Michael Douglas:The Angriest White Man?

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So Michael Douglas, in 1993 and 1994, starred in two films which best signify the anger/fear/resentment of the American White Male that helped lead to Newt Gingrich's capturing of the House in 1994. These are Falling Down (white collar white man deals with the travesties of a world that favors Asians (OH NO!), Latinos (OH NO!), Blacks (OH NO!) and everyone else over the Good Ole Hardworking Boy who's eventually led back to society after being scared straight by a militia-minded white supremacist (message: he's at the brink, but he's still better than all them other colored folk)) and Disclosure (white collar white man is raped by a woman (the smokin' Demi Moore) literally after getting raped by her figuratively by being passed over for a promotion in favor of a pair of ovaries and a pair of tits, turning to a hispanic lawyer to save him but in the end he must save himself only to, once the dust has settled, be passed over for the promotion again by yet another woman (a dyke, probably)). Both of these films are insanely paranoid, and are so indicative of the under-seige mentality of much of America's white male population. I'm not sure what would have drawn Douglas to these roles, but these films are very similar in their themes... Still thinking this one out.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:33 (twenty-three years ago)

but falling down is about what a wacko idiot MD is: same set-up, opposite message

in fact almost all MD's best roles are about what an idiot the character MD is playing is

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:39 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think the message is that he's a wacko idiot at all, mark s. We are supposed to cheer when he bitches about the shittiness of fast food or when he complains about the cost of a can of Coke to the Korean store owner. And Jesus, the whole thing starts with bad traffic! Of course we are supposed to identify with him!

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Why can't you equally just think he's being a mentalist?

Graham (graham), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Michael Douglas:The Angriest White Man? No, that would be me.

Lynskey (Lynskey), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

but he is so yuk!! what is there to identify with?

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:44 (twenty-three years ago)

lynskey r u in the remake of basic instinct?

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:45 (twenty-three years ago)

The entire gender issue in "Disclosure" is an enormous red herring.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:46 (twenty-three years ago)

I agree with you about Disclousure - its a very stupid movie based on a very stupid book. But I think Falling Down is a much more nuanced film than you suggest. I don't think we ever feel that much sympathy for D-Fens, the film paints a character who litearlly gets fired one day and has to deal with a world he no longer understands. Now that does include his own racism which is then contrasted with the militiaman. Is the film paranoid - I don't think so, the film is mainly a morality play in which someone who always thought he was doing the right thing is no longer sure. (Considering the right thing he was doing was being in the defence industry its nicely ironic).

I think Douglas makes good choices of contoroversial political films - even if what comes out isn't always great. He produced One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, is great in The China Syndrome and in Traffic he has his moments.

(After reading other posts. We are not supposed to identify with D-Fens, which is why he does things that we are supposed to cheer and in the order he does them. Sure the traffic and the idiocy of the fast food joint is good because when we start to identify we notice what horrible people we are ourselves. cf Man Bites Dog).

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:47 (twenty-three years ago)

All MD is in Falling Down is anger. And that's what there is to identify with. I remember seeing this in the theater and people cheered! Many people feel the way his character did... the film just took it to an extreme.

Explain Disclosure, then Dan. Crichton wrote the book in the wake of the Clarence Thomas-Anita Hill thing, when "sexual harrassment" = "political correctness." It's about the death of masculinity, the waning of testosterone. This is the undercurrent in America at the time. Same with FD.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:50 (twenty-three years ago)

That's a good post Pete, but still, seeing his working in the defense industry as ironic is erroneous. For a vast majority of Americans, this is good work. This is good, God-fearing work for him to do. He's killing Commies! Or Arabs, at least. Your parenthetical is good though. A good point, but I don't think many people would pick up on that.

And what of Robert Duvall's character? He's completely emasculated by his pill-popping basketcase wife!

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

"many people feel the way his character does" is not the same as "the film's message is that those people are right"!!!!!!!

i didn't identify with him hence yr theory is proved wrong!!

douglas carries with him the ambiguity of the weight of his earlier roles, inc. the idiot in basic instinct and the idiot in fatal attraction

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:54 (twenty-three years ago)

I did not say that the film's message is right. I think Pete's parenthetical gets it right.

You do not see a similar strain between these two movies, mark?

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:57 (twenty-three years ago)

His idiocy in both of those films was unambiguous!

RickyT (RickyT), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:58 (twenty-three years ago)

The entirety of "Disclosure" the movie (I know nothing about the book) is about the insidiousness of corporate culture and the lengths people will go to torpedo rivals. When the sexual harrassment plan is derailed, Demi and pal switch to a Plan B designed to torpedo Michael Douglas that they never get a chance to implement because he sacrifices himself in order to move someone more sympathetic to his faction into power. It's WAY more about insanely evil office politics than it is about sexual harrassment.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 16:59 (twenty-three years ago)

i identified with robert duvall!!

it's true it wz a social undercurrent at the time — cf newt gingrich, yes — but when gingrich shut the govt down he lost support, so that wz an undercurrent then too, and the film also speaks to that, ie MD gets mad at ther same things you do but then tackles this in the fashion of a wacko dingbat

another films i just realised is reffed = the swimmer!! viz travelling across LA in a non-scinationed direction = at once thrillingly disorientating and attractive (freedom from the social) and the act of a deluded person

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm not sure i ever saw disclosure yancey, except maybe like ten mins on TV b4 i remembered how much i hate demi moore

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Well to be fair its not a point they are supposed to pick up on if the film is doing it well. And if the film is supposed to have an heroic arc for Douglas what about the ending? The film is about the supposed Western attitude that the world owes us a living, when actually it can often be a pretty shitty place. Lesson to be learnt by Douglas' daughter.

Duvall is the nominal hero of the film and he also represents the lack of heroism in real life. He is representing the idea that life really isn't about good and evil, right and wrong - rather its often about having a bad day - hence even he sympathises with the non-sympathetic lead. (Changing Lanes presents a similar idea but really fluffs its ending).

Mark - are you saying that the audience will be influenced by MD's previous work? (The Swimmer - excellent).

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:04 (twenty-three years ago)

(I'd just like to point out that it seems to be mostly the English claiming we're not meant to identify with these characters: I'm sorry to say that our country may disappoint you once again.)

