this is a thread about one of the greatest achievements of our time: AIR CONDITIONING

I could not live without air conditioning, especially during May - September. There is no way you can force me to go without, no matter what you construct the house with. Air conditioning is like food to me, i.e. an absolute necessity. And I set mine at 72 degrees because I like it that way.

I lurve a/c.

I'm no Luddite on this. I run the a/c all summer long. But it has inevitably had an insular effect. Air conditioning and suburbia go hand in hand. (One solution I like is the outdoor misting spray systems I saw on patios in Arizona -- keeps people cool and still allows them to be outside. Of course, the problem with that is that it uses a lot of water that Arizona doesn't really have in the first place...)

Still drive through poor 'hoods and everyone's hanging outside in the summertime evenings. Give any of these suckers the chance at central air however. . .

A/C as only possible remedy for heat = dud beyond dud, wedded forever in my mind to the types of people who forward those annoying "You're blessed today if you enjoyed any of the following things..." types of emails. A/C as respite from humidity obv. classic. But if there's one area (and there may only be this one) in which I'd preach the virtues of moderation, it'd be with regard to air conditioning, which out here anyway is emblematic of how my adopted countrymen consider nature their sworn enemy.

*ice crystals form around fingertips*

yeah, those all stupid poor people who live in the projects, what do they know? if they moved into yr fabulous arizona house they wouldn't complain so fucking much.

If there were no AC, then you or I probably wouldn't be living in the South in the first place. The population of the South was tiny until the invention of the AC caused a huge migration southward. AC in your house + AC in your car = 99% time spent in artificial enviroments. AC is a huge energy drain, and will be one of the first things to be sacrificed in the coming energy shortages.

This is what I hate most about it! When I have shows or a tour coming up, I really really can't afford to get sick, and I'll go to work and there's this rank freonified air blowing out of vents that haven't been cleaned since they were installed through filters that needed replaced back during the Ford administration, and it's just the PERFECT environment for mold growth, etc., and I sit there goin' "Please God don't let me get sick, what could be worse than 1) getting on an airplane while sick 2) touring while sick."

Like I say, moderation - we finally broke down and bought a window unit for our bedroom, which we turn on an hour or so before bed. But the whole every-home-should-be-a-convalescent-hospital mode of A/C, brr, it gives me the hard creeps.

However look back at botn tenemant and other house design in hot countries going back through the ages and you willsee that it is possible to do without A/C and still keep the house cool. (Big thick walls, shutters on windows, central courtyards, largely in shade, all features of ancient roman tennemant design and used in southern europe till the rise of A/C, I guess in the 80s).

Having lived through a hot italian summer. I can testify to the fact that it is possible to keep a flat cool (20?C in a 40?C heat) with no A/C and a rotation of shutters.

A/C is hugely wastefull and widescale use of A/C goes to contribute to a hotter exterior ambient tempurature in cities (not to mention all the greenhouse gasses produced in powering the things).

Now add to this the devlopments in the past 10 years or so in passive ventilation, smart glass, building control systems, insultation, building materials etc. you can design buildings with a very small need for heating and cooling.

As for energy saving setting that should be an un alterable stautory setting.

Don't even get me started on open fridge freezers in supermarkets or how the heat from this wastefull machines is not ducted away.

Here in New Orleans, the emblem of nature as my countrymen's sworn enemy is hurricanes and stifling heat!! Nature = DUD.

My building has a central courtyard and my apartment (which faces the courtyard) still gets unbearably humid in summer. There's also very little natural light coming in here -- you'd think that would help keep things cool, but no.

Yeah see that's where we disagree.

As far as summer-smart building design and the like -- sure, some designs work better for some climates than others. Drive through New Orleans: most of the buildings that are older than a few decades were made to try to maximize coolness. Big open shutters at opposite ends of the house, to get a breeze going through. Shotgun houses with narrow alleys between them, so the wind is forced through faster and carries warmth with it. Little use of upper stories except as places where excess heat is funnelled. They're sometimes just shy of brilliant. They're as picturesque as they are picaresque. They're quaint. They're often beautiful.

And they suck.

