― Tom, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― dave q, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― anthony, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Richard Tunnicliffe, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― mark s, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Omar, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Ronan, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
Tom Wolfe. Jeanette Winterson. Eric Rohmer.
― Nick, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Billy Dods, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
others for me = Hardy and Shakespeare, can't get into either so haven't read enough to argue sensibly.
― cabbage, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Pete, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― John Davey, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Tim, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Geoff, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― gareth, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Ronan Fitzgerald, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― ethan, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Martin, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Ally, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
Oh, and that fizzy Willy Wonka bar you can get is wonderful!
― Bill, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
Actually there were exceptions.
― stevo, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Robin Carmody, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― jel, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― nathalie, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Arthur, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Kris, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
Saw him open for the Tindersticks maybe 5 years ago, and thought, "my, how boring." Now everybody wets themselves over him. It also didn't help when I read an interview with him in which he slams Rufus Wainwright, then admits he's never heard him.
― Sean, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
Assuming he does hear him and maintains his judgment, Mr. Merritt has just shot up eight million places in my estimation.
But what if Ned has some estimation chart on which ALL SIX BILLION of the world's population are ranked. On that basis an eight-million place shift is hardly seismic.
― Tom, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― jel, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Ronan, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Nick, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― gareth, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
Also sad to say, Joe Cornish without Adam Buxton. DUD DUD DUD.
― Sarah, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Sam, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― ethan, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
I'm actually a big alt-country fan, even have a Bloodshot records shirt! Although I do like Rufus Wainwright too. I think Ned secretly does as well.
― Sean, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Ally C, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Michael Daddino, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)
Although I do like Rufus Wainwright too. I think Ned secretly does as well.
A bit long distance to respond to this, but in a word -- no.
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)
(also: visual and performance artists, writers, people in film and tv, poets, novelists, people who make creepily kitsch folk art on the sides of rural route 9, people who make video games [producers? what the hell do you call these people?], singer-songwriters...)
― jess, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― DG, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― David Raposa, Sunday, 20 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)
bah!
― roger, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Edna Welthorpe, Mrs, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Alan Trewartha, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)
If it's not too much trouble all the same, could you explain how, in the strange universe you call home, Gauss manages to come out overrated?
― , Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Josh, Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Ron, Thursday, 1 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
what?? of course mathematicians can be over/under-rated. were i to rate gauss the worst mathematician ever i'd be underrating him; were i to rate myself the best ever i'd be (dramatically) overrating myself.
― toby, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Josh, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
My point, toby_gee, is that mathematicians find out what's already there, whereas nearly everybody else aims to create what wasn't there before. Elsewhere, one can argue "someone else would have done it if he hadn't", but this is a truism in math, not a point of debate. It makes no sense to canonize people working in an essentially impersonal field. Things are different even in the physical sciences-- Relativity, for example, is one person's vision of the world that has so far been supported by data. But just watch, Einstein's number may be up any day now.
― , Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― N., Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― katie, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― RJG, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― jel --, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Andrew L, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Ronan, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
Its amazing how really good mathematicians believe that all of maths is almost a priori and that they did not infact derive all of maths from first principles themselves but rather they were taught how to do it. Good mathematicians therefore make lousy maths teachers.
Fermat is a massively over-rated mathematician, for being sloppy in a margin he is awarded this romantic position in Maths. Galois ditto - just because they died in interesting manners doesn't make their maths any better. (Galois Theory = k-important but that it should be named after him is a bit less sure).
Russell was an under-rated mathematician. Just cos he and Whitehead were wrong...
― Pete, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
Starry: you have made an idiot of yourself.
Edna: I think you mean 'James Wood'.
Something about the question is flawed. If you truly feel that sth is overrated, then you already feel that you know enough to know.
Actually - Derrida.
― the pinefox, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― mark s, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
*backs away w/o sudden movements*
Most of the time, "genius" is a term for people who simultaneously impress and confuse. All it marks is a refusal to doubt or understand on the part of whoever applied it. Not unlike terming a work of art "a masterpiece" and stowing it in a vault so that it will never be subject to criticism. A mathematician can do very useful work, but I don't think there is any big scheme in which to rank it. Not only will someone make his discoveries if he does not; someone may also make them with equal or much greater efficiency. Ramunajan (sp?) probably had an intuitive understanding of certain areas that far surpassed Gauss', but that doesn't make him the "greater" of the two.
I think I understand the criteria by which Gauss and friends are rated, disagree though I may with them, and still wonder why you consider him higher-rated than he should be. Or were you being iconoclastic for its own sake?
Aren't random googlers funny?
I liked jel's nomination way back of "gothic archies". Would that be the comic where Betty & Veronica become vampires?
― Martin Skidmore, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
(ha. most of the discussion works so far if for mark s Gauss= Coltrane)
― The Actual Mr. Jones, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
Before you try refuting me: are you just a skeptic, or do you have any beliefs of your own about this?
― Sterling Clover, Friday, 2 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
'just' a skeptic!!!!!
The other day I tipped thrice the cost of my coffee in an embarrassed math-panic, so to answer your arch-villainish challenge, falsecrux: no I'm quite out of my league. And yes thanks I get it; math isn't art. Still, in my experience, after "artistic causality" comes a not insignificant amount of reasoning which FITS EXACTLY the criteria by which you discount the idea of genius above. I am skeptical only of the implication that mathematicians are continually calculating from birth, that something doesn't point them down a particular path of reasoning at a given point in time, and that that something may not be called "inspiration".
(I gather this makes me something called a platonist, which can't be good. When i master the craft of the generous-but-not- ridiculous gratuity perhaps i will grow more pragmatic in these more complicated matters too)
And you talk to me about Platonism...
What is art, then? A component of all imaginable universes? Divine aesthetics made manifest? Something other than accident? This would make the over-/underrated distinction a lot simpler, I have to admit.
Some perceive more connections than others, yes, but no correct approach could lead to results different from theirs, and so none of what they conclude depends on them as individuals.
― , Saturday, 3 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― david h(owie), Saturday, 3 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Josh, Saturday, 3 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― mark s, Saturday, 3 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Martin Skidmore, Saturday, 3 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
You still miss the point. Of course it is possible for different people to choose different methods, to make missteps, to reach dead- ends. The validity of each step, however--whether or not one perceives it--is determined by the conclusions it implies, not by individual choice.
An artist may do more or less exactly what another has done, but it may still be said that "he just can't do it like [predecessor]". Can you imagine hearing, when someone independently proves the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra, "nice, but he's no Karl Friedrich"??
haha crux's position is the sort of position it's usually ME taking!!
Uh, just the fact that this concept doesn't figure in any artistic achievement and only provisionally in other scientific achievements, which suggests that they should be evaluated differently from achievements in which it is nearly the only thing of importance.
however if it will make you happier, whatever it is you saying is totally brilliantly correct and amazingly valid and the route you got there is immensly more/less elegant than everyone's else, were they ever to think this, whatever it is: no mathematician is in any sense better than any other mathematician, or indeed any non-mathematician hurrah!
you in particular are rated exactly correctly: your prize is the chance to study some mathematics at last, or to ignore it, or something equivalent
Thank you.
― Skottie, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)
― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)
― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 01:43 (twenty-two years ago)
― Skottie, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)
America has no need for a Robbie Williams whatsoever, though that "Millenium" song was kinda cute.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)
― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 01:56 (twenty-two years ago)
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 01:57 (twenty-two years ago)
Only by technicality.
― Girolamo Savonarola, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 02:00 (twenty-two years ago)
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)
Especially since they have a Timberlake (sadly, this is not an example of trading up).
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)
― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 09:30 (twenty-two years ago)
― Amazing Randy (Amazing Randy), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 10:14 (twenty-two years ago)
Back to thread: Johnathan Franzen. Amanda Hesser/Tad Friend combo. Zadie Smith. The entire McSweeney's crew.
