pronunciation

Thank you,

Gregory Di Prinzio

Of course I've never heard of him and have no idea even what country he could be from. Or she. And I can barely pronounce my own name properly. So I could be less than accurate.

Is it really "loose" Suzy? I can see you folks are a bunch of kidders. I'm not even sure if Martin has really never heard of her. If someone (who has heard of her) can tell me definitely, I would be most appreciative.

All the best,
Gregory Di Prinzio

Best,
Gregory Di Prinzio

By the way, what is this place? I got here by quite a circuitous route; happily, along the way I learned how to pronounce Ngugi wa Thiong'o, Gyorgy Lukacs, Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak and others. Is this some college site or something?

If the surname is French too, my guess is more like Loose Ee-ree-zhe-ray, but my French teacher used to openly point and laugh at me in lessons, so once more I am well worth ignoring.

Thanks for the straight-answer response.

Like you, I thought LOO-chay, except with stress on the first syllable. I was unsure about the last name. I think she is Belgian.

I hate to read someone's work and not know how to say their name--it's annoying. She has some interesting things to say; you might check her out. I ran across an allusion to her while studying the poet, Wallace Stevens.

As for your latest response---that was really funny! Thanks for the chuckle.

Best,
Gregory Di Prinzio

she is french

gayatri chakravorty spivak has a top name but she is a disappointing writer-thinker i fear

Well, while we're at it----what do you think of her ideas?

On a related subject: Have you ever had this conversation with your gilrfriend or boyfriend wherein it is debated who has contributed more to the corpus of human knowledge and art, i.e., which gender has contributed most, qualitatively and quantitatively to art, science, philosophy etc...? I always get from my girlfriend an argument that runs along the lines of: because of men, the times, the culture---women were unable to contribute as much as men. This is a poor way of saying it but I think you understand. Of course there were great women artists. I think of Camille Claudel, Virginia Woolf, Dickinson, Sylvia Plath, Anne Sexton, Artemesia, etc... I guess what I'm asking is: How do you account for (what I consider an indisputable fact) the greatest artistic, scientific, or any other kind of accomplishments coming from men? I don't for a second believe that if a woman had come up with musical compositions to rival Mozart she would have somehow been suppressed or ignored. Who are the greatest painters, writers, sculptors, philosophers, scientists of all time? Men? I would say so. Is this all sophomoric? I confess I've just come from a margarita party and am a little tipsy. What I tell my girlfriend is that I believe that nothing really stands in the way of women now and that I think they have a bit of catching up to do. Of course, I'm not aware of all the great things women have contributed to human knowledge and art. I try to learn. I spend a lot of time in poetry workshops and am a poet myself. I know one thing, women are writing a lot of good poetry these days.

I'll probably regret this tomorrow,

Gregory Di Prinzio

And yes, I think we'll all agree: asking why the cultural production of women hasn't been as large of that of men is like asking why more Russians haven't been pop stars in Cambodia -- the odds of the culture have just been stacked against it. I was telling Josh the other night how we publish a series of works by early modern women: they all consist of bored Italian nuns writing books about how maybe it wasn't the worst thing in the universe for women to write books. When you have to spend four or five centuries establishing the fact that you should even be acknowledged as potential creators of cultural products, it's understandable if you wind up a little skimpy on the actual creation itself.

What sort of evens the score, if you look at it right, is feminism: surely the idea that 50% of the Earth's population have something intellectually valuable to contribute is a revolution of epic proportions.

Hello Martin,

Your first point is irrefutable.

