On Sinema at the Sinema: October 2021 US Politics thread

Today's Popcorn Classic: The Nut Job (1h 25m, 5 bags)

I was <this> close to starting the last two threads w/that title.

truly, this is her moment

See any movie at Harkins Theatres for just $5 this weekend Friday, September 1 through Monday, September 4! 🍿🎥 https://t.co/DNbYTd2Lea

— Kyrsten Sinema (@kyrstensinema) August 31, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqxD-CPyA_Q

yelling down from my yacht why including means testing for social welfare programs is a hard line for me https://t.co/N4ZIZz4alq

— Andrew Lawrence (@ndrew_lawrence) October 1, 2021

"I'm a medical doctor...I own a Manchin and a yacht"

excellent title
in the way that decker predicted trump, this thread title reflects the absolute absurd reality of the moment

When you got politics like Ted Cruz in the them, you can't lose

Evan, i'm sorry, but you must undergo TYPO HELL

Absolute love for this thread title!

yeah best title in a while

6 bags of popcorn,

5 bags

Head scratcher as to who LaRue would be in all of this

and I'm gonna throw in a little pair of glasses, much like the ones she famously wears

I mean clearly we know who Decker is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi2yvpdtz1M

I can imagine Sinema as a really good villain in the Bond franchise. the Bond heads out there will know what I mean

with Crenshaw in congress the GOP has

~eyes in they sky~

~eyes in they sky~

nice typo, should be "eye"

looooool

the eye in the sky, dan crenshaw

the eye in the sky, the don of the law dan crewshaw, ha-HA!

Hey, my eye is (points) up there.

and i don't need to see anymore to know that

Sen. Kyrsten Sinema left DC earlier today, two sources tell NBC News.

— Jonathan Allen (@jonallendc) October 1, 2021

everybody's working for the weekend

And Sinema is no longer physically in Washington, heading to Phoenix for a medical appointment, according to her office.

Sporting a cute YSL knapsack, not doubt

It's Wine-O-Clock Somewhere...

if she gets retired from senate she and some wacky pals are going to do a reality tv show wine crawl thru Napa

They should just load her up on pinot grigio, she'll come around

Leave Joe alone!!!!

People need to stop calling this a "yacht." It's a houseboat. It is worth $220,000, which is pretty much exactly the median home price in the United States and *considerably* less than what most senators spend on their second D.C. residence. My house costs more than this one! https://t.co/QlMM1kZGjr

— Matthew Chapman (@fawfulfan) October 1, 2021

lol imagine wasting your energy caping for this dude as if his "houseboat" was somehow a frugal purchase.

i could maybe, MAYBE, buy that argument if it was also his sole abode but c'mon.

biden should threaten to confiscate his house boat with eminent domain

i think i can hear lindsey graham and senator coons whooping and hollering in the background. ted cruz is making everyone chug beers again

"listen - i have to gut this climate change funding so that all of your children's futures will be worse! because that's what west virginians want! listen - it's not about the deficit, we all know that. no one cares about that! and if i actually cared about that, i'd increase spending right now on climate change mitigation so that it wouldn't cost exponentially more to humanity in the future! but let's face it, no matter what happens i can just ride around in my boat with my boys so i don't really care! this boat!"

(muffled cheering in the background, "chug! chug! chug!")

Maybe next month’s thread can be titled “the houseboat blues” or “the houseboat boogaloo”

because, well, of course

JUST IN: Kyrsten Sinema has left DC amid negotiations. Her spokesman says it's for a doctor's appointment "for a foot injury." But a hotel just confirmed she will be at her PAC’s retreat with donors for cocktails and dinner at a high-end resort and spa in Phoenix. (@nytimes)

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) October 1, 2021

your house should generally cost more than somebody's boat imo

strong disagree

RT our graphic w/Elizabeth Holmes, founder & CEO of @Theranos, which employs 500 in #AZ09! #WomensHistoryMonth pic.twitter.com/COyqoYZnKC

— Kyrsten Sinema (@kyrstensinema) March 4, 2015

that is a rich text

my boat should cost more than my house? please explain how.

Oooh somebody’s mad about political stunts.

.@SenatorSinema unloads after the House delays a vote on her infrastructure bill:

“inexcusable, and deeply disappointing for communities across our country.”

“ineffective stunt to gain leverage over a separate proposal”

“betrays the trust the American people have placed” pic.twitter.com/Vu4jNy8qy4

— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) October 2, 2021

We should poll what exciting new high-paying opportunities we think she'll take on when her half-assed flirtation with politics has inevitably run its course.

Nah we shouldn't waste any more time thinking about her

i honestly think she should do ultimate triathlon challenges for charity or something. just go run, bike, and swim, raise some money, and that's it

i'm assuming she's already independently wealthy because how did she become a senator otherwise?

maureen dowd reads this thread

My god pic.twitter.com/emtDxrJn6A

— Andrew Perez (@andrewperezdc) October 2, 2021

my boat should cost more than my house? please explain how.

boats are a luxury

Madison Cawthorn is the dumbest person in Congress, and it’s not remotely close. https://t.co/2EAS9SOPu7 pic.twitter.com/ud7jUf4MrA

— Quantian (@quantian1) October 2, 2021

How it started. How it’s going pic.twitter.com/Po3u4VJR7I

— New York Times Pitchbot (@DougJBalloon) October 2, 2021

my hot take is that the dumbest person in college actually IS a very close race

sorry congress

true either way

The perfect Times headline.

I mean look at this headline>>>>> Biden Throws In With Left, Leaving His Agenda in Doubt https://t.co/UySHEKpS7K

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) October 2, 2021

"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out."

karl rove is smarter than everyone here

he's wrong, too

“Pol scene’s crazy/brands start up, each and every day” https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/03/andrew-yang-book-excerpt-campaigning-514967

It's jarring in that nyt article to see "liberals" as synonymous with "progressives" and "the left," whereas in the past couple years (around here at least), I've come to think of it as more in line with "centrists" and "moderates".

Good morning!

Sanders on fire, yelling at Chuck Todd. "With all due respect, the media has a tendency to treat this like the Red Sox vs the White Sox."

This seems like a good plan c

Spending $1.5 trillion over 3 years is like $5 trillion over 10 years. Stop the new spending cold turkey a month before the 2024 presidential election and even the DeSantis-Cotton ticket will support a funding extension. #justsaying https://t.co/WT5rYq7hGa

— Carlos Mucha (@mucha_carlos) September 30, 2021

Haha

Joe Biden downplays Senator Sinema getting harassed by leftwing activists in a bathroom over the weekend: “I don’t think they’re appropriate tactics, but it happens to everybody…it’s part of the process.” pic.twitter.com/S0D6nrzqN6

— America Rising (@AmericaRising) October 4, 2021

if Sinema thinks it's the worst she can expect, she should run a daycare.

I’m sure the outcome will disappoint but the fact that it’s even being reported like this rather than “dems in disarray” or “hard left squad roadblocks” or whatever seems like progress.

The substantive intra-party battle over the $3.5 trillion framework is not progressives vs. centrists with Biden caught in the middle; it's more like Biden and the vast majority of Dems vs. a narrow group of lawmakers who reject/resist the concept but whose votes are essential.

— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) October 4, 2021

caek otm

this is just for lols, but i missed this from last week:

Lauren Boebert has sent a release calling to impeach Biden, but she has messed up the logo here pic.twitter.com/IR3m2QxNFT

— Jake Sherman (@JakeSherman) September 24, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jemkrew4mFU

I'm halfway bought into the conspiracy theory that these spelling mistakes are done on purpose as a way to trigger the libs

Illiteracy to own the libs!

i'm each biden

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

it's i'm every woman

I'm halfway bought into the conspiracy theory that these spelling mistakes are done on purpose as a way to trigger the libs

I’m sure the outcome will disappoint but the fact that it’s even being reported like this rather than “dems in disarray” or “hard left squad roadblocks” or whatever seems like progress.

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, October 4, 2021

Progress indeed, and Jayapal's been on fire.

it's sort of like how they say spam emails are purposely badly written so only less discerning people go for it (i don't understand the logic of this, if it's written to catch rubes likely to fall for the scam, wouldn't they fall for something that looks even more like the real thing, too?)

weeds out the more incredulous ppl so you don’t have to waste any scammin’ time on the ones who will probably figure out they’re being scammed before you get what you want

ohhhh ok, that makes sense

Maybe not the right thread for it, but then again---into and all around this particular rabbithole, "What The Trump Books Tell Us About Jan.6"--and here's why:

Conversely, definitionally, we lived through a historical event in real time, and trying to fill in every last detail might help us understand what happened on the deeper level, and what can and should happen in the near future. There’s still not a great picture of exactly why it took so long for reinforcements to arrive on Capitol Hill on Jan. 6, and who made what decision when concerning them; nobody knows who planted the bombs outside the Republican and Democratic National Committee headquarters; we don’t have a precise sense of what congressional leaders were doing the entire day, whom they spoke to and when, how they and military leaders did or did not work with Mike Pence, and we have even less a sense of what Trump did that afternoon besides watch television. And that leaves out all the other strange things that might have happened inside the vast federal government that day and in the months leading up to it, unrelated to the election. It’s been such a strange two years that it’s hard to make sense of even the parameters.https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/katherinemiller/trump-books-jan-6

Nina Totenberg just now mentioned that Sotomayor "has serious diabetes," oh great

That's been known for a while?

IT came up in a New Yorker profile at least a decade ago

Wal some of us don't keep up w such hifalutin readin (Nina said that's why she wearing a mask at today's reunion, "paranoid about Covid": o get over it girl)

yeah i think she is a type 1 diabetic

i.e., has had it forever

Not just diabetes, *serious* diabetes.
https://www.filmstories.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/yahoo-Serious.jpg

Yeah, Nina sounding like she having serious moonlight fun at the reunion.

xp - Yup. Source: this book from a series my son loved:

https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1534196623i/38799537._UY630_SR1200,630_.jpg

Series of all the Supremes?

Looks cool, anyway. Thanks for that cover and endorsement on a rainy Monday.

Hi Kristi:
Over a dozen U.S. states have become "leaders" in "peddling financial secrecy," according to a global investigation of leaked documents, known as the "Pandora Papers," published this weekend.

Why it matters: "South Dakota, Nevada and other states have adopted financial secrecy laws that rival those of offshore jurisdictions," per the papers, obtained by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) in Washington, D.C., and shared with major news outlets.

The investigation, involving more than 600 journalists examining over 11.9 million financial records, found data showing "leaders of foreign governments, their relatives and companies moving their private fortunes into U.S.-based trusts," per the Washington Post, an investigation media partner.
President Biden has pledged that his administration will lead efforts to bring transparency to the U.S. and global financial systems.
The files suggest that the U.S. has emerged as "a leading tax haven," with South Dakota in particular allegedly "sheltering billions of dollars in wealth linked to individuals previously accused of serious financial crimes," notes the Guardian, another partner, along with the BBC and Le Monde.
Of note: The records provide "substantial new evidence" that South Dakota "now rivals notoriously opaque jurisdictions in Europe and the Caribbean in financial secrecy," per WashPost.

"Year after year in South Dakota, state lawmakers have approved legislation drafted by trust industry insiders, providing more and more protections and other benefits for trust customers in the U.S. and abroad," according to the ICIJ.
"Customer assets in South Dakota trusts have more than quadrupled over the past decade to $360 billion," the ICIJ added.
Zoom in: "Tens of millions of dollars from outside the United States are now sheltered by trust companies in Sioux Falls, some of it tied to people and companies accused of human rights abuses and other wrongdoing," WashPost reports.

The outlet notes records show that in 2019, "family members of the former vice president of the Dominican Republic, who once led one of the largest sugar producers in the country, finalized several trusts in South Dakota."
"The trusts held personal wealth and shares of the company, which has stood accused of human rights and labor abuses, including illegally bulldozing houses of impoverished families to expand plantations," WashPost adds.
Representatives for South Dakota and Nevada legislators and the Biden administration did not immediately respond to Axios' request for comment.
Lotta links in original: https://www.axios.com/pandora-papers-south-dakota-rivals-offshore-tax-havens-67243448-d2bf-4545-bdc9-920ee7ca4f23.html

I specifically recall a story about Trump saying during a meeting that he might get to replace Sotomayor due to the diabetes, and then miming a person in a wheelchair.

Sinema was respectfully questioned by a DACA recipient while on her way back to DC.

The disrespectful and dismissive way the senator treats a member of the public really shows that she doesn’t think regular people deserve the time of day.

pic.twitter.com/cLePd9LGRI

— Eoin Higgins (@EoinHiggins_) October 4, 2021

it goes on and on

Series of all the Supremes?

Sorry, didn’t see this before I left work. Nah, it’s a whole series of different famous people - Jackie Robinson, George Washington, Lucille Ball, Jim Henson (a particular fave in our house), Gandhi, etc. Some are better than others, but my son loved them about ages 5-8, though he seems to have outgrown them lately.

Glad to know that exists, thanks.

We have books from that series on I think MLK, Amelia Earhart, and Jane Goodall. Henson sounds great, will have to pick that one up.

Uh, guys:

https://m.soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/564-on-sinema-at-the-sinema-feat-kristinn-hrafnsson-10421

Let’s sue

Lore pic.twitter.com/RCyqYP5yR5

— Regime Loyalist 🪙 (@cityafreaks) October 5, 2021

Chyron for the ages @CNN pic.twitter.com/bAPgyxgUpV

— Amanda Rivkin (@amandarivkin) October 5, 2021

Lincoln and Booth would have parted amicably, too, had he missed.

sic semper tyrannis!!
and do have a good night, stay safe out there folks

El pobre!

Senate Republicans are going to cave on the filibuster over the debt ceiling. This is what Schumer and Biden want and then it'll build pressure on Manchin to cave on more since the GOP caved.

— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) October 5, 2021

not sure I trust his expert political analysis

Cave, man

Some progress, I suppose:

In a virtual meeting with about a dozen liberal Democrats on Monday, Biden suggested a range of $1.9 trillion to $2.2 trillion, according to people with knowledge of the private discussion — significantly lower than his initial $3.5 trillion plan.

Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), leader of the influential Congressional Progressive Caucus, pushed back, according to three of the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. She countered with a minimum spending amount of $2.5 trillion, saying a range from that figure to $2.9 trillion could cover key programs.

Still, the gap between the $2.2 trillion maximum offered by Biden and the $2.5 trillion minimum suggested by Jayapal represents a striking narrowing of differences from just last week.

Meanwhile, the action at the Sinema/Manchin offices this afternoon:

https://c.tenor.com/BzdybKbJj7gAAAAd/moving-goalpost.gif

They’ve become Too Powerful. They’ll both be in Senate til they’re dead, just like Grassley & Feinstein

Senior Sinema

Senate Republicans are going to cave on the filibuster over the debt ceiling...

The whole metaphor of 'caving in' depends on the premise that the position taken by the person doing the caving in was both hollow at the core and insufficiently shored up against outside pressures. Where does Erickson think this insupportable pressure on the Senate Republicans is going to come from? Their guilty consciences?

Maybe they're next---after this:
https://www.npr.org/2021/10/05/1043424679/how-taylor-swift-and-her-masters-are-playing-into-the-virginia-race-for-governor

By midday, Democrats had yet to react to the proposal. With no solution in sight — and the days dwindling — the continued standoff threatened to ensnarl Washington in a financial crisis entirely of its own making.

