U.S. Politics, October 2024 -- “They smear because they fear”

Thank you, Raymond!

Here go, the final stretch

Important questions for tonight:

Does anything remain of the guy people were drawn to from “Hillbilly Elegy”? Does he have a core and if so, is it at all decent?

As for Walz, what qualities does he bring to the table other than being a guy Kamala Harris gets along with?

Do you support Israel’s attack on Hezbollah?
How can we best confront China?
How can the government make parenting easier?
Does industrial policy work?

Are we equipped to face a coordinated challenge from Moscow, Beijing, Tehran and Pyongyang — and if not, will a Harris administration support a big increase in defense spending?

In 2018, I gathered some friends at my house to help JD think through his life options. This route wasn’t the one we recommended!

lol nice

If there’s a question about the Middle East, my prediction is that it’ll be dodged.

Does anything remain of the guy people were drawn to from “Hillbilly Elegy”?

Sure! He played that character before and he can play him again should he find it useful.

The real question is if/when Trump loses, who Vance will become next.

My guess is back to the "aw shucks, I'm just a simple backwater guy who got duped by that Trump guy" grifter.

From yet another NYT focus group on undecided voters:

https://i.imgur.com/bOD4sfo.jpg

So THAT'S why the UK had a war with Argentina

Honestly, I fear a *lot* of people like that guy in this election. Trying to stay hopeful and not dwell on it, but.

also not sure if that guy is actually undecided

Stop being a female overcome with emotion, Raymond!

when have men ever started a war?

We need the cold analytical mind of Trump

I think trump might be slightly squeamish about war, one of his only redeeming qualities

People keep trying to projecting that on to him but I don’t buy it

There are men, and then there are females.

Weird.

The female of the species, etc.

Any species, apparently.

WEIRRRRD

I think Trump may indeed be squeamish about war in exactly the same way that he may not be personally opposed to abortion: any personal preferences, real or perceived, can be put aside in favor of whatever he thinks might please his cult on any given day.

I think that's right, but nothing to linger on.

remember Hillary The Hawk?

Yeah, if you read about Trump's ill-fated 1999 presidential run, he was saying all kinds of thing about public healthcare and shit that he doesn't talk about now.. just looking for whatever got some claps in the crowd

tbf he's still promising the greatest healthcare we've ever seen, no one can believe it. You just have to elect one more time to get it, we're so close.

he's been blabbing about that for decades now.. from 1999

On the issues, Trump labeled himself "very conservative," but described his views on healthcare as "quite liberal" and "getting much more liberal", explaining "I believe in universal health care. I believe in whatever it takes to make people well and better. ... It's an entitlement to this country if we're going to have a great country."

tbf he's still promising the greatest healthcare we've ever seen,

Trump walks into the ward.

(points) "Euthanasia." (points) "Euthanasia." (points) "Definitely euthanasia."

Haha, listen to this... also from 1999:

As for the lack of a first lady, Trump said he could solve the issue "in 24 hours" by marrying his 29-year-old girlfriend, model Melania Knauss. In a later interview, Knauss said she would marry Trump under such notice. In the role, she said, "I would be very traditional. Like Betty Ford or Jackie Kennedy. I would support him."

"Like Betty Ford, I will drink nail polish to keep sane."

Steamcrunk

She certainly was no Eleanor Roosevelt

I've seen this image a few times, and every time I do it looks like Vance has a little arm holding up his own sign:
https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/_p4a1mDWO3GI-sD_oJpCf1Z-4EU=/0x0:4395x2472/1952x1098/media/img/mt/2024/09/GettyImages_2174537839/original.jpg

Btw, driving up to Wisconsin on Sunday I think I saw my first ever "Trump/Vance" sign.

Yeah the dearth of Trump/Vance signs (as opposed to ones just saying “Trump”) is quite noticeable.

Heh, I see plenty of both in my hood!

yeah i've seen em in tennessee and in georgia

some technical difficulties over at Rep. Nancy Mace's office pic.twitter.com/9LT7FvMT7x

— bryan metzger (@metzgov) September 30, 2024

lmao they are not sending their best, are they

She's anti-circumcision? Very progressive

Olivia Nuzzi taking Ryan Lizza to court

Nuzzi wrote in a court filing that in mid-August, Lizza “explicitly threatened to make public personal information about me to destroy my life, career, and reputation—a threat he has since carried out.”

...

Lizza hasn’t responded to the allegations in court, but he did provide a statement to CNN after being informed about the court action.

“I am saddened that my ex-fiancée would resort to making a series of false accusations against me as a way to divert attention from her own personal and professional failings. I emphatically deny these allegations and I will defend myself against them vigorously and successfully,” Lizza said.

What does baby gronk have to say

Oooof

(This can be applied to more than one thing)

Nuzzi in, uh, NOT rizzing up Lizza shocker, I guess

Nuzzi Nuzzling Fizzles Lizza Nuptials

Nuzzi Lizza Tizzy

this is a bit like suing the guy who snitched on you after you get arrested

Kizza me
Lizza, why not?

Can we get Snoop to read the court transcripts

Lol

Well, now Mexico has a woman president... hope she doesn't govern by emotions alone

“The women thing” pic.twitter.com/pIj89o03E4

— Kamala HQ (@KamalaHQ) October 1, 2024

If Trump was 30 years younger he'd refer to women as "females."

wonder how much of this debate is going to be questions to Walz about shit that he fumbled on a million years ago (his 'carried weapons of war' and how many china trips he claimed to make). They obviously don't even compare to the onslaught of lies that come from Trump and Vance but they're unforced errors on his part that I hope he knocks down quickly.

this speech Trump is delivering right now in Milwaukee is the lowest energy speech I have ever heard from him. Here's a more than 2 minute clip where he gets 0 response from the crowd other than a stray cough here and there pic.twitter.com/upkVgTsj7R

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) October 1, 2024

If he dropped dead this month Harris should make it a national holiday.

60 Minutes was scheduled to air interviews with both candidates this coming Monday, but Trump has backed out.

A Programming Note: 60 Minutes is scheduled to air a primetime election special on a Monday edition of the broadcast on October 7 at 8 PM. For over half a century, 60 Minutes has invited the Democratic and Republican tickets to appear on our broadcast as Americans head to the…

— 60 Minutes (@60Minutes) October 1, 2024

"I brought a child up to the dais..."

Sounds... weird.

🐦[this speech Trump is delivering right now in Milwaukee is the lowest energy speech I have ever heard from him. Here’s a more than 2 minute clip where he gets 0 response from the crowd other than a stray cough here and there pic.twitter.com/upkVgTsj7R🕸
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) October 1, 2024🕸]🐦

that speech... it's very much "Okay, Grandpa... why don't you go sit down in the TV room and I'll bring you a fresh diet coke, how does that sound?"

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:o4pdps2jkn7uhrdgadni7djk/bafkreig7njcvwlyqvuimavhuzvujdigb6guysx7xmd37tyhnhsmaigoxl4@jpeg

can you imagine the feeding frenzy if Biden started giving answers like this

https://theshef.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/sleeping_cadets.jpg

All the clips that guy keeps posting show Trump more tired and confused than I think I've ever seen him. Mixing up names and places and events. He probably needs a nap.

he said Kim Jong-Un was trying to kill him

obviously Trump's been sundowning for a while but I think getting hit by a bullet (maybe) really did do a number on him

Lol, I just saw somebody suggest that the first question tonight should be "why isn't Mike pence on stage tonight?"

Walz should definitely hit home all of Vance's anti-Trump shit from before he joined the cult

These fucking things are too late. Let them start at 7 or 8 when no one's watching.

Too late on the East Coast, too early on the West Coast.

Trump is ~exactly~ the same as ever as far as I can see

I don't think I want to watch the debate, I'll look at the clips tomorrow

I'm going to karaoke for a couple hours.

I'll check into this thread.

watching the debate would include looking at Vance for more than 30 seconds, I'm opting out as well

Trump is ~exactly~ the same as ever as far as I can see

So...here's an ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HKKc2xx-Ag

These guys are boring

Vance brought up his junkie mother in his first minute, in response to a question about Israel & Iran.

Two Guys & A Dirty Economy

"Our number one export cannot be topsoil from erosion in these enormous storms."

2nd junkie mom reference

Wish waltz didn’t say Eye Ran

"Pass the bill, she'll sign it!"

Walz bringing up Springfield...

Walz seemed shaky at first but he’s doing well now

Scarce Homes!

Walz invoking Scripture!

Vance protesting live fact-checking!

"we have so much we want to get to" for November thread title

Vance getting stepped on by two women is my new kink.

American politics: we have such sights to show you

Moderators didn’t want to miss out on getting bitched about by the GOP

I like Margret Brennans eye makeup

this is pretty boring. i’d say vance is winning but walz is keeping it close enough.

Don't listen to experts

Walz: "I'm a knucklehead at times."

I have no video coverage, but politico seem to be saying that vances ninja debate skills were slicing walz dicing walz. So I just came to thread and will get my news here instead seems legit.

Vance is doing a lot better than Walz. The problem is that the things he is saying better are wholly repugnant and awful.

Vance is over performing expectations but this is a draw

I just read this whenever my blood pressure ticks up a point tonight

https://abcnews.go.com/538/vp-debates-arent-important/story?id=114359816

vance is gonna get a bump from this, but idk how much it’ll help the top of the ticket

damn that vance abortion quote the moderator just read to his face was fucking medieval

I dont think him doing well in a debate will help his likability stats. Will tune in now though

He is widely loathed

This is pretty boring

I got home from bowling 30 minutes into it. What I've seen seems like a draw and inconsequential. And yes, boring.

Well no, it won’t help him be more likable because he is doing an excellent job of being wholly repellent and loathsome

its a weird debate. walz seems nervous but he's okay. i was hoping that walz would just go after trump and he has been. he's being too nice to vance though.

it feels like walz needed better writers. he's slamming trump and vance but they don't sound like slams and what he is saying isn't very memorable. kinda same old/same old.

only thing anyone will remember from this will be vance whining about fact-checking

OTM

Has he advised how to check of it’s my alternator or battery?

Waltz did well on this gun issue, way to go

Walz

Did Walz say he became friends with school shooters?

I heard that too!

Yeah, tongue slip

He wants to understand both sides

Good shots on both sides.

JD sure hates Kamala...

So let's build on federal lands?

"You're passionate about the housing crisis, I can tell."

strong answer by walz on healthcare

I wish they would ask Vance if he understands the powers of the Vice Presidency. Seems like he thinks he’ll be able to do anything.

"we have so much we want to get to" for November thread title

― go polish your nose ring (sleeve)

Not so good if Trump wins.

Walz is doing better after the break, probably pulled even.

“i say this as a personal matter because i’m married to a beautiful woman” - vance

Here’s the problem : Buttigieg played Vance in Walz’s prep. Tonight Vance is playing Pete Buttigieg in this debate . He is perfectly reasonable, collegial , even empathetic.

Walz is allowing this far-right loon to project calm normality. Walz hasn’t figured out how to bring out the ‘weird’ in Vance. Though I’m not sure how he would , anyways.

"January 6th was not Facebook ads"

yeah i agree. vance is lying like crazy but instead of calling him on it walz is focusing on the feel good stuff they “agree” on. i get why he’s doing it but its giving a stalemate at best

xp collardio

Love Walz take on democracy.

vance making it about “muh facebook censorship” was so pathetic

Vance cannot say Trump lost the 2020 election

JD is blaming Harris and illegal immigrants for everything---Harris let the illegal immigrants drive up housing prices, also lying about stuff Trump has done and proposed---brushing it off and denying it, I should say, since he's being polite, nicer than at rallies and in interviews---so yeah, he's set the bar very low, hopping over it real nice in his manner---also a lot of "non-answers," replies talking around the question---but in a smooth way, so it may get called a draw,as a more-or-less consensus/centrist take.