Your second point seems an oversimplification. Are you saying that women did not affirm the aesthetic beauty of male artistic accomplishments? Or was it that women knew all along that Rembrandt really knew nothing about painting, Bach's organ work was sloppy and that Doestoyevsky was a hack, but just kept quiet in order not to make waves? My point is that if it was set by men---it was affirmed by women, many times by imitation. Did Camille Claudel (yes, I know her story) think Rodin a competent sculptor? Did she think his work accomplished, beautiful---of course. Ask any women who picks up a pen and attempts to write anything, who the greatest writer in the history of man is; if they're honest they will say Shakespeare. Am I missing the point? Every woman I've ever read in poetry, when asked about their influences rattles off the same names that everyone has assessed as being great: preponderantly male. I sometimes get the feeling that they're being disingenuous when they throw in a female influence, as if they're kowtowing to the feminist movement. You know, there have been great artists that were female, but honestly, not many are revolutionary, not many push the envelope. For instance, (poetry is my subject) take Edna St. Vincent Millay, her sonnets---now don't get me wrong, they're good---but they're not better than Edwin Arlington Robinson's. Now they both wrote around the same time, a time when women surely had access to pen and paper, and yet.... Oh, I hear you----sure it's a bit arbitrary, my opinion, that is, but I feel pretty sure more people would agree with me than disagree. But ask yourself: Cassatt or Vermeer? Look at, The Bath by Cassatt---the women's legs are disproportionately long! She looks like Lurch's wife. (I'm making a funny, only half-seriously).

Was any new movement in art, e.g., Romanticism, Realism, Impressionism, Expressionism, Cubism, etc..., started by a woman? Movements in art follow movements in philosophy, but alas, no women philosophers either. Please take me to school if I'm ignorant.

Like I said concerning poetry---I agree with your last point.

If we take only the twentieth century I think we can set aside the suppression excuse; any woman who wanted to write, Crime and Punishment, I think might have. If you look at Poetry , a Magazine of Verse, which began around 1912 or so, the editor was Harriet Monroe. Amy Lowell had no problem getting a lot of work published. No, I don't think that argument is as strong in the twentieth century. When women did get access to whatever instruments that men were using to create art, they never quite blew us away. Ok, now I falling into bathos. I like this caht we're having and would like to continue later. I'd like to go see the new Bond movie now.

Bye,

thanks for the welcome Donna,

when I figure out how to do that e-mail thing I will,

Nabisco: "have something intellectually valuable to contribute" Yes, something, but how does it compare to what men have and will contribute? Who is the female Einstein, Hemingway, Yeats, Planck, Picasso, Beethoven, Darwin, Watson and Crick?

John: I'm familiar with those names now, but haven't read nearly enough to discuss them. I'll keep in mind that Julia Kristeva (kris-teh-vuh) comes with your recommendation.

debatable, bye

But Franklin persisted on the DNA project. J. D. Bernal called her X-ray photographs of DNA, "the most beautiful X-ray photographs of any substance ever taken." Between 1951 and 1953 Rosalind Franklin came very close to solving the DNA structure.

SHE WAS BEATEN to publication by Crick and Watson in part because of the friction between Wilkins and herself.

At one point, Wilkins showed Watson one of Franklin's crystallographic portraits of DNA. When he saw the picture, the solution became apparent to him, and the results went into an article in Nature almost immediately. Franklin's work did appear as a supporting article in the same issue of the journal.

Really gotta go now.

(Make of that what you will.)

(also di prinzio = the highbrow "ilm guy who hates chicks with guitars". discuss)

This is the funniest thread for, like, three days.

Ahn-a-ees Nin is how I say it.

Bond sold out, damn Fandango. Passing on Eight Mile. Anyway, isn't it annoying when people in movie theaters act like they're in their living rooms? That's probably another thread.

Anyway, I haven't read, "To the Lighthouse" so I can't make a comparison. I have read "Jacob's Room" and "The Voyage Out". As a satirist I don't think she compares with Huxley(A.), certainly not as an all around writer, definitely not as a thinker/visionary. Neither of the books by woolf I 've read compares with, "Point Counter Point", imho. I think Huxley is my all time fav.

"Crime and Punishment" is one of my all time favorites and I consider it brilliant.

If that's a fact Phil---I'll buy it. It supports my observation. Women, having even lower t. levels than low level men must be even less intelligent.

