Viva hate: the worst Tory big beast

Voting Theresa May as my family have been suffering from her actions at the Home Office for years with no end in sight, and watching her flail around and fail over the last couple of years has been the only positive from the whole mess we're in.

May is probably the most inherently unpleasant.

Gideon for backing up his hate speak (in a high-viz) with impoverishing cuts that even that even the extremely tiny beast IDS baulked at.

Interesting. I'd put Johnson up top for the most "I feel visceral rage when I think about his character", Cameron up top for the perhaps the biggest damage to the country combined with a 'nice guy' exterior, Osborne kind of similar with different focus of damage, Gove up top for "person who has the most immediately objective manner" and he and May both rescued from the bottom in my eyes for just not having the 'politics as a game' trait the other three have, most of all Johnson. Went with Cameron in the end.

objectionable, not objective, sorry

gove is not and never will be a big beast this is canon

I'm voting with my 2015 pre-Brexit head on when Gideon seemed an imperious menace, and future PM elect etc.. May has done much damage as HS and PM, but like Alba said - so hopeless at the game, and "heavyweight" Gove with his Beavers, is a bit of a chuckle!

Gove and May responsible for the most actual fucked-up shit in Education and Home Office respectively tho. i mean sure Cameron but Tories gonna Tory, it's deeply fucking personal with those two.

On the proviso that they're all horrible. Cameron and Osborne have done the most damage, definitely. Gove is loathsome but unimportant, as is Boris really. May is pathetic. I'm voting Osborne.

Johnson is the only one who would allow himself to be openly courted by an actual fascist like Steve Bannon, so him. The fact that he doesn't even believe his own bullshit makes it even worse.

Johnson: a fucking clown basically, transparently an arsehole. A big beast, yes, but unlikely to get anywhere near a position of power now.
Gove: fucked up Education. Also this official picture...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Official_portrait_of_Michael_Gove_crop_2.jpg/220px-Official_portrait_of_Michael_Gove_crop_2.jpg
...more than halfway to being a Spitting Image puppet both in looks and behaviour.
Osborne: uncountable damage done as Chancellor. Looks like a horrible Machiavellian Tory cockbag in every photograph.
Cameron: worse than Osborne because ol' Dave pretends to actually care a la Blair. Nevertheless threw the UK under the bus by causing the EU Referendum just to secure his position as leader of the Tories and PM. Failed and resigned anyway. Possibly the worst example of a politician putting themselves ahead of their party and an entire nation.
May: despite that I voted for May as the worst. Davey may have caused Brexit but Theresa's inability to stop it or at least try and negotiate the least worst possible deal will cause long term damage.

everyone should take this Michael Gove anecdote from yesterday's Times into account before voting:

For instance I was called by Michael Gove in 2011, the day after I wrote a story about him “messianically” calling for military intervention in Libya. Nervously, I answered. Rather than berating me he summoned his best Monty Python voice, declared “I'm not messianic, just a very naughty boy”, cackled and ended the call.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/end-of-days-feel-in-a-westminster-crying-out-for-strong-leadership-7kv3shkmh

good god! Somebody strike him hard in the face, please!

Just been reminded of the greatest letter ever sent to Viz. pic.twitter.com/0VmeGsRfBg

— Eamonn Forde (@Eamonn_Forde) June 4, 2016

lol!

Voted BJ -- the most viscerally revolting of them all.

Oddly, I think I find May the least worst of these, which is saying something.

I suspect May engenders some levels of empathy in some by being a bit odd + socially awkward, transparently out of her depth in her job and being frequently lampooned or publicly humiliated because of these shortcomings, might make some think it is a bit personal. I say melt her in a blast furnace, on my kinder - more sensitive feeling days.

Boris is going to take this easily because those of us USAnians who decide to vote are generally more aware of his godawful schtick than the others

I read that as US Asians at first, which also works.

surely it's Cameron.
the shitfest we are all living through is all down to him.
the never ending chaos is all down to him giving the other scumfuckers positions of power and influence well above their actual capabilities.

