Joe Money, Joe Problems: the November 2021 U.S. Politics Thread

Fingers crossed

Good morning!

Is Manchin gonna call Schumer on New Year’s Eve and say he’ll back the bill as long as everyone can make it to the Senate with 36 hours?

At this point I’ve lost track of the various bills

Wolf Blitzer has arrived at COP26 in.... Edinburgh?

I’m now reporting from Edinburgh in Scotland where 20,000 world leaders and delegates have gathered for the COP26 Climate Summit. COP, by the way, stands for “Conference of the Parties.” It’s the 26th time they have gathered to discuss and take action on this critical issue. pic.twitter.com/BGTAeU5cBy

— Wolf Blitzer (@wolfblitzer) November 1, 2021

All COPs are British

Researchers at the Public Religion Research Institute, a nonprofit, found that 30% of Republicans agreed with the statement “Because things have gotten so far off track, true American patriots may have to resort to violence in order to save our country”.

not an expert on polling, but this sounds a little loaded to me

I’m also suspicious that number has been right around there since 1972.

1972? Plenty of violent right wing "patriots" were around back then, too.

The poll is of Republicans. Deeper in the past you’re going to have to decide how to just poll conservatives of both parties.

oy vey

Overheard on the floor: Bernie Sanders showing colleagues a Morning Consult poll on his phone of the most popular provisions falling out of Build Back Better.

“So we drop what’s most popular?” he asks, referring to the Medicare expansion

— Igor Bobic (@igorbobic) November 2, 2021

Schumer says a deal has been reached among Democrats on drug pricing provisions. They will add it to the $1.75T legislation. Says Medicare empowered to negotiate drug prices. Democrats had said would focus on just the most expensive drugs and insulin, which will be capped at $35.

— Manu Raju (@mkraju) November 2, 2021

Schumer says Sinema is on board with prescription drug deal: “Sen. Sinema has told me she supports this” and adds “I think we’re there.”

Admits it’s narrower than what many Dems wanted but says it’s still “a big step.”

— Alex Bolton (@alexanderbolton) November 2, 2021

Sinema insisting that Chuck kneel and kiss her ring before they discuss drug pricing provisions

Update: the pace of in-person voting in Charlottesville increased *a lot* between 9am and 1pm, now putting it on track to perhaps slightly exceed 2017's 16.5k turnout - a relief for Dems. https://t.co/VbokbIcMMs

— Dave Wasserman (@Redistrict) November 2, 2021

lol this is why I'm losing my appetite for minute-by-minute political coverage; I saw the earlier Wasserman tweet reporting on how turnout in Charlottesville was down (and thus Bad News for Democrats).

no, jaymc, you meant In Disarray.

Haha

Here's the average annual cost or year 1 cost of D policy priorities. Retroactive SALT repeal comes in as 2nd most expensive annual priority behind CTC, nearly 3X what is devoted to climate change.https://t.co/f1w0pLtO4t pic.twitter.com/yCgcavwhfJ

— Donald Schneider (@DonFSchneider) November 2, 2021

But How Will We Pay For It

this is obscene but also ... i don't understand how this is possible as a practical matter

The five year salt relief is retroactive

— Jake Sherman (@JakeSherman) November 2, 2021

Rich peoples’ accountants will refile their taxes, I assume?

i stand to benefit personally from this but i definitely do not have the paperwork to refile with itemized deductions in years i didn't previously itemize. cry me a river, right.

You should have a family office like Pelosi’s neighbors and donors.

Will any Republicans be smart enough to turn this tweet into a billboard?

Yep. We pay maybe $40k per year in SALT. I have always wanted to put in a guest suite/workout room above my garage . . . .

— Kristin Shapiro (@mrsshap) November 2, 2021

i mean this is beside the point, and extremely obvious, but the fact that you need to retain staff to access the benefits and incentives you're entitled to is ... well, it's not good IMO!!

i can see how it's possible (i could do it paperwork-wise but i still itemize so i don't need to) but there seems to be so little additional political benefit to making it retroactive as compared to just doing the repeal in the first place. it's just a waste. xpost ok now i see.

this sounds pretty definitive

As a result, the top 1% would pay lower taxes after passage of the Build Back Better plan than they did after the Trump tax cut in 2017. This is beyond unacceptable.

— Bernie Sanders (@SenSanders) November 2, 2021

I am open to a compromise approach which protects the middle class in high tax states. I will not support more tax breaks for billionaires.

— Bernie Sanders (@SenSanders) November 2, 2021

presumably they'll cap it at $20k or something to get the sausage made

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzXC5OCVUAUM7Kg?format=png&name=900x900

I am torn about the SALT. There should be no SALT deduction, the repeal will lower my taxes, and that's bad, I should be paying more taxes.

On the other hand, the 2017 tax bill handed out huge deductions to groups deemed friendly to Republicans while intentionally punishing groups friendly to Democrats (high-SES high-ed people in cities) by social-engineering added costs in blue state.

Like, there should be no SALT deduction, but there should also be no pass-through loophole and no step-up basis and a way lower threshold for the estate tax to kick in. Why can't they fix all that stuff at once in this bill?

(OK looking at it it does look like SOME of the favored treatment for pass-throughs is indeed mitigated in some versions of this bill but who knows what ends up in it.)

Why can't they fix all that stuff at once in this bill?

Manchin, Sinema and a half dozen more hiding behind them.

"Well the country is falling apart spiritually, morally, environmentally, and infrastructurally. One of our major priorities should be handing out tax benefits to rich people."

What a fucking swindle. Failed state.

“half dozen”

lol if only

To be clear, if Shapiro pays $40K/yr in state and local taxes, she doesn't gain $40K from an elimination of the cap, right? She deducts $40K from the income she declares to the federal government, so the amount she stands to gain is just whatever the marginal tax proportion is on those $40K of income. Which if she's paying that much in tax is probably top bracket. So what, she stands to gain $15K a year from this? Again, if she has enough household income to pay that much tax, $15K more or less a year means nothing to her. It's just that much more or less her kids get in their inheritance. If she wants to put in a guest suite she can do it anyway.

(And yes I know her tweet was facetious but others will say the same non-facetiously.)

How does this even get in there? Who's demanding it? I am the most normie homeowning-in-a-high-property-tax-environment Democrat imaginable and I'm not.

Donors are demanding it (and rich Congresspeople). It’s such a key issue for that class Pelosi tried to put it in various 2020 stimulus bills.

I'm a donor! But I guess you mean some class of megadonors with whom I don't interact.

Yeah, not “give to the alumni fund” donors, more “name the new library” donors.

Though it’s much more expensive to buy a library than a politician.

sorry, this isn't us politics specifically but i'm posting it everywhere it is so good

https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-extractive-circuit-singh-chaudhary

How does this even get in there? Who's demanding it?

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, November 2, 2021 5:39 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

the NJ congressional delegation

NEWS: The US government would negotiate just 10 drugs starting in 2025 under a new compromise drug pricing plan, @Alexruoff reports.

The proposal was pitched to Democratic holdouts who have opposed previous, broader schemes to lower drug prices.

— Laura Davison (@laurapdavison) November 2, 2021

look if it’s not worth doing in a broken half-ass way it’s just not with doing at all

haha how does it get negotiated down to 10

hmm 100 is too many that's a lot of drugs you're being unreasonable here

is there another guy in the bar offering 12

how many decades of this broken-ass gilded age do we have to endure, it's an insulting state of affairs for everyone

NEW: manchin will accept negotiations for up to 30 drugs - but only the ones that don't work well

I know the party in power always loses the VA gov race but this is pretty disheartening

Manchin will accept negotiations for up to 30 drugs not produced by the his daughter's company.

Reminder that if an oleaginous cadaver from the Clinton Administration loses it's absolutely imperative to place the blame on the Left

— Eli Valley (@elivalley) November 3, 2021

raw racism wins the day once again

virginia legitimately scares me, as a place

Feel like the Dems dropping basically every popular provision in their bill in favor of more tax cuts for the rich might go hand in hand with this

virginia legitimately scares me, as a place

their inability to get these bills done definitely hasn't helped

xp

that is one place in virginia

don't know how many more "CRT isn't even taught in VA public schools" takes I can read without smashing things

At least we only have another year of having to care about Joe Manchin's opinion on anything?

oh hell yeah

Some in Biden-land are already asking themselves if the president has allowed himself to be tugged too far to the left while in office, and those voices are likely to get louder now.

— Blake Hounshell (@blakehounshell) November 3, 2021

replies seem skeptical

India Walton is the one to watch right now but it looks like it's going poorly for her so far

January 6 wasn’t even a year ago and people are fine going back to voting R.

geez, its almost as if half the country thinks all Dem power is illegitimate and that therefore the events of Jan 6 were rad as hell

Genius TMac mailer. pic.twitter.com/jAWr3SwZfp

— Phil Kerpen (@kerpen) September 14, 2021

jesus christ if that's what they're gonna do in 2022 they are truly fucked

gah this shit just fucking gets me incensed. I understand that the pendulum swings in this country but it sucks so fucking much that Trump was able to replace an entire third of the judiciary, including 3 goddamn Supreme Court justices, and incite this country into a literal insurrection, while when the pendulum swings our way all we get is a shitty moderate who can't even rally his party to do the massively popular things he ran on

fucking white people

dems are gonna look themselves in the mirror, take a deep breath and tell themselves 'we gotta get more racist'

— raandy (@randygdub) November 9, 2016

Pretty sure Murphy pulls it out but this shit is way too close.

The republican candidate is so fucking bad too!

milo sharing that shit is not helpful

it is if you hate democrats above all else

just looking at headlines, but Youngkin winning over McAuliffe, a bad bad sign

and Ciattarelli over Murphy?

NJ will not be called until later this afternoon probably

we are fucked

and Byron Brown won as a write-in candidate over Democrat India Walton in Buffalo

people love the repubican party and its racist platform

critical race theory!!!

jesus

Heel yeah man

MSNBC blaming increasingly likely Democratic loss in Virginia on...Biden withdrawing from Afghanistan.

— Chip Gibbons (@ChipGibbons89) November 3, 2021

Hell

Dems should’ve locked the Manchin/Sinema/etc type members of the party in a janitorial closet the second Biden won to mobshit them from letting this stuff from happening.

milo sharing that shit is not helpful

Nothing helpful exists, tho. Not being snarky about Democratic incompetence and venality isn't going to make them any better. On a day when they trip over their own feet electorally, the news about the bill that has occupied the last nine months of their time is a laughable prescription reform and centrists trying to give money to rich people.

but I mean, the core of the randy tweet is also true so it's hard to even call it snark

Dem members are already texting me blaming progressives for “debacle” in Virginia https://t.co/MJnlDzW5WF

— Heather Caygle (@heatherscope) November 3, 2021

Democrats deserve to lose until they stop doing this https://t.co/1dKVK8YZ55

— i'm not here (@dkulchar) November 3, 2021

With everything going on it is absolutely wild how committed the Democratic Party is to polishing the balls of a guy like me: an exceedingly comfortable white straight cis male careening into middle age (and southern to boot. seriously, if you heard my accent you would literally never stop throwing up). I have no kids and will most likely be dead before major fallout from climate change hits, or at least I’ll be cosseted from the worst of it. My entire life’s savings is in stock index funds, and wouldn’t you know it there are only like three things both parties agree on without fail—one being Line Can Never Ever Go Down again . At this point I probably have more equity in my home than I paid for it, and I’m more or less a fucking LANDLORD loool.

If the Democratic Party wants to make *me* one of their top priorities I guess all I can say is “thanks, dummies”. But I’m sure af not giving them any more money. And honestly, barring a few outliers, probably not many votes either.

xp

From: Kamala Harris

Look ______,

These are DARK days. But there's still HOPE. Give $5 in the next 25 MINUTES, and you'll be added to our petition asking PRESIDENT CARLSON to SHUT DOWN the camps and entered into a raffle for dinner with CAMILA CABELLO!

Can we count on YOU?

— Osita Nwanevu (@OsitaNwanevu) October 20, 2021

XP

COOL FUCKING BRAG DOOD

cooool fucking party bro

I can't remember exactly which Democratic candidate sent me a mailer that looked like a collections notice but at a time when I was receiving actual collections notices for an old ER visit it did not put me in a supportive mood.

will, are you submitting to the Low poll?

honestly not intimate enough w them to do a poll submission. kind of a blind spot for me. I do like their ‘hits’ tho. or the ones I know anyway.

a fun thing to do when a former blue trifecta state plunges into ethno-fascism is “gloat”

virginia legitimately scares me, as a place

― certified juice therapist (harbl), Tuesday, November 2, 2021 8:37 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

It is Alabama with a thin Jeffersonian veneer.

a fun thing to do when a former blue trifecta state plunges into ethno-fascism is “gloat”

I don't know if it's that simple, looks like GOP turnout was way up in both VA and NJ which I don't think you can attribute to the Dems failing to deliver anything

_virginia legitimately scares me, as a place

― certified juice therapist (harbl), Tuesday, November 2, 2021 8:37 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink_


It is Alabama with a thin Jeffersonian veneer.

