Do you believe any conspiracy theory at all?

Marilyn Monroe's death always stikes me as a bit odd, in that things don't really make sense about it. Alot of people think that there is a conspiracy theory surrounding Princess Di's death. I just think it was a pretty tragic, miscalculated event, nothing more. I think it would be unbearable to consider the WTC bombings as some sort of conspiracy theory, although I do believe there is alot of information about the bombings that has not been made available.

the Illuminati, NWO, lizard people from outer space, etc. - all bollocks.

however, trying to discredit critics of the status quo 'conspiracy theorists' because they don't accept the LIES of the overlords is a massive dud, as it encourages an uncritical acceptance of Bush-Blair propaganda.

Some interesting events that lend credence to conspiracy theories -

the Gladio scandal in Italy (CIA ships arms to shady Italian far-right group; shady far-right group carries out Italy's worst terrorist atrocity)

Nixon invading a south east asian country without anyone noticing

the annual Bohemian Grove get together of powerful white men (witness the secret film taken by Jon Ronson).

and others.

one odd thing about conspiracy theories - back in the 1970s and 1980s people were always going on about the Trilateral Commission, and how it was the organising committee of the Secret Rulers Of The World. Now everyone has pretty much forgotten about it (I wonder why????) and instead conspiracy theorists focus on the Bilderburg Group.

I wonder do Bildergurgers and Trilaterals ever have FITES over which group really rules the world?

DV trying to dismiss 12 foot lizards proves he is one.

Conspiracy theories are hilarious. I read a conspiracy theory once that Marilyn Monroe was murdered because JFK told her that aliens really existed, and that he was assasinated because he was about to announce to the public of their existence.

The DV is a 13 foot Kimodo dragon and he is my friend.

Conspiracy Theory the film is a bit crap

i like the 'Moon landing never happened' conspiracy, and Roswell fascinated me for years but that was always pretty silly. all the conspiracies seem to revolve around the US and to a lesser extent the UK (well, just the UFO things like Rendlesham and Bonnybridge i guess) by and large.

I really like "Conspiracy Theory" the film. It uses one of my favorite songs rather nicely and quotes another one of my favorites to great effect. Jerry has to be one of my all-time favorite characters in film and the fact that he's played by Mel Gibson and I STILL think that is just slightly short of miraculous. It's not a spy film or a thriller, really, it's a stalker love story that makes my inner crazyman feel all warm inside.

Working where I do and doing what I do for the past three years has made me aware of a lot of things I wasn't really prepared for. The WMD Iraq thing was a particularly nasty surprise, but I can honestly say that I think the vast majority of the people working for the government are no different from people everywhere and there's no reason to assume automatically that we are keeping shit secret because we are actually working AGAINST the people. In fact if you look at how much most of us get paid the very idea becomes thoroughly absurd.

There is something to be said for the idea that you shouldn't trust any man of a certain age of a certain color with a certain amount of money from a certain place - this goes for all countries and all governments everywhere throughout history, though, and is not specific to western politics in the least (I realize this last paragraph is fishy).

In college I happened upon the "Secret Society" that ran things - they called themselves the 'Scarabbeans' and I think that's actually something you can Google - later I learned of other similar groups like The Machine at U of Alabama or Auburn or some such (yes they really called it that and yes they committed arson and other dirty deeds) and similar groups at nearly every other large state or private institution you'd care to name. I fully believe that these groups are where people make the connections that get them senate seats and board positions later in life, because I've seen it and I've seen the alumni with their dirty little good-ol'-boy get-togethers. It is some incestuous shit to behold.

My issue with all of this is not the sheer inefficiency of it all; I simply despise the idea that decisions are made in what is supposedly a democratic free-market society that are kept hidden from view and things are justified on grounds that have nothing to do with the real goal. Plus, I want to know where they keep all that goddamned Nazi gold.

I'm not an anti-semite (*ducks*), but I do to some degree suspect that there is a Jewish conspiracy (a cheap word, but accurate) of sorts. I don't know how else I can rationally explain Israel, etc. Seems interesting that two key advisors to the Bush government are Israeli citizens.

Begging: please, future posters, don't turn this into an thread about what a racist Andrew is! I've seen that happen rather quickly. I beg you to start a different thread about the subject, if you are enraged...

I meant "racist" (with quotation marks).

what makes Andrew's comment any more racist than me pointing out, say, that there sure do seem to be a lot of white anglo-saxon protestants running around Congress?

I swear to god sometimes I worry about people, it's like if you point out that anything at all correlates with being "From India" or "Jewish" or even godforbiddit "Black" then you have to put up fifty gallons of disclaimer paint and somebody STILL calls you a racist, whatever, fuck off

I SAID "RACIST" (in other words, I don't think he's a racist).

