the simpsons' peak period - can we have some consensus please ?

series 7 = still classic, has bart sells his soul, selma marries troy maclure, lisa gets cool friends at the beach
series 8 = still classic moments, has the treehouse of horror with the little world growing on lisa's tooth + bill clin-ton & bob-dole, but this could be the beginning of the end
series 9 = hmm

so series 7 should still be included in the golden age - call it 2-8.

-all treehouse of horror episodes
-when lisa becomes a veggie ('why is it talking to me in a lamb's voice?')
-homer vs. nyc (try seeing that one nowadays in US syndication!!!)

keep in mind even bad simpsons is better than most other good tv.

Watching new Simpsons episodes is painful because it reminds me how great the show once was. That is why I don't anymore.

So true. The first two series are good, but series three is where it came into it's own. I'd say series 3 through 7 is the peak. From then on in, it's been a steady decline. The last few new ones i've seen are so bad, it's almost painful to watch. Episodes like the one where Marge gets Mafia help to sell pretzels - in season 8 - are where the rot set in.

that 'Apu has an affair' one was rubbish...utterly pointless and illogical

and fletrejet is otm about the self-reference. the simpsons is the most self-aware show on tv and that used to be great...but its just boring and unfunny now. i saw one not too long ago where Carl actually talks to camera...thats a cardinal sin!

Justification for post season 8 episodes: BEHIND THE LAUGHTER.

There's still one great joke per episode at least.

and the 'its a cartoon, doesnt have to be realistic' excuse would be okay except The Simpsons was originally very much rooted in reality and obeyed the laws of that generally with obvious exceptions (Treehouse Of Horror) but they abandoned that years ago...sure Homer going into space isnt realistic but it was still physically possible! unlike that episode where Homer n Marge win the dancing contest after he spins her on her hair and stuff...yeurgh...

"this 'new episodes aren't as great but still better than anything else on TV' excuse is feeble and HAS TO STOP. i can name at least 37 programmes that are currently funnier and more entertaining than The Simpsons"

Yes. Maybe that excuse was valid for the episodes shortly after series 8, but the newest ones are atrocious by ANY standard, not just compared to the old classics.

I just hope syndication avoids these copious duds.

That was actually the best of the recent episodes I've seen. But still nothing special.

right now they are broadcasting the earliest episodes, which is a shame, but they have broadcast, say 100+ i think (my brother would know more abt this since he has taped every episode shown on the bbc.

http://snpp.com/episodeguide/season11.html

it was run here last week

Season 4 is the best of the ones released on DVD thus far, but my fave episode comes from season 8 (Marge Be Not Proud). My 2nd fave ep is season 4 though (Last Exit Springfield).

I'll take well thought out flashbacks and fantasies over big plot concepts (Homer as an astronaut, monorials, etc).

Basically, if George Meyer ain't in the rewrite room, the new staff goes for the cheap shots.

snpp.com/episode guide

Except that's season 7.

season 10 has the last really classic episode (lisa cheats on a test, homer gets a pet lobster), at least.

D'oh!

Okay, for season 8, allow me this quote:

"like, we tried nothin' man and we're all out of ideas!"

http://us.tv1.yimg.com/tv.yahoo.com/images/he/photo/tv_pix/fox/the_simpsons/_group_photos/nancy_cartwright24.jpg

B-b-b-but he spelled Yale with a 7.

Welcome to ILX...I mean, the internet...I mean, human interaction.

FUCK SEASON 11 AND BEYOND.

Yeah, but 8 has great stuff. I'd happily watch any of the 9 ones again, but probably not again after that for a long time (Exception: the New York episode, which I've already seen too many times, though I'm not sure I saw it twice.)

Bart the Mother (#5F22 / SI-922) 27 Sep 1998
Bart accidentally kills a mother bird with Nelson Muntz's bee-bee gun, and tries his best to raise the mother's eggs on his own. But when the hatchlings turn out to be a pair of destructive lizards that harvest nests for their own survival, the town's bird population is placed at great risk. Guest voice Phil Hartman, in his final speaking role on The Simpsons.

The fall of Troy (McClure) = the fall of the Simpsons

-- Trayce (spamspanke...), September 13th, 2005.]

that is incredibly stupid

Some a.t.s. readers have attributed this quote to George Burns and Gracie Allen, as some kind of old vaudeville routine. Others have speculated that it is the type of thing you would hear an old gossipy housewife use on a 1950s sitcom and that Bart's use of it is the joke, much like his use of Cockney phrases or those of an 1890s prospector. Consarnit.

One fan reports to have also heard the phrase on a 1995 Monty Python CD-ROM game.