As a NJ resident, it's shocking to see this race so close. All the polls beforehand made it seem Murphy didn't have much to worry about. To be honest, I almost didn't bother to vote. I guess a lot of people probably saw the polls and thought like I did.

Obviously McAuliffe is a creep and he ran a terrible campaign that had no identifiable message unlike Youngkin and his constant drumming of “think of the children.”

Also Blame Dem primary voters who rejected two progressive black women.

I voted for Jennifer Carroll Foy, who might also have lost, but it would have felt like a nobler struggle. Perhaps there's an alternate universe in which she prevailed. McAuliffe, ugh, never presented a positive case. Just "I'm not the scary guy." Perhaps there are alternate universes where that worked.

This universe? Fucking sucks, is how I feel rn

As a NJ resident, it's shocking to see this race so close

i'm not shocked! The Murphy campaign reminded me a lot of Hilary 2016, he got outworked by Jack in a lot of areas and relied too much on big names showing up for him.

as a republican candidate right now all you have to do is complain about the highest property taxes in the country and that you will lower them, even if you have no plan on how to do so, and already have 48% of the vote.

finally some good news

BREAKING: @SenJeffMerkley announces he will oppose Rahm Emanuel nomination to be Amb. to Japan. Likely sinks it

— Erik Wasson (@elwasson) November 3, 2021

yeah let's just go ahead and clean out the Clinton-era fossils please

be glad not to hear that guys name again tbh

but i'm sure he'll just end up on msnbc panels anyways

polls are so increasingly useless (well aware of the confirmation bias I'm exhibiting)

do people just lie to pollsters more than ever now?

A pretty data-heavy breakdown of the mostly prejudiced treatment of critical race theory on social media here:
https://stoponlinevaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/CRT_-Controlled-by-Conservative-Media.31.pdf

At a high level, it is clear that white Conservative narratives (starting with Christian responses to the Southern Baptist Conference and including Conservative media and high profile individuals), have dominated the Facebook discourse around CRT since early in 2020. We found that Social Justice, Liberal/Progressive, and pages by Black-identified administrators accounted for a small fraction of the total posts on Facebook. By and large, Conservative posts did not include representation from Black Scholars but were much more likely to be shared than posts from Black-identified pages:
- Conservative and Republican pages comprised an overall 69.7% of the pages and 90.8% of the shares…
- Overall, Social Justice and Liberal/Progressive pages accounted for 8.2% of the posts and 4.6% of the shares.

do people just lie to pollsters more than ever now?

I've seen enough: Gov. Phil Murphy (D) defeats Jack Ciattarelli (R) in the New Jersey governor's race. #NJGOV

— Dave Wasserman (@Redistrict) November 3, 2021

In more important news, did JFK Jr. and The Rolling Stones jam last night?

polls are so increasingly useless (well aware of the confirmation bias I'm exhibiting)

Weren’t VA polls pretty much spot on?

yes, don't think any of this hinged on polling issues

As a NJ resident, it's shocking to see this race so close. All the polls beforehand made it seem Murphy didn't have much to worry about. To be honest, I almost didn't bother to vote. I guess a lot of people probably saw the polls and thought like I did.

I voted. My precinct got fancy new touch-screen machines, but they showed you your vote on a piece of paper before you hit the button to confirm it. I wasn't expecting an Adams-Sliwa style blowout, but I thought Murphy had it comfortably in the bag.

polls are so increasingly useless (well aware of the confirmation bias I'm exhibiting)
Weren’t VA polls pretty much spot on?

― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, November 3, 2021 10:56 AM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

see disclaimer

lol at repubs not knowing how counting works and thinking the fix is in because Bergen County was red late last night before they started counting mail-ins and flipped this morning to blue.

In more important news, did JFK Jr. and The Rolling Stones jam last night?

I shouted out, "who killed the Kennedys"
When after all, it was Hill-a-REEE

so do Republicans now trust the results of elections or what

lol at repubs not knowing pretending they don't know how counting works and thinking pretending the fix is in because Bergen County was red late last night before they started counting mail-ins and flipped this morning to blue.

Which keeps their base angry and more inclined to try to stop mail in voting.

Virginia's result showed that very generous early voting rules (don't know about absentee ballots) doesn't necessarily hurt Republicans.

I do think the wildly inaccurate NJ polling contributed to the already prevalent Democrat complacency. It seems GOP often outperforms in off-cycle/mid-term elections. For an older GOP voter, voting is probably the high point of their week. For the younger skewing typical Democratic voter, actually having to go somewhere in physical form and wait in line seems horribly old-fashioned and crimps their style.

what about if there's pizza

These are people who will use DoorDash if it means not having to put on pants.

we need voting apps

Lifelong Virginia voter here: I question the received wisdom on "Democrat complacency."

First let me acknowledge that I live in a very Democratic bubble (like, knowing multiple people with "nevertheless, she persisted" tattoos kind of bubble). In addition to voting, many of us donated, volunteered, went door-to-door, canvassed, phone-banked, put out signs, did GOTV shiznit, yadda yadda.

Let me say this: I do not know a Democrat who did not vote. Zero. None. Nada. Zilch. We all got the fuck off the couch and went as absentee, in-person absentee, mail-in, witnessed, non-witnessed, and GAH ASKDJFAKJTILEJG FOR FUCK'S SAKE WE HAD THE OPTION OF CURBSIDE VOTING THIS YEAR! um, ahem, we had multiple modalities of voting available to us.

At some point we need to consider that maybe there are... in some places at some times... just not quite enough of "us."

And DEFINITELY not enough persuadable independents / nonvoters / disaffected moonbeams who don't feel we are focused enough on their personal fruity-ass wish list.

signed, privileged-ass white boy who volunteered for Doug Wilder

this is one take

Democrats got more votes than they ever had in a Virginia gubernatorial election and lost. Lots of people invested in "we need to excite the base" takes, but the base turned out. https://t.co/XvWEY4kza5

— David Weigel (@daveweigel) November 3, 2021

i haven't seen anyone account for the fact that the population of VA is growing. maybe not enough to make this take wrong though. i.e. dems did a basically ok job of turning out their base with anti trump messaging. the problem here seemed to be that VA has enough swing voters who are willing to vote republican if trump isn't on the ballot to make the difference, especially when combined with the schools stuff, e.g.

Virginia 2020 —> White women
50% Biden (D), 49% Trump (R)

Virginia 2021 —> White women
57% Youngkin (R), 43% McAuliffe (D)

A 15-point swing to the GOP with this group.

(via @NBCNews Exit Polls)

— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) November 3, 2021

that general situation seems like it will still be the case in 2022 :-(

i hate to say it but i think the best chance the dems have is if trump is on the ballot in 2024 tbh, because the anti-trump vote is going to wither away if he doesn't run, and the dems are obviously not doing enough in DC to excite the base otherwise.

yeah mcauliffe got 200,000 more votes than Northam did in 2017 (which was enough for northam to win in a landslide)

VA and NJ seems to be quite different cases. Fully willing to believe base was energized in VA. I didn't see evidence of that in NJ.

here are my anecdotes. i just moved to st. louis (city, not county). last night i met my three neighbors in the building (it's four units). the first was a 23-year-old conservative who only got vaccinated because he had to for work. but he was nice, and i got him high and then he drank all my whiskey. decent kid, tbh. the second was someone my mom's age who thinks covid is a hoax and that ivermectin is great. (i gave her the blunt "that's what my dad thought too. he just died of covid, and my mom still refuses to get vaccinated. they're both wrong" speech that i've typed many times but rarely spoken, and she responded that my mom was right to refuse to get vaccinated still.) the third neighbor knocked on my door at 11:00 pm to ask me to be quiet. i was playing Meitei's Komachi on one speaker (don't have the other one wired yet) at an ambient volume, such that it couldn't be heard at all when the heat came on.

we're all fucked

Morning, Karl!

ok so Karl Malone - an ilx hero, a stalwart warrior whose steadfastness I have oft admired - is embracing the "we're all fucked" take.

caek is on to something with

dems did a basically ok job of turning out their base with anti trump messaging. the problem here seemed to be that VA has enough swing voters who are willing to vote republican if trump isn't on the ballot to make the difference

Which echoes my kinda-insane rant from a few minutes ago

Lifelong Virginia voter here: I question the received wisdom on "Democrat complacency."

First let me acknowledge that I live in a very Democratic bubble (like, knowing multiple people with "nevertheless, she persisted" tattoos kind of bubble). In addition to voting, many of us donated, volunteered, went door-to-door, canvassed, phone-banked, put out signs, did GOTV shiznit, yadda yadda.

Let me say this: I do not know a Democrat who did not vote. Zero. None. Nada. Zilch. We all got the fuck off the couch and went as absentee, in-person absentee, mail-in, witnessed, non-witnessed, and GAH ASKDJFAKJTILEJG FOR FUCK'S SAKE WE HAD THE OPTION OF CURBSIDE VOTING THIS YEAR! um, ahem, we had multiple modalities of voting available to us.

At some point we need to consider that maybe there are... in some places at some times... just not quite enough of "us."

And DEFINITELY not enough persuadable independents / nonvoters / disaffected moonbeams who don't feel we are focused enough on their personal fruity-ass wish list.

signed, privileged-ass white boy who volunteered for Doug Wilder

...which I have no intention of softening or retracting or whatever

KM, maybe we should make deprogramming your decent neighbor our pet project. Tell him you have some "friends" on the internet who want to chat with him.

but not share their whiskey

"i was playing Meitei's Komachi on one speaker"

holy shit of all the albums to get a noise complaint about

(Just remember, when the normals show up, we're all 'moderate'/'independent'.)

ok so Karl Malone - an ilx hero, a stalwart warrior whose steadfastness I have oft admired - is embracing the "we're all fucked" take.

caek is on to something with

ty but i also think we're all fucked, just to be clear.

New: At least 6 Republicans who attended the Jan. 6 rally which turned into the insurrection were elected to office on Tuesday https://t.co/3iLFYsm7BN

— Christopher Mathias (@letsgomathias) November 3, 2021

holy shit of all the albums to get a noise complaint about

seriously, that anecdote/experience only makes sense to ambient heads, but it was unbelievable.

Yes let's deprogram neighbors one at a time, which, let's see, multiplied by two to seven million neighbors (depending on distribution in key precincts / districts), um, carry the two... is... maybe we're all fucked

"we're all fucked" was kind of a joke.

but definitely if we do turn out to be fucked, i will later say that i thought it was possible

i have to say, the 23-year-old conservative may very well have a chance. i talked to him for about an hour. he's stuck in "let me play devil's advocate here" mode, but so was i at that age.

i can fix him

Okay so let's factor in the cost of midrange whiskey...

yup

we're fucked

Maybe if we bring out the good whiskey? I have some Woodford Reserve I will happily donate to the cause of unfucking the nation.

I don't think "we're all fucked" should be a controversial take at this point.

Yes let's deprogram neighbors one at a time, which, let's see... is... maybe we're all fucked

"We're fucked" is a given in any proposals I put forth, maybe I should have been more clear.

KM seriously tho I wonder if any of that generation can be reached without a deep dive into the slimier political corners of Instagram and Reddit to understand specifically which sort of disingenuous bad-faith concern trolling the individual is susceptible to.

xp

Not with that attitude, jon. You're probably still offering Jim Beam or something.

At least get some Maker's Mark and let's get this country back on track.

xp this kid was so kind that he venmo'd me $50 for the whisky he drank and the glass pipe he dropped and broke. except he was drunk so he accidentally venmo'd me $150. I sent it all back this morning :)

xp viborg

i wonder that too. but, a good sign: he's a total gaming nerd, and i showed him my Steam (pc games) collection and he likes a lot of the solo simulation/strategy games that i do. so we have that in common. and also, we "broke bread" and hung out on my couch for a while, and got along ok, and he seemed to actually be listening to the things i said. he was ignoring his girlfriend's calls and he called out sick this morning with a hangover, but still, i think we made good progress

Maybe we're overthinking this, Karl. St. Louis is a beer city. Let's get Schlafly on board somehow.

(the brewery, not Phyllis)

it all goes back to public citizen/private partnerships. we all need to get sponsored by our favorite companies

A lot of progressives across the country as well as in Buffalo were enthused by what a few months ago had seemed like the near certainty that India Walton, a self-described democratic socialist who won the Democratic primary against longtime Mayor Byron Brown, would be the next Mayor of Buffalo. But it appears that Mayor Byron Brown has managed a comeback victory as a write-in candidate.

...To me though the big lesson here is that it is unbelievably hard to win an election as a write-in candidate. We don’t know the margin of Brown’s apparent victory yet. At the moment it’s about 40% of the votes for Walton and roughly 60% are write-ins. Presumably virtually all of those write-ins are for Brown. But given the nature of write-ins those ballots all have to be visually inspected. There are already a lot of claims that the fix was somehow in for Brown, the establishment candidate. That’s the wrong lesson. When you manage to lose that decisively to a write-in candidate the only reasonable interpretation is that the city’s voters didn’t want you to be mayor. Period.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/india-walton-goes-down-to-defeat-to-write-in-mayor

i'm not in full on catastrophe mode yet, but it strikes me that since i don't have family and don't own a home, i might be able to truly "escape" America before 2022/24 hits

I do wonder what the strategy for the Dems is going forward. I get that McAuliffe ran an uninspiring campaign and it's probably a big mistake to talk a lot about Trump in elections where he's not even running...but he got more votes than Northam did. It's the Republican base that's energized, despite the fact that the Dems have done basically nothing, and that Trump before them didn't really deliver a damn thing either (for those making less than $50,000,000). not only is the deck massively stacked in the GOP's favor, but there is legitimately no political gravity on their side, as posted above you can incite a goddamn insurrection and pay zero price for it. not only that but Congress is fucked to the point where Dem senators representing like 70% of the population can get their entire agenda shuttered by a single moderate. What do they do?