“We’re not in the mood to facilitate their difficult job, to make their difficult job easier,” Sen. Kevin Cramer (R-N.D.) said in response to a question about Republicans’ strategy.

Asked what might happen if Schumer is correct — and Republicans’ procedural demands do prevent Congress from raising the debt ceiling by the Oct. 18 deadline — Cramer stressed that the blame remains squarely on the Democrats.

“Then too bad,” Cramer said. “It’s just really, really unfortunate that they’re that irresponsible.” He later said he did not think the country would breach the debt ceiling, adding, “I don’t think anybody wants that to happen.”

uuuugh Kevin Cramer, uuuuuugh

"Who, me, responsible for what happens in the Senate? No way! I'm just a US Senator."

Seems to me a good reason to blow up the f'n filibuster and then just do what they want.

the gaslighting is fucking off the charts here

“It’s just really, really unfortunate that they’re that irresponsible.”

=

"it'd be a terrible thing if someone you know ends up getting hurt. just a terrible thing. hope that doesn't happen, right?"

mobspeak

Both sides are playing coy hoping Sunday talk shows will repeat their talking points - "it's the Republicans' fault (even though we can do this pretty easily by taking the debt ceiling out of the purview of the filibuster)" is just as stupid as Cramer's line.

*50 white GOP men circle your house and light it on fire*

*48 democrats want to keep them from burning it down*
*2 democrats don't care about anyone but themselves*

but yes, blaming it on the people surrounding the house and trying to light it on fire is stupid

the problem is 190% the GOP's fault

and they'll do it again and again and again and again, and americans are too clueless to care. they don't even know what the problem is

Yes, they'll try to start the fire again and again. That we have a ruling party that's unwilling to pull the fire alarm and start the sprinkler system is also a problem, no?

You'll note that I didn't say they're morally equivalent or whatever, but Democrats' outright refusal to acknowledge that there are very simple solutions that don't require the consent of the party that doesn't control Congress indicates they also think voters are stupid.

it's a stupid and contrived situation, but it's worth noting that McConnell appears to be caving at least for the time being.

gearing up for that inevitable guy at the post-apocalyptic campfire, as we all grind up a bit more soles from some leather shoes we found into a nasty stew, who says "you know, actually both sides, the democrats and the republicans, were at fault..."

yes, both sides.

UGH = one unit of deserved shame

Democrats: UGH

Republicans: UGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGH

Of course the Republicans are worse. But too many Democrats are wedded to tradition and proceduralism and think most Americans genuinely care about bipartisanship.

If hacking each politician into two bloody halves is bipartisanship then count me in.

wedded to tradition and proceduralism

If you wield power effectively once, your voters might start expecting you to do so in the future - then how are you going to blame the Senate parliamentarian for not doing the stuff you don't really care about?

They only got to buy off 1/2 and then a few on the other side to win. All of them are compromised in one angle or another.

But hey maybe they all can joke about bipartisanship when the GQP internment camps start up around 2025.

Scoop: Bernie Sanders withheld support for a joint statement condemning last weekend's protests against Kyrsten Sinema because it also wouldn't include a rebuke of her political views, an email exchange leaked to @axios shows

Read excerpts of the emails—>https://t.co/qtJu5R03hN pic.twitter.com/QQkhlZa6Td

— Alayna Treene (@alaynatreene) October 7, 2021

Oh please mr booker, it's oh so shameful for democratic activists to follow her into a bathroom when she tried to run away and hide from them and wouldn't answer why she's so intent on blocking the programs that their president won his campaign on. Do you remember the republican activists actually shitting in the halls of congress earlier this year and not hearing your republican colleagues condemn that particular brand of bathroom activism?

Thing is, as I understand it, the person thst followed her was actually a republican

sounds like bernie sanders supports president biden on this one?

He has for a while. The progressive caucus has been more vocally supportive than the handful of so-called moderate opposition; it's also a species of pressure on the president.

Sanders has had enough, sounds like.

Obviously I want what is best for all of us in this country and world but if the universe just slides Sinema and Manchin out of public life so I don’t have to hear about them anymore, what a damn relief that would be.

(And yes, I know that they’d simply be replaced by now obstructions.)

BREAKING: Massive crowd of Indigenous-led climate activists arrive at the White House to confront @JoeBiden and demand an end to fossil fuels. #PeopleVsFossilFuels pic.twitter.com/52VmegENZ0

— People vs. Fossil Fuels (@FightFossils) October 11, 2021

i kind of forgot about scott brown. remember him? maybe you never forgot him.

i forgot that he was the very first senator (ex or current) to endorse trump, back in feb 2016. and i never knew that he was rewarded by being appointed ambassador to middle earth for the last 4 years. then he got himself appointed as the dean/chief moneymaker of a law school that gradually turned into a grift machine, then resigned 8 months later

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/10/which-one-of-you-did-this
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2019/11/and-the-grift-goes-on-scott-brown-and-new-england-law

Death cult assholes gonna death cult

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has issued an executive order banning all state entities, including private employers, from enforcing vaccine mandates https://t.co/nRFQBIPVUg

— CNN (@CNN) October 12, 2021

It's a pure troll move, because there is no way he can legally do that.

But in the meantime it does enough damage to not be inconsequential. I wish we'd stop with this whole "it's not legal anyway" hand waving, because troll move or no, this stuff does real damage until it eventually gets thrown out. He may be throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, but the people of Texas are still getting shit flung at them daily in the process.

^^My 9 year-old cousin just got Covid at their school because the district isn't encouraging masking for in-person classes.

I'm sorry to hear that. We recently had a close call at my 10 year-old's school, he avoided it (masks and distancing in schools work!) but three of his friends got COVID. Fortunately 2 of the 3 never had a single symptom and the other one only had a headache and a minor fever for a few days, but when kids in your kids' class get it, it hits home.

I'm kind of curious how the company I work for will respond to this. The CEO has been gently hinting that vaccine rules were coming soon.

electorally this is the right way to do it if you've got to do it

Pelosi said last night Ds will have do "fewer things well" in big bill

So I tried to pin her down on if that means they'll have to drop something, like Medicare expansion, paid leave, etc.

She said she hopes those stay and adds: "Mostly we would be cutting back on years" pic.twitter.com/15U2PlKICu

— Manu Raju (@mkraju) October 12, 2021

reeling them in, in fact

Holding them back, rather.

how is this going to work with airlines? this makes zero sense

t/f: progressives control the democratic party

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/10/progressives-control-the-democratic-party

xp https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/10/airlines-reject-texas-ban-on-vaccine-mandates-say-biden-order-takes-precedence/

American Airlines and Southwest Airlines said they will not comply with the Texas governor's ban on vaccine mandates, saying that the US vaccine mandate for federal contractors takes precedence. Both airlines are headquartered in Texas.

"We are reviewing the executive order issued by Gov. Abbott, but we believe the federal vaccine mandate supersedes any conflicting state laws, and this does not change anything for American," an American Airlines spokesperson told The Washington Post and other news organizations. Southwest said that "according to the president's executive order, federal action supersedes any state mandate or law, and we would be expected to comply with the president's order to remain compliant as a federal contractor," according to CNBC.

IBM, which is based in New York but has several large offices in Texas, will also follow the federal order instead of the one in Texas. "IBM is a federal contractor and must comply with federal requirements, which direct employees of federal contractors to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19 by December 8th or obtain a medical or religious accommodation," IBM told Bloomberg. "We will continue to protect the health and safety of IBM employees and clients, and we will continue to follow federal requirements."

lindsey has spotted somewhere between dozens and 40,000 extremely well-dressed Brazilians, and they're headed to Connecticut.

In an interview with Fox News’s Sean Hannity on Tuesday, Graham (R-S.C.) was critical of the administration’s order to halt large-scale immigration arrests at job sites, with plans for a new approach to target employers who pay substandard wages and engage in exploitative labor practices.

“Now, what [Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro] Mayorkas did today, calling off all the raids of worksite, is going to be another incentive for people to come, because the word is out,” Graham said. “You come, you claim asylum, you never leave. The policy choices of Biden are all over the world now.”

The senator, who recently visited the border in Arizona, added: “We had 40,000 Brazilians come through the Yuma Sector alone headed for Connecticut wearing designer clothes and Gucci bags. This is not economic migration anymore.”

“People see an open America,” he continued. “They’re taking advantage of us. And it won’t be long before a terrorist gets in this crowd.”

In an interview with The Washington Post on Wednesday, Graham elaborated on his comments.

“Usually when you go to the border, you see people who are dressed really haggardly and who look like they’ve been through hell,” he said. “This time at Yuma, there were dozens that looked like they were checking into a hotel — and smartly dressed.”

...Kevin Bishop, a spokesman for Graham, had defended the senator’s comments, citing what he saw during his recent trip to the border and news reports about Brazilian immigrants. Bishop also provided photographs of luggage and shoes taken at the border.

“They have had thousands of Brazilians coming through there,” he said. “As Senator Graham noted in Yuma, the luggage was nicer than his own.”

None of the luggage in the photos provided to The Post appeared to be Gucci. The most obvious clothing in the photos was a pair of fairly clean Puma tennis shoes without shoelaces.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/graham-immigration-brazil/2021/10/13/2abe389e-2c49-11ec-985d-3150f7e106b2_story.html

Lindsey sure knows what buttons to push. Brazilians, asylum seeking, never leaving, sneaky terrorists, nice luggage. If hordes of wealthy Austrians were entering the USA carrying nice luggage, I'm sure he'd be just as incensed at their taking advantage of Biden's craven open borders policies, right?

Were all these Brazilians with their fancy Gucci luggage stopping at the Waldorf to drop off their bags before heading to the "worksite?"

It's the 'making a political statement' equivalent of standing in the stoop of an apartment building and mass-pushing all the buzzers at once.

It's the typical word salad of talking points gobbled up from Tucker or Hannity.

I just noticed a brazilian blowdrying place open up a couple blocks away... what the hell is happening to our country?!

"new approach to target employers who pay substandard wages and engage in exploitative labor practices."

Here being the issue...rich people who pay people under the table don't like getting traffic tickets.

They can always hire MORE tomorrow, but fines cost real money and lawyer hours to get the charges dropped are expensive even if you have them on retainer.

Brazilians bringing their shameful waxing to these shores.

No one's made a "Blame It On Rio" reference yet!?!

We had 40,000 Brazilians come through the Yuma Sector alone headed for Connecticut wearing designer clothes and Gucci bags.

obviously these immigrants will never understand our culture

good morning!

Isn't lindsay one of the many elderly senators people say are showing cognitive decline? Not to excuse him of course he’s still beneath contempt.

Between waxing and blowdrying, these Brazilians will soon control all of our follicles

he's only in his mid sixties: plenty of time to catch a fatal disease and die.

We had 40,000 Brazilians come through the Yuma Sector alone headed for Connecticut wearing designer clothes and Gucci bags.

david roth on twitter said "this claim is so close to being a cuban linx-era raekwon lyric" and now i can only hear it in the chef's voice

is "yuma sector" anything other than a borders patrol / ICE designation? how creepy to be in front of a national audience and use these jargony terms as if everyone knew them (on hannity, they probably did). it's like, we're all looking at the border as a series of military sectors and migrants as enemy invaders, right? how is Sector 7-URF doing? what about 7-URF, LINDSEY

the 40,000 brazilians with gucci bags sounds like a lindsey graham version on the 30-50 feral hogs meme to me

Now Get This!
We feed the lies to the graham
And the graham to the hann
And get the gucci bags for nothing!

Braz-ill-i-Ans

I can’t think of any recent precedent for potential primary challenges to a sitting Senator. Anyone? Atrocious numbers. https://t.co/0IgHi3gDrt pic.twitter.com/DqvRJGKMfV

— Taniel (@Taniel) October 14, 2021

wait til she turns on her Sinemagic

i really do wish they'd list "anyone but sinema" as an option on polls like this

lolll Karl

i really do wish they'd list "anyone but sinema" as an option on polls like this

― typo hell #12: a hundreds of millions of people (Karl Malone), Thursday, October 14, 2021 12:10 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Not exactly that question, but approval/disapproval was 25/70 in the same poll.

yeah, but just to make it really explicit for the headlines

right. i think the reason pollsters don't waste a question on that is pretty much every politician loses to "anyone but this guy" because voters can imagine a candidate that doesn't exist.

25/70 is *insane* btw

T/S: the esteem of your constituents vs. the esteem of those sliding you envelopes filled with money in smokey backrooms

fun story about how she doesn't have any friends any more and seems to be deliberately commiting social suicide

"We'll put up the funds for your election campaign.
Oh, uh, waiter? Can you bring the champagne?"

forgot the url

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kyrsten-sinema-is-unfriending-her-network-into-oblivion?ref=home

She’s like the Kyrie Irving of the Senate, there’s no rhyme or reason to anything she’s doing unless she’s intentionally trying to make everyone dislike her

“It’s not effective to pressure me on anything,” she said. “Because I am a thoughtful person who takes a lot of time, deliberatively, to make decisions, once I’ve made a decision, I feel very comfortable with it. And it doesn’t matter what other people think.”

Good thing she doesn't represent people whose interests might diverge from her own.

Christ, she's such a cartoon villain at this point.

she also hasn't made a decision, or if she has, hasn't told anyone what decision she's made. unless that decision is "willfully obstruct this whole deal because i want to"

She's deliberating!

my impression is that she articulated some specific demands to the president but refuses to make those public because they would be extremely unpopular

imagine if she were extremely unpopular

if both bills somehow end up getting passed, I suspect a lot of her antics will be quickly forgotten. I imagine her dream scenario is getting a massively scaled back reconciliation bill that includes whatever shitty provisions she's angling for.

I'm guessing she does not want anything to pass or rather the person with the big check book does not want anything to pass.

She will run next time lose the Democratic primary and then run as an independent, possibly win and then be a heel and a pay to play for both sides.

"And it doesn’t matter what other people think" possibly the worst line I've ever heard from an elected official

it's hard to see her winning as an independent - Democrats hate her, do Republicans like her? I don't think so

her popularity with independents is also in freefall

no chance she wins as an indie, republicans will never vote for her over whatever creature the arizona republican party belches up, democrats won't forgive her if she tanks the biden presidency, and true moderates take up what, like 5% of the electorate?

she might be more likely to harm the republican party than the democratic party if she runs, at this rate

'You work three jobs? ... Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that.'

— President George W. Bush, to a divorced mother of three in Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005

'I actually did vote for the $87 billion, before I voted against it.'

— Sen. John Kerry, on voting against a military funding bill for U.S. troops in Iraq, March 19, 2004

'Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job.'

— President Bush, to FEMA director Michael Brown, while touring hurricane-ravaged Mississippi, Sept. 2, 2005

You work three jobs? ... Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that.'

omigod I love it

i had never heard that one before. found on this listicle: https://www.liveabout.com/dumbest-political-quotes-of-all-time-4083793

TBF, he probably just assumed she meant that she sat on the board of three large corporations.

She's deliberating!

― Donald Fhtagen (Old Lunch), Thursday, October 14, 2021 12:08 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I honestly misread this as she's debilitating!

She's defibrillating.

She’s like the Kyrie Irving of the Senate, there’s no rhyme or reason to anything she’s doing unless she’s intentionally trying to make everyone dislike her

ppl keep making these references on different threads - is she a Real Housewife or s/t?

