San Francisco and what to do in it

There's a couple of ferry/harbor cruises that give you a great view of things. Can't recommend directly by name, however. I know, i'm useless.

City Lights bookstore? Yeah, you should hit that too.

Isotope Lounge on i think Noriega is a great comic shop, if you're into that sort of thing.

You could always go score at Golden Gate Park, too. That's good for a chuckle...

And, oddly enough, there is an excellent Japanese restaurant down at the Pier 39 (ir whatever) tourist mecca - hidden about two blocks down from the Ripley's museum - on the same side of the road - beautful - traditional service - a real treat.

And check-out Glide Memorial Church, in the tenderloin - wonderful, beautiful, a bit scary, and it's one of the few places in the U.S. that you can share your pew with TVs and prostitutes and dominatrixes and so forth - I love it!

http://www.asianart.org/ the asian musuem is wonderful, almost encyopedic and one of the best buildings in a long time.

And what's the name of that restaurant on the highway that looks right over the ocean? My mom and brother and I almost got thrown out of there for causing a drunken ruckus.

record stores:
amoeba (haight/stanyan)
aquarius (21st/valencia)
open mind (oak/divisadero)

brew brah:
toronado (haight/fillmore)
kilowatt (16th/albion)
zeitgeist (13th/valencia)
call 415-863-8350 and make a reservation for the anchor brewery tour, best deal in town (ie, free and plentiful beer).

music venues:
hemlock (polk/hemlock)
bottom of the hill (17th/missouri)
379 40th st (oakland)

music listings:
zumonline
the list

art:
the luggage store (market/6th)
5024 (fillmore/waller)
111 minna

restaurants:
el castillito (church/duboce) cheap mexican
farolito (24th/mission) cheap mexican
hotei (9th/irving) mid price ramen house
indian oven (haight/fillmore) mid price indian
kay cheung (jackson/ross) cheap dim sum
pakwan (16th/guerrero) cheap pakistani
powells (hayes/octavia) cheap soul food/fried chicken
sawa (divisadero/hayes) mid price eritrean
shimo (25th/clement) mid price japanese
thep phanom (haight/waller) mid price thai
yummy yummy (11th/irving) cheap pho house

uh... i can go on and on here...

this is a start let me know what else you want. i can get the MSP to add some east bay recommendations as he is more familiar with that area than i am...

more record stores:
grooves (1797 Market) -- all vinyl
groove merchant (687 Haight St) -- all vinyl. soul, jazz, breaks. kinda like a west coast dusty groove
street light (3979 24th St @ Noe) & (2350 Market St @ Castro)

more food:
la taqueria (mission @ 25th) -- my favorite carne asada burritos
bean bag (hayes @ divisidero) -- cheap good pasta. get the trieste
asqew grill (1607 haight) -- amazing skewers and mashed potatoes
cha cha cha (upper haight near amoeba) -- great tapas and sangria

don't miss the Exploratorium. hands on science experiments. cool shit. makes you feel like a kid again.

and i know we've named specific places where you'd go, but there are great areas to go shopping in.

obviously there's Haight. Upper Haight (from masonic to stanyan) is a 5-6 block area of commodified rebellion. record stores, food, clothing, tattoos. yada yada. Lower Haight (webster to scott) is a little less compacted, but has a few record stores (more on the dj side of stuff), restaurants, and flea market-y kindsa places.

Union Square is where all the name brand kinda stores are. lotsa department stores, nike town, mall-ish kinda stuff. but there are maybe 5-10 square blocks of shopping and eating there's also a Rasputins music and a Virgin Megastore. and Blondies, next to rasputin, is probably one of the best pizza joints in town.

the castro has a bunch of stuff to do (records, food), but i wouldn't really go shopping for clothes there unless you wanna look like you went shopping at International Male

and then in Berkeley, across the bay bridge, there's Telegraph Ave, which is kinda like upper Haight. there's an Amoeba, Rasputins and Blondies there too.

(you can see from my recomendations the only things i spend my money on are music and food)

you guys gonna rent a car? napa/sonoma are 1 hour's drive north. let me know if you want recommendations for vineyards.
(my favorite tasting room that i'd recommend for you young hipster dudes is bonny doon in santa cruz... about 90 minutes south of SF)

best pizza:
tomasso's (broadway/montgomery) - ranked top 5 pizzas in the USA by i forget who
zachary's (rockridge and n. berkeley - east bay) - unbelievable deep dish / stuffed pies

decent clothes shopping in the castro: Rolo but find a $ugar daddy first.

neighborhood guides

the mission district has decent shopping/peoplewatching between 16th and 24th streets bordered east/west by mission and valencia. bars/restaurants/shops (aquarius is here, as are some of the tacquerias mentioned above).

haight street between masonic and stanyan draws the line between hippy and hipster.

north beach (columbus between filbert and jackson and adjacent blocks) is nice on a sunny day, washington square park, st. peter/paul cathedral, italian cafes, some funny record stores: 101 records, the basement of 513 green st. @ grant is probably the only record store of it's kind in existance. there is one small block of hipsterism around powell and columbus.

more later

Frjtz on Hayes street is awesome Belgian fries, and BPM right next door is maybe the city's best dance-music specialist (smallish place, but they'll let you listen to anything in stock, CDs as well as vinyl)

Also more online listings:
flavorpill
transbay calendar

Now that I'm (kind of) a native, I can recommend a Greek restaurant called Kokkari..."something" in the Financial District, but it's not cheap.

The coffee in Berkeley all smells amazing. Try it for me, as it looks like I'm off the evil bean indefinitely, damnit.

I expect Sean to pop up and recommend Jardiniere in Hayes Valley, as he usually does. ;)

If it's a nice day, get a ferry over to Sausalito, but don't bother getting off. It's full of rats.

Nob Hill = MUST SEE: grace cathedral park (nabisco and chris v. *cry* on cue). also: fancy hotels, aristocratic history of last 150 years of SF, good views, in between union square and china town but it's a hike. the fairmont hotel has a super cheezy (but fun! or ?) tiki bar that has a decent happy hour... $5-6 but very potent drinks.

Potrero Hill:
not too much to see, but if you go to Bottom Of The Hill head up to 18th street between Connecticut and Arkansas, there is a couple good shops/restaurants/cafes... i recommend the coffee place (have no idea what it's called) and Eliza's for reasonable "gwai lo" style Hunan/Mandarin hybrid. Very good. Not sure how authentic you want your chinese food but this is good for SF-style. just west down mariposa from the bottom of the hill is the parkside another great bar that has good live music sometimes.

The Tenderloin:
The seedy underbelly of SF. Don't let it scare you, it's actually pretty mellow despite a high-profile of crime (sex/drugs). Lots of music happenings here: The Great American Music Hall (capacity 800), the Hemlock, the Edinburgh Castle (sometimes great shows/readings upstairs). Naan & Curry (o'farrell/leavenworth) is a easy/great/cheap indian. the big vietnamese place (i'm blanking on the name) on geary/larkin is not bad, the spicy shrimp appetizer will probably blow your head off if you're into that sort of thing.

inner sunset:
centered around 9th/irving lots of shops/restaurants cafes, more of a residential neighborhood. i recommended a couple asian restaurants in this area for good reason.

inner richmond:
across golden gate park from the sunset, there is some great shopping to be done on clement street... try green apple books (clement/5th), the best bookstore in SF, they have music too. there's lots of restaurants/large theatres (balboa/coronet) in this area too...

castro:
if you go to the cafe du norde for a show, head up market until it just can't get any queerer. in the mid-70s the castro replaced polk street as cruiser central and there's no turning back now. the castro theatre is the nicest theater i've set my foot in, excellent arty indie-friendly programming (i've seen yo la tengo and superchunk score silent films here)... beautiful beaux arts bronzework inside, you won't be treated to the pipe organist during matinees, but the evening program is worth coming early for the wurlitzer short performance.

[sidenote - excellent rep/revival theatres:
the red vic - haight/cole
roxie cinema - 16th/valencia [kindly note: check back on this link in two weeks]

PacBellPark
Home of your SF Giants. Even if you hate baseball, you will have a good time at PacBell Park. Sitting along the bay a short walk/Muni ride from downtown, you can get standing room tickets for $8 and sneakily find a seat and enjoy the game. Food/drink is expensive but try the bratwurst/hot dogs with grilled onions at the stand around section 104/105 ($4-$6) if that's your scene. Unless you go on Sunday, you stand a good chance of seeing the greatest player in the game (ever?) hit a homerun into the bay. (Aug 5-10;19-24)

more later

that being said, i still find some great stuff in the bargain bins at amoeba (which are bigger than most stores inventories) it's just so colossal and chaotic that it scares away most people.

(I kid, I kid - post-burst SF is actually supremely pleasant again)

i went back a few weeks later and had the worst experience in my entire life. bad service, a waitress that wispers even though the music is loud, and she has a tongue ring and has a lisp so you can't understand her even if she did speak up. they made us sit at a super small table (like 2 square feet) for 5 people. and half of the table had this artsy rock formation in the middle of it. we had to put our drinks on the ground because there wasn't enough room. the food was good, but the service was bad, which made the food kinda bad.

moral of story is, go there with gygax or don't go there at all.

well, better than smogville. i did inform you that i might be relocating , stop rubbing it in. (JasonD please treat as CONFIDENTIAL! PLEASE)

wrt "the boom"!: The boom wasn't so bothersome (so long as you ignored the establishments that catered to the boomers...) i mean really spencer, nothing says "dotcom SF" like foreign cinema:

"We were kind of the place for the chic, young, Prada-wearing, cell phone-carrying, CNBC-watching crowd, and for a while we were packed every night," explained Bruce McDonald, owner of the Foreign Cinema restaurant in San Francisco's Mission district.

Foreign Cinema, located in a spacious warehouse, complete with a wall-sized movie screen for diners' entertainment, used to serve 400 people a night. That number fell to as few as 30 late last year, as unemployment in the Internet sector mounted and surviving dot-com companies started watching their pennies.

