him, bring on Louis XV

xps sorry missed that somehow! procedural point taken

I’m at an all-day event and can’t respond to all the pro-Democrat cheerleaders in my mentions right now, so I’ll just say: *of course* no Dems voted for the bill. They’ve also failed to offer a robust countervision to oligarchy for decades, which helped set the stage for this

— Natalie Shure (@nataliesurely) December 2, 2017

democrats made this mess, left wing podcasts and socialist twitter will definitely get us out of it

there's no substitute for organizing.

maybe Dems should try their "effective messaging" DURING CAMPAIGNS

For the last forty years we were playing tiddlywinks while the Republicans were waging total war. They started with Nixon's Southern Strategy, moved onto NCPAC, Reaganism, and Gingrichism. From there it's been a steady march to kleptocracy and fascism.

The Democrats abandoned Labor in 1968 and became New Democrats Republican Lite in 1992. They have been moving steadily Right and losing at all levels. They turned into a fundraising machine with no message.

The destruction of traditional journalism and even the concepts of fact and truth has been a large part of it.

who's that from?

some rando on another message board

Say some obvious shit, blame the Dems, get quoted

Can we move the flagellation and moaning to the other thread? I’m with qualms, there’s room for two, marcos is a reactionary traditionalist

they already locked me down. we're all stuck here together. no exit!

there's no substitute for organizing.

― Simon H., Saturday, December 2, 2017 11:50 AM (twenty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otmfm

Can someone explain how Articulating a Democratic Vision would've changed the outcome this time?

there's no substitute for ACORN. james o'keefe is a "conservative" hero

The Dems didn't even flip Minchin, we were not gonna flip Collins or McCain.

Articulating the Democratic Vision starts NOW.

qualmsley i am super down with your assessment of us vs them, i agree with it. we are funnier and smarter and harder working and there are more of us. it is just so hideously demoralizing to lose despite all that

alfreed so far this week:

trump tweeted out a snuff film and embraced a hate speech organization from Britain
Flynn flipped and confirmed that Trump and Pence illegally colluded with russia to win the election
the GOP rushed a secret tax reform bill thru the senate in the dead of night and didn't let anyone read it
the GOP is pushing HARD to put a pedophile into the Senate in Alabama, and believes that its perfectly fine for 30+ year old men to fondle 14 year old girls

if we can't message with all that garbage going on, i don't know how we're ever gonna

Did Flynn’s guilty plea confirm collusion though? ABC report corrected to say he was urged to contact Russians during transition not during campaign.

Qualmsey, I refer to stopping what happened early this morning.

What’s most important is identifying incumbent Democrats to scream at. Any time spent thinking about how to throw GOP candidates out of office is obviously a snipe hunt for numbskulls and fantasists.

hear hear alfred and tracer and tombot. nerdstrom, like with papadopoulos, mueller only charged flynn with one count -- lying to the FBI -- in exchange for his cooperation. supposedly the directions to contact russia (despite sanctions!) during the transition is just the tip of the iceberg, and what's underwater is what they'll charge kushner / pence / trump(s) with. supposedly

tax the rich

that's my vision

Why even field candidates to run against GOP incumbents, when you know they'll just become a sinkhole for donations that could be going to your safe seats?

democrats need to get off their high horses and frame the opposition as effectively as the opposition frames them

republicans create huge deficits because they want to kill Social Security and Medicare and the rest of the social safety net to cut even more taxes on the rich

repeat that or something way better and laugh in their faces instead of being defensive all the fucking time like stuck-up upper middle class 'don't rock the boat'ers. jeez louise

What’s most important is identifying incumbent Democrats to scream at. Any time spent thinking about how to throw GOP candidates out of office

can you see how these are related?

Divide and conquer, my man

you can't divide me!

Democrats are tools to be used, I'm not one.

This tweet strikes me as a bad idea:

I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 2, 2017

I guess I mean I’d prefer to focus on getting Dems elected and if you want to focus on bending them left then we both get more of what we want

self-xp

Lol yeah that tweet was obviously not cleared by counsel

yeah that's nuts

those two goals are even more closely related!

together we can build a progressive renaissance, i can feel it

xxp

mr. president the russian government was under sanctions for hacking the election you "won" (and annexing the crimea). it was totally illegal you silver spoon spiral combover fake spray dipshit

pic.twitter.com/UvO6cQGcme

— Christmas (Bobby please come home) (@BobbyBigWheel) December 2, 2017

The fact that people have the “blame the Dems” reflex over a bill that wouldn’t exist if Dems were in power has a lot to do with how we ended up in this situation. It was obvious and frustrating at the time that the possibility of something like this was never a matter consequence to people you see those takes from now.

durbin was apparently the procedural vote last night btw

https://t.co/wz0QtiucKW

— Summers Brother 🍕 (@hugetinymistake) December 2, 2017

I've looked at life
From both sides now

it's bigger, it's bigger than you, and you are not me

http://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2017/11/29/johnson-amendment-nonprofits

^ one of the many achaian warriors hidden in this trojan horse of a neo-feudalist tax "reform" bill. buckle up, blue america!

