Milton Keynes Wimbledon

MK was the largest urban connurbation in europe without a professional football club you know, wonder who holds this title now...

So ner.

Steve, what's the largest rural conNurbation in Europe without a pro club?

As for Wimbledon - the AFCW fans are willing to do pretty much whatever they can to hijack Franchise's season, whether it's negative publicity, briefing the supporters of Franchise's opponents, etc. etc.

But, all said and done, I expect in a couple of years there'll be a compact little 2nd division team settled in Milton Keynes, and most people will have lost the drive to hate them. It's one thing I'm not entirely comfortable about as an AFC fan, the constant, apoplectiv loathing of Franchise and all who sail in her.

The key is surely to get some sort of away supporters' boycott working (and I'm sure this is something that Dave B & co have been trying to do). Without the away support, what would their average attendance have been last season?

Surely the idea is that, given time, good marketing and a reasonably successful team, they will gain significant support from the local area. It will be interesting to see if they succeed.

I expect in a couple of years there'll be a compact little 2nd division team settled in Milton Keynes

The past two seasons would suggest they'd be able to hold on to their 1st division status or even improve on it.

does Wimbledon AFC have players who are from Wimbledon?

AFC Wimbledon have a ex-Franny reserve player - Gavin Bolger, who is ded ded good.

AFC Barnsley - think it's a bit previous at the moment. Sure, Peter Doyle is a worry, but they still have a club. They want to set up a supporters trust, but seem to think they can do it without talking to us. I ph34r DIY efforts.

Dublin - rumour has it that the Nogs (The Norwegian owners to the uninitiated) bought it as Sham the Man told them Dublin was a shoe-in.

MK City - Irony of ironies, they are owned by a guy who lives in Mitcham. They've been screwed by the Franchise, who've told them to move over darlin', as it were.

Keeping the name Wimbledon - a joke obviously. But they need to tread a fine line. Thbey want to be Wimbledon at first (established club, 1st Division team etc, defo not a plastic product) but then need to move to a more MK based identity. They registered the domain name MK Dons about 2 years ago, and there's a head of steam with the Tory Councillors to get them to change their name. They'll probably move to become MK Dons over the next year, before dropping Wimbledon after that. But we want them to change it now.

Scotland has also seen a team move in the past - Meadowbank Thistle became Livingston.

The biggest and most disgraceful case of franchising was Airdrie United. Shocking shcoking shocking. The Bankies are back though, playing Junior Football from next season. Will be going up to show my support for them.

Right - Cyldebank had been in administration. The supporters had a bid in for it. Airdrie were in administration. Airdrie then went into Liquidation. No club in Airdrie.

Airdrie ex-Directors put a bid to the League to form a new club based in Airdrie (average crowd about 1000). Scottish league decided to invite Gretna instead (average crowd 200). Rumours of machiavellan arm-twisting in the meeting making this decision.

Airdrie Directors then approach administrator of Clydebank offering to buy the League place and move the team to Airdrie and rename it Airdrie United. Administrator agrees, rejecting Clydebank fans bid 9even though the latter is for more cash). Scottish league agree to this.

Clydebank fans end up having to sign the deal to give the club away. Ouch.

Clydebank fans then get offered 3 different Scottish League clubs to do what has just been done to them - ie, buy a club and move it to Clydebank. bankies reject this as being disgusting and vow to rebuild club from the bottom. Fucking heroes the lot of em.

The shame

Impressive figures, Dave. Apart from Portsmouth, but at least they won't be going to Milton Keynes next season.

Surely worst franchise ever = one mentioned upthread that deprived Woolwich of it's gunners??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/luton_town/2948132.stm

Lootun - all sorts of shit going down. Off to a meeting tomorrow. Will know more.

This assumes that a team is the root cause. And not a trojan horse for a massive Wal-mart superstore. Oh no. Never. Wal-Mart have expanded there list of 'things we fuck over to build stores' to now include English football clubs. Cunts.

Really? Evidence for that?

It's my opinion that it will be good for the game of football in this country if the franchising experiment fails. I think football should understand that it's about more than league success or money. I don't think it will be "funny" if MK Dons are successful because I think it would constitute a risk to any club which finds itself in financial difficulties. It takes the clubs further into the hands of financiers and further from the communities of which they have been a part. For those of us who are part of those communities it's not funny at all.