I think Walz got the winning soundbite

Trying to make "...because of Kamala Harris's policies" a thing.

pretty disappointing overall imo

Draw, Vance won the first half but Walz recovered and did well in the second half.

hey yall, didnt watch the debate, i just wanna say i hate this bumass country and i hate this election with all mah heart

hope thats chill w everyone

Vance won, by seeming calm and reasonable instead of the nutcase he actually is. But this debate is not going to matter.

W did jab in first half sometimes, esp. about Trump nixing the bipartisan immigration deal. Is Vance gonna be this nice on the trail now? PBS dude saying Vance's people say no.

Walz largely failed to spell out all the crazy things Trump and Vance have said, and he failed to defend the current state of the economy and the border. Walz just tried to be a nice guy

Yeah I don’t know who Vance expected to win over with his numerous “I actually somewhat agree with the governor” because no you fucking don’t.

the nutcase stuff is a lot of the country's first impression of him. but its not the same kind of ranting and raving nutcase that Trump is, he comes off way more calculated and conniving. Trump's greatest (maybe only?) political gift is that he comes off like a WWE heel, you know he doesn't literally mean what he says but you get the gist of it. Vance comes off like the exact opposite of that.

Vance, with a few exceptions, was just sanewashing himself and Trump

Yes, TW should have said more about economy and border (undocumented crossings down 30% in last few months), but crazy things said are in news all the time. He was maybe disconcerted by JD mirroring his nice guy thing for a change (although, seems like Pete B. would have done some of that in debate rehearsals).

Although Vance's refusal to acknowledge Trump lost the 2020 election did damage his slick presentation, but that was way at the end of the debate

I was a little disappointed with Walz’s delivery but I don’t think the structure of this debate served the viewer particularly well. The main take-away from this debate was Vance refusing to say Biden won the 2020 election.

With Trump, despite his familiar approach, I'm less and less sure of how much he means what he says, beyond the moment, anyway, but "sanewashing," yeah!!

And Walz kept pressing him about the state's rights approach to reproductive rights, naming women who had suffered and sometimes died, having to travel far for care---also naming Texas has having higher infant mortality rates than a lot of countries---vs. Minnesota protection, correcting Vance's lies about that too.

Walz was prob at his strongest on that.

so far the clip that seems to be getting the most play is Vance saying "you guys said you weren't gonna fact check" which given Vance's debate club vibe is a tremendously idiotic thing to say

Re abortion and fertility issues Vance actually said he felt bad about those people who died, and Walz needed to demand a minute to spell out better that those women died because of who Trump put on the Supreme Court and Vance feeling bad now doesn't matter . But for some reason the Harris campaign strategy for Walz was just to disagree politely

Walz largely failed to spell out all the crazy things Trump and Vance have said, and he failed to defend the current state of the economy and the border. Walz just tried to be a nice guy

The correct choice, in a vibes-based election that will be decided by morons. I didn't watch, but from what I'm reading, Vance's two big moments were "You said you weren't going to fact-check!" and refusing to say Trump lost in 2020.

I really can't watch these anymore, I guess. Tuned in 5 minutes before it started, felt my entire body swell with anxiety, watched Walz stumble in the opening question, and then turned it off.

Hopefully there's already Tiktoks and reels of Vance saying You said you weren't going to fact-check!" and refusing to say Trump lost in 2020

that opening question was bullshit, not only opening with a giant political landmine but phrasing it in such a way that doesn't even leave "let's try to negotiate peace" as an option. give them a couple softballs so they get comfortable first!

I think that the vice presidential debate really doesn't matter at all in the end, most people are not watching it and nobody bases their opinion on it

I think you're right. Part of what gets me agitated is knowing that the media puts a big spotlight on debates as one of the central frames through which to assess the presidential race. It's an opportunity for narratives to take hold that are distorted and disconnected from the actual stakes of the election.

I think I used to be like, well, Democrats are right about stuff, so they just need to make their case in a debate, and people will be persuaded. Now I don't trust that any of that will actually happen because of media incentives and information warfare, so events like this just feel super-fraught to me.

My personal take is that what most politically-minded people want from a VP debate is to see 'their guy' vanquish 'the other guy' so they can feel good about it. Whereas, politically detached people mainly want to be reassured that both VPs seem like they could step into the office if necessary, but they have no clear criteria for figuring that out except their poorly informed sense of what a president does.

the main takeaway of this for me is it really demonstrates that Vance was probably one of the worst possible choices for Trump's running mate, he's kind of the anti-Trump in a lot of ways. I don't think it works because Trump singlehandedly set the tone of this election as being cutthroat and insane. he's calling Kamala mentally handicapped, accusing her of murder, and is promising nuclear hellfire should she win.

in contrast Vance is trying to make the campaign seem calm and collected and I think he made a point to be nice to Walz which doesn't jive at all with what Trump was doing during his debates, which obviously everyone who watched this also saw. Vance came off like the exact sort of swamp creature that Trump supporters hate. he's not gonna be a dealbreaker for most of them but I highly doubt the Trump freaks like him at all.

I think that the vice presidential debate really doesn't matter at all in the end, most people are not watching it and nobody bases their opinion on it

― Dan S, Tuesday, October 1, 2024 11:56 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

didn't watch it, but if it sounds like a boring draw it'll fizzle out quickly and hopefully get trump to be an idiot and debate again.

VP debates should be wargaming scenarios of how their candidate dies and the steps they’d take to secure their authority and rally ‘Murrica.

“Mr. Vance, President Trump shanks a drive on the 16th hole and has an aneurysm while screaming at his caddy. What are your first steps?”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7rUS-tMIbk

Following the VP debate, Tim Walz went from well liked to beloved. JD Vance went from loathed to still not well liked. pic.twitter.com/UacjSCx90Q

— Matt McDermott (@mattmfm) October 2, 2024

Yeah, I got home from karaoke and started grading papers so I didn't watch the debate, but flipping through the morning teevee shows I was surprised to learn Walz's approval rating went up?

I think you're right. Part of what gets me agitated is knowing that the media puts a big spotlight on debates as one of the central frames through which to assess the presidential race. It's an opportunity for narratives to take hold that are distorted and disconnected from the actual stakes of the election.

I think I used to be like, well, Democrats are right about stuff, so they just need to make their case in a debate, and people will be persuaded. Now I don't trust that any of that will actually happen because of media incentives and information warfare, so events like this just feel super-fraught to me.

― jaymc, Wednesday, October 2, 2024 5:13 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is so well said, and speaks to larger issues in our politics. (Although there's plenty of wiggle room in "Democrats are right about stuff"--> I think they are far more right about stuff than Republicans, but yeah this is well said.)

Like I don't think it's just republicans are a threat to our democracy, but it's the media and their framing of things that's really fucking us

I would have thought Walz could’ve done more pushback on Vance’s sanewashing attempts because the two or three times he managed to do that, he really landed.

Was this true?

Gotta admit JD's ability to code switch from a sociopathic ass who is ambivalent to human suffering on MAGA bro podcasts to a guy who credibly seems like he doesn't want other people to die on the debate stage is a useful political skill that he has deployed with effect

— Tim Miller (@Timodc) October 2, 2024

The use of “code switch” here is… I don’t know how I feel about it, but it is certainly something.

more like chode switch

Curious if Trump is going to yell at him for being too nice.

https://theonion.com/screaming-trump-takes-out-frustrations-on-person-he-ass-1851617123rev1723143413843/

on-person-he-ass

Nothing means anything but all the focus groups and polls I've seen mentioned this morning give Walz a strong edge in the debate. Because people react more to just a general sense of the person than any specific answers, probably, plus also punting on the 2020 election and Jan. 6 was bad for Vance.

Politico snap poll of debate:

Walz Wins Independents 58-42 Over Vancehttps://t.co/8tBsT6sNeu pic.twitter.com/WRCm64rK7S

— James Singer (@Jemsinger) October 2, 2024

But now, of course, we can stop pretending anyone cares about VP debates.

I can vote two weeks from today, looking forward to this phase of things being over before we descend into whatever fresh hell awaits.

If ever there were a person you would rather have a beer with, it's Walz.

Curious if Trump is going to yell at him for being too nice.

― Bedrich Smetana's Ma Wife (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, October 2, 2024 9:22 AM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

trump was ecstatic

I don’t think Walz needed to go into the debate to “beat” Vance. The ticket is going after a shrinking pool of undecided voters who likely prize things like being “reasonable” and “decent” and “able to work with the other side.”

The fact that this debate cemented his nice guy image is probably a benefit.

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:kyssxk455wyqgeahpgqe4vqu/bafkreicfl6r4trqduh4uhuz5ixxfuryv2yqoxwg4hdtv3a4isyu2jnqqs4@jpeg

i think walz is a good politician but after watching this debate i kinda hope he doesn't have presidential aspirations. he's good enough for vp but would be a serious swag deficit for prez imho

Those Reconsidering numbers are pretty high! Especially on the Harris side, but people are unpredictable

I don’t think Walz needed to go into the debate to “beat” Vance. The ticket is going after a shrinking pool of undecided voters who likely prize things like being “reasonable” and “decent” and “able to work with the other side.”

as a short term strategy this makes sense. but having the vp of the other party say "i agree with you" half a dozen times risks lending unearned legitimacy to the pivot to a pro-family pro-worker populist-branded party that vance is trying to pull off. i wish walz had said "i agree with what you're saying right now, but the republican party are the party of rich plutocrat snakes and in power will do nothing but tax cuts on the rich"

Al Gore pulled that shit with Bush.

My JD Vance report card from this evening's debate:

Style: D
Substance: F
Overall: A+

— New York Times Pitchbot (@DougJBalloon) October 2, 2024

X-post - yes to Flopson’s take

A good Washington Post piece about the Republican nominee's broken brain.

Signs reading SCHOOL CHOICE, EDUCATION FREEDOM NOW and LET PARENTS DECIDE decorated a small auditorium, and a panel of speakers preceding the former president focused on using public funds to let families choose between public and private, especially religious, schools. Trump read from a binder containing a prepared speech on the subject, and he switched abruptly between the text and a jumble of other topics.

“We can be nice and we can be politically incorrect, but the only thing they’re going to do there is cheat on elections, and we just can’t let this happen,” he said at one point. Without warning, he continued: “The city of Milwaukee is the home of first and oldest choice program.”
He spoke of “a million Rambos.” “Turnarounds” and “gotaways” and “dead-head spending.” He mixed up Iran with North Korea and strained to pronounce United Arab Emirates. He marveled at Hurricane Helene coming so late in the storm season, which typically runs through November. He falsely claimed government agencies can’t name the U.S. population, and he compared the conflict between Israel and Iran to “two kids fighting in the schoolyard.”

Trump, 78, often speaks in a digressive, extemporaneous style that thrills his fans at large-scale rallies. But Tuesday’s event, in front of almost entirely reporters, was especially scattered and hard to follow. Polls show voters’ concerns about Trump’s age and fitness have increased since President Joe Biden, 81, withdrew and was replaced as the Democratic nominee by Vice President Kamala Harris.

Trump spoke slowly and appeared tired. It was his second stop of the day, and he has picked up the pace of campaigning in recent weeks.

“I think I’m booked every single day for 33 days,” he said at the end of the news conference, incorrectly citing the number of days until the election, which is 35 days. “I’ve worked for 17 or 18 days when you say in a row, and I’m working even when I’m not working.”

...

Much of what Trump said here he has said before. He repeated false claims about a U.S. government app directing cartels where to drop off smuggled migrants; in fact the app lets migrants request appointments for legal processing. He falsely accused the Biden administration of admitting 13,000 convicted murderers — a number that in fact reflects several decades of migration and includes people in federal or state custody.