No one wants them. I could make a down payment on one by selling my four year old computer. They're hot as fuck -- cooler than standing out in the sun or a chicken coop, sure, but "slightly less hot than tons of fuck" is still "hot as fuck." They're humid, so much so that the walls sweat and the paint peels long before its time. They're crawling with cockroaches and may flies. The gaps between the walls and the plaster are home to mold which kills you if you breathe in too many of its spores. The refrigerators sweat and the cabinets become mildewy.

There is a limit to how much you can do with a given set of resources. Some climates are more easily tamed than others.

A/C is the easy lazyu way of taming climates. it take ingenuity to do it properly.

Again I'm not saying "Abolish air conditioning!" I'm just saying when I go into a house in the summer and it's COLD in there, I start making shit up about how I got an appointment to be somewhere real quick-like.

Heat rises as part of your building design you build in in your foundations vents that suck air down to the bottom level. Air is drawn up through the basements, duck so it passses as muched exposed concrete as possible. If the temp of the air in the basments is below the dew point (quite possible) Water will condense out drying the air. The draft is suppllied by the hotter levels of the building and chimenys on the roof, constructed of thin black metal. Drawing air through the building. Ventilation can be improove by lacing your inlet in the prevailing wind direction. Water can be used to precool the air on entry or in the basement sections.

res ipsa loquitur - this is clearly the best way to get your building's core temperature down to frosty Nordic levels

All's fair -- the city would be long since gone if the Army Corps of Engineers weren't redirecting the Mississippi River, so it's all bonus time at this point anyway.

I can see how living without AC is possible -- perhaps even preferable -- in many parts of the world. Again with the Chicago weather: 81 degrees today. Not bad at all. I could even sleep at that temperature.

But down here, AC prevents needless death. It's very hot. And sex is impossible without AC down here... who wants to touch someone else when you sweat 24 hours a day and feel sticky and gross all the time?

But at home? Half the windows in my house don't even open anymore. And say all you want about "smart building," but it's not possible to create a comfortable, permanent structure in North Texas year-round that's affordable to the average person. Too much humidity to go with the heat.

I'm still nursing my desire to live somewhere that stays 35-75 all year round. I have no idea where that is. Vancouver?

You know, I initially read this as

I was miserable living in my car without A/C for a few months last year

and I thought, "yeah, that'd be like insult to injury."

*takes off hat*

Let us never forget that terrible summer. I remember it like the Alamo.

And they all died.

Let that be a lesson, young Texans. A/C defeats Santa Anna.

That ain't hot.

73 = nippy.

Had you been at the FAP, you would be saying something completely different, Ed. Trust me. ;-)

'Cuz that's just crazy-like.

I'm siding with Ed here, we need to learn how to live with as little HVAC as possible and hopefully sooner rather than later

The problem of baked old people is more a problem of lack of care and attention to the elderly than a lack of AC.

If they had someone that were looking after them, they wouldn't have to sit and bake alone in an apartment until they die.

Besides, what if the AC unit breaks down? What if there is a brown/blackout due to excess AC use?

But it can never be comfortable without A/C in this environment. All the pass-throughs and open windows in the world aren't going to drop the humidity.

right. they need someone to come and take them to an air-conditioned place.

Building codes the world over need, as a matter of urgency, to command people to design for optimum energy efficiency. A/C is a ridiculous way of keeping people cool and is of course a huge net generator of heat. I have no statistics but I am willing to bet that a heavily air conditioned city is a couple of degrees hotter than it ought to be if everyone wasn't pumping the heat from their building to the urban environement.

Here's some keeping cool design tips:

Thick walls
Stone or tile floors
central courtyards
water features
basements
duct the heat away from your appliances
Big shuttered windows
unimpeded paths between windows on oposite sides of the house (wide doorwars and the like

This is even before you start getting into high technology.

Which one? Any of 'em.

I try to keep the A/C in the mid-seventies, just as long as it's cooler inside than it is outside. The electricity bill has whupped my ass the last few summers, and I'm scared to death of the unit getting overworked and breaking down.

I mean, I do live in Arkansas. If I can't stand the heat, I can always go somewhere else.

(I do try to stay out of the kitchen, tho'.)

This is true. It is an amazing sensation.