Personally, I think it starts with messaging, which they are incredibly bad at. Biden is getting hammered about Afghanistan (not saying it's relevant here) & his bill is just a constant source of "Dems in disarray" stories, and none of that is coming with any pushback. They aren't blitzing the media the way the GOP does, they aren't really making a case for themselves, they sure as hell aren't accomplishing anything, it's all "remember Trump" and "remember 1/6" and dumb little "pass it on" messages about climate change. Is it really smart to lean into the more progressive wing of the party, given that Bernie got defeated pretty soundly by Biden and progressives aren't really tearing it up at the polls either? I don't really have the answers. But they really need to figure this out quick.

i'm sure they'll figure it out soon

blitzing the media the way the GOP does

for all the talk of the biased MSM they are pretty shitty with their both sides crap and bad headlines while fox and the like are squarely in their corners.

I'm sort of in the "we're all fucked" camp. Messaging, sure, but if the other side just doesn't give a shit about honesty (intellectual or literal), and has a sizable chunk that is either essentially voting/running on restricting rights and overturning elections for make-believe reasons, or has fallen so deep into dystopian fantasy that they believe Jesus/JFK Jr./whomever is coming back from the dead to reinvade Afghanistan because Toni Morrison is making our kids trans, and also covid is fake but so is the vaccine, which is why they took (real) horse dewormer to counter the (fake) virus, then how do you counter that? You just end up wasting all your time and energy and money and oxygen and capital trying to convince a fraction of them that, yes, the world is round and the sky is blue, and meanwhile the rest of them will push back with all their might and ignorance against even the most basic stuff that really shouldn't need correction, amplification or affirmation.

blitzing the media the way the GOP does

there's also the thought of what this world would be like if that "worked" for democrats. breitbart/carlson/levin on the right, and some equivalent on the left, creating a bubble of complete nonsense on the left. of course that bubble of nonsense on the left already exists, but it's nowhere near the size/influence of the right. but if it were to grow and counter the GOP's nonsense? maybe that would work, politically, but man, what a shitty world

JoshinC sadly approaching otm, and I am a latecomer to this viewpoint (having imbibed straight hopey-changey-yes we can stuff since 92ish)

When you manage to lose that decisively to a write-in candidate the only reasonable interpretation is that the city’s voters didn’t want you to be mayor. Period.

As a Democrat, Brown won by a roughly 2-to-1 margin in both 2013 (vs. a Republican) and 2017 (vs. a Reform Party candidate). Which means there are about 30% of voters in Buffalo who prefer whichever candidate is on the right. This year, *Brown* was the candidate on the right. (There was no Republican on the ballot.) So he managed to pick up votes both from Democrats scared off by socialism and from a bunch of Republicans and independents who viewed him as the lesser of two evils.

I was seeing some stuff about Walton making disastrous choices wrt unions during the campaign.

Yeah, tbh, I wasn't following the campaign at all and so was surprised at the strength of the write-in campaign, especially after Walton was endorsed by statewide Democrats, but once I saw that Walton and Brown were effectively the only two candidates, it made more sense.

Is it really smart to lean into the more progressive wing of the party, given that Bernie got defeated pretty soundly by Biden and progressives aren't really tearing it up at the polls either?

Tbh 'progressive' is such a vague term, encompassing a very wide range of political views. If we're to trust polling then it would seem to indicate broad public support for progressive action on economic issues, while progressive positions on social issues are much more controversial. To me this clearly ties in with the DLC wing of the party's insistence on focusing solely on progressive social issues lest they stray too far left on economics and offend their corporate sponsors. Meanwhile Republicans are apparently motivated almost solely by their conception of a "culture war" in which they become enraged by the inappropriate use of smears ostensibly based on left wing economic policy but which are in reality used to attack opponents for their positions on social issues. I'm saying "let's just cede the fight over critical race theory" but that A) twitter is not a real place; and B) maybe let's thinking about sending the Manchins and Sinemas a memo to let them know it's time to either crap or get off the pot.

"maybe let's think" <EDIT> <EDIT> shit

xp jaymc

but still, i think there was only one name on the ballot: walton. i understand that Brown, a Democrat was effectively the only other option for voters, but all those voters still had to write-in his name (or use a rubber stamp - apparently Brown's campaign spent $100K on little rubber stamps for people to use to write stamp-in his name on the ballot). to get trounced by write-in is pretty extraordinarily bad

I get what you're saying Josh but lets not forget that the QAnon/MTG/Jan 6 crowd is a pretty small slice of Republicans, and that something like 60% of Republicans have gotten at least one shot of the vaccine, so idk if we're really at "no one can be reasoned with". One issue that Dems seem to have is that there's such a broad distrust of government and the media, and I think Biden walking back most of his campaign promises for fucking SALT repeal isn't really helping there.

another thing is that Dem politicians are so fucking boring and focus grouped, one would think they'd loosen up a bit since Trump was elected but putting all the cards on the table for the 78 year old Joe Biden indicates they haven't really learned anything. I feel like a lot of Obama's popularity stemmed from his personality and general likeability. he seemed like someone you wanted to be around. they've got nobody like that now and that is why I see fucking Ted Cruz's face these days more than any Democrat save Biden himself

60% of Republicans have gotten at least one shot of the vaccine

Miami-Dade Republicans, ladies and gents.

The issue is less about whatever percentage of the GOP constituency still has a grip on some degree of sanity and more about an increasing percentage of their representatives who are kowtowing to the constituency whose marbles have long ago rolled down the storm drain.

And if the supposedly-sane GOP-ers are still showing up in droves to vote for Larry Insurrectionstoker, there's no effective difference between the two.

^^^^ otm

The (even more) extreme wing of the GOP might be a minority, but there are still millions and millions of them, enough so that it regularly takes an all-out struggle for Dems to come out on top when they seemingly hold even a modest advantage. All the reactionary other side has to do is invoke a book most of them have never read and an academic philosophy most of them don't understand to get a surge of votes, and those are the ones that aren't just inventing or pursuing outright bullshit. Like, at least "Beloved" and CRT are *real*. I mean, sure, 60% of Republicans got a shot, but 40% of the GOP not getting vaxxed ... that's a *huge* number! If 40% of your party is basically beyond reason, then it ultimately doesn't really matter if 30% of them are slightly more reasonable than the utterly batshit last 10%. The 30% and the 10% still mostly vote the same as the other 60%.

So, yeah, see above.

Is it really smart to lean into the more progressive wing of the party, given that Bernie got defeated pretty soundly by Biden and progressives aren't really tearing it up at the polls either?

Leaning into the progressive wing might be a massive failure - but the centrist project also doesn't work so YOLO. The Democrats lost hundreds or maybe even a thousand offices nationally post-2008, so technocratic efficiency doesn't seem to be a better plan than moonshot ideas. Those moonshots also remain popular - a lot of the crosstalk between certain wings/politicians being unpopular and the ideas being popular is what we saw in 2020 primary polls. Voters liked Bernie's ideas better but don't expect politicians to ever deliver so they might as well go for one the one deemed (by the media, natch) a safer choice to beat Trump. The only way you can combat that nihilism is delivering. Oops.

The numbers were starker than ever in VA about "white, college-educated" and "white, non-college-educated" - so in the medium to long game, creating more college grads should be a Democratic strategy right? But we can't even get 50 of them onboard for free community college.

But we can't even get 50 of them onboard for free community college.

google translate: but we only got 98% of them onboard for free community college

i know, i know - there are a handful of secret democrats who hate community college but are happy to let manchin destroy it instead. so maybe the number's more like 90% of them.

22% of voters turned out in Seattle, and we're getting the mayor whose platform for reforming policing was "force every officer to watch the George Floyd video and withhold a Friday afternoon pizza party if they do a racist murder that week"

I don't care if the entire Democratic senatorial caucus secretly hates the progressive agenda, as long as they keep it a deep, dark secret and vote for the legislation. Their votes matter. Their secret feelings don't.

google translate: but we only got 98% of them onboard for free community college

So what? Does it feel better to lose by 2 than by 20 if it's still not going to be the law?

As I clean my sniper rifle in the Potable Water War of 2040, "well, we had 35 Senate Democrats on board for fighting climate change so at least someone cared."

Even though Murphy (D) eked out a statewide win, Dems' collapse in blue-collar parts of South Jersey is breathtaking - including State Senate President Steve Sweeney (D) currently trailing a truck driver who spent $153. #NJGOV

— Dave Wasserman (@Redistrict) November 3, 2021

How much of the present situation, I wonder, is sheer, blinkered COVID-related frustration?

How much of the present situation, I wonder, is sheer, blinkered COVID-related frustration white resentment?

― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, November 3, 2021 6:44 PM (eight seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

Time for another stimmy check IMO

the school stuff is mostly drummed up by koch dark money, but that was only possible because of covid. without covid, a lot of parents would have no idea what their kids were learning in schools. that combined with them being told CRT is bad by the tv is a good trick for the GOP.

I apologize, that's not aimed at you necessarily! But when I hear about all this backlash etc etc all I can see is a huge blinking "white resentment" sign.

Yes, white resentment is some of it, but is it all of it?

Biden's approval has dropped 20 points with Black voters since August, I don't know that "white resentment" is a fully coherent explanation for the political winds.

No worries!

Time for another stimmy check IMO

Today, I'm introducing the Monthly Economic Crisis Support Act to provide $2,000 every month throughout this crisis.

I've been saying it for months: a one-time payment is not enough when millions of people are unemployed and need to eat. We need bold action, immediately.

— Vice President Kamala Harris (@VP) May 8, 2020

Or about 12 points each with Black and Hispanic Americans since August if you prefer 538's aggregate polling.

well, at least this is nice

Breaking: House Democrats are putting paid family and medical leave back into their Build Back Better framework.

— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 3, 2021

As I clean my sniper rifle in the Potable Water War of 2040, "well, we had 35 Senate Democrats on board for fighting climate change so at least someone cared."

the Dems are gonna be in a situation where they need like 60% of the popular vote to get the slimmest margin which is what causes so many moderates to win. if they're serious about maintaining any semblance of power they need to start talking about abolishing the EC, adding DC statehood, preventing gerrymandering, etc.

putting stuff in, taking stuff out, but is there ever going to be a vote?

what's happened to the (extremely bad) idea that it has to be childcare OR pre-k but not both? https://newrepublic.com/article/163991/funding-universal-prek-childcare

Jayapal says changes being made to SALT will be enough to win over House progressives

— Manu Raju (@mkraju) November 3, 2021

they're going to cap it, so rich assholes e.g. me get a big deduction, but the really rich assholes don't get an even bigger deduction.

The white/black resentment is because the dems are a party of losers who love losing. Biden should have been calling out weak dems all year on Twitter and absolutely ROASTING republicans who were trying to block all of his (WIDELY POPULAR) agenda. Instead, we got the same old hapless pre-negotiating themselves out of a deal, and surrogates whining about Machin/Sinema. The dems are in favor of popular ideas. RUN ON THEM FOR REAL! Instead, they try to appeal (again and again and again and again) to republicans.

Like Milo wrote, we don't know if running full-throated progressives will work, because the dems never fucking try it. And the ones who, against the odds, make it to Congress, either get co-opted, sidelined, or pushed out. The dem leadership is a bunch of corrupt decrepit idiots who need to be ushered into a rocket and blasted into the sun.

Notable recent outbreak of OTMness in this thread.

Thanks to you all for that, even if none of us has a fucking clue what to do about it in any kind of constructive way

as for this

if they're serious about maintaining any semblance of power they need to start talking about abolishing the EC, adding DC statehood, preventing gerrymandering, etc.

Well they are talking about those things. But - in an amusing self-perpetuating twist that will surprise no one - they do not have the power to unilaterally do any of the things that will cause them to have the power to do any of the things that would be helpful

You need to obtain power to obtain power

You need to tell people, convincingly, what you would do with power once you get it, other than fucking bring people together.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Pentagon watchdog finds no negligence in mistaken drone strike that killed Afghan civilians, official tells AP.

— philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) November 3, 2021

Well that's settled then

abolishing the EC, adding DC statehood, preventing gerrymandering

yes, these are huge roadblocks to change. the USA was designed that way and the national mythology has created a deep reservoir of unmerited reverence for that design, even among citizens who are robbed of power because of those roadblocks. it's part of the innate conservatism of white America, but it's strong among recent immigrants, too.

milo- But we can't even get 50 of them onboard for free community college.

karl-google translate: but we only got 98% of them onboard for free community college

milo-So what? Does it feel better to lose by 2 than by 20 if it's still not going to be the law?

no, not at all, it's not about that. it's about accuracy, and actually hope, believe it not. you know we're fucked when I'M the one with the message of hope, but if there is going to be any chance of getting across the 50-vote line in the next 10 years, it's better for people to be thinking "wow we're 98% of the way there already!" than it is for them to hear "can't even get the exact number we need, it's pointless"

Well they are talking about those things. But - in an amusing self-perpetuating twist that will surprise no one - they do not have the power to unilaterally do any of the things that will cause them to have the power to do any of the things that would be helpful

true, and I'm not saying I think they can get it done, but they need to be getting the message out there. the system is rigged against you, make sure the voters know why. it is a goddamn travesty that the #1 issue for Republicans is some dumb bullshit that doesn't even fucking exist while for Dems "climate change" is barely in the top 5 despite being a literal existential threat that will affect everything. Donald Trump came up with the "build a wall between us and Mexico" line, a thing that is literally impossible to do, and got nearly every single Republican voter and lawmaker behind it. I know Dems can't just pull things out of their ass like that because it's not just about culture wars for them but all these folks wanna talk about is Trump cuz he's such an easy target.

You could introduce amendments and/or legislation tomorrow to abolish the EC, add DC statehood, and prevent gerrymandering. Expand the Supreme Court too.

The progress of those measures would be impaired by exactly the same forces that are halting progress today. And you'd still be light-years away from M4A, let alone UBI or serious action on climate.

Reform measures are like peeing yourself while wearing a dark suit, you get a warm feeling and no one notices.

as miserable and glum and cynical as i can be, i at least need to maintain hope that there is something better coming in the future.

it's the narcissism of small differences, but i find the "NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY" voices on the left to be incredibly annoying. it's like you feel better when the world gets worse because it means you were right. and god, even the optimistic scenario of that person, in which finally the world actually DOES get better and there's a revolution and AOC is president and everything is perfect, that same person would be like "SEEEEEEEEEEEEE, if they would have done what *I* said from the beginning, see, I was right". it's like there is no scenario in which this is not just totally fucking annoying

like I'm not really a savant for politics, I watch some late night talk shows and read about politics on Twitter and on here. I have no idea what the Dems are trying to do right now. I don't know what their concerns are. when Trump was president, I knew every fucking thought that popped into his head.

Reform measures are like peeing yourself while wearing a dark suit, you get a warm feeling and no one notices.

https://i.imgur.com/BBO6LMj.jpg

it's like you feel better when the world gets worse because it means you were right.

this is my dad on his football team

it's the narcissism of small differences, but i find the "NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY" voices on the left to be incredibly annoying. it's like you feel better when the world gets worse because it means you were right. and god, even the optimistic scenario of that person, in which finally the world actually DOES get better and there's a revolution and AOC is president and everything is perfect, that same person would be like "SEEEEEEEEEEEEE, if they would have done what *I* said from the beginning, see, I was right". it's like there is no scenario in which this is not just totally fucking annoying

Have you considered that people not of the good vibes only school are expressing their opinions and beliefs rather than asserting their superiority over you?

have you considered that there are 1 shades of gray between black and white?

why would i ever interact with anyone at all who is of the "good vibes only" school?

1 was a placeholder while i looked up the scientific fact on this. there are

10000000000000000000000000 shades of gray between black and white

the only place where there "good vibes only" is heaven, and that's why i would never go there

they wouldn't let you in

i didn't get sent to hell, i quit heaven!

I have no idea what the Dems are trying to do right now. I don't know what their concerns are.

This is an unfortunate effect of cobbling together a Big Tent political party out of many disparate interest groups. As the reigning 'party in power' they don't have the luxury of announcing a laundry list of legislative goals that the party intends to accomplish until they've figured out which piecemeal list of policy goals, plucked from the grab bag of interests, can actually muster the votes to pass. This problem becomes nearly insoluble when the party is forced to kowtow to a nonsensical senator like Sinema, who refuses to pin down what she wants to accomplish, even in private conversations with party leadership.

re: Sinema, metaphorically speaking the democratic leadership is trying to horse trade with someone who doesn't have a horse and doesn't want one.

$72k!!!!

Updated @TaxFoundation distributional estimate for raising the SALT cap to $72,500. About 80% of the benefit goes to those earning over $200K.

Biggest winners are those earning between $250K and $1M. https://t.co/DuSWgcIsU4 pic.twitter.com/xpyNtrGgjQ

— Garrett Watson (@GS_Watson) November 3, 2021

congratulations to the 90th-98th percentiles i guess

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ pic.twitter.com/0hpHkMHQcg

— Osita Nwanevu (@OsitaNwanevu) November 3, 2021

It's a challenge to his donors.

Why bother texting a reporter that you’re putting paid leave back in without asking President Manchin first?!

it's the narcissism of small differences, but i find the "NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY" voices on the left to be incredibly annoying. it's like you feel better when the world gets worse because it means you were right. and god, even the optimistic scenario of that person, in which finally the world actually DOES get better and there's a revolution and AOC is president and everything is perfect, that same person would be like "SEEEEEEEEEEEEE, if they would have done what *I* said from the beginning, see, I was right". it's like there is no scenario in which this is not just totally fucking annoying

― Karl Malone, Wednesday, November 3, 2021 2:12 PM (forty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Thank you. If you can't inject some hope into your message, your message is gonna be a real hard sell to those who aren't already onboard. At their worst, the two ends of the spectrum just become about nursing different varieties of grievance.

If you’re running for office or issue canvassing, that might be true. If you’re posting on ILX or Twitter I can’t see how “selling” anyone anything is the goal.

I guess if you're looking for hope all I can say is that things change really, really quickly in American politics these days. like the rate of change itself seems to be accelerating. maybe the writing is on the wall for Dems to get slaughtered in 2022 and 2024 right now, but so much is going to happen between now and then.

I can’t see how “selling” anyone anything is the goal

We know, we know, we fuckin' know.

Right-o! If you’re posting on ILX or Twitter it's really just about nursing different varieties of grievance.

I don't think the issue is not being sold hope, it's the cumulative effect of watching the Dems continually douse even the smallest spark of hope with a big, liquidy shit time and time again.

Always surprised to find out the worst Joe is still alive.

Joe Lieberman urges Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema to fight Biden agenda as he fought Obama https://t.co/Wl1L7dvOEa by @EoinHiggins_

— Ryan Grim (@ryangrim) November 3, 2021

Zip it, Droopy.

In terms of souring voters' takes, especially, this traffic jam etc. seems like it might be a key cock-up:

from Monday's Politico Nightly
By ELANA SCHOR

With help from Renuka Rayasam

BREAKING UP IS HARD TO DO — It’s the arranged marriage that promises to ruin Democrats’ year. But nearly three months ago, the Senate majority leader described the match in glowing terms.

Centrists and liberals “need each other,” Chuck Schumer told our reporters back in August. “The moderates couldn't pass a bipartisan bill without the more progressive wing of our caucus,” Schumer said, referring to the $550 billion infrastructure bill that’s idling in the House after its Senate passage.

“And the progressives couldn’t get a big, bold bill without the moderates,” Schumer added. That “bold bill” is the roughly $1.75 trillion social spending framework that could get a House vote as soon as this week.

Occasionally shorthanded as the “two-track strategy,” what Schumer described was the bet that Democratic leaders have repeatedly raised in order to advance their and the president’s agenda: Get progressives to back an infrastructure bill shaped with GOP input (i.e. not as liberal as they’d like) and, in exchange, get centrists to back a party-line social spending bill shaped with no GOP input (i.e. too liberal for their tastes).

This strategy likely would have worked a lot better had both bills been ready for action at the same time. But as it stands, the infrastructure measure is mired in the House awaiting an elusive consensus on the social spending measure. And the longer that both bills sit in the House, the more those centrist and liberal wings forget why they got engaged in the first place.

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) today bluntly told the House that “it’s time to pass” the infrastructure bill. Days after they balked at exactly that vote, progressives now sound ready to heed his instructions — even as the social spending bill they wanted to wait for is no closer to quick passage than it was last week.

Before today, progressives, as much as Schumer, were insistent on sticking to the two-track strategy. Both party leaders and the left seemed to have decided that the only way to lock in centrist votes for their social spending vision was to hold up the infrastructure bill at the altar in the House, awaiting its promised legislative spouse.

But the nuptials may have finally been called off, as Democratic confidence that weeks of delay on infrastructure would help pass the social spending framework looks increasingly misplaced. Manchin referred to the bipartisan Senate-passed measure as a “hostage” today. Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.), looking at a home-state gubernatorial race where his party’s nominee is floundering, is getting increasingly vocal in his criticism of the holdup.

And while that duo are as centrist as two Democrats might come, progressives are sounding more eager to pass infrastructure as they get more evidence that they’ve pushed the rest of their party about as far as possible on social spending. It’s entirely possible that both bills will make it to lawful bliss on Biden’s desk – though less and less likely that they’ll stay connected, given that House passage of the social spending package will presage a much longer Senate consideration.

From the start, Democrats never quite agreed on timing for these bills even as they set and missed repeated deadlines.

Now we’re seeing their time — as well as their political capital — run short.

weeks of delay seems longer

I feel like a boomer asking this but wouldn't voters and uncertain voters get behind a house and senate that voted on individual bills that are transparent? Like today we're voting on the "Student Loan Reform" Now it's the "Child Tax Credit" Seems simple to me but it's one of the many reasons I have little faith in the government of either party since the Iraq war.

those individual bills would all get filibustered

You have to tie bills together to get them passed (same as it ever was) and no one would actually care anyway. 'Individual bills' is one of those supposedly common man appeal things that matter less to people than getting the shit they want.

Yeah. Infrastructure bill ff passed by House, is a "single" yet def omnibus bill, like The Other One.

it's a great question, though - why can't bills just be raised and voted on in that simple way? the first answers are correct, and there's more to add to that. but the first question is the important part. it's really sad that things can't be addressed in that way, via a vote on a single issue, to see where people stand.

the more complicated the legislative process is, the more opportunities there are for shenanigans and distortions. i think that's one of my more conservative opinions actually

why can't bills just be raised and voted on in that simple way?

Long Answer: because the men who ran everything when the US constitution was written and the senate formed its filibuster tradition hated and feared democracy. since then these roadblocks have served as a fortress against the nation having 'too much' democracy and the powerful, or simply those groups most favored by this system such as the smaller or more rural states, have jealously guarded their continuation.

Short Answer: Mitch McConnell

Has this lady considered drinking some water?

"A gallon of milk was $1.99. Now it's $2.79. When you buy 12 gallons a week times four weeks, that's a lot of money."@EvanMcS goes grocery shopping with the Stotlers and shows us how badly inflation is hitting the middle class. pic.twitter.com/39hPPRHLja

— Brianna Keilar (@brikeilarcnn) November 4, 2021

To be fair, they do mention raising 9 children so I don't think 12 is that insane for a family of 11.

Still, it is an abso0lutely bizarre framing for the story and I'm sorry she hasn't shopped for milk since 1990 when it was last $1.99 or so.

I prescribe milk and trying some butt stuff going forward.

Water and butt stuff, time to skip the milk.

Powdered milk, then they'll know real suffering.

Part of the issue is that people don't need to drink that much milk— suggested servings of dairy are numbers pushed by the Dairy Industry.

Also, the idea of that much milk makes me want to fucking barf.

I see cold glasses of milk as a dinner table beverage and I don't understand. Mix a Negroni.

Not that I care to be captain save a dairy industry guy, but some of the middle America sneering on this board is so fucking gross. 9 kids eating cereal for breakfast every day is going to use up a lot of milk, it's not like these are weird aliens.

here's a Republican that just won in NJ

Wow sexy ass body

— Edward Durr (@edwarddurr1) February 14, 2018

I see cold glasses of milk as a dinner table beverage and I don't understand. Mix a Negroni.

My kids prefer aperol spritzes, but ok

a gallon of milk is like $5

I see cold glasses of milk as a dinner table beverage and I don't understand. Mix a Negroni.

Not for adults, but midwest kids got a cold glass of milk with every dinner whether you wanted it or not. Something I'm glad to have left in the past.

i'm a 2 gallon per month kind of milk drinker, so i get the good shit

I don't understand this.

i actually try to drink milk, when i can. i'm skin and bones and my butt hurts when i sit on non-padded surfaces. milk puts a thin protective layer of butt fat on me, barely there at all but enough to give me some comfort in this very sharp, solid world

I'm like you and I eat almonds instead.

down to the butthurt

oh i eat granola as well. that's to put some padding on my elbows so they don't snap in half

My dad drank a glass of milk with dinner every night until he died. Didn’t matter what was being eaten - steak/milk, catfish/milk, chicken fried rice/milk, taco night/milk. Awful.

Not for adults, but midwest kids got a cold glass of milk with every dinner whether you wanted it or not.

This is a *wild* generalization, also this is a ungodly amount of milk.

It's been so long since I drank actual from-a-cow milk that I literally can't remember how long it's been. I eat cheese twice, maybe three times a month, on pizza, but that's pretty much the extent of my dairy intake. The weird thing about that story isn't that a family of 11, nine of them kids, drinks a lot of milk - it's that CNN thought "let's interview these two psychos who have nine fucking kids to give the folks at home a sense of what life is like for Real Average Americans."

