Narnia

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I have been unfair to it and wish to read it again. mark sinker tell me why this is a good idea. also others.

― anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 28 November 2002 22:29 (twenty-three years ago)

It may be worth reading again so as to compare it to Philip Pullman's anti-religious His Dark Materials. But I am not Mark...

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 28 November 2002 22:35 (twenty-three years ago)

The Narnia books are brilliant. I've been meaning to re-read them for ages.

the big Narnia question: should you read the books in the order they were written, or in the order in which they are set? well? you tell me?

― DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 28 November 2002 23:46 (twenty-three years ago)

alphabetical order

ideally you should read the words in alphabetical order also

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 28 November 2002 23:48 (twenty-three years ago)

The only series of books that should be read in alphabetical order is Chandler's. Honestly.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 28 November 2002 23:49 (twenty-three years ago)

the big Narnia question: should you read the books in the order they were written, or in the order in which they are set? well? you tell me?

The order in which they were written. In the same manner, one shouldn't watch the material in Godfather I + II in time-order either.

― Joe (Joe), Friday, 29 November 2002 00:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I just started reading Magician's Nephew today. It's good but there's a little too much use of the all-knowing author's voice ("If vacuum cleaners had been invented in those days Polly would have thought it was the sound of a Hoover") for my taste. I reread The Hobbit earlier this year and was heartbroken to discover how much of that annoying "And now you know quite enough to go on with" kind of stuff was in there.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 29 November 2002 02:31 (twenty-three years ago)

the narnia books were my favourites when i was little, but i dont know what i might make of them now. i want to read them to my boy when he is older, so i hope i can enjoy them again and not be disappointed or irritated by them.

― donna (donna), Friday, 29 November 2002 04:21 (twenty-three years ago)

well, don't start with the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, it's the least satisfying one for this grown-up. I think the Magician's Nephew - as well as being the first in the order in which they are set - is great: dark, shadowy, visionary. But my favourite is Dawn Treader: for me the last 3 chapters are as good as T S Eliot, or Hafez, or St John's Gospel. Well, nearly. The Silver Chair is also good, and the Last Battle not bad, though the philosophizing gets a bit paper thin. I could live without the others, especially the dodgy Horse and His Boy.

― jon (jon), Friday, 29 November 2002 08:11 (twenty-three years ago)

The christian parable subtext to the Narnia series makes them unreadable for me, despite CS's immense talent.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 29 November 2002 08:16 (twenty-three years ago)

I liked that voice as a child Justyn and don't mind it now. As a precocious reader I liked the feeling there was some invisible narrator looking out for my interests!

Polyphonic there's a good thread about that somewhere. The summary: judging by the sample of readers who post to ILX, Narnia-as-parables are at best completely ineffective and at worst entirely counter-productive. The atheist can read them with conscience clear - if yr objection is the specific aesthetics of the parable-making then absolutely fair enough.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 29 November 2002 10:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think the stories were written as parables, but as stories. because CSL was very christian it all kind of drifts in, but I don't think it's meant didactically. I can't think of any bits in the books where it is annoyingly religious in a bad way.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 29 November 2002 10:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't really understand why people have such a violent reaction against the Christian bits. Is it because they don't get the allusions?

Personally, Narnia books helped me understand Christianity when I was a child, and coming to terms with the fact that Narnia wasn't real was good practice when the time came to abandon religion a few years later.

― Sam (chirombo), Friday, 29 November 2002 10:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Admittedly, I haven't read them since I was twelve. I remember that when I finished the final book, when I read Aslan's words "you will know me in your world by another name," or something to that effect, it really pissed me off. That being said, I was a pretty hardcore atheist when I was 12, so maybe I should re-read them again.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 29 November 2002 10:40 (twenty-three years ago)

(I hasten to add that wasn't why I read them.)

