where are we at with alcohol?

this is a thread for talking about where we're at with alcohol. I did AA for five years in my 20s and it was what I needed at the time; in the years since I've had bouts of drinking too much, and long times of not drinking much. I've abstained for long periods of time -- over the last year, for much longer periods, I find that even a glass of wine can disrupt my sleep more than I'm willing to give to it, and two glasses will severely interfere with my energy levels/general well being the next day. wine, around dinnertime, is pretty much it if I drink anything -- whiskey I can't countenance any more; once in a very blue moon, like once a year maybe, I'll have a beer, but I'm given to excess and am likely to reach for a second one if I do, so I usually don't. all the recent research on just how bad alcohol is for you has me a little shook here in middle age -- a married couple I know are scientists who work with alcohol, and they're not teetotalers, at all, but they plainly describe how the more they learn, the more there aren't many upsides to the stuff. I've gone through periods in my life where few days passed without at least a glass of wine; those days are feeling more remote. if I find myself in a bar -- rare -- I order soda pop or a mocktail. I am interested by this shift, which I didn't really pursue: it's just where I'm at.

lol hell of a thread to come back to after visiting two of my favorite New Orleans bars! BUT — I only had one drink at each, and more than one or two on a weeknight (or honestly most weekends) has gotten a lot rarer for me. I'm very aware of its impact on sleep, and also that sort of draggy feeling the next day — not hangovers, which I rarely drink enough to get these days, but e.g. there's a noticeable difference if I go to the gym on a day where I had more than one drink the night before and if I didn't.

I like alcohol, I like the idea of it, the mythos, the bon vivance. But I try to be really conscious of its downsides, which are obviously considerable. My older kid is turning 21 in a few months, he's on the spectrum and because of that and other things he has told me he has no interest in alcohol. I told him that's great and is for sure the healthiest decision you can make when it comes to alcohol. I don't know if I'll ever give it up entirely absent a doctor's order, but I do try to have a mindful relationship with it.

coming up on a year sober... i tried a lot of things over several years, but eventually i just had to realize/admit i simply do not WANT to drink. i just don't. i am extremely confident about this and do not ever see myself having a drop again

the only thing i learned during this often-hellish experience is this maxim i just came up with writing this post: listen to other people, but not too much

uff da, liking alcohol more than I ought but not to intoxication

i find the cultural or personal norms around what excess might mean here fascinating and predictably alien to what someone from my geographical, cultural, familial and personal backgrounf might consider

but

i have a very fine whiskey shelf and id consider it an ongoing interest and pleasure but have dipped into it perhaps four measures worth in four months due to a factor of dietary and seasonal impropriety considerations

i have a weeknight two or three ciders or beers on a social occasion perhaps every fortnight with various groups

if a sit down meal is a social occasion then wine and other drinks will flow more heavily

at home as a couple we open bottles of wine for an evening in perhaps a few times a month and usually that might last two evenings

when the boys from home meet up its a 3-5pm start until bed, call that twice a year

none of the above entries ever strikes me as out of sync or pattern with the others, which i guess means im fine with my relationship with alcohol right now, and enjoy it for the various things it means to me.

only the last entry ever causes me any trouble the day after, as a rule, and I haven't had any qualms about the cost or my behaviour due to drinking in perhaps half a decade.

i can turn down a drink when in drinking company, this isnt a small thing here but its not a big thing when i do it either.

all in all, id say balanced. im a conscious user of alcohol in the forms in which i take it.

It's mostly an individual relationship. I'm happy with skipping the white wine served as an aperitive in family gatherings since I don't really like it, with ordering non-alcohol drinks in bars and restaurants, which is a little less obvious if you don't drink sodas, and when at home with not always accompanying each other at the dinner table.

When I do drink, it's usually one, maximum two glasses. At home it's usually red wine with a meal every second day. It used to be more but we have cut down. Occasional single scotch late at night, a bottle can last me a year. Outside of home, IPA or Spritz during the day, red wine in the evening. I will not refuse a cocktail night. So, moderate and responsible if there is such a thing outside teetotaling, and somewhat regular.

Just yesterday one of our stupid ministers who has links with the branch was openly decrying the ongoing dip in national consumption. Sounds like there is a real shift in young people, with a sizable portion of non-drinkers approaching 20-25% iirc. In my teenage and early 20s, binge drinking was still a hot topic.

approaching end stage

2 years 7 months 11 days sober. i know i can never drink again. i ruined my life, but more importantly, i ruined my health and was bed bound at the end of my drinking. it took me over a year to recover my body. go to aa 2-4 times a week and need to find a new sponsor, as i've not spoken to mine since february.

my mother is also an alcoholic, been sober for fifteen years. my sister is taking her on holiday in august and one thing she is very excited about is being able to have one rum cocktail. she has like one or two drinks a year, supervised, as far as i know. when her auntie died two years ago, she called me and sounded half cut although i've been told she was fine. it just seems very odd/painful to spend over a month thinking of one drink.

I can understand where you mother is coming from - occasionally I take a month off and by the end of the month, all I'm thinking of is that first drink I'm going to have when the ordeal is over. It's never as good as I imagine.

I struggle. If I drank whatever I wanted, I'd be drinking a bottle of wine a day, every day. I don't of course, I exercise some self-restraint, but it's a constant battle, and that battle is psychologically exhausting. I know I have to give up at some point. But I just have too much shit going on in my life to do it right now.

I've not drunk this year. On reflection, I've had a problematic relationship with booze for about 25 years; this intensified in my late 30s/early 40s. My two main issues are having no off button, drinking for the blackout, and dreadful hangovers, which got increasingly worse the older I got - physically, mentally. It's not pathological, but I can be a prick when I'm drunk.

I've been with my dad this past weekend and we were talking about our old days when we both used to belong to a local cricket club. The old man was wistfully bemoaning the loss of drinking culture at the club and was genuinely proud that my friends and I had 'learned' to drink there. The booze culture in the UK is so deeply embedded that it's shorthand for 'sociability', certainly for the circles I grew up in. I'm having to relearn how to be sociable, and it's easily been the hardest thing about giving up drinking - simply how to *stay*, at times.

I left a party on Sunday night where I was the only one not drinking. I walked up into the hills behind the house through a tunnel of yew trees. Bats. Last of the day's skylarks in the middle air. Eventually, the sun bleeding across wheat fields. This sober shit isn't getting old, I thought.

i hear you re socialising aspect especially in the uk.
went sober for 4 months at the end of last year.
it was both brilliant and boring at the same time.
since then i have been enjoying the social excess/booze in the last few months - possibly too much.
i do have a few days a week where i dry out, and i do have an off switch and know when to say enough is enough.
that said, when i went to see a doctor last week (nothing serious) and admitted my units per week it was a bit of a 'hmm .. thats a lot' moment.
but as others have said, i have a lot going on, both good and bad, and well, yeah ..

I think I’m in a much better place with my relationship with alcohol since my son was born and since I’ve started taking Mounjaro. This is in spite of some recent misbehavior that may be a partial proximate cause for the kidney stones I’m passing.

I feel a need to be sober around my son, he’s too much fun and too energetic to be impaired, although I will have the occasional drink in front of him. The Mounjaro has really stomped on some of the compulsive aspects and the weight loss (and limits) means my tolerance is way down.

I’ve gone from someone who always had a drink in his hand and drank them too quickly to a much better, if imperfect sip and savorer.

I still love alcohol, I’m now a two time judge of the Australian sake awards, but that too has led to some maturity. There’s no way you can get through two days of judging without spitting and without heavy boozing on the middle evening.

It’s definitely not perfect. I drank way too much at my sister’s wedding and at a conference in Sweden recently, free booze and entertained by a covers band (a lot of ABBA). But I’m in a better place than my dad, who still puts away a bottle of red most evenings and will often have a night cap after coming in (red wine of course, he gave up the brandy some time ago in a small concession). He wonders why we don’t let him babysit.

One side of my family is riven with alcoholics, but that’s never been my vice. I like spirits, champagne, cocktails, generally getting more austere as I get older. Everyone I know laughs at me for ordering whiskey neat, sorry you don’t know ball fellas. But on a serious note, the non-vice aspect is really useful for me. I’ve never felt the need, I can forget about it for months and not miss it. Given my family history that’s not nothing.

Oh also I got a load of bloods back last month and my immediate family were laughing at my liver’s numbers because it’s basically like…a child’s liver. Hardly any mileage. (This is NOT reflective of my life even given the above lol).

Almost three years off the drink and it’s been good. It wasn’t hard to stop and I can’t say I miss it. Hardest part is living in a new town and being isolated so the social aspect of it is rougher. Alcohol used to relax me enough around other people to enjoy their company, now i’m just antsy.

havent drunk alcohol since i was 17, and even when i did drink i have never been drunk. stopped when i was the first of my friends to pass my driving test and became the 'designated driver'. always have felt a real need to always be completely conscious of my behaviour at all times and was v wary of the way i saw people around me behave when drunk. in the uk it is a part of socialising but by my early 20's i realised i wasnt that into socialising anyway!

Mon to Thursday - sober as a saint and early nights to bed followed by an early rise, without being wealthy and wise!

Friday to Sunday - not quite pished, but averaging 3-5 beers and a bottle of red wine per day.

I'm convinced I'm going to die from mesothelioma before any long term booze related conditions catch up with me, so I don't count units at all on my allotted drinking days. I don't smoke, vape or eat junk food any more and I walk for miles and am in decent condition for an old bastard, so fuck it, going to get full enjoyment from my unhealthy weekends while I can. Maybe I'll have a health scare that will push me into full sobriety again at some point.

i definitely drink a bit too much. it doesn't really cause problems or erratic behaviour really, tends to just make me relax or have a laugh, but i do worry about my health. both like chronic illness stuff that isn't alcohol-related but would improve as any illness would if i cut down a bit, and long-term health. i exercise a lot but that's more mitigation.

i would prob have a six-pint night out once every week or so and i drink three or four nights a week. the challenges i've found in cutting down are numerous - it's the main social activity for everyone i know, as an irish person living in the uk. i live alone so boredom is a factor, even a quiet beer reading is quite nice and frees me from the flat where i work at home every day. i also enjoy cooking and am p interested in wine so that's part of it also.

summer too is a driving force, the current run of hot weather in london gives me this huge need to be out in a beer garden or in the park with friends, i guess which is engrained from a young age.

i have hobbies and nothing bad ever really happens with alcohol, compared to friends i know who get emotional or sad or get in fights, in many ways alcohol just makes me happy. and i am good at staying right on the edge of it really destroying things. but on the other hand there is prob a whole other life i could be living if i didn't basically live to just work, write, read, exercise and see friends.