Oh that’s going to be EPIC

That is some serious dumbassery if they think allowing 501c3s to openly do politics is going to benefit GOP ratfuckers in the long run.

center-left parties are being relentlessly smoked out all over the globe. the national dem apparatus had better wise up fast. the only currency these days appears to be "authenticity", in whatever form. france voted for macron as a middle finger to the inauthentic socialists (france's center-left party for decades, now polling in the single digits) and elite abuses of the system, but now they've woken up to the fact that macron's a classic centrist smoothie he is tanking. the only reason labour in the UK is doing "well" (and it's not that well, let's be real) is because of corbyn obv. we live in precarious times and the old ways are really not going to work afaict. the republicans are just doing what they do, which is letting the big dogs eat for as long as they can. like night follows day.

What bill/initiative does this tweet refer to?

If you liked this week, when Senate Dems were complaining about no bipartisanship from the openly pro-fascism & oligarchy party....you're going to love this week, when major financial deregulation cosponsored by 9 Dems on the Senate Banking Committee advances.

— sick transit, gloria (@samknight1) December 2, 2017

the only reason labour in the UK is doing "well" (and it's not that well, let's be real) is because of corbyn obv.

That's certainly not what the centre-right of the Labour Party think.

it's this beauty

https://thinkprogress.org/crapo-dems-deregulate-banks-5dab94b6ccb1/

xpost

thinking of running for local school board; my pet cause ~

The Put Up or Shut up Act of 2018

Cut all government assistance to republican voters... mortgages, student loans, business loans, etc.

We then pass single payer and excluded them from it for 20 years, while completely deregulating private insurers they are left with.
Further, we deregulate the shit out of any contracts they are entered in.
This should show them their real worth in the free market.

We can add more to this; I know there is tons because our economy is built on welfare for the wealthy and the pets they keep with government secured loans.

Anyways, when they want back in the system, we make them pass a citizenship test.

from qualmsley's helpful link

The Dem defectors come from the centrist cluster of the party. Sens. Joe Donnelly (D-IN), Heidi Heitkamp (D-ND), Tim Kaine (D-VA), Joe Manchin (D-WV), Claire McCaskill (D-MO), Gary Peters (D-MI), Jon Tester (D-MT), and Mark Warner (D-VA) all signed onto the bill after Brown’s talks with Crapo broke down.

purge *all* the "centrist" scum

Well, the Dems are probably going to lose seven of those seats over the next four years as they are in deep red states, so yay!

This tweet strikes me as a bad idea:

🐦[I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 2, 2017🕸]🐦

lol @ the idea of VA being a "deep red state"

minor victories

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/02/us-tax-bill-democrats-attack-exemption-for-college-linked-to-betsy-devos

is there any interest in fighting the real enemy you fucking foreigners

uhhh was that directed at me? cause it's assholes like the ones listed that ensure that the "real enemy" will keep winning

Don’t be the next Frederick B, Simon H

Tonight, I feel mostly regret at what could have been.

Tax reform is an issue that is ripe for bipartisan compromise. There is a sincere desire on this side of the aisle to work with the GOP, particularly on tax reform, but we have been rebuffed, time & time again

— Chuck Schumer (@SenSchumer) December 2, 2017

lol whut

yeah, if only the republicans had embraced a tax plan that spread the burden more fairly and left enough spending to keep creating job and growth. man, why didn't that happen it_is_a_mystery

I just feel exhausted by the predictability of everything today

If I make it to 67, and I just keep on doing the shit that sort of worked when I was 40 years younger, and totally ignore everything the people 20-30 years younger are telling me, please just poison me to death in my sleep.

hey my wife and I are going out to hold "EAT THE RICH" signs in the rain for a while, and then get drunk. apparently things are being planned for Monday? see you in the streets.

Ellison much closer to the rhetorical mark as usual

Trickle down economics is a proven fraud. When you give the wealthiest few a big tax cut, they do 3 things with that money:

1) Give each other bonuses
2) Engage in mega-mergers to concentrate more wealth at the top
3) Spend even more money buying political influence

— Rep. Keith Ellison (@keithellison) December 1, 2017

i watched a kewl matt bruenig video about property, and it got me thinking that we really need to commit to a reframing of the whole idea of money and property, liek IN THE OLD DAYS.

just the idea that these rich motherfuckers 'have' 'lots of money' that is 'theirs', to be taken or kept, given here or there, etc., is a stumbling block.

what they have is a big stack of permission slips that can be used to directly control the behavior of others. that's what we need to be casting as deeply immoral.

Ellison is consistently really good at messaging.

Wow lot of nonsense in this thread in the last 12 hrs

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/02/us/russia-mcfarland-flynn-trump-emails.html

She also wrote that the sanctions over Russian election meddling were intended to “lure Trump in trap of saying something” in defense of Russia, and were aimed at “discrediting Trump’s victory by saying it was due to Russian interference.”