He also repeatedly praised predominantly White countries such as Denmark, Norway and Sweden while emphatically warning against immigrants from Congo in Africa. And he again said migrants crossing the U.S. southern border were taking “Black and Hispanic jobs,” a characterization that many Americans found offensive and economists said was false.

...

Several times Trump mixed up his words or spoke in vague terms. He praised Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban as a “tough guy” when he appeared to mean “strongman.” He complained that an interviewer with “60 Minutes” “challenged me on the computer” — meaning the interviewer argued with him in 2020 about the provenance of Hunter Biden’s laptop. He referred to Afghan attacks on coalition forces, known in NATO as “green on blue,” as “blue on brown and brown on blue.”

Asked whether as president he should have retaliated more forcefully to Iran’s missile strikes on U.S. forces in Iraq in 2020, Trump responded as he did at the time, by denying the severity of the more than 100 injuries, including traumatic brain injury. “They had a headache,” he said.

Other comments were harder to parse.

“Kamala and the radical left Democratic Party want to keep Black and Hispanic children trapped in family government,” he said.

“Every single thing that we’re doing is based on structure and common sense. I was looking at the various states, and I think 35 states could be the equivalent of Norway and Denmark.”

Likely voters were also split 50/50 in a Politico/Focaldata snap poll. However, the Politico poll showed Walz with a sixteen point lead among independent voters: 58 percent said the Minnesota governor won the debate versus 42 percent who sided with Vance.

flopson otm. "i agree with you, jd" -- like what the fuck are you talking about dude. fuck this piece of shit loser scab forever, is what i think you meant to say. seriously disappointing and also totally surreal in the context of vance denying the election and suddenly we're going back to "let's find a way to compromise with our republican colleagues"? hell no

in terms of incentives both candidates were aligned--just seem normal, don't rock the boat, don't need to win super hard just don't lose in a big newsworthy way. walz didn't try to bait vance by calling him weird, which i think was smart tbh. but he should've held the ideological line more firmly

I agree we need more Dem politicians who are willing to call Rs psycho freaks to their faces and scoff at the idea of working with those trying to burn down the country but Walz isn’t that guy

the second headline on the little clearchannel tv in my office building elevator this morning: "Vance struggles on Jan 6 in VP debate". (the top headline is today's weather.)

what does Reconsidering mean in that poll? for the 8% under Kamala, that 8% were considering voting for her and now are considering not voting forh er? the opposite? both?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax0KIhHFnaE

xpost Seems like it was people who said they were voting for Harris before the debate but are now reconsidering their vote due to JD's hypnotizing eyes

lol chode switch

JD's hypnotizing eyes

he's a dick and he's drowning slowly

Hypnochoad

Cryptochoad

xp, but I'm posting anyway
Hypnochode

Fwiw, as a San Francisco resident I thought Harris would have a serious swag deficit. Fortunately it looks managable!

Swag Deficit were going drop their debut just as Def Jux closed down.

I didn’t watch the debate and the only news that has penetrated my mostly political free online and work life existence is JD Vance’s exchange with the moderator about fact checking so it feels like this is a clear win for the Harris campaign.

for a Veep debate to be effective you have to land a "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" that gets talked about decades later to really make waves

(as far as moving the needle in terms of polls/results etc)

And it didn’t help the Dukakis/Bentsen ticket anyway

exactly. nobody cares about Veeps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYNGCNtDb-w

If these debates don't matter, why didn't Walz just say "Yes, I would force catholic hospitals to provide abortions. THEY'RE FUCKING HOSPITALS!" Would have felt so good.

Throughout his time as vice president, Quayle was characterized by some media outlets and journalists as being unprepared for the position. Given his position, his comments were heavily scrutinized for factual and grammatical errors. Contributing to this perception of Quayle was his tendency to make public statements that were either impossible ("I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future"[2]), self-contradictory ("I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy, but that could change"[34]), self-contradictory and confused ("The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. ... No, not our nation's, but in World War II. I mean, we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century, but in this century's history"[3]), or just confused (such as the comments he made in a May 1989 address to the United Negro College Fund (UNCF). Commenting on the UNCF's slogan—which is "a mind is a terrible thing to waste"—Quayle said, "You take the UNCF model that what a waste it is to lose one's mind or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is").

Kind of reminds me of how the press treated a more recent VP.

Wow. WOW.

I don’t know if I’d trust that man to deliver a pizza!

If these debates don't matter, why didn't Walz just say "Yes, I would force catholic hospitals to provide abortions. THEY'RE FUCKING HOSPITALS!" Would have felt so good.

― henry s, Wednesday, October 2, 2024 12:37 PM bookmarkflaglink

I think the general gist is "they don't move the needle, but we should avoid doing things that might hurt us nonetheless".

i wish he'd have said "nope, we are cancelling CAtholic HOspitals"

Attack ad:

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/10/jd-vance-and-the-future-of-the-gop

I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax0KIhHFnaE

Walz coulda just kept going and going: "Lemme get this straight: somebody's fucking CONSCIENCE is worth more than somebody's fucking LIFE??!!" Would have been an epic rant. It's sure as fuck what I was thinking.

yr hardcore xtians would say "yes, obviously! your immortal soul, hello?!"

There was a lost moment when Vance said something to the effect of "The American people voted in Harris" and Walz should've jumped on that like a dog on turkey, "So you ADMIT THAT SHE WON!" etc., but he let it slide

he's a dick and he's drowning slowly

applauds

don't want to appear to kink shame in any way shape or form but JD's eyeliner squicks me out and I just don't understand why he do that or what he hopes to achieve

trying to impress Jodie Foster

https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/rs-7276-20121007-greenday-env-thumb-624x420-1349717589.jpg?w=624&h=420&crop=1

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/American_Football_EM_2014_-_FIN-SWE_-360_%281%29.JPG/800px-American_Football_EM_2014_-_FIN-SWE_-360_%281%29.JPG

https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Mad-Max-2-Road-Warrior-Wez.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/Eyes_of_the_overworld_first.jpg

https://i0.wp.com/thenerddaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/The-Cabinet-of-Dr-Caligari.jpg?w=1000&ssl=1

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgAWsF-2v9q8XakwZam5kjuED2tHl9y_Vduwud0VZ6xhStLYuP

As a devout Lutheran, Walz should have called the pope the Antichrist, but I’m afraid Vance would have agreed with him.

🖼

he played the Termite of Temptation

Brian Eno is in every Mad Max movie, but in the background, and only if you *want* to see him.

Eno does "Ambient acting"

He's only in those movies sometimes, he takes breaks now and then

Marquette poll has Harris holding steady with a 4-point lead in Wisconsin.

Rick Perlstein on ...undecided... voters is pretty good.

"Do you support a preemptive strike by Israel on Iran?"
Walz: That question is fundamentally fundamental.
Vance: I'm glad you asked. You see, my mom smoked crack-#VPDebate2024

— January's Baby (@Jan21Baby) October 2, 2024

Looks like the October surprise dropped

and it's about Dougie

?

NY Post story that he slapped his ex-girlfriend at a Cannes event.

Daily Mail were the ones who took the report

It's so far only running in right wing outlets, shocker

lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/1ftve1f/massive_crowd_at_the_rally_today/

Where is that? Not Madison, right?

My kid covered the Harris rally there last week for the college paper. Also got to interview the mayor and shake Tony Evers' hand. *The* Tony Evers!

Waunakee

But, I mean, suburban Madison. Definitely Democratic territory.

Is that the Tinker-to-Evers-to-Chance guy?

I've lived in Wisconsin most of my life and I have no idea where some of these towns he's visiting are

btw I have also shook Tony Evers' hand, all I can say is Hank Hill would not be impressed

It's kind of insane how frequently both candidates are showing up in Wisconsin doing events. Can there really be that much added value at this point? I think basically everybody is massively overindexing on Clinton not doing a Wisconsin rally in 2016 as if that was the main thing that decided the election.

what else are they gonna do?

Depending on where in WI they go, local broadcast markets also serve western MI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spiwlde4kys

don't want to appear to kink shame in any way shape or form but JD's eyeliner squicks me out and I just don't understand why he do that or what he hopes to achieve

"Little Mascara" vs Tim

JD w/o the eyeliner would be revealed to have little, recessed, pigish eyes.

people clown on Trump for wearing a shitload of bronzer but he looks really bad and strange without it

people clown on Trump for wearing a shitload of bronzer but he looks really bad and strange without it

The pig races at the WI state fair had bigger crowds than that Trump rally reddit pic

Trump has rallys all the time, pig races only happen once a year.

don't panic. the fix is in for mr. trump and jd vance, esq.!

Wanna read Jack Smith's 165-page (redacted) motion re presidential immunity? Here it is.

only nerds read legal filings! MAGA!!

What do you think they redacted? Epstein's client list?

WSJ has a big expose today claiming that a huge chunk of the GOP's dark money as of late has come from Elon Musk

Probably why Vance tried that dumb pivot to talking about social media censorship

with apologies to mookie for posting a poll, but this might actually be something

New NEBRASKA SENATE poll:

🔴 Sen. Deb Fischer* — 42 percent
🟡 Dan Osborn — 47 percent

Undecided — 10 percent

Voter registration breakdown — GOP (49%); Democratic (26%), Independent (25%) https://t.co/htVcKqOm6q

— Anthony Adragna (@AnthonyAdragna) October 2, 2024

xps - The WSJ must have it in for Musk because they usually respect and admire the kind of wealth that can finance a big dark money operation.

Wanna read Jack Smith's 165-page (redacted) motion re presidential immunity? Here it is.

I am reading this, I am up to page 43 and I am losing my shit with the flashbacks to this time period. My blood pressure is rising and I need to stop for my own well being.

looks like internet sleuths have figured out who all the names are just by looking at Trump's tweets on that day

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/10/01/trump-wisconsin-swerves-subjects/

how to report on his campaign events

A wild ride, there!

Yeah I've increasingly noticed "gotaways" as a thing with the right wingers screaming about migrants. Afaict they seem to be using the term to describe the "millions" of migrants who avoid border patrol and therefore don't get counted in immigration statistics which is why Kamala must be "lying about fewer migrants". But yet somehow they also know exactly how many gotaways "they" aren't counting and therefore know the "real" number of migrants?

Gift link for the swervy story

https://wapo.st/3zwddvv

This goes hard imo

https://www.tiktok.com/@kamalahq/photo/7421261242758597918

Man, Joe could have doddered out of the White House with everyone championing him as the best Democratic President since FDR. Burned his legacy (and actively supports genocide) for a guy he acknowledges wanted his opponent to win.

And so the plan is to just… what? Let him get away with it? Lay down and let them walk all over you? https://t.co/6XhWT4qQGb pic.twitter.com/en9Trl6YyJ

— Brian Beutler (@brianbeutler) October 3, 2024

Wisconsin mayor gets in a wee bit of trouble for, uh, removing a public ballot drop box and locking it up in his office.

This Republican Mayor in Wisconsin decided to Trump up the local ballot drop box.

Now he says, "15 minutes of fame isn't all it's cracked up to be."

He's probably going to jail.

pic.twitter.com/88QmlKBMzb

— Grant Stern  (@grantstern) October 3, 2024

raise the minimum 15-minutes of fame wage

15 minutes should be a minimum 2 years of coasting afterward

Waunakee

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, October 2, 2024 1:01 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

But, I mean, suburban Madison. Definitely Democratic territory.

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, October 2, 2024 1:01 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah this was just outside of Madison, like I go through there frequently and it's just a few minutes away from my house. But once you go outside of the city it gets Trumpy (or at least very mixed) pretty much instantly.

I was in NW Dane county and also neighboring Sauk county recently and "very mixed" is a good descriptor. In Kenosha city things are quite blue, sign-wise. Out in the county there's way more brainrot.