It's amazing. There is no way to speak clearly on ILX.

quotation marks = notice them.

got it

Funny, though, that - contrary to Millar's prediction - nobody has actually called me a racist yet. :)

That's because you have not displayed anything that would mark you out as one!

NB This is a challenge.

I believe in cover-ups which may be part of conspiracies, but I'm not sure of the conspiracies. For instance, the Oklahoma bombing and the WTC bombings. It's funny how people who record the news while it's happening end up with news reports and film footage that are never heard or seen again.

Come to think of it, i think that chap who gate-crashed Prince William (of Wales - arf arf)'s party was Anastacia, the last of the Romanovs!

In disguise, like...

Speaking of which event I can't fucking believe we were told about it. Prince Willie has a birthday party and it's crashed by ONE PERSON? BIG FUCKING DEAL.

The conspiracy theory industry *still* needs to read their C. Wright Mills. But it's a lot cooler to believe in the NWO's secret Antarctic base than it is to learn that people with similar socio-economic and privilege backgrounds tend to act and make decisions similarly - whether it's Skull And Bones or the USC law school mafia.

Still, I collect conspiracy theories like some folks collect snowdomes or antique post cards.

ILXor is a giant conspiracy to waste my time.

i dont belive in dark rooms, but these people go to the same schools, and join the same clubs, and have enough money that their intrests are tied at least out of conveince sake.

I heard how ILX is secretly run by an elitist clique and anyone who complains has their posts altered to make them sound like some kind of weird mad pony which is frothing at the mouth. I am a sausage. Do not believe what I say!!!! Turkey bastards rule the economy of Swardherdia! AAaaaarrgh!

I was accused of being one of the Secret Rulers Of The Internet, though my powers are mainly ceremonial.

Of course, this is what I want you to believe.

At this point, given the last half-century of history, I'm willing to listen to almost any conspiracy theory involving the CIA and coups/assassinations/etc..

Conspiracy theories are the conceptual equivalent of seeing weird faces in every day objects: we are wired to see patterns and this skill can overload.
If the illusion is carried properly it can trigger strong emotions and, living in a society of spectacle and all that, this aspect of it is key in the survival of this sort of memes. The buzz is better than dull skepticism, serves escapism /the Empire etc

I remember having heard of a study on public librairies that was showing by using a mesuring tape how books on whack shit like conspiracy theories, ufo abductions, angels, astrology, the occult etc were taking much more space than books on science and critical thinking... I thought about the kind of culture I wanted to live in and from there decided to stop consuming/diffusing info like that even as fluffy entertainment, if it can't sustain a scientific investigation.

I'm willing to listen to almost any conspiracy theory involving the CIA and coups/assassinations/etc

You should listen to people who call it history instead of conspiracy theory, search historian zinn for an example.

My father tends toward the paranoia end of the sanity spectrum. So I grew-up listening to conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory (like someone planting a rattlesnake under is porch that bit my brother and almost killed him - Dad was convinced that it was planted because it was a type of snake found in lower elevations - but he was neglecting to factor in that it was a flood year and all of the snakes had moved to higher elevations to keep from drowning). His latest is that the government has taken away his right to vote. Oddly, last time there was redistricting, his house was left off the maps and now he has to vote by absentee ballot as he has no polling station.

But, anyway, the only conspiracy that I can give any real credence to, right now, is that dubbaya is surrounded by people conspiring to tell him what to do. Does that count, or is it too obviously a fact?

You should listen to people who call it history instead of conspiracy theory, search historian zinn for an example.
Howard Zinn is great. Whenever I recover from my last book-purchase spree, I want to get the new collection of Zinn speeches/essays.

Also, I think it's worth noting that I say 'conspiracy theory' without any value judgement on the terms implied. Overthrowing Allende was a conspiracy, and until the last decade, a theory.

Holy Blood, Holy Grail

Is is even a conspiracy theory to believe Harvey Lee Oswald didn't act alone in killing JFK?

I try and believe all of them for at least ten minutes ater first hearing them.

The only CT that ever caught my attention was the Philly X. I don't believe it, but it's a top tale though.

>His latest is that the government has taken away his right to vote.

Its true. States/Munipalities are switching to digital voting machines. The company that makes them refuses to allow anyone to see the source code for them - thereby making it impossible to figure out if they work correctly. Who owns the company? A republican congressman!

>I don't know how else I can rationally explain Israel, etc. Seems
>interesting that two key advisors to the Bush government are Israeli
>citizens.

