The Bear on FX: aka HEARD! aka YES CHEF! aka Ketamine Gene Wilder cooks for u

Season 2 starts next week lets gooooo

Jeremy Allen White? Oh, you mean “Ketamine Gene Wilder”? pic.twitter.com/9aESu3OFnO

— Alan Vann (@Alan_Vann_) July 7, 2022

i loved this show so much i binged it twice tbh looking forward to S2

pumped for CHAOS MENU

I came so close to starting this thread a few months ago withe the title "Chicago Beef w/a Side of Wilco"

holy shit I just read "Ketamine Gene Wilder" and was like hmmm I think I know who that is and sure enough it was him

ketamine gene wilder is so hot and i would like him to cook for me

i dont think ive ever been as stressed by watching something as i was with that fucking printer

Good interview with Ebon Moss-Bachrach here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/arts/television/ebon-moss-bachrach-the-bear-season-2.html

Also how the fuck did I miss his partner of many years is photographer Yelena Yemchuk aka Billy Corgan's partner plus artist of choice for the Smashing Pumpkins in the late 90s?

Also given the thread title I do appreciate this:

He had an agent before he graduated and has been working steadily ever since, bouncing between theater, film and TV, studying performers like Gene Wilder, a castmate in Moss-Bachrach’s first onscreen appearance.

I watched one episode of this and immediately wondered if they ever stopped yelling at each other

spoiler: they don’t

i still occasionally do an online pickup order from a local restaurant that i used to frequent during COVID - whenever i do it now i still think of the order printer in The Bear & feel a lot of sympathy pangs for what restaurants must go through w that shit

I watched one episode of this and immediately wondered if they ever stopped yelling at each other

if you can’t stand the heat yelling get out of the kitchen tv show

jk

I watched one episode of this and immediately wondered if they ever stopped yelling at each other

I normally don't like programmes where all they do is shout (I've never managed to get through a whole episode of The Goldbergs, for example), and I don't like it when programmes add in obvious extra tension-building sounds, like smoke alarms or ringing phones or children crying, but after a couple of episodes I was as hooked on this programme as everyone else.

It's a weird show, some good and memorable scenes, but the non-kitchen chaos scenes are often a drag. And there are so many little things that didn't quite make sense to me -- how did the Xanax get into the Ecto Cooler? They played as unintentional but that seemed, uh, logistically improbable. Were they not doing take-out at all before, or just no online ordering? The time of day (and whether this place is doing lunch or dinner or both) is often confusing too.

its about as realistic as a dream sequence in a daytime soap, tbc, its just gritty fun with great performances and moments and direction

i think the micro-specifics of the show are what sold it for me, selling vintage levis for cash (stored in his oven bc he never cooks at home lol) the kitchen stuff like drinking out of the pint containers, the food he eats after a shift (doritos, coke)

like even when parts of story don’t always flesh out perfectly, it all feels so well-observed in terms of details & behaviour

to me, anyway

Ketamine Gene Wilder frequents the pizza place my nephew works and i just missed seeing him there by like 5 mins one time.

Just watched the first episode of season 2, so glad to have this show back. We had just finished season 1 of Succession, and it's wild to veer from a show where i don't give a shit about what happens to anyone and I want them all to fail to a show where I care about everyone and want them all to succeed.

Hell yah. Great music choices too. The Hornsby opener, transcendental blues by Steve Earle into New Noise to close it out.

if no one has seen Matty Matheson’s cooking videos I’d recommend because those are wild fun.

pure chaotic energy, highly recommend

in other news:

password is “speedboatmojito” all one word

just watched the first couple of episodes, going to savor the rest over the weekend. the never-ending chaos was anxiety-inducing in the first season, but the show's rhythms are kinda comforting now heh

the Marcus episode is a really lovely little break of pace

xpost "gofastboatsmojito" !!!!

oh fuck i knew i screwed it up lol thankyou

That made me laugh really hard. Of course that guy would have been a huge fan of the Miami Vice movie...

He and every other sensible person.

i'm a fiend for italian beef

In the Ever/Alinea-restaurant episode, I love how a) it's Ritchie who gets sent into that 3-Michelin star world and how he dials up the Chicago accent when presenting the deep-dish canapés. Also, having Olivia Coleman as the chef keeps it credibly as someone very privileged without having it be a dude at the top. And her warmth and unintimidating manner seemed very credible as the kind of person who is nearly impossible to reach one-on-one and with tough underlings, but face-to-face can be incredibly friendly.

What a series. Again.
PS I adored the little omelette scene. Just process and reaction; making something with love and seeing it received with love.

oh damn, I put this off after Star Trek last night because I thought it was week to week and wanted to save up episodes

i watched through ep 5 last night, hoping to finish today but ep 6 is weirdly over an hour long?

god help me i could look at ketamine gene wilder all day

I have managed to convince the husband to watch this, which means I will be going in on season one again before season two. A treat for me!

big fan of shortish episodes too

i have read elsewhere that S2 not quite as safdi-esque insane?

We've seen five of the new season so far, and while there is still plenty of hectic screaming, it's in service of something productive. The characters, acting, music cues, use of the city, all top notch.

made it up to half-way through the guest-star packed christmas episode last night.

i got up early & watched 2 eps while eating breakfast

brb going to copenhagen

the scenes w carmy & claire are so good, the way they talk about random shit & stare morse code to each other is v good

omg that “can’t hardly wait” needledrop

literally a …

(are you ready)

.. CHEFS KISS

youre welcome

THIS GODDAMN GORGEOUS BEAUTIFUL SHOW WTF WTF

#gofastboatsmojitos obviously unassailable but the stuff with Carmy and the alarm is also A+++.

i have read elsewhere that S2 not quite as safdi-esque insane?

NCIS: Lake Michigan

well buckle up for the christmas episode fuckos

Haha was gonna say….

real talk

the family stuff at the heart of this is so real.

like, i don’t even have a 10th of that level of craziness in my own family, i don’t know chicago from shit, etc etc

but the way when you have a family w ~history~ to a level that you are a telepathic air traffic controller waving each other away from the hazards

the way when you visit after being away that at it’s worst the house itself is like a vice that is constantly squeezing you down to your smallest denominator… the way you are always, ALWAYS the person you were when you were 10, the way you start feeling like you’re 10 just being around it too long
… the way you expand & become alive when you go away and you contract & sort of die a little when you return…
the way the love is so crystallized & so real but so small you can hold it; the way it lifts you up so quickly but the way all that bad is just always there, hanging, unsaid, in the air like a poison gas that only becomes toxic if you acknowledge it

sorry tl:dr

this christmas episode really got me feeling some type of way

ok i finished the series & christ
anyone who says this season is more laid back can come tell me why i’m STILL crying

guys

this show should come with meds that final episode was like fuckin psychological kidney punches

floored by the scene in FORKS where they drop Diamond Diary by Tangerine Dream (in Hi-Fi) after only ever hearing it in the movie Thief. Fucking bravo

yeah the music this season was consistently kinda perfect

not margie’s candies putting up a “if you’re here cuz you just watched the bear, fuck off” sign

— ashley ray is ON TOUR (@theashleyray) June 25, 2023

idgi, did Margie's put up a sign?

that sundae looked fucking incredible

The editing on this series is impeccable. How you do it, folks.

I love this show so much, "ketamine GW" is jokes. But there's a lot of Philip Glass in there too, esp circa Chuck Close's 1969 portrait.

Margie's is an institution, and like many institutions, pretty unremarkable, except for the storied space/seashell sundae dishes. One of the restaurant cameos from the first half of the new season, Lao Peng You, I was actually just at a week or so ago; it's one of the few places to get great Chinese DUMPLINGS! on the north side. Another, Avec, I haven't been to in eons, but it's a linchpin of Chicago casual fine dining, kind of Mediterranean food served in a communal setting, from Paul Kahan's One Off Hospitality group. Another of his places is Publican, whose smaller outpost appeared in an episode this season; their meat guy, Rob Levitt, used to run a place called Butcher & Larder (among other gigs) before getting recruited to Publican.

Anyway, this show really seems to get Chicago, and so far there have been a ton of details it didn't need to get right that it did get right. For example, in an exterior shot montage of the two chefs going back to culinary school, I commented that they were really close to Kendall College, and ... that's where they end up!

When we were watching last I asked my wife if she thought the actor that plays Carm's sister was pregnant in real life, and that they wrote it into the show. She was, like, nah, but I was right! Apparently, she is also the daughter of Chris Elliott. And used to be on SNL?

Man, the whole cast is just perfect, including cameos and one-offs.

yeah otm

also lovvvvved Lisa this season, that episode where she busted out the karaoke was like WOWEEWOW
also borrowing the knife from Carm etc <3

So I'm only a few episodes into the new season but something that I still wonder about is Carmy's stress dream from from first season. What are the numbers that he held out (and that Kevin McHale tries to sabotage him on)?

Man, maybe I spoke too soon, that Christmas episode was full on Safdie. And clearly every actor wants a piece of The Bear. And as always, excellent music cues!

Kinda pissed that the only piece of music that wasn't identified — artist and title — in the subtitles for the Copenhagen episode was the instrumental jazz piece. I would happily have looked up whoever that was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy-v-FgiUD8

iirc

Thanks!

Doing my Monday email admin while listening to 'Scenes From the Southside', the first time I've listened to this record since maybe 1989. Opening the season with 'The Show Goes On' was kinda perfect.

cool little edit

Sydney Adamu the bear edit #thebear #TheBearFX ayo edebiri cook food omelet natalie sugar berzatto carmysyd sydcarmy hulu carmy syd cooking edit pic.twitter.com/WRW7SrKr4s

— villain (@villain_phoenix) June 26, 2023

what a great follow up season!

I thought it was week to week and wanted to save up episodes

I feel like it might benefit from this format though idk

jamie lee curtis barely appearing but just knocking it out of the park

her perf is so good, so fucking gut wrenching… stresses me out to think of where you have to go mentally as an actor to get ~there~

Yeah, just watched the Christmas episode and holy fuck. Didn't really like Odenkirk's or Mulaney's performances, but Curtis was incredible, an absolute ticking bomb from the first time we saw her.

idk i liked Mulaney & Odenkirk as outsiders - i think their performances fit those roles

also odenkirk facing off w mike at the dinner table felt like a+ usage of that vein of anger odenkirk always carries but often suppresses

It's funny, Curtis has always been around but never really been known for her (especially not dramatic) acting. And then she wins an Oscar, and suddenly, poof ... here's your acting!

is that true though? her perf in halloween is pretty iconic

For sure. But I think the movie itself is more iconic than her performance was. Not that there was anything wrong with her performance, it set in motion a long professional acting career, which is an achievement in and of itself, no matter who her parents were. Seeing her in this, though, it makes me wonder if in the end it was just a matter of rarely getting the right roles. For whatever reason.

Man, I just saw the Richie episode, and it made me weepy. You can do it, Richie!

Yo which one of yall is JAW?

https://uproxx.com/tv/fans-think-jeremy-allen-white-gene-wilder-related/

For sure. But I think the movie itself is more iconic than her performance was. Not that there was anything wrong with her performance, it set in motion a long professional acting career, which is an achievement in and of itself, no matter who her parents were. Seeing her in this, though, it makes me wonder if in the end it was just a matter of rarely getting the right roles. For whatever reason.

Man, I just saw the Richie episode, and it made me weepy. You can do it, Richie!

I rewatched that one after the finale bc I loved it so

Richie episode was such a great balm after the intensity of the xmas episode, and so great seeing him find his place in light of all the extra baggage the xmas episode revealed

When the Thief music kicked in in the Richie episode I laughed out loud.

Best cues ever. When the Hunters & Collectors song started I lost my shit.

yeah that was pretty fucking good

i fell out over Pearl Jam’s “Come Back” too

There's more than one Fak?

:D

yep! and he has mad Kohls cash

I love this show and everyone in it so much, I want 4 more seasons.

I'm trying not to binge it because I don't wish it to end, and was so happy when I cued up the Xmas one and saw it was double length.

Music cues have been amazing yes, with the exception of that 'Holiday Road' shite.

Funny how Muleany has gone from looking all fresh-faced to looking kinda sleazy nowadays, I'm not so well up on his film/tv career (if there even is one), but I wonder if he'll get more serious parts as he gets older.

his latest standup special is pretty fuckin raw

Just once, I’d like to see an American show/film with someone in recovery who doesn’t go to an AA/NA meeting and uses an alternative like CBT

The Al-Anon scenes in S1 were more effective than the one in this season, where he says he's a chef opening a restaurant, which are the kind of specific details people avoid revealing in meetings.

The really naturalistic, almost documentary-like scenes really put me in mind of another show and it's really bugging me. I think it could be Treme, but I'm not sure, I like it anyhow.

Love this show but what they did to that deep dish is a crime.

Also absolutely relieved that the Copenhagen stuff wasn't about demeaning Marcus, which other shows would absolutely go for.

copenhagen was so good; the vibes were almost therapeutic

Very smart to bookend episode 6 with the two sweetest episodes of the series

Season finale was amazing. Jamie Lee Curtis's one scene could have been too much but it was perfect. And the evolution of Richie is absolutely the story of the season.

Also re: the 3-star restaurant's "supplements," are they trying to be Harvard or something?

I love how in the finale even Pete gets his moment to be more than just a punchline. What a great show.

