one out all out: a brexit from the modern world and every one of its problems please (we're all gonna die lol)

this is the new brexit thread: i'm sullying abba's name with such sordid nonsense

i always make a stupid mistake when starting a new thread, this one is no exception

good luck industrial north

Moment of truth for #brexit talks will be October #EUCO. We expect maximum progress and results by then. https://t.co/MTtoEYpVTB pic.twitter.com/GwXBg2HARA

— Donald Tusk (@eucopresident) September 20, 2018

THEY'RE READY

the phrase is 'lol we're all gonna die' ffs

i refer the hon member to the second post in this thread

ffs

good luck industrial north

― imago, Thursday, 4 October 2018 09:53 (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yours or ours

The figures quoted by education ministers defending their record on state school spending also included the money spent by parents on private school fees.

This has been confirmed by the OECD think tank that compiles the international comparisons of spending figures.

Head teachers' leaders say the Department for Education is "disrespecting" schools and teachers by this "extraordinary" use of statistics.

They also added university tuition fees to the quoted figure, just to round it up a bit!

fucking shameless

I'm not saying resorting to outright lying and brandishing fake stats is a new thing, but this lot have been pushing the envelope on this game in recent years.

in the era of Russian Trumpbots who can say what's lying and fake any more?

maybe China's heavily censored version of the internet is the way forward! to quote Deng: "If you open a window for fresh air for longer than 10 hours, you have to expect some flies to blow in."

president xi, put up that firewall

RIP Unilad, what a blow to the culture

oh nevermind apparently LadBible is still ok

I wasn't surprised to hear that this (the last 4 years) was basically UNILAD 2.0 - afaik it never got anywhere near the horrific stuff from pre-2012, but still why pick that as a brand to save?

still kinda stunned that unilad has hundreds of staff and a New York office

it’s a facebook page for arseholes ffs

Lol unilad's London office is/was the floor above mine. Sometimes hear loud braying laughter after 6, assume they have after work drinks or something

Hmm they might've moved already actually, their website has their address round the corner. Our building is a total shithole tbf

it’s a facebook page for arseholes ffs

do they need a parti-time sub-editor?

the typo makes the joke funnier

Apparently Unilad are the fourth biggest publisher on Facebook, which further underlines how completely fucked the online ad revenue model is.

The fact that they have hundreds of staff and a New York office is admittedly a significant part of the reason.

Yeah. With that scale they can literally A/B test every post on hundreds of sub-pages/"communities" they own, see what works best, and promote the top performing posts to the main page. It's a science and they're not stupid about it. They take their douche-bro'ing v seriously.

I'm not trying to brag here, but I'd never even heard of them before!

^^^ ^^^
I'm not on FB and don't even have a TV type brag post.

I've seen the name but had no idea what it was referring to... and still don't tbh.

we are lol gonna die*

Please watch this assessment of Brexit from the US embassy in London:

Key themes:
- economic catastrophe
- massive job losses
- duplicity from the UK government
- everyone is terrified about what is about to happen pic.twitter.com/VcYxmegOkj

— James Melville (@JamesMelville) October 4, 2018

*to the tune of moby's we are all made of stars

(just read that that's actually from that ch4 Inside the American Embassy doc series from several months ago)

Yeah they're terrified they'll have to go back to Trump's America.

lovely bit of publicity for the Football Lads Alliance on R4 earlier, these nice fellows handing out food parcels to the homeless in Birmingham and they aren't fascists cos they democratic etc.. Even far right beyond the pale ex-Tories like Bill Etheridge are balking at their UKIP leader aligning the party with this type of pondlife and jumping ship.

“James Cleverly insisted Shaun Bailey had been misunderstood, and that he was trying to say that because black boys were learning more about faiths other than “their own Christian culture”, they were more likely to drift into crime.” 🤔 https://t.co/EHtLk5Hixh

— Musa Okwonga (@Okwonga) October 5, 2018

😬

Isn’t this even worse than the original comment?!

James not-Cleverly is consistent, I'll give him that. But even by his standards that be double wrongness there!

we're all going to die lol for a myth:

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n19/james-meek/brexit-and-myths-of-englishness

Wouldn't exactly be the first time…

nationalism is all myth

countries infected with Eddie the Eagle brainworms

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45727317

Literally gonna die.

Behind the bravado, We are just a shy and self-aphasiaing nation.

we were just looking to see if my wife is effectively confined to the UK for the rest of her life because we won't have EHIC anymore but the best I could find was articles from a few months ago saying there's a transition period up to Dec 2020 on that, so we've still got a while to visit anywhere in the EU she wants to go to. there are some insurers that will insure terminal patients but I would expect they are prohibitively expensive (tbf I haven't got a quote I'm just guessing)

Noel Gallagher would reform Oasis to stop ‘lunatic’ Jeremy Corbyn from being Prime Minister https://t.co/UJkjJUiVZw pic.twitter.com/uFOibDO3RR

— NME (@NME) October 5, 2018

just start a band with tony blair already

"The Tories don’t care about the vulnerable, and the communists don’t care about the aspirational.”

This from the guy who admits he spent seven years on the dole playing the guitar rather than get 'a proper job'.

isn't this how the 30 years' war started?

So, a UNILAD founder, Alex Partridge, had his debt bought up by Lad Bible to force UNILAD into administration. UNILAD staff are currently locked out of crucial systems, and are claiming the whole thing is a hostile Lad Bible takeover - to mothball the site https://t.co/NoKV2iBGJM

— Luke Bailey (@imbadatlife) October 5, 2018

Hadn't thought of the positives to the universal credit reforms until today.

that is such bants

Gallagher threatening to reform Oasis is an incentive for people to vote Corbs, kudos

now if Tony Robinson could threaten to leave the country everything would be perfect

Threaten to reform the Time Team, er, team.

The rabid anti-semite Taki has also threatened to leave if Corbyn is PM, would prefer it if some kind of legally binding deportation document could be drafted, rather than just idle talk.

Talking of top bants.

.@PenguinUKBooks @scarcurtis @GirlUp pic.twitter.com/jnWx1BLM4k

— Topshop (@Topshop) October 5, 2018

what

Phil Green personally yanked the display because he’s mad at Penguin for publishing an unflattering biography of him. The schmuck.

As I may have mentioned before one of his bodyguards once stood on my toe so I'm not surprised.

They kept it up for 20 minutes, I mean, how long do you ladies need to dismantle patriarchy for heaven's sake?

I haven’t bought anything from one of his shops since UKUncut called him out as a tax cheat.

Gorblimey, Charlie, ain't you the bleedin' Remoaner and no mistake, Gordon Bennett!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/05/millionaire-refuses-take-down-bollocks-brexit-poster

In numbers
83%
of Tories see Theresa May as a decent person against 48% for Boris Johnson; it is 47% and 30% among voters of all parties, including Tories.

81%
of Tories say May has nation’s best interests at heart; 52% say Johnson. It is 43% and 30% among all voters.

63%
of Tories see May as a strong leader against 39% for Johnson. Among all voters it is 32% and 27%

poll by Opinium taken after the conference shows Boris polling badly within the party and with the electorate. Game over probably. Just got the new Graun approved, faux-Centrist Marm version of TM to hate now and she's shown a few times now she can pass Richard Pryor's concept of the ultimate test: "the ultimate test is whether or not you can survive death. That's the ultimate test for your ass".

I mean, Bob Geldof, Ed Sheeran and Rita Ora saying Brexit will hurt their careers might make even the most ardent Remainers pause for thought https://t.co/WNMnE4OJBu

— Josh Spero (@joshspero) October 7, 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls-p0xbGUJQ

Fucking Geldof, him and Eddie Izzard are responsible for Brexit imo.

Geldof knows very well that boosting your flagging career with a famine only works with African famines.

Lol my mum got Geldof's book Is That It? From some mail order book club in the 80's in a more innocent time before terms like "hate-reading" were commonly used.

the only good thing abt the boomtown rats is the bitter legal war waged on geldof by johnny fingers over who invented pyjamas

Geldof has a career?

Him and Izzard made Project Nausea a more powerful brexit incentive than a zillion Putin-bots.

Imagine Britain without its music. If it’s hard for us, then it’s impossible for the rest of the world. In this one area, if nowhere else, Britain does still rule the waves. The airwaves. The cyberwaves. The soundwaves. It is of us. It is our culture.

imagine sending that to the Maybot.

imagine thinking that

With Dickhead Dugher in charge of UK Music, having sworn to discover the new Beatles, all is lost, with or without Noel Gallagher's tax returns.

good luck rest of the world, if you can envisage a future without britpop, landfill, reduced attack, Ed Sheeran, fucking Geldof etc...

with or without the swagger of noel gallagher's tax returns

Purcell and Byrd were pretty dece tbf

No Ferneyhough, no credibility.

It's all about Richard Barrett, really.

john mcdonnell DESTROYS uk establishment with FACTS and LOGIC

John McDonnell responds to accusation made by Former MI6 boss:
"I think he should spend his retirement in quiet contemplation of the role he played with regard to the Iraq War - where over half a million people were killed!"#Ridge #Marr @johnmcdonnellMP pic.twitter.com/Ff5Dww5DLb

— C0RBYNAT0R (@Corbynator2) October 7, 2018

I really love McDonnell, seriously!

yes that’s a+

It's a— as the real figure is way over a million, still good to see someone saying it

tbf he was live-talking + jostling with an evil agent of the establishment on Murdoch tv, not a job for some Canary type wanker - play it safe if you aren't sure about figures!

yeah, i don't think his argument lost anything from going with a conservative half million +

oh ffs

Definitely May-be. pic.twitter.com/zxI4Jccjux

— ARGH KiD (@arghkid) October 7, 2018

LOOOOOOL was just hovering over c+p to post that!

Give that person 10K (more followers) plz!

yeah, i don't think his argument lost anything from going with a conservative half million +

― Leon Carrotsky (Noodle Vague), Sunday, October 7, 2018 7:48 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It didn't. However I think it's important that the apparently 99% of the population who don't know the scale of casualties in our most recent war be brought up to date with exactly how high they were, and still waiting for a politician to make a good attempt at this.

i think it quite likely that a large chunk of uk voters dont know how high they are but its hardly 99%

“If there is going to be revolution, it would be better to make it than to suffer it.” – Bismarck 1866 pic.twitter.com/qfJFRJOmPX

— Adam Tooze (@adam_tooze) October 7, 2018

Cameron and Osborne (l-r) after an m-cat sesh in 2015.

i'm confused, why isn't Jeremy Hunt threatening the Saudi government with hard man talk yet?

also May said that maintaining relations with them is the best way of (making a fucking mint selling weapons of death to them) being able to challenge them on human rights issues. Still not heard her condemnation of their cold blooded murder yet.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Do_IgSeXUAEOS_m.jpg

one of the BBC's finest - N.Watt, Newsnight political editor, serious member of the political commentariat.

taken from yet another "We need a UK Macron piece".

Cleverly and Braintree DO U SEE?

he was obv always destined to be one of the brightest and best!

a real Prodigy (also from Braintree)

the braintree of brainliberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of brainpatriots and braintyrants

In August 2010, Cleverly posted a tweet in which he called Liberal Democrat deputy leader Simon Hughes "a dick".

Beeb hack OTM

Unmentioned is that Cleverly initially called Hughes "some dicks" before realising he was but a singular entity and eventually corrected himself.

He thought it was a group of men all named Simon Hugh sharing a prominent position in the Lib Dems?

