2023's Oscar Nominees

From best to worst:

Maestro
The Holdovers
American Fiction
Oppenheimer
Poor Things
Past Lives
Barbie
The Zone of Interest
Anatomy of a Fall
Barbie
Killers of the Flower Moon

uhh worst to best

anatomy of a fall vs. poor things for me, tho i haven't seen american fiction, zone of interest, the holdovers (i will prob never see the holdovers), or maestro (i will never ever watch a movie directed by bradley cooper for as long as i live)

I still have a couple to catch up to, but Anatomy of a Fall is by far the best I've seen and Maestro the worst (just barely over Oppenheimer) ... so far

Seen five, plan on seeing two more. 1. Past Lives, 2. Anatomy of a Fall.

This may be the first time I've seen every film by nomination day.

you had me worried, Alfred

Well, this gives me some time to catch up

Can't believe you prefer Barbie to Barbie, Alfred, u monster

of the ones I’ve seen, best to worst. I at least like all of them

killers

poor things
anatomy of a fall

barbie
oppenheimer

Can't believe you prefer Barbie to Barbie, Alfred, u monster

― Great-Tasting Burger Perceptions (Old Lunch),

Solomonic choices

This may be the first time I've seen every film by nomination day.

― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, January 23, 2024 11:14 AM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Me too?

Anatomy of a Fall
Barbie
Oppenheimer
Killers of the Flower Moon
Past Lives
Poor Things
The Holdovers
Maestro
The Zone of Interest
American Fiction

These are all 3.5- to 4.5-star movies for me.

This may be the first time I've seen every film by nomination day

I know I've done that in the past, but this year I just can't seem to get over the hump to watch Poor Things

i've yet to see a few of them. probably right now it's a close one between KOTFM and TZOI. the latter was for me a very tough one, those kinds of films are increasingly difficult viewings.

In what order is your list, jaymc?

Best to worst

The Holdovers best
Maestro worst

Looking at the list again, I see I underrated Past Lives. I prefer it to Zone.

Past Lives struck me as slight when I saw it, but it's stayed with me.

Same. A few friends saw it over the holiday break and reminded me of its subtler pleasures.

1. Poor Things
2. Past Lives
3. Oppenheimer
4. Killers of the Flower Moon
5. Anatomy of a Fall
6. Zone of Interest
7. The Holdovers

All 4 to 4.5 stars imo, gonna try to see American Fiction soon

"Slight" is a good word, as I wanted to love Past Lives, but regrettably found its writing lacking. For a film with basically only 3 characters, they are all remarkably thin -- could you give three adjectives to describe each? I doubt I could. I desperately wanted to see them (her) outside of these relationships: in class, working, etc. It seemed like the writer started with the concept and worked backwards from there -- and to literally hit you over the head with it in the final piece of dialogue was too much.

Acting was very good though, as was the cinematography and pacing, which reminded me of another recent film I liked quite a bit more, Aftersun.

one of the funniest things that happens in any of these films is the reveal in past lives that the husband's hit novel is called boner

I liked Anatomy of a Fall and Past Lives. I really liked The Zone of Interest.

Teo Yoo was the only one of that acting trio I lament not making it to his category's final five

I need to see Glazer's film, but for now it's easily Scorsese's for me.

Yeah, Zone is the other one (aside from Poor Things) i still have to catch up with. Current ranking:

Anatomy of a Fall
The Holdovers
Barbie
Killers of the Flower Moon
Past Lives
American Fiction
Oppenheimer
Maestro

I've seen all but two -- possibly a new record for me. My ranking:

Killers
Oppenheimer
Anatomy
Zone

Past Lives
Holdovers

Barbie
Poor Things

re: my Past Lives post last week, I agree with this take

https://x.com/misterminsoo/status/1751670472771530851
https://x.com/misterminsoo/status/1751674428050559028

Not entirely wrong. I responded:

I like it slightly better than you b/c I respected its director's attempt to handle silence and the unspoken. But it's nowhere near my top 20.