* BRADFORD
BURNLEY
CARDIFF CITY
* COVENTRY
CREWE
* CRYSTAL PALACE
* DERBY
GILLINGHAM
* IPSWICH
MILLWALL
* NORWICH
* NOTTINGHAM FOREST
PRESTON
READING
ROTHERHAM
* SHEFFIELD UNITED
STOKE
* SUNDERLAND
WALSALL
* WATFORD
* WEST BROMWICH ALBION
* WEST HAM UNITED
WIGAN
* WIMBLEDON

disagree in places such as Preston, Sunderland, Cardiff, Burnley [and the team i support Portsmouth] the football club/ team plays a massive role in the sociological identity of the town/ city.

It's simply not true that all clubs are owned by businessmen and financiers, and the fact that the businessmen-and-financiers model is the one which holds sway in the bigger clubs in this country is neither good nor inevitable.

The "purpose" of a football club is more than to produce a good football team. If you haven't been touched by that sense of community that's fine but for you to tell me that the community aspect of football is "window dressing" is insulting.

Representation is another issue, I think.

No I'm not that interested in football, although I've 'supported' Wimbledon since about 1980. OK I shouldn't have said 'all'. I was thinking more of the bigger clubs.

doesn't what has happened with AFC Wimbledon rather suggest that there was a substantial community around Wimbledon FC?

Yes but we're talking max. five thousand people. As far as I'm concerned the owners of Wimbledon, and yes they are owners, are perfectly within their rights to pursue strategies for greater success, both financial and footballing. They have no obligations to a few thousand people who previously followed the team. If Arsenal decided to do the same thing (only of course they already did but it was 100 years ago or whatever so it's 'not relevant') it would be more difficult to argue the case. But then again they wouldn't need to do it because they already have the support they need.

The only one that's ever affected me was the merger between Caledonian and Inverness Thistle. I was brought up in Inverness, and supported Thistle from a v. early age. When a place came up for grabs in the League, they figured merging would be the best way to get an Inverness team in.

This article from a disgruntled Caley fan gives one point of view, but I think he was a little unfair on the Thistle fans, as not many of the folk I know support or had any intention of supporting the merger either. In fact, the merger had little to do with Thistle at all, and most people either went to support Clach (Inverness' remaining non-league team) or Ross County. I just stopped caring. My team weren't there any more.

Anyway, I already have a league team to support. I liked having a non-league local team. ICT will never be anything to me.

Wimbledon go into administration

Wimbledon FC have been placed into administration, leaving the club fighting for survival.

The decision was taken on Thursday afternoon after they simply ran out of cash.

Andy Hosking and Nick Wood, partners of Grant Thornton, have been appointed joint administrators and they are working closely with the existing management to produce a viable long-term solution for the club's survival.

Wood said in a statement: "This is yet another example of the intrinsic problems facing many football clubs.

"Wimbledon's problems have been well documented and like so many clubs the short-term cash flow has become critical.

"Whilst not welcomed by many, it is becoming increasingly clear a move to Milton Keynes is a key element in ensuring the club has the facilities commensurate with its ambitions."

Hosking added: "Over 60 per cent of the club's current season-ticket capacity has been sold and these funds are secure and unaffected by this administration.

"We and the directors believe, with the enthusiasm shown in Milton Keynes and the dedicated efforts of the club's staff, we will in due course see a successful outcome."

Chairman Charles Koppell's decision to leave Selhurst Park for a new home in Milton Keynes infuriated supporters, who turned their back on the club.

It resulted in an alarming dip in attendances, which on several occasions slipped below 2,000 and embarrassingly fell into three figures for one Worthington Cup game against Rotherham.

Now's the time for them to do so, ECFC Trust.

Fucking hell. Phone hasn't stopped ringing this morning; to say the press are having a field day is an understatement. Interesting that thhis happens the same day I'm fucking mowed out at work.

David: Franchise haven't moved a business, they've bought and shut down an old football club and set up a new one. If you set up a club then the way to progress through the leagues is via promotion, and if you mess about with that system then you take away a big chunk of what it means to be a football supporter, a big chunk of the dream. Franchise may be 'within their rights' (they've broken no law) but that's not how I want football to be.