It's not like there's a magic brain tree out there that we can shake and dole out intelligence to all and sundry.

I think my fave Cleverly moment was him claiming his party had "disproportionately suffered" from the impact of The Troubles - absolute classic, even Liz Truss blazing away on the crackpipe whilst on twitter couldn't top that.

I'm almost certain that Liz Truss will be the Tory leader eventually.

Can she dance?

can someone please post the cheeses video again or whatever the fuck it was

got it:

https://youtu.be/n_wkO4hk07o

lol that's gold + even better than her "freedom fighters" tweet.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/07/michael-gove-let-homeowners-scavenge-waste-council-dumps/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1538930082

I think Gove has been borrowing some of her drugs, after his ingenious plan to contract out some regional flood defences to a couple of beavers, now he has a vision of middle class homeowners scavenging knackered old electrical goods from rubbish dumps!

Sure this is just gove getting real about the ability to import such things post Brexit.

Prig of the dump.

There is an electrical device fix-it whizz across the road from me known as Pete the Geek, who leaves the odd tv or whatever is truly knackered + ready for the electronic graveyard outside the front of his house for the scrappers. Any still functional stuff he will sell on e-bay - I didn't think ppl threw stuff away that still actually works these days, but maybe soon we all become scrappers!

Our local fixit shop is called Total Recoil, which makes me smile when I walk past.

‘If people are willing to pay hundreds and hundreds of pounds for football season tickets, then seeking to have a fair price for a work of great curatorial brilliance and collections, doesn’t seem to be wrong.’

stout defender of free museums Tristam Hunt definitely talks like someone who would prefer less of the type of people also priced out of football getting any access to them.

Been getting targeted ads for the tories in my FB feed. Seems they have finally woken up to "we need some voters under 50", though not enough to actually change any of their policy.

hey, they're claiming the centre ground, it said so in the Graun

lately R4 has been running lots of features on the inequities of UC/PIP etc.. I'd like to think they are finding it harder to prop up these horrible things because attitudes are changing. But a grumpy encounter with this ignorant twat of a bus driver earlier has me feeling that 90% of bus drivers are vermin and hate disabled people and are very much fairly representative of the UK electorate rn. I think the Tories will be quite happy to carry on as per, just with a bit of One Nation all-in-this-together Cameron 2015 type lip service to how moderate they are next to Corbyn's "extremism".

i went to the v&a on friday. the ticket price was 18 quid or 20 quid if i wanted to support the museum. which suggests the 18 pounds isn't supporting the museum, or not enough anyway. so why not make it 20 quid and stop faffing with the optional bit?

the people on the counter can't like asking people and people don't like refusing, doesn't seem worth it.

18 quid is about 2 hours wages for a lot of people, and it only took me an hour to walk around it.

Tristam only wants the V+A to connect with ppl that shop at John Lewis and are Chelsea season ticket holders!

Well, museums like the V&A and Tates are free (I don’t know anyone except for tourists who pay the ‘suggested donation’) but headline shows like the Turner Prize, the Bowie retrospective or Frida Kahlo start at £15, which is expensive enough.

last time I went to the Tate Modern was for an amazing Bruce Nauman exhibition. Loved the building so much as well. The only thing I didn't love was my kid accidentally bumping into a sourfaced Dave Stewart and not knocking the tosser over!

Unexpected racial bonuses in British politics: Shaun Bailey's astonishingly unaged skin is going to help him in that he keeps saying "I made these remarks when I was young", when he was in fact in his mid to late thirties at the time.

— Stephen Bush (@stephenkb) October 9, 2018

lol!

I laughed at the following reply to Stephen Bush's other post about the unaging Shaun Bailey yesterday:
(let's see if I can embed a tweet)

He has a manifesto in his attic with increasingly grown-up policies written down on it.

— PIP (@PoliticsIsPoop) October 8, 2018

lol! Maybe this time the Tory candidate will campaign on: I'm a bigot and a moron and what you see is what you get, but check this flawless skin out folks!

didn't help him when he stood in hammersmith in 2010 (i knew the name sounded familiar)

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/chris-williamson-deselection_uk_5bbbcc57e4b0876edaa0f39f

lol, Chris Williamson facing a trigger ballot - loathsome character and would love to see him deselected, even if it does make Luke Akehurst glow with happiness.

OTM x1000

He should already be gone for appearing on RT, if that isn't bringing the party into disrepute I don't wtf does then.

If you're gonna throw one to the sharks to counter the Stalinist takeover narrative it might as well be the idiot Stalinist.

On the other hand, union reactionaries, y'know?

Given his super-marginal constituency and his enthusiastic contribution towards toxifying the Labour Party this guy needs to go immediately. It doesn't matter which side of the party he's on, keeping him around does no one any favours at all.

Maybe that should be retoxifying.

his regular paying homage to Galloway/Livingstone on social media, his consistently inflammatory remarks during the height of Labour Antisemitism, he might as well be playing for the other side.

I was sat in the seat directly behind Chris Williamson on the train from Derby to London for 90 minutes yesterday morning and I did nothing.

Among the remarks unearthed by BuzzFeed News are claims that “good looking” girls in the area “tend to have been around” and that “poor people” require “rules” and “direction” or else they will turn to crime.

this Bailey chap was only 14 34 when he made these comments!

post LADS itt

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tommy-robinson-poses-photo-surrounded-13391539

Tommy Robinson poses for photo surrounded by smiling British soldiers chanting ex-EDL leader's name

The English Defence League founder shared a picture of himself posing with a group of grinning young men in camouflage uniform and an Army investigation has been launched

"UK appoints its first minister for suicide prevention"

This is like when they give aid to Yemen, after selling the weapons used to annihilate them to the Saudis.

(we're all gonna die lol)

So is this minister just gonna spend all day talking people down?

Is the idea to get rid of various factors that might prevent vulnerable ppl from committing suicide

I have some suggestions if so.

quoting some inspirational Jo Cox quotes at them should do the trick.

locally they put these platitudinous "more in common" type slogans on signs, bus stops, bloody everything, near some of the poorest, crime ridden estates of Batley and Staincliffe. If you wanted to expose the absolute wrongness of that type of centrist drivel-speak, you couldn't put them up in better locations than where they are.

I'd deffo love to replace it all with "(lol, we're all gonna die)"

There is story in the local rag about a Batley drug dealer who kidnapped someone and scalded his balls with boiling water, while making sing a Whitney Houston song. "more in common" doesn't quite cover that in the way lol, we're all gonna die does!

^ Real England

I was going to post it there, but thought it might be too graphic and trigerry!

just for some added Worcester sauce one of the fellow torturers (who got 15 years) is an "ex-professional footballer".

ex-Blackburn striker Andre Jermaine Clarke, 30.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Clarke_(footballer,_born_1988)

Doesn't the veracity of the slogan depend to an extent on what the Whitney Houston song was? I mean that Bodyguard soundtrack was a pretty huge seller.

The Greatest Love of Balls

It's not right...

I wanna feel the HEAT with somebody

lol

Ow, well I know..

scalding drug dealer bollocks: it's not right but it's okay

exciting!

Totally agree Laura, it baffles me that the corbynista's think May saying "Austerity is over" could be interpreted as meaning "there will be no austerity measures in the next budget". A review next year to ascertain the possibility of easing off on cuts is really exciting.

— (((Han Dodges))) (@HPJDodges) October 10, 2018

and sorry I know I shouldn't give the twerp publicity

It's a spoof account isn't it?

hah too subtle for me obviously!

Dan Hodges is almost beyond parody but Simon Hedges manages it, somehow. He’s a combination of several centrist treasures but the weirdly tragic Hodges is a key ingredient.

I've been banned from the Labour Party conference and have been forced to attend the Conservative Party conference instead. Just for having an opinion.

— Simon Hedges (@Orwell_Fan) October 2, 2018

The Momentum Militants that have taken over the Labour Party should feel nothing but shame that they've forced me to attend every Tory Party conference of the last 10 years.

— Simon Hedges (@Orwell_Fan) October 1, 2018

pic.twitter.com/GH9uy3lo70

— Simon Hedges (@Orwell_Fan) September 25, 2018

lol class

did enjoy the exchange that lead to owen smith blocking him

xps

well do I feel foolish haven taken absolutely verbatim what some duplicitous tory politico said in a conference speech. What a harsh lesson!

xp I thought I was well up on hedges lore but I don’t think o know this? I remember the Hugo Rifkind one which was funny.

Also this was great:

Hi Simon. It seems a long time now since you were teaching me to be a journalist, great days! If you could just copy and paste this message that would be great: "Really enjoying reading Lost Connections by Johann Hari, highly recommended!" Cheers mate.

— Simon Hedges (@Orwell_Fan) January 27, 2018

I have been asked to make the following statement. Ian Smith MP is not afraid of the golden taste of Hobgoblin. He buys "a wide range of beers and ciders from the supermarket, yes sometimes even own brand lager, there's nothing wrong with that." pic.twitter.com/KS7j94NiYL

— Simon Hedges (@Orwell_Fan) May 11, 2018

at the risk of repeating myself: the list of ppl he follows is beautifully curated. whenever I see an atrocious tweet by an unfamiliar name and I hover over it to see "followed by simon hedges" I smile. he's providing a valuable service

It must be mortifying for some of his targets to see themselves being done like this, if they actually have a modicum of self awareness that is.

This is appalling and shows how much we all need to do just to survive.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/corbynism-work-government-borough-haringey

Rather than taking up the traders’ case, Ejiofor and Adje have fobbed them off. Instead of Haringey cracking down on the market manager, last month it sent an enforcement officer to hassle traders. A pregnant woman running a nail bar was found without a licence, and told to close the shop. In a complaint that I have seen, she said she had felt “embarrassed and humiliated” in front of customers and neighbours. Days later, she miscarried.

Article seems to illustrate not so much an ideological problem for the left as the fact that a lot of politicians at all levels are bent.

Power is concentrated on too few a hands, and they aren't made accountable either.

Yeah, the issue is how to make these people more accountable, more quickly. It's unglamorous stuff, I guess, but goes back all the way to what I most wanted from Corbyn when he won the leadership - reform the party structures, get the levers of power into the hands of the people.

Obv ultimately it's not just the structures of the Labour party that need to change, but one step at a time.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/nationalising-britain-water-industry-environment?CMP=share_btn_fb

another member with interesting priorities

Well-documented ties to the water industry as well.

i was going thru the Register of Members' Interests on that assumption and could find anything but it's fucking transparent, excuse the pun.

the only fucking liquidity she's concerned about certainly isn't water quality related.

Boris now claiming that a Britain with close ties to the EU would be a "colony". But I thought colonialism was meant to be a good thing?

only if you're the colonists, come on

The British are not an inferior race.

I read a good letter by an engineer the other day that was trashing his bridge to the North Ireland colony idea. The Irish Sea is a 1000 feet deep at points and still full of dangerous ww2 munitions so it would be a hugely expensive and nigh on impossible project. Not that you ever take anything that cunt says seriously.

I'm thinking Scotland does not need something that makes it easier for lunatics from Ulster to get to Ibrox Park or sundry Orange Walks.

aye, marching season would be a mare!