“If there is a tit-for-tat escalation Trump will have difficulty improving relations with Russia, which has just thrown U.S.A. election to him,” she wrote.

from upthread:

promises from the Trump administration and Senate leadership: one to pass two health care bills

They promised to do a thing they demonstrably cannot do, grebt

hmmm said the quiet part loud again

center-left parties are being relentlessly smoked out all over the globe. the national dem apparatus had better wise up fast. the only currency these days appears to be "authenticity", in whatever form. france voted for macron as a middle finger to the inauthentic socialists (france's center-left party for decades, now polling in the single digits) and elite abuses of the system, but now they've woken up to the fact that macron's a classic centrist smoothie he is tanking. the only reason labour in the UK is doing "well" (and it's not that well, let's be real) is because of corbyn obv. we live in precarious times and the old ways are really not going to work afaict. the republicans are just doing what they do, which is letting the big dogs eat for as long as they can. like night follows day.

― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Saturday, December 2, 2017 1:49 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Funny but there is a clear pattern of countries abandoning their centre-left/centre parties going through traumatic crises and another set of countries that embraced their center-left/center parties who are chugging along at the top of the HDI tables, doing well economically, etc. Which makes you wonder what the shit center-left people in the US and UK really want.

The left in Britain is doing well, and it actually is left for a change - if there was an election tomorrow, you'd have Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister, and he'd be (easily) the most left winger leader in British history. If it wasn't for the fact that the genuine centre party, the Liberal Democrats, have collapsed they'd be doing even better.

It's centrist arseholes, in the tradition of Blair and Nick Clegg or, for that matter, Macron who are really floundering in the UK.

It's sort of weird that half of Twitter is like "those wussy Democrats will never figure out how to campaign on this" when Democrats have done nothing but massively overperform in every election held since Trump's inauguration, and when national Democrats have been doing nothing for the last month but blasting the message "REPUBLICANS ARE SELLING YOU OUT TO THEIR BIG-MONEY DONORS," a message which seems to have a lot of traction since the public apparently thoroughly hates this dog of a bill. So what should they be doing that they're not doing? Seems like it's gonna be "Should the government work for the billionaires or should it work for you?" non-stop from now until November 2018.

Otm

noob question from Noob Horn Street: what do you mean by national democrats?

twitter isn't helping

twitter is the worst.

noob question from Noob Horn Street: what do you mean by national democrats?

National pols like Keith Ellison, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders, Tim Kaine, Elizabeth Warren, Hillary Clinton, Kamala Harris. And red-state Dems like Jon Tester and Claire McCaskill. Message echoed pretty uniformly by local downticket pols, backed by groups like Indivisible with national reach, etc.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/how-democrats-killed-their-populist-soul/504710/

republicans are soft on national security :(

“We are committed — and we have done so on the Armed Services Committee — to increase the size of our military forces. Every additional 10,000 service members costs roughly $1.8 billion per year. Where will we get that money when we’re going $1.5 trillion in debt to provide tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans?
Anyone who is voting for this bill is essentially saying: ‘You know, I’ll talk a good story about supporting national security, but when it comes down to the money, it’s going to go to the wealthiest Americans,’.”

http://www.newsweek.com/tax-plan-military-war-north-korea-republicans-729506

People are being too hard on that Schumer quote. Holding your people together firmly in opposition while giving anodyne quotes bemoaning the lack of bipartisanship is literally the McConnell playbook

Obviously Ralph Ellison’s quote is better, but they have different jobs

Shit Keith Ellison, horrible unfortunate slip

Ok, signing off after embarrassing myself there

well now i know who Ralph Ellison is

You're right, intheblanks I'm just furious and frustrated

ralph ellison taught us how to handle seeing around corners, invisible, stoned, and otherwise. we need people like him right now

And how to not to show a visiting trustee around town

Another deeply entertaining read:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-secretive-nerve-center-of-the-mueller-investigation/2017/12/02/e6764720-d45f-11e7-b62d-d9345ced896d_story.html

Two of my favorite bits:

In the past several weeks, Mueller’s operation has reached out to new witnesses in Trump’s circle, telling them they may be asked to come in for an interview. One person who was recently contacted said it is hard to find a lawyer available for advice on how to interact with the special counsel because so many Trump aides have already hired attorneys.

---

People familiar with the Mueller team said they convey a sense of calm that is unsettling.

“These guys are confident, impressive, pretty friendly — joking a little, even,” one lawyer said. When prosecutors strike that kind of tone, he said, defense lawyers tend to think: “Uh oh, my guy is in a heap of trouble.”

our anecdotal evidence from spending 20 minutes standing in the rain with "EAT THE RICH" signs is that 30 out of 300 drivers in Eugene Oregon do, in fact, support eating the rich. I think we can work with these numbers.

have to put it out there that if it turns out flynn was an undercover agent all along, under orders from obama to head off the kremlin's maskirovska, smoke em out -- why did he issue a 2013 warning about kasperksky labs . . . then go cash in with them in 2015, post-termination? -- then i will eat my boot

Oh and about that tweet earlier -- either explanation for this new report is even more idiotic

“Trump’s lawyer John Dowd drafted the president’s tweet... Two people close to the administration described the tweet simply as sloppy and unfortunate.” https://t.co/jlqLteP3zq

— Jacob Kornbluh (@jacobkornbluh) December 2, 2017

maybe when obama told 2scoops not to hire michael flynn, he was talking shit, knowing that trump fell for the undercover sting already, and it was only a matter of time . . . either way, how is trump not guilty?