Chocolate-covered banana got me right in the feels

the freezer door was a pretty incredible running Chekhov's gun. how Carmy has the repairman guy's number ready to dial but got too distracted and didn't actually dial it, a subtle detail but one I knew was gonna pop up in the finale.

and the way they shot the Carmy/Richie exchange as a cross-section, bisected by the door

so fucking great

btw that WAS MY BIG NIGHTMARE when I worked in restaurants. I went inside a freezer once and had difficulty re-opening it and the terror I felt for three seconds was palpable. then I pushed a little harder and got out

The charred cheese crust is the best part of Pequod's Pizza, you fancy idiot chef.

xpost oh totally! i worked at KFC as teen and was super-paranoid about getting stuck in the walk-in

I went into the walk-in a lot at Arby's to steal food mostly. made myself rogue sandwiches and took them back there to eat secretly

Robert Townsend and Ayo Edibiri's scenes get me in the heart

This show still has its flaws (mostly when it's trying to do, like, sentimental or serious two character scenes) but I'm enjoying s2 more so far. The Xmas episode is truly fucked...most of the guest actors were obviously going to bring it, but I was surprised by how much I liked Mulaney here.

Who'd've thunk before watching season 2 that we'd all be siding with Richie over Carm?!

I love how they literally "fridge" Carm.

Shout out to the beautiful visuals - food, Chicago, Copenhagen, the faces. Loved that forks, fridge handles, and gas lines played such key roles. What a show.

I really appreciated the way they balanced off the chaotic episodes with the quiet, more thoughtful ones. liked this take too

One more thing I adored in THE BEAR is the way it quietly reinforces, over and over, that what we think of as “skills” and “talents” are actually things someone else has taken time to teach us.

— Jessica Ellis (@baddestmamajama) July 3, 2023

From Carmy and Syd’s “I’m sorry” gesture to Marcus learning to quenelle, the whole season is a tribute to how we are a product of what we’re taught - good and bad - and how much good teaching can reshape our lives. It’s a screed against the idea of a self-made, lone genius.

— Jessica Ellis (@baddestmamajama) July 3, 2023

my one complaint is that I wished that they had spent a bit more time on developing Claire as a character - didn’t really love the portrayal of her as carmy’s perfect long lost crush, felt a bit manic pixie dream-ish

^agree. Great on screen chemistry between Carmy and Claire but her character did have a whiff of manic pixie dream girl. i wonder if they will do more with her story in S3.

my one complaint is that I wished that they had spent a bit more time on developing Claire as a character - didn’t really love the portrayal of her as carmy’s perfect long lost crush, felt a bit manic pixie dream-ish

Particularly since the opportunity to draw parallels between running a manic kitchen and being an ER doctor was right there.

yeah they had one conversation about it but that was it

kinda feel that she wouldn’t have been so quick to leave him after hearing the fridge rant either, I mean seems like part of the reason she’s attracted to him is because he IS a chaotic mess, who has already tried to push her away before. at least call him out on his obvious bullshit or something

well, the season is ending on kind of a 'cliffhanger' in that regard, her initial reaction might not be a permanent one? people often get hurt, walk away upset, and then see things differently when they've had a little time apart from it.

plus it was a pretty hurtful thing to hear - basically him 'blaming' her for taking his eyes off of the ball, though in more of an implied sense.

yeah plus it did set up that great scene with Richie afterwards, so am not that mad. Like tnmp said, I also hope they flesh her character out more in s3

Me too!

their chemistry is crazy-good
when they’re not talking the way they look at each other is amazing

Can't believe Richie was the bellhop in Royal Tenenbaums

https://i.ibb.co/12349C2/54d1bd7df2c04-esq-02-double-breasted-royal-tenenbaums-0913-mdn-27447800.jpg

I read an interview with Claire's actor and she made it sound like S2 was kind of a one-off? I saw her resume and she keeps pretty busy.

xpost holy shit

That fridge scene, I hope it's not a tragic end to their affair, because it serves the perfect show-don't-tell realization that Carm *can* have it both ways, or can at least try. Jimmy warns him not to take his eyes off the prize, as it were, but here he is, literally locked away, and the world doesn't end without him.

This is a good show but I keep thinking that the positive reception has a lot to do with how bad most other shows are rn.

what if…hear me out… what if a good thing is just good

"better than everything else" seems like a good reason for praise IMO

show is great on its own merits.

Jordan I have totally thought about this as a breath of cold Chicago air after too much weightless Netflix dreck

If only more shows could be even half as good as this one in any era of TV history. It's amazing.

It's ok! Pretty, pretty good, even!

I’ve seen the last episode twice and on second viewing I didn’t think that what Carmy said was actually so bad that it would be a relationship killer, at least not with anyone who had a good bead in his neuroses which I feel like Claire did. We’ll see.

I can't believe he's still in the freezer

And like they only came back to the freezer to yell at him

Unnecessary

lol did they ever figure out the name of the fridge guy? Was it Tony Toni Tone?

Tina had another name beginning with a T entirely. Not a shortform of Anthony at all.

Think it was Tony, Tim, Terry and something else?

was there a Tom in there. Think there was a somewhat soundalike so with the o vowel.

no an Oakland soul in site

wasn’t it Carmy thought Tony was the fridge guy but then Tina said nah dude the fridge guy is Terry

something like that

^yes that is correct

I think fridge thing goes on for a while maybe even last couple of episodes so everybody has a different take on what his name is.

like its been talked about for a while that it needs to be done and Carmy needs to ring him and sort it out so the events in this episode are just a culmination of his not getting that done. & if it isn't quite everybody that has a different take it seems pretty close to

this show is definitely better than average but i would not say it is (imo) "great"
* i find the music direction mawkish tbh. why spend all that money on popular songs for your teevee show? idgi and it takes me out of the story
* unnecessary romance -- the best part of S1 was 0 romance whatsoever
* I love the workplace stuff and really enjoyed the Richie ep where he understood what makes people dedicated to service. i feel that 100%
* the Christmas ep reminded me of my friend's mom who also used to drink (a lot) while she cooked and once did exactly what the mom in the show did w her car

I LOVE Tina. Also Syd and Marcus but Tina is easily my fave. Loved the scenes where Syd goes around eating everything in the city. I think I only have a couple of eps left in S2. Also love the short runtime. I watch it when I get home from work. At a restaurant.

When Tina smiles after being offered a chance at a new job? <3 <3 <3

when she sings karaoke? <3 <3 <3

Syd's food crawl was super melancholic for me!
All of the stuff with Tina and the knife hit a sentimental sweet spot too.

The number one thing it has going for it that makes it great, imo, is that every character can sustain an episode on their own. Again, the season's payoff was literally locking the ostensible star in a room and letting everyone else run things. But beyond that, the acting, writing and direction is impeccable, so if that's not enough to make a show great (which is not to say perfect), then what is?

The music to me actually brings me into the show, because by and large they're *not* particularly popular songs, but they are by artists that people listen to (or tie in thematically). And when they do drop in the pricey huge pop hit, its context is a personal and emotional character payoff.

* i find the music direction mawkish tbh. why spend all that money on popular songs for your teevee show? idgi and it takes me out of the story

Agree with this 100%. There were like 2 music cues the entire season that I actually liked (when Richie wakes up to the Tangerine Dream music from Thief and the Ethiopian jazz when Marcus was in Copenhagen), but 90% of them were either sad middle aged man indie ballads or some record-collector bullshit where I could practically feel some asshole's elbow in my ribs — "Hey, you like that? [cue 45 minutes of Discogs trivia delivered through a cloud of death breath and BO]". Also, not every scene needs to have a goddamn song playing through it.

I love everything about this show except the music.

Next season I want Uncle Jimmy to get his own whole episode just so we can figure out exactly what kind of gangster he is.

glad to see other people bothered by the music cues. they are simply too loud IMO.

when she sings karaoke? <3 <3 <3

― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Thursday, July 6, 2023 11:40 AM bookmarkflaglink

I loved that. admittedly got anxious when she showed up because a lot of 'high stakes' TV has gotten to where they cram in unnecessary conflict at every juncture, so I worried that Lisa's co-workers were going to clown her singing or something, so was very happy to see the heartwarming reaction she got to her song.

y'all are nuts, I love the music cues

https://uproxx.com/indie/the-bear-season-two-soundtrack-christopher-storer-josh-senior-interview/

Yeah idk, it just feels like there's a lot of padding around the good and more unique stuff in this show. The dialogue in the Carmy/Claire scenes and some of the Al-Anon monologues is kinda trite, and the montages of people ordering and eating food at restaurants and cafes is nice but could be out of any food/travel show (albeit with more tasteful music here). I really enjoyed the Copenhagen episode, but the random slice of life bits (like the injured cyclist) felt plucked out of other shows like High Maintenance and Atlanta.

I'm enjoying it for sure, just wouldn't describe it as this totally amazing show that everyone needs to watch.

The music feels pandery to me and I strongly dislike being pandered to by someone whose expertise and breadth of knowledge is no better than my own. This might be my inner asshole speaking but she is loud.
It really does take me out of the show, and agree that not every scene needs music. I applaud the support of original soundtrack music vs the mixtape approach.

Idk about objectively “great” but for me if they had thought more expansively/creatively about the music I’d be more likely to personally consider it great.

One of the issues I had with the music in S1 is that it seemed to lean too much on stuff like Wilco and Sufjan Stevens, which bothered me as a Chicagoan because I felt like it was trying to be representative of the city, even though it didn't seem to be connected to what the characters might be into. For the same reason, I also found the audio cameo from Lin Brehmer -- beloved DJ for a local triple-A station -- kind of cringey. There were some odd choices early in S2 (Fine Young Cannibals? Counting Crows?) but I feel like it mostly improved as the season went on.

Way too much REM, but I enjoyed Syd's day off scouting food joints to some lovely mid/late Durutti Column tune and a Martin Rev cue that popped up somewhere iirc.

Way too much REM

rong

record-collector bullshit where I could practically feel some asshole's elbow in my ribs — "Hey, you like that? [cue 45 minutes of Discogs trivia delivered through a cloud of death breath and BO]"

i thought this board was a safe space

mawkishness of the soundtrack was precisely of a piece with the mawkishness many other aspects of the show. quality was all over the place, xmas dinner and richie episode ruled, other parts were like idk gilmore girls but restaurant workers

Nah, I like REM, but I don't need to hear Strange Currencies three times in one season for no real reason.

mawkishness of the soundtrack was precisely of a piece with the mawkishness many other aspects of the show. quality was all over the place, xmas dinner and richie episode ruled, other parts were like idk gilmore girls but restaurant workers

― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Thursday, 6 July 2023 23:58 (one minute ago) link

hard agree

richie ep was a cool anime, john mulaney was real good

the bear would be really funny w/ the gilmore girls soundtrack tho

My John Mayer tolerance is much higher than many have, but the bouncy "Last Train Home" ending an S1 episode felt corny especially, as others say of the cues, turned up so loudly.

But still, I had never heard "Oh My Heart" before S1 and now it's one of my favorite R.E.M. songs (have always been a passive listener more than a big fan).

i generally think they do a pretty good job with music on this show but they do way too much of it

Honestly the music barely registers with me, negatively or positively, and usually it's just, "Hey, that sounds like Michael Stipe."

i enjoy the music in the show - especially the music this season compared to s1 which was def v wilco-heavy as noted upthrwad

but also obv its general music preferences, how you prefer to watch things with or w out musuc and what kind

i’m a fan of popular music needledrops, i like when songs i know & enjoy end up in shows, like REM or Replacements or a random late-period Pearl Jam song. But also i absorb a lot of dadrock classic rock normcore music & i regularly think of it in terms of soundtracks, constantly music-supervising my own mental soundtrack i guess idk not that that makes me special lol tl dr

xp same here, Leee!

the music doesn’t really jump out at me, it’s more of a “hey I kind of recognize that” 90% of the time and I feel like it’s almost used as… comfort food?

Finished s2, this is such a weird show. Obviously there's a lot to like, but half the time it feels like watching a WB show. When there's not kitchen yelling happening, it's often cloyingly sentimental with really corny dialogue (just shot in a gritty hand-held close-up that makes it feel arty).

Also can't count how many times they did this non-sequitur dialogue tic:

Person A: "This really important restaurant thing needs to happen, if we don't take care of it we're fucked."

Person B: "Did you know I have a girlfriend?" or "What was your relationship with your mother like?"

So much Eddie Vedder too, definitely felt the music drops got cornier near the end.

The chef in Denmark is unnervingly good looking.

Definitely a glow-up from Midsommar.

someone tell those girls they're cookin stupid

otm

had to do a double take when i saw whose review this is. she’s so real for this pic.twitter.com/n5GzLIamuB

— c (@toodamnbright) July 12, 2023

lol
she rules

She's a writer/producer on "What We Do In The Shadows," "Big Mouth" and "Dickinson," isn't she? Must be exhausting to be on strike with so many unions.

The Durutti Column track on episode 3 of season 2 was a jam! How have I never heard Fidelity before... It's like something I wish Slowdive made after Souvlaki

Didn't think this season quite lived up to the first - so many separate episodes and less time with the crew together it was less cohesive. Some of the music cues were overblown (literally, in the mix) but mostly inoffensive.

simultaneously thinking it needed 3-5 more episodes vs. it didn't really need to exist at all because the first season worked so well as a self-contained narrative

Watched the last two episodes last night, and I was consistently amused over this season by how much flak Carmy takes from himself and Sydney over allowing himself to get into a relationship when he has so many people depending on him and so much important shit going on. Meanwhile Claire is being a fucking Chicago ER doctor and still managing to get places on time and get dolled up for her boyfriend's restaurant opening.

Anyway, I loved it, it was all fantastic.

It's funny how we have so many threads about bears that it's easier to search for this one using "ketamine".

lol

It's funny how we have so many threads about bears that it's easier to search for this one using "ketamine".

new borad description

Meanwhile Claire is being a fucking Chicago ER doctor and still managing to get places on time and get dolled up for her boyfriend's restaurant opening.