Even worse as he got older and his doctor made him switch to 2%.

what was his butt like, though?

(jk)

Blessedly not lactose intolerant.

milk is totally subsizdized as well. . . a daycare nearby gets a couple of gallons each week b/c of federal funding, and there is a certain amount they have to get otherwise they don't get the $, and they can't go through all the milk each week, they either give it away or chuck it. . . we're in the midwest btw

Milk contains more than I’d really thought about before, it seems.

This is a *wild* generalization, also this is a ungodly amount of milk.

I don't think it's that wild? I would say 80% of the kids I knew growing up had a glass of milk with dinner, but I did grow up in the middle of farm country. I'm not suggesting this was a universal experience, but I think some people itt are misremembering the extent to which milk was pushed back in the '70s and '80s.

I also don't think it's an "ungodly" amount of milk for a family of 11. It's a lot, for sure, but it's not the "holy shit, this is unbelievable" level that some are suggesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InOuPYCsUjs

my god I remember these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgQWXroVzS4

Not that I care to be captain save a dairy industry guy, but some of the middle America sneering on this board is so fucking gross. 9 kids eating cereal for breakfast every day is going to use up a lot of milk, it's not like these are weird aliens.

― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, November 4, 2021 5:57 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

jon, they'd have to be drinking more than a gallon a day PER PERSON, some of whom are small children. That's not remotely normal.

+1 for milk with dinner, I'm lacoste intolerant these days but my dad sneers at me for drinking wine as he downs two glasses of milk.

yeah they are totally weird aliens you don't need that much milk

It does the body good!

it def does stuff to yr body

we should poll this

totally

milk has more sugar in it than anything else iirc, it's not a great mass builder, just to give you all the sw0le perspective here

jon, they'd have to be drinking more than a gallon a day PER PERSON, some of whom are small children. That's not remotely normal.

This is not true. They are saying 12 gallons PER WEEK. 11 gallons per day per person would mean they are buying 132 gallons per week.

12 gallons per week / 11 person household means 1.09 gallons for each member for a week. Which, again, I would not argue is that weird.

"would argue is not that weird"

it's totally weird to drink a glass of milk w/every meal which is how much you'd have to drink

A gallon a week would not get you a glass for 21 meals. Christ.

I mean, if you consider 7 ounces enough sure, but I would also venture a guess that the majority of the milk in question is being used for kid's cereal.

I hate that I am even defending this, but some of you have such a bizarre take on this.

board desc

if milk is a huge part of these folks budget cool but to a lot of us it seems like an ungodly amount of milk not to mention a ridiculous amount of children. . . for which the parents likely got $ from Biden for the CTC, which this story fails to mention. it's a total strawmanny argument but keep on chuggin

https://media.giphy.com/media/l49JWPbCDpd0Xm5pu/giphy.gif

It's not "ungodly" though.

I still remember my oldest sister going away to university to become a dietician and returning to our Indiana home upon the first break to declare that we did not in fact need to drink a glass of milk with our spaghetti.

we were hosting Chinese students the summer of 2017 and this one 13-year-old girl would drink glass after glass of milk, we were going through a 6-pint bottle every day and she was taking more than half of it.

i love a good political debate about milk

Don't know what the debate was about, just wanted to join in the milk chat

Oh okay my math was off, fine. This is still a dumb non-story.

I can't find the tweet now bc I read it at like 6am but someone noted that they live in a half-mil+ dollar house in a neighborhood where the median home value is more like $200k, so if they had financial struggles there are a few things they could try before starting to death or dying of rickets.

* starving, obv

i was sincerely enjoying the milk talk! i'm actually drinking milk right now, because of it :D

Just 9 kids in a room...

milk chuggin is my fave dino jr b side

i was sincerely enjoying the milk talk! i'm actually drinking milk right now, because of it :D

― just staying (Karl Malone),

What gin did you pick to dilute it?

I wasn't trying to sneer at the midwest, jon. I was also told that I needed to drink a lot of milk growing up here in Philly, and I always thought it was disgusting!

i mean prices for everything have gone up though where i am, milk is obviously a dumb red herring. i don't care if people call it inflation or what, or whether or not it's rich people pointing it out, or which party it benefits politically to acknowledge it, but it seems pretty clear to me that most people aren't experiencing an "economic recovery" of any kind atm. they were when the government decided to give out free money, for two quarters, but that's been over for a while now and all signs from the party in power are pointing to "we need to go back to squeezing regular people as much as possible"

i mean prices for everything have gone up though where i am, milk is obviously a dumb red herring.

I have recently tried to give up eating meat as much as possible (I tend to have one "cheat day" per week) and I have noticed my grocery bills going down, but not as much as I expected them to.

No one in my house drinks milk from a glass, but cereal consumption is high.

My children consume so much cereal that it inspired me to rediscover cereal myownself. Like? DAMN. Cereal is really comforting. Any time of day. Perfect meal: refreshing, hearty.

Yeah, we've been doing cheaper meals even though we're both making pretty decent money at the moment, and I'm still sort of flabbergasted at how high the grocery bills are.

I haven't experienced supply or price problems, in part b/c my city is damn expensive anyway and I'm single. Gas prices are high, but they were high in 2018 or 2019.

Inflation's one of those things like baggage claim employees: the latter never get credit for doing well but instead get yelled at all day. Consumers love complaining about the high price of anything.

I also love cereal, with homemade oatmilk.

which, before anyone accuses me of being insane, is very very easy and quick to make.

politics, amirite.

Inflation's one of those things like baggage claim employees: the latter never get credit for doing well but instead get yelled at all day. Consumers love complaining about the high price of anything.

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, November 4, 2021 7:03 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

sorry but this is horseshit. prices for everything have gone up significantly and demonstrably since the first half of 2020. it's the kind of arrogant and out-of-touch thing that democrats tell themselves before they lose elections.

https://images.static-bluray.com/reviews/4245_1.jpg
milk sharpens you up for a bit of the ol' ultra-violence, no?

OK, I apologize. I haven't asked relatives with children because they're by varying degrees right wing zombies.

xpost

grana padano is the new parmigiano-reggiano. parmigiano-reggiano is now gold bullion.

Always cool to see the young Dalziel in that photo.

i assume "the young Dalziel" is a name for the move where you rest a glass of milk on your bulge

i don't know if it's gas companies squeezing prices based on perceived potential regulation or what, but the price of gas started going up significantly after the election, at least where i am - i realize a lot of this varies from region to region. i think it's a big part of why democrats are about to lose big time. working people just can't afford the costs of infrastructure upgrades that keep getting kicked down to them, so they're going to go with the other guy and kick the shit further down the chain. i keep seeing all this stuff from the dem/liberal side trying to pretend like this dynamic doesn't exist and it's frustrating.

Gas has gone up from two-something to $3.49 a gallon in NJ.

Is prices going up due to supply chain shortages because "just in time" logistics only works as long as nothing ever goes wrong, properly classified as "inflation"? Or just, like, a temporary shortage of a commodity?

Some of the high costs (prices average $3.25 here) have to do with the real supply problems + finding people who want to drive trucks at shit wages + oil commodity traders.

The ideal solution with more than a +1 Senate majority without shit bird legislators like Manchin getting industry kickbacks would've been to keep the stimulus checks coming (they had an effect!) until COVID numbers are severely low (not likely) or, to be cynical, until the '22 midterms.

it really doesn't matter what the reason is, but do we think prices for this stuff are going to go back down? gas, sure, possibly, but i've ... never seen that happen for a food or consumer product in my lifetime. meanwhile there's no evidence of wage increases whatsoever that i've seen. in spite of all this talk of "worker leverage"

many xposts - I wasn't trying to single anyone out, I was just annoyed by the incredulous level of response that was getting, like "this is INSANE can you BELIEVE the UNFATHOMABLE amounts of MILK these oddballs drink". It's definitely a terrible framing for the story CNN was trying to tell and obviously there are ways this particular family could cut back, but acting all shocked like this was some herculean, unheard of amount of milk consumption underscores how vastly different experiences are for people growing up in different pockets of the country.

It's a story made for Twitter.

"young Dalziel" is the actor on McDowell's right, who played the blunt but effective senior detective in Reginald Hill's "Dalziel and Pascoe" tv series.

jon just search and replace "arugula" to get a more coastal perspective

"latte" works in a pinch as well

Whether you're buying one gallon of milk or twenty gallons, the percentage increase is the same, so emphasizing the number of gallons purchased as adding up to "a lot of money" just confuses the issue.

I can't believe I'm still talking about this but...The fact that milk is read as a wholesome, rural countryside-related, all-American product thanks to generations of marketing and farm subsidies is completely obscuring the fact that this is an outsized expense. In another context, we'd all get told that we could solve the financial problems of 70 years of wage stagnation if only we had the self-control to give up lattes.

CNN is so terrible. I mean no surprise but just wow.

xxp THANK YOU

Lads i hear ye are talking milk im only hear to talk milk now

Also is a gallon like 4 litres that would make diesel her about 8 dollars a gallon or so

diesel milk????? no thank you!!!!

diesel her about 8 dollars a gallon or so

a small price to pay for improved performance

am i sorry for this post? a little bit, yes.

this is me resisting the urge to correct for US vs imperial gallons

different unit

thxbye

don't do it. would only raise hell.

lol at anybody choosing to have nine kids and complaining about the price of anything.

i heard there was milk chat going on, did i get here too latte??

Milk Mustaches - did any u.s. politician appear in one of those? Celebs like Arnold that later became political icons don’t count

https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.rogerebert.com/uploads/review/primary_image/reviews/the-straight-story-1999/straight-story-image.jpg

maybe having nine kids is just an attempt to get more milk

aw, caek, I love htat scene.

Like, you know what else is more expensive when you have nine kids? Literally everything.

Do you know how much the $1 value meal at McDonald's is when you have nine kids? $9!

yeah, the milk consumption might be within (the ridiculous) government guidelines. the 9 kids, however.

just watching your chance to ever reach san diego Monster Jam slip away with that 8th sibling

maybe having nine kids is just an attempt to get more milk

If there really was an equivalent left wing media outrage generation ecosystem, this would quickly become a very serious investigation and there would be accusations of trump voters having more children just so that they could buy even more milk

It’s all just so that when they’re putting the tenth gallon of milk on the conveyor belt, they can say “I have many children, and this is getting expensive. The milk consumption I mean”

time for Biden to implement a one child policy

"let's build up a high sensitivity to fluctuating milk prices" a common tinder line from dogs

sounds like a D. Boon lyric

Republicans are forcing cats to breed in order to drive up milk demand even more and crash the sustem

Some are calling Operation Kitty Licks

We’re all a little punchy this week, aren’t we

How much milk do you think Joe Manchin throws away every year

Not so much punchy as a little milky, imo.

If you have nine kids, how do you get them around? Do you drive a fucking bus? How much does a bus cost? Can't be cheap! Plus you need a big car to cart around all those groceries. 12 gallons of milk or whatever, that's like a whole trunk for most cars! How many refrigerators do you need?

What is the optimum number of kids for a person to have and what makes up that number

And they said one kid is a foster, which means they get gov't money that surely covers the milk bill.

The whole point of the milk price inflation story is that the middle class are suffering, dammit. In their own minds, that suffering is undeniably true and they are fed up and would like to have a word with the manager, who is Joe Biden.

optimum number is obviously zero considering climate change and our general impending doom etc., one for "jeez never doing that again" households, two or maaaaaybe three for reasons of having them be well-socialized, keeping each other busy, etc. (to be clear, i was the third and last my parents had, and intend on having no kids.)

trick question, dmac, nice try. it would depend entirely on how much milk you can carry home each day.

1 kid + 1 "old soul" is optimal

it's very tricky because 2 kids or 2 "old souls" is a nightmare

The sooner we instigate a one child policy that ends the suffering of the middle child forever, the better

optimum number is obviously zero considering climate change and our general impending doom etc., one for "jeez never doing that again" households, two or maaaaaybe three for reasons of having them be well-socialized, keeping each other busy, etc.

Actually the optimum number is negative, which is why I try to kill at least one child per year

I dunno about optimum number, but other things aside, probably not so many that you complain about the cost to buy them so much fucking milk.

I mean, the thought of 9 kids gives me waking nightmares even typing the phrase out, but they did mention that not all of them are biologically theirs, so it is possible that some of them might be kids they've taken in for other family members or something. Point being, sometimes it's not always an intentional plan to end up with that many kids.

You start out trying to balance the number of kids with the number of "old souls"

Or maybe they abducted them all, and it's just hiding in plain sight. If only they offered any suspicious clues to the outside world, like buying 12 gallons of milk a week.

Keep an eye on your mailboxes (while I gank all your milk)

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/04/politics/january-6-committee-subpoenas/index.html

If I was working the supermarket and somebody came in every week to buy 12 gallons of milk, I would probably call the SPCA or something. And then CPS next. And then whoever it is that makes Lactaid, with a hot lead for them.

