Old & Corrupted: Canadian Politics 2024-25

a new hopefully Zing-friendly thread

Weirdly, since this thread was begun, the old one now loads in Zing. I’m guessing witchcraft is at work.

After the 2021 election, my one staunch conservative friend and I were talking politics (as we inevitably do, despite our goodwill attempts to avoid it) and I said that Trudeau was going to try to contest the next election because his massive ego wouldn’t let him bow out gracefully; he would have to be crushed into the ground by an opponent or forcibly chucked out by the party (which would never do so). My friend expressed surprise and said I was the only person he’d met that thought that, besides Ben Mulroney (these are the circles he frequents on the 364 days a year when he’s not slumming it with me) — that everyone he knew expected Trudeau to step down as leader as soon as a suitable replacement could be found, since the dude was so obviously done, as in nobody was voting for him, just against the Conservatives. Yet here we are. Wildly unpopular, deeply ineffectual, inspiring nobody, and committed to fucking running again, banking on the hope that Pollievre is so distasteful to us that we’ll hold our nose and swallow a medicine spoonful of Trudeau yet again.

A reasonable leader would have set the party free to groom an inspiring successor well before any election talk was in the air. But nOoooo…

When PM Alt-right Milhouse is in power, I hope JT at least has the sense of shame that it’s his fault, and that it haunts him haggard. (This will be small comfort for the rest of us, suffering under an austerity budget, rights and liberties being curtailed, and federal services and infrastructure being sold off to Telus and Shopify.)

What I still don't really get is why people's understandable fatigue with JT and the Liberals necessarily means a turn to lite fascism. I'm familiar with this routine pendulum swing in other contexts, but I moved here in 2014 when the NDP was on the cusp of majority viability and I'm still confused about what happened to stifle that. (tbf I can't even come close to understanding what people see in conservatism these days, so the problem isn't really my ignorance)

Not that I disagree with the point that JT's vanity is a disaster for us all!

Layton had some magic about him, I can’t think of it any other way than that. He talked about love being a primary motivating force in politics and somehow didn’t sound like a hippie! If he hadn’t died, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if he’d have become our first NDP PM.

And now we’d all probably be sick of him too, moaning about how disappointed we are that he didn’t live up to his promise. Ah, but maybe not…

Heard on CBC radio that there are Liberal MPs who are calling Poilievre weird. Maybe a little too transparent? Strange, flaky, peculiar--there are other words that work.

Canadians don’t have an original thought in our heads when it comes to politics.

that peculiar Pierre

I suppose the Liberals might have trouble going after him with "phony" but that's my main impression, and if they keep doing stuff like this maybe it would stick? https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/20/canada-conservatives-video-other-countries

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-imeR4n9PU

“Weird” works because it points out how fucked up the maga worldview is and delegitimizes it all in one swell foop. I wish there was another word, one that meant “weird and boring and unoriginal and an opportunistic hack and a dweeb and a conman and a tryhard and someone you do fucking well not want running the goddamn country.”

In other news, hey BC can you get your head out of your ass? Every other province who votes in the conservatives has voted in DEEP FUCKING PROBLEMS with them, don’t be stupid.

yeah this shit's getting scary with the BC United/Libs pulling out today

and the BC Conservatives are definitely the Polievre/Danielle Smith version, not the Ford nation types or the PCs

Interesting development: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-staffers-gaza-montreal-byelection-1.7306984

I went back and found this post i made in the 2020 Canadian politics thread

so uh are the BC Liberals even going to exist by the end of this election

― josh az (2011nostalgia), Thursday, October 15, 2020 5:21 PM (three years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Only took just under four years but this finally came true

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jagmeet-singh-ndp-ending-agreement-1.7312910

I'm getting nervous.

Are the NDP in any position to benefit from a sudden election?

Couldn't say, though I'm sure someone far more knowledgable on the subject can. Just dreading P.P.

Are the NDP in any position to benefit from a sudden election?

I could see some typical liberal voters going to the NDP if they think the Liberal party is a lost cause. There is nothing in the polls indicating something like that is going to happen though, it seems like all ex-liberal voters are going the other way.

weird how Jagmeet is not giving any clear explanation for ending the agreement now. There's nothing about it until the end of the article:

On Tuesday, NDP labour critic Matthew Green said the NDP has been re-evaluating the deal since Labour Minister Steve MacKinnon directed the Canada Industrial Relations Board to impose binding arbitration less than 24 hours after Canadian Pacific Kansas City and Canadian National Railway locked out their workers after failing to reach a deal at the bargaining table.

"After Sellout Singh did this stunt today, he is going to have to vote on whether he keeps Justin Trudeau's costly government in power, or whether he triggers a carbon tax election."

Right then, let's all talk like we're back in the schoolyard.

Shut up Skippy, you dirty taint.

lord knows I don't know what regular Canadians think about anything tbrr, but is the carbon tax really such a hot issue that "carbon tax election" is a thing anyone other than PP will get juiced about?

We have an encampment 15 minutes west of town at a prominent gas station. They will be protesting the carbon tax until they all die of old age, even if skippy scraps it.

There’s so much fucked about this ginned-up outrage about the carbon levy, but the thing that gets me is that if PP was to scrap it, our exports would drop by like 40% overnight, since so many of our biggest trading partners have requirements about this. So the Cons will get in, then after a review they will keep the levy, and everyone will be absolutely fine with that.

Fuck this country North America humanity right now.

"Sellout Singh"--the anxiety of influence.

Pollievre has no anxiety about it at all. He’s like “It worked for the orange guy, it’ll work here” and sleeps posturepedic-soundly every night.

Oh, I know--just granting such transparent imitation pseudo-loftiness.

I sincerely hope the Dems CRUSH the US election & go hard on “neighbourly” social programs and that takes the wind out of PP’s pseudo-sails & puts _some_ in the NDP’s at least. I’m sure that fear-calculus is beeping in PP’s little lizard brain & is at least half the reason he’d love Singh to trigger an election this fall.

If I were Singh, the taunt that I was triggering “a carbon tax election” would be enough to keep me from doing so quite decisively. But I’m petty like that.

oups: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/government-should-remove-more-than-330-names-on-victims-of-communism-memorial-because-of-potential-nazi-or-fascist-links-report-recommends

The Department of Canadian Heritage is being told that more than half of the 550 names on the Memorial to the Victims of Communism should be removed because of potential links to the Nazis or questions about affiliations with fascist groups, according to government records.

As originally planned, there were to be 553 entries on the Ottawa memorial’s Wall of Remembrance.

Highly unlikely that any on the proposed list were Canadian so why are we even going to that detail? I'd hoped that the Libs during their tenure would've sunk this sketchy Harper-based project but it appears that they managed to fail at this too.

good luck British Columbia

John Rustad's internet conspiracy brainrot, a thread #bcpoli pic.twitter.com/U524GYPTpW

— Matt Hannah (@mattjdh) October 19, 2024

Was just looking at a "FB memory" where, nine years ago today, I decided I cared more about baseball than Canadian politics because I decided Jays-win (in the ALCS vs. the Royals; Jays were down 2-0)/Harper-wins was preferable to Jays-lose/Harper-loses. This is still pre-Trump; if it came down to the same situation today but with our Trump acolyte running...elimination loss, I'd still go with the Jays; otherwise, I think I'd take the Jays loss, but honestly I'm not sure.

respectfully, that's insane

now if there was something important like a Canucks cup on the line, maybe I'd feel differently

I had second thoughts as soon as I posted...There's an unstated and quite probably naive belief there that we'd just get a pale, Canadian version of Trump--that ours could never be close to as destructive as the real thing. But that's not a risk worth taking, I realize.

(And hometown sports fandom has insanity as a given.)

Haha, my own FB memory for today in 2015 was changing my wallpaper to a really pouty photo of Harper's face

I know Trump has me already misremembering Harper as a Romney-type when he was in fact harder right.

Oh yeah, Harper was proto-fasc. The war on science and the media; the appeal to "old stock" Cdns, the military parades at hockey games, and that's only that which I can still immediately remember.

Pretty sure he “consults” actual fascists now too.

My memories of Mike Harris--his hatred of teachers, and how he got a sizeable part of the public to go along with him on that--are sharper and more personal.

a pale, Canadian version of Trump--that ours could never be close to as destructive as the real thing

i recall wondering how the hell rob ford happened, and then

looks like BC is ending up with one of the strangest possible results yeesh

the conversation above is bringing back traumatic memories of the brief moment in 2011 when a Jack Layton government and Vancouver Canucks Stanley Cup were somehow within reach

my thinking was that the Jays already won two World Series in our lifetime, so the joy you would experience from just a playoff series win wouldn't really compare to the permanent damage PP is going to cause

You're right--myopic comment based on memories of how awful I felt when the Jays bowed out in 2015.

rob ford was the harbinger of "yes, i smoke crack but why do you think that disqualifies me or requires me to resign" style of politics

so we're planning a population decline to, allegedly, tackle the housing crisis, amazing: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/new-immigration-levels-plan-1.7361972

Postal strike. From CBC:

What does this mean for letters to Santa?

CBC News has contacted Canada Post and the Canadian Union of Postal Workers (CUPW) about Canada Post's holiday tradition. The corporation responded with an email saying the strike has "impacted Canadians, small businesses, as well as our ability to get mail to and from Santa in the North Pole."

smart to include a blatant lie in your official response to a strike

I'm a unionized teacher, so 100% pro-union, but above and beyond that, throwing in "from"--not only can't your kids send letters, they won't get gifts.

And why is the CBC even asking such a stupid question?

i don't remember mom ever telling me Canada Post assisted Santa on xmas eve

they should reach out to Santa for comment

And then--both sides--sound out the Grinch and/or Ebenezer Scrooge.