Maybe I'm expecting the worst of people, but I but they turn tables faster if they keep it freezing in there.

zacly

Dr. John Gorrie's the actual father of air conditioning.

the same goes for new trains, as silverlink axe the old trains with openable windows, and introduce new desiro class, it ushers in a new era when even suburban journeys will require wrapping up warm to get on the train a la virgin trains. people! i am inside! people in these climates built buildings to keep out of the cold and bad weather, not to get cold themselves!

its genetic, my mum loathes it, and i am getting that way.

super dud in the UK

you can get really sick from doing that. you gotta at least dry off.

thank you

air conditioning is nothing short of magic. central air in particular is something else. the way marshalls is like FREEZING this time of year. gotta love it.

SF has outdoor A/C on all summer, pretty much.

wtf is outdoor AC

http://www.weather.com/weather/local/94117?lswe=94117&lwsa=WeatherLocalUndeclared&from=whatwhere

Current local temp 56^o.

Tomorrow high of 67.

ugh LUCKY

I mean obv we can't all live in adobe huts...

Things are so fucking overrated, ugh. They do nothing.

i like that my current a/c cools the room really quickly so i don't have to run it for very long. no greenie guilt here.

Reminder:
this is a thread about one of the greatest achievements of our time: AIR CONDITIONING

Not where we express dislike or even question its supremacy in the order of inventions. A/C makes my life livable.

Jesse,
Chicago, IL

It is 63º out and I have the windows open and I still have had a fan blowing on me since 9 a.m. Some of us who are built like Eskimos turn into miserable puddles when it gets above 75 or so.

63º sounds amazing; that's like my ideal weather.

it is wonderful. i should probably live in san fran or portland.

I live in portland. We have some hot days, but never so many that air conditioning is anyhting but an unseemly luxury. If all else fails I can sleep in the basement for a couple of nights.

If it were not for air conditioning, cities like Phoenix would return to a population of maybe 50,000. This might be good or it might be bad, depending if they all wanted to move to portland.

i did live in portland for a spell a million years ago! lovely town, but the pollen was hell on my allergies and asthma.

2 months pass....

and it's hot as all hell and A/C is delicious

HOLY SHIT IT IS A THOUSAND DEGREES OUTSIDE...AND HUMID...my thermostat is at 80f (hardly cranked) and i just went outside a few minutes ago and my glasses fogged up instantly

soon though i'll go to the basement which even in this heat maintains it's dry yet lovely cavelike low 60s temp

Mmmmmm.
Office AC is at 72 and I have a fan on me and I'm quite happy.

It irks the shit out of me when people who have A/C don't use it b/c they "don't like it." What is there not to like? I realize that they might not like certain things about A/C, but in the winter do they not use heating b/c it dries the air?

It's only partially working in my building today. Sweet jesus. AC is practically a schedule 1 narcotic for me.

i haven't lived in a home with air conditioning for 15 years

(and it gets pretty hot here in the summer FYI)

Where are you, kkvgz and slocki?

Once in a while on a nice day when I don't have to be anywhere, it might feel good to sit and sweat into some light cotton clothes and drink something so cold that the glass frosts and hold ice cubes to my wrists etc and make like some kind of sun-kissed hedonist.

The rest of the time, crank that fucker up to 11.

DC. Actually, closer investigation revealed that it's actually cool outside today, so I opened a window.

¯\(°_o)/¯

In Florida central a/c is a must.

AC will be entirely essential here within a month. Plus, my home is actually on the Chesapeake Bay and it's like mosquito city out there.

My 12K BTU A/C is running while I'm away today. It will be comfortable when I get home, but more importantly, the cats won't look alarmingly heat-stricken and limp.

http://www.platypuscomix.net/hollywood/toaster2.jpg

I just got my entire HVAC system replaced this past week. It was frighteningly expensive, took many repair visits, and I'm not quite sure that it is working 100% as it should. But I live in Texas and I can't survive more than a day without AC in Spring, Summer, and Fall.

yeah yeah it's all well and good but please don't crank it all the way up so that when i escape into your establishment from the sweltering heat outside wearing i end up shivering and goosebumpy.

That is one of my comforts in summer - the cryo-stores and movie theaters. And of course, my home.

It irks the shit out of me when people who have A/C don't use it b/c they "don't like it." What is there not to like?

