Call out ILXors you don't enjoy to their face right here then, come on, let's have it

There's a crackly tension in the air today, maybe we need a lightning rod or at least keep it one place so everybody can enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tmd-ClpJxA

everybody unreflectingly doomposting or repeating dumbass NATO perspectives on the Ukraine thread is a teeny weeny flaccid nob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUrs_9waPBk

People using the Wolves thread to complain about how the "big six" moneyball brand they "support" didn't win their game with enough panache this week - get in the bin!!

FUCK YEAH

People who post too much. Frankly, it's unbearable!

Lurkers - it’s always the quiet ones you have to watch.

https://i.imgur.com/ar23aLR.jpg

Your usernames are useless to me! Get this, I don’t even look at them, I just read the posts! Yeah take that. I don’t look at usernames and decide whether I care to read it, I actually have NO OPINION about who is posting, I judge the information. Bet that stings!

I dunno I have this weird habit of thinking other people exist

thank you for locking the other thread

I dunno I have this weird habit of thinking other people exist

I don't have this problem

Every time there's an ILX beef I look in like "why are my Sims fighting"

Most of you people suck. (The people I don't think suck already know it, because we interact elsewhere.) Neanderthal rules. And if ILXors are willing to talk shit about a guy as good and righteous as him, I can only imagine what's been said about someone like me, so here's a pre-emptive Fuck You All, And Your Mothers Too.

thisilxordoesnotexist.com

the only ilxor i don't like is gabbneb.
and i don't even remember why at this point.

The only person on the politics thread guilty of being the centrist poll-centered squish we use as a strawman.

I like everyone on this board!

Closed online social environments like secret Slacks and what-have-you, I've seen them turn into "the discussion of others" too often. I'm allergic to it! I don't think it's a positive thing.

If you discuss somebody who is not-present in a closed environment for any extended period of time, applying [manipulative] or [needy] or [evil] or whatever modifiers to every aspect of the target's public missives, it makes monsters out normal people

My point was was same as fgti’s also i suspect many posts get unread if the poster is not a “notable ilxor” which if true is a frustrating arbitrary obstacle when one just wants to contribute to a conversation. Who is who and one’s “posting style” or whatever is a strange obsession around here.

I'm not sure about that - one of the small nice touches about ILX is the name being under the post decreases the context a little, you get the words before you know who people are (I mean, some posters have recognisable styles for good or ill)

Well despite that I do think people look at who is posting before they decide to read the post.

Huh... I never thought of that. I post i the subject of the conversation is interesting or I feel like I have something useful to say, rather than who the people are. But then again I'm a relatively infrequent poster these days.

xp ... most ILX posts don't take that long to read?

i like wearing a blindfold when i'm chatting in the pub, that way i can just focus on the words

"...and that's why I spill 2/3 of every pint"

xp

https://i.imgur.com/mxA4HjF.gif

Well despite that I do think people look at who is posting before they decide to read the post.

Hmmmmm, I don't.

I don't understand the focus on who posted too much/long/often. It's not as though you have to chisel the text of every post you read into a granite slab, just scroll on.
And if you don't like the content of someone else's post, a nasty response to it is only going to bring it further attention.

Ricky, you silly fuck. I hate you baby let's be married.

I'm always reminded that the options for responding to an unwanted/offensive/inappropriate/etc post are alternatives to habitual physical reactions that don't map onto online-ness. If there's someone shouting in your group and talking over everyone, you have your standard responses, walking away or turning away from them or shushing them or whatever, and that's a natural social corrective if the person is paying attention or cares. This is a basic thing about relational networks and group norms and having a group culture.

I never quite know what to do on here, in that situation, because there's no way to telegraph anything without posting explicitly. So if you don't want to write a whole thing with an argument and 7 supporting paragraphs and a conclusion and a full bibliography, the result is to just scroll on, silently, and then the poor behavior has no feedback process.

This sounds insane but I actually don't know what happened, will someone webmail me?

I ain't got beef with nobody on the board, but for this being afaict one of the least toxic places on the internet, there's been an unfortunate uptick of late in folks making shit personal. It's always disappointing when smart people who are clearly capable of reasoned disagreement opt for needless invective.

Or if we're friends elsewhere on the internet, DM.

Ftr, while there are a few people on here whom I cannot stand, most of you I rather like even when we disagree. I do think that ILX has made me into a better and more reflective person, even if that doesn't always show.

The genius of the ILX text only interface is that I can read it without giving a fuck who any of you are.

Lots of people otm itt. fgti, ian, in orbit and Old Lunch, to name four.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucTg6rZJCu4

I have a secret webTV chat about Ilx. I am the only member.

i have an ipod in my mind

Lol, Boring, Maryland.

Ftr, while there are a few people on here whom I cannot stand, most of you I rather like even when we disagree. I do think that ILX has made me into a better and more reflective person, even if that doesn't always show.

― we need outrage! we need dicks!! (the table is the table), Sunday, 13 March 2022 15:24 (sixteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Lol hard agree

Ha, I also got yr webmail plax, yes I think I figured it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZOvEqfvNRY

I've been here 20 years without getting involved with any of the major board beefs other than the one that ended with Branwell's banning. I've done some obnoxious things, but you still seem to like me.

I've noticed that when people are called out for being dicks on politics threads, there's often a tendency to assign a political identity to that dickish behavior, which I think undermines the calling-out. If I were acting like a dick (easily imagined tbf), and someone's response was to call me a tankie or a NATO apologist or a middle-class cunt or a mere American who posts too much, it would be much easier for me to brush off their criticisms than if they just told me off for being condescending or whatever.

I can personally deal with a community where people are cringey, wishy-washy, naive, awkward, pedantic (up to a point), or ignorant. I can't deal with a community where people are outright nasty to each other. Though I understand that everyone has different definitions / thresholds for these things.

Nowadays if someone is rude or mean to another poster, or if they're making repeated condescending remarks, or hopping in to exacerbate a beef in which they needn't involve themselves — and I know I've been plenty guilty of all these things in the past — I just flag the post regardless of whether I "agree" or generally like the poster.

That's the kind of equanimity I aspire to. (I'm being serious, btw)

I can personally deal with a community where people are cringey, wishy-washy, naive, awkward, pedantic (up to a point), or ignorant. I can't deal with a community where people are outright nasty to each other. Though I understand that everyone has different definitions / thresholds for these things.

Yes! I like this

Crüt otm.

Response to JiC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiUiKjH2IWE

crut u otm

xp to crüt: I think this is a good post, and I agree with some of it. However, people have different standards of what they think constitutes as bad posting in this sense: to me someone callous about racism or sexism or something that matters is much worse than someone telling me to fuck off. The latter is just words, the former is tolerance of stuff that makes ilx a less pleasant place to be. If that doesn’t bother other people, fine, but there is and always has been on some parts of the site a tendency to allow people to say what they like, as long as they say it politely or couched in enough deniability.

In orbit also very much otm.

people who post things I like are good, people who post things I dislike can suck eggs

I know I'm a little new at posting here, and maybe annoying people with long posts or sounding like a NATO shill or whatever...but I always appreciate people getting into arguments and hashing things out even if it's not always super polite. The US Politics thread used to be rife with Morbz coming in and constantly reminding everyone about how bad the Clintons were, and Milo seems to have taken on that mantle in more recent years/months, but that's for the best! The Trump years would not have been more bearable if you all sat around agreeably pining for neoliberal Democrats to come and save you.

While at times, personal attacks can get out of control or escalate quickly, and I only follow a few threads, I still find ILX worthwhile overall. It's much better than a mutual admiration society devoid of all conflict.

fuck u

j/k welcome! I enjoy your posts.

Made me lol, thanks Alfred.

good morning!

xps I agree, gyac - I am not saying that people should be complacent and certainly not saying that "polite" racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia etc. shouldn't get any pushback.

I am just speaking for myself really. ILX has been my internet home for over half my life, since I was 14, so that colors my view of this community and how we engage with each other.

It’s been my internet home too, ok, not for that long but 11 years. I don’t really want to give up on it either, honestly.

I have sent you a webmail.

i don't know what to really contribute (seriously) to this thread, but i'll say that i've been reading & posting for 20 years, which seems INSANE, but I can tell you that as a young person I definitely made awful, terrible posts on all sorts of topics I really knew nothing about. But I'm glad I wasn't banned, and being on ILX has been a great experience and is, in general, full of really great people. I don't post nearly as much as I did when I was in my teens or twenties, but i still check in pretty regular to keep on track of the politics threads or when there's a topic about a subject I'm interested in. or.. of course.. when the Russia invades Ukraine.

I spent several years of my early twenties regularly hanging out with ILX folks irl and i'm sure I wouldn't be the same person now if I hadn't. I miss Bill (Dr. Morbius) all the time.

crut u otm otm.

Did I love music come out of I hate music. I know I was reading that at University in the early 00ies. found a comment from me from 10 years ago but think I had been on for a while. Think I found it through googling Emannuelle Parrenin whose Moulin Rouge I'd heard of or heard .

I Hate Music was def some ILX in-joke but I don't think it predates ILM.

As I understand it, ILM was basically the FreakyTrigger message board, and I Hate Music was a blog series on FreakyTrigger.

I Hate Music was def some ILX in-joke but I don't think it predates ILM.

Quickie history: ILM was the original ILX board, running on the Greenspun LUSENET server. ILE came next. When Greenspun announced he was shutting down LUSENET, ILX migrated to other servers, but stuck with the Greenspun software, with its text-based look and feel. The 1990's era software has been greatly modified and strengthened by our heroic sysadmins, ILX added many new boards (including some other refugee boards from LUSENET), changed server hosts several times, but the essential look and feel has been retained through all the evolutions.

I apologize for my behavior last night. I retain a negative opinion of guacamole but I realize I went overboard. I’d like to continue posting as I value this community

guess we're continuing this here

Why would it have happened eventually? Like if the argument is “someone else would have pointed ppl towards stuff they might find hurtful out of malice” it would be on that someone else

― wins, Sunday, March 13, 2022 5:35 PM (forty-three seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

dude ... my avocado don't / my avocado don't ....

xp like neando didn't even go into it looking to namesearch himself because KM told him to, he went into it and ended up doing so and made a thread in anger and that spurred other posters to do the same thing apparently. if the thing with KM didn't spur him to do that anything else could've

It's not a public channel, and it would not be searchable if Slack the company hadn't offered a free promo period of having past comments archived, which will expire soon anyway and we never wanted it. So the argument that it was purposefully malicious and intended for anyone to find is completely unfounded. The conditions that would have had to be in place simply did not, do not normally, and soon WILL not, exist.

it’s gone now, you all can sleep tonight.

xps bc this holds:

ppl also, I think understandably, were posting with the assumption that after 2 years anyone who wanted to take part would have joined and nobody would be cunty enough to repeatedly draw their attention to it

It isn’t that difficult. And it’s nonsense to pretend ppl would have naturally accidentally have come across it w/o being either invited by friendly members or nudged by shitheels

it’s gone now, you all can sleep tonight.

― call all destroyer, Sunday, 13 March 2022 bookmarkflaglink

Those damn kids!

jeez, i keep on trying to respond and more bullshit keeps getting tossed on top

Why did we spend today doing the boring bit of mean girls.

Anyway it's probably worth considering your motivations here KM

yes, i've been trying to work on that post. should i just post what i have? two motivations here

xp And I think it's probably worth considering your motivations for running a parallel thread to keep tabs on posters you dislike.

ppl also, I think understandably, were posting with the assumption that after 2 years anyone who wanted to take part would have joined and nobody would be cunty enough to repeatedly draw their attention to it

It isn’t that difficult. And it’s nonsense to pretend ppl would have naturally accidentally have come across it w/o being either invited by friendly members or nudged by shitheels

and i'm explicitly saying it could've happened if someone was invited by a friendly member and they just happened to namesearch themselves. neando could've randomly thought to check the slack out for any reason at any time, he already had access to it. unless you're saying neando is cunty too for bringing it up here in anger

whatever

I only dislike one poster

who are you even, x?

I only dislike one poster

― plax (ico), Sunday, March 13, 2022 6:03 PM (thirty-three seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah I know I read it all.

I though X was Moka, but i don't know who Moka is.

https://99designs-blog.imgix.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/keep-calm-and-carry-on-17042.png

i dislike this poster

I know the name Moka

Lol sarahell

lotta posters here don't seem to understand that the archives were never visible or searchable until two weeks ago, and that was an accident/experiment that obviously went horribly wrong, and yes it is KMs fault for continually bringing it up in this new context

who are you even, x?

― Yerac, Sunday, March 13, 2022 6:03 PM (twenty-four seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

someone who has posted here on and off under a few names for a decade. i don't want to connect myself to any of those names in a post for privacy reasons because i used a government name in the past, but it's not a huge secret. i've never been a prolific poster here. this isn't personal for me, i'm not worried about people shit talking me, this whole thing just rubs me the wrong way.

xp i'm not moka, i've been thinking about getting a new name for a while because i didn't realize the X was the same as moka's X and i know it probably trips people up

we literally begged you motherfuckers to join the Friday afternoon zooms, stop fronting like it was some big secret

i don't know what the fuck any of this has to do with you X or why you're so invested in dragging it on and on but sincerely, not behind your back, fuck you and get to fuck you shit-stirring clown

Karl you can post what you like but I hold you responsible for all this unnecessary hurt and i hope eventually you can own some responsibility for it but that's on you, not any of the multiple people that your behaviour the last few weeks has impacted

i probably shdn't have come back in for this. i'm done now. gonna focus on friends not wankers

ok

Noodle otm as usual

neando could've randomly thought to check the slack out for any reason at any time, he already had access to it. unless you're saying neando is cunty too for bringing it up here in anger

“This thing that happened because one person made an effort to make it happen could have randomly eventually happened” is p disingenuous obv in an infinite universe anything could happen but you can’t fault ppl for going forward on the assumption it’s unlikely. I am v confident this would not have “just happened” and that is why I am annoyed

“You weren’t supposed to see that” doesn’t really track with me. Bullying and malicious gossip is shitty whether the person is aware of it or not. If I learned that ppl were talking shit about me behind my back I’d be mortified and furious.

It would have blown up one way or another, it's just a psychopathic thing to do and to defend afterwards. At least own up to it, some of the people who participated in it had the graciousness to apologize.

Um, I know this is all really raw and some people might not want to for whatever reason, but it might be a good idea to check to see that Neando is okay. Just sayin'. anyone talking to or in touch with him?

Oh a decade, wow

ok, i'm done and not going to post about this anymore and i regret saying anything

Bye

Bullying and malicious gossip

ftr this is not what it was in my personal experience, it was eye-rolling and venting at worst, and 99% of the time there would be a "hey I kinda like that poster" counterpoint

at least tell us who you are

anyone talking to or in touch with him?

he emailed me this morning and I wrote back

anyway as CAD noted the channel is deleted now, which everyone (I think) agrees is for the best

I think it would be much better if ilx was people in wild flame wars all the time

yeah strongly object to the characterization of bullying

Bullying and malicious gossip is shitty whether the person is aware of it or not

and it has been present on ilx proper for a long time ... like, you don't need to go to the slack for examples ... I am happy that there is a lot less of it here than there was when I started posting, but like ... it's a weird position to take in this context where there are so many extant threads where posters shit on other posters.

the stuff i found when i searched for myself on the slack was way less harsh than what exists on ilx threads about me, and what has been said about me on ilx is pretty mild compared to a number of other posters, some of whom still post here!

at least tell us who you are

― calstars, Sunday, March 13, 2022 6:19 PM (fifty-four seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

why does it matter? i'll ilxmail you if you care that much

“Talking about people is psychopathic” is a hell of a standard id expect better from ilx’s avatar of good faith discussion

hoss lol

first,

i do want to apologize for various things and to various people (and i have, already), but to do that is difficult because for the last several weeks i've been routinely described as a horrendous misogynist attacker of women, primarily by gyac but now spreading to like 6-8 different people today, that i saw? i don't know what the fuck to do when that is happening. there are all sorts of other subthreads and issues and stuff that i'd like to talk about, as well. but i need that to stop? and of course, it's one of those things where the more i explain, the more the pile-on will accelerate because people will want to defend their previous perceptions of me as accurate no matter what i say. (nonetheless, i already have like 6 different draft paragraphs trying to explain what the fuck happened)

maybe start a new thread about it, Karl?

wasn't 77 the first iteration of this and a rule was made that if someone was shit-talked they had to be invited in so they could see it or something?