― quincie, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)
― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)
― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)
― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)
― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)
― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)
― H., Wednesday, 5 November 2003 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)
So also in that category: Deleuze & Guttari
― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)
― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)
― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)
― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)
― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)
J G BallardBergmanIain SinclairFelliniHegelAdornoHayekPiL
― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)
― Sarah (starry), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)
― Myron Kosloff, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 23:46 (twenty-two years ago)
― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 6 November 2003 00:03 (twenty-two years ago)
― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 6 November 2003 00:04 (twenty-two years ago)
― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Thursday, 6 November 2003 01:58 (twenty-two years ago)
― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 6 November 2003 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:39 (eighteen years ago)
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:40 (eighteen years ago)
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:41 (eighteen years ago)
― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:42 (eighteen years ago)
― Tom D., Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:44 (eighteen years ago)
― Grandpont Genie, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:47 (eighteen years ago)
― lfam, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:47 (eighteen years ago)
― Ms Misery, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:49 (eighteen years ago)
― g-kit, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:49 (eighteen years ago)
― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:50 (eighteen years ago)
― Tom D., Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:55 (eighteen years ago)
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:56 (eighteen years ago)
― Frogman Henry, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:56 (eighteen years ago)
― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:58 (eighteen years ago)
― Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:58 (eighteen years ago)
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 16:59 (eighteen years ago)
― Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:00 (eighteen years ago)
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:02 (eighteen years ago)
― Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:03 (eighteen years ago)
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)
― Laurel, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)
― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:12 (eighteen years ago)
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:13 (eighteen years ago)
― Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:14 (eighteen years ago)
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:14 (eighteen years ago)
― gff, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:15 (eighteen years ago)
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:16 (eighteen years ago)
― blueski, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:16 (eighteen years ago)
― blueski, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:17 (eighteen years ago)
― Tom D., Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:18 (eighteen years ago)
― Tom D., Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:19 (eighteen years ago)
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:21 (eighteen years ago)
― Tom D., Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:23 (eighteen years ago)
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:24 (eighteen years ago)
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:24 (eighteen years ago)
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:25 (eighteen years ago)
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:30 (eighteen years ago)
― chap, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:32 (eighteen years ago)
― Rock Hardy, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 17:44 (eighteen years ago)
― Ned Trifle II, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 18:09 (eighteen years ago)
― .stet., Tuesday, 13 March 2007 18:13 (eighteen years ago)
― and what, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 18:14 (eighteen years ago)
― Beth Parker, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 18:22 (eighteen years ago)
― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 18:23 (eighteen years ago)
― Mark C, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 18:24 (eighteen years ago)
― kingfish, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 18:26 (eighteen years ago)
― latebloomer, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 18:35 (eighteen years ago)
― chap, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 18:50 (eighteen years ago)
― gff, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 18:51 (eighteen years ago)
― nickalicious, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)
― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 18:53 (eighteen years ago)
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 19:02 (eighteen years ago)
― milo z, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 19:32 (eighteen years ago)
― accentmonkey, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 23:33 (eighteen years ago)
― strgn, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 23:36 (eighteen years ago)
― Granny Dainger, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 00:00 (eighteen years ago)
― tremendoid, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 02:11 (eighteen years ago)
― tremendoid, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 02:23 (eighteen years ago)
― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 02:26 (eighteen years ago)
― gershy, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 04:32 (eighteen years ago)
― milo z, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 04:33 (eighteen years ago)
― tremendoid, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 06:45 (eighteen years ago)
― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 07:59 (eighteen years ago)
― max, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 08:35 (eighteen years ago)
― The Wayward Johnny B, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 09:18 (eighteen years ago)
― gem, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 09:18 (eighteen years ago)
― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 09:31 (eighteen years ago)
― blueski, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 10:33 (eighteen years ago)
― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 10:34 (eighteen years ago)
― blueski, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 10:35 (eighteen years ago)
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 10:39 (eighteen years ago)
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 10:42 (eighteen years ago)
― Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 10:47 (eighteen years ago)
― joygoat, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 15:55 (eighteen years ago)
― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 16:00 (eighteen years ago)
― j-rock, Saturday, 17 March 2007 05:35 (eighteen years ago)
― Hurting 2, Saturday, 17 March 2007 05:51 (eighteen years ago)
― abanana, Saturday, 17 March 2007 05:51 (eighteen years ago)
― Hurting 2, Saturday, 17 March 2007 06:02 (eighteen years ago)
― Hurting 2, Saturday, 17 March 2007 06:16 (eighteen years ago)
― horseshoe, Saturday, 17 March 2007 07:04 (eighteen years ago)
― remy bean, Saturday, 17 March 2007 07:27 (eighteen years ago)
― get bent, Saturday, 17 March 2007 07:50 (eighteen years ago)
― get bent, Saturday, 17 March 2007 07:54 (eighteen years ago)
― tremendoid, Saturday, 17 March 2007 08:01 (eighteen years ago)
― Beth Parker, Saturday, 17 March 2007 13:33 (eighteen years ago)
― m coleman, Saturday, 17 March 2007 13:42 (eighteen years ago)
― m coleman, Saturday, 17 March 2007 13:46 (eighteen years ago)
― m coleman, Saturday, 17 March 2007 13:50 (eighteen years ago)
― Hurting 2, Saturday, 17 March 2007 14:39 (eighteen years ago)
chagall and matisse? adorno and benjamin? get the fuck out of here 2007 people.
― treeship., Wednesday, 27 November 2019 02:52 (six years ago)
Mark Curry from Hanging with Mr Cooper
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 02:53 (six years ago)
"overrated" is a bad word and we should stop using it
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 03:42 (six years ago)
Suleiman wasn’t all that magnificent tbrr
― sarahell, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 08:21 (six years ago)
me
― A victim managed to capture evidence of the gimp (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 08:32 (six years ago)
chagall and matisse? adorno and benjamin?
https://i.imgur.com/V0DpJUE.jpg
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 08:33 (six years ago)
Sacco and Vanzetti
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 12:11 (six years ago)
I don't get it about the Matisse paper cut-out things.
I saw The Snail in person and it blew me away. It's nearly 3 metres by 3 metres, and it doesn't really come across as an image on a screen.
― just another country (snoball), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:01 (six years ago)
I saw the Rothko Room on the same day and was distinctly underwhelmed, especially after the teacher talked it up so much. So I'm nominating Mark Rothko as Frighteningly Overrated.
― just another country (snoball), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:04 (six years ago)
(The Other) J.D. (J.D.) at 3:42 27 Nov 19"overrated" is a bad word and we should stop using it
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:05 (six years ago)
Generally agree but otoh it kinda seems custom-made for people like Rothko.
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:30 (six years ago)
And to the extent that I'd deem someone overrated it's generally more an indictment of the raters than the subject him-/herself. Like it's okay for okay talents to just be okay, the world needs those people too.
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:39 (six years ago)
Karl Ove Knausgaard.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:41 (six years ago)
Elena Ferrante
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:43 (six years ago)
don't think it's ever about the artist, it just using the word sets you up as having superior taste and insight to everyone else. which may be the case, but needs to be demonstrated by something much more substantial than a single, lazy word.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:43 (six years ago)
drag 'em xp and xxp
― imago, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:44 (six years ago)
my answer to this is that Fleabag woman
― imago, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:45 (six years ago)
Most well-known contemporary writers are kind of shit tbh.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:47 (six years ago)
I was at the some museum that was having a Matisse exhibit and my friend wanted to go see it and I was like, eh, I really don't like Matisse, it is completely not my thing but I went a long anyway and at the end he agreed that Matisse is completely underwhelming.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:49 (six years ago)
Ferrante I really don't know enough about, but Knausgard otm.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:52 (six years ago)
the point isn't whether you know much about them but whether you baselessly suspect they're overrated, and I can get with both of those suggestions having never read a page of either
― imago, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:53 (six years ago)
Precisely.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:54 (six years ago)
thread could be retitled 'normie crit standards you haven't bothered with'
― imago, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:54 (six years ago)
"that Fleabag woman" has been rated so highly that it's kind of impossible for her to not be considered "overrated" but I remain an enormous stan
― that said, I’d prefer a single serving of you (flamboyant goon tie included), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:55 (six years ago)
Beyonce
― No language just sound (Sund4r), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:56 (six years ago)
otm, except I don't just suspect it.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 14:58 (six years ago)
Michel Houellebecq
― glumdalclitch, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:04 (six years ago)
Perfect example of 'well-known contemporary writer who is kind of shit' (everything is shit tbf).