I know, Jones, you guys are kidders. Actually, in the guitar department I prefer Al Dimeola. Come to think of it---where are the virtuoso girl guitar slingers? Yngwie Malmsteen vs. Lita Ford? (Who the hell are they? I hear the young folks say.) My girlfriend's getting a kick out of your responses: lots of, "see, see---that's what I say". I tell her you guys just haven't thought about it enough. :)

Nabisco: I think I do believe artistic talent is inborn, or talent period.I think you could have taken Mozart when he was two and locked him away in Alcatraz and he would have been the best damn jailhouse harmonica player you ever saw. What about when someone is taught and encouraged and yet still doesn't produce? How many women have to go through MFA programs before we see another "Hamlet". Does Ghandi count for a peasant? Funny how well Barry Bonds can hit a ball. When Mozart's writing symphonies at seven you can't put too much on encouragement and training. Sure he was trained from birth, so are a lot of folks, and what results is they can play a piano pretty damn well---but that's a far cry from composing, creating. Here, I'll hand you one. Are idiot savants more often men or women?

I'm going to think about what you've said.

Best,
Greg

Here's a good one: (h)ey-layn seek-sue Helene Cixous

Wha...?

its so cute when people sign their names on their posts!

Maybe it's the way people like you talk about art that puts me off. As if Dostoevsky actually IS somehow more helpful than someone who listens to you when you talk.

oh yeah, dostoyevski sucks (regardless of how one pronounces his name)

all my opinion, of course.

I think it's still there. Nabisco and Maryann point out a couple of reasons why women are (and particularly were) less likely to push at the avant garde envelope, and it isn't obvious to me that this should be a major criterion of artistic excellence, which Gregory assumes, almost explicitly. It does seem to be more of a male quality, so I think it is part of what I am trying to say.

Most of my favourite writers and artists and so on (I won't try to debate poets, since I'm pretty ignorant, but how many greater American poets have there been than Emily Dickenson?) have been men, but the disproportion is, as I said upthread, reduced greatly as the sexist imbalance in society has been reduced. Two of my three favourite living painters are female. Of living novelists, it'd be pretty even. This continuing narrowing of the apparent gap seems to me to be very strong evidence that it's all down to societal differences. We still have an unequal society, though the factors affecting this are much smaller now, but we aren't going to be able to answer this with certain proof until we have had several decades of genuine equality, enough time for female perspective to have their proper influence on criticism and academia.

Why Ned loves introspective English rock music = now so, so mercilessly and abundantly clear :)

Whether you believe it or not, it seems pretty self-evident to me that if there'd've been a woman Einstein in the 18th century, she'd've been ignored even if she'd've been able to spin gold from the ether

Grr, grr! But I've confessed that little fact of my upbringing before. ;-)

Your first two sentences make it difficult for me to determine how exactly you rank E. Bronte; first, she is above Shakespeare and Dostoyevsky, then she is equal to Dostoyevsky, finally you would (if you were to write) prefer the writing be, quality-wise, Dostoyevskian rather than Brontean.

This murkiness aside, I donÕt think a lack of intelligence is an obstacle to your attempting a literary work of art---you sound frightfully intelligent. What I am hearing is that, for you, philanthropy is more important, expedient and necessary than art. I donÕt have a problem with that. I really am unsure also, what the Òdirty mud slinging struggleÓ refers to---some real or imagined competition with your male colleagues?

Why you donÕt try to do it is because, as you say, you donÕt see the value of it. You ask, who does it help? Why, Maryann---it helps YOU. You said so yourself.
Ò
People like youÉÓ----not very nice, Maryann.

ÒAs if Dostoyevsky Is somehow more helpful than someone who listens to you when you talk.Ó Maryann, DostoyevskyÕs work IS his Good ListenerÕs Diploma! Do you catch my drift? How is someone who listens to you when you talk, but has no advice to offer, no wisdom, going to be more helpful than someone who gives such insight as D. does into human nature? How do you think you write novels like his---without listening to people?