Marching across Boris' bridge.

don't be so hasty, you're talking about something that raises the possibility of Orangemen being swept into the North Atlantic en masse

battle of the buoyant

lol

"political considerations"

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/james-cusick-adam-ramsay/met-police-stall-brexit-campaign-investigations-claiming-polit

The problem with attributing even bad ideas to Johnson is that this too is a bridge too far generous.

it took me a while to realise that the Tommy Robinson song has the same tune as Spot The Looney (Tom D and bizarro may be the only people who know what i'm talking about)

No, English football fans sang that song too - it being a perfect distillation of 70s culture, marrying the tune of Chicory Tip's "Son of My Father" to a Monty Python sketch.

ahhhh!

the Son of the Father connection had escaped me until now!

I can't believe I'm seeing a front page on The Times reporting on charities getting gagged from criticising our most charming DWP minister on UC. That's normally a disabled/benefits twitter staple. S Bush otm on how much worse UC is than Poll Tax on it's victims, and how weaker the Tory party is in this clusterfuck that looks like finally threatening to become a "national scandal". Perhaps this is an extension of "anyone but Corbyn" and it's way too fucking late for lots of people.

but didn't the poll tax affected people (superficially) more indiscriminately than this UC scandal still attacks specific groups that can be more effectively othered as leechers or drains on society?

son of my father factoid: written by giorgio moroder

thom yorke in we're not prog suspiria, red cherry goblinz

UC is trying to other about 8m ppl including the entire working poor population, a very ambitious project but it was always doomed to failure in our fucking so cushy multi-island garrison of happy supply and demand democracy!

i can't even remember the specifics of Poll Tox tbh. Was poor as fuck at the time, didn't pay it, ignored the court summons, nothing happened. it might have been the drugs that saved me.

xp own post

Confidence and supply - I meant!

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/green-party-urges-activists-try-15268053

Green Party targets BNP and UKIP voters.

well they're not targeting them by adopting racist or nationalist policies afaict

That's true but there's no way it can end well.

pragmatism is never caring why people vote for you

The tactic appears to be "let them go to the polling station and hope they cross our box at random instead of anyone else's".

is that bad? i think it's ethically bad, but our electoral system's connection to ethics is pretty weak

not caring why people vote for you seems to have done well for most governments in living memory

'Enemy of my enemy' is a very suspect political strategy imo.

it's for fuckwits, it's also the standard MO for e.g. the Lib Dems

I mean it's better than having people vote for a racist party I suppose so it's a net positive. I doubt it had any serious impact on anything at all, even compared to, say, putting 'Controls On Immigration' on a mug and sending them out to all your jaunty supporters.

Surprised to say the least that there was no UKIP candidate given the location.

this is another example of why politics is terrible, whatever the lines of communication and sympathy might be between the Greens and the Labour party as national movements, when it gets down to the trenches almost every wannabe local/national politician is in full kill or be killed mode

This is as dumb as it gets.

tbh i don't care for any party that doesn't tell it's candidates "if you meet a BNP supporter on the doorstep, tell them to kill themselves"

TBH it feels like a headline written to stir enough half-hearted outrage to fly on social media but I'm pretty sure that every party including Labour has guidelines on how to deal with vocal BNP and UKIP supporters on the doorstep. Why wouldn't they?

I'm sure they all do. But 'send them to the booths not telling them there isn't a UKIP candidate and they MIGHT JUST MIGHT vote for us: score!" is so lame.

In short: politics.

From what I can tell the Greens were the only party on the ballot that weren't Labour, the Tories or LibDems but tbh if 'let them go to the ballot box and hope for the best' was really their approach then it's more likely to have benefited the Tories than anyone else.

a headline written to stir enough half-hearted outrage to fly on social media

As good a summary of what passes for politics today as I've read in years.

Iannucci wants young people to use their precious votes and often uses his platform as an edgy comedy writer to try and persuade them, even if it is a vote for the Hep C party.

it's one of my favourite stories, all that's needed to save the world is for more people to turn up and vote for the shower of breadhead nudniks on offer to them

LOL Green Party, what a bunch of geniuses.

the green party understand protest voting

Murder a Tory voter today, Victory tomorrow!

Well, Hitler was a vegetarian after all.

green... with envy at other parties' success at stoking the politics of resentment!

Subscribe to my YouTube channel where I explain my plan to offer two or more candidates from different parties on the same ballot entry and if this approach gets enough votes for multiple constituencies each party gets an equal allocation of MPs from it subject to a coin toss on any remainder. That oughta hold those niche SOBs.

wow y'all got wound up by the green party

More amused than wound up, in my case.

when labour gets taken over by centrists you'll all come home tbh

many many xps

UC is going to hit people tories actually (strictly electorally) give a shit about - eg people in shaky self-employment in marginal constituencies. They might be on Tax Credits now and just starting to realise that they are going to be forced to move to UC within the next couple of years, and get significantly less money. They do not think they are currently on a benefit; many of them were intended as the audience, rather than the target, for the othering of 'scroungers'. This - rather than say basic humanity - will probably force a major change to UC.

I guess McVey has figured this out and is positioning herself for the coming shitstorm.

(xp) It's not my home.

xp

woof otm

It's probably part Iannucci's fault that UC is still impoverishing ppl, cos all those wankers he persuaded to vote x-ed the Tories in tight marginals in '15 + '17.

When I think of Greens I think of ex-LSE grads who are in shit rock bands, and have some worldview like we are all Richard Scarry characters, and live in windmills. And have future tech lighting that is powered by smugness.

they have a strong historical connection with the eugenics movement as well.

elon musk james murdoch are you reading this
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4004/4181693259_f24d5ea1e0_b.jpg

The creatures outside looked from pig driver to hot dog vehicle but already it was impossible etc.

they have a strong historical connection with the eugenics movement as well

There isn't a single political movement that *isn't* untainted by the eugenics movement, which was p. much mainstream thinking circa 1910.

Rather than targeting Nazis, the Greens would be better off reminding ppl that if we don't do something sharpish then climate change means we're all fucked anyway so diffs of opinion re Left vs Right become pretty much academic.

Scarry was determined to mess with our minds in his crazy anthropomorphic world - he has pigs frying bacon in one scene too.

Fuck me the replies to this. It’s so infuriating that for a huge chunk of people the debate hasn’t moved an inch from the referendum. There’s really not going to be a way to get through to them, is there?

Government papers say Britons could be barred from accessing their accounts for Netflix, Spotify and other online entertainment while travelling to EU member states in the event of a no-deal Brexit

— Sky News Breaking (@SkyNewsBreak) October 12, 2018

Meanwhile the Vindictive Areshole Office presides.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/13/home-office-sending-medics-to-accompany-man-on-removal-flight-australia-three-stokes

great use of public funds there, cheers

jesus christ that story demands an armed response

The Telegraph is loving this latest Corbyn story, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/.

heard some historians discussing it on the radio the other day, the desperate need for some of them to #notallempires is puke-inducing

some people really do believe the BE was somehow different from other evil global empires. I've even heard non-white people coming out with this claptrap. Corbyn totally otm.

tbf I'm not sure if any other global empires conspired to get an entire nation hooked on opium then shelled them when they objected to being turned into mumbling, drooling junkies.

gunboat drug-dealer diplomacy

if the Torygraph is wanting a sanitised, propagandist Tristam Hunt version of the benign Empire teaching, what hope is there of children staying awake in class?

come on, all that Featherstonehaugh of the Raj single-handedly butchering a thousand Pathans before opening the batting for England in the afternoon shit is totally thrilling

when they had been made civilised enough to govern themselves we jolly well left them to peacefully partition themselves accordingly and their were street parties waving union jacks from Madras to Lahore .. jolly good show.. The End.

It’s so infuriating that for a huge chunk of people the debate hasn’t moved an inch from the referendum. There’s really not going to be a way to get through to them, is there?

Economic collapse and unemployment might do it but even then I doubt it.

Every news story this morning seems to be about the impossibility of May getting any kind of Brexit deal through Parliament. Has anything intelligent been written about what happens if:

- Labour and Tory rebels vote down whatever May proposes (specifically, are we then guaranteeing No Deal, and how exactly does this benefit Labour?)
- The EU is so set on avoiding a hard border in Northern Ireland that it rejects all May's proposals and we end up with No Deal (and then a guaranteed hard border in Norther Ireland)

These two seem to be the big events that every commentator is assuming will happen but no one has actually called out what the consequences will be (including for the people making the decisions). The Labour dream scenario seems to be 'Brexit deal voted down -> govt collapses -> election which Labour win -> all happy now' which strikes me as total pie-in-the-sky cobblers but the worry is that's actually the plan.

The question is whether anyone - Remainers, Leavers, the media, ordinary voters staring down the barrel of No Deal and everything grinding to the halt - is going to thank Labour for breaking the government at that particular point, and even if they DO somehow win the election what are they going to do with the crisis that will immediately be theirs to deal with?

Meanwhile the EU seems to underestimating the difficulty May is going to have getting any deal that's acceptable to them through Parliament. But a hard border isn't acceptable to them either, certainly isn't acceptable to the Irish government, and would be pretty much the most irresponsible thing that a British PM could do other than the many irresponsible things they've already done. I just can't see the EU, when push comes to shove, going with any situation that would lead to a hard border, including No Deal.

So the only scenario that seems to work is an extension to Article 50. Is that even possible? Inconceivable that Labour wouldn't immediately request one having got in, and the Tories must know this. Obviously if May were to do so it would be self-immolating her own premiership but it's the one thing she could do that might be to the benefit of the country.

Also in the event of Britain actually requesting an extension, which European government is most likely to vote that down and what are the consequences for the EU when that happens?

We're in for a horrible three months of 11th hour brinskmanship whatever happens.

with the added clusterfuck of the DUP's hardfaced brinkmanship on their red lines and the threat of voting down the budget and the growing pressure from the "moderates" on UC, this whole government just might fall apart before the end of the month, but i wouldn't bet on it!

some people say the DUP are masters of playing the game of chicken, but it would be hilar if they had their bluff called and actually voted down the budget, and forcing an election.

idk if that would mean they would have to pay back a billion though.

Except the Fixed Term Parliaments Act means that voting down the Budget wouldn't necessarily lead to an election, especially if Parliament was feeling fearful enough - it actually increases the DUP's leverage given they have nothing to lose but their influence over the government.

The DUP could conceivably break the budget and then support the government in a no-confidence vote.

despite the FTP act, I thought a budget getting voted could still be fatal and trigger a vote of no-confidence. But yeah having their cake and eating it is the DUP mo!

budget getting down-voted - I meant.

since FTP the budget falling isn't fatal: the only thing that's fatal is losing a vote of confidence, and while a vote of confidence necessarily follows the budget going down, losing the first doesn't necessarily mean losing the second -- as matt says, the DUP could vote down the budget and then support may in a vote of confidence (and carry on doing so as long as things don't go their way)

they will vote against her in a vote of confidence when/if they decide they'll get a better deal out of a corbyn govt

We will get into relatively rare constitutional territory there, won’t we? It’s not going to be a US-style shutdown, but a government that can’t deliver supply yet doesn’t dissolve is effectively a zombie administration, no?

britain's most multilingual man otm:

Just booked a one way flight out the UK. Not an easy decision to leave family and friends behind, but there's a bad atmosphere in the country and I need to get out. Now feels like a good moment. I'll always be a European first. I'll never apologise for that. I leave in 3 weeks.

— Alex Rawlings (@rawlangs_alex) October 11, 2018

Rawlings, who speaks Russian, Italian, Dutch, Hungarian and Hebrew among many others, said: “I have huge faith in the people of the UK to sort this out eventually. It will take a generation… and in the long term, it will be good for the country to realise its own insignificance.”

