Your hardline opinions and pet peeves.

I hope this is a self explanatory thread.

1. Pulp fiction should only refer to the writing published in pulp wood magazines from the teens thru the fifties.
2. If you wrote the song, it's not folk music.

"pulp-wood paper magazines" sorry i'm just too fired up to proofread before i post

what should we call original songs written in the folk idiom?

SSW

Folk idiom is too broad a term imo but sure, singer songwriter, country, fuckin indie rock. It’s a term that is not about any sonic quality but about the origin of a song and it’s context.

But this thread again is about opinions you know are hardline and eccentric but embrace anyway. I know I’m being a crank.

if you wrote the song, it's not pop music

film is an overrated medium

Well………..
3. There are only three kinds of music: folk, classical (incl religious styles), and pop.

So I would disagree but tell me why, just because if the literal meaning of “popular”?

film is an overrated medium

Now we’re talking

film is an overrated medium

Now we’re talking

those coffee cup lids are really annoying and never stay on properly

there are two goddamn spaces after a period, you fucking children

this aint the new yorker

sorry I think that was #6

"stupid" is not an ableist word FFS, it literally means a temporary state of mind

(7)

there are two goddamn spaces after a period

fp'd, you . . . you . . . bastard

also coffee is terrible. i mean apart from the grand history of exploitation that supports coffee, it also tastes like shit. (i will grant that coffee beans smell wonderful, if not as wonderful as curing tobacco)

fuck etymology people use it all the time to mean a thing certain people inherently are xp

8) if I go to Cici's Pizza and I hear the announcement "order of wings for Joe", I get mad. Bro it's a pizza buffet, you can eat all of the shittiest slices and tasteless pasta you want. If you order shitty wings IN ADDITION to your buffet YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG

also because I hate people named Joe

(9)

10) if u get onto an elevator that has lit-up up and down arrows to tell you which what it's going, and you ask "is this elevator going up?" after the doors closed, the elevator should be immediately opened where it is and u forced to get out

people should never hold the door open for other people, it always creates a huge clusterfuck and is a crime against efficient movement.

12) David Cassidy

13 is actually lucky

14. Cats and dogs are both wonderful.

15. NYC pizza is overrated

fuck etymology people use it all the time to mean a thing certain people inherently are xp

― your original display name is still visible (Left),

FP'd you for this because my stance is hardline and not negotiable, it's different than the other words which do deserve to be retired. stupid is equal opportunity, anyone can be stupid.

film is an overrated medium

Why would I want to watch a bunch of photographs in such rapid succession? Let me look at one, and I'll tell you when I'm ready to look at the next.

16. There are too many sports

17. People who don’t like coffee are literal children (nothing personal mookieproof)

18. vegan/vegetarians that tell non-veg people they have the best tofu recipe to get them off of meat

Is that recipe for tofu or a recipe involving tofu

19. this is another challops thread

xp recipe for tofu

20. arguing on this website is a waste of time, you should only ever add your horrible opinion to the waste bin of posts

21. Italy and Portugal are the only European countries where you can get a decent espresso.

yeah I was all ready to jump on the coffee is overrated train until I remembered my time in portugal

bad coffee is more than fine if you haven't had your palette spoiled by the good stuff imo

the best tofu recipes involve meat

https://i.postimg.cc/DfX0vXVd/licensed-image-1.jpg

remember my first time drinking espresso in Italy "wtf, this doesn't taste bitter and nasty?!"

Leafblowers. Use a rake!

people should never hold the door open for other people, it always creates a huge clusterfuck and is a crime against efficient movement.

Yeah drivers inviting you to cross in front of them at an un-signaled turning when you've already mentally prepared to stop and wait for them to pass does grind my gears probably to an unreasonable amount tbh.

