"young go-getters"

But yes.

So “young go-getters” = “Radio Shack Manager”?

also, they know which batteries my watch takes = they are demi-gods

Earlier today I had a meeting with my boss in which he loaded a bajillion new multi-faceted projects on my back. When I was complaining to the ladies, they said, "Oh! You're so lucky! I wish I were given that much responsibility!"

Please! Have some! It's on the house!

What do you mean 'a Schmirnoff'? The vodka? What did she think it was, fancy water?

(too many questions. sorry. not sorry or i'd go back and change it.)

I can't stand answer-every-question types, pleasers, mediocrities. There was a big interview in the Univ of M*nn's newsletter (where I work) with some kid who's a Rhodes scholar (pictured with rimless glasses and Oxford scarf). They give him the bullshittest q: "what lessons did you learn from your family?" and he ticked through every member with two "lessons" each! (how to love, be true to himself, etc) a) grr what I could do if I studied IR at Oxford b) this is the game you have to play and WIN to get there? Gross!

maybe one of those "schmirnoff ice" malt drinks
Yes, that's what it was.
She's... I don't know... naive??

Oh sorry, I have a job, I take shit so I can give shit one day, let me go slit my wrists?

The non-alcoholic girls described just sound like morons, not ambitious go-getters. They sound like the dumb temp we had at work. She was a sweet girl, and threw a wobbly when they asked her to be receptionist, as she was "an executive assistant". Her ability to file or answer multiple phones said otherwise. Those girls sound like her. They aren't ambitious or anything, they're just dummies who don't know they're dumb.

And I dress well, I just don't wanna cut my hair. What's the big deal? It's 2003.

I envy them their money. I envy them their fancy suits and fancy technological toys. I envy them their air of 'what the hell you think you're doing in my street?'

I envy them their completely fucked-up marriages and personal lives. I envy them their shot-to-buggery health. I envy them their paranoia. I envy them their stultifying, constant dedication to 'image management'. I envy them their insane working hours and their completely bogus Company-issue self-esteem which depends for renewal on doing whatever the fuck the boss tells them, whenever, wherever the boss so chooses and the rest of your life, such as they may have carelessly allowed to remain, can go and get stuffed. I especially envy them the constant stream of earth-shakingly trivial biggest-fish-in-the-stagnant-pond office politics they immerse themselves in and, in the ultimate act of obsequiousness, pretend to give a shit about. When they hit 50, I'll sure as hell envy a massively disproportionate number of them their first heart attack.

For an only slightly exaggerated example of Homo Corporatus gone absolutely mutant-feral, check out Grisham's The Firm (I mean read it, sod that God-awful film).

The line at the end of 'No-one is Innocent' resounds in a million ears: 'Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?'

So some people get off on getting a promotion. Big deal, good for them. Other people get off on hunting down rare records, playing in bands, going to clubs, etc. Good for them too. Again, it's a lifestyle choice. They may get a heart attack at age 50, but they'll get it in a nice-ass crib instead of a shithole apartment, and I guess that's just important to some people.

Personally, I just distrust any place where there are regulations and/or expectations of what I'm supposed to dress like or look like (this is one of many reasons I could never join the military). Did you want someone to do the job or did you want the tailor and stylist? In which case, hire them, please.

This obviously doesn't preclude dressing formally for a job and so forth. The point is, it shouldn't have to be a requirement -- turning up to work clean and presentable does not automatically mean you have to wear a business suit.

The massive dripping turd hanging off the end of their proboscis fm their last face session with the branch supe/sales chief/VP of paper-waste makes me respect them even more. Hey, that's hard work, people

Just bcz you can describe it as a lifestyle choice doesn't mean it's a valid way for you to waste my time/tax dollars/investment capital with yr Herman Miller Aeron chair on the company budget and yr first class plane tix back and forth across the country attending meetings in which you accomplish nothing that wd be beyond the avg capacity of a Cole Haan mannequin

Young or old doesn't matter to me. A soulless fuck without a single original idea in his/her head is the same no matter when you meet them - trbl is they like to hang around with each other all the time bcz us 'longhairs' make them uncomfortable w/our ability to make them look stupid

There's a difference between working hard, working just enuf to get ahead, and the 'go-getters' who can't do their job but make up for it by arranging the right 'face time' - at least real slackers are honest

But why, Ned? I meant everything I said.