To try to win back customers, Foreign Cinema recently revamped its pricey French Bistro menu to offer somewhat lower priced American comfort food like pork chops.

The film fare has changed, from esoteric foreign films to some cheerier all-American musicals like "Singing in the Rain." Comfort entertainment to go with the comfort food, which it is serving in increasingly large portions.

Foreign Cinema sees its moves as critical to its survival. It wants to reach out to an older, somewhat less stylish crowd that may not have money to burn but has enough to eat out from time to time.

"I do mourn the old days," McDonald said. "Life was a hell of a lot easier and you could count on a lot of money coming in. Now you have to work hard for it."

ugh.

berkeley, university ave and shattuck.

straight off the downtown berkeley bart.

modlang (www.modlang.com) - for latest uk imports. lot's of garage and psych stuff. very pop-oriented.

the comic store next to modlang rocks. i can't remember the name.

crepes a go-go... my favorite crepe place in the bay. i like it because it's not as frou frou as all those dumbass gourmet places. the (dark) chocolate, banana, coconut crepe is just perfect in semi-sweetness, texture, and fillingness.

there's a lot more in this area foodwise, etc. great china. sushiboat (or sushico). thai e sun.

if you head north on shattuck you find the gourmet ghetto where nouveau cuisine came from. the cheese board is the shit there for breads and cheeses. there's a deli next to a pegasus books that also rocks. barney's burgers is good. cha'am on shattuck is really really good thai.

berkeley... telegraph and durant

a 10 minute stroll up from downtown berkeley BART...

amoeba - the berkeley location doesn't have as good a used selection but the new stuff is just as together and it's a block down from rasputin's, which is another large store that isn't amoeba haight, but still decent. rasputins has a BUTTLOAD of seven inches. that's right. a buttload. both of these stores are also in the telegraph area of berkeley which has both moe's and cody's books, and more ... plus lot's of great food.

cafe intermezzo has awesome pbhb sandwiches...peanut butter honey and banana on big, thick wheat bread. the salads there are easily two meals and really good.

blue nile... great egyptian food.

top dog on durant is a favorite for hot dogs and stuff.

king pin donut on durant will make you fat with glee. the buttermilk donuts are pretty awesome. it's also on the end of the asian hallway... where you can pretty much get fast food asian of many different varieties. some better than others... but generally edible.

this area's also pretty well hooked up with vintage clothing stores and stuff and lot's of street vendors with all the dirty hippie hook ups you could possibly want.

Rockridge at college ave... off Rockridge Bart station.

great food... zacharay's deep dish chicago pizza is the shit.

pearl of siam is decent thai.

cactus taqueria is one of my favorite burrito joints... it's right off the bart there. it's probably not authentic enough... but it's all natural and way good.

barney's is there if you want burgers and shakes and curly fries that rock.

there's a dreyers ice cream store here. yum!

also on this stop is pendragon books... a small place that's pretty well packed... and another book store that's south on college on the right that i can't remember the name. both are very tasteful and have a great collection of the latest bits.

saturn records kicks ass. it's a small crowded place. there's a small section of spockmorgue weirdo stuff you can't find most places. it's also one of the best place in the bay area to find collector's vinyl. if you wanna tempt yourself with $30 trips to rarity heaven, saturn will probably do you right. i also like it cause they've got very condensed sections of certain types of music. pan through their punk section and you'll find the best of the best. you won't find the latest or the rare name... but there's a quality you usually don't find at most stores in the area.

i could describe a few other hoods... but but but...
m.

Also, I always eat at a Barney's whenever I'm in the Bay Area. The curly-fries are great for hangovers!

the one great thing about the area is the quantity of different types of restaurants. brazilian pizza? tibetan? afghan? and more... it's all there.

Sushi A'float Restaurant is the one i was trying to remember... they send you your sushi on a little boat....

another thing... with BART, it's easy to stay in berkeley... hit some breakfast ... goof around... get some lunch... then get on bart and go into san fran goof around and then BART back to where you're staying and vice versa... you can really mix and match the locales if you want that way.
m.

i'm not sure if you're going to be in the east bay during the weekend, but you have to go to Berkely on Sunday morning. across the street from the Ashby BART station (where they have a killer flea market with a real drum circle, not that hippy shit you find in Golden Gate park, and you can buy some crazy swords) is a Thai Temple. every Sunday until about 1.30 or 2, they have Thai brunch. it's the best thing in the entire world. everything is super duper cheap, and the servings are huge. 4$ gets you a heaping serving of your favorite Thai food. The mangos and sticky rice are to die for!!!

le cheval (french vietnamese) - downtown oakland (10th/clay)
-one of my favorite restaurants in the bay area and suprisingly affordable
lotus thai (on piedmont ave. near rockridge and college)
-service/decor used to be better, but the food is still good.

there is a really good comic store on piedmont too but there is an even better one on divisadero between page and oak in SF called comix experience, it's got all the small run indie and fantagraphics-like stuff. they have a complete set of meatcake!

bay tours: forget the fisherman's wharf, go downtown to the ferry building (where market ends downtown) on a clear day and take the tiburon/angel island ferry. pack a lunch and hike on angel island, a 740 acre island in the middle of the bay. $8 including park admission and is a nice way to spend a half day when the weather's nice away from the city. the views from the ferry of downtown SF, north SF, alcatraz, golden gate bridge are really worth it for the perspective from the water.

fisherman's wharf: crap, crap and more crap. tourist traps, revisionist/false history (ghiradelli chocolate is something of a manufactured myth), but there is an In N Out hamburger on jefferson (btw leavenworth and jones) if you're hungry from hiking up telegraph hill to coit tower. uh... trying to think of more to write about...

golden gate park: i recommend the japanese tea garden, it's a nice little walking park in the middle of the park. if you want to walk from the haight to inner sunset or inner richmond, this is a good destination on the way. strawberry hill is kind of fun to hike up, you get some nice views up there.

museums:
the asian art and deyoung museums are located in golden gate park but the deyoung is closed for renovation.
SFMOMA is pretty nice, they have a decent chagall retrospective through the summer.
next door, is the yerba buena center for the arts [keep checking back]

The only good thing about Fisherman's Wharf is that the Musee Mecanique moved there temporarily while they rebuild the Cliff House. Haven't been to the new home but this collection is my favorite thing to show out of towners; absolutely amazingly huge collection of coin-operated diaoramas from the early 20th century.

Sutro Baths is my favorite place in the entire world.

Beauty Bar: bring some coke and make a hundred new friends. Yuck.

there was one really good club here but it moved to the sublounge (dogpatch - 3rd/20th).

Make OUt Room is the best bar in the Mission but go to get fucked up, not for excellently mixed drinks (ditto Latin American Club up the street).

they occasionally have good live music here (i saw the m0unt@in g0@ts here 3-4 years ago? jonathan richman played a 4 hour set here as well).

The only good thing about Fisherman's Wharf is that the Musee Mecanique moved there temporarily while they rebuild the Cliff House. Haven't been to the new home but this collection is my favorite thing to show out of towners; absolutely amazingly huge collection of coin-operated diaoramas from the early 20th century.

YES! excellent recomendation, i forgot that it moved... what ever happend to the camera obscura?

oh yes the best ice cream in the world is now located in berkeley: mondo gelato on shattuck right by bart.

ciao bella is my favorite, they have a shop at 3rd/harrison and a new cafe in the new ferry building.

okay, i'll try to think of more when i get back on sunday.

(That said, there are more and more places that "feature" Mitchell's ice cream nowadays, so maybe just keep an eye peeled for it since there's little else to do near San Jose @ 29th!)

Also, I stand by my recommendations. The critiques upthread are TYPICAL Bay Area snob bullshit.

SF/East Bay has a large amount of charismatic, conveniently located "ok" food joints, with the occasional fucking excellent place, in a sparse mire of shitty places.

LA has a slightly smaller amount of not-as-conveniently located restaurants, but they are all "fucking excellent", though surrounded by a lot of shitty restaurants.

Your right, you don't, so keep your insulting nonsense judgments about me to yourself.

The places I mentioned are good fun, and I doubt most people visiting them would have your same elitist reaction ("HORRIBLE hill-dwelling BMW-driving loudmouths", "Clientele are hysterical young people trying to be posh", "Beauty Bar: bring some coke and make a hundred new friends. Yuck"). Your smug, sickening and judgmental attitude reminds me why I left. Yuck, indeed.

so yeah, these aren't necessarily my picks for best of SF but good advice caters to those who are asking for it.

i'm sure someone much smugger than i am (impossible!) will chime in about how great the french laundry is even though they haven't been there in 3 years or something but that's really not going to help clarke and stolenbus (charlieva?) on their adventure.

Gygax spelled out in more detail the reasons why I made the points I did. I really do think that both ceasar and foreign cinema are overpriced; well, foreign cinema is criminally overpriced and I think the food there is not as good as the concept of the restaurant (which is a good idea). Ceasar isn't so much overpriced (although the drinks there are expensive, but they are, from what I understand, well mixed {note: I don't drink anymore}), but it is terribly loud in there and you're more apt to hear the conversation at the next table than the person across from you. Sorry!

The Beauty Bar is a coke den, or was the last time I went. It was fun when it opened but then they started charging a cover at the door. It seemed to be a place for the wanna-be-NYC-hipster electroclash detritus to wash up. It might be fun to visit once though but not if you've been to the New York branch already.

vegetarian:
there are some famous/pricy veg/vegan restaurants (most notably millenium and greens), but here are some other more reasonable ones:
golden ear (o'farrell btw. jones/leavenworth)
herbivore - a small chain: divisadero/fell & valencia/21
legume - 24th/noe

another suprise to look out for:
the tamale lady, a woman (just turned 50 last week) who travels from bar to bar in the mission (sometimes lower haight) has a rolling cart full of fresh tamales (and hot sauce) which is always a treat.

