WAKE UP DEAD MAN: more Benoit Blanc Benoit Blancing via Rian Johnson and Daniel Craig, due 2025

As noted here:

https://x.com/rianjohnson/status/1794005920898502741

After all these years, it’s the first time U2’s Pop has had any influence on the culture at large…

Radiohead, Beatles, U2

i cannot believe anyone watched glass onion and wanted more of this

it won't surprise you to learn that U2 bit that title from an old blues song

i cannot believe anyone watched glass onion and wanted more of this

The first film was fun. The actors and director had fun making it. Audiences had fun watching it. It grossed beaucoup bucks. The makers concluded from this that a sequel would earn beaucoup bucks and all they had to do was repeat the formula, have fun and entertain themselves.

They forgot the part about audiences having fun. The sequel grossed beaucoup bucks anyway. The makers drew one important conclusion from this. Maybe they'll be proved right.

The sequel grossed beaucoup bucks anyway.

citation needed

i think Netflix said it did well for them

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/64RTtSZP6SA/hqdefault.jpg

yeah 2nd one only made 15 million at the box office but it was barely in theaters. It seemed to be popular on netflix despite no-one I personally know liking it

Yeah the theatrical run was I think over a Thanksgiving weekend and only in select theaters, typical Netflix stuff. Seemed like a self-own to me on that front.

I didn't really like either one but I thought Glass Onion was more fun. The wrestler in a banana hammock was funnier than anything in Knives Out.

Okay various cast members have been announced over the past week:

Cailee Spaeny
Josh O'Connor
Andrew Scott
Jeremy Renner
Mila Kunis
Glenn Close
Kerry Washington
Daryl McCormack

Plus rumor mill says Tom Hardy and Lindsay Lohan, which would be a combo.

And we got first teaser:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRqU2276eaQ

!

This series has no fear of being corny af. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Been catching up on Poker Face and thinking about how Gen X Rian Johnson's reference points are — this real love of '70s pop entertainment, the murder mysteries and detective shows.

My not-so-measured opinion on this is that I’m certain I will love it, any haters can gargle on my nutsack for all I care

Don’t understand the hate for Glass Onion

there are some very well considered answers to that question on the other thread, Boring

Glass Onion was way better than Knives Out, maybe this will rise above occasionally amusing.

whaat

is there a missing comma? or is it like part of a to-do list?

tuesday:
get coffee
drop off e-waste at city recycling center
wake up dead man
lunch with terry

take it up with mr b. vox

I should maybe take this to the other thread, but one of things I appreciated about Glass Onion is that they didn't have to make a second film, and when they did, they could have made Knives Out II, and they didn't, it was very much its own thing. I'm looking forward to seeing what this is - maybe it'll be their A Haunting in Venice!

I sincerely hope the twist doesn't hinge on the missing comma

Wake up dead, man...

Seeing raves for Josh O'Connor's performance.

rewatching glass onion and it seems kind of like poker face season 2 to season 1, sillier, looser, ultimately less satisfactory but still quite enjoyable

Okay, new trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHM1K1JByBI

locked room mystery, I'm in

One last trailer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hc8yz5-d5Y

But, repeating myself from elsewhere as I just saw an early screening: three for three, Johnson and Craig et al can do wrong, completely right at my mental pleasure center once more when it comes to ensembles, whodunits, the whole nine yards. The accent's as thick/wonderful/crazy as ever, the meta is there once more in the best way, Josh O'Connor holds his own very well, deeply hilarious when it needs to be, harrowing when it needs to be. The vibe is spooky story as much as anything else, and it's a treat. It is also, without being a faith-based film at all, easily one of the most engaging and serious religious films I've seen in quite a while, overtly Catholic by default (all the more striking given Johnson was raised Evangelical) but beyond that, while at the same time I know my hardcore atheist mom will love it as much as my firmly Anglican dad will and the relaxed agnostic in me appreciated it all. Fun cameos too. I hope they make a million more of these in whatever way they want to go.

Seeing this with extended family first thing Wednesday morning!

Rian Johnson let slip on bluesky that he passed on a Benoit Blanc + Muppets mystery

that would be so great omg.

I don’t think it was anything formal, just that he was aware of the meme and didn’t think it would actually work.

he’s wrong

maybe he’s saving up that move for a foghorn leghorn joint

that's what a cold winter night is made for, cozying up and enjoying a foghorn leghorn joint.