In a competition like this one, showing early foot does not count as much as one's present position in the pack. May has the rail. Although Boris has broken to the outside and is running hard, he has not overtaken. The rest are bunched.

And to pulling his party out of the IDS-Howard wilderness and getting them elected in the first place.

xpost

Suspect Gove will finish last.

Boris Johnson's cuddly-demagogue shtick makes him the worst

"I have nothing to say about this matter except to offer you some tea..." @BorisJohnson greets the media armed with a tray of mugs amid burka row pic.twitter.com/5wknsuUBTH

— ITV News (@itvnews) August 12, 2018

I even hate his mugs.

I can’t think of a good thing to say about any of theses, but the answer is Johnson, all the others have a veneer of principles or some level of acknowledgement of other people even if it’s warped or all they really care about is their rich mates. Johnson cares only for himself and will do anything for his own advancement.

Gove did the stupid tea offering thing recently too. Did Jonathan Ross invent this back during 'Manuelgate'?

Johnson for being apparently the most racist and basing seemingly everything he says and does on a desperate desire for attention (in lieu of respect) with no concern of consequences.

I suspect May engenders some levels of empathy in some by being a bit odd + socially awkward, transparently out of her depth in her job and being frequently lampooned or publicly humiliated because of these shortcomings, might make some think it is a bit personal. I say melt her in a blast furnace, on my kinder - more sensitive feeling days.

It's a really interesting thread this - taking, e.g., the almost charming awkwardness and sad-person-ness of May and putting in the context of her Home Office regime, and its utter cruelty

I went for Cameron - as someone else said, he's the one who worked to make the party electable in the first place, then installed all the others in places where they could hurt people, then (and this was inherent to the 'electable' part) decided to go along with the EU referendum condition in his contract with the insane eurosceptics

He's like the keystone in the arch. Cannot imagine them being elected without him being there, standing there like a semi-reasonable manager you speak to for five minutes a week, for the creeps and wackos to hide behind

Who's actually fucked things up the most = Cameron. Who could potentially fuck things up the most if ever given the chance = Johnson.

I agree with this about Cameron. He no longer seems quite the foulest of the set, given the competition, but it's true that causally he has probably done the most damage.

I agree that BJ's mugs are not very good. And is that his 2nd or 3rd home? (Apart from the FCO one he has been taking from the taxpayer?)

There is something strangely sinister and bullying about the way he repeatedly says 'You can have a cup of tea' regardless of what they say to him.

I think that May didn't seem awkward, sad, etc, until she was PM -- in fact, until the day after the 2017 election. Or maybe during the campaign ('nothing has changed') if you prefer. But as Home Secretary, person who talked about 'nasty party' in 2002, she never seemed to have awkwardness or pathos at all. She has come to occupy that persona as she has come under greater personal scrutiny.

The locks on the FCO one have presumably been changed by now.

Or maybe during the campaign

Definitely during the campaign
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/apr/30/andrew-marr-theresa-may-voters-soundbites-robotic

http://cyberneticzoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/131114171215-eric-robot-richards-tea-horizontal-large-gallery-x640.jpg
May wowing party activists at Thornhill Cricket club circa '17, you had to be there .. apparently.

Cameron's just the anti-Blair in this regard, anything popular that might happen, Blair's face was all over it, regardless of whether he'd had anything to do with the policy in the first place. Ministers were often crowded out.

Because Cameron knew that so much of what he was planning would be unpopular, he had a very convenient zeal for restoring proper Cabinet government. Osborne isn't any worse than Cameron because Cameron was behind him every step of the way, it was his programme.

I actually have a tiny sliver more respect for Osborne because he didn't join in the Islamophobic baiting of Sadiq Khan before the Mayoral election, and Cameron did, playing politics with the same forces that would destroy his career like a month or two later.

osborne got the public to buy into his narrative justifying austerity which caused more suffering than anything the rest have done. he knew exactly what he was doing. the others are gargoyles which make better tv but he's the most insidious.