— Moderna Love Gets Me to the Church on Time (@SotoAlfred) January 28, 2024

Poor Things joins a number of other Nat'l Society best film picks that feel very much the result of a deadlock between the old guard and vanguard punks, likely pleasing no one all too much

LOL oops, meant Past Lives

However, to insult the audience is uncharacteristically Josh.

people on the internet love doing that

There is an article by Mick La Salle in the SF Chronicle about how to predict the best actress winner that I thought was interesting.

He has staked out an idea that best actor/actress roles either represent an apotheosis, namely inward performances that draw their power from who the actors are as people - or chameleonic performances, where the actors are in disguise as someone else. I like that idea

He thinks that chameleonic performances almost always go on to win the academy award

“Bening is certainly different from her usual manner in “Nyad,” but it’s arguable whether she’s different enough. Put her as a maybe.”

“Sandra Huller, the fantastic German actress who stars in “Anatomy of a Fall,”…doesn’t transform. She’s just like Sandra Huller in everything, which is absolutely great as far as I’m concerned but will not win an Oscar.”

“I see “Maestro” as the apotheosis of a certain kind of Carey Mulligan role….but she’s probably out of the running” (I would have added that it is also because it is a terrible movie)

He narrows it down to Lily Gladstone and Emma Stone. One performance is an apotheosis and one is chameleonic

He concludes that “Emma Stone is entirely chameleonic in “Poor Things.” Her labored performance shows us a side of her that we’ve never seen before — namely, the side that can’t act, but the academy won’t mind that. They’ll be impressed.”

He predicts that Emma Stone will win, with Lily Gladstone a close second. I haven’t seen “Poor Things” yet so don’t want to dismiss it, but I hope Lily Gladstone wins.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/entertainment/article/oscars-best-actress-prediction-18628570.php

If any of you haven’t seen Kelly Reichardt’s “Certain Women”, it is an interesting film and she is great in it

(great in a very quiet way)

Yes, she's great in it. And Emma Stone will win her second Oscar b/c the voters consist of mostly older male voters who love this kind of performance.

went with my gut and voted holdovers

killers and poor things tied for second

maybe should've waited until seeing anatomy of a fall, that one feels very up my street

There is so long even still before the Oscars actually happen that I think whatever juice there was in Gladstone’s campaign will have long ago evaporated. Clearing the way for Emma Stone to somehow have as many lead acting Oscars as Meryl Streep and Jane Fonda.

and Hillary Swank

and Luise Rainer

I was surprised by how much I liked "American Fiction." It was a lot more low-key than I expected.

Seeing it tonight!

Ooooooh, that was GOOD.

I've actually been thinking about it a lot. There's a lot of clever stuff going on, imo.

Not a fan but I don't begrudge Jeffrey Wright the Oscar nom.

I feel he's been ill-served by his various oft-egghead roles, but this suited him well.

I thought this movie had a lot to say about who gets to tell their story and how. I found it intriguing that the central drama - and it is largely a drama, interrupted by the occasional broader satiric beat - not only depicts a relatively under-represented on-screen group (upper middle class Black family) but simultaneously riffs on broken family tropes through that prism (as opposed to the broken family street cliches Monk abhors). And I thought it clever that a lot of said family drama stuff also happens to be the cliche purview of so many run of the mill (white) indie dramas. The parent with Alzheimer's, the family member coming out, the struggling novelist, etc., all of which I could imagine the subject of movies starring Paul Giamatti, the kinds of prestige movies that get awards instead of box office, which plays into the film's sort of central conflict. Not sure how much of that was intentionally, but given the chaotic/cynical nesting doll aspect of the conclusion ... maybe!