Yeah, I thought something similar. Funny that she wasn't as high-strung or distracted by her job as he was.

I think that was all intentional, wasn't it? We see everything from Carm's all-in martyr perspective, more or less, but Claire exists to show that there is another way, it is possible to balance a high stress job and life.

Yes, I suppose it must be an intentional comparison. Obviously Claire's profession has some extremely high bars to entry, and you don't get to the point where you are an actual ER doctor unless you've proved that you can handle stress. Whereas we've seen in the show (and some of us have probably a million stories from our real lives) that it doesn't take much to get your foot in the door of food service, and you can be all kinds of fuck-up and still keep making progress. As long as the final decisions are someone else's, you can hide your fuck-upedness for a very long time, too.

Definitely intentional, there were a couple different moments where direct comparisons to their professions were made and where they acknowledged they were both extremely talented, hard working people, but of course, leave it to Carmy, right at his moment of triumph, to utterly tank the relationship despite all his friends constantly reminding him how lucky he is to be with Claire. The Christmas episode makes it clear that they've all experienced some considerable emotional growth in the ensuing years, but Carmy remains closed off and confused about how to relate to other human beings.

Also, am I the only person who finds it strange that Carmy and family refer to each other as Bear, but everyone also calls her Clair Bear. I know that's also intentional, but it's just weird to me.

We finished S2 finally and basically liked it. Mostly for the characters and performances, a lot of the plot points were very "do you see" — especially the last episode, where the guy who's not good at opening up and letting people in spends the whole time literally locked in cooler.

It goes into the burgeoning category I call Therapy Drama — also including Ted Lasso, EEAAO, others I'm not thinking of right now — where the plot is basically "flawed people learn how to process their traumas and forgive themselves/each other."

shout out to Brockmire and You're The Worst for doing the flawed people trauma thing but they just remain terrible people

ketamine say hi to me

xpost while Brockmire himself remained very flawed, the character and the show were hilarious and dark. not really the vibe the bear is going for even if they put themselves in the comedy category.

Also, am I the only person who finds it strange that Carmy and family refer to each other as Bear, but everyone also calls her Clair Bear. I know that's also intentional, but it's just weird to me.

― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, August 2, 2023 1:35 PM

I thought it was sort of cute. But also he really shouldn't be so surprised that for a million dollars she remembers that it is also the name of the restaurant.

What I found confusing and possibly stilted were characters calling one another "cousin" frequently. Ok, for Richie it makes sense. But normally I see this as signposting to the audience that someone is related to someone somehow (does anyone address their sibling as "brother" or "sister" IRL?) but I just couldn't tell if this is a real thing people are supposed to do.

shout out to Brockmire and You're The Worst for doing the flawed people trauma thing but they just remain terrible people

Hey, who knows, maybe everyone on The Bear will stay their version of terrible. It's far from over yet.

especially the last episode, where the guy who's not good at opening up and letting people in spends the whole time literally locked in cooler.

I chose to find this funny instead of annoying, but you're fundamentally right. I don't think another show could have got away with it even a little bit.

It also turns out that the Clark Kent disguise would work on my husband, since he recognized neither Joel McHale nor John Mulaney without prompting, because they were out of context and wearing glasses.

What I found confusing and possibly stilted were characters calling one another "cousin" frequently. Ok, for Richie it makes sense. But normally I see this as signposting to the audience that someone is related to someone somehow (does anyone address their sibling as "brother" or "sister" IRL?) but I just couldn't tell if this is a real thing people are supposed to do.

I read it as a way of saying "family, or close enough." Maybe not a way "real" people talk but the way these people talk.

where the guy who's not good at opening up and letting people in spends the whole time literally locked in cooler.

the implausibility of them leaving him there and not even giving him updates bothered me

the writers breezily don't worry about implausible plot points (like the rich relative being okay with all the kids at his birthday party getting drugged)

and i'm like, maybe you should worry more

Also I think it's signposting the fraught nature of Carmy and Sugar's family life, and particularly Carm's fitful attempts at creating a better found family at work that in some ways fails because Richie is that thread that the work fam with the fam fam.

They didn’t just leave him in there, they had to get a guy to come ruin the walk-in with a Sawzall to get him out.

They were so deep in the weeds at that point he probably would have killed someone for coming over to update him instead of getting food out.

"WHY ARE YOU FUCKING ME RIGHT NOW? DON'T SAVE ME, SAVE THE FOOD!"

As someone who owns and manages restaurants/bars/clubs I have a love/hate relation with this series. It feels like they’re constantly drowning on a glass of water. Granted I’m not on michelin star levels but neither have them (atm) and I’ve been on situations where I have to manage 1000 drunk patrons in one night while also managing a to go bar that sells 3000 drinks in one day with 80 employees and it’s been super stressful but it’s nowhere the shitshow that I see here.

The amount of insane stress is way too histrionic is what I mean.

At the same time it feels way too real but it feels like taking the “bottleneck” moment of the night and amplifying it times 10.

Also I don’t understand the economics behind it, they have like 14 tables in there and 20 people working - apparently 12 hours a day - I know it’s to heighten drama but it feels overcooked.

Like per example: on season 1 making the meat sandwiches or whatever are a super time consuming thing to make and yet on season 2 they are apparently still selling them during the day and it’s brushed off as the side business that anyone can fill

Not sure I’d really be down with a show about a well run service, I mean the point is that these folks create their own drama.

I do like it whenever they visit somewhere that is well run, though. It's a nice contrast. It reminds me of the episode of Happy Endings where one of them starts dating someone who has a group of normal friends, not sitcom friends, and they just can't handle how ordinary and helpful and undramatic the other group is.

Idk season 2 worked better for me precisely because it expanded outside the dramatically stressful joint. The best ones were the family reunion, and the marcus and cousin focused episodes.

Season 1 is cool but it kept making me anxious. Like get your shit together, there’s like 10 of you and you’re selling fucking meat sandwiches

I’m sure they’re amazing sandwiches and all but this dude comes from a three michelin star restaurant and can’t handle a meat sandwich joint?

But yeah it’s true if the drama wasn’t as exaggerated there wouldn’t be a show… still those episodes were a nice change of pace and an interesting addition… the family reunion one did feel organically stressful and the other two were a much needed sort of wholesome break.

Thought this was a great, imperfect season. The sidequests and flashbacks were all amazing but they didn't quite leave enough space to see the restaurant/team come together - it went very quickly from "the roof is falling in" to "there's staff and a menu and it's ropey but basically there".

I feel it's important to point out that Claire is Triple-A from Booksmart.

Thought the season started slow, and the Safdiesque yelling scenes in episode 6 went on a little long for my taste, but I still left the final episode feeling blown away by the season. beautiful acting and character moments, gorgeous imagery, but even some of the stuff I see criticized upthread like the music, the sentimentality... it all just worked for me. I think this show has a lot in common with Halt and Catch Fire, which is probably in my top 5 drama shows: flawed people building something amazing together

I wouldn't have thought to compare this to H&CF since they're stylistically worlds apart, but that makes a lot of sense actually.

i hadn’t thought of the two shows in contrast like that but yeah, that’s a great comparison

I do feel that S2 felt a little less inspired, more contrived and "TV-like" than S1, but still a fantastic show.

season 2, episode 7 - special episode. honestly shocked by how much i grew to care for richie, after wishing that i was the one who stabbed him in season one

What I love about the richie and the Copenhagen episodes is that they were just shamelessly positive in a way that seems so rare these days. I mean yeah the show is corny and it has plenty of episodes filled with cringe worthy moments of humiliation or whatever, but those were just two lovely episodes showing dedication, craft, education etc. Kept waiting for some other shoe to drop in those and they never did.

otm

Richie's transformation a bit unbelievable - he was only there a week, right? But it was impossible not to cheer for his change. at the beginning of the season I kept thinking that his days at a high-end restaurant would be numbered. as entertaining and dramatic as the group dynamics in this show are, I loved all three of those "solo" episodes (Sydney's eating tour, Copenhagen, forks)

I agree that Richie's turn does seem a little abrupt, but its grounded in aspects of his character that were always there, and the finality of his separation from his ex provides a relatable jump start. He realizes that going on the way he has is untenable. I found it believable enough.

They physically converted a Chicago takeout place into a theoretically Michelin-quality dining experience in three months, way more unbelievable than Richie's personal growth IMO.

Even with being able to pay off inspectors, I spent too many days sitting in my truck waiting for a fire inspector to show up right at 4:45 to believe that.

Nothing in this show was more unbelievable than the hours the shop was open in season 1.

I want a show which is just the Copenhagen episode, repackaged each week with Marcus and dreamy boy shooting the shit on the daily news, intermixed with close ups of the desert making process in low blue lighting. Just a treat to look at.

I found Claire’s continuous resting “I’m in love with you and I know how pretty I am” face used in literally EVERY SHOT she was in a bit much. Like there has to be some other emotion you possess other than loving desire? Someone tell me I’m not just projecting here pls

Some of us are cursed with Resting Adoration Face, don't be a hater.

she was shot like the love interest in a 2012-ish indie romantic comedy, mumblecore after they moved up from camcorders

Lol otm. I felt like I was inadvertently watching that zoey daschunhouse (or whatever the hell her name is) and other starlight indie boy In the elevator talking about the shins or the smiths or whatever movie: like come on, I went my whole life trying to avoid this gunk and you hoist it upon me unawares in the middle of my safdie cooking show! Needed a trigger warning

I haven’t finished S2 yet, have the finale to watch tonight

The family episode was incendiary. The previous season’s stressful 20 minute episode was amazing. Also: this show makes absolutely no sense on any level

Show idea: the bear prequel where all the kids are in primary school together and bob odenkirk is the teacher trying to somehow get control of the classroom. Mikey and richie are screaming over each other about who farted, sugar is sobbing in the corner saying she’s never farted in her life, Carmy is desperately staring at Clair, trying to communicate with his eyes that even though he was the one that farted, it’s only because of his family and he can’t help it and he’ll change but he won’t. Meanwhile odenkirk is screaming over all of them, daring Mikey to fart again and see what happens (he will poop his pants)

the bear in the big blue (sad kind) house

The Cubs: A The Bear Origin Story

I like Zooey Deschanel a lot and I also disliked 100 Days of Summer. But I like her for She & Him and being on Rupaul's Drag Race and being thrifty with money when her divorce filings were made public and a lot of other stuff.

I asked my husband if he liked the Claire character. He said he wanted to, but he was told so much by the show that he wasn't supposed to like the Claire character that he guesses he doesn't like Claire. I felt it too. Odd choice.

I felt like the show was very pro Claire and that the message was that Carmy was a fool for not taking their relationship more seriously.

But have you asked Cicero and the Copenhagen ghost cat what they think of Claire?

They nodded toward "Carmy's shirking by hanging out with her," frustrating Sydney but they didn't really spend enough time on Sydney/Carmy friction to make it stick either way. (And even then she's not the bad guy.)

All tied into the unrealistic buildout timeline - if he'd promised Uncle Jimmy to be open in four months he could have had a couple of days to properly fall in love.

Uncle Jimmy pressuring Carmy to drop her seemed like a symbol of his corrupt influence over the entire venture

the discussion of claire kinda overlooks carmy as the manic depressive dream tattoo chef, rough around the edges but sensitive, abusive but only up to a point, just needs to be softened slightly to be perfect.

That plus a shit ton of therapy

those dreamy therapy monologues

I want to give you an award for “manic depressive dream tattoo chef”, omar

lmao that is top shelf omar shit <3

yeah i feel like claire isn’t framed as anything exactly, like she is to us a normal woman person - the disconnect is how she’s framed by the family/“cousins” & kinda carmy

The Thom Browne apron felt like a commercial — not sure someone in that world would care much about that brand, if they recognized it at all. Similar to Marcus in S1 wearing an Aime Leon Doré-branded shirt. (And I loved the show overall — those moments just didn’t work for me.)

Finale didn’t work for me, mostly because I have high expectations I guess. Food looked good tho!

What was “Terry’s” restaurant btw? Whiney ate there iirc? The most stars I’ve consumed was two at Corton over a decade ago

It was shot at Ever, which opened in 2021 and is aiming for three stars (currently has two, and is owned/operated by a team that created closed three-star Grace). The Denmark kitchen scenes were also filmed in Ever’s pastry kitchen.

Story-wise, it’s modeled on Alinea: been open 12 years, named World’s Best Restaurant on the Top 50 list. Having Olivia Coleman as Terry was such a good choice, rather than someone who looks like Thomas Keller, Eric Ripert, Grant Achatz, etc.

god that was such great casting

After her dizzying array of parts I am lowkey certain that you could drop Colman into literally any role and she would quietly own it. She could do Hitler and I'd buy it.

Finale also didn’t work for me, and also because I had high expectations (I blame certain posts in this thread). Episodes 4-7 the real golden run of this season

Yeah I would pay-subscribe to watch Isabella Rossellini and Olivia Colman in a video series of just them peeling veg and chatting

Very briefly scanned that as "a video series of just them peeing."

lol @ HP's Muppet Babies spinoff pitch.

guys what about the t swift "love story" music cue in the Richie ep, though

i love this show. in the christmas ep, i loved how even bit characters seemed fully realized. i trust that everyone's got a story.

claire seems like the exception to this, and i can't help thinking it's on purpose.

only complaint: i want 700% more Sydney. more Sydney all the time.