>Who are you referring to?

I am assuming Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle. Its all perfectly true that the Israel lobby owns congress. Last week, Bush did something right for once and criticized Israel for missiling Hamas leaders. Then congress chewed him out on it, and within 24 hours Bush changed his mind.

RE: JFK

I never believed the lone gunman theory until I read 'Cased Closed' by Posner (or Pozner?). I highly recommend it.

I tend to be skeptical about them. I tried reading about JFK, but the whole thing is just a rabbit hole that you never come out of. I think Oswald did it. Maybe he had some buddies, but if you read about his character, you can understand why he did it. I do like reading about assassins.

I try not to be too elitist about people who do believe them. I think lots of people believe in conspiracy theories because they're living in one - closed door meetings, not getting the "memo", one day someone's working in the office and the next day they're gone, etc. It keeps people from thinking about the environment they're really living in.

I believe officially sanctioned organisations assassinated JFK, America deliberately allowed the Pearl Harbor bombings, September 11th. A Zionist conspiracy of sorts exists.

Hey, Red Dwarf realistically explained the assassination as JFK from a parallel universe shooting himself.

The signal-to-noise ratio on the events of 11 Sep. 2001 is so awful these days that it's probably impossible now to determine what exactly happened. And if anything, whether bin Laden acted alone or not is really secondary to the macro-level political forces that benefited from the attack. That's the more important topic than the stupid Bush allowing the whole thing to go down.

conspiracy theory = we can do nothing so it's ok to do nothing = anti-politics ie

i think they were invented by the [insert cabal of choice] to fuck the left up

Minor weedy example, but I still entertain notions that the Hamiltons were set up on those rape charges by people inside Conservative central office in order to then be triumphantly vindicated so people could then say "look, the Tories aren't that sleazy after all!" The only real basis to this 'theory' is that it happened so soon after the Jeffery Archer thing.

anyone who doesn't believe that criminal conspiracies don't
have a major impact on world events is a fucking moron who has
never read a history book in their (adult) life. conspiracies
are the only way to get things done. it's like they
live in a happy world where the french revolution and
the manhattan project never happened.

that said, conspiracies that work don't get outed until years
or centuries after they happened. so speculating about whats
really going on is pointless. guess we're all just on for the ride.

gee, mark wuz right!

"anyone who doesn't believe that criminal conspiracies don't"
man, those negatives make _me_ look like the moron.

and believing in conspiracies is not anti-political; it's
still our responsibility to vote and care about the issues.
no matter how shitty things, it's important to keep
the flame burning and pass down true ideas to the next
generation. so for that reason, it's important to be
involved in the (corrupt) process. just don't expect
anything to change. which seems cynical, but it's
not. being grounded in realism will keep you from
shooting yourself in the head.

P-2 Masonic Lodge. Really existed. A lot of the Godfather III story involving Lucchesi is really about Licio Gelli.

The thing about most real conspiracies is....THEY'RE NOT SECRET. Say what you want about the insanely prolific Chomsky or the political philosophy of Zinn, but they're not getting their facts from thin air; they both read mountains of reports voraciously. The facts are out in the open - they're just buried where the average American non-policy wonk wouldn't bother to look.

As far as aliens, JFK, Illuminati, and all that Tomb Raider bullshit - it's just that. Save it for the next action flick.

Check the following: Go to google. Type Weapons of Mass Destruction, but don't press return. Instead activate "I'm feeling lucky." Read the resulting error message carefully.

What was that error message? it no longer exists.

try one occam's razor

i totally believe water has fluoride in it, due to those motherfucking 'dentist' bastards. they should stay in toothbrush ads, where we KNOW they're full of shit & can choose to avoid them. have you tried avoiding oral-b? have you tried avoiding tapwater? just guess which one is more annoying.

The anti-flouride conspiracy is beyond me. Fluoridated water is the reason I don't have cavities.

WHY I believe this is bcz from 12-17 I lived out in the country with a backyard well system drawing water from an underground aquifer. At 17, I had cavities. Actually living in TOWNS since then w/fluoridated water...no cavities in the 6 years. Pretty much same eating & dental hygeine habits.

wish it worked for me ;_;

OK - i'm totally drunk and groaned at this because I thought "Now I have to respond," but briefly - fluoride is a corrosive poison. It kills rats. If its' so good for us, why don't they ASO put OTHER 'good things' in our water, like vitamins, calcium or iron?

The people who believe the government uses it to track us are clearly bananas, though.

