Dynasty, s3: Canadian Politics 2018

I don't know how the Ontario Liberals manage to do it but the new labour legislation Bill 148 might actually get me to vote for the fuckers one more time, after I was sure I was done with them by 2010 or so. These are some of the most sweeping protections for temporary and part-time workers I've seen any government implement. The way e.g. Tim Hortons franchises are responding to the minimum wage increases are mostly serving to make them look ridiculous. I'm glad I'm not seeing much serious support for the corporations in this regard.

Yeah, in my circles Tim's and other businesses like Cineplex have been roundly mocked for their responses but uhhh given the nature of those circles I don't know if I can trust that there isn't a significant chunk of the country that doesn't buy the crocodile tears

I hate that we have to fight and scrap for even the incredibly modest gains like the ones in Bill 148

this is the story of my post post-secondary life

Moved from the 2017 thread:

What it comes down to, imho, at least these days, is that laïcité is used by some in Quebec as an excuse for all-out xenophobia, while others are aware of its risks yet knowingly cling to it in spite of its bad rep in the anglophone world because they believe that religion represents a dormant threat to modern societies. Quebec's relative outspokenness in the latter department is sometimes an awful thing (re: that superfluous burqa ban), sometimes a great one (I say this as someone who would never consider moving back to my home country, Romania, in no small part due to its increasingly theocratic, i.e. openly homophobic, sexist and racist, ideology).

― pomenitul, Tuesday, December 26, 2017 11:32 AM (two weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I would agree it is sometimes a great one if the catholic religion was making a big comeback but it isn't. After all, the cross in the national assembly is here to stay. Really the only target is different very small religious minorities.

― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, January 9, 2018 8:09 PM (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebec-opposition-parties-balk-at-marking-mosque-shooting-with-day-of-action/article37538523/?cmpid=rss&click=sf_globefb

But this week, the province's two main opposition parties made it clear that, while they support a commemoration, they believe Islamophobia is a loaded term.
The Parti Quebecois says the term is too controversial, while the Coalition Avenir Quebec deems the word inappropriate because Quebecers "are not Islamophobic."

Ihsaan Gardee, director of the Muslim council, attributed the parties' position to identity politics in an election year in Quebec.

"In our view, when arguing semantics, it draws attention away from the core issues of hate and Islamophobia and anti-Muslim discrimination that are being discussed and how to effectively address them," Gardee said Tuesday.

― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, January 9, 2018 8:12 PM (forty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The whole Netflix thing is so weird. I subscribe to Netflix so I don't really mind it not being taxed but it seems ridiculously unfair that Canadian companies that offer streaming services have to be taxed but any foreign companies offering the same service are not required to be taxed. Just seems like an obvious loophole that should be closed (either by taxing everyone or no one) and I don't even get why anybody is debating this.

― silverfish, Wednesday, December 27, 2017 12:23 AM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The alternative would be a special Netflix tax that would go to help funding Canadian cinema and television series. A bunch of european countries went this route, Germany and France notably. As you know I am certain, instead of that tax, Joly basically bargained with Netflix that they invest 500 millions here in Canada. I really do believe that Melanie Joly is making sure the 500 millions investment is managed by Netflix because 1. Telefilm has been absolutely incompetent at building up a lucrative film industry in Canada whereas Netflix has the strong incentive of building a more efficient and larger infrastructure, retaining talent, etc 2. Netflix is already a much better international distributor than anything Can-Con has ever had access to, 3. Ubisoft (a foreign company) and Cirque du Soleil (a Canadian one) have been successful content creating companies that got shit tons of subsidies (much more than Netflix is getting at the moment), 4. there was a danger that that big three telecoms was going to gobble up the entire private film/tv series content creation market, now there is not only one but two different alternative paths.

I am still not under 100% sure this is best idea. But I am certain that doing nothing would have been way worse.

― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, January 9, 2018 8:23 PM (thirty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a long time coming

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-united-states-trade-complaint-1.4480738

Canada appeared to be mounting a case on behalf of the rest of the world, since it cited almost 200 examples of alleged U.S. wrongdoing, almost all of them concerning other trading partners, such as China, India, Brazil and the European Union.

The 32-page complaint homed in on technical details of the U.S. trade rulebook, ranging from the U.S. treatment of export controls to the use of retroactive duties and split decisions by the six-member U.S. International Trade Commission.

Wow

Btw re

Yeah, in my circles Tim's and other businesses like Cineplex have been roundly mocked for their responses but uhhh given the nature of those circles I don't know if I can trust that there isn't a significant chunk of the country that doesn't buy the crocodile tears

― Simon H., Tuesday, 9 January 2018 09:25 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I thought that it was interesting that Michael Coren, who can be very conservative (at least on social issues) came out so strongly against the corporations and in favour of the raise. The CBC business panel I watched the other day was also mostly supportive. Even the Ontario PCs mostly seem to agree with a $15 minimum wage but want to get there a little slower.

Looks like it might finally happen:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trade-nafta-canada-exclusive/exclusive-canada-increasingly-sure-trump-to-pull-plug-on-nafta-sources-idUSKBN1EZ2K4

Well, that would be interesting. Wonder what would happen to my job.

:(

sending good vibes yr way sund4r

as long as you don't mind living in canada, it's not so bad once canadians have good work experience stateside and then return home

it would suck having to end your stay prematurely due to this though

i became a us citizen half a year ago but will end up moving back for good probably in a year

Thanks, guys. Tbh, I already consider coming back, for reasons I won't go into fully (but I'm spending a third of the year in Canada as it is; long distance relationships are hard). There's no guarantee I'd be renewed for another year anyway and I could probably come in on another visa if I had to. Still, it definitely raises questions.

Interesting - BC Supreme Court rules that indefinite solitary confinement is unconstitutional: https://bccla.org/2018/01/bc-supreme-court-ends-indefinite-solitary-confinement-federal-prisons-across-canada/

Also, not sure what to make of these exemptions to the new labour legislation that the Ontario legislature passed last week. A little disappointed: http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/provinces-new-wage-laws-wont-apply-to-film-and-tv-workers-or-students-18-and-under

holy moly, patrick brown

yeah just read the details of the allegations, jfc

I'm re-watching Season 5 of the Wire and last night watched the episode where Carcetti and Norman are watching Rupert Bond's press conference on Clay Davis' indictment. Norman to Carcetti: "You'll need to have a comment. Try not to sound too gleeful about it."

My first thought after hearing it this morning was that this was probably Kathleen Wynne and her chief of staff's first exchange this morning.

Haven't read the details and probably don't want to. Ugh, good riddance.

conservatives in this country are really hard to distinguish from maga chuds. twitter comments on any media accounts regarding the brown story are all about feeling sorry for patrick brown and thinking its a conspiracy theory.

Could be nothing. On the other hand...

http://warrenkinsella.com/2018/01/column-metoo-isnt-just-coming-to-political-canada-its-here/

Wow @ the hints in the comments.

If this turns out to be real that's....going to be one hell of a thing.

I know someone who has worked with a prominent provincial politician here in B.C. who sexually harassed her and who was just generally a pig around the office. It would be huge news if it ever gets out.

don't know this guy, but:

Intern scandal brewing in Ottawa as the #metoo movement meets Justin Trudeau. Story soon.

— Andrew Krystal (@AndrewKrystal) January 30, 2018

his timeline is a treat. Gregg Zaun and Christie Blatchford retweets.

if it is him, this would be awfully brazen: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-careful-metoo-1.4511093

i kinda doubt it's him, just bcz of the wording of the kinsella piece. but if it is, that would be pretty insane.

to my scandal-loving disappointment, Kinsella intimated that Trudeau was not the figure he was writing about:

The Internet is a vanity press for the deranged https://t.co/00iFn6Jy0n

— Warren Kinsella (@kinsellawarren) January 30, 2018

maybe it's his dude gerald butts?

my scandal-loving disappointment

I've never voted for the Liberals federally but this is still relieving to me.

Nova Scotia mayor comes out

Glad now it's 'in all of us command' instead of 'in all our sons command'.

i've been parsing that line wrong all along. i always thought the patriot love was in "thy sons' command". possessive sons', command as a noun.

Wait, I've read it that way my whole life. It only just occurred to me that it makes more sense if "command" is a verb and "sons" is plural. Speaking to Canada in the imperative still seems odd, though.

Yep, me too.

I think I probably did think about it once or twice and then forgot. If the original line was "thou dost in us command" as per [Removed Illegal Link], that is a much better line than either the one we grew up with or this new one. Are we also going to take the cross out of the French lyrics? Lol j/k.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4002268/oh-canada-originally-gender-neutral/

I keep trying to imagine this happening to the White House and failing: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/24-sussex-drive-trudeau-not-living-1.4511732

This seems like a good history of the anthem: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/o-canada/

In The Common School Book of Vocal Music, published by the Educational Book Company of Toronto in 1913, the original line "True patriot love thou dost in us command" was changed to "True patriot love in all thy sons command." This particular change was also included in a version published by Delmar in 1914, and in all versions printed thereafter. There is no evidence as to why the change to “sons” was made, although it is worth noting that the women’s suffrage movement was at its most militant and controversial around 1913, and by 1914 and 1916 there was an enormous surge of patriotism during the First World War, at a time when only men could serve in the armed forces.

I figured the 'thy sons' version probably took off because of the war, but didn't connect it to the suffragettes.

Up to the middle of the 20th century, public discussion relating to the anthem, evidenced by letters to the editor in the country’s major newspapers, tended to revolve around the appropriateness of the phrase “stand on guard for thee” and the controversy associated with the tune’s perceived similarity to Mozart’s “March of the Priests.”

My view, having had to listen to the damn song every morning for years, is that we ban it forever and enjoy some peace and quiet.

today in "not The Onion"

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/justin-trudeau-interrupts-woman-during-qa-to-tell-her-to-use-the-word-peoplekind-not-mankind-a3759316.html

(also, "peoplekind" is hilariously clunky. why not "humankind"?)

he is such a high school teacher

Me cause human contains the word “man.” Sexist.

Srsly, though, what a peoplegling of the language.

Stupid phone. *because

“Me cause earthquake! Cave dilettante strong!”

I'm gonna start using hupeoplekind

so inclusive

i kinda think trudeau was kidding actually

I think he meant it as a bit of light ribbing. He wasn't mansplaining. The full question is at 1:06:38 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3988&v=JDAYH0GSDWs

(also, "peoplekind" is hilariously clunky. why not "humankind"?)

"Humanity" is a perfectly good actual English word but it does seem like ribbing (someone who was asking a very long and convoluted question) in context.

I'm not a biologist but I'm p sure "maternal love" is not the actual definition of "mitochondria" btw.

good old "people" is fine

though high school teacher will knock off points for being ambiguous by using the word "people" (in chicken scratch along the margin: who? what people? be specific. -5)

Yeah, my Apple Oxford dictionary defines "mankind", "humanity", and "people" almost exactly the same way: "human beings considered collectively".

"dumb joke" says trudeau

also "person up" is kind of funny

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/justin-trudeau-says-peoplekind-remark-was-a-dumb-joke/article37889426/

The media's being obtuse on this one. It was pretty clearly a joke if you watched the full clip.

yeah it was a joke and the person he was talking to was a dumbass making a stupid point iirc?

Totally. I'm guessing that most people probably don't have the patience to sit through her entire 'question' so they want to get mad at either political correctness or mansplaining instead.

I am glad for any chance to dunk on JT so I'm a bit disappointed it was undeserved for once tbh

Anyway, this is distracting from the Philippines helicopter sale which is what should really be the subject of national discussion (and won't be)

the trudeau audience member question was thinly-veiled proselytizing for World Mission Society Church of God. i'd call it a cult. you can google it and decide for yourself.

so we all buying some BC wine this week to show where we stand in the big trade war?

With all the press he's getting, it just occurred to me that Jordan Peterson might make a more effective CPC leader than Andrew Scheer (or possibly anyone); then it occurred to me that the CPC and Peterson might realize this soon enough; then I felt ill.

Apparently he had considered running for conservative leadership (can't remember if it was provincially in Ontario or federally) but decided his work is too important or whatever - aka he's making a lot of money doing what he's doing and knows that political leadership would be more taxing and less lucrative than writing self-help manuals.

Sund4r, I'm going through a bit of a rough patch at the moment and today felt a little lighter. Until I read your comment.

where do canadian olympic stories go?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/doping-controversy-leads-to-verbal-spat-between-canadian-russian-at-olympics/article37896346/

^ this is cringey

Acquittal in the Colten Boushie killing.

I'm trying to follow the details of Stanley's version. For it to have gone the way he says, all of these have to be true: a) he mistook how many bullets he put in his gun, b) he pulled the trigger more times than the number of bullets he thought he put in, c) for no reason, he believed his wife was under the truck, d) for no reason, he pointed his gun at Colten Boushie's head, e) he had an exceedingly rare hang fire of more than a fraction of a second. Practically any shooting could be given a story like that.

I also don't know why this wasn't pressed further, i.e. had it been a hang fire with the barrel extended, the casing should have stayed in the gun, I think? (I don't have a good sense of how a semi-automatic pistol works so don't know what weight to give this):

Burge asking how if the barrel was extended, was there a spent casing in the vehicle. If the gun looked like that, with the slide locked back, Burge contends, the casing should not have been ejected.

— Charles Hamilton (@_chamilton) February 5, 2018

Has anyone been following the story of Morgane Oger, VP of the BC NDP, publicly requesting the identity of a woman who carried an anti-transgenderism sign and publicly contemplating a human rights complaint? I feel like there might be a legitimate free speech issue here but it is hard for me to find information on it outside social media and blogs that have a strong slant, such as Feminist Current (Meghan Murphy, CW for trans-exclusionary feminism). Afaik, the party itself has not commented officially.

Yeah. Know all about it. Murphy and her cohort of sock puppets are transphobic bullies. Nicely aligned with a large group of anti-trans right-wing evangelists who also hate Morgane because of the gender/sex Ed program they are trying to ban from schools out in loservelle BC. Morgane’s a very vocal supporter/activist in the BC school system. Lovely bunch.

A lot of the names on the “open letter” (groan) are fake, anonymous or in one case fraudulent.

And as probably highest profile trans person in Canada Morgan’s a huge target for these bozos.

I don't think it's at all clear that Oger is calling for the woman to be punished for hate speech...I think she wants to start a dialogue, which is generous of her

https://imgur.com/a/hflMa

https://imgur.com/gallery/Yt6i3

I might agree with a Conservative senator?: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/02/13/iranian-canadian-professor-died-by-suicide-in-tehran-lawmakers-confirm.html

I don't think it's at all clear that Oger is calling for the woman to be punished for hate speech...I think she wants to start a dialogue, which is generous of her

Fair point but where will Oger take this if the woman is unconvinced by the dialogue?

tbh i didn't read up to the beginning of the twitter thread, just the link and the wonderful arguments after, so Oger says she may reluctantly consider a human rights tribunal complaint...which I hope she doesn't

You can't make a complaint against an individual. The context is that the woman with the anti-trans sign was one of a handful of people who attended the Women's March to protest a trans-woman being invited speak on the main stage (not Morgane Oger though she was present.) You could theoretically make a HR complaint against the organisers of the march for not providing a safe environment free from hate speech. Oger's is not going to do that since the organisers are not anti-trans types. Maybe the woman was there as part of some kind of organisation, so a complaint could be made there. But I doubt Oger would bother as she's otherwise said a few times she's reserving her activism to systemic problems ie. not going after outliers like these TERFs.