The question of what it means to be British would, he said, remain fractured because “we have never done what Germany did and talk about the legacy of empire, about the terrible things this country has done in the world. That the majority of people in the UK think the British empire was a force for good is terrifying”.

On the earlier question, I think the plausible scenario comes down to “deal can’t pass parliament, govt uses this as a plausible reason to ask for an A50 extension, gets one, the govt rumbles along continuing to hope something turns up/Corbyn resigns/something.”

If they get a two-year extension, that will take us past the next election and that’s going to be a firecracker. Xp

what a smug twat is my take, tbh jed. Nothing like making all the ppl who haven't got the option to up sticks and go (to which liberal utopia?)abroad, feel even worse about their fucked up lives in the Uk!

To barcelona.

Where the spanish govt has been busy strangling the democratic independence movement with violence and locking up its leaders lol

he could have just said the weather's shit!

there is definitely a communication problem with the remainer movement

just stick to 'these corrupt cunts will make a mint off brexit' and say it over and over again

On the earlier question, I think the plausible scenario comes down to “deal can’t pass parliament, govt uses this as a plausible reason to ask for an A50 extension, gets one, the govt rumbles along continuing to hope something turns up/Corbyn resigns/something.”

This assumes that no anti-EU European government chooses to vote against an A50 extension, although you could argue that a disastrous Brexit isn't exactly in their interests either.

yes i think we're in "let's just do it and be legends" territory but i wd not be startled if that's where end up: the banter heuristic, what's simultaneously funniest and most awful :|

re the extension: this of course hands power over to the EU to say -- as the queen does re forming a government -- not if you can't demonstrate you have parliament's backing, no extension w/o an election

would they do this? ONLY IF IT'S FUNNY (and awful)

then of course we get a succession of unresolvably hung parliaments for months on end

Meanwhile I think the way in which revelations of pre-referendum interference and rulebreaking have been reported is, by and large, a dereliction of duty on behalf of the BBC, shit like this should be the top story really:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/14/met-police-damian-collins-no-investigation-leave-campaigners-data-misuse

the BBC don't even cover it when a stuffy old institution like the BMJ accuses the government of "corporate murder". Wouldn't expect them to embarrass the government over Leave using US style dark money and illegal means etc..

Last week in what it described as a “warning shot” across Conservative bows, the DUP abstained from a vote on the agriculture bill and said it could vote against the budget.

On Sunday in an opinion piece in the Belfast Telegraph, Foster raised the stakes further, saying she was not playing a game and hinting she was prepared to die in a ditch, politically speaking, to save the union.

“The DUP’s actions this week are not as some have suggested about ‘flexing muscle’. Anyone engaging in this in a lighthearted way foolishly fails to grasp the gravity of the decisions we will make in the coming weeks,” wrote Foster.

Sometimes I think the DUP might actually fuck this government over, even with the threat of republican PM Corbyn and they might even gamble on him not winning an election, which is quite plausible according to current polls.

even if it meant someone worse than May concluding Brexit negotiations, giving even less of a fuck for Unionist interests. At least Arlene got to die in a ditch and grimly watched someone else die!

How soon we forget: Labour only get an honest appraisal under election coverage conditions and Brexit is the thumb on the scales WRT all polling.

In other news, I really hate Arlene Foster: the brass neck on that woman, considering NI was 65/35 Remain.

the polls have been consistently swinging 4pts either way since the election, sometimes it becomes news!

But this is the endgame, isn’t it? The aim now is a no deal brexit in order to turn the uk into low regulation low tax low welfare state. No Deal doesn’t have to go through parliament, does it? How can it?

N. Ireland vote was 56/44 as it happens.

Point still stands, AF still a rancid dumpling.

and that was just what her mother affectionately called her!

The problem for the Tories is the (probably quite significant) number of voters who voted for them last time because of Brexit and nothing else. Once it's out of the way, whether it goes badly or not, their support is likely to fall off a cliff.

Plus, y'know, nature doing its job.

Quote of the week undoubtably comes from a source close to Arlene Foster: “This is a battle of who blinks first, and we’ve cut off our eyelids”

— Tom Ridgway (@Tridg98) October 14, 2018

wait when did they have eyelids? they are reigning staring-competition world champs in the english-speaking world, and likely beyond, and have been for more than a century

(yes i know the DUP is not the official unionists, but edward carson had a low opinion of mainstream unionists back in 1911: he described them as the "unrolling of a mummy")

Really can't see no-deal because of the danger of an '08 style crash.

Counter: In the 20th century, Europe fought itself to destruction in two wars.

Thing about the brinksmanship is they’re not going to get away with pissing about until Mar 28. It needs ratified in EU for one thing, and the crash will happen as soon as the money reckons no deal is more likely than not and wants to get out first.

I can see the EU ratifying or even relaxing the rules on an extension at the 11th hour if Draghi screams about it.

http://www.ft.com/fastft/files/2016/06/ftse-250.png

^^^this won't affect DUP tactics tho

Is the EU in any kind of danger of a 08 style crash?

Agree. The DUP probably just want to get rid of May, get the Tories scrambling to find someone else. In that sense the Tories can get another leader that the DUP could back to keep this parliament going. Something could be cooked? The government is broken, and it can carry on like this for a long while.

this is where the real danger is of course
https://i.imgur.com/UNK9X1X.jpg

so many bright sides to the impending apocalypse

there was a big stocks tumble on thursday, wasn't there? i'm not sure i saw an explanation (beyond krugman saying "trump is a fool")

yeah i heard about the FT dropping but no real analysis beyond "lol markets"

tbf 'lol markets' covers all bases p good most of the time

DUP in 1975:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpeQc_GW0AEkRdi.jpg

Xposts London's finance sector is very large and connected to Europe and the world, and although the banking sector have put more safeguards in the event of a shock it would be a test.

do you think the DUP just saw "Treaty of Rome" and could never get beyond that?

xxp
beautiful!

Brb opening the book of revelations for Sunday night Lols

I can remember my Irish gran calling me and others Antichrists once, for not going to Easter mass.

ulster says MAKE WAR WITH THE LAMB

other things happening in europe as we speak: the CSU just got a colossal thump in the german elections, SPD wipeout, greens did well

a) never rule out merkel, she is the toughest politician in europe and bonn is littered with the bones of those who had her in their sights
b) big shake-up to follow all the same, with likely consequences all over the shop

I’m so glad to have discovered that my Irish Protestant family were Methodists, fuck the DUP with a set of padlocked swings.

Well, at least we’ll be running a surplus in painfully on-the-nose metaphorical photographs pic.twitter.com/SfCWcisu8D

— Archie Bland (@archiebland) October 14, 2018

not sure i can quite decode the "extras on a break from filming poldark catch up with twitter" metaphor

stupid fucking actors, trapped in the maze of their minds!

I'm not sure about the Times one either tbh!

the more i read about this and think about it, the "backstop" is kind of the whole game, isn't it? or at least it could turn out to be

It’s the crux of the thing for sure; and clearly the EU knew it from the start. And what a gift it is for them. For all the many irreconcilable promises, “no border inside the UK” is special, because it is only possible if the EU grant it.

Which they have literally no incentive to do. Damaging though a no-deal would be for them, it will always be worse for Britain; they know Britain will have to fold first and so they can demand the best possible outcome for the EU, sorry “punish plucky Britain for daring to leave”.

There are afaict now just four routes out (apart from stall for more time): 1, become a rule-taker in the customs union indefinitely; 2, put a hard border in the sea; 3, cancel Brexit, or 4, call an election to let someone else do one of the other three.

The last three are politically impossible so that only leaves becoming a rule-taker. (Though I bet if May had a majority we’d already have agreed to option two. And they might still try it, which would seemingly provoke the DUP to bring them down.)

I don’t think the fantasists will let her have option one either, not when BMW is just waiting to force the EU to make the easiest trade deal in history.

So what now? Either Labour support the eternal-customs-union deal (which would be genuinely bad for us) or we slide into no deal, the government collapses, people are rude to the Rees-Mogg offspring, we scavenge bins etc etc.

Why would being a rule taker in the customs union be a bad thing it seems like the best option short of cancelling Brexit entirely. It seems infinitely preferable to the feudal freemarket hellscape that the moggites desire.

The UK will be a rule taker in any market it wants to trade in because it’s an insignificant rainy island in the Atlantic. China, the US, the TPP will impose heir rules on British exports. The whole point of the EU being part of a larger collective and having bargaining power. Every trade deal in history results in the weaker power getting fucked and everyone is lining up to fuck the UK once it’s out of Europe and the Uk will have no alternative but to take whatever it can get on whatever terms. It’s fucking moronic to think otherwise.

The best option short of cancelling Brexit is Norway.

Being a rule-taker keeps the lights on but it’ll be destabilising as fuck in the medium-term. Yes shitty tiny rainy island, but nevertheless still a G7 economy, and there are rich pickings to he had for partners (look who owns all our privatised industries eg).

The trade-offs arguably worked within the EU when the UK had a voice to argue (disproportionately well historically) for its interests and get eg services deals in exchange.

Without that representation the incentives for the EU27 would be pretty damagingly configured for future negotiations. The terms would just as unfavourable to the UK as they would under the free-trade hellscape scenario and unlike the FT scenario the counterparties would have unfettered market access to the UK. There’s no way in hell that ends well.

(I am assuming the backstop is sub-EFTA here but I can’t see how it wouldn’t be)

The main incentive the EU has to avoid a hard border would be preventing a serious economic shock to Ireland (and possibly a political one too).

Whether that's enough of an incentive is another question but I'm not convinced they will want to willingly create yet another crisis when one could feasibly be avoided.

It’s definitely enough incentive but the EU can avoid the hard border in ways which are mostly upside for the EU and all downside for the UK, and they know the DUP are their trump card on delivering that.

May to make statement to the commons this afternoon.

Let me guess, the statement will be that she's planning to carry on just as before and tough shit if you disagree?

that statement in full

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/garfield/images/6/65/Download.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150511211358

https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/f7fcc6e5-43ca-4343-90ae-de1dbab08ecb.png

I'll just leave this here

I'm genuinely curious about what she's going to come up with. It can't be "nasty EU still being nasty :(", surely

it's surely that.

also this ERG member MP thinks there's a reciprocal arrangement whereby English people can get an Irish passport by asking for one:

ERG member @ABridgen thinks he has the right to an Irish passport by virtue of being English. pic.twitter.com/oLekrvuroT

— Property Spotter (@PropertySpot) October 15, 2018

I mean, no he doesn’t.

(think that)

Brexiters’ lack of trust in PM is so intense that @SteveBakerHW has told ERG he fears negotiating impasse is a ruse, or “synthetic”, to spook markets and Tory MPs, so ultimately they back unacceptable backstop and Chequers. “All this must be called out” Baker says

— Robert Peston (@Peston) October 15, 2018

The statement to his ERG colleagues in full from @SteveBakerHW on @theresa_may’s statement this PM on Brexit impasse pic.twitter.com/Mrlra3Sh7k

— Robert Peston (@Peston) October 15, 2018

How many steps are between us and the moment someone calls this 'brilliant 5d ch*ss' from May etc?

the markets will gyrate, colleagues will swoon

please subscribe to my erotic brexit fanfic

as the only possible outcome is stalemate, and probably always has been, my tinfoil-hatted cat thinks it's just another wheeze to distract us all from panicking about climate change

i am perfectly capable of panicking about more than one thing at once cheers

It's one thing to lose to political opponents who are sharper/better/craftier/etc. Losing - when so much is at stake! - to this feeble-minded crew of dunces is a right fucker. "We must stand firm in what we believe: [two mutually exclusive concepts]" indeed.

