ideal version of what happens after death

i've been thinking about this because, while i'm unable to actually believe in any kind of afterlife, if i could believe in an afterlife it seems so much more exciting and rewarding to believe in ghosts than to believe in heaven and hell. even if you couldn't impact the world of the living as a ghost, i'd be cool just existing for eternity and watching what happens with no stake in the game

we can all agree that heaven/hell is the worst choice, right? so many loopholes and no potential to redeem yourself, if you jaywalked once spiritually you're fucked unless you remember to ask for forgiveness the second before you die. no thanks

nothing/you're just gone. I want to lose consciousness never to exist again or remember I was Neanderthal. being a ghost would be torture, Heaven/Hell is LOL, and reincarnation, fuck that cos I"ll probably come back as a rabbit with a limp or something.

what I'm AFRAID will happen is you will be taken to a DVD menu and you will be required to either choose to restart your life DVD or pick specific 'scenes' to revisit and that it will get tedious after a year or two of reliving the same memories.

Think the rules regarding heaven and hell vary wildly enough within different denominations and etc that it's hard to pin down. Main objection to heaven always like "I'd get bored" but if you did it wouldn't really be heaven right.

Reincarnation kinda feels like nothing to me, the new me I'm reincarnated as will not have my memories and as such isn't really me?

What about singularity reincarnation where you come back as your best self in a computational utopia.

I'm convinced that sports athletes go through 'slumps' when a reincarnated soul temporarily invades their body and this prevents them from playing to their full potential until the soul departs

Nothing but endless, infinite polls for all your favourite topics

Reincarnation kinda feels like nothing to me, the new me I'm reincarnated as will not have my memories and as such isn't really me?

In a sense this is what happens to people as they get older too, when I read something I wrote online 10-15 years ago I barely recognize the person who wrote it. And you know memories can be fickle and unreliable. My mom and grandma still argue about random shit like "what happened in Arizona 20 years ago". They both remember things completely differently. I downloaded all my FB data once and saw several old conversations I had with various people and just couldn't believe some of it. And so I've come to understand how consciousness perhaps does go on, but ~who/what you are~ comes from the ol' noggin. After all you are "conscious" in your dreams right? Although you're clearly not the person you are when you're awake?

this is that push button to disappear thread all over again

You have wakened not out of sleep, but into a prior dream, and that dream lies within another, and so on, to infinity, which is the number of grains of sand. The path that you are to take is endless, and you will die before you have truly awakened.

-Jorge Luis Borges

You should get a certain period of time to study up on every human religion, past or present, going all the way back to Neanderthal animist beliefs, and pick the heaven or hell that sounds most interesting.

Voting for nothing/you're just gone, of course.

torn between ghost and reincarnation

The idea that you'd be granted some sort of magical continued existence with an ideal brain-dependent awareness is imo such a blatant sanity-preservation wishful thinking technique that this thought exercise feels identical to those reddit posts you might see like "what would you do if you woke up as yourself at 14 years old but with everything you know now?" And the answers are just like "I'd invest in Apple LOL" or "I'd have the confidence to kiss Cheryl at the big dance!!" Fortunately no longer existing is so absolute that I won't be able to have any opinions/regrets about it. You could consider that a perk in a way.

going all the way back to Neanderthal animist beliefs,

he does know a lot about stats and epidemiology, so I trust him.

lol

idk I would definitely want the 'nothing/you're just gone' option for to be what happens after I die myself, but I think I would prefer one of the other options to be true for other people because I can't bear the thought of people I loved just not existing anymore - but maybe it's unfair to impose eternal life on them if I couldn't take it myself

idk I would definitely want the 'nothing/you're just gone' option for to be what happens after I die myself, but I think I would prefer one of the other options to be true for other people because I can't bear the thought of people I loved just not existing anymore - but maybe it's unfair to impose eternal life on them if I couldn't take it myself

I want the mercy of nonexistence for everyone I love, but I want all those other people to wind up in some Beckettian hell where they're just a head in a bucket, forced to talk to the head in the next bucket over about nothing for eternity.

buckettian hell

reincarnation but you just get to skip back to the age of 10 and retain everything you've learned in your life, as many times as you want

ghost would be pretty sweet though

The idea of experiencing eternity frightens me so much (and I'm amazed that other people can countenance it without feeling the abject terror that I feel) that if forced I'd have to go for non-existence after death but the possibility that some nirvana like oneness of consciousness where time is revealed to be a meaningless human construct could be achieved is maybe a bit easier to deal with

And at the front gate, what a reward awaits
One bite of loaf from a holy ghost
An eternity of suffering
In the company of all those Christian men

As long as the void is comfy, I'll go with the nothing/you're just gone option.