Also I find myself occasionally questioning the moon landing. I wouldn't say I subscribe to the conspiracy whole hog, but there is something to it. Considering the overwhelming facts, the climate of the times (space race, Sputnik), etc. But then I think, this is the same government who takes 3 months to send me a tax return. So I dunno.

I'm against water fluoridation (it seems like a poorly done system, a blunt instrument), but just because something kills rats (or us) in certain quantities doesn't mean it's bad for us in small doses. Of course if it is it might be better to give it in small doses, and if fluoride is best given topically then perhaps not in the water?

That was a rare situation, the crew NASA had at the time, politics of time & etc. that made it happen. I personally enjoy how MASA's current job is spreading its big fat ass everywhere so every state feels a part of it. ie: the saddest thing to die with the Columbia explosion, back from my home state:

Working with students for 15 years has taught awarding-winning high school teacher Ed Galindo that toilet humour is a sure-fire way of getting attention.

Thus was born "Fun With Urine," the wackiest of more than 80 experiments on the space shuttle Columbia's 16-day science mission.

The experiment, sponsored by Native American students from the Shoshone-Bannock Indian Reservation in rural Idaho, tackles a serious problem for the future of human space flight: how to combat depression in long-term space voyagers, Galindo said.
Fun With Urine, the wackiest of more than 80 experiments on the space shuttle Columbia's 16-day science mission

The solution the students are testing on Columbia is art therapy and, more particularly, painting with urine-based paints.

"To get the students' attention, you have to get them out of their comfort zone sometimes," said Galindo, Idaho's Science Teacher of the Year.

Urine was chosen as a component of the paint because it is naturally recurring resource that would allow for an endless supply of paint for a trip, say, to Mars. For colour, the students learned from tribal elders about pigments from berries and plants, all approved by NASA for space flight.

Students interviewed psychologists about potential for depression on long space flights, studied the experiences of submariners and astronauts and learned the physics of paint and the chemistry of urine.

"It isn't just a science class where you learn just about one science topic. We look at things more holistically, where art is related to science and chemistry is related to art," said Galindo.

Students painted various objects with the urine-based paint and the shuttle's astronauts are monitoring them to see if the paint degrades in space.

Like all experiments, this one has had to overcome its share of unforeseen glitches. The first occurred when word spread on the reservation about the experiment and unsolicited urine donations began pouring in.

"I had all these people wanting to donate and I had almost 114 litres in my lab," Galindo said. "I think they just wanted their urine up in space and they thought it was the thing to do."

xpost to manilishi

UNSOLICITED URINE DONATIONS

Most toothpaste tubes have a warning on them that says 'if swallowed, contact posion control.' You want this same stuff all over your teeth, gums and tongue? No thanks.

I use Tom's of Maine. No fluoride.

I dno't even use toothpaste, maybe this is why the water's worked out for me.

Also, I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs about fluoride, but I would rather ingest one more potentially dangerous thing in dilute amounts and not get cavities than, you know, have my teeth rot out. Esp. at this point in my life when I have 0% ability to pay to fix them.

hi manalishi do you use soap

Dr. Bronner's 18-in-one Magic Soap actually tries to discredit flouridization on the label, that's the one to go for. PLUS: minty goodness.

TOm's of Maine lime mouthwash with flouride is really gross, btw.

i barely brush my teeth & have lasted 22 years without cavities. i attribute this to 2 things: 1)after having braces i became obseessive about swishing any debris out of my mouth after eating 2)after becoming alcoholic i became obsessive about getting enough (largely flouridated) water in my system

success

i don't like to get conspiracy theories near my precious bodily fluids

montreal still refuses to fluoridate its water

Also, I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs about fluoride, but I would rather ingest one more potentially dangerous thing in dilute amounts and not get cavities than, you know, have my teeth rot out. Esp. at this point in my life when I have 0% ability to pay to fix them.

Hm. Cancer or bad teeth, cancer or bad teeth...

I mean that's unfair, I have no idea what sort of thing fluoride, even in trace amounts, consumed over the course of a few decades, might cause. No one really does! But it's true that it might be fine and awesome.

I find the "Jewish Conspiracy" thing fascinating. Obviously there are certain Jewish and pro-Israel political groups in this country with major influence, arguably too much. But you don't hear anyone describing the Cuban exile community in Florida and their influence as a "Cuban conspiracy" or come up with grandiose ideas that anti-Castro Cubans are really pulling all the strings.

Yes, Wolfowitz and Perle are both hawkish, pro-Israel Jews, and yes, they played a role in the planning and pushing of the Iraq war. Are they more powerful than Dick Cheney or George Bush? Do you think Israel, rather than oil/energy security is what really ultimately drives our foreign policy , all because politicians are supposedly quaking in their boots at the power of a sinister Israel lobby, even with oil industry people all over the administration including at the top?