"we signed a treaty for a backstop, clearly I can't expect this house to agree to a backstop"

This 'backstop to the backstop', even if temporary, seems almost guaranteed to have the DUP tipping over tables.

hey welcome to what weve been dealing with all century

.@theresa_may confirms she is balking at proposal for NI only “backstop to a backstop”. And that UK should have right to unilaterally break free of backstop in future. If at this point you are losing will to live, you are not alone

— Robert Peston (@Peston) October 15, 2018

have we considered the possibility that theresa may is in the grip of a two-year attack of uncontrollable glossolalia

Clever rebranding of backstop. The original backstop - which is still there - is now a backstop to a backstop. May also reveals the EU is saying a UK wide “temporary” customs bridge to avoid the backstop-backstop cannot be negotiated pre-Brexit. Kicking into future relationship?

— Tom McTague (@TomMcTague) October 15, 2018

This guy remains...something else.

@DanielJHannan
5h5 hours ago
Britain should confirm that it will put no new infrastructure on its side of the Irish border and is prepared to meet any reasonable proposal for a free trade agreement that would allow the EU to do the same on its side. That should have been our approach from the start.

'We will do nothing to solve the border and suggest you come up with the means to ensure that you don't have to either"

the sheer bloodyminded arrogance of 'we wanna leave, you do all the work but make sure we don't have to give up any of the many exemptions and privileges we've carved out for ourselves during our membership of the eu' never ceases to be shocking

thickie divorce

Britain should confirm that it will put no new infrastructure on its side of the Irish border and is prepared to meet any reasonable proposal for a free trade agreement that would allow the EU to do the same on its side. That should have been our approach from the start.

They used to talk about this dude as being the smart one. How exactly is an undefended and unpoliced border going to play with the racist brexiteer hordes? It'd solve the EU's migrant problem, though. Just create a staging post in Monaghan with a big arrow pointing to the UK.

"make sure we don't have to give up any of the many exemptions and privileges we've carved out for ourselves during our membership of the eu"

...except if you put forward a plan which keeps any of them, even the ones we told everyone they could still have, we will immediately wail "that's not really leaving"

and somehow people, real everyday people not just political spin doctor con artist types, keep cheering this disingenuous bullshit which seems self-evidently at odds with reality. do not know how to join the two realities back together

meanwhile Maybot still churning out "the people have had a vote: they voted to leave" "working to get a good deal but continuing to plan for no deal too" in response to all questions

not as infuriating as the last May speech about how the EU is a bully for not accepting our highly constructive good-faith negotiations aka "I know you are but what am I" though, I'll give it that

"a staging post in Monaghan with a big arrow pointing to the UK"

I hope the migrants enjoy the Armagh Planetarium on their way in, it's p cool

If only neo-colonial pipsqueak Hannan had been able to exert some influence over the matter at any point over the last four decades instead of apparently being routinely ignored. I guess now we'll never know how successful Brexit could've been with his guiding gross wet hand.

Can't believe our previously functional political system has suddenly failed us

lol we're all gonna die

Asked whether Donald Tusk would be concerned not to disrespect Theresa May, after the Salzburg fiasco, an EU official says that "telling the truth" is not being disrespectful. Fear that the PM might hear some more hard truths this week.

— Daniel Boffey (@DanielBoffey) October 16, 2018

Gloomy by EU official. If all gone well Sun, a joint political declaration would have been on table at the leaders dinner. "Since there is no agreement on the Irish backstop there will not be an outline of joint pol dec on table on Wed evening..it will not change before Wed"

— Daniel Boffey (@DanielBoffey) October 16, 2018

BREAK: Senior EU official confirms the EU will not be providing dinner for Theresa May on Wednesday 🙀

— Darren McCaffrey (@DarrenEuronews) October 16, 2018

"yes it's the leader's dinner, but no you're not having any because are you actually even a leader?"

Meanwhile the rollout of Universal Credit has been paused.

Saw also that Nick Timothy is suggesting that the government should remain in the customs union for five years - yes he’s a total galaxy brain but as a headliner who’s responsible for much of the approach, this is an interesting development.

probably sick of her kvetching about "foreign food"

I’m not sure the no-dinner thing is a great idea when she’s a type 1 diabetic? Reminds me of this (official!) photo from almost a year ago.

http://amp.timeinc.net/time/4991476/theresa-may-lonely

I love that often repeated "out there in the job centres the staff have so much enthusiasm for UC and how it is transforming people's lives". Like is as if the staff are going to deliver a devastating critique of UC to some fucking bigwig visitor from the DWP. UC needs burning down to the ground and cunts like IDS and Frank Field need executing for their roles in it.

hnnnngggghhhhhhhhh

The Progressive Centre UK (which you can follow @UKProgressive), a new think tank and network of progressives – which I have been appointed to chair – has launched with the explicit aim of connecting progressives from across the UK with the latest ideas and from across the globe.

— Chuka Umunna (@ChukaUmunna) October 15, 2018

most loathsome bunch of Jethro Tull enthusiasts ever.

MOAR CENTRISM

breaking the mould of politics by forming a think tank

that tank in full:
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2016/06/tarkus.jpeg

sorry tarkus i luv u really

Delighted that @chukaumunna has agreed to serve as Chair of our advisory board. In his latest piece for @Independent, he explains why ‘whether you want to call it centrism or progressive politics, it’s back’.

"it's back" huh? didn't notice them days when they stopped forming centrist parties and dubious think tanks, they're like ants ffs!

it's true: real progressive politics is trying to appease both sides by upholding the status quo, good job everyone

Unlike hard left organisations, @UKProgressive will not moan about being spied on. In fact, infiltration by the police and security services will be actively encouraged.

— Simon Hedges (@Orwell_Fan) October 16, 2018

the difference between the parody and the real thing is nothing at all!

is this good?

No grounds for optimism before #Brexit #EUCO. Only source of hope for now is the goodwill and determination on both sides. For a breakthrough we need new facts.
My press remarks after #TripartiteSocialSummit: https://t.co/iaOG6aDQJ4 pic.twitter.com/usQ2zZ9KEK

— Donald Tusk (@eucopresident) October 16, 2018

sounds super-posi, we're finally gonna get our sovereignty back and stick it to johnny eu imo

lol at how chukka's independent column today is about how Labour needs to be led by someone in their 40s. This is literally his one idea.

he had his chance and he shitted out with flying colours!

chuka amunna turns 40 literally tomorrow btw

lol

So, things that are progressive:

weird ageism
sucking up to big business
telling the electorate what to do
nice suits

Anything else?

Oh, forgot neo-colonial adventurism leading to millions of deaths

don't forget Wes Streeting's nice hair and photogenic looks, but just forget if he says something, because always bad I'm afraid!

forgot undisguised contempt for the working class, too

undisguised contempt with just a glint of fear

or is it the other way round? both work for me!

typically excellent piece from aditya chakrabortty in today's grauniad on how four decades of thatcherism has fucked the uk

Thatcher loosed finance from its shackles and used our North Sea oil money to pay for swingeing tax cuts. The result is an overfinancialised economy and a government that is £1tn worse off since the banking crash. Norway has similar North Sea wealth and a far smaller population, but also a sovereign wealth fund. Its net worth has soared over the past decade.

The other big reason for the UK’s financial precarity is its privatisation programme, described by the IMF as no less than a “fiscal illusion”. British governments have flogged nearly everything in the cupboard, from airports to the Royal Mail – often at giveaway prices – to friends in the City. Such privatisations, judge the fund, “increase revenues and lower deficits but also reduce the government’s asset holdings”.

Privatisation and austerity have not only weakened the country’s financial position – they have also handed unearned wealth to a select few. Just look at a new report from the University of Greenwich finding that water companies could have funded all their day-to-day running and their long-term investments out of the bills paid by customers. Instead of which, managers have lumbered the firms with £51bn of debt to pay for shareholders’ dividends. Those borrowed billions, and the millions in interest, will be paid by you and me in our water bills. We might as well stuff the cash directly into the pockets of shareholders.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/17/economic-lies-neoliberalism-taxpayers

tl;dr: lol we're all gonna die

I was reading Owen Hatherley's new one, Trans-Europe Express, this morning and he made exactly that same point about North Sea oil money in his chapter about Bergen. Talk about a missed opportunity.

it was no missed opportunity, it was theft

unless you're Chuka, in which case it was progressive politics

every single untapped drop of north sea oil needs to stay exactly where it is forever if we're going to at least attempt to avoid catastrophic climate change, though

lol, first thing I saw when I accidentally glanced the comments section after reading this earlier was someone making glib comments about how dysfunctional + unreliable BR were, and was thinking Truss, Grayling and co would have the same pathetic responses to "look at the fucking state of this country after 40 years of laissez faire capitalism and daylight robbery, you spineless + corrupt political minnows ".

xp both v true

North Sea Oil will be tapped out by the 2050's, so fuck the environment so we do need to think "progressively" about what to do with that remaining oil! Then of course the huge cost of decommissioning the rigs will be brought in house.

Aditya’s piece particularly well-timed considering this moron centrist was mouthing off about how neoliberalism didn’t exist as a meaningful concept yesterday.

"Even the IMF says so" needs to be understood in the context of the fact that IMF forecasts for the UK were actually very positive in the late 70s - largely due to the oil - but this is airbrushed out of history altogether these days.

Caught a bit of pmqs just now - government benches are really empty looking. It’s a far cry from Cameron turning to the jammed benches behind him for support.

it's that painfully bad last season of the walking dead.

I've been hearing there are twenty years of North Sea oil left since I was a small child.

got a nasty case of pmqs last spring - didn't go away until I'd given my moat a good cleaning

Interestingish piece: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/17/divided-britain-study-finds-huge-chasm-in-attitudes

Nothing that revelatory really I guess but ergh The most recent polling by the group, of more than 10,000 people in July, found 32% of people believed there were Muslim “no-go areas” in Britain governed by Sharia law, a view endorsed by 49% of leave voters in the Brexit referendum. and so on.

so what do these fucking dolts think will happen if they stumble into a 'muslim no-go area'? they'll be instantly beheaded by isis as the cops look on, powerless to intervene?

there is pub down the road from me where lots of the BNP knuckleheads used to drink and hold meetings in the 90's and it is actually now actually a Sharee Council building, which probably confirms this "conspiracy" to many folks! I love the way they kept the old Car Park This Way sign from the pub days, just to rub salt into the wound.

just type actually again cos it feels good.

reminds me of this beautiful tweet

As someone born and raised in Birmingham, I must admit there was a pressure to read the Kerrang.

— ★ Unklerupert (@unklerupert) January 11, 2015

Lol otm

extremely good tweet

ha

Good and scummy from the ~intellectual fash rag.

This week’s cover: Divide and rule. How the EU used Ireland to take control of Brexit, by @JGForsyth pic.twitter.com/UiBbnuG9LH

— The Spectator (@spectator) October 17, 2018

nice to see that the Spectator cartoonist has as good a grasp of the Ireland/Northern Ireland border as senior Tory politicians

I was flicking between radio stations yesterday and briefly heard a 5 Live presenter reading a listener's "get involved" text that was something like: time to stop the tail wagging the dog, it's time to dump N Ireland.