I don’t know about Oppenheimer, it seems like an embiggened version of The Imitation Game and The Theory of Everything, aka a middlebrow biopic movie about a genius scientist, but with famous actors in cameo roles. I think it is slightly better than those, but is it a Best Picture? It probably is according to the academy

Sidebar:

The Board of Governors of the AMPAS announced a new competitive Oscar category for best achievement in casting, for films released in 2025, beginning at the 98th ceremony in 2026. https://t.co/G36WifGSzP pic.twitter.com/9mWDDXth1L

— Variety (@Variety) February 8, 2024

And this year's non-Barbie controversy du année, the fact that there aren't enough American celebrity documentaries nominated for documentary feature:

https://slate.com/culture/2024/02/oscar-nominations-2024-best-documentary-michael-j-fox.html

still catching up watching these but i loved the holdovers so much

Whoa @ the best casting announcement.

of the ones I’ve seen, best to worst. I at least like all of them

killers

poor things
anatomy of a fall

barbie
oppenheimer

― truly humbled underdog (k3vin k.), Tuesday, January 23, 2024 12:18 PM (two weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

saw the holdovers earlier this week, a sweet movie but bottom tier for me of these

Funny how all the comments on that announcement are mad Oscars don't have an award for best stunts

This “give stunts an Oscar” movement is unwell and will never go away

I have been blissfully unaware of it until today

Yes, we need 257 different awards for the same performances each year but one for stunts is just ridiculous.

There are awards for stunts too, just sayin'

SAG has a stunt ensemble category

I set up a quiz for my Zoom trivia group on quotes from Best Picture winners. For me, easy as could be, but none of the six groups did better than 1.5/10. (Half-mark for the first question if you answer...you'll figure it out.) I removed the decade clues.

Quiz: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1AEcuixP0H4_vRBBciKaYT2St4n9uOMZPjV_1avTvedY/edit?usp=sharing

Answers: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1WHkAs75SHO6l_POdK1Kjh91G7NIUns8qSeShwxaU4CQ/edit?usp=sharing

The Zone of Interest
The Holdovers*
Killers of the Flower Moon
Anatomy of a Fall
Poor Things
American Fiction
Past Lives
Barbie
Oppenheimer

*i saw it alone, with low expectations, a few days before xmas, and i smuggled one very large can of beer into the theater. so my having had the perfect viewing experience for this movie def influenced my rating of it

"Best stunt" is probably a good idea for an award? It gives you a fun clip to play during the awards, it's something most people actually somewhat seem to understand (unlike something like "best editing") and it probably will give some nominations to some box office successful movies.

I'm saying it's a good idea from the Oscars standpoint, I personally don't really care

The Holdovers' trailer just seemed to go to such lengths to convince me that there's nothing to surprise me in the film. It'd be rude not to take it at its word!

I love Anatomy Of A Fall. I heard the Bacao and Steel Band version of "P.I.M.P." somewhere else recently. In a TV series, I think. I wish I could remember where. Hearing it caused my heart rate to immediately get elevated, stressful association with that song!

https://www.indiewire.com/awards/consider-this/2024-oscars-the-zone-of-interest-chances-1234951371/

This isn't the first time this week I've seen people saying it's Zone of Interest that's the stealth candidate to upset Oppenheimer. I mega doubt it, but hey, whatever keeps things interesting for (checks calendar) another entire month of this.

I don't know about that, but Sandra Hüller's performance in Anatomy of a Fall was so so great

Finished the two I hadn't seen earlier...

01. Anatomy of a Fall
02. The Zone of Interest
03. The Holdovers
04. Barbie
05. Killers of the Flower Moon
06. Past Lives
07. American Fiction
08. Poor Things
09. Oppenheimer
10. Maestro

Still haven't had a chance to see Poor Things or American Fiction just yet, but here's about how I'd put what I've seen:

Anatomy of a Fall
The Zone of Interest
Killers of the Flower Moon
Oppenheimer
The Holdovers
Barbie
Past Lives
Maestro

I've only seen six. I like-don't-love four of them, have mixed feelings about the 5th, and only really disliked one.

Killers
Poor Things
Oppenheimer
Barbie

Zone

Maestro

I've liked four out of the six I've seen. Of the four I haven't, American Fiction is the only one I still plan to (a little wary from the trailer, but I will--the rep I go to has had it "coming soon" for two months).