Gossip and cattiness via a separate venue, keeping it on the DL is a bit weird and shitty, if you want to be mean just do it 'in public.'

“Talking about people is psychopathic” is a hell of a standard id expect better from ilx’s avatar of good faith discussion

― wins, Sunday, March 13, 2022 6:23 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I can't help you if you don't see this as a form of bullying.

Karl this has gone way beyond whatever you started it as, and you still don't seem to grasp that

Public vs private shit talk Is a huge difference to me, and idk, maybe not to everyone.

maybe start a new thread about it, Karl?

definitely not

I don't want to have to attend any struggle sessions where everyone tells me every bullshit thing they don't like about me

i'm honestly heartened that we're still capable of a good blowout, it's a sign of community health imo.

lol <3 u map

i for one sincerely hope people talk about what they find annoying about me in semi-private, it's a good bonding mechanism ime

Honestly I find there are already good ways of dealing with a poster you dislike, FP, killfile, straight communication, ignoring, etc. What in the world a secret channel improves ? You guys have been going on about me on that slack channel and really, what did it make better between us? Did we manage to find common ground and explain ourselves better? Did it stop the stupid back and forth? It's cool you guys have a slack and from what I gleaned it seemed like most threads were super positive and I'm happy for your irl friendships, there's just no need to defend that one channel that went down a slippery slope of ill intentions.

There does seem to be a fundamental disagreement here and I will say that if you believe that criticising someone out of their earshot is the same as bullying that person, I have definitely done that (not in this case but generally)

i sometimes think we get tired of not having enough to do on this board so there's gotta be a little drama, as a treat

i gotta do that tv poll already

the size of your audience matters too when it comes to talking about someone behind their back.

and who the audience is.

A group talking about a third party behind their back certainly seems like something that would fall into the bullying category to me, just a different sort of bullying than actively refusing them a seat at the cool kid's lunch table.

but you literally bullying (at least two) people off of ILX is just fine, got it

the slack channel is deleted now so i think it's probably best to drop it

imma just say one thing, a short personal story. my wife dealt with lots of gossip in her last workplace. it emphasized who the "cool" people are and reinforced the divisions of people into cliques. It caused her untold misery. More than you might even think is reasonable, but I can't deny that the impact on her was SEVERE, and BAD. Obviously ILX is not a workplace, but the psychological impacts of gossip have been studied and they're not good.

now i'm done w this thread and back to politics and bullshit only. yall please try to be kind to each other.

neando could've randomly thought to check the slack out for any reason at any time, he already had access to it. unless you're saying neando is cunty too for bringing it up here in anger

“This thing that happened because one person made an effort to make it happen could have randomly eventually happened” is p disingenuous obv in an infinite universe anything could happen but you can’t fault ppl for going forward on the assumption it’s unlikely. I am v confident this would not have “just happened” and that is why I am annoyed

― wins, Sunday, March 13, 2022 6:11 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

idk, i think it's plausible that people would find it. maybe neanderthal isn't the only one, and he's just the first to flame out about it? when i first got on 77 like twelve years ago i did a search for my username and found a post where ethan p was making fun of an (extremely cringey) dn of mine in the 'unfinest of display names' thread. someone on here (not KM) dm'd me a while ago telling me that people were posting about me on slack. it made my ears burn for half a day, but ultimately i didn't bother to check

wasn't 77 the first iteration of this and a rule was made that if someone was shit-talked they had to be invited in so they could see it or something?

Gossip and cattiness via a separate venue, keeping it on the DL is a bit weird and shitty, if you want to be mean just do it 'in public.'

― papal hotwife (milo z), Sunday, March 13, 2022 6:28 PM (twenty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

milo otm. i think the claim that the blame should fall on the person who lets someone know they're being shit-talked about publicly on the internet rather than those doing the shit-talking, as some are making itt, is wrong

someone recently said to me that gossip is what happens when people feel like they don't have the agency or power to express their opinions in public without harm being done to them.

i think some of the content both on the slack channel and in other ilx threads that have similar content is definitely related to that. there is also some cattiness (figuratively and literally)

ian: i'm sorry about what yr wife experienced and i don't want to come across as crass

idk about that. the targets of this gossip don't seem like powerful people.

the slack channel is deleted now so i think it's probably best to drop it

― treeship., Sunday, March 13, 2022 6:55 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

But I was planning to boycott the secret Slack channel in response to never having been invited to the secret Facebook group.

someone recently said to me that gossip is what happens when people feel like they don't have the agency or power to express their opinions in public without harm being done to them.

Sorry to flatly contradict, but as someone who was a victim of intense homophobic gossip and workplace bullying in 2018 that caused me temporary PTSD, I think the view expressed to you recently is both harmful and wrong.

like the boxedjoy post that Neando flamed out over was very much (to me) of the "lacking agency or power" variety. It also is related to the different uses people (because we are people) have for ilx, and the degrees of emotional engagement one has. Because there is a fairly diverse spectrum of emotional engagement on ilx! There are a lot of ilxors who are fairly emotionally detached from this place, not saying this as a critique at all. It's a nice place to be emotionally detached. Posting about games and music and making puns is a respite!

But there are people who post about serious topics about which they have serious emotional attachment, and a lot of the conflict I perceive is when that buts against the emotionally detached posters. Neando posted regularly about serious topics and he had serious emotional attachment to the things he posted about. In politics threads, I feel like this is also a source of conflict when it comes to posters that seriously want to engage and challenge instances of oppression, white supremacy, misogyny, transphobia, etc. Whereas for other posters, the detachment allows them to post dispassionately about things and not quickly grasp why certain things would be hurtful to people who aren't detached.

Sorry to flatly contradict, but as someone who was a victim of intense homophobic gossip and workplace bullying in 2018 that caused me temporary PTSD, I think the view expressed to you recently is both harmful and wrong.

― Luna Schlosser, Sunday, March 13, 2022 4:09 PM (one minute ago)

Omg I am so sorry that happened to you, Luna S. Fuck. I think the problem with that statement is that "the lack of agency and power" also applies to bigots being "deprived" of their supremacy and right to express and manifest their hatred without retribution.

I just feel like this is an important conversation to have on the actual forum instead of sniping from a secret thread, like if this is the real issue then why were you guys counting FPs before a ban or discussing the supposed wealth's of a poster's father.

xpost to Sarahell

we literally begged you motherfuckers to join the Friday afternoon zooms, stop fronting like it was some big secret

Where? Not trying to cause a fight or anything, I'm just curious.

I also never saw the Zoom invites.

I posted the thread link in the Admin Log thread, not gonna do it again here and Tom I like u just fine, no fighting

we stopped doing it when burrito/del showed up and was creepy to everyone, iirc

VHS: idk ... there are issues here that relate to equity (e.g. posts bringing up female posters avoiding or leaving ilx) that saying "why can't you just engage with me right here?" kinda reinforces some of the reason for the backchannel conversations?

^^^ sarahell otm and that is another part of the discussion that is being overlooked

i'm going to step back because i was inadvertently pulled into this issue by having a lot of the discussion take place on a sub-board I'm a mod of, and getting info from other posters so that i could do a better job of being a moderator ... i wasn't even on the slack until today.

first, i had no idea that you could search the archive and find old things said about people. i definitely feel horrible that those people saw old messages. That was not at all why I kept leaving breadcrumbs to the slack over the last few weeks, it wasn't like some plan to introduce people to the horrible comments that were made about them. neando wrote to me this morning and said it wasn't my fault and not to feel bad, but it was definitely related to something i did, and i do feel bad. Same for others who had a similar experience. that is not at all what i thought would happen, but it did anyway, and i'm really sorry about that.

i feel it necessary to add that i didn't tell anyone they were getting shit talked on the internet. i didn't tip anyone off, specifically. it wasn't about any one unique person getting made fun of all the time - there were multiple people getting made fun of who have been very supportive to me during a rough time and just don't deserve it. i called that out on the slack, and gyac was pissed, and it all went downhill from there. i understand why those on the slack, especially the (now deleted?) ilx channel, which, ironically, was titled #onethread, were of the opinion that it was just fine to keep up all the shit-talking, because it's selection bias; anyone who is left on that channel is by definition someone who thinks it's fine or at least tolerates it. i put up a minor stink about it, and shockingly, absolutely no one agreed with me there. also, as i knew, a lot of people here think that's not ok at all.

so i wanted - i feel like the scooby doo villain at the end of the episode, now - people to at least know that it existed and to know how they could find it, if they wanted to know more. i did not know that the whole Archive search thing was even a possibility, and yeah, i feel very bad about that now. i agree with sleeve, who now fucking hates me? (that one stings more than most of the others who believed gyac, for some reason. do you know what i posted? do you know what i deleted? did you know why? did you ever talk to me about that?), that the ramifications of it are far beyond what i was originally thinking of. i was trying to rip-off a band-aid that i thought was ugly, myself. i wasn't trying to open up the archives, i just knew that the people doing the shit-talking wouldn't do it to the person's face. (i feel that way about ted cruz and covid, tangent). to have that kind of bullshit going on, constantly, with the tacit endorsement of the slack, combined with gyac's repeatedly trying to make me out as a serial woman abuser, and how everyone went along with that, AND to have the same crew of people sprinkle ILX with who knows how many flakes of "you suck! you suck at posting! all of you are the worst! you fucking suck at this thread!", on top of all the shit-talking at slack? just went beyond the pale to me. too many ironies, and it's just like, find another fucking messageboard that you don't hate so much?

so, i think i was trying to do a good thing, because i don't like people talking shit on my friends. in real life, if i heard one friend absolutely shit-talking the other, i would do something about it too. it would be way more direct than what happened here, i think -- i think that depending on my relationships with the two people, i'd either inform the person getting shit-talked, or i'd confront the shit-talker and let them know not to do that when i'm around, at least. on the internet, that all played out a little differently, but i did try to confront the shit-talker, the answer was a resounding NO (or indifference) from the ilx slack, and so i went to the side of the equation who i cared about and let them know, instead.

i'm sure gyac is barfing at how self-serving this view is. i messed up a bunch of people's lives, and i swear, it's because i was trying to do a good thing!

but yeah, i guess all i managed to accomplish was for the center of off-board shit-talking to navigate to a new arena, because i agree that it is inevitable. some of those arguments are very disingenuous as well, about the multiple platforms, facebook friends on ILX, the old AIM Chatz, all that. what was going on the slack was qualitatively different. but they're right, gossiping is a fact of life, and it will continue somewhere. in the same way that workmates, at a happy hour will spend all night talking shit about everyone they know at work. it is a tradition. however, the way it works is that you're allowed to shit talk, and i'm also allowed to have a human reaction to my friends being the target. the way i went about letting them know that it was happening was i think about the most indirect way i could do it. i figured all that would happen is that the #onethread assholes would dial it back a bit.

From what I've seen female posters were much more comfortable being themselves on said backchannel, which means that indeed, the situation on the actual forum is sad. I 100% recognize that.

To be fair, I only have a problem with the one mobbing channel. The notion of an ilxor slack, secret even, doesn't bother me at all, invited or not, it's knowing we are discussed and some of the stuff that was said was just vile and it led to nothing constructive.

xpost to sarahell

ppl also, I think understandably, were posting with the assumption that after 2 years anyone who wanted to take part would have joined and nobody would be cunty enough to repeatedly draw their attention to it

It isn’t that difficult. And it’s nonsense to pretend ppl would have naturally accidentally have come across it w/o being either invited by friendly members or nudged by shitheels

Said this elsewhere and got yellow carded for it, but:

If you have a semi-secret place that, while theoretically open to people, relies on them not knowing about it so you can pour buckets of shit on them behind their backs with impunity, then you are the cunt.

i fp'd because i'm not a fucking shitheel

Same

What does cunty mean

it's kind of like a feeling in your gut

James seems to have experience with it

ftr boxedjoy is an extremely good person who i like a lot.

my stance on gossip in case anyone cares is that i have moved from tending to do it, to tending not to do it, out of purely selfish reasons - i've noticed that by not doing it, more people generally have more affection for me, and my place in a community like ilx becomes more solid.

that being said, i am grateful for people who call others out on melt-y bullshit lately. sometimes i do a little bit of it myself, but i've learned that my emotions are too chaotic to do it in the principled and thoughtful way it (usually) deserves to be done in. i maintain that sometimes a "go fuck yourself" is warranted and is much less offensive than the smarmy dickhead stuff that gets peddled out regularly on certain threads.

i've gotten a lot better at doing a "mental killfile" where i literally skip past every post made by a short (ok medium) list of people. if folks don't feel like pushing back against certain smotheringly bad drama llama ripe-ass presences on here, i highly recommend it as a "way around."

fwiw what i saw when i searched for myself on that channel was some complaints and negative comments and other ilxors saying positive things or offering alternative explanations for my perceived problematic behavior. i actually felt better seeing that, the way those conversations went. I also remember being new on ilx and having very few posters defend me when posters attacked me or talked shit about me on sub-boards or threads i hadn't posted on, and that's a shitty feeling. I definitely am not of the "it's just a message borad" feeling. However, I do want to say, that some of the shit-talking that happened seemed to derive from the subjects of the shit-talking having engaged in making the person doing the shit-talking feel like shit.

It definitely isn't all one type of thing or all another.

Karl I still think you have a lot to work on here, I'm gonna leave it at that. I don't hate you but I am frustrated and disappointed. I can't really talk about the 77-related content that kicked all this off, but people were concerned about some posts being made, and checked in w/each other on slack and were able to make posts on 77 that helped and made a difference. that was probably a violation of 77 and a mistake but it was definitely a no-harm-no-foul situation. then it seemed to me like you got really mad about that. and things went downhill from there. that's my take.

and map is otm about mental killfile, I do try my best

As a female poster on ILX, I've got to say the idea that there's a whole group of people who might be bitching about me or looking up info about my past to ridicule me with their gang, well, THAT makes me fucking uncomfortable about being here. It makes me feel incredibly vulnerable.