Like I went for a bike ride along a rails-to-trail path in Sauk and during one of the town portions saw FUCK YOUR FEELINGS flags, Punisher skulls and such in the same block as lgbtq flags and calls for cease fire in Gaza.

There was a little terrier or something yapping at me and I alllmost said "fuck your feelings, dog" but held my tongue lest its human was packing.

Domestic terrierism

They're arming the dogs!

Make America Grrrr Again

is there any evidence that anyone likes Liz Cheney?

Her dad does, maybe?

At this point I can muster a small amount of like for any Repub who dares to speak against Trump. She’s still crap on all other fronts though.

her House record is appalling, but I was more wondering what the supposed advantage is for Harris to campaign alongside this racist ghoul

So show ex-Trumpers or undecideds (eye roll) that it’s okay to vote for Harris rather than stay home or write in some dipshit? I dunno, I’m not in favor of this new-found collegiality either.

I don't like Liz Cheney. Happily, I don't have to. She's self-motivated. Liz hates Trump and she's an effective hater. She'll do anything she can to destroy him. It's OK with me to use her as a club to beat Trump over the head with.

I think worrying or complaining about Liz Cheney is pointless, tbh. I’m saving my anger for when Harris gives her a cabinet position (IOW, wgaf if she’s out there stumping against Trump, at least she’s doing that and not actively passing bills harmful to my existence. I’ll worry about her when she’s back in a position of political power)

Granted if this was David Duke I’d be saying something different and the line between Duke and Cheney is not as thick as it should be, but that’s human inconsistency for you

Liz has no viable path back into political power (unless Harris appoints her an ambassador or something similar). She's doing this for the satisfaction of publicly dragging Trump as hard as she can.

Yeah, I think an ambassadorship or something would be fine, that wouldn't bother me at all

I guess what I'm dubious about is: is she an effective club? I'm not confused about the logic; I'm questioning the conclusions, if that makes sense.

I do have more abstract concerns about platforming a despicable warmongering racist, but DJP has a point about the timing. My concern, more or less, is this generates headlines about Harris being cozy with one (1) Republican but doesn't damage Trump one bit. I'm unconvinced the Cheney brand has any pull, so the Harris campaign polishing it a little seems dumb to me

I think the strategy probably is just reminding people how many deep red Republicans actually hate Trump, but I think the problem is if you hate Trump, they consider you bluer than blue no matter how red you are.

There are two kinds of people who like Liz Cheney:

1. Traditional Chamber of Commerce-type Republicans who still identify as Republicans but really don't like Trump/MAGA and probably voted for Biden in 2020. (My mom's husband is one of these types, though I don't know his views on Cheney specifically.)

2. MSNBC-watching middle-aged and older liberals whose opposition to Trump is rooted in style as much as (if not more than) ideology, which makes them love anyone who's willing it stick it to the Orange Menace -- especially people about whom they can say "Even *she* hates him!!"

3. Neo-Cons and people who think of China as 'the enemy'

If you look at the absolute incoherency of the people who are still “undecided” it makes some amount of sense. It’s off-putting to people who hate the Cheneys and the people who would be most attracted by it are already on board (fervent resistance “enemy of my enemy” types ie half the people I know on Facebook who follow politics) but I think the campaign is gunning for the pudding-brained “I can’t figure out what each candidate stands for despite them both shrieking their stances into microphones 24/7” as well by showing their bipartisanship.

Liz probably retains some cachet with old-school Republicans over the age of 60 who were just fine with the Bush-Cheney administration, but feel uncomfortable with Trump, especially older Republican women who vaguely fret about the demise of Roe v Wade.

xpost Yes, which is why even though we found the VP debate unsatisfying I think the pudding-brained folks saw Walz call himself a knucklehead and thought "I like this fellow."

The main reason that wing of the GOP dislikes Trump is over NATO and Ukraine.

she's an effective hater

citation needed

Aside from the moral failing inherent to aligning oneself with the monsters like Cheney and the ‘hundreds of Bush staffers’ types is that there appears to be no evidence it has any electoral impact. Hillary getting the entire military and foreign policy arm of Republicanism on her side sure made the difference in 2020.

Democrats cozy up to Cheneys not out of political expedience but because they’re sick freaks who like it.

cool

There's a pack of wild dogs actively eating my family and then another one of the dogs that's just over there using the bathroom on my belongings, and I'm pretty unthrilled about everything that's transpiring but yeah if pressed I guess I'd say that I hate that one dog a little less than the others

sick freaks who like it

no kink-shaming plz

Political parties love highlighting turncoats from the opposing party, whether its Tulsi or RFK or Cheeny or Zell Miller or Colin Powell or Lieberman or all the racist Democrats who became Republicans.

Whoa, Melania! We never knew ya

Melania Trump doubled down in her first public response to news of her passionate support for abortion rights, a position starkly at odds with that of her husband, Donald Trump, and the Republican party he leads.

“Individual freedom is a fundamental principle that I safeguard,” the former first lady said in a video released on Thursday. “Without a doubt, there is no room for compromise when it comes to this essential right that all women possess from birth. Individual freedom. What does, ‘My body, my choice’ really mean?”

OK, good for her, but Melania is such a strange, politically and socially detached creature that it's hard to see what difference this makes to anyone or anything.

A support for abortion rights that was nowhere to be seen when Roe went down, but is now front and center because a book is out, and there is money to be made.

or it's some devious political calculation - "Honey, you be the pro-choice one, okay?" wouldn't surprise me at all

If the Cheneys are in to help beat Trump, so be it. That’s the result that matters.

There's a pack of wild dogs actively eating my family and then another one of the dogs that's just over there using the bathroom on my belongings

Liz Cheney's entirely political history indicates that she would eagerly eat your family but the slightly larger dog leading the pack isn't using proper table manners while doing so.

Nothing about this is about "liking" Liz Cheney. Donald Trump is the enemy. You attack the enemy with every weapon within reach. Most normal humans are never gonna hear about this event, just as most normal humans are never gonna hear about 99 percent of the attacks Harris and Walz level at Trump. But you keep blasting away and eventually everyone has heard something about how Donald Trump is a piece of shit who should not be president, and that moves enough votes that he loses. You guys are analyzing the spin angle on one pellet from a shotgun blast.

I highly doubt there's any strategy there, Trump backed himself into a corner with the abortion stuff, he knows it's a losing issue but every time he suggests he might be open to moderating his stance the Evangelicals go after him, obviously Trump himself doesn't give a shit either way, he's just saying whatever he thinks will get people to stop bothering him about it

I think the Melania thing is to provide some amount of cover to Trump on his most vulnerable issue. I'm sure there will be various interest groups circulating it through targeted social media etc., trying to reach those suburban wine moms — but independent of the Trump campaign to protect him from the pro-lifers.

f you look at the absolute incoherency of the people who are still “undecided” it makes some amount of sense. It’s off-putting to people who hate the Cheneys and the people who would be most attracted by it are already on board (fervent resistance “enemy of my enemy” types ie half the people I know on Facebook who follow politics) but I think the campaign is gunning for the pudding-brained “I can’t figure out what each candidate stands for despite them both shrieking their stances into microphones 24/7” as well by showing their bipartisanship.

― DJP, Thursday, October 3, 2024 2:02 PM (thirty-five minutes ago)

this is pretty compelling, thanks! I do think making this alliance is immoral (and more importantly maybe, a sign of things to come) and even giving her an ambassadorship would be grotesque, but I was genuinely curious about the tactical logic.

You guys are analyzing the spin angle on one pellet from a shotgun blast.

give me a break, this thread routinely spends hours discussing individual polls. You yourself constantly post stuff that no normal human will ever hear about

liz is out of office and a pariah to the majority of her party, so her ability to eat us is much impaired. thank goodness. her main power now is as a spoiler wannabe. it's fairly safe to let her do whatever she can in that role.

Trump is actively trying to whitewash his views on abortion because he knows it's killing him, he posted on truth social that he would veto a national abortion ban, which I absolutely do not believe for one second. So I think Melania's statement is just part of this whitewashing.

here's a campaign issue more salient to normal humans (gas prices, not ~foreign policy~): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/03/biden-says-us-discussing-possible-israeli-plans-to-attack-irans-oil-industry

The NY Times goes after Trump for not revealing his health records. (gift link)

Yes, there's bothsides bullshit in there. Still...

As a presidential candidate in 2015, Donald J. Trump declined to release his medical records, instead offering a four-paragraph letter from his personal doctor proclaiming that he would be “the healthiest person ever elected to the presidency.”

In 2020, when he was hospitalized with Covid and running for re-election, Mr. Trump’s doctors gave minimal information about his condition, which, it emerged later, was far more dire than their public descriptions let on.

In 2024, days before becoming the official Republican presidential nominee for the third time, he was grazed by a would-be assassin’s bullet, yet his campaign did not hold a briefing on his condition, release hospital records or make the emergency physicians who treated him available for interview.

Now, just over a month from an election that could make Mr. Trump, 78, the oldest person ever to serve as president (82 years, 7 months and 6 days when his term would end in January 2029), he is refusing to release even the most basic information about his health.

What does, ‘My body, my choice’ really mean?”

I really don't care, do u?

The NY Times goes after Trump for not revealing his health records. (gift link)

What does, ‘My body, my choice’ really mean?”

In what I'll take as a positive sign, I was walking a couple construction sites today and saw three different laborers wearing "Harris Walz" high-vis construction safety shirts.

Congrats to Melania for being there for the power, corruption and racism but not the abortion stuff.

here's an encouraging sign. wonder what specifically is driving this. could be so many things I guess

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/29/politics/kamala-harris-senior-voters-election-analysis/index.html

What does, ‘My body, my choice’ really mean?”

it means "for rich people only"

Made me laugh: CNN's Brianna Keilar pointing out that Trump is sensitive to the fact that his crowds have shrunk. That was the verb she chose, so I immediately thought of--yes--"shrinkage."

just heard some reporting about new voter registration trends, and it's leaning heavily towards young women, and young women of color in particular... all bodes well for Harris as far as enthusiasm

Whoa, Melania! We never knew ya

FLINO, former first lady in name only?

any focus on Trump's health is welcome. we still know nothing about his Saturday "night last minute check up" where he was rushed to Walter Reed, as you do.

That was the wildest, where he came out with the loose tie looking more like Rodney Dangerfield than ever?

Apologies if someone else has shared this

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/10/07/can-harris-stop-blue-collar-workers-from-defecting-to-donald-trump

Gah, remember when he made that "I'm OK!" video after catching covid that was clearly edited together from several takes to cut out clips of him coughing uncontrollably?! I can't believe this asshole is running for president again and/or not dead.

One thing re: Cheneys, if having them in the news was irrelevant, Trump wouldn't have to go out of his way to slam them as washed-up RINOs (which he has). If there wasn't anything to the strategy Trump could ignore it.

Trump never ignores any attack on him. It's like his #1 Rule of Life.

I don't recommend it but I watched a few minutes of this rally he's doing in a high school gym right now and it's kinda stunning how visibly bored everyone is. half the crowd is staring at their phones and two people right in front are trying not to fall asleep. these rallies can't be helping him.

Trump never ignores any attack on him. It's like his #1 Rule of Life.

As proved by the debate with Harris. Honestly, that's all she really has to do — keep talking shit about him with cameras rolling. He'll spend the entire last four weeks of the campaign in "nuh-UH!/I know you are but what am I?" mode.

this is good, more of this

A Colorado county clerk was sentenced to nine years in prison Thursday after spearheading a data breach scheme in the 2020 presidential election.

District Judge Matthew Barrett sparred with former Mesa County clerk Tina Peters during her sentencing for continuing to push discredited claims about rigged voting machines, and said she had not taken her job seriously.

He also said he believed she would do the same things she was found guilty of doing again.