1. Past Lives
2. Anatomy of Killing
3. The Zone of Interest
4. Oppenheimer
5. Killers of the Flower Moon
6. The Holdovers

I've only seen three but liked them all: 1. Anatomy of a Fall 2. Holdovers 3. Killers of the Flower Moon.

(xpost) "Anatomy of a Killing"--don't know where I came up with that. (I see there's a book with that title, but not anything I have.)

Anatomy of a Murder + The Act of Killing?

That sounds like something I'd conjure up.

Ha, easy mistake I've made too

Anatomy of a Killing of the Flower Moon

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

of the ones i've seen, i'd prob go

holdovers
killers
poor things
oppenheimer
barbie
maestro

have anatomy and past lives queued up for next couple nights. i've read erasure, and some of the changes i've heard american fiction makes as an adaptation have soured me on the idea of seeing the movie. i probably will at some point. i don't foresee myself seeing zone of interest for a while, honestly.

Saw them all and liked each to some degree, but grouped by which I liked more (and order could shift depending on day or who I'm talking to):

Past Lives
Zone of Interest
Poor Things
--
Oppenheimer
Barbie
Killers of the Flower Moon
American Fiction
--
Maestro
Anatomy of a Fall
The Holdovers

Only seen 5 of these but:

Poor Things > The Holdovers > Anatomy of the Fall > Barbie > Oppenheimer

Oh and Killers in second or third place. Missed that one

Oppenheimer was boring af tbh.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

lol @ Maestro, lol @ the Barbenheimer effect

It’s funny to me that the movie I’m the least interested in seeing of these got the most votes

Presenting your Best Picture nominees for the 96th #Oscars...

American Fiction, Anatomy of a Fall, Barbie, The Holdovers, Killers of the Flower Moon, Maestro, Oppenheimer, Past Lives, Poor Things and The Zone of Interest pic.twitter.com/OKdWE3qm9n

— The Academy (@TheAcademy) March 7, 2024

the ones i've seen ranked:
1. Poor Things
2. Killers of the Flower Moon
3. Barbie
.
.
.
.
4. Oppenheimer

I haven’t yet seen The Zone of Interest but am looking forward to it. Regarding the others:

Liked:
Anatomy of a Fall
Oppenheimer
The Holdovers
Killers of the Flower Moon

Was ok with:
American Fiction (it is a pale interpretation of the book, though)
Barbie
Past Lives

Didn’t like:
Poor Things
Maestro

seen anatomy so updating my list

holdovers
anatomy
killers
poor things
oppenheimer
barbie
maestro

so maestro really sucks ass huh

Not enough ass-sucking tbh

lol

guess I never did mine:

Killers
Zone
Anatomy
Barbie
Holdovers
Oppenheimer
American Fiction
Past Lives
Poor Things
Maestro

though Maestro was still many times better than the usual worst nominee

Finally watched Anatomy of a Fall (incredible!) and had to immediately look up why they used that P.I.M.P. cover. I can’t believe Justine Triet had just been listening to it for years 😂 And I’m screaming at the idea that it could’ve been Jolene!!! That’s a whole diff movie!!! pic.twitter.com/1T3pVtUBOy

— Heben Nigatu (@hebennigatu) March 10, 2024

still haven’t seen oppenheimer or killers of the flower moon

poor things
holdovers
american fiction
anatomy of a fall
past lives
barbie
zone of interest
maestro

only disliked the bottom 2, rest were good to great. happy that prestige hollywood cinema is back!

Just watched Anatomy of a Fall the other night and thought it was just ok. Sandra Huller is great, but allowing for my lack of comprehension of the French justice system, I had some serious plausibility issues with the whole set-up. And I just didn’t find the central drama of the relationship in question very interesting, it seemed kind of rote.