'how the eu has used ireland to take control of brexit' = 'how no-one in the uk government gave a single thought to post-brexit ireland until way, way too late'

time to stop the tail wagging the dog, it's time to dump N Ireland

galaxybrain.jpg

small brain: Eire is trying to annex are NI!
normal brain: the EU is a threat to the union!
galaxy brain: the death of the peace process and/or Irish unity is a small price to pay for glorious Brexit

I wonder what is their truth about the belling cat.

it is actually time NI was served notice tbh

xp that they're fat kids probably

xp thought the problem is the Republic doesn't want them either

imagine The Spectator's response to a Remain EU proposing a soft border somewhere out on the Eastern frontier

thats not a fucking problem imo

healthiest thing in a divorce is not to ask the child what they want

well sure

Suddenly being given a lump sum of £5000+ due to chronic underpayments over months or years, will push many #disabled people into the "no longer eligible" category for income based benefits. People on #benefits aren't allowed to save up money for things. https://t.co/gBOL4juGm3

— spookworm (@notwaving) October 17, 2018

some disabled ppl will have to start hiding money under their floorboards if they can't spend the money they were underpaid in the first place, or lose income based benefits.

the worst of that is that it's not like the majority of disabled claimants are between jobs, it's their actual income ffs

I'm sure you might be able to get away with it by lying, but in the current hostile environment lots of disabled people are very fearful of the DWP.

you'd be surprised at what information banks and building societies automatically pass on the Inland Rev, i assume this might also reach the DWP tbh

I guess under the floorboards is the only option then. From I've read anything over £6k has to be spent within 6 months.

Unless you spend it so quickly they rule it is “intentional deprivation of assets” and you are spending with the intention of getting benefits back. In which case they stop your benefits for as long as they think the money should have lasted you

they have it all covered these days, to ensure disabled people are as materially + psychologically stressed as possible. Great bunch of lads the DWP.

starting to think the government might not be particularly concerned about the wellbeing of disabled people tbh

Someone strike through people there?

I would probably try to argue that a) this £5000 underpayment covering a timespan of 120 weeks increased my income by £41.65 for each week I'd been underpaid (and I would expect to be £41.65/week better off in weeks to come) and b) I would spend a lot of it immediately on any arrears generated during that time, so FUCK OFF DWP.

as someone who recently won an ESA/disability appeal I can confirm that most of the backpay I got went on paying back my credit card/friends/family who helped out during the 15(!) month process. fuck knows what would have happened if I'd lost.

it's fucking scary enough when you are getting texts from your bank telling informing you have six quid left of your overdraft, even when you know a payment is coming in to get you some breathing space again. But not even knowing if payments will be made = total living nightmare.

lol FBPE twitter has gone into meltdown because Today has followed up a Rog Daltrey spot with a Micheal Caine one. I heard a bit of the the Caine one this morn where he described Trump as "a funny guy".

Lots of speculation this morning that the EU have pretty much given up on negotiating with May on the backstop issue and that pretty much her only option is to extend the length of the transition period in order to get them round the table. The idea being that compromise on the backstop becomes easier if it's less likely they'll need it at all.

This all strikes me as pretty spurious given that there's no guarantee the EU will agree, and that extending the transition period would be akin to May basically putting her hand up and asking for a vote of no confidence and a leadership challenge. Doesn't mean it won't happen, hope you're all stoked for the madness.

The Brexiters frontrunner now appears to be Michael Gove which is about as big an advert for Remain as you could imagine.

Today I spent the morning with a 38-year-old female rough sleeper. She looked at least 15 years older than that. She’s been sleeping on the streets for more than 2 years. She cried as she told me the things men ask her to do in exchange for a couple of quid.

— Natalie Bloomer (@natalie_bloomer) October 16, 2018

ewww

Why is the Government so wet?https://t.co/386J3JUozF

— Jacob Rees-Mogg (@Jacob_Rees_Mogg) October 18, 2018

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-45901043

If ever you needed proof that god hates Britain and wants us to all die of starvation.

i am v much stoked for the madness

that BSE case appears statistically unremarkable tbf

stoked that the fates are aligning so i can finally indulge my secret craving for the taste of human flesh

Metro have a quote regarding the extension: in inimitable May style, it seems hand-crafted to enrage everyone.

https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/18/theresa-may-says-shes-ready-to-delay-brexit-8050504/

‘A further idea that has emerged – and it is an idea at this stage – is to create an option to extend the implementation period for a matter of months, and it would only be for a matter of months,’

in other news, the conservatives today announced their new head of media relations

https://www.ptotoday.com/images/articles/small-blog/1016_weird_12-copystore2.gif

where's cordelia gummer in our hour of need

http://home.bt.com/images/do-you-remember-gummer-enlists-daughter-in-bse-battle-136398133623102601-150515170134.jpg

eat the fatberger cordelia

lol how is she called cordelia: NOTHING WILL COME OF NOTHING, BITE AGAIN

she died of creutzfeldt-jakob disease iirc

creutzfeldt-jakob-rees-mogg disease amirite

i mean it would explain a lot about the workings ('workings') of rees-mogg's mind ('mind')

http://www.eadt.co.uk/polopoly_fs/1.4067856.1431269521!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_630/image.jpg

it looks like his son Ben has succumb to some terrible malady as well....

well he did write this book

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51K%2BWbduDfL._SX326_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

we're all gonna die lol

I prefer his other book How I Got Blackballed from the Progressive Eugenics Movement after they saw what an immensely ugly bassa I was.

my uncle died of cjd it was absolutely fucking horrific

right carry on

c'mon Dmac, these comments are in the context of an appalling conservative politician that used his own kid as a political prop. No-one would make light of a citizen dying terribly of something.

seems timely to post this (unironically good though) piece!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/18/opinion/england-ireland-border-brexit.html

Featuring this:

Jacob Rees-Mogg, the arcane M.P. who looks as though he has been extracted from the nightmare of a Victorian child,

👌

Featuring this:

Jacob Rees-Mogg, the arcane M.P. who looks as though he has been extracted from the nightmare of a Victorian child,
― gyac

the child was spoilt victorian

"arcane" how though? He's hardly "Hidden, concealed, secret." is he?

i fuckin' wish

xp oh no not in the spirit of lamenting yis at all calz. hadnt thought about it meself in years tbh. only noting in passing interest

I probs should have known better, RIP Dmac's Unc.

JRM's so low key that when he turns up on QT (or any BBC program) he gets a ceremonial gavel and everyone hushes up in the presence of a superior, anyone correcting his dubious talk is taken out and flogged.

meanwhile, over on twitter

Yes, the UK does have a special responsibility.

To stop arming Saudi Arabia and to help end the war in Yemen causing this humanitarian crisis. https://t.co/AEovkoAJk5

— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) October 17, 2018

I thought arcane was a bad choice of adj. too but the article is very good and I'd be keen to read a longer version. The final exchange is perfectly depressing.

I did something I never do and contacted the author to tell her how accurate it was and sorry that she was getting so much shit about it. It’s very very otm, every Irish person I know here has lots of stories like these.

The other thing that might make an extended transition appeal to the EU is we'll finally have a fucking election and May will get enough time to quit without it actively sabotaging the country even more than she currently is.

yeah ive never lived in england but from visiting there for weeks at a time, and them visiting here etc, that article is note-perfect

worst i ever met is a first cousin brit army boy. his own uncles gave him a shoeing out the back of the house one night when he couldnt stow it. family duty.

not sure how I missed the pigeon head incident

xp your uncles otm. Idk what it is about some of the second+ generation but I was reading a football journalist talking about the “no surrender” chants at the England game earlier in the week and half the flag emoji cunts queuing up to attack him had Irish surnames.

At least Johnny Mc is still representing?

John McDonnell: “I long for a united Ireland, but I recognise democracy.”

— Kevin Schofield (@PolhomeEditor) October 17, 2018

jesus what party would have him over here at all with that

All our parties at home are absolute shite, it could only improve the quality, genuinely don’t know who I’d vote for if I went back. Independent probably.

SSSSSSSSSS!

think i can square a labour vote with my better conscience still tbh

practicality and "anyone but sf/ff" i can pinch my nose for fg but it won come to that i dont think

I could never vote FG! Obvs I love Michael D but the rest of them, I don’t know about.

confession: working for whichever crew i always see things a bit their way, cos you have to in order to get anything done.

jesus tho i might resign if SF/FF got in. which would suit em obv

That's a very good article, alright.

I hadn't previously seen the "viral" video with the pigeon's head. jfc.

Ah I'd seen the fella as a meme but didn't know what he was from!

Never vote for FF. The most devious of all. The only TD I like is Clare Daly, I guess I would just have to move to Fingal? SF ahead of FG though I mean jesus. Labour are the only reasonable option despite everything.

Tempted to go to bookies to put a tenner on May being gone by this time next week after that disaster of a press conference.

the ra shot my neighbours dog plax (hi btw) so never never never sf

I'm curious as to whether another generation or two would allow SF to actually pull off re-invention as a party of the left, though that great leap may be a hostage to events, if you'll pardon the phrase.

"Sammy Wilson has said he has received assurances from a senior civil servant that there will be no physical border checks even if the UK crashes out of the European Union without a deal."

I would like to believe that the civil servant followed through with "..because we're cutting you cunts loose as soon as we can", but Sammy, due to a breeding defect, can't process that concept.

Apologies if posted already but this is hilarious if true:

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-10-17/how-tiny-moldova-s-brexit-grudge-could-cost-u-k-1-7-trillion

sf need to develop some economic policies that dont terrify everyone first. but steps already well underway now that jarry and martin are out of picture....for now

the ra shot my neighbours dog plax (hi btw) so never never never sf

― Dmac TT (darraghmac), Thursday, October 18, 2018 9:51 AM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

was this dog a tout or pro-british element tho?

shankhill butcher's dog m8

the ra firebombed my wife’s house when she was a kid - they got the address wrong but luckily it was a shite bomb and no lasting damage was done, plus the fellas that did it bought her da a couple of pints to apologise the next week so all’s well that ends well eh

proper haircuts, proper terrorism

a child would firebomb a house in the street

thank god the RA sent the Kerry squad that night!

What is @theresa_may’s one last shot at negotiating a Brexit deal? This is what well-placed sources tell me https://t.co/8cMTxJy0aT

— Robert Peston (@Peston) October 18, 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_nMo5xKuC0

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2018-10/18/6/asset/buzzfeed-prod-web-01/sub-buzz-10244-1539857869-3.png?downsize=800:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto

at least Chukka has got himself a nice p/t job, £451 ph. All he needs to do is c+p content from various centrist parody accounts and no-one will notice the difference.

Chuka of course believes MPs should resign before taking second jobs. Or at least he did 18 months ago.

Wes spot on here. On no level is this defensible and, worse still, it reinforces the false claim that all MPs are in it for themselves. https://t.co/eohRUDw88g

— Chuka Umunna (@ChukaUmunna) March 19, 2017

Although surely not as bad as the MSP who managed to work 376 taxpayer funded days in a year.

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/so-how-did-health-minister-work-376-days-in-just-one-yearministers-questions/

got a link to that weeks The Broons?

Apologies if posted already but this is hilarious if true:

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-10-17/how-tiny-moldova-s-brexit-grudge-could-cost-u-k-1-7-trillion🕸

There's got to be some Indian cookery award for a headline with that much masala on it. The 1.7 trillion figure would be if the UK was previously up for winning every single government procurement contract in the world. https://t.co/IHM18Spzlc

— Dan Davies (@dsquareddigest) October 18, 2018

They've modified it now to "Moldova Grudge Could Cost U.K. Access to $1.7 Trillion Projects"

Con Mp for Plymouth Moor, ex dashing "one of our boys" and star of Channel 4’s Celebrity Hunted, Johnny Mercer, who turned down a role in government has described May as an unimaginative technocrat and called her cabinet “a shitshow". Stoked for the madness!

remember when we used to bemoan the Tories' unerring ability to present a united front?

johnny mercer... otm?