“I am convinced you would do it all over again if you could. You’re as defiant as any defendant this court has ever seen,” Barrett said to her, according to The Associated Press. “You are no hero. You abused your position, and you’re a charlatan.”

she was a My Pillow Guy pal

She claims she needs a magnetic mattress to be able to sleep. Good luck finding one of those in the slam.

Who wants to make the first “in a diner” joke?

https://www.stereogum.com/2282935/springsteen-endorses-harris-calls-trump-the-most-dangerous-candidate-for-president-in-my-lifetime/news/

Oh noes!

#New Pennsylvania Presidential Poll:

🔴 Trump 59%
🔵 Harris 41%

Trump Univ. (B+) 1,188 LV 10/3

— Daniel Aguilar (@daanielaaguilar) October 3, 2024

Holding out for what Prager U's definitive take myself...

what

Can I be anti-carceral-state but also kinda pro-isolating-her-from-society? It's a conundrum.

(Her being Tina Peters I mean.)

Restorative justice was made for dipshits like her, but it only works if you’re genuinely contrite.

I love how the judge makes that point, like, "Yeah, that's what I'd send you to if I thought it would make a difference. But it won't, so off to prison!"

Speaking of pick-me Trumpers

The Oklahoma State Department of Education under Ryan Walters has put out a bid to buy 55k Bibles for public schools. The description of the purchase order is almost word for word a description of the Trump Bible. Millions in school $$ going to Trump https://t.co/jRytBEzLQB pic.twitter.com/Xa4x3pleQX

— Blake Allen (@Blake_Allen13) October 4, 2024

I of course know by now that every supposed "value" conservatives bring up, particularly in the arena of education, is always code for its opposite; but still, "must use King James translation for historical accuracy" is damned funny.

Longshoreman strike is over

Re who likes Liz Cheney:

The average Democrat is someone who loves AOC and Liz Cheney and despises Joe Manchin pic.twitter.com/y9k8nvLKC8

— Sean (@demsocsean) October 3, 2024

looking forward to that AOC/Liz Cheney presidential ticket

https://r60.cooltext.com/rendered/cooltext467605085509635.png

Tina Peters, the former clerk of Mesa County, Colo., was sentenced on Thursday to nine years in prison after being found guilty in August of tampering with voting machines under her control in a failed attempt to prove that they had been used to rig the 2020 election against former President Donald J. Trump.

At a hearing in Grand Junction, Colo., Judge Matthew D. Barrett scolded Ms. Peters sternly from the bench, telling her he had imposed the severe penalty because she had repeatedly advanced false claims about Mr. Trump’s defeat and in so doing become a celebrity among those who denied that he lost the race.

“But you are no hero, you abused your position and you are a charlatan,” Judge Barrett said, adding, “You cannot help but lie as easy as you breathe.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/10/04/trump-rally-departures-early/

In Las Vegas, some attendees grew frustrated with Trump’s tardiness and said they had trouble hearing him. A reporter standing by the door counted more than 200 people leaving in the first 20 minutes. One attendee said they still loved Trump but said the former president would have said “You’re fired” if anyone else had been as late as he was.

Anastasia Bennett, 22, quickly grew tired of the insults and was ready to leave. Bennett was undecided before attending the rally with her aunt, who supports Harris. But after hearing Trump speak, she said she planned to vote for Harris.

“It was the insults and just being an hour late,” she said.

The average Democrat is someone who loves AOC and Liz Cheney and despises Joe Manchin

I like all three, I'm an above-average Democrat

Why do you like Joe Manchin?

Donnie Does Saginaw:

Trump’s event was held in a lower-level auditorium at the university’s Ryder Center, which has an indoor track and bleacher seating. The Trump campaign only reserved about half the room.

University officials said it could seat a little over 4,000 people with Thursday’s setup. The seating area was mostly full when Trump began speaking, with some empty seats at the top of the bleachers and at the ends farthest away from him.

“Who ever fills big places like this at three o’clock in the afternoon?” Trump asked.

Though Trump said at a recent event in Walker, Michigan, that “nobody ever leaves" his rallies before they end, the crowd grew noticeably thinner as the 85-minute speech went on.

he got them thangs

Man I really hate that I don’t get xpost notifications anymore, it really helped me curb my worse impulses

““It was the insults and just being an hour late””

November thread title?

“the crowd grew noticeably thinner as the 85-minute speech went on.”

They should try locking them in or something

Why do you like Joe Manchin?

Held a Senate seat in an otherwise unwinnable state for Dems for a long time and confirmed lots of judges

Owns a Manchin and a yacht

that’s like saying you like that one weird terrible singer that was in Toto for a few days just because he was in Toto

You mean the guy the Toto fans yelled racist insults at?

The Biden-Harris recession is over and the Trump-Vance recovery has begun.

— New York Times Pitchbot (@DougJBalloon) October 4, 2024

lol this guy is a degenerate gambler, a bad pundit and high on his own supply but I like it when he does this

Have your lawyer draw up a quick contract and it's a deal. NATE DOT SILVER DOT MEDIA AT GMAIL DOT COM. No contract, no bet, because you've been nutty lately and are a payment risk.

— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) October 4, 2024

Needs context. What is he responding to?

Guy says Trump will win FL by 8+ points.

and posted "$100k" for his bet.

back upthread, still blows my mind that anybody still thinks the King James Bible is anywhere near the most authoritative, accurate version

They should have insisted on the Wycliffe translation. It's even older, so in that sense it is 'closer to the original' than the KJV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wycliffe's_Bible

Yeah but it’s out of stock till November

schools buying bibles is bad, really bad.. but requiring them to have the bill of rights, declaration of independence etc is SUPER shitty, John Adams is clawing in his casket

jesus spoke old-timey English, everyone knows that

xp the Bill of Rights inclusion is kind of hilarious actually, given that they only care about one of said rights and are actively opposed to several others.

ofc Jesus spoke english, but with a heavy Aramaic accent so people were always asking him to repeat things

lol

Which translation of the Bhagavad Gita should they be forced to buy, that's what I wanna know

The Praeger U version I assume

One month out, here is my vibes-based theory of the election:

Harris is gonna win, and it's not gonna be close. The election is gonna be decided by a) an army of women who are angrier about Dobbs than anybody you know has ever been angry about anything, and b) people who used to like Donald Trump but are now bored by him. Trump's crowd (not just the crowds at his rallies, but his share of the voting population overall) is shrinking. It's visible at his rallies, which are long and boring and about him, not them. Also, a lot of his 2016 and 2020 voters are dead now, and Harris has a lead among older voters in 2024, who recognize their own frailty and decrepitude and don't want that in a president. I think that, more than anything else, is why she's surged the way she has. People looked at Biden and thought, holy fuck, that guy's a walking corpse! And then, when he left and Harris was juxtaposed with Trump, people started looking at Trump and thinking, holy fuck, that guy's a walking corpse!

I could be totally wrong, of course. We could be about to descend/collapse into kleptocratic fascism. In which case I may be posting from Alberta by Christmas.

I kind of wish you were predicting a Trump win, given your track record

Calgary is pretty nice, kind of like a gigantic St Paul

schools buying bibles is bad, really bad.. but requiring them to have the bill of rights, declaration of independence etc is SUPER shitty

Those requirements are specific to the Trump bible.

And the school dress code shall include red hats and gold sneakers.

I wouldn't put Alberta on my list of places to escape fascism lmao

“Who ever fills big places like this at three o’clock in the afternoon?” Trump asked.

the black crowes

I like how unperson has just transferred his extreme confidence that Biden would beat Trump to an extreme confidence that Harris will beat Trump, even though the former was predicated on the idea that it could only be Biden.

Personally, I think Biden is going to beat Trump. Why? Because he did it once before; because, when he did it, he coated Trump with loser stink, and that doesn't go away; because Trump is now a multiple felon, and that is going to count for something electorally; because Trump has clearly gone out of his mind and there are hundreds of hours' worth of videos to prove it. But as confident as I am about that, I am just as confident that there are a statistically and electorally significant number of voters who are stupid enough not to vote for just anyone who gets put up against Trump. They will vote for the guy who beat him last time. They will vote for "the president." But they will not vote for a stranger. Because they're stupid.

― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Saturday, June 29, 2024 3:38 PM (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

Let's be clear: if Biden is not the nominee, whoever the nominee is will lose — to a psychopathic criminal — by a huge margin. Not because Biden is such an amazing candidate, but because a significant portion of American voters are dumb-as-shit herd animals, and replacing a candidate with less than a half a year to go before an election spooks the herd.

― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Friday, June 28, 2024 2:21 PM (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm glad unperson is feeling confident about the upcoming election. I find it's better to be mostly confident about things you have next to no control over and that haven't happened yet than be miserably gloomy about them.

with all due respect, the best way to go about things is to make predictions about the future with absolute certainty. that way, if you're right you absolutely kick ass, and if you're wrong you absolutely don't mention that again

st louis cardinals 2027 world series champs

100.00% guarantee

if not for the vagaries of the electoral college, I'm in agreement

But there could be 14 seniors in a Pennsylvania trailer park that decide this election, let's be honest

I know in two and a half hours I will mix a bitchin' martini.

let's put it in the books

alfred, why do later what you can do now?

I must have something to look forward to.

i'm thinking of outsourcing my martinis to 538 electors to be named at a later date. i hear they're very reliable.

xp why not look forward to the second martini?

still blows my mind that anybody still thinks the King James Bible is anywhere near the most authoritative, accurate version

It's the most poetic english version, at least from what I recall. which means nothing.

Go Gutenberg or go home imo

(I know nothing about bibles)

yeah zinging each other for past predictions and including screen shots feels like a waste of time maybe go outside we're all stressed over this shit

Can't go outside. They're controlling the weather.

xp why not look forward to the second martini?

― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Friday, October 4, 2024

I look forward to no hangovers!

Harris should run on no hangovers.

or at least no tax on hangovers

hangovers are taxing, yeah

I mean, why not?

I'm for taxing Bradley Cooper and Zach Galifinakis though

The Royal House of Hangover

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/10/04/biden-white-house-harris-port-strike/

“But the resolution of the strike also highlights Biden’s distinctive approach to labor unrest, one that has defied even his Democratic predecessors and sparked unease in some parts of the party. Even as White House officials claim vindication about their strategy, questions persist about whether Biden’s pro-union advocacy will be codified as the new Democratic approach — or represents a rare aberration in a long bipartisan tradition of siding more closely with management.”

LOL

I mean, I did literally cackle.

This pro-labor stuff is obviously a sign of dementia

Workers & Management Come to Historic Agreement, But Some Experts Aren't Convinced

yeah zinging each other for past predictions and including screen shots feels like a waste of time maybe go outside we're all stressed over this shit

― a (waterface), Friday, October 4, 2024 2:56 PM (forty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Counterpoint: there should be more zinging and more receipts.

nah, we gotta save trees

My one year at a Christian school we had to have a plainspoken modern English version (new standard?), it sucked.

Someone should hire the woman who recently translated Beowulf to redo the Bible. "And Jesus said, 'Peter, you're a bitch — I already know your ass is gonna rat me to the Romans by morning.' And Peter said, 'Dude, I would never!'"

This is a good social media clip. I really hope this guy is Montana's next governor.

Students at MSU are making it loud and clear—they’re done with Gianforte and what he stands for. They know how important this election is, and that’s why they’re rolling with us. From protecting public lands to standing up for women’s rights, we’re fighting for their future.
This… pic.twitter.com/DP8TwOJ8jq

— Ryan Busse (@ryandbusse) October 4, 2024

xxp I have one of those called the "Good News Bible" in 'today's modern english'

I actually liked it because it had some simple ink illustrations, something to look at during boring Presbyterian sermons

They tried this back in 1993 with a translation for streetwise youths:

Later, when God decides to unleash floods over the Earth, here’s how he breaks it to Noah:

“I’m fed up, Noah, with what’s happenin’ ‘round here. These folks ain’t what’s happenin’ anymore, so I’m gonna do what I gotta do, and end things once and for all. Man, I’m gonna blow the brothers clear outta the water.”