final list for me of the seven I’ve seen

killers of the flower moon
anatomy of a fall

poor things
zone of interest

barbie
holdovers
oppenheimer

Just watched Anatomy of a Fall the other night and thought it was just ok. Sandra Huller is great, but allowing for my lack of comprehension of the French justice system, I had some serious plausibility issues with the whole set-up. And I just didn’t find the central drama of the relationship in question very interesting, it seemed kind of rote.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Sunday, March 10, 2024 6:25 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

flopson and I were just talking about this on twitter, but the more time passes (and the more I encounter reactions to the husband and wife’s relationship in the film), the more I’ve appreciated it. it’s a very mischievous film, a funhouse rorschach that really plays with the viewer’s preconceptions wrt gender roles within a marriage in particular. seeing how viewers have “taken sides” just solidifies my impression that that was more or less the point

the legal proceedings are relatively dull though

I can see it provoking those conversations, but for me it was such a cliche rendering of that kind of struggle in a relationship, “two writers, one successful,” it didn’t feel very carefully thought through or developed. I was pretty disappointed in the lackluster imagination of the story.

that was sort of my initial reaction! then I saw how some others saw it…

Looking like Barbie might get Best Song (pending on no vote-splitting, or is that one a ranked ballot?), and nothing else.

I like the idea that previous winners praise the each actor nominee, but just wish they would show the clips instead

Looking like Barbie might get Best Song... and nothing else.

Academy voters pride themselves on snubbing box office hits they think don't uphold the dignity that must accompany the highest honor in their noble profession. It's tradition!

downey over ruffalo, that’s a no for me

the oscars sucks

you got ‘em!

i really likw watching billie eilish singing that song. her voice is so beautiful on that one.

jon batiste song is dumb though. or boring. whatever. he's boring.

i didn't really care about any of these movies and didn't want to see most of them but i am enjoying awards shows for some reason? maybe because they are normal dumbness and i just need that for some reason. i wish they were all on netflix though like that sag awards one. it was chiller + no commercials.

you would have to pay me so much money to see maestro or oppenheimer.

Ruffalo was a little cartoonish though, wasn't he? I'm not unhappy that Downey won

haha that spielberg thing just made me laugh out loud!

downey was a lame choice, would have preferred de niro or ruffalo

de niro or ruffalo would’ve been better than downey but feel like it’s becoming pretty rote conventional wisdom that he was *bad* in the movie when he was honestly *perfectly solid* and the real problem with his character lay in the script

i loved Downey in Oppenheimer, i’m glad he won
(also i really dug Oppenheimer)

downey’s performance as The Bad Guy in oppenheimer which is far more cartoonish to me than mark ruffalo’s great comic evolution from hot and confident libertine to pathetic and humiliated chauvinist

but it really doesn’t matter lol

Wes Anderson Wins!

downey win is a lifetime recognition type of win
he was okay in a shit part

don't care about wes cuz issa rae was just wooooooooo....wow. sorry. i like the outfits.

I did not like DeNiro in Killers. I feel like he has done that role before, and better. Downey, I generally like him in most things, and I guess I agree, it's not that he was bad in this movie, per se, I just didn't really like this part of the movie at all, whether or not he was good or bad in it.

It sounded like the accessibility narrator was describing what everybody was wearing earlier, but did they stop? Or did I toggle a setting?

i woulda given it to gosling he’s having such a good time

He's one of the few actors that always seems to understand the silliness of his profession while simultaneously flipping a switch and becoming serious as needed. A good sport (like John Cena!).

yeah haven’t seen american fiction yet but sterling brown also looks like he’s having a great time

really hate “i’m just ken,” a song that just absolutely does not work at all out of context, and even in context is intentionally obnoxious

i prefer the lizzo song that starts to describe what's on screen halfway through.

yay billie! she's 2 for 2.

eilish wins every oscar for that hallway routine

I was not surprised but still surprised to learn that John Williams has been nominated 54 times.

Gosling was hot, you people, wtf

I will watch him once a week with his open shirt introducing winners

Popehat post on Bluesky:

Idea: annual segment at the Oscars where they show pictures of everyone in Hollywood outed as super rapey in the last year while “Thank Heaven for Little Girls” plays

don’t think that would go over great!