Kyrie Irving? An NBA star that is famously anti-vaccine right now and, apparently a flat-earther.

at least we know where he stands

U.S. Senator Kyrsten Sinema, a key moderate, told fellow Democrats in the House of Representatives this week that she will not vote for a multitrillion-dollar package that is a top priority for President Joe Biden before Congress approves a $1 trillion infrastructure bill, according to a source briefed on the meeting.

I think this is really about not wanting anything stepping on her special day of getting a bill with her name on it passed

Kyrie Irving? An NBA star that is famously anti-vaccine right now and, apparently a flat-earther.

― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, October 14, 2021 1:58 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

more than that he just has no real coherent positions on anything nor does his internal logic make any sense but he's willing to throw away his career on it

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-falling-poll-numbers-georgia/2021/10/10/3606c99e-2002-11ec-8200-5e3fd4c49f5e_story.html

This seems bad.

a bill saying a senator can't be hung by their own party in the senate house peut etre? etre de poot.

Earlier this year, the feds signed an agreement that let Boeing executives off the hook for the 737 MAX catastrophes, which killed 346 people.

The lead prosecutor, Erin Nealy Cox, then took a job with the firm that leads Boeing's criminal defense.
https://t.co/UPYw5K8sDd pic.twitter.com/oQ1h8wiPV1

— Mike Baker (@ByMikeBaker) October 15, 2021

seems legit

sometimes opportunities come whee you least expect them!

where

dunno if I'd make too much of Biden's poll numbers yet, shit changes quick and people are pretty frustrated rn with Delta & the two folks literally holding up everything

re that WaPo story about Georgia, Warnock is not at much risk of losing his Senate seat in 2022 because Stacey Abrams will be on the same ticket running for governor

people are pretty frustrated rn with Delta & the two folks literally holding up everything

Well yes, this is basically the Biden flack's quote about how everything will be fine if he can get done all the things that aren't being done. Does the future hold any promise on this? Voting rights is dead, they caved on police reform, Sinema's holding the line on no tax increases and scuttling the reconciliation bill, they had to kick the can down the road on the debt ceiling despite controlling Congress, anything that does pass isn't going to be felt by Nov. 2022.

right

Democrats? Shit the bed? Again? You don't say.

Do we have a thread dedicated to strikes in the US?

Last September someone started a Rolling Labor Actions thread.

updated yesterday:

Rolling Labor Action Thread

Thank you!

NEW: Sen. Manchin has told the White House the child tax credit must include a firm work requirement and family income cap in the $60k range, Axios has learned.

These demands would dramatically weaken one of Biden's signature programs. https://t.co/ZL5PHUfpBY

— Axios (@axios) October 17, 2021

Did Axios learn Biden's reply?

President Biden to police officers: "I believe with all my heart there's nothing you're unable to do if we equip you, that we can unite this nation and fight our common foes: anger, resentment, hatred." pic.twitter.com/h1ojWcAfy4

— The Hill (@thehill) October 16, 2021

Beginning when I was about 12 years old, whenever my mother stopped our station wagon at an intersection and saw a law enforcement officer on the street corner, I was taught to get out of the car, approach the officer, shake their hand, and say “Thank you.” pic.twitter.com/NZFI4phacc

— Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas (@SecMayorkas) October 17, 2021

the populist proposals that biden wanted to make the legacy of his presidency are not happening.

i doubt it's just manchin and sinema blocking it. not to be conspiratorial, but they are likely the designated "fall guys."

for me, the single issue is making life more affordable for the working class of the country. giving opportunity to those who are made to feel marginalized, hopeless, including people who have been incarcerated. this population has a very hard time getting on their feet and feeling like they can be part of society. this is an example of the fundamental cruelty at the heart of our system.

i could go on and on about the kafkaesque nightmare that is the "american dream." these days, if you want to follow the rules and get ahead and don't have family help, you end up burdened with crippling college debt for life. we are all under the boot heels of the ownership class.

however, i don't make decisions here. americans do not feel the way i do. they do not feel the way the house progressive caucus does. even though these proposals "poll well," i suspect this is an illusion. talking to people, they are mostly just worried that the "wrong people" will benefit from compassionate policies. the myth of the undeserving poor is so fundamental to american culture it's impossible to overstate. sinema knows this, the senate democrats know this, and biden might even know it. we will continue to grind people up and spit them out and maintain a society of mutual distrust and paranoia and insanity because that is the american way.

i'm going to try to find individual causes that i can contribute to and i'll stay active in my union and whatever, but overall i think we just need to get used to this. an issue like housing security for instance. no one gives a shit that housing is unaffordable.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/16/opinion/pramila-jayapal-infrastructure.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytopinion

Just envisioning the Mayorkas family station wagon stopped in the intersection, the light's turned green, everybody's honking and yelling, little Alex still standing on the corner pumping the fist of an increasingly aggrieved parking cop

we will continue to grind people up and spit them out and maintain a society of mutual distrust and paranoia and insanity because that is the american way.

i basically agree with this. we can and should mitigate against it as much as we can, but this is "who we are" and it's why americans distrust democrats (or why democrats run on one thing and do another), and why republicans can just be completely full of shit but seem authentic because they accurately represent american values.

good morning!

the kind of shift in values that would need to happen in order for something more substantive to change isn't going to come from national politics as presently constituted imo. xp

Maybe if space aliens invaded we could get the hospital bills waived and they would let people live in the empty houses and apartments? Maybe

New - Biden told House progressives tuition-free community college is out of package, per multiple sources. Child tax credit won’t go as far as some would like — likely a 1-yr extension. Home health care likely less than $250B. Dems had wanted $400B. Climate change still a debate

— Manu Raju (@mkraju) October 19, 2021

What a fucking waste this has all been

Has it?

I didn't fucking want this old prune as president, but I also didn't expect a Senate majority. The Senate majority is a 50-50 phenomenon. If we get a $1.2 trillion or whatever it is bill that's more than I expected from this lot. I've convinced myself Congress has gone so many years without, you know, legislating that its muscles have atrophied, so I'm not minding the delays yet. Twitter culture makes it hard not to detach, though.

If Biden signs a bill that Sanders and Jayapal are happy with, I'd be comfortable. What worries me now are sunset provisions.

it's been a pile of garbage

Putting aside the Beltway press hyperventilation about Sinema-Manchin as a Trojan horse for other reluctant members, it's really this minority against a majority of the House-Senate. It's really not PROGRESSIVES VS MODERATE, it's the majority of House-Senate members against this preening minority.

I'm curious what y'all thought you'd get from this president and this Senate majority. That we're getting a bill over a trillion dollars -- one, I hope, without too many sunset provisions and other limited lifespans -- was unexpected for me in November when I hoped to elect a president who wasn't Trump. Did you really have audacity of hope in February?

oh, i don't mean garbage in terms of what should be expected. 50-50 + the existence of manchin and sinema = pile of garbage. we were all joking about it from the night of the election, how manchin would control everything. i hadn't thought about it, until that night. and then thought - makes sense. here we are

remember those Biden-FDR comparisons? lol. With this Senate and this president? Although I'm sure he would've signed the
Humphrey–Hawkins Full Employment Act if handed to him.

I admit I let my expectations get a little high this spring. I was counting on Biden's better rapport with a Democratic Congress than Obama's (he pretty famously didn't like to schmooze) getting out by something bolder through.

-out-

it's disappointing but politics is compromise which was exactly why sanders was shooting so high. the unfortunate thing is that compromises never make everyone happy. but if they weren't shooting high, imagine what we would have gotten.

But we still haven't gotten much of anything! The delays are making it harder to see any future success and making it feel more likely that this administration will be seen as a failure. At this point, they should just pass something

Pretty sure "something" will pass.

good morning!

Two problems:

(1) Several legislators and Biden don't understand the moment of crisis.

(2) Because Dems are now a true coalition party in that they represent everyone NOT a fascist, the structural deficiencies imposed by the Constitution empower the most reactionary factions.

One's personal expectations of Biden (a senescent crook) don't make the outcomes any less poor. "One trillion" doesn't mean much when most of it can (and will) be undone by the 2023-24 GOP House and it fails to make structural changes in the face of inequality and climate catastrophe. This was their one chance to switch the tracks on the trolley line and they've blown it.

We're going to make it through half of Biden's meaningful Presidency and he won't even have bothered to reschedule weed.

At least he's not Bush/at least he's not Dubya/at least he's not Trump-ing our way into the apocalypse.

Almost six whole quarters of our next military budget!

your response is that he is a senescent crook, ok

this is a country dominated by republicans, even with a democratic majority, and is sliding into autocracy.

I think that the presidential election in 2024 will show us that democracy in the US is basically over

your response is that he is a senescent crook, ok

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/biden-delaware-way-graft/

I'm not thrilled, either, but I'm honestly not sure what Biden personally is supposed to have done to pass a better bill. There's this fantasy that he could've been strong-arming Joe Manchin behind closed doors; I just don't know what that would actually look like in order to be effective, or whether a president temperamentally different from Biden could make it work in the face of Manchin's incentives.

Putting aside the Beltway press hyperventilation about Sinema-Manchin as a Trojan horse for other reluctant members, it's really this minority against a majority of the House-Senate… it's the majority of House-Senate members against this preening minority.

Get here if you can!

honestly as long as it's somewhat good on climate I'll consider it a big win

xp wasn’t part of Biden’s message that he would be singularly able to convince moderates and Republicans to get on board and do what was best for the country? Obviously that was bullshit and you would have to be a moron/not have paid attention to the last 20 years of politics to believe it for a second but he did make that argument.

Look they’re tackling the important stuff, the minimum wage will have to wait.

The House Foreign Affairs Committee is marking up a bill this week to sanction whoever “directed or carried out” Havana syndrome attacks lol

— aída chávez (@aidachavez) October 19, 2021

Pretty sure "something" will pass.

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, October 19, 2021 8:47 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

me, after a few pints

"The Democrats struggling and fighting for a full year to pass a bill that mostly makes ineffective pre-existing programs more complicated and harder to access" is one of those outcomes that's obviously funny but also very difficult to laugh at. https://t.co/xOMIIY6tV6

— David Roth (@david_j_roth) October 19, 2021

Interesting

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/new-public-defenders-joe-biden-quietly-makes-history-courts-n1281787?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm&fbclid=IwAR1Bs0_Jed-qN4YOQJFf0p0E0NFAp00tcvEdhQjaY9GLOw5ZlIbl3rglAwY

Sorry, sic

So I’m finally listening to the Revolutions podcast about the French revolution and it is very interesting to hear about about how desperately pre-Revolutionary France needed reform but the system was structurally incapable of making any effective change.

Makes ya think, donit?

Let them eat NFTs

yeah, but out of that difficult situation came modern day France!! it was all worth it, right?

right

as i understand it, after napoleon was finally defeated, he continued to lead france until the middle of WW2, when he was sacked and replaced with de Gaulle. also some colonialism in there

I'd take current France over current US easy.

i've never been to europe :(

that's why i don't know the history :(

i hear in europe that they have these really nice breakfast nooks tho

If you've been to Epcot, you've been to Europe.

epcot was one of my very first memories (grew up in jacksonville til i was 3)

is this epcot, is this europe, or neither?

https://i.imgur.com/mhjPiN3.jpg

https://www.reddit.com/r/WaltDisneyWorld/comments/gqx2pz/saw_this_and_thought_spaceship_earth_had_caught/ - neither. 1976 fire in Montreal.

hmm. ok, in that case. i think the answer is europe

i mean france

Tu me brises le coeur, Karl.

Just to echo some of what has already been said here, it is hard to imagine leaders being more out of touch with the populace they ostensibly serve and the crisis conditions so many are living in.

But I also want to propose that a large part of this is because of Protestant cultures and hierarchies of work that are deeply ingrained in this country. In essence, the crisis is with the entire way that our society is structured, and because these absolute assholes have mostly unjustly benefited from these structures, they just don't care how they've failed the rest of us.

Blah blah this country is doomed, still glad I didn't vote for this sentient raisinfucker

Le plus difficile, c'est que je dois me fier à google translate, parce que... vous ne le croiriez pas, mais mon français est horrible, juste le pire.

My French has deteriorated. Fortunately, my kissing hasn't.

but one thing i know is i don't remember ever voting on whether we were switching from freedom fries back to french fries, and i support american freedom

I don’t buy the Protestant explanation, many of the most egalitarian nations in the world are deeply Protestant.

Sometimes the absolute assholes are just that, absolute assholes.

You're wrong.

Perhaps you've missed the enormous number of articles about people quitting their jobs recently, but there's a serious problem with the way that we view work in the US, and part of it stems from a deeply Protestant ethic of labor.

I mean, Max Weber wrote a book on it more than 100 years ago ffs.

i believe it's the white evangelicals that are the problem, not the protestants. there is a certain puritanical pulse that runs through our culture that can be seen as deriving from protestant influence, but the ugly stuff is white evangelical. there is something very wrong with them, and they benefit enormously from being a religion, because that's seen as above criticism by so many people, rather as a really fucked up giant organization that controls the social policies of a fascist political party

hey guys

many Catholics suck too

But evangelicalism stems directly from Calvinism, a strain of Protestant thinking.

Marilynne Robinson has written a couple fascinating essays rescuing Calvin and Calvinism from themselves.

(Neither here nor there though)

evangelicalism is a branch of protestantism, yes. but the white evangelical problem is a special and unique one in the united states. i don't see this same theocratic political poison spewing from evangelical movements elsewhere, at least not a scale comparable to our own.

see, like marilynne robinson, bill mckibben. these are cool protestants. where are the cool white evangelicals?

all i want for christmas is my two cool white evangelicals

Can we be shown cool white evangelicals + Mike Love?

Perhaps you've missed the enormous number of articles about people quitting their jobs recently, but there's a serious problem with the way that we view work in the US, and part of it stems from a deeply Protestant ethic of labor.

― I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Wednesday, October 20, 2021 1:27 PM (sixteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Well the birthplace of Calvinism offers twice the amount of paid leave and free health care.

Elizabeth Anderson had some good stuff about how Weber’s philosophy does not align with Americans working conditions.

on a very simplified level, it's evangelicals who want to blow up the constitution and turn the country into a theocratic hellscape, and mainstream protestants who want to take some good ideas and means test them into oblivion because so we don't undermine the concept of "work"

fwiw, Calvin died in 1564. It is 2021. Any influence his thinking has over our modern US evangelical sects is extremely tenuous and has passed through dozens of filters, been half-forgotten, adapted, and re-adapted. For example, I don't think such craziness as speaking in tongues has the slightest connection to Calvin's thought, but it is a conspicuous feature among our fundamentalist loonies.

Mandated vaccine in my workplace due in a month and a half. Several managers are going to retire rather than get the jab, and some factory workers will quit or retire. Rip off the bandaid, leave now! But I think the next month and a half will be their chance to vent about government injustice daily, and not to be missed. I don't get leaving a career at a well-paying company on this issue, but hey, if that's the hill they want to die on...

every person faces a test, the first time they're in the midst of a congregation with multiple people speaking in tongues at the same time. you have to figure out how to act, and there isn't time. you either at least nod along to it or you leave afterward and never come back. you can gyrate between those poles for a while but not for long. it is not a simple decision, which is why it is very fucked up to make children do it while they're still learning not to shit their pants

https://wallup.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/162408-calvin-and-hobbes-comics.jpg

To defend VHS (for once) I think he was referring to the Nordic countries, which are (nominally) Lutheran. Although their post-war social democracies also coincided(?) with an extreme drop in church attendance and religious belief...