Robert Townsend looks great btw

(i love the "love story" music cue to be clear)

agree, that was effective

The amorphous character of Claire is why I think romance storyline weakens this show — it’s not that it’s a distraction for Carmy but it’s a distraction for the show-watching audience if they don’t make Claire into a person rather than a moony childhood friend who got educated and hot.

However I did like how it soured due to walk-in situation.

i love the "love story" music cue to be clear

The "I love Taylor Swift, too, I just needed a break" line resonated hard in this household.

LL otm, also the one-inch-away closeups are also distracting for the audience imo

halfway through episode 2 of this season and the brief "sometimes i look like february" feels like a secret handshake moment

"I'm not like this because I'm in Van Halen. I'm in Van Halen because I'm like this."

Fans of everyone's fave ketamine depressive dream tattoo chef are directed towards the upcoming indie flick Fremont where JAW stretches his repertoire a little by playing a depressive dreamboat tattoo ... auto-mechanic.

one thing I'll say for this show is that it revitalized my son's interest in cooking; he made that omelette this morning, complete with sour cream and onion chips.

You know what else I hate? The “feel awkward after asking someone out and them not immediately realising so now we both talk over each other and to reassure that this wasn’t a dating proposal and we feel awkward and we keep talking over each other and this is awkward and hahaha do you get it” trope. Please remove this from all future televised media. And I love Sydney and Marcus! Great characters! Great chemistry! Why do you have to put that awful scene in there?

Ctrl+F "I wear suits now"

ha yes I loved that

Finished this morning and broadly loved it. I finished S1 and thought anything else was unnecessary but discovered that I did want to spend more time with these characters after all.

I found the Christmas episode too much, tbh. When it finished, I was pretty vocally like 'I don't know that I needed that in my life!' I got they were fucked up but jeez, I don't know that I needed my nose rubbing in it. (Not questioning the performances though. Some extraordinary acting.)

I'm interested in how it fetishes work and the work ethic, but at the same time seems to want to disassociate that from actual money, which seems very abstract to everyone involved - to the point that it's hard to work out how everyone actually survives day-to-day. The final scene of S1, where there is literally a mound of magic money seems to speak to this. I guess it's partly a commentary on the characters' attitude to their 'art' and lack of business acumen.

Richie "i wear suits now" reminded me of It's Hard-era John Entwistle

https://imgur.com/a/r5kGIDZ

ha!

A friend from New York (we went to school together in Chicago) was in town with his kids last night, and he wanted to get Chicago style pizza. I picked Pequod's, which he had totally forgotten was in The Bear, so he and his daughters watched the Richie episode again a couple of nights ago in preparation. No joke, within a minute of walking into the place, this young staffer starts up a quick conversation with my friend (who was wearing a very New York shirt), asks him if he's seen The Bear, and then proudly tells him the pizza's place in the show. Then, several minutes later, this young guy stops by again to talk about the filming, how there were 30 crew stuffed in this place, but how he got picked to be the guy who hands Richie his pizza. And *then*, several minutes *later*, the guy comes back *again*, totally earnest, totally proud, with the youtube clip cued up of him handing Richie the pizza. My friend loved his enthusiasm, and got a picture taken of the guy posing with the pizzas at our table and, held in his hand like a first prize trophy, his own phone, with his claim to fame episode cameo freeze-framed on the screen.

We figured he must do this all the time, but we loved it.

I hope you kept the moment going with many post-story questions about the experience. In all sincerity, that is really sweet

Ha, that's kinda sweet but cringe. I talked to a friend who waited tables there for years, and she said that she didn't recognize that guy. :)

I don't think he was a server, I think he was either a kitchen guy or a runner or something like that. I don't know, we thought it was pretty innocent and endearing. Didn't feel cringe.

Loved this season and Richie's arc, as mentioned, but didn't feel the Claire thread at all. She just seemed so desperate — you're smart, successful, attractive; don't you have other prospects?

Was it good?

I haven't had chicago style pizza probably since the early 90s. I'm kinda curious. I remember loving it. I'm sure I'll love it. That place looked great. There was some other place that I think Bourdain went to, maybe it was out in the burbs or something, but old school and also looked good. When I was a kid I loved coming into NYC and going to UNO. I was a dumb kid.

I think Bourdain may have gone to ... Burt's? Up in Morton Grove. Burt iirc was either the original owner of Pequod's or maybe their chief pizza maker. You had to order in advance at Burt's (iirc 48 hours) because he made a limited amount of dough each day. Anyway, Burt has since passed, but his place still exists. It was either Burt's or Burt at Pequod's that pioneered the caramelized crust.

Pequod's is great, but of course, the irony of Chicago deep dish is that while most people, Chicagoans or not, enjoy it, the only time we generally order it is when someone comes in from out of town and is all "Chicago style pizza! Chicago style pizza!" So we dutifully get Chicago style pizza, and it's good, and then the people go home and tell all their friends about the Chicago style pizza ("It's good," "It's a little much," "It's not a pizza," whatever), and everyone everywhere else thinks Chicago is all about the Chicago style pizza. Meanwhile, in Chicago, it's all about the tavern cut. And hot dogs. Even New Yorkers, they might like to dismiss Chicago style pizza and boast of their pizza (which is tbh really just default "pizza;" the best NY pizza places that people talk about are usually Neapolitan style, and you can get great Neapolitan anywhere from Chicago to Phoenix), but New Yorkers know better than to pick a fight with Chicago hot dogs.

For sure, have had classic chicago hot dogs and visited hot dougs when that was a thing.

But while this may not be the thread for it, I'm gonna have to seriously disagree with your comments about new york pizza. Neapolitan style pizza is all over the city and great, and we have some of the best I'm sure, but New York pizza is really more about the good slice joints and I think most of the best newer pizza places have more in common with a sort of elevated new york slice joint slice than it does with the classic neapolitan. The days of Motorino and Roberta's version of neapolitan pizza being the height of new york pizza I think has been replaced by places like L'Industrie, Scarrs, Paulie Gee's Slice Shop, Philomena's. All of which are probably closer to classic slice joints to fancy 10" neapolitan pies.

The really old-school NY places, where pizza as we know it was invented, the Lombardi's and it's offshoots like John's, Grimaldis, Patsy's etc, is more neapolitan than slice joint, but these days I think you're better off with Johns of Bleeker or Best Pizza in williamsburg. Di Faras etc.

I just want to eat L&B all the time, which maybe shows a hankering for deeper dish pizza!

But I'm more about checking out NJ Bar pies these days.

And this is supposed to be the joint, not bar pies but the pies are named by the style of the year: https://santillopizza.com/

Just got back from a visit to Chicago and Pequod's is definitely good (didn't know it was featured in the Bear). I recommend getting extra cheese. Also went to Piece, a microbrewery/pizzeria co-owned by Rick Nielsen of Cheap Trick that serves new haven style pizza.

Pequod's is excellent, as is piece. The tourist spot is usually Uno, which is very good but not the best. If you grew up in or around Chicago, the default places were whatever your local tavern style place was (my local-ish favorites below). The local chain Barnaby's was outstanding though my go-to location in Schaumburg closed a number of years ago. Giordano's is good though definitely not nearly as legit.

https://billspizzapub.com/
https://nickspizzapub.com/
https://foxholepizza.com/

btw i meant Joe's Pizza on carmine as a classic nyc slice joint. John's of Bleeker is one of the Lombardi's offshoots.

yeah, I love a good New York slice, but in my opinion it is less that the pizza is somehow spectacular and more how good it is for such a simple thing that is relatively easy to come across and eat. I mean, it's essentially the pizza I ate growing up in Pennsylvania, and likely the pizza people ate in New Jersey, and so on.Just pizza, imo, not an idiosyncratic offshoot, like Chicago pizza, or New Haven pizza, or Detroit Pizza, etc.

Like, I wish I could just get a slice in Chicago,
but it's not really a thing here.

The really old-school NY places, where pizza as we know it was invented, the Lombardi's and it's offshoots like John's, Grimaldis, Patsy's etc, is more neapolitan than slice joint, but these days I think you're better off with Johns of Bleeker or Best Pizza in williamsburg. Di Faras etc.

I just want to eat L&B all the time, which maybe shows a hankering for deeper dish pizza!

― dan selzer, Wednesday, August 23, 2023 11:21 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Special shout out to Grimaldi's in Hoboken, which has separate indepedent ownership unlike the national chain. SUPER good.

One of my few regrets about leaving NJ is not getting to Santillo's beforehand.

But I'm more about checking out NJ Bar pies these days.

https://www.kinchleyspizza.com/

this place down the street from my home office is legit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e8sH65X-hc

I used to drive by Kinchleys a lot when I was living in montvale during the pandemic (height of), always meant to check it out.

Pequod's really getting that Bear Bump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTpu7_0vaGU

If you want to go authentic tavern style, here was a rare tip of the hat via Kenji López-Alt in the New York Times (which often struggles to grasp Chicago, or any place that is not New York):

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/17/dining/tavern-thin-crust-pizza-chicago.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mIbyUgNOlo

Finally watched The Bear and yeah good stuff

we just got to the christmas episode. good times! jlc’s sauce hands are some of the most cursed imagery in recent memory

this is a very loud show! i like the restaurants scenes, i'm not so big on the family stuff. i think the family should be like the alien in ridley scott's alien - oft mentioned and referred to but never seen. the christmas episode, too much shouting and big emotions, okay throw the fork or don't throw the fork, chekhov's fork who cares whatever.

i recognize that the writers intended for the family to be a big part of the show, from episode 1 of the first season. but the writers also did the stupid tomato ex machina ending of the first season.

at the end of the day i think a little psycho restaurant guy can just be a little psycho restaurant guy without needing a big backstory to explain why he's a little psycho restaurant guy. sometime psychos are just psychos!

Maybe, but we wouldn't have gotten those amazing performances from JLC and Odenkirk!

jlc sauce hands

IDK I think the family stuff is great but I agree that it works better as background than foreground; when we're kinda just given hints as to what these relationships and history are all about

I found series 2 harder to get through, and there were a few things in it I didn’t like (mainly the whole Claire storyline, and the series being so much based around having to open a restaurant against such a tight deadline). Series 1 was almost flawless for me, except for the series ending.

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-bear-renewed-season-3-fx-hulu-1235781001/

Worried about diminishing returns setting in here. I hope S3 is the last

The answer to the question we've all been asking: https://hard-drive.net/hd/entertainment/fx-confirms-the-bear-season-3-will-require-no-prior-mcu-knowledge/

They say that now, but then the Blob'll show up in Ep 5 or something.

Gonna be funny if Carmy shows up super jacked (because Jeremy Allen White played a pro wrestler in a movie in between seasons) and absolutely no explanation is offered.

I think he's been super jacked all along, they just hide it well

They'll reveal that's the real way he got out of the freezer

Just hulked his way out

https://media.vogue.co.uk/photos/6471ec8f07c77016fcc85adb/2:3/w_2560%2Cc_limit/001.jpg

I mean, dude is already pretty jacked in the show

https://media.vogue.co.uk/photos/6471ec8f07c77016fcc85adb/2:3/w_2560%2Cc_limit/001.jpg

I mean, dude is already pretty jacked in the show

mmmmhmmm

Should have made him a baker, got baker guns.

in other JAW news, I saw recently that he's apparently dating Rosalia, love that kind of random celeb pairing

I think he's been super jacked all along, they just hide it well

They absolutely do not hide it well. It was a small thing that annoyed me about the first season. This is not a man who goes to the gym, but look at him. The set dressers could at least have put a set of weights in his spartan apartment.

i guess in my head he was pumping iron during his vintage jeans swapping limbo but yeah otm

i was gonna say, venn diagram between vintage levis in the oven guy and keto gains guy is pretty high

They lay enough clues to indicate that in his Michelin days Carmy was absolutely a fashion guy, so I think it’s not a huge leap to think he’s been pretty invested in how he looks.

kinda like a ketamine Gene Wilder imo

I saw an early Robert Mitchum the other day and it occurred to me that he has a look of Carmy about him.

I saw an early Robert Mitchum FILM, that should be. Not Robert Mitchum strolling along at 5am.