Holy shit, that keep finding ways to make the death montage worse and worse...

damn cillian looks good

killers completely shut out

Emma Stone was impressive in Poor Things but I wish Lily Gladstone had won

Truly shocked that she didn’t

deserved win for emma. oppenheimer winning is lame, at least we got whatever that al pacino thing was lol

i spy with my little eye a little movie called oppenheimer

pacino pacinos

best part of this show was ryan gosling being so relaxed while nailing his bits

unbothered by it all but oppenheimer was meh despite cast, downey jr was imo the least deserving of that cast, it was sub-spacey stuff.

the rest, meh. i dont think ill ever get over green knight not being nominated for anything tbh.

you're such a medievalist at heart, deems. not that I object. we need more such.

green knight rules, i agree

Don't really see the point of nominating 10 films if half are going to be totally ignored.

best part of this show was ryan gosling being so relaxed while nailing his bits

ryan gosling was an alumni of the 90s mickey mouse club along with britney, justin timberlake etc, he's been training for this his whole life

Am I imagining it or was the nominee list for the "minor" awards incredibly samey-samey this year? I felt like it was Zone of Interest, Oppenheimer, and Poor Things, Killers of the Flower Moon nominated for EVERYTHING.

really hate “i’m just ken,” a song that just absolutely does not work at all out of context

On the contrary, I listened to that song in my car probably 50 times before I saw the movie.

I didn't see many of the nominees this year but what I saw of Randolph's performance in The Holdovers was nothing special (only watched the first half) and "I'm Just Ken" surely should have won song over the Eilish track, though she was very winning in her acceptance speech. Godzilla Minus One a justified winner for effects. I saw The Creator on the plane and it was so mind-splittingly bad it should have been disqualified from the technical awards it was nominated for.

Gosling's built his entire life towards this moment, and, yes, the song works in the car.

There are few things more satisfying than reading the social media guy who reminds everyone as if the idea just occurred to him -- always him -- that the Oscars Don't Honor Quality.

xp eephus, you should watch all of The Holdovers.

The settings in Poor Things are a retro-future version of a Victorian Gothic sensibility. They are inventive, well staged, well-filmed and well-lit, but the story and the images are kind of all too much to take, they just become more pummeling and unpleasant as the film goes on

The aspect of it that most interests me is the filming, with the use of extreme wide angle cameras, multiple different lenses, a dramatic swirly bokeh blurring effect surrounding the characters in many of the later scenes, color-reversal film stock, and vignette techniques

i watched the trailer for poor things to see if i wanted to watch it on hulu and i got wes anderson + tim burton vibes that repelled me. so i didn't watch it.

Honestly thought Lily was going to win that one one. Can't say Emma didn't deserve it, but was way off on my prediction.

remind me never to get in a car with you guys

once poor things started to win a parade of technical awards (over killers and others) it became clear that the film had a base of support that killers just didn't have

so i wasn't surprised about emma winning, tho i was still holding out hope for gladstone

Last year aside, it seems you really can't underestimate BAFTAs as a precursor (they didn't get Everything Everywhere at all)

It was neck and neck all season, but it definitely felt like Gladstone had recaptured the momentum after her SAG win. I even predicted Poor Things for costume and production design, but didn't think that had any bearing on the actress race.

I'm not mad about Stone winning, I just hope Gladstone keeps getting cast in good roles. (I think she told Marc Maron she was going to be in something written by Charlie Kaufman?)

ah yes: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/lily-gladstone-to-star-in-memory-police-movie-1235807134/

I agree with the tweet that said there's not much in Hollywood's entire history to suggest that they'll make good to Gladstone at this point, but here's hoping

i can definitely see her getting other roles! she's so pretty. she was on Reservation Dogs, the coolest show on earth. I see television in her future. i don't think she's one of those hollywood mercy votes or whatever you want to call it. for someone you'll never hear from again.

Jodie Foster and Hilary Swank won their second Best Actress prizes a few years apart from their first; I don't see Stone suffering Swank's fate.

i watched the trailer for poor things to see if i wanted to watch it on hulu and i got wes anderson + tim burton vibes that repelled me. so i didn't watch it.