I'd love there to be more women here. I try to moderate sexism out as best I can but it's difficult when it's so often couched in plausible deniability and I don't want to be yelled at for overstepping again; I've tried inviting more women to be mods but that hasn't worked out. But I think it's disingenuous at best to suggest that shit-talking people on slack is some sort of feminism.

xp james - i yellowcarded you because i don't feel like i'm a good enough mod to handle moderating a thread of this seriousness. i didn't want it to come across as stop expressing your opinion because that's above my lol paygrade as a moderator

We might have differing opinions on Karl’s posts etc but I really find the accusations of misogyny against him are completely out of bounds and unacceptable

i...don't want to contribute to further bad feeling for anyone, but is it possible to get a better sense of what the posters who view KM's pattern of posting as sexist or misogynistic mean? if that would involve putting anyone's private business on the street, than i rescind my request, but i am honestly surprised by that as it doesn't seem consistent with his posting history. if this seems like shit-stirring, then ignore it. i am just confused and disheartened.

xxp

then it seemed to me like you got really mad about that. and things went downhill from there. that's my take.

someone can prove me wrong, but i have a hard time believing that i got mad about that someone checking in on me. my general reaction to that kind of thoughtfulness is "i really appreciate it", and then either a longwinded explanation of why i'm not ok, or "i'm ok." i use that word "appreciate" very often, and i think i would do it that situation as well. i do remember people reaching out to me then, and feeling like something i had said or done was wildly misinterpreted, and feeling like i'd done something awful but couldn't figure out what it was. if there is something horrible i said in response to someone, i would appreciate it if you would send it to me (ilxmail) is ok so i can respond that person directly. but that doesn't sound like me, sorry. i genuinely really appreciate it when i can tell people care for me, and that is how i would interpret that, unless i had completely lost my mind.

sorry, i hate to just deny deny deny. i swear, i am a confessor. my gf makes so much fun of me for that - if i think there's a 10% chance i'm wrong on something, i'll go ahead and apologize and swear to fix it. the bullshit that has been going on, so much of it from gyac and then people just adopting her side of the story, it's not like that. i can't apologize for that shit. i'll apologize for the people who found out that were being made fun of, that they found out that way. i didn't think they'd see the archived messages at all (it doesn't sound like you all did, either)

i'm not able to add a lot because i was not around as much during the times that was going on because my cat was sick/died. i do not believe based on his broader history that karl is a misogynist, but i also never saw anyone accuse him of being a "serial woman abuser" and that everyone went along with that specific perception. i thought the issue was that you had used an insult/lashed out rather than directly addressing the behavior you objected to, and that other people who had seen the same posts agreed with that, then were not satisfied you had recognized it (this latter part was what i saw). from what i saw a lot of people did not find it to be in character. if someone said you were a serial woman abuser and everyone just agreed with that characterization, i did not observe that at all. i don't know about the believing/not believing gyac because i thought this was people who had seen what happened, not a second-hand account. that is all i can add, don't want to speak for others.

I try to moderate sexism out as best I can but it's difficult when it's so often couched in plausible deniability and I don't want to be yelled at for overstepping again

ugh yeah this otm.

Loads of times this past month or so I've been tempted to point out little 'male as default' stuff and then decided I can't be bothered with the ensuing argument or wilful misunderstanding and the feeling I'm being not very kind/nitpicking. But it's being noticed.

The fact this Slack episode has been discussed over several different threads through everyone's different personal lenses means I still don't really know what was posted where and by whom and if they were sub-tweeting or whatever. But KM has always seemed like consistently good people (as has Neanderthal, I hope he doesn't go).

always good to see a horseshoe too x

We might have differing opinions on Karl’s posts etc but I really find the accusations of misogyny against him are completely out of bounds and unacceptable

― just1n3, Sunday, March 13, 2022 6:40 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i...don't want to contribute to further bad feeling for anyone, but is it possible to get a better sense of what the posters who view KM's pattern of posting as sexist or misogynistic mean? if that would involve putting anyone's private business on the street, than i rescind my request, but i am honestly surprised by that as it doesn't seem consistent with his posting history. if this seems like shit-stirring, then ignore it. i am just confused and disheartened.

xxp

― horseshoe,

thank you, i would also like to know more, for real. i am assuming it is about one horrible night when i told a channel that I hoped "everyone would die of COVID". that was very dumb and i've apologized for that several times. it was so dumb that i deleted it within a minute (another unforgivable offense, as i'm told). but it wasn't fucking misogynistic. and that characterization of it was _immediate_ - it was part of what was making me so angry and feeling betrayed in the first place

having said that, i will pledge to stfu until those that want to speak about it have said their fill. that's hard for me (i talk way the fuck too much, obviously), but i want to know, especially because if there is anything in there that even gave the hint of misogyny, that makes me feel horrible and i think people who know me will know how hard i would work to not do anything that even suggests it. i'm sorry to get very defensive about it, but i feel extremely defensive about that because i grew up in a conservative family of misogynists (dad was the biblical head of household authority, etc) and i have always tried to act in the exact opposite way. it is important to me and i'm not trying to dodge it. it's what makes all the accusations really hard to hear.

sorry to hear that harbl :(

i'm sorry about your cat, harbl!

hi kinder!

xxp

Stop abasing yourself KM, you are being gaslit

I was an onlooker to the whole thing, not directly involved. I haven't seen specific content from km that I would label misogynistic. I think if anything it's just a bit easier to blow up at people who make less intimidating targets and you don't think will snap back at you, but then again he went after gyac so case NOT in point.

if the slack wasn't private i don't understand why someone would be at fault for "calling attention to it"

i have a hard time believing that i got mad about that someone checking in on me

the discussion was abt someone else entirely that ppl were concerned abt? and that's what you got mad about? you yelled about "sniping from a distance" when what was actually happening was that the poster who folks were worried abt was saying "wow thanks for the input everyone" on actual ILX

but I defer to in orbit and harbl here, xps

I also said in channel after the fact that I thought there had been some needling going both directions in that outburst, and that if I were in your position I would have had a reaction as well. And that I didn't want to feel pressured to expel someone in order to be on good terms with the community of slaxors.

What I object to the most is km dropping breadcrumbs on other threads and trying to stir people up to fight a battle that he had already tried on his own and not liked the results of, and having lots of people in a kerfuffle over it.

it's just a bit easier to blow up at people who make less intimidating targets and you don't think will snap back at you, but then again he went after gyac so case NOT in point.

― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Sunday, March 13, 2022 4:53 PM

otm ... also kinder otm.

combined with gyac's repeatedly trying to make me out as a serial woman abuser

Before you go, can we just be clear that this is complete bullshit that you made up, and are slandering gyac with? I'm not saying you made it up to slander her, but you did make it up, and you are slandering her. So can we be clear on that, before you go?

no

boundaries

^ this is a really good thread and i feel like some of the stuff discussed in it might be good to think about now

I'm very much one of those "emotionally detached" people sarahell mentioned earlier and, in order to maintain that detachment, which I'm intent on doing, I'm quitting here for a while. This whole shitshow is the last straw tbh.

thank you Andrew, wtf Karl

here we go again

if this is related to that 77 thread that I think I posted in at the time, can someone lmk?

xp
do i need to dig up the posts? i refuse to go on the slack again and search. i think there's one just this morning, just before the thread was locked, with gyac saying this about Brad Nelson:

Weird that said buddy is a lot more popular with female posters than you’ll ever be, chief. Anyway, entirely good faith posting from someone who’s never happy unless he’s harassing women on ilx afaict, this of course is all very acceptable 🤗🤗🤗

god, please don't make me dig up all these posts and stuff. i'm not even trying to do that, i'm not trying to smear her name or whatever, i just want - ironically, the same thing andrew and sleeve just accused me of - for her to stop making up slanderous bullshit about me. she's done that to multiple people, and she did it to the wrong person

The speed at which some posters come to use words like 'misogynist' and 'islamophobe' is also not helping. Some posters admitted themselves that they won't give the benefit of the doubt to people and just assume ill intent but it think it leads to understanding at all (some of my posting has been made in the spirit of punching back). No one serious will believe KM is a misogynist, and I've been called an islamophobe and it's deeply insulting when I have time and time again acted and posted against islamophobic laws in my province, systemic islamophobia in France and worked with muslim war refugees in South Asia (and continue to work on pretty soon).

I wonder how much having an echo chamber like that mobbing slack channel amplify this inability to listen, it doesn't help that there's a defence of posters calling people the c-word (how's that for the promotion of female participants on ilxor btw) because people happen to come from a certain nationality but espousing views that are considering 'centrist' is haram for certain people.

the posts are gone, KM.

please don't make me dig up all these posts and stuff

then stop

hmm, i can still see them?

fuck this site forever

convenient time to stop sleeve

no it's dinnertime, I'm making red beans and rice

okay, i'm sorry i asked for further clarification...didn't mean to make contributors to the slack channel feel like they were obligated to explain anything to me...it seems like a situation i won't understand because i wasn't there, and that's fine. i do feel sad there seems to be such bad feeling in the wake of what happened; again, i like all the posters involved. (KM, gyac, and Neanderthal, that is.)

i like neando quite a bit, and i don't think he's coming back. i regret that a lot.

xp oh sorry i thought you meant the posts in slack

"you are lying about someone calling you a misogynist"
KM presents proof of being characterised as misogynist
"stop it" (subtext KM is bad for defending himself?)

Gaslighting 101?

not sure that gyac post is about KM, but again, i should probably stay out of it

still not seeing anyone calling karl a misogynist but w/e xp

True it looks like that is the case. I rescind and apologies for my post then

xp it's not, it's about someone else, like i described. i didn't go back to the ones that involved me, because it was the second most recent post i could find for her. it's something that she does all the time, to lots of people. no one ever says anything.

That gyac post was directed at Van Horn Street, fwiw

xp completely untrue, stop letting your persecution complex and fixation on a single beef derail the entire board

I say this with love, asshole. I wish I could give you a bong hit right now.

sorry, not second most recent. like fifth ore something. i'm sure now i will be accused of stalking her and being obsessed (as she has also said about me, and to which no one at all disagreed with, at least not that i saw)

Karl, that bit you posted was, I believe, an xpost to Van Horn Street, and is kind of a fair accusation in that context imo. It would be an awful, awful thing to say to Brad for so many reasons, but I'm 99% sure it wasn't directed there.

I haven't been witness to the "needling" posts you've made, but you do go on massive posting runs sometimes and it would probably help if you restrained yourself here.

I feel like some of this does need to be aired out on the board so I'm not closing the discussion unless I have to, but if people can try to be as good to each other as possible that would be great. It's getting late, I'd rather be playing computer games, there are very few mods on this board, and this particular one is feeling pretty emotionally fragile.

one time years ago i searched my DN and even though the results werent mean, it felt weird. i was shy abt posting for a long time initially bc i felt like i didnt belong, and so seeing ~anything~ posted about me at all was in a way, a kind of confirmation bias.
i can’t quite explain it.

anyway. it is hard to find belonging in life and online, the rules arent always clear. and there is nothing worse than feeling like you have transgressed the rules just by being your self.

but i enjoy everyone obv (pvmic) and imo none of this would happen if everyone just posted about 70’s rock, and action movies :D

Drugs are obviously bad but I think this whole board could do with a massive bong hit and a trip to the Bahamas right about now

"anyway. it is hard to find belonging in life and online, the rules arent always clear. and there is nothing worse than feeling like you have transgressed the rules just by being your self."

otm

It's getting late, I'd rather be playing computer games, there are very few mods on this board, and this particular one is feeling pretty emotionally fragile.

i'm sorry about that. for real, for that alone i will just stop posting. i feel drained. i feel very disappointed. i want to defend myself. i can't believe everyone did this. i can't believe everyone did that. i can't believe i did this or that. it sucks because i like pretty much everyone on ilx except for gyac, and a bunch of people sided with her without even talking to me about it. i know i'm just supposed to grin and bear it, but i hate it, so much. i am going to close my computer and i'll be back tomorrow to contend with whatever else people want to say

just wanna say that if you read that locked thread it’s obvious gyac’s post is aimed at aimless not me

sorry if this was covered upthread, i just needed to clarify as soon as i saw my name invoked in this clusterfuck

sorry brad, it wasn't covered upthread, it hasn't been a focus at all. i'm sorry to bring you into it and i can see from context that you both get along very well (as does gyac with a lot of other people)

or it was vhs, who can keep track

consider why you’re so fixated on a female poster

And if my mocking impression of gyac is harassment towards a female poster (to be clear I have never mentioned her gender), then gyac has a pretty long list of harassing posts on and off board against me and thus makes her a vile anti-semite.

Seems to me the case of someone who dishes out a lot but can't take it.

it’s ok km emotions are really heightened! im going to return to being the only person updating the one hot minute thread

Karl Malone, you are one of ilx's most valuable posters. Don't let the bastards get you down. Don't worry about what gyac thinks of you. Remember the time she told Alfred to "get fucked"? Says it all, imo.

vhs you are a chronic shit stirrer and you shouldn’t post here

yeah, VHS, you're obviously not posting in good faith; btw thanks for your "how can i be an islamophobe, some of my best friends are mooslems" post, v enlightening

I've had negative interactions and positive interactions on here,.sometimes with the same people.

At a certain point, it might be best if you don't like someone to just killfile them.

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular. Just a general note.

Not sure I still have pieced together what happened, but I just want to say that both KM and Neando have been really kind to me when I was struggling and I just want them to know it was both noted and appreciated. Neando went so far as to reach out to me outside the board to check in with me, something that I’d never experienced before. Dude is a really kind and caring person and ilx is all the better for having him around. I hope he doesn’t stay gone.

^yes

thank you, jon. i hope he doesn't either

we stopped doing it when burrito/del showed up and was creepy to everyone, iirc

― thinkmanship (sleeve), Sunday, 13 March 2022 23:21 (yesterday) link

wtf? uhh, I sure hope this isn't referring to me, esp seeing as I have never been on a zoom conference ever, in any context whatsoever. Who is burrito? Please explain what this is about.

yeah, VHS, you're obviously not posting in good faith; btw thanks for your "how can i be an islamophobe, some of my best friends are mooslems" post, v enlightening

― horseshoe, Sunday, March 13, 2022 8:34 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think that what I mentioned goes a bit deeper than saying 'my best friends are mooslems' but if this is all you get from my post, I can't help it. I do think it's hard to be cornered into being accused of something you aren't, like KM being called a misogynist and any defense will be seen as bad faith because some have made up their minds that he is. I just beg to try to give people the benefit of the doubt. No one is as awful as you might think they are.

Very different del, Del Griffith, aka user burrito. Pure troll, since permabanned. xp

I cannot and should not expect everyone to like me 100% of the time, and i do not like 100% of people 100% of the time myself.

We all read people's comments and sometimes roll our eyes at them, we all have opinions and reactions even if we dont type a response.

But even with the specific individuals and shitty behaviours who I dislike, i keep coming back. As we all do. Why is that? It's because we feel this is a community we want to belong to. The internet is big enough that other options are available but here we are.

We cannot force everyone to get along. Gossip, bitchery, frustrations - theyll always happen, in DMs and off-board Facebook chats and whatever else. I think we can choose to accept that it happens and make our peace with that.

I can guess what people think about me: judgemental, patronising, basic, emotional, bitter, self-indulgent. I wouldnt think they were wrong.

xp Jeepers creepers, thank you, WmC! That really threw me...

boxedjoy, you don't have to criticize yourself like that in the last sentence. from most of what i've seen, you're not those things.

i was never trying to "force" anyone to get along. to me, i'm just reminded of the thing about freedom of speech. we're free to say what we want, for the most part, and also other people are free to let others know about things that were complete bullshit. i don't have to "accept that it happens" - you could say the same about..(let me escalate tremendously) CAPITAL MURDER - it happens ok, let's just make our peace with it. well, it does happen, and we have to make our peace with that part of it, but you still try to stop it when you see it

My assumption is that everyone here is a reasonably nice person IRL. Maybe the formation of cliques is inevitable, I've never had an office job or otherwise been forced to be around large groups of people that weren't 100% voluntary associates since school, so the presumption that 'people will talk' is foreign to me.

And if my mocking impression of gyac is harassment towards a female poster (to be clear I have never mentioned her gender)

okay whoa ... uh, would you mind walking that back or reflecting on how this comes across ???

i am pretty sure he's a troll fwiw, sarahell

I've never had an office job or otherwise been forced to be around large groups of people that weren't 100% voluntary associates since school, so the presumption that 'people will talk' is foreign to me.

it happens a lot in groups of people that are 100% voluntary associates ... sometimes the IRL dimension makes it less fraught, but most of the time it makes it even more so ... maybe i am not understanding what you're getting at, milo?