And his hair was ...

i am devoted to Matty Matheson’s youtube channel cooking show

i can’t eat half of what he makes but i find it so therapeutic to watch! he’s so relaxed & good vibes, i heart him

his youtube series from maybe 2-3 years ago where he was interacting with his zoned out staffers more was hilarious

i’ve watched some of those too they’re v funny

i’m obsessed with his jetsons microwave drawer, it’s so wild to me

Billy Zane episode is all time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahlGT2dVToI

!!!

have now finished both seasons. it's really good. they absolutely whiff the s2 finale though

Hard disagree that they "absolutely whiffed" it.

the stuff with claire and the fridge is just...no. no

as i say, great show, was pleased to see the richie episode is the highest rated on imdb, nothing wrong with feelgood-of-substance

That was a little weak, but the rest of the ep was so good - JLC was perfect, again. And watching Sydney work through her feelings of sheer stress and confidence was great.

okay fairer to say the s2 finale is really good, even while carmy is in the fridge, then it turns out he was there not as symbolic of letting go of being in control but so they could contrive a moment of absurd melodrama where lengthy character arcs are thrown in the fire. him being in the fridge should have been freeing, and claire should have been there as he emerged, euphoric. end of show.

sex education S2 finale another one that totally duffs the ending in order to ruin a romance. it's like these shows create something amazing but then can't refrain from punishing their protagonists. we live in an age of bummer

Tbf most romance ends in bummer so I’d say it’s an era of realism.

since the beginning of time protagonists don’t get what they want, this is normal

yeah but the lengths gone to and the sudden character inconsistencies wrought in order to deny them feel very in vogue. the dea ex machina is now shiva

like, with carmen in the fridge, i thought the pivotal scene would be with tina talking to him, but they somehow cut that off after a few seconds and sent him into the Tailspin which the entire series has been cathartically pulling him out of, it was like his arc was all for nothing

all that said, there have been a lot of satisfying arcs for other characters of course. although marcus' arc is kind of dropped for the last few episodes and then also given a bummer ending. i guess there are a lot of plates to juggle

what i didn’t buy was claire’s immediate rejection of carmy in that situation, despite what he said

Loved the season but thought those scenes didn't quite work. I get why they did it though: Carmy's redemption is the centre of everything and a saved Carmy = no show.

what i didn’t buy was claire’s immediate rejection of carmy in that situation, despite what he said

― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 13 March 2024 08:01 (forty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah, this was one of those glaring character inconsistencies i was referring to, the most egregious one

like, carmen's portrayal throughout the show is a really good and realistic presentation of someone who's clearly neurodivergent. in this sense i can easily imagine him going a bit loopy while locked in a fridge. what i can't imagine is someone he's in a relationship with simply not forgiving him after magically overhearing him expressing self-doubt

then again i feel like the kind of loopy he went wasn't quite right either, i feel like Real Carmy would have come up with a new dish while sat in there

or maybe it's not even the rejection i didn't buy, but the manner of it, like she'd just realised some deep incontrovertible truth about him that could never be remedied, rather than like "what?? fuck off carmy i'm outta here"

I wonder if there will be a deeper Carmy and Syd thing happening for the next season.

they had their scene already! oh god i hope they don't fuck up s3

maybe the neurodivergents do belong together though. i wouldn't root against them as an item, too-neat as it might be

also also, i spent most of both seasons reading marcus as gay, so the romantic tension between him and sydney caught me off guard a bit

I did, too, especially whenever his dapper roommate dropped by.

Marcus in general, I could never figure out why they were letting him experiment with molecular gastronomy donuts or whatever in the back of the beef shop. Like, they justify why Sydney is there, and of course we know why Carm is there. But Marcus, even in season 1, he seems to be working toward the goal set up in season 2.

The ‘romantic tension’ between Marcus and Syd was responsible for some of the worst scenes in Series 2.

I think it's essentially a badly written show with some good scenes and good actors.

yeah, as i say marcus had a good arc until it vanished around the time S2 decided to 'get serious' and they kept him involved by working some bullshit romantic intrigue up, it was the biggest failing of the series as a whole imo

i also read his 'roommate' as his partner yeah and that they were making no big deal of it and that this was good

idk i bought it. maybe he was gay. maybe he was bi. who knows. surprising things can happen in high pressure situations.

he'd entertained her to dinner in S1 without the merest hint of a frisson. ach maybe

I didn't care for the breakup either. Claire works in an even more stressful environment, so you'd think she'd recognize that Carmy is just spiraling from stress.

Oh right, the roommate in S1 totally read as his partner.

I feel like there's a little bit of "this character's arc didn't go the way I wanted, therefore this is bad actually" going on here, but eh, I guess that seems to be pretty par for TV and film these days.

Marcus in general, I could never figure out why they were letting him experiment with molecular gastronomy donuts or whatever in the back of the beef shop

I kind of accepted that because there’s a really strong theme in the show about the obsessive pursuit of perfection, beyond the needs of a Chicago beef sandwich shop. Carmy relates to Marcus’s obsessive quest, respects it, and allows him the space to pursue it.

That's sort of what I got, too, with Carm the catalyst that prompts Marcus, the former McDonald's employee, to pursue more ambitious culinary goals, and Carm recognizing that, too.

yeah they had one conversation about it but that was it

kinda feel that she wouldn’t have been so quick to leave him after hearing the fridge rant either, I mean seems like part of the reason she’s attracted to him is because he IS a chaotic mess, who has already tried to push her away before. at least call him out on his obvious bullshit or something

― Roz, Tuesday, July 4, 2023 11:46 PM (eight months ago) bookmarkflaglink

i mentioned this upthread re: claire's reaction, which I also thought was out of character.

hope syd and carmy isn't gonna be a thing - i much prefer the idea of them as platonic soulmates.

It's one of my least favorite TV contrivances, and something that would never happen in real life. A character does something another character misunderstands or doesn't wait around for clarification on, they have to do the dramatic exit. In real life it just doesn't occur like that. I think the show is pretty gripping but a lot of its elements are artificially heightened in a way that feels a bit theatrically unreal, for all its stylistic overtures in the direction of realistic cinema verite. I still think it's good, the most offensive thing about the whole program is how it's consistently categorized as a comedy in awards season.

ugh no to Syd/Carmy, would betray the fundamentals of their relationship - one of my favourite things about this flawed show is that it shows relationships which are intimate without being romantic/sexual, which is why the Claire thing pissed me off too.

Why are we all so certain that Claire/Carm are "done" done? She's not ruled out and rumored to be a part of Season 3, which doesn't mean things revert back to normal, no, but doesn't rule it out, either.

Have none of you ever had a moment where someone close to you upset you, you initially got upset and overreacted, and reassessed things in the sober light of morning? The episode ended not long after Claire left the restaurant so nobody was really of clear head in that scene

I will change my mind if this turns into the "she's not Rachem" thing from Friends but I never read that scene as a door inherently shutting

Strong agree that Syd/Carmy is a terrible idea. It's such a good depiction of a platonic working relationship, which has it's own kind of non-romantic intimacy. Torpedoing that with some cliche romance shit would put me off the show forever.

I think Claire leaving had such a sense of finality simply because it happened at the end of the season. In any other context it would definitely feel more like a temporary hurdle in the relationship.

Camry not being a toxic chef, as far as sexualizing his workplace, has been so key to the show. Yeah, it’ll turn a corner if that develops.

xpost yeah but tv seasons always have *big events* in the season finale that don't always have permanence.

otm, not hard to imagine season 3 opening a few weeks/months after season 2 ended, as they creep up on the actual opening of the restaurant (guessing some setbacks will pop up to delay the official thing), with Carmy and Claire working on patching things up.

absolutely, if Carmy and Syd get together romantically, it will absolutely ruin the show for me. I hope the creators are smarter than that.

tangentially, scenes are being filmed not terribly far from my house, though I haven't seen much signs of it. the crew (sadly no cast) popped into the local brewery I really dig though.

Hell, if they really want to throw people for a loop, S3 could start right after the closing of the new place, with everyone cleaning their wounds and figuring out what comes next.

just do a timejump 11 years into the future, Carmy has a kid, a wife we've never seen before, and a huge mustache, the restaurant is long gone and destroyed in a fire set by Chicago mobsters, Richie has a reality show about managing restaurants, Syd has her own Michelin-starred restaurant, and there's this new character Jules who has a wacky catch-phrase that he invented in the in-between times and since we're not privy to its origins it doesn't make sense

lol. Or maybe it can start with Carmy's kid on a space station, trying to spruce up the bad space food (which may have been an actual plot line of the most recent season of For All Mankind, unless I imagined it).

haha I love that I can find this thread by searching "ketamine"

so there is gonna be a Season 4 too?!?!

https://www.avclub.com/bear-season-4-renewal-back-to-back-1851337717

Yep yep, may be shooting back-to-back.

hay guys what if season 3 starts with a BAD REVIEW in the newspaper and then everybody has to team up to make a really good meal and win the critic over? And then the critic is Carmy’s mom in disguise.
Just putting it out there.

i’m so ready for moar seasons

Chicago news is making sure everyone knows that S3 is filming.

Season three they decide to bail on the Michelin thing and go back to being a beef sandwich joint.

no, time for a fast casual concept.

Richie is replaced by touchscreen terminals.

Fisher Stevens plays an evil beef sandwich restaurant owner from several counties over who is planning on opening a new location....across the street

Mikey faked his death, reopens o.g. The Beef two blocks away from The Bear.

Carm steps away from The Bear to make The Bear, a TV show about a troubled chef who

holy shit, I could totally imagine a future shitty season set in LA, on a set, with Carmy a consultant on a shitty show based on their story, while the rest of the crew tries to open up a new place without him. And of course we all know how that season ends: getting the band back together again.

but he has to solve/commit a murder while in LA

To Live and Fry in LA

Open for service 6/27!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHiwdDFPsZY

YES
CHEF

new trailer looks stressful af and i am here for it

hm
Claire detected

Those bowls are definitely different sizes.

I loved the first 2 seasons and that trailer fills me with dread. Carmy is turning into the Joel McHale character and I don't want to watch that. I don't know if I even want to watch him approach that precipice, wake up and back off.

idk I mean he kinda had a few out of character moments in S2 where he was explosive to his employees to where they quit, before recognizing what he did, owning it and atoning. like screaming at his employee "WHY ARE YOU FUCKING ME RIGHT NOW?" over and over again. still far removed from McHale's "you should die" levels of abuse but far beyond anything he'd done up until that point.

I feel like wrestling w/ the devil is something lots of kitchen managers struggle with, because of its high intensity, and of course the power trip some take w/ it, and unfortunately from my own experience, most of them seem to lose. can't imagine the writers will outright send Carmy completely into that rabbit hole though, it's definitely a show that wants us to root for him.

xp - otm, my first reaction to that trailer was "fuck, I hope they don't lean in to making him a stock asshole chef character" but trailers be trailering

Feels more like coked Gene Wilder by E2?

well by s3 he’s meth gene wilder bc our Carmy has lost his everloving mind

trent & atticus score is uh chefs kiss :D

imo the overall thesis of this series: being a chef at the fine-dining level gives you brain damage

ive only watched s3e1 and i am afraid to watch the rest carmy is going to tank so hard ughhhhhhhhhhh

Oh no, I don't want that. Why couldn't they just have run Chicago's greatest sandwich shop with occasional risotto?

Bc brain damage. I thought the first ep of S3 was sort of boring?

*Slight spoiler for first episode*

Since the show has the convention of the traumatic flashbacks in key moments, 5-10 seconds long in a character's head, I liked how this episode felt like expanding one of those flashbacks into a full stream-of-consciousness episode. I'm still wary about this going from a show about DIY teamwork to one about fine dining (especially getting Amex fine-dining ads, since I'm watching Hulu with ads), but I trust the show knows what it's doing.

Why is it still billed as a comedy??

30-minute Dramas aren't really a thing.

also once a genre is determined it is just locked in, it rarely if ever changes, as far as streaming platforms go

Interesting. So it is I guess. I remember laughing when the ceiling fell.

It's a really funny show, albeit in the same way Hill Street or Mad Men were where they working under a mask of Drama.

i watched one episode from season 1 last night where the toilet explodes, Richie walks into work with these sunglasses on and is all "what's up my replicants" and then gets in a wrestling match with Fak. i laughed a lot

also miami vice password
GOFASTBOATSMOJITOS

"I'm not like this because I'm in Van Halen. I'm in Van Halen because I'm like this."

<3

The idea of watching this does not seem at all appealing right now, although I'm sure there will be a few great episodes.

it’s fun mixed with mild stretches of occasional boredom, perfect tv!!!

ONE OF US ONE OF US

I watched the first two seasons, I'm just curious if s3 has more or less of the stuff I didn't like about the first two (clipped from upthread):

Finished s2, this is such a weird show. Obviously there's a lot to like, but half the time it feels like watching a WB show. When there's not kitchen yelling happening, it's often cloyingly sentimental with really corny dialogue (just shot in a gritty hand-held close-up that makes it feel arty).

Yeah idk, it just feels like there's a lot of padding around the good and more unique stuff in this show. The dialogue in the Carmy/Claire scenes and some of the Al-Anon monologues is kinda trite, and the montages of people ordering and eating food at restaurants and cafes is nice but could be out of any food/travel show (albeit with more tasteful music here). I really enjoyed the Copenhagen episode, but the random slice of life bits (like the injured cyclist) felt plucked out of other shows like High Maintenance and Atlanta.

xpost uh i misposted i thought i was on the dr who thread which is why none of that makes sense lool sorry

Why is it still billed as a comedy??

― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Thursday, June 27, 2024 9:43 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

30-minute Dramas aren't really a thing.

― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, June 27, 2024 9:57 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

also once a genre is determined it is just locked in, it rarely if ever changes, as far as streaming platforms go

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, June 27, 2024 10:21 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

The Bear also competes in comedy categories at the Emmys and other awards shows, I suspect because the producers think it will be more competitive in comedy categories. It also used to be the case that a half-hour show was automatically considered by the Emmys as a comedy, and although that rule was changed a few years ago (before The Bear's first season), the fact that most half-hour shows *are* comedies probably helps them justify that decision.

look i’m 3 eps deep and there are for sure nourishing belly laughs to be had here
so its maybe
not NOT a comedy

Fak with the mirepoix broth? L M A O

Watched the first one, I liked it! Nice to have a reflective episode (with many beautiful shots) to contrast the craziness and tension that is surely coming later

The thing I like most about food shows is the drama of the food prep and the glory of the presentation at the end— the whole series could be like Episode 1 and I’d be happiest

Article in Slate claiming the show is bad; most of the issues taken are with the music supervision, which is interesting! I’ve never read a piece hate on music supervision so specifically before

https://slate.com/culture/2024/06/the-bear-season-3-fx-hulu-bad.html

i couldn’t disagree more with that piece and even though i read i think i can file this under “i’m not reading all that but i’m sorry that happened to you”

Heh I definitely agree about the music supervision.

I watched ep1 of the new season last night and the entire time was thinking about the scoring, it's an interesting brief to have the same four bar piano loop going for literally the entire episode, with almost zero dialogue. They did a pretty good job with slight variations so as to not make it interminable, and the strings following the rise and fall of the scenes.