Nothing is fundamentally at odds with you---write about the people who listen to you then, valorize them; after all, itÕs not D. we learn from, but the characters.

LetÕs define some terms here:

ÒGood art possesses a kind of super-truth---is more probable, more acceptable, more convincing than fact itself. Naturally; for the artist is endowed with a sensibility and a power of communication, a capacity to Òput things across,Ó which events and the majority of people to whom events happen, do not possess. Experience teaches only the teachable, who are by no means as numerous as Mrs. MicawberÕs papaÕs favorite proverb would lead to suppose. Artists are eminently teachable and also eminently teachers. They receive from events much more than most men receive and they can transmit what they have received with a peculiar penetrative force, which drives their communication deep into the readerÕs mind. One of our most ordinary reactions to a good piece of literary art is expressed in the formula: ÒThis is what I have always felt and thought, but have never been able to put clearly into words, even for myself.Ó

ÉAldous Huxley/Collected Essays/Tragedy and the Whole Truth

ÒArt, as I have said, is also philosophy, is also science. Other things being equal, the work of art which in its own way ÔsaysÓ more about the universe will be better than the work of art which says less. (The Òother thingsÓ which have to be equal are the forms of beauty, in terms of which the artist must express his philosophic and scientific truths.) Why is ÒThe RosaryÓ a less admirable novel than ÒThe Brothers KaramazovÓ? Because the amount of experience of all kinds understood, Òfelt into,Ó as the Germans would say, and artistically recreated by Mrs. Barclay is small in comparison with that which Dostoyevsky feelingly comprehended and knew so consummately well how to re-create in terms of the novelistÕs art. Dostoyevsky covers all Mrs. BarclayÕs ground and a vast area beside.Ó

ÉAldous Huxley/Collected Essays/Vulgarity in Literature

I think youÕre just not convinced of the value/worth of art. Maybe (since I donÕt know you, IÕm guessing) great art does not play a huge role in bringing to your life the sort of fulfillment it does mine. Life without art would be unendurable for me. I go to art for beauty, inspiration, escape, idealism and insight into human nature---to understand myself, to enjoy what is lovely, what is lovingly crafted.

Tad: DonÕt be so laconic. Are they rationing words around here? WouldnÕt it be better to explain why/how D. sucks? You know that you are in the minority with that opinion. IÕm guessing youÕre just being ornery. Who sucks is not on point.

When I read Dickens, e.g., David Copperfield, after page after page of his emotional tyranny I want to go dig him up and kick the crap out of him. That man bludgeons with pathos past the point when IÕm already in complete sympathy with the character.

Martin: I think you know that many great artists are still, in the grand scheme of things, merely imitators. A few really greats come along every hundred years or so---the rest are influenced by them. Look how many poets were influenced by Eliot, novelists influenced by Hemingway---itÕs not a criterion of artistic excellence---itÕs a sign of the rarest kind of brilliance.

All I have time for now,

Love Greg

LetÕs try not to slide into personal attacks, please. IÕm beginning to sense this in some quips that were made.

Tracer hand: The question was: How do you account for it? I guess the answer you're putting in my mouth is a projection.

The reason I'm interested in the woman (luce) is because I think she has some good ideas, good points and is rather unique. But I confess I need to read of her besides an interview, an essay and some lady's dissertation that had mostly to do with Wallace Stevens.

Some things are not allowed to be true.

The "equal" society will be premeditated in a way that the "patriarchal" society never was. I don't doubt that if women's "equality" is what is desired it can be "achieved". Given strange years the creator of Harry Potter may some day be venerated above Shakespeare. Water down criticism enough and we'll be done with Donne.

Best,
Greg

John (D) - what age are you?
Have you ever had a moustache?
and mark s - I don't get it. But don't you explain cos y'll say something like 'what does the colour of jigglypuff tell you about the moon?' and then I'll only be more confused by yr analogies so I'll throw the explanation-duty to the threatening kisser, John, please.]

I had a moustache for a couple of weeks once when my Mexican girlfriend had opined that she'd always thought men should have moustaches -- I looked awful with it & finally had to stand my ground

why do you ask?