Martian: ECFC have been a losing team for ages, more than a decade, and all but the most faithful / foolhardy have given up. Yeovil have been a winning team for longer than that, and well done to them for interesting their community in their football team. (The people who have run ECFC up to now have assumed that whatever they do the fans will keep coming... wrong). I hope Yeovil do well in the league and I hope we have a derby with them soon. It's my *belief* that Exeter's core support is probably bigger than Yeovil's and that if we had a season as good as the one they've just had then we would have a comparable or higher average attendance. I may be wrong about that, though, and they totally deserve their place in the league, just as we deserved relegation. (A season as good as the one Yeovil have just had is likely to be a long way off, btw).

Billy: yes it's an exciting and scary time for ECFC and the Trust in particular. They have to re-build interest and confidence in a club and an organisation which has been going wrong for a long time. They seem to have started very well and I have to say I'm more excited about supporting our club in the conference than their club in the league. It's not certain that we'll make it to the end of this month, but I'm convinced the club is at last being run by the correct people. Of course, if we do go under, David will probably think that funny too.

Ownership is a bit more complicated but you don't want to know about that. R&L no longer involved. We won't know how tight times are for another week or two yet.

DJM: it's all gone quiet over there.

No, why would I think that?

[it will not happen though]

What a wanker !

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,974153,00.html

Milton Keynes - not by the start of this coming season!

j0e - how was last night's party? Also, what do you (and Dave B if he's around) think of the share issue? Will you be purchasing?

Anyone interested in seeing AFC Wimbledon's TV commercial should go here to watch it. It's quite good.

not sure how much I'll be investing in the share issue as yet - but if it gets us our ground it's a great idea. sorry I'm being so vague but I'm massively busy at work today... :(

I'm sory I didn't make it - I'd have loved to have met some more fans. But I'd have been teetotal too, and I'd have sat in the corner not talking to anyone :)

The moral of this sorry tale - don't fuck with fans, kids.

And yes, Tim's question seconded. I thought that but then thought "naah, how could they become a major creditor"

"If you play by their rules you lose. If you make your own, you've got a fighting chance. But maybe that's because I'm a low down cheating bastard."

Quite. Will be able to reveal all soon...

As for the share issue:

Dunno how it's going or whether the offer will be extended Mark...sorry

Chris - see The Fans Stadium where you can download a prospectus with application form.

The minimum investment is £90, so I hope some of you can find this for a very worthy cause. This isn't about AFC Wimbleedon, really, it's about the future of football in this country. The website will tell you more.

I'm off to MK now. We had a plane booked carrying a message for a flyover, but it was objected to by the police who put the mockers on it. Cheers lads. There's also a fascist group turning up we hear to distribute a 'football comic'. Should be an interesting day.

WTF is this man doing anywhere NEAR a football club?

Later, they announced that there were something over 4,000 home fans, andthe gamewas delayed half an hour due to traffic congestion. And that was against Burnley - not local, not particularly big.

I find it more than a little tragic that the opening of an Asda is a significant matter in football these days.

From one of our planning bods...

This evening I printed off a copy of the main and supplemental committee report as well as Appendix A to the committee reports which addresses the retail policy context.

I have not yet had the opportunity to study these reports in full and highlight all of the contentious issues relating to the scheme and all the arguments in favour of the Secretary of State calling in the application, but I have had a read of the supplemental report and one key thing did strike me.

The 10th April Parliamentary statement by Tom McNulty on Town Centre and Retail policy, which local authorities are expected to apply in making planning decisions, states that:

Proposals which would be located at an edge of centre or out of centre location and which:

- are not in accordance with an up to date development plan strategy; or

- are in accordance with the development plan but that plan is out of date, is inconsistent with national planning policy guidance, or otherwise fails to establish adequately the need for new retail and leisure development and other development to
which PPG6 applies,

should be required to demonstrate both a RETAIL NEED for additional facilities and that a sequential approach has been applied in selecting the location for the site.

This very statement is actually included in appendix A of the committee report.

Paragraph 5.4 of the supplemental committee report for this application however states that for the retail warehouse element of the Denbigh scheme 'IT IS NOT CLEAR THAT NEED HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED'

This apparent conflict between Government policy and these proposals does not appear to have been adressed properly in the planning officers conclusions in either the main or supplemental report, which is odd bearing in mind it is such a significant
issue.

call yourself a city fan ;)

Not sure why nobody told you about it.

Pete you're in so much trouble.

I don't feel sorry at all for Koppel and all that, what they have done is despicable, I feel sorry for the playing and coaching staff.

Is it true though that they're getting bigger crowds now than they were at Selhurst park?