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:04 (twenty-three years ago)

scinationed? i think i musta meant sanctioned |:-|

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I see corporate culture and sexual politics in opposite places as you, Dan, but that's probably from reading the book. The book has sections on sexual harrassment filled with legalese, just as Rising Sun the novel has loads on Japanese business practices.

Virtually every Hollywood flick has a point where the wacko is brought back into society (many times with death, more often with medals (think Die Hard & Lethal Weapon)). It would be "socially irresponsible" to do otherwise. And yes, MD attacks institutions that many would consider deserving in a way that most people would find revolting: which is why it works! If MD were to decide not to eat at MikkieD's, declaring their food not to his liking, then where's the drama? Yet, it's not too fictional. I would offer a guarantee that somewhere in the pitching of that movie they considered making D-Fens a postal worker.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:08 (twenty-three years ago)

no of course not pete, i'm saying the film's "message" — including esp.what m.douglas saw in it (ie link to the swimmer) — may differ from what the audience made of it...

(haha there was a stageplay of anne frank's diary which wz so bad that people in the asudience were shouting out "she's in the attic!")

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:08 (twenty-three years ago)

It's WAY more about insanely evil office politics than it is about sexual harrassment.

Even if, in the course of the movie, the sexual harrassment angle was a red herring, you have to admit that for everyone else, it was awfully tasty red herring -- the movie got a lot of free press + publicity thanx to its 'provocative' subject matter. (The same is true for the use of VR in the movie.)

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:10 (twenty-three years ago)

IIRC, wasn't the reason MD went postal at the fast-food place because they had *just* stopped breakfast service only a minute or two before he ordered, not because the food was crap?

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:11 (twenty-three years ago)

You are right Michael. But then he rants about the pictures of the food on the menu and how they fail to correspond with what you actually get. I'm sure in the director's cut there's a rant about how there's too much ice in the soda.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, there generally is too much ice in the soda.

(sorry but halfway thru this thread Nitsuh stole my point so I'm stuck with just that)

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:20 (twenty-three years ago)

About the Brits seeing him as unidentifiable?

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:21 (twenty-three years ago)

And adding to the confusion: In American President he essentially plays a neutered Bill Cliton.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:28 (twenty-three years ago)

"Cliton" = "D*ck-Cl*t," obviously.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, I'm not going to ask what you're thinking about instead of working...

But anyway, yeah, that I do know a lot of people who find the characters identifiable - particularly in Falling Down. I know a lot of people who've been laid off recently who are in love with the movie. I think it's just the two different cultures at work here. Everyone is seeing him as a complete nutter in this thread - but a lot of people I know, scarily or not, see him as a justified nutter, a man who went nuts because of what people did to him.

I like italics.

Anyway. Michael Douglas in the film is not viewed as some sort of crazy freak by the American viewing public. He is viewed exactly how you put it forth in the question. He's busted his ass to be rejected in a world that has come to be full of quotas favoring the non-white-male majority and nothing he does in a regular course of action will gain him back respect so it is time for war. Clearly this message is completely bitchcakes bonkers, but so are a lot of people...

Our economy provokes insanity, I guess. It's not on some steady hum, we have 5 years fabulousness, 5 years the dole, back and forth and no one here seems to learn from it so they have no savings and then have to blame everyone else when they get fucked over - who likes to blame themselves?

Not having any experience with British economic factors and the British version of the good ole boy, I really can't say for certain if this explains the divide...

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:44 (twenty-three years ago)

In the end D-FENS is not an idiot, he is not a figure to identify with or to revile -- he's a loser. Someone with a repressed screwed up life pushed into a final freefall and lashing out on the way down. Anyone wanting to see one-dimensional interpretations of the role is free to do so, but THAT is idiocy. The reason some people may do that is because of the way the character is revealed piece by piece and they stay with just the initial impression and don't pick up the other stuff along the journey.

Disclosure sounds terrible. Rising Sun doubly so.

Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:51 (twenty-three years ago)

But he's a loser because of society! He works hard. He has a family. He wears a tie. He does what he's supposed to do, but society has changed the rules while he wasn't looking.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Middle Aged White Man = THE ULTIMATE VICTIM

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 17:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Exschactly. Alan, you have a good point and I think that's a proper interpretation of the intent of the film; however I don't think it's the way that most people interpret it. Round these parts, especially recently, people seem all crazy for that film in Yancey's interpretation of it. "Society has changed the rules" is a very accurate way of looking at the common thought as I see it.

Is that the film's fault? It's as much Falling Down's fault as Columbine was The Matrix's fault - take however you would choose to take such a comment.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:00 (twenty-three years ago)

well, the people he is supposedly "better than" have been consistently shafted, but he has been shafted AND betrayed

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:04 (twenty-three years ago)

so i don't think his feelings are paranoid, i just think his response is a disaster

i guess my earliest post shd prolly have said "falling down is about what a wacko idiot MD is gradually revealed to be": bcz i. he believed what he wz told and did what he wz told, and ii. he takes it out on those who are still caught at stage ii.

the film's deep message is that the us middle classes have been proletarianised right up to the point of actually realising this and combining with the rest of who they've become

but anti-cap radicalism is embedded, latent, in more us middlebrow art than you can shake a stick at

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Of course they have, but that's beside the point. Falling Down's sole point of reference for history is the '50s (which every American knows was Utopia, even the coloreds). It's about emotion, frustration, the individual (meaning FUCK THEM, WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME???).

(strangest point in the movie: when md sees the black man wearing the exact same clothes as him protesting outside of a bank for being denied a loan ("they say i'm not 'economically viable,'" he screams) and there's a flash of recognition on md's face (message: gotta get a job at a bank so i can put them in their place, jk) -- i think this signifies not that they are similar (because would the protesting black dude really like md?), but that md sees himself as the new black man, the new victim. it's telling that the black man is protesting not getting a loan, not something more basic or volatile, like a lack of healthcare or something)

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:12 (twenty-three years ago)

if the film's only reference point is the 50s, then the film's message is "the 50s were a lie"

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:16 (twenty-three years ago)

I really think it can be taken in the opposite way, because here the '50s are seen as Utopia, are still referenced as such. This would be a strength of the movie, because for conservatives I think it's read as their ultimate triumph, while for liberals it makes them feel better/worse because conservatives are just fucking nuts. I still maintain that the most common interpretation of FD is the former.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Even if, in the course of the movie, the sexual harrassment angle was a red herring, you have to admit that for everyone else, it was awfully tasty red herring -- the movie got a lot of free press + publicity thanx to its 'provocative' subject matter.