Go dougie

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/02/poll-alabama-senate-race-276019

Trump will hold a rally near the Florida-Alabama border four days before the special election

oh goody

the Florida-Alabama border

just sitting over here thinking about the Florida-Alabama border

https://www.theringer.com/tv/2017/11/28/16707524/floribama-shore-mtv-episode-one

oh my god

I'd like to hear from Johnny Fever on this one

the bar down the street has a band tonight called The Condescending Liberals (in kale-eating Brooklyn)

I don't make the zeitgeist, I just report on it.

of course MTV spelled it wrong

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Flora-Bama_-_Sign.jpg

https://www.visitpensacola.com/things-to-do/

if you segment the state names surgically, i would maintain that dat oyster bar is spelling it wrong.

true southerners all know that the i in florida is like the final s in arkansas

Well I...what?

So General Flynn lies to the FBI and his life is destroyed, while Crooked Hillary Clinton, on that now famous FBI holiday “interrogation” with no swearing in and no recording, lies many times...and nothing happens to her? Rigged system, or just a double standard?

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 3, 2017

So did the lawyer do this one too?

Many people in our Country are asking what the “Justice” Department is going to do about the fact that totally Crooked Hillary, AFTER receiving a subpoena from the United States Congress, deleted and “acid washed” 33,000 Emails? No justice!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 3, 2017

ok he scared

Did they direct this question to Jeff Sessions?

Funny you should say that!

Many people in our Country are asking what the “Justice” Department is going to do about the fact that totally Crooked Hillary, AFTER receiving a subpoena from the United States Congress, deleted and “acid washed” 33,000 Emails? No justice!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 3, 2017

Oh wait, already posted. Man he's on a tear.

he is basically the crazy, sex-assaulting, indictable uncle at this feast we call a democratic oligarchy

on one hand, it's really weird that he keeps trying to spin Flynn in a positive way (the focus in the tweet is about how his "life is destroyed", and yesterday he tweeted "It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!")...does he realize that Flynn is about to inflict pain on him and/or his family? or does he realize the power that Flynn holds right now, and so he thinks he should try to flatter and support him in an attempt to get Flynn not to talk, somehow?

don't read too much into it, as usual he's playing zero-dimensional chess here

xpost -- I think it's a dim awareness of the latter but clearly it's got to be there. And more likely both his lawyers and McGahn have been talking to him plenty these past couple of days.

lots of people talk to him all the time, it has no bearing on his "thoughts"

True but I go for the 'prospect of being hanged' canard in situations like this.

people talking to him probably just makes it worse, he can't juggle all that in his headspace

proud to say i've been to the flora-bama

how much do you think a lawyer charges to draft a tweet

& does he get paid more or paid less if Trump ignores the advice.

Jordache Acid Washed Emails

Maybe soon we'll see set up tweets for his "health-related" resignation if we're really...what word works here? Lucky?

in the spirit of trying to be optimistic, here's a hot take:

Now we get to the main point, which is that passage of this bill marks the end of Trump’s presidency. Trump (along with his supporters) seems to feel that triumphing on taxes will give him the momentum to move onto other great things. It won’t. It will offer Republicans the chance to abandon him. More than anything, this piece of legislation is what Republicans needed from the president. Trump has been a building fire that Republicans wouldn’t put out because they needed it to light their cigars. But now the G.O.P. has got what it wanted. It can puff and move along.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/12/why-trumps-tax-bill-could-be-his-death-warrant

it does make a certain amount of sense. even sweeping tax cuts for the rich, something that unites republicans of all stripes, barely passed, and they almost sabotaged the bill. but now that it's about to pass, what else do they have that everyone could agree on? seriously...maybe infrastructure week (which is sorely needed), but anything else? the "this bill marks the end of Trump's presidency" bit hyperbole, of course. there will be a strong instinct to keep the party going for as long as possible. but without a tax bill to stay united on, more republicans might end up straying away from trump in an attempt to keep their seats in 2018.

http://cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press/can-we-cut-the-crap-on-the-debt-from-the-tax-bill-hurting-our-kids

Yeah, $1.5 trillion is a REALLY BIG NUMBER (remember when the NYT committed itself to putting numbers in context?), but what does it mean in terms of commitments of future revenue?

Currently interest payments on the debt, net of the money rebated by the Federal Reserve Board, come to approximately 0.8 percent of GDP. That compares to more than 3.0 percent of GDP in the early 1990s. That sum apparently didn't bankrupt us 25 years ago, so why should we be shaking in our boots over the current burden?

Yes, adding $1.5 trillion will increase the burden. If we assume an average interest rate of 3.0 percent, that comes to $45 billion a year. In a decade that will be equal to less than 0.2 percent of GDP. Can the kids take it?

Orrin Hatch to children: drop dead

.@SenOrrinHatch talking about children's health care: “I have a rough time wanting to spend billions and billions and trillions of dollars to help people who won’t help themselves – won’t lift a finger – and expect the federal government to do everything.”