We're not talking about those countries, tho, and this country was settled by persecuted religious extremists who enjoyed persecuting others, which has ultimately set the tone for how things have gone since then.

this country was settled by persecuted religious extremists who enjoyed persecuting others

Yeah, like those Quakers in Pennsylvania. It's all gotten much more complicated since 1750 or thereabouts.

Cue “American Protestantism isn’t Christianity, it’s the worship of white supremacy, ego and capital.”

Quakers had no problem killing and stealing from the Lenape.

INteresting reading about Quakers in Ibram X Kendi's Stamped too. Them being slavers too who were working against abolition initially.

& the Mayflower passengers were a bunch of self righteous drama queens who thought puritanism wasn't strict enough in England so went to Holland to be more extreme and then headed to the US to be even more sanctimonious innit

they couldn't quite explain it, they'd always just
goooonnnnne
theeeeerrrre

I don't know if this thread is the right one to discuss this or not and I'm genuinely still not sure what to make out of the whole "Havana Syndrome" thing (though I'm leaning closest to believing there is some very stupid, benign reason for this and not some evil super genius' ray gun), but I will say the rabid insistence of people online that it's completely made up and that sufferers are too dumb to realize when they have a hangover is kind of gross. It just feels all too familiar to the years and years of telling (mostly women!) that their Lyme disease symptoms were all in their heads. Idk, I just feel like we can search for more rational explanations outside the realm of science fiction without insinuating that every single sufferer is just making shit up.

Part of the issue with the US and many (not all) settler colonies is that it was settled by people who were persecuted, who then took that as justification to persecute others. The pattern continues in many of these settler colonies today.

Re: Havana Syndrome, hasn't it come out that it was "crickets"?

https://www.businessinsider.com/secret-2018-state-dept-report-havana-syndrome-noise-crickets-2021-10

I will say the rabid insistence of people online that it's completely made up and that sufferers are too dumb to realize when they have a hangover is kind of gross

My heart bleeds for CIA bureaucrats. Saying that it's mass hysteria is not the same as saying sufferers are "making shit up."

There is no magic headache ray.

you've never met my father in law

xxpost https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeXZSVkU8AAOfzn.jpg

(And I mean, there's no evidence of "chronic Lyme" either.)

lol I should have known better than to attempt anything that could even remotely be considered sympathetic for bureaucrats. but to be clear I am reacting very specifically to the tweets I’ve seen this week that straight up quote the “sufferers” from various articles saying literally “they are making this shit up” or “morons don’t know what a hangover is”.

I also thought the crickets things was only explaining a few incidences and was ruled out for other regions where cases were reported.

I don’t disagree that mass hysteria is part of it, but I also think the dismissiveness of people’s suffering can quickly get gross. America has a long history of doing just that.

But by all means milo, dunk away since you have such an axe to grind against me.

???

This may be the only thing milo and I ever agree on, but I also think "Havana Syndrome" is bullshit and media-driven mass hysteria.

dismissiveness of people’s suffering

creating and dismissing suffering is the lifeblood of the cia higher ups who have headaches now

what about all the headaches the CIA has given us? Eh?

We're not talking about those countries, tho, and this country was settled by persecuted religious extremists who enjoyed persecuting others, which has ultimately set the tone for how things have gone since then.

― I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Wednesday, October 20, 2021 3:33 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

That's what happened throughout the Americas, I do not believe the catholics really have been more progressive. I understand we are not talking about these other countries, but how come Canada, which a has very strong presence of Protestant ethics and culture, same for a whole bunch of other countries, have managed to be much more progressive than the US, then? What explains it? I just think the answer lies elsewhere. People have pointed out at a particular brand of evangelism and I already I personally find it a little more precise.

xp - milo, I'm annoyed because you seem to be taking a minor point of my post and attaching me for it, completely ignoring the larger point I was trying to make. You seem to do that, to me very specifically, at an alarming and almost worrying consistency.

Regardless of whatever Havana syndrome is or isn't, I was simply trying to say that it's absolutely gross to see anyone dismiss people's symptoms as "hysterical" or "made up", even if this is a media driven frenzy. It makes it too easy for more people, esp women and POC, to have their symptoms written off and ignored. That's all I meant.

"attacking"

I agree with the sentiment Jon, there's also been dismissal of symptoms wrt to low wage workers and mental health sufferers, and it's never a pleasant sight. But I can't say I didn't laugh at “morons don’t know what a hangover is”.

how come Canada, which a has very strong presence of Protestant ethics and culture, same for a whole bunch of other countries, have managed to be much more progressive than the US, then? What explains it?

Weed, iirc

xp - milo, I'm annoyed because you seem to be taking a minor point of my post and attaching me for it, completely ignoring the larger point I was trying to make. You seem to do that, to me very specifically, at an alarming and almost worrying consistency.

"Havana Syndrome" is little different from people who develop Stanky Leg Syndrome after getting their Pfizer vaccine and start gofundmes for it - dismissing a made-up syndrome (which exists to further ulterior motives - the gofundme vs. everything the CIA and American foreign services do + getting extra $$$ from Congress) is not dismissing someone else's entirely valid illness. And as I said, it's not even dismissing the (alleged, oft-changing) symptoms, but the syndrome itself and everything that's being ginned up around it.

People joking about CIA flacks being too stupid to recognize a hangover are making a joke based on the assumption that the people in question are bad people who spend their lives doing bad things so who cares if they have a headache. If that's not your attitude toward the American intelligence state, this POV will be incomprehensible.

Canada is not that much more progressive than the US.

People joking about CIA flacks being too stupid to recognize a hangover are making a joke based on the assumption that the people in question are bad people who spend their lives doing bad things so who cares if they have a headache. If that's not your attitude toward the American intelligence state, this POV will be incomprehensible.

I don't disagree that CIA flacks are generally bad people, however, I also don't like to see the normalization and cheering on of dismissing/ignoring symptoms of people suffering from something that feels legitimate and very real to them. You laughing at it because it is happening to pawns of the American war state now just makes is easier for the next group to be dismissed, which is a lot less funny when it's an already marginalized group being told their symptoms are mass hysteria.

xpost I don't know I think you would like living in Quebec.

I mean, this weapon that America has used as yet another tool to marginalize women and POC for decades is funny now because it's happening to CIA spooks is not exactly the stance I want to take.

I don't disagree that CIA flacks are generally bad people, however, I also don't like to see the normalization and cheering on of dismissing/ignoring symptoms of people suffering from something that feels legitimate and very real to them.

You could say this about literally any fucking thing. I am reminded of the parody newspaper headline "World Destroyed In Nuclear Exchange - Women, Minorities Hardest Hit".

are we also not allowed to laugh at cops who have panic attacks after touching fentanyl

if Havana Syndrome is “real”, then there is a 99.9% chance it’s an invention of our own security state, being deployed on their own unsuspecting employees to justify budgets and very existence.

if it’s the 0.1% scenario and it is actually Cuba or China or Iran or whomever we’re antagonizing this week—and we somehow can’t get to the bottom of it after the trillions of dollars we’ve wasted just this century while people go without healthcare or food or housing, then
a) GOOD, and
b) shut it all down because clearly don’t deserve to be a globe-bestriding empire any longer

From: Kamala Harris

Look ______,

These are DARK days. But there's still HOPE. Give $5 in the next 25 MINUTES, and you'll be added to our petition asking PRESIDENT CARLSON to SHUT DOWN the camps and entered into a raffle for dinner with CAMILA CABELLO!

Can we count on YOU?

— Osita Nwanevu (@OsitaNwanevu) October 20, 2021

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/10/senator-joe-manchin-democratic-party-exit-plan-biden-infrastructure-deal-exclusive/

can somebody please just bribe this guy???

I should've said: I'm not sure I'm buying that story. Manchin voted to impeach Trump. Twice. The party would never accept him, not even to stick it to Schumer and Biden.

otoh

MANCHIN to @burgessev and me on the report he is threatening to leave the Democratic Party if his demands are not met on infrastructure: “I can’t control rumors and it’s bullshit, bullshit spelled with a B, U, L, L, capital ‘B’”: pic.twitter.com/ex8iHMIiSs

— Frank Thorp V (@frankthorp) October 20, 2021

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/6e69ce0b-7fb1-48b6-a8e0-fb438dd304fe

I mean, this weapon that America has used as yet another tool to marginalize women and POC for decades is funny now because it's happening to CIA spooks is not exactly the stance I want to take.

― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:32 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think the point is mostly to reiterate how edgy and cool it is to dismiss CIA workers and I wouldn't take it personally.

b) shut it all down because clearly don’t deserve to be a globe-bestriding empire any longer

I mean, I think this could be said regardless, without any qualifiers tbh.

BULLBshit

but how come Canada, which a has very strong presence of Protestant ethics and culture, same for a whole bunch of other countries, have managed to be much more progressive than the US, then?

If you honestly believe that Canada is a bastion of progressivism, then I can't take anything you say seriously, fwiw.

are we also not allowed to laugh at cops who have panic attacks after touching fentanyl

That's not even comparable though, that's just born out of sheer stupidity and will always be hilarious.

Quakers had no problem killing and stealing from the Lenape.

― I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Wednesday, October 20, 2021 3:44 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

INteresting reading about Quakers in Ibram X Kendi's Stamped too. Them being slavers too who were working against abolition initially.

& the Mayflower passengers were a bunch of self righteous drama queens who thought puritanism wasn't strict enough in England so went to Holland to be more extreme and then headed to the US to be even more sanctimonious innit

― Stevolende, Wednesday, October 20, 2021 4:00 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is one of the best things in Mason & Dixon, how the ideals/rhetoric of the enlightenment in this country didn't exactly match the reality, especially with regard to indigenous people and Africans.

jvc, while I understand your frustration in this conversation, I just don't really understand why you're so concerned about these people who are, by dint of their job alone, objectively *bad* people.

https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/saving-calvin

I'll pass. Most overrated writer of the past hundred years, afaic.

I think the point is mostly to reiterate how edgy and cool it is to dismiss CIA workers and I wouldn't take it personally.

Big Cops Are Workers Too energy

And I know that's a controversial opinion.

I hate her prose, dislike her characters, and think her bullshit about returning to the Bible can get stuffed.

That's not even comparable though, that's just born out of sheer stupidity and will always be hilarious.

Why isn't it comparable though? Or, for that matter, the post-vaccine Stanky Leg as I referred to earlier?

https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/saving-calvin

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:14 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

thanks for the link Alfred!

ODing from being within six feet of fentanyl is as believable as a magic ray weapon that's only used against CIA apparatchiks.

If you honestly believe that Canada is a bastion of progressivism, then I can't take anything you say seriously, fwiw.

― I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:09 PM (fourteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Progressive enough for table isn't the same as not progressive, compare Canada to most nations in the world and you'll find it to be rather progressive despite its many flaws (of which I'm certain I am more aware of than you), and that there is a general consensus by actual experts on those metrics. Perhaps not coincidentally, the countries that rank above are usually also historically dominated by protestant culture.

...

CIA workers

How else is the CIA going to get the funding for their own invisible death ray?

i'm cia worker-class

ok, maybe middle-upper cia worker class

we will be putting out a gofundme, raising funds is tough but necessary!!

I think the point is mostly to reiterate how edgy and cool it is to dismiss CIA workers and I wouldn't take it personally.

fabulous stuff

i haven't given a dime to any cause in 33 years because a part of me died with the end of the reagan presidency, but i will dig deep and give $10 to the cia blue lives matter division, the ones that support our underfunded police officers and foreign intelligence efforts

i don't know what they do at the CIA, i just heard it was cool to make fun of them

Black Site Local 472

god bless, karl malone!

signed,
CIA workers

they analyze the evidence and come up with theories. there is a lot of drinking that goes on. everyone wears shades. it's definitely full of independent thinkers

Perhaps not coincidentally, the countries that rank above are usually also historically dominated by protestant culture.

Okay, if you're going to be such a Captain-Save-a-Protestant Western Chauvinist, then what distinguishes the US strains of Protestantism that makes it so uniquely FUCKED?

You know where some of the most repressive places on the planet are? Places that PROTESTANT COLONIZED after ENSLAVING THE POPULATION

what is the official ranking we're using btw

Pazz & Jop points

This argument definitely needs a top 10 best countries list so we can get some context

VHS started it, let him finish it.

or, rather, them. sorry to presume gender, apologies.

Okay, if you're going to be such a Captain-Save-a-Protestant Western Chauvinist, then what distinguishes the US strains of Protestantism that makes it so uniquely FUCKED?

― I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:47 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Parallel to any religious activity, I believe an uniquely american strain of racism has developed and has been the cause for most of the country's inequality and lack of welfare policies. The uniquely american strain, in my opinion and this is a discussion and I'll be glad to be corrected, has nothing to do with religion because other religious communities have fully participated in the racism and inequality and continue to do so. Not only that, but protestant figures have been at the forefront for civil rights of course. Also, abolitionism has a much stronger history within protestant circles than within the Catholic church.

I just don't see it for Protestantism. French catholics were coercive too when they arrived in Acadia and Haiti. Spanish catholics were maybe even worse.

personally i base any list of countries on what kind of tax benefits they will give me for investing my crypto in that beautiful land

Those are the true progressives

why does only the good protestantism count

Or the bad for that matter?

there is a separate northern ireland to help people who don't understand directions, something the protestants did because they are generous

VHS, my earlier posts were talking about "work" and the way Protestant and puritan ethics of "work" being tied to one's "worth" in a society have helped contribute greatly to problems in the US. This is not up for debate, afaic— it's a fact.

there are many lutherans in namibia because it became popular on its own

VHS, my earlier posts were talking about "work" and the way Protestant and puritan ethics of "work" being tied to one's "worth" in a society have helped contribute greatly to problems in the US. This is not up for debate, afaic— it's a fact.

― I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table), Wednesday, October 20, 2021 7:05 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

The notion that work is tied to one's worth is disseminated throughout the world (because of colonialism as your rightly pointed) and yet the US seems to be only nation to be unable to bring about proper a welfare state on par with these other nations. I just don't think it's the variable.

I agree with jvc re Havana Syndrome.

It is unclear whether in this scenario Manchin would end up caucusing with the Democrats, which would allow them to continue to control the Senate, or side with the Republicans and place the Senate in GOP hands. In either event, he would hold great sway over this half of Congress...But he was encouraged by the conversations with Sanders and top Democrats that occurred at the start of the week and did not yet see a reason to take this step. Still, he has informed associates that because he is so out of sync with the Democratic Party, he believes it is likely he will leave the party by November 2022.

This part seems more and more plausible, although of course it would even w out the tale of leavin':

Manchin has repeatedly said he has a significant philosophical difference with most of his fellow Democrats. He has told reporters that he believes major programs in the Build Back Better bill would move the United States toward an “entitlement mentality” and that he cannot accept that. In a recent meeting with Biden, Manchin told the president that he sees government as a partner with the public not the ultimate provider, according to people who heard the senator’s account of the conversation. He explained to the president that in his view Biden didn’t win the presidency last year by championing progressive proposals, and he pressed the president to recall his campaign promise to bring people together. He also reminded Biden that he has vowed not to support any package unless it contains the Hyde Amendment, which bans the use of federal funds to pay for abortions, except in cases of incest or when the life of the mother is at risk.
...Manchin told associates that he is hopeful a compromise that creates an overall framework for the bill can be reached by the end of this week—but at no more than the $1.75 trillion he supports. He has said that he believes if a deal is not attained on the social infrastructure package, he expects to be blamed and receive a ton of criticism.

Manchin’s press secretary did not respond to a request for comment.