And the fact that people *can* believe, without sufficient evidence, that it's really Wolfowitz and Perle pulling the strings is the product of old European anti-semitic myths, even if not all of the people who believe these things are anti-semites themselves.

Occam's Razor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Conspiracy Theories

There's kids making urine paint for space experiments, we don't need conspiracy theories to weirden them further.

I have to say, when somene thinks WTC dropped due to Bush-planted inner-building bombs, I quit trusting & sometimes even liking that person. I guess I'm on the road to assholedom.

weirden them = weirden the world in general

Fringe beliefs make me really irrationally angry in general, but I especially hate the way everyone who advocates them is either like, "*sigh*, I guess I need to explain this to you retards" or "I don't necessarily wholly subscribe to [whatever incredibly dumb shit] but I think they raise some good points."

when somene thinks WTC dropped due to Bush-planted inner-building bombs, I quit trusting & sometimes even liking that person. I guess I'm on the road to assholedom.

Nah, I'm pretty much with you on this one.

what amazes me about 9/11 is how simple and easy it must have all been to carry out

especially compared to the conspiracy theorists' alternative

"I don't necessarily wholly subscribe to [whatever incredibly dumb shit] but I think they raise some good points."

i think this attitude comes directly from the whole "there are no stupid questions" platitude

Exposing the Alternative World with Reverse Speech
By Michael Goodspeed
http://www.geocities.com/michael_goodspeed/Forbidden_Truth.html


Over the past several months, I've been doing reversal work on some of the most noted figures in the world of alternative thinking. These include Whitley Strieber, Richard Hoagland, Peter Gersten, Sherman Skolnick, Jeff Rense, Lloyd Pye, and Dr. Bruce Goldberg. They are people whom I have long been interested in, and in some cases, have had great admiration and respect for. To say that their reversals have served as a rude awakening would be a profound understatement.

I've been a member of the alternative community for just over 10 months now, since I began doing my internet show with the Extraordinary News Network. I've met and have interviewed some of the people I've done reversals on, including including Goldberg and Rense. I realize that in presenting "negative" reversals on these folks, I run the risk of developing a reputation as a naysayer, a debunker, and/or a Bell basher. Anyone who believes such things is profoundly ignorant, and should be aware of two important facts.

1) Reversals say what they say, irrespective of my personal opinions. I can't coax a person into saying something in reverse that he/she doesn't want to say.
2) I stand to gain nothing by angering the most popular members of the UFO community and other alternative disciplines.

Quite the opposite is true; I am the host of a paranormal internet-show, and need to maintain good professional relationships with all of my future guests.

I think that David Oates summed up the current state of the alternative world quite nicely in this editorial, which is posted at www.reversespeech.com/goodsp.htm : "I have (been) posting Michael's reversals on alternate leaders for several months now. To say they are disappointing is a bit of an understatement. They show most of them to (be) hoodlums and delusional thieves. I find it very ironic that Reverse Speech was embraced with open arms by the alternate community in the States as the ultimate means of finding the corruption in the US government and its agencies, and then it was dropped like a sack of hot potatoes when it began to turn its attention onto the very people who wanted it to expose lies and corruption and found the same lies and corruption in them. This is very sad. The alternate and paranormal scene will never be taken seriously while opportunists and crooks continue to haunt its ranks and they are not only tolerated but practically worshipped by the rank and file."

For those of you who share our disillusionment and frustration with key figures in the alternative world, here are some examples of their sometimes funny and often disturbing reversals.

Sherman Skolnick has been one of America's most famous political conspiracy theorists for the past 4 decades. He is a regular guest on Jeff Rense's "Sightings" program and has claimed in the past, among other things, that Monica Lewinsky is a double-agent working for the Israeli government, Bill Clinton is the illegitimate grandson of JD Rockefeller, JFK JR was assassinated because he was planning to run for president, and that Ken Starr is best-buddies with Bill Clinton and was hand-picked by Janet Reno because she knew he'd go easy on him. What evidence has he ever presented to substantiate these outrageous claims? Nothing to date, though he swears he's protecting the anonymity of his many "government sources." Are these the same government sources that told Richard Hoagland asteroids were going to pulverize the earth on November 7th?

Skolnick's reversals are quite funny, because of his apparent obsession with a certain late-night talk show host who's name rings a Bell. On the July 18th show that Skolnick did with Rense on the JFK Jr."shoot-down," Skolnick says in reverse, "Art Bell will beat the shit." What does he mean by this? Perhaps he's referring to Bell's insistence to "beat" through to his audience continuous hoaxes and frauds.