ObThread: "premeditated" societies like those the threadstarter refers to a few posts back are almost invariably disasters, unless they're communes, in which case replace "almost invariably" with "often."

No, I do not ever have that conversation with my girlfriend or boyfriend.

But do you think by having this conversation with you your girlfriend may have a role in the creation of your ideas or your art? How do you know where to draw the line when assigning credit for artistic creation, since, as you imply, we all owe a great debt of influence to what has gone before?

Regards,

felicity

She does help modify the way I look at things. She has helped me to appreciate great women of arts and letters. I think I'll ask Gigi to post a thought or two when she gets home.

Everything in life is an influence. I must just as well give credit to to a person who says my rough draft sucks, or the wind. At some point the artist has to do the real work of creating, which entails deciding what influences will help shape the work, what to keep, what to throw out.

Do you like women's art? What do you think of Jorie Graham? Do you like her poetry? Do you understand it? How would you compare her work to that of Richard Wilbur, Howard Nemerov, or even Billy Collins?

Who do prefer Jane Austen or Emily Bronte?

I enjoyed Mary Shelley"s "Frankenstein" more than Bronte's "Wuthering Heights".

Would you say E. Bronte was equal to D.?

Mark: If I am not intelligent because of what you think you hear me saying about women then neither was Nietzsche or Schopenhauer. You're not about to call N. unintelligent are you? Gawd, I hope not.

My turn: When the world is made "equal" how will that not be another of man's accomplishments?

All the best,
Greg

Did anyone else just think "I give up" at this point?

??

Anne Rice responded:

"I treasure the compliment about understanding men. I am really always writing about myself, and I've never felt entirely comfortable with the label "woman". I don't really understand the meaning of " feminine gender", and if I do understand men better-it's something natural and innate. I went with it as a writer, and didn't try to bend it in any way, and I'm glad that I did. "

Best,
Greg

An "African-American Literature" techer that I am friends with knows Ngugi....quite well from what i understand.....

do you think that believing (what you think) nietzsche or schopenhauer believed about women is evidence of your intelligence?

is this a case of "deciding what influences will shape [your ideas]?" how did you come to believe they were right before you believed they were right?

other people upthread have read some of the same books you have, but have drawn entirely different conclusions. how do you know they're wrong?

thanks for the chuckles,
dlh

I think that yes, women can fit into all the male slots, to use an inappropriate metaphor - we can produce a situation where women spend their lives slaving away producing masterpiece novels and paintings just as often as men, and then get really excited about the fame and give obnoxious interviews ... I mean yes, women can be turned into men, and they are being, by the relentless weight of this machine that insists that humans spew out more and more production of a higher and higher quality. Why not enslave everyone at every possible opportunity? I don't see any alternative, either ... I just don't think GdP's question is inherently stupid, though maybe the reasons for asking it were a bit confused.

1. Dostoevsky
2. Char Bronte
3. my former roommate's boyfriend

i think the questions directed at his evaluation of his own intelligence are coming in response to the perception that greg's arguments are self-serving. the only thing he seems to be interested in discussing about the artists and writers he's mentioned here is how they rank on his hierarchical scale of greatness. his spectrum of value has only one axis (better, worse, or equal), and as such it isn't very interesting, however controversial his assessments may be. and as a man who's reserving all the places in his pantheon for the usual canon of dead white males, he's open to the criticism that he's doing so because he feels/hopes/wishes that he, too, is touched by genius.

i think the crux of this discussion might be: in what way do you think that women producing masterpieces (by whatever definition) have been (or are being) "turned into men"? by what specific definition (not just a list of historical examples) is artistic genius inherently male? i'd say it isn't, and that a brilliant author who happens to be a woman is no less of a genius, and no less of a woman.