Or maybe I would assume they were youtubers doing some sort of stupid hot chili challenge. Or maybe they keep getting sprayed by skunks. Or maybe they're trying to recreate the snare drum scene from the J. Geils Band's "Centerfold" video.
https://i0.wp.com/www.thenewdrummer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Steven-Bladd-Milk-Drums.gif?ssl=1

Regardless, the last thing I would assume is that someone was drinking 12 gallons of milk a week.

They had two kids and then adopted a family group of two, and then a family group of 3, and then a single kid, and are fostering one more single. I watched at least that much of the video.

You know what's really expensive? ADOPTIONS.

Seriously, as I understand it adopting kids costs tens of thousands of dollar.

Cards on the table i was poking to see how far the "dont have kids you cant afford lady" line would be taken and lads idk idk i really didnt expect the poke to run that easily that far

https://theintercept.com/2021/11/04/build-back-better-billionaire-tobacco-taxes/

Free the vapes

lol you guys been talking milk all day

lol you guys been talking milk all day

What else would we be talking about, as we sit around our kitchen table with our paper and pencils, if not gabbing about the finer details of our monthly budget, just like all those legendary working folk invoked by every politician for the last half century?

This seems bad.

GOP rushing to pass extreme gerrymandered US House maps:

-Rs would hold 86% of seats in OH where Trump got 53%

-71-78% of seats in NC where Trump got 49.9%

-75% of seats in WI where Trump got 49%

-65% of seats in TX where Trump got 52%

Dems running out of time to stop it

— Ari Berman (@AriBerman) November 4, 2021

maybe they can negotiate ohio down to like 84% of seats

How the fuck is that even allowed

how exactly can Dems 'stop it' other than challenging it in court, where ultimately, this SCOTUS (Even when it was only a 5-4 R majority) has set a precedent that it's not going to declare maps drawn by state governments as 'unconstitutional'? and often overrides lower court rulings in this regard.

just another example of Murc's law, it is fucked and a legit problem but Dems can't just magically make it go away.

i'm sure the "well they should do SOMETHING' is the current #1 suggestion rn.

https://thewhyaxis.substack.com/p/ugh-fine-lets-talk-about-milk

they get $2,500 in tax credits each month for those 9 kids, and inflation is 1/10 what they say it is. lol milk.

GOP has had the benefit for being a bunch of Teflon-dons and seemingly able to scheme through and obfuscate horrible policy decisions and results one after another for decades. They are that little shit 13 year old that sets the garbage can on fire and somehow gets away with screaming 'she did it' pointing at their sister and it works.

They have been pulling this BS off for like 30 years. Name anything and they have been on the wrong side of EVERYTHING except making the rich more f'n money. Democrats come into power and if they cannot wave a magic wand and try to act like an adult...my god they are such a failure. The people with money backing this crap and coming up with this critical race theory angle are laughing their ass off. But hey they be 'getting paid and gettin' laid' and screw all ya haters. Give the devil his due, they are evil mf'ers and good at their job all they got to do is buy a few Dems up in bad suits and jean jackets and blame the victim and the proles eat it up like Easter candy.

yea it's nice to see Manchin and Sinema get hassled everywhere they go but the reality is that all 50 GOP Senators are actually even worse, it's just that we **expect** them to be corrupt assholes who would set the entire planet on fire for a few bucks. idk it's kind of fucked up, senators like Flake and Murkowski and Collins got raked over the coals for certain votes even though every other GOP Senator deserves just as much shit and they didn't get it because it was those 3 hemming and hawing the whole time.

dow up big, way better then expected unemployment numbers and the likes of CNN are talking about the price of milk! Why aren't Dems hammering this point that the things they have put in place like the American rescue act are working, that the job market is recovering! fuck why not have Biden brag about the stupid stock market like Trump did every time it was up. Dems suck at this shit

lol who fucking cares about the dow and unemployment? the job market ... is recovering .. i don't even know what to say to that lol. a big pile of shit is growing, what wonderful news. the democrats should definitely be on that one.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/580156-nikki-haley-calls-for-a-cognitive-test-for-older-politicians

Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley suggested in an interview on Thursday that leaders in the government who are of an advanced age should undergo a "cognitive test."

The Christian Broadcasting Network's David Brody questioned Haley about her thoughts on the mental health of 78-year-old President Biden, the oldest man to hold the office, asking if she had any concerns.

"Well what I'll tell you is, rather than making this about a person, we seriously need to have a conversation that if you're gonna have anyone above a certain age in a position of power — whether it's the House, whether it's the Senate, whether it's vice president, whether it's president — you should have some sort of cognitive test," Haley said, comparing it to how lawmakers disclose their tax returns.

"And right now, let's face it, we've got a lot of people in leadership positions that are old. And that's not being disrespectful. That's a fact," Haley, 49, added. "And when it comes to that, this shouldn't be partisan. We should seriously be looking at the ages of the people that are running our country and understand if that's what we want."

Haley said, comparing it to how lawmakers disclose their tax returns.

deepest sigh

Once again, ⁦@RepSpanberger⁩ sings the canary-in-the-coal-mine tune:

‘Nobody elected Biden to be FDR, they elected him to be normal and stop the chaos.’ https://t.co/i49n1Se74T

— Trip Gabriel (@tripgabriel) November 3, 2021

Given the lack of movement on the agenda, shouldn’t Biden be polling in the 60s then?

Of course the GOP is redistricting their way to a House majority, that's always been obvious and there really isn't anything that can stop them. My own state, which voted a bit over 40 percent for Biden, is probably going to be reduced to Democrats holding just 1 out of 9 congressional seats. GOP would most likely win the House next year even running with 2020 districts, with the new maps the only reasonable thing to expect is a blowout. The House is lost, any efforts at saving anything should be directed to the Senate.

I think we can assume articles of impeachment against Biden introduced by early '23, probably shot down in the Senate even if the GOP has control, though at this point I don't take anything for granted.

Also, I don't actually disagree with Haley about cognitive tests. I'd be in favor of an upper age limit to run for federal office period.

how quickly do we expect a GOP-controlled Senate to abolish the filibuster?

sorry, that may be a very dumb question. i don't think it's inevitable. it just seems like exactly what they would do (with mcconnell twisting the knife by saying that it's what the democrats wanted to do all along, of course), and then pass the fascism act of 2023

This NYT piece (from the Editorial Board!) really is unbelievably bad. Just meaningless appeals to bipartisanship and "getting things done" as though those aren't, in practice, mutually exclusive.

What a steaming pile.

The Times says Democrats are too far to the left without naming a single specific policy it considers too left.

Then it demands Democrats “work to implement policies to help the American people.”

So, you know, lefty things.

https://t.co/qYM6WsYBV8

— Kaili Joy Gray (@KailiJoy) November 5, 2021

lol who fucking cares about the dow and unemployment?

the fucking idiots that vote do! have we not leaned that a lot of people see this shit and think it means something.

xposts

Actually they may not impeach Biden outright until '24, but will spend '23 launching investigations of everything under the sun and then take the most promising of those and put them together in an impeachment package timed to the election.

I don't think a GOP Senate would nuke the filibuster until they have a Republican president. And even then it may be dicey because the Senate is likely to remain more in play than the House, last thing you want is to kill the filibuster and then have the Democrats take back the Senate.

(with mcconnell twisting the knife by saying that it's what the democrats wanted to do all along, of course),

Oh god, I can hear it now: "Now this is something I actually agree with my friends across the aisle about."

Veering into total speculation, if the midterms are as bad as they will probably be, or even leading up to them, I wonder if there won't be growing chatter (stoked by Politico et al) about Democrats thinking Biden should decide not to run for re-election for health reasons. Or even step down and let Harris run as an incumbent.

Harris would not have a chance

Yeah, the Dems won't do that, passing the baton to Harris guarantees the GOP win in '24.

Also, I don't actually disagree with Haley about cognitive tests. I'd be in favor of an upper age limit to run for federal office period.

so many political institutions are dominated by old corpses of overly bearded 1880s men, reclining in cobwebs. the next generation of american political leaders is 60 years old right now. do we expect them to vote against their own interests as soon-to-be Ancient Leaders? after waiting their turn all their lives, waiting to become so old that they no longer recognize anything that their constituents are doing, that they don't even understand how the economy works, or what kinds of jobs people do, harboring bitter resentments against people 50 years younger than them trying to moderate their language and accusing them of inherent racism? after doing all of that, they're not going to accept their rightful place at the top of the political system that rewards those who have the most faith in the ideas of the 1930s and 1980s?

no way. the only time a politician votes against their own interests is when they screw their own constituents. they don't do it to themselves. there's a whole class of politicians that are about to collect their reward for being a total dick for the past 60 years. they're not going to vote to put a limit on that, just before its their own time.

signed, the most ageist jerk on the internet, who will definitely die before he gets old, probably, please,

I don’t disagree and wish she weren’t the fallback. But man I really don’t know if another Biden run is going to be sustainable. It was held together with duct tape last time, and it won’t just be easy to paint him as doddering and incapacitated, it will be hard to paint him as anything but. At least if he were out of the picture it would open up the possibility for a Democratic primary. Not that there are great obvious options on the bench either.

(That was xpost to Harris posts)

Oh to be clear, I don't think Biden is going to be sustainable either. I'm hoping (most likely in vain, I know) they are working behind the scenes to have someone actually electable as a Plan B.

the Senate is likely to remain more in play than the House, last thing you want is to kill the filibuster and then have the Democrats take back the Senate

Show your work. It's always been my understanding that the Senate is not so slowly slipping out of Democrats' grasp and that once it's gone it'll be gone basically forever because the solid R states are wastelands with fewer people in 'em than the town I live in.

Thank god the important work is still getting done.

NEW: Biden is selling Saudi Arabia $650 million in missiles, calls the move "fully consistent" with ending the war in Yemen. pic.twitter.com/UPBwEpMYtz

— Akbar Shahid Ahmed (@AkbarSAhmed) November 4, 2021

i was worried

Show your work. It's always been my understanding that the Senate is not so slowly slipping out of Democrats' grasp and that once it's gone it'll be gone basically forever because the solid R states are wastelands with fewer people in 'em than the town I live in.

That's certainly the argument here: https://www.vox.com/2021/10/18/22724808/democrats-senate-disadvantage-shor-klein

I just think that once redistricting is done, the likelihood of winning a House majority again this decade shrinks considerably. Whereas the Senate is more susceptible to, say, a terrible candidate winning a Republican primary in a relatively close state. You can't gerrymander the Senate any more than it already effectively is gerrymandered, so the Republicans have to actually win statewide elections.

But yeah, the reality is that none of the scenarios look promising for Democrats.

As with climate change, I'm moving into a how-to-cope-with-impending-disaster mindset. If we assume complete GOP control of the federal and a majority of state governments through (at a minimum) the back half of the 2020s, where are the vulnerabilities going to be, what are going to be the effective pressure points. We know for sure that they will fuck up all sorts of things (because they're crooks who are not good at governing), so how can those fuck-ups be leveraged when they inevitably happen? I think that's how progressive interest groups and alliances should be thinking. Prepare for long-term guerrilla politics, basically.

the cultural politics of the republican party are basically anathema to the urban centers of the US, which is where financial and cultural power are concentrated. if they really do "rig" the rules to establish a permanent majority, i can't imagine that would go over quietly.

Businesses have awakened to the profit-making opportunities of #woke so long as they also benefit from GOP-friendly state legislatures. Look at my state.

these fuckers really love commenting on stacks of paper

2,145 pages. Every Democrat should answer a simple question before they vote for this Socialist Spending Scam:

Have you even read the bill? pic.twitter.com/Oaks4lrmX4

— Kevin McCarthy (@GOPLeader) November 5, 2021

there is always money for corporate tax cuts though

Businesses have awakened to the profit-making opportunities of #woke so long as they also benefit from GOP-friendly state legislatures. Look at my state.

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, November 5, 2021 1:15 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i mean, the ultra-rich seem willing to let the country rot. they need to wise up, though. their wealth means nothing if the united states collapses, which is what will happen if inequality continues rising at this rate...

not to mention climate change.

it's a complete fantasy that "the good life" can be maintained in lieu of a functioning society.

did u guys read that terrible editorial in the nytimes today

I'm approaching the age when I need to protect my vision.

the ultra-rich can afford to move and set up their new castle wherever they want, even if it's on a sea of rotting carcasses

goooood mooooourning!

that's what they think.

treeship otm

yea I agree with treeship too, if things really start getting bad it doesn't seem like there will be a shortage of people willing to make every aspect of their lives uncomfortable

also money would lose its value.

the cultural politics of the republican party are basically anathema to the urban centers of the US, which is where financial and cultural power are concentrated.

I think about this a lot, especially being in one of the many blue-dot red states. GOP legislatures like to wage war on liberal-bastion cities, but there is (or should be) a legitimate goose-golden egg concern there. My guess is you can only go so far in establishing a completely hostile atmosphere toward any kind of progressive thought before it hurts your economy. I don't know where that line is, though.

i don't think this is a a controp, but i think rich people will be fine. they will flee to the most livable areas in a world that is burning, they will gather together and have their own private militia/guard, and they will hide behind walls and multiple layers of security access. it will be worse than before for them, but not nearly as bad as it will be for everyone else.

or hell, maybe they'll just be on the space station

What’s the scenario where money has no value though? Extinction-level apocalypse?