With military fervour, he concludes: “I’m not going to sit at the back of the bus and watch it head towards the edge of the cliff. I’m not going to let us go down without a serious shit fight.”

he's probably pro death penalty and suffers from flashbacks, but on May and her cabinet he's deffo otm!

I've seen quite a lot of trad right wing Tory ex-army types slating this government about PIP. I don't think they give a monkey's about what it is generally doing to disabled people, more that the PIP assessments aren't recognising PTSD as a real condition.

only our bravest and best have earned the right to have mental health problems is an attitude I've seen some of.

It goes along with the historic "Barrack Room Language" as in only our brave lads in the forces are allowed to swear.

feel we're missing the real tea here:

I’ll give you one chance at honesty. Did you insinuate my wife was a prostitute on the Plymouth Herald comments section?

— Johnny Mercer MP (@JohnnyMercerUK) October 16, 2018

uh oh @biilabong1965 is in real trouble here

*extremely robert de niro voice* did you insinuate my wife?

*extremely canonic stand-up comedian voice* insinuate my wife… please

I did something I never do and contacted the author to tell her how accurate it was and sorry that she was getting so much shit about it. It’s very very otm, every Irish person I know here has lots of stories like these.

When you come to England you quickly realize the English don't know anything about anything, they don't have to so they don't bother. Not to generalize or anything.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/celebrity-hunted

Series 2 Episode 1

Can Johnny Mercer MP avoid the hunters and get to Westminster for a crucial Brexit vote? Meanwhile, a text message to Love Island's Chris Hughes and Kem Cetinay's burner phone exposes their hideout.

For a sitting MP in a minority administration, perhaps signing up for this kind of thing isn't the best idea?

galloway-in-a-catsuit.gif

also lol now remembering a young SWP apparatchik (long since quit) glumly pushing the line that no! GG being on BB was the GOOD kind of populism!

congratulations to Nick Clegg on his new job

for the record, i'm in favour of sitting mps signing up for reality shows as long as the show is the running man

I bet Clegg's getting paid more than Gideon/Cameron combined and multiplied a few times then add a few more mill!

Well if you want that kind of elite experience and credibility you gotta expect to pay the big bucks

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/19/tory-rightwingers-seek-to-embarrass-may-over-high-powered-rifles-ban

These guys are sociopaths, but I guess you knew that already.

What legit use could have for a weapon that powerful? Unless you are some deranged N Yorkshire farmer convinced you could should shoot an Iran launched ICBM down before it gets to Beverley!

even if it was a bill to outlaw feeding bairns to Komodo Dragons, they wouldn't gaf.

blasting remoaners into red mist from 1.8k away iirc

Don't come crying to me if a badger comes at you driving a Transit

the hunting sett

I used sometimes work with a f/t shooter of anything that moves on NT land, and tbf he was more funny as fuck than scary, but still somewhat scary sometimes!

gamekeepers are/were interestingly ambiguous figures IMO, inextricably linked with upholding the power of the landed gentry but obviously not of that class, and often radically opposed to it in both temperament and outlook. Land Agents were similar if more lower middle class figures. This sounds interesting on that subject: https://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n24/nick-richardson/eels-in-their-pockets

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fichef.bbci.co.uk%2Fimages%2Fic%2F1200x675%2Fp02c99y2.jpg&f=1

lol yeah

SB on why FB is hiring NC (includes telling typo in the tweet), "facebook" for "brexit") (worth glancing at his conversation on twitter abt this also)

On Nick Clegg's hiring: a sign both of how the UK will matter less after Facebook and also Remainers' low chances of stopping it: https://t.co/ZhdGMrhsAV

— Stephen Bush (@stephenkb) October 19, 2018

clegg's got a proven track record in collaborating with evil regimes so it's a natural move

probably also a sign of the wheelbarrows of bunce FB have offered him, with full bennies and his own castle etc

"facebook hires english knight to protects its property in europe", as alex hern put it :)

lol!

Hard Brexit Tories will use a Commons vote to try to overturn Home Office plans to ban high-powered military-grade rifles in a show of political defiance aimed at Theresa May.

Police want the .50 calibre or higher weapons – which can immobilise a vehicle or truck from a mile away – banned because they fear a terrorist who got hold of one would be impossible to defend against.

But 35 Tory MPs – many of whom are understood to be members of the European Research Group (ERG) – have decided to back an amendment to block the proposed ban.

I know it's been discussed already, but I came to post it and hey.

Maths is not my strong point but I presume Labour are hardly likely to vote against this (except natch Kate Hoey) so won't this be a bit of a damp squib as a show of defiance?

Also (xps) Mercer's part time job for a company specialising in offensive and defensive cyber security is pretty lucrative (although I think his hourly rate's not as good as Chukka's)

From 14 Sept 2018 until further notice, Non-executive Director of Crucial Academy Ltd, One Canada Square, Canary Wharf, London E14 5AB, for which I will receive £85,000 per annum. Hours: 20 hrs a month.

also at facebook, richard allan, Vice President Public Policy EMEA and ... checks notes ... mp for sheffield hallam 1997-2005.

https://www.libdems.org.uk/richard_allan

Reportedly Clegg was playing hard to get and the courtship included lengthy phone conversations while he was walking in the Alps, the inference perhaps being in such surroundings one only thinks pure and deep thoughts!

you know who else liked a walk in the Alps?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40667038

You would think the fate of Robin Cook might have given these political hillwalkers food for thought.

It makes me think of R Biggs quote about travel narrowing the mind.

https://i.imgur.com/i6dyBmD.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/16/52/68/165268890494cf92f07e5805c71e9f4d.jpg

"you know who else liked a walk in the Alps?"

Blondi the Alsatian of course!

Feel like this belongs here https://www.instagram.com/p/BpHhkfCleTf/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1aa8mb5w9z9p2

possibly the first time Bobby's played the straight man

Boab thinking, "You're a disgrace to Paisley, Neil".

poor Boab was struggling to articulate a coherent attack on Tory austerity, but at least he tried (couldn't remember Sajid's rhyming surname). It reminded me of a late uncle of mine who used to cane it too much and my mum said "you can't get a word of sense out of him these days, even when he's not drinking - he's got the 'wet-brain'".

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1019/1005373-backstop-tony-connelly/
excellent Tony Connelly piece here - A brief history of the backstop.

I didn't notice the recent anti-Irish stuff in The Sun, but quelle surprise etc...

Reading that was exhausting! So much stress and energy wasted over the two years, so little to show for it.

really good article. so much misunderstanding. this is their job. i’m sure most parties involved are good at it. but it’s fascinating to see how it’s still possible to talk past each other and for assumptions to go unexpressed and unexamined. you just assume the other’s words are working in the same categorical and definitional space as yours. as do they. and it’s possible to maintain misunderstandings with perfect equanimity until a sudden realisation, incredible to both sides, that each of you have a different understanding of the most important thing.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dp9UuknW4AEMqwx.jpg

the fucking state of that, Londinium shudders with its greatest embarrassment in a thousand years!

maybe the hardships of no-deal brexit are the lesson we all need

Eh I’m normally the first to cringe at this stuff but that’s really not that egregious. If that were, say, a bizarro post itt nobody would blink an eye

this one is not only nauseatingly crap, it has also been thoroughly debunked by hardcore Spice Girls fans.

I'm ready for the great famine, there is lots of protein in insects .. and humans!

Spotted! pic.twitter.com/HvVk0Ijw2E

— Armando Iannucci (@Aiannucci) October 20, 2018

A key downside to that many people at one protest is indeed such woeful signs. Imagine how many ironic Wolves flags at the front tho.

There’s always that one prick who shows up with that father ted reference on a sign

glinner's long game part 2

https://img.maximummedia.ie/joe_co_uk/eyJkYXRhIjoie1widXJsXCI6XCJodHRwOlxcXC9cXFwvbWVkaWEtam9lY291ay5tYXhpbXVtbWVkaWEuaWUuczMuYW1hem9uYXdzLmNvbVxcXC93cC1jb250ZW50XFxcL3VwbG9hZHNcXFwvMjAxOFxcXC8xMFxcXC8yMDIwMTMxMFxcXC9jaHVrYWFhLTEwMjR4NTQ2LnBuZ1wiLFwid2lkdGhcIjo3NDAsXCJoZWlnaHRcIjo0MTYsXCJkZWZhdWx0XCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL3d3dy5qb2UuY28udWtcXFwvYXNzZXRzXFxcL2ltYWdlc1xcXC9qb2Vjb3VrXFxcL25vLWltYWdlLnBuZz92PTVcIn0iLCJoYXNoIjoiZTE5NzU2NGM5M2NhZjZmMDQyNGM5OGRiNWE3ZDU0YzVkYjJlMTM2YiJ9/chukaaa-1024x546.png

2nd ref vote Leave campaign poster.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqBt6D7XcAAwPud.jpg
lol @Godwin'sFuckwit's Law!

why

why are if ye are which it seems ye are

against the march for a second vote

good old-fashioned British bloodymindedness iirc

just loathe the political players behind it with eternal venom and find the people involved with it laughable at best.

If that were, say, a bizarro post itt nobody would blink an eye

is this the thing about centrists again

I know I'm not the only person who even if I'd rationalised the various self interest reasons to vote Remain in a 2nd ref, would actually trust myself to do it at the polling station. And this is not something I felt at the first ref.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqByrkyWoAAwHbf.jpg

"is this the thing about centrists again"

The whole problem is that they keep trying to do this with exactly the same wankers who pushed people into the arms of Leave in the first place, but at least Nick Clegg has had the good sense to absent himself this time. That's partly a self-selecting issue - party lines mean the only pro-EU politicians who can get away with turning up at an event like this are those who no longer have careers left, and who happen to represent Remain-voting seats. David Lammy is pretty much the only one I have any respect for.

That Chuka/Anna Soubry picture suggests he's learned nothing from what happened to Scottish Labour around the independence referendum - is it that hard to just march on your own, or with people from their own party?

But I was at the Iraq protests in 2003 and I remember full well how that was dismissed as a middle class day out, the way in which the voices who didn't fit in with that caricature were ignored or just erased from the conversation.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/chuka-umunna-centrist-think-tank-65000

To be fair if I was Chuka I would cash in before everyone twigged what a limited politician I was.

Best thing is for £451 an hour alls he has to do c+p some twitter centrist parody accounts into some kind of "content" and no-one at Progressive Centre UK will notice the difference.

There’s more to it than that’s. as far as I’m concerned, none of these people have learned anything in the last two years. If you read the article about Irish people in Britain and how Brexit is magnifying those tensions, then you might understand how I felt when I saw the author attacked by a former Labour MP/vocal remainer as being “hateful”. White EU immigrants are valuable, except when they’re speaking up about the imperialism and blindness that comprised many of the arguments for Leave.

If you see Corbyn being constantly attacked by #fbpe types on twitter while they continue to fawn over the Tory rebels (who vote with the government every time when it counts), you might question their motives.