Also voting for “just gone” as the ideal, though contemplation of it gives a strange simultaneous pleasure/pain sensation.

if I had to gamble my astral life savings I'd say the universe collapses and re-expands and at some point whatever molecules made up your brain reform and you become yourself again perhaps in slightly different form and maybe just maybe this is a process that's occurred thousands of times already

The void, please.

i turn into a skeleton

GTA-style exhaustive stats screen followed by mission select menu allowing you to replay any bits you want with optional cheat codes

^^^^^now we are fuckin talking

All faced with a limitless world of possibilities and second chances, finally banishing lifelong regrets forever, only you just end up spending the whole time suplexing people in year 8

as it's deems' birthday, multi-angle My Greatest Goals comp

was always amused by nietzsche's eternal return of the same (my understanding could be flawed, it's been a long time) that essentially we just live the same life over and over again in exactly the same way without knowing it

Enslaved by ant creatures in a Lovecraftian hellscape (thank you Mr King)

But seriously, GHOST would be an obvious choice for me (which I’d regret after about 10 minutes)

Ideal for me? A non-eternal heaven which serves as a vestibule to nothingness, where you have an interval during which you do not need to serve your physical needs, so as to eliminate pain and worries, and you can you learn how you, as an individual being, fit into the universe, before losing all sense of self and merging back into the whole.

I would like to be gone except for a tiny grain of consciousness that carries the knowledge of the existence of the world/the universe/existence itself, because what freaks me out the most about death is the idea that my POV is the only one I have access to and thus when it is gone it will be as if nothing exists or has ever existed, and I can't wrap my head around that much nothing.

Other, gone but you take fifteen hundred carbon credits with you to offset

any afterlife that involves me maintaining consciousness via my terrible malfunctioning mind is a big thanks but no thanks. would ideally prefer the opposite, reincarnation as some low-level lifeform with negligible consciousness like a tube worm or slime mold or something

Ideal for me? A non-eternal heaven which serves as a vestibule to nothingness, where you have an interval during which you do not need to serve your physical needs, so as to eliminate pain and worries, and you can you learn how you, as an individual being, fit into the universe, before losing all sense of self and merging back into the whole.

Having trouble parsing this… Do you merge back into the universe or into nothingness? You learn where you “fit into the universe” after you’ve lived your life (when it’s too late to change your life)?

I voted "other" just because it suggests something interesting. What I expect is a rapid disintegration of consciousness and that's it. But I'm open to 2001-style cosmic awareness, that would be cool.

i can’t decide between these options without more detail. what kind of reincarnation, random or based on my karma or do i get to pick? if ghost, am i a self-aware ghost who can just float around doing whatever or am i bound to reenact my earthly traumas? which heaven, which hell, which moral system determines where i go? if i can just pick heaven that would be nice. i would like 1 ultra-hedonistic heaven, please, with music and flying and people i love and exquisite beauty all around me forever, etc.

the "what dreams may come" heaven is pretty neat, but the fact that people who commit suicide go to hell in that cosmology (because they don't realize they're dead, which makes no sense) is a bit fucked, to put it lightly

I see a lot of people watched the finale of The Good Place.

my thought as well

Do you merge back into the universe or into nothingness?

Since energy and matter are conserved, I project that whatever it is that my heavenly existence was grounded in would be conserved, too, just on the basis of analogical thinking, but if I no longer have have any consciousness of an individuality that seems like a kind of nothingness on a personal level. Since nothing of this sort is observable, it makes sense that one's language about it is imprecise.

You learn where you “fit into the universe” after you’ve lived your life (when it’s too late to change your life)?

I don't envision this as a report card or a chance for a do-over, more like a culmination. As a species we seem to have a strong desire to answer these questions about our place and purpose. We have imagined a large set of possible answers, but certainty escapes us. It would be nice to be able to ask questions of this sort in an afterlife and be provided with definitive answers.