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:05 (six years ago)
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Tuesday, November 26, 2019 8:53 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
wow what the fuck man
― i'm not a government man; i'm a government, man. (m bison), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:06 (six years ago)
plato
― Wee Bloabby (NickB), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:06 (six years ago)
No way
― treeship., Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:08 (six years ago)
early prediction/hope: this thread will turn out the biggest clusterfuck in modern ilx history
― imago, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:10 (six years ago)
Houellebecq, sure—even though there is an ambiguous or self-contradictory quality of his work I find compelling—but plato casts too wide a shadow over western philosophy, theology, political thought, etc. Those ideas were powerful, as was the archetype of the philosopher he created in socrates.
― treeship., Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:11 (six years ago)
Judith Butler
― No language just sound (Sund4r), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:11 (six years ago)
Alice Munro
― jmm, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:11 (six years ago)
Yeah Plato is just trolling.
Socrates, on the other hand…
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:11 (six years ago)
Lol
― treeship., Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:12 (six years ago)
He gets all the credit Plato deserves for transcribing and inventing him in the process so he's the very definition of overrated imho.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:13 (six years ago)
David Brenner
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:14 (six years ago)
Lock thread.
― 'Skills' Wallace (Tom D.), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:14 (six years ago)
Btw Butler is simultaneously overrated and underrated.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:14 (six years ago)
Mac Davis
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:15 (six years ago)
Pina Bausch
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:19 (six years ago)
why don't we make this interesting and talk about ilxors
― treeship., Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:20 (six years ago)
treeship
― 'Skills' Wallace (Tom D.), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:20 (six years ago)
i was thinking other people.
treeship fairly rated imo
the difficulty with doing this about ilxors is that we all know each other fairly well. you can only pick on those you never interact with
― imago, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:21 (six years ago)
the stultify, omnipresent critical canonization of Mac Davis is indeed vexing
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:22 (six years ago)
― pomenitul, Wednesday, November 27, 2019 4:19 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
I must protest!
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:22 (six years ago)
https://unobtainium13.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/scorpions.jpg
Here treesh amGunnin' for a clusterfuck
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:23 (six years ago)
Bernie Sanders
― Mordy, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:23 (six years ago)
Jane Pauley
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:24 (six years ago)
What don't you know? xp
― No language just sound (Sund4r), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:24 (six years ago)
Hey I can’t see the future maybe he’ll turn out to be the savior of the proletariat I just doubt it
― Mordy, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:25 (six years ago)
i think the ilxors are rated correctly pretty much. i was just hoping to hear other perspectives on this. perhaps diving into some really personal information
― treeship., Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:25 (six years ago)
xp
Fair xp to Mordy
― No language just sound (Sund4r), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:26 (six years ago)
fb recommended me a video of PWB's (fleabag) face being made into pancake art yesterday.
david foster wallace, scorsese.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:26 (six years ago)
― Matt DC, Wednesday, November 27, 2019 7:41 AM (forty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
i read the first volume of my struggle and i’ll never read another one, deeply dull and pointless (which is of course part of the project of the book but iiii don’t caaaare)
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:26 (six years ago)
david foster wallace for sure
― treeship., Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:28 (six years ago)
I'm sure you're right, I just happen to gratuitously, aggressively prefer avoiding anything to do with dance. It's the art form that appeals to me the least, by a very significant margin.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:28 (six years ago)
That and theatre. Basically I hate spectacles.
pom otm
― 'Skills' Wallace (Tom D.), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:29 (six years ago)
(Unless it's a closet drama or un théâtre dans un fauteuil.)
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:29 (six years ago)
if we're slagging off whole mediums i am v suspicious of photography as an artform
― Mordy, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:30 (six years ago)
theater? what about just dramatic theater like chekhov or beckett or something? seems your jam
― treeship., Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:31 (six years ago)
I am allergic to photography exhibits.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:31 (six years ago)
this is the good stuff now alright
― imago, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:31 (six years ago)
I've devoted an inordinate amount of my time to Beckett, but only to Beckett the writer.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:32 (six years ago)
Not crazy about photography either tbh but it's definitely a few notches above dance and theatre and fucking performance art.
Painting is overrated. 'Ooh, colors.' Colors are everywhere, who cares.
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:32 (six years ago)
here's a writer: Ocean Vuong. Lauded, hearalded...I haven't read a word, I'm going off what some other writers have said (who aren't really envious types), that his stuff is frankly not all that and they're baffled.
― akm, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:33 (six years ago)
Books. Wow, you wrote down words on PAPER, how SPECIAL.
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:33 (six years ago)
― pomenitul, Wednesday, November 27, 2019 4:28 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
I agree on dance being the least appealing art form, to me as well. But it is an art form and one I can enjoy at times, even though I hardly know anything about it. Bausch' works (I've seen one at her theatre in Wuppertal, and several others on dvd only) move me.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:34 (six years ago)
Oddly.
"What's the deal with airplane peanuts art?"
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:35 (six years ago)
I've had people get upset when I talk about how I dislike collage. I guess a lot of people are secret collagists.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:36 (six years ago)
dance is one of the most incredibly powerful art forms that exists and i do not trust the aesthetic priorities of anyone who can’t engage with it
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:37 (six years ago)
yeah, I think dancers are completely amazing and more appealing than almost all sports.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:38 (six years ago)
what do you guys think of like, sculptural assemblage?
― treeship., Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:39 (six years ago)
I haven't even given Bausch a chance (as per the thread's wishes) so you may well be right, LBI. I do get a kick out of Marie Chouinard's neo-absurdist, kill-all-innuendo approach:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTE9WPtbT2M
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:40 (six years ago)
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c8/5a/49/c85a499c55ca60d232c2d2933e2c4a04.jpg
i would like some thoughts on this piece, from yerac and others
― treeship., Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:40 (six years ago)
Garbage harbinger of the end of a civilisation. Next.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:41 (six years ago)
Every human expression is a product of both wonder and absurdity. The extent to which we neglect the latter is the extent to which we overrate.
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:41 (six years ago)
This, but in reverse.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:42 (six years ago)
Love* these "the pictures aren't on trial" threads, self-clowning is an important public good
*hate
― FBPRieu (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:43 (six years ago)
https://local.theonion.com/item-found-in-garbage-to-be-turned-into-lamp-someday-1819566357 xpost
I strongly like sculpture, assemblage less so. I don't like when I can easily identify materials that were used. I was an art history minor in college mostly into etruscan and roman art but mostly because the room was mostly dark so I could nap between bus driving shifts.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:44 (six years ago)
i love photography for the record. and i've loved some sculptural assemblages. i am ignorant of dance pretty much, though i've been moved by ballet.
― treeship., Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:45 (six years ago)
― pomenitul, Wednesday, November 27, 2019 8:42 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
"dance sucks and i trust the aesthetic priorities of anyone who thinks it sucks"? what a needlessly closed-off opinion
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:47 (six years ago)
what a needlessly closed-off opinion
C'mon, play along, this is the thread for them.
(Spoiler: my actual thoughts on this matter are nowhere near as bullheaded.)
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:48 (six years ago)
Alejandro Jodorowsky, seems like a pretentious blowhard with a talent for making ugly and unwatchable trash.
― calzino, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:49 (six years ago)
i can't play along with threads like these lol
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:50 (six years ago)
Fucks sake son it's beautiful watchable trash what is wrong with you people
― FBPRieu (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:51 (six years ago)
can't abide his shit!
― calzino, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:51 (six years ago)
i'm rereading infinite jest and i'll say stylistically dfw definitely had boundless talent. he was distinctly less good at conveying non-straight non-white non-male characters as three-dimensional individuals, and he loved to splice really pointless racism and sexism into the thoughts of any character he spent significant time in the head of
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:52 (six years ago)
I'm with Brad threads like this are horse cobblers
― FBPRieu (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:53 (six years ago)
The guy that played Skippy on Family Ties
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:53 (six years ago)
Oh but DFW is shit tbf
Ron Perlman's jaw
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:55 (six years ago)
I made several attempts to read infinite jest and girl with curious hair and couldn't do it. no interest. they did film some of brief interviews with hideous men in my work one weekend. still no interest.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:55 (six years ago)
i am greatly sympathetic toward people who get nothing out of him, unfortunately i still really love his good stuff
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:57 (six years ago)
The things I like are not rated nearly high enough. The things I dislike are rated too highly. There is no arguing with these assertions, do not even try it. Do not.