Liked this one. Easily the most (sorry) soulful of the three.

There it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJxzhUAGBDw

Meantime, I quite like this. (Read it only after you've seen the film.)

I need to see this a second time

Okay, today's the Netflix day.

ooh thx

Netflix Day, the Day of Light

is Josh O'Connor nude in it

only if you believe in it

The Masterbehind

But, anyway, his performance caps a remarkable year: four distinct performances.

Truly. (And if you want to do a double feature, The Mastermind just landed at MUBI today in turn.)

About half an hour in and I've laughed loudly three times.

And more to come!

saw it in the theater and had a blast. it meandered a bit in the middle in a way that made me worry, but it stuck the landing.

is rian johnson's first name pronounced like ryan or ree-an (or something completely different)

like Ryan afaik

ty

As usual the plotting is whatever, but I'm a Big Sleep plot-doesn't-matter guy. It does pull off a more credible discussion of faith and Catholicism and obligations than more serious films. Thanks again, Josh O'Connor.

Really has. I love Saeed Jones's thread and the replies to it -- the phone call scene is destroying people, unsurprisingly.

https://bsky.app/profile/theferocity.bsky.social/post/3m7vfzuldvk2k

Confession and guilt are so often invoked in this movie not (just) in the murder-mystery sense, but as something weightier. In fact, the murder itself is almost ancillary to the story, in a weird way. It drives the story, of course, but the resolution is so much more soulful than clever. Though the movie is very clever, too, and pretty funny as well. The first Knives Out may still be the best, but this one is the deepest, for sure.

Yeah we liked this a lot. Josh O’Connor really gives it some heart and soul. Brolin really establishing himself as Gen X Jeff Bridges. (To the degree that the Lebowski references felt related.) Also it made me wonder if Johnson is a Mike Flanagan fan, this is kind of in his territory.

Also the rare movie with two lead Joshes. :)

It's such a shame that Netflix doesn't really mess with physical media, because it would be nice for fans to buy this one or the previous one.

goddamn i really enjoyed this. really moved me, different tone than the other two, but maybe for me the richer for it.

Josh O’Connor is such a lovely actor, so many depths and layers to him.
(Also this is a guy who somehow made fkn CHARLES sympathetic in The Crown which is a fuckin magic trick if there ever was one so he’s forever goated to me)

And deploying Bridget Everett for that phone scene was incredible, laser precise casting. Fucking beautiful, as always, forever.

Brolin too. Love the way he can show up for these quirky non-starring roles & just blow the doors off. Good shit.

Watched it last night - lowkey the most rational and humane take on the benefits and pitfalls of religion I can remember seeing, plus a cracking yarn of course. Here's to many more.

Yeah, I can't remember the last 'big' movie that took religion so seriously, without a clear "religion is, actually, good/bad" bent.

It reminded me a lot of the Father Brown stories - I should reread them, but I remember (found myself typing "ah recall") that one of them ends with him pointedly not telling the police who the murderer was, so that he can hear their confession (and I think the murderer might go off and kill themselves, but no bother to Father Brown, he got the confession - this is obviously a punch pulled in this film with "By the time I saw the blue lips, I knew she was already done for").

I remember seeing Pulp Fiction in the cinema and Marvin's shooting in the car dumbfounded me - it's not the obvious comparison but the phonecall scene did something similar: "Did they do that? Can they do that?"

Glenn Close took too gargoyle-ish a turn in the last third, but it's her most entertaining performance in years.

yeah she was great

If you wanna see how sexy O'Connor can be, find the 2017 Morbs-approved God's Own Country, a UK variant on Brokeback Mountain.

not to bring this heavy conversation down to my usual level of stupidity, but I had a hard time figuring out whether the church was supposed to be Episcopalian or Catholic. Like the church was founded by Josh Brolin’s grandfather? And I don’t recall seeing any Catholic Church in the New World with a cemetery around it although I noticed in the credits it was an Anglican church in the UK.

this movie is fine but I'm not sure it deserves hyperbolic praise? like, the phone call scene...this is just good screenwriting. it's effective but I don't know why people would find it so transformative unless they like, never watch decent drama. I also felt like the characterizations of half the potential suspects are pretty scant given the run time. In general I think this film succeeds in part because of lowered expectations; I expected to hate it after disliking the second one, but it was better than that, so, ok.