But the mystery of the actual reference has been revealed at last - or at least it seems - by a reader named Funkychuck: "It's actually from [the book] The Great Gatsby. The main character meets these two women who are already deep in conversation and the one says 'so I says to Mabel, I says' as he walks in. They have a short, pointless back and forth, the main character leaves, and the lady resumes the conversation with the same line over again. I'm not 100% on this, but I had just read the book when that episode aired and I remember feeling quite smart at having caught such an obscure reference. Unless I'm completely wrong, in which case I can resume feeling stupid. Hope this helps!"

Vacation episodes for cliche culture jokes = dud.

Overlooking nuances built into characters over 10 years = dud.

I'm done whining...sorry all, this subject is my lone sore spot, so I really should (and will) sign off now.

See this is why I hate these arguments. What is stupid? Why? Explain - and convince me.

thats the stupid part. hope I cleared things up! :o)

classics from Season 11:

Brother's Little Helper (#AABF22 / SI-1022) 3 Oct 1999
When Bart is hastily diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder, he becomes the latest victim of "Focusin," a new drug touted to boost academic attention spans. Guest starring Mark McGwire as himself.

E-I-E-I-(ANNOYED GRUNT) (#AABF19 / SI-1019) 7 Nov 1999
Homer and family move to an old farm where he and Bart conjure up "Tomacco," an incredibly addictive cross between Tobacco and Tomatoes. Guest starring The B-52's (end credits theme) and Frank Welker as the barnyard animals.

Missionary: Impossible (#BABF11 / SI-1111) 20 Feb 2000
Homer becomes a missionary on a remote, tropical island as part of his effort to evade the local PBS affiliate's pledge drive collection officials. Guest starring Betty White as herself.

Bart to the Future (#BABF13 / SI-1113) 19 Mar 2000
While visiting an Indian casino with his family, Bart encounters an Indian who foretells of his future. Bart learns that in the future he is a ne'er-do-well musician with Ralph Wiggum as a room mate. He goes to see Lisa to borrow money, but Lisa has her own problems, being the newly-elected President of the United States and facing a tax crisis.

I suspect that SNPP is not exactly snopes.com on this subject, though Google certainly thinks it is.

quote:

Bart: There's something different about you, Dad.
Fake Homer: [german accent] I am a new tie wearing.

season two is still the best, and i'm not up on the new season, but i don't think it's time for them to quit yet.

No. It is a scientific fact that when Bart and/or Lisa see their future, the episode sucks.

Exact moment the series jumped the shark: the episode when Principal Skinner explicitly announces "I'm a virgin." Well, no shit. There's nothing worse than having contempt for your audience.

Homer: [takes the Virtual Fudge wire out of his mouth, which
shocks him] Oh, what a bleak and horrible future we live
in!
Bart: Don't you mean, "present?"
Homer: Right, right, present.

and

Lisa: The country is broke? How can that be?
Milhouse: Well, remember when the last administration decided
to invest in our nation's children? Big mistake.

It is a scientific fact that when Bart and/or Lisa see their future, the episode sucks.

Indeed.

The Correct answer to this question is "Seasons 2, 3, and 4."

Exactly. Except, they are usually classic.

LISA'S WEDDING

BART TO THE FUTURE

It's comforting to know that after 2.5 years, ILX is still wrong.

Leeee I love you pls have my kiddies that I dont even want anyway, thankyew.

I'd like to know what people thought of the Simpsons if they saw it the way we see it in Aus - every weeknight at 6pm is an episode repeated, and at least once a week theres also a new ep, or a newer one (which means one night has maybe 3 eps). So I've probably seen, btwn that and my DVDs, more Simpsons than a lot of people here. And while I agree earlier stuff was on the whole better, I still dont get the point of starting these arguments. Do people argue about the Flintstones jumping the shark?

I watched it pretty much every day on Sky for six years! The daily episodes were random and there would be a new one or two every Sunday usually, sometimes with gaps to allow them to stock up for new ones as they emerged. I'd watch the weekly BBC showing if it was a good one. I've not really watched it since it moved to Channel 4, but I'll still watch it on Sky now and then.

umm, sorry trayce i asked it almost 3 years ago!

so...can we have consensus now (ducks).

Americans actually do get the chance to see Simpsons on a daily basis; thanks to the magic of syndication, any given market will air 1 to 3 episodes per night (currently, my area has 2 per night, I believe). The problem is that the pool of episodes from which stations choose seems to have narrowed a tonne: "Seymour's Sense of Snow," for instance, probably aired 3 times in 6 weeks. I suspect that the Simpsons poobahs were afraid of poaching DVD sales if they re-aired golden oldies.

And I just had my third most brilliant idea ever (which also is my second worst idea ever): Pynchon should be hired as a writer on the show!

It does seem though that, throughout these nerdliest of arguments, nobody seems to really care to defend seasons 12-present, which, I do say my good man, is close to being "consensus".

many-x-post Leeeeee, those are great moments from those 2 episodes.