Y’heardme?

was not expecting the musical sting at the end of the ryan busse clip lol

GET THE FUCK UP

My dad used to have “God Is For Real, Man” by Carl F. Burke and I loved reading it as a kid. Ghetto TLDRs of all the big stories in the bible with very charming 60s language like “winos” and “my old lady”

https://www.deuceofclubs.com/books/101godisforreal.htm

Is there a shorthand term for things like that statute, which stipulate procurement terms so specifically that they're really just a handout to one specific supplier? It's such a widespread and well-known practice, but for some reason no term for it is coming to mind.

they appear to be giving up Nevada

Guys, I am sure this means nothing.

Everything is fine.

via @AdImpact_Pol pic.twitter.com/K79XBkaICB

— Jon Ralston (@RalstonReports) October 4, 2024

that's just referring to the Senate race, right? Rosen has had a healthy lead in polls, so not too surprising that Repubs are giving up there

I think that includes Trump

which stipulate procurement terms so specifically that they're really just a handout to one specific supplier?

Kickbacks? Pork?

It's just for the Senate race. But if they're convinced they're gonna lose the Senate, the odds that Trump is gonna win Nevada have gotta be pretty low, too.

Apparently MTG posted this on her official FB page earlier today:

Yes they can control the weather.

It’s ridiculous for anyone to lie and say it can’t be done.

Well, yeah

who specifically ordered the hurricane? Assuming Pelosi until I hear different

"they"

The NRSC is just the Senate, but these things reinforce each other -- dollars spent getting out the vote for a GOP Senate candidate are getting out voters who are likely to vote Republican up and down the ticket, so this hurts Trump's effort unless Trump's campaign substitutes an equal amount.

That said, don't get *too* excited -- Rosen has been way ahead and it's not like the NRSC is gonna spend that money on sushi and blow, they may be pulling out of Nevada because something's making them think Wisconsin or Ohio is winnable and they want to put the money there.

Only a little sushi and blow

another ILX dinner item on Saturday night

Just be careful if you order blowfish sushi, OK.

Harris has recorded an appearance on the podcast Call Her Daddy, which I have never heard of but which is apparently much more popular than the New York Times (seriously; it's been Spotify's second most popular show for two years running, right behind Joe Rogan). It'll air next week.

That's genuinely surprising to me. I found that podcast unlistenable (but I am very much not the target demo)

I mean I guess I shouldn't be surprised, any more than I would be by Trump doing Joe Rogan. But I generally think of "podcasts" and "the president of the U.S.A." as things existing on opposite sides of a chasm, when I guess they are swimming in the mainstream

xxp lol the NYT publisher & owners must be super pissed right now, fuck 'em

Obama did Maron!

Obama did a little sushi, a little blow.

https://r60.cooltext.com/rendered/cooltext467605085509635.png

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, October 4, 2024 11:15 PM (yesterday)

so true bestie

_🖼

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, October 4, 2024 11:15 PM (yesterday)_


so true bestie

Call Her Daddy is a barstool thing, right? Harris coming for the zynternet.

She left Barstool in 2021

Wikipedia says Barstool still handles the show's marketing, it's at least adjacent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/10/05/harris-trump-campaign-spending/
free link: https://wapo.st/3XQJDZD

With a month to go, Donald Trump and Kamala Harris remain nearly tied in battleground polls.

...

Harris is running a campaign about three times the size of Trump’s operation, according to recent spending reports. She has placed $263 million in ads between the end of the Democratic convention and Oct. 4, nearly 2½ times as much as the $109 million spent by Trump, according to AdImpact.

She boasts more staff, more volunteers, a larger surrogate operation, more digital advertising, a more sophisticated smartphone-based organizing program and extra money for extraneous bells and whistles typically reserved for corporate product launches and professional sports championships. A Harris drone light show recently flew over Philadelphia. Her rally attendees often get light-up pop-concert bracelets. There are even plans in the works for a late October infomercial to air on swing-state broadcast networks.

The scale of her financial advantage is larger than anything Trump faced in his two previous races for the White House. When combining campaign and national party spending, Harris is further ahead of Trump than Hillary Clinton at this point in 2016, Joe Biden at this point in 2020, or Barack Obama was ahead of his Republican opponents in his two races for the White House, according to a Washington Post analysis.

When advertising by outside groups is added to the candidate’s coordinated campaigns, Democrats spent $225 million more on presidential advertising between the end of the Democratic convention and Oct. 4 — or nearly 1.8 times the $294 million spent by Republicans, according to AdImpact.

americans are being swamped with advertising begging them to not vote for the fascist, but half of the country still prefers to watch trump on screens

this week Call Her Daddy, next week Talk Tuah

does any of that stuff ever affect poll numbers much, or is it more about driving turnout and enthusiasm for election day?

does any of that stuff ever affect poll numbers much, or is it more about driving turnout and enthusiasm for election day?

The latter. It's "you want to be on the winning team, don't you?"

Meanwhile, Politico has found some "anxious Dems" who don't think Harris is doing enough.

With early voting by mail and in person already underway in more than half of the country, Harris spent just three days of the last week of September in battleground states. On Sept. 28, when Trump gave a speech in Wisconsin before flying to Alabama for the Georgia-Alabama football game, Harris was attending a fundraiser in San Francisco. And beyond concerns about her schedule, Democrats argue that Harris would benefit from venues that allow her to introduce herself to voters in a more authentic way, such as town hall events, more sit-down interviews and unscripted exchanges with voters.

"Anxious" Dems is a redundant phrase.

I know several Anxious Dems last week hoped that Biden would invoke Taft-Hartley to break the strike.

I think it’s safe to say that these last few weeks will be a blitz for the ticket.

“Debbie Downer Dems”

My friend canvassed in Michigan last week. It was a Saturday afternoon, so there were probably even more unanswered doors than usual, but his take is that when some elections - not just the top of the ticket but smaller offices, like school board or whatever - come down to mere hundreds of votes, just getting one or two people to the polls can make a difference, especially when you have a well-funded GOTV doing the same thing.

Meanwhile, Politico has found some "anxious Dems🕸" who don't think Harris is doing enough.

Candidates on the Campaign Trail- 39 days out from Election Day

Harris📍38 stops
Trump📍38 stops

Here is a breakdown: pic.twitter.com/NmU6Bt58N7

— VoteHub (@VoteHubUS) September 28, 2024

Partly playing devil's advocate here--I have no idea if more is necessarily better--but weren't Harris and Walz and all their energy supposed to run circles around the aging opposition in terms of campaigning?

they could theoretically ditch that one day off

What does "stop" mean--if they did three events in the same city, would that be one or three stops?

weren't Harris and Walz and all their energy supposed to run circles around the aging opposition in terms of campaigning?

That bottom line, indicating that they've visited nine non-battleground states to Trump's five, is something, especially when you consider that Trump's non-battleground stops have included New York (where he's absolutely gonna get blown out), Florida (where he's gonna win easily) and Montana (where he'll win easily).

I would think, ultimately, that would be far more important--where, not how many. It became clear after the election that Clinton took a couple of states for granted in 2016.

Yabbut who goes to a campaign event who hasn't already decided how to vote?

Per wapo Harris "spends three times as much, employs hundreds more staff and dominates the ad war." Seems more likely to affect the result more than a Trumpoid self-lovefest.

Unfortunately the thing still looks tied because the world fucking sucks

New York swinging right is the main reason congress is even a little bit competitive this year. Whoever plans trumps schedule is absolutely right to send him there.

The question in my mind is whether a Trump campaign stop creates any excitement or motivates his voters these days. If not, then he's just going through the motions. My sense is he's coasting on the voter allegiances he created in past years and he has absolutely nothing new to offer.

In 2020 Biden won almost wholly on the strength of Trump's massive negatives. Those negatives may have changed in intensity during his 4 years out of office and at the politically margins, but I question how many Biden voters have moved over to Trump in preference to Harris. I think there's a good chance Harris has brought in enough new enthusiasm and young voters to offset any Biden voters who are ready to see Trump back in power.

My hope is that Harris squeaks out narrow wins in so many swing states that Trump's minions can't challenge or overturn enough of them for him to steal a victory by throwing it into Congress or the SCOTUS. Maybe then we can be rid of him for good.

Got a flyer in my PO box this morning saying that Monica Tranel (running for the House against Ryan Zinke) will let men play women's sports and use women's bathrooms. And my response was... a weird kind of optimism? Like, it makes me think Zinke might actually be in trouble. Because if he was maintaining a comfortable lead over her, he could just send out flyers that say, "Ryan Zinke: He's a Republican. Vote Republican on Nov. 5." But instead they've got to rile up the bigots to make sure they squeak across the finish line? Basically, this flyer guaranteed that I'm gonna vote for Tranel when my mail-in ballot arrives next week, because their desperate scare tactics have convinced me that she's got a chance.

Monica Tranel (running for the House against Ryan Zinke) will let men play women's sports and use women's bathrooms

That's 75% of Ted Cruz/Cruz PAC's campaign right now (the other 25% is the border).

my town has its own style.

https://scontent-bos5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/462210452_10162246938567137_985604562263218572_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=OAHMVnUrhooQ7kNvgEJw10G&_nc_ht=scontent-bos5-1.xx&_nc_gid=AOqa7NiaKFFF5JLfOpcN9wx&oh=00_AYAG76ttkRVV4Pv3InPERe3gb5hp6FRfxq6lMohkxsq67A&oe=670782EF

Remember in October 2016 when all the stories were about the incredible ground game Democrats were running and how Trump and the GOP didn’t have any GOTV operation?

All I’m saying is it would probably be better for some folks mental health to not read any election news.

Well in retrospect we know Hillary wasn't doing nearly enough in the Rust Belt, while Harris/Walz definitely are. But whatever, I'm less concerned about my mental health for the next month than the years after.

one encouraging sign is I'm not hearing as much of the "I can't believe these are our two choices" talk as we did with Hillary and Biden. it does feel like once again the media is just covering Trump all the fucking time which may be bad but who knows, he's somehow gotten even more unlikeable over the last 4 years

I really appreciate your posts frogbs, you help me feel sane.

It seems like every story right now revolves around Trump though, like there is a big but sotto voce effort on the part of mainstream news media to get him elected again. I am probably wrong, but it just feels like that to me

I don't really understand the conflicting ideas that a) the majority of Americans are really tired of Trump, but b) the mainstream media wants him to win. They don't go together. If most people are tired of him, they tune out, and that's bad for media outlets--why would they want something that goes against their own interests? (Not to mention how personally tired of covering him they must be.)

That's not directed at you Dan S., just a general observation.

I think it’s more about how he’s always framed as the main character, like him or not that shit gets ratings. They know Trump terrifies people. And they have capitulated entirely to the right who accuses them of bias any time they try to report the actual facts.

otm

A lot of people hate watch and hate click trump stories. It’s not everyone, but it’s enough so that the amount of Trump supporters who click because they love their dumb guy + the hate clickers adds up to more views than other candidates.

Also, a lot of people read Trump stories because they want to keep an eye on what the fascist enabler is doing

I keep going back to something Chris Hayes said a while ago, it’s really bad for the country’s mental health to have this much politics in our lives. This shit *should* be boring.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/10/05/what-the-polls-are-really-saying-00182588

I agree that they bend over backwards sometimes to appear impartial--they're sensitive to being characterized as the flipside of Fox--but my honest feeling is that they do not want Trump to win. He's an old story. If I were American, I'm guessing that I'd be like untold millions of Americans if Trump wins: I'd just tune out for the next four years. Even though CNN always makes sure to have a Trump flunky on panels (sometimes two), their hosts are clearly pro-Harris.