IMPORTANT REMINDER:
don't think because you're going to california in the middle of august that you will be greeted with blue skies and a warm sunrays washing over you. san francisco is notoriously gray and foggy and cold and windy in the summer months. (i spent the fourth about 100 miles inland and it was in the 90s. when i drove back into SF it was 57 mid-day). bring layers. the east bay (berkeley/oakland) is about 10-20 degrees warmer on average. even the east side of SF can be 10 degrees warmer than the west side. again: BRING LAYERS.

As for Cesar, the drinks are expensive, but the food is not especially and it's not always loud in there - maybe on Friday or Saturday nights, but I've had very quiet conversations there and the bartender/owner is very nice. As for Foreign Cinema, I actually haven't eaten there in years, but I had a great steak there once and the novelty of it has not worn off for me.

When I'm staying in SF for a weekend I mostly eat at El Farolito, Puerto Allegre, Atlas, Ti Couz and sometimes Ramblas or Andalu. These are all fine and fun places although I'm sure somebody will condemn who eats there and the "detritus" that hangs around there trying to be cool, when clearly the coolest person is the one criticizing everyone and everything because they aren't "real" San Franciscans, etc vomit.

Atlas Cafe is excellent, that place does so much business on the strength of how good the food is (sandwiches, nothing fancy), amazing since it's really out of the way (not a very foot-travelled street). Ti Couz is a great standby and the crepes are at least as good as you'll find in France. Actually the Mission is filled with great restaurants.

Stolenbus, even though there may sound like a lot to do in Berkeley, I think that most of it can be done easily in one day. It's a tiny town and everything is close to everything else.

Show up at Zeitgeist around 8:00 on any given night, and she will come to your table, feed you an excellent meal for next to nothing, dispense free advice, hug you and call you honey. Best substitute mom EVAH.

don't forget Merritt's in oakland for good homestyle cooking... chicken and waffles is THE SHIT!
m.

Hahaha! That's my (current, until September) hood, Jason. Frankly, that drum circle, or any drum circle I have thus far seen in my brief time in Berkeley, grate like stainless steel on gorgonzola. That said, there are some great swords, and some decent looking used stereo equipment, too (note to future self). The thai temple is key, though I'm not sure why they still serve tofu in the non-veggie section. Make the right choices, and the food is definitely worth it.

Also - the aforementioned comic shop by Mod Lang (British Indie Music? At Extortionate Prices? You should have seen the look on my face) is called Comic Relief.

I also discovered that you can buy a ticket at the UA theatre on Shattuck and just jump from screen to screen all day. That is, if you think The Hulk, Terminator 3, and Charlie's Angels:Full Throttle are even collectively worth $6. Much better, the Pacific Film Archive has an Aki Kaurismaki season at the moment-worth a look if Clarke or Stolenbus are into that kind of thing.

Anthony/Kyle - check your mail (in about ten minutes).

i have no idea if you guys like america's favorite pasttime:

I wish I could say something original about Pac Bell Park, but I'm afraid I'm going to say what everybody else says: It's great. There aren't many beautiful ballparks in the major leagues, but I think Pac Bell just might qualify, especially when the Giants, in their classic cream-colored uniforms, are arrayed about the greensward.

My favorite place in the majors is a good seat at Fenway Park, but now I think my second-favorite place in baseball might be standing on the walkway beyond the right-field wall at Pac Bell, wondering if Barry Bonds is going to hit one over my head and into the water. It's something that every fan should experience at least once ... and the nice thing is, the cheapest ticket can get you there.
-- Rob Neyer

if you have any questions, i can be reached here sporadically M-Th 7am-7pm and Fridays 8am-12noon.

first, you're working too much.

secondly, i'm telling elenor you're using work time for ILX

but yeah, i miss you too babydoll. we should hook up (tomorrow?) for something. i still owe you a night out on the town for your bday. we can invite your wife or maybe not??!?!?!?!?!

8/16 Hemlock - Neil Hamburger/Dr. El Suavo (Australia)
8/18 Cafe Du Norde - M. Ward*
8/20 Grandma's House, Oakland - Friends Forever, Healthy Healthy, Hale Zukas
8/22 Bottom of the Hill - Las Ultrasonicas, Human Life Index, Viki, Mammal

*I will most definitely be at this show.

VVRSSNN SOFT DOLPHIN YARN LAZER in AUGUST:

AUGUST 17TH BALAZO GALLERY, 24th and mission, SAN FRANCISCO, CA 7:30 pm, $5 donation. w/ tenebre, windup bird (ALL AGES)

pet central
660 broadway @ grant - chinatown

walk all the way in to the store and down the stairs in the back to the lower level huge room of aquariums... the most bizarre collection of fish/aquatic life i've ever seen.

the flower mart opens at 5am but that's for trade only. i think it opens for allcomers at 10am. (blame my XXGF for all this knowledge). cut out the middleman spence.

6th st. btw. bryant/brannan.

but I bet gygax knows, he seems like the romantic type.

(x-post!)

and thanks gygax!

I get this image of Spencer using a Peter Saville lecture as the equivalent of a Barry White album.

hahahahaha!

"East Bay:

Thalassa (Dwight & Shattuck) Large scale bar with tons of hourly tables and one coin operated table on the outside patio area. Surprisingly good jukebox, big chairs and booths. Friday nights are all UC Berkeley kids, good or bad depending on your view, but everything is spread out enough that you won't be constantly running into people. Local hero quotient- n/a (hourly tables)

The Mallard (San Pablo & Solano, roughly) Smaller two story bar, upstairs has hourly tables and a nice ambiance, downstairs is more like your local pub with coin tables. Great jukebox as well, several of my friends work there. Local hero quotient- n/a (hourly tables)

The Mel-o-Dee (San Pablo in the shopping center just past Solano) Great old man bar, pool table gets put away around 9pm on Saturday nights for Kareoke. Other than yourself the youngest whipper snapper in the bar will be around 55-60. A Lookout! favorite it's the secret spot for hipsters in one night I was in the same room as members of Green Day, The Donnas, Bratmobile and Bikini Kill. Please note the velvet wall paper while you're there, and the drink specials are a good alternative to all of the fruity, slushy crap you get elsewhere. Local hero quotient- low

The Hut (College Ave near Rockridge Bart) Good old fashioned college/skater semi dive bar, good food options in the neighborhood. 3 tables, two small, one large. Local hero quotient- moderate but beatable

The Ruby Room (14th St and Jackson Downtown Oakland) Good and smokey, lots of KALX DJs spin there on the weekends, hipsters, but it's in Oakland so they aren't the SF style hipsters, much cooler. Local hero quotient- moderate to high, but they're not that good so you can play for awhile.


San Francisco:

The Pig and Whistle (Geary near Divisadero) Good for daytime/happy hour pool, lots of Irish and English blokes about after their Saturday Futbol matches adds interest. Local hero quotient- low unless you catch a renegade Irishman, then you're doomed.

The Big Pool Hall Next Door to the Pig and Whistle a favorite haunt of local teens and such, really interesting crowd, be prepared to be the only "gwai lo". Friday night's it'll take you forever to get a table, but it's worth it just to people watch, put your name on the list and have a beer at the Pig and Whistle. Local hero quotient- n/a (hourly tables)

Kennedy's (Columbus across from Bimbo's) Pretty much the perfect spot, and Irish pub with cheap, really good, Indian food, $2 Beamish and Guinness all the time. You'll pretty much drink and eat yourself silly until you can't get up the the pool table. Local hero quotient- low, everyone is usually too drunk to step up.

Casanova: (16th & Valencia) only one table, but it's a good place to hang out and wait for your turn. DJs on the weekends, good jukebox otherwise. Local hero quotient- moderate, but mostly bridge and tunnel guys that had tables in their frat hall.


Others:

The Uptown (17th & Capp, SF) great dive bar for playing, cool crowd, but on occasion you'll get destroyed by a toothless Mexican who lives in the neighborhood. Waste of a dollar if you and a friend are just trying to hang out and have a fun time.

The Albion and Kilowatt (16th and Mission, SF) good but always crowded and full of random punkers with Napoleon complexes looking to vent their angst with our government on you at pool. The only saving grace is that there is a well dressed 60 year old black man that hangs out there and is virtually unbeatable, great entertainment watching him destroy tough guys, hammered me down in my peak of pool playing performance by shooting in all but one ball off of the break, I got one shot and then it was over.

Zeitgeist (14th & ?) [gygax! notes: Duboce] Huge patio, good food and great crowd, perfect for sunny Sunday afternoons because on nice days the pool table is pretty much ignored."

the ruby room is a crap bar these days (or was the last time I went there). it was fun the first year it opened but rapidly declined. Their table isn't great and there are always a dozen people trying to use it.

BUT, the Mallard is in fact excellent. The Uptown has an okay table in a dedicated pool room and has the extra benefit of being half a block from the studio where I record so i've actually used it. The Makeout Room's table is sloped and too close to the wall even though I love the bar.

was this the relocation? i seem to remember seeing shows in downtown oakland at a "ruby room" in the early 90s... circular bar, a few blocks from what was known then as "needle park".

@d@ml asked me for billiards advice.

there is someplace on 1st or 2nd that will give you horrible indigestion and make you hurl, if you're lucky.

El Metate in the Mission (Bryant and, what, 21st? 22nd?) is a fine newish addition to the list, though I wouldn't say "best".

But Alex OTM about the Al Pastor...

and like i said before i'm gonna see Hollertronix tomorrow night at Milk for 5$. if any of y'all are interested, hit me up.

Saturday:
The Mile High Club, Oakland
The Lovemakers
Secret Synthi
Pink Grenade

My friend Leslie is the super-hott bassist in Pink Grenade (she also posted on ILM once!). Tell her I sent you!

I keep hearing a lot about The Lovemakers! and one of them is like, British. And I don't live very from The Mile High Club and have always wanted to go...

I only have a European camera and need an NTSC cam to dump some footage onto my laptop.

(i've tried posting this message at least 5 times and it keeps doing nothing, arrrghgh1!)

her company is hosting a sample sale this saturday. i guess stuff will be cheap(er) than usual.

http://sanfrancisco.splendora.com/promo.cfm?stage=bdbsf

THE FIRST REAL SAMPLE SALE SAN FRANCISCO HAS EVER SEEN
Why does this sound like disinformation/hyperbole to me?

sorry I almost ran over you the other night JaXoN.

xpost

i say anti-semitism. what, all (1/2)jews look alike?!