― scott seward, Monday, March 11, 2024 6:37 AM (yesterday)

I initially had this thought but it's almost an afterthought. As if they had to do an aesthetic and were like "hmm, we'll do this victorian not-quite-steampunk not-quite-Wes Anderson thing but only because we have to do something"

imo the key to understanding the Oscars is that it's for the industry by the industry so there had to be some segment of people thinking "hmm, I haven't seen Lily Gladstone in enough things to know if she's ACTING acting, or just delivering an excellent performance"

and then there's "actoring" which is what Bradley Cooper seems to be doing now. terrible

imo Bradley Cooper's best acting outside in the past year was either Guardians of the Galaxy 3 or his forced rictus grin every time Maestro didn't win

(ignore that stray "outside" pls)

Gladstone gave a subtle interiorized performance, and Oscar often doesn't reward such things.

she really nailed it, too. could have easily been one of those roles where she could come off as a cryptic stereotype but between Scorcese and her acting, I thought it was very affecting

its just too bad that her big break had to be a 3-hour torture-fest starring opposite someone who looked and sounded like a nameless dick tracy henchman and where she basically has to play "goodness". yuck. i hope she has a good therapist! and i hope she gets lots of better acting opportunities.

What about Lily Gladstone?

If you haven’t seen The Unknown Country I highly recommend it.

a leading role in a widely beloved martin scorsese movie starring leonardo dicaprio… hard to find a much better gig than that! she was great and I’m sure it’ll pave the way for some great roles in the future

i will watch the unknown country! i will watch her in anything without leo!

A thread explaining why Gladstone marries Scrunchy Face:

1. I realize that getting mad at people on the internet is silly but I was listening to a fine film podcast & they made a common error about Killers of the Flower Moon, claiming its not explained why Mollie Burkhart (Lily Gladstone) & other Osage women marry (bad) white men

— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) March 12, 2024

My big issue with KotFM is that it would have been infinitely more entertaining told from Lily’s POV instead of Leonardo’s.

lol for a second I thought Greg Kot had a radio station

Also, I hear the "there's no way this $200M movie would get financed unless it was a Leonardo star vehicle" argument on its terms, but ... do those making that argument hear how that sounds?

No. Everyone is a Hollywood exec in their mind.

I guess I don’t get the implication?

i'm no huge scorcese fan, but in watching KotFM i saw his continued focus on the kinds of psychopathic men who most easily rise to positions of power as a feature, not a flaw. that is the big story he is fascinated in and imo it deepens all of his work to see him depicting similar patterns of behavior in a different social microcosm. i can understand not enjoying the depiction, but asking scorcese to focus on the osage women's point of view is asking for him to be a totally different kind of director

yup -- otm

Yeah, plus also the source material (as I understand it, I haven't read the book) is mostly about the white characters and their nefarious doings, not about the Osage. So if there's a flaw, it's structural in the sense that once you adopt that framing, even with all the obvious efforts to involve Osage advisers and present at least some of their perspective, you're still going to be mostly telling the story of Bad White Men. Which is what the movie is (and does a good job of imo).

My main objections to Zone of Interest are also structural — it's not to do with the mostly imaginative filmmaking and fine acting, it's just to do with the story the film decided to tell. The flaw was in the conception, not the execution.

I thought KotFM was more successful than Zone of Interest in doing the thing it set out to do, but criticisms of both really revolve around the stories they chose to tell rather than how they told them or how "good" they are in their filmmaking.

I was mostly put off by DeNiro playing that character *again*. For that matter, I think, general subject aside, Scorsese has done this stuff before and better, too. The montage of murders, the pressure to turn on your dangerous benefactor, the slow-burn wait for the hammer to come down, DeNiro's character doing that thing were he is menacing while asking for something mundane. "It's nothing, just sign the paper, just a formality." "It's down at the end of this alley here. Yeah, just down the back." Like, I think there's a good movie in here, for sure, and this one isn't bad, but I think it would have been better in different hands. I liked the suggestion that it might have been better had Plemons and Leo swapped roles.