UPDATE: After this article was published, reporters questioned Manchin about it. He replied, “I can’t control rumors, and it’s bullshit, bullshit spelled with a B, U, L, L, capital B.” Mother Jones stands by the story.

yes this was the response

MANCHIN to @burgessev and me on the report he is threatening to leave the Democratic Party if his demands are not met on infrastructure: “I can’t control rumors and it’s bullshit, bullshit spelled with a B, U, L, L, capital ‘B’”: pic.twitter.com/ex8iHMIiSs

— Frank Thorp V (@frankthorp) October 20, 2021

all of us lower-case bullshitters are feeling a little hurt by that but ok

Curious to know what Manchin's response is to reports that he may become a republican

scroll up

Too difficult, guess I'll never know

Re mention of dark money in this, I'm thinking the effort to discredit science as well as gov is, among other things, about preparation for further opposing efforts to deal with climate disruption--
When Nick Lawyer, a physician assistant in Sanders County, Mont. was asked by local leaders to take on the voluntary position of county public health officer, it felt like the right thing to do to serve his community in a crisis.

"I kind of think I was one of the few who expressed any interest in the position who had any reasonable qualifications for the job," Lawyer says.
...Little did he know, those qualifications would soon become a mark on him in the eyes of some local activists.
Things came to a head for Nick Lawyer in Sanders County when he penned an op-ed for several small town newspapers in the region in which he urged people to get the life saving vaccines (only about 40% of the population in Sanders County is fully vaccinated today).

Angry confrontations and protests at local meetings followed. It appeared there was a coordinated campaign of harassment targeted at him.

"It's really disappointing that these people who I've cared for, these people whose kids I've coached suddenly decided that I'm sort of outsider," Lawyer says.

Lawyer grew up in Sanders County. His family goes back five generations. He and his wife are also serve on local boards and he coaches in the schools. Today, he also works in the same hospital his mom once did.

"To see this fraction of our community become so vocally hostile towards me and my family, to threaten my wife and my wife's business, it's really disappointing," he says.

It all came to a dramatic, troubling crescendo in September after an elderly local activist spoke at a county meeting, angry and grieving, saying his 82-year-old wife had died from COVID. He reportedly called Lawyer a "petty tyrant."

"I never met her," Lawyer says. "I actually never provided her any care. But her husband blames me for her death saying that I put up barriers to her receiving unproven measures like ivermectin and other treatments."
fter that latest ruckus, county commissioners decided they couldn't do their business anymore because these activists were so loudly and frequently disrupting their meetings. So they asked for Lawyer to resign and he did.

"This is a very good example of where the bullies won," says Travis McAdam, an extremism expert at the Montana Human Rights Network.

McAdam says far right groups have developed a play book for how to disrupt public meetings and the lives of public health officials.

"They're using bullying, intimidation and harassment as political tools," he says.

Extremist group monitors like McAdam interviewed for this story say dark money groups are increasingly making all the training and social media tools readily available online. It's not so much that money is flowing into these communities or targeting certain races or positions, they say, it's more that groups such as those run by Ammon Bundy quickly send out text alerts or use Facebook groups to alert activists to mobilize across the rural Northwest.

"In most cases, no, it's not just a spontaneous thing where a hundred people all the sudden decide to go to the school board meeting that night," McAdam says.

Anti government militants like Ammon Bundy started recruiting and organizing around lockdowns early on in the pandemic, seeking to capitalize on long held antigovernment sentiment against in rural areas.

Lately McAdam points out that Bundy and others have shifted strategy toward actually running for political office and trying to fill seats on health boards and other local organizations. In Sanders County, there are murmurs that one local Bundy sympathizer is making moves to try to take over Nick Lawyer's former health post.

"In some cases, people are much more afraid of their perceived government overreach than they are of the virus," says Diana Lachiondo, a former commissioner and health board officer in Ada County, Idaho.

Last December when she and other members on the state's Central Health District board expressed support for preventive measures like extending mask ordinances, they were confronted by an angry mob that tried to break into the building where the meeting was being held. Protesters also screamed, banged pots and played clips from Scarface outside Lachiondo's Boise home.

Today, she's worried qualified people will no longer step up to serve in these positions.
More here, transcript and stream/dl:
https://www.npr.org/2021/10/20/1047336966/organizing-on-social-media-covid-skeptics-drive-public-health-professionals-from

jvc, while I understand your frustration in this conversation, I just don't really understand why you're so concerned about these people who are, by dint of their job alone, objectively *bad* people.

Because the implication in this argument is that, as long as you view some subset of other as "objectively bad people", it's a-ok to completely throw basic decency and empathy out the window. And you don't have to spend more than five minutes glancing at American history to see why it's a really fucking awful idea to let people dictate the medical treatment of others by how "worthy" any particular subset might be.

Look I think we can all agree that the CIA is bad, no one itt needs to prove their leftist credentials to prove that point. But it grosses me out when people throw empathy out the window because it might accidentally get spent on someone they don't like. It's odious and deserves to be noted as such.

And let me reiterate, this is not coming from a place of "oh think of the feelings of the poor CIA agents". It's coming from a place of, "holy shit, this exact line of thinking has been twisted in some pretty horrifying ways through our country's history so maybe be careful".

But I know that I'm going to get blasted for finding this a hill worth fighting on, so be it.

Thanks jaymc, at least I know I'm not completely off base here.

xpost Oh yeah, and this is in Montana:
Starting last winter, when the COVID-19 vaccines were rolled out, Lawyer found himself in the crosshairs of what he calls a small, yet vocal group of extremists. He was surprised, because by then Montana's far right Governor Greg Gianforte had already overturned the state's mask mandate and the state's Republican controlled legislature had passed the only law in the nation banning private businesses from requiring their employees to get vaccinated.

"Although there was no mask mandate, there were no vaccine mandates, there were no health restrictions in our county, people still felt that their rights were being trampled on," Lawyer says.

Are they really all CIA.

Back to Manchin and the environment too, The Daily had a good discussion of RIP bill---"there's no version of i he will accept"---that is, not one that provides incentive, incl payments, to speed up transition from coal etc, because climate disruption way ahead of sched:

...o he has a philosophical objection and a parochial, in my backyard objection, which is: This is going to destroy an industry and its jobs in my home state for which I am a United States senator.

Coral Davenport
Absolutely. I mean, and that’s a legitimate objection as well. But there’s something else, which is: Senator Manchin does also make a lot of money off the coal industry himself. Back before he was Senator Manchin, when he was Joe Manchin of Farmington, West Virginia, he founded a coal brokerage company, which he turned over to his son when he first ran for state office in West Virginia. So it is not his company anymore, but he’s still a stockholder in that.

And last year alone, he made almost $500,000 in dividends from this coal brokerage. So it’s absolutely true that he has a personal financial investment in which he profits quite handsomely in this same industry that would be shut down by this policy.
...Coral Davenport
But to be very clear, and to be fair to Senator Manchin, he absolutely is in compliance with senate ethics requirements. He’s very open about this. He has filed all of his financial disclosures. Nothing is concealed. He himself does not own this company. He’s been subject to a lot of criticism for essentially making personal profit on the coal industry, but senators are allowed to have these investments, and he complies with the letter of the law of the ethics requirements.

Michael Barbaro
So what has been the reaction to Joe Manchin’s decision to essentially kill off this program?

Coral Davenport
Well, as you can imagine, there are progressive Democrats, Democrats who have built their whole political careers around climate change, who are furious. They’re furious, of course, not only at Manchin, but they’re furious at the idea that this piece could be taken out of the bill at all. And almost immediately when this happened last week, I talked to the staff of Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota, who has been central in writing this program, who said, essentially, if they don’t have a strong climate program, if they don’t have a program that cuts carbon emissions, they should not count on our vote.
transcript:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/20/podcasts/the-daily/joe-biden-climate-plan-joe-manchin.html?showTranscript=1

pod: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/20/podcasts/the-daily/joe-biden-climate-plan-joe-manchin.html

And let me reiterate, this is not coming from a place of "oh think of the feelings of the poor CIA agents". It's coming from a place of, "holy shit, this exact line of thinking has been twisted in some pretty horrifying ways through our country's history so maybe be careful".

Still don’t see how this differs from ODing cops and Vax Victims, though? Because cops are in a position of power and the vax victims are ridiculous? But how is that different from “CIA case officer targeted by headache gun”?

this really is one of the least interesting arguments you guys have had and that’s saying something

who is winning? i haven't really checked into the particulars, but i know a guy in dc. he has "high clearance". apparently he's just one of over 1.5 million people around there who do

Still don’t see how this differs from ODing cops and Vax Victims, though? Because cops are in a position of power and the vax victims are ridiculous? But how is that different from “CIA case officer targeted by headache gun”?

Not sure I understand the question here? I understood the reference upthread to cops touching fentanyl to be a nod to those faked videos of cops pretending to OD when they brushed their fingers against it. I don't think any cop faking an OD is deserving of sympathy at all. If you are asking if I have sympathy for cop ODing from recreational drug use? Yeah, I do have sympathy. I can wish that every cop in America immediately quits policing to do something non-destructive with their lives, but also realize that they likely have family, friends and loved ones who are going to be impacted should they die. As for "Vax Victims", I'm not sure what that term, exactly. But assuming you mean anti-vaxxers dying from their own stubborn refusal and belief in stupid ideas, well, it depends, I guess. If we are talking Tucker Carlson or someone who has gone out of their way to spread disinformation, nah, probably not going to have a lot of sympathy (though he's a bad example because I'm certain he has been vaxxed). But if it's someone's random grandma who has been isolated and ended up in an echo chamber that reinforces harmful beliefs in her head, I am going to have sympathy for her death, absolutely. It's a shitty system that killed her. Though again, I'm not sure I understand your question, so this may be a different reading than you intended.

My point being that I think the more often we reduce things to "X group is bad, so all members of X group should suffer or die", the more we allow space for other people to do the same and I sure as hell know that other people are going to have a very different "group X" in mind.

And I realize we are talking about a "mystery" headache and sickness, not anything as severe as death, I was just picking up on the "ODing cops" and "Vax Victims" part of that post.

I'm going to bow out of this now because I realize when I'm fighting a losing battle.

My point being that I think the more often we reduce things to "X group is bad, so all members of X group should suffer or die", the more we allow space for other people to do the same and I sure as hell know that other people are going to have a very different "group X" in mind.

This is broadly true (and thus hard to disagree with), but

a) in this situation we who are making fun of so-called "Havana Syndrome" sufferers are not so much saying "those people over there are bad, and they should suffer and die" as "those people over there are full of shit, and it's funny that journalists' brains are so broken that they take this obvious bullshit seriously", and

b) your broader principle is so broad that it ultimately would prohibit you from making any kind of judgement about any group at all, ever, because Bad People might exercise the same right and then you'd be... bad by association, because you did it once, too? It's the paradox of tolerance, where you have to be "tolerant" even to people who are themselves intolerant, because to not do so would make you intolerant, too, which is bad, all over again. And just like that's horseshit (you're not obligated to be tolerant to Nazis), so is this. Making fun of CIA agents who claim the Russians aimed a migraine cannon at them is not the same as denying that black hospital patients really feel pain when they get surgery. It's just fucking not.

Some people can oppose someone's ideologies and politics while being sympathetic to their suffering. It's not being tolerant of their intolerance, it's just being empathic.

Some people can oppose someone's ideologies and politics while being sympathetic to their suffering. It's not being tolerant of their intolerance, it's just being empathic.

Sure, but these people are not suffering from a real thing, any more than if they claimed to have morgellons. There is no such thing as "Havana Syndrome," and even entertaining the idea that there might be makes you a rube and a mark.

If Bernie claimed that Manchin was hitting him with a magical death ray it would be equally absurd and dismissible.

We know the CIA heart attack gun isn't real because Biden would have used it on Breyer.

fwiw the fentanyl cops probably aren't really "faking it" either, they're experiencing panic attacks or some kind of conversion syndrome. and as a long time panic attack sufferer i sympathize with them i guess? kind of? but mostly they can eat shit, they brought it on themselves

CDC guidelines for fentanyl were terrible and there has been a massive amount of mythology around the drug, I don't know how much it comes from the police profession itself (probably a lot!) but for a while, with the limited info available, it was normal to be pretty scared of the whole thing. Medical first responders were equally scared.

I see the guidelines are still terrible.

Sure, but these people are not suffering from a real thing, any more than if they claimed to have morgellons. There is no such thing as "Havana Syndrome," and even entertaining the idea that there might be makes you a rube and a mark.

I haven't done a deep dive into Havana Syndrome, but I've read articles in credible publications (for instance, this New Yorker article from a few months ago) that basically take the stance of "huh, this is really weird, and there still doesn't seem to be a good explanation for it." So that's basically where my head is at, and I don't really understand the jump to "this is obviously fake," regardless of how one feels about the CIA. (That said, I also don't think that individuals who work for the CIA are inherently and objectively bad or untrustworthy or undeserving of sympathy.)

Story on NBC news week or so ago had a couple State Dept. people that had some brain MRIs that showed some abnormalities and the doctors clueless on how they got that way. Who knows...call Fox Mulder I guess.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/early-victims-of-havana-syndrome-speak-out-about-ongoing-health-struggles-123482693615

I keep thinking about that scene in that BBC Hawkwind documentary of Lemmy talking about DikMik using the pulse generator in the shows.

"In case of sonic attack on your district, follow these rules..."

Five veterans tapped to advise Senator Kyrsten Sinema, an Arizona Democrat, resigned from their posts on Thursday, publicly accusing her of “hanging your constituents out to dry” in the latest sign of growing hostility toward a centrist who has emerged as a key holdout on President Biden’s agenda.

“You have become one of the principal obstacles to progress, answering to big donors rather than your own people,” the veterans wrote in a letter that is to be featured in a new advertisement by Common Defense, a progressive veterans’ activist group that has targeted Ms. Sinema.

“We shouldn’t have to buy representation from you, and your failure to stand by your people and see their urgent needs is alarming,” they added.

Now we just need her entire team to quit

American democracy saved by a triathlon coach who isn’t having it anymore

"I don't really understand the jump to "this is obviously fake," regardless of how one feels about the CIA. "

me either, it reminds me of people who refused to believe fybromyalgia or lyme disease were real. No doubt there are probably people jumping on this 'diagnosis' who are full of shit or suffer from munchausen or something, but I'm not in the habit of utterly dismissing illness in people when I don't know them.

maybe they should call it Langley Syndrome. might be easier for pol to take seriously

ppl*

obv pols are taking it Extremely Seriously, much more so than crumbling infrastructure or extreme weather events every other month or $900 insulin

Hopefully I’m not a jerk; I created a thread for those who want to talk about the Havana syndrome

The Havana Syndrome

"I don't really understand the jump to "this is obviously fake," regardless of how one feels about the CIA. "

me either, it reminds me of people who refused to believe fybromyalgia or lyme disease were real.

I don't know about this. Are lyme disease or fybromyalgia sufferers getting sanctions passed against ???? foreign enemies?

me either, it reminds me of people who refused to believe fybromyalgia or lyme disease were real. No doubt there are probably people jumping on this 'diagnosis' who are full of shit or suffer from munchausen or something, but I'm not in the habit of utterly dismissing illness in people when I don't know them.

careful, I got roasted for making this same point yesterday...