I don't feel sorry for the players or coaches ultimately - some kept their heads down. Others went out of the way to tell the fans to shut up, sit down and support the team. Still others spoke out. But most didn't - they took a position of neutrality and ambivalence. That's their choice. But don't expect me to feel sorry for them as a result of their supine cowardice. They could have stopped this, but chose to carry on collecting ludicrous salaries. As I say - their choice. Many put in transfer requests and voted with their feet, and good luck to them.

Murdoch carries on because he's got little integrity. He could have walked - no-one came in for him though. He was initially refused the job after terry Burton 'left' (ahem) and Koppel stated he wouldn't employ Murdoch as manager. He then does a volte-face and appoints him as no-one else wanted it.

He's constantly been banging on about the administrators making his life a misery - toughy shit. They're only in that position because the the people he choose to work for. The administrators were clearing up a mess that he was silent about, then expects sympathy. If it's so bad, so impossible, and so hopeless, then get a job elsewhere.

Ultimately - if wants the job at MK, then he accepts what goes with it, and part of what goes with it are shite crowds, players being sold and my utter cointempt for taking money and being part of a exercise that has been the biggest travesty and the worst decision in recent footballing history.

Stuart Murdoch made a decision whereby he publicly and unequivocally supported the franchising of football clubs. While I don't disagree with aspects of what you said, he was put in a difficult position but chose the dark side. Personally I don't hate him, or (most of) the players, but my sympathy is extremely limited.

As a supproter of a club yourself who have struggled and faced liquidation, I'm surprised you find it so easy to be magnanimous.

(x-post obv)

When I watched them on tv earlier in the season there were few players in the team over 25 (I think the average age was 22 or something ridiculous) I don't think they're in much of a position to be able to move unless they start shining. or in a position to stop it. What backing were they offered by the PFA if they chose to not play in MK? I'd suspect very little (but would be heartened and would think differently if proved wrong on this)

I just can't bring myself to hat ethe players and Murdoch, I know it's more emotive for others, but what this all boils down to is administrative incompetency and chicanery. That's why I feel sorry for them, it's not even in a wind-up sense. It wa sthe same for Chesterfield Mark, it wasn't the players I'd blame (although I know some were only too happy to get a little bit more intheir pay packet - most of whom left soon after) It was that scumbag Brown that the blame lay at the feet of.

But other players, older lags like Holdsworth in particular, have not only taken their dirty money but have actively supported the move. There are easily enough ingredients for us to justifiably loathe this bastard creation without having to resport to blindly slagging anyone paid a wage by them.

Chesterfield - but the players took it? Aren't they culpable? As for the players talking out of turn - I understand it was made a club disciplinary offence to speak out against the move. That, to me, is something that should have been made an issue. But it wasn't. And why? Because to the players, they really didn't care - Wimbledon was a job, and a temporary one at that. Why rock the boat when you can keep schtum, get the pay, maybe get a move somewhere else. But we all have choices in life, and it frustrates the fuck out of me that priofessional footballers are treated as people who exist in a moral vacuum where choice is constrained and they are never culpable for anything.

Do we know what the PFA (who I know are mostly rubbish) said about the whole thing.

I fear it may just be the theree of us in this one btw

PFA tend to say little in public on any issue really.

(don't think we need to shut up btw - I'm sure this thread isn't the first clicking point for every other ILXor. Though I'd love to see Ally and Jess's take on the situation)

the kids? I don't know, it was mabe me just being wistful about a bunch of young semi-promising kids battling against the odds

when are they going change their name to Milton Keynes Dons?

It's confusing these days.

i thought they paid for it

And so every single point made by the fans 2 years has come true:

- It was about a property deal for a new supermarket
- They will become the MK Dons
-They are insolvent only insofar as the Norwegian debts were the major blight on the club
- The gates in MK are smaller than they were in Selhurst

Pity the people who are the only ones who have been considently right were the only ones with no influence in the decision.

xpost - Winkelman registered the domain name 'www.mkdons.com' in 2000. Who'dathowtit!

It's a halfway house - Winkelman (I reckon) likes the US Football stylee name and thinks it might take off - if not, he'll migrate them further to MKFC in 2-3 years. That's always been part of the plan AFAIK.

I'm delighted the "Wimble" part of the name has disappeared, but annoyed that they've kept the rest.

Did they win the play-off? At least something good came of the chaos that was serie B last year.

There's a thread on Fiorentina

Season ends by bringing the dread fixture about

Oh fuck I missed it <3 <3 go on Dons.