I used to enjoy getting drunk but never as much as getting high, so when the hangovers got rougher I jusy decided to stop. IBS contributed too, booze not technically a trigger but it is a gut irritant and has made things worse on that front for me on occasion (it has also on occasion helped against it, but the instances are maddeningly rare and I can't gibd any common ground between them). Noe that my tolerance is down I also tend to get headaches like 30min after drinking wine, even very good wine.

I only really miss it in specific situations - a glass of vinho verde at lunch outside, a highball at a Japanese place, that kind of thing. Problem is if I'm at a restaurant I already need to be doing a lot of calculations in my mind about what I can and cannot have.

Also because I've soft quit, and nothing very dramatic lead to it, I do indulge every now and then and then get really self conscious when mates go "I thought you weren't drinking anymore?". I know they're not trying to police me or anything but it feels like having assumed the mantle of Non Drinker now I have to stick by it.

I have a tendency to over-reflect and make everything existential but... my abstention has come at a time of increased interest/focus on (Buddhist-inflected) meditation. I've become conscious of how certain behaviours and temperamental nuances are associated with or exacerbated by boozing. Like, booze is such a fundamental aspect of my social self, I can't quite access the version of me that exists without it. Or, another way of framing that, I'm having to build one from what feels like scratch. And that version, it turns out, is quite antsy, distracted and bored without the booze.

I like how booze softens the edges of my self-consciousness, or smears the tendency to self-regulate. Now, I'm left with the clearer, more explicitly aware version of myself and, yeah, that's ultimately a better way to live but also a giant pain in the arse in social situations.

I've found I can mostly replace the more tangential aspects of booze culture. Like LocalGarda says, I like sitting quietly somewhere with a beer and a book - it gets me out of the house, if nothing else. Turns out it wasn't the beer, per se, and zero per cent stuff is now good enough for it not to matter (once I've got over the quiet shame of ordering it).

In terms of clarity and continuity of mind (can't think how else to put it), being sober is a glory to behold. Like Daniel, I suffer with my guts and that too has been a revelation. I look forward to weekend mornings; I look forward to things like reading and exercising more. On balance, it's a no-brainer, really, but always the whisper.

Haven't had alcohol since November 2022. I had been alcohol-free for a few years before the pandemic, but when the lockdowns hit, my wife started drinking like a pirate, and I joined in, because what else was there to do? I sobered up about a year before she did, and watching her was like holding a mirror up to my face. Even when not desperately drunk, it was nagl, imo. I didn't hit a bottom, per se, but I realized that my life is complicated and difficult to manage, and alcohol did not help that one bit.

I don't expect I'll have another drink anytime soon. I haven't ruled it out entirely for my later years. A guideline I've been working from is that I should only imbibe in intoxicants in celebration, when my spirits are already lifted. Between personal life challenges I'm going through and the general state of the world, it isn't the right time for any of that.

Non-alcoholic beers are more plentiful and delicious these days (although it's not like I'm drinking them every day as a beer replacement - I only get them as a special treat). Non-alcoholic spirits are on the rise too, apparently, although I haven't tried any yet.

In Portugal my "getting out of the house" thing was going to a cafe, having a couple coffees and reading 20 pages or so. This is theoretically entirely possible to do in London but idk the vibes are off.

I like alcohol, I like the idea of it, the mythos, the bon vivance.

So do I, hence why I regulate my consumption. I still mix a cocktail every night and eat dinner with two glasses of wine. Unless I'm grading I'm in bed by 9 p.m., no trouble. Funnily enough, I drink less at home than when I'm out!

Since I can't drink much beer (bloat), I'm stuck with wine after the cocktail, and drinking a lot of red wine grosses me out. If I'm with the right crowd, I can nurse a beer for a couple hours after sharing a joint.

i started drinking probably around the time i was thirteen or fourteen. and i always drank too much. i often did terrible and dangerous things when i drank. i could list my low points but some of them i must already forget. but so i passed a point in my life where for various reasons that no longer seemed acceptable, so i tried to set rules for myself, like not drinking before the sun set, or not leaving the house when i drank, or only chasing sedatives with whiskey when i absolutely needed to sleep. those rules didn't help me. i decided to go to a meeting. i sat there and heard everyone talking about resentment and anger. i didn't feel any resentment, i was sure, and i never thought about drinking when i was angry. so i started again. i did more terrible and dangerous things, at which point, i decided i would go to one more meeting and if it didn't work maybe check myself into a rehab. and i heard the right person speaking at the right moment about the right things (not resentment but thoughtless compulsion to drink in any mood, about the romance of self-destruction, about shyness, about lots of things i could identify with). afterwards, an intense american took me aside and asked me if i thought i was above praying. i haven't had a drink in fifty-nine days.

I only drink in pubs, I never drink at home, and as I don't go to pubs much anymore I don't drink much anymore. When I look back at how much I used to drink - not just me but literally everyone I knew and socialized with - it's quite scary but that's the environment (the country lol) I grew up in. I like being on holiday and being able to booze a lot more than I do at home though.

I usually liked a few pints on a Fri (not every single one but often enough) but bcz I found my yoga class on Sat morning (going there for nearly ten years) it got a bit much to do a strong practice with a hangover. I would still do it but then I got into practicing at home during the pandemic and after, which then included Fri nights so I only have a drink now and then.

My mom was a severe alcoholic from my teens until she died when I was 39. It ruined me and destroyed huge parts of my life. I don't really know how I'm ever going to truly forgive her or come to terms with the trauma I experienced. It impacts my life every single fucking day but despite that I struggle with my relationship with alcohol. I don't have an off button at all and I know that I could very easily go down the same route. I hate that so much. It feels unfair. Anyway, I rarely drink these days - maybe 2 or 3 times a month and I feel fucking awful when I do which is probably a good protective development. So where am I with it? Idk. It's complicated and I really wish it wasn't.

dylannn I’m glad you are doing the work to help yourself

the only things i drink for pleasure at this point are fernet and sake, both of which are delicious and are kind to my stomach, both of which, if i have more than three glasses, i’ll feel fine in the moment but three hours later i’ll realize just how drunk i am, like my body catching up to my mind or something. i dislike that feeling. so like: two drinks is where i’m thinking about stopping now. i’m 38, it’s getting harder, i have sooo many sober friends that getting wasted doesn't need to be a social feature of my life. i also can’t write when drinking, and i have a lot of writing projects going at the moment, and i would rather not subvert my ability to work on them

once in a while i’ll have a beer and. it’s always a mistake

also hi dylann, really proud of you, thank you for posting that <3

drank a lot in my 20s and 30s, was not a good time. went through a long outpatient program 10 years ago. maybe it's the SSRIs but just thinking about beer right now makes me sleepy. i could probably do some damage with a bottle of korbel brandy and some bad news though. but really not interested anymore, it limits me physically and mentally and also if i'm feeling good i just won't stop. it's maybe the only area in my life where i feel like i have actually matured, like i can be like "no, no, there are bigger things here".

really lucky to have struggled with dryness minimally so far. i am probably a total dry drunk, though, just check out my rage posts.

Hi, I drank enthusiastically for 35 years, and loved it. Despite its well-documented problems, I believe alcohol has good qualities - pleasant sensations, rich history and culture, a great relationship with food. Camaraderie, celebration, hospitality, generosity. Lots of people can enjoy these glories responsibly.

Unfortunately all that relatively unproblematic joy ended for me last year. I spent 32 days staring at a hospital ceiling while my organs catastrophically shut down.

I don't recommend this path but it had a pretty miraculous result: when I got out, I had no interest in a drink.

I miss drinking only in a theoretical, wistful way. There are some sensations where an accompanying buzz might be nice, but it is simply too bad for me.

Best wishes out there for anyone who wants a better relationship with their beverages. Also for those who feel they aren't in control. And those who follow whatever method for staying away.

Happy to discuss any of this with anyone.

I can easily put away a 6-pack of beer between 2 and 8 pm, like I did yesterday. I slept exceptionally well and was up and going at 7:15.

It's also too easy for me to put away 9 or 10, especially when my wife is out of town, in which case I do not sleep as well and wake up with dry heaves. So I have been trying not to do this, and have been successful so far (it's been at least a month?).

Been drinking way more 4% pilsners which also helps, the stuff is basically barley pop. It's rare that I won't have at least 2-3 beers in a day. My ideal target is no more than 4, and nothing after 8 PM.

I feel like I might be addicted to the yeast/carbs and not the alcohol!

And yeah, it's all bad for you, they find out more all the time

i stopped drinking in 2018, don't really miss it. i didn't drink too much but i was always worried about being susceptible due to family history

that's why I've preferred weed a lot more lately. I love drinking but your body reacts to it like its poison. hangovers are way worse now than they were in my 20s...god, I remember waking up at noon after 15 Bud Lites and thinking, is this what a hangover feels like? is that all? last time I drank like that was the day before a wedding a year ago and the hangover was so bad I nearly barfed on the elevator. the only thing I could eat until 5 PM was a plain bagel. and even that I had to force down.

weed hangovers exist too but they're not so bad. I can function fine. I kinda like the effects better too. I notice when I'm drunk sometimes one hour blurs into the next but when you're stoned time moves slowly. but that's what you want when you're having a good time, right? for it to feel longer? even better, a strong edible + 2 or 3 beers...now THAT is a good time.

For years I had a single pint of beer every night after dinner (my reward for getting through the day) and probably 3 or 4 when I would go to the pub (maybe three times a month or so.) I thought that was pretty reasonable, more so when some of the guys in the construction trade that I work with would casually offer up that they consumed 18 beers a day! Every day! But only after work; they were compressing those 18 beers into a window of about 6 hours.