These people just decide at some point that they want make a go for that kind of work environment, wealth, etc. I'm not saying one or the other lifestyle is better. I would bet those that take the corporate path aren't sitting around burning negative energy about how much cooler and smarter the hipsters appear.

A play of Brecht's (can't remember which one) has a mad army sergeant lecturing one of his minions along the lines of,

'When a good soldier hears his superior officer addressing him, he gets a hard on, and when he actually gets his orders, he comes...when a soldier falls on the battlefield he should imagine his commanding officer smiling approvingly at him. It is his confirmation that he has been a good and faithful servant.'

A lot of cornflakes-packet-MBA managers nowadays seem to have that attitude.

But if I'm not any more accurate in my assessment of YGGs than they are about slackers/hipsters in some conversations I'v heard, I should shut up.

Call your unemployment office, maybe they will cry you a river.

In our office, we shoot each other with rubber bands. They make an excellent weapon.

Feel free to hate me for my luck. hee hee!

i live to see certain Columbia/Harvard/Chicago/Penn/NYU law grads slumped over their desks after their hearts exploded in their chests 'cause they didn't bill the 3,000 hours necessary to get a $50K bonus or when they find out that they aren't one of the 5% of associates who get to make partner.

Which is something else your MBA probably didn't tell you.

But why? Aren't you curious about things you, as you say "have negative knowledge"? This is what I don't get. Why not try to befriend someone who is familiar with things that you aren't? I dunno, I guess I just like having a wide circle of acquaintances. I like learning from the people I meet. People aren't all evil, even if they may have different interests from your own.

I mean, if you want to criticize capitalism, corporate greed, the fucked-up way this country is run, etc. wouldn't you feel more comfortable doing so from a position of knowledge?

Finance? That's a bit different. I've watched (and enjoyed) Trading Places half a dozen times and still have no handle on the plot of the last half hour. I'm sure it's a fascinating field, and I'm not often called an idiot, but it's all a black hole to me. I just can't understand it. So if I meet somebody who works in that area, we have to find something else to talk about. That could be difficult if you're up to your neck in it for 80 hours...only 88 more remain.

If you work at a job that I find morally objectionable and/or dull as ditchwater and/or incomprehensible, or all of the above (such as advertising) for only 40 hours a week, it leaves much more time for other things we may have in common.

Excessive use of any finite resource (such as time) always will limit your options.

I understand what you're saying about advertising; I'd say it probably is the weakest field in terms of generating interesting people. I mean what, these people dig up an ELO song and they're clever? I'd much rather talk to a lawyer. That said, if I found myself pushed up against an ad person at a bar I'd still probably try to hear what the industry was up to. in other words I'm not even expecting these people to have outside interests at the passion level I do; it would be enough for me to learn a bit about their business.

cries

(you've just hurt felicity's and colin's feelings too!)

Well, of course I didn't mean you all! You guys are the greatest!

Why do you hate YGG, defined variously as people who are hateable. Because they're despicable, of course.

Don't be a playah hatah! Well, all right, go ahead and hate them--they're awful! Especially the ones who have just finished a backbreaking mindlessly dull project and have black circles under their eyes, and then can only describe the project as "fun, man. Really fun." Fun? Fun is finding an ELO record, not working until 2:00 a.m.

Whoops, I've fallen into your web of wicked loving lies....

The problem with playing the game is that it's very hard to stop.