Not to say it's not concerning or serious but it blew up because of Twitter and it's kinda a social media mess. The march was otherwise a big success.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-speech-indigenous-rights-1.4534679

So the verdict in the trial over the killing of Colten Boushie has spurred the liberals to do something, what it will be remains to be seen.

There are no second acts in Canadian lives. Unless you really hurry.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/pc-leadership-committee-approves-patrick-brown-candidacy-1.4544843

I hope he wins, if only because it would be the most hilariously pointless outcome

this ontario PC race is a hilarious clusterfuck, but if 2016 is any indication hilarious clusterfucks will lead to Premier Doug Ford

Totally possible. The Ontario PCs have proven themselves to be good at losing elections, though.

A lot of the new federal budget sounds like it might be good: investment in conservation, rural broadband, reviewing dismissed sexual assault cases in particular. It'll all depend on what actually gets done with the money, though. Still seems a little incredible to remember that the same party were vicious deficit hawks just 20 years ago.

I'm mostly just sad at what a shambles the provincial and federal NDP are. I would be taking joy in how badly the Tories are fucking up otherwise.

I can cut the federal party some slack given that Singh has only been leader for five months; I do expect some real leadership from him, especially on pharmacare. I'll admit that I often drift out of Ontario provincial politics over the last couple of years but I honestly don't really have much of a sense of what the Ontario NDP is about at this point (other than wanting to distance themselves from Bob Rae's government of over 20 years ago, and for the wrong reasons). My sense is that both parties had been moving significantly to the centre and then were caught off guard when the Liberals tacked a little to the left?

Which - imo, Ontario Liberals have done a lot right and a lot wrong and a credible left alternative could be worthwhile!

Yes, exactly. My sense is provincial NDP have been so bloodless for so long that the slight left tack by the Libs has left them shaken.

I thought this was a pretty good overview of a strange blind spot in Canadian politics: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/atwal-sikh-trudeau-conservatives-1.4559830

Wow @ http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-government-drug-funding-1.3395871

Waiting around for this PC result, which will decide how tricky my vote will be in the election (i.e., whether or not Ford wins). How in the hell can you be late announcing the results when no actual voting took place today?

1) Malfunctioning voting machine--surprise; 2) Half-a-percent difference, presumably between Ford and Elliott.

Why are they fussing then? Doesn't that mean they have to go to a second ballot?

Love this photo (from last year).

http://tvo.org/sites/default/files/blog-thumbnails/Brian_and_Caroline_Mulroney.jpg

They're saying she's last on the first ballot.

finding this very confusing

I think Rob Ford will be our largest province's next premier, which might pause Canadian smugness about Trump for about 45 seconds

why would ford winning make your voting decision tricky?

BREAKING: A senior official with direct knowledge of the results tells me that Doug Ford won the Ontario PC leadership race in the initial count and that Christine Elliott is demanding a recount. #onpoli #pcpoldr. pic.twitter.com/urSPg4s4bJ

— Mike Crawley (@CBCQueensPark) March 10, 2018

love to live in H E L L W O R L D

If Mulroney had won, the thread title would have become even more apt.

why would ford winning make your voting decision tricky?

If Mulroney had won--which I guess was never realistic--I would have just voted NDP (somewhat reluctantly; I pretty much always vote Liberal) and not given a second thought to strategic voting or whatever; she seems like a fairly mushy centrist. With Ford, though--who I truly despise--I'll wait and see what's what come election week. Wynne is so unpopular, that it probably won't make a difference, I'll still vote NDP. But if somehow she rallied and it were close between Wynne and Ford, I'd have to consider voting Wynne--which, as a teacher, I swore I'd never do again after she screwed us a couple of years ago.

I left the house at 4:30 for a movie downtown, just got back. Glad I didn't miss anything...what a joke.

Ugh.

I absolutely do not get why a party poised to win an election--even after the Patrick Brown circus--would hand things over to a guy as volatile and divisive as Ford, never mind the baggage he brings in because of his brother. I know--Trump. He won. My mystification means nothing with the electorate today.

I may again see if there's a close riding here and volunteer with some NDP candidate (which worked out so well last time...).

god this would be a FANTASTIC time for the provincial NDP to not be a milquetoast non-entity

Something I don't understand: how do you conduct a multi-ballot nomination in advance? Were voters filling out cards that had all the possible scenarios for a second, third, and fourth ballot?

I love that the PCs were finally kicked out so that the ballroom could be prepped for a (not gay, sadly) wedding.

darkest timeline strikes again. the PC fuckfaces have the next one in the bag, they could have nominated that serial killer dude and it would not have made much of a difference. my only hope about four beers in is that they are held to a minority and eventually eat doug ford alive

clem is your riding now NDP or Lib? I think volunteering is always a good idea. And if I was in Ontario I think I would have to vote strategically, even tho it could be confusing who actually has the best chance in a given riding. God bless FPTP

I think the PC used a ranked ballot that couldn't be changed after each round of voting. Apparently lots of the Mulroney voters didn't bother listing a second choice, which could have swung it away from Ford.

I'm Etobicoke Centre, currently Liberal (and Liberal since 2003). Because of my animus towards Wynne mentioned above, I wouldn't want to volunteer for a Liberal candidate. If I do volunteer, then, I'll go out of riding.

(xpost) That makes sense. It really doesn't acknowledge the back-and-forth of an open convention, though--for the reason you mention, and also just the emotion of the moment. I'd like to think enough people would have been scared off by the reality of we're-about-to-elect-Ford to give them pause on that third ballot.

even besides the typo ("overcrwoding") this is a pretty lackluster statement out of the gate

https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/cut-and-privatize-ford-stark-contrast-andrea-horwath

Was hoping for a messy, weeks-long protraction, but not to be.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-christine-elliott-meeting-1.4571798

Brutal!: https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018/03/10/brutal-canada-has-outsmarted-our-politicians-for-decades-trump-says.html

Lol: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-trump-boasts-that-he-made-up-trade-facts-in-meeting-with-trudeau/

That Trump, what a card!

Howarth's NDP looking to roll out a pleasingly progressive set of priorities. Wynne's response makes pretty clear the Libs don't consider them much of a threat.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/03/17/ndp-promises-to-give-ontario-full-dental-coverage-repay-student-loans.html

Indeed, she's gonna have to do a hell of a job selling ON voters on the NDP as a viable option.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/03/17/progressive-conservatives-driving-towards-majority-government-poll-suggests.html

I don't know if it's a bad habit that's exacerbated by living in Quebec or if it's simply because I'm fed up with all things political of late, but I can't bring myself to truly care for what goes on in other provinces, except maybe Ontario every now and then (et encore…). Alberta, for instance, feels like a different country to me, no doubt for misguided reasons. Is this indifference as prevalent in the rest of Canada?

I think so, yes. My impression is that we all experience pretty extreme political alienation from each other. Whereas in the States, there's a sense of triumph among progressives when progressives triumph in local elections even in distant states. (If I'm wrong on either point, lurkers, please feel free to disabuse me of either statement.)

I get what you're saying, but the alienation strikes me as more deliberate here, i.e. 'we have in nothing in common with the ROC so let them deal with their own problems'. Of course, federal issues are much harder to ignore, even in separatist circles.

To be fair, we haven't had anything as spectacular as, say, Roy Moore vs. Doug Jones (let's keep it that way).

We also have yet to face a true, national economic crisis (for quite a while, anyway). when that inevitably happens we'll prove just how reactionary we can get.

If ever there was a leader born to be brought down by sudden, roiling instability their approach is utterly insufficient in the face of, it's JT.

I’ve been in Canada for nearly four years and one major difference from the US is not having a two-party system really changes the flavor and intensity of politics.

Simon, I'm of a pessimistic nature, to say the least, but I can't help but see such statements as wishful eschatological thinking on the part of the left no less than the right, both of which seek the 'I told you so!' moment a crisis would inevitably impel. At the back of my mind, I am always comparing Canada's situation with that of my country of origin (Romania). We could be doing far better, no question about it, but we could also be doing, far, far worse. Although JT is mediocre in many ways, I'll take Canadian mediocrity over its equivalents almost everywhere else in the world, especially right now.

(With sea level as a baseline, the Mariana Trench's abyssal depth trumps Mt. Everest's height.)

I didn't mean my statement to come off as optimistic!

All I'm saying is, our relatively comfy political spectrum hasn't faced a truly dire test in quite a while.

For sure. And I've no doubt we'll see some truly ugly racist/sexist/homophobic, etc. bullshit come out of the woodwork when that happens (and it will, as no country is ever completely exempt). Harper and his cronies flirted with it a fair amount when they were in power and we'll probably get a foretaste of its return here in Quebec once the CAQ gets elected (they're outperforming everyone in the polls).

The feud between BC NDP and Alberta NDP is a testament to how different politics is done in every province, despite even having the same party name

I think so, yes. My impression is that we all experience pretty extreme political alienation from each other. Whereas in the States, there's a sense of triumph among progressives when progressives triumph in local elections even in distant states. (If I'm wrong on either point, lurkers, please feel free to disabuse me of either statement.)

Interesting. I usually feel the opposite: that the differences between states in the US are greater than the differences between (especially English) Canadian provinces. I don't really get much of an impression that people in Massachusetts give two shits about what happens at the state level in, say, the Dakotas or Tennessee, or could even name the Governor of Missouri. (I can't.) NB that Roy Moore vs Doug Jones was a contest for a federal Senate seat, not a state-level race. I do think that even moderately politically engaged people in Ontario would pay attention to a scandal-ridden federal byelection in Nova Scotia, or a controversy involving a PEI Senator (as we saw with Duffy).

(Compare state-level Republicans in MA with state-level Republicans in Kansas or Wisconsin, btw!)

Putting Hydro One back under public ownership is the most exciting thing in that ONDP list for me. The Left Chapter pokes some holes in the pharmacare and dental care proposals, while pointing out (correctly imo) that "[t]he Liberals have delivered some significant reforms that impact on the lives of people in very direct ways"; I'm not convinced I trust the ONDP to do that much better.

yeah the provincial Libs have outflanked them for a while and I don't think Howarth has what it takes to bring skeptical voters onside

i pay attention and have (sometimes poorly informed) rooting interests in politics in other provinces. I was really excited when Notley won, and still think she is by far a better Premier for Alberta than the alternatives, even though she has threatened to cut off my oil. I was happy about the Fords losing the mayoralty and Pauline Marois losing in Quebec

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/03/15/opinion/truth-behind-story-engulfing-canadas-sikh-politicians

In a properly functioning parliamentary democracy, it would probably be considered an abuse of power to use a Throne Speech to launch an election campaign. That's definitely the kind of complaint we heard a lot of from L/liberals during the Harper era. #ThroneSpeech #ONpoli

— Luke Savage (@LukewSavage) March 20, 2018

I'll have more to say on the Sikh terrorism issue soon but I'll just note as an aside that Jaspreet Singh's Helium is a really good (Canadian) novel that deals with the 1984 anti-Sikh pogroms, if anyone doesn't know it.

yeah I was curious what you thought of the piece, it improved my extremely lacking knowledge of the history by about 1000%

In short, a lot of it seems correct (although I can't say for sure about all of it). However, I also wouldn't really be on board with federal party leaders wearing Che Guevara T-shirts or speaking at events in front of pictures of, idk, Eldridge Cleaver or the Baader-Meinhof gang or someone? If a British politician were to speak at a pro-Quebec separatism rally where people were big-upping the FLQ, I would consider that a diplomatic issue, at the least, and it would be pretty insensitive to James Cross's family. I never thought that this was a matter of Canadian politicians getting involved with actual current terrorist violence and was surprised that anyone saw it that way.

I'd let it slide If Niki Ashton wore a Che Guevara T-shirt as a student, though, because that would be adorable.

I learned a lot from the article too, btw, so thanks!

so the NDP and Lib proposals for Ontario seem awfully similar huh? feel like the NDP got outflanked again.

I've never voted Liberal federally, and might have hated Chrétien/Martin more than I ever hated Harper, but I've thought for a while that the Ontario Liberals are ideologically closer to the NDP in other provinces. I definitely don't think of them as equivalent to the BC or Quebec Liberals. I'm usually not a proponent of the idea but I'm considering that it might be time for Ontario Liberals and NDP to come up with a way to work together in this election?

I've thought for a while that the Ontario Liberals are ideologically closer to the NDP in other provinces.

I mean, it's a an idle thought I have at times and they can sometimes be all over the map. Their record with civil liberties regarding the G20 protests made me want to swear them off for good and I'll look at the Green (my 2014 vote) and NDP platforms. Still, they've tried some legitimately bold and progressive things with some consistency over the last 15 years.

this seems cool, meanwhile

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-saudi-arms-deal-1.4579772

yeah, could you even imagine what it would be like if we had a PM who associated with violent extremists

would be really hard to respect a leader like that

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/03/bc-alberta-standoff-rest-country-dangerously-close-paying-attention-west-coast-politics/

Ha. Now, I don't necessarily take issue with a federal party leader getting arrested for blocking pipeline construction: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/anti-pipeline-protest-elizabeth-may-kennedy-stewart-1.4587631

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-cross-purposes-the-battle-for-christianity-in-canada/

(m1ch431 c0r3n in case this triggers anything in you)

While in Catholic circles, a belief in intellectual excellence still exists (although it’s far stronger among Jesuits and Dominicans), evangelical culture has retreated from the world – and, perhaps more disturbingly, is working to erect a parallel one that is run according to its own laws and logic. Which is why we see a new wave of Christian high schools and colleges, and the inevitable debates. Witness the battle between Trinity Western University in Langley, B.C. and various law societies over that Christian college’s desire to start a law school whose students must agree to forgo sexual intimacy outside of heterosexual marriage.

Or take the example of the Trudeau government’s decision to require groups seeking funding for the Summer Jobs Program to affirm their respect for a woman’s right to choose. The decision went to the epicentre of the church-state relationship (while also, it’s worth noting, making small-l liberal Christians feel almost anonymous). An attempt to prevent tax dollars ending up in the hands of extreme anti-abortion groups was clumsily handled by the government, and thus played into the persecution complex so relished by the Christian right.

What wasn’t made clear by those complaining of being victims of liberal “discrimination” was that many of these same people would be the first to refuse to hire openly gay students – or even straight students living with a partner to whom they are not married. It all seems so ugly, and lacking in the gentleness demanded by the rebel Jesus.