Then a couple years ago after a check-up I noticed that my cholesterol numbers were starting to trend in the wrong direction, so I figured it was time to rein things in. I've always been very active, diet was really the only thing to attack. On top of making a major effort to eat healthier, I decided to cut out the weeknight beers; essentially halving my overall intake. And sure enough, the numbers went way back down at my last exam. (Or up, in the case of the good cholesterol.) The system works!

i'm on so many different meds. estrogen cut my alcohol tolerance in half. antidepressants cut my alcohol tolerance in half again. i hate drinking by myself. i drink by myself and i feel silly for half an hour and then i fall asleep and wake up feeling like crap. i mean that could stand to be more specific since i woke up this morning and immediately had a panic attack. you get the point tho.

alcohol is a social drug for me and i don't socialize. i'd probably benefit from drinking more, honestly. i know what i'm repressing, and how much i'm repressing it. i worry about what will come out of i let my self-control slip. it's not like i don't have an addictive personality - it's just that my personal addiction is self-denial. family history be damned, i'm not cut out to be an alcoholic.

god, a lot of the people i know sure are, though. i mean we gotta do something to get through the day. seriously. every other company on earth may abandon queer people, but you know who will always be our staunchest supporters? the alcohol industry. the alcohol industry fuckin' LOVES queers. we drink like elephants - to forget.

it's not that i don't like alcohol. i just go places and it's dark and loud and i have no idea what's going on. that's the other thing. alcohol makes me stupider and less observant, and i like that. i feel less overwhelmed when i got some booze in me. i even start to open up a little, sometimes. sometimes.

and yeah congrats dylannn.

hey thanks everyone.

In a late career change, alcohol became my livelihood and main field of study. I try every day to be mindful of the fact that it's a legal and regulated drug, with the most potential danger for fast harm and slow harm of the legal drugs (incl nicotine, caffeine, THC/CBD). Sometimes it's like handing explosives for me -- be careful, stay focused. There's heavy irony in the fact that the fancy presentation of this drug is also a culinary art. The more I study the drug, the less I use it, but I still love the kitchen science behind its presentation and the artistry in its service. I had two whole drinks yesterday (one for study and one for pleasure), which is a lot for me, but on average my consumption will add up to 2-3 drinks per week in very small portions.

Big sincere congrats to everyone here who has had problems with the drug and is working past them.

I can foresee a moment when I'm down to a drink of X a day, in part out of gratitude for how this aging vain gay man's solicitude for his body mass and musculature wins out over sheer indulgence. The idea of day drinking repulses me. I can have a glass of wine or in a rare moment (i.e. vacations) a cocktail with lunch, but starting at noon and going on through the dinner hour like I used to, like, 15 years ago just...I shiver. These days my body cuts me off.

being sober is a glory to behold

I suspect that the worst thing about always having been sober is having nothing to compare it to, it's just life.

i know what i'm repressing, and how much i'm repressing it

Even sips of alcohol can result in sudden dejection or bad temper, I seem to be very susceptible to its effects. Same with caffeine, which I usually avoid.

i like these threads, it's just so interesting to see how individual and diverse everyone's experiences are. also yeah congrats dylan :). a thing i read recently is that - and apparently this is a cliche, but i'd never heard it - that when someone has a "drinking problem", the problem isn't drinking, it's sobriety. i quit drinking 5 years ago, but honestly sobriety is .. still kind of a problem for me! and i've accepted that it probably always will be. it's a combination of things, my personality, my background, etc. but essentially i'm always going to be "using" something to take the edge off. the past 5 years have been about finding things to use that aren't going to destroy me like alcohol was. those things are: exercise, weed, meditation. i really like this idea that i don't have to rid myself of addiction, i just have to become addicted to healthier things. anyway, those are my 2 cents for this thread and this (always interesting) topic. i remember reading these kinds of "alcohol updates" on ilx back when i was struggling more - it always brought important perspective to me. and it's nice to see where everyone is at with this stuff. all the best.

Seconding. These threads help.

Serious question: were some of y'all drinking enough so that the clarity afforded by sobriety disappeared for long periods? Were you day drinking or drinking through the night? Like I wrote, I drink on weekdays while I cook, after which I'll read or watch a movie in the living room and probably nod off. No clarity needed.

it's been a few years, can't imagine ever drinking again at this point

quitting soda is the much harder thing for me, but have been doing better with that recently

<3 map

I keep meaning to read this:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/148032237-i-quit-everything

were some of y'all drinking enough so that the clarity afforded by sobriety disappeared for long periods?

I'm not sure I understand this question - last major break I took was 3 months and the reason I started again was partly because I didn't notice any difference.

I don't feel I've got anything to contribute but I wanna say what a good thread this is and thank everybody for their posts

I haven't had a drink in over 20 years. When I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2004 my doctor said to stop drinking because there might be a reaction with the oral medications he put me on, so I did. Prior to that I had been a one- or two-beer person, with dinner (or the occasional work lunch), but nothing more. Because I realized in my early twenties that I couldn't write anything worth reading if I was in any way impaired, and being able to write well anytime the urge struck me was always more important to me than being drunk or high. Writing is my addiction, with buying music a close second. Alcohol, which is both an impairment and expensive, gets in the way of both.

I've been asked if I've ever written drunk. I never have because I write in the mornings and early afternoon, never after 5 p.m.

ere some of y'all drinking enough so that the clarity afforded by sobriety disappeared for long periods

It's complicated! I experienced a lot of brain fog that definitely wasn't from drinking itself (that is, not from having a high BAC or active buzz the whole time).

Long Covid? The weird limbo of quarantine living? Lyme disease? The anxiety and depression and despair that you're trying to use alcohol to silence? Sleep disruption? Withdrawal? Post-acute withdrawal syndrome? I had hepatic encephalopathy (where ammonia builds up in the brain because the liver isn't filtering it out, and its main symptom is confusion).

All of those can be driving unclarity. All of the above, some combination of the above, who knows? Chicken and egg.

It's interesting having gotten into a relationship with someone when we both were wine people (and they drank more heavily and loved cocktails as well). They've been sober for a few years, and I'm glad they've done it, but I do miss the uninhibited desire that came with being tipsy together.

I guess that’s something I miss, the uninhibited “FUUUUUUCK YEAH!!!” of it all.

But anytime I see someone at that point now, when I’m sober, they look like such a fucking pud and I know that I looked exactly the same. But that was the fun! NOT CARING. But it takes an asshole, a juvenile, or a drunk to not care.

Dance like no one is watching

Or breathalyzing

A long time ago I read The Thirsty Muse by Tom Dardis, which I thought at the time was a great debunking of booze as writing fuel. No idea whether it stands up but it definitely made me think about the romantic bullshit around addiction at the time

I don't drink as much as I used to. During the week, I mostly sip on a beer while making dinner and then another beer or glass of wine with dinner. I have an additional drink or so each night on the weekends, sometimes a cocktail, though not as much hard liquor as I used to. I have been taking off most Mondays and Tuesdays as a reset.

I will crank things up a little when we get together with old friends. Even that is much reduced from the old days.

Every once in a while after a drink or two on a weekend I will get that old feeling like I could downshift for more power and really settle in for a night of drinking. It's very strange, that desire, like riding a wild animal. Nearly ever time now I examine that feeling wistfully, like thinking about an old friend I've lost contact with, and quickly shift to think about my new friend - getting a good night sleep.

I have written both drunk and stoned — not anything serious or anything for work, mind you — and don’t find either helpful. Both make it hard to maintain focus in different ways, and writing is hard enough already.

I doubt it's good for any writing, but also it's particularly ill suited to straight journalism.

That said, as a self-employed person I have plenty of times nursed an afternoon beer for a couple of hours while working on a piece. That doesn’t interfere with anything, and I find dark empty afternoon bars to be nice writing environments.

One of my joys is to nurse a single glass of wine for an hour or so at my favorite bar while reading or writing.

I pretty much only drink at command performance type of situations— a date, or a certain type of party, or a lovely summer afternoon with a good friend. These occasions are rare enough that I hardly ever drink— maybe three drinks a month, if that. I don’t miss it, and I don’t “look forward” to drinking at all. For me, it was a habit that I decided to break in January 2024, and it just worked— I no longer needed or wanted a drink every day. That my partner can’t really drink due to severe gout also helps.

To give an idea of where I am now vis-a-vis several years ago, we have had a 1/5th of Johnny Walker Black that I bought for a work party on December 19th, and which came home with us about 50% full. There are still three shots left in it as I type. In 2018, my partner and I finished off a fifth of Johnny Walker red in a single night.

In other words, and as some of you know, I was very much a “functional” alcoholic from age 23 to about 34. Cancer in 2019 changed all that, though after my surgery late that year, I kept drinking a drink or two per day until January 2024.

one of my joys is to nurse a single glass of wine for an hour or so at my favorite bar while reading or writing.

cosign, but with a pint of beer

I have begun permanent sobriety. I cannot elaborate as to why.

I'm at 52 days without drinking. It was easy at first. But harder in last few weeks as I've grown to learn how much I relied on it as a numbing agent. How I feel people don't like me sober.

But I've not buckled yet. It's too important.

Good for you. Stick with it.

<3 Neando

hugs

i never really write when drunk or drink before writing cos drinking makes me want to do other stuff, or talk to people.

i definitely have had some ideas for improving a work in progress while drinking or very drunk that were good. i remember when i was studying fiction a few times the sentence most people picked out was one i added in while reading a piece of work when drunk. feel like maybe with fiction if you have a thing you're working on a lot it there's a decent chance you know it well enough to swing for the fences with a paragraph or two when drunk, but i always add these as a comment then look at them the next day.

I will say that I now enjoy drinking alone more than in company. I like the subjective experience and the gradual softening of the world and my relaxation and eventual sleepiness. (It used to give me energy and now I find mostly makes me tired lol.) Instead of experiencing alcohol as a social lubricant, I realize that I prefer to be straight around other people because I'm just fine being myself and don't need anything to smooth the way.

Hooray Neanderthal!