Canada Post does send responses to every letter to Santa, I learned yesterday:

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/christmas-tradition-for-30-years-canada-post-has-helped-santa-respond-to-wishful-children

lol: https://marieflanagan.com/loserlane/

Doug will just tell you that you shouldn't have been on a bike in the first place.

So is our government collapsing?

Had to catch up...not good!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/finance-minister-chrystia-freeland-resigns-from-trudeau-s-cabinet-1.7411380

Xp Depends on how many additional MP's decide to follow Freeland out the door. OTOH Carney's presence strengthens JT's position.

Freeland is also a CEO assassin in her way

trudeau out?

A few stories up saying Wednesday morning.

could be tomorrow, that's what some Globe reporter was saying

guess we still have a couple months before we join our Southern neighbours in being led by the worst person in the country

or we are getting prorogued

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/canada-justin-trudeau-resignation-01-06-25/index.html

Parliament suspended until March 24? That's two months!

So weird that he'd choose Jan. 6 to resign.

help a new Canadian out here: what happens next? is there a leadership race and then an election?

There has to be an election this year no matter what.

Justin didn't even last as long as Harper.

there can only be an election in 3 scenarios, really:

1) the ruling government calls one early (trudeau has declined to do this so far);
2) the opposition parties team up and bring down the government in Parliament (trudeau has cancelled parliament until march 24);
3) the election happens as scheduled on October 20, 2025.

So it's likely it will happen when Parliament resumes, but it's mitigated by the fact that not all the parties have much money in the bank. The Conservatives may be the only ones in a rush to get to the polls (since they're rich and they're going to win). Canadian election campaigns are very short - less than 2 months - so everyone's going to be trying to figure out the optimal timing.

Jagmeet signalled he'll direct the NDP to vote for non-confidence at the next opportunity, so the Liberals will start the election period whenever the next confidence vote is scheduled. Proroguing parliament until March gives the Liberals time to pick a new leader.

Does this mean the winner of the Liberal leadership race will never actually be PM? Trudeau will remain as PM until the conclusion of the election?

i would think that trudeau's going to set aside and let the new Liberal leader represent the party in the election

the other possibility is that the Liberals decide (as a caucus) to name an "interim leader" for the election, and that a full leadership race will follow after that person uh loses

Very helpful thanks!

apparently the US politics thread is now threatening to use economic force to annex this thread

lol

Time to start a separate Québec thread

So Quebec immediately declares independence if The Tories give away Canada to the US right?

#oneboard

Will we still get to keep Nickelback?

You've been doing a poor job containing them tbh. They keep coming down here.

Be honest: isn't that really what this whole border thing comes down to?

I want to claim Sudbury’s Big Nickel for the US of A!

my bet is Freeland becomes leader, loses horribly, and Carney swoops in for the rebuild

xpost You wanna claim the Superstack along with that? It's not being used...

(Spent two months last summer with a view of it from my hospital)

i'm surprised at the lack of a stronger response to trump from Canadian politicians (of all levels). should i not be? the reasoning that being reasonable with an unhinged bully will somehow help with the tariffs doesn't seem all that solid. you don't deal with bullies by legitimizing their demands, you deal with them by calling out their bluff. not to mention that doing so would likely score some political points with Canadians. and it's a good opportunity to remind people that cons say Canada will never join the US while at the same time trying to import GOP policies to Canada.

why can't a single Canadian politician tell trump in unequivocal terms to learn some damn respect?

xp could be worse, we could get christie clark

xp Charlie Angus?

ah, bless charlie. i suppose jagmeet's statement as well, but i donno, i want something much stronger. or a joint statement from all parties and all premiers.

I was wondering whether Poilievre would get more points from his supporters by standing up to Trump or by "co-operating" with him, if he could disguise the relationship so it wasn't obvious capitulation.

A personally amusing option would be to play along with the 51st state idea, given that the great state of Canada would be a) the largest state by territory and possibly population [we're about tied with California I think] b) a guaranteed blue state and c) an absolute administrative nightmare for the US govt to incorporate.

I know full well there's no catching trump out with logic and facts or w/e, but if he's going to keep mentioning it why not pepper him with questions about expanding Congress, intl treaties, the monarchy, French, adding a star to the flag, changing currency, etc.? asking Canadian pols about this like it's a real possibility is so dumb, it's not their ludicrous idea

Not so sure about "a guaranteed blue state."

I'm doing my part to reinforce Canadian sovereignty by dirtying our water supplies so they're less appealing to refined US tastes.

sounds like a great time for Cascadia movement revival!

Xp just confirming that you're downstream from Ottawa, thanks. Bad enough we have Chalk River to the north

Not so sure about "a guaranteed blue state."

― cryptosicko, Wednesday, January 8, 2025 1:27 PM (thirty-one minutes ago)

maybe guaranteed is over-confident, but in a two-party system and going by current-day Canadian beliefs and tendencies, it's hard to see how Canada wouldn't be majority Democrat

I mean maybe like 55/45 but reliably blue

just confirming that you're downstream from Ottawa

Concentrating on Black Creek, the Humber and on a good day the Don (Torontocentrist)

xp

Latest polls have Conservatives at 36.9, Libs at 28.4 and NDP at 18.3 (and BQ at 11.2), so yeah, easy win for the Democrats (for now).

I feel dumb even hypothetically discussing this.

lol yeah I didn't mean to take this seriously really

also from https://bsky.app/profile/canadianpolling.bsky.social/post/3lf6sucrue22p

"Would you or would you not like Canada to become the 51st state of the United States?"

No: 82%
Yes: 13%

---
No Among:

NDP: 94%
LPC: 89%
BQ: 88%
GPC: 87%
CPC: 73%
PPC: 57%

---
Leger / Dec 9, 2024 / n=1520 / Online

To be honest, I expected worse

I dunno, seems like there are more traitorous bastards than I'd have predicted

PPC might wish to change their name to better reflect the inclinations of their supporters

so PCP?

NDP the most patriotic, let's go!

i'm much more concerned (and surprised) about these stats:

“The appeal of a province joining the United States varies greatly by age,” says Mario Canseco, President of Research Co. “While only 10% of Canadians aged 55 and over perceive benefits, the proportion rises to 27% among those aged 35-to-54 and to 40% among those aged 18-to-34.”

https://researchco.ca/2024/12/20/unity-canada-3/

seriously, 18-to-34, what do you think is going to improve for your age group by joining the US?

sigh, why the fuck is cbc giving a platform to hyperpartisan american activists like Georganne Burke

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/trump-annex-canada-reaction-1.7425803

xp that question about a province joining the US is a little different, a lot of ppl in Alberta and Quebec would see seceding from Canada as a bonus

Not so sure about "a guaranteed blue state."
― cryptosicko, Wednesday, January 8, 2025

Unfortunately, I agree. Eight years ago, absolutely; even three-four years ago, I was confident that a healthy majority of our country despised Trump. Today, not confident of that at all.

I think it's likely that future Canadian sentiments will be affected by the exact nature of the American imperialism we are about to experience

"guaranteed blue state" of course only a consideration in a future where there are still normal elections.

watching Carney on the daily show, i do think he's got a shot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs8St-fF0kE

people forget how much things can swing during the short campaigns in canada

.. especially if your Christy Clark

sigh. "you're"

speaking of spelling, i've changed settings on all my devices to use English (Canada) instead of English (US) and i'm going to be using Canadian spelling in the work environment - we have a mixed US / Canadian team and i realized i often used the US spelling to be nicer to the US colleagues. but no more.

The Daily Show might've been a softball interview but Carney still performed spectacularly. I was pretty neutral on the guy before but this definitely raised an eyebrow. Next to Carney, PP now looks even more like a petulant boychild.

For sure, short campaigns can yield big shifts. Maybe this could be another 2014 Ontario election scenario, with PP in the Tim Hudak role?

any Ontarians have thoughts about the election? any chance Ford will lose?

No.

The darkness has spread everywhere.

ugh depressing but thanks

Ford with his majority government is seeking "a stronger longer mandate"

Never waste a good crisis, Dougie

God, I'm rewatching S3 of Twin Peaks right now; you've made me realize that Dougie Jones is not my least favourite Dougie ever.

ya Ford may well be the absolute low bar for Dougies

Interesting on what Canada could do as a response to tariffs.

"Tariffs, which the U.S. president has constantly said he would introduce, are a threat to Canada’s national economic security. If Donald Trump follows through, Canada must respond with all economic weapons at its disposal, a key armament of which is intellectual property such as patents. This country has the right, under both Canadian and international law, to effectively suspend patent rights held by U.S.-controlled companies in key sectors, such as pharmaceuticals and artificial intelligence. Doing so would put tremendous pressure on the Trump administration."

https://archive.ph/SaoYn

I can't speak for the AI sector but I'm unconvinced that this would ever be allowed to happen for pharmaceuticals. Innovator drug companies would likely respond to such a proposal with threats to stop marketing their products in Canada. We're already dealing continually with drug shortages here and I can't imagine there being any appetite in Ottawa for risking more.

they can just choose to not enforce canadian patents, ip law is mostly fake

problem with a trade war is canada has no real leverage in the long term since anything we do in retaliation will hurt us more than it will america

imo two of the best weapons we’ve got are short term “shock” stuff like a one week cut off of all hydroelectricity to new york state in february or all crude to the midwest. just a quick shock to make americans realize what the hell are we doing

so the tariffs are happening? flopson's take seems otm ugh

Nothing on exempting oil and gas at this time either. Yeah, Americans are going to love that "sacrifice".

this is gonna fucking suck lmao

stock up on groceries and gas now, exchange cad to usd

uggggggggggg

yeah I recognize that as good advice but my brain is saying "noooooo"

our dollar will spike when the taps turn back on

right
right

I just figure the entire north american economy is going to be a disaster the next 4 years. No idea how this trade war is actually going to play out. I'm tempted be all for cutting off the gas and electricity supplied to the USA entirely but I also get why that would be a terrible idea. I guess I'm just going to boycott the US as much as possible the next few years. I'm definitely not going to the USA and will also try to avoid buying from American companies as much as possible.