Indeed, perhaps nowhere is the modern-day Kulturkampf more pronounced than on the issue of abortion, a litmus test on which Catholics and evangelicals have forged a common ground against all liberal comers. It is a tragic intransigence, because here is an area where common ground is not only possible, but desirable.

All Christians, and most people for that matter, would like to see abortion rates decline. That could be achieved, and has been achieved, by making contraceptives readily available, by insisting on modern sex education in schools, by reducing poverty, by funding public daycare and by empowering women more generally.

And yet, Catholics insist on remaining opposed to “artificial contraceptives” and, alongside their Protestant allies, lead the campaign against frank and healthy sex education, while framing state-funded day care as an attack on the family and a form of social engineering. As for abortion itself, the Christian right wants it defunded, and ultimately – however much they may deny this publicly – banned and criminalized.

For, make no mistake: Such ideological tussles are anything but abstract debates about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. The Halton Catholic District School Board, west of Toronto, last month passed a motion that bans it from facilitating financial donations to charities that support, “either directly or indirectly, abortion, contraception, sterilization, euthanasia, or embryonic stem-cell research.” Under the ban, the Hospital for Sick Children, the United Way and Doctors Without Borders would become charities non grata.

Indeed, for many Catholics, the loathing of abortion, no matter the circumstances, trumps even the most basic of Christian virtues. In 2015, in The Prairie Messenger, a Catholic newspaper in Western Canada, I wrote supportively about a 10-year-old Paraguayan girl who had been denied an abortion after being raped by her stepfather. I was promptly fired (albeit amid profuse apologies from my editor, who cited external pressure). Which in turn prompted Lifesite, the Canadian anti-abortion movement’s most prominent media platform – and one of the most influential conservative Christian sites in the world – to announce that they were “glad that the Prairie Messenger will no longer be a mouthpiece for Coren’s misplaced notions of compassion and love.”

Imagine: compassion and love for a pregnant 10-year-old having no place at the Christian table.

And yet, who is welcome at that table? Donald Trump, a man who lies on a near daily basis, who has given comfort to racist thugs, who has admitted to sexual assault and is by all accounts an adulterer. As with Christians in the United States, conservative believers in Canada are more than happy to defend the man.

And why not, they ask. He opposes a woman’s right to choose (after years of claiming otherwise), has fired every member of the Presidential Advisory Council on HIV/AIDS, has renewed his call to ban transgender citizens from serving their country in the U.S. military and has promised to vigorously appoint “pro-life judges.” To a number of his religious supporters, he is a new Constantine, the deeply flawed emperor who allowed Christianity to flourish in ancient Rome: As Mr. Trump proudly champions all that is selfish and mean, these Christians accuse his opponents of being “demonic.”

...

In any case, defending life is a complicated affair. As the Benedictine nun Sister Joan Chittister has said: “I do not believe that just because you’re opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don’t? Because you don’t want any tax money to go there. That’s not pro-life. That’s pro-birth.”

Or what of Christians who would deny equality to LGBTQ2 people – in a world where homophobia leads to persecution, family rejection, self-harm and even suicide? It’s another of those subjects that, while of concern to Christians on both sides of the aisle, is hardly touched on in the Bible. The Genesis story of Sodom and Gomorrah is less about homosexuality than about hospitality – protecting one’s guests and neighbours, and loving God rather than oneself. Remember, it features Lot offering up his teenage daughters to a rape mob in place of his angelic guests! Hardly family values.

When the Hebrew Scriptures – the Old Testament – do speak of homosexuality, it is condemned with other transgressions such as combining different cloths, eating the wrong foods and having sex with a woman when she is menstruating. As for St. Paul’s rejection of homosexuality in the New Testament, it is concerned with straight men using boys, usually young teenagers, for loveless sex, a practice common in Greek and Roman culture. And while Jesus doesn’t speak of the subject, it’s worth rereading his affirming and loving response to a Roman centurion who cares deeply for his slave. Many theologians are convinced that this is an account of a gay partnership.

The progressive Christian approach is to understand Biblical teaching through the prism of love, to regard the Bible as a living document that on certain subjects speaks differently to different ages. It is to acknowledge that the writers of the Old Testament knew little if anything of committed, loving same-sex relationships. As Ms. Helwig notes, “The radical left theological tradition, which goes much further back in Christian history” imparts a message of deep humanity, one in which “we don’t need to be afraid of the ‘other’ or, finally, of God, that God is constantly drawing us all into the vast mystery of love, and that we are, despite our many human failures, deeply, existentially safe. So we can be vulnerable, and open, and comfortable with difference and uncertainty.”

...

That wonder is troubling for the complacent, who want their faith neatly packaged in catechismal certainty. But being born again is not the same as being born yesterday, and questioning is not the same as doubting. As scientific knowledge expands and public attitudes change, Christianity today must either respond intelligently and constructively, or retreat into an ever-shrinking, more hostile ghetto.

For Canadian Christians (and here, it is not solely the conservative among them) the newest battle front is assisted dying or, as opponents prefer to call it, euthanasia. Unlike abortion and homosexuality, this is more a work in progress, a conundrum whose resolution is still undecided for many people. Not for all, however.

...

To liberal Christians, it seemed that once again those on the right of the church care most about people just before they are born, and just before they die. In between, not so much. In the process, those conservatives betray their indifference to economic systems that exacerbate suffering across the lion’s share of our time here on Earth.

There was a time when Christian social conservatives in Canada held to an economic gospel, when they were prepared to believe that the desire for more socialistic policies was compatible with conservative views on life and sexuality. Like so much that involves benevolence and mercy, that position has been largely suffocated. As Protestant evangelicals and conservative Catholics rally round right-wing politicians, they trade away kindness and generosity in exchange for a guarantee that Canada’s legislatures will call a halt to social progress.

Canadian Christianity is bisected, and – as the absolute numbers attest – in trouble. And while no faith should be measured exclusively by its headcount, without worshippers, there is no community, no money and, for that matter, no church.

The coming years will see a new generation of believers assuming positions of influence and authority in our churches and in our society. Those leaders will have the option of building walls or building bridges, of extending the circle so as to include as many people as possible or standing at the corners of their creeds and repelling all they see as a threat. Of lending a hand to the marginalized and needy, or withdrawing it once and for all.

James E. Wallis Jr. is a Christian writer and political activist, best known as the founder and editor of Sojourners magazine, a journal of the evangelical left. He writes: “Two of the greatest hungers in our world today are the hunger for spirituality and the hunger for social change. The connection between the two is the one the world is waiting for, especially the new generation. And the first hunger will empower the second.”

Whether Canadian Christians will listen to Mr. Wallis – or, for that matter, to Jesus Christ – remains to be seen. Their decision will influence all of us, whatever our faith or lack thereof.

And it will determine whether our houses of worship, and our houses of politics, are places of division and discord – or living rooms where love is always welcome and compassion finds a home.

Interesting. I usually feel the opposite: that the differences between states in the US are greater than the differences between (especially English) Canadian provinces. I don't really get much of an impression that people in Massachusetts give two shits about what happens at the state level in, say, the Dakotas or Tennessee, or could even name the Governor of Missouri. (I can't.) NB that Roy Moore vs Doug Jones was a contest for a federal Senate seat, not a state-level race. I do think that even moderately politically engaged people in Ontario would pay attention to a scandal-ridden federal byelection in Nova Scotia, or a controversy involving a PEI Senator (as we saw with Duffy).

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, March 19, 2018 7:55 AM (four weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

was thinking about this while reading this:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-unveils-bill-that-could-wreak-havoc-on-b-c-gas-prices-in-trade-war-1.4622165

do ontarians care what's going on between bc and alberta?

nytimes covers the entire country the way cbc does, while each one focuses on their own state's and province's major city

i don't think toronto cares what happens in the prairies or even know what living in saskatchewan is like

whereas in the states, it feels like los angeles, new york, miami, chicago, and maybe even seattle and portland, are all aware of what is generally going on in those cities because they are all trying to push forward a more progressive society

it's also funny because most of my vancouver friends think toronto still thinks it represents canada, and even by the way people post on here, it definitely looks like that

I care! And, wow, this is nuts: interprovincial trade war??

good breakdown of that issue + likely outcomes

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156189465332822&id=516917821

i have really no hope for this country politically.

trade war will possibly destroy this provincial gov - or at least assure it's a one term thing. BC Liberals will be back in. Alberta will vote provincial NDP out next year for sure, conservatives back in forever there. Liberals may well lose to the Tories in the next federal election - they're ahead in current polling.

And locally - Vancouver's centre and left may well vote split in the municipal elections this year and we could have an NPA city hall.

Don't forget Ford Nation

oh yeah totally, that's bound to happen!

kill me now

I think Carr has a really good chance for mayor if she runs, none of the NPA candidates seem like much

there's bound to be a vision adjacent candidate and a left candidate in addition to Carr - if she runs - surely?

I also really think Trudeau will be PM forever, for better or for worse. He's up in some polls now, and the Cons have a difficult electoral map unless they show some ability to break into Canada's three largest cities. The LIbs should be able to at least get a minority gov't.

I also really think Trudeau will be PM forever, for better or for worse.

...barring a major scandal or a significant economic downturn, neither of which I would rule out.

Yeah I guess Sylvester is the Vision-affiliated "independent," and maybe COPE will run a mayor too...but nobody approaches Carr's record or name recognition, and I doubt the COPE brand means much these days. I think she can win votes from Westside NIMBYs as well as the left.

yeah that's what it took to get the Liberals out last time xp

I am not too thrilled about any of the apparent choices for mayor, I might just leave that ballot blank and just vote for council

xps. ok, good info, bud. you're talking me off the ledge here lol

I'm thinking a COPEish person like Jean Swanson, a Vision affiliated independent, and possibly OneCity fielding a candidate, plus the Greens obv. There's no way in that situation I see a good outcome

Totally understand having no hope for this country politically speaking. Trudeau's a mess but he can hold on. I doubt the BC Liberals will return soon. We have a winnable electoral reform referendum. And I'm hopeful about Vancouver. There will not be more than one candidate for mayor left of Vision. It's going to be either Carr or someone who has not yet declared and has barely been mentioned yet. The NPA are not looking good imo. These density bros think they can win via social media but their base has nothing to do with Twitter and will recoil with horror at talk of rezoning west of Granville.

Sorry was going to put "But" at the start of my second sentence.

good breakdown of that issue + likely outcomes

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156189465332822&id=516917821

This is clearly coming from one ideological perspective but it is still helpful. I get that Notley is Premier of Alberta and is not going to actively sabotage her province's main industry but I had been confused about why she and the Alberta NDP are this aggressively invested in getting a pipeline built. If it's true that capital ("oil barons") had been threatening to strike if the NDP increased their royalties, I wonder what would have happened if the NDP just called their bluff and went ahead. Surely the only reason they were doing business in AB in the first place was because it was extremely profitable for them (even with a modest increase in taxes and/or royalties), which they would miss out on if they pulled out altogether.

yeah I mean obviously he's a comrade and all but I think the predictions for how this plays out are pretty sound

Jean Swanson isn't running for mayor (unfortunately). I really doubt OneCity will. I'm glad the continued success of some nominally left neoliberal government can get you off the ledge! It is better than the alternative, despite everything

These parties are all being very careful about this election. There's a lot of talk between them. Predict Swanson will join COPE, giving them a bit of energy again. And also predict a familiar NDP-related person will emerge as an independent as the only candidate left of Vision for mayor. Or Carr will run unopposed. Whichever, all the parties will support.

xp. i work with someone who is heavily involved with OneCity, guess I could ask her

There's an open secret about who's going to run if Carr won't.

.....

well, i hear the vp of the bc ndp has been working with the three left-of-vision parties and they're close to supporting a labour-backed candidate for mayor

and indeed I see that she just shared this on Twitter.

I am happy to share that I am engaged in dialogue with Vancouver's civic parties and regional stakeholders as I explore running for mayor in 2018 as a progressive unity candidate. Discussions so far are encouraging.#StayTuned #vanpoli #vanelxnhttps://t.co/vSQ4475AqM

— Morgane Oger (@MorganeOgerBC) April 17, 2018

cool!

My whole life I have believed the equation was that all Canadians care about the other Canadian provinces except the maritimes, no one cares about the maritimes unfortunately.

Totally understand having no hope for this country politically speaking. Trudeau's a mess but he can hold on. I doubt the BC Liberals will return soon. We have a winnable electoral reform referendum. And I'm hopeful about Vancouver. There will not be more than one candidate for mayor left of Vision. It's going to be either Carr or someone who has not yet declared and has barely been mentioned yet. The NPA are not looking good imo. These density bros think they can win via social media but their base has nothing to do with Twitter and will recoil with horror at talk of rezoning west of Granville.

― everything, Tuesday, April 17, 2018 1:59 PM (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Just you wait for the CAQ and their right wing nationalist islamophobic brand win in Quebec + Ford in Ontario. This is the mess awaiting us.

The possibility of Ford winning in Ontario scares the shit out of me, and I just wish that everyone in the province would vote strategically, rather than ideologically, this time.

I was just talking to my partner and we feel the same way, except that we're not sure what the strategic choice would be, or even the ideological one, for that matter.

Legault is going to be Duplessis redux, down to his ambiguous brand of nationalism that caters to the PQ base's barely contained xenophobia even as he shies away from full separatism because granting undivided attention to statistically insignificant Muslim practices is the key to contemporary politics.

Btw, I care more about the Maritimes than I do about Saskatchewan. Alberta would leave me indifferent if it didn't irritate me most of the time.

The possibility of Ford winning in Ontario scares the shit out of me, and I just wish that everyone in the province would vote strategically, rather than ideologically, this time.

I'm not convinced there *is* a strategic vote this time out. I'm not advocating for giving up but you might want to mentally prepare yourself for the possibility that we're fucked.

Kevin Taft's take on what's going on with Notley: https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/04/19/opinion/kevin-taft-what-turned-rachel-notley-crusading-critic-big-oil-crusader

that's a good piece

That's a great piece. The royalties almost beggar belief.

drill baby drill eh

meanwhile mining companies are hiring environmental science grads from the university of waterloo

wonder what they're up to

Wow:
http://pressprogress.ca/a-leaked-memo-exposed-the-toronto-suns-secret-plan-to-manufacture-a-right-wing-culture-war/
http://www.canadalandshow.com/toronto-sun-provincial-election-plans/

fuck postmedia forever

article about the ndp and oil in jacobin:

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/04/the-ndps-oil-problem

singh has legit been a disappointment on KM

wish ashton had won :c

Ugh: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-election-campaign-fundraising-party-donations-1.4638698?cmp=rss

As someone who voted for him, I agree that Singh is a little disappointing on KM btw.

I too wish Ashton had won (I voted for her and the lefties I run with endorsed her) but I'm not sure she wouldn't have capitulated on KM

Between this and the fucker who brandished a nazi flag during the May Day protest, I'm pretty pissed at my city right now: http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/major-neo-nazi-figure-recruiting-in-montreal

One person does not make a city.