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:58 (six years ago)
otm
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:59 (six years ago)
personally I love IJ but I think DFW was a better nonfiction writer
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:02 (six years ago)
calzino OTM on Jodorowsky, new agey garbage, just watch a real spaghetti western ffs
his comics scripting is shit too, but at least they look gorgeous thanks to Moebius
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:05 (six years ago)
pom otm re dance/sport
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:06 (six years ago)
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, November 27, 2019 9:02 AM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
i think i agree with this
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:10 (six years ago)
Human beings who fail to remain inert from the time of their birth until the moment of their blessed death are, frankly, overrated. What, you want a medal for engaging your limbs in the service of manipulating your lived environment? Get a job.
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:11 (six years ago)
You know who isn't overrated? Ilya Ilyich Oblomov.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:13 (six years ago)
wrong thread
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:20 (six years ago)
Harsh but fair.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:21 (six years ago)
dfw will be underrated by 2022
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:22 (six years ago)
Not people but: the Colossus of Rhodes, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, the Lighthouse of Alexandria, the Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, the Temple of Artemis and the Statue of Zeus at Olympia.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:25 (six years ago)
xpost Year of Tide PODS® Original Laundry Detergent Pacs, I suspect you mean
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:25 (six years ago)
(The Great Pyramid of Giza is accurately rated, though.)
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:26 (six years ago)
colossus doubles all trade in the city where i build it tho
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:28 (six years ago)
If you made or did stuff prior to the invention of electricity and people are still unaccountably discussing your 'accomplishments' u r overrated, sorry my friend.
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:31 (six years ago)
Ozymandias amirite.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:31 (six years ago)
Also: sorry, Ken Ober, host of MTV's Remote Control, this is one guy who ain't gonna sing those praises to which you've grown accustomed.
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:33 (six years ago)
colossus overrated for sure cuz didn't straddle the harbormouth. the pyramid is just a big pile of rocks tho.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:34 (six years ago)
Yes but to expand on what mookieproof said, either could win you the game in Age of Mythology.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:36 (six years ago)
those pyramids are nothing but a scheme
― calzino, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:41 (six years ago)
Stop getting the thread wrong, peoples. Suspect not think.
― 'Skills' Wallace (Tom D.), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 16:41 (six years ago)
Kanye West. And I’m playing by the rules of the thread title.
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 17:36 (six years ago)
Feel like he's beginning to receive slightly more proportionate ratings of late.
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 17:37 (six years ago)
david lynch
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 17:43 (six years ago)
yeah i think a kanye backlash is coming tbh
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 17:43 (six years ago)
Lynch the rare instance of someone highly-rated who is still not rated nearly highly enough imo.
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 17:45 (six years ago)
I like DFW's short stories more than his novels.
― akm, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 17:54 (six years ago)
Brad OTM (again), I do wish ILX had more dance threads.
― Antonym Scalia (Leee), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 20:29 (six years ago)
why do we do this same thing like every 3 monthscongratulations, ur all fine discriminating consumers
― brimstead, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 20:35 (six years ago)
Sartre
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 20:35 (six years ago)
oh wait this is ile oops sorry lol
why do we do this same thing like every 3 months
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 20:37 (six years ago)
Hey that sounds like MPQ.
― Antonym Scalia (Leee), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 20:40 (six years ago)
The King James Bible is probably shit.
Quite a few 19th century writers I can't be arsed to be read.
Samuel Johnson.
― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 21:16 (six years ago)
Didn't think you could fit more rongness in this thread but kudos
― FBPRieu (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 21:24 (six years ago)
yeah seriously
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 21:26 (six years ago)
It's supposed to be challopsy, innit? I could hear Derek and Clive as I was posting.
― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 21:28 (six years ago)
so this cunt comes up to me and e sez av a read of this bible
― imago, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 21:29 (six years ago)
Non-stop dancing not overrated.
― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 21:30 (six years ago)
New Order
― Mordy, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 21:45 (six years ago)
hannah gadsby
― Mordy, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 21:50 (six years ago)
Billie Eilish
― help yourself to another slice of apple ... crumble (Willl), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 21:51 (six years ago)
beyoncé for sure
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 21:55 (six years ago)
stephen sondheim
― #FBPIRA (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 21:59 (six years ago)
whit stillman
― #FBPIRA (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 22:00 (six years ago)
Tom Waits
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 22:00 (six years ago)
Hamburglar
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 22:01 (six years ago)
"beyoncé for sure" i have no issues with her but I'm sick of the media and fan fawning and the 'beyhive' as though I should give a fuck
― akm, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 22:23 (six years ago)
think ppl are just starved for a Great Pop Artist of Our Times
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 22:55 (six years ago)
Malnutrition has set in.
― 'Skills' Wallace (Tom D.), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 22:58 (six years ago)
I suspect Philip Glass is overrated but I haven't heard his music
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 23:03 (six years ago)
That's what this thread is all abput.
― 'Skills' Wallace (Tom D.), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 23:04 (six years ago)
american poets, british painters
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 23:11 (six years ago)
I suspect the impeachment of Donald J. Trump is overrated but I haven't read about it or watched any of it.
― 'Skills' Wallace (Tom D.), Wednesday, 27 November 2019 23:14 (six years ago)
naming some british painters that I consider shite : Stanley Spencer, Wyndham Lewis, Peter Blake, Francis Bacon
I like some Graham Sutherland + Paul Nash though.
― calzino, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 23:19 (six years ago)
Maggie Rogers
― Lily Dale, Thursday, 28 November 2019 00:26 (six years ago)
Phillip Glass has a cool shaped head
― brimstead, Thursday, 28 November 2019 00:33 (six years ago)
The Fleabag lady
― Chris L, Thursday, 28 November 2019 00:40 (six years ago)
Scorsese has not been underrated tho I fear the marvel thing might finally push it over the edge ... combined w the Netflix pr push, wolf of Wall Street > irishman
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Thursday, 28 November 2019 02:43 (six years ago)
wolf of Wall Street > irishman
I'm absolutely dreading The Irishman and even I'm sure that's not true.
― temporarily embarrassed thousandaire (Eric H.), Thursday, 28 November 2019 02:53 (six years ago)
WoWS is a masterpiece
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Thursday, 28 November 2019 03:30 (six years ago)
^^^
― omar little, Thursday, 28 November 2019 03:55 (six years ago)
― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski)
derek and clive also overrated
― Agnes Motörhead (rushomancy), Thursday, 28 November 2019 04:35 (six years ago)
Joan Didion
― Lily Dale, Thursday, 28 November 2019 05:12 (six years ago)
^^^ I just started reading a giant anthology of her nonfiction stuff, and I have learned two things:• she can really put a sentence together• I do not give the tiniest fuck about How Things Used To Be In California
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Thursday, 28 November 2019 10:39 (six years ago)
Didion’s writing is amazing, but her ideas are often not
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 28 November 2019 14:27 (six years ago)
writing is underrated
ideas horribly overrated
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Thursday, 28 November 2019 14:29 (six years ago)
paging kant to discover if ideas as a concept can be overrated
― mark s, Thursday, 28 November 2019 15:54 (six years ago)
kant
in similar vein: heraclitus locke berkeley and hume bertrand russell lolheidegger
― mark s, Thursday, 28 November 2019 15:57 (six years ago)
i kant even
― War Crimes Tribunal of the Network Stars (Old Lunch), Thursday, 28 November 2019 15:58 (six years ago)
Bertrand Russell otm.
RONG re: all the others tho.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 28 November 2019 15:59 (six years ago)
heraclitus is the beyoncé of the cryptic fragment
― mark s, Thursday, 28 November 2019 16:08 (six years ago)
Nah more like the Robert Johnson.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 28 November 2019 16:11 (six years ago)
trying to fashion a good "all is (giving zero) f(l)ux" gag
but as you see failing
― mark s, Thursday, 28 November 2019 16:15 (six years ago)
Any precocious contemporary artist/writer/philosopher/composer/musician/academic/etc. whereof countless photographic effigies have been disseminated online and who appears to have mastered the art of social media and/or PR. Bonus points for instances that involve the accumulation of known and unknown prizes, to be leisurely perused on their personal website, designed by an expert third party to ensure a smooth browsing experience.
― pomenitul, Friday, 29 November 2019 16:30 (six years ago)
Extra bonus points if they live in NYC.