Good job, dylannnn and Neanderthal. And yeah, I absolutely recognise the 'people don't like me sober' thing. I get this weird nagging voice muttering shit in my air about how I'm weird and not as much fun as I used to be.

As for the clarity issue, I recognise what YMP said: whatever the cause, booze certainly exacerbated the fog and the episodic nature of the week - recovery, anticipation, indulgence. Rinse and repeat, with an increasing emphasis on recovery.

Everything is blah blah Buddhism at the moment but there is a concept called integration, which is pretty much how it sounds: you're looking to bring all elements of your life into some kind of alignment - you're physical and emotional energies, your morality and ethics, conscious and unconscious. It wasn't just booze, by any means, that made me dis-integrated, but I've got a clarity that runs like a thread through the first six months of this year. I'm really close to the end of an academic year at college and I can feel the creep of fog from tiredness and it's a real reminder of how I used to feel a lot of the time.

yes to integration

lol I feel like people don't like me drunk! so that means my excessive moments are largely solo, I am good at being a social drinker

Not drinking is easier (for me) when I can also enjoy the weedness.

Props to Neanderthal for sure and hey In Orbit I too was a solo drinker, in a very problematic way, for many years. I often avoided social situations bc they didn’t fit my preferred mode/ rate of consumption. I’m in recovery now after a few years as a dry drunk whose emotional issues eventually became unmanageable, finally driving me to recovery. Have found a great group of dudes practicing a very loose version of AA and they have really become a big part of my life. I also do a lot of reading from the Buddhist recovery which I find helps to put different names on many of the 12-step principles. Delusion/denial were big for me.

Keep at it and Neanderthal. I can’t overemphasize how helpful it is to talk to other ppl who have had similar experiences and who can help keep you on a positive path. You’ll do the same for them whether you know it or not. Moments, days and weeks can be difficult. Very very difficult.

A beer or two on Fridays and Saturdays, alternately a beer and a light g&t sometimes. If out for a meal with friends or the like, certainly I'll get something then most times. But that's about it, and I'm fine there. Never was a heavy drinker, at most a beer a day maybe for a little bit, but now I'm more happily settled into this way of doing things.

Went through a short phase of going out and getting pissed when I was around 18, then lost interest and stopped drinking altogether as the alcohol taste doesn't agree with my palate. It's not been too much of a social problem since then apart from a couple of ex-bandmates who were very adamant I should be drinking. One of them took it as a personal insult and ended up screaming at me in an incoherent white rage around the time I was quitting the band, not anyone's finest hour really.

I've still never understood the social niceties of buying rounds btw, mostly I stay away from drinking establishments as much as I can to solve the issue.

its striking to me how few of us are ok with our relationship with alcohol (as someone who is, but who has arrived there through several byways and has never had an uncomplicated relationship with it)

Alcohol is just my latest lens through which I study the human race, which I don't feel part of.

well the good part of that is that you should be looking through the bottom of at least two empty bottles tbf

Enjoying the thread. Think about this stuff a bit. Didn't have much interest in posting a "meh I'm ok" but there you go. I think I have a related struggle with a delayed start to fatherhood letting me wallow in some kind of arrested development that's had a sort of ongoing confusing effect on what to do with myself right now socially. But hey.

Yeah dmac I think because it's the people who have issues are the ones who speak up. Like, one rarely writes a Yelp review that says "just okay."

Also this is where a lot of middle-aged folks are these days. My booziest friends are all slowing down in our 50s so no one ribs me about having an Athletic or whatever. 20 years ago I suspect I'd have been savagely mocked for drinking Clausthaler or whatever.

Actually, I'm a bit surprised that for the most part ILX's '20s and '30s were so intense with the booze.

Well, we were really really social and had to accommodate everyone from noise borad to Dr Morbius in terms of "what will everyone want to do" so that was mostly hanging out in bars.

I'm still really really social and I never avoid social events! I just don't drink at them because drinking makes me sleepy and then I wish I was home and not in hard pants out in public.

I don’t think I’ve had a drink since late summer 2020 when I was trying to have an evening beer on the porch for relaxation regularly… but I just didn’t really enjoy it without a few cigarettes.

If I can’t get fucked up on shots and wolf down a pack of American Spirits I’d rather just not drink (and I definitely can’t do either of those anymore and be a functioning-ish member of society).

I'm still really really social and I never avoid social events! I just don't drink at them because drinking makes me sleepy and then I wish I was home and not in hard pants out in public.

read this as “hard in pants out in public” and was like “ummmm”

I'm not even equipped for that kind of faux pas.

i knew this, which was partly why i was like "wait a sec tabes"

I drank the most in my 30s because that's when I could afford to

we think it has its uses

we can do without it, if we must, but then we get bored

we think it has its uses

we can do without it, if we must

are we still talking about wearing pants

that too

i am literally sitting here in my boxers

this is another thing that has happened as i've gotten older— i don't drink much, and i immediately dispense with proper pants the minute i get into my house, exchanging them for either boxers in the summer or sweats in the colder months. i loathe jeans and chinos, i can't believe i used to wear them all the time so willingly. now they make me feel like i want to die.

I just don't drink at them because drinking makes me sleepy and then I wish I was home and not in hard pants out in public.

otm. this is where i'm at with alcohol!

i immediately dispense with proper pants the minute i get into my house,

So do I, then when I mix a drink I invite them back into the room.

I’m slowly and unintentionally entering the “change into sweats as soon as I get home” phase of life. Not hating it either！

i immediately dispense with proper pants the minute i get into my house,

So do I, then when I mix a drink I invite them back into the room.

― hungover beet poo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, July 2, 2025 2:07 AM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

you minx

we think it has its uses

we can do without it, if we must, but then we get bored

― mookieproof, 02 July 2025 00:50 (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

alright bilbo just leave it in the envelope pls

Roffle

jeez now I am wondering if LOTR could be an extended allegory on alcoholism

aragorn have another

go on so, mine's a morgul

Hey Elrond, you're buying the next El-ROUND

Hello, happy drinker here! Firstly, it's the only drug I know of where there's an aesthetic involved in its consumption (so I don't drink any old shit, for starters). Secondly, the best pub I have ever visited (since I started going to pubs in 1979) happens to be 3 minutes' walk from our front door. I go there about four times a week, usually 6pm to 8pm, for two pints. I worked there for a year, I'm friends with all the regulars and staff, and going there acts like a social shuffle button - you never know who you're going to be talking to, and what about. I'd far rather go there than round to other people's houses, and I invariably walk home on a happy high from the social contact.

That's the stuff.

I do wish I had a local like that. The third space is an important thing.

It’s not something Australia does very well. I’ve had way more interesting chats with randos in Japanese izakayas than I ever have in Australian pubs. As in America - sit at the counter = fair game for a chat.

Australians are seriously weird about sitting at the bar - which means sitting at the bar is often a great trick for getting a seat at an otherwise booked out restaurant.

On the other hand, maybe it works better in the bush

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iizBGGCfkA0

yeah I've been going to my local for 30 years now! but it's for sale :(

I recognized early in adulthood (age 27 or so) that a liquor cabinet was not in the cards, as I tended to start and couldn’t stop. I’d come back from USA and bring home a new addition to the “liquor cabinet” but then I’d drink four doubles while watching a movie and the bottle was gone within a week.

Was generally a fun cool drinker until 2019/2020:

- PTSD found me drinking to dissociate
- early ease-up on the lockdown meant my friends weren’t going out but bars were open
- a pint and a double rapidly accelerated to three pints and three doubles.

Through 2020/2021 I don’t think I went a day without at least six units of alcohol in my system by bedtime. Always drinking at the end of the night, but quickly.

I first eliminated liquor, which helped a lot. I asked the bartenders at my two locals to refuse me liquor, as I tended to let my guard down after a beer or two. They obliged— and it was amazing how frequently somebody was offering to buy me a shot, and I’d accept, and the bartender would remind me of my request. Well, it happened three times.

These days I vacillate. I go two weeks stone sober but then will have one glass of wine which will turn into two bottles, and four days pass with me drinking and drinking. Getting diagnosed with PTSD and getting the right treatment has helped, I feel GREAT these days.

My problem really is that most of my friends are drinkers, and most of our social activity involves drinking. This is oftentimes fine— I went out last night and drank 0% for an hour with some friends, and tonight will be the same except with kombucha.

My goal really is just to be completely alcohol-free. The last night I drank was just last week, in NYC, at The Townhouse, where I went for “one drink” but that drink was a free pour martini, which of course was followed by four glasses of wine, several showtunes sung for the oldgays, and a flirty kissy moment with a man from Dubai whose name I’ve now forgotten. Only one drink and there is no self-restraint, so yeah, I do require a sober future, but I’m taking it a day at a time, and I’m usually six-days-a-week without any booze in me.

It helps a lot that bf doesn’t drink at all, really, maybe one boozy night a month, but is an evening stoner, which I enjoy— a toot of the weed and four cups of tea is an ideal evening for me

Hello, happy drinker here! Firstly, it's the only drug I know of where there's an aesthetic involved in its consumption (so I don't drink any old shit, for starters). Secondly, the best pub I have ever visited (since I started going to pubs in 1979) happens to be 3 minutes' walk from our front door. I go there about four times a week, usually 6pm to 8pm, for two pints. I worked there for a year, I'm friends with all the regulars and staff, and going there acts like a social shuffle button - you never know who you're going to be talking to, and what about. I'd far rather go there than round to other people's houses, and I invariably walk home on a happy high from the social contact.

― mike t-diva, Wednesday, July 2, 2025 7:50 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

ya having a regular bar to go to stuffed with nice, open-minded people is definitely a plus, I've found a little spot around here full of music nerds and trivia buffs and a variety of esoteric folks, it rules to have a place like that

It’s not something Australia does very well.

Yeah, we've all seen Wake In Fright.

i can probably count on my fingers the days I haven't had at least one drink in the last 5 years. We enjoy good wines and making nice cocktails at home, but it does get expensive which is my main negative issue really.