But Osborne dealt in a different type of hate-speak, and for many it was just as vile as the Islamophobic dog whistle. And the massive cuts he had sewn into UC were pretty much his own doing, albeit under the wider remit of Cameron's austerity agenda. I might be wrong, but I think he had some wiggle room there. And what made him more hateful for me was some of the lame arch-Remoaners praise for him, as a brave armchair archer taking hypocritical shots at his own shambolic party's next shambolic phase, from the safety of his LES office.

Oh yeah definitely to all of that, I suppose the point I'm making isa that this was all the Cameron project as much as the Osborne project, they're inseparable when it comes to making the case for austerity because they both did so much of it. Suspect that Cameron was actually more effective because he was so much more palatable to the electorate than Osborne was.

I like how Philip Hammond has been Chancellor of the Exchequer for years and is completely absent from both this poll and this conversation.

he almost seems a decent sort by comparison

as with any tory, until you see his voting record

He's too boring to think about.

the lol geek spreadsheet Phil image the party tries to cultivate, seems quite incongruous with the glimpses of real Hammond when he goes off topic and reveals himself to be an absolute grade a twat (female train drivers etc). He's basically a weak as piss non-entity who'd be long gone by now if May even had a teeny sprinkling of party authority. I'd forgotten that May started her '17 election with a hilariously dull, twin grey press conference with Hammond, and never tried that one again!

I'd forgotten that May started her '17 election with a hilariously dull, twin grey press conference with Hammond, and never tried that one again!

http://78.media.tumblr.com/90c8f20ed30b54fc8e4d4aa5adb76c84/tumblr_mi52chcpCD1s2gg27o1_250.gif

It genuinely shocks me the visceral hatred I have or these "people", and the joy I can imagine myself gleaning from their being pummelled with baseball bats. I shall dance the most fearsome jig for each of them I outlive.

She does better with Arthur Askey next to her.

she already seems to know enough about the rudiments of pantomime.

Oh no she doesn't!

(soz)

Just thinking about the 80s, this conversation wouldn't have had legs back then: pretty much all the hatred was directed at Thatcher. How much this was down to the force of her own character and how much to her being a (gendered?) lightning rod for all anti-Tory antipathy I'm not sure. Who got angry at Douglas Hurd and Geoffrey Howe?? I can't really think of anyone else who was a hate figure except Tebbit. Maybe there was some niche antipathy towards Keith Joseph.

there was Heseltine and the small matter of the destruction of the mining industry, though admittedly Thatcher was instrumental in that too

Lawson? Brittan? Heseltine maybe?

Thatcher’s model was presidential. She was keen to make it clear the cabinet was subservient to her. Any praise or hatred directed towards anyone else would be wasted.

Tebbit, to some extent. Maybe Lawson, not convinced though. With Thatcher around there wasn't much hate left over.

(xp) Yes, that's it. Presidential or dictatorial (image if not reality), take your pick.

It's a mistake to not include JRM, who, right now, wields more power and could do a lot more damage, even without a ministerial post, than Gove, for example.

Also, where's Jeremy Hunt?

there were deep-cut outliers for nerds:
https://theneedleblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/sir-keith-joseph-and-rhodes-boyson.jpg

words have meaning, jeremy hunt is not a big beast

I hated them all and I still do.

Cecil Parkinson, Francis Pym, St. John Stevas, Jim Prior, Kenneth Baker, Norman Fowler. Avuncular old Willie Whitelaw. All of them. I suppose I'm at an age where this lot seemed like actual monsters, where (eg) Major's 1992 cabinet seemed vile and venal.

If Gove is then Hunt is.