I'm pretty certain the church has to be Episcopalian because 1) the grandfather had a child, which wouldn't have (acceptably) happened in a catholic church and 2) the confessions are done face-to-face, which doesn't usually happen in Catholic church either (it can, but it usually doesn't)

I can't remember the last 'big' movie that took religion so seriously, without a clear "religion is, actually, good/bad" bent.

Conclave?

Huh, I thought only Catholics had confession. Though come to think of it, I think I once went to an Episcopalian wedding, and maybe there was kneeling there, and I thought that was only a Catholic thing, too.

The phone call, I'm with akm, generally. I had to think back to what some were talking about - the phone call? which phone call? - until I figured it was the one with Bridget Everett. Not that the scene wasn't good, it was really beautiful, but I thought it was there mostly to underscore the innate goodness/faith/commitment/selflessness of the priest, who like de Armas in the first one is presented as a maybe flawed but still inherently good, honest person, especially set against people who are decidedly not that. It was a way to show his faith so deep that he would put his own freedom at stake to do the thing he was put on this earth to do. Akin to his own near-confession at the police station, a very Christlike move meant to bring conclusion and peace to his community.

I took it as Catholic. Are there any Episcopal churches named “Our Lady of” etc? (Serious question, I don’t know of any but also I’m not an expert on church names.) I don’t remember the whole backstory, but didn’t the grandfather’s daughter come from his life before he joined the church?

Catholics scan it as Catholic, fwiw: https://uscatholic.org/articles/202512/in-wake-up-dead-man-benoit-blanc-goes-to-church/

Monsignor also apparently a strictly Catholic title according to Wikipedia

If you wanna see how sexy O'Connor can be, find the 2017 Morbs-approved God's Own Country, a UK variant on Brokeback Mountain.

I'd absolutely forgotten he was in that (with a crap Yorkshire accent iirc)

I noticed in the credits it was an Anglican church in the UK.

I called that it was in the UK while watching the film - the church looked very English. Turns out it's in Epping Forest, not too far from where I live in East London.

the church looks very much like the rectory down the road from me. Which has been there since medieval times and was built upon in the 18th and 19th centuries. I was thinking maybe old US churches look very much like Brit ones.

the episcopal church is essentially diet catholic imo

To answer my own question, it’s definitely Catholic on reflection. I was just confused by the grandfather thing and the obviously English-countryside outdoor shots of the church, which the Episcopalians imitated in the 19th Century.

I was thinking maybe old US churches look very much like Brit ones.

Yes, the Episcopal churches in older parts of the East Coast US definitely replicate the Ye Olde Englishe style. Tudor Gothicky.

The colonial era Anglican churches in the US were very Georgian, though. the Gothic Revival took hold in the 19th Century.

I was Catholic and the dialogue and ceremonies all coded Catholic to me imo

the episcopal church is essentially diet catholic imo

I call it ‘relaxed Catholic,’ having been raised Episcopalian. That’s why I love Anglican guilt complexes: they don’t exist.

yeah confession et al all felt handwavey Catholic more than anything

the ginormously tall pulpit is an English affectation, right? I’ve only come across it in English movies, never seen one irl.

Almost looks like yr preaching from the prow of a huge ship, v intimidating!

This was really good, but I thought that visually, it looked a lot more Netflix'y than the other two. Which was too bad. Still, I could watch ten of these films, and I hope they keep on trying to make each one different from the last.

Don't think I've ever seen that sort of tall pulpit in a Catholic church.

Thought the pulpit was a reference to the one Orson Welles preaches from in the 1959s Moby Dick movie.

prow/pulpit was terrifying, VG otm

I loved the organ interruption

also "I should have led with that" lololol

this was much better than Glass Onion but I agree that the suspect pool felt a little underdeveloped, a couple of short scenes of them all bickering in church meetings woulda helped

read on bsky "what I like about Benoit Blanc movies is that they aren't about Benoit Blanc" which I think is a good point

He's not the focus, but I do love that our new serial hero is a gay Southern atheist who plays Cats in the car.

well, yeah

Also Phantom, dude likes his Sir Andrew Lloyd.

Oh, and for what it's worth, it didn't look very Netflixy to me on the big screen, which is another reason I wish Netflix released it on physical media. By and large I feel Netflix. looks like shit.