I absolutely agree. This was one of the things I really liked about the movie; it pulled people in with the "sexual discrimination like you've never seen it before!" angle and then served up a story about something completely different. I call this the "'When A Man Loves A Woman' Effect".

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:22 (twenty-three years ago)

That's not a strange point -- it's KEY.

Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:22 (twenty-three years ago)

(BTW: I have not seen and probably never will see "Falling Down" because MD's character looks like such a freakin' tool.)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:23 (twenty-three years ago)

my KEY point was Yancey's ref to the loan protestor guy. Dan -- it's a grebt film. (not as good as "Doctor Who and The Two Romanas Lez Up" obv)

Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:26 (twenty-three years ago)

It's certainly key, because MD identified more with the black man than with the militia dude (remember the militia guy saying, "We're the same you and me. We're the same don't you see?"). I think is because the black man signifies, in a weird flipflop, the OPPRESSED while the militia dude is the OPPRESSOR. MD sees himself as oppressed, not the oppressor.

And Alan, it is a great film. I haven't seen it in several years, yet I remember it almost perfectly.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:29 (twenty-three years ago)

MD's character looks like such a freakin' tool

He's Dilbert on meth.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:30 (twenty-three years ago)

How does Wonderboys work into this, tho?

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Anyone know MD's political persuasion? Should I assume him to liberal like the rest of those Hollywood tree-huggers?

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 18:58 (twenty-three years ago)

They're all hippies, Yancey. HOWEVER I just found this quote in a quick look thru a Michael Douglas filmography (there was an article about his film choices):

"I get rapped about that all the time, but I'm tired of women using sexual politics as a defense mechanism. I'm not against women, but I AM in defense of men."

Take as you wish.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 19:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Gawd bless him.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 19:06 (twenty-three years ago)

"I guess a lot of my films are very ambiguous, meaning they're hard to pigeonhole, and that doesn't always grab an audience. But you work on your failures just as hard as you do on your successes. I still think of Falling Down with fond affection. I'm really proud of that film." -- MD

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 19:10 (twenty-three years ago)

if d.caruso's film career had continued after jade he might have been the solution to all this douglas-identification ambiguity , charting out similar character territory with NO moral loose-ends/room for interpretation - he was designed in a lab for absolutely nobody to identify with = everyone is in on the gag, gets the "message".

(except i don't believe douglas pictures would be better if they were more cut-and-dry, and anyway oops i'm starting to like caruso but have always been creeped right out by douglas and his oeuvre)

jones (actual), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 19:11 (twenty-three years ago)

"I tricked that stupid Welsh tart into marrying me - I'm old enough to be her father! Worship me now!" - MD

I don't like David Caruso at all but King of New York is - fact - the greatest film ever made, besides Goodfellas.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 19:11 (twenty-three years ago)

The maker of Falling Down talks about it.

http://the-tech.mit.edu/V113/N9/shumacher.09a.html

Haven't had time to read it yet, off to lunch!

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 19:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, he answers one key question discussed here: "I feel that he acts out a fantasy behavior. I think that audiences will be hard pressed not to identify with him."

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 19:18 (twenty-three years ago)

haha i realised while doing the washing up that i am taking totally the opp.line w.falling down that i did w.if....

explanation: i fancy macdowell hence distrust that i side w.him and fight it vs MD = uber-yuk so i feel sorry for him and squirm to discover ambiguity

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 19:38 (twenty-three years ago)

I thought we were being invited to identify with MD's character. The militiaman encounter was a way of positioning him away from the extreme, overtly racist right, of trying to tell liberals that MD wasn't a bad guy, in case it was starting to look that way. I thought it was an attempt to map where a good man should stand right now. On that basis I hated it. On the other hand, I don't have to read it that way however right I am about the intention, and if you take MD as a nutter, you get to watch the great Robert Duvall hunt him down, so I can like it too.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 19:42 (twenty-three years ago)

It also seems very American that we get hung up on racism, more then the other societal ills being presented. I mean, maybe I'm remembering the film wrong, but I only count two scenes in which the race card was pulled: the beatdown of the stereotypical Hispanic gang members, and the Nazi gun club guy. I totally don't remember the bank loan scene, but that doesn't seem to pin any racial hostility on MD's character. I mean the two huge factors that cause his "fall," are that he's lost his job, and he's lost his wife and kid. Being white has nothing to do with either of these.

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 19:45 (twenty-three years ago)

If I recall the film correctly, there were a lot of minority members in the film. MD doesn't seem to specifically have hatred against these people or necessarily pull violent acts against them because of their skin tone, but it seems to pull into his belief that he is now the oppressed member of society.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 19:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Ally's OTM.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:17 (twenty-three years ago)

I always remember the golf course scene, where he causes/allows the old rich white man to die of a heart attack all the while laughing at him. (Since at that point I gave up entirely on sympathizing with his character.) I think he's more alienated by all the racial minorites then oppressed by them. A fine line I guess. (It's obvious were his character a young black man, the movie would have been hugely different.)

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I would love to see a movie where Michael Douglas played a young black man.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:46 (twenty-three years ago)

He plays "attractive man" all the time, which is just as far fetched, so why not.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Michael Douglas as the star of the movie version of Invisible Man: classic or what?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Totally agree, Ally. Plus, he's always so frightening. How could Gwen dig him in A Perfect Murder??? He's evil!

I had forgotten about that scene, bnw. I think this solidies his status as the oppressed even more.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:50 (twenty-three years ago)

Michael Douglas starring in Native Son: Even better.

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:50 (twenty-three years ago)

He looks like Gwen's grandfather for fuck's sake. Katie Holmes digs him too! In Wonderboys! What the hell! The JOWLS does no one see the JOWLS???

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Um, anyway, the whole thing is that the movie isn't a white versus minority type of thing necessarily. Because the white people - the wealthy white people - are bad. It's that the middle/lower class male is now PART of the oppressed, but because of historical interactions they are not accepted by other minorities.

I haven't seen this movie in like forever, why do I remember this shit?

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:54 (twenty-three years ago)

He's also four feet tall... Maybe he's hung? Tracer claims Ed Begley Jr. has Hollywood's hugest cock (I've always heard Willem Dafoe), but maybe it's MD?