I believe Thatch was a lightning rod for all those (good list, tim) that wanted to impose their will and could convince herself that it was all her idea. They weren't bothered about taking the credit for a successful implementation, just so long as it actually happened. (and with things like the Poll tax, they could point to the 'fall guy' and say it wasn't me it was her..

Whereas Brexit has so many wearing the "It was me wot wun it" badges..

gove is not and never will be a big beast this is canon

― mark s, Sunday, August 12, 2018 12:49 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Being the son of a teacher; Kenneth Baker is high up is the beastiary. Some of my earliest (possibly misremembered) memories are being taken on baker day marches.

*galaxy brain* Rather do one for the Labour Party - need to direct my hate at the people that will try and sabotage the road to socialism.

I haven't thought about Councillor Rhodes Boyson (Lab) in a long time. What a weird character.

Do it! But bear in mind there are very, very few 'big beasts' in Labour right now

there was only ever one:
https://conradbrunstrom.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/healey.jpg

what about The Beast of Bolsover?

I don't think doing a Labour one is going to be very interesting really, just another opportunity to give people the opportunity to say the same things they always say. At least when you're polling the Tories you're polling people who have actually done things.

I mean unless you're polling Blair, Prescott, Brown etc and no one needs to go over that again.

Just imagine the vitriol we could pour on Yvette Cooper though

Yeah I wouldn't do it. We have covered much of that and there'll be lots of opportunity. xp

One if those polls where whoever wins will be the right answer.

Dithering between Bojo, Cameron and Gideon however special mention for May who makes me embarrassed to be a Brit with the Trump hand holding, Grenfell evasiveness and kowtowing to the Royals in the most servile manner possible. That’s before we even get to her dismal handling of the Brexit negotiations.

♬ all small beasts should have bows in their tails ♬

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/b1/0b/10/b10b105e6651bf8cedc96747a0d9baae--moomin-books-moomin-valley.jpg

Wondrous discovery of the day is that the no-doubt bestselling book 'British Politics For Dummies' actually has a section on Big Beasts!

how did you find this out?

Here you go

So it turns out no one is a big beast.

Gove would also fail the BPfD big beasts test so we should consider the matter settled.

as a tru 80s kid i definitely had plenty of hate left in reserve for individual cabinet members

tho tbf i wd've probably used the phrase "Dickensian grotesques" rather than monsters

That would surely have been more accurate but to me at the time they seemed more terrifying and unbeatable than that - particularly in the context of nukes obv.

what is the etymology of 'big beasts' used in this particular context? most of the earliest references I can find are to Michael Heseltine and are riffing on the 'tarzan' nickname, but does it go further back?

I don't know but when I first became aware of the phrase (ISTR in relation to Heseltine but that's not a reliable memory) it always seemed to be prefixed with the word "lumbering".

Rhodes-Boyson and Tebbit always reminded me of baddies out of Oliver Twist, these fuckers had their own phenotype

as a tru 80s kid i (...) wd've probably used the phrase "Dickensian grotesques" rather than monsters

https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nevermind_nathan_fillion.gif

precocious 15 year-old literature boy? absolutely

'the political jungle' is obv a metaphor that goes a long way back, but I feel like 'big beasts' is a more recent thing

the UK political jungle circa 1985:

https://i.imgur.com/RyApXH2.png

also wrote lists of bad puns of their names on the cover of my school rough book

i remember looking this up the first time this discussion was had (discussion = "gove is NOT a big beast how can we nail this down", this = when "big beast" first used in this sense)

sadly i can't remember what i googled or what the conclusion was, and am having no luck now

i'm p sure it was used in the 80s tho

Partridge's dictionary of slang has the phrase first noted in the year 2000 but that seems to recent to me also.

too recent obviously

ok lol i found a mid-60s political usage which involves healey but actually refers to a fighter airplane

woot a.j.p.taylor called lloyd george the "big beast of the forest" in English History 1914-1945 pub.1964

the forest?!

tho i think he's quoting someone from lloyd george's own day

Wilson's cabinet in the 60s was stuffed full of big beasts - I think that put subsequent PMs off the idea for a while.