(Realizing that yes, you couldn't tune out entirely.)

ha, way xp and has now been suggested but still: maybe the 45% that love trump love-hate media and cannot stop consuming it all the time esp if it is about trump. the 45% that are anti-trump are too busy doing uh, stuff that means they aren't even a media target?

list: things we are doing that prevent us from being election media targets

polishing nose-rings
catering to cat needs
contemplating dusky, who is sad

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean

The only thing MAGA republicans are good at besides grifting is messaging, and for example the messaging about Helene and North Carolina is intense, it's a total rat-fuck and has consumed the media, and it seems like it’s working

Is it?? All I’m hearing is that this administration is doing everything they can.

The only thing MAGA republicans are good at besides grifting is messaging, and for example the messaging about Helene and North Carolina is intense, it's a total rat-fuck and has consumed the media, and it seems like it’s working

They used to be good at messaging, but now they suck at it. There was a long thread on Bluesky about this today, where the guy pointed out that even as recently as Obama's tenure, the Republican Party would be able to take a Democratic victory, find a few real things that were bad, and hammer on those all day every day until people hated the whole thing, no matter how beneficial it might have been in the aggregate. But now, they spend so much time talking exclusively to each other on podcasts no non-maniac listens to, on Truth Social, on Fox News and OANN, and wherever else, that they've created a whole alternate universe for themselves and they just make shit up that has no basis in reality, and can't possibly be mobilized to do real damage to Democrats, because even cable news anchors will look at it and say, "You people are out of your goddamn minds." The entire party is Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert and Matt Gaetz, and when any one of those people isn't spewing insane bullshit, they're attacking one another. Their messaging is for shit because they're all insane.

Ultimately, their rhetoric has become a form of self-harm; it costs them winnable elections, their people are gonna lose out on government services and money because they think the government is holding things back when it's not... they're fucking themselves over. (And that's fine with me. Fuck 'em all; let 'em starve. I'm not Jesus, I don't give a fuck about your "deaths of despair" or anything else. You wanna put a shotgun in your mouth? I'm not gonna pull it out of your hands.)

luckily only the bad people will face consequences!

I know they are insane and are fucking themselves over, but I'm just wondering what the average person in North Carolina has heard about this and how it will affect their vote.

FPd for that abysmal comment, unperson

Whatever, man.

i feel like dan s otm on this. the "alternative" facts seem so alive to maga that i'm not sure they can get to the facts?

like if you believe that your government hurricane assistance went to haitian immigrants in springfield instead, who can convince you otherwise? your own damn lying eyes? nope. it may be self harming so what?

Whatever man at deaths of despair, bummer

That’s very similar to people whatevering at people on welfare because they should just get a job

(A view that I don’t like because, among many other reasons, even if I grant that 80% of the time you’re right, the other 20% it’s being cold and ignorant about someone who doesn’t “deserve it”, as if anyone deserves it

Often I enjoy the company of those that die of despair more than those left around who always understand everything

Anyway, sorry, just not a take i like

Yeah, I could really do without the performative “fuck your feelings, but liberal!” shit. Like, I kind of understand the basic reaction but idk why you feel the need to announce that it’s actually cool with you if someone with chronic pain and no job prospects kills themselves as long as they failed to vote blue. Same as the people on Reddit cheering on the Covid deaths of people who refused the vaccine, they might have been dumb to do so, it’s still gross.

I got mixed feelings about that Herman Cain award thing but it's important to remember these morons got a lot of people killed not just themselves

the reason why I liked that sub getting attention is because you'd hope the antivaxxers looked at that and saw people just like them were dying and their ultimate legacy was getting made fun of by a ton of people on the internet. if it knocked some sense into some people then good. of course it probably didn't, because these people don't really have the capacity to look inward. but they're still humans.

it’s actually cool with you if someone with chronic pain and no job prospects kills themselves as long as they failed to vote blue

You could have left off those last eight words. It's totally cool with me if someone kills themselves for any reason at all. I may disagree with their decision, but it's theirs to make.

The world is a bad place. Bad things happen every second of every day, and always will. If you can make something better, no matter how small, for yourself or someone else, do it. But recognize that happiness is fleeting and death is guaranteed.

Vote Harris/Walz!

I would say that polluting our thread with “I don’t give a fuck about your deaths or despair” is the opposite of making something better for anybody.

It’s just hardmanning from a different angle

Feels like natural disasters are just another form of school-shooting syndrome, where things keep getting worse and nobody does the obvious things to make them better.

The anti-FEMA stuff is rife around here but there's also been a lot of pushback on it from even Republican elected officials, as well as the actual people in the places that got flooded. (On our side of the mountains — not as bad as in North Carolina, but still pretty bad, people died, lots of damage.)

Gov. Hochul making a battleground state appearance in Pennsylvania for the Harris-Walz ticket on Sunday pic.twitter.com/Rpi0eb14H7

— Nick Reisman (@NickReisman) October 5, 2024

Uh-oh

Is their bench completely depleted?

I bet it's more like she's been pestering them for weeks to let her proxy somewhere.

She is so hilariously anti-charismatic. New York ends up with some real duds of politicians.

Vote Harris/Walz!

― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Sunday, 6 October 2024 bookmarkflaglink

Love how this msg and username are attached to the dumbest, most regressive takes!

“It's totally cool with me if someone kills themselves for any reason at all. I may disagree with their decision, but it's theirs to make.”

dude

lol sorry i need to not get into this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2024/10/05/hurricane-helene-conspiracy-theories-rumors/

I remember the good old days when FEMA used to round up patriots and put them into concentration camps now they can't even be bothered to do anything :(

Ms. Harris’s campaign announced on Sunday that she would appear on Tuesday on ABC’s “The View”; Howard Stern’s satellite radio program; and “The Late Show with Stephen Colbert.”

etc etc, lots of interviews this week https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/06/us/politics/kamala-harris-interviews-the-view-stern-stephen-colbert.html

FEMA's blocking volunteers from entering disaster areas. They're failing. Desperate residents are warning FEMA people, "Well, shoot me if necessary, I'm going in!"

That's what I heard from my father on Friday. Bullshit, of course. But the incident reminded me that however online we think we are these people listen to anti-Democrat shit all day, so when a new lie presents itself I'm at first not sure how to respond, and that's their strategy.

The Times has a long article about Trump's broken brain (gift link).

Trump’s Speeches, Increasingly Angry and Rambling, Reignite the Question of Age
With the passage of time, the 78-year-old former president’s speeches have grown darker, harsher, longer, angrier, less focused, more profane and increasingly fixated on the past, according to a review of his public appearances over the years.

Former President Donald J. Trump vividly recounted how the audience at his climactic debate with Vice President Kamala Harris was on his side. Except that there was no audience. The debate was held in an empty hall. No one “went crazy,” as Mr. Trump put it, because no one was there.

Anyone can misremember, of course. But the debate had been just a week earlier and a fairly memorable moment. And it was hardly the only time Mr. Trump has seemed confused, forgetful, incoherent or disconnected from reality lately. In fact, it happens so often these days that it no longer even generates much attention.

He rambles, he repeats himself, he roams from thought to thought — some of them hard to understand, some of them unfinished, some of them factually fantastical. He voices outlandish claims that seem to be made up out of whole cloth. He digresses into bizarre tangents about golf, about sharks, about his own “beautiful” body. He relishes “a great day in Louisiana” after spending the day in Georgia. He expresses fear that North Korea is “trying to kill me” when he presumably means Iran. As late as last month, Mr. Trump was still speaking as if he were running against President Biden, five weeks after his withdrawal from the race.

With Mr. Biden out, Mr. Trump, at 78, is now the oldest major party nominee for president in history and would be the oldest president ever if he wins and finishes another term at 82. A review of Mr. Trump’s rallies, interviews, statements and social media posts finds signs of change since he first took the political stage in 2015. He has always been discursive and has often been untethered to truth, but with the passage of time his speeches have grown darker, harsher, longer, angrier, less focused, more profane and increasingly fixated on the past.

According to a computer analysis by The New York Times, Mr. Trump’s rally speeches now last an average of 82 minutes, compared with 45 minutes in 2016. Proportionately, he uses 13 percent more all-or-nothing terms like “always” and “never” than he did eight years ago, which some experts consider a sign of advancing age.

Similarly, he uses 32 percent more negative words than positive words now, compared with 21 percent in 2016, which can be another indicator of cognitive change. And he uses swearwords 69 percent more often than he did when he first ran, a trend that could reflect what experts call disinhibition. (A study by Stat, a health care news outlet, produced similar findings.)

Mr. Trump frequently reaches to the past for his frame of reference, often to the 1980s and 1990s, when he was in his tabloid-fueled heyday. He cites fictional characters from that era like Hannibal Lecter from “Silence of the Lip” (he meant “Silence of the Lambs”), asks “where’s Johnny Carson, bring back Johnny” (who died in 2005) and ruminates on how attractive Cary Grant was (“the most handsome man”). He asks supporters whether they remember the landing in New York of Charles Lindbergh, who actually landed in Paris and long before Mr. Trump was born.

It goes hard. And of course there's an insanely cult-like quote from Steven Cheung:

Steven Cheung, the campaign communications director, called Mr. Trump “the strongest and most capable candidate” and dismissed suggestions that he has diminished with age. “President Trump has more energy and more stamina than anyone in politics, and is the smartest leader this country has ever seen,” he said in a statement.

SWEARWORDS

the washington post just did that article. old fake news!

How can the Times resist calling him the failing Donald Trump?

An interesting stat in that piece is that Trump's only done about one-quarter as many rallies in 2024 as he did in 2016.

Ms. Harris’s campaign announced on Sunday that she would appear on Tuesday on ABC’s “The View”; Howard Stern’s satellite radio program; and “The Late Show with Stephen Colbert.”

I doubt any of these milquetoast outlets would dare to question why Biden-Harris have colluded with Israel in killing thousands of Lebanese citizens to enact regime change. It would mess up the "vibes."

What's wild is Stern is probably the one I would trust most. Never thought I would type such a cursed thought.

Colbert's saving that query for Scarlett Johansson.

You make it sound like those interviewers aren't brave enough to ask that question, when they probably aren't even thinking it.

Stern will surely ask about the turmoil in Sybia

Because their entire ideological structure is racist to its core? Why, yes, of course

The anti-FEMA stuff is rife around here but there's also been a lot of pushback on it from even Republican elected officials

there will be pushback one day, then they will turn around and say that crooked joe biden gave money to illegal haitians instead of true american patriots. they will soak up all those government funds and then turn around and bite the hand the feeds them, and there will never be consequences from democrats or the media

what consequences would you expect or demand?

i'm just pushing back against the whisper of the implication that "even republicans are fed up with this MAGA craziness!" because they will happily lean into sober bipartisanship and then pivot back to extremist talking points when it suits them. the "even republicans" metric doesn't measure anything except cowardice, a black hole of integrity, and the failure of democrats and the media to hold them accountable for it.

We're past the point of holding anyone accountable. We gotta defeat them in the ballot box. The only malevolent way to hold voters accountable is to deny them the federal aid they denounce, thus making them say "I told you so"

We can also make sure a mudslide catches several GOP state legislators.

yeah i agree with you. accountability is not my focus, i'm just pointing out its absence precisely to highlight that shame, fact checking, and other old-fashioned tools for organizing politics are irrelevant. yes to the ballot box, and then hopefully to substantive policy changes to help working folks. i mean, i'm far more worried about democrats actually doing something for once than i am about restoring "truth" and "democracy" to our great union

i'm just pushing back against the whisper of the implication that "even republicans are fed up with this MAGA craziness!"

Some of them are. Not enough of them, obviously, but it’s a real thing — especially among local officials in some of the communities actually hit by the storm. They’re legitimately angry about the conspiracy theories. At the state and federal levels, of course what you’re saying is true.