Of course, of course. If anything, the response has been exactly as it should. But I'm still a little disappointed.

Also, so long, Amir Khadir, I disliked lot of the posturing during the 2012 student protests and I can't shake the pro-indépendance stance of the party he belonged to but here's to someone who fully believed in equality. Plus you know, being a MPP in Quebec with that name was huge deal for lots of immigrant kids who dreamed of being in politics in 2008. I remember I was having a beer with a bud at Dieu Du Ciel! when he showed up to talk to people, beautiful day, my bud knew him well from the students protests and we discussed Krugman, I was just starting to read on economics and he was so sweet to point me to some directions and authors I would potentially enjoy. Shortly after he started speaking to another group of young students and he told 'you know I come from a country, Iran, that created the most beautiful thing in society', the students were curious to know what it was, he answered 'taxes', I thought that was brillant, and I told him to never say that on television and he laughed real hard.

Sometimes I do feel like the best and brightest and wisest of canadian politics are these unambitious MPPs.

Well put. He will be greatly missed indeed.

published a couple days ago

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/technology/article-canada-facing-brain-drain-as-young-tech-talent-leaves-for-silicon/

Canada’s best and brightest computer engineering graduates are leaving for jobs in Silicon Valley at alarmingly high rates, fuelling a worse “brain drain” than the mass exodus by Canadian doctors two decades ago, according to a new study.

...

(O)ne-in-four recent science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) graduates from three of the country’s top universities – University of Waterloo, University of British Columbia and U of T – were working outside Canada.

The numbers were higher for graduates of computer engineering and computer science (30 per cent), engineering science (27 per cent) and software engineering, where two out three graduates were working outside Canada, mostly in the United States. Nearly 44 per cent of those working abroad were employed as software engineers, with Microsoft, Google, Facebook and Amazon listed as top employers.

...

“When we see certain fields where upward of 65 per cent of a graduating class are leaving for the U.S., I think there should be concerns there that our homegrown companies aren’t even going to be able to access some of that talent. If we found in the 1960s that 60 per cent of our auto workers were leaving to work in other countries … we probably would have held a royal commission.”

...

A separate 2017 survey by students from that year’s graduating class of the University of Waterloo systems design engineering program found that 60 per cent were moving to the United States for work. “There’s a premium on California and New York jobs” among graduating students, said Joey Loi, one of the 2017 survey’s authors, who himself moved to San Francisco to work for Dropbox.

...

surprise, surprise

i remember a couple years ago saying my friends were all moving to the u.s. because they couldn't find work in canada and one ilxor had some deranged comments to say about that -- i don't remember your name unfortunately

but just to clarify, there *are* jobs in canada, but they're all low-paying ones and doing menial tasks, which a lot of people refuse to do, so, yes, they stay unemployed looking for better opportunities. this is what they mean when they say "i can't find work"

also, i was reading this: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/opinion/jordan-peterson-canadian-deference.html

and a few things ring true:

Canada is home to many more Jordan Petersons than Justin Trudeaus. Mr. Peterson is — to use one of his favorite terms — something of a national archetype, the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might rock the boat. To these types, those who make a fuss are bothersome and ignorant at best, and probably dangerous and destructive too.

...

Canadian conservatism is not brash. It is not belligerent, it is not loud. It is not Fox News. But our most popular columnists all deliver the same message: Things are the way they are for a reason. Those who agitate for change are stepping out of line.

That Jesse Brown thing was so absurd. The dude does some good work at times but wtf when he gets on this shit. I can't imagine the NYT printing something like that about any other country, even written by one of its citizens: picking one infamous person, arguing that he somehow epitomizes the character of the country as a whole, and then 'backing this up' with a bunch of random and cherry-picked incidents from national history, most of which hardly reveal anything unique about Canada.

I'll read the first article but I for one am doing my part to reverse the brain drain trend at the end of the month.

that's fair

for what it's worth, i somehow feel like i am more open minded than vancouverites when i go back, and i attribute this to my living in los angeles so long

it's kind of cliche to say, but there is a "small town mentality" that is still very persistent at least among the people i encounter -- they don't think "big"

and what i mean by that is they deal with things at a much smaller scale (with reason, i understand, because canada has a smaller population), but because of it they miss some important nuances

and of course, fiscally, canada remains a conservative country

That Jesse Brown thing was so absurd. The dude does some good work at times but wtf when he gets on this shit. I can't imagine the NYT printing something like that about any other country, even written by one of its citizens: picking one infamous person, arguing that he somehow epitomizes the character of the country as a whole, and then 'backing this up' with a bunch of random and cherry-picked incidents from national history, most of which hardly reveal anything unique about Canada.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, May 5, 2018 2:37 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't even think Peterson is the epitome of Canadian conservatism, he represents an unorganised new faction at best. Also, not exactly sure that there is more 'Petersons than Trudeaus' in Canada, that statement seems out of nowhere and demands statistics. Love Brown too, I support Canadaland on Patreon, he is doing mostly fantastic work and whatnot. Perhaps Brown is the one who epitomizes Canada the best: brillant and sensible man, who from time to time just needs to bash Canada for not being like the US enough. Which ties to the brain drain that's also been discussed.

Also lots of example of idealism over the past 10 years in Canada, starting with Idle No More.

Traditionally, a real Canadian conservative is closer to a pre-brexit british tory than Peterson and his angry rhetoric and his inability to keep calm.

I have the dull face of Harper printed on my eyes from 9 years of him being the head of government + 4 elections, it's going to take more than one book and a social media phenomena to have the archetype of Canadian conservatism to be replaced.

Definitely agree

xp

i mean, if you don't think this describes stephen harper:

a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might rock the boat. To these types, those who make a fuss are bothersome and ignorant at best, and probably dangerous and destructive too.

we are clearly living under two different cultures/canadas, because these people are quite common or at least the canadians around me and i have encountered them quite often

I'm unconvinced that that sort of person is exceptionally more common in Canada than in other countries. Except for "Dad", I could make an argument that it describes Hillary Clinton.

And I'm actually unconvinced that it does describe Peterson, although it probably works for Harper. There is nothing contained about his hostility: he is a boat-rocker who talks about his crusade against 'postmodernism' in the language of war.

I don't see how any of the things that Brown points to are evidence of a uniquely Canadian tendency towards deference. Among British settler states, it is the US that is the more exceptional case in having fought a war of independence. The handling of G20 protests was unfortunate and infuriating but I don't see how it was worse than the handling of protests at e.g. the 2004 RNC or the J20 protests. Centrist or right-ish moves on the part of the NDP or Liberals don't seem that different to me from similar moves that have been made by UK Labour or the Democratic party.

Just shared a prediction about tomorrow night's debate with a friend. Either Wynne or Horvath, or both, will bring up Rob at one point, as they should, if you frame it in terms of Doug's reckless verbiage when the story broke--he was slandering journalists left and right, even though he undoubtedly knew the story was true. But Ford will turn it around on them with some well-rehearsed for-shame theatrics, and he'll "win" that part of the debate.

sund4r

i'm not sure if you are disingenuously overlooking the nuances of brown's argument

peterson has a lot of traits of the canadian archetype. not every facet of peterson's personality is a canadian archetype

brown is building an image of a canadian archetype that involves various conservatives, and this includes harper, it could easily include rob ford and doug ford jr.

canada's main economic resources inform our culture: it is an old school, conservative-style way of doing business because it comes from mining resources, where once stability is reached, a bourgeois is created that stays in power and itself creates a conservative culture (you can see it in shows like dragons' den vs shark tank)

i watch and read popular canadian news outlets and most of them sound conservative to me

liberals are conservative

and we had a staunchly conservative government before them

having said that, i think just like in vancouver, i'm going to wager that toronto and montreal have small but thriving pockets of free-thinkers that are mostly found in art and academic circles, but not outside of that -- as in, not in business or management

Yeah the centuries old mission to create a Canadian archetype is doomed.

Brown's argument doesn't seem particularly nuanced to me but tbf I'm unlikely to ever get on board with a piece that tries to argue a sweeping claim that "x is the default setting for the [ nationality][ gender]".

Except for people in the West Island let's be fair.

F#A#oo, I will give you that you seem to at least be attempting to make a more coherent argument than he does. The point about a resource economy is an interesting one. There is a nuanced argument to be made about the differences between Canadian and American conservatism owing to Canada's inheritance of British Toryism (including Red Toryism) and roots in United Empire Loyalism. More generally, the combination of a constitutional monarchy and Westminster Parliament with decentralized federalism, of American Loyalists and a virtually abandoned francophone colony, probably has produced a unique political culture but I don't think it breaks down to what Brown seems to be breaking it down to (and "more Petersons than Trudeaus" really needs more support, as VHS said). Our major print news outlets do all mostly tend to the right, except for the Toronto Star, mainly because of Postmedia's stranglehold on ownership. I don't think there's a sensible case to be made that, overall, Canada is a more right-wing country than the US (or most of the anglosphere) if that's what you're saying.

the thing about this, and why i'm so open to others' views, is that there is a very personal feel to this

meaning, i speak from my own, yet limited, experience, and i think brown does, as well

and while i actually would love to have the stats and numbers, i think because of the type of canadian identity that is exported and sold to the rest of the world (the nice, progressive canadian), those types of numbers are difficult to come by, so for all we know i may be full of it

the reason for this is like you say, there is a stranglehold and information is undoubtedly less accessible in canada than in the us (i would be surprised if you disagreed with me on this), because of the oligopoly and almost monopoly the government holds on a lot of industries

but i am a little paranoid and generally do not trust government to act in the best interest of canadians

so because of this, i look to voting trends, but ya, it's all good

ON debate off to a start. Some surprising enthusiasm for Horwath.

This is my first real exposure to Horvath. (Sorry--it takes an election to rouse me into paying attention.) First impression, very good. Ford, meanwhile, struggles to string together a few sentences.

Politicians never stay within the time limits during a debate--except Ford. They've got him programmed well: "They're gonna give you 45 seconds to answer, Dougie. Don't ever, ever, ever use more than 30 of them."

Is anyone else experiencing issues with the stream at http://toronto.citynews.ca/cityvote-the-debate/? Is it because I'm in the US?

"'Six Million Dollar Man,' Doug--just keep saying 'Six Million Dollar Man.'"

Ha, Horwath seems to be doing better than Wynne so far and is starting to persuade me. Ford makes no sense half the time and, depressingly, people still seem to favour him. Horwath's question, m/l, "be upfront, what are you going to cut?" was v good imo.

She framed it really well with the comparison to Harris and Hudak.

OTM

Man, he has trouble with this whole hand-motion/talking coordination.

Can't watch this right now but GO ANDREA FFS

Wow, the three post-mortem commentators all liked Horwath best.

Except for the guy talking now, who's saying Ford won because he didn't accidentally say he was going to kill every fourth new-born during his first 100 days. I take his point, but Horvath was far and away the best.

Yeah, I'm seriously considering voting NDP now. If so, it will be the first time since 1999 that I do so provincially, although I've voted NDP federally in every election since 1997.

do it! do it!

i mean, this is an ABF election

Well, the PCs won't win my riding, regardless. (I was going to say "Ottawa Centre will elect a Tory when Massachusetts votes for a Republican Presidential candidate" but, actually, the latter has happened more recently than the former.)

Oh National Post...

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i389/cryptosicko/IMG_0996_zpsvkpcveat.jpg?t=1525717360

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i389/cryptosicko/IMG_0996_zpsvkpcveat.jpg?t=1525717360

lol

trying to figure out which local trot is running the ONDP twitter

Chariot of the Proletariat 🔥🔥🔥 pic.twitter.com/xy9v0dnf8n

— Ontario NDP (@OntarioNDP) May 9, 2018

in other local developments, guess who's a fucking moron

Here’s the link https://t.co/uTNW9UaKug

— Jason Chapman (@_JasonChapman) May 9, 2018

why are they asking trump about ontario politics

Tbf, without context, it does seem like a bit of a condescending question. Had Ford just said or done something that suggested gross ignorance of basic Parliamentary procedure?

Known Quebec islamophobe on the cover of Urbania to celebrate their 15th anniversary! Supposedly that's the woke edition.

https://cdn.urbania.ca/media/2018/05/URBANIA_No47_15ans_C1-C4_Num47_v7_HR-425x545.jpg

https://urbania.ca/article/richard-martineau-martyr-quebecois

Comment interprètes-tu notre page couverture ?

Je suis une cible facile. Des fois, j’ai l’impression que pour rentrer dans une gang, t’es obligé de me lancer des flèches : « T’as fessé sur Martineau, tu peux faire partie du groupe, voici tes patchs… » Je représente plein d’affaires que les gens n’aiment pas, je fais un bon punching bag. Et à force de me faire rentrer dedans, je dis parfois de façon ironique que je suis un martyr pour la cause. Peut-être que je me complais dans le rôle de victime, à l’occasion.

;_; poor Dick Martineau.

Only in Quebec this type of stuff could happen without any sort of backlash.

Liberals are giving Texas oil company #KinderMorgan a blank cheque while dumping all the risks on Canadians

Rigged process, First Nations & local communities shut out, oil spill threats, science ignored & now billions on the line

It's clear this pipeline should not be built.

— Jagmeet Singh (@theJagmeetSingh) May 16, 2018

jagmeet comes out against the kinder morgan pipeline, which is great. id imagine he may be running in burnaby south as kennedy stewart will resign to run of mayor of Vancouver.

Oh, good for him.

NDP is well ahead of the Liberals in provincial polling. I might have to sign up to do some (uuuugh) canvassing.

*ON provincial polling, I should specify

can't we just nationalize the oil industry

no, because the whole point is to make tons of money for corporations, wreck the environment, employ paltry numbers of workers, and pay ultra-low royalties

providing any tangible social good is anathema to the extraction industry

I think natural resource rights are largely under provincial jurisdiction but I'd be for socializing the industry at that level.

I used to sometimes like to defend the NEP as a challop.

Abacus has Ontario PCs and NDP in a tie: http://onpulse.ca/blog/entering-the-long-weekend-the-pc-lead-evaporates-as-ndp-momentum-builds

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/horwath-ndp-visits-ottawa-first-time-campaign-1.4671224

Yeah, Joel Harden is a sessional at Carleton, which intrigues me a little.

In the wtf file, btw, this whole story: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/pc-doug-ford-stolen-data-allegations-1.4671063?cmp=rss

After reviewing the ONDP's platform document, I'm honestly pretty unconvinced that the modest tax increases they're proposing - on larger corporations, the top 1% of income earners, and non-resident housing speculators, with a tax freeze on the 'middle class' and a reduction in small business taxes - could pay for the vast spending increases they're also proposing in virtually every area. This is actually a main reason why I've not voted for the ONDP, for the most part. To his credit, Bernie Sanders has been pretty upfront that he would need to raise taxes pretty significantly, including on the middle class, to pay for his platform in the US. That said, if the NDP is the best anti-Ford option, they're the best anti-Ford option. I just don't know what the government would actually look like because I'm not sure it could look like this platform.