I got roasted for making this same point

The very existence of 24 hour reports about remote events gives everyone the right to form summary judgments upon people they have never met, events they did not witness or experience, and ideas they may not understand in full. Suggesting that these judgments may be faulty or premature, due to faulty, imprecise or scanty information is an attack upon Our Freedom To Opine. #publicserviceannouncement

I missed the stories about Lyme disease being a Russian weapon, I guess.

American weapon otoh

The US House of Representatives has ordered the Pentagon’s inspector general to conduct a review of whether the defence department “experimented with ticks and other insects regarding use as biological weapons between 1950 and 1975.”1

The demand for a review, proposed by Chris Smith, a New Jersey Republican, passed easily among a raft of other late amendments to a House bill on defence spending. It must still be “reconciled” with the Senate’s version of the spending bill, but Smith said that he was confident of Senate support.

He told the House that his amendment had been “inspired by a number of books and articles suggesting that significant research had been done at US government facilities including Fort Detrick, Maryland, and Plum Island, New York, to turn ticks and other insects into bioweapons.”

Politicks

It’s pretty embarrassing that we spend multiples of every other country on intelligence and the military and don’t have a death ray of our own.

We are years behind on headache technology

I don't know that it's a foreign weapon, in fact I'd be more inclined to believe this is due to either 1) some issue in the embassy buildings themselves, the cause of which I dunno or 2) a side effect of some bullshit the CIA is actually trying to do to foreign parties; either way, completely dismissing illness complaints from people is nagl imo tbh wtf

The dispute isn’t ‘do they have headaches’ though, it’s the foreign weapon part. The State Dept. and CIA aren’t saying they need sanctions against the contractor who used high-VOC paint in the offices.

comparing CIA/State department operatives, who have *already* gotten a special piece of legislation passed to fully fund their care and investigate their syndrome, to sufferers of various hard to diagnose illnesses who are systemically ill-served and disbelieved is kind of ridiculous!

I get why the pattern recognition part of yr brain is conflating the two; people report symptoms and other people don’t believe them. Both I and people I love have dealt with that, it sucks! Also, I’m genuinely sympathetic to the concept of applying universal compassion to even the worst human beings. However, the power and privilege differential here is fucking enormous. When that compassion is weaponized to heap even more privilege and funding onto gov’t operatives who acquired these supposed illnesses in the course of exerting imperial power, to beat the drum for further militarization, and to morally condemn any questioning of the stories told by *professional, state-sanctioned liars,* it enters the realm of absurdity and is no longer useful or, indeed, moral!

but like table (I think?) said, if you don’t think willingly working for the CIA is an indelible stain on a person that fully disqualifies one from any benefit of the doubt, I don’t think we’re ever going to see eye to eye on this

if you don’t think willingly working for the CIA is an indelible stain on a person that fully disqualifies one from any benefit of the doubt, I don’t think we’re ever going to see eye to eye on this

Don't know who you are, but you're right that we won't agree.

The legislation is immaterial to my point, which is that nothing has been definitively proven one way or another. I don't think it's *obviously* the work of foreign intelligence for the same reason I don't think it's *obviously* an invention of the CIA.

The dispute isn’t ‘do they have headaches’ though, it’s the foreign weapon part. The State Dept. and CIA aren’t saying they need sanctions against the contractor who used high-VOC paint in the offices.

But these are in fact different disputes that are taking place. Saying that Havana Syndrome "isn't real" or is "made-up" (not the exact words of anyone here, I'll admit) is a reaction to claims that people have experienced distress, and implies that they aren't actually suffering. What to do about it is another matter altogether.

You’re eliding that the syndrome is being defined as, in the words of Susan Collin’s press release on the Havana Act, “symptoms ‘consistent with the effects of directed, pulsed, radiofrequency energy.’”

The “syndrome” is inseparable from the weapons claims. If CIA spooks had headaches because of black mold in the torture dungeon showers it wouldn’t be “Havana syndrome.”

If CIA spooks had headaches because of black mold in the torture dungeon showers it wouldn’t be “Havana syndrome.”

And yet the repeated inference made itt is that all CIA spooks are awful, evil liars, so why wouldn't it be entirely possible that they are leveraging very real symptoms of something more benign into a stupidly expensive piece of legislation that only got through and supported by the media because of some "scary evil Russians with ray guns" angle. Which is what I think is happening.

nicole otmfm

Psyching yourself so you OD at the sight of fentanyl doesn’t make Copioid Syndrome real but you still go into shock.

I mean, if the baseline insistence itt is going to always be that it's 100% fabricated, no matter what, there really isn't a point of discussion at all I guess.

the thing is-- this idea about microwave weapons being used against US diplomats and agents was floating around years ago. In fact the NSA studied it in 2012. I think someone in one of these agencies who starts to get sick, for whatever reason, is naturally going to suspect that as a cause

We are years behind on headache technology

The only way to stop a bad guy with headache technology is with a good guy with headache technology.

there really isn't a point of discussion at all I guess.

the legislation being immaterial doesn’t make any sense to me, tbh?

the reason it’s harmful that people have disbelieved my and others’ symptoms isn’t because it’s mean and hurts our feelings, it’s because it forms a systemic barrier to receiving needed care. that barrier in this case has already been legislated away! it doesn’t matter how much you or I believe them, they’ll receive the highest level of care without any charge regardless. this simply isn’t true of 99% of chronic illness sufferers in America.

ftr I have no idea what injuries these ppl did or did not suffer, I don’t think it’s *obviously* anything; I’m just a dumb jerk with no higher clearance than anyone else here. but I really take issue with random civilians staying very skeptical about CIA operatives’ stories being morally conflated with disbelieving everyone with chronic unexplained symptoms

The “syndrome” is inseparable from the weapons claims. If CIA spooks had headaches because of black mold in the torture dungeon showers it wouldn’t be “Havana syndrome.”

And yet there is plenty of reporting on "Havana syndrome" that suggests a number of possible origins, both malicious and innocuous, and doesn't come to any definitive conclusion. Obviously, the weapons claims make it a subject of greater intrigue, but is it not possible to talk about it as a phenomenon without either uncritically accepting those claims or dismissing it altogether?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.youtube.com%2Fvi%2FUAbAIpZG7II%2F0.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Sorry, nicole, I read your post twice and don't quite understand it. I'm sorry if you are not receiving medical care for chronic illness. I think everyone should receive medical care.

--ADAM CURTIS VOICEOVER--

Meanwhile, a group of people were immersed in a discussion on U.S. politics. But they weren't talking about politics, they were talking about something called Havana Syndrome

--Brian Eno music--

And yet there is plenty of reporting on "Havana syndrome" that suggests a number of possible origins, both malicious and innocuous, and doesn't come to any definitive conclusion. Obviously, the weapons claims make it a subject of greater intrigue, but is it not possible to talk about it as a phenomenon without either uncritically accepting those claims or dismissing it altogether?

Not really, no. The "Havana syndrome" is pretty clearly defined (see above) by those promoting it and it's about attacks from foreign enemies. The very name refers to spurious claims of weapons attacks on people working in Cuba. Reporting on it "suggesting a number of possible origins" inherently questions the concept of "Havana syndrome" and the money we're throwing at the CIA for it and sanctions against unnamed enemies that are being drawn up in response.

'America's official torturers have headaches, don't know why' isn't a syndrome and isn't the question at hand.

I'm reacting more to Twitter reactions which have been "these people aren't sick, they have hangovers".

After 30 years of campaigning to give government the power to negotiate prescription drug prices, Democrats appear ready to fumble the ball at the goal line. Failure would be akin to the GOP's flubbing repeal of Obamacare after so many promises. https://t.co/F0Ev1GRImc

— Jonathan Weisman (@jonathanweisman) October 21, 2021

We should use Havana Syndrome to get drug cost reform passed, make it a patriotic issue to lower CIA co-pays on migraine drugs.

this is also sinema and manchin's fault. dunno what to do about that. win more seats elsewhere.

I'm reacting more to Twitter reactions which have been "these people aren't sick, they have hangovers".

fwiw, this is exactly what triggered my post yesterday, which I deeply regred.

regret, jesus.

I guess on an individual case-by-case basis it’s fair to say the spectrum of “good”-to-“evil” CIA employees probably tracks with an industry like Big Law, the financial sector, or Political Consulting, but I personally just take issue with the notion that sure, the CIA was admittedly evil in the *past*, but then the Church Committee happened, they looked inward and did some soul-searching, and hey turns out everything’s been on the up and up since Carter.

And I want to be clear that I’m *not* attributing that line of thinking to jic or anyone else here. But the way (especially) cable news, the mainstream media in general, the Dem Party, and garden variety moderate liberals just lap up the bullshit—only to find out years down the road whoops turns out they’re doing the same dirtball bs as always, generally to no virtuous or really even worthwhile ends, is just… fatiguing.

yeah I have Havana Syndrome. Im Havana nother beer lol

— Patrick Halloween (@lunch_enjoyer) August 25, 2021

But what I said in my post upthread was that I do *kind of* think the CIA is being misleading and malicious here, I don't think I've ever defended them as exemplars of honesty and straightforwardness. I think they are parlaying something as benign as sick-building syndrome into getting a shit ton of money out of legislation by conjuring up some evil Russian headache gun storyline because it sure sounds sexier and more attention grabbing than, "hey we need more money to fix our decades old embassy buildings with shitty ventilation and mold problems".

Despite being repeatedly told the opposite over the last 24 hours, I'm comfortable believing that, yes, the CIA has a history of being nefarious and duplicitous (to put it mildly), but that I also believe that some people are indeed suffering legitimate symptoms that are worthy of being considered. What I didn't realize is how this is the profoundly wrong forum for that line of discussion.

xpost to self: jic = jvc, and maybe that post was better suited for the other thread

Not really, no. The "Havana syndrome" is pretty clearly defined (see above) by those promoting it and it's about attacks from foreign enemies. The very name refers to spurious claims of weapons attacks on people working in Cuba. Reporting on it "suggesting a number of possible origins" inherently questions the concept of "Havana syndrome" and the money we're throwing at the CIA for it and sanctions against unnamed enemies that are being drawn up in response.

'America's official torturers have headaches, don't know why' isn't a syndrome and isn't the question at hand.

― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, October 21, 2021 2:24 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Well, I guess this is a matter of semantics, then. I've been using "Havana Syndrome" to describe the mysterious phenomenon of multiple U.S. diplomats suffering inexplicable illnesses, which was first identified in Havana. Is there a better name for that?

the Spook flu

Maybe "the phenomenon that has been labeled 'Havana Syndrome' by some bad people who are full of shit"?

Ask Alex Jones?

but that I also believe that some people are indeed suffering legitimate symptoms that are worthy of being considered

Don't know who you are, but you're right that we won't agree.

[...]

― jaymc, Thursday, October 21, 2021 11:30 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

uh oh

Tbf, there are lots of people on ILX these days that I don't know, or have no real sense of. (The original .xls joke was like 15 years ago.) Just didn't recognize the screenname.

lol I don’t feel like deadnaming myself (and thus making my 17-year-old drunk posts easily searchable) but I’ve been reading ilx for 20 years and posted some, but I just don’t have poster brain (too many self-edits and superfluous parentheticals to keep it up) so you prob don’t remember me

hope that’s enough for the .xls

xp

It's enough to assure me that you're not the capital-N Nicole who used to post here, whom I briefly thought you might be.

Was wondering about that too.

the xls is twitching!

It’s been a wild few days for this thread.

Can only speak for myself but my own xls was on old format that I didn’t upgrade so I can’t read it anymore

In American political news:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/21/us/politics/bannon-contempt-jan-6-subpoena.html

He probably won't suffer any consequences for it.

I will also say:

I don't have empathy for CIA agents, cops, prosecutors, DAs, most military servicemembers, or anyone else who has voluntarily joined up to represent US empire. They can get fucked, and so can their sympthatizers afaic.

⭐️

I don't have empathy for CIA agents, cops, prosecutors, DAs, most military servicemembers, or anyone else who has voluntarily joined up to represent US empire. They can get fucked, and so can their sympthatizers afaic.

― I'm a sovereign jizz citizen (the table is the table)

I deal with ROTC students. I have a mild cynical admiration for the men and women who enlisted for a free ride in college who killed no one and had the dumb luck not to get sent to a theatre of war.

They can get fucked

Well, with DADT gone they probably do, thank goodness.

I'm confused that everyone in this thread is attributing Havana Syndrome solely to CIA operatives in the Havana embassy/diplomatic corps. Is the presumption here that everyone in the diplomatic service who is assigned to Havana is a CIA employee rather than a State Dept employee? Or do the news reports specifically state that only CIA employees suffered from this (which would be odd, since that might 'out' them as intelligence agents)? idgi, where is this 'fact' coming from?

Without making moral judgments about how much these individual people affected deserve or don’t what’s happened to them, the most likely *explanation* seems related to the fact that the institutions involved (cia and state) have a record of being incompetent liars.

Is the presumption here that everyone in the diplomatic service who is assigned to Havana is a CIA employee rather than a State Dept employee?

The State Department serves as a primary cover for CIA agents so if you don't want to be presumed to be part of the torture corps you should probably also turn down State jobs. (Not that the State Department is markedly better than the CIA itself.)

"how do we know you're NOT a spook?"

I knew that. Every US embassy in the world has a complement of CIA operatives serving under diplomatic cover. That's a given. But diplomatic service training is not the same as CIA training, nor do the two perform identical functions where they are assigned. My question was, are we assuming there no State Dept diplomats in Havana or are we saying they were they exempt from this syndrome? Or are we just being lazy?

Seems like it would be exhausting to move through life without understanding not-literal speech.

my personal perspective if is that you’re there to serve American business interests and provide cover for CIA agents, you are the moral equivalent of a CIA agent, so I don’t really care about the distinction, at least in terms of how much should I believe their explanation for (or the severity of) their symptoms

if I were trying to make some legal or public procedural point I would certainly make that distinction, but I’m just bitching online while the laundry dries so w/e

Good for Chuck!

Today, I endorse @indiawaltonbflo, the Democratic nominee for Mayor of Buffalo. She's a community leader, nurse, & mother with a clear progressive vision for her hometown.

Dems are at our best when we build a big tent & forge inclusive coalitions to fight for everyday people. pic.twitter.com/Bm5B4lwXoH

— Chuck Schumer (@chuckschumer) October 21, 2021

Was just about to post that on the left wing drift thread. Would not have happened a couple of years ago.

Seems to me that working at any level for a Cabinet secretary or executive branch position required to deal in foreign policy is akin to being president: the presumption is you'll suffer some kind of soul rot/moral decay, major or minor, depending on the position. I had to deal with this shit Tuesday when a couple former low level State Department people in this FB group -- Democrats! -- defended Colin Powell for "modernizing" the department and came at me hard for condemning him, period.

So if any ILXer wants to work at State, by all means! You might do some good. We need good people over there and learn to live with yourself when the bad happens.

wau @ Schumer

move through life without understanding not-literal speech.

so you are saying I should take you all seriously, but not literally? Seems to me that same advice was offered in regard to some other person.

We need good people over there and learn to live with yourself when the bad happens.

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, October 21, 2021 6:48 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

In my experience, most jobs present dilemmas, soul rot/moral decay and the need to compartmentalize.

In the meantime, let's just hope we can access the level of purity Rev. Milo requires of every person.

What was Beria supposed to do, the man needed a job just like you and me.

^^^ see, Aimless? There's your non-literal speech

In my experience, most jobs present dilemmas, soul rot/moral decay and the need to compartmentalize.