But on the other hand - I am in a reasonably-paid job and have ever-more-thinly disguised contempt for what I do and post to ILE all day; and the guy next to me is in a similar job and seems really enthusiastic about it and actually believes what we do has meaning and maybe even benefit for someone. I would guess that he feels happier and less frustrated than I about his work.

Fred - this is magnificent. You must know some people who work with me!

**and have ever-more-thinly disguised contempt for what I do**

I know what you mean, Tom. I've tried to keep this in check though as it can be incredibly destructive. Whilst for me, work is just something to do to get money to do the stuff I enjoy, I do try to at least *appear* to take it seriously while I'm there. I just can't *commit* to it mentally though - it's meaningless bullshit really - I mean we spend three hour meetings agonizing over a f@cking strap line for an ad when it just doesn't matter. My boss is a cockfarmer -'my hobby is Marketing' - can you beleive he said that? I really want to give it up and do something that genuinely helps people. That's my plan, but it seems difficult to break the ties. I envy people who love what they do, like my wife and my best friend A.

I haven't actually heard of a company that has adopted, without irony, Pete Seeger's 'Sixteen Tons' as their theme song (which all Modern Upthrusting Companies must now have right alongside the Mission Statement and other miscellaneous hogwash), but I haven't given up hope. (Actually, I smell another thread here...)

one of the things i learn from knowing ppl in film production is that suit-type ppl with lots of money they want to put into a movie totally lose their evil sharkishnness (= how they made the money) and become rather sweet puppyish putty in the hands of my bad bad friends in film production (= how they will soon lose the money)

they think everyone in the arts is cool and hip and amazing: it's sad really

I was referring more to the last line of the chorus:

'I owe my soul to the company store...'

. . . on 2 Many DJs as Heard on Radio Soulwax Part 4! Wahey! DON'T BRING ME DOWN

(I agree that it's not very nice cutting the line in front of jess.)

Though I've just realised that Peter Gunne is what the My Robot Friend on Rough Trade's Counter Culture reminds me of.

Hahaha, talk about painting with broad strokes? What if you're like me, you work at an investment bank and you smoke dope?

I agree with Douglas from the position that oftentimes I get firsthand knowledge of deals my company does that I think help to make the world a worse place. It sucks, but I'm not in any position to affect it directly, but I do think I can definitely influence things (well, since I'm in training, I definitely can). I mean, it would really be horrible if there weren't at least some people who work here who didn't believe in ethics or morals.*

*ask me later about our convertible bond deal with Tyco.

Track listing:

Intro 0:20
Deus "Everybodys Weird" (Soulwax Remix) 0:28
Beastie Boys "Intergalactic" (Soulwax Remix) 1:06
INXS "Mediate" 1:43
Run DMC "Peter Piper" 1:21
Arbeid Adelt "Death Disco" 1:23
Soulwax "Saturday" 1:21
E.L.O. "Don't Bring Me Down" 0:23
Steve Miller Band "Serenade From The Stars" 0:46
Rod Stewart "Hot Legs" 0:21
Flying Lizards "Purple Haze" 0:16
Kolk "Uma" (Soulwax Remix) 0:30
Stereo Total "Joe Le Taxi" 2:06
Deejay Punk Rock "My Beatbox" 3:06
Basement Jaxx "Same Old Show" 3:14
Donna Summer "I Feel Love" 0:22
Moloko "Bring It Back" 1:51
Jamiroquai "Supersonic" 2:22
Chemical Brothers "Out Of Control" 2:23
Pharaoh Monch "Simon Says" 0:54
Jerky Boys "My Name Is" 2:11
Moby "Bodyrock" 0:12
Simon Harris "Bass" 0:08
Marrs "Pump Up The Volume" 0:28
Bomb The Bass "Beat Dis" 1:04
Paul Hardcastle "19" 1:26
Public Enemy "Bring The Noise" 1:24
Weatherman "Poison" 1:26
DJ Spinna "Rock" 0:36
DJ Hell "Suicide Machine" 0:30
LRD "Jaques Your Body" 2:28
Freq Nasty "Boominbackatcha" 3:26
Dust Brothers "Shake Your Rump" 3:00
Alex Gopher "Party People" (Soulwax Remix) 2:12
Beck "Sexxlaws" 2:19
Them "I Can Only Give You Everything" 1:06
Blackstreet "No Diggity" (Soulwax Remix) 3:20
Brad "20th Century" 1:25
Digital Underground "The Humpty Dance" 1:59
Roy Keating "Jesus Christ Superstar" 1:17
Cassius "La Moucha" 0:44
Farley Jackmaster Funk "Love Can't Turn Around" 0:55
Zita Swoon "Disco"(Soulwax Remix) 2:25 Brian Auger & Julie Driscoll "Indian Ropeman" 1:18
Das Pop "Electronica For Lovers" 1:12
Outro 0:25