In Missionary Impossible, they are about to be crushed by burning timbers, and then a Fox pledge drive cuts in, Bart calls in a huge pledge, and the ending lines are

Rupert Murdoch: You saved my network!
Bart: Wouldn't be the first time.

The best has yet to come.

More promotional ‘Simpsons’ shorts will be coming to Disney+ throughout the year. All of them will pay homage to some of Disney’s top brands and Disney+’s most popular shows.

Source: https://t.co/c3WQdQBBha pic.twitter.com/lPm8WSvj6x

— Cartoon Crave (@thecartooncrave) May 3, 2021

make purchase of the merchandise

Why did i used to write like a 13 year old texting one handed on a bicycle?

Just read a great long interview with John Swartzwelder in the NYer this morning. Laughed very hard at this bit:

Do you remember the first funny thing you wrote?

I do, mostly because the reaction I got to it was so startling. I had just learned how to form letters into words, so I decided to write a play. The only thing I remember about the play itself, except for the last two lines, is that it was hilarious. But, when I read it aloud to my family, it got no laughs! Just supportive smiles and nods. I didn’t get it.

But then I got to the second-to-last line, which was supposed to set up the big joke at the end. The setup line was: “This play has been brought to you by the Trash Can Airplane Company,” which—since this was Boeing country—got a huge, possibly undeserved, laugh. Baffled, but feeling that I finally had my audience in the palm of my hand, I leaned back and practically screamed the big finish: “P.S. It stinks!!!” More supportive smiles and nods. Plainly, there was a trick to comedy, and I didn’t know what it was.

Do you know what the trick is now?

No. “P.S. It stinks!!!” should have gotten a laugh. I don’t get it.

I'm sure something similar was said somewhere upthread, but I really feel like what the Simpsons lost after its "classic" years was more its emotional center than its humor. Without that, the constant absurdist jokes started to feel decadent and the cynicism started to feel aimless.

I've always maintained that the Simpsons just slowed down in how quickly they pummelled you with jokes. Like they just left more room to breathe and think and "get it". The only show post-Simpsons that I think even approached that energy was 30 Rock.

Like if this bit from a season 18 episode was in a season 9 episode, I don't imagine it would have had the second part explaining the joke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q34Qxl5HINg

I remember feeling very distinctly at the time that the show finally became irrevocably unmoored when Kid Rock and Joe C guest-starred, and I think I'd stand by that assessment today.

I like that

I'm going thru the seasons chronologically and I'm at 8 now. Some great episodes in it but last night I watched the 1st one where I really did not like Homer. Because he was TOO stupid, plus was being an asshole. It was "A Milhouse Divided". Obv overall it was a slow slide into shittiness for the series but the 2 minute or so section of Homer overcompensating by fawning over Marge was jarring, like they stuck season 30 Homer into the episode.

Granny Dainger out here complaining about Homer in the episode where he says "I sleep in a big bed with my wife"

Lol that's kinda my point. There's this 2 minute stretch where nuHomer is born.

pretty much everything terrible about nu simpsons (1998-now) can be found in the classic episodes in less concentrated and morbid forms so it probably sowed the seeds for its own decay and wasn't built to last as long as my entire fucking life

just noticed the AV club (whose writers have wasted years trying to convince themselves it's still good) has decided to stop covering new episodes altogether which is pretty damning, I mean if you've lost them

I also say nu-Simpsons starts in 2002

Seasons 10, 11 & 12 are def a "clearly not-peak-era-but-also-not-offensively-terrible" zone

1-9: Phil Spector 1959-1966
10-12: Phil Spector 1970-1980
13-present: Phil Spector 2003-2021

i don't remember specifics from season 13, but season 14 was home to that episode with the rolling stones, so that ^^ seems to check out

Season 13 gave us the "Old Man Yells At Cloud" image at least.

Are the Rolling Stones the only (group of) people to work with both the Simpsons and Phil Spector?

Ramones as well

iirc season 14 has the one where marge gets new boobs and homer sings a song about them, the one where marge gets roid rage and rapes homer, and the one where frank grimes jr shows up to get his revenge. def beyond redemption at that point

paul mccartney (sort of)

xp

The show peaked with Season 8. Specifically, "Homer's Enemy." The Frank Grimes episode should have been the series finale. They were never gonna do anything funnier, and there was no coming back after torching the show's entire conceptual superstructure that way.

I'm sure something similar was said somewhere upthread, but I really feel like what the Simpsons lost after its "classic" years was more its emotional center than its humor. Without that, the constant absurdist jokes started to feel decadent and the cynicism started to feel aimless.

I've always maintained that the Simpsons just slowed down in how quickly they pummelled you with jokes. Like they just left more room to breathe and think and "get it".