― Van Horn Street, Thursday, October 21, 2021 3:59 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is true, but there's also CHOICE involved here.

is there any level or frequency of acknowledging our own weaknesses, or really *anything at all,* that will allow people who are farther left than American Democrats to say we expect better things from our politicians than are currently likely or even possible without being accused of doing horseshoe theory or purity politics, or is that just, like, baked in at this point

also I’m pretty fuckin’ sure that e.g. doing data entry at a shitty telecom company or something involves significantly less moral compromise than a gig providing cover for quasi-legal arms sales in Yemen, but sure, both do involve some compromise, yes

nicole, getting people further left than our current leaders into Cabinet positions whose mission statements have been razed and rewritten would be a start. I say that because, as a much older man dating a much younger guy arrested on Monday to protest the Biden White House's Haiti policy, I still talk to leftists of color who believe American can change if America allotted them power.

We're seeing the influence of those leftists now. That Charles Fucking Schumer's endorsing India Walton is as much a comment on how the times have changed thanks to the influence of, say, staffers and activists as any.

What of the need for him to endorse her at all because of the actions of the rest of the NY and Buffalo Democratic Party?

I too thought nicole was Nicole and was somewhat confused

I'm otherwise done with this debate

as a much older man dating a much younger guy arrested on Monday to protest the Biden White House's Haiti policy, I still talk to leftists of color

braggin 2021 triple points

;)

https://c.tenor.com/crbfB-oVLJEAAAAM/check-list-bj-novak.gif

New - “That’s a reach,” Biden says when asked if dental, vision and hearing will all be covered by Medicare. “Mr. Manchin is opposed.” Says he believes Sinema is too. Says they are talking about $800 voucher for dental. Adds on CNN Sinema open to hearing. Still negotiating vision

— Manu Raju (@mkraju) October 22, 2021

A single root canal is what, $1500ish on average?

Among other revelations, Manchin as governor directed his chief of staff to help push up electricity rates to bail out the company buying coal from him https://t.co/Q3cTZbEj0O

— Ryan Grim (@ryangrim) October 23, 2021

u.s. political discourse, "national conversations", florida

...In Brevard, the protests began with Moms for Liberty, a purported grass-roots organization founded after my election by the incumbent I had unseated. Supplied with matching blue T-shirts, pocket copies of the Constitution and a hazy notion of critical race theory — which is not taught in the public schools — its members began showing up at school board meetings. Their first battle, in March, was over bathrooms. Moms for Liberty had zeroed in on the county’s LGBTQ guidelines for administrators, a document outlining the rights of students as delineated in state and federal laws, including the right to dress and use bathrooms according to the gender they identify with. The group carried the torch for fears that their daughters would be exposed to sexual harassment and abuse by their male peers. A disinformation campaign spread through social media, leading the public to believe that this document was newly developed (it wasn’t) and being kept secret. Protesters became regulars outside school board meetings. Trump flags waved in the parking lot. Young children, accompanied by their parents, shouted into megaphones, “Don’t touch me, pedophiles!” LGBTQ students tried to speak while adults chanted “Shame!” Meetings were packed, and those who couldn’t get in banged on the windows and doors.

By April, protesters had begun to gather not just at board meetings but also in front of my house. A group of about 15 shouted “Pedophiles!” as my neighbors walked their dogs, pushing their infants in strollers. “We’re coming for you,” they yelled, mistaking friends standing on my porch for me and my husband. “We’re coming at you like a freight train! We are going to make you beg for mercy. If you thought January 6 was bad, wait until you see what we have for you!”

In July, the battle shifted to mandated masks for students. Brevard is one of 11 Florida school districts to institute mask mandates in defiance of Gov. Ron DeSantis’s executive order banning them. State Rep. Randy Fine, an anti-mask crusader, posted my cellphone number on his Facebook page and urged residents to call me. When my voice mailbox filled, he encouraged text messages. During televised board meetings, I still receive texts commenting on what I am saying and wearing.

After DeSantis removed me from the audience of a news conference promoting monoclonal antibody treatments and addressing concerns about mask mandates at the county Department of Health last month, more protesters arrived at my home. They claimed to have been sent by Fine, who had been standing beside the governor at the news conference. “Be careful, your mommy hurts little kids!” one shouted at my daughter. “You’re going to jail!” they chanted. As I read my daughter a bedtime story inside, they walked outside her bedroom window toward their parked cars. I went out to ensure that they were leaving. One coughed in my face while another shouted, “Give her covid!” A third swung a “Don’t Tread on Me” flag near my face. My neighbors told me they had seen protesters brandishing weapons in the church parking lot behind my house.

The next day, a large “FU” was burned into my lawn with weed killer. The bushes in front of my house were hacked down. That was the day the Department of Children and Families investigator showed up.

...Recently, a woman passed me in the lobby of the school board offices and yelled, “There’s the wicked witch!” Outside the building, as I was entering, the more restrained protesters had held posters labeling me a dictator and a Nazi. The vocal ones threatened me with jail — again. And now there was a king-size bedsheet affixed to two poles; it was printed with a blood-red hashtag demanding my recall. Sheriff’s deputies stood ready to escort me to the front doors.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/10/20/jennifer-jenkins-brevard-school-board-masks-threats/

what can be done

do you understand my desire to show up where these people show up and scream my guts out at them, maybe even just tackle some of them, get my ass kicked by older white men with sunglasses?

There is a special place in hell for the three @BrevardSchools Board Members who did this to seven year-old Sofia Steel. Please take two minutes and watch the comments I shared at the end of my committee meeting this week. pic.twitter.com/njVGWR9vAl

— Rep. Randy Fine (@VoteRandyFine) October 22, 2021

yeah I don't believe that story one bit

he's so Fine

I'm lucky I don't have to interact with these people IRL because I know I would do something extremely stupid if I did

I do believe these fascists in Florida made a pretty strong stand your ground law in their state, I believe they should consider using it against these lunatics. It would be fitting.

this seems pretty significant

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/exclusive-jan-6-organizers-met-congress-white-house-1245289/

This is really sickening if it's right, and if it's not right Rolling Stone can burn in a fire forever

I literally mean sickening, like you guys I'm sure think I'm a squish, but I don't WANT it to be true that sitting members of Congress would participate in this, I want to believe they unleashed forces they were unable to control, I don't want the reality to be .... this.

Huge, if true. Hard to think that Rolling Stone would go public with that story if it were a fabrication or under-sourced.

if it's true i imagine it will be everywhere by Tuesday

iirc the day this happened there were a bunch of stories on Twitter about how members of Congress had given tours to some of these people the week before and I'm pretty sure I remember AOC saying she was confused at how they were able to so easily find her. the degree to which Rs have been opposing a 1/6 commission definitely suggests there's more to the story

if there's any truth to this it's basically the dictionary definition of treason, hopefully the Dems treat it as such

it would absolutely not surprise me at all if it were true which is pretty damning in any case

it's basically the dictionary definition of treason, hopefully the Dems treat it as such

hard agree, but my sense is that the Dem leadership has zero appetite for putting on any trials for treason. I doubt they can even muster the will to have the traitors expelled from congress, which would be a crying shame.

members of Congress had given tours to some of these people the week before

that is vastly different from what the linked article alleges

for the sake of "in case this gets taken down or edited"

EXCLUSIVE: Jan. 6 Protest Organizers Say They Participated in ‘Dozens’ of Planning Meetings With Members of Congress and White House Staff
Two sources are communicating with House investigators and detailed a stunning series of allegations to Rolling Stone, including a promise of a “blanket pardon” from the Oval Office
By HUNTER WALKER

As the House investigation into the Jan. 6 attack heats up, some of the planners of the pro-Trump rallies that took place in Washington, D.C., have begun communicating with congressional investigators and sharing new information about what happened when the former president’s supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol. Two of these people have spoken to Rolling Stone extensively in recent weeks and detailed explosive allegations that multiple members of Congress were intimately involved in planning both Trump’s efforts to overturn his election loss and the Jan. 6 events that turned violent.

Rolling Stone separately confirmed a third person involved in the main Jan. 6 rally in D.C. has communicated with the committee. This is the first report that the committee is hearing major new allegations from potential cooperating witnesses. While there have been prior indications that members of Congress were involved, this is also the first account detailing their purported role and its scope. The two sources also claim they interacted with members of Trump’s team, including former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, who they describe as having had an opportunity to prevent the violence.

The two sources, both of whom have been granted anonymity due to the ongoing investigation, describe participating in “dozens” of planning briefings ahead of that day when Trump supporters broke into the Capitol as his election loss to President Joe Biden was being certified.

“I remember Marjorie Taylor Greene specifically,” the organizer says. “I remember talking to probably close to a dozen other members at one point or another or their staffs.”

For the sake of clarity, we will refer to one of the sources as a rally organizer and the other as a planner. Rolling Stone has confirmed that both sources were involved in organizing the main event aimed at objecting to the electoral certification, which took place at the White House Ellipse on Jan. 6. Trump spoke at that rally and encouraged his supporters to march to the Capitol. Some members of the audience at the Ellipse began walking the mile and a half to the Capitol as Trump gave his speech. The barricades were stormed minutes before the former president concluded his remarks.

These two sources also helped plan a series of demonstrations that took place in multiple states around the country in the weeks between the election and the storming of the Capitol. According to these sources, multiple people associated with the March for Trump and Stop the Steal events that took place during this period communicated with members of Congress throughout this process.

Along with Greene, the conspiratorial pro-Trump Republican from Georgia who took office earlier this year, the pair both say the members who participated in these conversations or had top staffers join in included Rep. Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.), Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.), Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.), Rep. Madison Cawthorn (R-N.C.), Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.), and Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas).

“We would talk to Boebert’s team, Cawthorn’s team, Gosar’s team like back to back to back to back,” says the organizer.

And Gosar, who has been one of the most prominent defenders of the Jan. 6 rioters, allegedly took things a step further. Both sources say he dangled the possibility of a “blanket pardon” in an unrelated ongoing investigation to encourage them to plan the protests.

“Our impression was that it was a done deal,” the organizer says, “that he’d spoken to the president about it in the Oval … in a meeting about pardons and that our names came up. They were working on submitting the paperwork and getting members of the House Freedom Caucus to sign on as a show of support.”

The organizer claims the pair received “several assurances” about the “blanket pardon” from Gosar.

“I was just going over the list of pardons and we just wanted to tell you guys how much we appreciate all the hard work you’ve been doing,” Gosar said, according to the organizer.

The rally planner describes the pardon as being offered while “encouraging” the staging of protests against the election. While the organizer says they did not get involved in planning the rallies solely due to the pardon, they were upset that it ultimately did not materialize.

“I would have done it either way with or without the pardon,” the organizer says. “I do truly believe in this country, but to use something like that and put that out on the table when someone is so desperate, it’s really not good business.”

Gosar’s office did not respond to requests for comment on this story. Rolling Stone has separately obtained documentary evidence that both sources were in contact with Gosar and Boebert on Jan. 6. We are not describing the nature of that evidence to preserve their anonymity. The House select committee investigating the attack also has interest in Gosar’s office. Gosar’s chief of staff, Thomas Van Flein, was among the people who were named in the committee’s “sweeping” requests to executive-branch agencies seeking documents and communications from within the Trump administration. Both sources claim Van Flein was personally involved in the conversations about the “blanket pardon” and other discussions about pro-Trump efforts to dispute the election. Van Flein did not respond to a request for comment.

These specific members of Congress were involved in the pro-Trump activism around the election and the electoral certification on Jan. 6. Both Brooks and Cawthorn spoke with Trump at the Ellipse on Jan. 6. In his speech at that event, Brooks, who was reportedly wearing body armor, declared, “Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass.” Gosar, Greene, and Boebert were all billed as speakers at the “Wild Protest,” which also took place on Jan. 6 at the Capitol.

Nick Dyer, who is Greene’s communications director, said she was solely involved in planning to object to the electoral certification on the House floor. Spokespeople for the other members of Congress, who the sources describe as involved in the planning for protests, did not respond to requests for comment.

“Congresswoman Greene and her staff were focused on the Congressional election objection on the House floor and had nothing to do with planning of any protest,” Dyer wrote in an email to Rolling Stone.

Dyer further compared Greene’s efforts to dispute certification of Biden’s victory with similar objections certain Democrats lodged against Trump’s first election.

“She objected just like Democrats who have objected to Republican presidential victories over the years,” wrote Dyer. “Just like in 2017, when Jim McGovern, Jamie Raskin, Pramila Jayapal, Barbara Lee, Sheila Jackson Lee, Raul Grijalva, and Maxine Waters tried to prevent President Trump’s election win from being certified.”

Dyer also suggested the public is far more concerned with issues occurring under President Joe Biden than they are with what happened in January.

“No one cares about Jan. 6 when gas prices are skyrocketing, grocery store shelves are empty, unemployment is skyrocketing, businesses are going bankrupt, our border is being invaded, children are forced to wear masks, vaccine mandates are getting workers fired, and 13 members of our military are murdered by the Taliban and Americans are left stranded in Afghanistan,” Dyer wrote.

In another indication members of Congress may have been involved in planning the protests against the election, Ali Alexander, who helped organize the “Wild Protest,” declared in a since-deleted livestream broadcast that Gosar, Brooks, and Biggs helped him formulate the strategy for that event.

“I was the person who came up with the Jan. 6 idea with Congressman Gosar, Congressman Mo Brooks, and Congressman Andy Biggs,” Alexander said at the time. “We four schemed up on putting maximum pressure on Congress while they were voting so that — who we couldn’t lobby — we could change the hearts and the minds of Republicans who were in that body hearing our loud roar from outside.”

Alexander led Stop the Steal, which was one of the main groups promoting efforts to dispute Trump’s loss. In December, he organized a Stop the Steal event in Phoenix, where Gosar was one the main speakers. At that demonstration, Alexander referred to Gosar as “my captain” and declared “one of the other heroes has been Congressman Andy Biggs.”

Alexander did not respond to requests for comment. The rally planner, who accused Alexander of ratcheting up the potential for violence that day while taking advantage of funds from donors and others who helped finance the events, confirmed that he was in contact with those three members of Congress.

“He just couldn’t help himself but go on his live and just talk about everything that he did and who he talked to,” the planner says of Alexander. “So, he, like, really told on himself.”

While it was already clear members of Congress played some role in the Jan. 6 events and similar rallies that occurred in the lead-up to that day, the two sources say they can provide new details about the members’ specific roles in these efforts. The sources plan to share that information with congressional investigators right away. While both sources say their communications with the House’s Jan. 6 committee thus far have been informal, they are expecting to testify publicly.

“I have no problem openly testifying,” the planner says.

A representative for the committee declined to comment. In the past month, the committee has issued subpoenas to top Trump allies, government agencies, and activists who were involved in the planning of events and rallies that took place on that day and in the prior weeks. Multiple sources familiar with the committee’s investigation have confirmed to Rolling Stone that, thus far, it seems to be heavily focused on the financing for the Ellipse rally and similar previous events.

Both of the sources made clear that they still believe in Trump’s agenda. They also have questions about how his election loss occurred. The two sources say they do not necessarily believe there were issues with the actual vote count. However, they are concerned that Democrats gained an unfair advantage in the race due to perceived social media censorship of Trump allies and the voting rules that were implemented as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.

“Democrats used tactics to disrupt their political opposition in ways that frankly were completely unacceptable,” the organizer says.