I don't hate young go-getters, but they're awfully fun to mock.

I also like mock sesame chicken (yes, I am going crazy at work today).

i guess this could apply to a lot of young slackers too, though

I admire a lot of young go-getters. Not envy, but admire. Usually I just get the sense that they have a clearer idea about what they want from their lives, and having a successful career is a large part of their particular idea. They want to work hard, impress people with their efficiency, put themselves in line for better and better positions, and leave happy successful lives with children and houses and vacations. The fact that they want these things does not mean they're going to stab anyone in the back to get them, or sell their souls; half of them would love to help you be successful in the same ways. They just want to try their best and be successful in the particular conventional way they've chosen. Good for them! Best of luck! Just because I'm not playing a particular game doesn't mean I have to cast aspersions on those who are.

Also I notice you guys are talking about finance and PR and law quite a bit. You can be a "young go-getter" anywhere, can't you? They're in every industry, even academic publishing. Sometimes they're annoying and sometimes they're nice -- just like anyone else, if maybe a little more likely to be prissy and rigid about things. They're in Radio Shack, too, I guarantee you: there are a thousand Radio Shack salesman out there running themselves ragged because they aspire to being store manager, branch manager, whatever. Ambition is NOT exclusive to rich or well-educated people.

nitsuh i have never worked in finance or pr or law. my major work experience is in the higher ranks of college retail management and office supply distribution warehousing.

Freudian slip of the month!

I should note that my brother and his wife got word that their bid on their first house was accepted today. I don't think that they're creeps for buying a house (esp. as they both have jobs where they help people).

I actually find a lot of finance stuff, esp. the more esoteric, pretty interesting, and not just because of my job. Finance is weird because for every 10th putz or so you meet (intelligent or not, you can still be a putz), you do meet some people who are genuinely fascinated by it.

What I don't understand is - how do they KNOW about the career? Obv everyone know that lawyers, accountants etc EXIST, but how do they know how to fit in from day one, how to they know the right moves?

I'm 41 and I've sort of stumbled along by trial and mainly, error. You should see some of the bright young things that I have to work with - they scare the shit out of me.

1. Admirable
2. Impressive
3. Inspiring
4. Just Occasionally a Bit Much
5. Acceptable-but-Irritating
6. Unacceptably Annoying
7. Enraging
8. Morally Questionable
9. Psychologically Questionable
10. Indisputably Psychopathic

I dunno. For some people, I guess it's a calling. My brother knew from the time he was in probably middle school that he wanted to be a doctor, so that's what he did. He had a bit of doubt in the middle of med school, but he plowed ahead and he's now finishing the third-year of his residency in neurosurgery.

I've just kinda stumbled along. Getting a job in finance has been the weirdest thing, 'cause my mom and stepdad are both brokers, and for years as a punk kid I thought finance was the most boring thing ever.