is this not an infringement on CUSMA?

does it matter? seems like Donald Trump is pretty much being allowed to whatever he wants

but seriously, I haven't seen that brought up anywhere, so I'm guessing it's not an infringement, not that I know a whole lot about this stuff

love that they're mentioning a tariff against kentucky bourbon specifically.... a little call out to McConnell & Paul

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/cusma-tariffs-trump-1.7445515

pages and pages of op-eds and analysis and the various canadian politicians talking about "what trump is going to do / what should we do" are so funny to me.

what does it matter? you're dealing with a petulant idiot who changes his mind based on what caught his attention in the last five minutes, and you are trying to come up with plans, negotiations, some way to placate him? so you'll do something and he'll say he'll reconsider. and then he'll change his mind again, because that's what he does. because this way he gets the attention which is the only thing he craves.

all this trying to figure out what is causing him to consider tariffs, when it's likely some very simple and extremely stupid reason, like hating trudeau.

it's like trying to decide what's the best way to placate a rabid dog. there is only one, containment. and longer term contingency plans. i just wish there was one person who would say: we can't negotiate with an idiot, and we are smarter than wrestling with a pig, so we will do the smart thing: isolate the idiot, ignore him as much as we can, deal with people who actually can take concrete steps to help canada and promote a message that this will hurt americans as well. start identifying ways to rebuilt supply chains. coordinate effort with remaining allies. etc etc

but for fuck sake, can we just stop pretending that we have to please he asshole somehow?

i think trump is just curious what effects tariffs actually have and he wants to do a little experiment. he doesn’t like trade imbalances for barely intelligible quasi-mercantilist reasons that have more to do with psychology than economics, and if this reduces the trade deficit without hurting the stock market and his approval rating too much he’ll be happy. he’s confused because different advisors are telling him tariffs will have different effects. he just wants to see for himself

i also think he’s serious about 51st state stuff. he wants the USA to be bigger on a map because of him, for that to be his legacy

he's not curious about the effects of anything at all, he's just a bully. he doesn't have the confidence to bully america's actual enemies, so instead he's trying to bully its (current) friends

also he doesn't give a shit about anything but his own ratings, so when his asshole choices destroy the (american) economy, he'll back down. (obviously the american media can't be trusted to report the extent of the destruction, but presumably it will become obvious for most americans at the grocery store)

apologies for the non-canadian content

trying to stay optimistic but fwiw it’s possible this trade war will *not* have any immediately discernible negative effects on the economy. it’s not even clear prices will go up much. the exchange rate could adjust instead, keeping the us dollar stronger so that for domestic consumers prices stays the same. in that case exports would get slammed. if the exchange rate goes up a lot that would kill auto manufacturing exports but lower value industries would survive. but those changes won’t happen right away, so it’s not clear he’ll repeal the tariffs anytime soon

it’s still not clear to me that trump knows what tariffs are. i’m pretty sure he thinks he is putting a 25% tax on canadians, not a 25% tax on americans who buy stuff from canada

imo two of the best weapons we’ve got are short term “shock” stuff like a one week cut off of all hydroelectricity to new york state in february or all crude to the midwest. just a quick shock to make americans realize what the hell are we doing

the possible lack of sudden discernible negative effects from trump tariffs is why i think this is a good option

I really hope this spurs dismantling of interprovincial trade barriers. It’s always been crazy to me that we have tariffs between provinces.

i keep thinking of how it compares to the russian sanctions - they didn't have the effect the west was hoping for and forced russia to rebuild supply chains / establish new trade partners and reduce their dependencies. the hilarious thing about the idiot's tariffs idea is that it's essentially like self imposed sanctions on the US itself and its allies in that it will force Canada and other allies to strengthen their own partnerships, find lower risk trade partners and reduce their dependency on the US.

even if the idiot listens to the voice of reason and finds some exit route where he can abandon the idea without damage to his (and the US) reputation (there isn't any but he just needs to convince himself), the damage is already done, and any company with a modicum of sense will factor in the higher risk of dealing with the unpredictable childish idiot and the country that allows him to inflict such damage onto itself.

So the tariffs will now be linked to fentanyl overdoses. Well, there's a clear and definable endpoint.

the tariffs will be linked to whatever happens to be the handy excuse of the day

Federal response tonight at 6pm EST

the hilarious thing about the idiot's tariffs idea is that it's essentially like self imposed sanctions on the US itself

i think trump genuinely believes that a tariff is a tax on canadian firm that export to the us, not a tax on american firms that import from canada. it explains so much of how he talks about them

He's a stupid man but I think even he understands that point. I think he's just aiming to bring more manufacturing back to the US, using import tariffs as a stick. Now whether or not he's familiar with the outcome of Smoot-Hawley is an entirely separate question.

Not surprising that the confirmatory announcement was issued on a Saturday, when the stock markets were closed. Be interesting to see what happens on Monday.

Will definitely tune in at 6:00--can't remember anything like this.

i dunno. same start time as the Royal Rumble.

I don’t know shit about shit but on hearing about Musk’s treasury takeover I just moved all my workplace retirement savings / pension money from equities (where they have been doing, of course, very well) into money-market (cash equivalent) funds. Too much uncertainty right now — will reassess later.

Of course I’m a financial numbskull and have always been wrong about everything to do with markets, so the goddamn Dow will probably spike 100% on Monday just to spite me.

No idea, but: maybe this--the anger--will reverse course on Canada's drift towards Trumpism and hurt Poilievre. Although I can't see that that would outweigh economic misery. Trump drives Canada into ditch, country (or enough of the country) turns to Poilievre to fix things to get him elected.

I thought Trudeau was forceful; probably won't mean much to his outgoing approval, and probably won't save the country, but he said what he needed to say. Also encouraged that Ford is backing the federal response "100%"...although I can't say I trust his motives for saying that.

All you can really do is keep supporting the NDP and hope something changes for the better

lack of targeted tariffs or export tariffs on energy seems like a mistake to me. we'll see.

Does Trudeau's dead-man-walking status figure into this at all, or is that completely unrelated?

‪James Fallows‬ ✧@jfall✧✧✧.b✧✧✧.soc✧✧✧‬ 1h

Compared with any other major country, the United States has been extremely fortunate in its two immediate neighbors, Canada and Mexico.

Now, incredibly, it is declaring economic war on both of them. This is a war no one can win, and from which tens of millions will lose.

This is insanity.

see also

rincewind.bluesky

I think countries around the world should levy tariffs specifically on Tesla in response to US tariffs, as well as banning Twitter as a national security threat

driving a wedge between our co-dictators may be the most effective thing they can do

he should have announced the renaming of Lake Erie to Lake Trump Is A Pedophile

i don’t think tariffs on tesla will do anything, cash flow is not really a constraint for that company

i think it's still a good idea

he should have announced the renaming of Lake Erie to Lake Trump Is A Pedophile

Good idea tbh

I think trolling is an underrated potential weapon in this fight. See also: turning off the power as the superbowl starts.

Omg YES

vance implying tariffs are step 2 and war/invasion is step 3

Mexico sends ton of fentanyl into our country. Canada has seen a massive increase in fentanyl trafficking across its border. There are three ways of stopping this. The first is ask nicely, which we’ve done. It’s gone nowhere.

Now we’re on to the consequences phase.

— JD Vance (@JDVance) February 2, 2025

I'm reading it that the "consequences" is the trade war that we're facing

But there is a third step.

All fun and games.

xp- he says three steps but only names the first step

Step 2-1/2: CNN says Trudeau and Trump will be speaking today.

Mexico gets a one-month reprieve:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-tariffs-presidency-news-02-03-25/index.html

"'I just spoke with President Claudia Sheinbaum of Mexico. It was a very friendly conversation wherein she agreed to immediately supply 10,000 Mexican Soldiers on the Border separating Mexico and the United States,' Trump wrote on Truth Social."

Seriously, Trudeau should make the same offer. If, as he says, only 1% of Fentanyl/illegal immigration is attributable to the Canadian border, send 10,000 bodies to stand around and do nothing.

Trump says he wants Canada to "allow U.S. banks to open or do business" here. From CBC:

A number of American banks do business in Canada with large lending and commercial and investment banking operations, among other functions, on this side of the 49th parallel. Personal banking in Canada is largely the domain of Canadian-based banks, due to stringent federal regulations designed to protect against bank failures. According to government figures, Canada's large banks hold more than 93 per cent of all domestic banking assets.

So... he's looking for us to remove federal regulations that protect against bank failures? Nice. Canada, choose your source of recession!

I mean, I'm happy to borrow from sketchy banks but would never use them for savings.

fucking this again. they were bitching and moaning back in the Chretien/Martin years that our banking policy was "outdated" and had Harper in opposition chirping the same nonsense. then what happened? oh - the wild west approach to banking in the US caused an economic disaster that Canada skated away from in much better shape than the US. they didn't learn anything and seem to have actually gotten worse and now we're back to this song and dance where they're butthurt we have our own policy on banking. like we're a sovereign nation or something. like financial stability is a stupid idea or something.
i'm guessing the only reason trump is demanding this suddenly, is he got some big donations from the banks at some point.

Tell him we'll open up 10,000 American banks along the border--maybe he'll get confused and agree. (I do feel guardedly hopeful today because of the Mexican pause, like maybe this has all been typically empty bluster.)

Mexico said they would station troops on the border - so trump can say he got something. and panama has also cancelled some deal with china. so now his baboon supporters are cheering that causing chaos with their allies is getting results. and i don't think that's good news. anytime that orange fuck wants a thing or even a distraction, he's going to fuck with our economy, spread lies and rip up (his own) trade agreements?!