1) Higher electricity bills.
2) The notion that "you could learn to tolerate heat if you weren't such a spoiled yuppie brat" (i.e., liberal guilt).

And I hesitate to turn on my window A/C units because of an assumption that I'm wearing out the unit faster. Although this assumption does not appear to be based in sound science.

Heat in the winter raises utility bills, and I react to the notion that A/C is a yuppie luxury the same way I respond to these people: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/garden/21cold.html

Bf is more easily cold than I am, and also minds the heat less and thinks that AC makes you sick. It's possible that this is true: it creates a cold and dry atmosphere, which afaic is nearly the ideal climate but I can understand it dries out sinuses and breathing apparatus. However I also think that mildew or bacteria or even just dust can live/form in-between seasons and might give some people sensitivities, like when the AC first comes on in office buildings and everyone gets a cold or the sneezes from crap in the ducts or something.

xp do you turn your heat up in the winter so you end up sweating indoors?

having yr apartment/bar/movie theatre like jumping into a cold pool is a needless and wasteful luxury for sure.

In the winter I keep it the same temperature as in the summer - about 65-70 degrees. Unfortunately because I do not control my heat, so I often have to open windows in the winter in order to keep it comfortable (a not-uncommon problem for apartment dwellers).

As far as wasteful, nothing beats New Orleans, where the bars and restaurants open all their floor-to-ceiling doors, but still keep the indoors like a chest freezer. If you stick close to the buildings in the French Quarter, you can stay pretty cool walking down some blocks.

My A/C is broken. I live in Florida :(

I condole the crap out of you. When my A/C broke in NOLA (in July), I got a hotel room for two nights. The one night I spent in the house w/out A/C was more than I could bear. I showered and rinsed many times and lay in front of a fan. Awful. Thinking back, I probably should have camped out in my office, but it was nice to get a hotel.

xxp funnily enough the coldest air conditioning i've ever experienced was in a youth hostel in new orleans.

There is some pretty sweet A/C in the deep South. I definitely suffer more from the heat in Chicago than in NOLA or North Carolina b/c here in Chicago there are places without A/C and b/c I walk way more here. Down south, it's cold house/cold car/cold work/cold gym, etc.

The bars and restaurants in Chicago have big windows or doors that they open when it's warm, but a lot of times when they're open, they turn off the A/C.

Is it true that air conditioning is terrible for colds and allergies? How is this possible? I've heard this excuse a lot and would like to know more. Surely whether you put an air conditioner in a window or a fan in a window shouldn't make a bit of difference, right? And yes, air conditioning is absolutely one of the greatest achievements of our time.

It irks the shit out of me when people who have A/C don't use it b/c they "don't like it." What is there not to like?

the disgusting, weird, dry cold air quality it creates? a/c is kind of awful--i only use it on v. hot days in the car on the way to work so i don't have crazy hair or sweat like a mf.

I seem to recall that on high pollen/ozone days A/C is supposed to help b/c it filters the air. And I guess it's better than opening windows and letting in more allergens and pollutants.

xp - Dry and cold is what is what I like, I guess. Especially dry.

Also maybe it depends on how humid the natural air is. Chicago can get so humid in the summer that higher intellectual processes are impossible, so the dry and cold AC air is pretty much the best thing that ever happened.

It seems like everybody always gets a cold when the weather changes suddenly, so it stands to reason that walking from a humid 80F to a dry 65F and back several times a day would freak your body out in a similar way. I'm lucky enough to live in a place that doesn't need AC but even so I kind of hate the fact that I need to have a backup sweater at my air conditioned office when it's hot outside.

I live in one of the most air-conditioned cities in the world, so I have to say it's completely classic when you enter a shop or mall after walking around for half an hour in 95 degree 95% humidity heat, but pretty dud when you have to sit an office or your house for hours at a time.

I've been seeing a guy who keeps the central air in his small apartment at 64º. If that's not a sign that he's the one for me, then I don't know what is.

We're in the process right now, as in I'm waiting for the movers to arrive at our new place with our stuff, of moving from an apartment w/ central air to one without. It is causing some consternation.

Oh no. I hope you have window units. I mean, you MUST have window units, right?

Yup. It will be okay.

BTW - carbon footprint in our recently-purchased house is the size of a toddler.