― pomenitul, Friday, 29 November 2019 16:31 (six years ago)
*live and work
― pomenitul, Friday, 29 November 2019 16:32 (six years ago)
Totally
― No language just sound (Sund4r), Friday, 29 November 2019 17:22 (six years ago)
feeling so seen right now
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 29 November 2019 18:01 (six years ago)
After listening to the audiobook of Carlo Rovelli's The Order of Time: Carlo Rovelli
― wasdnuos (abanana), Wednesday, 4 December 2019 09:10 (six years ago)
Kamasi Washington
― fetter, Wednesday, 4 December 2019 09:48 (six years ago)
― calzino, Wednesday, 4 December 2019 10:00 (six years ago)
Good one.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 4 December 2019 10:37 (six years ago)
Phil Elverum
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 4 December 2019 10:49 (six years ago)
Nick Cave
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 4 December 2019 10:50 (six years ago)
Joni Mitchell
Kate Bush
Suicide by FP!
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 4 December 2019 10:54 (six years ago)
Fade me out, mods!
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 4 December 2019 10:56 (six years ago)
As a once- yuuuuge Birthday Party and Bad Seeds stan I will agree to current era Nick Cave being severely overrated. Yes, recent years have been tragic but I've pretty much found him to be diminishing returns since about "Let Love In".
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Wednesday, 4 December 2019 11:00 (six years ago)
xp I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it!
- Bob Marley
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 4 December 2019 11:32 (six years ago)
(xp) Sounds like you know quite a lot about Nick Cave?
― I've Got A Ron Wood Solo Album To Listen To (Tom D.), Wednesday, 4 December 2019 12:34 (six years ago)
Neil Gaiman
― icy bike chain rain (zchyrs), Wednesday, 4 December 2019 13:53 (six years ago)
Capitaine Jay Vee, that's about where I started thinking so as well - although I always thought it was my fault for not being interested anymore since more and more other people seemed to like his stuff.
― StanM, Wednesday, 4 December 2019 14:01 (six years ago)
y’all should check out the ilx nick cave thread where a bunch of people can’t stand the new record
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 4 December 2019 14:02 (six years ago)
I don't comment on ropy old goths
― calzino, Wednesday, 4 December 2019 14:07 (six years ago)
These suggestions are more wrong than right, which surprises me as someone who thinks most things are overrated.
― Bidh boladh a' mhairbh de 'n láimh fhalaimh (dowd), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 14:00 (five years ago)
The thread's premise does pretty explicitly embrace potential wrongness tho
― Hereward the Woke (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 14:37 (five years ago)
jerem
*runs*
― Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 14:42 (five years ago)
xp but it literally says "People You Suspect Are Frighteningly Overrated But Don't Actually Know Enough About To Say So."
If it were "People You Know to Be Overrated Because You Know All Their Albums Intimately, And You Are Also Well-Versed in the Critical Consensus and Chart Performance Thereof," that would be different.
For me, the threadwinner would be like a Zappa / Beefheart / Tom Waits type - someone with a wildly skewed ratio of critical acclaim vs. crowd-pleasing pop radio success. But what do I know? Which brings one neatly back to the thread premise
― Hereward the Woke (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 14:45 (five years ago)
'Critical acclaim' seems overstated wrt Zappa, at least if we're talking about rock critics.
https://robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?id=4153https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-album-reviews/chungas-revenge-110378/
― No language just sound (Sund4r), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 14:56 (five years ago)
beefheart works for me. i feel like i know just enough about zappa to say he's frighteningly overrated
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 18 December 2019 15:34 (five years ago)
'Critical acclaim' seems overstated wrt Zappa, at least if we're talking about rock critics
Oh ffs thanks for illustrating the point: those who are not excruciatingly familiar with every piece of released music (no matter how obscure) and with every twist and turn of the corpus of critical opinion for the last 40+ years are apparently excluded from any discussion, including discussion that is predicated on a lack of such intimate familiarity (see thread title) kthxbye
― Hereward the Woke (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 17:24 (five years ago)
feel like Zappa deliberately tried to get bad reviews after a certain point. I don't know if he actually did but he seemed to be a fairly well known cultural figure until his death. that said he's kind of an odd example, he's done some stuff that I think is obviously brilliant and he's also done a lot that's lazy & indefensible, more of the latter than the former unfortunately. you can't really make a quick judgment of his career as a whole.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 18 December 2019 17:36 (five years ago)
I don't know if I'd say Zappa produced a lot of stuff that was lazy and indefensible, industrious and indefensible maybe.
― Soup on my lanyard (Tom D.), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:00 (five years ago)
maybe both? like "Jumbo Go Away" sounds almost made up on the spot but it does have that insane & super technical middle section. but the lyrics are so hateful that I never wanna listen to it
― frogbs, Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:11 (five years ago)
Thing with Beefheart is that people are told to start with Trout Mask Replica, which I like but it is really enough to put almost anyone off. Better listen to Mirror Man or even Safe As Milk, TBH I'm much more likely to put those on, might even say they are better records, if less 'interesting' ones.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:24 (five years ago)
No no no, don't start with Mirror Man!
― Soup on my lanyard (Tom D.), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:27 (five years ago)
I wasn't excluding you from anything, YMP. People are allowed to respond to other people's suggestions on this thread, as has happened with some of mine.
― No language just sound (Sund4r), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:28 (five years ago)
yeah you'd get way more people into Beefheart by starting with "Tropical Hot Dog Night" rather than anything on Trout Mask Replica, which comes off as being confrontational within the first 10 seconds. its such a weird & unique record, 50 years later there's still nothing quite like it. but the fact that it eclipses the rest of his discography sucks
― frogbs, Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:31 (five years ago)
Mirror Man is the best Beefheart LP, I will fight you. Kandy Korn is in top 5 achievements of humanity so far.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:36 (five years ago)
thread to ILM pls, if this break ILX I'll pay doublr
― Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:37 (five years ago)
Agree about Kandy Korn. Anyway the album is nothing like anything else he ever did, using it as an introduction to Beefheart seems a bit misguided.
― Soup on my lanyard (Tom D.), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:38 (five years ago)
TMR is perfectly accessible and obv you might point newbies there because it represents a kind of Beefheartianness which is most unique to him. You could say of any artist - if you don't like that work try a different one
― a very powerful woman in the dog world (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:38 (five years ago)
"Better listen to Mirror Man or even Safe As Milk"
funnily enough my introduction to Beefheart was a twin vinyl album-pack of these 2 albums - both classic!
― calzino, Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:42 (five years ago)
My introduction to him was Bluejeans & Moonbeams, which my dad had when I was a kid. I still like it, but have learned that this opinion will not win me any friends.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:44 (five years ago)
I like all of his albums fwiw.
― Soup on my lanyard (Tom D.), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 19:48 (five years ago)
Safe As Milk is the best intro imo, good to see how it started and where it went next. If somebody can't enjoy "Zig Zag Wanderer" or "Dropout Boogie" right away then what else does Beefheart have for them? (In no way could Beefheart be considered overrated, either, imo, if anything his "weaker" albums are super underrated)
― that said, I’d prefer a single serving of you (flamboyant goon tie included), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 20:18 (five years ago)
Safe As Milk is just so ridiculously good.
― calzino, Wednesday, 18 December 2019 20:28 (five years ago)
Love Safe As Milk...it's probably my fave Beefheart.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 20:41 (five years ago)
Never heard Safe As Milk. For me the most immediately palatable Beefheart album is Doc At The Radar Station. Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller) is also pretty geared toward "normal" ears, but I hate it.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 21:04 (five years ago)
the mirror man stuff is awesomeEveryone should just go watch that live on tv beef heart thing on YouTube, it’s so fucking legit
― brimstead, Wednesday, 18 December 2019 22:02 (five years ago)
ian svenonius
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 31 December 2019 00:37 (five years ago)
I don't think of Ian as being overrated at all. he seems more just like... a guy I sometimes see in CVS
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 31 December 2019 00:41 (five years ago)
Even before all the heinous TERF shit: JK Rowling.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 31 December 2019 00:42 (five years ago)
can we turn this meta or
― Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Tuesday, 31 December 2019 00:47 (five years ago)
'turn'
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 31 December 2019 00:48 (five years ago)
link?
― Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Tuesday, 31 December 2019 00:54 (five years ago)
People You Suspect Are Frighteningly Overrated But Don't Actually Know Enough About To Say So
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 31 December 2019 00:56 (five years ago)
Philip Pullman seems like a completely useless arsehole to me, yet I have been transfixed by the Simon Russell Beale reading of his latest book on R4 tonight. must be the gin!
― calzino, Tuesday, 31 December 2019 01:03 (five years ago)
neil innes, tbh
― Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Tuesday, 31 December 2019 01:06 (five years ago)
didn't want to say tbh... but yes! Can't think of anything i'd least like to hear in music!
― calzino, Tuesday, 31 December 2019 01:08 (five years ago)
John Cage
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 31 December 2019 01:43 (five years ago)
John Cage is still underrated imo
― Dan S, Tuesday, 31 December 2019 01:45 (five years ago)
he is the dividing point, compositions can be separated into before John Cage and after John Cage
― Dan S, Tuesday, 31 December 2019 01:55 (five years ago)
That kind of talk very much corroborates Aimless's hunch.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 31 December 2019 02:00 (five years ago)
get your point, but don't agree
― Dan S, Tuesday, 31 December 2019 02:07 (five years ago)
I think Cage is our Bach
― Dan S, Tuesday, 31 December 2019 02:14 (five years ago)
Jandek
― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Saturday, 11 January 2020 11:33 (five years ago)
Good one
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 11 January 2020 15:06 (five years ago)
Cage's "rating" is kind of skewed? His actual compositions are underrated, his importance as a thinker is correctly rated, his spoken word recordings are overrated
I can't really think of a more perfect piece of music than this, really:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwJLGUgs1jc
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:17 (five years ago)
I feel like "Silence" and "4'33"" and his ideologies and comments about Glenn Branca etc. (and even his mycological pursuits) kind of loom too large over an amazing body of compositions
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:20 (five years ago)
It's very nice, but I kind of feel like I can't really hear it, because I've heard too many other things influenced by it, as well as things it was influenced by? Like, I hear Philip Glass, but I also hear traditional Japanese music, and it's hard to separate out those things and determine what exactly is "John Cage music" about it...
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Saturday, 11 January 2020 20:44 (five years ago)
Ah I knew we'd been talking about Beefheart somewhere. Anyway, I just found Clear Spot s/h and I was very pleased. I love the title track, 'Her Eyes' and 'My Head Is My Only House'. Yes, Troutmask is phenomenal, mindblowing, but it is a shame it managed to eclipse a lot of his other work.
― doorstep jetski (dog latin), Monday, 20 January 2020 13:45 (five years ago)
I just read 1970s rock producer Ted Templeman's autobiography — he's probably best known for working with Van Halen and the Doobie Brothers, but he also produced Clear Spot and has some amusing/horrifying stories about working with the Beef.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Monday, 20 January 2020 14:03 (five years ago)
it makes me wonder how people like Beefheart, Spector, James Brown, Sun Ra, Mingus and other known taskmasters and music bullies managed to keep any musicians around them. The jazz and funk greats, sure, I understand the prestige of working with them would have commanded a high level of work, but how did Van Vliet get away with the way he treated his band back in the day - especially when what they were working on hardly promised much in the way of commercial reward.
― doorstep jetski (dog latin), Monday, 20 January 2020 14:13 (five years ago)
lads ye have a board
― Catherine, Boner of JP Sweeney & Co (darraghmac), Monday, 20 January 2020 14:19 (five years ago)
(xp) Pretty sure most of the musicians who worked with the 'hard taskmasters' you mentioned never got much in the way of commercial rewards. I suppose if you played with James Brown you got to play to large appreciative crowds more often.
― Frozen Mug (Tom D.), Monday, 20 January 2020 14:29 (five years ago)
Beefheart's the one that mystifies me though - why didn't his band just say, you know, 'sod this'? I never really read the full story of what went on during Troutmask but it sounded horrific.
― doorstep jetski (dog latin), Monday, 20 January 2020 14:36 (five years ago)
The Sun Ra Arkestra really seems to have been a cult that happened to make music. I interviewed Marshall Allen and Danny Ray Thompson recently, and both of them talked with real fervor about how Ra had taught them to "put their egoes aside" and "serve him and the music" - it was straight-up cult talk.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Monday, 20 January 2020 14:39 (five years ago)
like Hitchcock's attitude to actors, some of these jobbing run of the mill musos deserve to be treated like cattle or minimum wage production line workers - it might even make them better!
― calzino, Monday, 20 January 2020 14:42 (five years ago)
I don't have anything to add here but I will say I just found out that if you listen to Beefheart at 45 RPM he sounds like Eric Cartman
― frogbs, Monday, 20 January 2020 15:24 (five years ago)
I'm looking forward to trying that out later.
― doorstep jetski (dog latin), Monday, 20 January 2020 15:30 (five years ago)
The Trout Mask band were teenagers, from a small backwater town, Beefheart was 10 years older than them and a very cultured and artistic guy - as well as being charismatic and manipulative. All of them say they learned a lot from him and would have been probably stuck in Lancaster playing in lame blues rock bar banda otherwise. Bill Harkleroad said he was actually rescued from some sort of LSD cult by joining Beefheart's band! When they got older they did tell him to sod off. Also, like the later bands and unlike the very earliest Magic Band, they were already fans when they joined - though the dynamic in the later bands was different.
― Frozen Mug (Tom D.), Monday, 20 January 2020 15:35 (five years ago)
Sounds like later iterations of The Fall.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 20 January 2020 15:36 (five years ago)
But with added 60ss communal living bullshit.
― Frozen Mug (Tom D.), Monday, 20 January 2020 15:40 (five years ago)
As OTM as any opinion that has ever been posted.
The fact that you can hear Philip Glass when you listen to Cage keyboard pieces from decades before Glass was writing is itself telling, though, admittedly, I also think Cage was generally much better than Glass.
― One must put up barriers to keep oneself intact (Sund4r), Monday, 20 January 2020 15:44 (five years ago)
For real. Sonatas and Interludes (Cage) is second only to Concord Sonata (Ives) for the finest 20th c. solo piano compositions in my book
― Montegays and Capulez (flamboyant goon tie included), Monday, 20 January 2020 17:02 (five years ago)
It was #1 on my ballot when we did the modern notated music poll.
― One must put up barriers to keep oneself intact (Sund4r), Monday, 20 January 2020 17:52 (five years ago)
Neil Simon. the odd couple's great, but I suspect the high profile of almost all of the rest of his stuff reflects the hegemony and narcissism of NYC critics
― Dan I., Monday, 23 March 2020 23:16 (five years ago)
Donna Tartt
― coco vide (pomenitul), Monday, 23 March 2020 23:17 (five years ago)
Neil Simon couldn't write character to save his life. I've only done one of his shows (Odd Couple), which actually was one of his better efforts in that regard, but almost every character in his other plays is just a vector for one of his witty one liners to where everybody is antiseptic and indistinguishable from each other.
there are moments like that in any good play, sure, but you have to be able to just write a normal-assed conversation that hooks people too. basically Laughter on the 23rd Floor sums him up real well. good at one-liners, not so much as writing fully-thought out scripts.
― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 March 2020 23:21 (five years ago)
Tartt totally
― love will keep us apart (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 23 March 2020 23:38 (five years ago)
Woody Allen. My tastes in film/music/food/etc align almost exactly with my sister, but she loves classic era Woody Allen whereas I haven't been able to get thru a whole movie.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:12 (five years ago)
Mike Leigh
― akb23 (Matt #2), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:16 (five years ago)
I can imagine being bored by even Annie Hall, but Take The Money And Run is a joy to watch, or was until he spoiled it by being a creep or much worse, oh well.
Mike Leigh has made a few mis-steps, but is still a brilliant film-maker, one of the best.
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:20 (five years ago)
I wasn't bored by him, think I just get really annoyed by whiny ppl who make a big deal out of every lil thing and afaik that's his whole schtick
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:24 (five years ago)
xpI thought his Peterloo movie was underrated by most critics and deserved much better reviews than it got.
― calzino, Friday, 27 March 2020 17:25 (five years ago)
Leigh is very much among the best. Allen made some great films but I'd close the door after Manhattan Murder Mystery.
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:25 (five years ago)
Leigh is a dick who's made a bunch of great film imo
over-rated is silly anyway
― Let's kill the Queen and be legends (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:26 (five years ago)
overrated is silly and stupid and can fuck off, yes.