"and panama has also cancelled some deal with china"

Belt road agreements have been canceled from before Trump was elected, is what I read.

oh! what i read painted it is a win for trump. but interesting if it had been cancelled already

Not entirely convinced that he even considered the goal of banking deregulation in Canada before this weekend. He can't stop from mouthing off on social media and there's been nothing so far from him on this idea. Prob more his handlers providing him with an "I meant to do that" moment.

Knowing the Libs, they'll agree to a one month pause while they "study" the proposal.

xp trump will claim it as a win regardless

Trump’s economic advisor is stressing today that the Canadian tariffs are strictly about “the drugs”, which seems incorrect and lol and has me optimistic that this 3pm call with Justin will yield a similar reprieve for Canada

On a positive note, I think the biggest effect that these tariffs (or threat of tariffs) will have on Canada is that it’s gonna spike support for the Liberals and we’ll see a November election instead of sooner (and hopefully something other than a Polievre majority when it does occur)

it's been quite fun watching polievre do the "how do we disassociate ourselves from the US party we are most closely aligned with" dance.

This is what I was pondering about a month ago:

I was wondering whether Poilievre would get more points from his supporters by standing up to Trump or by "co-operating" with him, if he could disguise the relationship so it wasn't obvious capitulation.

― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, January 8, 2025 6:01 PM (three weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

rolling over is the only way we'll survive!

Ford, of course, loves the attention far more than the problem: "It was a pleasure joining Fox News this morning on Fox and Friends to speak directly to Americans. A tariff war started by the U.S. will only hurt workers and raise costs for hard-working families on both sides of the border."

Far more than he's worried about the problem, I mean.

any excuse to put a slogan on a hat

Canada tariffs delayed until March 1. Enjoy your month.

lmao

honestly, this is ideal in a way. this looming, open threat will keep conservatives low in the polls but without our economy getting kicked in the head either.

^^^^

is Ford still going to cancel the Starlink contract?

yep, he is unripping it.

so the bluff has been called out by Canada and Mexico, and the phone calls were mainly to demand things that are actually actionable to save face and present it as the orange idiot's victory?

So if cartels are now considered terrorist organizations by Canada, can any expenditures to fight them be considered defence spending?

Also big up for the Terrorist Czars, one of the best 80s post-punk bands out of Hamilton

I had one person on my FB wall today call on everyone to cancel their Prime/Netflix/etc. subscriptions, another who posted about actually doing so, and, while I understand the sentiment, they're surely familiar with the capricious drama queen who brought this all on. You might want to hold off a day or two before putting yourself out.

we probably won't keep booing the anthem without further provocation, but I can see the Buy Canadian campaign picking up steam regardless

CNN's got someone on who's ridiculing Trump for agreeing to promises from Canada and Mexico that were already in place or decided months ago (e.g., Mexico currently has 15,000 soldiers at the border). I wish they wouldn't do that...Play along; congratulate Trump on his shrewd negotiating skills, marvel at his intimidating presence.

It's okay, MAGAs don't watch CNN

i feel like that deal and the liquor store things should absolutely stay in effect until the threat of a trade war is behind us on not just on time out

(xpost) But Trump does! He watches everything.

(easy for me to say, as i am not a sovereign nation being bullied by a large and insane neighbour, but) tariffs or no, no governments should be doing business with starlink imo

that guy doesn't give a shit about anything you value (not even grimes)

she is our foremost national treasure

Lots and lots of activity on Reddit around “buy Canadian” and … goddammit, I’ve been so lax.

Recommitting. I don’t GAF whether tariffs go through or not; the simple threat tells me that the US can’t be trusted, and divesting as much from them as possible in favour of local or “ABUSA” is the right thing to do by to do.

Alongside the “getting off META” discussion going on elsewhere, I’m ditching Spotify for Deezer (French-owned, code of ethics prohibits political donations). I moved all my business & personal purchasing off of Amazon after the election.

I feel like all this was basic-ass stuff I should have been doing all along, but like most folks I was lulled and dazzled by convenience, at the expense of my country’s wellbeing. Here we go, sleeves up, let’s do this.

ordered something from london drugs for store pickup, and there was a nice handwritten thank you note. love this store. didn't realize they were in western canada only but they sell online too.

The annexation threats alone are enough to make me not particularly want to travel to the US during Trump's term.

i cancelled plans for a road trip this upcoming summer. so far that's been it – but i was already p good about buying local and had zero subscriptions to begin with.

and while i haven't deleted my FB, i have moved most of my posts/dumb thoughts to bluesky

several years ago i deleted everything from my facebook and changed my profile photo to that of a mustachioed 1970s neal peart

would recommend, especially the latter

I checked the small print on everything I bought at the grocery store yesterday and realized this won't be easy.

faced a few years back with the choice between Heinz ketchup and Frenches, i chose mayo.

went out to grab lunch and there are posters for a planned protest at the US consulate in Van this Saturday: https://toqueoff.ca/

Ford limited questions at some event today to six, which is going to be policy from now on. Such a stupid idea (i.e., great news if you want him defeated). I'll stand by something I said all the way through the American election: antagonizing the mainstream press in just not a good idea. Harris curtailed her access, which to at least one (and probaly more) ILX'ers was a great strategy. It wasn't. When she scrambled around at the end to do the same outlets she'd been shunning, everything was magnified tenfold.

You think? Dude is going to be asked a lot about his support of trump and well all the corruption and mismanagement etc. the less sound bites he has to give denying he’s a trump lover or is corrupt af, the better off he is, I would think. Harper proved the average Canadian couldn’t give af if a politician gives fair press time or not

I think you're always better to face up to vulnerabilities than run from them. Admittedly, a hostile relationship with the press works better on the right than the left.

I see that Michael Ford won't be running in my riding again, until he appeared we regularly switched back and forth between Liberals and the NDP. Meanwhile I received his uncle's bribe cheque in the mail today.

Got mine too...You're in the North Etobicoke riding? I volunteered for Andre Domise there a few years ago (turned out to be not such a nice guy).

Details from the call last Monday.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/the-inside-story-of-a-high-stakes-call-between-justin-trudeau-and-donald-trump-as/article_26ba872c-e562-11ef-b4a0-bb36874cfd39.html

Trudeau went on to say Trump came armed with a list of trade and other irritants, and pointed to a 1908 treaty between the United States and Great Britain that established the 49th parallel as the boundary between the U.S. and the then-Dominion of Canada, suggesting it could be erased.

Trump’s 1908 treaty reference sent Trudeau and his aides scrambling during the call to “Google it” in order to understand what the president was talking about, according to the sources who spoke on condition they not be named.

According to sources, Trudeau said he replied to Trump that the treaty was replaced by the Canadian Constitution. He also reminded the president that Trudeau’s father, former prime minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau, had patriated the constitution from Great Britain to make it clear that Canada has sovereignty over its own territory.

jfc

Not sure if PET ever met Trump, but I wouldn't be surprised if Margaret did, hanging around Studio 54 in the late '70s.

I can't remember ever seeing a rapid shift in polling like this:

https://bsky.app/profile/canadianpolling.bsky.social/post/3lizuu4gjm22s

Ipsos went from CPC +13 at the start of February to LPC +2

Wild

‪Polling Canada‬ ✧@canadianpoll✧✧✧.b✧✧✧.soc✧✧✧‬
·
2m
(Support Me By Subscribing/Donating)

Federal Polling:

LPC: 38% (+5)
CPC: 36% (+2)
NDP: 12% (-6)
BQ: 6% (-2)
GPC: 4% (+2)
PPC: 3% (-2)

Ipsos / Feb 24, 2025 / n=1000 / Online

(% Change w 2021 Federal Election)

i have been telling people for like a year not to count the liberals out
canadians love them

i feel like we’re in the ‘post-biden dropping out kamala honeymoon’ period, and the conservatives will retake the lead in due time. but honestly who knows. probably has more to do with what trump does and how pollievre and conservatives respond than what carney himself does

Yeah, I've got a feeling that this liberal lead won't last either but we'll see I guess, if they can at least limit the Conservatives to a minority government that would already be better than what I could hope for a couple of months ago.

Poilievre so far seems to have no good idea about how to respond to Trump or tariffs. He's in a tough spot (of his own making), a lot of his support comes from the Canadian equivalent of MAGA, but he also needs to appeal to a minimum amount of typical Liberal voters who are very much anti-Trump these days. I very much expect the Liberals to attack him constantly as being pro-Trump/Musk (which he is, whether he admits it or not).

Canada tariffs delayed until March 1 April 2. Enjoy your month.

Or maybe not. G&M has since pulled that article

i thinks it's crazy the Poilievre is getting hit hard over this trump stuff and ford, a previously outspoken trump fanboy, is barely touched by it. by any measure this guy should not be getting reelected – *especially* considering the brazen corruption. i'm worried this guy gets in with a majority he will pivot to being a trump toe sucker. he is easily one of the most duplicitous, dishonest politicians in Canada

Not even close--ugh.

Disgusting and completely expected.

They only won by about 100 votes in this riding, I thought without a Ford on the ballot we'd go back to the Liberals or NDP.

was hoping they'd at least lose a notable amount of seats - but man. what a bummer. easily the most brazenly corrupt and dishonest party we've had running things - and most people could not give af.

On the CBC they were going on about the PCs losing a couple of seats, and the Liberals getting back official-party status, and this and that and the other--that Ford didn't get all that he wanted--but when you're looking at the scorecard across the bottom of the screen, 80-27-24-2-1, it was hard to work up much excitement.

That 24 should be a 14...

They only won by about 100 votes in this riding, I thought without a Ford on the ballot we'd go back to the Liberals or NDP.