Oh, ILM NYC movie night! Falling Down, soon!

Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:55 (twenty-three years ago)

WHY does Tracer know that?! I'm so alarmed right now. Anyway, I'm totally in for movie night. Hell, I even volunteer my flat. I'm hospitable like that. Can we watch Beauty & The Beast after Falling Down? I keep meaning to watch the DVD of it someone gave me.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 20:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Angry White Guy followed by Noble Hairy Savage. (It sounds like pro wrestling.)

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 21:04 (twenty-three years ago)

All I can think about is Fred Savage now.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 21:25 (twenty-three years ago)

All I can think about is Ed Begley Jr's cock! What can I say!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 22:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Too much, apparently.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 23:30 (twenty-three years ago)

I haven't seen this film, but I have a really hard time empathising in any way with characters played by Michael Douglas. He has appeared in too many films in which his character might as well have had a sign saying 'I'M A BIG TOOL' flashing over his head that whenever his unpleasant face appears on screen I immediately think 'this character is a big tool'. Does no one else suffer from this problem?

RickyT (RickyT), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 23:41 (twenty-three years ago)

I certainly am not someone who doesn't suffer from this problem.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 23:44 (twenty-three years ago)

ricky that is exactly my point!!

(unless you are arguing with tracer's inside knowledge)

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 23:44 (twenty-three years ago)

I am not arguing with Tracer's inside knowledge (which gives me the slight ph34r) but doesn't his intrinsic tooliness pre-empt any gradual revelation of his character being a tool? He only has to appear on screen for you to think 'oh-oh toolish behaviour ahead'.

RickyT (RickyT), Tuesday, 19 November 2002 23:53 (twenty-three years ago)

well i wd assume this is why he waz chosen to play the role but NOT why he accepted it!!

so there's an intrinsic and interesting ambiguity-contradiction right there in the grain of the movie!!

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Given the other thread, I accidently reread this as "Michael Jackson: The Angriest White Man?"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 00:13 (twenty-three years ago)

I actually started to watch Falling Down once a couple of years ago. I'd completely forgotten that I'd already seen it. I guess that means me = jaded. :(

Kim (Kim), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 01:22 (twenty-three years ago)

well, my first reaction was that i really don't see the racial overtones yr getting out of this movie, but after reading thru the thread you may have some valid points. more than any of that, what i got out of the film was a man snapping because the world has gone insane

ron (ron), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 07:44 (twenty-three years ago)

fallin down was about ordinary people learning to use extraordinary weapons. any more analysis is FOOL

Queen G (Queeng), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 08:35 (twenty-three years ago)

this film and Face/Off (i think produced by MD and def featuring him in a minor role) contain a scene with one of those knives that swings open and shut. The UK TV versions of these films are quickly edited so you do not see the device flip between open/closed. WE MUST BE PROTECTED FROM THIS FILTH.

Alan (Alan), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 11:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Flick knife = instant 18 classification (its all them kids going over to France on school trips and bringing them back to cause waves of violent terror thru surbiton). Shurikens for exactly the same reason, as you can make them out of the filed down top of Dairylea tubs.

I don't get the tool thing from Douglas - he has been in too many genuinely good films, and does take pick up risky films. He's not a great actor but knows how to pick them (which also explains his lousy choices too). Have you seen Wonder Boys MArk S = best film about writers block ever.

Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 12:06 (twenty-three years ago)

What's so wrong about flick knives??

Ally (mlescaut), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 14:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Concealed blade = easy to hide in school = rise of violence with Teddy Boys in the fifties = instant ban never rethought about.

Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 14:29 (twenty-three years ago)

You all still worry about Teddy Boys?! They give those knives out to boy scouts in the U.S.

Ally (mlescaut), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 14:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Keep in mind Cliff Richard is still their biggest star, so it's always the fifties. Er, isn't it?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 15:28 (twenty-three years ago)

eleven months pass...
Whither the mentions of Alex In NYC?

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 10 November 2003 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Falling Down == One of the Greatest Movies Evah!

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Monday, 10 November 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

This confirms all of my suspicions.

Nicolars The Insult Comic Librarian (Nicole), Monday, 10 November 2003 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Whither the mentions of Alex In NYC?

See, now that's just entirely unfair.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:34 (twenty-two years ago)

nine months pass...
revive

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

i was reading about kirk douglas recently. how he helped to end the blacklist and otherwise put a lot of kennedy "new frontier" esque projects on hollywood's agenda (7 days in may, spartacus, etc.). and how he took part in the dejected "LBJ" westerns of the mid-60s as well.

i hear mike douglas is a liberal too. i'd believe it.

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Mel Gibson might now be The Angriest White Man.

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

haha. i was reviving to talk about that, dan!

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha! What about Mel's new sitcom starring Keith Carradine as Mel Gibson?

Huk-L, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't the title fits gibson because his current (in)fame doesn't come out of the same context of roles that dovetailed with the national obsession with "the forgotten white man" or whatever. he's just sort of would-be ass-kickin' evangelical man.

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I dont know.. papparazzi kinda takes this angry white male thing to the next level.. angry white male celebrity revenge fantasy film.

bill stevens (bscrubbins), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yeah, i forgot about that movie! i stand corrected.

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

it'll open huge in tribeca and hollywood but nowhere else

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I half-remember an academic essay I read comparing John Updike's Rabbit Angstrom character with Falling Down. I bet the Promise Keepers were mentioned, too.

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

DAMN YOU PAPPARAZZI!

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

this movie is FUCKED UP

QUICK TAKE:
Suspense/Thriller: A new movie star takes the law into his own hands to deal with the paparazzi that won't leave him and his family alone.

PLOT:
Fresh out of Montana, Bo Laramie (COLE HAUSER) has become the next big thing in Hollywood by starring in the action movie, "Adrenaline Force." Happily married to Abby (ROBIN TUNNEY) with whom he has a young son, Zach (BLAKE BRYAN), Bo would seem to have it all. Yet, the one thorn in his side is tabloid photographer Rex Harper (TOM SIZEMORE) who works for the publication Paparazzi and has taken an interest in snapping photos of Zach.