Firing this up in 10 minutes, more later

ftr Ive had three friends in the last 24 hours go, "Who's the lead priest with the big ears, he's great!"

Really good. Glad they veered away from the action-comedy direction they started to point towards on Glass Onion. This feels much more of itself. More in the spirit of the first one

Some superb performances throughout, I did come away feeling like I never really got to know some of the characters though. There were a remarkable number of expository scenes with characters narrating. I could have done with a bit more showing and less telling.

But that's a nitpick about a really fun film

Aces.

I'm pretty certain the church has to be Episcopalian because 1) the grandfather had a child, which wouldn't have (acceptably) happened in a catholic church and 2) the confessions are done face-to-face, which doesn't usually happen in Catholic church either (it can, but it usually doesn't)

― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Sunday, December 14, 2025 8:56 AM (thirteen hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

it’s catholic, it was said explicitly in the film and there are all sorts of clues

this was ok — funny, plenty of heart, but the benoit character was less compelling than prior installments and I’m sorry, the movie is just too long for such a shaggy dog plot

A feeling I had shortly after watching this (and the same thing has happened with other streaming-centered films): a flash of anger and frustration that this didn’t get a real theatrical run.

I think for recent things like this and "Frankenstein," it took some directorial pressure and I presume some good contract negotiation to even get what they got. Same thing for home video. Netflix doesn't do that much, but Scorsese (for example) got "The Irishman" to Criterion, as Del Toro will I'm sure with "Frankenstein," too. It's nuts to me that "Glass Onion" can't be purchased on physical media, and I presume there are no plans for this one to get out there, either, because it's left to Netflix to steward the films, and they do a shit job. They look like shit and they seem to have little interest in preservation or legacy.

More and more I respect Sean Baker's pro-theatre stance. At the Red Sea Film Festival: “I don’t understand why you can’t wait an extra three months for your streaming money. I don’t care what happens with my next film, I’m gonna get a 100-day theatrical window. I think that’s a good place for this moment. When you’re going directly to streaming, it takes away from the importance of a film. The theatrical experience elevates the importance. The way you present a film to the world is important.” Baker also ensured "Anora" got a nice Criterion release.

Of course, he made that statement while serving at the invitation of Saudi Arabia, so I guess you pick your masters if you want the money.

I’m sorry, the movie is just too long for such a shaggy dog plot

Long films have to justify their length by having enough story. Most modern films that are long don't at all.

Important to make the distinction between plot and story here - plot is only one part of the story matrix, along with character and theme. JUST a shaggy dog story doesn't justify two and half hours, but this certainly had enough of the other stuff that it did.

It felt the perfect length to me.

I didn't think it was too long, but we stopped for a bathroom/snack break and were surprised to see there was still 40 minutes left. We were like, how can it take that long to finish up? Because at that point it seemed like the plot was close to resolving. BUT there were more turns to come, and the last act I thought really pulled it together thematically and emotionally.

I did think it was a little too long, both to get its gears going but also to just get to the end. At the same time, it's much more of a character study than the other two, so the plot machinations don't really matter so much. They're almost background. Hence that phone call scene. They're in the manic midst of it, speeding toward a solution and ... life and duty suddenly intervenes and the priest just slows down and does what he is there to do. To his detriment, as far as the plot goes, and perhaps to ours, as far as pacing goes. But he is true to himself and his character, which redeems the semi-indulgence.

it seemed like it was written for a season-long caper with one episode per suspect. the jeremy renner character seemed weakest of the bunch.

Renner's eyeballs get huger with each film.

Renner was weakest given how essential Renner was to the reveal.

Yeah he didn't have much depth beyond shifty alcoholic. Doesn't help he's the blandest actor in the ensemble.

Missed yours, but yeah!

ha, I think that was meant for the Rob Reiner thread.

i thought Renner’s drunk acting was pretty good - that scene where he’s in the bar hiding in the booth & stands up -his posture is v funny. sort of bending slightly backwards to overcorrect like “i am quite sober this is how sober people stand”

^^ my thought too

That's the sort of thing that could just as easily be good direction as actor choice. Regardless, I generally find Renner good or solid in most things, just his character is somewhat underwritten in this one.

It did feel like the first act was a bit too much telling instead of showing, with narration carrying the heavy load of introducing a massive cast of possible victims/murderers. And then after that it was like OK how many of these characters will actually have anything to do besides be jerks? Kerry Washington also didn’t get to say much.