― Halfway there but for you,

118 vote difference here, 43.07% cons over 42.69% NDP. So depressing.

oof that is brutal

🚨🚨MAJOR BREAKING

PREMIER OF ONTARIO TO SHUTOFF POWER TO 1.5 MILLION CUSTOMERS IN NEW YORK, MICHIGAN AND MINNESTOA

"If he wants to destroy our families, im going after absolutely everything" pic.twitter.com/KEi0IlLAFg

— Tablesalt 🇨🇦 (@Tablesalt13) March 3, 2025

called it

#BREAKING - Premier Ford tells the Wall Street Journal that Ontario will put a “25% export tax on electricity it sends to 1.5 million homes in Minnesota, Michigan and New York” “Ford added that he will direct the province’s energy producers to shut down the exports entirely if…

— Richard Southern (@RichardCityNews) March 4, 2025

I'm on a job right now, so had the sound down, but I watched four minutes of Trudeau with captions. "Donald, you're a very smart guy but this is a dumb thing to do." I'll put the first half down to the requisite strategic flattery, but at least he didn't mince words on the second half.

BREAKING: Ontario, Canada has banned all U.S.-based companies from government contracts, and has ended the province’s contract with Starlink, the Elon Musk-controlled satellite network.

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) March 4, 2025

Ford so rabid, Lutnick actually called him to ask him to back off. Saying that this is just a "negotiation tactic". Sure, whatever

sorry i know we all hate him and i 100% still do but can i just say i’m enjoying ford in chest-thumping trade war mode. that lutnick call thing is amazing

He’s definitely committed to the bit

Another (partial) postponement. Our very own Groundhog Day/Russian Doll ritual taking shape--two down, 46 to go.

I hope whoever our next PM is very quickly gets together with Sheinbaum and they come up with a coordinated tactical strike plan, so if Drumpf doesn’t take this bullshit negotiating tactic and shove it up his ass, we hit the US hard — 50% export taxes increasing by 10% a month on critical minerals, lumber, crude oil, electricity, potash, full ban on alcohol imports, etc, until they stand the fuck down. I understand you want to be diplomatic and non-escalatory in the early days, and there’s some sensitivity around the election etc, but there should be a point where we break out the economic nukes.

Welcome to Prime Minister Art Carney.

Not according to the opposition!

fuck

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/trump-2nd-term-live-updates-trump-defends-tariff?id=119625202&entryId=119673426&cid=social_twitter_abcn

which of the many awful things in those live updates are you referring to?

https://x.com/ABC/status/1899484341228441754

that's wild

at least elon will finally get deported

Amazing that in the middle of the most hotly contested election in decades, this thread is moribund.

CanPol is just not as sexy as USpol. Thank fuck.

I see so many more ads from Polievre than Carney, it makes me worried

I hope this polling is right but I don't really trust it honestly: https://338canada.com/polls.htm

44-38 for the Liberals, according to a Global/Ipsos poll. I've become very fatalistic, though--Harris started off with a bang too.

same. just want it to be over already

PP has literally been doing political bullshit his whole life. He's a debate troll, it's like they're running Ben Shapiro for PM. And Carney doesn't have the reps. I'm just hoping that enough Canadians see PP on stage and realize he's the most annoying and repellent person in the country.

the idea of having these two guys in charge of the US and Canada is just so fucking depressing. And I'm having some health issues these days, I really don't want the right going Milei with a chainsaw on the government.

I don't know if dooming on the CanPol thread is actually a valuable contribution, but it's what I got!

thankfully, don't underestimate canadians' love of voting Liberal

More like fear of conservatives. I don’t normally interact with any political stuff on the instagrams but randomly got served a clip of a Turner / Mulroney debate from the 80s, where Turner is chastising brain for selling our economy out to the US… it was pretty poignant imho and I’m certain that is on the mind of a lot of Canadians. Not just Mulroney, but Stephen Harper shamelessly sucking the US’s ass for his entire career and PP just mimicking republican garbage.

No one wants it, nothing he can say will dissuade people from equating him with the US/trump and everytime him or someone connected to him starts going off about “woke” shit or slashing government services etc - it sounds distasteful to everyone expect the most die hard brain wormed incels. Most of the swing over the last few months has (I believe) come from the base of NDP, BLOC and green - and it’s not a love of voting liberal; it’s a self preservation instinct of voting against the CPC. It’s amazing really, how long PP was ahead in the polls while still being so unliked by Canadians.

Pp did an incredible job of stirring up vitriol — hatred, even — against JT and to a lesser extent the carbon tax. With his bogeymen gone, he’s floundering. But what’s amazing to me is that, even with Carney basically yeeting all of the Cons’ half-decent ideas (or at least overlapping on a bunch of em), Conservative support has hardly budged — they’re holding steady with numbers that would usually propel a party to victory. It’s just that everyone else loathes them so much they’re willing to abandon the NDP etc to keep timbit GOP out.

There’s a lot of question whether the ABC coalition is solid enough to do it. Poilievre’s voters are motivated. Why, who the fuck knows — I can’t abide the thought of hearing his goddamn voice all the time. He’s almost as repugnant as Trump.

I feel like the voter turnout is going to be higher than usual this election which I think should favour the liberals, but who knows anymore.

The polls should make me confident that the conservatives won't win this election but I have a nagging feeling that liberal support will go down again as more of Carney's faults are exposed. Also, this is for Quebec only, but Carney's French is not particularly good and I feel like this is going to hurt him here when the French language debate happens and most people hear him speak French for the first time.

has Quebec ever voted en masse for a candidate with poor French?

I honestly can't think of one. Stephen Harper's French was not great either (though from what I remember, better than what I've heard of Mark Carney) and he managed to get a decent amount of votes at some point, but he never managed to get the most votes in Quebec.

carney's doing great in quebec so far
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-quebec-seems-ready-to-cut-mark-carney-some-slack/

and please see Chantal Hébert (sorry for the x link, but she's not on bsky):

Yep https://t.co/CxPeZ1z1EE

— chantal hébert (@ChantalHbert) March 26, 2025

I think that globe and mail article is probably correct, but it still worries me somewhat. I think that Carney's French language skills would be a huge issue for him in Quebec in a normal election.

i agree with chantal. i had heard people talking about how bad carney’s french was before i’d ever heard him speak, and then when i heard it my reaction was ‘oh it’s not that bad’

“Je suis un grand-père”

So, like, no new tariffs for Canada today? Is it possible that PINO is avoiding any further provocations here in order to deflate some of the current LPC lead in the polls? I really can't believe that, as it'd be far too disciplined a strategy for him.

the 25% on autos will apply to us, but we are exempt from the 10% baseline tariff

Right but the auto tariffs were already announced, although prob as a sudden attempted distraction from Signalgate.

Also I don't think there's been any further mention of the 51st state BS since he spoke with Carney. Could it have been something as simple as him hating on JT? Whatever the case, the Libs sure have taken advantage of the original threat.

ya the auto ones were announced ahead of time but go in tonight. nothing in what was announced at the rose garden applies to canada or Mexico

Could it have been something as simple as him hating on JT?

it’s all about that pic where it looks like melania is kissing justin

Yup I think it really was that pathetic

If this is Danielle Smith's galaxy-brain plan to throw the election to PP by getting Trump to talk respectfully about Carney, it seems completely ineffective for voters.

when you compare DJT to JT, he's way more of a D

Canadians aren't going to forget that America is an economic and moral gong show just because he doesn't "truth" about the 51st state for a few weeks

I guess it's also extremely possible that Trump has no idea who Danielle Smith is. She's come to see him at Mar-a-lago a lot but she probably looks like a lot of other ladies who hang out there.

yeah sym otm, the damage is done

DJT and JT were both stunt-cast in their respective political roles but symsymsym is correct in the notable distinction between the two

With much trepidation, decided I may as well finish up with The Handmaid's Tale, which resumed for its final season this week. Watching the the previous season's finale--it's been three years!--first, and was struck by this exchange:

June: Luke, this country is changing.
Luke: No. Canada's not Gilead.
June: America wasn't Gilead, until it was, and then it was too fucking late.

That would have been way too close for comfort two months ago, but it looks like we might be spared. Might.

good luck canada

was anyone able to tolerate the debate? Too early for me on the west coast, fortunately.

no, i've stopped doing that to myself years ago

PVMIC but we're going to miss the NDP when they're gone

Worried that this is tightening.

Polievre holding rallies in Saskatoon, Calgary, and his home riding down the stretch would suggest internal polling is showing the opposite. But you never know.

It would. And I guess Trump blabbering about 51st state again yesterday can only help.

Enjoyed the Narduwar/Carney interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZmh_PNMImE

Surprised there haven’t been headlines saying “Carney claims he’s a Charli XCX fan, but he can’t tell Brat variants apart. Has he lost the Gen Z vote?”

Don't forget to vote!

Kind of weird how this election seems somehow way more important than past elections but there's really nothing to discuss, nothing of note really happened during the campaign (except obviously for everything going on in the US) and everything seems mostly the same as it was at the beginning of the campaign.

i'm hopeful that if carney wins, he gets a big enough mandate that between that and the thrill of how quickly it all happened turns him into one of those giddy Liberals (like Justin was at first, frankly) who feels energized to spend and develop new programs

and if the Conservatives pull off a "change"-based upset, i'm relieved that the tariff/anti-US stuff will motivate him to establish daylight between him and Trumpism

voting ndp though, obviously - (and impotently, in a solidly red riding)

i'm assuming NDP will get wiped out here; assuming Singh finally goes, maybe a good time to rejoin the party to help with next leader selection?

if they go below ten seats, they're going to have a hard time ever recapturing any ground. feels like the NDP haven't flipped a red riding back since 2011. voters in a liberal incumbent riding that could potentially go NDP are the same voters that would vote strategically ABC, whether it's rational or not.

though yes, a new leader would be a start.