Short of that, a slide into a completely undemocratic authoritarian state leaves the wealthy protected in every way.

"is that the eastern seaboard on fire down there, dear?"
"why, it certainly is! do you think it's the summer fires or the 6th civil war?"
"oh, who can tell the difference any more, i just hate how the smoke clouds our view!"
"robot! i'm going to go have sex in the matrix now!"
"coooooompliance!"

undemocratic, authoritarian states are far less stable than regimes that the public view as "legitimate." in addition, economies where workers have few opportunities for advancement or stability are less productive. it doesn't pay to be the king of the ashes, you know.

they'll be "better off" than the rest of us, true. but i still think our "ruling class" is terribly misguided in their decision to act as such poor stewards of our economy, government, and planet.

it's hard to overstate how completely the function of the parties is to create the illusion of meaningful choice. if a person doesn't see that i don't know what to tell them.

it doesn't pay to be the king of the ashes, you know.

https://i.imgur.com/Ul7Uk5B.jpg

undemocratic, authoritarian states are far less stable than regimes that the public view as "legitimate."

… citation needed. Liberal democratic states are the historical anomaly here. (Including in the US, which has functionally had sort-of liberal democracy for all of 57 years.)

The Mumbai zillionaire whose high-rise house butts up against slums probably doesn’t feel real sad about his position in the world.

And you can always just look at the European aristocracy and trace wealth and power that has weathered centuries of civil wars and revolutions.

https://qz.com/694340/the-richest-families-in-florence-in-1427-are-still-the-richest-families-in-florence/

Being King of the Ashes is, in fact, pretty tight.

Which is all to say that the rich have no reason to be invested in what any of us would describe as a functioning society or state. They’ll be fine anyway.

yeah then at least then you don't have the pseudo-rich hanging around your spots making it uncool

And the poors can’t yell at you on your yacht without being shot by your Pinkerton detail.

The New Deal was a historical anomaly. We're living on the fumes. Can't wait to see how much chipping the Fourteenth Amendment can take!

I'd say liberal democratic states are more stable in the ways rich people care most about, which is the assurance that the government will not seize all your assets and throw you in prison. (See any number of uncooperative Russian oligarchs, e.g.) Being rich is a much better hedge against poverty and imprisonment in the United States than it is in Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, etc etc.

And for all the private militia talk, I just don't know how many billionaires really want to maintain an entire feudal state on their own. They want to be be able to go to the Met gala, not just sit on a private island. (Any of them who want the private-island option can have that too, obv.)

But also no, I'm not counting on millionaires and billionaires to save us. I just think there are pragmatic reasons for them not to be too enthusiastic about a MAGA state. Look at how Trump jerked around companies and CEOs who he didn't think paid him sufficient respect. To map's point, the 1 percent want a government they can reliably buy, and the two-party system has been pretty amenable to that.

And for all the private militia talk, I just don't know how many billionaires really want to maintain an entire feudal state on their own. They want to be be able to go to the Met gala, not just sit on a private island. (Any of them who want the private-island option can have that too, obv.)

well said. this is basically my point.

maybe the private island is the USA

I think the private militia stuff is about the super rich worrying about climate-change related societal breakdown. I heard something about billionaires worrying about how to keep their bodyguards loyal in the case of a revolution

The Roman Empire provides a good example of what happens when you don't pay the guards enough

and when you don't provide national health insurance #lead

They don’t have to maintain a private militia, that’s why we have cops and the US military.

They just get the option to kill the poors for sport because even the fantasy of the rule of law melts away.

The only way they have to become private island warlords is the complete collapse of society, which… we have like 3500 nukes. That collapse doesn’t come without those getting launched and making all questions moot.

my uncle is the only super rich person i know. he's a big fucking asshole. he built out most of his basement (which is, by itself, larger than my people's homes) so it's a survivor compound, complete with a fully stocked wine bar (whine bar). maybe all the other rich people are not as fucking crazy and selfish as he is, but he seems to have a lot of friends and colleagues that are also rich, and also gigantic assholes, so i imagine either he's rubbing off on them or the other way around. if nothing else, there will be at least a sizable majority of super-rich that really will retreat to their floating fortresses. but maybe all the rest will be like warren buffett or bill gates, your classic good guy rich guy

oof, i just shared a juicy anecdote about a super-rich person and then deleted it. such is life! such are non-disclosure agreements!

they are naive as fuck though. i don't think they have what it takes to maintain their position in a world where all the old systems of value fall apart. however, i could be wrong.

yeah, i'm just talking out of my ass, anyway. i was trained from birth to believe the world is about to end, it's hard to de-condition

We don't need historical examples, really, modern right-wing authoritarian states have not exactly faced challenges from their industrialists and aristocracy from Germany to Franco's Spain and onward.

China is the undemocratic authoritarian state with the most difficulties keeping the wealthy complacent and idle - and that's because they remain willing to expropriate your shit.

they are naive as fuck though

Also my experience with at least some rich people. A lot of them don't even really understand politics. They know their corner of the universe, where they are master, but not necessarily much beyond.

fortunately Donald Trump is not a rich person.

I think he's better understood as a celebrity than a rich person per se, for whatever that distinction means.

life is a movie

After agitating for the chance for weeks, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) finally visited alleged Jan. 6 rioters in jail Thursday night and compared them to prisoners of war, part of a months-long campaign to valorize the attack on Congress.

Though the vast majority of people facing charges for their actions on Jan. 6 are not in custody, a few dozen are behind bars. The Washington Post reported this week that 40 Jan. 6 defendants were being held in D.C.’s Correctional Treatment Facility.

Greene has taken the lead on campaigning for these detainees, and following her visit to what she dubbed the “Patriot wing” of the jail Thursday, she said “I was greeted by men with overwhelming cheers who rushed out to meet me with tears streaming down their faces.”

What followed built on the months-long effort to rewrite the history of the Capitol attack, turning it from a violent attempt to steal a second term for Donald Trump — in defiance of the results of the 2020 election — into a story of political persecution against simple patriots.

“It was like walking into a prisoner of war camp and seeing men who eyes can’t believe someone had made it in to see them,” Greene said.

I remember when right wingers cared about politicians appearing to be sympathetic to terrorists

This shit is only going to get worse.

so i guess MGT is for prison reform now?

or whatever her name is

“It was like walking into a prisoner of war camp and seeing men who eyes can’t believe someone had made it in to see them,” Greene said.

Summer of My German Soldier

Sure, for white "patriots", absolutely.

i'm guessing there will never be a "day" to remember all the people who died of covid, especially since the GOP went out of their way to make sure that so many more of them died than necessary. but i'd put the odds at 10:1 on a future US holiday dedicated to the 1/6 patriots

our very own Guy Fawkes day

“I was greeted by men with overwhelming cheers who rushed out to meet me with tears streaming down their faces.”

And, strange to say, they all called me "Sir."

just insanely reckless shit that is probably not going to end well for the GOP either. these people wanted to murder Mike Pence!!

i wonder what would have happened had he died that day

nothing good

I'm increasingly cynical that anything more significant than "fuck all" comes out of this.

i wonder what would have happened had he died that day

crackdown on antifa

i wonder what would have happened had he died that day

they would claim it as the biggest false flag ever and double down on the lunacy

if you would like to think about another bad thing, due to a surprise visit by the u.s. marshals all of these detainees were moved to a federal prison in pennsylvania because the d.c. jail's conditions are not so good if you don't enjoy living with feces all over. somehow no one noticed this before and the superior court inmates have to stay there still.

oh i'm sorry she visited the "central treatment facility," not the "central detention facility"

only one jail had people moved

well of course that happened

It seems impossible that Mike Pence could have died at the hands of the rioters, but the election results could have also been formally accepted by Congress at the same time. Because the US constitution specifies the exact day this needs to happen, when it didn't happen it would open a huge loophole for Trumpists to claim that Biden's election had not been legitimated.

Trump could then have declared a state of emergency and attempted to stay in place, with the support of more than 90% of his party. He would have continued to press his claim that the election was rigged. The amount of street violence this would inspire would have been used as further pretext to halt the transition of power. Basically a slow motion coup d'etat with an escalating police crackdown on the opposition.

There you have it. Next question.

here is a article. the inspection only occurred due to jan 6 defendants complaining (the complaints were legitimate but you know) https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/unacceptable-conditions-at-dc-jail-lead-to-plan-to-transfer-about-400-inmates-officials-say/ar-AAQfcM5

They’ve been told for decades that prisons are too soft and nice, clearly their conditions were the result of being imprisoned by Stalinist Joe Biden rather than just how jails are.

@RepSpanberger
⁩ sings the canary-in-the-coal-mine tune:

‘Nobody elected Biden to be FDR, they elected him to be normal and stop the chaos.’

nobody tell spanberger about the platform affirmed by the DNC in summer 2020!

two things about FDR were he was not normal and he liked chaos

FDR was the first Joker

Bruce Wayne was behind the Business Plot.

Henry Wallace was Harley Quinn

FDR smoked and liked martinis iirc

they trying to get the bills through tonight, for reals this time?

They share a love of convertibles and trains.

RIP democrats

all the progressives voted no so I'm guessing the bill sucks

that certainly may be true, but I think it's mainly because they insisted on doing reconciliation first and now it's been kicked down the road

I hate that I’m saying this, but …

At least something got done

for reals
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/05/1050012853/the-house-has-passed-the-1-trillion-infrastructure-plan-sending-it-to-bidens-des?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews

Embarrassing to ‘hold the line’ until McAuliffe ate shit and then capitulate.

https://www.inthepublicinterest.org/guess-who-slipped-a-pro-corporate-america-provision-in-the-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill/

I guess privatization doesn’t really matter that much when the seas are going to boil.

unfortunately it seems like the votes were there even without the progressives

that certainly may be true, but I think it's mainly because they insisted on doing reconciliation first and now it's been kicked down the road

― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Friday, November 5, 2021 10:37 PM (fifteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Right, passing the infrastructure bill meant giving away leverage on reconciliation. The "moderates" who have been threatening to torpedo Build Back Better put out a statement committing to vote for it pending a CBO score, which I guess is what convinced Jayapal to go ahead with tonight's vote, but...that's not a guarantee that they actually will.

Yeah, whatever the CBO score is, it will be enough for people who don’t want to do it to call it “irresponsible” and cry about inflation and debt.

https://www.inthepublicinterest.org/guess-who-slipped-a-pro-corporate-america-provision-in-the-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill/

xp just want to answer the link's question by clicking on the link: portman and manchin. the answer is in the 8th paragraph out of 11.

Senators Rob Portman (R-OH) and Joe Manchin (D-WV) slipped the requirement for value for money analyses on federally supported transportation loans into the bill in August. Maybe the fact that Manchin has received more campaign contributions from financial firms than any other industry—including from CBRE, a real estate firm actively pushing P3s—has something to do with it.

that's the only important paragraph in the entire piece. just want to shit on the media, real quick

VOTE KLEPTOCRATIC - "Vote with your wallet, we own enough of them to get what we really want and stop what we don't."

What I have concluded about this whole thing is that despite being a middle-aged person with an advanced degree who has lived in the United States my whole life I basically don't understand how Congress works at all. I'm lost. The House passed the bill? So does that mean... it's going to become law? Or is there still another round of Sinema-Manchin wrangling and maybe the whole thing goes down the tubes? And if something passes, is it this, or is it some highly mutated version of this? I feel like I've read 600 articles about provisions that are now not in the bill and I have no clue what's actually in it in the end. (I recognize that to some extent this is my own fault.)

The infrastructure bill becomes law when Biden signs it. To get it to his desk, he and Jayapal and the progressives extracted a written promise from the dickhead conservatives that the latter would offer their support to the second bill should the CBO give them an offer they can't refuse.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/06/us/politics/infrastructure-black-caucus-vote.html

The infrastructure bill becomes law when Biden signs it.

But has the Senate already signed off on this version? So, like, this is the actual bill?

"signs off" isn't the same as a president signing a bill

Right, but I'm saying -- the House and the Senate both have to pass it -- right?

As I understand it, they need reconciliation for the social spending bill, not the infrastructure bill that passed the Senate in August and last night in the House. The infrastructure bill heads for the Senate's desk if no reconciliation's needed.

er, sorry, "conference committee" for the second "reconciliation"

OK so the infrastructure bill that just passed the House is identical to one that passed the Senate so long ago I forgot about it? That makes sense.

This is all tangled, I admit

But has the Senate already signed off on this version? So, like, this is the actual bill?

Yes, the Senate passed the bipartisan infrastructure bill in… August? Maybe early September.

August, yeah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgVKvqTItto

One of the worst shitheads who stonewalled the reconciliation bill as 'too expensive' is my rep, Kurt Schrader. I just wrote him yesterday to tell him to eat shit and die, but not in those exact words.

"Consume Excrement And Expire"

As with previous bills of the sort, you know many of these deficit hawks will be at the shovel ceremonies and put their lying mugs in front of the camera's when the projects start like they voted for them to happen.

I don’t know if there’s a shovel ceremony for AT&T execs receiving their yearly bonus.