But as soon as Blanc walked through the door it was a good time imo

My wife and stepdaughter were very much like “so when does the movie begin” after about 30 minutes, and I assured them that the table was being set, “just wait”.

Felt like it took at least that long to clear the table too.

It's your fault for not explaining the glory of Josh O'Connor. Xpost.

Thinking about it, I think as a fun movie it was great. Great acting, great visuals, great script.

As a twisty whodunit, I think it worked less well than the other films. It wasn't as though it was unobvious who the killer was pretty much throughout. The question was more how than who, and even the how wasn't much of a surprise.

So to have all these extra characters serving simply as dummy suspects, who weren't given much screentime at all and ultimately served to make this into an ensemble film, I'm not sure it worked on that front.

I know it doesn't matter, but in terms of plot machinations I kept wondering about Wicks' corpse getting from the coroner to Dr. Nat's house. Like, what actually happens between an autopsy and a funeral, and would they ever just turn the body over to the family?

I liked the slow start, personally. Making me wait for Blanc to turn up was a nice touch

The thing about this movie is it actually wrestles with stuff thematically - the conflict between the priest's faith and Blanc's atheism, neither of which are ridiculed - which the first two didn't, they were more wish fulfillment fantasies with obvious goodies and baddies. There's obvious baddies here too obv, but I like that it's got something going on like that. Didn't expect a pinch of Schrader in my cozy murder mystery.

Oh that's definitely its strongest point. And also the satire against Trumpian/far-right radicalisation

Also far-right grifters and opportunists.

Yes, that's always appreciated too, but we got that in the first two as well.

I liked that it didn't give us the big Blanc Uncovers Everything, Grifters Defeated catharsis that part of me was yearning for, and instead at the end ppl still believe whatever they want. It's the only believable way for it to play out in our era.

yeah that’s actually better

for a film, not real life

oh yeah 100. it had a cool, non-judgemental and forgiving tone to it that felt very refreshing

xp to Jordan: They took the body when they put Samson into the coffin, so it would have been released by the police for interment by that point. The real question is where they hid the body when Samson got in the coffin

fine with it as a film - rian needs to put this series aside for at least a good 10 years.

btw I loved this

DJP, that's what I was asking! Not a big deal to elide it but I would have appreciated a quick shot of them awkwardly transporting the body to the basement during the explanation.

Oh got it, I was confused

Feels like they also cut scenes with the author character snidely offering critique of the locked room novels. Also seemed like they were missing some setup for Kerry Washington taking up smoking being a thing?

I did not feel that way about either of those things

I absolutely loved that Mila Kunis was the chief of police

It’s not at all a role I would have imagined her in and she killed it

Her scenes also felt truncated. Like they'd shot her reading the novel and coming up with Eureka moment but remembered she tells everyone this so they cut it, but now you miss her slamming the book down or some dramatic gesture.

I absolutely loved that Mila Kunis was the chief of police

a lot of nice bits that end up in a boring movie

I wonder if some movies do indeed work better on the big screen. For sure I'm less prone to distractions - phones, snacks, pets, pausing, etc. - which forces me to just chill out and take it in. "One Battle After Another," for example, I was mixed on it, but maybe the stuff I liked most on the big screen I wouldn't have liked on the small screen? Dunno.

liked this a bit more than the last one, but also agreed with everyone who thought it was too long and overstuffed. Other than Close, the rest of the ensemble cast were wasted - it's hard to see e.g. what Cailee Spaeny or Andrew Scott's characters brought to the story other than decor.

anyway, making Blanc the POV character was one of the weaknesses of Glass Onion, so I'm also glad they course corrected here - Blanc is best when seen through the eyes of others.

in terms of the movie's depiction of religion, someone mentioned Mike Flanagan upthread - it does feel of a piece with Midnight Mass in that it treats religion seriously but also wary of its potential to corrupt. Midnight Mass is also more explicitly Catholic (although bonus points for having one of the best representations of Islam I've seen in a western TV show)

I enjoyed it on the big screen for the most part, whereas I got a different feeling about Glass Onion, which I watched at home. I strongly feel some films (e.g. Kubricks) really do have to be seen on a big screen to get the right impact.