I wish I could remember the name of the whole-in-the-wall Indian place we ate it as it was seriously the best Indian food I've ever eaten in the US. Also it was ridiculously cheap; I think the entrees were something like $4 each.

Here's the place we went! It was AWESOME. I have no idea how close it is to your hotel, though.

Ozoke is okay. Go the other direction (west) towards Japantown, specifically Ino upstairs at the Miyako Mall.

Indian/Pakistanian food is all over the tenderloin (the tandoorloin). Shalimar's really good.

Your hotel's neighborhood is VAN NESS/BROADWAY. It's in between Russian Hill/NobHill/Tenderloin/Pacific Heights.

There's a great restaurant near there called Street. Nick's Crispy Tacos is Jax0n's favorite eatery around there. Harris' Steakhouse if you feel like meat.

xpost Ino? I will remember that one, you are the best with sushi recs. I really didn't even consider the sunday + sushi being hmmmy proposition angle though. I'm having a long day.

I'm going to bookmark this thread and try to remember some of the names of recommended spots so while I'm walking around if I spot one I can try it out.

Broadway & Van Ness is kind of tough. I seem to remember a good Vietnamese place on Polk around there (oh I just checked Dan's link--it's called Lemon Grass) and you are a short-ish walk to Hyde St and there are a bunch of nice-ish bistros (1550 Hyde is supposed to be good and I like the tapas at Zarzuela) around there. If you want expensive beef the House of Prime Rib is well uh excessive.

http://sanfrancisco.about.com/cs/restaurantslz/a/tommys_joint.htm

I was kinda underwhelmed by this place but it wasn't bad or anything. There is also another underwhelming thai or vietnamese (can't remember) place across the street from it.

For another amazing meal, try 1550 Hyde, which is walking distance from where you are staying.

at night the place is a club. during the day you can actually see that all the walls are painted red and there's weird ass shit hanging from the ceiling. it's wicked creepy.

doctor to a friend of mine after unwisely dunking his head under the water in a public hot tub as a young man: 'how in the world did you get the clap up your nose?'

Antica Trattoria at Polk and Union is the best Northern Italian restaurant in SF.

Pascal Rigo has one of his Boulanges on Polk a block away and Le Petit Robert, a decent and fairly cheap French bistro style place. On Van Ness between Green (or is it Vallejo?) and Union is

YaYa
2424 Van Ness Ave
San Francisco, CA 94109-1826
(415) 440-0455

Yayha Salih's amazing Iraqi restaurant.

http://www.scionxpressfest.com/images/banners/sf.gif

The Vietnamese sandwiches at Saigon Sandwich in the Tenderloin were super good, and cheap. Not as good as the ones I've had in Seattle, but better than the one I had in Chicago last weekend. The place was a tiny little hole-in-the-wall.

I think the most enjoyable meal I had in SF was at a tiny little Italian place called L'Osteria Del Forno, at 519 Columbus Ave. in North Beach. That's like a mile from Broadway & Van Ness. I honestly liked my lunch at this place much better than the lunch I had at Chez Panisse Cafe in Berkeley the day before.

http://auntcharlieslounge.com/numbertwo.htm

I don't know if I'll go again but it was fun and actually really good, though expensive.

The Yankees are in town.

Cote Sud
Côté Sud is a French bistro located in San Francisco, in the Castro district. Come taste our fresh take on traditional French country cuisine. Your dining experience will be enhanced by a great wine list and attentive service, at very reasonable prices

Cote Sud is proud to serve organic and natural products. The Centennial Commemoration of the 1906 Earthquake and Fire Menu for $19.06.

First Course
Soup du jour
or
Salade Composee-Sonoma mixed greens in house vinaigrette
or
Moules Mariniere-Steamed mussels, white wine, shallots & cream

Second Course
Bavette Grillee-Grilled Skirt Steak, green peppercorn sauce, pommes salandaises
or
Saumon Roti servi avecfenouille sauté et sa sauce citronnelle saffrannee-Roasted salmon served with sautéed fennel lemon grass saffron sauce
Blessotto aux legumes-Saffron Barley Risotto, seasonal vegetables (vegetarian)

Third Course
Poached pear, Port & Cinnamon
or
Crème Brulee
or
Sorbets
Menu is available Monday to Thursday all night and weekends 5:30pm to 6:30pm only at a price of $19.06.

Located at 4238 18th Street, San Francisco, CA 94114. Please call 415.255.6565 or click here for more information. Promotion valid 4/1/2006 - 4/30/2006.

Highway 1 (Pacific Coast Hwy aka PCH)
Highway 101
Interstate 5

Highway 1 will take about 12-15 hours depending on traffic, but has probably the most amazing views and points of interest (Monterey/Big Sur/San Simeon/Cambria/Pismo) between SF/LA.

Highway 101 has some ocean views (Avila/Pismo and then again from Santa Barbara to Ventura) and a few points of interest between LA/SF, but is a little faster: 9-10 hours.

Highway 5 has no views (unless you like flat, hot farmland and a brief 60 second glance at thousands of cows standing atop mounds of their collective feces), but could take as little as 7 hours.

How much time have you budgeted?

I hear about this place called El Lay

the Huntington Library is nice - the Japanese garden especially - but I wouldn't say it's essential. if you go to Pasadena, the Gamble House is an architectural must, Cal-Tech is beautiful, and the Norton Simon is a great art museum. in LA, there's Wright's Hollyhock House, and the Schindler houses in Silverlake (as well as THE Schindler house, whch is ok). Getty is interesting architecturally, for the view, and has some of the best exhibits now. these are all relatively quiet places, as is UCLA if classes aren't on. check what's on at the Hollywood Bowl (and Greek Theatre)? Pasadena is hotter than LA.

there's also Gehry stuff - Disney Hall, obv, the Chiat-Day-Mojo building in Santa Monica/Venice, the Venice Beach House, the Gehry House in Santa Monica, Edgemar and Santa Monica Place in Santa Monica, and the Aerospace museum in Exposition Park (not necessarily worth a detour, but there are also gardens here)

There's also art deco LA - the Wiltern, etc. Which isn't far from Gehry's Loyola Law School. Not the most bucolic part of town, tho.

And why not, I'll rep for Marina del Rey. Embrace the tackiness.

What is there to do in Santa Barbara?

Henry Miller Library is nice, but a short visit.

It's uh... in a weird location, not far from there at all though.

why not?

thanks for the recommendation. the pho was so tasty and had tripe in it. yum.

i ended up getting a room at the hilton for $72 on priceline, which was only $3 more than the grant plaza - some dumpy place in chinatown. what a steal. i spent today going to expensive shops pretending to almost buy things. tried on a $3000 suit and toyed with the louis vuitton salesperson by almost putting my name on the waitlist for that ridiculous gold watersnake / leopard print / LV monogrammed bag thats like $4500.

youn, you live in SF?

jaxon, you guys goig out? i think im gonna try to go to tubesteak tonite or, uh, popscene. then the blowup tomorrow.

polyphonic, i guess im not a burrito fan in general. i'd rather have a taco or tostada or something without big mounds of rice in it. where good taco here?

ok!! see you later

(415) 409-8226

1500 Broadway
San Francisco, CA 94109

BTW, my friend is putting together the Vice Guide to SF so if anyone wants to contribute, lemme know. She need suggestions on where to drink, eat, bowl, dance, bingo, karaoke, gay bars, etc. The weirder the better.

Pretty much everywhere they have burritos, they have tacos. And you can get them however you want for them if you ask.

Tulan Restaurant
8 6th St, San Francisco, CA

ahh, hm, i dunno where i'll be at four on monday yet, but i'll post here if i'm around. my friend has a car that day and we were thinking of driving around to wine places, or something. it would be great to meet you though!

And how is this owl-themed dive bar?

C Bobby's Owl Tree
(415) 776-9344
**** based on 53 reviews
District: Nob Hill
601 Post Street
San Francisco, CA 94109

but what do I know, I've never been there.

I remember seeing a great-horned owl in Yosemite when I was 5.

They also have one of the weirdest digestive systems.

TMI

x-post

Mary, you should go, that southern part of Nob Hill area has some cute neighborhoody bars.

Yes! Always expect it to be chilly in SF. Don't fall into the trap of so many tourists, who have to buy cheap fleeces that say "SF" on it when they get here.

I do have a T-shirt with an owl on it to wear to the pub, though.

How is the Swan Oyster Depot?

If you like owls, go to the Owl Tree.
http://static.flickr.com/93/233339917_5acf9048ae.jpg?v=0
But check the schedule, it only open like Thur - Sat I think.

The ferry terminal is also a good toursity place, especially if the weather is nice, and there's lots of overpriced boutique food there too.

yeah, i wouldn't plan to hang out at the wharf or anything, but i think i might like to wake up there. or would rather do so there than near union square. also, i hear there's a restaurant named after Rick Danko or something there. and is Greens walkable from there?

i guess more than half of the places i might want to go are more easily-accessed from union square, though. those being primarily (and provisionally)... the presidio, (maybe) pacific heights, out on the water in some fashion, north beach, chinatown, (maybe) the ferry building, berkeley, the haight, golden gate park, the mission - would it be too much to try to do most of this in 3 full days? and are there nice residential parts i don't know about that would be worth trying to fit in?

also, wine country. i'd like to pass through if only to look at some dirt and neat rows and lavender and such, but i don't need to go there to drink the wine, and i'm not gonna taste and drive. would i really want to spend an extra night in, uh, Yountville or something?

(xpost - aha!)

My sister just told me that the owner of the owl bar just passed away:(

the worst assault that has happened to someone I know of was right in the financial district, someone tried to steal her ipod and slashed her throat.

I will be in town next week. I have a boring question. What is the best option for paying for getting around town on public transport?