I certainly didn't mind the repetition of the music, suited the flitting nature of the episode. felt very much like a dream

I thought it was something from The Social Network score at first, which it wasn't, but it *was* Reznor/Ross -- a track from Nine Inch Nails' Ghosts V.

episode 1 was a failed experiment imo. it felt like an overture, which is an interesting way to approach the first episode of a bingeable season of tv, but i only had time to watch one episode and was left pretty unsatisfied!

It was too long. At the first commercial break, I thought "wow, cool way to open the season," and then the rest of the episode was exactly like those first 10 minutes.

i thought it was a really unique thing to do in a tv show

and i found it so sad & really moving

but i am also deeply Bear-pilled so ymmv

which it wasn't, but it *was* Reznor/Ross -- a track from Nine Inch Nails' Ghosts V.

Ohhhh. Damn, those records keep giving for them. Score one for the music supervisors, minus one for the composition team. They must have edited to the music then rather than the reverse.

ohhh Ghosts V! … ok i lost track of the online releases at some point.

anyway it’s a fucking beautiful choice imo

I didn’t recognize it and thought it was original, and remarked “wow they really gave the composer a TASK with this episode”

They must have edited to the music then rather than the reverse.

Thought about this in episode 3 when Carmy is finishing plating the same dish five or six times, and it's absolutely timed with the classical piece underscoring it.

Jordan's WB comparison is coming to mind the more the season goes on (I'm on e5, and I'm sure there are more tonal shifts on the way). I wish the people outside the main characters were less "normies" and just had more interesting ways of having a conversation. (Imagining Carmy dating a female equivalent of Fak or S1 Richie.) It's not that they need to be ~colorful~, it just makes me think how Joe Swanberg (especially in Chicago-centric Easy) can make intimate conversations pop while still being credible, and this could use that.

I’m on episode 8 and i have been crying my face off, it’s so crazy. I have hella mom issues so this one hit me where I live

Jamie Lee Curtis really nails this personality type <3

and Abby Elliott is the busines, what a fucking g

I enjoyed season 2 but it did feel like a step down. Too many cameos (I didn't like the family dinner episode at all) and a turn towards sentimentality.

the bear video game actually looks pretty cool pic.twitter.com/pijrftMFDr

— Michael Kandel (@K_A_N_D_E_L) June 28, 2024

lmao

Ahahaha, holy shit

lol

amazing

Started reading that Slate takedown dismissal of the show by frequent music critic for them Jack Hamilton. He started giving away some plot items , so I stopped reading, but I did see him say the music has become too white and not reflective of many genre’s associated with Chicago; plus he says the music programmer is the type of guy who would play Astral Weeks at a party.

The Bear s03e01 pic.twitter.com/ZNz1OzGyv6

— Rob (@robrousseau) June 29, 2024

i am on record as enjoying the music but at the tail end of Ep10 they fire up James “Laid” and my entire body was like ._.

in context it turned out to be a good house party song for the scene & totally works but omg if i never hear that song again it will be too soon

Agree. The “guy who would play Astral Weeks at a party” is the sort of indictment that vindicates my feelings on the topic.

Even though I didn't need to hear "Strange Currencies" again, I did like how they layered it in with the Reznor ambient music. Haven't seen a TV show do that before when neither music is occurring within the scene itself.

Finished the season this morning. As always, exasperated by parts of it (same was true of Succession and most other shows that end up being the one or two per year that I watch), but also glad to have put the time into it.

When a Ricky Jay voice-over happens in addition to back-to-back songs loudly underscoring scenes, the PTA influence showed itself too boldly.

am i going to try removing the wishbone from a chicken? signs point to yes

Enjoying it quite a bit so far. Episode 3 is an editing masterclass. I agree with the "music's too white" criticism, though. Was thinking the same even though hearing Kate Bush pop up was kinda glorious.

omg watching that guy struggle with the cork in s3 was the first thing that stressed me out
(i forget his character's name, sry! it's about 9 min in)

woops i meant ep 3

yes! that super stressful

Not sure about this season overall. It felt somewhat slight compared to the seasons 1 and 2. Episodes 3 and 6 are excellent, though. They better wrap this up with one more season, though. Too many loose threads.

Did I write “though” enough?

Pretty sure S4 is set to be the final one, and I believe they’ve already finished filming it.

ep 3 was indeed really good
watching Tina at the farmer's market shopping to Spinning Away, less so (to be clear -- I LOVE TINA)

after finishing s3 and knowing s4 is in the works it seems like this season will function as a bridge to s4 … this season felt like more of an exploration of the impact of s2 finale and looking more closely at the emotional web holding everyone at The Bear together

i think it works in terms of what it actually ~is~ vs what we expected it to do

speaking of, the convo about the dead moms club absolutely killed me. keep in mind that i work in a restaurant.

not long ago it was fathers' day and all of us scheduled to work were coincidentally members of the dead dads club, which we joked about endlessly until we were presented with a gigantic cake our coworkers had made for us with pics of our dads on it. mine was a photo i took of my dad when i was 12, he was looking straight at me/the camera. i also made a pie for us bc i felt like i had to do something. two of the deaths were within months, mine was just over a year ago, and the fourth guy lost his dad about 13 years ago. from the kitchen to the hosts, we all ate cake and pie and talked about our dads and i haven't had that kind of camaraderie in my life...ever? this ep reminded me of that.

That’s lovely, LL.

xpost This makes sense now that I’ve learned S4 is in the can.

wow yeah that is beautiful LL! thank u for sharing

After my dad passed, one of my good friends wrote me a very sweet message that ended by welcoming me to the "dead dad's club". Probably the first time I laughed after he passed. I didn't know it wasn't my friend's original joke until this episode, but I suppose it's the kind of joke you only hear when it happens

Indeed - a requirement for initiation

Not sure who the market is for a $395 Matter of Fak work jacket.

(secretly me)

(no shade -- that's OK!)

LA Times has a good piece that hews more to my general feelings about the show and why I like it so much

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2024-06-28/alcoholism-addiction-the-bear-season-3

The show seems to exemplify a saying that a friend of mine use to quote to explain why he dropped out of the super-competitive high level junior chess world at 14 years old: “In the search for perfection lies the root of neurosis” …

(However, when I search online for the saying there’s has no record of it….)

I heard on the Ringer Watch podcast that i guess The Bear was originally only going to be 3 seasons and at some point after s3 was written that FX or whoever discussed extending to a 4th season for like 18 total episodes

thus now stretching s3 to bridge into whatever happens storywise in s4

which explains why it felt very uh bridgey lol

i kinda said as much upthread but that gives a bit more real-world explanation

four episodes in and yeah this show is really good and dynamic. every actor is bringing it—i’m especially loving how lionel boyce has come into his own as marcus. “doors” is exactly what i want from this show, and the cousin-centric episode 4 made me well up a couple times

if its main flaw is over-ambition, is that really so bad?

i think the disappointment lies in how dynamic the first 2 seasons were in moving characters forward & story arcs etc and this season isn’t doing as much of that and it is def a vibe shift

but yeah i agree!

oh and btw i dont think i shouted this out but

Ep6 “Napkins” is perfect and great and wrenching and TINA!!! is the fucking best. Liza Colon-Zayas kills it. just beautiful acting.

goddamn i loved it so much

directed by Ayo too!

Just watched that one. God this show is so fucking sentimental. I did appreciate the two Genevieve Artady drops though. :)

almost done with the season. I do feel some disappointment at the vibe shift vg describes but there's still things to enjoy, chiefly the acting. I also haven't found what little comedy there is very funny this season - John Cena's cameo was... bad. feels like they're trying too hard to keep comedic elements in there

damn there is no restaurant scene that stressed me out as much as ep8 Donna at the hospital with Natalie. the constant talking, the volatility, the hee hee hee -- jfc, could not take it.

Didn't realize until reading reviews after finishing the season that Josh Hartnett plays Richie's ex's fiancee.

reminded me of when my sister had her first baby, she was 19 and her mother in law was there with her and this woman is very DeeDee energy, SO intense & so keyed up and she had my sister stripped naked (no idea why, just YOU NEED TO DO THIS energy) and all this crazy shit and my poor sister was just beside herself & stressed out of her mind

luckily my Mum finally showed up & kicked the MIL out and got my sister covered up and calmed down

anyway

i did weirdly love how DeeDee was able to be of use and BE a mom to Sugar in some of those later moments, like she def has firehose energy but when you’re thirsty you can sort of chaotically get what you need if you point her in the right direction lol

Speaking of Ep6, I saw a story about it and how fans felt it revealed a plothole from S1 re:Tina initially being mean to Sydney by overstating her relationship to the restaurant and I think these people are saying that because they've never encountered someone being territorial before.

wow i totally did not recognize hartnett

wow S3E1 was incredible, I am totally on board for whatever they do next

Just watched episode 2, I can almost see the critic above’s point about the music. That Vedder needle drop felt like it lasted fuckin forever, but it’s pretty easy for me to ignore in the grander scheme.

Every time I stack my leftovers in the freezer and put their little tape labels on them, I think how angry Carmy would get with my tearing over cutting.

I still can never get the hang of how time moves in the restaurant. Maybe that's deliberate. Do the front-of-house guys really show up eight hours before service all suited and booted just to take in deliveries and shout at each other?

finished S3 -- if i hadn't been sick as a dog i would have gotten more irritated about the nonsense of Big White Cloud playing for no reason while Syd and Shapiro talk about her potential new job in a wine closet. Thought the confrontation between Carm and his abuser was actually quite effective and good. Like VG (or someone else?) upthread, I never need to hear "Laid" ever again in my life but I thought it was sort of cute that everyone was enjoying it at the party.

Also I thought the convo between British chef (can't remember his name, the pea-picker) and Syd about their siblings/only child status was interesting, if somewhat unrealistic.

i didn't believe for a minute that any of those people would be into Laid (this song was an extremely minor alternative rock radio hit in the US, I think it's a much bigger thing in the UK) but I am a big fan of the song so it didn't bother me.

"Laid" has had a decent afterlife over here appearing in movie trailers and it still gets decent airplay on the SiriusXM '90s/Alternative nostalgia channels.

Related to the British chef, I saw The Revenant last week for the first time and saw that he played Tom Hardy's sidekick.

Also agree with LL that the Carmy's confrontation was especially well done. Also, Thomas Keller did great in his cameo, as far as not being able to tell if he had a script or was just improvising.

Something I'm still thinking about: S1 felt like it was based in a world where "fine dining" was a toxic, rotten system; but by S3, especially with all the chef cameos, it feels like it shows Joel McHale as being the one bad apple in a system based on kindness and discipline. This trajectory works well if it's the Al-Anon-type narrative of families feeling toxic until someone does the work to get over that; but we don't really see Carmy figure out if he can be a fine-dining chef without being an abuser.

Not yet…

i feel like that’s coming

that confrontation with McHale was so good, like even just that Carmy hadnt thought much past “Fuck you” felt very real

and then McHale justifying the abuse and taking the credit for making Carmy who he is… real as fuck and so devastating to hear/receive

but also how seeing much space Carmy’s given in his brain to this guy, how enormous they become in your mind, to where Carmy’s at that amazing dinner with all those stories & he’s literally not present, not even in his own body because of this guy

so so good

I would say "SPOILERS!" but it's been obvious that was on the horizon. (I'm through S3E4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LvIlPvrjGk

"Laid" got a big push from the American Pie movies and trailers - I think a lot of my friends who aren't into music would at least recognize it. Almost 200m plays on Spotify

ha, I completely missed the american pie phenomenon (I think I saw the first one).

i would have gotten more irritated about the nonsense of Big White Cloud playing for no reason while Syd and Shapiro talk about her potential new job in a wine closet.

Seems like this was part of them doing a diegetic "elegiac mood" playlist designed for that night's dinner.

Maybe? Gideon’s Bible would have been a better choice from that album tho imo.

The show The Bear is good but if a cheap sandwich shop in the city where I could get a big pop, fries, and a hot dog shut down bc a white man moved back home wanted to turn into a high end restaurant I would pray for that restaurant’s downfall everyday.

— لارا (@NormalArabGirl) June 30, 2024

The food certainly doesn't look appealing...when Tina had that big bowl of roasted cauliflower and brussel sprouts and Sydney was like "here, let me help you with that" and put four of them on a tiny plate of sauce, I died a little inside.

When Tina is making dinner at home she's got a big plate of maduros in front of her. You just know she has some killer P(uerto) R(ican) arroz con habichuelas going on in one of those pots. Would watch a show with her making that stuff.

Arroz con gandules!

yeah I want a big bowl of whatever’s in Tina’s crockpot

the number of times I'd idly wish they'd just make an italian beef grew with every episode

but they do make italian beefs -- isn't that the store by day via the window and then it's fancy at night? unless i completely misunderstood that.

I just really wish they hadn’t rushed this season into production without real scripts due to its 3 most important actors’ various film commitments. It’s sloppy and embarrassing

Yes, they're still making and selling the beefs, and rehired some of the guys who used to work them, whom I couldn't remember if we saw them in the first season or if they just retconned them into the flashbacks in the first episode of the new season.

I was bummed in the last season, when they went and got the famous deep dish pizza, I think when Richie was working the fancy spot...they had to go ahead an immediately deconstruct it. Just serve the damn pizza, that's what they wanted.

Those sandwich guys were in the Tina origin ep, and were presumably let go during COVID/The Carmy takeover prior to the pilot.