Ahh fuckit

24. Pedestrians! Treat the sidewalk like you're in a car driving down the street. Remain to the right (or whichever side is standard for cars in your country)! If you need to pass someone, check with yourself that you're actually going faster than the person in front of you and don't just weirdly want to be in front of them for no particular reason but walking at a slower speed so they in turn have to slow their own pace! If you have to use a handheld electronic device and cannot maintain a steady pace or refrain from weaving all over the sidewalk like your freakin gyroscope is busted, pull the eff over! If you're walking hand-in-hand with your sweetie, be mindful of other pedestrians and do not run them off the walk! Never ever ever walk side by side by side with three or more people unless there is clearly no one else present (or you're ready to go single file at the drop of a hat)! Do not exit a building and swing out onto the sidewalk without slowing your pace or even bothering to check whether there might be another human being already occupying the space you're attempting to fill! If you need to stop/window shop on the sidewalk, again, do not just start mindlessly walking again as if the human traffic conditions on the sidewalk have not changed since you came to a halt (there might be someone behind you)! If you find that you're going in the wrong direction DO NOT make an immediate 180-degree turn (there might be someone behind you)! Cyclists...GET THE FUCK OFF THE SIDEWALK, IT IS NOT FOR YOU (AND IN MOST INSTANCES IN THE CITY I LIVE IN AND ON THE SIDEWALKS I FREQUENT, THERE IS A BIKE LANE LITERALLY RIGHT THERE)!

As I'm like 95% pedestrian at this point (and very lucky/thankful to be able to walk to work), I have strong feelings. I'm sure I have more related feelings that I don't remember at the moment because I'm not presently walking.

25. People making their main living on social media as an influencer or purveyor of cat videos (or whatever) should be super-taxed to i) reflect its social toxicity and ii) try to strongly discourage people making their living this way.

26. Pedestrians should be able to walk all over the road without risk of death or being honked / yelled at and it's one of the less trumpeted outrages of the previous century that cars were able to colonise so much of our space killing and disabling 10s of millions of us in the process and that's not even getting into air quality, climate change, or the aesthetic abominations that are cars and motorways and the cities and suburbs built around them

27. cars are good tho

if you don't mind how smelly and ugly and deadly they are I'm sure they're great

28 Overtime is punishment for the client, not a reward for the worker

xpost fucked up way to talk about babies imo

29. Babies are overrated, toddlers are where it's at

as someone who only interacts with them periodically for short visits they're both unbearably difficult but it's obvious who's more fun

babies are way better

yes the entertainment upside is low but relative to the actual fuckin effort and actual behaviours you can start to blame them for its no contest

30 tom hanks should never be allowed to play a character based on a real person just to burnish his own fucking "goodness" or ego or messiah complex or whatever for fuck's sake there was an award-winning critically-acclaimed documentary about mister rogers that people actually went and saw in the theatre why do we have to think of YOU now when we think about mister rogers you pathological fucking weirdo go dump your plane at the airport and then go live at the fucking airport dumbass billionaire greedhead. you are everything bad about this country with your mythbuilding bullshit smile.

31 this goes for any other clueless useless hollywood fucks like leo - omg i doubt you could deliver drinks competently on a plane let alone fly one or build one - or matt damon or anyone who looks like they never learned how to do anything in their life other than look good on a screen you are not gary cooper or any of those old time stars who looked like they bootlegged gin during prohibition and then got into acting because they ran out of money and didn't know what else to do.

32 not a libertarian but people don't really need to hear annoying beeps until they put a seatbelt on in their car its their own damn car and we are not four fucking years old.

^^ booming post

33 otherwise against the death penalty BUT those influencer slob-type people who graffiti or do live-laugh-love “art” in national parks should be hanged

go dump your plane at the airport and then go live at the fucking airport dumbass

lmao

yeah you'd better run Gumpy

34. With very rare exceptions if you're an actor who gets employed regularly in Hollywood you are probably at least competent at your job, what ppl complain about when they say someone's a bad actor is usually either animosity towards their persona (which is valid) or just the actor being misscast or asked to go beyond their range; there's no famous actor I can think of that is ALWAYS bad regardless of direction. Hitchcock's cattle comment is obv dickish and reductive but what it does get at a bit is that once you get to a certain level of competence it's all about how you get used imo.

sorry but we have a thousand post thread that calls that out as a huge lie

onraldobloomps.gif

✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓

namedropping, referring to nameless friends as evidence of something

The Hardline According to Terence Trent D’arby is a good record.