Not sure about "overstuffed". WUDM is one of those films that manages to be quite long, but feels like key parts, and even whole characters, were brushed over very quickly with just the briefest of exposition.

Even the politician character, and his relationship to his adoptive mother etc, didn't feel much more developed than "He films everything and he's a prick". I did like the few times he got to actually say stuff though.

I went into the film 1) aware of the running lenght and 2) at any rate resigned to the fact that every mainstream release thinks it needs a Lawrence Of Arabia lenght these days anyway, so did not find it overlong at all.

Big screen aside it's much more about not being able to use my phone. Two hours in a dark room is praxis these days, just the slightest damage mitigation for my declining attention span.

Hear that

I think that one thing lacking in the second or third films is an opportunity for the suspects to interact, which really rounded them out in Knives Out - there's two book clubs in this but they're all nervous catching of each other's eyes rather than much interaction. I suppose all three have a situation with a central Bloke - he'a just a lot more absent in the first.

I have to say I'm not sure how it could have been more explicitly Catholic without paying someone to walk through cinemas with a censer - the face to face confessions were a power move, the "four Hail Marys" just the meaningless words that indicate submission - the confession booth is part of a big plot point after all.

On which note, the deployment of Jeffrey Wright as a sort of framing device amused me. It's very effective: when Bishop Monk tells you that someone is a dick, then the matter is settled. I thought it brought a slight Wes Anderson feel that Jud's review was in a gymnasium, a real parole hearing vibe. I get that it's a seminary, but because it's a seminary, it will absolutely have some purpose-built "the bishop will scare the shit out of you now" rooms.

I wonder if working on 1 hour show like poker face messed up sense of timing for feature length. I feel like having 2x the characters means you actually need 4x the time to flesh them out if you use TV show pacing.

I don’t think there was a problem fleshing out the characters. I greatly enjoyed this movie as-is and don’t see how making it 7 hours long would be an improvement

I am looking forward to movie 7 or 8, where halfway through the narrative perspective shifts and we find out that Charlie Cale's been working at the establishment for a week now.

It would be the fifth Charlie Cale by then though, we mightn’t even know who’s playing them

I really liked this, especially the Louise phone call.

It did feel not-so-much overstuffed but that there was perhaps too much of the best parts (Monsigneur and Father) and not enough of the parts that ended up being not-best (because they weren’t fleshed out enough) (the line of potential suspects)

Both Damascus moments seemed unnecessary and yet irremovable from the DNA of the plot

Second Damascus moment not unecessary at all imo! Unecessary to the mystery perhaps, but important thematically - it shows Blanc has developed respect for the priest's role (without renouncing his atheism) and sets him up for the moment of grace.

Oh no, it was intrinsic to the plotting— but it did (on my first viewing) feel like another speed bump in the pacing. It was an effective dovetail from Father Jud’s insistence that he “turn himself in”, bc grace etc.

This also felt like there was a scene missing telegraphing it. It could have been as small as an insert shot of Blanc having vague facial gymnastics that he goes through again as he processes the phone call scene, but maybe they didn't want to break from the flow.

ty for new dn

glenn close was really good in this. was a pretty good time overall, wish we had a little more between the two preachers, and maybe a tiny bit more focus on the ensemble but the emphasis on josh o’connor’s moral journey grounded this film a lot more than glass onion. i liked ana de armas in the first film, but she was basically a saint, while o’connor was a lot more complex

Glenn Close's performance was judt hammy enough without pushing it too hard

yup

I kept saying things like “oh, hey, [name of actor], glad to actually see you on screen” out loud

Like, I hadn’t seen Church or Renner or Close in anything in forever (I know they’ve all done stuff lately, it’s just stuff I haven’t watched)

yea andrew scott and cailee spaeny didn’t too much, which is too bad, and jeremy “facial muscles still recovering from catastrophic accident” renner was too vital to the plot for the impact he made on screen

should’ve switched scott and renner’s roles, maybe

A good interview from the National Catholic Reporter (I don't imagine it's hard to drag this information out of Johnson on this press tour, but I suspect not many are asking) https://www.ncronline.org/culture/very-catholic-knives-out-rian-johnson-talks-priests-forgiveness-and-complicated-faith

Enjoyed this, tho damn was I feeling the runtime by the end. Beautifully shot, even if we saw that one of the forest a few too many times. Jud’s active & sincere embracing of his social role while working thru his conflicted feelings was a highlight.