If you see people wrapped in EU flags and treating the whole thing as a simple issue, as they characterise the same EU that lets refugees drown daily in the Med and that has slept on the rise of fascism within its borders as inherently progressive, then you might wonder who they think they are helping. Corbyn’s 7/10 is how I feel about the EU, but I’ve been attacked by Remainers who just don’t want to hear it. If you can’t even engage with some of the real criticisms of the EU, how can you hope to defend it?

People advocating for Remain while making the argument that immigrants can be deported under EU law or giving oxygen to the legitimate concerns crowd - who are they standing for? What have they learned? Why are they legitimising these views instead of challenging them?

Alastair Campbell and Tony Blair deciding to become prominent advocates for Remain when the Iraq war was one of the two main events that led to the death of trust in the establishment - what are they going to do if a 2nd ref leads to an even more emphatic Leave vote and the right decide to start saying the quiet parts loud even more than they are doing?

Are any of the 2nd ref people engaging with the Leave voters and the issues that led to both the first referendum
and its result in a meaningful way or are they painting their faces blue and yellow and thinking that that constitutes a winning argument?

TL;dr these people are utter charlatans who’ve learned nothing, and who will directly endanger lots of people by pressing for this nonsense.

Sorry if incoherent but it enrages me how these people carry on and don’t care about the consequences.

good post gyac.

Or, more succinctly:

On today's march, I ducked into Pret along with many other People's Voters. It was heaving and chaotic, but we formed genteel queues, laughing - "No, no, after you -" "Do you mind if I just?" - because decent. Because cooperative. Because positive. Because properly British.

— Dominic Minghella (@DMinghella) October 20, 2018

He also retweeted a post attacking the Labour leadership for not being there. Abbott and McDonnell were attending an event against fascism which is of greater value than a million of these marches.

it doesn't seem that long ago these idiots were publicly trying to blame Corbyn for Brexit. I can remember Chuka clowning about with IDS on Today, on the referendum day, joking about what a shit leader Corbyn was and jokingly referring to him as "our star striker" when he was supposed to campaigning for remain.

They’re still doing it!

true! But they thought they going to be able to cynically use it as a pretext for replacing him back then.

were

Unlike a lot of people I don't actually believe that every issue revolves around Corbyn and what he thinks and this one certainly doesn't. But when you look at the behaviour of Blair and Campbell on this issue (and I don't doubt that they genuinely believe in it) you do have to wonder what their endgame is.

Blair in particular has been much more vocal about Brexit (and Corbyn) than he was about the austerity policies that amounted to the systematic dismantling of most of the good things that his government did, that led to Brexit in the first place, and about which he was largely silent. At least when Brown makes an intervention it's about something of substance, with Blair you get the sense that it's solely about preserving what remains of his legacy. And Blair has been a key proponent of this 'Remain, but with controls on immigration' fantasy that literally no one in the EU would take seriously.

My main issue with these people is that it's so exasperating because, imperfect as the EU is, there doesn't appear to be any kind of Brexit that isn't a disaster in the making. They need to get this right and they just aren't.

I also think that trying to make the issue all about Corbyn is seriously counterproductive for Remain - a lot of young left people in this country, probably the vast majority of them, are pro-EU and pro-Remain and also pro-Corbyn. Trying to force them to choose isn't going to help anyone.

Good posts gyac

Matt's right of course that the protesters were not some homogeneous mob but I think its good to consider the overall tone before you cast your lot in with arseholes who are not your political friends on most issues.

I wish they'd try to develop a coherent case for ignoring the first result - the backhanders and breaches of electoral law might amount to such a case, "thick meanies voted the wrong way" doesn't.

The best argument against it is the opacity of the funding for the Leave campaign, where the money come from, whether there was direct interference by Russia or elsewhere, the fact that campaign rules were broken anyway without much more than a slapped wrist, and the systematic spreading of disinformation as part of it. These are fundamental problems for any modern democracy and it's a huge can of worms even before you get into Britain's enviable historical record of interfering in other countries' democratic processes.

The argument isn't, or at least shouldn't be, about ignoring the result but allowing that the public get a vote on what the actual deal turns out to be, when we actually know what's on the table and what the consequences are likely to be. That is fundamentally democratic and you need to be able to make an honest and transparent case for it without muddying the water with '$top Brexshit' nonsense that means that half the electorate will just shut down and stop engaging.

Whether either of these things mean that the result would be any different is a moot point, and I'm not sure it should be the main concern.

Blair is the last person who should be speaking about this - besides the obvious reasons, he launched the 2005 campaign at the cliffs of Dover and had a slew of incredibly racist policies.

But what if the public votes for no deal?

xp

yeah, maybe the main concern should be how to fix a wrecked democracy - of course I'd argue it was always broken and this is a crisis born of its innate flaws - rather than who wins Stay/Leave in the short term. again, I'm very unsure that "your votes were meaningless" is a good base to start trying to repair the system from.

Or, more succinctly:

🐦[On today’s march, I ducked into Pret along with many other People’s Voters. It was heaving and chaotic, but we formed genteel queues, laughing - "No, no, after you -" "Do you mind if I just?" - because decent. Because cooperative. Because positive. Because properly British.
— Dominic Minghella (@DMinghella) October 20, 2018🕸]🐦

I enjoy it when people's class blinkers are so tightly strapped on they can't see them.

xp
The only difference being that the queue will be for rationed insect-meal and they will be all carrying bloodied lump hammers and axes :p

Fundamentally I'm just profoundly uncomfortable with arguments that boil down to "it's going to happen anyway, just accept it and move on", because those were exactly the arguments made to people who dissented to the post-Thatcherite economic consensus and look where we are now.

I enjoy when “decency” and “genteelness” are ascribed as somehow uniquely decent British values. At least everyone who died under the British Empire did it in a benign way?

Britain quashed the Mau Mau uprising in the tender and loving way one might put down a beloved family pet.

xp true but imo this has to go through Parliament and that can’t happen under the current circumstances. Remainers opposing the one party who can win under fptp are no better than people who “reluctantly” vote Tory in 2015 (and are probably some of the same people). Fundamentally though, none of these people are those at most risk from a catastrophic Brexit and their tonedeafness is dangerous.

i see yr points gyac and obv theres huge swathes of objectionables even on the desirable outcome side

but matts posts seem to make the most sense to me. in a winner-takes-all referendum on something as unsuited to exactly that then idk theres not afaict any scope at all for luxury in whom you happen to be campaigning alongside, and its p counterproductive to even nosehold whilst doing so.

get the result. you can disband immediately after, nobody will be locked in with blairites.

If it’s a choice between voting with the idiots or voting with the fascists, I’ll choose the well meaning idiots any day. That the same idiots are willing to throw immigrants/minorities/the poor under the bus in much the same way they did before the vote is the thing I’m objecting to.

dmac + matt youse are not factoring in what horrific forces can be unleashed by a good old fashioned Right Wing "stabbed in the back" narrative. I don't think I'm being ott here either.

That’s a worry but horrific forces are being unleashed whatever

No that's a central part of my thinking, it does play into their hands. But if you don't you let them win anyway.

If you're going to do that you have to take the fight to them and expose them for the frauds they are, which is why tone is so important and yet more jaunty metropolitanism is absolutely the wrong tone for that.

Then take the fight to them by actually making the argument for immigrants as people with real lives rather than units of destruction. Take the anti-establishment argument away by laying out how your approach will benefit the poor and stop paving the ground for a betrayal narrative. Take the fight to them by opposing the mainstreaming of fascism in the Times and the Telegraph. Leave won the emotional arguments, stop throwing facts and figures at it. Forge a narrative argument, not a technocratic one. Then you might be getting somewhere instead of laying the ground for an even heavier defeat and an even more extreme mandate.

I think Matt’s otm; I’ve been finding a certain type of People’s Voter voice extremely irritating in a similar way, I imagine, to a lot of the “trumps gonna get arrested” crowd, this fantasy of a reset button that gets us back to the glorious prelapsarian status quo of, um, 2016. That’s obviously bs but at the same time Brexit will still be all that bad shit plus yknow the total fucking trainwreck of Brexit, so I’m kinda coming around to the idea that averting it is something to aim for whatever the consequence (& I think there will be bad consequences) - just not *instead of* doing the work of offering something better

xp gyac otm

Everyone otm basically, except deems just because

i dont take it personally unless you pay extra

I agree that a 2nd ref would be incredibly risky. The only way it would work is if everyone who voted Remain plus a big chunk of the people who didn't vote last time came out and voted Remain. Because you can bet that practically all the people who voted Leave would vote Leave again. Really the only way that enough Leave voters might change their mind would be for the deal to be so bad that one of the prominent Leave campaigners publicly states that Leaving is a shit idea - and it would more or less have to be someone like Boris or Farage. Which is very unlikely to happen.

I suspect that, when the consequences are more tangible, you might simply get fewer leave voters turning out but idk. The grim reaper has probably swung things a bit too.

xp And even if it did happen and we somehow managed to stay in the EU we'd be a fucking pariah but so what's new?

."the grim reaper" is a bit harsh on Soubry, no need for personalised abuse!

the grim FBPEeper

Lol!

As to the Leave vote, everybody hanging it on uncouth working/lower middle class outside metropolitan areas is making a huge and telling mistake similar to the mistake made by those analysing Trump’s victory - they are erasing well-to-do golf club wankers and older Home Counties Tories, without whom the numbers for Leave simply would not have added up to a Brexit win.

I am really fed up with FPBE critics of Labour’s front bench who know *damn well* that Corbyn was in Geneva meeting about guarantees for workers rights, Abbott and McDonnell were at an anti-fascist meeting and Thornberry/Keir Starmer can’t endorse marching because of collective shadow cabinet responsibility. Trying to portray Corbyn as having a self-indulgent meeting with a Chilean was especially grating, as Michelle Bachelet is the UN head in charge of working people’s rights.

I'd argue those concerns would still be better served by Britain remaining in the EU rather than allowing the Tories a few years of experimenting with full on Britannia Unchained hyperneoliberalism. And unless you're banking on an imminent Labour victory and the Tories never getting back in, that scenario is bound to happen sooner or later. Anything that prepares the ground for that needs to be resisted, which has been my problem with the whole Lexit argument from the start.

But a second referendum is going to be incredibly tricky for Labour, it's difficult to imagine Corbyn or any of the front bench being able to campaign on either side.

Andrew Rawnsley in the Observer, who has generally been bordering on insufferable lately, made the argument today that politicians are more likely to blink once the scale of the abyss Britain is staring into becomes readily apparent to enough people. That still hasn't happened yet, and it might be too late when it does.

The only way Remain could win any referendum would be through a properly thought-out and executed strategy to split the economically anxious/plain fucked off Leave voters from the outright zealots, immigration obsessives and people who are just cunts. That might be easier when the scale of the disaster becomes clear, "Project Fear" is unlikely to work as a line of attack then. And you have to use people who those voters trust and respect. Paying the likes of David Miliband and Nick Clegg to shut up would be a good first step.

re:enough ppl realising scale

this wont happen

If I were a Brexiteer I would suggest people boycott a second referendum. After all, they say they have their answer, and they disagree with another poll. Even ignoring that possibility, I see no way of holding a second refererendum that would not do further damage to our democracy. We might face general elections in which less than half of those eligible vote, which would be a crisis of legitimacy.

i

i dont see the actual awful ppl u dont want in charge worried about such crises when they win

No, they don't. But I think we should.

Crises of liberal democracy aren't something to wish for. To the people who voted to leave, they were asked their opinion, gave it, and won. I don't know how you recover from the loss of confidence that over-ruling them would cause. I know who they will turn to.