I read it as "I've never been a part of a group where talking about people behind their backs was seen as a given, if not a positive."

Also lol @ the not-misogynist using "female" as a noun. Unfortunately VHS can not walk it back because, oops, banned. (NB this was not an abuse of power it was the will of the people.)

xp to previous sarahell post

Very different del, Del Griffith, aka user burrito. Pure troll, since permabanned. xp

― Everybody Loves Ramen (WmC), Sunday, March 13, 2022 5:48 PM (ten minutes ago)

at one point he was definitely not pure troll -- we actually had pretty chill discussions about mexican food in El Cajon/San Diego area ... also I think he had some good solid posts to California politics thread ... like, he was not one of those troll-for-a-day posters that mods quickly ban because they are pure troll. He wasn't even Raccoon Tanuki level obnoxious. ... until he "went there"

sometimes people just snap

this seems to be a fundamental disagreement among a number of posters. let me know if i'm misstating this, but it seems to be

- people are mean assholes to each other, and we should keep that a secret
- people are mean assholes to each other, and it's better to make that known

i completely understand that reasonable heads will disagree on that one, it's not cut and dry at all (despite arguments to the contrary). i'm sure that won't deter anyone from saying that the answer is crystal clear, but this is a 45% / 55% kind of issue, if i had to guess. it's not even like one is necessarily better than the other. i see them as two different approaches in life, and sometimes one makes more sense than the others, either as a consistent thing for bullheaded people, or as a case-by-case kind of thing to those who aren't binary thinkers. if it's not clear, in many times in my life i've been one, and others i've been the other. it depends. in this case, i thought that since the main defense of the slack shit-talkers was that it was a public slack and everyone was well-informed about it, i would just check in with ilx and see if they were informed about it. soon afterward i decided it would be better to make it known, and that has led to lots of bad things ever since

so like, i think the fact that it is now known that there was a shittalking board has permanently damaged ilx. people will be more self-conscious here.

i also think it is not your fault this was discovered. this shittalking board was barely private.

when it comes to general principles, i think people should let off steam in smaller groups if this is something they need to do.

i want to say, just so things are confused, that almost everything on slack was FINE. jeez, i'm not the fucking police, i wasn't trying to ban all talk of ilx. there were some times on that channel, #onethread, that were really nice too. just before i left, i remember hearing all sorts of cool stories about people meeting up with ilxors in real life and how awesome that was, almost universally

there were some other things said on there that weren't very nice though

it's just that one thread which is now gone

many xps - That the formation of smaller groups that talk behind each other's backs is not my experience in the world and that "gossiping is a fact of life, and it will continue somewhere" (which was Karl's post but there are echoes of it from other posters) is a strange and foreign truth to me. It seems more like the product of environments that aren't chosen (ie work, school) - as with your post about agency. Gossiping about the boss because you can't tell them to stuff it on a regular basis - okay, I get that, been there.

i objected to the shit talking, and i know that not everyone would agree. in the same way, the "posts you had second thoughts about", i previously tango'd with many of the very same people, several years ago, about my dissatisfaction with how they used the thread to passive-aggressively shit-talk people. a few months later, i'd find myself giving in and also making fun of someone, on the same thread, and later feeling bad about it. but yeah, i participated. great.

the slack existed for well over a year without any ilx talk because the slack was largely drama free and people no longer posted to ilx for reasons or wanted to maintain a separation. Oddly enough, we just realized today who started the "ilx slack channel" and they only posted a handful of times there.

there were some other things said on there that weren't very nice though

YES

thank you. i got sidetracked, trying to explain how i actually sympathized with the people shit-talking for years on end. but YES, you're right. it very much sucked to see them do that to you and several other people i very much respect and who were there for me. along with, admittedly, the majority of their targets, which were people who suck at posting and should have shut the fuck up. that's the problem. most of them time, i found myself agreeing with them, and joining in too. then it starts to target someone who you actually know a little bit better, and you know it's not true. whoops. that's what the conflict rose up. what do you fucking do?

wait. When people on ilxor.com have been hashtagging #onethread, was that a reference to the slack channel?

Nah, the IRC channel.

there was also an actual television channel, like a local access nyc channel, where people would talk shit about ilxors while sitting around an oak table

this rabbit-hole keeps getting deeper.

Also, I've missed all the drama of the past day or so because I've had a medical emergency in my immediate family - implausibly coincidental timing I'm sure at least one person is thinking. So my lack of direct responses to what I'm in the middle of is solely a result of that. I've reached out to Neando to hopefully put issues right, but I do not want to have that conversation on an open thread because I believe the situation warrants more respect.

xxxp - It was all downhill after the episode where the Beastie Boys and Butthole Surfers sat in.

NO!

lol

but no! from my vantagepoint, i started using #onethread on ilx as a joke, who knows how long ago, a year or two ago. i was stoned, ok? to me it's like a funny running gag, that despite all the threads to ilx there's like #onethread, know what i mean?

at some point on slack that became the name of the channel for talking about ilx (which, for the most part, for the majority of people i saw on there, was generally in a kind and respectful way, for real. i've tried to make clear throughout that my problem is not with ilx, that i'm disappointed and sad at the people who used to know me on slack, that they fucking hate me so much that they'd immediately take the side of a liar, but that i don't blame them because we should listen to people who accuse people of sexist behavior, and that despite all of this bullshit i will continue to do that because i don't think people gyac are the norm

xps

Loling at grown ass "intelligent" adults doing the "the real problem here is the person who informed others that we all were talking shit about people!" thing

i mean, it's in the faq. first rule of ilx -- no snitching.

That the formation of smaller groups that talk behind each other's backs is not my experience in the world ... It seems more like the product of environments that aren't chosen (ie work, school) - as with your post about agency.

there are generally going to be power imbalances within groups. There are going to be people who are not happy with how power is distributed. Some of the gossip is going to be "punching up" and there can very well be the "punching down" variety that ian and Luna Schlosser referred to. There are also going to be people that are annoyed by other people in the group, and will engage in gossip about that, because people are messy and communication is hard. some of it is related to issues discussed in the boundaries thread.

i guess i am mostly talking about stuff like music scenes, or art scenes, or activist groups or idk even knitting circles.

i am not arguing that gossip is inherently good or coming from a place of justice.

at one point he was definitely not pure troll

Ah, ok. I do kind of remember his name and them not seeming unreasonable.

Also ftr I don't mind being viewed in a negative light -- which I fully deserve for sins both on and off of here. Was just disturbing to be scrolling through this thread and confronted w possibly being accused of something I never did, or having to wonder if someone was impersonating me. But, maybe serves me right for voyeuristically reading about dramas that aren't really any of my biznass. Vibes are wacky, blame the stars!

Three can keep a secret if two are banned.

i mean, it's in the faq. first rule of ilx -- no snitching.

interesting thing - as far as i can tell, the opinion of the slack is that they're not ilx or even related to it. i objected to this several months before (i lose track of the timelimne, sorry, a while back), and the consensus was that once again, i was completely wrong and that it had nothing to do with ilx

and they're right, it's not ilx, in the strictest terms. it's the strong/weak version of any argument. i meant it in the weak sense, they understood it and rejected it in the strong sense

the slack is called ILX i thought

yeah weird huh

anyway, i don't mean to dredge that up. i completely disagreed with those that completely disagreed with me, it wasn't a huge deal

i guess i just kinda feel like the people who said hurtful things about other people who would feel bad if the subject of the things knew what was said ... like if apologies could happen, and conversations about how to get along better can happen, then that's the best outcome.

Like if all parties are coming from a place where they want to do this.

yes

i very much do not want that

totally get that

there were people way more hurt than me. neanderthal of course but also others i've talked to today.

i'm sorry. i'm really sorry. i feel like a nitpicking jerk on this thread, the worst side of me, but i never intended for you (or others) to see those old messages. i should have thought about that, and even though i think it's a better thing that people know what was happening, i didn't think that it would be crash like this. i really didn't mean to get you involved. you can ilxmail me if you want. i'm not trying to shit this thread up.

i am fine. it wasn't that bad. i had seen onethread before and knew the kinds of things people said... i just was curious today and searched the archives and saw some stuff i really didn't like but then the person responsible has already apologized.

what would you want treeship?

i got what i wanted. the thread was locked or deleted.

i just want to get it down somewhere that i spent a portion of this afternoon deleting personal and family photos from the slack because the invite link had been posted again in the context of us all being accused of operating a dedicated board for the purpose of planning coordinated bullying of people on ilx.

Yeah that's not the accusation. People talked shit about other posters and the targets found out about it. Stop blaming other ppl for your own bad behavior.

i know what happened. i'm well aware that everyone here feels the ends justified the means.

people here were 100% implying that the slack existed for the sole purpose of talking about ilx and that we were coordinating bullying of ilx users on the slack.

in the context of us all being accused of operating a dedicated board for the purpose of planning coordinated

i hope it's clear that this is not the case. i did see a few others upthread and elsewhere who seems to suggest that, but i thought it was clear that it's not what was going on. i don't want anyone to have an idea that there's this slack filled with people plotting and stuff. just like ilx, it's a very heterogeneous group and the vast, VAST majority, i KNOW 100% are very good people, have experience with them in one direction, trying to be there for them or them for me, i just know it's true. that's what most of the slack is like. ilx, it's a little more diverse and there are more outright trolls, i can't make that same claim, lol. but imagine ilx, but amplified. that is what the slack was like, i liked everyone there quite a bit, i just have a problem with one very specific person in particular lying about me

Some people were idk I haven't read every post.
So you want the record to show that you weren't doing that, you were merely talking shit about other ppl ad hoc. Uh ok duly noted.

this discussion is way too ornate and inscrutable to those of us not privy to it

fwiw I don’t think many of us here care about the 77 or ilx slack cliques or want to be invited to them, they just seem like they are about reliving high school

So many tensions might be eased if everyone refrained from speaking in binary absolutes and assuming that others are doing likewise.

And also if we all just tried a little harder to acknowledge the complex personhood that lies behind the dn. Whole lotta good eggs here, y'all.

the invite link was up for a very short time before it got deleted. if the issue is showing that the accusations were ridiculous, then, how would you have felt best about someone going about proving that, CAD?

I felt like, in the context of how the thread was going, there were a handful of posters that felt better after it was posted so that they didn't feel excluded, and many of them were welcomed by other people who were members of the slack.

Y'all let me know when there's a Signal group chat.

xpost lol, that was in response to a post way upthread that happened thirty seconds ago. I can't keep up.

https://www.cimt.org.uk/resources/topical/semaphore/alphabet.gif

in the context of us all being accused of operating a dedicated board for the purpose of planning coordinated

i hope it's clear that this is not the case. i did see a few others upthread and elsewhere who seems to suggest that, but i thought it was clear that it's not what was going on. i don't want anyone to have an idea that there's this slack filled with people plotting and stuff.

You have a very interesting way of going about not giving people that idea, now that the discourse has settled firmly on "slack is a place for people to secretly gather for the purpose of planning harassment."

..-. .. .-. ... - .-- --- .-. .-.. -.. .--. .-. --- -... .-.. . -- ...

the end result of this will presumably just be a secreter Slack

I felt like, in the context of how the thread was going, there were a handful of posters that felt better after it was posted so that they didn't feel excluded, and many of them were welcomed by other people who were members of the slack.

― sarahell, Sunday, March 13, 2022 10:02 PM (forty-three seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

and i'm very happy about this and the fact that so far it seems to be going well.

ilx slack? more ilx tight(ly contested)

i think people were just mad about stuff that was said about them. i'm sure there were good things said there too, fun times, whatever.

You have a very interesting way of going about not giving people that idea, now that the discourse has settled firmly on "slack is a place for people to secretly gather for the purpose of planning harassment."

it sucks that the discourse has settled on that, if it has at all. every time i try to think about what the discourse is, i want to tear my eyeballs out. i have tried to make clear from the beginning that my problem was with gyac, and my disappointment was with everyone who believed her

xp CAD - while i wasn't the one that posted it, i did encourage it ... so i guess i do feel a bit defensive about that invite being posted ... however i don't recall it being something that was "hidden" ever, like there was a thread earlier on encouraging people to join it, and honestly, i am not entirely clear about the permissions and moderation of it so i guess i assumed that it wouldn't be opening up the floodgates to stalkers and dangerous people ... so if people felt like that was a real danger, then i apologize.

You said some horrid things to gyac on the Slack, including asking if she knows anyone who died from Covid and saying "are you triggered?"

She's asked you to leave her alone now. Please give it a rest.

xp

stated another way--you've used your issue with her to paint others with the same brush. you also started a game of telephone regarding what the slack is/is not that you are currently trying to walk back.

at least he is trying to walk it back ...

the conflict between Karl and gyac makes me uncomfortable because I like both of them, and the accusations and accounts are serious, and I want to be supportive but I also want to do the right thing? i am guessing that i'm not the only one who feels that way?

xp CAD - while i wasn't the one that posted it, i did encourage it ... so i guess i do feel a bit defensive about that invite being posted ... however i don't recall it being something that was "hidden" ever, like there was a thread earlier on encouraging people to join it, and honestly, i am not entirely clear about the permissions and moderation of it so i guess i assumed that it wouldn't be opening up the floodgates to stalkers and dangerous people ... so if people felt like that was a real danger, then i apologize.

― sarahell, Sunday, March 13, 2022 10:13 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

i mean i recognized that it was going to be posted at some point today, and i prepared accordingly. there is, to my knowledge, no gate to someone using the invite to join up right away and see everything. so my concern was more the timing of it being posted when everyone was assuming the worst of the entire slack. and while it's totally cool that you, for example, joined up, there are still some random new joiners in there under nonsense usernames and i have no idea what their intentions are so that sucks.

is there some mechanism to like message the perceived randos and be like, "hey, what's up?" and then if they exhibit troll-like behavior they are 86-ed? or is part of the issue that there isn't that mechanism so there's more vulnerability?

one of them was messaged and i don't believe anything came of it. i don't want to like peel back the curtain a ton but the slack is not really set up for moderation like ilx is

(which is obviously something that is going to have to change)

in general, it's nice to know who is joining. I consider it totally separate from ilx and different than ilx or a public, public forum, not needing moderation at all until nowish. Being someone who posts there mostly now as opposed to here and for reasons.

I've been following this contretemps the best I can, so correct me if I'm wrong: there is and has been another message board, run on Slack, composed of current (and former?) ILX members who ... feel more comfortable posting there than here? Is that the general gist, specifics of this squabble aside? That's kind of a bummer.

yerac for some reason i was so sure that you were gyac. i suggested that elsewhere and i can't delete it (and that would be horrible anyway) but sorry for making the connection. if someone brings that up, that's on me and please let me know so i can talk to the person. as much as i've been pissed off for other misunderstanding me, recently, i know that it's gone the other way too. sorry to get you mixed up in dumb stuff.;

felicity otm

KM, i honestly don't care. This entire shitshow is so not my deal. I don't know you at all. You started posting on the slack when i was taking a break. I came back and it's like escalation city and you don't seem to listen to anyone who was trying to talk you.

oh, so you are gyac

I've been following this contretemps the best I can, so correct me if I'm wrong: there is and has been another message board, run on Slack, composed of current (and former?) ILX members who ... feel more comfortable posting there than here? Is that the general gist, specifics of this squabble aside? That's kind of a bummer.

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, March 13, 2022 10:31 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

it was started in the early days of covid as another outlet for chatting when everyone was really isolated, and gradually became its own thing.

here's what "anyone who was trying to talk you" felt like to me

You said some horrid things to gyac on the Slack, including asking if she knows anyone who died from Covid and saying "are you triggered?"