I like beer. Have for 50 years. I don’t consume the mass quantities of cheap stuff I did as a 20 something, so it’s been years since I’ve been super drunk, but these days it’s the frequency more than the quantity that concerns me a bit. I see live music 1 or 2 times a week, which always entails a few pints. I play in 3 bands, so more gigs, with drink tickets. Sometimes a few at home. It all adds up. But I work out regularly, eat well etc. so I haven’t felt overly concerned, although many of my friends have quit.

ya having a regular bar to go to stuffed with nice, open-minded people is definitely a plus

yep and mine is full of local history and memories too, not just 30 years of shows and hanging w/friends but like they have a portrait gallery of departed patrons, several of which were dear friends of mine. it's so nice to go in there and see their smiling faces as I talk to old neighborhood friends and meet new ones. the alcohol is a bonus, but I went there just as much last time I quit. just got bitters/soda.

I had a problem with drinking too much in social situations and the last time I got drunk was 2017 - blackout drunk and the worst 3-day hangover of my life. Since then the only time I’ve had a drink is when my husband and I share a bottle of dessert wine (about once or twice a year max). I’m a very unpleasant drunk to be around (talk way too much, overly sentimental, loud, etc) and am much better suited to edibles which are now my vice of choice. I also quit nicotine 7 weeks ago so I absolutely cannot have alcohol ever again because those two things are a holy combo for me.

damn way to go on nicotine hopefully the worst is over! team edibles ftw.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-21-2015/bm_SIp.gif

Weirdly, my cig consumption is similar to my alcohol consumption— I can and do consume them, but rarely, and I never think about them, even when I have access to them and they're staring me right in the face. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Xp I quit cigs and picked up vaping years ago, which was a truly terrible decision. Much harder to quit. For such a heavy user, I had no physical side effects of withdrawal. But I’m extremely sad about quitting and my dopamine levels are fucked up (I’m eating so much candy). Edibles are so much more enjoyable than getting drunk and I’m much better behaved.

I come from a family of alcoholics, so I've always been wary of crossing a line. Luckily, I never developed a serious problem, but I did drink a fair amount and somewhat frequently in my 20s and early 30s. However, being pretty scrawny, I've always had a low tolerance, and being on SSRIs has amplified that further.

When it comes down to it, I just don't *enjoy* being drunk very much. I like having a beer or two with friends, or posted up at the bar with a book, and I'll do that once or twice a week. I try to avoid drinking alone at home, it just makes me sleepy and stupid and useless. I always try to remember that some of the most fun times I've ever had either didn't involve alcohol or intoxicants at all, or or only involved them on a trivial level.

Dan P the gig thing was a hurdle. Due to the whole thing where you load-in, set up, wait for showtime, play, tear down, hear other bands, load out... it can be four or five hours, in a bar, with my closest friends.

Now it's normalized but the first sober outing was... an adjustment.

I can imagine. Each of my bands contains at least member who is TT, but we play a lot of gigs in brewpubs with so many tasty offerings, or we get a green room with a beer cooler. It’d be a huge adjustment for me.

Instagram has been shilling a lot of non alcoholic spirits to me since this thread started.

Stay strong

Someone said to me yesterday a propos of something else, "This [food retail situation] is similar to NA items" and I said, "Narcotics Anonymous?" and he said, "No, Non-Alcoholic." Me: "We come from different worlds."

My brother's dad was an alcoholic. My earliest memories of home life are the flat we lived in, above the pub where he drank and my mother worked. He would drink and they would fight, he would hit her and she would cry, and eventually me and my brother and my mother didn't live there any more.

Understandably, I was very sensitive around alcohol until my mid teens. This was very difficult because in the west of Scotland, particularly in the satellite towns of Glasgow where I grew up, the culture is that when you get to around 12/13 you start finding ways to drink in the park. There was a girl who got her stomach pumped when we were in 2nd year of high school after overdoing it with the cider. I wouldn't have been "cool" for many reasons, but I certainly was uncool for not drinking and binging like everyone else. Everyone also smoked weed, which does nothing for me except make me sick. I don't have any issue with it but it is not for me.

I made friends with people in the village I moved to when I was 15. They didn't know I was uncool (I mean, they knew I was gay but didn't care like the folk at my high school, and they didn't know I was an academic overachiever) so I started to go out with them to under-age discos and house parties, and I started drinking. Of course, I had no clue about booze or how it impacted me, comparative to my age and everyone else. The first time I drank, I genuinely believed that vodka and beer would have the same effects by volume. I do not like beer but I like vodka in a mixer. It was disastrous in a way, but no regrets!

When I started university I had a huge culture shock. I was 17 in the autumn I started, and didn't turn 18 until January. I think if I had been legally allowed to drink in those first six months it would have all looked very different. At uni, I was popular - I got on with everyone, to the point that in our class of 30 I was nominated unchallenged to be the class rep and represent everyone at meetings with staff etc. I could never have imagined it. I was invited out every night. When I turned 18 I was going out at least three times a week, sometimes more. Everything was dependent on alcohol though. It wasn't about what we did or where we went, it was about how drunk we could get. The days of 69p drinks in grotty bars. I started working a part-time job and the team there could drink like you wouldn't believe. I couldn't even drink that amount of non-alcoholic drinks in a night without being ill. I had a manager tell me I was being boring and sensible for not drinking, then be annoyed the next day that I was unwell, because she couldn't believe that I simply didn't have the experience and toughness to handle it - the culture here is so assumptive that alcohol is a universal experience for everyone growing up.

When I was 18 I took custody of my younger brother who was 15. He was the opposite of me at that age - he was cool, popular, adored. He also got away with murder. In the late 00s during the peak "plant food" era he would have it delivered to our door. I could barely handle my drink and he was doing allsorts. He went off the rails. I've seen him have seizures after coming home from a night clubbing. It really put me off in a lot of ways. And watching my brother - the son of an alcoholic - be driven by it, was truthfully unpleasant. But still, it didn't stop me from drinking.

At 22 I had enough of myself and I went to the doctor to try to deal with my mental health. I got prescribed antidepressants and was warned not to drink while taking them. I wanted to get better so I decided to stop drinking. For six months I didn't touch a drop. I didn't miss it. It gave me a lot of clarity around what was in my life. I realised that my friendships weren't based on mutual values or tastes or hobbies: they were built on drinking, and doing silly stuff when drinking. I went to a club playing terrible music, the same club we went to every other week for years, and without the booze I couldn't overlook how much I hated the music and the crowd. I didn't go back and I didn't miss it. I dated a boy who was sober and I felt better. Six months down the line, I didn't need the tablets any more and I had a big night out at karaoke where I was exceptionally drunk and it was great, and it was even more fun because I knew the drink wasn't the only reason I was enjoying myself.

Now, at 37, I'm very mindful of what my relationships are like and how strong they are without alcohol. I speak to my friends about serious things and fun stuff when we're not drinking. We get together and we drink but we don't solely get together to drink, and I think that most people I know don't actually do that often enough. One of my oldest friends, a girl I've known since we were 12, did not drink until her mid 20s because of a religious upbringing. She barely drinks now but she isn't rigid or difficult about it - she simply doesn't feel she needs it because she spent so long without it that she knows how to have and be fun without it. I envy her in a lot of ways - I don't think I need to drink to have fun, but I admire her self-confidence to be comfortable without it when everyone around is getting into it. I have Nordic family who find the British drinking culture so strange. I would find it odd to go out to camp in a field with my pals without a drink but for them that's a good weekend.

I like drinking. I don't even really like the taste of many drinks - I don't like beer or cider, I don't like whiskey, it took me a long time to enjoy rum and wine. But I like what I feel when I'm drinking - relaxed, comfortable, excitable, happy. I like being around people and having fun and doing fun things. I'm going to go out this weekend and get very drunk. But I haven't had a drink in two months and I hadn't even realised until I thought about it after seeing this thread. I can manage without it. I just really like it.

That’s a great reflection, boxedjoy. I should say that I, too, love to drink. I just don’t do it very often any longer. One of my favorite memories of my recent trip to the Bay Area is spending the golden hour sharing two bottles of Pliny the Elder with one of my best friends on a porch. Perfect vibes.

I feel so lucky that I never developed a taste for anything harder than beer and I feel so lucky that although I developed a dependency, I just kind of got up to the edge, enough to peer over.

I’m at a six pack a day of founders all day IPA. Only missed a couple days in the last 5 years. Totally functional alcoholism. Fortunately I had a lot of role models in my friends dads and know how that story ends so very ready to be done

shoot what a bad name for a beer. Best to you

it's a great beer! it's called "All Day" because it's half strength lol

i get that it would be a "seasonable" type thing but yeesh

sessionable*

My session days are long behind me, and most here wouldn’t quantify my consumption as such. I’ve only experienced one pass-out (Carnival, friends had my back) and that was enough tbh.

I don’t think I’ve had more than 10 beers in my life, because I dislike beer as much as my little sister loves it. About one-third of my family on all sides have had problems with booze and one uncle died of an alcohol-related stomach haemorrhage.

Mostly I save booze for holiday gatherings and birthdays, I don’t drink a lot in a sitting and I stick to Guinness, spirits or lighter wines. At restaurants, I’ll have a glass of wine, saké or a cocktail; maybe one more if it’s hot and I’m drinking tons of water that day.

non alcoholic spirits

I was getting a bunch of ads for hemp spirits for a while (possibly because one close friend I interact with on Instagram was into NA cocktails) - no THC and I don't even think they had CBD. The advertising copy made them sound like gin most of the time ("botanicals"). The worst liquor and it doesn't even get you drunk, horrifying.

I’ve yet to be impressed by any NA spirits or wine. I’d rather just have soda water with a splash of cherry juice or something. NA beers are good tho, I’ve worked them into regular use, probably drink them more than actual beer (because I prefer spirits or wine for alcohol).

One thing I’ve become increasingly sensitive to with alcohol is that I really should not drink when I’m in a bad mood, because the post-drink comedown — even just from one cocktail — puts me in a worse mood. I’ve always been more inclined to drink when I feel happy than down anyway, but it’s become more of a rule. (Weed is better in those circumstances because it’s so pleasantly distracting. Exercising is better than either.)

I drink lots of NA beer (my AA friends see that as heresy but whatever) but NA liquor is a mystery to me. I just don’t get it.