Does the CityPass make sense? Or should I just buy BART tickets as I go?

you're not going to be using BART most of the time, but the Muni. I think the Pass wd make sense if you're going to visit all those institutions. Since I'll be there 5 days I'll probably get the no-frills 7-day pass.

They sell weekly Muni passes for 15 bucks that are geared more for local people than tourists. They cost 15 dollars and you have to pay an extra dollar to ride the cable car.

Here is the list and prices -

http://www.sfmta.com/cms/mfares/fareinfo.htm

Thanks, that is useful. Sounds like the regular weekly pass might be the way to go.

I got a citypass rather than the weekly muni pass because I imagined I'd be doing a fair bit of cablecarriding and visiting at least some museums and such, plus I thought it would be easier to buy on arrival than a muni pass, given where I was staying. Ultimately, I probably prepaid for enough stuff I didn't use that the muni pass might have been a better choice, but it did afford a bit of extra freedom.

also, the citypass (and I imagine the muni pass?) doesn't cover BART

Muni fastpasses are good for all public transportation within city limits, including BART

I don't know if the weekly fast passes are good on BART, I seem to remember that they aren't. Another negative about the weekly passes are that they run from Sunday to the next Saturday, I think the passports are good for a week after they are first used.

The 3- or 7-day "Passports" are just Muni, am I right? as I will be there Thu-Tues, that's what I'm getting.

Yes, you are right. Muni only.

Only the monthly Fast Pass is good on non-Muni transit within SF.

the city pass is a good deal.

The other problem with the weekly pass is that it only really works Monday through Sunday.

The Muni Passport is a better deal than the City Pass IMO.

sorry didn't know fastpasses and weekly passes were different! lame.

Alex you are high, the City Pass includes a ton of free admission. It's like a 50% savings on face value of all those attractions (almost all of which are pretty great for fisitors).

fisters = visitors (who enjoy fisting)

TMI

Those things are generally scams. I'll take my $24 bus pass and go see the few things on the pass that I want to see rather than pay $54 and get stuck with a bunch of nonsense I don't want to do and an overpriced bus-pass.

http://www.citypass.com/citypass/images/look-inside/sanfrancisco/3/34.jpg

Wow a free lollipop. Fuck that sign me up.

Alex you are a native! This is not a thread for natives you dork. You are a funny dude!

i'll admit that having to take my citypass out whenever i got on localsbuses detracted value

i did it stealthily tho

I love Alex's definition of bunch of nonsense!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

de Young/Legion of Honor = great
Aquarium of the Bay = is this the Pier 39 one? never been.
Blue & Gold Fleet Bay Cruise = great (on a nice day)
Exploratorium = great
SF Museum of Modern Art & an option ticket to either Asian Art Museum or California Academy of Sciences/Steinhart Aquarium = great

LESSON: don't listen to Alex guys.

more like bunch of nonsense = grime and dubstep shows in bayview, YARLY.

;-D

"Alex you are a native! This is not a thread for natives you dork. You are a funny dude!"

I was imagining myself as a TOURIST (remember imagination Shasta, it was something Sesame Street us.) Look it's not a rip-off and most cities have something similar and I've done 'em a couple of times and in general the couple of bucks they save you aren't worth all the goofy rules (must see two museums on SAME DAY, etc) and hassles and stressful planning that goes into having them.

I've been planning for my trip to SF this summer, and actually I think the CityPass thing sounds pretty great.

I was going to go to a couple of the museums anyway (Exploratorium and museum of modern art) and if I get to go and see touristy things for free as well (the cruise and aquarium) then I might as well, since I've paid for it already

i think the basic question is how much time to do you have; if it's enough that it makes sense to do a lot of museumgoing, get the pass to encourage you to fit it all in; if it's not, feeling obligated by the pass might mix up your priorities

Yeah I mean obv the question is how much time do you want to spend in museums anyway. The answer for me is generally NOT MUCH, but hey if they are your bag then go for it.

Ok then. what should I see?

I'm there for about 5/6 days in the middle of July. Going to spend one day in Berkeley I think, and planning to go and see Alcatraz one morning too. The Exploratorium is only the other thing I desperately want to see (I came across it lots when I was reading up for a dissertation last year).

I only got to the de Young (selective pass-through was worthwhile/fun; building didn't do much for me; great gift shop) and the Asian Art (very good/well-curated, but deserved a bigger chunk of time than I planned, and somewhat exhausting)

826 Valencia is a fun 20 min.

Especially if you can get one of the surprises or compete for a piece of jerky on dried squid.

I'm a big fan of the Musee Mechanique, but its new home is less interesting than the old one near Seacliff.

my favorite stuff:
Chez Panisse Cafe
UC Berkeley and sunset from the Bowl
Baker Beach and Coastal Trail to the bridge
Aquatic Park/Fort Mason/Greens
Russian Hill
Ferry Building
Golden Gate Park (tea garden, conservatory, de young)
aguas frescas (at Farolito, where the burrito amd salsas didn't impress (but grilled chicken = rong?) and Balazo (where the salsas and goat cheese+nopal taco were nice))
Haight houses

I missed most of the Presidio and Nob Hill and never got to the Cliff House/Lands End, Castro, SoMa or on the water. The wharf beyond aquatic park sucked as much as I was warned (missed the musee). The Mission didn't do much for me beyond the view of Twin Peaks, tho i didn't eat much there and the area around the park was pleasant enough if a bit LA-like. Only took a quick pass through Chinatown but didn't see what the big deal was.

"Going to spend one day in Berkeley I think, and planning to go and see Alcatraz one morning too. The Exploratorium is only the other thing I desperately want to see (I came across it lots when I was reading up for a dissertation last year)."

Exploratium is fun. Alcatraz is a waste now that it's an audio tour IMO. I'd def. look into doing a walking tour of downtown. Chinatown is a nice tourist trap. Stuff in Golden Gate Park is always fun, walking around the Arboretum, the Conservatory, Stow Lake, Japanese Tea Garden, etc. If you like biking there are about a zillion good bike routes. And of course there are no lack of great shopping and eating opportunities.

Here is the walking tour group I recommend (to be honest it's the only one I've done.) The participants probably tend toward the old-ish end, but the tours are fascinating and they get into all sorts of neat nooks that most locals have never seen and they're chock full of useful trivia.

Here is the walking tour group I recommend (to be honest it's the only one I've done.) The participants probably tend toward the old-ish end, but the tours are fascinating and they get into all sorts of neat nooks that most locals have never seen and they're chock full of useful trivia.

http://www.sfcityguides.org/

that's so lame about Alcatraz. I remember getting tours from actual ex-cons from there, thx to my dad.

(also Farolito's is disgusting)

Parse that sentence for me, Shakey.

The previous one. Not the Farolito one.

yeah, I thought Taqueria was better, but I picked Farolito cuz I thought it was more authentic SF (ie inauthentic). plus I spotted it first. disappointing.

the best mexican food I had in CA was at the Los Gatos farmer's market >:

things to do in the Mission:
- lots of cool stuff on Valencia street, including what is probably the best sci-fi bookshop in the world (Borderlands), Aquarius Records, the aforementioned 826 Valencia, Paxton Gate
- walking tours of the local murals (Precita Eyes on 24th St gives tours, I believe)
- go to Cell Space's weekly rollerdisco
- get stabbed in a Mexican heroin bar
- Mitchell's Ice Cream

x-post

(wait which sentence am I parsing? My dad's a history teacher, he used to take his classes to Alcatraz as part of class trips to SF and Sacramento - he met and knew several guys who had done time at Alcatraz back in the day and would use them as tourguides of the island. They always had the best stories)

Yes, that sentence! Now it makes sense!

i'm guilty of not being a big record store/scifi bookstore type. the murals i saw were nice but not as nice as i expected and i decided i was more interested in taking twin peaks pictures and moving along than finding the right alley or whatever to see more.

plus it was hot there

mural quality in the mission varies from unbelievably awesome (the Women's Building) to incomprehensibly bad (the one of old and retarded people at 22nd and S. Van Ness, which I think just got painted over)

no Paxton Gate = no meticulously stuffed rat dressed as Queen Victoria for you then

er I think I mean Bernal Heights hill, not Twin Peaks. I<-noob.

I want to get back to SF so bad, but I have so many other hands trying to get into my wallet... :-(((

xxp - that's quite alright, thanks

The Alcatraz audio tour is still pretty good.

I can't stand audio tours of any sort, to be honest.

Paxton Gate = a poor man's Bone Room (El Cerrito, CA) which all pale in comparison to Evolution (Soho, NYC)

Farolito is the only place with Sesos (brains) and Cabeza (head cartilege) so I guess if that's not authentic enough for you, you should stick to the Los Gatos Farmer's Market LOL.

well i'm definitely not an organmeat guy, but i thought i was consciously choosing "sf-style burritos" over something more like the real thing at Taqueria. have you been to that market, steve? i thought it was really good food but maybe it was just good timing. the town overall was slightly absurdly (or at least more-than-expectedly) conspicuously wealthy, but pleasant in a suburban village-y way and also had the best pastry I had in CA.

yeah, that's the heart of silicon valley (where the technology for whatever you're typing on and looking at right now has been developed).

but i have to admit having lived on a farm for half of my life, i don't really find the appeal of "farmer's markets" neither authentic or fascinating. for really authentic mexican food, i recommend this place just down interstate 5 from here. it's about a 40 hour drive.

My fave taqueria in SF is El Balazo. Outside of the fact that the help knows about 10 English terms, it's not very authentic, but damn is it tasty.

I guess I'm kinda soured on the notion of authentic cuisine since I had to eat real Chinese food for 2 weeks in China and it was absolutely terrible.

Yes, I am prematurely generalizing.

i am such a lazy tourist, i never care too much about the sights when i go to a place, i just like being there and walking around and eating and taking my own slow time about doing things, also i like looking at people and eavesdropping and watching the local news and lingering in hotel rooms.

I confess I'm going to be curious about Dutch tv this fall.

make sure you eat local snacks while you watch it.

hopefully there is no dutch carlos mencia.

I guess as this is my fourth trip, I'll finally go to Bernal Heights for the view.