I kinda wish there was a few more jokes(the staircase bit near the end was great), and maybe a few less namedrops of culture war shit that marks it such a 2023-24 script.

Also, are MLB games still actually getting analog over-the-air broadcasts?

maybe a few less namedrops of culture war shit that marks it such a 2023-24 script.

the teenage twitter nazi in Knives Out is feeling pretty timeless, eight years after the script was finished

Yes, and I feel like this franchise from the get go has had "murder mystery setting for highly topical satire" baked into the pitch. If anything this one dials that back a bit from Glass Onion.

really enjoyed this and found it very moving as a lapsed catholic, maybe hitting harder since I was recently immersed in deeply catholic rituals after my father passed away. He would have really loved this one.

It was also vv funny in places of course and also exceptionally acted by the two leads. I like the on-point topicality, it’s better for going big with it. big lols at Cy’s rundown of the issues he focused on in his campaign.

I liked this one most of the three - great performances from O'Connor and Close, hung together well thematically - but do agree the secondary characters barely got any time

Watched it for the second time yesterday with the family. Very satisfying to rewatch knowing all, and getting to see others speculate.

Can someone refresh my hazy memory - did Blanc actually solve the mystery in 1 or 2? I was surprised when he actually had a clue this time.

Yes in 1, the same "yanking the protagonist back from a confession" as in this. Also in 2, both mysteries, though he is not the instrument of Justice there (but he does set it up)

It reminded me a lot of the Father Brown stories

― Andrew Farrell, Sunday, December 14, 2025 7:26 AM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

I recommend Father Brown, Detective (Sedgwick, 1934), released this year by Kino Lorber (https://kinolorber.com/product/father-brown-detective).

I watched WUDM with my mother and sister (we saw the previous two movies on Christmas Day). This time around I wasn't as enthused. And I still don't quite understand how they faked Wicks' death enough to fool the police; "hitherto undiscovered poisons" would violate the Ronald Knox "10 Commandments of Detective Fiction." And in this context it's interesting that Knox was a Catholic priest as well as a mystery writer. Coincidence or...?

I've already proven that I don't understand these movies but IIRC they didn't fake Wicks's death, the doctor stabbed him while he was in a drugged sleep.

Oh, I am fascinated by the prospect of that, thank you j.lu - mostly because the first Father Brown story is such an odd one to adapt, it's pretty much entirely actionless.

Yeah the drug was to make him pass out and collapse, and seemingly die moments before he was actually stabbed to death.

Tbf the setup was so convincing that I still, still, remained sure that Wicks wasn’t dead even after Blanc assured us all that he was “as a doornail”

was quite disappointing on the first watch, there are some really good bits here and there but the pace was weird, and the main mystery kinda lost steam towards the end. not sure if the misdirection ("did wicks plan the whole thing himself?") was supposed to make it more interesting, but it turned into "how did they do it" instead of "who did it", and i think that's because the suspects ensemble wasn't given enough or interesting enough background stories.

there was also almost no interaction between them, unlike the first two movies where there were interesting dynamics between all the characters. it did make me realize that even though each movie tells a distinctly different story, they all are based on a group of parasitic characters who are dependent in some way on a central patriarch character. but that dependency wasn't fleshed out enough in Dead Man, so the stakes felt lower.

it'll probably be a better movie on a second watch, i didn't like Glass Onion the first time but did the second - once you don't care about the mystery, you can just enjoy all the little details, the sets and the delivery.

Blanc’s “hello?!” when he comes in the church is one of the funniest things I’ve seen this year

https://www.avclub.com/gji-rian-johnson-wake-up-dead-man-rickroll

this was definitely my favorite of the 3. has a little more to chew on and the best staging for the mystery

saw this last night. enjoyed knives out, really didn't like glass onion, thought this was marginally better than glass onion, but not by an awful lot.

scanner darkly otm about the group. there is no interaction between them and blanc, or the investigation at all really. so you just go between them... not doing much actually, just sort of sitting there, in a pew or a drawing room... and daniel craig chewing scenery. he even says just before the funeral 'i'm going to interview the suspects' and then... that doesn't happen? he just watches the video of them being burned by Wicks and they vamoose. and blanc's slightly panicky 'screwball' (not actually) rushing around is at odds with his 'inevitably his actions lead in an arc to the solution' philosophy. the story was not put together with any substance or construction, so came across as very creaky, though I think might have been told well if put together differently, even if motive and action were very weakly substantiated in Glenn Close and the doctor.