Better something you are not sure you could like than straight up something you are going to hate, not that you didn't made the point but let me reiterate.

I agree, but I also agree w/ Sund4r that the ONDP (and the NDP more generally) hedge their bets far too much in terms of policy and I continue to believe that's their greatest liability at the ballot box.

The "you don't have to pick btwn bad and worse" messaging is actually not bad, but I wish there was more distance between their policy planks and the Liberals' to help back up the rhetoric (not to say there are non - pharmacare ain't nothing)

Another poll - by Ipsos, usually a Tory-leaning pollster, I thought? - showing a PC/NDP tie in Ontario, including a tie in the 905 region (!): https://globalnews.ca/news/4222975/ontario-election-pcs-ndp-tied-ipsos-poll/ .

I still refuse to believe we're headed for anything but a PC minority

A PC minority would be a lot better than PC sweep/majority, which is what everyone was anticipating a couple of weeks ago!

An NDP-Lib coalition could possibly emerge in that scenario (?), which might be great but idk if it would work.

And, ha, I guess Horwath agrees with me about her platform: https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/20/ndp-will-block-gas-price-gouging-on-long-weekends-horwath-says.html

oof

and yeah I meant to say that a PC minority feels like the best-case scenario

it's obviously not the worst outcome but I *really* hate the idea of an NDP-Lib coalition, I see that not panning out well down the line

The only thing that troubles me about a coalition is the amount of ignorance and outrage it will whip up from people who have no idea how our government is supposed to work.

Yeah, although that almost makes me want it to happen more. The Liberal-NDP accord in the 80s did some good things, by all accounts, and didn't really hurt either member at all.

i'd prefer to avoid having to unfriend people from facebook when they inevitably let me down.

The reason I dislike a coalition long term is because I want the NDP to distinguish themselves from the Liberals to the extent that coalitions are unthinkable. I fully realize this will never happen.

I would take the coalition over Doug Ford any day, praxis over theory imo.

tbc I agree, the former just seems like a much more likely outcome to me

err I mean the latter. I'm still convinced Ford will win.

The reason I dislike a coalition long term is because I want the NDP to distinguish themselves from the Liberals to the extent that coalitions are unthinkable. I fully realize this will never happen.

Not only is it unlikely to happen but I don't think this should happen in a healthy multi-party Parliamentary democracy. Parties should be distinct enough from each other, and represent different interests, but they should also be capable of working together for the sake of good government imo. I think this is how some of the most successful social democracies work?

What else would you want to see in the ONDP platform, Simon?

Any of the seat projections I've seen do still have the Tories well ahead, btw.

the BC greendp coalition has been working way better than I would have expected, and the centrist whining about evil unelected coalitions has been pretty irrelevant

Horvath is tied with Ford in a poll that came out yesterday. I'm going to take a wild guess that Ford is not especially disciplined or effective campaigning from behind.

Horwath...

I'm sticking with my prediction that's we'll see a depressed turnout, and that tends to favor conservatives

What else would you want to see in the ONDP platform, Simon?

I'm looking through it presently and I think it's pretty good (though the costing "miscalculation" was embarrassing) - my everlasting problem with the NDP is that I don't think they'll ever be able to consistently get elected and actually implement any of it until or unless they embrace what I'm going to call, for lack of a better term, left populism, as well as just generally being more aggressive in their messaging. I want an NDP with the attitude of that UK Labour MP who said she doesn't make friends with Tories. I'm willing to bet Canadians as a whole would actually respect them a hell of a lot more if they did. (This is the main thing I liked about Ashton - very assertive and bold in her messaging.)

Didn't know the next G7 meeting is in Canada. Precisely in beautiful La Malbaie in the capital region of Quebec.

I recommend visiting that place, before or after, the G7.

Significantly after.

Word is going around the Libs or whoever are gonna leak a Doug Ford sex tape tomorrow morning and I hope that I die in my sleep tonight

no

Not a sex tape: https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/24/pc-leader-doug-ford-participated-in-collection-of-bogus-party-memberships-audio-recording-suggests.html

I have been wrong plenty before, but I really don't think this is going to make much of a dent with party faithful. I could see it (at best) depressing Tory turnout a little extra. (Obviously a good thing.)

current projections have douggo winning his riding by just 3% (Wynne's seat looks safer)! According to Ekos, the NDP now has a notable lead, think we'll see polling from them tmrw.

more classic hellworld teasing there

too early to get excited for the possibility of a NDP minority govt?

I would never recommend excitement.

simon otm

Grenier's poll tracker is still heavily favouring the Tories when it comes to seat projections: https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/onvotes/poll-tracker/ .

Section 133: "The Acts ... of the Legislature of Quebec shall be printed and published in both those Languages." A plenary session of the Barreau du Quebec just voted to allow the National Assembly to continue ignoring this provision. The bar ought to be ashamed. pic.twitter.com/HUVWCsDzcr

— Matt Harrington (@MattHar65517869) May 25, 2018

also that happened:

http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreal-police-called-after-members-of-far-right-group-storm-into-vices-office

jusqu'ici tout vas bien.

Whoa:

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/25/ndp-surges-ahead-in-poll.html

I've gotten to know pretty much which polls to discount in an American election, but I don't know about polling firms here--legitimate?

"Far right group surges into Vice offices" - I would assume this was just the regular staff?

As always, ignore polls and brace for the worst. Two weeks is a long time.

otoh if this is the best attack line the Tories can find that is indeed a good sign

two days of front page oil wrestling! we haven’t had this spirit here since 1979 ... pic.twitter.com/VVLDUSqJU8

— twelvethirtysix (@1236) May 25, 2018

Forum is a major polling firm and reasonably well-respected, I think, but they did generally show higher Liberal numbers than other firms last time. We'd probably want to wait for a couple more polls showing similar results before we start to buy it.

Ekos is still just showing a tie, although what all the polls are showing is that the NDP has momentum: http://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2018/05/a-volatile-electorate-producing-a-newly-tied-race/ .

I thought this was interesting: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-ontario-1990-election-1.4675425 . Surprising now to consider that, in 1990, only two polls were conducted during the election campaign. The frequency of polls today, the increased availability of riding-level info, and the the ability of people to organize over social media means both that strategic voting (with actual strategy) is more feasible than it used to be and also that polls can actually shape the election more than they used to. I think that happened with the 2015 federal election and it might be happening again.

And that's a tie in the popular vote. When you factor in the efficiency of the Tory vote and the trend that older and richer people can be counted on more reliably to show up on voting day, a tie in the popular vote likely still means more seats for the Tories.

yeah IDGAF about the popular vote; my original expectation of a Tory minority still feels pretty safe to me

The only thing I'm comfortable predicting right now is that the Liberals will not win the most seats. I didn't feel safe predicting anything before the debate, even that. (My partner can back me up that I raised it as a distinct possibility back then that the NDP could come up the middle and eke out a win.)

When is that? If I'm gonna watch I'll need a stiff drink or seven.

I meant the May 7 debate. After that, I started feeling more confident that the Libs were out of the running to win the most seats (but not out of the running to possibly govern as a junior coalition partner). It seemed like a lot of pundits were already expecting an easy Tory win even before then.

A source tells me the Ontario PCs will roll out new ads tomorrow morning that cite Bob Rae and basically represent NDP government of the 90s like the dustbowl. #ONpoli

— Luke Savage (@LukewSavage) May 26, 2018

lol I hope the NDP war room is braced for this devastating and not-at-all-desperate salvo

— Luke Savage (@LukewSavage) May 26, 2018

It's nice for the NDP that Rae was kind enough to switch (rejoin, really) parties over a decade ago.

I'm in the minority in that I tend to think that Rae (like Wynne) was pretty good. I wonder if the NDP might have done better if, any time it came up, they just owned the Rae years, pointed out some of the good things that was done, admitted that it was a mistake to abrogate collective agreements (even if Rae Days were less harsh than Harris's approach to making cuts), and stressed that we are no longer living in 1990-95, especially now that we have voters who were not even born in 1995.

we are no longer living in 1990-95

Obv, this is the urgent and key point.

Yeah, I don't think they need to do much to respond to these attacks. They're incredibly weak.

speaking of which did y'all hear Hitler joined the NDP, damn

those ford boys have some chutzpah accusing anyone else of anti semitism

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/10/06/doug_ford_booed_for_reference_to_jewish_lawyer_account_dentist.html

I just donated to Joel Harden. After reviewing the Lib and NDP platforms, the NDP are easily better on home care and faculty renewal, which are probably the two issues that affect me most directly. In principle, I tend to prefer their views on socializing Hydro and avoiding the P3 model for infrastructure. Harden also identifies as a democratic socialist, citing Libby Davies and Niki Ashton as models.

Anyone have any thoughts on Trudeau's stepping in to block the Chinese takeover of Aecon? The issue still seems a little nebulous to me. It's a surprisingly protectionist move for him but I can see credible reasons why it might be the right thing to do.

Final ON debate about to start

Wow @ Wynne: "I am sorry that more people don't like me" in her opening statement!

Not sure if I can take this much Doug

Live streaming here if you can stomach it

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/how-to-watch-leaders-debate-may-27-1.4679033

Lol "the NDP are running radical activists as candidates who take their inspiration from Adolf Hitler"

The Wynne/Horwath dynamic here is incredible, like sisters who hate each other.

Maybe it's the podcast producer in me but I can't fucking stand crosstalk. I had to turn it off.

"It's insulting that those of us who have worked so hard are now being told that we have to make way for apparently the next generation,” said homeowner Mary Lavin

Like, I'm pretty sure that's how generations work.

taxes that they have the option to defer, it really should be noted

We, citizens of Canada, are now proud owners of the Trans Mountain Pipeline, I would like to congratulate everyone in this thread for this achievement.

Wow, fuck Trudeau.

uuuuuuuuuuugh jfc

https://ottawa.craigslist.ca/hvo/d/for-sale-stalled-and/6601355647.html

oh man

Nestled in a cosy right of way, with mountain, river and ocean views, and through prime agricultural and dense residential real estate in Vancouver's red-hot housing market! Close to schools, day cares and community centres. (the neighbours can be a little loud, but we find it's easiest just to ignore them.

fuck trudeau

Seriously, this is the angriest I've ever been at the guy.

yeah same.

Only redeeming thing that could happen at this point is that they sell it back to the first nations communities but who am I kidding.

Canada has been Alberta's oyster for far too long.

such an incredibly desperate move from the canadian gov't

it's times like these when i think can the gov't be this dumb or do they know something we don't?

either way, even from a business/oil perspective, this isn't a good move

further proves my point that this country is incredibly divided because oil benefits fewer and fewer people every decade

let's see how long it'll take people to rethink the economy before its collapse

From the Toronto Star:

But others were quick to criticize the decision. The Canadian Taxpayers’ Federation condemned the move, saying it would saddle taxpayers with costs that should be borne by the private sector.

“This decision represents both a colossal failure of the Trudeau government to enforce the law of the land, and a massive, unnecessary financial burden on Canadian taxpayers,” the federation said in a statement.

“This move sets a terrible precedent and signals to other prospective investors that large projects such as pipelines cannot be built by private industry in Canada,” it said.

Green Party Leader Elizabeth May called it a “huge subsidy to fossil fuels.

“Kinder Morgan laughing all the way to the bank. KM gets $4.5 billion and walks away. Canada to raise money to build $7.4 billion project,” May said on Twitter.

You know you made a mistake when May and the CTF kinda agree on something.

more than maybe anything else he's done so far, Trudeau deserves to be crushed (electorally speaking) for this

if there's an event in your city protesting this today, please attend. for vancouverites it's 5.30, next to science world

MORE: This is what speakers at the #stopkindermorgan rally are seeing from the stage area. @CTVVancouver #bcpoli #canpoli pic.twitter.com/D4qu5pZXDh

— Penny Daflos (@PennyDaflos) May 30, 2018

Does the TMX announcement has any influence on the Ontario race?

I don't think it would (but I'm often wrong). Even if people were to confuse provincial parties with federal ones, the Tories and the NDP - the two frontrunners - both oppose this plan. (Unless maybe the Liberals experience a surge because people in Ontario are excited about this.)

Tooclosetocall is apparently projecting that the NDP could win a plurality of votes but the PCs could win a majority government, which seems obscene unless we stop whipping MPPs (but it might be because I am drunk tbf): http://www.tooclosetocall.ca/2018/05/projections-update-for-may-30th-almost.html

That would be a perfect hellworld scenario

april 2018 article on how to deal with the energy sector

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-sustainable-way-forward-for-canadas-energy-sector/

Herein lies the real future for both Canada and the United States in energy competitiveness. Rather than building pipelines that will soon be shut, Canadians and Americans should be building a smart grid to carry renewable energy between the two countries. Canada’s renewable energy is vast right across the country. Alberta, fortunately, has vast wind and hydroelectric power potential to enable the province to continue to be a major exporter of energy, only this time with zero-carbon energy that is sustainable for the long haul.

With Donald Trump trying to break the Paris climate agreement and championing fossil-fuel development, it may seem convenient to Canada’s politicians to go along with the U.S. President’s fossil-fuel recklessness. Yet Mr. Trump will be gone and human-induced climate change will remain. Canada is clever enough to look beyond Mr. Trump to its true long-term interests and those of the world.

also canada-us trade wars are a go

https://forexlive.com/news/!/trudeau-says-us-steel-and-aluminum-tariffs-are-totally-unacceptable-20180531

From https://slate.com/business/2018/05/trump-and-nafta-negotiations-arent-going-well-according-to-this-justin-trudeau-story.html

Trudeau told reporters that he thought negotiations over NAFTA were going well enough that last week he suggested a in-person meeting with Trump and Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto in Washington to hammer out a final deal. “We already had the bones of a very good agreement for all parties, and I thought it might be opportune for all of us to sit down for a few hours and discuss it,” he said. On Tuesday, Vice President Mike Pence called to say, sure, the White House would host the meeting, but only if Trudeau agreed in advance to add a five-year sunset clause to NAFTA, meaning that the pact would expire after five years unless the U.S., Canada, and Mexico all agreed to renew it. “So I answered that, unfortunately, if that was a precondition to our visit, I was unable to accept — and so we did not go to Washington for that day of negotiations.”

the Tories and the NDP ... both oppose this plan.

After typing this, it occurred to me that this might have been JT's intention: to get the Conservatives and NDP on the same side of an issue and allow him to possibly scoop up a mushy middle that is not ideologically dead-set against either pipelines or state ownership. His Dad did this: the 1974 budget was calculated to be too left-wing for the Tories and not left enough for the socialists, so that an election was forced and the Liberals won a majority. (I have no idea whether this will work or not for JT but just a thought.)

jesus fucking christttt

BREAKING: @Kathleen_Wynne will today concede she will no longer be premier after Thursday and urge voters to elect as many @OntLiberal MPPs as possible to prevent giving a majority PC or NDP government a "blank cheque," the @TorontoStar has learned. #onpoli

— Robert Benzie (@robertbenzie) June 2, 2018

CBC Poll Tracker is now predicting one (1) seat for the Liberals. (Ottawa-Vanier, I'm guessing?) They're also still predicting an NDP/PC tie in the popular vote and an 85% chance of a PC majority in the seat count, which is infuriating.