Skolnick's references to Bell don't stop there. Most amusing of all is his reversal which says, "Bell's been our monkey business, scared!" Your MONKEY BUSINESS? Just what the hell does that mean? To my knowledge, Skolnick has never appeared on Bell's show, at least not in the last several years, so whatever shenanigans the two might be up to are going on in private.

Another Skolnick reversal shows great anger and disrespect towards Art. He says in reverse, "Art Bell fagged it up." I must adamantly make the point that this is a metaphoric reversal, one which reflects Skolnick's own opinion about Bell; we should read nothing more into it than that. The term "fag" or "faggot", like many racial and ethnic slurs, is a general term of disrespect that is directed towards people of all color, ethnicity, and sexual orientation.

The weirdest Skolnick reversal of all says, "Bell, touch my feather." Feather is a metaphor I have found quite often which often has deeply spiritual connotations. It seems to me that Skolnick is expressing a desire for Bell to have him on his show, and for whatever reason, Art refuses to comply.

I have also found two reversals on Jeff Rense from his July 18 show with Skolnick which have given me great pause. I must say, I have long been a big fan of Jeff's; I've interviewed him and spoken with him on a personal level, and have found him to be a remarkably sincere and compassionate person. But I've come to realize something in the last several months; the only way any reverse speech analyst can maintain integrity is to present EVERYTHING he finds, without fear of stepping on the wrong toes.

The two clear reversals I found on Jeff are extremely revealing, and raise some serious issues that people should contemplate. The first reversal says, "Or we'll suggest the bullshit." Funny, since forwards, he was stating a need for restraint and caution among conspiracy theorists. My question is, if he thought he was suggesting bullshit to his audience, if he felt such profound scepticism about Skolnick's theories, then WHY DID HE PRESENT IT ON THE AIR? Skolnick is a staple on Rense's show and his website, and has presented some of the most spurious claims I have ever heard. I challenge anyone to point out a SINGLE claim he has made which has proven to be true. He accuses people of the most horrific crimes imaginable, and never provides a shred of solid evidence to back it up. Why anyone would continue to bend an ear to him is beyond me.

Rense's second reversal is more of the same; it says, "I am a bitter witness," which demonstrates that he's unhappily playing with Skolnick's crap, possibly for the sake of maintaining their friendship.

(Editor's comment: Michael Goodspeed's articles used to be featured regularly on Jeff Rense's web site but ALL have since been removed when he began to ask serious questions about certain alternate leaders. How can a radio show host who demands accountability from the government and condemns government cover-ups and censorship, conduct the very same activities upon which his show is based by censoring controversial opinions himself? This is not only wrong, it is hypocrisy.)

Other alternative figures haven't faired much better under the scrutiny of reverse speech. Dr. Bruce Goldberg, a professional Hypnotherapist and a proponent of such ideas as time travel, reincarnation, and alien abduction, has given some of the most troubling reversals I have ever heard.

From a show with Ken Daschow (The Edge of Reality) on time travel, Goldberg said in reverse, "We train this, the mark," when talking about his therapy practice. This should causes huge alarm bells to go off with anyone even vaguely familiar with reverse speech. The word "mark" is a metaphoric term symbolic of severely dysfunctional spiritual energy, creating dysfunctional behaviour. And what is Goldberg "training" people to do? Well, he claims he can teach people to travel backwards and forwards in time, to interact with ETs from other dimensions, and to relive past and even future lives. The potential damage he might be doing to his patients is enormous.

An even more troubling Goldberg reversal says, "The mark on wolf." "Wolf" is a metaphor for one's deepest spiritual self; it is the prime motivator behind all behaviour. Having a mark on one's wolf is probably the worst possible insight that can be revealed by reverse speech.

When I interviewed Goldberg for ExNews in the summer of 99, I could tell immediately that he is not someone who likes to be challenged. He rants and raves in an extraordinarily agitated manner, overwhelming his interviewer with so much information it becomes difficult to ask any intelligent questions.
This was amply demonstrated in Goldberg's show with Daschow. Coming back from a commercial break, Goldberg says forwards to Daschow, "Ken, I noticed before the last break a hint of scepticism in your voice." Backwards, Goldberg says quite clearly, "I'll fuck with you."

Some people say that the chicanery of Goldberg is nothing more than harmless entertainment. Obviously, this idea is spurious; it borders on professional fraud for Goldberg to take thousands of dollars from patients who believe he can regress them to past lives and/or teleport them to another time. I don't mean to sound too high and mighty, since I've interviewed some questionable guests myself, including Dr. Goldberg. However, I had enough sense to NOT ask Goldberg back for a second show. Why would I want to inflict such foolishness on my audience?