― Sam (chirombo), Friday, 29 November 2002 10:45 (twenty-three years ago)

"I can't think of any bits in the books where it is annoyingly religious in a bad way"

Errr, DV, the whole of the end of 'Voyage of the Dawn Treader when they're sailing through, like 'The Elysian Fields' and meet, like, a little LAMB that is also Aslan and stuff...? I found it confusing when I first read it, because of being brought up completely heathen, but discovered the (not really SUB)text pretty soon after. And found it annoyingly transparent and useless as a narrative device.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Friday, 29 November 2002 11:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Read them in the order in which they come to hand. Mark S has already made a funnier and truer comment than this.

― alext (alext), Friday, 29 November 2002 11:46 (twenty-three years ago)

For some reason, we have a copy of The Magician's Nephew sat around in the office. Maybe I should reread it.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 29 November 2002 11:50 (twenty-three years ago)

They didn't have the Voyage of the Dawn Treader in our local library, so I don't consider it to be canonical Narnia.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 29 November 2002 12:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Having reread The Magician's Nephew in my lunch break: I'd not realised when I first read it (being quite young at the time, natch) that it was written as a period piece, full of Victorian/Edwardian London, cheerful cockney cab drivers and all. Lots of "You won't know about this, but I remember it" and "much nicer than the ones we get nowadays".

Also - lots of implicit sexism. The magician tricks Polly into going off into another universe so he can guilt-trip Digory into Being The Man and rescuing her. And so on.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 29 November 2002 14:20 (twenty-three years ago)

How is that sexist?

― Sam (chirombo), Friday, 29 November 2002 14:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, the characters stick very much to traditional gender roles. Of course, you can probably point out that for fiction set about 100 years ago that's probably quite realistic.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 29 November 2002 14:29 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think the stories were written as parables, but as stories. because CSL was very christian it all kind of drifts in, but I don't think it's meant didactically.

That was Lewis's defense in his essays. I think he honestly thought that the Christian story was a GOOD STORY, one of his very favorites in all the ways stories can be good. He incorporated it because he loved the story and because it was the entire foundation of his morality and his worldview, so even if he hadn't used such overt symbols it still probably would have ended up being a Christian story.

Whenever I say that in Lewis's defense, though, my dad says, "Oh yeah? Tolkein was responsible for Lewis's conversion, and he managed to write good fantasy that wasn't so annoying and obvious." Having not read LOTR (but intending to, I swear!) I can't answer.

I haven't read the Narnia books since elementary school. I disliked the middle few books. I wonder what I'd think now.

― Maria (Maria), Saturday, 30 November 2002 05:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Tolkien also despised the Narnia series, reportedly. He wasn't much for allegory, though he may also have been a bit envious that CSL wrote all six books in less than half the time he took to write LOTR.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 30 November 2002 10:26 (twenty-three years ago)

"not another fucking elf."

or: didn't Lewis hate at least some aspects of LotR, too?

What's weird is that I've read both these more than once and I don't know anything at all about the other Inklings. I don't even know their names. (I am assuming that some existed.)

― thom west (thom w), Saturday, 30 November 2002 11:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Charles Williams was another inkling

i know zero abt him

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 30 November 2002 11:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Isabel's grandad was a fringe inkling (outside the top 50 inkling posters I'd guess) and invented the word "psephology".

― Tom (Groke), Saturday, 30 November 2002 11:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Mark: the Yorkshire comedian who presented The Golden Shot? Also, and rather more seriously, I have no inkling as to what an inkling is.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 30 November 2002 12:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Tolkien was Robert Smith to Lewis's Morrissey.

N.B. This is not true.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 30 November 2002 12:48 (twenty-three years ago)

what is an inkling?

― Maria (Maria), Saturday, 30 November 2002 22:36 (twenty-three years ago)

= o.g. lit-club ilxer

― s trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 30 November 2002 22:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I remember that I told my younger sister that Tumnus (the faun in TLTHATW) was gay. Because he liked to shop and dance, and because he was so fussy about his interior design and his appearance. It was all made up, of course, though maybe Tumnus is supposed to be gay?!?!

My favorite was Prince Caspian, FWIW. It's been years since I've read these things, though.