So is Symphony Or Damn

I don’t have any opinions like this except that any bagel that is prepared in a style that differs from the “Montreal” style is not worth it

is Symphony Or Damn is the greatest record of the last 30 years.

this is related to the above about cars, and it's that the bar for owning and operating a motor vehicle should be really high, and if you violate laws in the ways that a lot of people do habitually, you should have your vehicle taken away and banned from driving for several years, and you have to earn it back. and if you have that happen a second time, you should be banned for life. enough people die on the roads every year, let's try to keep the folks who can't be trusted behind the wheel in the backseats of Lyfts and Ubers. it's a privilege and not a right but people believe it is a privilege. obv this is a pipe dream at least in a country where guns have more rights than kids.

also aesthetically, it's hard to find newer cars that aren't ugly or boring.

every car looks the same now. like a sneaker. its either honda or subaru where i am. makes it really hard to find your car in a parking lot.

(makes sense that western mass and vermont people wear keens and drive subarus. they look exactly the same. they just need to find a dog that looks like a keen or a subaru.)

...a subaroodle

Wow, here it's all fuckin Escalades and F-150s

You have to remember Scott lives in the right's stereotypical Blue America

Yes, I expected him to mention Renault Fuegos.

If you go to a bartender for dessert (eg a Bushwhacker) or an alcoholic evocation of your childhood (Pink Starburst shots) you need to have your thumbs muddled or your head rung like the last-call bell, and all your cash confiscated for the tip jar.

well, there are a ton of trucks here too.

i think massachusetts is the only state where every county voted for hillary clinton in 2016. i think i read that. the gdp of massachusetts is 500 billion dollars a year. that i'm almost sure of. can't remember what the state bird is...

the state of Henry Cabot Lodge~

i think there should be a sign here that says: Greenfield, MA - You're Almost In Vermont!

P Diddy was supposed to take over our big local weed store but the deal fell through. :(

I know this is an all-purpose challops thread, but I'd be interested in a thread of pedantry about word definitions per Ian's og post

Ian where do you stand on "pulpy" as an adjective?

I dislike it because it’s reductive and is often used derisively.

“Poppy” is another one; just say it’s a catchy song.

omar, your thoughts re: motorists mirror my own so closely that I could cry

Why do some drivers require special training/licensure to drive particular vehicles while most people can just stumble drunkenly into a DMV and get permission to drive a car just because they aren't blind and they demonstrate that they understand what various street signs mean. Last I checked, all these fucken metal beasts can kill people pretty easily

34. People who spit their gum out on the asphalt for others to step on should be drawn and quartered.

Made to chew their own discarded gum as they are being drawn and quartered.

That might violate the Eighth Amendment.

NYC pizza is overrated

Food in NYC in general is vastly overrated. But in particular, NJ pizza > NYC pizza.

Never get into a debate about anything with someone under 25. (In certain circumstances the minimum age goes up to 30.)

40 tbh

every car looks the same now. like a sneaker. its either honda or subaru where i am.

If the Honda Fits, drive it.

if it fits i sits

There should be a separate Best Actor category for biopics. I don't think it's fair to compare characters created from scratch vs. imitating the voice and mannerisms of someone famous.

Maybe it should be "Best Performance by an Actor" and "Best Adapted Performance by an Actor."

biopics are almost always terrible and they should put live alligators in theatres showing them to dissuade people from going

the plural of gin and tonic is gins and tonic.

pretentious

the plural of octopus is octopuses and people who insist otherwise are tossers

“Pretentiousness” to the extent it’s a real thing is fine and the preoccupation with being or seeming pretentious is a pathology

it really depends on what kind of pretensions you're pursuing

No it depends in my hardline opinion

Hard agree with Neanderthal about biopics

does amadeus count? that one is cool

It's my hardline opinion that there's usually exceptions to any rule, for example Mishima: A Life In Four Chapters which counters the above contention

amadeus pure shite

hypretension

We can preserve a selection of like the 5-10 good extant biopics but, yes, the rest of them should be melted down and remolded into some a sculptural tableau depicting the makers of biopics as threats to society

Oh also 'biopic' is pronounced 'bye-AH-pic' and I'm drawing a hard line on this one

no no its like myopic

the plural of octopus is octopuses and people who insist otherwise are tossers

Tossi

Fuck all y’all, it’s “BYE-oh-pick.”

biopodes

I’m taking a hard line that sympathetic portraits of fascists cannot be good cinema.

same goes for the fucking romanovs

Stalin? A monster? Well, it's complicated, and here's why.