For me and NA beers, Guinness Zero is streets ahead of the competition.

the phony negroni is excellent. no idea re: other na spirits

hemp spirits for a while (possibly because one close friend I interact with on Instagram was into NA cocktails) - no THC and I don't even think they had CBD.

Some of the ads I'm getting seem to heavily imply some sort of mood alteration - like specific ones for "party times" and "relaxing" - but very cagey about what would be in them to hold that influence.

i tried a couple of cans of TRIP stuff last year.
for 20 mins i felt a bit drowsy and that was it.

I had an old fashioned twice with sober friends at an NA bar (a coffeeshop where the drink menu changed at 5 p.m.), made with Pathfinder (hemp spirit substitute from Seattle). Had the same strong orange-peel taste I'd expect from a regular one, and each time had it with a different friend who was newly sober, so it kept their going-out-for-a-cocktail spirit alive.

Of NA spirits, I have thoughts.

1. Ritual gin alternative is worth trying, it mimics the bite of gin using pepper. Free AF canned mocktails claim a "natural heat additive" which they call "Afterglow(tm)" I am 99% sure is just pepper. Both are rather expensive so I just started buying cayenne extract and adding it to whatever.

2. Pathfinder, as Eazy says, the hemp/botanical thingy, tastes nice with ginger ale or Dr. Pepper. I like it not because it reminds me of bourbon (it does not) but because it's bitter and complex and interestingly resiny. Feels more grownup and if (like me) you're used to mixing drinks, it's good at replicating something like the vibe of drinking.

Significantly for ilx they also make a canned "Negroni." Not bad but also not a Negroni. Pricy for what it is.

3. Three Spirits and other "functional" beverages:

ads I'm getting seem to heavily imply some sort of mood alteration

Yeah that is marketing, They have herbs like chamomile, valerian, ginseng. No more or less calming than what you find on your great-aunt's tea shelf. To be fair to them, people have been ascribing calming/energizing effects to roots & herbs since caveman times so it's maybe not complete bullshit? If they had THC or shrooms they'd be sold and marketed rather differently.

4. Lots of restaurant or bar mocktails are just spritzers with juice, definitely not worth the $13 or whatever to me.

There's a store nearby that sells only N/A drinks, and they sampled something called Dromme and it was very good, but at $40/750ml bottle, not gonna happen for me.

https://drinkdromme.com/

I had the 'Awake' variety.

XP
I tried the Ritual gin too, and thought it was decent, but it seems like the flavor would be lost in a cocktail.

im surprised about how much of the engagement with the thread question has mirrored what id consider a temperance movement relationship with alcohol, even for those who do drink to whatever extent.

this isnt to say my comfort with my own level of use is any sort of model, we've all noted that isn't how it works nor can work, but I'd have expected a split of answers that had a lot more "i drink x amount/on y occasions and im fine with it"

is america, or - if i may- the american left moving towards a position of teetotalism or a notion that one "should" aspire to same re alcohol or am i misreading the responses here?

not a loaded question I've genuinely been curious reading

Darragh I think it's selection bias, people with complex thoughts about this are mostly people who have _had_ to think about it and those folks are more critical.

No one writes a hotel review to say "meh I stayed here and it was fine," you get the tiny bunch of people who had a very bad experience and it skewed the picture.

Nickn I find that tonic, lime, and cayenne extract is almost as good as Ritual and tonic.

Also this thread would have been different 20 years ago or even 10

I drink about four beers a night on weeknights, frequently quite strong IPAs, and more on weekends, it’s good practice for when I’m out and about with friends on travel or whatever

I'm not teetotal by any stretch. I'm very comfortable with drinking about 300 ml of red wine daily with my supper. I've become leery of distilled spirits and generally avoid it these days for two simple reasons. The first is that I spent about a decade from my mid-30s to mid-40s self-medicating, mostly with whiskey or brandy, but I was ecumenical in my tastes. It was not healthy and I've never succeeded in establishing better habits around it. The second is that nowadays when I drink whiskey or other spirits I sleep very poorly and I can feel my immune system taking a hit from it. So, I stick to wine at my evening meal and I'm happy.

Drinking is a fine activity if you’re not driving or cycling and it’s an excellent accompaniment to cooking

One day the doctor is going to tell me that I need to cut out the alcohol and spicy food and I’m going to ask about euthanasia options

(Joking)

I love drinking and cooking. Even just cooking with alcohol when you are not drinking it as well. I'm such a psycho that I started cooking a red wine caramelised onion gravy from about half nine this morning!

re:deems' post - a fair few posts prob just vaguely imitate or validate the previous ones, or else completely ignore them

re: deems’ question, it’s an interesting question. i don’t really think the US left is moving toward temperance, but i do think that not drinking as an option and lifestyle has become more visible and popular, and language around alcohol use has changed dramatically in the past few years.

re:deems' post - a fair few posts prob just vaguely imitate or validate the previous ones, or else completely ignore them

But also a lot of people with drinking problems can’t or won’t admit to them and are not going to be doing so in this thread given the general tenor of most posts

Contrast with this thread from 2010

I'm an alcoholic

also many ilxors are drinking less as they get older (and older and older)

How old were you as of April 3, 2024?

I was thinking of this thread from 2002 which got into specifics: How much alcohol do you drink a week?

I do sort of feel FOMO for quitting drinking before all the fun single service malt beverages got big like buzzballs and crown royal w&c in an aluminum can

idgi... those never come close to doing it yourself, do they?

nah, not at all, they just seem fun, idk.

I think recent cultural influences have been Huberman’s “not even an ounce is good for you” messages and a correction for many women after lockdown-era Amy Schumer “it’s wine-o-clock” memes. Meaning two different groups of people who cultural currents sway have moved toward not drinking in the past two years or so.

xp
LaCroix et al is the real innovation afaict. Made it easier for me to cut back on beer for sure (sometimes wanted a cold fizzy thing and i'm not a pop guy). Where was that technology 20 years ago? Maybe it was around but the only stuff i tried was aspartame or whatever (tastes like metal to me).

i forgot that i started that thread 15 years ago, YMP. jfc

I continue to plow through limes and soda water like a madman. Wife has tried to get me to buy a soda stream type thing but they all seem like a pain in the ass in one way or another with a relatively short lifespan that more or less negates the environmental benefits.

gerolsteiner is super cheap at my tj's - stuff is good - high mineral content.

I continue to plow through limes and soda water like a madman. Wife has tried to get me to buy a soda stream type thing but they all seem like a pain in the ass in one way or another with a relatively short lifespan that more or less negates the environmental benefits.

my husband got the Ninja Fizzi for me as an Xmas gift and honestly, it is the best of the ones i have used

I’ve never found one with big enough bubbles.

with the Fizzi you can control the bubble size/crispness. they are the most expensive of the home seltzer makers, but i like it better than the sodastream, which i ditched because of the ties to Israel, as well as another brand that i can’t quite remember but truly sucked

Tabes, apologies if that's an uncomfortable dredge-up for you. It wasn't my intention.

Fwiw I had a rough time rereading what I wrote then. Insufferably glib given what happened subsequently.

im surprised about how much of the engagement with the thread question has mirrored what id consider a temperance movement relationship with alcohol, even for those who do drink to whatever extent.

this isnt to say my comfort with my own level of use is any sort of model, we've all noted that isn't how it works nor can work, but I'd have expected a split of answers that had a lot more "i drink x amount/on y occasions and im fine with it"

I had the same response at first; I even doubted my own habits given the tenor of the thread. But the thread once again took an interesting and worthwhile turn. Thanks, all.

Nickn I find that tonic, lime, and cayenne extract is almost as good as Ritual and tonic.

― psychopompatus (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, July 5, 2025 1:44 PM

It's the juniper that I want from a gin in my G&Ts. I typically use Gordon's. Ritual does have some, but they seem to be going for the high end market with subtle botanicals, which is probably good for a martini, but not a G&T.

Tabes, apologies if that's an uncomfortable dredge-up for you. It wasn't my intention.

Fwiw I had a rough time rereading what I wrote then. Insufferably glib given what happened subsequently.

No, it’s fine, please don’t apologize!

I kept drinking at a decent rate for years after that, until I couldn’t any more. Made a lot of bad mistakes in that time as a result, but I have already dealt with the consequences and psychological effects of said mistakes, and have forgiven myself. No shame.

What’s wild is that the boyfriend mentioned in that thread broke up with me a month later— turned out he was addicted to heroin, I helped him get clean after we had broken up, and then a few years later, he tried to quit drinking and ended up nearly dying, in an induced coma for a week. Now he’s a social worker and addiction counselor!! So, it ended up okay for both of us.

I don’t know about “temperance” exactly — I just counted and we currently have bottles of 17 different kinds of rum. I think of my current attitude toward alcohol as respectful — both of its properties (good and bad) and my own physical and mental health. I don’t think there’s some magical balance, for me it’s mostly a matter of awareness. I try to only have drinks I actually want to drink. That by itself has a limiting tendency.

I dunno, there may indeed be something in the air, at least in America. Alcohol consumption is way down, especially compared to a peak-covid peak, and even that was mostly around people our (more or less old) age. There seems to be all sorts of concurrent health trends in the mix right now, from supplements to abstinence to all points in between, snakeoil to science. I suspect there may be a psychological component to it as well. When so much is out of our control, we embrace the elements of our lives that we can directly affect. For all I know this may be related to our increased interaction with various biometric measuring devices, too, watches and phones and other wearables that give us constant feedback and reminders about movement and health and fitness and whatever, not to mention the role of media (social or otherwise) the both circulates said trends and also serves as a constant reminder that, by any standard, alcohol is poison, lol.

deems's question is interesting. I can only speak personally, but the event that caused me to seek sobriety had me re-examining my past history with it and realizing that, with the exception of my early 30s, I've never had a good relationship with it.