I'll talk about it with friends who are in work with me, that makes sense. Outside of that, good grief, why? There are more fun things to discuss, like chickenbears.

ned, with me its more that i have an almost pathological dread of job interviews and each new pitch is like a mini-interview, which explains why i write for the same two or three venues every time i do.

love letter love letter
go getter go getter (or is it "get her"?)

all the pop stars are going for theirs.

c'mon jess : BE YOURSELF!

A. restating what other people have said
B. lying

Ambition has nothing to do with whether or not you are despicable. Neither do yr suits or yr job sector. It's not even really abt $ as there are plenty of worthless 'go-getter' fucksteaks meandering abt abusing subordinates in extremely low-paying fields (food service! the military! etc)

Trust me, they're everywhere, and they are to be shunned, never respected

there's something odd about saying "Group A is terrible" and then, when called on it, saying "well obviously I just mean the ones in Group A who are terrible."

"go-getter" in this thread =

http://www.stangl-taller.at/TESTEXPERIMENT/BILDER/rorschachIV.jpg

(although I still agree with jess about the line cutting)

people who strive to do good work and be successful

I never accused them of striving to do good work. My concept of the people who are the subject of this thread is that they have barely any idea of what 'good work' means. Striving to be successful maybe, but not by doing anything I would consider 'good work'.

Obv. yr concept of what/who I am talking abt and my concept of same are v.diff. - you seem to take 'young go-getters' as a term Jess is using to describe hardworking goal-oriented studious types of all stripes - I assume that since we are using the term to describe people we find worthy of derision, and therefore in this thread 'young go-getters' are actually a small subset of goal-oriented people who only work hard at looking good to the boss and are only interested in studying the various aspects of effective workplace sycophancy and machiavellian backstabbing.

I can't imagine you could read my posts to this thread and seriously think that I am referring to creatures bearing even a passing resemblance to 'people who strive to do good work'.

If you think that the poisonous invaders I am describing are simply phantoms of my imagination I can only assume that you have never worked in a large organization for any length of time over two weeks.

MILLAR: "I don't agree with nabisco at all and I think he misses the point. . . . We are arguing semantics."

I must say, though, I do sort of care about the semantic issue! Because "young go-getter" is traditionally a compliment, the sort of thing a manager would say about a new employee who strikes him or her as particularly industrious or dependable or hard-working. Reframing it as meaning "incompetent back-stabbing asshole" just seems mean for no reason. It's like saying "fucking spics are so lazy" then turning around and going "oh I don't mean Latinos as a whole, just the ones who are lazy." We already have a perfectly fine term to describe incompetent back-stabbing assholes: it's "incompetent back-stabbing assholes."

*steam escapes*

Actually sales in general have that quality, which I think is a great thing: it's a field full of those focused, ambitious working-class guys whose skill isn't educational but the pure ability to know a product and sell someone on it. And it's got to be awfully attractive, because if you're good at it you can start raking in loads of money when you're still really young, early twenties even.

I also sometimes admire people for having that skill, even the guys on Judge Joe Brown and such whose massive sales abilities are devoted to getting women to buy them stuff.

This is kind of what I was getting at by saying that certain ppl just "get off" on being successful in the way that others get off on, I don't know, working on art, reading philosophy books, etc. types of things most of around here consider "interesting."

Thinking of the older brother of my best friend from high school; he and his wife are both in sales - I don't think either of them actually finished college, but I'm not sure. Anyway, I could never understand how someone could enjoy this type of work, but they really love their jobs, they'll tell you they just love the chase of selling people on stuff. And Nabisco is right, it can be very finacially rewarding. It somewhat irritating to me because I worked in IT doing sysadmin, and they both worked for IT companies (Sun and a smaller software firm). They were making scads of cash (certainly more than I was), yet didn't know the slightest thing about computers. They just knew how to sell the stuff effectively; and people who are best at that can be invaluable to a company.

Also, I actually have a good friend whose sister just got married to a Radio Shack manager. I've never met the guy but if I do I'll be sure to report back.