― Tad (llamasfur), Saturday, 30 November 2002 22:57 (twenty-three years ago)

info on inklings

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 30 November 2002 22:59 (twenty-three years ago)

one of the books lucy sees in tumnus's bookcase = "nymphs and their ways" = tumnus is not gay

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 30 November 2002 23:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I once started reading a novel by Charles Williams in which the main characters had died and were slowly realising that they were dead and were walking around London and being acknowledged by absolutely no-one. That it took some time for them to realise their predicament was doubtless because this is exactly what happens to most city-dwellers most of the time.

I seem to remember that the preface/intro was written by one Owen Barfield, another Inkling, and a prominent Anthroposophist. I like the way both Williams and Barfield seem to take the existence of metaphysical realities as a given rather than pansying around with empty theological rhetoric (Aleister Crowley is another writer who shares this trait). One rather gets the impression that they knew what they were talking about, but I may be utterly mistaken.

Don't ask me why I didn't finish the book. Sheer laziness I expect.

― chris sallis, Saturday, 30 November 2002 23:20 (twenty-three years ago)

oh by the way anthony i read all the narnia books except dawn treader and horse & his boy while i was home for thanksgiving and theyre still beautiful as ever!!

― s trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 30 November 2002 23:26 (twenty-three years ago)

trife = a telmarine

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 30 November 2002 23:30 (twenty-three years ago)

mark you remind me of shift

― s trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 30 November 2002 23:42 (twenty-three years ago)

But who is Reepicheep?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 30 November 2002 23:50 (twenty-three years ago)

ned youre peter and im edmund!!

― s trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 1 December 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i liked Nikabrik, the "evil" Black Dwarf. i guess he was supposed to be the angry, impatient "Socialist" in Lewis's allegorical world?

― Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 1 December 2002 00:04 (twenty-three years ago)

aslan: relaxing at home

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 1 December 2002 00:10 (twenty-three years ago)

I liked A Horse And His Boy a lot. Some of it is very funny (or was when I was small), and to the extent that there is Christian stuff in it, it's nice Christian stuff about how it's a good idea to be considerate of other people.

It is terrible that no one has mentioned Pauline Baynes' illustrations yet, as they are top.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Sunday, 1 December 2002 00:17 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.hbook.com/art/lionwitch.gif

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 1 December 2002 00:24 (twenty-three years ago)

one of the books lucy sees in tumnus's bookcase = "nymphs and their ways" = tumnus is not gay

the beard, Narnian-style ;-p

― Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 1 December 2002 00:34 (twenty-three years ago)

i also imagined that Tumnus looked an awful lot like either Jeff Lynne or Brad Delp. which doesn't answer definitively his sexual preference, of course.

― Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 1 December 2002 00:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Tumnus singing "More Than a Feeling" = apocalypse

ned youre peter and im edmund!!

Hey! I'm a wolf-killer and you eat candies.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 1 December 2002 00:47 (twenty-three years ago)

ned the wolf-slayer or (better still) THE BEAST-MASTER!

Tumnus singing "More Than a Feeling" = apocalypse

No Sta-Pufft Marshmallows for you!

― Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 1 December 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Being a godless savage, the Christianity when I read it (around 4th grade?) both confused and frightened me (a lot of Christian imagery scared me: a pic of Christ wearing the crown of thorns, a short story with a kid (who's rilly Jesus in disguise!) who gets stigmata -- you know, the one with the statue). I can't say exactly what scared me about the religion, but I'm guessing it has to do with the emphasis on suffering. And nailing one's god onto a cross. It sounds like a faith Klingons would like.

― Leee (Leee), Sunday, 1 December 2002 01:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Pop music for religions:

Christianity - Industrial / Goth (or indiepop for the wooly Anglican version)
Judaism - Stadium rock
Islam - Hip-hop
Hinduism - Teen pop

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 1 December 2002 01:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Buddhism - Southern rock

― A Nairn (moretap), Sunday, 1 December 2002 22:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Nick were you there when we worked out the religious history of the world as described by rock genre? I can't remember who was part of this incredible philosophical excursion. It was at an FAP and Graham foxed us with talk of Helen Love.