Bo doesn't mind being the subject of such media scrutiny as he figures that comes with the territory. But he draws the line at his family being subjected to the same. That leads to an altercation with Rex that leaves Bo arrested and having to shell out half a million dollars in a settlement to the photographer. Rex, however, isn't happy with just that. He and his paparazzi buddies -- Wendell Stokes (DANIEL BALDWIN), Leonard Clark (TOM HOLLANDER) and Kevin Rosner (KEVIN GAGE) -- then set out to hound the movie star and his family.

When that leads to a horrendous accident that leaves his wife injured and his son in a coma, Bo turns to L.A. detective Burton (DENNIS FARINA) for help, but the cop can't do anything without any witnesses. Accordingly, and with Rex and his crew repeatedly snapping photos of them everywhere he and his family appear, Bo decides to take matters into his own hands. As the harassment continues and the body count starts to rise, Burton begins to get suspicious about what's occurring, all while Bo tries to set things straight.

WILL KIDS WANT TO SEE IT?
Unless they're fans of someone in the cast or are interested in photography, it doesn't seem too likely that many will.

WHY THE MPAA RATED IT: PG-13
For intense violent sequences, sexual content and language.

CAST AS ROLE MODELS:

COLE HAUSER plays an actor who accepts intrusions into his life as part of his occupation, but becomes increasingly angered when the paparazzi focus on his family and then cause a bad car accident. He uses profanity and takes the law into own hands including murder and other acts that lead to more deaths.

TOM SIZEMORE plays a paparazzo who becomes obsessed with photographing and then ruining Bo's life. He uses profanity, has sex with a stranger (and then blackmails her with his secretly recorded tape of their encounter) and eventually tries to kill Bo and Abby.

ROBIN TUNNEY plays Bo's wife who's injured during one such incident and worries about their comatose son.

DENNIS FARINA plays the detective who's first assigned to investigate Bo's claim but then begins looking into the photographers' suspicious deaths. He uses some profanity and apparently lets Bo get away with breaking the law.

DANIEL BALDWIN, TOM HOLLANDER and KEVIN GAGE are Rex's coarse cohorts who help him in his quest against Bo and his family. They use some profanity.

OUR WORD TO PARENTS:
The following is a brief summary of the content found in this suspense/thriller that's been rated PG-13. Profanity consists of at least 9 "s" words and several slang terms for genitalia, while other expletives and colorful phrases are also uttered.
Some sexually related dialogue is present, we briefly hear and partially see a sexual encounter secretly recorded on video, some scantly clad dancers are seen and a tabloid cover photo shows a nude couple with black boxes superimposed over the man's crotch and woman's chest.

Violence consists of several deaths and murders (by gunfire, being dropped a long distance and an unseen bat assault), while fighting (some if it severe) and other struggling also occurs. That material and a bad car accident (with bad injuries) may be unsettling or suspenseful to some viewers, there are some bloody results, and all sorts of characters have bad attitudes.

A few characters drink and/or smoke, some drug references are made, and a family worries about their comatose son. Some initiative behavior is also present. Should you still be concerned about the film's appropriateness for yourself or anyone else in your home, you may want to look more closely at our detailed listings for more specific information regarding the film's content.

For those concerned with bright flashes of light on the screen, a montage of flash bulbs going off creates just that, while a later scene also has flashes.

ALCOHOL OR DRUG USE
- We see a bottle of what looks like brandy in a limo.

- Miscellaneous people have drinks in a club where one woman appears rather intoxicated and wants to do shots with Rex, but he's interested in someone else.

- We see a faked tabloid headline about Abby being on drugs and there's more of the same later in the film.

- We hear that Leonard was previously arrested for narcotics possession.

- Wendell drinks liquor straight from the bottle.

BLOOD/GORE
- Following a bad car accident, we see Zach in a coma in the hospital with bad bruises and bad looking stitch wounds on his face.

- We see some dried blood on Bo's collar and then see a black and white image of Abby following the car crash where she has some blood on her face.

- We see a dead man lying on the floor with a little bit of blood around his head.

- We see a little blood in a man's boat (on the wall and on a baseball bat, etc.) that's been left there to set him up.

- A man has some blood on his head after being beaten.


DISRESPECTFUL/BAD ATTITUDE

- Bo confronts and attacks Rex for taking photos of his son.

- Rex and his minions have bad attitudes for hounding and essentially harassing Bo and his family for their photographs (that's especially true for Rex who makes it his mission to ruin Bo's career and life). They also take photos of their bad accident scene rather than help them, break into their place to hide surveillance cameras and Rex even tries to kill them.

- Bo eventually takes vindictive matters into his own hands regarding the paparazzi. He purposefully lets one die rather than save him, kills another with a baseball bat and sets up the others (resulting in another death).

- Leonard purposefully plants the seed of Bo's supposed infidelity in Abby's mind.

- Following a car wreck that's left Bo and his family injured and unconscious, all of the photographers descend upon the scene to get photos, with one slightly pulling down the top of Abby's shirt (mostly revealing just her bare chest beneath) to get a sexier shot.

- Rex blackmails a woman with a videotape he made of them having sex at another time.

- A man lets another man fall to his death (when the victim implies he's going to ruin the rescuer's life despite him rescuing the man).

- A detective seemingly and knowingly lets a man get away with murder (involving less than savory characters).

- We hear that Rex was previously charged with attempted rape.

- Wendell refers to Abby as a "bitch."

- Rex threatens to harm Zach if Abby or Bo calls the police about their break-in.

- Burton sarcastically tells a suspect that he'll be somebody's wife in a week (referring to being in prison and being raped by men - and some viewers might not like that reference).


FRIGHTENING SCENES
Scenes listed under "Violence may be unsettling, suspenseful or scary to younger viewers and/or those with low tolerance levels for such material.

- Rex and his team surround Bo and his family's car with vehicles and take rapid-fire photos of them (blinding him with their flashes). Bo tries to get away, but one bumps his car from behind. Bo eventually slams on the brakes, but an approaching truck smashes into the car at high speed, severely damaging the car. Bo and his family are all knocked out and we see the driver of the truck lying halfway onto the hood through the windshield (we later hear that he died of his injuries, while Abby had her spleen removed and Zach is left in a coma).

- We see a man entering Bo and Abby's place with his gun drawn (as police try to race there). The man fires some shots into what turns out to be an empty bed. Bo then punches that man, kicks him in the face and then repeatedly pummels him on the floor (in a brutal fashion). He then kicks him again and holds a gun on him.