Personally I can't stand the phrase. I would feel bloody condescended to if a boss used it to describe me. It's like spinster Aunt Mabel calling her teenage niece 'sensible' (which would make the niece sound like Margaret Thatcher). Which is probably why I feel it belongs back in the Man in the Grey Flannel Suit era.

No, I don't have any problem with hard work either, I've even been known 'in extremis' to indulge in it. But indulging in corporate bullshit games contributes nothing to the organisation or the world at large (except maybe massaging the boss's ego) and is therefore not 'work', hard or otherwise. So why should we admire it?

But Plastic Executive Smith (except some image-consultant would have made a hatful of money by advising him to change it to Smiith or something so his businss cards look better) one-upping Plastic Executive Jones is not a worthwhile activity that anybody else need give a rats in hell about.

The funny bit is that those disdainful people seem to overlap really heavily with the people who say that Western standards of living are dependent upon depriving everyone else of resources -- as if their ability to even dream of supporting themselves doing something non-mundane depends on anything but. It's a total American thing, too.

This sucks: I didn't pick up the legendary Immigrant Work Ethic but I bought all the philosophy?

Suppose I am an articled clerk or 'junior' at a law firm. My 'mentor' makes sure I'm working my arse off but I'm happy to do it because I'm learning stuff, gathering skills and knowledge that will stand me in good stead if I ever get the chance to nail Skase (or un-nail Lindy Chamberlain or the Guildford Five). All that filing and reading case notes is teaching me about being a lawyer. So I have no problem with it, even doing it at the weekends.

But if I start to feel that I'm only doing it to show the boss how Keen or Committed or what a Great Team Player I am, that I am being rewarded not in knowledge for the future but brownie points for the here and now, that is a whole different matter. It then falls into the same category as telling the boss what a great guy/inspiration he is, or pretending to like golf or jazz music or hang-gliding or ancient Mongolian history because you've heard He does, ie the category of Crawling.

It's not the actor that defines the morality of the act, it's the act itself and the motivation behind it. Plastic Executive Smiith (from previous post) may well have 'succeeded' (defined however he defines it) even without managing his Corporate Image to within an inch of its meaningful life. If so, the very best of luck to him, and proof that he needn't have bothered with all that other bullshit that caused carping critics like me to cast doubt on it.

diner/tobacco shop??

anyway that depends on who said it to you.

nabisco was pretty much the only person OTM on this entire thread, which I just reread from start to finish.

I think advertising is a cool industry. I work in marketing, btw.
-- Sean (saturns...), February 21st, 2003.

woo-hoo!

xxpost

And he... WORE a HAT
And he... HAD a JOB
And he... brought home the BAcon
So that no one knew
Mongoloid he was a mongoLOID!
His friends were unaware
Mongoloid he was a mongoLOID!
Nobody even cared!

Assuming, as is likely, I'll be looking for another job come summer, I am unsure as to whether to stay in the UC or not. Personally I still really dislike the idea of working a 'regular' job as such in the for-profit world, and frankly would prefer to be using what I've now learned over these past years here -- and to my pleasant surprise, I've realized that's quite a bit in quite a few different areas -- in something similar to what I'm doing (in terms of organizing information, making things hyperefficient, constantly improving what can be done as opposed to making one change and then never looking back), just at a higher level with more compensation and less layers to go through to get it done.

But this refers explicitly to the roof-over-head side of work in my life. In terms of writing, that's its own situation and I pursue that in different ways. Theoretically if I really wanted to be a go-getter I would be up in Seattle right now because -- and I don't think anyone would deny this, though I'm not saying this is the overt reason for its existing -- the EMP conference functions as a rock-crit SXSW in terms of networking and the like, as part of what else it offers. Am I missing out? Perhaps, but I'm not losing sleep over it, because I have been able to make various connections as I go while continuing steady if low-key AMG work.

this total "i like the way you think kid, you'll go far" coen bros. type. (and, helpfully, the hr guy at my new job).

arrgh kill kill kill