― Tom (Groke), Sunday, 1 December 2002 23:05 (twenty-three years ago)

knowing the religious connections of narnia ruined the books for me a bit. I re-read them over the summer, and I ended up being too preoccupied to draw the parallels between religion and the story to appreciate the rest of the book, and enjoy it as I had done when i was little

― jellybean (jellybean), Monday, 2 December 2002 00:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I went through a phase of Narnia-hata-contraryism after getting into the Philip Pullman stuff, aged 14 (I think), which is bugging me now because I know I had some kind of sense of wonder from the books when I was younger - my copies are more or less read to death - but a phase of taking the religious aspect as somehow Wrong seems to have obliterated the memory of why I loved them..

I'm going to have to reread them, I think.

Who remembers the TV series? Those I had on tape. I don't remember much except that the first one had A REAL LION, which was great..

― thom west (thom w), Monday, 2 December 2002 02:58 (twenty-three years ago)

I was not there Tom. Graham is v.foxy.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 2 December 2002 08:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Philip Pullman hates Narnia like I hate indie.

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 2 December 2002 08:58 (twenty-three years ago)

calormene guilt!!

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 2 December 2002 09:36 (twenty-three years ago)

TLTHATW

Jadis = Christopher Hitchens?

― Sam (chirombo), Monday, 2 December 2002 10:09 (twenty-three years ago)

is jadis also the white witch? i've always assumed she is, but is this on any textual basis?

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 2 December 2002 10:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Er, I would like to say obv, but suddenly you have made me doubt this. Although I'm sure this is at least implied at the end of TMN.

― Sam (chirombo), Monday, 2 December 2002 11:14 (twenty-three years ago)

"Also - lots of implicit sexism. The magician tricks Polly into going off into another universe so he can guilt-trip Digory into Being The Man and rescuing her. And so on."

Umm Caitlin, Digory points out to his uncle that this is rub ect. at the time. Noting that people are societally expected to act in certain ways != sexism on Lewis' part. Far from it, in fact.

Am sure that Jadis is the Witch. It would be needless complication if it were a different powerful tall mental woman accidentally released into Narnia (or 'Eden' in allegorical terms) as its resident demon. And it all follows on - she 'plants' the iron bar from the London lamp-post and it grows into a new one. Circle of wotsit, innit.

Earrrgh those bleedin' TV adaptations of my favourite things. They will keep on doing them WRONG. Apart from Gormenghast which was made more obv. but not too badly. TLTWATW was k-rub, mainly because they made Lucy the most annoying girl in the world with buck teeth and other horridness. Lion was animatronic for the most part, I recall.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Monday, 2 December 2002 13:01 (twenty-three years ago)

I went to see the musical of TL,TW&TW at Sadler's Wells last Christmas and their Tumnus was very, very camp indeed. He wouldn't stop prancing.

― Madchen (Madchen), Monday, 2 December 2002 13:13 (twenty-three years ago)

wasn't there also some brief bit in TLTWATW about the White Witch (a/k/a Jadis) being a descendant of Lilith (ergo, not human)?

― Tad (llamasfur), Monday, 2 December 2002 13:17 (twenty-three years ago)

aslan: relaxing at home

he's not a tame lion, you know ...

― Tad (llamasfur), Monday, 2 December 2002 13:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Well Jadis is pre-creation in Narnian terms and is I suppose an 'alien' so not-human. Don't remember the Lilith thing.

Assuming Jadis and the White Witch are the same (can't check) - is the witch in Silver Chair a supposed relation? She's described as being of the same 'type' - but given Jadis' origins how can this be?

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 2 December 2002 13:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Am I imagining that Jadis (and hence maybe the Green Witch) are described as being related to the Giants? In any case, Aslan does put J in a certain "box" at some stage in TMN. And it isn't a human box.

I have just realised that my brother got the Narnia books so I can't check at home. Boo.

― Sam (chirombo), Monday, 2 December 2002 13:49 (twenty-three years ago)

come to think of it ... i think the reference in TLTWATW was that the White Witch was descended from "Adam's other wife." Which would be Lilith, I think (does someone here know anything about Jewish/kabbalist mythology?), but I don't remember if C.S. Lewis actually said "Lilith."