Peter Gersten, the self-proclaimed "UFO Lawyer" who is taking on the US Government in Phoenix right now, has given some reversals of great interest. On a recent appearances on Bell's show, he says in reverse, "I am a sham of evil."

He went on to say, "The weather shit," and "No more rape." In an earlier show from 2 months ago, he said backwards, quite puzzlingly, "Someone needs to pick on." You can make of those what you will.

Lloyd Pye is the founder of the Starchild Project, and proprietor of the alleged ET/Human skull. Pye's reversals are intriguing, and in some ways, may provide support to his story. When speaking forwards about the mother of the so-called star-child, he says in reverse, "The master of the baby." Another reversal says, "The laugh at Eden," which may be an expression of his frustration with sceptics.

Other reversals on Pye are less encouraging. When speaking about his need to raise funds for further research, he says in reverse, "I am arrogant." No crime in that, but it doesn't exactly inspire trust either. He goes on to say, "This will be a Nazi," when speaking of the StarChild Project. I found no reversals on Pye which specifically impugn the integrity of his work; we should withhold judgment until all the facts are in.

I've only found three reversals of any significance on Richard C. Hoagland. In a recent show with Gersten, Stephen Bassett and Bell, Hoagland says in reverse, "The shots said bullshit." Some people have claimed that he may be referring to the "big-shots" at NASA. A far-less encouraging reversal says, "I'll beat Jesus," which some believe is indicative of megalomania. The last reversal says, "Sign the finance," which could refer to just about anything.

As for the King of Late Night himself, believe it or not, I have only found two reversals which are clear enough to present publicly. This in spite of the fact that I've ploughed through dozens, if not hundreds of hours of Art's speech. Many other reverse speech enthusiasts have told me they have experienced the same thing. It's difficult to find clear reversals on any host (I have yet to get anything on Dr. Laura or Rush Limbaugh) but Art is an especially tough case to crack. I found one reversal from a show he did with Dames that says, "See sheep, they make a deal." This is not the first time Art has apparently referred to his audience as sheep; Oates also has a reversal that says, "The sheep, they serve me." I would guess that the recent sales of his book "The Coming Global Superstorm," has done little to change Art's opinion.

The other reversal I have on him relates to remote viewer Ingo Swann. Forwards he says, "We're going to have Ingo Swann on again in the near future"; backwards, he says, "He'll scan their evil one."

These are some of the most significant reversals I've found on the alternative world, and by and large, they are extremely disheartening. People who present themselves as beacons of spiritual enlightenment, truth and compassion are often shameless hucksters and snake oil salesmen. If reverse speech is to have any benefit for the alternative scene and society at large, then it should be used to point out the occasional poison apple in the bunch. Perhaps it's no accident that Art Bell and Jeff Rense have effectively banished reverse speech from their shows. Are they doing so merely out of personal animosity towards Oates, or are they concerned that some of their "sacred cows", i.e. Skolnick, Hoagland, Reed, et al, will be exposed as the frauds they might be?

All my reversals can be heard at http://www.reversespeech.com/goodsp.htm

i love it when crazies take on other crazies

and just wtf is "reversespeech"?

whatever happened to Blount, anyway? Where'd he go?

Schwarzenegger - "Soon I'll beat the law"

frogman: http://www.reversespeech.com/words_of_creation.htm

whatever happened to Blount, anyway? Where'd he go?

-- kingfish, Tuesday, May 8, 2007 12:06 AM (9 minutes ago)

he got too close to the truth...

Although still a new and emerging field, Reverse Speech is already making its mark felt in many areas. It has been used successfully in business negotiations and corporate mergers as means of providing extra information. In the state of Oregon, it has been used in criminal investigation and its results independently verified by DNA testing in one case.

god help us

http://img11.imagepile.net/img11/324moonhoax.jpg

http://img11.imagepile.net/img11/735we-compare.gif

http://img11.imagepile.net/img11/490imagec3b4b2cb-d7b2-4aae-be85-285e433c031d.jpg

so is dubya even more cheekily abusive to hrh in reversespeech?

Who is "you know who" in that picture?

whatever happened to Blount, anyway? Where'd he go?

http://www.fumento.com/img1/fat.jpg

I believe in an unconscious conspiracy by my parents' generation to fuck over and destroy any chance of sustained prosperity for their own children

How about this:

Who benefited from the Tylenol poisoning scare of 1982? Ibuprofen was not widely marketed over the counter yet, so aspirin companies made out like bandits. Like BAYER.