Southern California, no A/C? No problem. Its called "shade." 'Tcha $20 summertime electricity bills.

Bf is more easily cold than I am

Are you sure he's a man?

xpost -- damn right. That and, if you're in the right spot, cross-breezes.

heyyy a thread where I totally agree w/ jd.

grew up in a place with good weather and a/c is basically weird and unnatural to me. gf grew up in florida and believes its a basic human right.

it's 83 right now - clearly I am right and there is no need for a/c. right? right? 83 is so fine and normal.

this is not about electricity bills btw...just think it's absurd to need to modify the weather on a nice breezy night like tonight.

I'm not a fan of A/C set below 78, but hey

That's right, exactly 78. Science

love A/C, makes it possible to live in many places otherwise inhospitable to human life, but the cynic in me realizes that when this whole global warming shit goes down our natural response is gonna be to crank up the AC, which is gonna more greenhouse gases, etc.

Also re NO. Guess where is going to be one of the first places to sink beneath the waves global warming induced sea level rises occur.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, July 6, 2003 7:33 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Or if a hurricane finally makes a direct hit, or etc. It's a pretty precarious place.

All's fair -- the city would be long since gone if the Army Corps of Engineers weren't redirecting the Mississippi River, so it's all bonus time at this point anyway.

― Tep (ktepi), Sunday, July 6, 2003 7:38 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what a difference 7 years makes

makes it possible to live in many places otherwise inhospitable to human life

don't get me wrong, I'm using the A/C right now and I understand that it's improved many aspects of western human daily life. When the A/C goes out on the metro I am miserable.

But the fact that it makes places hospitable that otherwise wouldn't be is kind of emblematic of what went wrong with the industrial age, ie, for a while we managed to delude ourselves into thinking we had conquered nature. We live in a society that expects the right to adjust the condition of air that is uncomfortable. That's fine, that's what it is, but that's a sharp break from the rest of human history, and a sharp break from even...before the 70s. And it's a sharp break, especially, from much of the rest of the world. We feel entitled, but we're actually playing this game with cheat codes.

it's 83 right now - clearly I am right and there is no need for a/c. right? right? 83 is so fine and normal.

Whoa. Wow. No. Maybe if it was a dry heat I could grit my teeth and power through, but otherwise, no.

Chicago is 81 right now. I have one small unit in my bedroom and I have shut myself and the cats in here (closed the bathroom, closet doors and door to the living room) and I'm sort of comfortable. Plus I have on a ceiling fan.

Granted, I have a particularly low tolerance for heat, but still, 83 is where the A/C is as necessary as heat in the winter.

u crazy

xpost to self
I realize the same thing could be said about the Internet, automobiles, on and on and on. It's not a coherent argument, really. But there's a part of me that takes a step back and feels completely ridiculous about the things we feel entitled to.

zs so otm

gf won tho a/c is on

Liberals Want to Turn off the Air Conditioning

lol

What is with A/C getting so hammered as such a target for criticism as an obscene luxury that is contributing to global warming? I have a hard time believing that those who avoid A/C and see it as decadent do without so many other equally harmful "luxuries" such as winter-time comfort, TV, lights, hot water, cars, buses, and most commonly available food.

xp- honestly, I wrote that before your post, Z S!

whatever, we all know you're a mod on the whitecivilrights.com messageboards!

it's mainly the fact that a/c units are pretty power hungry, like a 8000 btu a/c unit uses something like 2300 watts, add that to the fact that it's always on in the summer, and some people have more than one per house, etc.

:(

Love of A/C = strange bedfellows.

xp

What is next? The fridge?

I'm with Jesse on this one. 83 without AC in Boston would be unbearable to me because the humidity is usually so high. I also have a pretty low tolerance for heat. I don't have it on right now but I have a fan blowing directly on me from about a foot away and the AC will be on as soon as I hit the sack. I can't sleep if I'm hot. It's the most uncomfortable feeling for me.

I was living in London in 2003 when there was a big heatwave across Europe. Our apartment didn't even have window units and it hit the 90s for a week straight. I searched pretty much every electronics store in central and East London and they were all sold out of fans. That's right. 90s wihtout even a fan! I literally took a bath in ice water at one point and pretty much didn't sleep that entire week. It was awful.