She's asked you to leave her alone now. Please give it a rest.

that's what everyone is so hung up on. i don't know. if a friend's mom blew her head off with a shotgun, i would not be surprised by the friend making weird ass references to shotguns and mothers. it would be traumatic, and i would understand that. but that's where i made my mistake. some of you are my friends, some of you very much are not. i was very self-absorbed to think that everyone would already know about my dad and covid and how much it fucking makes me want to tear my fucking throat out, every single time i think about it. all the lies. all the fucking nonsense, from all quarters. so yeah, i make a fucking covid joke. of course it's not right, of course no one deserves it, and of course i fucking earned it. that is the unstated context, the one that's narcissistic of me to assume that anyone knows going in, cold. i fucking hate all of it, i hate how i act, i hate how angry i get at some people on the slack that are stone fucking COLD. but FUCK IT

Karl abort abort abort

stop spreading bullshit about me being misogynistic, you're completely wrong and off, you're just fucking wrong. and it stings because you're describing me as the motherfucker who just died, my dad

boo fucking hoo. that's not what i want, either. i have had more than my fill, i have been buoyed by my friends, i feel supported, all the stuff that makes everyone feel good.

i am ok and going to bed. i am expecting to wake up to the UK cutting my head off

I also remember being new on ilx and having very few posters defend me when posters attacked me or talked shit about me on sub-boards or threads i hadn't posted on, and that's a shitty feeling. I definitely am not of the "it's just a message borad" feeling That is distressing, and a no-win situation, but I've occasionally DMed someone, "you're good, just don't take the bait," otherwise it will go on and on, incl. when defenders take sides and pile on, as I was lon ago warned by a friend, also a mod, who had seen it all.
Or if somebody does want to take the bait, jump in the mosh pit, so be it, rock on, but don't look for a glorious victory.

stated another way--you've used your issue with her to paint others with the same brush. you also started a game of telephone regarding what the slack is/is not that you are currently trying to walk back.

― call all destroyer, Sunday, March 13, 2022 10:14 PM (thirty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i just want to make something clear here specific to me and my feelings about this--gyac has been extremely kind to me on the slack, i think she's demonstrated over the past two years in my interactions with her what kind of person she is, and so yes i stand with her when she says she feels like she's been attacked. KM, i don't agree with your characterization that the entire slack "sided with" her over you but at minimum you were asked to change your behavior and chose to exit and do this instead.

xpost And then there are people, sometimes me, who feel they have to answer, with no hope, just having to do it, yes.

yerac for some reason i was so sure that you were gyac. i suggested that elsewhere and i can't delete it (and that would be horrible anyway) but sorry for making the connection. if someone brings that up, that's on me and please let me know so i can talk to the person. as much as i've been pissed off for other misunderstanding me, recently, i know that it's gone the other way too. sorry to get you mixed up in dumb stuff.

Oh my god STOP. It just shows that you don't actually know anyone or anything about them. Please. Take a break and stop this.

What behavior was I asked to change?

xp

KM please stop take a good day or two please, said with love

As long as there wasn't backroom collusion on the Singles poll.

KM, my friend, I highly recommend just taking a breather. Not trying to be condescending and I like you a lot, you're a friend to me on here and I'd kick it with you in person, but at the moment you should close the computer, I think.

Ok.

Karl, you are a great guy and a great poster. I care about you. I genuinely care a lot. But, brutal honesty here, your trauma has led to you acting out. One of the forms that takes is complete lack of impulse control when it comes to posting. I generally don't think it's within the moderator's remit to stop people from posting in these cases, but in THIS instance, I am going to threadban you until I get up tomorrow. I think you need the break and to stop fanning the fires. Please don't start another thread on it, as I really am going to bed.

Other posters: please don't use this as an excuse to dump on KM. Feel free to dump on me for being a bad overstepping mod.

thank you emily

Emil.y otm

I felt an urge to state too that I’m not trying to deny or negate your self-interrogatives upthread, but it does feel as if your last few posts are getting a little shaded by your hurt feelings

if a friend's mom blew her head off with a shotgun, i would not be surprised by the friend making weird ass references to shotguns and mothers.

just ftr my dad did, in fact, blow his head off with a gun four years ago, and i’ve tried pretty hard not to use it as an excuse for poor behavior

sorry, that was perhaps uncalled for

Lack of an edit function on this board can be a disadvantage.

really sorry to hear that mookieproof

I'm so sorry.

FWIW, me and Neamderthal had an email exchange last night and I think we've not just settled the issue but feel a greater warmth towards each other than we did before. I'm not repeating what we've spoken about privately but he says he is going to take a break from here and hopefully will be back soon.

<3 to the both of youse

wait, wrong thread

STAY ON TOPIC

That's really, really good to hear boxedjoy.

Yeah great to hear. I like Neanderthal a lot.

Fantastic news. As much as I get shook by animosity and upheaval in generally chill social situations, it does my heart five times as good to see people going from 'fuck u' to amity + understanding over the space of a day.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lcDalD63nts/S7oX4HR1I_I/AAAAAAAABY4/Iyw7kdarSC8/s1600/2092356549_b5bbff8c3f_o.jpg

Hi I'm a lurker on this board. All of you are wonderful people. I'm sorry if I'm a jerk on ILM sometimes. I have a weird sense of humor and I only speak from the heart because all of you do and I'm just trying to follow the example. Not in the spirit of the thread, but I have beef with no one. Please call me out if need be.☮

Calling u out for turning this into another kumbaya circlejerk thread rather than the bijou of spite and rancour it's meant to be

is bijou of spite and rancour one of those bands whiney doesn't want on his acclaimed new experimental music thread?

nah they're p ambient, Whiney can have 'em

wait wait wait

Bijou of spite and rancour can be sung to the tune of "Bring on the Dancing Horses" ... and now we are back to wins and the sexyhorsepics

Tis a fine thought but tis no Cuttyhorse

no, it is more mannered and British

Calling u out for turning this into another kumbaya circlejerk thread rather than the bijou of spite and rancour it's meant to be

― imago, Tuesday, March 15, 2022 3:32 PM

Fair. I accept my threadban with considerable amounts of regret and discomposure. I have shamed all of us.

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/163825_487563837756_2017138_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=174925&_nc_ohc=3gQkJp81R74AX8lXfsU&tn=ygoLSGKb7OEfDuRy&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=00_AT9nCWah7TALYCZBhoG5tvfwHp8MkN8nZUY8ymROuUOWDg&oe=625535BB

Is that Questionable Content? I haven't thought of that comic in, like, forever.

https://i.imgur.com/X6dl2Id.jpg

otm

Is there someone standing right behind her yelling that?

It is QC, and I used to get ragged on all the time on here for being into it haha. I havent thought of it in years either.

I’m hungover, bumping this thread for imago and xyzzzz__ ps you absolutely did start this one lj, good luck

seriously please quarantine your many beefs in here

btw I’m going to sleep for a while, if someone can explain why multiple worthless and obstructive comments on political threads are more acceptable than pointing this out, I’d be grateful for some understanding

ttyl

for once i did start it yeah, although i'd argue that, as annoying or wilfully obtuse as Aimless can sometimes be, telling a nearly 70 y/o person (who happens to have been a full-time carer, which you definitely know) 'i'd hate to be your carer' is just laughably evil idk, didn't really think i was stepping too far out of line & i do not intend to deescalate

Do you have an Amoeba where your brain should be?

extremely facebook capitalisation from yerman there

it has been pointed out to me that xyzzzz's line to Aimless was a direct callback to some beef they had 3 days ago

teach me to meddle in the beeves of others

regret nothing tho

I just want to let the person who let LJ know what I was doing that I really enjoyed seeing this dumbo wallow in his own ignorance and that you doing anything about it is never going to help him because he's beyond that.

regret nothing tho

― imago

i'm not asking you to _regret_, i mean guilt, shame, these are not useful ideas most of the time, but seriously, lj. what did you accomplish here? what are _either_ of you accomplishing? does throwing insults at each other make either of you happy, give you a sense of satisfaction?

i mean i did come from that background, i was a troll, i was a shitposter, if somebody was being an asshole it was my _responsibility_ to subject them to merciless ridicule, and i got _good_ at it, good at using words to hurt other people who had offended me.

but doing that didn't make me feel better. even when other people... like, i still do find myself in situations of conflict sometimes, as much as i hate it. yesterday morning i woke up and somebody was being an absolute jerk to my friends on a discord i'm on, was verbally bullying them, and i had to be pretty direct and hostile to them to get them to back off. and doing that, they were happy i did that, and i'm glad i helped other people by doing that, but i hurt _myself_.

after i was done with that, it was first thing in the morning, i was trembling, adrenaline was coursing through my body, i tried to walk it off as best i could but my foot doesn't let me do that like i used to. i did a lot of stress eating. i had a bad day yesterday. i said a lot of things which while they were true it... it wasn't really good for me to focus on that, when there were other things i could be, should be focusing on.

like you, i don't _regret_ it, per se. but i'm not _proud_ of that. not proud of failing to take care of myself. i need to take care of myself, and calling out other people, even when they _need_ to be called out, even when they are hurting people I care about, is not "taking care of myself".

maybe that's how you take care of yourself. i don't know. maybe shit-talking each other really makes both of you feel good and is a totally healthy dynamic and doesn't make the both of you unnecessarily miserable. i mean it would be the first time i saw that dynamic in action, but i'm not gonna rule it out. you're making the rest of us fucking miserable, though. have some consideration. have some respect.

the two of you insulting each other makes the board a more hostile and a less pleasant place to be. people i like, people i value, leave when it becomes all about these pointless personal beefs. the world is a hard place right now. it's a _traumatic_ place right now. i'm not here to doomscroll. i'm not here to distract myself with people's petty personal conflicts. take responsibility for yourself. fix your shit. i'm fucking tired of this crap.

I just want to let the person who let LJ know what I was doing that I really enjoyed seeing this dumbo wallow in his own ignorance and that you doing anything about it is never going to help him because he's beyond that.

― xyzzzz__, Friday, 1 July 2022 14:57 (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

die soon cunt

not posting to ILE again

Famous last words.

Kate, I think a possibly useful function of this thread is to quarantine it from the rest of the board so you ideally have to opt in to read it, rather than have stuff break out in unrelated threads.

Kate, I think a possibly useful function of this thread is to quarantine it from the rest of the board so you ideally have to opt in to read it, rather than have stuff break out in unrelated threads.

― Osama bin Chinese (gyac)

oh yeah, deffo, but (1) first off, for imago to make the post he did three minutes after my post is a fucking HILARIOUS exemplar of Internet Discourse in action, like, legit I'm screencapping that one

(2) over the past couple of years i've done a lot of work around boundaries and lj and xyzzzz___ have really shitty personal boundaries and are hurting the rest of us due to their inability to take personal responsibility for their emotions. and like usually happens with people who can't control their personal boundaries, the rest of us have sort of learned to work around them, to accommodate their inability to behave respectfully and responsibly to the rest of us. and frankly, the way most former board posters have dealt with posters' inability to be responsible about their emotional boundaries is by leaving. you know, the past is the past, but i think all of us now have an opportunity to change the, like, the toxic pattern of behavior that used to be normative for this board.

and because changing my own personal toxic behavior has been a personal struggle for me, i kinda get passionate talking about my own experiences, even if it's not gonna help anybody else. it does help me to do these wall-o-text things. lily alexandre had this great video yesterday about why queer discourse is so toxic and i liked it a lot, i think it's helpful for not _specifically_ queer people but people in general to learn how to negotiate conflicts without them devolving into personal beefs. i've tried to put that in practice since returning here, that's a big part of the reason _why_ i'm here now, to practice healthy ways of handling conflict.

people are being complete assholes to youn on the politics thread as well. for absolutely no reason.

I've been flagging posts for 24 hours Same names over and over.

serious question - maybe we need a different mechanism for bans? like, right now, it's at the discretion of the mods, right? so bombarding the mods with shitty posts by the same two people... any mods reading this? is this helpful? y'all got any preferences on how to handle situations like the lj/xyzzzz___ situation?

can we force them to killfile each-other somehow? Or if just one of them volunteers to do it that would work too.

I don't think my so-called with LJ is a big deal. It only really impacts the UK Pol thread for the most part. Certainly doesn't warrant an essay from Kate.

lol, no, it did. very much.

you both are like an unfunny Statler and Waldorf

"and lj and xyzzzz___ have really shitty personal boundaries and are hurting the rest of us due to their inability to take personal responsibility for their emotions."

Laughable, really. The guy posts sewer on the ukpol thread and I'm meant not to call it out?

can only speak for myself (and am hardly a big-name poster) but there are several threads I don't bother with any more due to this particular beef, suspect I'm not the only one.

I guess it has spilled over bcz the guy doesn't like being called out. Also loves interfering on exchanges between me and other posters, like today.

"and lj and xyzzzz___ have really shitty personal boundaries and are hurting the rest of us due to their inability to take personal responsibility for their emotions."

Laughable, really. The guy posts sewer on the ukpol thread and I'm meant not to call it out?

People said they are sorta bothered by this, but you haven't stopped posting on ukpol nor have two other posters I'm thinking of.

And like, LJ hasn't posted that much lately?

If we all stopped would you take the hint?

lol, no, it did. very much.

― Doop Snogg (Neanderthal)

i mean it's clinical lack of insight, innit? both of them are totally incapable of recognizing the way literally everybody else on the board* views them and their sad little "beef".

* as far as I can tell, if there's anybody here who genuinely thinks the ly/xyzzzz___ beef consists of delightful and engaging repartee that enlivens the board please, i welcome your perspective

It's not enough of a deal you think it is.

Take today. I pretty much defused LJ's post with the nut milk tweet. Everyone rightfully ignored LJ after that and talked about nut milk utopias.

Everybody had moved on by the time you revived this thread to talk about something that had pretty much died xp

Well you can’t say you weren’t told.

Do you all know how many beefs there are here everyday?

Numerous people are being very clear about how this makes them feel. Why not try acknowledging this and moving on?

You know what? I'd completely forgotten about that whole Slack business! I started reading thinking, "What's this thread all about and why is it so long?"

This thread was built on one, unresolved, beef.

The beef that the butchers rejected shall be the cornerstone

And yet the people involved are not revisiting it every single day all over ILX

xp

This is not happening everyday, or all over ilx.

serious question - maybe we need a different mechanism for bans? like, right now, it's at the discretion of the mods, right? so bombarding the mods with shitty posts by the same two people... any mods reading this? is this helpful? y'all got any preferences on how to handle situations like the lj/xyzzzz___ situation?

― Kate (rushomancy)

We just go by number of FPs. Each user can only FP another user once every six months (although this should get reset after a ban, I think). I made the mistake of overstepping with "discretionary" powers before, so I don't like to do that much, though I will if it's a clear-cut situation. There also aren't many mods now so there's not often anyone else to discuss courses of action with.

And imago & xyzzzz, it does happen ALL THE TIME and it definitely pisses people off/makes them feel like this board is less worthy of their time. I have nothing against either of you personally, but it is super shitty of you to do this. Posts like "die soon cunt" really should be bannable offences but this is pretty much your baseline level of discourse and makes it so that it almost doesn't register anymore. And you're both as bad as each other, so it kind of feels like it would be shit of me to ban one of you and not the other one. I mean, do you guys actually enjoy this? What would YOU suggest to stem the tide of aggression here?

I mean, do you guys actually enjoy this?

Evidence suggests... yes, but each in their own way.