Hope this helps you in your struggle to parse.

“nothing/you’re just gone” is the logical choice but it is also the root of my lifelong fear of dying

i’ve got it managed to the point where i dont have anxiety attacks that wake me up from my sleep anymore but there’s still a part of me that cant deal with the heaviness of non-existence

so i might have to be a cornball & vote heaven/hell purely for comfort reasons rather than practicality

Me too Veg. I can't face 'nothing, you're gone' but everything else is awful too I guess except an actual heaven that's actually awesome and then you can choose to switch off when you want.

heaven obviously, wtf at having to choose hell as well

The only reason I don't want to die is because I don't want to miss what happens next. So, I picked ghost.

I think reincarnation might be the best pick, actually. In some versions of Buddhism, you can be "re-born" as a ghost, or a god or demon in various heavens and hells. It covers most of the bases.

I want the ability to go anywhere at any time period and just follow anything that interests me. Go forward and see what happens to the people I leave behind. Bounce around the next American century and see if we fuck it up or not. Rubberneck on the outskirts of some major catastrophes. Go forward a million years and see if we evolve into giant pulsing brain creatures. Dive through Jupiter's atmosphere. Find out if Milton Berle's dick is as big as they say it was.

Then, when I run out of ideas, off to the eternal nothing.

Also, it might be nice to find out if I mattered at all.

in buddhism i like the bardo part more than the reincarnation part.

Yes, it must be a bit of a bring down after seeing the clear shining light of a thousand suns, only to be told "Join the queue for uterine re-entry, on your left mate".

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

All of the animals can talk and are dressed up for the occasion of my arrival in the afterlife.

you become Dominic Toretto

Makes sense. That franchise has already lasted an eternity.

i went with reincarnation. that's my ideal version.

heaven/hell - no. those are both game over in different ways 5)
reincarnation. play again. 1)
ghost. i guess you're just observing. i don't know what else i would do. hang out at ghostville. 2)
nothing/you're just gone 4) game over
other 2) newgame+ play the life you just had, with everything you learned along the way, starting at the beginning

play again, except as a different character

could be like playing as Luigi

or as the Start Menu, and you wait for eternity for a player to start the game

play again, but you jump twice as high and your legs spin wildly

lol if you wake up from death to a card that says "Congratulations! You unlocked Luigi!"

or as the Start Menu, and you wait for eternity for a player to start the game

oof that's brutal
the eternal spinny wheel

if I got reincarnated, I'd wanna be a tree or something.

not an animal, and def not a human being.

cos I"m afraid I'd come back as some fuckin' Toby Keith assed flag-waving motherfucker.

or maybe as Toby Keith.

what if you came back as a tree with a really bad itch

does the itch get relieved if someone carves their name in me

i think i'd be happy to be human, again. so many different ways to be human!

xp the itch never gets relieved

trees just learn to deal with it :(

my 6 year old boy is starting to become really sentient, he's so much like me and is at the age where he's starting to form life-defining memories, it's kind of fucking with my whole perception of the **gestures wildly** whole deal

are you going to share with him your ilxor username, so he can see what daddy hasbeen up to all this time

of course, it's how he refers to me

I went with reincarnation. that's my ideal version.

I was initially drawn to it, but if it’s infinite reincarnation that sounds overwhelming. My logic may be faulty, but if it’s infinite, ‘you’ will experience every possible experience it’s possible to have - which sounds too overwhelming.

So prefer “game over” on balance I think.

As long as I receive total consciousness on my deathbed, I'm good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X48G7Y0VWW4

There's this super-fun Japanese arcade game where you physically flip a table across a multitude of different on-screen scenarios in an attempt to wreak as much havoc as possible, and in one of these scenarios you are a ghost attending your own funeral and hurling the coffin at your bereaved and now utterly traumatized loved ones.

So that.

xps reincarnation doesn't seem overwhelming to me, even if it's endless, since you don't remember your previous lives. It's effectively the same thing as oblivion (though a hardline Buddhist might argue otherwise). Eternal bliss, damnation, or purgatory is a *much* more overwhelming prospect for me. Though being a ghost might be cool if I can travel freely to other planets and such...a "space ghost," if you will.