GUNS/WEAPONS
Handguns: Carried and/or used to threaten, wound or kill others. See "Violence" for details.

- We see Bo holding a gun on the poster for his latest film.

- We see fake guns being prepared on the movie set.

IMITATIVE BEHAVIOR

- Phrases: "That's bullsh*t," "They were the real sh*t," "No sh*t," "You piece of sh*t," "Oh sh*t," "Can you believe this pr*ck?" "I'm going to destroy your life and eat your soul," "Cold as hell," "Schmuck," "Freakin,'" "Damn straight," "What the hell /is that/are you doing (here)?" "Jackass," "Shut up," "Scumbags," "Jeez," "You're a moron," "Bitch" (woman), "Big ass," "I'll be a son of a bitch," "Freak" and "My ass."

- Abby wears a midriff-revealing top.

- Rex gives "the finger" to the TV (and Bo on it).

- Bo eventually takes vindictive matters into his own hands regarding the paparazzi.

- We see that Rex has paid workers to deliver Bo's household trash to him.

- Bo calls in a fake 911 call about one of the photographers waving around a gun, etc. (to get him in trouble).

- Bo hides in a pizza delivery car to get off his property without being seen.

JUMP SCENES
None.

MUSIC (SCARY/TENSE)

- A moderate amount of suspenseful and ominous music plays in the film.

MUSIC (INAPPROPRIATE)

- None, but there are some lyrics in a song playing on a car radio that we couldn't understand, thus offering the possibility of them containing potentially objectionable lyrics.

PROFANITY

- At least 9 "s" words, 2 slang terms using male genitals ("pr*ck" and "peepee"), 1 using female ones ("p*ssy"), 7 hells, 5 asses, 4 S.O.B.s, 3 damns, 1 crap, 4 uses of "G-damn," 2 each of "God" and "Oh my God" and 1 use of "Oh God."

SEX/NUDITY

- We see a tabloid cover that shows an apparently fully nude Bo and Abby standing (with black boxes superimposed over his crotch and her chest). A fan of Bo's shows him that and says he can sign his autograph across his crotch. His son later asks why there was a box across his "peepee."

- An actor on the set (real-life actor Vince Vaughn) jokes with Bo about tabloid reports indicating that Bo had a penile enhancement with which he supposedly surprised his wife. The actor goes on about that, wondering if Bo named it "Big Bo" or "The Albatross" and then keeps jokingly asking if he can see it.

- We see several quick shots of scantly clad dancers doing some sexy moves in a club.

- Following a car wreck that's left Bo and his family injured and unconscious, all of the photographers descend upon the scene to get photos, with one slightly pulling down the top of Abby's shirt (mostly revealing just her bare chest beneath) to get a sexier shot.

- Rex blackmails a woman with a videotape he made of them having sex at another time. We hear her sexual sounds and briefly see (in the background of the shot) part of the monitor that partially shows her in the "doggie" style position with movement (but no nudity). That woman shows some cleavage as she gets that news from Rex.

- We see a wall neon display that shows the outline of a woman's body as she sits (with a prominent breast outline).

- Burton sarcastically tells a suspect that he'll be somebody's wife in a week (referring to being in prison and being raped by men).

SMOKING

- Wendell and Kevin each smoke once.

TENSE FAMILY SCENES

- Bo and Abby worry about their son who's in a coma following a car accident.

TOPICS TO TALK ABOUT

- Celebrity and all of the trappings (good and bad) that come along with it.

- Paparazzi.

- Rex's statement that his kind provides a window of reality into celebrities' lives.

- A scene featuring the paparazzi chasing after Bo and his family in their car for photos (which results in a bad accident) may remind some viewers of how Princess Di was killed in a similar situation.

- We hear that Rex was previously charged with attempted rape.

VIOLENCE

- Bo confronts Rex for taking photos of his son. He then grabs Rex's camera, throws it to the ground and then punches Rex in the face, knocking him to the ground.

- Rex and his team surround Bo and his family's car with vehicles and take rapid-fire photos of them. Bo tries to get away, but one bumps his car from behind. Bo eventually slams on the brakes, but an approaching truck smashes into the car at high speed, severely damaging the car. Bo and his family are all knocked out and we see the driver of the truck lying halfway onto the hood through the windshield (we later hear that he died of his injuries, while Abby had her spleen removed and Zach is left in a coma).

- We see a man blast out through a window and land on a fire escape. He then tries to elude Bo and ends up falling several stories through a glass atrium, but we then see that it's just a scene being filmed in Bo's next movie.

- A person pulls their truck out onto the highway, unaware that a motorcyclist is headed his way. The biker wipes out and goes over the edge of a cliff. The driver races over to help and finally grabs a hold of the man's hand as he dangles upside down from the edge. When the biker implies that the driver's life is now his (meaning he'll sue him or use his photos, etc.), the driver lets go and the biker falls to his death (we hear, but don't see the impact).

- When a driver retrieves a gun from his car after being pulled over, various cops riddle him with bullets, killing him (no blood).

- After she discovers him and Rex in her home, Wendell grabs and struggles with Abby, eventually pinning her to the floor before running off.

- It's implied that a man kills another man with a baseball bat (we see him holding it and later see the dead man lying on the floor with a little bit of blood around his head).

- Rex breaks a window to gain entry to Wendell's home.

- We see a man entering Bo and Abby's place with his gun drawn (as police try to race there). The man fires some shots into what turns out to be an empty bed. Bo then punches that man, kicks him in the face and then repeatedly pummels him on the floor (in a brutal fashion). He then kicks him again and holds a gun on him.

Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoa. I've never even heard of that.

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost)

I don't get the premise of Paparazzi AT ALL. From what I can tell, it's about a rugged-individualist Strong White Man mega-celeb whose family gets killed in some paparazzi-related Diana-style car-chase-wreck thingy, and then mega-celeb, like, what: hunts down and kills the paparazzi, Punisher-style? WTF? It'd be one thing if this was some kind of "it drove him mad" psychodrama thingy, but it's totally beyond me how this is supposed to come off as an action flick. Do the paparazzi have, like, guns and henchmen and shit? Is there some shadowy mega-paparazzo named "Esposito" who sits around with naked chicks and says surrogate-Mel will never get to him? Because I think we all know what paparazzi are actually like, and the thought of some dude busting into crappy LA-area apartments and knocking off fat defenseless middle-aged photographers is not only depressing but sort of grim and disturbing.