— Joe Scarborough (@JoeNBC) December 3, 2017

There's chimneys to be cleaned and matches to be sold.

it's how they really think

another sunday mornning, another playgolf twitler accusation that the former FBI director committed perjury before congress

I never asked Comey to stop investigating Flynn. Just more Fake News covering another Comey lie!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 3, 2017

re: tracer's block quote: wouldn't the relevant comparison be interest payments as a percentage of the federal budget, not of gdp? that's where we can see, pie-chart-wise, how much the obligation is closing off other possibilities. tho i recognize that this backgrounds or naturalizes efforts to shrink the pie as a whole via tax cuts.

maybe? dean baker responds to comments, i'd be interested to see what he says too

I feel like the main thrust of the debt argument is to expose gop hypocrisy and limitless bad faith but people stopped giving a shit about consistency a while back. The gops reason to exist now is tax cuts for rich people and dunking on the libs

yep, the two comments on my wife's FB feed that stuck with me were "as long as this makes Democrats upset, I'm good" and "I just want a tax cut"

maybe they're right, too, and even the libs will live happily ever after, praising trumponomics forevermore despite egg on lib faces. more likely though we're heading for another GOP recession and this time it would be nice if the left were ready to hang it all on fox / koch nation, to demoralize them the way they do everyone else (so america can hike taxes on the rich once and for all and join the rest of the civilized world)

As ever I think the tax bill serves to clarify that the GOP does not believe that the USA is a Christian nation, which either a) can impress upon voters their hypocrisy or b) can further anti-religious agendas. Some on the left may wish to work with the GOP on b), at least getting something consistent with their own hopes out of this bill.

I do not understand that post at all

Totally stupid (and wrong imo) for the Dems to pursue an "anti-religious" agenda.

Let's kiss the black and latino votes goodbye yup good idea

But maybe i'm misunderstanding that post idk

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) on Sunday said he is “going to let the people of Alabama decide” whether Alabama Republican candidate Roy Moore, who numerous women have accused of sexual misconduct, should be elected to the Senate.

“We’re going to let the people of Alabama decide, a week from Tuesday, who they want to send to the Senate, and then we’ll address the matter appropriately,” McConnell said on ABC News’ “This Week.”

“Do you believe that Judge Moore should be in the Senate?” George Stephanopoulos asked McConnell.

“I’m going to let the people of Alabama make the call,” he replied. “The Ethics Committee will have to consider the matters that have been litigated in the campaign should that particular candidate win.”

if moore is STILL elected, and the republicans do what they'll obviously do (nothing), it will have to be one of the most shameful, demoralizing moments of 2017, and the competition is fierce

But maybe i'm misunderstanding that post idk

― Οὖτις, Sunday, December 3, 2017 5:07 PM (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nah I think you're getting me: I was thinking of anti-religious leftists who could say "hey now the charade is over, let's seize the moment to push finally against religion's encroachment of the public sphere" etc. This isn't my agenda, I'm a religious leftist who's skeptical about there being stable non-religious motivations for economic leftism (if God is dead, everyone's a libertarian) but I know that I (mostly) stand alone on ILX here, so don't mind me.

"yep, the two comments on my wife's FB feed that stuck with me were "as long as this makes Democrats upset, I'm good" and "I just want a tax cut""

so if this bill winds up raising taxes on the majority of the non super rich (something I still can't sort out, plus, since they haven't reconciled the two bills that have major major conflicts in them, who even knows if that is possible), will people then abandon the GOP by 2018?

the core appeal to counter the GOP remains "you deserve a job and a doctor"

xp there was a WaPo article that estimated households that make over $75K will see $100 in tax breaks by 2019, cool what a great deal how many poor people can I kill with that again?

I don't think this is the same article, but for reference:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/what-republican-tax-plans-could-mean-for-you/

I'm a religious leftist who's skeptical about there being stable non-religious motivations for economic leftism (if God is dead, everyone's a libertarian)

this sounds a little too similar to the argument that if god didn't exist, then we'd all revert to the mindset of wild animals and start stealing and raping and looting overnight - like the only thing holding us all back from the state of nature is the idea of an omniscient spirit watching and keeping tabs on everyone. (that's a real argument - my cousin has deployed it in my facebook comments several times)

I actually thought this headline was a joke, but Roy Moore actually did escape to the Australian outback in the early 80s?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/03/why-did-roy-moore-escape-to-australia-clues-remain-in-the-outback-wilderness

KM I'm probably more amenable to that argument than you'd think possible of someone who isn't just some bumpkin, though maybe I am just some bumpkin. I've never found a stable explanation of why we should expect people to "be good, push comes to shove" that wasn't derived from some supernatural supposition. Not that those supernatural suppositions help much either, but at least it offers hope of something better.

dude there is extensive scientific evidence regarding the evolutionary benefits of cooperation

And the whole natural tendency to recognise yourself in others..

Yeah that’s a pretty wtf idea to hold onto in the 21st century.

Euler, yeah, i've heard something similar to that many times!

my main two reactions every time, while probably oversimplistic, are:

1) ...what about all the unbelievers who don't revert to pure evil once they think that no eternal presence is paying attention? are they outliers?
2) ...if you lose your faith in a caring god, should i worry about you going apeshit and stealing and murdering because there's no one keeping eternal score? or will you wake up the next day and deal with it, like the rest of us do?