After many failed attempts to post something coherent itt - the incremental afterlife depicted in the final season of The Good Place as in the 'get it out of your system' hedonistic part upfront (regardless of any metaphysical paradox) before becoming beyond whatever defined you on the material plane has an obvious appeal.

As does being able to 'witness' anything that ever happened anywhere even just as a 'ghost'...both effectively some form of both heaven and hell in itself in addition to 'becoming God' by gaining all that knowledge.

Reincarnation effectively the same thing as oblivion? This is why you need to check the T&Cs carefully.

Nothing but endless, infinite polls for all your favourite topics

Wonder how people (not specifically ilxors) that sincerely believe in reincarnation as new humans, are reconciling that with a probable overlapping belief that humanity as a whole could be near its end. Do they even think that one through? Or is the idea that souls will leap to any point through time? What about the timeline bits where there are no humans - does consciousness just recycle in a certain time pocket while the rest is….? Consciousness as a singular phenomenon that becomes then un-becomes feels right to me - just wish we had maybe 50% more time.

I just don't wanna come back as an incel edgelord and not have my previous memories to tell me NO DON'T BE THAT GUY

I just generally assume that the energy that has currently coalesced into this thing called ME will dissipate at death and reapportion itself into a variety of new forms. Like a little bit of me will eventually become a little bit of a squirrel and a little bit of a ficus and a little bit of a shoe salesman, etc.

is it possible to be reincarnated as a fart.

if so, how long do you exist as a fart? do you stop existing a minute or two afterwards, or are you molecules that are part of the sky and just don't smell?

If you were reincarnated as a fart and no one smelt it, did anyone dealt it?

I'd quite like to be zapped back to the start of the same life with full knowledge of where I went wrong to rectify many many wasted opportunities. The beginning bit might be a bit dull though.

can you still post 👍🏽

I'd spend years 0-2 screaming DON'T SHIT YOUR PANTS, DON'T SHIT YOUR ah well maybe next time

Wonder how people (not specifically ilxors) that sincerely believe in reincarnation as new humans, are reconciling that with a probable overlapping belief that humanity as a whole could be near its end. Do they even think that one through? Or is the idea that souls will leap to any point through time? What about the timeline bits where there are no humans - does consciousness just recycle in a certain time pocket while the rest is….? Consciousness as a singular phenomenon that becomes then un-becomes feels right to me - just wish we had maybe 50% more time.

well see the universe collapses and explodes again and then you get another planet Earth and suddenly there you are again but half an inch taller

Frognis Antetokoumpo

oh wait you said half an "inch", not half a "foot". d'oh

voted ghost in the end

feels like the most gothic, tragic and weirdly hopeful, as well as the most aesthetically pleasing

always wanted to be the lead character on Opeth's My Arms, Your Hearse

I want to come back as a bed that eats.

Bed Lunch

Voted 'other', decline to say what.

When someone's entire self can be destroyed by a brain injury from a bump on the head, how can anyone expect the self to persist after a body completely stops working?

magical pseudo-physics

the universe admin understands the structure

the admin will "drag and drop" us to the next vessel

I have my self backed up across 379 DVD-Rs.

Used to read all these John Varley's stories about that.

Ugh at typo. A few more minutes in typo purgatory for me, I guess.

I mean this is basically Altered Carbon

Is that show any good? I just liked one of the actors in something else.

I'm sorry, I meant flash disks.

What happens when your self storage media becomes so hopelessly antiquated that no one has the equipment to access it anymore?

You should see my closet full of 360K floppies.

When someone's entire self can be destroyed by a brain injury from a bump on the head, how can anyone expect the self to persist after a body completely stops working?

they're still someone though. I mean my "entire self" has undergone a half-dozen total transfigurations as I've made it to my mid-30s but theres still some continuity there

This thread just expresses the shocking job Christianity (the worlds first or second largest religion?) is doing to actually communicate it’s historical dogma to the larger world. No Resurrection/new-earth/trans-physical option? And don’t try convince me heaven/hell is synonymous, I won’t have it

Is that show any good? I just liked one of the actors in something else.

The books >>>>> the show.

heaven and hell is not synonymous. hell would be at least 100x better than heaven

I meant heaven/hell option synonymous to a biblical resurrection concept.