We can safely distinguish between a film like Andrei Rublev and Oscar twaddle like Walk the Line. "Biopic" is a specific kind of Hollywood fare

same goes for the fucking romanovs

https://i.imgur.com/5LpmYrd.gif

The animated Anastasia was a big favorite of my oldest.

I blame that film for so many people thinking some of worst people in history were cute and tragic victims

but as far as your royal girlboss icons go it's all about liz bathory, marie antoinette is for normies

video websites / apps / tv apps / social media that default to autoplaying a suggested video as soon as your video ends.

somebody (or a few people) made the decision to implement this at some point and they should be in jail without parole breaking rocks somewhere

Oh also 'biopic' is pronounced 'bye-AH-pic' and I'm drawing a hard line on this one

why? it makes no sense

The Romanov children didn’t have time to become the worst people.

"there are two goddamn spaces after a period"

THANK YOU. My wife and kids fuss at me over this and I am too old to retrain my hands. I would spend too much time going back and deleting spaces. Fuck that.

Two spaces after a period is a style choice that makes sense in Courier-font era dot-matrix printer era document formatting, and I maintained a hardline “two spaces yes” attitude until very, very recently, now I am ambivalent about it and just let autoformat run its course

It’s been argued to me that as language is misused repeatedly that the wrong-meaning becomes the new-meaning— regime in place of regimen, fulsome in place of fully, for example. I strongly believe the opposite. I can’t even read the word “unorganized” without my head screaming quietly

It’s been argued to me that as language is misused repeatedly that the wrong-meaning becomes the new-meaning

A boxed set is assembled from materials that have been placed in a box, hence the past-tense "boxed." A box set is a collection of boxes. I fully realize this battle has been lost.

the cool thing about language is you can literally improvise new meanings all the time and as long as people still get it that's what it means now

One space after period became official house style where I work a few years ago.

standing athwart language yelling stop is a mugs game

it's interesting how much people care about this stuff, like what does that *mean* as a sociolinguistic phenomenon in itself

I grew up using 2 spaces but when I started working for a magazine I had to unlearn that, I'm pretty sure one space was standard for pulishing for quite a while.

there's a movie coming up about a Stalin admirer who has weird glandular issues and it's called The Stank Tankie

two spaces after a period I learned in word processing class in high school in the 90s and can't unlearn it, it'd make me think too much about what is now an autonomous process, so fuckin' deal, INTERNET.

A boxed set is assembled from materials that have been placed in a box, hence the past-tense "boxed." A box set is a collection of boxes. I fully realize this battle has been lost.

Yes!

I don't think I could untrain my fingers from putting two spaces after a comma.

i can't retrain anything. like when I learned to type, I was heavily focused on letters and got lazy when it came to learning to type numbers, and still to this day I slow down significantly when I have to type numbers (otherwise at about 120 wpm)

I have the same issue with multiples of 12. I was absent the day they drilled those.

I learned to type on a manual in 7th grade but I fuckin' adjusted to one space after a period when I understood that those were the rules of my profession. You all sound like people who ask your secretary to print out emails and fax them to you.

What profession requires one space after a period?

I mean if I was told for my job I had to lose the extra space, I could probably train myself, but without the motivation of losing my job if I don't, sorry, not gonna adjust!

What profession requires one space after a period?

Journalism. Writing books. One space is standard in publishing.

I think the two spaces thing is antiquated at this point but tell that to my fingers

I learned to type when I was at school - most useful thing I was taught - complete with two spaces after the full stop. But as unperson says, that’s a no-no in magazine publishing and the single space is now second nature to me (and I can spot an erroneous double space at twenty paces). I’m guessing it’s to do with neatness of type on a page, where more often than not you’re battling to fit as much text as possible - every double space means a text cut somewhere else.

I guess I've never had to learn any different. Rules of court are often weirdly specific (e.g., font and spacing), but I've never seen anyone require a single space.

most useful thing I was taught

I learned when my grandfather made me take the Smith-Corona typing course (consisting of several 45s and a workbook) one summer. I deeply resented him then, but have been grateful ever since.

Rules of court are often weirdly specific (e.g., font and spacing), but I've never seen anyone require a single space.