Very surprised to see only three names on the ballot, in a Toronto riding.

voting ndp though, obviously - (and impotently, in a solidly red riding)

Same for me, I live in probably one of the safest liberal ridings in Canada, so my vote is mostly meaningless, but it gives me the luxury of not having to consider strategic voting. I would probably vote liberal if there was a chance the conservatives or BQ could win here.

same. i'm in hedy fry's riding and i don't think she even bothers campaigning anymore since it's such a safe liberal riding, which allows me to keep voting NDP.

I'm a bit shaken up reading about the terrible attack on the Lapu Lapu day festival on Saturday, not far from my neighbourhood. I hope the tragedy gives urgency to funding emergency mental health services.

Same here too! Voting NDP in what’s normally a lib/NDP battleground, but has been solidly liberal the last two elections.

I appreciated trumps dumb messages today - should energize that moderate vote that normally loves to stay home, if they had started to consider sitting this one out.

Really curious yo see where the turnout numbers land historically.

A few thoughts:

1. My social media, esp my IG, has been filled with my politically-aware mutuals telling their other politically-aware followers to vote, which seems hilariously performative (there are worse things to be performative about, I just find it funny)

2. I’ve found strategic voting to be normalized this election more than any I’ve been aware of in the past, and frankly, it bums me the fuck out. I know how bad Polly Eve and the Conservatives are but still. I blame the numerous sites out there (smartvoting, votewell, etc) but mostly I blame Trudeau for reneging on what he said he would do

3. Like some of you above, I also pointlessly voted for the NDP candidate in my strong Liberal riding. Curious, what ridings are you all in? I’m in Toronto Centre (mentioned this before)

I'm in Saint-Laurent (Quebec). I just looked it up and the Liberals got just short of 60% of votes here in the last two elections. Most likely they will do slightly better this time.

I live in Jack Layton’s former riding, the Liberal Julie Dabrusin has held it for two terms, and I like her. I voted Liberal for the first time in my life. Big middle finger to JT for campaigning on electoral reform and then lobbing poo at everyone who believed he’d even attempt to implement it

I'm a bit shaken up reading about the terrible attack on the Lapu Lapu day festival on Saturday, not far from my neighbourhood. I hope the tragedy gives urgency to funding emergency mental health services.

― symsymsym, Monday, 28 April 2025 bookmarkflaglink

Sorry to hear that. Hope the outcome of this election improves things.

Also, it helps that Carney is a rare Liberal that I like; the last Liberal leader I would’ve conceivably voted for was Stephane Dion

@symsymsym I am relieved to learn that it was not a targeted hate crime

I was registered via my cousin's address in Edmonton Strathcona (NDP) but didn't renew my vote from abroad ballot bc it felt, idk, disingenuous when I haven't lived in Canada for many years and wouldn't want to live in Alberta again. Maybe wrong choice in hindsight. Hoping for everyone to choose the least bad outcome.

Voted for Joel Harden (NDP) in Ottawa Centre, a Lib/NDP battleground. I'm guessing that Liberals will probably take it again.

On my way to cast a wasted Liberal vote (very conservative riding).

After a week of people complaining about long advance-voting lines, I was in and out in three minutes today. Hasn't advance-voting become so popular that it now defeats its own purpose?

Incumbent here is Terry Sheehan (Lib.), so I'm choosing to reassure myself that's an encouraging sign.

This is very strange and desperate, yet sneaky - in my mailbox today is a large postcard saying that our Liberal MP "IS YOUR JUSTIN TRUDEAU CANDIDATE", with a picture of the two of them smiling on the reverse. Careful scrutiny shows that, in tiny upside-down letters in a slightly different shade of red, this has been authorized by our Conservative candidate.

I live in Jack Layton’s former riding, the Liberal Julie Dabrusin has held it for two terms

that's where i used to live! (west end now)
last election we had canvasers come around for Julie and i said "oh, you're cruisin' for Da-brusin!" and they looked at me like i was the dumbest human being on the planet

...and that's how they drove you into the arms of the People's Party

From the Star:

The Toronto band Martha and the Muffins is calling on Pierre Poilievre to stop using “Echo Beach” at his campaign rallies without their authorization.
Members of the group say they’ve been told the Conservative Party of Canada has been playing their 1980 new wave hit at some campaign events despite the musicians asking them to stop last month.

Representatives for the Conservative party did not respond to a request for comment.

Band member Mark Gane says he first learned Poilievre’s campaign had used “Echo Beach” after reading a story in a local Sudbury newspaper earlier this year. He says his manager then sent a cease and desist request to the Conservative party.

How are the Conservatives using Martha and the Muffins when Nickelback is sitting right there for them?

this is the perfect cancon scandal

Hasn't advance-voting become so popular that it now defeats its own purpose?

yes! I was in and out in five minutes, a couple blocks away from my house. I remember a time that you needed to swear you wouldn't be around on election day to be allowed to advance vote but maybe I am misremembering how strict it was.

I'm in NDP incumbent Don Davies' riding, who is an MP with an excellent political track record and from all reports has an office that is very helpful with constituent services. Hope strategic voting doesn't wash him away and replace him with another Liberal apparatchik.

Voted Liberal in my strong Liberal riding (Windsor - Tecumseh). Incumbent is a good guy with a strong record of getting things done for the area.

I keep hearing Carney’s got this but I just don’t trust voters—any voters— anymore (or rather, even less than I ever did). Just please don’t fuck this up, Canada.

Feeling not great by the early returns from Atlantic Canada

cons doing a little better than expected - but nothing shocking. the big movement this election is supposed to be NDP and some bloc support going liberal; so no need to freak out yet

Thanks, my expectations were unreasonably optimistic

This is going to be a long night

Going to sound like a time capsule from 2016: should I be nervous?

everyone needs to take a deep breath

possibly unpatriotic link, but the nytimes site shows who's leading by previous incumbent/riding winner. Looks to me like Liberals are eating a lot of other parties' lunch right now (but I'm no expert):

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/28/world/canada/results-canada-federal-election.html

Can Dave Chappelle help us? He was a calming influence in 2016 (after-the-fact)...

we'll all tell our grandkids that there used to be an NDP once

My friend is telling me CTV has called it for the Liberals!

And CBC...but not sure if majority/minority.

watching election coverage is a good way to realize that I've never heard of any of these places

what is a Toronto anyway

Ton o' rot

gonna be super close for majority/minority. lots of interesting shifts. would be surprised if PP lost his seat, but dude has to step down and let the cpc decide if they want to swing a more moderate direction or just go even crazier. Libs can't keep winning like this forever tho and i hope the conservatives do some serous soul searching

PP needs to resign tonight for all of our mental and physical health

There are like 90 candidates running in PP's riding--gotta be impossible for him not to win (or does he have to win 50%).

https://i.postimg.cc/T3dqgD3X/ballot.jpg

how is that possible lol

I know this sounds hokey, but I am proud that, as a country, we're basically saying to Trump what (enough) Americans haven't been able to say: go fuck yourself. This wouldn't have even been close if not for him.

I mean, it's far from sunshine and light--our divisions are stark--but something did happen in the last month.

v. happy for yous

the ballots in PP riding are this weird protest group what are flooding ballots with names to make some kind of point - but i totally forget what it is

Feeling better this hour but there are still so many close margins

Fanjoy leading PP in... one poll. Still, what a glorious moment.

bernier is projected to lose his seat. awesome if it happens

looking like a bit of a red boost toward the end of counting due to the advanced ballots (not counting PPs riding where they counted first)

xp Indeed

Minority unfortunately...but I assume no one will partner with PCs.

as long as the NDP can hold balance and not the bloc

cons are pulling up closer over the last 30 mins

I think my friend's right--no one wants another election anytime soon after this one and the Ontario election. Bringing down a minority government would not be popular with most of the country.

(xpost) Uncomfortably so--geez, I may have to retract my post above.

Rooting for you guys!

(we have a fed election this weekend as well, so we're in a similar boat)

Major 2016 flashbacks.

This is insanely tight at the moment. Let's have those advance vote results so that I can ease back on the wine.

Fanjoy's still ahead of PP with 8 polls.

Pleeeease, this will be so funny.

Back and forth. We're getting Bush/Gore and 2016 in the same night.

Looks like a Liberal/NDP coalition?

seeing the advance polls come in on the east coast is encouraging. giving the libs a boost right at the end and flipping a couple seats red

it's close, but if the advanced surge hold at the end of counting, ya - NDP balance of power

Comforting that all ballots are paper and hand-counted.

PP must be absolutely livid about trump

PP still second place after 40 polls

Jamil Jivani (CPC) ranting about doug ford on cbc was great

Ford's Politico interview today was also fairly blunt

(xpost) Loved that!

I told my friend that I think Ford's been angling for the Federal leadership, and that he's happy about tonight; PP goes down, he's the guy who put country ahead of party. My friend says he could never learn French...

PP far behind Lovejoy with 120/266 polls. So which newly elected CPC MP will step down to allow this guy another shot?

Singh stepping down, no surprise.

he had to do it - but i'm also sad for the guy. always found him likeable

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/longest-ballot-protest-candidates-carleton-riding-poilievre-1.7503993

NDP holding balance of power (with Elizabeth May) at this moment

This is such an inconclusive mess. I'm looking at a scoreboard that says Liberal/NDP at 171, PC/BQ at 171, and the Green Party at 1. In the popular vote, the Liberals are up by a percent.

PP speaking now. Step down, boy!

Jagmeet Singh is stepping down

At least this time he didn't jump

a podcaster I like is leading in a Calgary seat for the Liberals

Very grateful for the Quebec voters who kept the CPC at bay. Can't imagine the BQ supporting the CPC very much, if at all

xp The Strategists is a terrible podcast for centrist morons and Corey Hogan can absolutely fuck himself: https://www.readthemaple.com/liberal-star-candidate-helped-shut-down-pro-palestine-encampment/

Seems to be definite advance-voting movement towards the Liberals in a half-dozen ridings.