Love it when all the book-and-poll-recommended things get "it's shit" from the locals (ie, Farolito). Very confusing.

Sorry, audio tour is worth 'enduring' to see Alcatraz once.

Farolito is the only place with Sesos (brains) and Cabeza (head cartilege)

c'mon Steve no way is this true. I can think of several taquerias on 24th St that have those on the menu (Vallarta, my personal favorite El Tonayense). altho I never eat that shit so what do I care.

Really? Most places either have one or the other. I need to go back to Vallarta.

granted its been at least a year since I've been to Vallarta

(Here we go with talking about SF food again...) I like Farolito's Al Pastor tacos. Why would you eat frickin' brains and shit anyway - Especially given the quality of meat that your average taqueria is buying... In the Mission, my favorite taqueria is actually El Metate (Bryant and 22nd) - amazing Chili Verde. If you go to the Ferry Building farmers market, the best (albeit fancy) Mexican food in the city is at the Primavera stand. Plus you can get Recchiuti chocolates. And a couple dozen oysters and a bowl of the best clam chowder EVER at Hog Island Oyster Company.

(Sheepish cuz I liked the Alcatraz audio tour when I was like 14 or something).

And if you are in the Mission, check out the new Bi-Rite creamery for some super-excellent ice cream.

If you go to the Ferry Building farmers market, the best (albeit fancy) Mexican food in the city is at the Primavera stand

i got a tamale from a blase non-mexican dude at the ferry building market (tuesday) that was pretty good. was that primavera?

Probably. You can buy Primavera stuff at fancy supermarkets, but the fresh stuff is way better. They do a great chorizo and eggs...

I will def go to Ferry Bldg...

Does anyone like La Cumbre?

The Ferry Building now houses the Slanted Door, which is a fave of many. Probably worth making a note.

the Ferry Bldg' worth a walk-through, regardless of where/what you end up eating.

Never heard of La Cumbre

"And if you are in the Mission, check out the new Bi-Rite creamery for some super-excellent ice cream."

OTM.

btw Shasta I was in Tonayense last night and they do indeed have cabeza and sesos both on the menu (I didn't eat either)

I am def gonna hit Ferry Bldg Fri or Sat (if my clothes arrive). M White, where wuz you?

Dude, sorry. Family thing came up and I had to help my putative (as we mutually call our relationship, tongue in cheek) mother-in-law. How long are you in town, again?

(I hear Hernandez looked good, **##^!)

til Tuesday, noonish. perhaps my bags will come
meantime.

Oh, Lord. I've had that happen. Not fun.

they're coming btwn 10 and 2, allegedly. I may buy a sweatshirt to get to MoMA.

Will there be a Sarah-n/a-Morbius summit?

we're missing each other, he's happy.

Shakey, looks like I'm bagging the Harryhausen movies, too much else goin on now that I have clothes. Saw de Palma's Obsession @Castro last night, maybe his best Hitchcock rip.

no worries - hey at least you got to see something at the Castro, that's what matters!

I go there every time I'm in town.

Is there a good brunch place in SOMA or the Mission (or Lower Haight) where I can be seated in less than 20 minutes on a Sunday?

ie, there's an online consensus that Kate's Kitchen has lost it.

I'd go to Suppenkuche for brunch. In fact I will go to Suppenkuche for brunch today.

would Chow be a long wait?

Not if you are willing to sit at the bar.

cherry cornmeal pancakes at Dottie's OMG

and I think the salted caramel at Bi Rite Creamery nearly gave me a coronary.

my omelette at Kate's Kitchen was OK...

Got out of Amoeba in about 90 mins, spending only $57.

Dotties >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kate's Kitchen.

where is this Dottie's, I've never been there

on Jones, nr O'Farrell's. I waited 35 mins on Monday morning (after 10), but it was worth it.

O'Farrell St that is

btw, I laughed out loud at the Crumb stuff at Yerba Buena Ctr.

Dottie's was awesome, well worth the hour-ish wait. Chloe's was good for brunch too. We also hit Bi-Rite, the salted caramel was incredible. Had dinner at Millenium and Greens (hi dere vegetarians), both were fine but not really worth the $$$$$. Had lunch at Ferry Market Building one day, which was tasty but messed up my stomach. Unfortunately, never got around to eating any Mexican food.

We also did some stuff that didn't involve eating.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/x77tigersxus/sets/72157600337857235/

In case you care.

hey bros, i am going to be in sf mon/tues/wed.morning thurs next week on a business trip, anyone want to hang out?

Same phone, Ally?

yes. i have a blackberry now too and i can send you that # just in case but my regular cell should work.

Mr Shasta,

Would you mind disclosing a place or two in the Western continental United States (but not in Greater Los Angeles, Orange County or Seattle) in which to eat at least mildly creative sushi (or other haute Japanese food, but not a kaiseki meal) that is arguably comparable to or better than that found at certain locations above 14th St, on or East of 1st Ave, Manhattan, NYC, USA? This is for non-extreme-chowhounds, but stripmall-type places are a-ok.

Thank you,
gabbneb

I know you didn't ask me, but Ame is supposed to super-good (and very expensive). I also REALLY like Koo in the inner Sunset (San Francisco).

To be honest, I need to disclose that I'm not interested in creative sushi as that usually is a short road down a dead end street (not to mention I'm admittedly pretty discreet/aka asshole snob about where I eat sushi) but here's a couple lists of Bay Area Japanese food:

SF
1) Kappa - koryori (little plates, like a high-end izakaya)
2) Koo - fusion japanese
3) Ino - tokyo style sushi bar
4) The Dining Room @ Ritz Carlton - Ron Siegel was the first non-Japanese to not only win Ryori No Tetsujin (Iron Chef) but sweep all judges. The restaurant has a surprising amount of a Japanese influence as Siegel lived/worked in Japan for many years.
5) Tekka Izakaya (pub food, don't order the sushi, stick to the kitchen dishes)
6) Eiji - housemade Oborodofu - fresh tofu (again don't order the sushi)
7) Kyo-Ya - hotel-style (and priced) sushi

Bay Area
1) Kaygetsu (Menlo Park) - modern kaiseki but you can order ala carte. the kitchen chef is from Okinawa (I have a soft spot for Okinawan food).
2) Santa Ramen (San Mateo) - kind of weird pan-ramen place but they have great broth/noodles.
3) Shabuway (San Mateo) - they have imported japanese beef (mishima/matsusaka/kobe) shabu shabu, none of this US "Kobe-style" hybrid stuff you see all over NYC.
4) Sumika (Los Altos Hills) - best Yakitori in the Bay Area
4) Hoshi (San Jose) - excellent upscale Japanese restaurant
5) Sam's (San Mateo) - sushi bar

perhaps what i mean is not-exclusively-traditional ('contemporary'?) sushi? anyway, thanks lots.

and thanks, schwantz - Ame was already on my recommend list, but I was envisioning a more unassuming-seeming place

oh god there are like a zillion in any given neighborhood. not too hard to find. look for places like "crazy sushi", "happy sushi", "sushi time", "sushi zone", "sushi a go go" etc.

then there are places like Ame, Bushi Tei, Sutra which have j-chefs but are making straight fusion cuisine (not sushi).

but to be a pedant to 2 of your criteria:

"arguably comparable to or better than that found at certain locations above 14th St"

AND

" a more unassuming-seeming place"

= good luck to you!

hey, Sushi S--- and Sushi of G--- are not very flashy-looking! I don't think the former is, at least; I've only taken the bus past it.

Sushi of G*** is not but G*** (same name) is. S*** is only good after 11pm because they are the only ones open late but I just heard that the ex-G*** chef's at S*** have left! :-(

I'm playing at the Makeout Room tonight at 9pm. Slint is sold out so you have no reason not to come. Obligatory self-aggrandizing spam now:

This is our first show since November and we've written an entirely new album since, songs from which we'll be road testing tonight. The band will be myself, Sacha Galvagna, Raj Ojha, and Ray Welter.

We'll also have official copies of the forthcoming album "The Glass Bottom Boat" for sale. The album will be released by UK Label Resonant on August 20th (and distributed by Darla in the US) and available at fine online establishments and the two physical record stores left in existence. But you can have them a month early and give your money
directly to us if you come to the show. Some of you may already have CD-Rs of the album but trust me when I say that the final product looks beautiful (for those who care about packaging).

Details:

Carta @ the Makeout Room
w/ Jake Mann and Snowdrift
3225 22nd St, San Francisco
showtime: 9pm
door fee: $7 (I think)

We're playing first.

Hope to see some of you there,

Kyle

http://www.theglassbottomboat.com / http://myspace.com/cartamusic

http://www.ticketweb.com/t3/sale/SaleEventDetail?dispatch=loadSelectionData&pl=bimbos&eventId=188487

;-P

we are $15 cheaper

and we will give you a handjob

O_____________o

Is it me or does the city feel extra crazy today? Way more people than usual, Market St feels like Manhattan, power cuts everywhere, sirens all day long and there's been two huge film shoots on my street - one for "Journeyman" and another for Fruit Of The Loom - dudes dressed like this:

http://www.glbtminneapolis.org/glbtminneapolis/images/fruit.jpg

we're on emergency power right now as a matter of fact, wtf

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/07/24/BAG9NR67253.DTL&tsp=1

there were 3 separate gunfight incidents yesterday on market street between 10am-6pm.

all I heard about was a shooting on Mason Street...?

Steve, how many were you in?

haha "gunfight"

Too many Turner Classic westerns and Louis L'Amour paperbacks for mr shasta!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/48/Showdown_at_Yellow_Butte.png

the Mason Street shooting involved someone being shot in the foot

there was Mason, then a driveby near the chess tables and finally an execution style to a car passenger on Cyril Magnin.

so...does this town have a new sheriff?

finally an execution style to a car passenger on Cyril Magnin

Holy Fcuk!

it was a hit/retaliation. haven't read any news on it but talked to two friends who saw the whole thing transpire.

wtf Steve

Jesus Christ. You guys just totally made me nervous about my trip there. Anyway, I will be in SF from the 15th thru the 19th. What's up with y'all?