No Resurrection/new-earth/trans-physical option?

a few years back i got really into the idea of trans-physical, but in a negative way, like no, don't do that! i still think it's bad and will happen at some point, at least for some people. maybe it will be an option for Bezos-like people, to transcend human limitations. what a hero jeff bezos is! or maybe it will be like the matrix, just transcending into a computer program and effectively removing yourself from the earthly activities other than your body as a resource or an asset to a company. maybe that reality is better for some people, especially if the transcendent virtual world is really cool!

xp oh, that makes sense! i doubt many would vote for that. we ran a generic religious/spiritual/agnostic/atheist poll a few years back, and i came away thinking "wow, this is the most apostate/non-believer crowd i've ever been a part of, fuck yeah"

I dunno, seems like a few people ITT wanted reincarnation with retained consciousness which = two big parts or reincarnation.

I’m convinced resurrection is the unappreciated magnum opus of afterlife discussion. Needs to get into the mainstream besides zombie movies.

*two big parts of resurrection

The quicktalking bit upthread that said endless reincarnation is the same as oblivion, i think we should all maybe just take a turn each out of our busy lives to disagree with that

Anyways the actual is still the ideal, the signal to the tv blinks out

The quicktalking bit upthread that said endless reincarnation is the same as oblivion, i think we should all maybe just take a turn each out of our busy lives to disagree with that

i have to admit, i did read that and put my hand on my chin

"Hmm!" i thought

TY km, on point as usual

Who's next

If you have high cholesterol and go to heaven do u still gotta take statins

Hail statin

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

If you have high blood pressure when you arrive you book an appointment with Jesus-as-divine-healer. You only have to take statins until your appointment time arrives, several millennia hence. Try to arrive about 30 minutes early because there's paperwork to fill out and rescheduling for later is a bear.

So is the big twist here that, whatever you voted for, that's actually what happens to you?

I like to imagine that after I die I will stop getting 15 spam calls a day

You will start making 15 spam calls a day. Heaven is just a marketing scheme.

whatever you voted for, that's actually what happens to you?

and if you voted "other" whatever happens to you is decided by a very verbal four year old on a sugar rush, just for the lols

great, we're all destined for the Great Booger in the Nose Beyond

nuh uh, you're bart sikmpson

if you ask a 4 year old in 1991, i mean

i was 8 then. i knew 4-year-olds. i hadn't seen the simpsons, but i knew that if you were playing rock paper scissors, rock beats paper, paper beats scissors, scissors, beats paper, and bart simpson wins everything. also the bulldozer.

can't tell if this thread is about not reading the instructions or enormous levels of depression

Hail statin

vg

I've come to see reincarnation as a metaphor. As much as I dig the poetic idea of 'coming back as an ant', this is closer to something like the existentialist idea that you are essentially reborn with each second, giving us an astonishing amount of agency and power to put things right, minimise the amount of harm you do and to make (attempt to make) the correct decisions - in actions and morality.

In lieu of reincarnation I dig the notion of whatever life experience and knowledge and abilities I've accrued being divvied up and disseminated among those who can best make use of it. Kind of like willing all my books to a local library except granting my sikk whistling skillz to the whistle-deficient. Just like upload that shit to the cloud or whatever. You know, technology.

i know we should ask about what happens after death. hey squashed fly!

https://i.imgur.com/6T3SiSM.png

what's your ideal version of what happens after death?!

just place your hands to heaven and pray
that we'll be back together some day heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

*raise

Tonight I need your sweet caress
Hold me in the darkness
Tonight you cause my breastlessness
Do you believe my sandwich?

perhaps that fly is in insect heaven, drinking kool-aid all day long

If we dont remember past lives if we do reincarnate, then how is that practically any different to ceasing to exist?

I want to go on as a bodiless ball of energy/thoughts, interacting with all the other minds. Like the internt but without the pesky shit body cage weighing me down. I dont want to stop existing.

https://i.imgflip.com/2z9jkz.jpg

If we dont remember past lives if we do reincarnate, then how is that practically any different to ceasing to exist?

If you - Trayce - are at this moment a reincarnation of a previous life, are 'you' practically 'ceasing to exist'? This Trayce incarnation, with all its problems, crises, hopes and joys etc, feels different from just 'checking out'.