Who benefited from the Anthrax-poisoning scare in the 00's? The manufacturer of Cipro. BAYER.

BAYER, the friendly folks who brought you Zyklon B, know a thing or two about poison.

Excuse me, I meant to write "B4Y3R."
If I turn up dead, you'll know who did it.

I'm not feeling so well...

I believe in an unconscious conspiracy by my parents' generation to fuck over and destroy any chance of sustained prosperity for their own children

You must love those "I'm Spending My Children's Inheritance" bumper stickers.

(weighs the evidence for elvis being alive vs. jesus being still "alive")

(guess whose case is found to be "stronger")

who's Jesusí ?

We at Interosa are constantly on the look for Individuals who exhibit outstanding qualities!
You may qualify to join Interosa if:

You are willing to transcend the body and leave it as ashes.

You work well with others, as one's consciousness will no longer be strictly one's own.

You're committed to uncovering the extraordinary potential of any and all technologies.

You forgo commercial technology that limits instead of expands your consciousness.

You will pledge to have certain memories removed that may impede upon the future that must exist.

You're willing to go to great sacrifices in order to fulfill the Apophis Prophecy.

You value the future.

Pretty much any time you have a group of people who are willing to act together in secrecy using illegal means to achieve their goals, you have a conspiracy. This happens constantly. You know it does.

The first rule of conspiracies is the larger they get and the more people involved, the less chance of success. A conspiracy of more than, let's say, 25 people is just about doomed to fail. Someone will spill the beans, or let the cat out of the bag, or otherwise screw up and get nailed.

The only exception to this rule might be some of the most ruthless and violent criminal organizations, in which category one must include certain branches of most governments. Good examples would be the Mafia, the Crips, or the CIA. Even then, these exceptions are not quite as exceptional as they appear to be, in that their criminal activities are sometomes exposed to light. What you have then is a criminal gang, but it is no longer a secret criminal gang. Look at Bush and Cheney's conspiracy to concoct bogus intelligence to stampede the USA into a war in Iraq. Utterly nailed.

The difficulty I have with most so-called conspiracy theories is that they generally hypothesize very large groups of people acting in complete secrecy. For example, the faked moon landing theory would require dozens upon dozens of technical experts, huge sound stages, and very elaborate plans carried out in absolute secrecy over a long period of time. Not credible in my view.

So, my usual attitude is one of hard-edged skepticism. I find it suggestive that garden-variety paranoiacs classically build their delusions around highly publicized people and events. So do conspiracy theorists. You just never hear about conspiracy theories about boring or mundane things like vitamin price-fixing. It's always about something big and splashy, like a spectacular airline crash, Marilyn Monroe's death, or a moon landing.

You just never hear about conspiracy theories about boring or mundane things like vitamin price-fixing. It's always about something big and splashy, like a spectacular airline crash, Marilyn Monroe's death, or a moon landing.

Yeah, and if this hasn't been mentioned upthread, this discredits other times when people of good faith start to wonder about the difference between The Official Story and What Actually Happened. For example, the fact that the Pentagon repeatedly lied to Pat Tillman's family(and everybody else) about how he died, or what actually happened with Jessica Lynch.

Sometimes it can be hilarious and/or horrifying when really whacked-out conspiracy nuts have nationwide audiences.

For Example:

1) http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7522/mmso4.jpg Bill Oreilly continually going after George Soros and MediaMatters

2) Glenn Beck having the Left Behind authors on to talk about how Al Gore and the U.N. and all the climate change people are actually working to destroy capitalism and form a one-world government:

"Now, I'm not saying that anybody's going to -- you know Al Gore's not going to be rounding up Jews and exterminating them. It is the same tactic, however. The goal is different. The goal is globalization. The goal is global carbon tax. The goal is the United Nations running the world. That is the goal."

24/7 cable newsmedia is a great breeding ground for megalomaniacal paranoia.

the United Nations running the world

Sounds okay to me.

http://www.kevinfreitas.net/img/20050311-09.jpg

yeah but that jedi council shit led to the EVIL EMPIRE

better we have a loose confederation of member states and a prime directive

btw i highly recommend "american tabloid" and "the cold six thousand" to conspiracy fiction fans ... ellroy rewrites american history with a vast right-wing j edgar hoover / cuban gangster / klan / howard hughes conspiracy running the show (assassinating JFK, RFK and MLK)

I fucking love The Cold Six Thousand. I clicked on this thread to see if anyone had mentioned Ellroy. Awesome conspiracy theory fiction.

Who is "you know who" in that picture?

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3034/okwantedwi5.gif