The cratering of Liberal support worries me because my suspicion is always that Liberal voters in the affluent suburbs of Toronto and Ottawa will pick the Tories every time if they have to choose between the Tories and NDP. (Note that Wynne expresses zero preference for either of those parties over the other.)

I never hated Wynne as much as most of the province does, until just now.

(Note that Wynne expresses zero preference for either of those parties over the other.)

That she's conceding (politicians rarely do, so that's unusually honest) but not at least suggesting--she doesn't need to urge, just suggest--her voters switch to the NDP is pretty bad.

The NDP should know their place is to support the Libs in a minority situation, really. #sorrynotsorry

Got a call from a Stop Ford group asking how I'd be voting and if I needed help getting to the polls or any information about when/how to vote.

Looking at the tooclosetocall projections, what's the Ontario equivalent of going to Michigan? Sarnia? Nipissing? Peterborough-Kawartha?

Holy shit, my riding (currently Liberal) listed as 99% likelihood to flip NDP. Goddamn.

I emailed the NDP today, asking if there's some kind of campaign to GOTV in swing ridings I could volunteer with this week. Does anyone happen to know of an organized campaign like this? Somehow there seemed to be a lot of online strategic voting campaigns when the Libs were in the lead in the last federal election.

(Leadnow is doing this.)

This is kind of fascinating - our government might be applying a version of strategic voting when it comes to the items they're slapping tariffs on: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/steel-tariff-maple-syrup-toilet-paper-1.4686833

Yeah Trudeau was really given a timely opportunity to become Canada's champion right after the TMX blunder. Good on him to use this to his full advantage, up to us to not forget.

interesting

did some digging around and found info on canada-us bilateral trade

http://www.agr.gc.ca/eng/industry-markets-and-trade/international-agri-food-market-intelligence/united-states-and-mexico/canada-united-states-bilateral-trade/?id=1453911839961

trump's pulling an art of the deal shtick, if i were to guess

though it all looks like political theatre on both sides to me

my suspicion is always that Liberal voters in the affluent suburbs of Toronto and Ottawa will pick the Tories every time if they have to choose between the Tories and NDP.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r)

680 had a poll this morning that said, post-Wynne's concession, Ford's back in a majority position.

Tbf, the CBC Poll Tracker has been predicting a 77-85% chance of a PC majority the whole time. If anything, the numbers have dropped more recently. I gather that the Tooclosetocall riding-level predictions are pretty sketchy. The most we can probably do at this point is vote NDP (maybe Liberal if you're in the type of suburban riding that could go Lib or PC but never NDP), phonebank swing ridings, and hope. Unless anyone knows a Russian hacker.

fuck Thursday is gonna suck sooooo much goddamn it, I'm already mentally preparing myself

what's truly sickening is guys like THIS are going to be running the province. he's also apparently being sued for running a fake immigration consultancy scam.

If anyone's in downtown Ottawa right now, there's an anti-KM 'snap action' in front of Catherine McKenna's riding office at 107 Catherine in 20m (at 11 am). V short notice but I just checked my email and decided to go.

By all accounts, my riding will likely/hopefully be sticking with its (incumbent) NDP candidate, but our PC candidate is this gem:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-ontario-andrew-lawton-pc-1.4653131

Tbc, I don't think those are unbeatable odds. If we can block a Tory majority, we will see either a progressive coalition or a PC minority govt that will probably be fairly ineffectual and short-lived.

for now i am hoping we see more charges out of the 407 theft and the riding nomination shenanigans. police just announced they are investigation the PC candidate in Scarb/Guildwood for threatening someone who asked why he was skipping debates. might not be before the election, but if more people have to step down could affect the majority/minority status.
right now it's close in doug's riding - just donated to his NDP rival. i could accept a PC majority if doug manages to lose his seat. pretty sure Wynne is going to lose hers.

If we can block a Tory majority, we will see either a progressive coalition or a PC minority govt

A "progressive coalition" where one party actively supports bosses over unions and workers would not be a progressive coalition tbh.

Bill 148 is one of the most progressive pieces of labour legislation I've seen put forth by a major government in recent times. I'm not even sure any NDP-led government has been much better on labour issues. I don't know what better governing partner we could expect for a left-wing party.

There are some undeniably decent reforms in there but there's absolutely no reason a genuine left party wouldn't demand more/better, and without strike-quashing state intervention.

I'll settle for a liberal coalition if "progressive" is too strong of a word!

lmao I am probably too persnickety about these things

Voted.

Wow:

some fascinating new polling data from @abacusdataca: 20% of ontarians have already voted, and the race is too close to call: "Based on our read of the numbers, we think the race is impossible to predict." #onpoli #election2018

— Steve Paikin (@spaikin) June 4, 2018

The widow and children of Toronto mayor Rob Ford have sued Doug Ford alleging he has deprived them of millions of dollars, including shares in the family business and a life insurance policy left behind to support his family.

In a $16.5-million lawsuit, filed Friday in Superior Court, Renata Ford also alleges that Doug Ford is a “negligent” business manager whose decisions have led to a steady decrease in the value of the Ford company, Deco Labels. Despite setting his sight on a political career, Doug has continued to receive “extravagant compensation,” even though Deco is losing money, Renata claims in her court filings.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/06/04/rob-fords-widow-sues-doug-ford-alleging-he-has-deprived-them-of-millions.html

this would sink almost any normal human - but i have a feeling, since he can pull off a fucking majority with even 34% of the vote, that most people voting PC would still take a millionaire ripping off the wife and children of his deceased brother while also tanking the family business over the "commies".
a good chunk of his base probably think what he's doing is some great "alpha male" power move.

oh yeah this won't impact the election at all, just thought it worthy of note

I wonder if it might even help him by helping to distance him from Rob's baggage.

Voted. Now to despair.

Indeed.

Out of curiosity, is there any precedent in Canadian history for a party winning a majority government without even winning a plurality of the popular vote?

the National Post has some examples.

So what were the actual numbers that have people talking about reform?

Dalton McGuinty pulled off a political coup by becoming a three-peat Premier. But it is not as if the majority of Ontarians loved him. The Liberals took 53 seats with 37% of the vote. The Tories were two percentage points behind, but only won 37 seats. In Manitoba, the NDP took 37 seats with 46% of the vote while the Conservatives took a mere 19 seats with the backing of 44% of the voters. In P.E.I. the Liberals won 22 seats on 51.4% of the vote while the Tories took a piddling five seats on 40.6%. “Every election gives us new horror stories because of our voting system,” said Wayne Smith, executive director of Fair Vote Canada. “You can conclude [from these results] that there is something seriously wrong with the Canadian political system. It is almost as if the majority of voters end up getting no real representation at all.”

Are there worse examples?

One of the most extreme examples came in the Quebec provincial election of 1998. The Parti Québécois won 76 seats to the Liberals’ 48. But the PQ had a lower popular vote than its Grit rival.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/what-the-why-seat-counts-never-match-the-popular-vote

Thanks. The Quebec example is the only one that meets the criteria I was looking for but, yeah, it definitely shows that it's possible.

Ontario election newspaper endorsements in review:

Sun: PCs
National Post: PCs
Globe: Declined to endorse
Star: The NDP if necessary, but not necessarily the NDP

Our left wing media at work! #ONpoli #ONelxn

— Luke Savage (@LukewSavage) June 5, 2018

The Ottawa Citizen's PC endorsement was something else: http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-the-progressive-conservatives-should-form-the-next-ontario-government

One highlight:

Only the PCs are placed to even begin an honest conversation with Ontarians about other models and innovations that work in other jurisdictions;

It's not that they have a plan or even any ideas, you see. They are *placed* to begin a ~conversation~.

How does a newspaper decide who to endorse? I mean it's easy to understand how the Sun and Post go PC, but how do the Globe come to their ridiculous conclusion? or The Star?

Here's the Globe editor's response to how they came up with their ridiculous 2015 federal election endorsement.

Rex Herrington Mr. Walmsley in the interests of transparency and accountability could you inform your readers as to who made this decision is was it a board decision, a senior managers decision or did the owner just ask you to "take this memo!"? Seriously this is even more convoluted than your 2011 endorsement. Why did you not just abstain? Cowardly but oh so much more honest

The Globe and Mail Great question that highlights many questions in one. So I will take a bit of time with this. At The Globe and Mail, unlike at other newspapers, the editorial board answers to the editor in chief, not the publisher and not the proprietor. We publish editorials every day. We have views every day. It is routine business. The editorials are the position of the newspaper, and as the editor in chief, ex-officio the chair the editorial board, I make the call. I also out of courtesy tell the publisher. This is a franchise play and the publisher should know. But there is no ownership involvement at any stage. As an editor in chief for 18 months I rely heavily on my publisher, who has been in the business a long time. I go to him on many occasions for advice. In the summer I wanted to bounce off him my idea to play big the image of young Alan Kurdi, the young Syrian refugee who drowned. That was also a franchise play. He agreed with my decision, but he didn't make the decision. On this endorsement, and on any other decision, they are mine to make. Of course if there is a serious disagreement, the publisher is my boss. That has never happened to my knowledge when it comes to endorsements.

https://www.facebook.com/theglobeandmail/posts/10153602685703904

So it's a franchise play to be cowards? **thinking emoji**

I feel like I'm a little disappointed with the strategic voting campaigns this time compared to the last federal election, even though it might be more necessary this time. Even Leadnow is just asking people to vote 'against Ford'. In 2015, they actively endorsed the individual candidate who had the best chance of beating the Tory in each riding. Unless it's just because everyone realizes that the NDP is the strategic option.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/06/05/pc-candidate-raymond-cho-apologizes-over-physical-altercation-with-grade-7-student-outside-scarborough-school.html

Admittedly the actual story is a bit of a letdown after seeing the headline, but still very on the PC brand.

More Tory shadiness: https://www.facebook.com/deborah.reid.16/posts/10155302300690957

Haven't seen much reported on it tbh although there's another tweet:

This is my riding. Unreal.

Also, why is the Progressive in Progressive Conservative in scare quotes? https://t.co/Uk3M1ZpkHo

— Siobhan Morris (@siomo) June 6, 2018

Assuming it's real, it's pretty shady.

"We meant 'Liberals' as in classical liberals!"

That is hilarious

And in the gloom column:

We will be putting out final numbers later today . We are still in field and reserving option of going till 9 but everything seems pretty frozen right now . Barring some shocking late shift or turnout skew this is going to be a Conservative majority .

— Frank Graves (@VoiceOfFranky) June 6, 2018

fuuuuuuuuuck

in the lol dept:

According to the sources, Trudeau pressed Trump on how he could justify the tariffs as a "national security" issue. In response, Trump quipped to Trudeau, "Didn't you guys burn down the White House?" referring to the War of 1812.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/06/politics/war-of-1812-donald-trump-justin-trudeau-tariff/

just thinking of ways i'd answer that if i were trudeau, and i'm getting so many lols

https://open.spotify.com/track/7EcLeCDAzau3QdCnsmT4R4?si=VoQ3R1z8S5i7gSCxS5mYMg

I mean, it's not terrible as a joke and probably the height of wit by Trump's standards.

(It's not really "erroneous" imo.)

"don -- can we narrow it down to the last oh i dunno decade? century? cool?"

Ha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLIP0ZtoiO4

Happy doomsday everyone. (I voted, obv)

good luck ontario (but we're all fukt)

Let's get this over with.

Seriously.

CBC calling it for the PC. This is happening fast.

Fuck.

Congrats Ontario, you are officially as stupid as America.

Not even close.

Well, at least it was over fast.

Fuck this country.

hey hey we didn’t all elect Ford

If it's any comfort, Quebec will soon follow suit by electing Legault so we can all be morons together, a fucking gaggle of them, all over the continent.

A majority government, though. For fuck's sake.

I hope Ford finds a way to keep his campaign song around. "F-o-o-o-r-r-r-r the people..." It was just so catchy.

Pom... give me my few months left.

Torch the goddamn suburbs.

Apparent low youth turnout, which is especially unsurprising in this election.

Can't argue with that. Preemptively, in our case.

And sorry VHS, it's just that I think the cue to abandon all hope was the most humane part of the Inferno.

xp

Youth deserves the bullshit happening to them imo

I don't agree.

If they don’t vote, it’s really on them.

If they don't vote, the strategies to make clear to them that there are in fact political solutions to problems they face clearly aren't working. I'm not interested in blaming them for thinking all the establishment parties are full of shit or not capable of acting in their interest. That gets us nowhere.

the provincial NDP are still seen by so many as a joke option and while they've made clear gains, a lot more work needs to be done to build their credibility.

I heard so many anecdotes from friends of people saying "really??" when they announced they were voting NDP. I heard the same from my own father. They're going to need to be a relentless, principled, and bold opposition for the entirety of Ford's term, and they're going to get little to no media support while they're at it.

I had precious little notion of where I stood politically in my late teens and early 20s so I feel for their disarray. If anything, it's the 'elderly' who should know better.

it's really frustrating that the NDP had a real albeit difficult path to victory this election

Well it's a chicken and egg situation really, but so far I do have a cliché picture in my head of a bunch of old conservative laughing in unison at the idea of 'the youth vote' while racking the suburbs. The problems they face won't solve themselves without voting for parties who have their interest at heart.

in BC I only know a couple people who grew up supporting the Liberals, they're not a party people feel a bond with. I've realized in the last few election cycles that in Ontario very few people grow up NDP.

I mean elections cycles in Canada are really: Liberals get elected for a long time, people grow to hate them, they vote PC, realize their mistakes, vote Liberal a few years later and feel good about themselves until ... etc.

NDP vote shares in the last three elections, in reverse chronological order: 22%, 16%, 16%. This time: looking like about 34%.

some interesting data for ontario

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-election-results-2018-a-map-of-the-live-results/

Howarth has done a good job building the base and recognizing that they do better when they run on a more distinctly left platform from the Liberals, but I'd like to see Ashton or someone similarly tough there to go after Ford.

Also, ffs first past the post needs to not exist anymore.

That goes without saying.

we're trying!

.@fordnation, the son of an MPP, will have a caucus with the sons of two premiers, the daughter of a prime minister, and the son of another MPP. #onpoli

— Robert Benzie (@robertbenzie) June 8, 2018

Thread title sickeningly prophetic.

Man, just when I move back too.

Are you in Sarnia, Sund4r?

Ottawa. I've never lived in Sarnia but I lived in Windsor (a real Dipper town) from 08-11.