All but one of my friends have a perfectly fine, healthy relationship with alcohol, one i wish I had because I already miss social drinking. When sticking to self-imposed limits, having drinks with friends was always a desired past-time and there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

But me, I have poor impulse control, which explains why I also fight a gambling addiction (and my sordid history posting here). And one of the things that made me rethink continuing to drink was examining past incidents in my life that proved that over 20+ years, I haven't had it under control. Memories such as:

-one of my community theater directors in my 20s emailing my friend to say she was worried about my excessive drinking after shows amd asking him to keep a close eye on me

-me driving intoxicated at 27, momentarily blacking out, waking up in time to avoid slamming into a parked fire truck

-Me throwing up on myself in my car on New Years 2012 (was not driving, went there to sit)

-me blacking out at a show waking up in a hospital covered in sick with no recollection of how I got there

-me getting into an angry drunken shouting match in 2023.

This is only a small selection, but any one of these things by themselves should have given me pause, but I kept on because I'd always issue the right teary-eyed testimonial about how this was a wakeup call and I was gonna get it right this time and every time...it lasted a month, tops.

So for me the only way to win is not to play. But I don't prescribe my way of living to everyone because I know plenty of people who don't have the problem with it that I do

I think there is a recognised trend of younger people not drinking, there are articles about this within the context of the US, UK and Japan (where the govt is actually doing "drink more, young people!" media campaigns, insane as that sounds - booze sector in real trouble).

That is quite separate from ILX though, where yeah I think the responses are mostly down to our aging demographics, ofc your relationship to alcohol is gonna get more fraught as health concerns take up a bigger part of your thoughts.

Also dunno about the left part. Certainly huge parts of the right into wellness these days.

Good point. I also have a fatty liver rn so that part too

For my part I have been too drunk to post a response

I think that the wellness stuff definitely comes from both sides— a lot of people simply aren't interested in losing themselves in drink any longer. The biggest problem that I see with this isn't that people aren't drinking, which is objectively a good thing no matter what anyone says, but that given the foreclosure of many common spaces, there simply aren't as many opportunities for people to engage in community activities and conversations outside the bar...particularly if you're not able to afford a gym membership, or aren't interested in that kind of thing. So what does this to community bonds?

Related to the wellness thing, though, is that after years of "dad bod" and "pro-fat" messaging, there is a documented backlash happening, wherein muscles are in and skinny is in— I don't think this is a great development, but it's definitely happening.

Body fascism always lurks around the edges of health and wellness movements, but I think the current iteration is to some degree a side effect of more people paying attention to weight and resistance training — which, as you say with the dip in alcohol consumption, is overall a good thing.

If it were not for my health trouble I would absolutely still be drinking.

Even my wife and friends will attest that I drank well: rarely to drunkenness, never embarrassing or dangerous. I felt charming snd funny when drinking.

I enjoyed every sip. I did good buzz maintenance; I paired wines with food. The activity felt classy. Used the right type of glass for the type of beverage. I owned - I kid you not - an absinthe spoon.

That's the shit I miss sometimes. But it's simply too bad for my body.

I think this year I will try to start doing some low impact fitness training. I think I’m tired of being the least fitness oriented person in my circles. Thinking crunches, pushups, simple stuff I already know how to do from military PT, and adding a joint supplement to my diet so my knees and hips maybe stop feeling like shit so much. AND maybe some time spent on fitness will cut down on time spent consuming double IPAs or whatever.

i don't go to the gym or have a fitness regime at all. i go for very long walks. the only other exercise i get is from drumming. yes, my knees suck. yes, estrogen has made my upper body so weak that i'm starting to think about lifting weights. but i really fucking hate the gym, talking about fitness at all, etc.

skinny being in is one of the worst things i can imagine

Spin classes supply a LOT of endorphins. Rowing machines great for tone all over.

Wikipedia is good for learning about this and that.

I owned - I kid you not - an absinthe spoon.

I can one-up this, we have spoons but also an absinthe fountain! Mostly decorative, not like we have a lot of absinthe parties.

But yeah, big fan of specific glassware and hardware for specific drinks and spirits.

Sigh. I just re-joined my local gym yesterday and got in a workout and I hate to admit that I did feel deliciously tired and glowy afterward. It's for my chronic pain and to keep me moving, to minimize the days I barely get off the couch because it just hurts less not to. I think I would get a lot of benefit from learning to lift but I don't know how to do anything & an open gym feels like not the place to start.

This is part of my plan to continue to reduce my drinking and still feel good about slowing down and relaxing at night so I can sleep. Because unfortunately as I've said before I love drinking but the health evidence particularly around cancer risk is getting harder to ignore. Plus it would improve my finances because I like nice wine.

Not to totally derail the drinking thread with exercise talk, but fwiw my wife got a lot of benefit from Casey Johnston's program: https://www.couchtobarbell.com/. It starts with home exercises, and then if/when you get comfortable with them you can move to the gym. She's now totally at home — more than me, lol — doing bench presses at the gym with all the muscle bros.

I joined one of the chain gyms.and it was the worst. No one returns their weights and everyone claiming all the squat racks and then socializing while you wait

im sniffing and sipping at a single barrel 12 year old scotch here and to reduce a marvel like it to a descriptor as basic as "poison" _is_ reductive and puritanical tbh.

or at least acknowledge that we could do the same with similar justification to any range of everyday pleasures that our doctors sould tell us aren't doing us any good were we to consume them in the wrong ratio or in a manner that we would know would be inadvisable

and if it needs saying- not to handwave away those who _know_ that the one drop is the one too many- its an addictive substance for many ppl ofc, im finding the rest of the discourse that doesn't touch on that the surprise

I am too -- in the sense that it's my fault for underestimating what a problem drink is for many ILXors.

I've been making these glib Negroni/martini cracks for years without realizing, hey, even one of these is for many of y'all.

I haaaaate exercise. The mindlessness of it. I stand there doing bicep curls or whatever and all I can think is "I just need to do 10 more of these and then I can go back to reading."

Or..you can read and walk or read and exercise. I do it every morning -- it's how I get the most reading done.

I think booze is a productive quilt button or nexus point for a bunch of negative behaviours - physical and mental - and provides a locus to work from. If it's over-coded as a cause, I can live with that for now. It 100% doesn't mean anyone else has to, of course.

Table raises a great point that goes beyond the subject of this thread: the need for more third spaces everywhere.

where are we at with elks lodge

Everyone’s different but a combination of a) squats/pushups/sit-ups etc and b) a good deal of walking can do wonders. You won’t look like a model, but you’ll feel a lot better, and see improvement in blood pressure.

I still third-space it up with my friends in bars and clubs and such, mostly doing music stuff, it's just with an NA can in hand. Some of the swankier brewpubs have an NA on tap, which would not have been the case 5 years ago.

yes but to table's point I believe "third spaces" are by definition spaces that do not require money to be there, e.g. parks, libraries, churches, etc

the corner stoop, etc

Not always:

Greeted by a standing ovation and steady roar of applause at Starbucks Leadership Experience 2025 in Las Vegas, chairman and ceo Brian Niccol and founder Howard Schultz reflected on the company’s legacy, its future and the enduring importance of Starbucks as a “third place” — a community hub where human connection thrives.

I think of third spaces as anywhere communal and lingering that aren't home and aren't work.

fair but

Ray Oldenburg observed that, while many third places such as public parks are completely free, they often tend to be commercial establishments. However, Oldenburg emphasized that chain establishments run by large corporations are "less hardy" third places than local, independently-owned establishments, as they divert (cash) flow away from the local community to distant owners.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place

Yeah my understanding of third places has always included bars and coffeeshops, although for sure local establishments are much more successful at that than corporate ones. That said, I once upon a time enjoyed getting a coffee and reading at Borders.

At least half of my third space work is at a Starbucks 1/8th of a mile from me.

here's my regular rah-rah post about exercise. raymond cummings is otm about squats, push-ups and situps. lunges are another really good option. add a little bit of weight with squats / lunges. your body soaks this stuff up. a little bit of resistance - bodyweight or some weights - does about a million great things for you. especially as you get older. movement is medicine. if you feel bored, ask yourself why. there is probably something you can do about it. make it social, gamify it. or go deeper into your body. consider dancing. make it expressive. great way to process emotions including anger. put your brain back into your body where it belongs. we are designed to move in physical space, we are not just brains in vats in front of computer screens.

weights have also met the desire i used to have in drinking a lot to obliterate myself. it is wild how i feel if i go for more than two days without touching weights. like i'm going to implode into dust. both weights and cardio generally make my sleep plentiful and heavenly.

Besides long daily walks, I do sit-ups, squats, and curls.

feel great

the need for more third spaces everywhere

Was thinking about this, and the best answer is indeed breakfast/coffee spots, but unfortunately it's hard to take good advantage of those spaces unless you're free or flexible in the morning. Still, a lot of coffee spots are open later and offer mocktails and other non-alcoholic options. Then there are libraries, parks, table-top game places (that apparently exist). My wife takes weekly walks with her friends that she finds refreshing. It's the friends you're hanging or talking with that are more important than the space you're doing it in, imo.

My local microbrewer also doubles as retail space for a local coffee roaster, a weekly bakery pop-up, and a occasional food truck. It's the only third-space here in town that's actually welcoming: the walls aren't plastered with televised sports, local musicians are encouraged to play there, inevitably someone has a nice dog you can say hi to, and there's never a side-eye if you just want to hang out and read a book and have a beer.

Which is kinda where I'm at with alcohol these days.

Hair of the inevitable dog?

you can all come hang out at my apartment, just gotta mind the dogs

love doggies

you can all come hang out at my apartment, just gotta mind the dogs

― brimstead, Sunday, July 6, 2025

Negronis for everyone!

I haaaaate exercise. The mindlessness of it. I stand there doing bicep curls or whatever and all I can think is "I just need to do 10 more of these and then I can go back to reading."

you’re not doing it right

I would like to be a long distance runner again. I was a wrestler in high school, then became a runner in college although I didn't have long enough legs to really compete. And a weightlifter in medical school and for most of my early middle age in a gay gym where everybody was weightlifting.

My knees started hurting when I was running in my 50s. I was told that that was normal by my orthopedist - that people who were young athletes were less likely to be able keep it up later on because of joint damage, and that people who started running in middle age did much better

A lot of posts here seem super abstract about this topic of alcohol consumption

I never had anything to drink for my whole 30-year career because it was very high stress and I couldn’t afford to, but since I’ve retired I’ve maybe gone too far over to excess alcohol consumption, just because I can. I’m realizing I have to curb it.