you guys are so funny lol. anyway as is well known at this point leo originally signed up to play plemons’ character, but they realized it wasn’t working and recast the whole story

Yeah, no way I'd want Plemons and DiCaprio to switch roles (again) - DiCaprio made the right call and made the film much better IMHO. Just picturing him as the heroic law enforcement agent of few words just seems dull and bland.

uh shutter island

plemons should've played ernest and sturgill simpson should've played the fbi agent

clapton should've played layla

I was mostly put off by DeNiro playing that character *again*. For that matter, I think, general subject aside, Scorsese has done this stuff before and better, too. The montage of murders, the pressure to turn on your dangerous benefactor, the slow-burn wait for the hammer to come down, DeNiro's character doing that thing were he is menacing while asking for something mundane. "It's nothing, just sign the paper, just a formality." "It's down at the end of this alley here. Yeah, just down the back." Like, I think there's a good movie in here, for sure, and this one isn't bad, but I think it would have been better in different hands. I liked the suggestion that it might have been better had Plemons and Leo swapped roles.

― Josh in Chicago,

I beg to differ: https://slate.com/culture/2024/02/killers-of-the-flower-moon-robert-de-niro-oscars-2024.html

On the contrary: Scorsese has rarely been this subtle, this poignant towards the purported victims, who never feel as such because he gives them plenty of room. I think of that beautifully staged funeral scene. This is the Scorsese of Silence, my favorite picture of his of the last twenty years, who finally figured out how to stage intense faith.

*poignancy

I agree Scorsese shows a lot of empathy for the victims, a lot more than, say, the montage of punchline death toward the end of "GoodFellas." I like his run of the past 10 years a lot more than the preceding 10 years.

I also agree DeNiro's not bad in it, I guess I just don't find the character or portrayal particularly notable in his rogue's gallery of baddies.

I actually thought Isbell might have been my favorite (male) actor in this, tbh.

what run is that in goodfellas?

the mobsters double crossed and purged?

lad do you know how to watch a movie at all i honestly have to ask

Yeah, the montage of people getting killed. I was reminded of that by something similar iirc at the beginning of this one. Unless I wasn't watching it right.

Seems to me like focusing on the inconsequently minor similarities between two very different DeNiro characters is just looking for something to get annoyed about, he's very impressive in this. And I thought the casting throughout was pretty spot on.

Maybe! I didn't dislike my viewing, but at the end I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed. That's all, really. I have been surprised by how many people I know that just didn't like it at all, but perhaps that works in the movie's favor.

you guys are so funny lol. anyway as is well known at this point leo originally signed up to play plemons’ character, but they realized it wasn’t working and recast the whole story

they also shifted the focus of the narrative. the biggest difference between book and film is that the book is more of a mystery solved by the fbi, with a much bigger role for the plemons character. in the film, you know pretty much know right away who did it, so it doesn't have the same kind of tension.

I thought that was a really intriguing, almost subversive change, tbh. I wonder if this could have been successfully made with a focus on the whodunnit. I bet it would have been more generic, that's for sure.

No way!

damn, who could have been killing the native people who were forcibly relocated to oklahoma who came
into oil money? I’m sure the book draws out the mystery but, yikes

maybe they were all huffing oil fumes that their white spouses instinctually avoided

uh shutter island

COMPLETELY different characters. The only thing they had in common was that they were in law enforcement. Same with The Departed. Plemons character isn't anguished or mentally coming apart at the seams from his own ethical dilemmas.

and LOL

I actually never read the book (despite being a fan of Grann), but - and it's been a while - I could have sworn that was a criticism I heard from a few friends, that because there's no mystery, because you know what's going on, or at least because it's obvious against the framing of an investigation, it becomes a bit of a slog. Tbc, I don't see how a good movie could even be made about this as a "mystery," since it's *not* a mystery, though I could totally see lesser hands trying and the response to the "reveal" being a bored "well, yeah."

the book is just ok and is way too long, and the ending (last 50 or so pages) is terrible

that said the first 3-4 chapters are compelling but yeah it becomes super obvious