Besides, maybe the Silver Chair witch -- or her descendants -- also hopped into the Narnia pond in the Wood Between the Worlds (a great concept, BTW). Or because she's a witch, she came from God knows where and just sorta ended up in Narnia -- she could have just as easily ended up in Newcastle or Nebraska for all anyone knows.

― Tad (llamasfur), Monday, 2 December 2002 14:09 (twenty-three years ago)

One thing that's started to nag at me: which was written first, The Magician's Nephew or The Last Battle? I'm sure that in the latter some of the characters try to reach Narnia by digging up the magician's rings - but they are killed in a train crash before they can use them.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 2 December 2002 14:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Lilith is mentioned, I'm sure. "Type" might refer to behaviour rather than species.

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 2 December 2002 14:16 (twenty-three years ago)

I was always annoyed that in The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe those three things turn up in the opposite order in the story to the title. (ie it should be called The Wardrobe, The Witch and The Lion).

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 2 December 2002 14:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Caitlin: http://www.aslan.demon.co.uk/narnia.htm

― Sam (chirombo), Monday, 2 December 2002 14:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah, I see. For some reason I had the idea that The Magician's Nephew has been written last.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 2 December 2002 14:41 (twenty-three years ago)

first mention of "Jadis" in TLTW&TW:

"The former occupant of these premises, the Faun Tumnus, is under arrest and awaiting his trial on a charge of High Treason against her Imperial Majesty Jadis, Queen of Narnia, Chatelaine of Cair Paravel, Empress of the Lone Islands, etc., also of comforting her said Majesty's enemies, harbouring spies and fraternizing with Humans.
signed MAUGRIM, Captain of the Secret Police
LONG LIVE THE QUEEN!"

blimey this is good.

― thom west (thom w), Tuesday, 3 December 2002 00:41 (twenty-three years ago)

also:

"That's what I don't understand, Mr Beaver," said Peter, "I mean isn't the Witch herself human?"
"She'd like us to believe it," said Mr Beaver, "and it's on that that she bases her claim to be Queen. But she's no Daughter of Eve. She comes of your father Adam's" - (here Mr Beaver bowed) - "your father Adam's first wife, her they called Lilith. And she was one of the Jinn. That's what she comes from on one side. And on the other she comes of the giants. No, no, there isn't a drop of real human blood in the Witch."

― thom west (thom w), Tuesday, 3 December 2002 00:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks thom!

― Sam (chirombo), Tuesday, 3 December 2002 09:58 (twenty-three years ago)

I read about a stage production of TLTW&TW, which really went for the whole wartime aspect of the book. Like, the children are out in the professor's place because they've been evacuated, and Narnia is under occupation, like France was.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 3 December 2002 11:26 (twenty-three years ago)

two years pass...

http://www.apple.com/trailers/disney/thechroniclesofnarnia/

:(((

― fe zaffe (fezaffe), Thursday, 7 July 2005 18:58 (twenty years ago)

Don't quite get your sorrow -- if that's the same trailer that's been in the theaters it looked pretty good to me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

Does the phrase "From the director of Shrek" mean nothing to you?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:03 (twenty years ago)

But..Tilda Swinton. Tilda Swinton!
I got a poster for this at the marketing booth at ALA and they seem to be handling it well, stressing the religious themes and not going for the rockem-sockem Mr. Tumnus action figures.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

I hope the animals at least wear clothing.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

they seem to be handling it well, stressing the religious themes

this could be a problem

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

I guess I mean more that they are not shying away from them. Narnia has always been an obvious allegory and unless they seriously deconstruct the story they can't lose those elements.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

Also, WETA.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

i've always hated the narnia books.

― latebloomer: the Clonus Horror (latebloomer), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:23 (twenty years ago)

"Do you like Turkish Delight, little boy?"