Hey, how about that nut beef?

think we need to implement this for these two tbh

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/v3m2p9/heaven_banning_the_hypothetical_practice_of/

membershipwalled fyi

it suggests isolating problem users from the community and surrounding them by a series of echo chamber bots who will respond positively to their particular prejudices, while not telling them the "people" they are interacting with are bots

basically synthetic socks, rayon or whatever - one user makes a playground taunt against the other and an army of bots shows up to act like the taunt is the cleverest bon mot ever conceived. but the user themselves is the only person who sees those responses, nobody else sees the user's post or the army of bots. basically every incapable of existing in the same reality as the rest of the community gets their own private Gorilla Channel quarantine.

It seems a bit less complicated for them to explain what they’re getting out of it.

Also this idea wouldn’t work especially on uk ilx when several of us meet up irl fairly often.

https://www.retrozap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/SFS063-Rollerball-05.jpg

I mean, do you guys actually enjoy this? What would YOU suggest to stem the tide of aggression here?

― emil.y, Friday, 1 July 2022 bookmarkflaglink

No, of course I don't but I am not doing anymore than some poster not seeing a post he doesn't like by another and calling it out! I've done this (as have others) to Aimless, VHS, Fred B, etc. over the years.

Obviously it has happened a lot with LJ over the years. I'm not the only one who doesn't like his posting, though I am one of the few enraged enough by it over the years to call it out, repeatedly!

Feel there is some aggregation here through years long beef. I have minimised my interactions quite a bit over the last yr, partly because he has posted a bit less on threads I'm on.

I mean, the last couple of times LJ has actually had a go on behalf of what he thought I had done to another poster. Kate told him off for 'white knighting' on KM's 'going away' thread (over our only interaction I believe) and then today it was over a perceived wrong on Aimless. Both situations were misreads. Sorry for calling him a bit dim over that!

I accept I've broken LJ, a bit, hence not engaging when he totally blows his top (he has told me to die and kill myself a lot) (which is also confirmation of what he's actually like), and I can see the appeals to the rest of the board to try and get me permanently banned bcz of 'poison', so that's me reaping what I'm sowing.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/ylyUQm2pCWo5yLfFEQ/giphy.gif

But srsly would like to see neither of you banned as you are integral here IMO

osama bin chinese?

I recall a FAP where they were actually sitting talking to each other - no idea how the conversation went mind you.

I recall a FAP where they were actually sitting talking to each other - no idea how the conversation went mind you.

OK, my hand is forced.

A wise person once said this to me:

Louis sounds like a fucking grade A cuntbubble on this thread. I never understood the hate before, but seriously, please die, vain misogynist try-hard scum.

― emil.y, Sunday, 30 September 2007 16:35 (fourteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

...and you know what, they were completely right, and I realised, and I changed. It took me a while, but I did.

Now, from my perspective, this now is a situation where war was declared on me many years ago and I started receiving absurd assassinations of character from one poster, over and over and over again. Nobody else did it! Just one person. At first I was baffled, then I started to defend myself, and, yes, lash out, because I have poor control sometimes. And until recently, when I leapt in with arguable degrees of justifiability on behalf of two others, the pattern was always, always him attacking me and me lashing out in retaliation. The reason I've leapt in recently is, yes, perhaps I'm a bit broken and worn down by a this. Living in my head rent-free as the kids like to say, and yes, I'm sad to see this webforum tyrannically patrolled by a wannabe keyboard Robespierre. But ultimately this boils down to the fact I'm rarely able to go a week without being described as completely worthless by one specific individual to almost no pushback whatsoever.

Anyway, as for 'which is also confirmation of what he's like', fuck you. Absolutely anyone and everyone who knows me in person knows I'm not like that. It's JUST YOU. Because you've taken it upon yourself to try to 'destroy' me, as you 'destroyed' Fred or whatever. I know for a fact you've described me as 'the worst poster on ILX since Fred' on Slack, and that you've made it your mission to bully me off here. So that's why I lash out - it's you or me. One of us has to go. I know you won't change like I did; you cannot.

That's why I am not going to post to ILE any more; I'm going to be the one who changes. But if you fucking dare approach me on ILM I'm going to say some things which make today's freakouts seem like a warm and friendly greeting. Adios.

"And until recently, when I leapt in with arguable degrees of justifiability on behalf of two others, the pattern was always, always him attacking me and me lashing out in retaliation."

No justification, you misread the situation and yeah ofc I was going to pushback, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwm3eW9YyFw

Btw LJ I and others have certainly addressed xyzzzz’s behaviour towards you both irl and online, you may not have seen it but it did happen

But if you fucking dare approach me on ILM I'm going to say some things which make today's freakouts seem like a warm and friendly greeting. Adios.

― imago, Friday, 1 July 2022 bookmarkflaglink

Change you can believe in #uspol

(final addendum, honest: Bananaman Begins, adam, PBKR, anyone else I've gotten gruff with lately - apologies. I overreacted to provocation - as I said, I have poor control sometimes. I do not wish you ill or anything at all. Just so you don't 'this you?' me lol. Okay ta-ra)

I enjoy just about everyone, tbh

Stirring some Negronis here for everyone.

I mean xyzzz did say some of the nastiest things I’ve ever read about myself on the Slack, but at this point, I just don’t mention my love for the greatest living British poet any longer since that seemed to be a real stick in his craw.

that is, i get angry at some of you sometimes, and disagree with some of you sometimes, but i do tend to like most of you. unless you defend cops or Zionism.

Stirring some Negronis here for everyone.

You are a true gentleman.

Can you make me a Paloma instead, Alfred?

i don't think there's any way to say this that isn't annoying, but this beef is kind of fun for me. i mean i hope no one is really getting their feelings hurt but idk it seems very "catfight scene" in dynasty.

I just don’t mention my love for the greatest living British poet

Roger McGough? Cross post with 'people I only just realised were still alive'.

nobody get's killed, if you don't like it then scroll past it. It's neither FP worthy nor is it any big deal.

Xyzzzz__ actually made the harshest comment I’ve ever seen to the initial subject of this thread but he wasn’t even named*. Just so you’re not all settling in this thread with jokes about real stuff that hurt real people.


*this is not a dig at xyzzzz__ who I am friends with but absolutely I am pretty tired about recalling the shit above which was a huge tantrum that caused me a lot of stress at a very bad time. 🫠

I personally hate it and find, like gyac, that it totally drains my energy when I engage in such fights or attempt to deescalate them. I know i can sometimes be a huge dickhead on here, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t make me feel terrible.

It’s probably best to pick your battles, although I would never have chosen myself as a basis for comparison there!

_I just don’t mention my love for the greatest living British poet_

Roger McGough? Cross post with 'people I only just realised were still alive'.

It’s probably best to pick your battles, although I would never have chosen myself as a basis for comparison there!

i don't think there's any way to say this that isn't annoying, but this beef is kind of fun for me. i mean i hope no one is really getting their feelings hurt but idk it seems very "catfight scene" in dynasty.

...

nobody get's killed, if you don't like it then scroll past it. It's neither FP worthy nor is it any big deal.

They're both gaping assholes, but they're almost always just being gaping assholes to each other, so who cares? Slam the coffin lid on 'em if either one ever takes that tone (and gets that single-minded and relentless about it) with anybody else, though.

I like basically everybody here, FTR. Even when I'm insulting you, I like you. (The people I really dislike, I ignore.) And my memory for conflict lasts about 45 seconds, so if I should accidentally (or even deliberately!) hurt someone's feelings, whatever I say can be pretty easily dismissed.

Happy America-Rules-Fuck-You Weekend, everybody!

_It’s probably best to pick your battles, although I would never have chosen myself as a basis for comparison there!_


i was most referring to your posts above about how these sorts of things have physiological effects on you, fwiw, because i find the same thing happens to me— heart rate goes up, i become irritable and anxious and sad, etc

"That's why I am not going to post to ILE any more; I'm going to be the one who changes. But if you fucking dare approach me on ILM I'm going to say some things which make today's freakouts seem like a warm and friendly greeting. Adios.

― imago"

you're this close. this close. lj, if you're committed to not posting to ILE anymore, that's fantastic! however - and this is not a slam or an insult, this is a genuine suggestion - when you repeatedly post on an ILE thread about how you are going to quit posting on ILE, it's hard for me to not have a certain amount of skepticism. but you're most of the way there! saying "ok, i'm going to walk away now", that's something that can very easily be followed up by actually walking away. that's a good thing! that shows insight and a commitment to self-care.

i walked away from this board for 18 months and you know, people might have liked Old Kate better but i don't. i very much enjoy being the tiresome old lady who gives interminable homespun homilies at the drop of a hat, ilx's very own Mary Worth.

lj, i hope you take the time you need to care for yourself, and i hope that when you come back, you're every bit as much a meddlesome old biddy as i am.

"Change you can believe in #uspol

― xyzzzz__"

look, i don't expect you to receive this in the spirit in which it's offered, but your saying this is an example of a pattern of speech you've been engaged in. you know what i'm gonna do here? i'm gonna _tone police_ you on this post. given what i just said to LJ, clearly we agree to a certain extent, but the way you're phrasing it is sarcastic, hostile, and accusatory. if this was twitter, you know, i can understand that. you're _driving engagement_ here, right? your statement is a lot punchier than my statement. it's more likely to get likes, upvotes, to _perpetuate the dialogue_.

is this what you want? or do you want lj to shut up and stop calling you a cunt?

tbh the weekend i started this thread was maybe the worst weekend i've had this year, in terms of gut squirming miserableness and the overdose of bad vibes

i've no interest in relitigating any of it - there are some fundamental differences of perspective up there that are never gonna meet, and imo that's ok, or at least it's wasted effort to try and resolve them

i read back the post where i really blew up and i feel fucking bad about it - not perhaps for what i thought but it was a lousy unnecessary way of expressing it

there's some serious irony in the fact that from what i know about most of you you're as self-doubting and introspective as i am, and yet it's near impossible to talk about other people's actions without coming across like you think you're without flaws.

don't know where i was going with this. beef: sometimes contains very funny one-liners, often involves real physical discomfort and sadness. but you don't have to like everybody in the world, and maybe it would be kind of (?) bad if you did

If you are your authentic self, not everyone is going to like you.

ps - many thanks to the people on this thread who spoke up to say that they enjoy the byplay between lj and xyzzzz! i retract my statement that nobody on the board enjoys it. my apologies!

there's some serious irony in the fact that from what i know about most of you you're as self-doubting and introspective as i am, and yet it's near impossible to talk about other people's actions without coming across like you think you're without flaws.

don't know where i was going with this. beef: sometimes contains very funny one-liners, often involves real physical discomfort and sadness. but you don't have to like everybody in the world, and maybe it would be kind of (?) bad if you did

― bury my heart in wounded kieth (Noodle Vague)

i feel that so hard. if it helps, i was off-board for the initial blowup here (i may or may not go back and read it in horror later, pretty tired right now and need to get a CBC), but i can't see myself _blaming_ you for the post where you really blew up - i'm really aware that we don't always have complete self-control. by which i mean, you know, i'm bipolar, i have suffered from delusions and i've said and done some pretty scary shit in my life. i'm responsible for the results of my words and actions, whether or not i freely chose them, but i've learned to not blame myself for them. i'm not ashamed of who i am or who i was, and i don't think anybody here has cause to be ashamed of themselves either.

A wise person once said this to me: [mod snip]

lol imago, I knew that post would come back to haunt me! Not proud of the telling you to die part, but eh, I think the rest was justified at the time. You definitely did change, though, and that post is now old enough to be bunking off school to smoke behind the bike sheds.

I am not doing anymore than some poster not seeing a post he doesn't like by another and calling it out
-xyzzz_

But... do you have to call it out every time you see something you dislike? Can you not just ignore someone having a bad take? If you can't ignore it, could you not address the substance of the bad take rather than attacking the person behind it? I don't know if you've noticed, but the attack approach isn't that effective at getting people to change their minds, nor is it effective at getting them to shut up and go away.

But srsly would like to see neither of you banned as you are integral here IMO
― Osama bin Chinese (gyac)

This is p much how I feel, but with the way these fights spiral onto a whole bunch of threads I'm not surprised when people think incoherent raging is all they bring to the table.

Also I can't believe tabes got sonned in a JH Prynne beef

i was most referring to your posts above about how these sorts of things have physiological effects on you, fwiw, because i find the same thing happens to me— heart rate goes up, i become irritable and anxious and sad, etc
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Friday, July 1, 2022 4:03 PM bookmarkflaglink

yeah, even if it's not my beef or me it affects me in a similar way (when it is my beef, it's even worse - I was very upset during the thing that caused me to take a brief sabbatical, and took a month+ off to feel up to posting again. and even then it's more sporadic now.)

"i'm gonna _tone police_ you on this post."

Not sure how I'll recover from this.

I disagree with a lot of people here on a variety of topics, but who has the time or energy for all the typing it would take to argue about something. I could make an excellent point or some sick burn and by the time I’m able to come back to the thread there have been 38489324 replies putting me in my place. It’s exhausting!

"But... do you have to call it out every time you see something you dislike? Can you not just ignore someone having a bad take?"

I ignore loads of stuff! I'm hardly the only person who beefs on the board xp

I have no part in this beef but I feel it's important that no one thinks I actually like Roger McGough. Thks. Prynne rules.

I mean xyzzz did say some of the nastiest things I’ve ever read about myself on the Slack, but at this point, I just don’t mention my love for the greatest living British poet any longer since that seemed to be a real stick in his craw.

― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Friday, 1 July 2022 bookmarkflaglink

I can't remember exactly. It certainly wasn't the fact you love Prynne that was bothering me and so what anyway I wasn't having a go at you on the boards.

I should really have made this post months ago, and I would have at the time, but my husband was pretty sick with covid, and then I got covid. As I type I in fact have a pounding headache and I'm hoping it's not covid again and is just tiredness/heat. Anyway I'm going to regret this I'm sure, but I'm tired of pretending this didn't happen.

for the last several weeks i've been routinely described as a horrendous misogynist attacker of women, primarily by gyac but now spreading to like 6-8 different people today, that i saw?

firstly, and to some of you most importantly: this never happened.

the first beef I had with KM on the slack was where he mentions above, about going off on a tear that ended in "I hope everyone gets covid and dies" to which I responded "it's ok to log off". That's it. He was angry about this response and alluded to it on ilx at several points, and between then and after would drop hints about the slack to the point where it was causing me a lot of anxiety. I don't know KM at all. I was thinking, why is this person I barely know still thinking about this?!

the other argument we had was the one that resulted in March, and when it spilled onto ilx, I said directly to him on here that he was "fixated on a female poster", which I think his repeated mentionimgs of me - and only me - in his posts above confirm. I said his behaviour was unnerving, which it was and is. And (on slack) I told him that he had attacked two female posters - me and another person I will not mention because the whole situation caused her a lot of distress. That was it. I never called him a misogynist. I said these various things in different times and spaces and at best it's a semantic distinction, but if I had meant to call him a misogynist I would have done so. I said the first two things precisely because I wanted to make him understand how I felt, that it was upsetting me.

I wish I hadn't said anything at all.

I want to thank horseshoe belatedly because you actually asked questions about this.

the others who believed gyac, for some reason

gyac's repeatedly trying to make me out as a serial woman abuser

then people just adopting her side of the story,

i deleted it within a minute

but it wasn't fucking misogynistic. and that characterization of it was _immediate_

Don't worry about what gyac thinks of you. Remember the time she told Alfred to "get fucked"? Says it all, imo.