Hewitt - I guess what I meant was - the discourse we partake in was created by literate males, basically for the consumption of literate males. It hasn't changed much and you could argue that when women produce within that discourse, by necessity they can only use that language or else they'd be silent. Therefore, what passes through them is male - I'm not saying they 'are' men in a biological sense.

i wonder what happend to 'Gregory di Prinzio' and 'doctor love hewitt'?

if she is Spanish,

LOO thay
ear ee ga RYE

if she is South American

LOO say

envoy?

The word almond pisses me off. I don't even like almonds. I will continue to pronounce it ahl-mond until the day I die. Don't fob me off with ah-mond, please.

al mond, was the least well known member of the ratpack.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/ahd4/pron/E0168700.wav

yeah, you know, like "envelope"

almond van helden

Ohm-velope? Never, envelope 'til the day I die.

on-voy

Just heard on St. Louis public radio: "intriguing" with the first G pronounced as a J.

Sounds rather gingoistic to me.

don't be so jug mental

IN TREE, JING!

How many women have to go through MFA programs before we see another "Hamlet".

It's a toss-up whether the subway driver will pronounce Judiciary Square as

Ju-dih-SHEE-ary
or
Ju-dih-SHOO-ary

Dictionary.com has added a handy feature, below each definition, that speaks the word in question out loud. (Actually, that button has always been there, but up until recently you had to pay $15 a year, I think, to use it).

It was nice to come home yesterday after school and hear the computer clearly say "hec-tair". My professor insists on pronouncing hectare as "hec-tar", rhymes with car, and it drives me nuts.

Wotta bastard.

CA-rik-a-ture

ca-RIK-a-ture

it is NOT "en-dive," but "on-deev." americains.

Names, dammit. Always with the names. I always feel like a jackass when saying "Borges". I cannot bring myself to pronounce it correctly, as I feel like a major assjack when I do so.
Still, I will ask... how am I supposed to pronounce "Messiaen"?

do all Brits pronounce 'scallop' SKA-llop, or does it depend on class?

'ska' like the music? i'd be surprised if anyone said it like that

yeah, someone on the BBC did

and we all do.

Why, how do you?

'challops' ?

i pronounce it SKA-llops, because I heard a Mainer say it that way once

and let me add that i pronounce stuff the wrong way all the time, i have since i was a kid, and it doesn't bother me, but i think it's funny when it bothers other people

Maine is part of Great Britain

the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and the Kennebunks

how am I supposed to pronounce "Messiaen"?

Do you know that nasal sound in French such as in 'vin', 'pain', 'sein', where the 'ain/in' is pronounced like the 'a' in ban but the 'n' is not pronounced? His name is pronounced 'Messy-AIN'.

the Americanized pronunciation is Meh-SEE-en

there's a pronunciation nazi at work and ever since she has been here she has tried to correct my pronunciation to the point where she sounds like she is questioning my english skills

and i say, well i've always pronounced it like that and i tell her maybe it's a canadian thing, and she says "no, it's wrong" and makes an irritated face

i google it and send her the link that says it's a canadian pronunciation and she says "that's weird"

i just blew her mind with regina

i just blew her mind with regina

If you want to drive her batty, try her out with Cairo, Illinois.

canadians pronounce the name of that city differently?

i'm kind of scared to even ask her to be honest

Youre both right, Canadians pronounce stuff wrong

But fuck her bad manners anyway

lol

dmac aren't you irish

Wrong vs perfected

lol

high five for the laughs

An American corrected your pronunciation of the capital of Saskatchewan?

Portrayal of Canadian accent in any given cultural effort: lol foolish noises

Portrayal of Irish accent in any given cultural efdort: this is a crafty drunk poet with a heart of gold and a fierce want for something beyant reach

xp

intestines

Benefit of being a professor (and no longer looking like a student): no one does that to me anymore. Occasionally, I catch a student pronouncing "processing" my way and silently count a win.

.......Ok break it down for us

Processing as in the same stresses as procession?