I understand, I don't expect company in my views, and this surely isn't the place for discussing them. But my point here was: I'd expect some of the left to celebrate an overt act of anti-Christianity (or shall I say, anti traditional morality) amongst their enemies.

xp
1) habits are more important than beliefs
2) see 1). it'll take a while for traditions like "care for others like you care for yourself" to dissipate, so until then the habits will persist. Few people are interested in outright revolt against traditional morality, and frequently what one takes to be such revolt, isn't, upon further inspection.

Evolution can explain why people would cooperate with members of their own “tribe,” but moral universalism seems like it might come out of religious traditions, at least originally. The Enlightenment was fundamentally about promoting universalism and grounding it in reason but since Nietzsche lots of people like to say that that project failed.

Trump was so terrifying because he exploded the old assumption that “in the end” American politicians need to pay lip service to some universal morality (even Bush was careful to say that America was at war with extremism, not Islam, that all the world’s religions deserved equal respect, etc.) Trump appealed explicitly to tribalism, and propped it up with (not entirely wrong) arguments about how the rhetoric of inclusivity and openness had been used to prop up neoliberal economic policies that hurt the American middle class. Hillary Clinton had nothing to say to this so she lost.

By pitting tribalism against the universalism of the elites, Trump was playing the most dangerous card in politics — the fascist card. If we are going to stop future Trumps and Bannonite right wingers, economic justice — Morbs’ “job and a doctor” line — needs to be the center of the program. If people are going to buy into the idea that they live in a society with others who are just as valuable as they are, they need to see how buying into this idea would benefit them. Apparently they were too dumb to understand on their own that they rely every day on public utilities, schools, etc.

Lads

That's right

I didn't even post it on the lads thread

And also — to follow Euler — if these people are believing Christians, maybe that could be a part of the appeal to pry them away from the Republicans’ war on society in the name of capital. The Pope criticizes Republican economic ideology all the time.

Self xp. Hi deems

The left going pro-religion post 1970 or so seems always to founder on sex. One approach is to ride those worries ("no, we're not *really* for gay marriage") but that's run its course (thank goodness). But another approach is to promote some kind of "responsible bacchanalia". Your Trumps, they like to party but they wreck the car every time. We're gonna party too but we'll do it in a responsible way, with consent, protections against pregnancy, legal weed but not horse. At least it would be more interesting than the "responsible oligarchy" of the Dems today.

a false binary perhaps but nevertheless: is it more important to flip rightwing voters into voting D /or/ to motivate nonvoters into voting (if R not just D then so be it)?

The latter

I don’t think these goals are opposed. I also think the current sutuation — this fundamental antagonism between “red” and “blue” America, with great hostility on both sides — is extremely toxic and, left to fester, will have unpredictable effects, so there are reasons beyond short term electoral victory to try to overcome it. But this is not a point of view many others on ILX seem to share.

voter turnout is, in many ways, the single most important issue

so if this bill winds up raising taxes on the majority of the non super rich (something I still can't sort out, plus, since they haven't reconciled the two bills that have major major conflicts in them, who even knows if that is possible), will people then abandon the GOP by 2018?

What I take from the charts here is that by the time of the next elections, those income brackets that vote R in the largest numbers will still be seeing a benefit, while those that are least likely to vote R will be punished, and the greatest number of people will really start to feel the cuts only after a potential second Trump term has ended and he has been replaced.

If dems manage to get more of a foothold in Congress and state gov, #2 would be combating the many forms of disenfranchisement.

xp

I mean, idk if it's the 'greatest number' exactly but the fabled (lower to middle?) 'middle class' in the 40K-75K bracket could still be seeing a benefit in 2025 (defining "benefit" strictly in personal financial terms). xp

Trump [...] propped it up with (not entirely wrong) arguments about how the rhetoric of inclusivity and openness had been used to prop up neoliberal economic policies that hurt the American middle class. Hillary Clinton had nothing to say to this so she lost.

Wtf?

Enfranchisement is the #1 issue. There are nearly 5 million Americans with no voting representation at all that’s worth a damn

xp he's saying she's an oligarch who lacks credibility to resist that argument

xp, eg, Obama, in his final speech as president, saying Americans shouldn’t be afraid of other cultures, religiions, and — notably, seemingly incongruously — free markets, as if these were all the same. For decades neoliberalism has been sold by Democrats as a kind of tolerant cosmopolitanism. I think people came to see the way liberalism had disrupted culture as of a piece with the way neoliberalism had distupted their economic lives. They felt like they were being attacked from multiple sides. They were primed for a radically anti-liberalism, anti-openness message which Trump sold them.

part of the reason obama won was because he was cooler than mccain / romney. sucks to say but trump was cooler than hillz (whom this nerd was happy to vote for!). dems could do worse than work on their 'republicans have jumped the shark' game, up their strut, and make it easier on joe/jane six pack to pay attention to them. the masses loitering outside the gates of dante's inferno might respond to a show of confidence and even cockiness in the name of hiking taxes on generational money families and their capital gains

They were also provoked by a black man explaining things to them.