― peace, man, Monday, 14 March 2022 00:31 (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

fyi I did not intend any homophobic connotation on this, this is a very commonly said thing in Ireland (where I'm from). I would say in slight mitigation this was in some covid thread where Alfred was (iirc unintentionally) mocking me for my upset about something that related to my mental health and I considered it an abhorrent thing to do. Sorry Alfred, if I could go back in time I would have said something different ( and I also super belatedly want to acknowledge your apology to me, which was kind).

that's really all I want to say. I thought I would stop posting but I didn't want to be driven off by this, but other great people have since left and that devastates me honestly. I can be blunt, rude, aggressive, all that - but I'm not a fucking liar and I never have been. tl;dr

https://i.imgur.com/E1jz7PS.gif

And sorry to relitigate this, but it's been bothering me for months now having all this on here. It has been distressing reading people I've never interacted with so quickly agreeing with this view of me, because it came from a person with a lot of goodwill on here. If you take any lesson from this, take that one. I know I am not a likeable person and I can be argumentative and harsh as fuck, I am not anything other than I am, but thst doesn't mean I deserve to be lied about. But then I guess I would say that, wouldn't I.

xyzzzz__ - It's hard to know what to say that will reach you (and others), and in many ways I sense it's not worth my getting involved at all being that this is a microcosm of reality in which it's not always easy (understatement) to tell how much is meant or felt by anyone.

It's difficult to compose something without letting emotions distort meaning into something unpalatable enough to be dismissed, ridiculed or retaliated against. I'm feeling this keenly now, even though it's not my character under attack, nor is this something I've been experiencing relentlessly over several years in a place that is psychically as much 'home' as anywhere else. Please don't consider this an attempted vindication of death threats, pettiness or ad hominem attacks, but I think it is important to remember that self-preservative retaliative aggression can reach a fever pitch when something so fundamental as the core self is under attack, which for imago it has been for a long time. It becomes very difficult to think into a space where no space is being offered to think into and everything is immediately shut down.

When your own behaviour has been visibly called into question over the years you are quick to publicly assert yourself as standing up for what you and others believe in - pushing back, calling him out - but realistically you have routinely picked away at him at times of relative peace, for little discernible reason at all. It's very difficult to get a read on this feeling of your being 'enraged' - maybe it's just the way you type, but I wonder if it would be worthwhile (in the earnest interest of maintaining a more pleasant atmosphere on the board) to foreground your own feelings more and why the words of others have provoked you to respond in such a way. For imago, I think his emotions are very apparent and readable to all, and he often elaborates on these as much as he can, for better or worse. If you care enough to post at all in response to something he's said, then why not address the feelings it corresponds to directly? If you were having a serious discussion or disagreement with someone irl I find it hard to believe you would respond as consistently personally as you have done here.

As someone reasonably qualified to confirm what imago is like, having previously lived with him for six years, I can say with confidence that despite his faults, this is someone who is overwhelmingly kind, generous and forgiving. I don't really post much to ILX anymore (except to stop by all the wonderfully-run polls), but I want to be a loud voice in his corner when absolutely necessary, even if he is the one doing the provocation. I feel sad for all the times I've felt unable to say anything...this is someone who really helped to turn my life around and sometimes it is maddening and confusing to see him dragged down time and again over matters of opinion, and it's important that this person is supported and reminded that he is great.

That people leave because of this bullshit is the most unfortunate aspect.

otm

I'm one of the admins on a Discord server that imago's a regular on. He's been obnoxious at times there, too, and he's gotten into vigorous disagreements with other members, including me. (No, not fights. It's a civilized place, and I aim to help keep it that way.) The difference is that he's not personally attacked every time he raises his head.

Tangent - it's not that deep, LJ has inane annoying opinions that grinds my gears, it needed to be shut time and again because it was dragging the (important, stuff I wanted to think about) conversations I was involved into places I didn't like. It wasn't clever, in fact not one brain cell was utilised, he was dicking about and I thought I'd push it back. What about my space?

I'd reflect as to why you think it's a bit of provocation and not a load of bollocks, and why you think that's worth defending.

"Please don't consider this an attempted vindication of death threats, pettiness or ad hominem attacks, but I think it is important to remember that self-preservative retaliative aggression can reach a fever pitch when something so fundamental as the core self is under attack, which for imago it has been for a long time."

I'm not buying it. Reflect on what you are defending here. It was only me doing it. Everybody else thinks he's ok or a great guy, he couldn't handle one person saying otherwise.

(I mean not everyone, I've had the odd FAP where people were defending him like, "can't you leave him alone, I agree he's full of shit but can't you stop it". So there was the harmless defence too. Needless to say I didn't agree and here we are.)

So this is nothing more than "I can't sleep! Someone's *wrong* on the Internet!"? I think the best thing here for both of you to do is what I did with Branwell when they were here: When one of you goes on a thread, the other one needs to leave the thread for a while.

"The difference is that he's not personally attacked every time he raises his head."

not really the case on here either, it's just on the politics threads (well the UK one in particular) where he often opens with some kind of quite exhausting dubious disclaimer that he isn't like how people say he is. Followed by a load of passive aggressive butthurt attacks on the left, because they don't consider posh people comrades.

I ignore loads of stuff! I'm hardly the only person who beefs on the board xp

― xyzzzz__

will you stop it with the tu quoque, it's literally a logical fallacy. i hate to bring this up because i'm really not into arguing FROM LOGIC but you keep saying this as a defense over and over again and nobody is asking you for a defense, people are asking you to quit being a dick and all you can say is "well other people are doing it too". i don't _care_ if all your friends are doing it.

fyi I did not intend any homophobic connotation on this, this is a very commonly said thing in Ireland (where I'm from). I would say in slight mitigation this was in some covid thread where Alfred was (iirc unintentionally) mocking me for my upset about something that related to my mental health and I considered it an abhorrent thing to do. Sorry Alfred, if I could go back in time I would have said something different ( and I also super belatedly want to acknowledge your apology to me, which was kind).

No apologies required. We're good!

I have many many times called imago out irl for regrettable things he may have said or done, so it’s in no way a defence of the more disagreeable parts that I feel like saying anything. What I am defending is his character, which should not be so inextricable from his politics (as predominantly left and well-meaning as they are) as to make you give leave of all decency every time you choose to engage with him.

This dismissiveness about ‘dicking about’ and ‘not one brain cell’ coupled with implications that other people talk about him being full of shit is the kind of thing that’s been a constant. If you don’t buy that one person’s (or poster’s) actions can accumulate, especially when repeatedly targeting obvious insecurities, then I don’t know what to say.

I don’t really think that imago saying things that you disagree with constitutes a breech of your space in the same way that your retaliation does for him, and if it doesn’t go that deep (for which I’m glad) then like, just leave it alone. Clearly this isn’t the first or the hundredth time you’re hearing this, but then I wonder why you haven’t left it? You’re not offering a vigilante moral arbiter service against some outlier; other people are more than capable of voicing their dissent, and do so in more reasonable ways. I get that he winds you up but just consider if there might be a better way to engage (or not) with it.

Ilx beef thread? Try THIS: Taking Sides: Nas vs. Jay-z

Yes, what a pity people might want to discuss things that happened to them rather than joking about it.

Not *just* joking--that thread started out talking smack, but took some turns.

Might or might not be worth reading all that, but anyway I didn't mean it as making fun of this thread, sorry for the interjection.

That people leave because of this bullshit is the most unfortunate aspect.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux)

it is. i have been wanting to apologize for a lot of things from late last year and early this year. people leaving because of things that i have done is definitely a big one.

gyac, i let you down in a number of ways and i'm sorry. in any way that i try to think about it, in the end i was being self-centered. I know what you and others mean about the physical effect, the physiological effect. i'm really sorry for that. that crosses a line into a real life effect, and if i'm ever doing that via the internet i always want the other person to be laughing or at least feeling good, not feeling awful. i'm really sorry.

i'm sorry about the ways that i've let down others, too. some of my good friends were frank with me about the effect that drinking was having on my life, and i didn't take them seriously, not in time. I have a better understanding of what drinking does, now, and don't really want to know more of it. i know that it destroys trust, and i'm very sorry for that.

I'm not the only one who doesn't like his posting, though I am one of the few enraged enough by it over the years to call it out, repeatedly!

Honestly, xyzzz, I dislike your posting way more than LJ's -- you go in for gratuitous insults way too often -- like when you comment that you "call it out" it sounds like you believe your assholery is some righteous radical act. Like the posts of a left-leaning (but not left enough) middle class dude who went to Cambridge on scholarship must be attacked with the same ferocity as actual fascism. Like dude, this is ILX, if you want to be a comrade go torch cop cars or advocate for actually oppressed people IRL. Start a book club. Stop being a dick to LJ outside of Britpol (which I don't read so I can't tell whether even that is appropriate).

it does feel a bit like a cat waiting to pounce. sarahell otm

makes the Whiney/deej battles of yore look positively tame (although only one side was ever actually angry during those).

sorry that sounded harsh. I like both Whiney and D-40

Anyone can call any behavior disckish, but it is offensive and presumptious to imply a person is not an "actually oppressed" person if you do not know them. There is plenty of invisible, unseen oppression both "IRL" and online. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it is not there.

Certain people live with the discomfort of oppression on a daily basis. If you do not know what that is like, then hooray for you.

lol thanks for the trip down memory lane, Neando -- I had almost forgotten the stupid whiney/deej battles

xp - sorry, in my mind the emphasis was "IRL" not "actually"

Online is IRL. We have all known this for many years now.

Because I do a fair amount of work trying to alleviate the discomfort of oppression IRL, and I compare what I see IRL with the lives of ILXors ... and there is a lot more privilege here than where I live and work. But then, I don't think we actually know each other, felicity, so you may be being presumptuous about where I'm coming from?

I definitely see xyzzz on other online music groups interacting quite nicely with musicians he is a fan of whose politics are ... those which he would not be a fan of.

selective enragement

Online is IRL. We have all known this for many years now.

― felicity, Friday, July 1, 2022 8:17 PM (six minutes ago)

and this is totally true ... and there has been a lot of dismissiveness related to that which has inordinately hurt marginalized people, and in the context of my annoyed post at xyzzz, yeah, that is totally fair (and good) for you to point out. Though at the same time, online arguments and political performativity has often taken the place of more meaningful actions that serve the values and causes and movements that are ostensibly being championed by this online behavior. I don't know xyzzz, personally, and perhaps he does both. I think I have just witnessed so much male posturing online that, my instinct is that it's all talk. And perhaps that is wrong.

sarahell i get where you're coming from - xyzzzz to me comes off as someone who has very elaborate justifications for why it's about the Principle of the Thing and i'm sorry i've seen enough of this shit in my lifetime that i'm skeptical of the whole thing. if lj's takes are genuinely shitty (i stay away from politics threads in general), what larger purpose is served by sarcastically pointing at him on occasion? that xyzzzz, per his own account, doesn't do it _consistently_ is almost worse, almost like delivering electric shocks apparently at random. i've seen it over and over again.

just speaking personally, the more hurt i am by... the words of someone i consider myself in fundamental solidarity with, the more i go out of my way to be kind to them. those are the two options on the table for me - be kind and compassionate, or walk the fuck away.

why tell somebody they suck? nobody likes being told they suck, even if they do, and tend not to respond well to it. no principle i believe in is served by being harshly critical of someone for no other reason than "the principle of the thing". it seems very arrogant and presumptuous to me. fuck, if lj wants xyzzz's opinion, he can fucking ask for it, can't he?

Tangent: "It's not that deep", in the sense that I saw a kinda tortured excuse from your post on imago's behalf, like there is no need for you to be a character witness etc. Many people like him. I'm trying to say something like yeah I don't like his inane posting. That's in one sense.

Unfortunately in ukpol it's functioned as disruptive, it takes space and it's not well meaning. It needs to be serious, given what has been happening. You say he's 'predominately' left, which is telling, if it's coming from someone who knows him. To me, who doesn't, it absolutely isn't. And I'm not here to nurse his insecurities lol.

I haven't left it because it kept being posted. My dissent, my way. That's the way.

But lately I have minimised it somewhat. Depends on the 'provocation'.

I definitely see xyzzz on other online music groups interacting quite nicely with musicians he is a fan of whose politics are ... those which he would not be a fan of.

― sarahell, Saturday, 2 July 2022 bookmarkflaglink

I only post on ilx, and twitter, and Slack. There is only one musician I know I have very little engagement with on twitter who has awful lib opinions that come out in his other views. What are you talking about?

---
Honestly, xyzzz, I dislike your posting way more than LJ's -- you go in for gratuitous insults way too often -- like when you comment that you "call it out" it sounds like you believe your assholery is some righteous radical act. Like the posts of a left-leaning (but not left enough) middle class dude who went to Cambridge on scholarship must be attacked with the same ferocity as actual fascism. Like dude, this is ILX, if you want to be a comrade go torch cop cars or advocate for actually oppressed people IRL. Start a book club. Stop being a dick to LJ outside of Britpol (which I don't read so I can't tell whether even that is appropriate).

― sarahell, Saturday, 2 July 2022 bookmarkflaglink

Honestly this is absolutely clueless. The guy has terrible politics. I actually don't care where he comes from, but in his opinions and where he's going...it's really not good! He gets way too much of a pass from people who actually haven't really read what he posts on there. That spills over because he also has other bullshit opinions on other things too. Fuck reading this shit passively.

‘Terrible politics’ or not - he’s on the left (this is a fact) and takes on board targeted criticisms of his opinions.

Is it possible for you to acknowledge that regardless of your political outrage, it’s not cool to direct things at him so personally? No one’s silencing your opinion.

As for a tortured excuse, I’m just trying to tell you directly that this is a good person you’ve being doing this to. You’re not required to like him because of that; he’s just (as sarahell pointed out) a really weird target for your aggression.

it is. i have been wanting to apologize for a lot of things from late last year and early this year. people leaving because of things that i have done is definitely a big one.

gyac, i let you down in a number of ways and i'm sorry. in any way that i try to think about it, in the end i was being self-centered. I know what you and others mean about the physical effect, the physiological effect. i'm really sorry for that. that crosses a line into a real life effect, and if i'm ever doing that via the internet i always want the other person to be laughing or at least feeling good, not feeling awful. i'm really sorry.

‘Terrible politics’ or not - he’s on the left (this is a fact) and takes on board targeted criticisms of his opinions.
…
As for a tortured excuse, I’m just trying to tell you directly that this is a good person you’ve being doing this to. You’re not required to like him because of that; he’s just (as sarahell pointed out) a really weird target for your aggression.

It needs to be serious, given what has been happening. You say he's 'predominately' left, which is telling, if it's coming from someone who knows him. To me, who doesn't, it absolutely isn't.

Tangent we're going to disagree. Stop churning out 'facts' that have no basis in reality. Tell us more about the "many many times" you have "called imago out irl for regrettable things he may have said or done".

Stop arsing me about, you are not going to fool me, let's have some actual facts here!

Living in my head rent-free as the kids like to say,

If it makes you feel any better it’s clearly mutual

The problem with imago on the politics thread is he gives the impression of saying things just for the sake of saying things and he comes across as superficial, uninformed and, yes, unserious and that does annoy people. I don't actually know what his politics are, it's more a case of if you can't say anything useful don't say anything, but he's not very good at not saying anything.

gyac, I’m not disagreeing that he says disrespectful and inflammatory things sometimes, or that because he’s a nice person it somehow exonerates him from the impact he has on others and other consequences of his actions. I just think that xyzzzz’s approach regularly crosses a line of acceptability that he seems unable to acknowledge.

Stop arsing me about, you are not going to fool me, let's have some actual facts here!