― Tigerstyle Shamanic Vision Quester (sexyDancer), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:25 (twenty years ago)

I just reread The Voyage of the Dawn Treader and it's probably my favorite.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 7 July 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

Does the phrase "From the director of Shrek" mean nothing to you?

I found Shrek to be rather well directed.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 7 July 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

TVOTDT is probably the best (by far the best of the BBC TV adaptations, certainly), but my personal favourite has generally been "The Last Battle", particularly the first 3/4. Shift and Puzzle, ah... and Tashlan... it's really quite darkly comic and has a bleakly apocalyptic feel - Narnia being subjugated and industrialised, even! And then there's CSL's pious stuff about Susan not 'being a friend of Narnia' anymore, being more interested in boys and stuff - pop culture and the like. Michael Bracewell weaved this telling aside into "England is Mine" rather well, I do recall.

I used to have - maybe still do somewhere - these excellent talking-book readings by Michael Hordern, with Marisa Robles harp and flute music behind him. An excellent way to experience them, Hordern having just the right august tones.

― Tom May (Tom May), Friday, 8 July 2005 00:18 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

Brian Cox as the voice of Aslan. I would be looking forward to this a lot more if it was Ron Perlman :)

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 18 August 2005 08:30 (twenty years ago)

did ilm kind of start around kid-lit enthusiasm as much as music? i used to be more hostile towards it, now it's just uncomprehension.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 18 August 2005 08:38 (twenty years ago)

ile threads about kid-lit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 99.9 percent of ilm threads about music

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 18 August 2005 08:54 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

Saw the Narnia trailer last weekend.

Am I right to feel TEH PH3AR? I know it's just a big opportunity for all the rights-holders to hoover up any stray dollars LOTR left on the table but I feel extra-prickly about Xtian propaganda these days, however crypto or likely to be elided in the name of good family entertainment...

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:23 (twenty years ago)

CS Lewis can't be held responsible for Dobson dribbling on about 'the message.'

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

OMG A NAIRN I JUST GOT IT I'M SO DUMB

― beanz (beanz), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

ned youre peter and im edmund!!

This is one of my favorite comments ever. Cheers Mr. Trife!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:29 (twenty years ago)

Xtian propaganda these days

uhm, you do remember what C.S. Lewis was like, right? sure, the story certainly had allegory, but there's no way in fuck that it should be considered anywhere in the same category as serialized shit like Left Behind.

― kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

I guess in a weird way Left Behind bothers me less because there's nothing crypto about it. And b/c it's technically clumsy in the way of all airport thrillers.

Whereas iirc Narnia enchants, delights, and beguiles. As I suggest, my issue is less with the source or with the current project (which is driven by PROFOUNDLY secular ends) than with the timing. I'm feeling pretty beset these days what with the passions of the intelligent design0rz and the general cockiness and muscle-flexing and forcing-it-on-the-rest-of-usitude of the xtian right in general (vis. the current case before the Supremes).

Which makes me more cynical than I'd like to be about robust, noble, gorgeously backlit golden lions with flowing manes. Is all.

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

robust, noble, gorgeously backlit golden lions with flowing manes

Why thank you.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

Narnia pwned my childhood.

― jeffrey (johnson), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)

I guess in a weird way Left Behind bothers me less because there's nothing crypto about it. And b/c it's technically clumsy in the way of all airport thrillers.

wait, so the only measure here is how ostensibly hidden the efforts at proselytzing the reader? it's all a matter of overtness?

― kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

It's been asserted often enough on ILX, probably on this thread, that as Christian propaganda Narnia is a devastating failure - I've no doubt that the films will be too on this front, if handled well.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 16:33 (twenty years ago)

Brian Cox as the voice of Aslan It's been confimed as Liam Neeson now.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

Brian Blessed should be in it. As Reepicheep.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

rip pauline baynes :(

http://www.dnwfriends.nzl.org/dnwbooks/imagesnba8/magiciannephew.jpg

― thomp, Thursday, 7 August 2008 06:54 (seventeen years ago)

Very sad. :-( Also Tolkien's favorite illustrator of his work. A full life lived, though.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 7 August 2008 07:01 (seventeen years ago)

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