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:37 (five years ago)
“Overrated” is annoying enough, this thread really takes it to the next level
― brimstead, Friday, 27 March 2020 17:51 (five years ago)
Mike Leigh is both good and overrated. These things are not mutually exclusive. Also 'overrated' is an ugly albeit necessary word in the verbal toolbox of cultural justice.
― coco vide (pomenitul), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:53 (five years ago)
there is no excuse for ever using it
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:53 (five years ago)
tick
― Let's kill the Queen and be legends (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:54 (five years ago)
Excuses are overrated.
― coco vide (pomenitul), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:54 (five years ago)
Ticks not so much.
pls tell me more about this "overrated is a stupid concept" theory, it's blowing my mind
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:54 (five years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNGUYpLCSbU
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:56 (five years ago)
while we're here, because why not? if anybody's ever seen the TV adaptation of The Buddha of Suburbia is the manipulative bi director Mike Leigh? because that's always been my guess
― Let's kill the Queen and be legends (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:56 (five years ago)
sory just read your think Granny. well fuck it, "over-rated" always feels like a projection about whether you think too many people like a thing, and even if you could statistaclly back up that thought, popularity isn't a measure of your own enjoyment?
― Let's kill the Queen and be legends (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 March 2020 17:59 (five years ago)
might be better to talk about here: what is OVERRATED?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:01 (five years ago)
I agree w that tho
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:02 (five years ago)
we're on the same page yeah, i've just had a few
― Let's kill the Queen and be legends (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:03 (five years ago)
Woody Allen made an impressive amount of very good movies, that I plan never to watch again.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:03 (five years ago)
it's a magic word which says your opinion is better than everyone else's and demonstrates that it is if not worse, at least worse informed and lazily communicated
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:04 (five years ago)
and that's why I brought up my sister: it's less "these ppl are all wrong about this artist" and more "hmm I generally agree with these ppl so what am I missing wrt this artist?"
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:04 (five years ago)
xps
like it's better to say "i don't like it" than "over-rated" and then beyond thst it's even better to jit sat why
― Let's kill the Queen and be legends (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:05 (five years ago)
it's the WORST FUCKING WORD tho, truth
You know who's overrated? The Beatles. The Beatles are overrated.
― coco vide (pomenitul), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:08 (five years ago)
We've been through why this thread is not really an "who's overrated?" thread, but let's be honest, it is absolutely a "who's overrated" thread, it's there in the title.
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:08 (five years ago)
popularity isn't a measure of your own enjoyment?
I have no problem loving stuff that gets almost no recognition or, for that matter, even a lot of negative criticism. But I am a social creature and it's always better to share a love or dislike of something with fellow humans than not. Like I wish ILM loved, say, People Under the Stairs like I do but at the same time I'm not going to not love them because ILM doesn't.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:10 (five years ago)
'Overrated' is underrated imho.
― coco vide (pomenitul), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:10 (five years ago)
100%. I may be kidding myself but I don't think I ever use the word "in the wild" as it were.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:11 (five years ago)
yeah "overrated" is the kind of word you see online constantly but almost never hear anyone actually say out loud, probably because it's kind of an off-putting thing to just drop into a normal conversation
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:18 (five years ago)
john bergerterry teachoutjeff speck
― budo jeru, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:47 (five years ago)
Never heard of them before briefly googling their names just now, otm.
― coco vide (pomenitul), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:50 (five years ago)
Dan Fogelman
Like I have no evidence to support this beyond everyone going wild over This Is Us and meanwhile I come across a synopsis once in awhile and it just sounds like laughable faux meaningful tragedy porn, and it also sounds exactly like his film Life Itself, which was critically panned tragedy porn.
― omar little, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:57 (five years ago)
It implied you’re a fucking expert who can understand all art or something, someone who can’t not have an opinion on everything
― brimstead, Friday, 27 March 2020 23:31 (five years ago)
impliesre:overratedI’m done
― brimstead, Friday, 27 March 2020 23:32 (five years ago)
tragedy porn.... is that what “the haunting of hill house” is? god I hated that
I just don’t think people realize how tryhard and mock intellectual they sound when they go overrated. it’s kinda like pronouncing loanwords with a labored fake accent or that scene in Five Easy Pieces
― brimstead, Friday, 27 March 2020 23:35 (five years ago)
still better than dan fogelberg tho
― budo jeru, Friday, 27 March 2020 23:35 (five years ago)
John Berger?
Get the fuck out
― Let's kill the Queen and be legends (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 March 2020 23:38 (five years ago)
overrated works ok with young athletes that have “potential” I guess, like I always thought Bryce Harper was overrated
― brimstead, Friday, 27 March 2020 23:40 (five years ago)
I mean do what the fuck you wanna do but this is one of ILX's top 5 conceptually dipshit threads
― Let's kill the Queen and be legends (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 March 2020 23:42 (five years ago)
John Berger?Get the fuck out
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 27 March 2020 23:52 (five years ago)
False metal is overrated.
I do believe that loss of life should happen to those who practice it.
― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Saturday, 28 March 2020 01:23 (five years ago)
five easy pieces
― ole uncle tiktok (darraghmac), Saturday, 28 March 2020 01:29 (five years ago)
josh homme
i *want* to get it, but somehow i never do*
― mookieproof, Saturday, 28 March 2020 03:31 (five years ago)
god I love his tone on Sky Valley so so much. It has this dodge challenger-like purr that’s amazing. Maybe it’s just the mix with the bass guitar.
― brimstead, Saturday, 28 March 2020 03:36 (five years ago)
the s/t bikini cover QOTSA album is so fucking classic
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:12 (five years ago)
Fiona Apple
*hides*
― triggercut, Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:43 (five years ago)
I won't speak for Fiona Apple, but her sister, the cabaret singer Maude Maggart, is underrated
― Josefa, Saturday, 28 March 2020 05:11 (five years ago)
Re: Homme, Veronica Moser nailed it on the Era Vulgaris thread:
Finally, I don't find myself missing Alfredo, Nick or Grohl. I'm rooting for Homme…he's a swell dude and one that gets to do what he wants (whether I like what he does at a particular time or not) and more often than not, he makes really eccentric, tweaked, often songful and well recorded rock and roll music with awesome guitar sounds that lots of people dig . He's like the R. Kelly of rock…he's got the hot hands, but none of the pooing and pissing on little girls (at least, not that I know of)…― Veronica Moser, Monday, June 11, 2007 4:30 PM (twelve years ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Veronica Moser, Monday, June 11, 2007 4:30 PM (twelve years ago) bookmarkflaglink
Still, I haven't forgave him for kicking that photographer.
― "...And the Gods Socially Distanced" (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 28 March 2020 05:50 (five years ago)
Christopher Hitchens. A good talker, a good reader, but not a particularly good writer. And as 'God is Not Great' showed, not a deep or subtle thinker. Not much of a thinker at all.
― gravalicious, Saturday, 28 March 2020 12:07 (five years ago)
I interviewed him once and he was a lot of fun to talk to but yeah, his arguments kinda fell apart once I read the transcript back.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Saturday, 28 March 2020 13:58 (five years ago)
Hitchens seemed to be basically a fun guy to talk to at a bar and that's about it
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 28 March 2020 14:07 (five years ago)
He was basically a journalist tho, different kind of writing than academic rigour.
― Let's kill the Queen and be legends (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 28 March 2020 14:16 (five years ago)
Emily St. John Mandel
― Publius Covidius Naso (pomenitul), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 21:00 (five years ago)
John Cooper Clarke
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Sunday, 26 April 2020 11:50 (five years ago)
No.
― The Corbynite Maneuver (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 April 2020 12:08 (five years ago)
Richard E Grant.
I don't know for sure, as I haven't seen his films for some time...But he slightly depresses me. This is because I sense that he regards his incredible 1000-watts smile that he does that lights up his face as his USP - and does it in all circumstances like a well-trained pro who tired of it years ago.
― Luna Schlosser, Friday, 1 May 2020 13:01 (five years ago)
Terrence Malick
― pomenitul, Friday, 1 May 2020 13:05 (five years ago)
^ Yup
― jmm, Friday, 1 May 2020 13:12 (five years ago)
This is probably more for a 'thing that really irritates you and christ why do the have so much acclaim' thread but jesus, Half Man Half Biscuit.