Sad lol at the local Republican office-holders suddenly discovering that the "they" who are the villains in every conspiracy theory is being applied to them.

Yeah, happened with election officials in 2020 too (and will again this year I’m sure).

Now we’re really in the sprint

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tim-walz-outmaneuvers-fox-news-host-as-hes-grilled-on-abortion

I haven't listened to the podcast, but the Harris people at least got this good clip out of it.

Vice President Harris calls out Trump’s lies about women and abortion: “It’s so insulting… This guy is full of lies. I just have to be very candid with you” pic.twitter.com/vEKPIuT0o3

— Kamala HQ (@KamalaHQ) October 6, 2024

that is good. they need to call out this bullshit over and over again and be very blunt about it.

Just watched Kamala Harris on the “Call Her Daddy” podcast. I learned far more about her in 45 minutes than in any of the interviews she’s done with mainstream outlets. The reason: the questions were designed to get answers vs. play gotcha.

— TVMoJoe (@TVMoJoe) October 6, 2024

hearing that this is exactly what some voters in montana have been waiting for

Curtis Bashaw appears to have medical episode during NJ senate debate pic.twitter.com/w9RBg1WGu1

— Yaddle (@WigShoppe) October 7, 2024

lookin' good! get that guy a muffin.

This guy, Mitch... maybe they've all be taken over by glitchy pod people?

apparently he just hadn't eaten all day

so you're not explicitly ruling out pod people?

Grown ass man can’t remember to eat, wants to be elected as public official

SMH

Trump's lost the porn industry (gift link, I think)

Seventeen pornographic film actors on Monday announced that they had launched a $100,000 ad campaign on porn sites warning that Project 2025 — the Heritage Foundation blueprint for a Republican administration that has been a centerpiece of some Democratic campaigns — wants to ban pornography and imprison people who produce it. The online ads will run in the states that will decide the presidency: Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada.

The architects of the “hands off my porn” campaign are nothing if not aware of the polling. Vice President Kamala Harris is losing to former President Donald J. Trump among men, but younger men might be winnable — and pornographic websites are among the most heavily trafficked on the internet.

Quoting the Survey Center on American Life, the group said younger men are the biggest consumers of the industry’s products: Among men aged 18-29, 44 percent had watched porn within the past month. Among men aged 30-49, it was 57 percent.

“I have been in this industry for over 25 years and have witnessed many attacks on our industry, but Project 2025’s ban on pornography is the most extreme proposal I have ever seen, and voters have to take that threat seriously,” Holly Randall, a pornographic film actor, said in the group’s announcement. “We cannot simply rely on precedent that consuming pornography is legal and has been legal for a long time.”

FROM MY WARM, QUITE ALIVE HAND

Surprise Harris appearance at the Adult Video News Awards

Well, she is a stepmother.

An acquaintance who is not media savvy at all keeps asking me about "those illegals" which, it is annoying as hell to keep giving the facts and trying to talk her around with relatable values and experiences that she can identify with, but the other day she directly connected "those illegals" to the housing shortage, which I know isn't something that she knows about on her own! Turns out I guess there have been pro-Trump ads running during FOOTBALL GAMES??? Which is obv pvmic for everyone involved including the fucking NFL. But that does seem like some blatant falsehood-broadcasting to a very wide audience of not necessarily sympathetic viewers?

xpost lol

Sorry, to be specific, there have been fear-mongering ads running during football games (and other programming too?) blaming the housing crisis on immigrants/new Americans.

Anyway she also dragged me to a backyard campfire party that turned out to be full of Trump voters who were loud about it, so I guess the sun has set on that friendship because she did that knowingly.

i went to a memorial for my uncle and maria heard someone bragging that they had used one of his "charts" on Fox news. did not get any more info. i stayed away from the harvard business school/connecticut republican factions at the memorial reception.

Having spent the last couple months constantly watching sports on TV with my dad, the political ads are nonstop... I see the same two Ted Cruz and Colin Allred ads a dozen times each per baseball game, which is sad for America because obviously baseball games are still too long! But seriously, it's a stark contrast... in my regular life I see zero political ads, my dad sees (cumulatively) about 5,000 in three months before a presidential election.

Well, she is a stepmother.

― There’s a Monster in my Vance (President Keyes), Monday, October 7, 2024 10:18 AM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol damn

Did she see these ads in NYS in orbit?

She doesn't know anyone who doesn't live in NYS but she also doesn't watch football, so my best guess is that she's been talking to local (upstate) people who do watch football and are receptive to that message who have been repeating it to her.

Or are hearing it wherever, I'm sure it's not just during sportsball games but she doesn't consume any media like that, she watches gardening shows and cottage home tours, so she must be hearing it from others.

i had the bears game on briefly yesterday and saw an ad about kamala providing sex change operations for prisoners

huh, I didn't know:

I really need everyone to understand how big Call Her Daddy/Alex Cooper is:

—Second-most popular podcast in the world; 5+ million downloads a week
—Most-listened to podcast among women ages 18-24
—Reaches a lot of people who are NOT political

So, yes, this matters & is huge.

— Victor Shi (@Victorshi2020) October 6, 2024

an ad about kamala providing sex change operations for prisoners

I saw this anti-trans ad several times yesterday during football games on Atlanta network affiliates, before I turned off the television in disgust

Oath Keepers militia founder Stewart Rhodes' son is running for the Montana state house as a progressive Democrat. I'm not in his district, so I can't vote for him, but we could absolutely hang out and talk about Blind Guardian (the T-shirt he's wearing in his official candidate photo).

https://flatheadbeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/20241004_DURAM_ADAMS.jpg

She doesn't know anyone who doesn't live in NYS but she also doesn't watch football, so my best guess is that she's been talking to local (upstate) people who do watch football and are receptive to that message who have been repeating it to her.

didn't realize there were *trump* adds running on tv in nys. yikes.

both campaigns are running ads on YouTube too, maybe there.

stewart rhodes' son must have gotten his good looks from his mother

Well, sorry -- anti-Kamala ads. I haven't seen them, maybe they don't mention Trump by name? I defer to NA and Brad who seem to be catching strays from the same body of work.

didn't realize there were *trump* adds running on tv in nys. yikes.

Yup the sex change for inmates one (which I think is using edited/generated audio of Kamala's voice iirc) played like 4 times during the Phillies/Mets game yesterday while we were in a bar. It's disgusting and absolutely hitting the ears of New Yorkers in Manhattan. They do mention Trump by name and that he supports the message.

https://newrepublic.com/article/186695/joe-biden-chose-gaza-catastrophic-path

The world is really atomized. In that I (a man in his 50s) have ... OK, it's not true to say I had never HEARD of Call Her Daddy, I think I would have been able to pass a multiple choice test about whether it was a podcast, a TV show, or a movie, but I was almost totally unaware of this extremely popular thing!

Same

I like it when you call her daddy...

Ummm I listen to a podcast sometimes called CALL ME DADDY but it's not quite the same.

i think it's probably obvious but as a lot of people have moved to consuming TV via a strictly streaming method, they have become more unaware of just how bad it is out there. i don't feel bad for people who get this deep into it but i understand how it happens, and i feel like there are still those who truly don't appreciate just how deeply people are allowing their brains to get thoroughly pickled in right wing media monoculture, which seeps into things like those ads during games, and it means they never get or give themselves a single break to look at the other side. just how chill and untroubled life would be for so many if they walked away from all that, and yet they just want to fully immerse themselves. the family i've lost to it, damn...no wonder the thanksgivings back home are sparsely attended.

it reminds me of GoDaddy. i'd never heard of it but i don't go on spotify or watch/listen to podcasts. i checked youtube first to see if i could watch it there but she isn't on there. actually went to spotify to see it. the first time i'd ever watched video on spotify! i never even think of them having video.

People I was unfortunately sitting next to on Saturday were saying that Walz claimed he "wanted be friends with school shooters" -- which I now gather is something clumsy he said during the debate or that was taken out of context/manipulated? Anyway they repeated it verbatim with no inspection obv. And also praised Vance for his debate performance, and someone said, "The thing I was most impressed by was how polite they were to each other" and the other person said, "As they should be." Real "the thing that's wrong with politics is the lack of decorum"-type energy.

Idk maybe other people hear this kind of thing more, I live in the NYC bubble and now that I don't work in Bensonhurst anymore, I'm mostly spared these conversations.

yeah, walz does that biden line-flubbing thing sometimes.

I'd never heard of Call Her Daddy but I learned this morning that my teen daughter is a big fan, and described her as someone who "girl bossed her way to millions of dollars."

When I was last in PA in ... whenever it was that Harris announced Walz, there were so many anti-Harris ads (I didn't see any that were pro Trump). The novelty wore off super fast when I saw the same ads over and over again. There was one I saw a lot from a "nurse" in Arizona. I put nurse in scare quotes because, yeah, this person is/was a nurse, but she is no longer a practicing nurse but rather Julie Willoughby, some idiot GOP house member. Of course the ad did not reveal her political allegiance.

The ads I saw all felt desperate, fwiw. Lots of "Harris is all-powerful!" and "Harris is weak!" Which as I understand it is a trademark fascist attack. Per Eco's treatise on ur-fascism (by way of Wiki), "fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as 'at the same time too strong and too weak'. On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will."

I’m definitely not staying up on Election Night, but maybe I’ll stay in bed until Christmas.

sorry in orbit just to be clear i was not nit-picking over the source of the ads or suggesting you were wrong. just genuinely surprised that there were presidential (or culture warsy) issues in NYS. probably shouldn't be!

Lots of "Harris is all-powerful!" and "Harris is weak!" Which as I understand it is a trademark fascist attack.

this is also just standard political rhetoric though. cf. Trump is an incompetent buffoon but he is also an existential threat to the country (which of course I agree with)

agree with that statement I mean, not agree with Trump lol

I like the normalization of 'Talk Tuah' considering its original source

"normal"

Top 10 podcasts on Spotify in the U.S., 2023:

1. The Joe Rogan Experience
2. Call Her Daddy
3. Crime Junkie
4. This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
5. The Daily (New York Times)
6. Huberman Lab
7. Armchair Expert With Dax Shepard
8. SmartLess
9. NPR’s Up First
10. Anything Goes With Emma Chamberlain

Harris did #2, Trump did #4, Walz is doing #8

What a dire list

theo von, may i suggest "last weekend" as a new podcast title?

Someone from the Real World probably already has that title

The Daily and Rogan are literally the only ones of these podcasts I’d heard of until this fall

I’ve heard of three out of those ten. Old and out of touch, this one.

yeah, walz does that biden line-flubbing thing sometimes.

He also said something about "the expansion of Israel and its proxies" being a top priority for the U.S. — which everyone in the moment understood as a brain glitch when he meant to say Iran (which is how it was covered afterward, "Walz confused Israel and Iran"), but which I have seen repeated by pro-Palestinian voices as evidence that Harris-Walz support the ongoing colonization of the West Bank. I hate when people pick out the verbal equivalent of typos as if they represent something real and intentional. (There are plenty of reasons to criticize Harris on Israel, you don't have to pick a fake one.)

Between the Barstool association and from what I can tell from the outside an obsession with money and status Call Her Daddy has always had a reactionary stink to it. Future NextDoor posters of America.

I sort of thought Call Her Daddy would be a podcast about a woman calling her father for advice

I listen to a lot of podcasts and still I'm 3 out of 10 here too

Maybe she’d call Daddy once an episode and he’d answer some topical question about life or love

not sure what I expected, but "sex advice and comedy podcast" wasn't it

so basically this is like a risque podcast version of Dear Abby?

“Yeah, this is Daddy. What’s up, buttercup? These steaks won’t flip themselves, you know”

Call! (—Her daddy)
Call her, daddy

Theme music: “Come to Daddy” by Aphex Twin

Okay, okay