If this amorphous essence carries no recollection of the current me then i cant fathom the way in which it can be said to be me

The christian notion of a soul but divorced from my consciousness feels far less me than the actual me sitting here tbh

I guess it depends on the design of the 'ideal version' of what you wish happens after death. Do you want to build in some 'recollection' aspect of continuing consciousness etc.

what freaks my nut out is the thought that death can be thought of as like a giant comedy hammer smashing your brain to pieces - in the final microseconds, your cranial neurons are still firing, but they have been rent asunder, separated - what then is the moment of death, what is the consciousness, what state is it in, how can it be preserved intact, what is the point of system restore, etc

which makes me think 'ghost' is still the best answer, because a ghost is an echo of a self at a certain stage of life before death, an echo of the living consciousness and not the one whose neurons are being smashed apart by a hammer

quite fancy lunch now

Reincarnation - ideal version design options

(i) no continuing essence or 'soul' during incarnations

(ii) continuing essence or soul
Option A: constant awareness of continuing essence or soul
Option B: intermittent awareness of continuing essence e.g. at death/between incarnations

Design question: Is the continuing essence on some kind of journey with an aim in mind (e.g. undertaking incarnations with the aim of learning something,?) or are incarnations random or selected with any purposes.

It gets complicated very quickly.

(x post)

Who is it that quite fancies lunch: is it your soul, your present incarnation, or an karmic development resulting from decisions and actions made in your previous incarnation?

The divine fancies lunch, with me as vessel, obvs

The thought of final micro-seconds of death also freaks my nut, in that I irrationally and phobicly can't help envisaging it as feeling subjectively like an eternity of time (similar to the experience of time slowing down in a severe accident).

The afterlife as an eternal perception of one's dying moment eh

Zeno's paradox as applied to consciousness, your final second slowed down and stretching into infinity

More an adaptation of the black hole approach

Before you fuse with the singularity, an endless instant of pure agony

Or pure bliss!

was listening to an expert speak on the topic (on radio 4) the other week and it turns out the time-slowing-down thing is a trick of the memory rather than something experienced in the moment, they had an experiment with having people watch rapidly flickering displays and suddenly starting a bungee jump.

when I was a child, I imagined that when you die you get handed a set of trading cards that collect all the key moments of your life

and then you try to collect other people's better key moments

trade you one 'having a child' for that 'built a pagoda'

Hanging around the pearly gates waiting to scam new arrivals out of their rares.

HOT STAMPERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd4rgyZzseY

04.45 minutes onwards

...I remember that afternoon, not as so many minutes spent in my drawing room interrupted by these strange excursions in time, but as years and years of heavenly bliss interrupted by short periods in my drawing room

i'm getting to thinking that genuine belief in heaven/hell is psychotic and drives a lot of evil behaviors

Well yeah tbh

absolutely it does

if you think that heaven is real, that hell is real, that they're both eternal, and that there is a god that decides, then you will do whatever it takes to get there.

above family

i really, REALLY wish that the protestant movement had developed some sort of Purgatory-like belief, just to provide some sort of option between absolute bliss and absolute torture. it really is just the biggest extremes they could possibly go with. you can so clearly envision the Great Awakening preachers just scaring the absolute crap out of ignorant people, realizing that the control they could gain by doing so

I remember the first newspaper article I saw that explained Parallel Universe Theory had it “in a parallel universe, you could be Cliff Richard”.I decided that was dumb, because either way it would not be me *or* Cliff over there.

i think foucault's analysis of knowledge-as-power has deeply affected my worldview on everything, including this. heaven/hell and similar kinds of beliefs, quite obviously, to me anyway, constitute institutional power structures. religion was at the forefront of figuring out how to tap into all the worst aspects of human behavior and psychology vis a vis these hard definitions of total fantasy, while feeding on the human spirit, in order to accumulate power. i think purgatory may have been the result of some kind of compromise that religion had to make with the state?

I hope its just this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsS_VMzY10I

Not exactly ideal. But at my dentist's earlier today, I imagined Hell as an exponentially prolonged dental procedure, in which the painkillers didn't quite take and the dentist's tools keep scraping your gums and tongue.