Government propaganda…for your 5 year old! https://t.co/lKUlomnpq1

— Ted Cruz (@tedcruz) November 6, 2021

all of my blood has been curdled

Funny how failure to pass a bill can be front page news for weeks if not months, but when it finally passed I didn't see a single headline because I didn't check the news over the weekend. I guess government dysfunction is more newsworthy than functioning government.

I took a screenshot of Saturday's POLITICO homepage:

https://i.imgur.com/Zss0P6X.jpg

Son of abyss.

Don't go messin'

it stares back at you, iirc

Actually doing anything elicits a yawn. The press loves Dems in disarray discourse cause it feeds into our predjudices.

Disarray, dat array, everything's in array.

I guess government dysfunction is more newsworthy than functioning government.

Passing the BIF because some people panicked because McAuliffe lost isn’t really an example of functioning government, is it? Doing a 180 on political strategy should be the story there.

who did the 180? who was directing the strategy?

there were 6 house democrats, on the day of the vote, saying they'd refuse to vote for it unless it got a CBO score (which would be impossible at that point). did they do the 180?

did manchin and sinema do a 180?

can i do a 180, on tony hawk pro skateboarder? yes i can.

my point is that, for the millionth time, it's a 50/50 senate and house with only 3 votes to spare, and congress is full of giant fucking rich assholes

jesus christ wouldn't be able to get manchin and sinema to have any sense of personal responsibility or guilt

my point is that, for the millionth time, it's a 50/50 senate and house with only 3 votes to spare, and congress is full of giant fucking rich assholes

How is that a counterpoint what I said? The strategy changed after five months of “holding the line” and resulted in passing a bad bill. That’s not functional government and the strategic shift is a better and more telling story.

Let me be really clear on this: We will not take up a bill in the House until the Senate passes the bipartisan bill and a reconciliation bill. If there is no bipartisan bill, then we'll just go when the Senate passes a reconciliation bill," the California Democrat said Thursday during her weekly news conference.

"There ain't gonna be no bipartisan bill, unless we have a reconciliation bill," she said. "As I said, there won't be an infrastructure bill, unless we have a reconciliation bill. Plain and simple. In fact, I use the word ain't. There ain't going to be an infrastructure bill, unless we have the reconciliation bill passed by the United States Senate," she reiterated.

Last quote in case you were still curious about whose strategy was reversed there.

That you have to describe it as the only possible outcome thanks to two Democratic Senators would belie the functional bit, really. Functional government wouldn’t let Joe Manchin define climate policy.

That’s not functional government

Correct. It isn't like the legislative branch of our government has been truly functional for any purpose other than emptying the treasury into the pockets of billionaires since this century began. It was an attempt to exert maximum leverage, but it failed because the assholes who've aligned themselves with all the Republican assholes decided the implicit threat from the House progressive caucus did not threaten them. This "bad bill" was the nearest to functionality the progressive caucus could obtain under that circumstance, because they couldn't shake the votes loose for a better bill. They tried.

I think I'll start sending Kurt Schrader daily reminders that he's lost my vote forever.

in conclusion, the US government is very not good. i learned something today.

lock thread

trying to imagine pelosi saying ain't gonna be no

it's difficult because "pelosi" means "a platoon of yes"

Seen some twitter people noted that GA flipped 41 seats in 21 counties across Georgia last week, with next to no national reporting or notice. If it bleeds, it leads. Meanwhile, on milk:

When I asked Krista Stotler from this CNN story if her family had received extended child tax credits over the last few months, she told me: "We only have three kids under the age of 18 and don't really have a comment on that. … We're just trying to raise our kiddos." https://t.co/lW0THTDoeA

— Daniel Lippman (@dlippman) November 8, 2021

So these assholes buy 12 gallons of milk for a household with only three kids under the age of 18?

these legal adults are all pissin' white!

nearly everybody in that house is fully grown and constipated. the stotlers wonder why their plumbing bills are so high under President Biden as they feed their 28 year old son another glass of milk on the fury road.

Their milk bill might be high but imagine what they spend on potpourri to hide the pervasive odor of wet farts.

Yeah, with only three of those kids under 18, I retract my half-hearted defense. That is a bizarre amount of milk for a house with grown ass adults.

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/12/bathemilk.jpg

that milk story's been done to death here already

we milked that cow dry

that milk story's been done to death here already

just a few new details in a meaningless inconsequential story indistinguishable from clickbait

Counterpoint: a funny story is now twice as funny.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's gone from 2% to WHole

we're just skimming the surface

get the milk talk off Carton-Eyed Joe's thread

just a few new details in a meaningless inconsequential story indistinguishable from clickbait

― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, November 8, 2021 6:07 PM (sixteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

december thread title!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in58wtVI9sI

Well this seems bad (respondents are all Youngkin voters)

We ask: Which party has better policy proposals?
54%: Democrats
14% Republicans
32% About the same

— Danny Barefoot (@dannybarefoot) November 8, 2021

Life in these United States:

Okay and last question: If Democrats had passed the Bipartisan Infrastructure Package before the election would you have considered changing your vote?

91%: No
9% Yes

One woman laughs and says "what does that have to do with anything?"

— Danny Barefoot (@dannybarefoot) November 8, 2021

Write a deadline poem about THAT, Calvin Trillin

lol

is andy borowitz still pulling in the most views for the new yorker?

We ask an open ended why did you vote for Glenn Younkin? Some of the responses.

"All McAuliffe had to say was he was like Trump. Listen to Youngkin talk, that's just silly."

"Democrats have to get gas prices under control I wanted to send a message."

— Danny Barefoot (@dannybarefoot) November 8, 2021

Will consultants still try to run against Trump in 2022?

Yes.

Congratulations, Mr. Youngkin! You’re Governor but also Gasoline Czar

"Biden 2024 - an electric car in every driveway, never pay for gas again!"

Absolutely true that McAuliffe had no message.

Quite agree. "Don't vote for the Trumpy guy" works for me. In fact it is all I needed. "NOT THEM" works fine for me, in fact it has been my entire politics for decades, more or less.

But for loads of voters "Don't vote for the Trumpy guy" was insufficient, and Terry never quite put forward a positive case for his own election.

One thing to consider though: the governor of Virginia typically doesn't do shit, or control mich of anything. It was intentionally written as a weak office where term limits effectively limited the degree to which any particular governor could move the political football in any direction.

When people turn their attention to the Virginia governor's race, it is WAY MORE about what it means in terms of the horse race - who's up, who's down, who's dispirited and who's emboldened - than actual stiff happening in the world.

Which is why my main disappointment with the race is that it emboldens the wrong people. My life will continue more or less as it has. Might need to keep getting weed from DC, though. Bummer.

Some of the responses.

Drive down the street can't find the keys to my own fucking home
I take a walk so I can curse my ass for being dumb
I make a right after the arches stinking grease and bone
Stop at the supermarket people stare like I'm a dog
I voted Youngkin

Best Springsteen song in ages

thought that focus group said a lot, at least for suburban women. the democrats win on policy but lose badly on culture issues, and the culture war beats policy

Democrats made school a bummer for our dear little Kameron and Kaitlyn.

:)

That focus group confirmed something I had sort of assumed, which is that school COVID restrictions were more of a factor than "CRT." But all ended up getting wrapped up together.

lol Neanderthal

yes lmao i just got it

That focus group confirmed something I had sort of assumed, which is that school COVID restrictions were more of a factor than "CRT." But all ended up getting wrapped up together.

I’m sure California had even more of a lockdown than Virginia ever had but Newsom survived recall easily.

and Newsome ran on WHOA NELLY TRUMP'S GONNA GETCHA too, no?

Yeah, the old lesson that who the candidates are actually matters is an important part too. Which tbh does not give me warm feelings about the road ahead, but maybe there are some great candidates out there I don't know about.

It is a good left-progressive talking point tho, that the real lesson of Virginia is no more warmed-over Clintonistas.

_ I’m sure California had even more of a lockdown than Virginia ever had but Newsom survived recall easily._

and Newsome ran on WHOA NELLY TRUMP'S GONNA GETCHA too, no?

McAuliffe got more votes than Northam so idk if the answer is necessarily "his campaign sucked"

Also there is going to be a CA election next year, anyway, whereas in VA the Gov literally is not allowed to serve consecutive terms, iirc, so the voters *had* to make a choice, vs. CA pointlessly and impatiently forcing people to make a choice early at the behest of, yeah, lotsa loons.

"the democrats win on policy but lose badly on culture issues, and the culture war beats policy"

and this is depressing, because I'm never going to agree with these choads on culture war shit, but more and more the country is drifting that way. Ban CRT, keep schools open during pandemics, teachers' unions are evil.... seems to me that much of the country is drifting this way.

I question "much of the country."

Enough of the country, then.

ok, enough of a percentage of the voting populace seems to be moving that way. I think school closures broke people's brains.

McAuliffe got more votes than Northam so idk if the answer is necessarily "his campaign sucked"

This is an important point too often overlooked by hack-ass political journalists (and others). Political engagement across the board is spiking. People are paying attention, and participating, at much higher rates than in the past. So if they're paying attention to poorly sourced, inaccurate/conspiratorial information you're fucked unless you counteract that shit, because there's gonna be hordes of ill-informed and riled-up motherfuckers voting. It seems like Democratic candidates have not yet a) noticed that there are hordes of potential voters available now or b) figured out how to corral them.

We should just make it harder to vote.

xposts

Yeah, good points. But I don't think the lesson is that McAuliffe, e.g., did great because he got more votes than Northam. The fact that someone running an apparently not very good campaign still got more votes tells you there are more votes to get — and it will be necessary to get them.

"Teachers' unions are evil" About 3,220,000 results (0.60 seconds)

This has been going on for quite a while, Betsy Devos was only the most recent/visible manifestation.

"teachers unions are evil"
About 4,970 results (0.46 seconds)

you have to put it in quotation marks in google. otherwise it will come up with results where "evil" and "teachers" were in two different places on the website, rather than as the exact phrase

for example,

you should never do a double decker to a friend's toilet
About 52,700,000 results (0.92 seconds)

No results found for "you should never do a double decker to a friend's toilet".

lol thx for pro tip!

i've been googlin in quotes for many years...time was, that was pretty much all there was to do on the internet

and also, if we wait a week, will there now be ONE result for "you should never do a double decker to a friend's toilet"??

Yeah, it seems pretty apparent that the McAuliffe loss has a lot more to do with him being a bit of grease left on the griddle of the Clinton era, and people are done with that shit. Of course the pundits and moderates are all blaming CRT because actually thinking about white supremacy would require rethinking capitalism, and that just won't sit well with donors.

Also I get fundraising emails from various Dem wings and all the McAuliffe ones were headed I’M SORRY or WE ARE DESPERATE or similar, not the way a winner communicates.

this will go well

"Illinois became the first state to require one unit of media literacy for all high school students this summer, and now it's debuting a rough draft of the curriculum." https://t.co/o3veHMeiQ2

I doubt that American democracy is strong enough to do this without a CRT-type fiasco.

— Jay Rosen (@jayrosen_nyu) November 9, 2021

something i've long advocated for (basic media literacy education). but in the year 2021, this will be immediately interpreted as "government trying to brainwash my children to watch msnbc and indoctrinate them" by at least 40% of the population

It should also be treated skeptically from a left or even left-liberal perspective, given the way public schools work.

"I would use the analogy of financial literacy classes," says attorney Maaria Mozaffar, who helped write the legislation.

So we didn't have financial literacy classes but my economics teacher in high school based his lesson plan on Friedman and Hayek when he wasn't showing us documentaries about wonderful self-made entrepreneurs like Bill Gates.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-political-scene/inside-the-democrats-battle-to-build-back-better

this is a great story and while extremely depressing, makes me happy that jayapal is in the leadership position she's in

"the democrats win on policy but lose badly on culture issues, and the culture war beats policy"

and this is depressing, because I'm never going to agree with these choads on culture war shit, but more and more the country is drifting that way. Ban CRT, keep schools open during pandemics, teachers' unions are evil.... seems to me that much of the country is drifting this way.

― akm, Tuesday, November 9, 2021 10:51 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I question "much of the country."

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, November 9, 2021 10:52 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Enough of the country, then.

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, November 9, 2021 10:53 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

ok, enough of a percentage of the voting populace seems to be moving that way. I think school closures broke people's brains.

― akm, Tuesday, November 9, 2021 10:55 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Couple things going on here.

One is: Almost everybody who doesn't think like a Republican moves to a city in which almost no one thinks like a Republican.

Hence, inside cities, you have basically no Republicans. Outside cities, you have... mostly Republicans. This, THIS is what is exacerbating the structural shit like gerrymandering, and the Electoral College and the filibuster.

Unlike most of y'all I am like an actual parent with school-age kids in Virginia. And I am not even a little bit troubled by the various bits of culture-war bullshit being trumpeted by school board moms. But to "school board moms" these bits of culture-war bullshit are paramount in their decisionmaking.

To counter them requires better messaging than "the things you are concerned about are not actual things." You have to figure out how to counteract that with a better story. We are not, currently, coming up with that better story. Expect more damage to occur until the messaging gets persuasive to THOSE folks.

We're doing fine communicating to one another. We are NOT doing a good job changing minds or persuading the unpersuaded.