Good point made on the CBC: if a bunch of ridings flip overnight, we don't really have to worry about some massive outcry about a rigged election tomorrow. There'll probably be some of that at the margins, but nothing even remotely like what you'd get from an election involving Trump.

that point seemed a little wishful for me, PP will be freaking out if he's really locked out of govt

i thought it was just wishful thinking, but he is probably losing his seat. 256 of 266 and he is behind by over 3,000 votes. it would take a miracle for him to overcome that at this point. this is amazing.

super funny

Voted Liberal in my strong Liberal riding (Windsor - Tecumseh). Incumbent is a good guy with a strong record of getting things done for the area.

I keep hearing Carney’s got this but I just don’t trust voters—any voters— anymore (or rather, even less than I ever did). Just please don’t fuck this up, Canada.

― cryptosicko, Monday, April 28, 2025 7:55 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

So, there was a fire at a major polling station in my riding (we early-voted last week) and the Liberal incumbent ended up losing his seat after all. No cause for the fire has been determined yet. Hmm.

Pardon my Yank ignorance, but with Poilievre losing his seat how does he stay in office? Someone else just gives up their seat to him?

was hoping for a lib majority just to prevent having to go through all this again in 18 months, but I can live with this I guess.

From what I understood listening to the news this morning, the Bloc is not interested in having an election for at least 2 years (they don't want an election during negotiations with Trump nor in fall 2026, when there will be Quebec provincial elections). The NDP will obviously not want elections as long as they don't have a leader and I think they will take their time with this. So I think we're safe from the conservatives for at least 2 years.

And yes, very happy to see PP lose his seat, I would hope that's the end of him in politics, but I've got the feeling he will stay as leader.

Someone else just gives up their seat to him?

yes

PP losing his seat in Carleton most likely was due to boundary changes, which brought more Liberal voters to the riding, and Fanjoy being more active and respected in the community. Also, a politician shouldn't malign public servants if they're going to run in a riding with many public servants. Finally, Ottawans still remember with disgust his vocal support for the convoy occupation. If he somehow manages to convince the CPC to let him run again, it'll be in an Alberta by-election.

Nationally the CPC got their numbers wrt popular vote and seats despite their leader. Another more centrist leader would've destroyed the Liberals. I expect the CPC will be in disarray for the next several months.

Was up to 3:00, just got up...Is 168 solid, or are there still at least four ridings wavering?

Poilievre's not going anywhere yet, but it's clear that he and Doug Ford have a big split. I'm excited at the prospect that they'll spend the next few years tearing the Conservative coalition apart.

Alexandre Boulerice (the lone NDPer to be elected in Québec) is a good, smart politician; am also hopeful that he'll have some authority to help shape the direction that party heads in next.

cbc still haven't called it as a minority fwiw

totally disagree with you that a Conservative centrist would have wiped the floor - a very large proportion of PP's appeal to voters was his Trumpism

Someone else just gives up their seat to him?
yes

Just to be more specific on how this works, somebody in a safe conservative riding resigns and they hold a by-election with Poilievre as the conservative candidate which he wins easily.

PP lost Quebec with his Trumpism. That was fatal to their chance at winning.

Boulerice for interim NDP leader would make a lot of sense.

sorry i wasn't clear before - i don't mean that Pierre's Trumpism was what made him so popular; but it was responsible for a large share of his popularity. Without that nasty radical edge, he wouldn't have been able to catch fire. (See: O'Toole.)

totally disagree with you that a Conservative centrist would have wiped the floor - a very large proportion of PP's appeal to voters was his Trumpism

I'm not sure I agree with this. I think a big reason a lot of NDP and Bloc voters switched to liberal this election is because Poilievre is so despised, I think with a centrist (less Trump-like) conservative they would have probably voted for their regular party.

o'toole lost just a few years ago!

a very large proportion of PP's appeal to voters was his Trumpism

and that's exactly what took him from polling in the majority territory to second place. again. dude was too trumpy and as soon as the 51st state shit started, people ran - not just from possibly switching to conservative, but also from 3rd parties to candidates that had the best shot to beat the guy. a majority of the country rallied around an "anyone but this trump fanboy" approach. if it was someone more like O'Toole in charge, they would have dominated, even with the PPC syphoning votes

wow several xposts

it's completely true that after Trump's tariff turn, Poilievre's Trumpian move fucked him over, but centrist Conservatism couldn't win either - Maxime Bernier and similar extremism is just too popular, and without it, the conservatives lack the juice (see: O'Toole)

i don't think there was a way for the Conservatives to win this unless the Liberal candidate was objectionable

"anyone but this trump fanboy"

Fanjoy over fanboy

ya, O'Toole lost a few elections ago and that was a few elections ago. PP would have lost then too i'd imagine and if we had O'toole now instead of PP (if they had swapped timelines) - they would have a majority. a federal party forming government a 4th time is very very hard – and PP simply being PP is what delivered that to the libs (obviously trump and other factors too)

xpost what did the PPC pull two elections ago? i think the noise-to-actual-votes rate was pretty low for them really. you have a fringe party that might drain 2% of your base vs 5-10% of the population that would vote for a more moderate CPC. thats a no brainer imho. especially when the protest vote (bloc NDP) are so revulsed they actively help your opponent

There are numerous good things about these results: the Liberals have a mandate but tempered by having to make a coalition; the NDP hold the balance but they get to reset with a new leader; Poilievre now has a stink of loserdom; the Bloc are basically impotent; and the Greens still have a seat and visibility.

ya, O'Toole lost a few elections ago and that was a few elections ago.

that wasn't "a few elections ago" - it was the very last federal election!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Canadian_federal_election

re PPC, per that wiki:

Mainstreet Research CEO Quito Maggi and University of Toronto political science professor Nelson Wiseman posited that the PPC may have cost the Conservatives at least ten ridings.[169][170][171] The votes obtained by PPC candidates were larger than the margin of victory in 21 ridings, where the Conservative candidate was in second place (12 in Ontario, five in BC, two in Alberta, one in Quebec and one in Newfoundland).

It's definitely true that PP could have won in 2021, but the debate we're having is whether a Conservative centrist would have beat Carney. I agree with you that such a candidate would have cost the Liberal votes, but my point is that those pick-ups would have come at the expense of the huge bloc of farther-right conservatives who represent the majority of that party right now

halfway there OTM

also important detail i saw on wiki: "Observers noted that a significant amount of PPC support arose from non-Conservative voters."

how sustainable was that PPC support tho? i feel like a lot would have slunk (and did, tho why is up for debate) back to the CPC, no matter who the con's leader was after they failed to win any seats beyond Bernier's

Windsor-Tecumseh hasn't been called yet fwiw, it's very close

Fully agree with halfway's summary upthread. "Stink of loserdom" is exact. When did the Big Blue Machine ever allow second chances? Gov't is about to move very quickly and the CPC leader will be outside the House until a by-election is called.

it was interesting that after two years of bring it home ads prominently featuring PP's face, they switched to two wheezing golfers and Stephen Harper in Lynchian makeup for the final stretch of the campaign

funny that the NDP had their worst collapse in history but will still be needed for the Liberals to pass anything

Stephen Harper in Lynchian makeup

irl lol

their main issue was boomers going liberal, so all their ads were focusing on aging white males. i'm not sure those ghoulish harper ads helped. when he flashed that aged-out joker smile, i'm sure even a lot of decided con voters were shuddering

Pink lipstick on a pig, as it were

it’s clear poilievre lost because he was too trumpy, that he would’ve won if not for trump getting elected. harder to say whether a less-trumpy conservative would’ve won. bernier only got 0.7% of the vote yesterday, down from 4.9% in 2021, when he cost the conservatives somewhere around 10 seats. is that all due to poilievre?it also depends on how strongly the backlash to trump’s election hinged on poilievre himself

Windsor-T has one poll left to report and a deficit of 350 votes. so possible for that advanced poll effect, but i would not say likely.
i have a friend (tho avoiding him like crazy lately) who's family is in windsor and they all have rabid right wing brain worms. it seems to be a shift in the area... maybe too close, proximity-wise, to republican propaganda?

this was my first election as a Canadian citizen. I'm very glad PP/Cons didn't win, but it's definitely a bummer than this feels so much like a typical two-party US election, though I appreciate the difference in sym's most recent post. Like a lot of you I voted NDP in a Liberal riding — Steven Guilbeault reelected by a big margin — and feel generally bad about this rightward turn (thankfully less than could have been, of course) happening at a time that, IMO, we can't afford to be dicking around with technocracy + light austerity + green capitalism and increasing anti-immigrant sentiment.

I get that trump/the US was the main issue here, and I don't disagree with that, but it feels like globally so many countries are meeting a moment of environmental and social crisis with a complete failure of imagination. tbf I never expected Canada to lead the way — one of the things I like most about living here is that this country doesn't really matter that much on the global scale and is unlikely to throw relative social stability away for symbolic nonsense — and maybe Carney will surprise me in realizing that reconfiguring Canadian sovereignty away from the US could be an opportunity for even greater good

btw if anyone wants to start a new thread, go for it. I only made this one because the old one wouldn't load on Zing — "old and corrupted" was a reference to the Zing error message, not a commentary on anything/one lol

oh I think the shoe still fits!

great post Rob, this summarizes my biggest fear for what's to come:

we can't afford to be dicking around with technocracy + light austerity + green capitalism and increasing anti-immigrant sentiment.