Wrt symsymsym's point above, I've heard it said in broad terms that London, ON, is the dividing line: if you go west, the NDP becomes the main alternative to the Tories, at least federally; east of there, it's the Libs. The Liberal Party is practically a mythic force along the Laurentian corridor.

Woah the Libs have been in power for 15 years.

so i was this watching this disaster unfold at a local pub - and there's three old white dudes sitting next to our table who were just the fucking worst. i wanted to punch one of them.
on Gurratan Singh: "He's a terrorist, you know... look – he's a Sikh. They're all terrorists". my friend and i made it painfully obvious we had stopped what we were doing to glare at this guy.
another dude was apparently running as a libertarian in some other riding, who managed to get ~120 votes (good for him, seriously). he was talking loudly about what a great "man of the people" doug is - because he dropped out of school to work at the family biz and wasn't some educated "elite". like everyone out there inherits a house, a million dollar family business and extensive political connections - never has to do a job interview or worry about money. ugh.

sorry dudes

Torch the goddamn suburbs.

The election results feel a bit like class warfare (especially when I quit a good job to come back here to care for a disabled spouse). The riding map is interesting: the NDP's coalition is the mix of working class/FN mix in Northern Ontario + the urban core of most big cities, with the PCs taking the suburbs, cottage country, and rural ridings. I'm thinking that the most fruitful angle for the NDP might actually be to leave the suburbs for the Tories and Grits and try to target lower income rural voters.

On the class war tip: http://www.nsnews.com/news/west-vancouverites-revolt-as-school-tax-looms-1.23330273

breaking out my tiniest violin

Pavlov suggested that overall tax increases are hurting affordability.
“If you’re a buyer, the fact that the home price is cheaper does nothing to help you.”
Fellow panellist Seain Conover concurred, addressing the argument that homeowners were only being asked to pay “a little bit” more.
“That’s a very disingenuous argument because when you pile on a whole bunch of expenses to an asset, the asset becomes less desirable,” he said.

Some great lessons in economics right there

a friend of mine made this:

It's @swanson4council and her big box of Jeanex for mansion owners complaining about higher taxes #vanpoli #bcpoli pic.twitter.com/QU9KIPuiiN

— Michal Rozworski (@michalrozworski) June 9, 2018

https://www.straight.com/news/1087731/jean-swanson-shows-theatrical-side-announcing-her-candidacy-vancouver-city-council

The tax will create many unintended victims, according to Wood.

“It’s not going to affect me,” he said. “I know you want to get me because you don’t like me, but your fake school tax doesn’t hurt me at all. It just cost the B.C. hospitals and schools because I just cut out my charitable contributions.”

Cool philosophy brah.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/06/10/trans-mountain-spill-48-times-larger-than-bc-government-first-reported.html

The B.C. Ministry of Environment says the spill volume reported from the company’s Darfield station north of Kamloops on May 27 has been revised to 4,800 litres from 100 litres.

It says 100 litres is the minimum threshold under the company’s spill reporting obligations, so that’s why the ministry estimated 100 litres at the time.

Trans Mountain spokesperson Ali Hounsell says the company never provided an estimate of how much medium crude oil escaped, other than to confirm with regulators that it was over the reportable threshold.

“Trans Mountain had not provided an estimate of the volume spilled, other than to confirm with regulators that it was over the reportable threshold, until cleanup had sufficiently progressed to a stage where an accurate estimation could be provided,” she said in an email.

Great.

Looks like sensible taxes and landlord-tenancy regulations are actually working to cool rents in Vancouver: https://globalnews.ca/news/4267960/vancouver-rental-costs/

check out those median prices, it's crazy:

The median rental rate for a two-bedroom unit was $2,800 in May, representing no change from the month before.

Meanwhile, the median rate for a studio was $1,700, up 0.59 per cent month-over-month, and it was $1,952 for one-bedroom units, which were up 0.13 per cent from the previous month.

Oh, not denying that. That said: https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ma/boston/

that site is a cool resource

i guess i should be happy that the high prices are now rising more slowly lol.

not looking forward to my next apartment search, which is immanent, probably in the fall

No wonder François Legault is doing so well in the polls: https://www.ledevoir.com/societe/530632/les-quebecois-et-leur-systeme-de-sante

Approximately 48% of Quebecers, women more so than men, believe immigration poses a 'great risk'.

Disgusting and reactionary but hardly surprising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABc8ciT5QLs

great song

Yeah, legalization is the right thing but I hope it doesn't distract from the pipeline. This is unsurprising but still disappointing: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/06/18/trudeau-trump-child-migrant_a_23462117/ . Really, the Safe Third Country Agreement should have probably been suspended when a country-based travel ban was first attempted.

Absolutely.

He has condemned it now but no word on suspending the Safe Third Country Agreement (which even Chris Alexander wants to do at this point): https://globalnews.ca/news/4285443/justin-trudeau-donald-trump-child-detention-cages/

"He has condemned it" where "he" = Justin Trudeau and "it" = separation of undocumented adults and children travelling together into the US

As usual with him, just fuckin' words. I'd be surprised if any concrete steps were ever taken.

Justin is a great advocate for any refugees who don't come to Canada

He's barely even that tbf.

Lol @

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said today the Trump administration's policy of separating illegal migrants from their children is "wrong," just hours before the U.S. president signalled he's prepared to change course and end the practice.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-trump-children-separated-1.4713984

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/peter-khill-not-guilty-in-shotgun-shooting-of-jon-styres-1.4723854?cmp=FB_Post_News

Another travesty. The First Nations' life seen by our judicial system as basically worthless.

Kind of interesting to remember when a 20something female bartender became an MP in an upset election and the Canadian press mostly loled.

(I'll acknowledge that it was a little different in that she didn't campaign and didn't visit her riding during the election.)

God, that feels like a million years ago.

None of it surprising, but the swiftness with which Ford is repealing education bills (infrastructure, sex-ed, and native-related curriculum) is, um, impressive. Glad I won't be there (I hope--he moves fast) when he moves on to teachers.

I'm mad about it as it is; can't imagine how livid I'd be if I was raising a kid here.

The similar dedication to reversing 15 years of environmental progress (cap and trade, Green Ontario fund, an almost-complete wind farm) in a month's time has honestly been so stunning that I've been too demoralized to even, like, post on the Internet about it.

It's just such naked revanchism. I've never seen anything like it in Canadian politics - not this blatant, not this swift.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-deceit-that-was-the-bc-liberals-case-for-power/

Hearing that the TO anti-Ford rally this past weekend was kind of a bust in terms of attendance, both I suspect due to delays (it was originally supposed to happen two weeks back) and general demoralization. Also heard via other activists that some organizers were recommending that members of "privileged groups" consider not attending, which is just spectacularly wrongheaded in my opinion.

Have to say I didn't expect the Tories to roll over so quickly on this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-sex-ed-changes-1.4748650

Unsurprising but still infuriating and exhausting how fast they do this: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-government-cancels-758-renewable-energy-contracts-1.4012449#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=4ipXTEh

FUCK.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/07/22/toronto-danforth-pape-shooting-injures-several-people_a_23487321/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage

Hoping all the ilx Torontonians are safe and sound.

CBC says police confirmed shooter is dead.

Some people I met recently live v close to that intersection and I'm trying to get in touch

God, I hope the child is going to be fine.

Moved the discussion to a new thread: Mass Shooting in Toronto

Any takes from ilx Torontonians on the Doug Ford cuts to the Toronto Council? Seems absolutely nuts to me and don't know how he has such a mandate.

Exactly what I posted on Facebook today. Sund4r says that city councils are indeed the domain of Queen's Park.

Isn't that insane? I can see where they'd have some oversight, if one side started gerrymandering in a really obvious way, but cities ought to be able to organize themselves as they choose. Ford's motivations aren't hard to figure out.

I am beyond enraged over this.

It's horrible and it's going to work.

I honestly don’t see how this is do-able without pushing the election back. The province still needs to vote on it and then that leaves very little time to basically reorganize a massive bureaucracy. People - who have already started campaigning and taking donations, will be out that money and everyone will have to re-register etc.
the timing alone makes the logistics impossible - and I’m sure if it comes to it, a court might have to weigh in.

Then there’s the fact these new boundaries contravene a recent Supreme Court rulling that Toronto has to have even representation (ford’s plan would skew too heavily to the suburbs). So even long term, his thing could get killed before ford is voted out of office.

Do you have a link about that Supreme Court ruling?

i can't seem to find anything, sorry.

I think it's time we revisit the governmental dichotomy of province/federation and let cities decide a little more for themselves.

Also I felt that was otm:

https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/the-secret-no-government-wants-you-to-know-no-leader-has-a-mandate/

Whether the leaders’ ideas are good or bad in these cases is moot—it’s the mechanisms by which powerful politicians turn their ideas into policies that is troubling. Citing a mandate and leaving it at that is simply inconsistent with how we do democracy, which is why mandates are sneaky tools for manipulation. Governments should be accountable and responsive to all the people they serve. Merely citing a mandate chosen by some mythical voter runs counter to this democratic imperative. Instead of offering an open, responsive, inclusive politics, when a politician like Ford cites a “mandate,” he is preparing to steamroll through some policy or law by citing some fabricated moral authority. As voters, if we dislike what the premier and his cabinet are doing, we can protest. We can write scathing opinion pieces. We can write to our representatives to voice our displeasure. We can launch court challenges. We can run for office ourselves. We can vote for another party in the next election. We can dedicate ourselves to reforming the system. That is what we can do. And before we start, we can understand how our system works so that we are prepared to counter the sophistry or ignorance of cynical or lazy politicians who dare wield the wobbly sword of the “mandate.”

If anything, this should be a case--clearly Ford's driven by personal vindictiveness on two or three different fronts--where the federal government steps in and says, "Whoa--back it up, guy."

Section 92 of the 1867 Constitution Act:

EXCLUSIVE POWERS OF PROVINCIAL LEGISLATURES

Subjects of exclusive Provincial Legislation 92. In each Province the Legislature may exclusively make Laws in relation to Matters coming within the Classes of Subjects next hereinafter enumerated; that is to say,
...
8. Municipal Institutions in the Province.

So if there was a SCC ruling concerning municipal-level representation of Toronto city districts, that seems like it would be U&K.

(It's a terrible idea that should be fought, though, tbc.)

I just read the Moscrop piece from Maclean's, which is very good and summarizes my point about the constitution, I see now.

Don't think I've ever done this, don't think I'll ever do it again, but a link to NOW

http://nowtoronto.com/news/doug-ford-toronto-council/

Disallowance, that's the way to go.

Trudeau would never have the balls use it. he'd get destroyed the next election for "meddling" despite the epic amount of irony, in that he would be stepping in to stop anti-democratic meddling.

http://pressprogress.ca/doug-fords-north-korean-style-news-broadcasts-are-being-funded-with-your-tax-dollars/

I watched that last night! We've got our very own Kayleigh McEnany in Lyndsey Vanstone.

Are taxpayer dollars funding naked propaganda?

http://pressprogress.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/vanstone-dougtv.jpg

Finally read that and, wow, that's infuriating.

So apparently we're in a diplomatic battle and trade war with Saudi Arabia over Freeland's criticisms of their punishment of political activisits, which was itself somewhat half-assed but at least a step in the direction. Funniest consequence so far: https://newrepublic.com/minutes/150408/saudi-arabia-threatens-support-quebecs-secession-canada . They might need to take some trolling tips from the Russians.

SA threatening to do 9/11 Pt. 2 to Canada is the funniest thing to happen in a long time.

This is actually kind of nuts: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-saudi-arabia-to-withdraw-all-saudi-students-studying-at-canadian/

I liked the explanation for this whole thing here https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-saudi-arabias-bold-move-has-nothing-to-do-with-canada/

The timing of the Saudi announcement is also meant to deflect public and regional criticism from another of the Crown Prince’s foreign policy blunders: Jerusalem and the so-called Kushner peace plan. A few weeks ago, the Saudis signalled that they might support Donald Trump’s son in-law Jared Kushner’s so-called Israeli-Palestinian peace plan, which included recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Reportedly, Mr. Kushner and the Crown Prince have an amicable relationship, and the Saudis were using their economic and political muscle in the region to push the proposal through with reluctant Arab governments, particularly that of Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas. While the Crown Prince has had a long leash from his father, King Salman, the regional and public heat was apparently too much for the older monarch, and in an unexpected move, the King overturned his son’s foreign policy proposal and reaffirmed the long-standing Saudi position on the matter.

For a leader who is used to the nationalist support of his young and energized followers, it was time for Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to get the Saudi people riled up again. Enter Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland – a woman, no less. Ms. Freeland’s tweet was easy fodder for the macho Saudi Twittersphere. The resulting poke to the eye of the feminist Trudeau government is a perceived win in the Saudi foreign policy community and a helpful distraction from a few weeks of domestic embarrassment for the Crown Prince over his father’s rebuke.

This is basically the same kind of thing as Trump distracting the media by making a big deal out of the NFL players taking a knee during the national anthem.

disrupting your students' educations to own the libs

They might need to take some trolling tips from the Russians.

Looks like they have, at least if we assume that the Russian and 4chan schools of trolling are one and the same: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/07/saudi-arabia-canada-toronto-cn-tower-9-11-photo-apology

Spent 1-2 hours in the car today, and it was buck-a-beer, buck-a-beer all over 680. Utterly ridiculous.

Lol

It looks like a lot of breweries are basically saying take a hike, son.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/08/08/analysis/kinder-morgan-just-told-its-shareholders-how-it-persuaded-trudeau-government-pay

A lawyer for one of the directly affected nations, the Tsleil-Waututh, has said it could use evidence uncovered by National Observer that the government had made a decision to approve the project before concluding its consultations with First Nations as grounds for an appeal to the Supreme Court, as part of its case to terminate the project. The case is currently under review at the Federal Court of Appeal, which rejected the news articles as "hearsay."

so kinder morgan gave us an ultimatum and we took the bait

oh and there's also this

https://www.wsj.com/articles/canada-comes-under-fire-for-money-laundering-lapses-1533729600

if you're blocked: https://pastebin.com/Ar7XdGud

god I hate this dumbass country

Eh, I just moved to the UK for work after spending some time in France and Romania and there's nothing I want more right now than to find a job back in Montreal so I can properly settle there. Not that it's going to happen given the vicissitudes of the academic job market but really, in terms of overall dumbfuckery there's far worse out there.

I do share your exasperation regarding this particular piece of news though.

Four dead in a shooting in Fredericton, NB

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/08/10/fredericton-shooting_a_23499817

To hell with guns, Trudeau can partly win me back if he passes stronger regulations.

I don't passionately care about the sex-ed issue for reasons I won't get into here, but I of course think Ford's being ridiculous and meddlesome. Just got an e-mail saying that ETFO's basically telling us to pay no mind.

"ETFO strongly denounces the government's decision and advises members to continue to exercise their professional judgement when it comes to teaching all sections of the 2015 curriculum...ETFO will vigorously defend members who continue to follow the 2015 Health Curriculum."