J. C. C. Davidson, former Parliamentary Secretary to
Bonar Law until his retirement and serving Stanley
Baldwin, President of the Board of Trade, in the same
capacity, wrote to me:

10, Barton Street,
Westminster, s.w.i
My dear Max (e.g. Beaverbrook),

It is no news to you I suspect that Harold R. (Rothermere) spent an hour with the Big Beast (1) at the House on Monday. The enclosed (2) appeared on Tuesday in the Mirror. Funny isn't it?

Yours,

David
23/6/21

1: Lloyd George not a term of derision meaning Big Beast of the Forest.
2: Cutting from Daily Mirror

from: THE DECLINE AND FALL OF LLOYD GEORGE

I recently read the Margaret MacMillan book on Paris 1919 and it is full of exquisite character sketches of neocolonialist great power baddies, and the biggest wanker of them all was Lloyd George imo. Not just because he seemed like an overrated big beast and keeps dropping the "n" bomb. Even though he was from a lowly middle class background he seems to have oodles of that insuppressible self belief in his own brilliance, which was something based on some people calling him a wizard!

something something quidditch something something hufflepuff

There's a continuum of zealotry at play here. I'd place Gove at one end, in that his zealotry appears genuine (though bankrupt), with Osborne not too far from him (zealotry being easier when you suffer no consequences), a gap before Cameron, then a big gap and then May, followed by Johnson. Johnson is obv not a zealot for anything other than his own progress and its transparency is (a) revolting and (b) is weakness. May's lack of zealotry (strong and stable) got her to where she is, but the lack of zealotry gave her (moral?) flexibility to try to make war on human rights simply because HRs made her job as Home Sec harder: she is capable of deliberately making the lives of others harder just to make her own life easier.

Apt from todays Graun

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/43c96c1008cfe3b8facd8a487f1dbff2c1eaefb8/29_76_4793_2877/master/4793.jpg

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/43c96c1008cfe3b8facd8a487f1dbff2c1eaefb8/29_76_4793_2877/master/4793.jpg?w=940&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=de89ef567575117d33992e556960b6e3

Rowson's nod to Raymond Biggs still belongs on the UK political cartoons that are bad thread!

So bad

Can confirm this is true from my time working as a producer for BBC London - he’d always ruffle it right before the camera started rolling. All part of his carefully calculated “loveable rogue” persona which things like that viral tea video let him play up to so well. https://t.co/Xo7ch8IqBu

— Jane Bradley (@jane__bradley) August 13, 2018

i feel if you listed his faults in order of badness from vile evil to hmph this would come right at the "very least evil" end, plus the only reason it's bad at all is bcz that hair is attached to his head

I once watched Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon in the same Screen on the Green screening as him. I'd like to report that he was making racist jokes throughout but I was sitting too far away to hear.

Whose wife was he with?

the crew of 'the last leg' said exactly the same thing on last Fridays show re boris and his hair before he went on.

That’s been super-well known for years and is partially why I want to crowdfund for a traitor in his inner circle to refill his shampoo bottle with something like Immac.

Floored by @SamuelMoen’s “Theresa May curtsying” series on Instagram pic.twitter.com/aQkWcxhHwl

— Carey O'Donnell (@ecareyo) August 15, 2018

Crucial new ruling: https://news.sky.com/story/amp/labour-mp-and-loyd-grossman-to-speak-at-festival-dubbed-the-tory-glastonbury-11473915

although in the 2nd paragraph Gove is relegated from "Big Beast" to "prominent parliamentarians" status. Someone once got botulism from one of those fucking pointless Lloyd Grossman sauces... just saying like.

They will join a host of Conservative big beasts such as Michael Gove and fresher faces including Jonny Mercer in a bid to attract more young people into politics.