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"are interested in photography"

I have never seen a film because I'm "interested in photography." There was one movie about a photographer starring either Maggie G or Zooey D that I almost rented, though.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

On the other hand I will see any film featuring a guy named "Kevin Rosner."

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

if it had the same plot but was a musical called Pavarazzi then maybe i would see it. this goes for most movies, however.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I just can't get over the name "Bo Laramie" It sounds like cowboy porn.

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Yance, that would only work if the photographer was actually Luciano Pavarotti.

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Bo Laramie. Rex Harper. Wendell Stokes.
COWPOKE
http://cartoons-etc.com/cowboys.jpg

Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

those 'parental reviews' make me the world's groaniest white man.

paparazzi looks like shit but it's fun to say "paparazzi" in an m.madsen-style grimace/man-whisper, hence CLASSIC to talk about

jones (actual), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I really really really want to see that movie now.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I bet it's better than "Playtime."

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I just said that to give amateurist a heart attack.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

how could it not be better?

Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

- Burton sarcastically tells a suspect that he'll be somebody's wife in a week (referring to being in prison and being raped by men).

I hope the dialogue actually is, "You'll be somebody's wife in a week, meaning you'll be in prison being raped by men."

Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

haha!

it's interesting how much focus re: this movie is on gibson, who seems to just be the kind of celeb-executive-producer common on many projects. but people seem to really be reading a lot into his involvement with this paparazzi!

i love the part in the trailer when sizemore goes "everybody wants a..." (whistle whistle whistle as he does something weird with his glasses) "...little peek."

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

from the NYT review:

directed by Mr. Gibson's former hair stylist (yes, really) Paul Abascal

!

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

ok that changes everything

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

literally. it's back to square one for me.

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

that guy is living the los angeles dream.

bill stevens (bscrubbins), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 22:14 (twenty-one years ago)

back to the thread title... what does it mean that the angriest white man is jewish?

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

(probably nothing)

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 22:16 (twenty-one years ago)

So Paul what'shisname is the new Jon Peters, then.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

jon polito is the new paul sorvino?

s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i think you need to infilitrate the hollywood hair stylist scene s1ocki

xpost

i forget that kirk douglas and sons are jewish. kirk even had a "second bar mitzvah" a while ago. he also said he wouldn't mind schtumping his son's wife.

kirk douglas is my hero.

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

(fwiw, I always assumed those movies were meant the way Yancey interpreted them, but I've never seen either. yes I know it's two years too late to matter. carry on.)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe i could rock some "shampoo" styles, amateurist!

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

somewhat related: according to J Hoberman, Dirty Harry was hugely popular with poor minorities.

ryan (ryan), Thursday, 9 September 2004 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

are we reding the same book ryan? i believe we are.

it's not a very good book is it?

btw funny you should mention shampoo s1ocki cos i'm on the last chapter which is about shampoo w/warren beatty. do we like that film?

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Thursday, 9 September 2004 01:58 (twenty-one years ago)

i do, i think! i gotta see it again though

s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 9 September 2004 02:16 (twenty-one years ago)

oh i read it over the summer. why dont you like it? i thought it was ok--to be honest i think i learned a lot about the 60s because of it. so it was pretty enjoyable on a "i didnt know that before" level.

ryan (ryan), Thursday, 9 September 2004 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

five months pass...
Michael Douglas--smartest, richest, white man in Hollywood. And married to Catherine Eta-Beta-Zeta-Jones.

EComplex (EComplex), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:47 (twenty years ago)

four years pass...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movies/08/04/michael.douglas.son.drugs/index.html

kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 19:06 (sixteen years ago)

seems like something out of a movie

kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 19:07 (sixteen years ago)

LEGALIZE METH

velko, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 19:28 (sixteen years ago)

All About Michael Douglas • Methamphetamine

mayor jingleberries, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 19:54 (sixteen years ago)

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2339/michael20douglas20aaa.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/bapppp (Pleasant Plains), Tuesday, 4 August 2009 19:55 (sixteen years ago)

thought thread was gonna be about
http://www.einsiders.com/features/images/mk_douglas.jpg

velko, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 20:00 (sixteen years ago)

eleven months pass...

Solitary Man is good. I think I would have liked it a lot more if I didn't also see Crazy Heart, which is basically the same movie in a different setting.

surfer blood for oil (Hurting 2), Sunday, 11 July 2010 04:23 (fifteen years ago)

Solitary Man was quite good. Michael Douglas really has a knack for playing a real son of a bitch. this movie definitely had its fill of discomfort though, and didn't end neatly, which I feared it would.

San Te, Sunday, 11 July 2010 04:45 (fifteen years ago)

^^^ the not ending neatly I meant as a virtue

San Te, Sunday, 11 July 2010 04:46 (fifteen years ago)

some great writing in it

surfer blood for oil (Hurting 2), Sunday, 11 July 2010 05:07 (fifteen years ago)

one month passes...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/16/michael-douglas-cancer-th_n_683824.html

Zeno, Monday, 16 August 2010 22:56 (fifteen years ago)

Poor guy. I'm enormously fond of Michael Douglas. He comes across as a mensch in interviews.

Haunted Clocks For Sale (Dorianlynskey), Monday, 16 August 2010 23:25 (fifteen years ago)

five months pass...

http://thisisphotobomb.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/d458be17-948a-43e1-a7a1-b59171215a79.jpg

you think you're cool, but you read ick (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 17:16 (fifteen years ago)

The photo says, "Hi! I'm still alive!"

Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 17:17 (fifteen years ago)

how do you so totally misunderstand falling down?

normal_fantasy-unicorns (contenderizer), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 17:44 (fifteen years ago)

you mean at the start of the thread?

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 12:34 (fifteen years ago)

watched solitary man on netflix the other night. man that was bad. but his willingness to play horrible people is commendable, i guess?

scott seward, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 13:09 (fifteen years ago)

Falling Down the character is clearly sad and pathetic, no? If people have some other opinion, it's because they took the reviews too seriously, and who writes most film reviews? White males!

I liked Disclosure in a pulpy b-movie sense, like I enjoyed Basic Instinct. If you take them too literally, they are horribly sexist, but one has to ask why you would do that?