Despite their remaining affinity for Trump and their questions about the vote, both sources say they were motivated to come forward because of their concerns about how the pro-Trump protests against the election ultimately resulted in the violent attack on the Capitol. Of course, with their other legal issues and the House investigation, both of these sources have clear motivation to cooperate with investigators and turn on their former allies. And both of their accounts paint them in a decidedly favorable light compared with their former allies.

“The reason I’m talking to the committee and the reason it’s so important is that — despite Republicans refusing to participate … this commission’s all we got as far as being able to uncover the truth about what happened at the Capitol that day,” the organizer says. “It’s clear that a lot of bad actors set out to cause chaos. … They made us all look like shit.”

And Trump, they admit, was one of those bad actors. A representative for Trump did not respond to a request for comment.

“The breaking point for me [on Jan. 6 was when] Trump starts talking about walking to the Capitol,” the organizer says. “I was like. ‘Let’s get the fuck out of here.’ ”

“I do kind of feel abandoned by Trump,” says the planner. “I’m actually pretty pissed about it and I’m pissed at him.”

The organizer offers an even more succinct assessment when asked what they would say to Trump.

“What the fuck?” the organizer says.

The two potential witnesses plan to present to the committee allegations about how these demonstrations were funded and to detail communications between organizers and the White House. According to both sources, members of Trump’s administration and former members of his campaign team were involved in the planning. Both describe Katrina Pierson, who worked for Trump’s campaign in 2016 and 2020, as a key liaison between the organizers of protests against the election and the White House.

“Katrina was like our go-to girl,” the organizer says. “She was like our primary advocate.”

Pierson spoke at the Ellipse rally on Jan. 6. She did not respond to requests for comment.

Both sources also describe Trump’s White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, as someone who played a major role in the conversations surrounding the protests on Jan. 6. Among other things, they both say concerns were raised to Meadows about Alexander’s protest at the Capitol and the potential that it could spark violence. Meadows was subpoenaed by the committee last month as part of a group of four people “with close ties to the former President who were working in or had communications with the White House on or in the days leading up to the January 6th insurrection.”

“Meadows was 100 percent made aware of what was going on,” says the organizer. “He’s also like a regular figure in these really tiny groups of national organizers.”

A separate third source, who has also communicated with the committee and was involved in the Ellipse rally, says Kylie Kremer, one of the key organizers at that event, boasted that she was going to meet with Meadows at the White House ahead of the rally. The committee has been provided with that information. Kremer did not respond to a request for comment.

Both the organizer and the planner say Alexander initially agreed he would not hold his “Wild Protest” at the Capitol and that the Ellipse would be the only major demonstration. When Alexander seemed to be ignoring that arrangement, both claim worries were brought to Meadows.

“Despite making a deal … they plowed forward with their own thing at the Capitol on Jan.y 6 anyway,” the organizer says of Alexander and his allies. “We ended up escalating that to everybody we could, including Meadows.”

A representative for Meadows did not respond to requests for comment.

Along with making plans for Jan. 6, the sources say, the members of Congress who were involved solicited supposed proof of election fraud from them. Challenging electoral certification requires the support of a member of the Senate. While more than a hundred Republican members of the House ultimately objected to the Electoral College count that formalized Trump’s loss, only a handful of senators backed the effort. According to the sources, the members of Congress and their staff advised them to hold rallies in specific states. The organizer says locations were chosen to put “pressure” on key senators that “we considered to be persuadable.”

“We had also been coordinating with some of our congressional contacts on, like, what would be presented after the individual objections, and our expectation was that that was the day the storm was going to arrive,” the organizer says, adding, “It was supposed to be the best evidence that they had been secretly gathering. … Everyone was going to stay at the Ellipse throughout the congressional thing.”

Heading into Jan. 6, both sources say, the plan they had discussed with other organizers, Trump allies, and members of Congress was a rally that would solely take place at the Ellipse, where speakers — including the former president — would present “evidence” about issues with the election. This demonstration would take place in conjunction with objections that were being made by Trump allies during the certification on the House floor that day.

“It was in a variety of calls, some with Gosar and Gosar’s team, some with Marjorie Taylor Greene and her team … Mo Brooks,” the organizer says.

“The Capitol was never in play,” insists the planner.

A senior staffer for a Republican member of Congress, who was also granted anonymity to discuss the ongoing investigation, similarly says they believed the events would only involve supporting objections on the House floor. The staffer says their member was engaged in planning that was “specifically and fully above board.”

“A whole host of people let this go a totally different way,” the senior Republican staffer says. “They fucked it up for a lot of people who were planning to present evidence on the House floor. We were pissed off at everything that happened .”

The two sources claim there were early concerns about Alexander’s event. They had seen him with members of the paramilitary groups 1st Amendment Praetorian (1AP) and the Oath Keepers in his entourage at prior pro-Trump rallies. Alexander was filmed with a reputed member of 1AP at his side at a November Stop the Steal event that took place in Georgia. The two sources also claim to have been concerned about drawing people to the area directly adjacent to the Capitol on Jan. 6, given the anger among Trump supporters about the electoral certification that was underway that day.

“They knew that they weren’t there to sing “Kumbaya” and, like, put up a peace sign,” the planner says. “These frickin’ people were angry.”

xp right I'm just saying it seems likely this RS story is just the tip of the iceberg

Predictably, the spin from conservatives (on twitter, thus far anyway) seems to be “remember the fake campus rape story? nothing Rolling Stone publishes is remotely credible”.

Yeah but that 100% was an incredible faceplant by Rolling Stone and it 100% does make me ask, when I see something like this, do they do the same due diligence the newspapers do when they have a story they know is going to draw a million clicks. Sorry. And yes, I know, Judith Miller.

But this particular reporter's bona fides seem fine.

This is obviously bad but doesn't feel like smoking gun stuff exactly. Everyone knew Trump was deeply involved in promoting the rally. He was the one who told everyone to come. It's not, like, White House people on the phone saying, "Break the doors down!" (I'm not saying that didn't happen, but there's nothing like that in this story.)

“No one cares about Jan. 6 when gas prices are skyrocketing, grocery store shelves are empty, unemployment is skyrocketing, businesses are going bankrupt, our border is being invaded, children are forced to wear masks, vaccine mandates are getting workers fired, and 13 members of our military are murdered by the Taliban and Americans are left stranded in Afghanistan,” Dyer wrote.

LOOK AT ALL THESE FIRES WE'VE STARTED SINCE THEN!

i'm also underwhelmed. i expect the response from the dozen or so republicans that were named to all be a version of "yes, we were in touch with them on the issue of investigating the very suspicious election of 2020, which were of course filled with so many irregularities..." etc etc etc, and on their favored media outlets, they'll never get asked about it again

by the way if something like this would have come out in 2015 i would still be puking my guts up in shock. it's just....the republicans are very openly supportive of all this now. it's a litmus test, and even more so on a state GOP level. they are systematically replacing the few people they had who put up any sort of fight to fascism. it's not an exaggeration, and this doesn't surprise me anymore. yes, that is horrifying

it's the collective effect of stuff like this:

Marjorie Taylor Greene lies to a crowd, saying 40% of Democrats want Biden impeached. One of the two main parties in the US has been taken over by authoritarian extremists who say the most insane, obviously wrong lies—and then the crowds cheer. pic.twitter.com/jFjMGcUKoH

— Brian Klaas (@brianklaas) October 24, 2021

"40% of democrats - as high as 40% of democrats, want joe biden impeached"

applause

will any of them ever know? no, because the ones that know better aren't going to say no or correct anyone

dictionary definition of treason, hopefully the Dems treat it as such

good one :)

Fascists are good for business.

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/how-billionaires-pass-wealth-to-heirs-tax-free-2021/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

True or not, absolutely nothing is going to come of this 1/6 story or the investigation.

My favorite current conspiracy theory is that Greene is the hooded would-be pipe bomber of Jan. 6., based on the way she walks. Which is of course ridiculous, so, in other words, totally plausible.

Though curiously, I remember as it was happening a lot of armchair sleuths hypothesized that the figure was female, so who knows.

yea well I say "seems like a big deal" b/c obviously I don't know what is or isn't anymore. for example I thought the Ukraine story would be swept under the rug as example 700 of "Trump can do whatever he wants" but he got himself impeached over it so who knows. my hunch is that there is going to be a lot more to come on this and some pretty damning stuff is gonna come out of the 1/6 commission outside of just "they were talking to each other". who knows if it's gonna matter in any sense but the Republican party going full on QAnon Terrorist is probably not gonna be good for them come midterms

Midterms? Eh, I think people are pretty dug in to their various opinions on 1/6.

If you think it was a very bad day and a treasonous threat to democracy itself, no information from an investigation or commission is going to make you change your mind.

If you think it was a messy but understandable reaction to the VERY OBVIOUS ELECTION IRREGULARITIES etc., no information from an investigation or commission is going to make you change your mind.

If you think it was patriots rising up to defend freedom, see above. If you think it was an Antifa/BLM false flag, see above. If you think it was perhaps a trifle raucous and uncouth, but ultimately not a big deal, see above. If you just don't give a shit and wish people would stop talking about it, well, y'know, see above.

Karl as usual has the right of it:

a version of "yes, we were in touch with them on the issue of investigating the very suspicious election of 2020, which were of course filled with so many irregularities..." etc etc etc

that's the line they're already using!

Right, Trump & co. said "make your voice heard" but stopped short of "break down the doors, smash the windows, beat up the cops, etc.," hence there is no There there electorally speaking. I don't predict a single vote-changing revelation, but would be thrilled if I am wrong on that point.

Right, Trump & co. said "make your voice heard" but stopped short of "break down the doors, smash the windows, beat up the cops, etc.,"

People in this country are refusing to take a vaccine for a raging pandemic and ppl think some revelations that Trump & co. actually did say these things will make a difference: not a chance.

People are ready and willing to die for a myth— this is not news, and like others have said, it won't change a damn thing.

idk we can keep saying that "none of this matters at all" but Republicans did really poorly in basically every single election since Trump was elected and also got 81 million people to vote for one of the most uninspiring Dem candidates ever, I think it's fair to say this stuff matters somewhat

Sure, and it's a fact I don't lose sight of. But our loyal opposition is ensuring this won't happen again.

These are troubling statistics though. No doubt public schools in the US are problematic for all kinds of reasons, so I agree with the first point, but scapegoating the second two issues for the first is stupid; but then so is the american electorate

Whatever the margin/winner is, the race has already shaped GOP 2022 messaging. Look at the poll numbers the NRSC gave @jameshohmann: GOP sees "genderism" and CRT as a potent issue. Expect tons of messaging about that. https://t.co/AoPi08UsOF https://t.co/bxicl60ygE pic.twitter.com/SOib5Ru0Ox

— David Weigel (@daveweigel) October 25, 2021

Republicans did really poorly in basically every single election since Trump was elected

They did pretty well in the 2020 Congressional election and 81mn Biden voters is undermined a bit by Trump having the second highest vote total ever.

This stuff might matter in the smallest margins but the likeliest voters are set one way or the other. People who aren’t locked into a camp are still going to vote based on gut feelings about the economy and crime, not Jan. 6.

well true the electorate has shifted, for every moderate lost due to Trump they've picked up two lunatics who don't have any political beliefs outside of "fuck all politicians". as a result they seem to do okay if Trump is on the ballot but underperform if he's not. how this dynamic will hold now that he's out is anyone's guess but I can't help but think non-stop coverage about the GOP abetting terrorists and Trump's own legal problems probably won't help

non-stop coverage about the GOP abetting terrorists and Trump's own legal problems probably won't help happen

fixed

do you understand my desire to show up where these people show up and scream my guts out at them, maybe even just tackle some of them, get my ass kicked by older white men with sunglasses?

anti-masker threatens a woman, pushes an older guy, all while threatening to “fuck them up,” then gets punched in the face and cries about “assault” - very satisfying 🤙 pic.twitter.com/9idiEXN5oq

— your friend (@debdrens) October 25, 2021

I guarantee that asshole will think a bit longer before he tries that stunt again.

or be like the Terminator and bring a truck through the door

That works out better in movies than irl. Even I could figure out how to trace a truck with massive front end damage back to its owner.

Wow, that video is Dopamine Spike City.

That works out better in movies than irl. Even I could figure out how to trace a truck with massive front end damage back to its owner.

What if he was wearing a mask?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59054166

Charlottesville back in the news

Seeing the NJ Gubernatorial race tighten despite a horrible Republican candidate by any standards is not encouraging.

idk I've read Murphy is gonna pull it off?

I'm not worried about it. I'll be voting in person on Tuesday; apparently when I voted by mail in 2020 I forgot to check the box reading "send me mail-in ballots for all future elections."

it's just uncomfortably close for my liking. I'm in a solid blue county so it's hard to gauge what's going on.

a tight gubernatorial race in new jersey is probably not a great sign for the national environment in general

https://www.vox.com/22725133/virginia-new-jersey-elections-midterms-biden

voters are so fucking stupid

a tight gubernatorial race in new jersey is probably not a great sign for the national environment in general

New Jersey's had a lot of Republican governors. Most of them weren't pieces of shit like Chris Christie. This current Republican nominee is clearly a repulsive piece of shit, and he's gonna lose.

yeah he's really bad it's amazing

NJ is going to be fine. Virginia is going to be close!

I saw a minute of a national news interview with a Biden to VA guv Republican swing voter - Democrats made her kid wear a mask in school, etc.

A decrepit ghoul from the Clinton admin might not be the inspiring figure needed for these times, though.

"WE WANT TO DIE. JUST BRING US DEATH. WE WANT FRAPUCCINOS AND LIBERTY AND DEATH AND GUNS."

A decrepit ghoul from the Clinton admin might not be the inspiring figure needed for these times, though.

Yeah well we had a whole primary about that

a Biden

how many is the Oval Office breeding?

Hunter is waiting in the wings.

now go scare National Review with that blind item!

I saw a minute of a national news interview with a Biden to VA guv Republican swing voter - Democrats made her kid wear a mask in school, etc.

eve jan 6 https://t.co/kiCnkXy0QE

— eve 6ix (@Eve6) October 26, 2021

Grandmaster Bash and the Seditious Five

:) I know 4 of them, but who is the guy with the tuft of hair on top?

Matt 'Jailbait' Gaetz

matt gaetz is the one above on the right, who is the one on the left?

never mind I don't even want to know

Oh wait, the other one. He's the 3%ers guy, right?

voters are so fucking stupid

Collectively, I think voters are like cats. They know what they like, they respond positively to warmth and affection, they can be grumpy and spiky, and they are wary of change and unfamiliar things.

so in other words, so fucking stupid

Re: that photo I am sad to say I know exactly where they are, just from the beams in the background.

Wish I didn't know this but I do

This seems very bad.

https://news.yahoo.com/tell-truth-three-kids-fatally-225121623.html

got a good email from Ron Paul today. it begins:

Dear Patriot,

You can tell a lot about a person based on how they treat animals.

I do not think the word “horrifying” is strong enough for what’s coming out now about the authoritarian hero of the COVID tyranny, Dr. Anthony Fauci.

I think it’s safe to say that most people would look at Snoopy, the beloved beagle character from the Charlie Brown cartoons, and NOT think about what kind of medical experiments can be done on the real-life version of him.

But most people aren’t like Dr. Fauci.

https://www.peta.org/blog/fauci-niaid-puppies-animal-testing/

Accurate or no, a press release written with the hyperbole of political propaganda spam culminating in an embedded video of an interview on Tucker Carlson's show is ... not a great way to ingratiate me to PETA.

PETA hasn't historically been great at ingratiating people to PETA.