I thought it was interesting that Swartzwelder said in his interview that he thought season 3 was the series peak because I feel like there was a shift between season 3 and 4 where they sacrificed some degree of character based humour for joke density and surrealism. I think a lot of the writing staff changed between those two seasons? I think seasons 2 and 3 might be my favourites, it's strange though because I would have guessed that Swartzwelder would come down more on the 'density and surrealism' side than the character/realism side.

paul mccartney (sort of)

Definitely George & Ringo!

I've been rewatching some episodes lately and I've gotten that same impression, the S2-3 ones are better than I remembered while the S7-8 ones are maybe a bit too overexposed and absurd. obviously still very funny though. last one I watched was the one where he eats the psychedelic chili pepper, the first 2/3rds of which is maybe one of the finest episodes of any animated show ever (and clearly seemed to be the inspiration for a bunch of Futurama episodes), but man I'd forgotten how cobbled together and dull the final third is. like, it ends with Marge randomly forgiving him and then they prevent a shipwreck together? its like they couldn't figure out how to end it.

I also say nu-Simpsons starts in 2002

Seasons 10, 11 & 12 are def a "clearly not-peak-era-but-also-not-offensively-terrible" zone

re-read the beginning of the thread

I feel like there was a shift between season 3 and 4 where they sacrificed some degree of character based humour for joke density and surrealism. I think a lot of the writing staff changed between those two seasons?

All the staff Simon hired stayed as long as he did, and several left with him after S4. Oakley/Weinstein and Conan are the only two that joined between 3 and 4.

This thread was started during S14.

I don't remember it exactly but I think there's a quote about jazz thats something like 'jazz is about seeing how far out you can go and still get back', like when a musician improvises around a tune how far can they go while still retaining some connection to that original tune - and the I think the surrealism in the Simpsons is kind of like that. For the first 10 years of the show's life a lot of the humour comes from how there is some base level of realism, the laws of physics apply, people act like real humans to some degree, but because it's a cartoon they can stretch the realism and flirt with outright surrealism, and when they stretch it to the point of breaking and there are no rules left that's when the show stopped being any good.

like the bit with Homer jumping the gorge on a skateboard is funny because it's treading this fine line between loony tunes cartoon surrealism and realism, it's Wile E Coyote type joke but he actually ends up bruised and bloodied. It wouldn't be funny if the Simpsons was set in a world with no rules where cartoon physics applied, but it also wouldn't be funny if the Simpsons was set in a world that was strictly realistic.

Definitely George & Ringo!

― blue whales on ambient (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, May 3, 2021 2:48 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

george was nearly as memorable as his co-star, a giant plate of brownies

I don't remember it exactly but I think there's a quote about jazz thats something like 'jazz is about seeing how far out you can go and still get back', like when a musician improvises around a tune how far can they go while still retaining some connection to that original tune - and the I think the surrealism in the Simpsons is kind of like that. For the first 10 years of the show's life a lot of the humour comes from how there is some base level of realism, the laws of physics apply, people act like real humans to some degree, but because it's a cartoon they can stretch the realism and flirt with outright surrealism, and when they stretch it to the point of breaking and there are no rules left that's when the show stopped being any good.

i was trying to think of a post-season 12 joke that i really loved and i remembered this one: "aww, i have three kids and no money. why can't i have no kids and three money?"

from episode 397 (season 18)

I've been listening to the commentaries too and the first few times Groening noted he had a problem with a joke in that regard I thought he was being overly fussy but a few seasons later I find myself agreeing with his stance more. Made me wonder if he's still doing commentaries on like season 21 or whatever?

The big writing staff shake-up occurred between seasons four and five (with “Homer’s Barbershop Quartet” and “Cape Feare” being leftovers). Homer calling a college dean a “stupid head” or bumblebee man falling over his chair after taking over for Kent Brockman was such a different kind of humor.

The Poochie episode was the beginning of the end. Yes it was funny, but the humor was just so smug and self-referential.

Made me wonder if he's still doing commentaries on like season 21 or whatever?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAOLTsTtZis

i was trying to think of a post-season 12 joke that i really loved and i remembered this one: "aww, i have three kids and no money. why can't i have no kids and three money?"

from episode 397 (season 18)

― the mai tai quinn (voodoo chili), Monday, May 3, 2021 3:44 PM (twenty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol this one stuck with me too.

I doubt it, because then he’d have to explain why the Critic crossover was unacceptable (he took his name off the credits) but had no issue with the later Family Guy crossover.

older, insanely richer, did not think the current show had enough integrity to bother defending

i could have sworn i saw an interview within the last five years with groening where he said the show was still good, he may have even said it was still on par with the 'classic' era

i could have sworn i saw an interview within the last five years with groening where he said the show was still good, he may have even said it was still on par with the 'classic' era