Carney doesn't appear to be an egomaniac like Macron or a quisling like Sir Keir, but the conflict of enlightened centrist technocrats vs the loud cryptofash is not going great everywhere else

PP lost his seat im hearing? Rest in piss

haha yeah he might be back soon as discussed above, but def satisfying

PP will have the standard future of being a consultant / lobbyist / panelist (ugh) but i think his days of leading the cons are done - partially because cpc is not a party of second chances but mainly (i hope) because of the realization of many members that the patronizing approach of three letter three word slogans delivered by an antagonizing asshole might not be very sellable outside of the smaller subset of similar smug assholes. either that, or they'll pivot to doubling down, south of the border style - but that would just alienate even more people.

PP trajectory was spelled out back when he was still the harper's lapdog who mostly distinguished himself - again - by being a smug asshole. so to see this particular arc played to this finish is so, so delicious. and i hope this spells fewer contracts for jenni byrne and byrne becoming a persona non grata in canadian politics.

just going back to the PPC talk above: looks like even after catering to that wing of conservatism/populism the CPC still lost a couple seats by the margin of votes PPC got!

Vote splitting on the right still alive and well!

Met a bunch of Albertans from Ft Mac at a restaurant last night, they were drunk and animated and so angry that I’d voted Liberal. (They actually left because the wee Newfie among them was angling to punch me.) I tried to get an understanding from them about why they hated the Liberals so much and basically it’s that they get taxed like a CEO on the 300k a year they make operating bulldozers (52%, they said). I told them I make 80 a year “if I’m lucky and working hard every day” doing what I do, and that PP threatened to do away with many mechanisms that secure me that paltry amount (CBC, Factor, tax credits for Canadian productions) and that “I’d never owned a house” and the wee Newfie was livid and shouting in my face that “I’d never own a house now” and none of it made any sense.

It’s odd, it feels as if the gulf between Liberals and NDP in terms of their policies is kinda-vast for Lefties who don’t wanna vote centrist, but the gap between Liberals and Cons is EVEN MORE VAST; maybe we been the PCP to pivot centre somewhat as it was before the Alliance and bring back a party for the racist loonies (Wild Rose, Reform, whatever) to sink their votes into

*maybe we need, not maybe we been

somehow i doubt all those former NDP supporters will be able to push the libs left

Fuck me id pay a 50% tax rate to drive a bulldozer for three hundred grand.

Thought Newfies (or Atlantic Candaians) are pretty solidly Liberal?

There is a particular type of Newfoundlander who historically would commute for four-day work weeks from Nfld out to Ft Mac and make buckets of money but stay living on the rock. Newf last night told me that this type of migratory behaviour had been discouraged and/or made impossible, and he (and his large Newf mate) had relocated permanently to Ft Mac. I don't think anybody making more than 150 a year (especially as a dirt-digger; their job description! I love it) is likely to be voting anything but PCP regardless of their place of birth/point of origin. These guys were full-tilt pro-51 people though. We're in Phoenix right now, me for work, them for a vacation. I've met more Canadians than Americans, here, in the last 18 hours

I read 67% voter turnout and I am happy to have read that

Libs up to 169 seats now

Looks like it's officially a 169-seat minority; Peel/GTA cost the Liberals a majority. I don't know who has leverage over who, but, as pointed out by others above, the chances of another election in the next two years seem remote.

Yeah. Our (new) GTA riding went blue by only about 700 votes. 73% turnout though, so people at least cared.

It's just anecdotal, but the national distribution of these results makes some sense to me in terms of which areas are "happy" vs "want change". I'm a lifelong Ontario resident, and the quality of life here seems notably worse in many ways, than 15/20 years ago. By contrast, I visited the east coast circa 2001 then again recently, and things out there seem quite improved. Also Vancouver in 2006 vs this year and it was shockingly degraded. Unfortunately no point of reference for Alberta and the prairies, but we have family who moved out there and are decidedly now amongst the F Trudeau people, and are not racist, so I guess it rings true that the gripes are largely economic anger. As for Quebec, from short visits to Montreal and Quebec City, it seems to be holding steady, consequently not seriously worked up either way. Obviously there's more nuance in all areas, but that's my general impression.

My sister and brother-in-law are in Georgetown--he said there was a big change this year in the election boundaries?

Oh, it was actually even closer than I thought - only 298 votes! But yes, Georgetown was part of Wellington, Michael Chong's PC riding in the last election, but now they've created a new riding where it's now tacked on to at the top of Milton east and (for now) a bunch of empty fields. Mostly because there is massive amounts of new development planned in that space in next few years, so quite likely it will be the last time it goes blue (but who can say). Now I see why Carney was in town twice within about as many weeks leading up!

Robert Fife on CBC’s Power and Politics re: Conservative MPs feelings about Pierre Poilievre.

“MPs have told me that they found it really difficult going door-to-door because a lot of people were saying ‘we some of the policies you’re doing, but we think your leader is a dick’.” pic.twitter.com/RE6n3a78NG

— Ahmar Khan (@AhmarSKhan) May 1, 2025

And a matter of days after the election, taxpayers will be on the hook for a fucking bi-election in Alberta, where milhouse will be making a pathetic bid to keep his residence at Stornoway.
The conservatives need to take the hint and drop that absolutely clown.

dammit. Guess it was too much to hope for that the ghouls would turf him

I like how they found him the safest seat in the country, not taking any chances this time

what does the guy who resigned get out of this?

also does PP have to physically move his residence into the riding?

I have one friend who agrees with me, and two friends who strongly disagree (because of French): I think Ford is angling to run for the PC leadership.

If you mean the CPC leader, I don't think it's an open position

the guy who resigned is six months away from receiving a government pension apparently, so he's not getting much out of it besides gratitude from some jackasses. maybe they'll promise him he can have the seat back next time?

and I don't think you need to live in your riding. he'll set up an office but I doubt Edmonton-Crowfoot will be seeing much of the guy.

ty

Holy crap, I think our riding actually just flipped Liberal when they verified it?! I'm just seeing local posts. Something official must be out there

Yes, wow, and the margin is only 29 votes.

must have been some big errors to flip a 300 vote margin: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/election-validation-riding-flip-liberal-conservative-1.7525641

If you mean the CPC leader, I don't think it's an open position

Oh, I don't mean today; I think he's laying the groundwork for ~three years from now, when PP is either out or even less popular than he is now. I think my friend and friend's brother are missing the forest for the trees by fixating on the issue of French. Political ambition doesn't know the trees, just the forest, and Ford doesn't lack for ambition.

Toronto Marathon today:

https://i.postimg.cc/HswsWNhr/marathon.jpg

beautiful

I'm out right now, piecing together sketchy details of the big meeting today.

"Some things aren't for sale."
"Never say never."

Never--there, I said it.

I'm watching some CBC people talk about the meeting, and how Carney smiled at certain times instead of taking the bait, and I had a flash that, in preparing to meet with Trump, it's probably a lot like Father Merrin's pre-game speech in The Exorcist:

We may ask what is relevant, but anything beyond that is dangerous. He is a liar, the demon is a liar. He will lie to confuse us. But he will also mix lies with the truth to attack us. The attack is psychological , Damien. And powerful. So don't listen, remember that, do not listen.

Except for maybe the part about mixing in the truth--not sure if Trump ever does that.

I was on Vancouver Island all last week and heard this radio interview with Jäger Rosenberg, an 18-year-old NDP candidate in West Vancouver. One of the most interesting parts is where he talks about teens identifying as conservative because the party has made more efforts to connect with them, but when asked about to talk about specific values and policies, their preferences are traditionally liberal. I think a very similar thing has happened in the U.S.

I honestly can’t give a shadow of a shit about this meeting. Nothing will come of it. It’s no different than going to the old folks home to see your racist grandpa. No useful information will come of it and anything discussed will be forgotten.

Not worth the cost of travel outside of saying you tried. All we can so is work on trade partnerships with real countries and deal with the last-movie-he-watched edicts from his toilet

… as they come.

… as they come.

I don't know--ideally, yes, but my preference would still be that all his nonsense is directed elsewhere.

Trump was asked what top concession he wants out of Canada.

“Friendship,” the president responded.

When journalists pointed out that isn’t a concession, Trump said, "I just want to be friends with Canada.”

why is this so funny

why does Trump love Carney so much

the "film tariffs" which is totally a thing that makes sense as a concept, are spreading a lot of fear and angst among my friends and loved ones. Jon Voight can go fuck himself

A friend in town told me about something that I haven't bothered to check--that when Trump's son got into some serious financial trouble, Brookfield bailed him out when Carney was there? Sounds plausible, at least.

Also: no photos in circulation of Melania Trump eyeing Carney salaciously.

This is great: "Having met with the owners of Canada over the course of the campaign, it's not for sale."

And with that statement, DJT's brain began to spin as he tried to grasp how some other country had managed to buy Canada before he could. "Probably Jina," he mumbled to himself before his thoughts turned to the upcoming lunch menu

Also Carney joined Brookfield in August 2020 but the Brookfield acquisition of Kushner's Manhattan office tower lease happened two years earlier, in 2018

Good to know--will gladly point that out to my friend (a good guy, but a churchgoer and--inexplicably, for that very reason, if you ask me--a conservative).

Saw the Carney clip: as soon as Trump says "never say never," Carney silently (or maybe audibly and it was noisy) mouths "never" five or six times for the reporters. Love it.

is it just me or does trump seem to like carney? if so, anyone got any theories as to why? respect for his wall street background?

Sawdust Lagoon shot down my one (second-hand) theory above. Who knows? Maybe his Canadian ire was just 100% Trudeau-focused.

maybe his central casting bankerness

though it's always possible today is the historical high point of the relationship

As soon as it sinks in that Carney made him look silly--will probably take a day and a few dozen headlines--antipathy will rapidly take hold.

There's also that Carney just won a big election after the party was down in the polls, Trump likes winners.

Yeah--I think he even joked about it at the beginning, how he deserved the credit for Carney winning. Um, yeah, but...