First syllable: same as "program(me)"

Pro

Are you bragging about being able to pronounce pro as pro

I'm bragging about not being corrected or made fun of for it.

canadian-in-the-usa problems

I shouldn't mock i mean you're fighting the good fight amongst savages i spose

let's call it even from last time

I'm still unclear on what intestines have to do with Regina btw.

i pronounce it in-tes-tynes

the last i pronounced like the letter "i"

same with regina, because she pronounces it re-gee-na and it looked like her world was crumbling

i was just picking a random example with the letter "i" i guess

Oh, yeah, I knew someone named "Re-jee-na". I imagined that was the Latin pronunciation? Question: in criminal trials that are all R. (Regina) vs. someone, how is "Regina" pronounced?

Do Americans pronounce the last syllable of "intestines" like "tins"?

yes to the second question

we were having a conversation about what i was eating tomorrow and i said it a few times, each time with her repeating it her way, til i actually said something about it

Do Americans pronounce the last syllable of "intestines" like "tins"?

So do Brits.

i think that's why she thought she was "calling me out on it" because i think she said she has a thing for british accents

Imagine doing that to someone with any other sort of accent. 2xp OK, or maybe this is an awkward way of flirting?

i don't want to get into that in this thread because this is ilx

but ya i think there's tension of the good variety let's say (not interested but hey it's a slow day)

She crazy and hot I'm guessing

She's not hot

But i also teased her a lot (uh not the making fun kind of teasing) then ignored her and she went batshit crazy and now gives me an attitude

You wouldn't need to be Sherlock Holmes...

does your pianist sound like penis?

There's a T at the end of it. My pianist.

does your pianist sound like penis with a t?

i thought there was a bigger difference between AmE and BrE pianist

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/pianist

according cambridge no?

Petaluma here pronounces it that way as well as with the accent on the second syllable. Apple's Oxford only gives the same pronunciation as Cambridge for either American or British English.

We just hired a pianist here. I think everyone pronounced it the Cambridge way?

yeah, american english pianist according to cambridge sounds accurate in my experience

but i thought british english pianist was pronounced a lot different than what cambridge says

The Brits and Australians on forvo all pronounce it that way.

does your pianist sound like penis with a t?

No.

I suffer from Scottish short vowels, maybe that's why the two words are so obviously different.

good call guys

thank you

PEE AH NIST

vs PEENIS

think i just misheard someone talk fast in a british english dialect i couldn't recognize or something

Yeah, my penis is very short because of the short 'e', my pianist has two vowel sounds and feels almost twice as long as my penis.

both pronunciations of "presage" sound wrong

it's just an awkward-ass word anywhere but in writing

No, it's an alternate dimension populated by bored geniuses and assorted drunks.
― kate, Saturday, 23 November 2002 10:17 AM (fifteen years ago)

presage is right up there with pedant for me
presage also sounds better as a noun in spanish (presagio)

Jim Croce.

Isn't it close to the wool manipulation thing except the second syllable sound is a bit rougher? so croachay rather than crochet?

If it's pronounced the Italian way, yes. I've never heard anyone speak his name though.

CROH-chee

Autechre

I saw them a few years ago, discussed them with the guy who cuts my hair, and still have no clear idea how I am supposed to say this out loud

awe-tecker

stress on first syllable?

that's what i thought but honestly had no idea

AWE-duh-curr

recently at work we were discussing words that you pronounced incorrectly (or idiosyncratically, as it were) for so long that even though you learned the received pronunciation and use it, there is always a slight pause that betrays what is etched too deep in your brain to ever overwrite... for me, the word "camaraderie" which is more of a broken bridge than a mispronunciation, unless I'm vigilant and can mentally picture "comradery" before the word crosses my lips. by broken bridge I mean a word that I often read in books but never learned to pronounce, and will derail any spoken sentence it appears in and send it into the muddy river. one of our work studies always crashes and burns on "bilingual" which is ironic because she is... bilingual. so she always says "I speak two languages" instead!

xpost yes stress on first syllable (I think!)