I will be in SF from the 15th thru the 19th. What's up with y'all?

-- The Reverend, Sunday, 29 July 2007 21:26 (1 week ago) Link

I'll be around - not sure what's goin on that weekend tho

Cool. If you have anything going on, be sure to bring it up here.

Yo. Anyone here?

no

I'm here but my dad's in town and I have to go furniture shopping so uh, I am no fun sorry

-_-

I'm here and will probably be a the Rickshaw Stop tomorrow night but that's only because I'm underage. Also no fun, sorry.

I killed a thread. Gourmet macaroni cook-off and BBQ at my downstairs neighbors house this afternoon.

i used this thread a few weeks ago on a little weekend trip, went to dotties(we stayed around the corner, as it happened) and while in line we chatted with a dude who owns a cabbie school. After breakfast he graciously offered to drive us around the city and we graciously accepted; we hit the civic center, opera house, that big dome by the lake(forgot what it's called sry), across/above the golden gate, the presidio, robin williams' house, north beach and then he had to go and dropped us off in front of our hotel. he was fucking awesome, he said doing the tours are actually fun for him even after all these years. I owe it all to you guys and him and san francisco and myself.

Goodbye, SF. It was fun knowing you.

(I soooo want to go back. Hopefully when I have a traveling companion who is of legal drinking age/isn't a teetotaler. That city is fucking brilliant. Oh, and that cool Temple/Dome-ish thing is the Exploratorium.)

I want to go back too :(

me 3

Oh, and that cool Temple/Dome-ish thing is the Exploratorium.

actually no, it's the Palace Of Fine Arts. The exploratorium is housed in an exhibition hall around the corner.

http://www.danheller.com/images/California/SanFrancisco/Buildings/transam-coit-01-big.jpg

City Lights Bookstore

I don't know if I'll make it back before then, but I'll definitely be there next August. I'm going to make a work trip to the CA State Fair and fit in side trips to SF and possibly Redding. Although going to Redding just to see the Sundial Bridge may not be worth it.

Redding is roughly 5 hours away and has little to recommend it in the way of tourism

He used to live there, Shakey. He knows.

God, do I know. Even so, there were hundreds of better meals there than here in franchised-to-death Amory.

I want to come to SF during Dungeness season and get a case of crabs.

Also, Redding city limits to Bay Bridge = 2:30.

haha don't mind me! sorry

im moving there in about a week, ilx.

I think I want to move there at some point in my life.

K so I live here now. Anyone know of a good temp agency?

What kind of work do you do?

oh yea, i'm going to San FranciscoPalo Alto for a week starting tomorrow. i'll have to mine all the old SF threadz..

I think I want to move there at some point in my life.

my wife wants to move there NOW until i remind her we're priced out of fucking Tujunga much less the Bay Area. I am a good man and supportive husband otherwise.

I used to book shows at me and Max's college. I also do boring office work well.

had my big SF day today. i didn't have a map or the addresses of any of my destinations, so there was a lot of wandering.

took the Caltrain into the SF station, walked to Union Square and tried to picture where opening scene of The Conversation took place. walked through Chinatown and ate at the least touristy looking italian place i could find on Columbus, some sandwich counter. found City Lights and bought 'Blood Meridian' and then clerk suggested that I return it and get 'Heart of the Lonely Hunter' instead. declined, went to washington square park. walked aimlessly through posh hilly region in search of mission st and ended up at tenderloin police station. had this exchange with an imposing homeless man:

HM: Got any change?
PT: Yes.
HM: ......... you do?
PT: (fishing in pocket) Here you go.
HM: .... i'm gonna beat the shit out of you.
PT: .. what?
HM: I said, 'HAVE A NICE DAY!'

then found mission at 5th st. and walked to 16th. considered getting spontaneous tattoo at very feminist tattoo parlor on guererro before finding out you need an appointment a couple weeks in advance. more aimless wandering in search of bar. found cool sci-fi/fantasy book store and bought 'the moon is a harsh mistress.' looked again for bar. finally went into some metallic place near mission & 20th called something like Lazlovacs. another homeless dude encounter (feat. bartender):

HD: ..excuse me.
B: LEAVE.
HD: ..please, i've been working all day, i'd just like to wash my hands. see my hands?
B: okay. bathroom is back there.
HD: (passes female patron at bar) THERE SHE IS! (goes for embrace)
B: I SAID FUCKING LEAVE.

asked (cute) victim if there was another cool bar in the area. she directed me to The Mission Bar, said she was going there after this drink. went there and had two Fat Tires ( !! mythic beer for Oklahoman; strange liquor law forbids its sale in the entire state) and waited for the girl to show up. never did. ate at taqueria next door and caught BART to train station. had to wait 1h45m for next CALtrain.

i wish i would have written some of these suggestions down :( although i had a decent time. i think i had to catch the train too early (10pm) and it was before people started going out.

might try again tomorrow, though.

legs very tired. NYer walk long distances, but not at that angle.

i am going to san francisco tomorrow. am i crazy that i dont really care that much about what to eat while i am there? i just want cool shit to look at and good places to get drunk. YAY

wow feel sorry for the dude above who was so excited about drinking a fat tire

on the plus side he found Borderlands (best sci-fi bookstore in the state) and got a copy of Blood Meridian (McCarthy's best and most harrowing novel)

sci fi bookstore sounds like it needs me to visit it.
friend i am going with aint gonna be happy bout that.

and bought 'Blood Meridian' and then clerk suggested that I return it and get 'Heart of the Lonely Hunter' instead. declined,

this is hysterical!!!

woah where is sci fi bookstore?

what kind of places do you want to go to?

they have a hairless cat named Ripley

rad im so there next paycheck

i wanted to go to alcatraz because i heard they had actors in the cells pretending to be lost, lonely prisoners who tell their tales to people who go on the tour. now i hear thats not TRUE. so now i dont want to go there.

recommend a good wax museum

there's an awesome museum near pier 45 called the musee mechanique. old arcade games and weird shit like that. http://www.museemechanique.org/

i took this picture there!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/chakisaki/78a7re2.jpg

that's by where all the seals sit on the pier

hopefully i'll be able to get drunk there. drinking at a high altitude all the time makes it so hard when i am somewhere else.

http://www.toronado.com/

I saw so little when I was there since it was for a work conference, I need to make it back

hoegaarden on draught yaaay!

the musee mechanique is great

that hairless cat is gross. alex touched it a little too long imho

i am bringing my gournal in case i get struck with inspiration

hopefully i will come home and tell everyone i know that i am planning on moving to SF

its cool here

also expensive

we love it!

Last Tuesday:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2269/1588393879_4eb5695c01.jpg?v=0

I can see my office right about...............................^^^^there

(font dependent of course).

wau

http://www.posterfair.com/cgi-local/content.cgi

i am back now. i had so much fun. i spent most of the time drunk and probably got like 5 hours of sleep over the four days i was in SF. THOROUGHLY IMPRESSED, and it doesn't seem that expensive to me either... for food and drink and what not at least. i am definitely coming back sooner rather than later.

what's the Independent like? Bottom of the Hill?

I scrawled a list on a napkin of drinking destinations in SF for someone, and the other night they left drunken messages for me about chilling w/Carl at the Ha-Ra. I now feel like I've done at least one good thing in my life.

rip C. Bobby.

The Independent is okay (also about 3 blocks from my house) but I haven't been to the BoftH in a while. I did see Brian Jonestown Massacre implode there once, though.

Independent is a pretty nice venue (nice lights, great sound system), altho lacking in character. Bottom of the Hill is older/more venerable but also smaller and with worse sound.

thanks

Yeah, what Shakey said. Shakey, do they still have the patio at BotH?

I think the Independent is one of the nicest venues I've been to in the city. It's really clean, and the sound is terrific. It also is unusually spacious for a smaller club.

Independent used to be the Justice League and before that it was the Kennel Club... old stalwart in the Western Addition. Very strange booking going on there.

Yeah, what Shakey said. Shakey, do they still have the patio at BotH?

as far as I know, I haven't been there in 6 months or so (patio essential for weed smoking-enhanced shows)

Shasta otm about the Independent's booking - all over the place. last thing I saw there was Boris/Damon and Naomi w/Kurihara. (Boris set was sad - technical difficulties). I think I've only seen metal and psych/drone stuff there.

yah they still have a patio. independent is also 3 block from my house! how is the bbq place across the street from there?

used to be totally awesome when it was Brother-in-Laws, but it changed hands (and names) recently and I haven't tried it yet.

good BBQ in this city is hard to find. Big Nate's is allright.

Bimbo's is cooler/has more personality than the Independent tho, rite?

Independent is 6 blocks from my house. You guys win.

yes, Independent lacking personality.

for big venues/good sound i tend to enjoy the dna lounge

Bimbo's is SWEET. great sound, wooden ballroom dancefloor, fabulous decor, old school mobster history, classy bartenders.

however I am creeped out that they still pay old black guys to hand out towels in the bathrooms.

when are you in town/what are you thinking of seeing...?

used to be totally awesome when it was Brother-in-Laws, but it changed hands (and names) recently and I haven't tried it yet.

It's called Lilly's now and as I understand it's still (roughly) in the same family. Still good, too.

man I don't think I've been in the DNA Lounge in like almost 10 years (I met Shock G there once so CLASSIC)

I think I'd go there more if I hadn't completely given up on live hip-hop.

There's a bartender at the bar on the terraces behind the main floor at Bimbo's (his name escapes me right now) who does the most amazing caricatures of the performers on the stage.

Brother-In-Laws was one health code after another. I like Memphis Minnies, but I guess there are crazy people who don't.

health code VIOLATION, ahem

I'm used to my favorite restaurants having health code violations. doesn't bother me since I have STOMACH OF STEEL

Memphis Minnies is too vinegary/sweet for me, though they DO have some good stuff there.

Tu Lan, Shakey?