xp, eg, Obama, in his final speech as president, saying Americans shouldn’t be afraid of other cultures, religiions, and — notably, seemingly incongruously — free markets

notably I can't find this in his speech, cite?

is it more important to flip rightwing voters into voting D /or/ to motivate nonvoters into voting (if R not just D then so be it)?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politics/popular-vote-turnout-2016/index.html

voter turnout was at a 20 year low. declining to chase the non-voters by ignoring the anti-war (this is where you will find left religious support) and genuinely leftist/socially progressive/activist policy rather than continued neolib pro-violence pro-establishment centrism is an abdication of responsibility. nearly half the country did not vote. these are votes just sitting there, people that did not vote for Trump.

sending people to coal mine ghost towns to interview Trump voters so that you can performatively mindread is a huge waste of time. Democrats need to expand their base and try to represent as many people as possible. how hard is this? there are many on the left they are ignoring. these votes are sitting there. expand the platform. invite people with real grassroots support to positions of genuine power rather than superficially exploiting then for optics. people are genuinely wanting things to change, the apparatus just needs to get the fuck out of its own way.

Treeship, are you just making shit up or has someone told you this crap? This is Obama's final speech: http://beta.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-obama-farewell-speech-transcript-20170110-story.html What the fuck are you talking about?

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.91174614.7263/flat,800x800,075,t.u1.jpg

Back in to the E Street Band?

Adam Bruneau: OTM.

the shirt nerd will save us

Rather like yr presidency, there's one R too many in that for ilx

Honestly not sure which r you wanna take out there

lol

Oh raggett is beyond reproach and this can be taken as read

Read Naggett

But yes, lol

Voter turnout was higher in 2016 than 2012. This despite the voter suppression efforts of the Rs.

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/324206-new-report-finds-that-voter-turnout-in-2016-topped-2012

that can't possibly be right

huh, nope, apparently I was wrong abt Trump getting less than Romeny

you have to assume, even if you're wrong, that trump won fairly and that this is the will of the people - it is the only way you'll turn it around

sell them a dream and they'll buy it

it's not the will of the people, though, on the raw numbers alone, so that's a very stupid thing to say

Lost the popular vote by literally millions, so yeah

it was the will of enough people. sell them a better dream than this. shouldn't be hard

Net spend

it was the will of enough people. sell them a better dream than this. shouldn't be hard

how are you dismissing the roles of gerrymandering, voter suppression, Facebook and the entire role of the electoral college? one by one, please

All in a group: it worked

Sunglasses drop

lol at the continuing sore-losermans itt

qualmsley & Adam otm and i move to nominate to the ilx standing committee of thoughtful political motherfuckers

62 years ago this week, a brave seamstress in Montgomery, Alabama uttered one word that changed history... pic.twitter.com/eOvCBcMIKX

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 2, 2017

If only Rosa Parks had been alive and standing next to him, he would have had jokes.

(Sorry about ruining everyone's day with that video clip.)

Clinton labor secretary Robert Reich seems pretty otm on the party's ills, though of course his take on "reforming" capitalism is dopey as hell

http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/presidents-obama-clinton-failed-defend-middle-class-robert-reich-2621714

xp jesus fucking christ, that takes the bloody cake

http://www.businessinsider.com/hope-hicks-trump-pants-2017-12

"GET THE MACHINE!"

Our president is Mr. Creosote

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/03/trump-mitt-romney-utah-senate-hatch-276805

man even the 70-year-olds get the shaft in this gerontocracy

"God d----t, Hope!" Trump exclaimed. "How the hell could you forget the machine?"

He added that Hicks was taken aback by Trump's offer to join the campaign, which she mistook as an offer to work at on a public relations campaign for one of his golf clubs.

.. , the seven iron ..

That is an amazing (if too hueg for ILX) photo at the top of the Politico Mitt story.

Yr not wrong

On the Alabama race

I read somewhere that Moore leads among white women by an absurd figure

Is the Patribotics blog remotely reliable? This seems big:

On June 9th, in the United States District Court of the Eastern District of New York, Judge Orenstein slapped down Jeff Sessions as he attempted to force the service provider on James Comey’s phone to assist Sessions with continuing an SS7 exploit placed there by the consent of James Comey, and lawfully, in order to help Comey in his criminal investigation of Donald Trump and Russia.

Separate sources with links to the intelligence and justice communities are clear that the ‘witness’ in this case is James Comey, the ‘software solution’ is the SS7 exploit used on his phone by consent, and that his phone was recording, again, by consent, and as part of a lawful criminal investigation that included Donald Trump, all his conversations for well over a year. This would mean that the FBI had essentially used Director Comey’s cell phone to monitor suspects in the Trump Russia case since before the beginning of June, 2016. This is very, very bad news for Mr. Trump. If Trump, as he is openly threatening, prepares to fire Special Counsel Mueller, parts of these tapes may be leaked to the general public. The court case itself, with the names of the witness and his cell phone provider redacted, is open, public record, but sources linked to the intelligence community have confirmed the witness to be Director Comey, giving the document an extraordinary significance.

James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 12, 2017

This is very, very bad news for Mr. Trump.