The one-day event on 8 September will be held across eight tents, but with seemingly no music.

um

imagine ozyfest but for even bigger arseholes

this is a book i need* to read:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51tzDR%2BnR6L._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

*for professional** reasons
**my profession is being insane

if read, pls liveblog here on ilxor dot com

I am interested in Loyd Grossman's career. His Wikipedia page doesn't give me the full picture I seek.

He reviewed Dark Side of the Moon for Rolling Stone!

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-album-reviews/dark-side-of-the-moon-255381/

Jet Bronx.

His single was one of the first 'punk' singles to come out in red vinyl. As soon as stocks of the red had gone and only black vinyl was left, it stopped selling.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Peanut Butter Conspiracy were his favourite band of all time... or else he was in the Ultimate Spinach... something like that anyway.

xp LG reformed Jet Bronx & The Forbidden and played Rebellion festival a few years ago

nothing says 'rebellion' like a sixtysomething gourmand rockin' out

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

he could be the worst human, tbh.

I think that's almost certain.

Love him or hate him, you can't not vote for him!

if humanity could learn to ignore a tiresome exhibitionist, the Boris project would have to rely more on his privilege to maintain momentum. So it wouldn't make any difference.

was looking back on Youtube at that moment when for a second it looked like Ian Lavery was going to twat Boris. There is a decent level of pwnage, but it isn't quite as good as I remembered it!

proven by science: m gove not a big beast

One vote shows the scientific community is still divided.

I could imagine Gove taking the light entertainment from hell route that Ed Balls has taken, when he is a political non-entity, very soon!

gove still a big bast tho

his truly massive twat status has never been in question!

Kind of astonishing that I would sometimes watch Late Review featuring Mark Lawson, Allison Pearson and Michael Gove AND ENJOY IT.

I mean, he wasn't my preferred guest or anything, but STILL.

(Obv. I preferred it when Tony Parsons was on)

I could never stand Allison Pearson tbh, seems I was right not to like her.

people shd take a good look at the national curriculum and realise it won't get better any time soon

Gove vs Parsons is a tough taking sides that i wd vote for Gove in without hesitation

Show needed Tom Paulin doing his pained furrowed brow Ulster contrarian routine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vhYIZTtIhU

i did v much enjoy Paulin pretending to be baffled by popular culture

naming some tweecore band after him probably a shade unfair to the lad

alba proven the gove voter as proven by science*

*the science of liking allison pearson

Don't blame me, I voted Cameron!

tweecore bandmember once a prominent ilxor: i will not shame her as she is an irl friend

good late reviewers: bonnie greer maybe
i can't decide: tom paulin, paul morley
bad: everyone else
worst: john harris

hard to think of any situation where those last three words won't hold true

Time for another poll?

crucial new ruling

"conservative big beasts"
About 209 results (0.31 seconds)
"tory big beasts"
About 6,270 results (0.36 seconds)

"labour big beasts"
About 12,700 results (0.51 seconds)

John Harris is fine. He's got a good heart.

He was really mean to his brother when I saw them running a quiz together once.

I hate him.

John Harris is fine. He's got a good heart.

Unlike the poor old Tin Man.

http://thewizardofozblog.typepad.com/.a/6a014e8b29c8c3970d01a3fcf5cefb970b-600wi

JH wrote a really shit, and myopically smug and London-centric opinion piece on autism that made me want to throttle the cunt, earlier this year!

he writes a lot of really shit, myopically smug, London-centric opinion pieces, i don't see why he'd be any better on neurodiversity

he's fine.

(when he's slipped on a dog shit and broke both of his ankles) he's fine with me as well!

would anyone care to change their vote

she's next-levelled this

Proud member of the OG8 here, not changing now of course.
I have zero respect for Boris, but not sure how he could possibly have done a worse job. Not sure how any living organism on the planet could have done a worse job.

Then again, if MPs shit themselves into passing her deal at the 11th hour, she'll be the new Robert the Bruce spider for centuries to come

NB I don't think this is very likely