Yeah, I think legal documents may require a double space for stupid arcane reasons no one's ever bothered to change. I know when laws are written up for Congress there are all kinds of rules about that shit, most of them stupid, which is why some senator or representative can slap a huge dictionary-sized volume on the podium in front of cameras and shout, "This law is 900 pages long!" when if you typed it up normally it would be, like, 40 pages.

It mostly depends on the personal biases of the judges who write the rules.

do you all work in publishing or you sitting here wordied about like internal emails and shit

One space is the standard now and I accept that, but as someone who grew up with two spaces being standard, it SUCKS to try to retrain myself. Now I end up with non-standard spacing, sometimes one space, sometimes two, which is the worst of all worlds.

gonna go big, five spaces between words. sometimes between letters in a word.

I write public documents for a local government.

but APA and Chicago Manual of Style say one period after a sentence

They both mandate the Oxford comma, iirc.

it all went to hell when people started saying "same difference" instead of "same thing". nobody could explain why they did it. all of a sudden everyone just did it. and thus the rise of Trump...

They both mandate the Oxford comma, iirc.

I do proofreading and copy editing for a medical equipment manufacturer and a health insurance company, and one mandates the Oxford comma and the other doesn't. Once I've been with the insurance company for a while I'm gonna try to push them into the pro-Oxford camp. As it is, I slip one in whenever I think it's necessary for clarity and can get away with it.

my hardline: americans are incapable of making great movies now. or even very good movies. they forgot how. they've got all the tech and know-how and money and they can make you a 300 million dollar piece of finely-tuned buffed and shined crap like nobody's business. though china or india will make it for 1/3 the money and it will be way more entertaining. americans don't have any good stories. its all the same story now. go to school. go to film school. make movies. go to school. go to acting school. act in movies. so boring. option some old piece of crap and make it new. americans would be so much better off if they just embraced their phones 100% and made all their movies on them. its what they know and love. when i think of the movies that blew my mind in the last ten years: alcarras, il buco, azor, gritt, notturno, undergods, new order, davos, air conditioner, lucky chan-sil, stray dogs, white god, a sun, the cave, bacarau, to the ends of the earth, raw, baskin, not to mention all the insane and amazing genre stuff. crime, horror, action, etc. none of that stuff could be made here by someone who grew up here now. nobody knows about anything or what people are like. you never see life on the screen. they don't have any vision. occasionally some indie person pulls a malick and everyone oohs and ahhs because its refreshing to not see matt damon in something. or someone like nicole holofcener or noah baumbach will actually write an actual screenplay that is not completely stupid and people will call them heroes. even though their movies are all so...eh. its such a big country. why aren't people out exploring it? maybe everyone with talent is too busy directing episodes of reservation dogs. i see a lot of old indie stalwarts directing those streaming series. maybe a younger generation will show some life. or not. in the end it doesn't matter. there is just a ridiculous amount of imagination coming out of every part of the planet. eastern europe. south america. mexico. india. south korea. japan. china. everywhere. the most beautiful art that is also really really entertaining! its not stodgy arthouse fare. jaw-dropping stuff. and here people weep for nomadland, a lovesong to amazon. blah. they can have it. (also greenberg is one of the worst movies i've ever seen. not least because ben stiller plays a carpenter in it. a carpenter!!?? as if we could ever believe that ben stiller knew how to do anything! he's ben stiller! also: Marriage Story? really? that's a great movie? oof. kelly reichardt. there's another one. timid pale stuff. no guts no glory. its like movies for people who are too scared to watch real movies. lite movies. i just watch television when i need that liteness.)

It never would have occurred to me to describe Nomadland as a love song to Amazon.

Nomadland the film had a very message re: Amazon(who helped fund it and allowed them to film at a warehouse) than the book it’s ostensibly based on

*had a very _different_ message

OK, but it's not exactly Castaway.

I agree that it should be way harder to get a driver’s license but not because of crazy dangerous psychos but just regular people doing dumb dangerous shit without even realizing how dumb dangerous it is

I’m honestly amazed I’ve only seen one major traffic accident occur in real time

scott, I love ya, but you're 100% wrong. I saw Passages this weekend -- terrific. And so long as Kelly Reichardt, Greta Gerwig, Terence Malick, etc. can still make movies, American ci-ne-mah is fine.