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Friday, 1 May 2020 13:17 (five years ago)
Shit whimsy in general.
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Friday, 1 May 2020 13:18 (five years ago)
https://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/images/reviews/190/1268772050_1.jpg
Hey!
― Luna Schlosser, Friday, 1 May 2020 14:11 (five years ago)
Just giving myself a slap for clicking on this thread again
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 1 May 2020 14:16 (five years ago)
giving Chinaski a slap, then myself, then leaving
― imago, Friday, 1 May 2020 14:35 (five years ago)
I'm happy they're there, putting out their scabrous take on Millets, Stephen Hendry's hair (probably) and fish and chips every year but sometimes you just gotta say it! I'm glad I said it. I feel cleansed.
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Friday, 1 May 2020 14:36 (five years ago)
Half Man Half Biscuit get a pass for being the only band to ever mention Chatteris, the bleak Norfolk town I spent my pre-teens having to visit on occasion, in song.
― help yourself to another slice of apple ... crumble (Willl), Friday, 1 May 2020 14:38 (five years ago)
Although mentioning Chatteris in song is shit whimsy so pass revoked
― help yourself to another slice of apple ... crumble (Willl), Friday, 1 May 2020 14:39 (five years ago)
Grayson Perry
― fetter, Friday, 1 May 2020 14:58 (five years ago)
b-but i thought amateurish mediocrity was what made brit-art so distinctly erm... shite!
― calzino, Friday, 1 May 2020 15:21 (five years ago)
Yes, Grayson Perry, don't get him at all.
― The Corbynite Maneuver (Tom D.), Friday, 1 May 2020 16:35 (five years ago)
His Reith lectures were great, his tv shows are very thoughtful, he seems to be a natural at connecting with different sections of society and uses that to feed interesting ideas into his art. But I don't care for his art.
― a slice of greater pastry (ledge), Friday, 1 May 2020 16:42 (five years ago)
Of all the 'graphic novels' by celebrity names who know fuck all about making comics, Grayson Perry's is, by some distance, the worst I've ever seen.
― Ward Fowler, Friday, 1 May 2020 16:53 (five years ago)
I listened to him on Richard Herring (yes, I know) and he was a bit 'you can't say anything any more; I like to go on Twitter and wind people up'. Meh/
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Friday, 1 May 2020 17:33 (five years ago)
oh yeah, in the “ideas, but in comic form” stakes I’d submit Bjarke Ingels, who has been showing his entire ass to the field of architecture lately
― mh, Friday, 1 May 2020 17:56 (five years ago)
This is probably more for a 'thing that really irritates you and christ why do the have so much acclaim' thread
― brimstead, Friday, 1 May 2020 18:19 (five years ago)
Oh wait it’s more self congratulatory
― brimstead, Friday, 1 May 2020 18:20 (five years ago)
Aristotle
― COVID and the Gang (jim in vancouver), Friday, 1 May 2020 18:24 (five years ago)
xp It's an "overrated" thread - if you have any awareness that your opinion might be at all subjective, you have to leave that shit at the door, it harshes everyone else's rage buzz.
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 1 May 2020 18:26 (five years ago)
aristotle is surely the smartest person to have been wrong about everything
― The Cognitive Peasant (ogmor), Friday, 1 May 2020 18:35 (five years ago)
― The Cognitive Peasant (ogmor)
excuse me the ghost of athanasius kircher would like to have a few words with you
― Kate (rushomancy), Friday, 1 May 2020 18:39 (five years ago)
Syd Barrett
― the grateful dead can dance (anagram), Friday, 1 May 2020 18:42 (five years ago)
Tbf the same could be said of Plato.xp
― pomenitul, Friday, 1 May 2020 18:44 (five years ago)
Syd Barrett’s eyes are underrated
― brimstead, Friday, 1 May 2020 18:53 (five years ago)
anagram outed as Roger Waters
― k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Friday, 1 May 2020 18:54 (five years ago)
if you have any awareness that your opinion might be at all subjective, you have to leave that shit at the door, it harshes everyone else's rage buzz.
That describes like 90% of ilx tho
― Rodent of usual size (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 1 May 2020 19:05 (five years ago)
Ban all opinions imo.
― pomenitul, Friday, 1 May 2020 19:09 (five years ago)
xp nah, about 5% of ILM, max
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 1 May 2020 19:27 (five years ago)
The Shaggs
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Monday, 4 May 2020 03:17 (five years ago)
they taught me who parents are!
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 4 May 2020 05:02 (five years ago)
and gave me my philosophy of the world!
― My Chess Hustler (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 4 May 2020 05:04 (five years ago)
eileen myles
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 18:53 (five years ago)
yes
― adam, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 18:57 (five years ago)
Wikipedia: Novelist Dennis Cooper has described Myles as "one of the savviest and most restless intellects in contemporary literature."
If this is the highest praise from the most prominent proponent that the Wikipedia contributor could scrounge up, then I find it hard to believe the subject is "frighteningly overrated" by anyone outside of some incestuous little coterie of mutually admiring artistes.
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 19:05 (five years ago)
how about: i suspect she's overrated by the people i know who care about poetry?
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 19:05 (five years ago)
which i know more than a few
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 19:06 (five years ago)
dennis cooper rocks though so now i'm thinking about interrogating this suspicion
recently read Chelsea Girls and it's great. can't speak for her poetry.
― by the light of the burning Citroën, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 19:11 (five years ago)
It's funny to police this thread over the lack of an objective standard for "overrated" rather than the embarrassing smugness of the premise. The micro-scale of Brad's example is slightly more interesting, I think, than those posters above the skip bravely naming Marx, Freud, "All of Krautrock," etc
― dip to dup (rob), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 19:18 (five years ago)
Neil Gaiman. But not Amanda Palmer because, afaict, nobody rates her.
― Is Lou Reed a Good Singer? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 19:36 (five years ago)
Amanda Palmer has 15,674 patrons on Patreon, so apparently some people rate her.
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 20:50 (five years ago)
This thread title describes my feelings on The Frogs. Brought this up on their thread, but seeing this reminded me again...
― Evan, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 21:03 (five years ago)
(xp) She might be a genius, all I know is that everyone ILX seems to hate her.
― Is Lou Reed a Good Singer? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 21:46 (five years ago)
Some people's talents lie in making transcendent music for a niche audience. Some people bring art to the masses. Amanda's talent is in shameless grifting. Who are we to judge which is better?
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 21:50 (five years ago)
I just listened to 45 seconds of 'Drowning in the Sound' and it immediately silenced the part of me that wants to give every musician a fair shake. The album it's culled from reportedly last 78 minutes.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 21:52 (five years ago)
"Amanda Palmer has 15,674 patrons on Patreon"
I calculate that I had probably had that at least that many dumps by the age of 36 if I had a dump average of 1.2 a day.
― calzino, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 21:56 (five years ago)
her lowest tier is $1 and her highest is $250, if her average supporter is giving $5 then that's $78,370 per month, for Patreon alone, no I am not obsessed by this
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 22:10 (five years ago)
imagine getting paid $250 a dump, but only once every 6400 dumpsshow your math
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 00:17 (five years ago)
If I get backpaid calzino’s $3.2milli now, I bet I can make it last until the next big dump drop. Even if I lash out with that bounty and eat meat twice a week, it shouldn’t bring my average down to 1.2/day.
― Bleeqwot (sic), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 00:42 (five years ago)
it's the .2 that really gets ya
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 01:12 (five years ago)
Eileen Myles is awesome
Every time I've housesit for a homo friend I always see some Dennis Cooper novel on the shelf called Scum or Tripe or Bum or something and I crack it open thinking "ok maybe this is the one that everybody says I simply must read" and I suffer for twenty-odd pages of utter illegible nonsense before giving up and thinking that maybe JT Leroy wasn't so bad after all
― it’s been one week since you pissed on me (flamboyant goon tie included), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 02:42 (five years ago)
I did pause when one of the members of my book club asked whether or not I would want to know Dennis Cooper personally
― Dan S, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 02:53 (five years ago)
Bobby Moore― Tom D., Tuesday, 13 March 2007 bookmarkflaglink
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/jul/06/colombian-podcast-bobby-moore-england-arrest-bracelet-bogota-football
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 6 July 2025 08:22 (five months ago)