Pretty sure teachers will also ignore him when it comes to the social studies curriculum. Love it--take a hike, son.

Quebec's election season starts on August 23rd.

https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/canada-is-one-of-the-most-socially-mobile-countries-in-the-world-heres-why/

It says more about the 34 other countries than Canada.

That's interesting. I didn't expect that, to be honest, but it's good to know. Hope this Premier isn't able to foul that up too badly. I'm looking forward to reading more of the OECD study.

I'm not surprised. Let's check in again after the next global recession - the one we don't dodge.

who is going to win the quebec election? god we are so fucked

http://blog.qc125.com/ for polls might be one of your best sources Sym.

And it sounds like it's going to be abhorrent CAQ. But the Liberals are very very good at elections.

took me an embarrassingly long time to parse the Liberal logo as an L

But the Liberals are very very good at elections.

literally the only thing

Well they just might be the only party with 5+ seats that gives a damn about immigrants.

But the Liberals are very very good at elections.

What I still thought going into the lasr ON election

*last

Ontario liberals don't have the weaponized referendum boogeyman.

Well they just might be the only party with 5+ seats that gives a damn about immigrants.

iirc the # of immigrants we take in is pretty minor compared to many other countries? (not disputing that the Tories are worse on this)

VHS's comment still seems fair in the context of Quebec Liberals vs other Quebec provincial parties.

Yes.

21% of Canadian population is foreign-born + the second generations of immigrants like me that straddle the lines between home culture + Canadian culture, so you are looking at a pretty substantial % of the population being potentially targeted by xenophobia like Bernier's, the CAQ's or the PQ's. On top of that you have ethnic groups that are bound to be considered like 'foreign' by these racists no matter how many decades their family have been Canadian citizens, which **sigh**. If we want to talk about how many immigrants Canada is taking, by 2015 we did better when compared to most other western nations, in both percentage and straight numbers. Stats here: https://www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/migration/data/estimates2/estimates15.shtml

Now I haven't checked how many of those immigrants live in the province of Quebec vs the other provinces but sadly the # of immigrants we take in is irrelevant at this point? What matters is how much noise the Le Pen-inspired nationalists/Quebecor media consortium is making about the 'non-quebecois' population and how it will impact their lives on a daily basis. The PLQ has been explicitly protecting their cause vis a vis of the nationalist who have been slowly and steadily escalating their rhetorics against 'foreign culture' and playing footsies with straight racist organized groups like la Meute. The famous PLQ face veil ban from a year ago is an obvious punt to the courts they did not care about and did little to calm the xenophobic anxieties. Couillard knew and knows it can't be legislated, that it can't survive the legal challenges it faces. So he did the strict minimum to make it die a slow death and make everyone look xenophobic as shit. Problem is the Journal de Montreal columnist and many nationalists don't give a shit about looking xenophobic anymore. And let's not paint the PLQ as champions either, they just happen to realize that the 'ethnic vote' is a vote nonetheless and that it was up for grabs since that odious term first entered the mainstream on that 1995 night.They mostly been in power since 2003 and systemic racism is still the MO and they did little to change that, even if it is unquestionable they remain the better option for anyone feeling excluded from the Pure Laine nation.

Lots of it is circumstantial but the Quebec economy is doing better than ever, and the famous welfare state that is the envy of the other provinces is still largely the same. Taxes have been reduced, the debt has been reduced, new hospitals have been built, rent is manageable, none of that is perfect but this is simply not a line of attack the opposition can use: 1. the CAQ promises the same kind of soft austerity that will work for as long as Canada GDP is growing by 3% and the Canadian dollar is not staged for Alberta only, 2. the PQ is still remembered as the great debt creator/have a raison d'être that has little to do with the economy and financial well being of the citizens, 3. sadly Quebec Solidaire has a hard time convincing the most-taxed population in North America... to pay more taxes. So basically this election cycle will be mostly about cultural stuff and the main cultural debate shifted from for and against sovereignty to for and against immigration.

Basically what that means is that we might be stuck between a Montreal-centred PLQ that is insanely corrupt and balances between hard and soft austerity for the pleasure of Power Corp, Bombardier and Couche-Tard and a rural/suburban oriented CAQ that think Islam can't exist in a democracy and balances between... hard and soft austerity for the pleasure of Power Corp, Bombardier and Couche-Tard.

I look at Notley and Horwath with great envy.

Also my go to vote in this fuckin provincial mess was the weed legalization dudes but obviously that isn't an option anymore.

Merci Justin.

thanks VHS, booming post. Quebec politics are hard to get my head around

thanks Sym, ILX might be my outlet for these things up until October 1st.

For anyone interested, there will be an english debate for the Quebec provincial elections (for the first time ever).

If anyone feel like I've hijacked the thread I'll make a specific one for the prov. elections.

this thread is pretty hijackable imo

well quebec is part of canada and this thread is hardly so busy as to require splintering threads to keep it on topic or something so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

yeah keep it here so we don't feel bad using this thread to bitch about bc and vancouver politix

lol sounds good

co-sign on keeping it all in here

a separate thread for quebec?

http://104.236.16.159/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/Referendum.jpg

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-government-says-it-will-discipline-teachers-who-dont-follow/

What's extra good about this is he's making it anonymous. Because it's not like a grade 7 or 8 student who's angry at a teacher for some reason would ever abuse it.

Ugh and wow

Heh, for a second I thought you were referring to this unsurprising piece of 'breaking' news, Sund4r (maybe you secretly were):

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-maxime-bernier-to-make-announcement-ahead-of-conservative-convention/

fits both! justin's going to be PM for the next 50 years

i'm ambivalent.

on the one hand: vote splitting on the right, potentially nullifies them as a political force under first past the post.

on the other hand: there is a good chance this results in a mainstream far-right federal political party with parliamentary representation

Former Harper policy director:

I hope Justin Trudeau and his cabinet colleagues are breaking out the champagne in Nanaimo this morning. Congratulations to @gmbutts & co. who have secured an easy win in 2019 despite a mostly terrible summer.

— Rachel Curran (@reicurran) August 23, 2018

Hey Maxime ..remember how I challenged you in an email? Remember how you blamed it all on people around you and how you apologized profusely? How you said you were committed to our team? Wow. You are such a 🐔💩.

— Todd Doherty (@ToddDohertyMP) August 23, 2018

Took me a while to understand he meant chicken shit.

We should probably set up a separate thread for Ford:

http://www.blogto.com/city/2018/08/doug-ford-climate-change/

no pipeline! there probably wasn't anything better for trudeau to have spent $4.5 billion on

Does it spell the end of it for sure?

no? but I don't think there's a clear path to getting it built anymore

I'm delighted. eat my shit, trudeau!

Can this affect whether the sale goes through?

Hopefully every time this govt talks about reconciliation someone will be wise enough to remind them they tried to pass a pipeline without consulting the FN people.

God bless the National Observer

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/08/08/analysis/kinder-morgan-just-told-its-shareholders-how-it-persuaded-trudeau-government-pay

As predicted by everyone the CAQ was ramped the xenophobic rhetoric: yesterday it was Legault claiming that 'our grandchildren won't speak french' if immigration continues the way it does. Today, he announces a program in which immigrants would have 3 years to learn french or else they would have the leave. But he doesn't want to call it deportation juuuust yet. The first has no data or evidence at all, as always with the white genocide argument. The second might never be possible because Quebec is part of Canada, still it's vile, just completely vile. I am stunned.

All of which would be whatever if Legault was a marginal candidate, but he is still comfortably leading the polls despite blunders (those blunders are not related to his xenophobia remarks). All of which would be whatever too if I saw a passionate response to this from Quebec media, or heck even Canadian, but it seems like it only gathers a collective shrug.

Also the young Montreal anglo who happens to not give two damns about Quebec politics but can name every chair of the SCOTUS is my new pet peeve (unless said young Montreal anglo is american).

thought i just had while inventing the stupid word "ilxit" for my dn--

brexit is not that clever, but quebexit would have been. did anyone use this phrase in either of the referendum years?

Nope

So Doug Ford just decided to suspend the charter.

how is this shit legal

I started a Ford thread a couple of weeks ago--I should have put a link here:

Dean Wormer's Revenge: The Doug Ford Thread

This province is dumb as fuck.

Now, now, don't overestimate your neighbours.

the notwithstanding clause is wild

Yeah, I'm trying to wrap my head around it. Wondering if this will make a difference (from G&M):

Is there any way to challenge the Ontario government’s use of the notwithstanding clause?

Yes. It could be challenged in court. University of Toronto law professor Lorraine Weinrib says this use of it appears not to be legally valid, because it is retrospective – that is, it applies to events that have already occurred. The use of the override section needs to be “prospective," to affect future events, the Supreme Court said in a 1988 case.

I guess because the campaigns have already started, it's now a retrospective application?

I mean, I strongly dislike Quebec's language laws but I can at least understand why they were important enough to francophone Quebec nationalists to warrant invoking the notwithstanding clause. Has Ford even given any explanation of why the number of Toronto city councillors is such a life-and-death issue for him? (Maybe he has; it's an honest question. I've been really occupied.)

smaller more effective government! lol

Not to go on a tangent here, but assuming you think protecting the French language in Quebec is important (I do), what alternative is there to the Loi 101? I loathe the xenophobic discourse it occasionally engenders, but I haven't quite figured out another effective solution to the problem.

Pomenitul, I'm pretty unconvinced that e.g. the regulations on commerce and signage (which were the basis for the Charter challenge iirc) are necessary for, or are doing much for, the protection of the French language in Quebec.

Eh, suit yourself. It has led to risible excesses on occasion, no doubt about that, but given that more than half of Québécois are functionally illiterate in their own language, a much higher percentage than the rest of Canadians, I think French needs all the help it can get. I know too many anglo Montrealers who don't speak a lick of French but who would never dare remain monolingual if they moved to France. Passivity is no solution unless, once again, you think language is just a matter of communication in the strict sense.

More than half of Quebecers are functionally illiterate in any language, right? And that's the case after decades of Bill 101? That's an education issue (and probably also a poverty issue - and there's plenty out there on the economic impacts of Bill 101). I don't see how regulating the colour, size, and position of English lettering on signs and business cards is helping that issue.

Focusing on signage is missing the point, imho – that's merely one, overexposed aspect of the Charter, which ignores all the other provisions (French as official language of Quebec, the right to be served in French, French as language of instruction, including for first generation immigrants such as myself, etc.). Quebec's poverty rate is also lower than that of most provinces, including Ontario, so I'm not convinced that's a key factor, especially when you consider that Quebec's economy has been performing quite well over the past few years.

French as official language of Quebec, the right to be served in French,

I have no issue with these provisions and I don't think these things were challenged on the basis of the Charter of Rights, or protected with the notwithstanding clause. (Feel free to correct me.) Will admit that I don't fully understand the afaict fairly complex provisions concerning the language of instruction and don't really have the time right at this moment to review them.

So maybe "strongly dislike Quebec's language laws" was an overstatement.

I'm hardly an expert when it comes to this, but as far as I can tell the Charter of Rights was only invoked once in relation to Bill 101, in 1984, to allow children receiving English instruction elsewhere in Canada to be exempt from French school in Quebec should their family choose to settle there. Otherwise, unless you were born to anglophone parents who have been established in Quebec for generations, you're meant to study in French until CEGEP/college (some immigrants circumvent this, which I personally think is a shame).

Tbf I get the sense that anglo-franco relations are way more peaceful nowadays than they used to be. Outside of Montreal anglos are still looked upon with some suspicion, but in the city interactions are generally quite chill between the so-called two solitudes as far as I can tell. For what it's worth, I remember witnessing an idiotic row a while back between two gentlemen at the gym, each in their own language, and not once did either of them resort to racist (in the broad sense) slurs. It was weirdly heartwarming.

The 1988 SCC ruling concerning the signage rules, followed by Bill 178 (an amendment of Bill 101 that explicitly invoked the notwithstanding clause) was what I was thinking of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_178

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/bill-178

Quebec also inserted the notwithstanding clause into all legislation from 82-87 aiui!
xp

Heh, so it was actually used against Bill 101, as it were. Interesting.

Sorry, I misunderstood.

It's not an unimportant tangent because it is central to the electoral debate in Quebec. So quick summary Sund4r, as much as I dislike quebec nationalism, la Loi 101 is a good law that I will defend. Signage represents a marginal set of policies of what it actually does, it gathers laughs from journalist because the absurdity of it is indeed hilarious but really it shouldn't be the focus.

The key part for me is that for elementary and high schools, the public options are only french speaking, which guarantees that the new waves of immigration have to foot a massive bill to ensure their kids learn english first and foremost. The next generation of kids is overwhelmingly french speaking, maybe the french that will be spoken will be different from what the pure-laine desires, maybe the next generation will be bilingual/trilingual, because turns out learning english is key in the north-american context, but french remains at the center of it all. The failure of french in Quebec, for which I don't know if it is real at all I'll be honest, would be an education problem, the school themselves, drop out rates are still a staggering 18%. It is 21% for kids of 1st and 2nd generation immigration.

Plus Toronto was on the rise on so many levels that the impact of Bill 101 was a shock, instead of banks and insurance companies gradually leaving Montreal forever bound to be the second city at one point. Privatized crown corporations like Air Canada and CN, which are english speaking today, are doing very well with Montreal as their home city.

(The signage regulations were the ones that were protected with the notwithstanding clause, which is why I was bringing them up in the context of that discussion.)

Got it.

I'm sure we all agree the notwithstanding clause is pure bullshit.

I honestly don't know why PET was willing to include it in the Charter in the first place.

Pretty sure PET didn't want any of it but he needed the provinces to sign and they added at.

Yeah, just seems like one hell of a compromise to make.

Anyway, federal politicians are going to need to reassess what is more important to them: cities that are the drivers of the economy or MPs that got elected with 35-40% of the popular vote of a 50-58% turnout, mostly in places outside of the city.

being led by a guy who got the second most votes in his own parties' leadership vote, which was plagued by scandals and possible vote-rigging.

Btw, VHS, this was a fair point; thanks for more context:

Plus Toronto was on the rise on so many levels that the impact of Bill 101 was a shock, instead of banks and insurance companies gradually leaving Montreal forever bound to be the second city at one point. Privatized crown corporations like Air Canada and CN, which are english speaking today, are doing very well with Montreal as their home city.

This might be a controversial opinion but I'm really baffled by how Singh and the federal NDP are handling this Erin Weir situation. This basically seems right to me: the allegations against Weir, as they have been reported, seem frankly trivial (standing too close to people, 'not picking up non-verbal cues', but backing off when asked to). If there are real reasons for expelling him from caucus, it seems like it should be possible for the NDP to release a redacted report that still protects the complainants' identities. A party leader calling his own party members 'privileged' when they defend Weir is just odd.

Catching up on the Quebec election now and ... ugh, why are the CAQ leading again?