My recommendation to unperson is to put on a long ass jazz or metal song and dance to it

haha i mean it couldn't be a bad thing.

also my dude you live in montana! go hiking! then do squats and lunges and stretching to make the hiking better / easier.

yeah, when i lived in mountainous northern California, i was hiking nearly every day.

Shout out user boxedjoy, I knew some of what you posted already but I haven’t seen such a frank discussion about generational relationships to and entanglement with drink in a while

i just found out the other day that a childhood friend died, apparently of an overdose, a couple of years ago. he was one of my best pals at summer camp when we were both 12 but didn’t keep in touch for long after that. it didn’t come as much of a shock, he was self destructive already then. we snuck away for a cigarette once and got caught, they almost kicked us out of camp. i guess that’s a big deal when you’re 12. his little brother was terrified, in tears. one of the last times i saw him was the night jerry garcia died. we both resolved to get into the dead, and i went through a dead phase the following year, but it turns out he became a lifelong fan. i found his youtube channel, no uploads, just the sleep-aid playlists he'd used to quiet his mind. i know the pain. i discovered the deepest well of love for this kid that had been dormant and untapped, and it’s some of the most intense grief i have ever felt. grief for both of us. we were kindred spirits and it was a real 'there but for the grace of god moment’.
my immediate reaction was to mix a strong drink to shut myself down because i wanted to join him and because i wanted to celebrate him by harming myself.
i don’t drink often or habitually. i have little resistance to stress and i believed for some time that i mostly drink to manage fight or flight responses. but here, i understood that i drink because it’s poison, in the hopes that it will kill me. there’s an inbuilt futility, because i know that it isn’t going to actually kill me. i’m not really capable of drinking all that much at once. but that’s the instinct. it’s deliberate self-harm.
i’ve been thinking maybe his way is better. idk sometimes i wonder if sobriety is the right track, oblivion looks sweeter. i quit all my addictions, and most of the time it seems like it didn’t help anything. but shit, these wells are turning up all over the place.

I don't have anything to offer atm except that I appreciate you posting this.

Quitting addictions seems noble, but for some of us who have BTDT it isn't all "life is so much better sober!" That's just so reductive to me; my reality is much less simple.

You sound like a very thoughtful person Deflator; that has big hazards when there's occasion to look into the void. I hope you extend your compassion and love for this guy to yourself as well. Wanting to annihilate the self as an expression of grief seems pretty understandable to me. The thing is, oblivion isn't sweeter, it's nothing at all - can't go worse of course, but also can't go better, there's no "what's next". Your capacity for love and empathy demonstrates your value - I hope you have help or time to realise that.

Deep post, D-Mouse. I can relate hard, as I have those friends (and almost was that friend).

that i drink because it’s poison, in the hopes that it will kill me

There is something to this - part of the drive behind self-destructive behavior is to punish yourself, but another part is to show that you can withstand it and survive.

When I was young I read a lot of Desmond Morris (probably discredited and cornball by now). He writes that from an evolutionary biology perspective, boys do dangerous and goofy shit in front of girls because it is a sign of genetic fitness if you take risks but don't die.

For Morris we are all Tom Sawyer cartwheeling un front of Becky Thatcher. Keg stands, beer bongs, jello shots, speedballs: cartwheels for Becky's attention.

From another perspective: my father is a nasty alcoholic who repeatedly ruined his marriages, jobs, and social position.

So when I drank moderately, socially and for fun, it felt like a victory to show that I could dance with the same demon but keep my soul. I drank while also being a good father, a good husband, a good employee, a good friend, a good citizen. No crashed cars or jail time, no broken marriages, no estranged kids. Fuck you, old man: I'm stronger than you.

But I wasn't, and I got to spend a month staring at a hospital ceiling and slowly bleeding to death.

Tl;dr: Whether you drink because you think you're worthless or because you think you're invincible, the result is the same.

I’d add that one of the main reasons driving my own drinking, for many years, was perhaps related to the “invincibility” element but had a different sort of tenor: I hated society, I hated jobs, I hated what I saw (and still see!) as an elaborate fiction made to suppress our true purposes, so I drank to fuck off from that hatred, to “defy” society. Of course this was idiotic, in retrospect, since a pacified and drunk populace is to the benefit of those in power much of the time, but it made sense to me while I was engaging with it.

I am glad I learned that I can still loathe the world I was born into while finding my joy within it.

For Morris we are all Tom Sawyer cartwheeling un front of Becky Thatcher. Keg stands, beer bongs, jello shots, speedballs: cartwheels for Becky's attention.

From another perspective: my father is a nasty alcoholic who repeatedly ruined his marriages, jobs, and social position.

So when I drank moderately, socially and for fun, it felt like a victory to show that I could dance with the same demon but keep my soul. I drank while also being a good father, a good husband, a good employee, a good friend, a good citizen. No crashed cars or jail time, no broken marriages, no estranged kids. Fuck you, old man: I'm stronger than you.

ah now this i get (mum not dad, well not as much dad tbf)

I have articulated the "slow suicide" thoughts to trusted friends in the past and I can't deny it but let's just say booze is way more nuanced and complex than that, for me at any rate, a godless broken addict

I used to be quite the lush and now, maybe 1 drink (low alcohol spirits or a cider) a month. Okay I had a beer and a Paloma last month at a music festival. And when I drank a lot … the reasons changed over time tbh. I definitely had the self-destructive impulses when I was in my teens/early 20s, but it was kinda like a test? Can I survive this? Like wandering around at night totally wasted … can I get home in one piece? Then it evolved as a way to mask social anxiety. Then it was a way to throw off the shackles of responsibility. I had spent so much time cat-herding drunk people for work, after that role ended, I felt like it was my turn to be irresponsible. So many people I know have recently waxed nostalgic about the Occupy era, and my contribution to that trip down memory lane? I don’t remember. I didn’t protest or join cute leftist book clubs. I just got drunk and partied.

And in another thread I found a post of mine from 15 years ago about how I ended the night discreetly puking in a trash can. …

I support anybody in whatever route stops them feeling so shit, I think for me it's been a long slow process of getting bored

I'm giddily fresh on asda brand Rioja and a quantity of their 5.5%abv continental lager that is sold in mid-sized cans. going to do 4 days of sobriety mon-thurs to make up for unhealthy manic depressive self medication weekend. I'm fucked up enough to just need to drink some days and have to make an effort not to do it it every day!

xps It wasn’t suicide by small accumulated acts of self harm I was getting at- rather suicide postponement by a nonlethal means that achieves some vague approximation of death instantly, but in a nonbonding way. More nuanced? Yeah, booze is the most beautifully multifaceted gem.

i guess that’s the flipside to what YMP is saying (wrt Becky, i really think my friend legit wanted to fall off the edge, even when we were kids).

for some of us who have BTDT it isn't all "life is so much better sober!" That's just so reductive to me; my reality is much less simple.

for sure

Your capacity for love and empathy demonstrates your value - I hope you have help or time to realise that.

aw thanks! i do now, but i never have before. that’s for another thread tho.

i really think my friend legit wanted to fall off the edge, even when we were kids

Oh I relate to that too - the lure of the abyss was strong as fuck for Young Puffin.

In my 50s, I don't think I was trying to drink myself to death. I very much didn't want to die at that point. Not with a wife and children and a house and two cars. But it was also true that a life without pinot grigio wasn't something I was ready to contemplate.

For good or for ill, massive interal organ failure preempted the discussion and made everything starkly simple. Now all the nuances (as you put it) are just things to contemplate now.

but shit, these wells are turning up all over the place.

we encounter unbearable lodes of pain every day, and they accumulate the longer we live!

sometimes i just need to sob. it's better than not sobbing, sometimes - but it doesn't necessarily make me feel better - though sometimes it does.

aw thanks! i do now, but i never have before. that’s for another thread tho.

that's good. the uncontainable joy and the unbearable, wild grief. and then understanding that those same things are everywhere, in everyone. adventuring out there to see it, to let others know they aren't alone, that we're connected.

I stopped drinking in march of 2024. I was using it to manage anxiety and the downsides just weren’t compatible with my roles as a husband and a father.

A year and a half later, I am a little disappointed my life hasn’t improved more. I still feel tired and defeated a lot of the time, although I lost a bit of weight and physically am definitely healthier. But the issues in my personal life that fueled my drinking are still there. In a way everything is harder now.

The big challenge isn’t quitting substances, it i committing to staying present. And there are all kinds of reasons that is hard for people.

and even when you're staying present, it doesn't make the awful or hard shit go away either. it doesn't soften the blows.

one of the good things about drinking for me was that it was the perfect excuse to be silly, waste my time, really get into some music and feel my feelings, laugh and joke with my friends. after quitting, and this took a long time, but i slowly started being able to do those things while not drunk. just, like, at any time. and i started to realize that actually it's really important that i do those kinds of things as much as possible. so i joke around with my partner a lot, probably more than i ever have. i fuck off and allow myself to dilly dally and dream at work, to arrive late and leave early, as much as i can get away with without feeling like i'm jeopardizing my job. i'm like much more of a "bad boy" at work than when i used to drink on a weeknight and show up hungover or call in sick. i still call in sick but just because i want to and i have the whole day to myself. i waste a lot of time doing things i want to do that don't "make sense" according to some journey narrative or grade-progression outlook on life. in a sense, i think drinking was telling me that i needed to allow myself to be more selfish, not less!

it does still kind of blow me away or make me laugh that some days .. like maybe once a week on average .. i have a day where i wake up and just feel like absolute dogshit. physically everything is fine - i'm in great shape for 43 years old - my diet is solid - i'm doing all of the things i should do to keep my mental health up - meditate daily, run and lift weights, socialize, pet my cat, live within my means, give myself travel treats every now and then. but none of that matters. whatever laws that dictate the reality of the universe are just going to give me a day, once every 7 to 10 days, where i'm absolutely cratered. i like to think that experiencing the pits regularly allows me to appreciate the peaks. but i really don't know if that's true. i could stand to lose the pits. maybe that's the lesson ultimately, how on earth do you accept or even think that the lows are necessary.