"THIS is what we'll finally get him on" is the new "Lucy holds the football."

Is the Patribotics blog remotely reliable?

Uh, no:

Patribotics is the blog of British-American author Louise Mensch.

I think that patribotics thing seems mensch-y, particularly this bit:

The front-facing of Director Comey’s identity to Patribotics may be taken as a warning shot on Mueller. As I have previously reported, Donald Trump is under a criminal indictment, and Director Comey decided he himself might need to be fired in order to advance the narrative away from himself and towards Donald Trump’s criminal actions. Sources report the Articles of Impeachment being considered by the Judiciary Committee have now advanced further and the language of them is presently being worked upon for presentation to Congress, at which point, the criminal indictment granted against Trump will be made public.

oh lol it actually is her, huh

Full Nixon!

John Dowd, President Trump’s outside lawyer, outlined to me a new and highly controversial defense/theory in the Russia probe: A president *cannot* be guilty of obstruction of justice.

The “President cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer under [the Constitution’s Article II] and has every right to express his view of any case,” Dowd claims.

Dowd says he drafted this weekend’s Trump tweet that many thought strengthened the case for obstruction: The tweet suggested Trump knew Flynn had lied to the FBI when he was fired, raising new questions about the later firing of FBI Director James Comey. Dowd: “The tweet did not admit obstruction. That is an ignorant and arrogant assertion.”

https://www.axios.com/exclusive-trump-lawyer-claims-the-president-cannot-obstruct-justice-2514742663.html

that didn't take long

lmao at Mensch-posting (I know it was inadvertent)

Sorry bout that. I've tried to trim my twitter feed of the Louise Menschs and Claude Taylors of the world, but this leaked into my feed via Eric Garland. Good bye Eric.

Every once in a while I see what Garland is up to lately and he seems to get more unhinged by the tweet.

Just read the last post and thought you meant Merrick Garland, my response was "well yeah, I probably would be too in his situation"

hmmm so the president IS justice, sounds watertight

http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DOcRt3YUbN0k&ved=0ahUKEwjP-8X31vDXAhWK34MKHfJLBrgQtwIIeDAU&usg=AOvVaw29nxwDJ60q9JROf9iBWbCZ

hmmm so the president IS justice, sounds watertightgate

― 'cause there's always been an it i can't truss (Doctor Casino), Monday, December 4, 2017 10:33 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

More and more resembling the defence of Charles I when accused of treason by Cromwell and the Parliamentarians, here's hoping the outcome is the same, exactly the same.

In the Watch-What-He-Does-Not-What-He-Says department https://t.co/sY8GAlcGIx

— corey robin (@CoreyRobin) December 4, 2017

have you heard lindsay's latest though?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-usa-graham/pentagon-should-move-u-s-dependents-out-of-south-korea-due-to-north-korean-threat-senator-idUSKBN1DX0OU

graham wants it. he loves war.

Trump still mad that the Air Force wouldn't blow up the helicopter as he was walking away.

Well he wasn't in it anymore, so I would have refused as well.

hmmm so the president IS justice, sounds watertight

lol I was trying to think earlier of some "Trump thinks he's Judge Dredd but is actually Judge ____" analogy but couldn't make it work

Judge Shithead

Pudge Fed

Mike Judge

Moore? Reinhold?

Judge Mentimpaired?

Judy

lol

Actually I take that back; Judge Judy has been right more often than Trump has.

lol

http://news.gallup.com/poll/223124/democratic-party-maintains-edge-party-affiliation.aspx?g_source=Politics&g_medium=lead&g_campaign=tiles

Even MORE fun.

CNN confirms that WH lawyer Don McGann told Trump that NSA Michael Flynn lied to the FBI. Trump refused to fire Flynn until the WaPo article came out nearly two weeks later.

— Mr. Smith (@GuardianRover) December 4, 2017

You gotta wait for the fake news to weigh in.

Here's the full story. Is McGahn himself behind this leak?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/04/politics/wh-lawyer-told-trump-flynn-misled-fbi-pence/index.html

There's some further interesting timing to note here as well -- McGahn was interviewed by Mueller's team on Thursday. This was going to continue Friday but this was rescheduled by the team given the Flynn news, and is -- last I heard -- continuing today.

as a followup to "complicit," I am assuming 2018's word of the year will be "kleptocracy"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNkVqwWAAAQIE-.jpg:small

I'm beginning to wonder if this whole 'no obstruction!' thing is just an honest misunderstanding based on Trump's limited vocabulary, as he was probably only previously familiar with the term as a descriptor for the GI ailment that makes him black out on the toity mid-tweet.

i'm beginning to wonder if willoughby in that ozark mountain movie (three billboards in ebbing missouri is robert mueller and we're all frances mcdormand because that makes more sense than whatever the hell 2scoops is up to

Real lawyers correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it Dowd claiming he, not Trump, wrote that one dubious tweet potentially transforms Dowd into a Mueller witness (because he has to prove Trump didn't write the suspicious tweet in question), which in turn potentially nullifies lawyer-client confidentiality rules.

Been seeing comments to exactly that effect.

fuckin' laws, how do they work?

Fake laws.