i will happily watch josh o'connor in anything really - he's got a sort of wonderful '70s feel to him, a bit like Donald Sutherland in some respects - though even his performance seemed badly directed or acted - pent up bruiser, convert to god, fine - embarrassed giggler and hider from *events*? doesn't go.

a matter of curiosity - I thought the religion stuff, the battle between brimstone and grace, blanc's decision to make himself look foolish, was quite well done - very Chesterton/Father Brown.

but generally, no planning, no order, heavily reliant on ham acting from famous faces. rather a coked-up sort of film in terms of editing and style, or is that in some way a matter of playing to social media? it all felt very surface, with little evident construction beneath.

The Hollow Man is exemplary in these regards – wonderful atmosphere, not one but two central mysteries that seem impossible, each member of the group of suspects with slightly occult concerns. I'll put the opening of that here as a way of retrieving something from what i thought was a disappointing film:

To the murder of Professor Grimaud, and later the equally incredible crime in Cagliostro Street, many fantastic terms could be applied – with reason. Those of Dr Fell’s friends who like impossible situations will not find in his casebook any puzzle more baffling or more terrifying. Thus: two murders were committed, in such fashion that the murderer must not only have been invisible, but lighter than air. According to the evidence, this person killed his first victim and literally disappeared. Again according to the evidence, he killed his second victim in the middle of an empty street, with watchers at either end; yet not a soul saw him, and no footprint appeared in the snow.

i will happily watch josh o'connor in anything really - he's got a sort of wonderful '70s feel to him, a bit like Donald Sutherland in some respects - though even his performance seemed badly directed or acted - pent up bruiser, convert to god, fine - embarrassed giggler and hider from *events*? doesn't go.

?

sorry, too many dashes. i found his performance to have too many incongruous elements. he nervously giggles a few times in response to awkward situations, runs away from a book being thrown at him, hides from the cadaver. it didn't jibe with the rest of his character for me.

On the contrary, those mannerisms seem exactly in character. *shrugs*

Those are the exact things I loved about O’Connor’s performance - not just the “intense young man” stuff but the equally adept (and integrated) comic moments - the whole package.

I enjoyed this but agree the other suspects were (mostly) boring. And Johnson is a great gag writer, but you want to hold him and tell him it’s okay to have three minutes pass without a joke

Loved Close.

i’m not sure i’ll watch it again to be able to reassess o’connor’s character, but noted!

but it turned into "how did they do it" instead of "who did it",

in a Benoit Blanc movie???!

best mysteries typically have a combination of both, but here i didn't particularly care for who did it, since the suspects were all essentially not much more than pencil outlines. i mean, christie has the same problem, yet somehow makes you care about _who_ did it.

the first movie is probably the closest to a classic murder mystery. i do appreciate all the calls out to the classic tropes (the love rain johnson has for the classics / the 10 rules etc clearly coming across is one of the best things about these movies imo, all the inner jokes / references, not just the stuff that gets explicitly referenced like the Hollow Man), but that's why it's all the more disappointing.

Knives Out > Dead Man > Glass Onion

Honestly I kinda think this is the best one.

a better movie? sure. a better mystery? i don't think it beats the first one.

Yeah, Knives>Dead>Glass. All good and fun but this is the only one with depth, too.

Dead Man has the most heart

I think the background characters having a bit more weight in the first movie (particularly JLC and Don Johnson, a great sick-minded pairing) made the ending feel more exciting and genuinely up for grabs. This time I found myself thinking “well, it’s going to be pretty disappointing if it’s Olivia Pope…”

But the very last scene between O’Connor and Close, part-pushing, part-twisting the knife - to get her to talk about Wicks’s mother - amazing

I don't care about mysteries really, well I enjoy the "aha" moment of realisation when all is explained but I don't spend the time before that trying to figure shit out, I don't come to a movie for work.

I don't come to a movie for _work_.

that’s why I gave up reading Ulysses

Haha fair, but the things you learn from decrypting Ulysses are imo more interesting.

Interesting to see the Church exterior at least is in a location I was driven to a lot when I was in London. Next to a wooded area that family liked to walk in. I can't remember if I was ever inside it though. But the area around it is nice.