This made me actually lol. I’m about 50% sure you’re intentionally joking, but just in case you’re not, fooling you is not something I am interested in doing. Nor is detailing arguments I’ve had with imago for your benefit.

it is i think a good point that i'm not on the uk politics thread (or any politics thread, really - i'm just not sure i see the benefit of addressing politics from a discourse-based perspective) and from the way posters here describe imago's contributions, i think if i were to... encounter opinions from him regarding us politics that are equivalent to his apparent takes on uk politics, i think that i should take extreme umbrage with him - not just his apparently ill-informed opinions, but him personally.

regarding xyzzzz, i had a dream in which i made an in-depth post going into detail (_again_) about various aspects of his behavior i find problematic. i'm a witch and i believe in portents, and the main thing i believe this dream portends is that i should take my own advice and stop analyzing xyzzzz's behavior in detail. honestly, it was a pretty pleasant dream all considered. a relief. i have a lot of nightmares, a lot of really disturbing dreams about things way worse than somebody being... not even _wrong_, really, just slightly full of himself... on the internet. i know the question when one gets involved in these threads is "why are you letting him take up free space in your head", but xyzzzz, honestly, your petty beef with imago is a far more _pleasant_ thing to think about than most of the stuff that takes up space in my head. i should probably start taking prazosin or something. a lot of my friends take prazosin.

so i do wanna just thank you, xyzzzz. every minute i spend thinking about the ways in which you are fundamentally well-intentioned, but sometimes engage with imago in unhealthy ways, is a minute i don't spend things i would prefer not to talk about here, because learned helplessness doesn't suit me.

All of you going on about 'problematic' behaviour and I'm the one that's been told to die. What a joke.

This made me actually lol. I’m about 50% sure you’re intentionally joking, but just in case you’re not, fooling you is not something I am interested in doing. Nor is detailing arguments I’ve had with imago for your benefit.

― tangenttangent, Saturday, 2 July 2022 bookmarkflaglink

It's 50% bullshit. Payback for 100% on your side.

xyzzzz is fully invested in doubling down on how right he is and always has been and really we all owe him an apology for criticizing anything he says, because it was perfectly justified and he's really doing us all a favor by being the rightest person on the board.

let us all stop and consider how absolutely right he is in taking this position.

You can pipe down Aimless, you offer nothing to the majority of threads you post in. (I say majority only because I sure as shit am not reading more of your posts than I need to).

So, I am in danger of almost wasting your time? I will take your advice for what it is worth.

And yes, actually, I would like to know why xyzzzz__ being told to die is acceptable, it seems out of bounds. Perhaps LJ himself rather than his ex might clarify.

He's not on ILE anymore.

He has left the building

To me, who does post in ukpol, imago absolutely does and has start fights with us, who are mainly a pretty demoralised bunch of people, and who are struggling to handle the absolute bleakness of

hey, thanks for pointing this out, and xyzzz, yeah, without this context my post was clueless. Because I can definitely relate to this feeling as an American. And in the context of US politics threads, there is a tendency among some posters towards detachment that can be hard to take when you are not as detached as they are. When you can't be as detached, because this shit is actually real for you and/or your family, etc. And even though the detachment may be performative, like for some people it's a coping mechanism, when you don't cope that way, and/or can't cope that way ... it fucking sucks and feels monstrous in a way.

It's 50% bullshit. Payback for 100% on your side.

God damn. You are one cold person.

xp Detachment can be a defense against fatalism and despair. I am deeply worried about my children's future in this nation and this world, and am constantly fighting against an overwhelming tide of helplessness.

Kind of funny that this whole thing spun off from imago misreading xyzzz’s response to an aimless post literally everyone in that thread was making fun of for being proudly thick, of all the things a thing can spin off from

xp Detachment can be a defense against fatalism and despair. I am deeply worried about my children's future in this nation and this world, and am constantly fighting against an overwhelming tide of helplessness.

It's much easier to be detached when engaging in discussions with strangers on the Internet than it is when living one's actual daily life.

It's much easier to be detached when engaging in discussions with strangers on the Internet than it is when living one's actual daily life.

I am defending no one, gyac. I am speaking from my own perspective as someone who without doubt comes across, at least sometimes, as detached. I have no other dog in this fight, other than perhaps a general desire that people work out their shit without resorting to what we used to call flame wars, or taking their toys and going home.

Detachment is also something more affordable to the privileged.

Did you type this line on your smartphone or your laptop?

xxxxxxxpost yeah, something finally 'broke' in me last year. during the pandemic, I remember being dug in and focused no matter how bad shit was getting, same thing politically, and then the combination of the Delta wave changing the trajectory, the caretaking situation getting worse, and some of the events of the world spiraling at an unchecked rate, I just shut down. and then felt my usual obsessive guilt over doing that or experiencing any joy at all which would lead me into the same circular spiral day in and out - my meds don't work as well against my OCD symptoms as I used to, I guess. what doesn't help is some of the assuming the general population does of what people are or aren't going through (and I include myself in that). which is also happening in this thread.

gonna leave it there as I don't want to derail the thread (also this is not a defense of anybody itt)

_Detachment is also something more affordable *to the privileged*._

Did you type this line on your smartphone or your laptop?

and I'm the one that's been told to die

tbf another poster has been quoted in this thread telling LJ to die


anyway my vote is that LJ's keyboard gets rigged to deliver a mild electric shock every time he posts a bad take, and xyz's is rigged to deliver a strong one any time he replies to LJ outside of ukpol threads at all

sic otm

Did you type this line on your smartphone or your laptop?

gtfo with this

can't we just merge their two accounts so they have time share a log-in?

Did you type this line on your smartphone or your laptop?

― but also fuck you (unperson), Saturday, July 2, 2022 12:01 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

oh my god fuck off

It's 50% bullshit. Payback for 100% on your side.

God damn. You are one cold person.

― tangenttangent, Saturday, 2 July 2022 bookmarkflaglink

Pathetic.

Idk fellas, i started off angry at xyzzzz__ and LJ both. We’ve got people who don’t know xyzzzz__ outside of his admittedly obnoxious interactions in various political threads, and now it’s cool to post about, let me get this straight and finally give the context most of you are missing because you don’t know xyzzzz__ irl like most ukpol posters (including imago) do.

See, UK politics is a fucking horrible place atm and has been for years. The government is racist and is currently deporting refugees to Rwanda. The opposition is using racism to win voters from white angry old men at the expense of the minorities who do vote for them. Xyzzzz__ is not white; he is affected by these policies and the mainstreaming of such racism. It is not and never has been an intellectual exercise for him; he lives it every day.

To have people in here either insinuating or outright saying he’s the privileged one is a pack of lies, frankly, and I’m sorry to say all this but sic’s disgusting electrical shocks post really sealed it for me. Really great work all around.

Like!!! Think about it for one second here. Why would a person of colour be so angry and hurt at someone treating very real issues as a game and a debate? Fucking hell.

By the way, both tt and imago have met xyzzzz__. They know all this already.

Sarahell - thanks for seeing where I'm coming from. I appreciate it. Also I now know of another xyz posting in other msg boards now.

Also thanks to gyac, Tom D and Calzino for at least backing up what I'm talking about wrt some of LJ's behaviour many xps..

conversely I find it easier than ever to be detached from UK politics for many of the reasons gyac lists

look we’ve all got our own coping methods ob, some of us read 10 Marian Keyes novels in a row for example.

lol I actually read 3 over the last month after you (rightly) corrected my ill informed opinion that she doesn't write memorable male characters

I just like the women more

Bump the Marian Keyes thread and talk about it with me!

"I'm only here for the craic"

it's easier to detach when every last vestige of hope that you naively built up during '15-'19 has been completely eliminated, but still it is a festering wound.

For me, it was '08 to, oh, about '09.

And yes, actually, I would like to know why xyzzzz__ being told to die is acceptable, it seems out of bounds.

definitely! I like LJ quite a bit, but that was a fucked up thing for him to say. emil.y apologized for the post in which she wished death on LJ in 2007. I forget who it was who wished death on Morbz when it was known he was battling cancer (Woody Allen thread, I think, Morbz' post was awful, but the reaction was excessive), but I believe they later apologized.

sic's contribution to the UKpol thread a few years back (parroting the same anti-Corbyn lies as right-wing media were doing at the time) was just about as infuriating as LJ's worst posts on there.

It is not and never has been an intellectual exercise for him; he lives it every day.

and because of that, it takes a significant amount of strength to engage with it on ilx. Like, this is a voluntary community. For a lot of us, it's a respite from bullshit that we're forced to deal with. I know that there have been threads over the years where the general tenor of conversation was "intellectual exercise" but for me, personally, it was real. And I was told "I was too close to the topic; chill" essentially ... and eventually I just decided that the best course of action for me, was to just avoid those threads (mostly, I am not perfectly self-disciplined), rather than be the "one band member that doesn't play along" in a context where everyone else is intellectually exercising.

But I definitely don't want to imply that that is how everyone should handle this type of conflict in regards to every thread.

disgusting electrical shocks post

I don't know if you took it as meaning something different, but this was intended as a light joke about aversion therapy, postulating a scenario that is entirely fanciful and literally impossible. I like both posters, and also strongly wish that they would not derail completely unrelated conversations by bursting into extremely unproductive fights on other threads.

Detachment can be a defense against fatalism and despair. I am deeply worried about my children's future in this nation and this world, and am constantly fighting against an overwhelming tide of helplessness.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux)

_disgusting electrical shocks post_

I don't know if you took it as meaning something different, but this was intended as a light joke about aversion therapy, postulating a scenario that is entirely fanciful and literally impossible. I like both posters, and also strongly wish that they would not derail completely unrelated conversations by bursting into _extremely unproductive_ fights on other threads.

I forget who it was who wished death on Morbz when it was known he was battling cancer (Woody Allen thread, I think, Morbz' post was awful, but the reaction was excessive), but I believe they later apologized.

― sarahell, Saturday, 2 July 2022 bookmarkflaglink

Amateurist iirc

He was given a week off, I think..

wld be fairly surprised if there aren't multiple instances of Morbs urging death upon other posters tbf

a few years back

hey calz! I don't remember what I said specifically but iirc a non-UK person asked a "as an outsider, wtd w/ Corbyn?" q, I made a from-and-targeted-to-an-outsider offhand summary of the kind of slagging he was getting, and then stfu when it turned out that some UK posters were awake and that what I'd said came off as a glib intrusion into a discussion space with a distinct character. Litigating my intent would not have clarified the matter for the questioner, and would have just shit up the thread for the people who actively populate it.

(Sorry if it means you still get furious when you see me post about anything else though! Seriously.)


((and to gyac for the glibness of saying "therapy" - my experience is with electric fences on farms, I had no pathology in mind at all.))

I don't really gaf about it now tbh sic, but I do have a laser precision memory for when people post garbage!

there's elephants that let grudges go quicker than you calz :D

tangentially reminds me maybe it's time for the "WALL-E OF ILX" poll

xp

I refuse to believe that, you bastard!

lol we'll revisit this in 10 years

my experience is with electric fences on farms, I had no pathology in mind at all.

well, that's great that you didn't have it in mind when you posted it ... but .... as a highly knowledgeable person, I would be _shocked_ to discover you weren't aware of the pathologies that electric shocks have historically been used to "treat"

*considering you are a highly knowledgeable person

can't we just merge their two accounts so they have time share a log-in?

― o shit the sheriff (NickB)

the last time i had to share a login with someone who didn't like me very much the united states secret service came to visit

let's not do that

it was more okay to throw out these ideas (shared login, etc) when it was whiney and deej, two white dudes beefing over hemiolas than in this case ... like it is legit making me feel a bit icky

See, UK politics is a fucking horrible place atm and has been for years. The government is racist and is currently deporting refugees to Rwanda. The opposition is using racism to win voters from white angry old men at the expense of the minorities who do vote for them. Xyzzzz__ is not white; he is affected by these policies and the mainstreaming of such racism. It is not and never has been an intellectual exercise for him; he lives it every day.

― Osama bin Chinese (gyac)

i think this is a really good point. i think navigating things as text on a screen is difficult for me in a way it didn't used to be. when i started out on the internet, i was way more comfortable communicating through text than i was in person - i liked the way text stripped personal identity, stripped cultural context, from what i said. in retrospect of course i did, the people who benefit from these things are people who have "default" identities - cis, het, white, male.

honestly i do really struggle to keep track of who the individual posters here are, coming from the us, coming from a position where i haven't actually met any of the other posters here. even though the pool of regular posters has shrunk down a lot more over the past few years, it's still hard to get my head around, and i do genuinely prefer to look at people in the context of who they _are_. i think that's a benefit of this board, that people here know each other, even though obviously it has its down sides.

so seriously, xyzzzz, my apologies. i haven't actually seen you say anything that you weren't within your rights to say (as opposed to lj), and this thread has helped me to reconsider my pre-existing biases. and thank you to gyac and other posters here for helping me to question my biases.

Gyacomole

KM I am happy to see you engaging with your past behavior. You don't owe me an apology IMO, but there are others who are owed one besides gyac (as you seem to realize, again to your credit).

btw I apologize to you sleeve for saying something similarly vile to you last year. I wish I had a good excuse for it but really I don't.

in the months since the Slackgate I've definitely learned to just take a breath and let the moment pass before posting.

calstars, do you remember that it was you that started the "onethread" slack channel?

not saying anything, i am just saying it was a weird surprise when we looked up where the channel started.

Neando we're good, no worries, thank u tho

calstars, do you remember that it was you that started the "onethread" slack channel?

Gyacomole

so seriously, xyzzzz, my apologies. i haven't actually seen you say anything that you weren't within your rights to say (as opposed to lj), and this thread has helped me to reconsider my pre-existing biases. and thank you to gyac and other posters here for helping me to question my biases.

― Kate (rushomancy), Saturday, 2 July 2022 bookmarkflaglink

Thanks for this Kate, and for acknowledging where I'm coming from.

xp I don’t remember but I stand by it. I suggest you get over it because I’m not going to apologise for it, and by the way you’ve been making these outbursts for more than a year now?

Not sure what your problem with me is or why you dissed me on slack, I never you existed until you attacked me

― calstars, Sunday, 21 March 2021 23:49 (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

Hey gyac go fuck yourself

― calstars, Saturday, 12 March 2022 22:50 (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

You mean besides the time you replied on slack right? Fuck you

― calstars, Saturday, 12 March 2022 23:12 (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

Just fuck off

― calstars, Saturday, 12 March 2022 23:30 (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

I am shushing her
On slack she assured me that no one gives a fuck what i post

― calstars, Saturday, 12 March 2022 23:42 (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

You came out of nowhere and told me that no one gives a shit what I post

― calstars, Saturday, 12 March 2022 23:47 (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

I clearly don’t want to engage with you, I actively avoid your posts, leave me alone please.

Calstars, multiple people thought it was weird and annoying (I thought you were a bot) because your only participation on the slack was randomly dragging in your "I am an adult at a bar, dropping my bon mots for you" into the slack. You would not even talk to anyone. Not sure why you are only focusing on gyac here.

calstars nobody gives a shit what you post

I used too many words. Yes.

so seriously, xyzzzz, my apologies. i haven't actually seen you say anything that you weren't within your rights to say (as opposed to lj),

I assume Kate has only seen what I said to LJ in a couple of threads.

No one can anything they want to anyone else.

Also I am not hurt (he has told me to die a few times and I didn't say anything to a mod) but I wanted to point out how people weren't picking up on it. And that this was happening in a moderated board, in a thread with posters who were making noises around stamping out toxic behaviours.

I assume Kate has only seen what I said to LJ in a couple of threads.

No one can anything they want to anyone else.

― xyzzzz__

yeah this is where i was going with that. gyac, xyzzzz, i think what you're both saying is right. to clarify my apology, its basis i said some things to or about xyzzzz in this thread that, on consideration, i think weren't warranted, and that's why i wanted to apologize. much love to you both!