Yeah I got that, just don’t remember if they appeared in the earlier season as opposed to being introduced in new flashbacks.

i loved they brought those guys back and once you see them in action & it brings you back to the vibe from Tina’s episode too

like *touches nose, points* CMON THE BEEF
BRING THE VIBE BACK
YOU CAN DO T

I just really wish they hadn’t rushed this season into production without real scripts due to its 3 most important actors’ various film commitments.

where did you hear this?

yeah i don’t think that happened

ebon moss bacharach said on the Talk Easy podcast that they had a season 3 script but when they started production or started shooting idk the initial episodes were too long so they broke it apart into a s4 i guess

he talked abt shooting scenes of s3 on the same day as scenes from s4 and them all trying hard to keep everything straight

whatever happened they for sure had a script

https://decider.com/2024/07/10/the-bear-restaurant-review-season-3/

That Talk Easy interview with Ebon M-B that Veg mentioned above is really good.

i love how he’s so down in the actual dirt of acting, in such an unpretentious way.
he feels like good twist or inversion on oldschool 70’s actors, where the kind of life you live is as important as your career, not subservient to it

I am with the Slate writer on his criticism of the mostly all white indie rock soundtrack choices for season 3

Episode 3 was a drag and felt like a repetition of episode 2.

yeah big fan of ebon m-b on this show-- his performance is the most accurate and authentic portrayal of a particular kind of chicago guy i've ever seen

Oliver Platt gets that right as well, in so many details and scenes.

Not looking at the rest of this thread but the general consensus is that season 3 is a little boring? It's dragged a LOT for me, however, I've just watched episode 8 and it was excellent (and relieved to see that a lady had sole writing credit on it).

More than a little boring IMO, feels like webisodes a show would do 15 years ago only stretched to half an hour. Repetitive, nothing new or interesting learned about characters. Last one I watched was episode 6, which was slightly better but it reiterated what we already knew about Tina and the dead brother and the Chicago beef family.

Heh, Sasha Frere Jones: “the bear is the terrible and inevitable end of film bros trapped inside a tv contract rather than experiencing a long and peaceful life in advertising. S3 is utterly unwatchable like a first year edit test scored to leftover pandemic era post rock stings from a cancer doc.” We ended up watching all of Season 3, for some perverse reason, and as unpleasant as it was, there is a distilled essence of unearned privilege in this show that I am glad to know about. The Bear seems to have been made by people who have never met other people. This is, of course, statistically impossible, but this is the emotion I am left with. I wish I had been left with that feeling in, say, the course of an hour rather than the eleventy-seven days it takes to get to the end of this non-show.

I was lukewarm on S1, came around with S2, but am now back to a place of frustration in S3. I like that the show has its own style and rhythms and that it tries things that other shows don't, but a lot of it feels really self-indulgent, at the expense of sustaining a compelling serial narrative. especially this season with all the flashbacks and moody montages. and if the point is that it's more about characters than plot, that's fine, but this season barely even had the ensemble interact with each other. it just felt like a series of short films on a common theme.

i've got to admit i find this show tough going, and a bit effortful in how it depicts chaos and drama. maybe because it all seems so pointless, unnecessary, and frankly unbelievable in a lot of ways, despite certain parts hitting home here and there. the forced intense drama of what's going on at a new high end restaurant and it comes off like The Wire for privileged people. i find it to be sort of basic and not complex, just pitched at a high volume all the time, loud drama papering over the lack of a particularly engaging narrative, and even for whatever reason that Xmas episode from S2 has started to bug me maybe due to it feeling like a drama class for celebrity ringers. it had elements that did remind me of a specific Chicago family but it rings a bit false in my memory now. like a lot of folks angling for that guest actor Emmy spot (it seems to have worked.)

and i really also have always agreed with that tweet upthread about the awesome sandwich shop closing down in favor of a fancy new spot, i mean what's interesting is how the show absolutely boxes out the blue collar element of Chicago by presenting a setting where the few blue collar characters are trying to appeal to the wealthy element of the city. it feels like it's an evasive tactic, avoiding really digging in to the actual deeply felt issues of the working class and their struggles with a business. the best way for this show to end would be for this restaurant to utterly fail and the crew to open up a very basic but successful enough beef shop and Carmy to find relief and happiness there, like the end of Office Space where the dude finds his place just working outside in construction and not grinding away at computer all day.

One of the things that frustrated me most in S1 was for all of the show's seeming embrace of Chicago as its location, it didn't seem to actually engage with the city at all. I still barely have a sense of where any of the characters live -- although if you squint at street signs this season, you can see that Tina is in Pilsen and Marcus is, well, somewhere on the South Side. But I understand that I'm probably overly scrutinizing it because I live here. The issues I have with it now are more about basic storytelling.

Cousin’s stage episode in s2 was an all-time great half hour of TV - a short film with a full plot that expanded a character in ways most shows can’t over an entire season. Then there’s Christmas where it’s a half hour of people yelling at each other and “this is the root of Carmie’s trauma” and somehow that became the default mode of the series.

There's also a difference between that Richie stand-alone, where we saw the character evolve, and the Tina stand-alone this season, which colors in some background for her character and provides a nice showcase for Liza Colon-Zayas, but is entirely in flashback and doesn't seem to add much relevant information to the plot.

At least this show has made me like Matty Matheson, before I was kinda annoyed by his look and the whole Vice food thing and never gave him a shot. I've been watching the Top Chef Wisconsin season and it was a delight when he popped up.

Also knowing how funny Ayo Edebiri is in other things, it's annoying how she doesn't really get to be funny here (although the scenes with her dad are pretty good).

agree about the lack of Chicagoness, it starts to feel about as Chicago as The Dark Knight sometimes, and uses the city less effectively than a peak era Andrew Davis movie. And the restaurant is such a typical fancy place without much connection to the locale, it might as well be in Seattle or NYC or Minneapolis. Not that the beef joint felt particularly realistic as an actual Chicago beef spot but it had more local color. I suspect that the show doesn't want its preferred viewing audience to think of Chicago, but to be comforted about themselves maybe. It's a bit touristy in all its supposed lived-in geographic specificity.

I have one more episode, and I have to say there have been too many Faks this season. The whole haunting stuff with Cena is just really corny.

I haven't gone back after episode 6 but the Faks were the worst part of this season so far.

i haven't watched season three yet but i just found out today that the drummer in my kid's band is from chicago and his father is one of the owners of Smoque BBQ which apparently makes a cameo in the show. (and appears on sydney's resume in the first episode?). rufus and the band just had a big feast there. they had a gig in chi-town. all i can say is: coolest dad! beats having a record store dad. mmmm, brisket...

I think the only time I've had Smoque was at a wedding, where it was catered, but I wasn't eating much meat at the time. People seem to like it, though!

Must be nice to have a dad who hooks u up w meat as well as opportunities

brisket dad ascendant

drummer is the nicest kid you will ever meet. so sweet. he just graduated from McGill with a degree in Urban Planning. killer drummer too!

Finished, generally the latter part of the season seemed to have a point but the finale was a little too open ended for me and unsatisfying.

Also, too many songs this season.

Finally finished S3. Really should not have stretched this out into two seasons. The feeling I had at the end of this "meal" was intense constipation.

it's a self-important sitcom

it's not a sitcom

Show really has disappeared up its own posterior

Zero character progression, no dramatic stakes (or steaks, even), nauseating celebrity chef cameos, and padded out with tedious digressions like all the Fak stuff

running "gags" (the "haunting" thing this season, my god) and celeb guest actors (chefs too add nothing) make a lot of it, admittedly revolving mainly around fak, feel like a boring sitcom. then it does all the montage and lingering mood which strikes me as ponderous rather than the profundity for which I expect they aim. and too much music yes.

So I should skip this season is what you’re all saying

Tina's origin story is worth a watch, maybe Sugar's pregnancy episode.

there was enough for me to enjoy, but I think if you do skip it, you could watch the future season 4 without missing a beat

Idk, I agree with most of these complaints, but I thought Fak and the haunting thing was one of the few moments of levity that didn't make me completely hate this season.

Yeah, I think Tina's flashback ep and the pregnancy ep were the highlights for sure.

maybe "levity" isn't quite the right word, but thought that was kind of funny in a charming way

i enjoy the fak appearances bc matty matheson brings representation for handsome hairy fat dudes to the tv

I don't necessarily share teh dour opinions above about the season (and also I loved Fak and the 'haunting' thing myself because it felt in line w/ all of the team having their own weird internal culture), but I do agree that it's a lot more meandering and with not a lot of payoff.

I liked the Tina ep more than the Sugar ep, but it says something about how loosely plotted the show is that both of those could be watched as stand-alone episodes without needing to know anything else about the season.

I think that's kind of the issue is that, while I wouldn't say this show was *ever* tightly plotted, it had more of a linear progression in seasons 1 and 2, with specific milestones set up to build toward, while allowing for occasional detours along the way.

whereas this season, there was maybe one milestone (getting the Michelin star/the result of the review) that doesn't even get resolved, and it tries to do the whole Sopranos 'avant garde' episode thing without having the deft writing of that series. often I would play a mobile game on my phone while watching episodes so I wouldn't get so annoyed w/ the lack of forward momentum in some of the episodes, whereas others like Tina's didn't have that issue.

(and also I loved Fak and the 'haunting' thing myself because it felt in line w/ all of the team having their own weird internal culture),

yes, thanks Neando for putting this more succinctly than my tired brain could manage today.

I don’t know if it was intentional or not but I thought the structure of this season actually matched the plot. They changed the menu every episode. Each individually felt like “The Bear” but it didn’t ultimately cohere. A montage episode, a single-setting episode, a flashback episode, a bottle episode. And maybe ironically, the show reached the same real-world conclusion as the restaurant did in the finale—mixed reviews for something saddled with high expectations.

All to say, I was frustrated with parts of this season (especially in the first half), but as I look back on it I actually like it more. I’ve accepted it took a loose approach and no single character or situation really took a sustained center stage. But nearly everyone at one point or another had a breakout moment.

I think I'm fine with the show being kind of shaggy and uneven, it's mostly the acclaim that bothers me. Like, if this is what is being held up as a great show, then its many flaws become much more glaring.

I've seen a lot of critical articles regarding Season 3, tbh

i thought Season 2 was kinda whatever too, the celeb cameos are thoroughly distracting and forced, i think the show is trying to get over on mood and tension, and its shagginess feels like compensation for actually telling a compelling story.

i think one problem i continue to have with it is also they shut down this pretty excellent-looking italian beef joint in favor of whatever The Bear is supposed to be. i mean that beef looked pretty good.

but they are still making the sandwiches

i guess just like basic italian beef joints, gimme the sandwich and some peppers and let me sit in a booth and look out at a dirty street.

i am hoping maybe less of whatever comes next will be about trauma -- i have had more than enough of Carmy's trauma (though it has been +/- well handled imo) and want to see a depiction of someone who is fully through it/has processed it and isn't necessarily stuck in it anymore. I guess there is less drama in that but it's 30 min and billed as a comedy so...(now that I understand why, it makes more sense)

i want my dirty booth and fries and video games. some scratches in the window. a soda with crushed ice!

That's part of it, the whole buying into Michelin-style food that looks unsatisfying to eat and of course hilariously overpriced, people killing themselves to make this food that nobody really wants.

xp

I'd imagine the margins on the Italian beef outdoor food truck are better than the shit Carmy is making in the fine dining wing

it seems like the sandwich window is all that's keeping them in business and that they are losing a lot of money on the fancy restaurant

Like they're full every shift or close to it, people paying the marked up prices, and still losing money.

The Computer comes in and is like um guys wtf at all of this waste and they're like thank u for yr feedback we will continue to do the same bad things

all restaurants are doomed to financial failure except like mcdonalds and taco bell follow me for more business advice

Exhausting. This show is just: “zoom all the way in and behold the sheer ACTING” I personally felt a lot of interactions and behavior felt unnatural so I was never immersed, I was very aware they were acting and on top of that the melodrama turned up to a million amplified the lack of believability.

This felt like half a season. The three plot knots didn’t get resolved at all (will Syd leave? Was the review bad? Will he call Claire?). I have to say I do love the cinematography in this show and it got even better this season.

As someone who owns bars, restaurants and clubs that get very crowded (granted none to a michelin level standard at all) the chaotic element is way amped in this show. Yes we’ve had nights that felt like two nights and were every thing that can fail fails and we’re all running around trying to put fires out but even on those nights it’s not as dramatic as this show does it.

Maybe in Michelin stars it actually is like this… but if it is I don’t know why anyone would like to be at that sort of stress and apparently it’s just a pit of burning money. Show should definitely end with Carm saying fuck this pretensions and instead improving and getting the Beef to a franchise level instead and everyone in the team becoming a partner.

I feel like this is where the show is heading as a theme present through the season is how most of them are missing out on real life by making the restaurant their whole life.

has anyone seen the film/subsequent series Boiling Point w/Stephen Graham? i heard a lot of good things and it seems to be the closest thing out there to this.

I think that's kind of the issue is that, while I wouldn't say this show was *ever* tightly plotted, it had more of a linear progression in seasons 1 and 2, with specific milestones set up to build toward, while allowing for occasional detours along the way.

It's an FX show, so from the start I wasn't surprised by the randomness (thinking of Atlanta, Better Things, Louie, and so on doing the same, and all technically qualifying as 'sitcoms' because of the 30-minute slot.

want to see a depiction of someone who is fully through it/has processed it and isn't necessarily stuck in it anymore.

Weirdly the Joel McHale character came across as someone who has done this.

This show is just: “zoom all the way in and behold the sheer ACTING” I personally felt a lot of interactions and behavior felt unnatural so I was never immersed, I was very aware they were acting and on top of that the melodrama turned up to a million amplified the lack of believability.