i mispronounced the word "pedant" recently (after the person i was talking to released some nuclear-grade pedantry) and idk if i will ever forgive myself for the error
more likely, i will never call anyone a pedant out loud again because it will always remind me of this time, when I lobbed an assault on pedantic behavior by mispronouncing "pedant"
¡¡¡¡¡the shame!!!!

to the accused pedant's credit, he did not correct me
for that i will always be grateful and also ashamed because clearly i called a kind person a pedant

so i get where you are coming from re: broken bridges

I think I lean on pedantic and pedantry due to uncertainty about how to pronounce pedant!

same

i normally do too but it was heat-of-the-moment and i was (mildly) pissed -- i regret not maintaining my chill and using the words i knew how to pronounce correctly! oh well.

Aw tech ray

You’re welcome

I always thought the emphasis was on the second syllable! Most people I knew pronounced it in a quasi-French way but then I read that the last syllable was supposed to be pronounced "er" like in "theatre" or "centre".

It’s ray not er

Weidenbaum: You could use your human names, but you chose something with “tech” in the center of it. How do you pronounce it? How do you pronounce Autechre?

Booth: awe-teh-ker.

Weidenbaum: A million Internet debates just came to a halt.

Booth: That’s how we pronounce it.

mispronouncing pedant in that context is kind of a genius troll move

the word "camaraderie" which is more of a broken bridge than a mispronunciation, unless I'm vigilant and can mentally picture "comradery" before the word crosses my lips.

I'm a bit confused tbh. Am I reading this wrong? Camaraderie isn't pronounced "comradery".

Also how are people mispronouncing pedant? Pee-dant or something?

Half expecting to have to go to the Things you are shockingly old when you learnt them thread now.

I still feel a strange mixture of regret and awe for the series of emails I had with a friend and former colleague a few years ago when I unseriously drew attention to a grammar mistake in an email he'd sent round, and in his light-hearted response he made a v similar grammar mistake, which I ofc felt obliged to correct in the same manner, and then with the next two responses he made similar mistakes, and I felt trapped in a death spiral and I couldn't work out if he was trolling me and I stopped enjoying it almost immediately and in the end I think we both felt we had been defeated

kind of wondering how Ross feels right now

he never teh-ker

Camaraderie isn't pronounced "comradery".

haha, it is when I say it! I paste over the pronunciation for comradery when I'm talking because A. they mean the same thing and B. if I don't my mouth will crash on "camaraderie". this is to illustrate that there are some words you mispronounce, learn the preferred pronunciation and decide to use it, and it seems to replace the old pronunciation without much trouble. but we were talking at work about how we all seem to have a handful of words where the old way cannot be erased, and you are forever performing a sort of clunky, halting mental replacement in your mind every time you say the word aloud.

Feel what I feel when I’m feeling (in the sunshine )

Thanks for asking tracer. Don’t know if it was sarcasm but ya know

Wait now I'm confused about how to say pedant.

Wait now I'm confused about how to say pedant.

yeah I'm not sure how to pronounce ILXor either

hehehe

mispronouncing pedant in that context is kind of a genius troll move

― ogmor, Friday, May 4, 2018 4:39 AM (fourteen hours ago) Bookmark

i am choosing to see it this way, thank you for the reframing

also there is another way to pronounce camaraderie aside from "comraderie"?!

yeah I too am struggling w/ this one. How else would you say it?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedant

Camaraderie is pretty phonetic ca ma ra derie

The Spanish word for comrade is "camarada" it's basically that with rie on the end

but what would be an alternate pronunciation?

oh I see maybe dropping the second syllable

pedants who pedon’t

cam vs cahm?

I’m confused about why people are confused

Of course there’s an alternative pronunciation than “comraderie”, it’s “camaraderie” - unless you pronounce “comrade” as “camarad” they’re pretty distinct

on the day that's in it

yanks why do ye keep saying python like that

puh THAWN?

Python and On and On

its really strange imo

I get to fight the lie-on!

it's probably because pythin' is Southern American English slang for masturbating

cot-tawn eye joe

do ye wanna see me python