And I love Bacarau, Stray Dogs, The Cave, etc. as much as you.

xxxpost after I drove a 27 inch trunk to Georgia I realized how scary it was that someone like me was allowed to drive a 27 inch truck to Georgia

My daughter drives a tow truck. The shit she's seen, I'm surprised she wants to drive at all.

I agree that it should be way harder to get a driver’s license but not because of crazy dangerous psychos but just regular people doing dumb dangerous shit without even realizing how dumb dangerous it is

― brimstead, Sunday, August 20, 2023 3:08 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I’m honestly amazed I’ve only seen one major traffic accident occur in real time

― brimstead, Sunday, August 20, 2023 3:09 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

oh yeah to be fair i meant dumb dangerous driving from regular folks, not limited to people like that one who intentionally drove thru an intersection at 100+ MPH and killed six people here in L.A. I just see normal people driving like maniacs, just total disrespect for the powers of physics and gravity and momentum. little miniature Stockton Rushes all over the place, itching to die and take others with them.

scott, I love ya, but you're 100% wrong.

when hardline opinions collide the the rational response is... a poll!

I commuted 30 miles to work each way every day for years and have seen so much crazy driving, e.g. people barreling down the dangerous curves on hills along 280 in San Mateo County in pitch black in the rain, driving Escalades and F-150s, as Alfred said. Insane

Florida has the most aggressively bad drivers I've ever encountered. Atlanta is a close second.

Yes.

i almost got destroyed a few weeks ago when I was zipper merging towards the end of a merging lane and not one, two, but three vehicles aggressively accelerated to keep me out.

one of em did so in a company vehicle with deets so.....

My dad, who is intelligent but almost completely lacks what most of us would call "common sense," used to commute every day from Port Richey to Tampa. On his motorcycle. I think he finally put the bike away after maybe the third time he nearly ended up a smear on the pavement.

xp Nean, that's SOP for Atlanta drivers.

Have you ever driven in Texas? ATL was my gold standard for aggressive drivers until I encountered Houston.

driven in Houston a few times but mostly I was in Conroe/Woodlands which is a bit more mellow

xp I drove through Texas a couple times in the early 90s, but not in the major urban areas. Watching out for Texas plates was definitely an essential part of defensive driving in Colorado.

the one time I went to Colorado everyone on the road seemed so mellow and the only aggressive driver for most of the trip was....the driver of the car I was in, who was also from Florida.

Surprisingly, the most aggression I ever got was from drivers who didn't want to share the road with a bicycle.

I assume most of those people have since moved to Texas or Florida.

there is just a ridiculous amount of imagination coming out of every part of the planet. eastern europe. south america. mexico. india. south korea. japan. china. everywhere. the most beautiful art that is also really really entertaining! its not stodgy arthouse fare. jaw-dropping stuff.

― scott seward, Sunday, August 20, 2023

yes

My real pet peeve is how reluctant my family and friends are to watch films with subtitles. I wonder - so it’s a foreign film, is it that hard for you, can you not extend yourself even a little?

That said, as far as American films go I think Kelly Reichardt is pretty great

I'm gonna get a driver's license next week, for the first time in ~30 years. Thus far I do not enjoy driving; it feels like work. I will do it whenever I have to but the idea of driving somewhere and taking pleasure in the driving itself is completely baffling to me.

I love long road trips, but more for the opportunity to indulge in long trains of thought and to listen to long-form podcasts and audiobooks than for the actual experience of driving.

i love driving, im comfortable behind the wheel, but omar and everyone since otm about driving

We lived in San Jose, CA for ten years and I thought the driving there was pretty bad. It was doofus driving: not using turn signals, that kind of thing. Stoned driving.

Then we moved to Houston and holy cow. Aggressively shitty driving, it was awful. The roads are huge and everybody is in a hurry and most of them are angry. There's a stretch of road (I45) from Houston to Woodlands/Conroe that is supposedly the most dangerous stretch of highway in the USA. I have friends that lived up past Conroe so after hanging out I'd drive back down 45 at night. There was one night where I saw two separate flaming wrecks.

Glad to move away, I really didn't want to teach my kids to drive there.

I spend nearly half my life in LA, I’d much rather drive here than Atlanta.

Doofus driving, yes that’s it!

i'm actually pretty perfectly comfortable driving the freeways here, the situations and times that kinda spook me are the open stretches of surface streets, especially in the Valley and Orange County, after midnight and before 6 AM.