YES

Did folks like the first episode? I loved it for its impressionistic vibes, obviously Reznor/Ross had a lot to do with it.

I loved the first episode, very meditative, but my bf did not and we didn't keep watching

I definitely enjoyed the first episode and it gave me hopes the season would be better than it was! But yeah - but after two seasons of character growth, progression, and this sense that everyone was a part of "building something", this season just felt stuck - like Carmy. And it wasn't nearly as good entertainment. Reading how it was intended to be the last season and they extended it makes so much sense, and it's somewhat tragic they went this route, potentially neutering some of the impact the last chapter of the show could have had with a bit more brevity and focus. Loved the Tina ep, but couldn't stand how much time the fakking Faks got. Felt like lazy filler.

Maybe in Michelin stars it actually is like this…

I've been to a few of these type of restaurants and at least those with open kitchens are incredibly regimented and professional. No yelling, mostly silence, in fact. Everyone's intensely focused. The restaurant itself is meant to be an immersive experience, and this shouting and dysfunction presented in S3 (especially episode 3) would be a massive customer issue unless that kitchen is heavily sound proofed. Kinda made it less believable.

The acting and cinematography at least make it still quite watchable, and as much as I'm complaining I'll still watch season 4.

Yeah it's funny because the last nice restaurant I went to in Chicago was this place with a completely open kitchen and an almost meditative, gentle vibe. And the food was so complex and interesting and while I don't doubt tensions to exist in restaurants like that, they act like professionals not like psychotic method actors.

if I went to a restaurant where people were yelling and screaming at each other I would walk the fuck out in seconds

hell I remember leaving a Burger King w/out ordering because of a manager that was being verbally toxic to a 16-year old who wasn't mopping the floor to their liking, then calling and reporting it to their franchise owners.

work is work ain't nobody got time for new anxiety disorders caused by yelling

xxp What restaurant, omar?

xxp I have friends in the fine dining industry and the toxicity is def there in spots. Egos can be massive, as with any industry that deals with the public and is fame adjacent with those who find success. Drug use, misogyny/harassment, and burnout are very real and very common (one popular SF restaurant owner built a special room in each establishment of hers so she could do cocaine, for example). Treatment of front of house staff vs back of house can vary in places, and like any place of work, the owner/leadership personalities are replicated in the staff via adaptation or hiring practices.

But there are plenty of places that succeed without these qualities. And everywhere you look there's passion for the craft! To make food at that level you have to really love what you do and love food, cooking and serving, and it's a lot of fun sharing in that joy when going to these places not only with the people you bring with you, but the people who work there too!

I mean - how can you be a roadie without loving music?

xp Elizabeth (think it may be closed or under different ownership now, this was pre-pandemic.)

Meant to say that many places succeed without toxicity

I think The Bear does a decent job of showing both disfunctional and highly functional restaurants. We are supposed to understand that Carmy had lots of good experiences too but is carrying the baggage of the abusive treatment he received in the Joel McHale kitchen.

But will he ever move beyond it? I certainly hope so — the show seems more ambivalent

This show is just: “zoom all the way in and behold the sheer ACTING” I personally felt a lot of interactions and behavior felt unnatural so I was never immersed, I was very aware they were acting and on top of that the melodrama turned up to a million amplified the lack of believability.

aside from lack of believability -- which i agree with -- i think this season assumes it has earned big emotional moments that it hasn't. an entire episode essentially hinges on the death of marcus' mother, but we don't really know that character -- marcus' narrative arc has rarely invoked his family -- so the revelation rings hollow. the show seems to think that because the characters care deeply about marcus that we do too, and are going to feel the the same devastation, but that isn't how it works. i haven't gotten to the tina specific episode yet, but for me the show hasn't properly illustrated the professional growth that would be necessary for her to cook at the level where the show now places her. so when we see her struggling, or navigating the market, or working to create her own dishes, it falls similarly flat to me. we're supposed to understand that there is a good cop/bad cop dynamic between carm/syd/tina and thus the moments of syd's empathy towards tina are supposed to tug at our heartstrings and deepen the dynamic between the two characters, but it feels rote and simplistic, and ultimately, yeah, not very believable.

When we get the list of "non-negotiables" early in the season, it felt like we were going to see Carmy create a fine-dining restaurant as toxic as the one he came up in. It was a surprise that this kind of leadership and striving toward perfection didn't intensify his worst traits, especially leading a kitchen for the first time. If anything, even the cigarettes and drugs mostly disappeared.

j0rdan otm! Maybe it goes in the opposite direction too, like the show assumes that we care about Carmy's relationship with Claire, so literally every other member of the kitchen is always checking in and asking about Claire in a way that seems weird and not very believable?

xp Elizabeth (think it may be closed or under different ownership now, this was pre-pandemic.)

Nice, that's in my hood. And yeah, it is now a new place called Atelier. I didn't get a chance to dine at Elizabeth when it was open, but I did get takeout there sometime early in the pandemic, and it was very good. The chef now operates her own inn in Michigan's Upper Peninsula.

i do think that both syd and richie have genuinely become richer and more interesting characters, so i don't think this season is completely a wash or that the creators of the show have just lost their touch. but i think the show is trying to accomplish a lot of things now -- experimental storytelling, celebrity cameos, satisfying *and* further expanding an already sizable cast of characters -- all w/in generally sub-30 min run times, and is buckling under the weight of all that. carm is weirdly paralyzed which is a bad place for a show to be, but i feel like there's a version of this season that strips away a lot of the excesses and actually just focuses on the main characters that would hit a lot harder than what we actually got

carrying the baggage of the abusive treatment he received in the Joel McHale kitchen.

And of his perception of his brother's lack of faith in him (even though his brother was trying to protect him by getting him out of Chicago and stopping him getting sucked into the DRAMA of the original restaurant) and of his mother's controlling behaviour.

Show should definitely end with Carm saying fuck this pretensions and instead improving and getting the Beef to a franchise level instead and everyone in the team becoming a partner.

I definitely want to see this happen, and if it does, the show has the right to call itself a comedy in the old-fashioned Shakespearean/Greek sense of having a happy ending and everyone getting what they want and maybe doing a little hey nonny dance. OK, it sounds stupid, but then so does finding a life-changing amount of money hidden in some tinned tomatoes.

beyond the half-joking 'fuck these guys for replacing a casual place with a yuppie hellhole' sentiment, Carmy taking the Beef and starting to make it a functional restaurant and applying the lessons of a fine dining kitchen to working class food was a more interesting narrative idea than "fine dining chef comes back home and ends up a fine dining chef again"

if less media could be about trauma in general that would be greeeeeeeat

I can believe Tina would be a a high level cook if properly tuned and capacitated - which we’ve seen syd and carm do for a little bit in between episodes every season.

It’s a stereotype but Tina being working class latina mother means she is very likely a great cook even before working at a restaurant. There’s a flashback scene with his husband (who is his husband irl which I think is cute) coming from work and tasting her food and smiling while tasting it. Do not doubt the power of latina mothers and grandmothers in the kitchen, they have natural gastronomic magic in their hands.

And they can handle a LOT of stress. Most realistic aspect of that kitchen so far is that we haven’t seen Tina have a breakdown as the rest of the staff.

imo Tina's looking-for-work episode was by far the best of S3

Yeah I think she’s my favorite character and her episode was the highlight of this season.

Her and Ebraheim who is underrated and we don’t see much. I got stressed at them leaving him working alone in what is actually paying the billa and never complaining about needing help.

cocteau twins playing over the most emo metaphorical trauma ward story from Claire was a low point. this show has far too many eye-rolling moments.

"Hold Me Now" would have been better during a heart surgery scene

sorry that's the wrong set of Twins but my suggestion stands

We struggled to the end of S3 (last episode sat unwatched for like two months) but aside from the many issues elucidated above, the original season felt like someone mending a busted psyche and a broken heart by reconnecting to the roots, doubling down on Mikey's commitment to The Beef, and finding meaning in doing simple things well, for people who value them. Around that there was a ragtag bunch of people with varying levels of experience who came to share that commitment thru Sydney being able to speak for Carmy and create community. And so after that transformation, the next step is to ... recreate the environment that burned Carmy out? kill the spirit of The Beef and gentrify it into a Michelin-starred elite dining experience? chase external approval instead of building on self-reliance? Finding the money at the end of S1 was absolutely literally the embodiment of this ethos. And so S2 and S3 feel like they took a 180 from the core of season 1.

argh I mean finding the money validated the commitment to self-reliance

jesus, so many Faks, I think two was too many. I've watched three episodes in a row that felt like 40% Fak content. meanwhile everyone else is sitting around having these artlessly rendered meandering conversations and it comes off like a student film, saying a lot of dialogue without saying anything really. so much "remember when"...Tony Soprano would be in hell.

Tina episode was a notable standout though, it felt real and with actual stakes.

it feels like we've seen Richie four times this entire season. the way the episodes lean so heavily on certain characters it's as if several key actors weren't available due to other commitments, so they chose to fill in the gaps with the support cast. there's no reason for Sugar to be in the hospital and for a couple of Faks to show up at the end to meet Donna in the lobby instead of Carmy or Richie or whoever.

Sydney is one of the most realistic characters I have ever seen on tv. Something about how Edibiri plays her, especially the moments where she lacks self awareness.

She's just a great actor and comedian in general. Can't explain it, but it makes total sense to me and puts a smile on my face that she's from Dorchester, MA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOyRo-Yjr2Q

Literal ticking countdown to bankruptcy clock, lol.

i love how the bear comes back every year at the same time. what a concept

"With song placements by R.E.M., Wilco, Wilco, R.E.M., Wilco, R.E.M., and the Replacements."

"...and for spice, Nine Inch Nails!"

Where is Claire? I need Claire!

i love how the bear comes back every year at the same time. what a concept

that's how hibernation works

Lol, have to believe voodoo chili set you up for that one

Interesting that the new season seems to have no media previews (no reviews out today), and none of the 10 episodes have titles or descriptions. I'm sure the mixed reviews of the last season have something to do with that -- that it's good to go in blind to this one. (I know enough folks involved with it and enjoyed enough of it to start watching tonight before any spoilers kick in.)

Also oddly no mention out there of this being the final season, even though it sounded like it would be.

"I blame it on my elegance...I will happily reduce."

watched the first two episodes last night. It's good but it does feel like this show should end with this season.

This is the final season? For some reason I thought they were splitting it in two.

I assume given the rising stardom/workload of many involved it would be hard to keep this train going.

I never finished S3, I assume I can pick up without watching the last couple of episodes and be fine.

no

Read two reviews this morning (in Slate and Vanity Fair) that make it sound like the show is still making the same mistakes it did in season 3.

i feel like they have learned from last season's mistakes and are perhaps overcorrecting (two episodes in). so far, fewer faks, fewer moments of abstract longing, more urgent plotting, more laughs.

I'm off Hulu rn and have no desire to watch another season of this

ok well pvmic i binged the first 3 episodes in the middle of the night last night and so far i love it

if you have been watching it wanting it to shift focus or be about something else you will be disappointed i guess idk? like this is the show, this is what its about

My main complaint about S3 is less about theme/focus and more about pacing/plotting. The show has lots of great ideas and strong individual moments and performances. It is less successful as structured narrative.

I never finished S3, I assume I can pick up without watching the last couple of episodes and be fine.

My wife watched season 3; I did not. She filled me in in about three sentences before we watched the first episode of this season and I did not feel at all lost.

Update on this (Interesting that the new season seems to have no media previews (no reviews out today), and none of the 10 episodes have titles or descriptions.): as of this morning, the episodes now have titles and standard quick episode summaries. I wonder if leaving them out was an error or (and this would be smart) leaving them out on release day for fans who don't want any info, the way rap albums sometimes drop now without immediately showing the features.

The less Matty Matheson the better

I loled when Alpana showed up — she’s so Chicago. For those who don’t know she used to host a show called Check Please where diners would rave about their fave restaurants and all the guests visit each other’s faves and weigh in. She always seemed to be half in the bag.

Does this show resolve the pointless, aggravating, season long indecision and narrative/plot constipation? I'm half tempted to wait until some of y'all finish it before starting it up

We're 4 episodes in and I definitely prefer it to last season - less Faks, more enjoyable to watch - but I still think that's kind of a problem, octobeard

But tbf, I suspect many of the plot threads will get resolved this season. Just a hunch

Lotsa close up brooding and fretting

And not enough Chicago music. It’s S4, get tuned in please

Im on ep 3

Yeah, had the same thought with the music: it's Dylan, Zep, Van, Love and Rockets...and then I wonder if that's still Reznor/Ross doing the score.

I'm also 4 episodes in and am concerned about a whole episode called "Sophie." Would be very into that subplot if it had two high-strung people working on adrenaline-junkie roles (chef and ER medical professional), but zero of that comes across in those scenes. (Like, why would Carm show up at the doorstep of someone who doesn't work weekday shifts?)

my cat doesn’t like television but he was transfixed by the Syd episode? he’s apparently an Ayo Edebiri fan

Soundtrack for this season so far (3 in) is great: talk talk, Roxy music, st Vincent.

yeah using “so in love” by curtis mayfield (at the end of the excellent 4th episode) is the surest way to my heart

I loled when Alpana showed up

Haha yes. In some ways I'm surprised she didn't show up on the show sooner, given that she's a Chicago restaurant professional who is obviously experienced on camera (though she always had a weird, awkward energy imo).

And not enough Chicago music. It’s S4, get tuned in please

There are a couple of songs in the later episodes including a song from a band at the end credits that was definitely not on my bingo card.