Possession of Stolen Goods (pharoah slanders) (u s steel), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 13:09 (fifteen years ago)

you mean at the start of the thread?

― Princess TamTam, Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:34 AM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah, the film initially invites us to sympathize with "D-Fens" Foster's impotent anger and estrangement from what america has become, but then questions and undermines our willingness to do this, to share his perceptions and responses. this seems obvious to me. it's a movie about the once-dominant white male retreating into grudgeful (and potentially dangerous) bewilderment in response to his diminished role in a world that no longer so clearly reflects his will and desires. i don't think it critiques this new world so much as Foster's angry and paranoid view of it.

normal_fantasy-unicorns (contenderizer), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 13:37 (fifteen years ago)

i'd guess that it's not so obvious since people still argue about this movie's POV all the time!

i just love the snowglobe scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-rD262adg8&t=3m25s

at 3:25 if it doesnt take u there

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 13:46 (fifteen years ago)

i do like the bewildered 'i'm the bad guy?' line at the end, most movies about this kind of character dont let them ask themselves that kind of question

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 13:47 (fifteen years ago)

i do like the bewildered 'i'm the bad guy?'

that's one of a few moments that makes the film's POV explicit, at least as i see it. it plays with the ways in which we decide who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are, and winds up sort of scolding us (and D-Fens himself) for our initial view of the situation and the character's role in it. which is a suspect gambit, of course, because we only see what the film lets us see, and didn't necessarily side with Foster during the opening act.

agree that it's open to interpretation, esp. wr2 the degraded quality of the america it sometimes seems to present.

normal_fantasy-unicorns (contenderizer), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 13:56 (fifteen years ago)

seems to be v much a mirror of the viewer's political persuasions, d-fens is definitely a libertarian hero and many of the reviews seemed to take this pov - he's just a guy trying to get home! (in violation of a restraining order.) he never hits first! (except for the korean shopkeeper.) he doesn't kill anyone! (except the genuine nazi bad guy, which is the only defensible 'except' and the only one the d-fens apologists tend to acknowledge).

nanoflymo (ledge), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 14:20 (fifteen years ago)

two years pass...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/jun/02/michael-douglas-oral-sex-cancer

the fuck are you on about buddy

goole, Monday, 3 June 2013 15:02 (twelve years ago)

a doctor writes

Neil S, Monday, 3 June 2013 15:10 (twelve years ago)

When asked whether he now regretted his years of smoking and drinking - common causes of oral cancer - the 68-year-old replied "No.

"Because without wanting to get too specific, this particular cancer is caused by HPV which actually comes about from cunnilingus," he said.

1) how specific could 'too specific' be? Naming the names?
2) Who needs privacy laws?

Mark G, Monday, 3 June 2013 19:38 (twelve years ago)

HPV comes from cunnilingus, good to know

they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Monday, 3 June 2013 19:40 (twelve years ago)

The dude is totally right. The move to give HPV vaccines to kids is mostly to forestal cervical cancer.

High-risk HPVs cause virtually all cervical cancers. They also cause most anal cancers and some vaginal, vulvar, penile, and oropharyngeal cancers.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 3 June 2013 20:07 (twelve years ago)

Cancer.gov:

The most reliable way to prevent infection with either a high-risk or a low-risk HPV is to avoid any skin-to-skin oral, anal, or genital contact with another person.

FYI.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 3 June 2013 20:08 (twelve years ago)

that sentence basically reads "you're going to get HPV"

goole, Monday, 3 June 2013 20:16 (twelve years ago)

Hope this wasn't a PR tactic promoting Candelabra to let us know in the clearest way possible that Douglas himself is not gay.

The End**^ (Eazy), Monday, 3 June 2013 20:18 (twelve years ago)

honestly it just reconfirms my original stance on Michael Douglas ie dude is hella creepy

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 3 June 2013 20:20 (twelve years ago)

Hope this wasn't a PR tactic promoting Candelabra to let us know in the clearest way possible that Douglas himself is not gay.

I was wondering about that, the timing of this interview is kind of sketchy.

...also i'm awesome (Nicole), Monday, 3 June 2013 20:26 (twelve years ago)

shoulda used a dental dam

⚓ (elmo argonaut), Monday, 3 June 2013 20:34 (twelve years ago)

http://wonderly.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Girls-HBO-episode-3-all-adventurous-women-do-7.jpg

Mr. Mojo Readin' (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 3 June 2013 21:01 (twelve years ago)

On the one hand, he's raised a serious health concern that we all should be aware of.

On the other, he's basically blaming CZJ and her <uncontroversial edit> for his cancer.

Mark G, Monday, 3 June 2013 21:44 (twelve years ago)

On the other, he's basically blaming CZJ and her <uncontroversial edit> for his cancer.

― Mark G, Monday, June 3, 2013 5:44 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark

he could've gotten it from brenda vaccaro

i wanna be a gabbneb baby (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 3 June 2013 22:42 (twelve years ago)

http://img2-2.timeinc.net/ew/img/review/010504/one_l.jpg

brimstead, Monday, 3 June 2013 22:45 (twelve years ago)

And now, his publicist is saying he a) didn't, and b) didn't say that.

Guardian interviewer fetching his audio recordings out..

Mark G, Tuesday, 4 June 2013 12:38 (twelve years ago)

eight years pass...

Ok The Game, it's pretty funny that all the chaos that happens to him throughout the movie is swiftly disregarded at the end and he just wants to shag that woman.

Ste, Friday, 25 February 2022 14:48 (three years ago)

That whole movie is ludicrous but impeccably made, which makes it work kind of like a good sleight of hand trick. Pulling a rabbit out of a hat is neat enough that no one ever questions why a rabbit would ever be in a hat to begin with.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 25 February 2022 14:52 (three years ago)

Lewis Carroll aside.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 25 February 2022 14:52 (three years ago)

It's certainly in my 'wtf lol but watchable' list

Ste, Friday, 25 February 2022 15:00 (three years ago)

https://i.imgur.com/UqnSmz4.jpg

A pensive MD reflects on his anger
From Black Rain

calstars, Friday, 25 February 2022 17:38 (three years ago)

Perfect Murder was a good, somewhat forgotten movie (loose remake of Dial M for Murdah)

sorry Mario, but our princess is in another butthole (Neanderthal), Friday, 25 February 2022 17:53 (three years ago)


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