Well Brother-In-Laws for a while had the lowest health rating in the city so it was a bit adventurous eating there (seriously it was LOW LOW LOW.) Admittedly I never got sick, but I also never ate there again after I found that out.

shakey, dna lounge has great metal shows too! i saw SKELETON WITCH there.

My favorite memory of Brother-in-Laws was getting a big spread for about seven people and then we all watched 'Shaun of the Dead'. It makes for an excellent accompaniment to zombie flicks.

wow i thought dna lounge was just a danceclub these days. only time i saw a show there was like 7 years ago long before i moved here.

the misfits (sic) recently played dna... lol.

Yeah they still seem to book the odd live show at DNA. I saw Gwar there in recent memory, and am horribly tempted by the Information Society reunion in the next week or so.

I always had the impression that the Independent was pretty much 100% booked by Another Planet these days, which kinda explains for their all-over-the-mappedness.

Re Memphis Minnies: I very much miss their brunch.

I tried Memphis Minnie's a few months ago (that stupid sign put me off of it for years) - it was allright.

other restuarants with horrible records I have enjoyed: yes Tu Lan, Pakwan, any number of Taquerias (El Tonayense taco truck!), Zante's doesn't look too clean...

what I really miss in this town is some good southern/creole/cajun cooking - RIP Crescent City

is it retarted that i was just in SF like 3 months ago and already want to go back ASAP for fun and ridiculousness?

Have you been to Brenda's, Shakey?

Nope. It's totally normal.

Has anybody eaten at Elite Cafe recently?

what is this Brenda's... the last new cajun/creole place I tried was that overpriced tourist atrocity on Broadway (Andrew Jaeger's I think...?) The food was okay but everything else about it sucked ass.

Brenda's website:

http://www.frenchsoulfood.com/home.htm

I should probably refrain from getting my hopes up about restaurants, seeing as how I'm not going to be eating in one for god knows how many months

I've never eaten at the Elite Cafe.

I have but ages ago and as I recall, they got a new chef/makeover not long ago. Classy joint for a drink early; later the Pac Heighters and Fillmore scum make it nigh unbearable.

yeah, I never go to the Fillmore

I do when I'm going to the Clay. Btw, I went to 1300 a couple of weeks ago. Good food.

Btw The Kabuki Theatre has been ROBERTREDFORD-ized and has become the Sundance Theatre. Theres TWO bars in there now and you can drink in the movies! My friend is a bartender there and got me faded. Its totally cool. Good menu too. I had the Coca Cola ribs.

Yeah, I want to check it out.

yeah new Kabuki gets the thumbs up from me - so much better than how it used to be! Altho I haven't got to try the bars yet, lookin forward to it.

if yosh is your bartender tell her chaki sent ya! she'll hook you up!

I saw There Will Be Blood there. It looked nice.

we saw I'm Not There there, bars/restaurant weren't open yet.

Bar Crudo was really good and had a great Belgium beer selection (lol)

The s'mores fondue-esque dessert at LunaPark is a beautiful thing...

Ha! I've arm-wrestled a machine that arm-wrestled Chaki!

Kabuki looks nice but 3$ fee on weekends = MAJOR DUD.

you're paying for the privilege of mixing it up with PH crowd.

pls explain $3 fee?

this is how it's explained on the website:

"Every seat for every show is sold on a reserved seating basis. Tickets are available for purchase either on the web with print at home capability, at the ticketing kiosks or at the box office. We feel that offering this service relieves some of the stress of planning a trip to the movies, plus you get to choose your very favorite seat every time!
You have a choice as to when and if you need to pay for your reserved seat. There is no amenities fee Monday through Thursday for the first show time. After that, as the day progresses towards the evening 'prime shows', the amenities fee is anywhere from $1.00 up to $3.00. We're presenting a first class experience, with a state of the art theatre, no annoying television commercials, free internet wi-fi and real butter on our popcorn."

when we went to the counter last weekend and asked about it, we were told it was to offset the costs of 'running a completely green theater'. my gf was like 'oh, so you guys are off the grid and have solar panels on the roof?' and the agent was like 'erm, no...the floor you're standing on is made of recycled materials...' and we thought - 'wait a minute, we used to come here all the time and there was a perfectly good floor here - is he telling us that they removed the floor (and presumably junked it) and replaced it with a new one so they could charge us more for movies?'

they also explain it away by saying

- you can reserve your seats in advance
- they spent a lot of money on refurbishing the theater
- no commercials before the movie
- umm that's it

MAJOR DUD imo. so lame.

its a fancy theater, they charge more - what's the mystery

that is very, very strange!

but i like the reserved seating option, that's how they do it in other countries.

I think it's stupid. Nothing is dumber than trying to find your exact seat in a dark theater.

Plus it makes it harder to sneak into theaters at multiplexes.

this thread seems busier than the one in ILM. what should I do on the night of Saturday January 26? where do I get SF listings?

Flavorpill is pretty good. Also pick a copy of the Guardian.

going on a whirlwind jaunt to bay area for president's day wknd! dinner at chez panisse (the cafe upstairs, not the OG restaurant, which despite its place in the canon is a little steep for our budgets). amoeba! what else?

me and some other cool bands are playin a show Sun Feb 17th at the Hemlock if yr so inclined

first show since the baby? ours was so bad that we broke up afterward!

hey shakey ill be there! im playing at the elbo room on the 4th btw.

first show since the baby? ours was so bad that we broke up afterward!

?! aw, say it ain't so! yes this is first post-baby show and will also be smallest version of the band ever probably (only 6 people instead of 10 - no horns or array of analog synths, sadly). Nudity is totally fucking awesome tho, features both former guitarists from the Tight Bros from Way Back When.

chaki the elbo room is great - which band of yrs is playin...?

we're called DALTON!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dalton_School

so I've been wondering if babies are allowed in bars

well we broke up for about two months and then came back in a better lineup. but playing out in public with that little sleep was so....weird. I felt completely alien and freakish like I didn't belong there and should have been home with my child (I should have, in retrospect).

babies are allowed in bars, but I wouldn't subject them to that volume of sound. our friends DID bring their baby to see us play 21 Grand though a few years ago...but they left pretty quickly.

oh I'm just kiddin I wouldn't subject our li'l one to the high decibels.

altho she does respond well to drone metal and dub reggae.

i made a reservation at this hotel -- anyone know it?

http://www.jdvhotels.com/carlton/

it has a "sir edmund hillary" suite! i didn't book that. :-(

Rooms looks cute, but I've never stayed there so I can't comment. Only hotels I've seen on the inside in SF are the Hayes Valley Inn (which is nice and cheap, but has shared facilities) and that Motor Lodge on Market and Sanchez (which is like a motor lodge anywhere, but obv a lot more gay friendly.)

I've been to Saha, the restaurant there, gb, and it was pretty good the last time I went.

Hi Michael White, sorry for yelling at you at 6am yesterday whizzing by.

I too have been to Saha, it's blandish, veggie friendly pan-Arabic. I liked about half the dishes we ordered there.

Hey, at least you weren't wizzing by, Steve...

The chef at Saha is Yemeni, I believe - good wine list, which is always nice. Among all the other places you're going to be near (ish) to, gb, is this very cheap but very delicious Turtle Tower, the very best phở place in SF, but you have to go early 'cause they close at 7:30.

yes to pho

Since you are right there you can also go to Brenda's for breakfast (see link above.)

is Union Square dead on weekends?

Not shopping-wise.

so there's foot-traffic, people hanging out, etc.?

Union Square is horrible why would you want to go there? it is never "dead"

I mean unless you have the need to shop at Macy's or Niketown or something

H&M has nice coats also its the only bart station i can access from the 38 easily.

Union Square is horrible why would you want to go there?

that was my impression before I'd been there, but when I walked through it, it was more attractive than expected, and seemed a decent place to stop briefly and people-watch

when they paved over the "park" in union sq. wtf??

? when was that? I don't remember there ever being a park there, I've lived here for 11 years.

yeah union sq is nothing spesh unless they changed it drastically from last time i was there

assuming that by "park" you mean grass and trees and shrubberies

x-post

I assume s/he means the area that they filmed the opening of The Conversation which could loosely be called a park and which has changed a bit since they filmed that.

yeah, i mean it wasn't like grassy napping destination, but, they made all the "let's discourage homeless people from loitering here" changes that just made it depressing

There used to be a lot more grass until they 'renovated' it starting in '98 until that was finished in '02. It's a whole lot uglier now than it used to be.

dell OTM re: homeless

huh - shows how much time I spend there

i ate at Dosa this weekend. It was pretty good although overpriced for what it was.

we're going there on Saturday (couldn't get a reservation at Delfina, bah!) I like Dosa a lot, one of only a few places in SF where you can get South Indian cooking.

THE CHEESESTEAK PLACE BY MY HOUSE IS THE SHIT

Jay's, right...?

"i ate at Dosa this weekend. It was pretty good although overpriced for what it was."

I have never thought that about Dosa. I think it's pretty comparable with most good Indian fare in the city.

no the yellow one on divizz. jay's is good too but i prefer the vegie cheesesteaks there! the other one is real dead meaty good.

It's on Divis and Post, right?

That one's good, but I prefer Jay's. I cannot eat Seitan or whatever the fuck it's called.

yah post and divis! thats where i live basically! cant find good burritos around here though :(

I usually eat at dirt cheap indian restaurants in berkeley so that was my point of comparison for price. they are good but not "nice", particularly.

anyway, yeah, recommended.

(xpost)It's true, you cannot. :(

Not that I can either. Not without walking ten or so blocks anyway.

On the other hand I can eat German just by opening my front door so yay me!

Ocean Taqueria a couple shops down from the cheesesteak shop is decent but not balls out amazing.

Do you eat at Eric's (or is it Eliza's?), chaki? I've never been to the one there, but the one in Noe Valley (or Potrero) is really good.

Apparently it's called Eliza's there haha.

The Chinese place?

Yup.

Apparently there is some sordid story about the Eliza-Eric split, but the waiter at Eliza's would only tell us that Eric's RIPPED THEM OFF, AND THEY WERE FIRST SO DON'T EAT THERE, OKAY!