Can we all agree tho that these are ridiculous?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3530/3737228479_7fdc81bdba.jpg

wait no those are rad I would trade our a/c for that

feel like a football player

Those things are AWFUL. They just make the heat good and clammy.

My friend was just visiting from Arizona and told me about these. I don't know, they sounded pretty great to me.

Maybe in AZ or somewhere with dry air they could be useful, but I've only experienced them at an amusement park in NC/SC (the park straddles the border) and at a stupid bar in Chicago, both of which places already felt like a steam bath, so those things just drove the heat home.

xp

it's water. being sprayed into the open air. in a desert. no one is even sitting at those tables!

In humid places it seems absurd but I can see why it would be good in AZ.

Maybe they should only be triggered when ppl are actually in the spaces where they're present.

water. the most precious resource in the area. sprayed into the air. to keep people a tad bit more comfortable when walking from a/c'd indoors to ac'd car.

you wouldn't even need that in AZ. it's so dry! dry heat is awesome. walk in the shade if you want to cool off

was so sure we could agree on this one, guys. so disappointed in you.

haha no we all agree

oh wait maybe not enbb

What is with A/C getting so hammered as such a target for criticism as an obscene luxury that is contributing to global warming? I have a hard time believing that those who avoid A/C and see it as decadent do without so many other equally harmful "luxuries" such as winter-time comfort, TV, lights, hot water, cars, buses, and most commonly available food.

I think this is a great point, and like I said, I'm pretty hypocritical in any criticism I might levy at A/C. And I'm always on the computer, and that uses a ton of energy as well and certainly isn't "necessary" for my existence.

Some of your luxuries you mention (TV, hot water) are good comparisons, because yeah, except at places like Grist, not too many people criticize the type of TV people use or the buses that people ride. But some people do criticize others for driving a Hummer, or leaving lights on constantly, etc. And if people had better information about the environmental impact of food they ate, they would probably bring that more up as well.

But I think the thing with A/C is that its abuse can be so obvious. It's fucking weird when you go to someone's house, it's snowing outside, and your friend is wearing shorts because they have it at 64 degrees inside. That line of thinking doesn't really differ from the dude who drives the Hummer 2 blocks away to buy beer (although, in my heart, I kinda respect that dude).

When I think of A/C, and electricity in general, all I can think about is a guy I knew in school that was from Pakistan. We were at someone's house and the power went out, and everyone started fucking freaking out after about 2 minutes like it was armageddon. My friend mentioned something about "rolling blackouts", and someone else asked what that meant. My friend just looked at me and CRACKED UP, it was the saddest fit of laughter I've ever seen.

x-post Nah, they're pretty ridiculous. Even I can see that.

wait why are buses a luxury

buses are the good guys

walk or ride a bike or a donkey you pampered ponce

buses can be pretty bad if they are old and use outdated engine tech

like I have seen some pretty unbelievable black plumes of smoke come out of them

yeah but it's still doing the job of 30 cars or whatever

As efficient as buses are, if you are able-bodied, you could be biking to virtually anyplace you take a bus.

(Not talking Greyhound, obviously. Rather, city buses.)

'if you are able-bodied' is key though - buses are the only form of transt for millions of old/disabled people in this country

I mean, I guess enjoy the nearly free A/C while you can. But unless something totally unexpected occurs (massive new fossil fuel reserves are discovered + global warming really is a massive global conspiracy with 10,000s of climate scientists in cahoots, or clean energy ramps up way faster than expected + the Senate passes strong climate/energy legislation looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-*FOREHEADSLAP*), the idea of someone saying 83 F is unbearable without AC is going to be hilarious in the near future.

yeah this level of energy consumption just needs to be actually expensive imo

I dunno that's basically my solution for everything, see suburb clusterfuck thread

Now we just need to get people who need to run for elected offices every 2-6 years to strongly endorse that idea. oh wait

dangit

there's a suburb clusterfuck thread? maybe I should go there and ruin that too!

*sad trombone*

haha I don't think you will find a way to come out more hated than I was

People Who Live In Suburbs: Classy, Icky, or Dudes?

I should probably stop ruining this thread, but I'll only reiterate that yeah, I do the A/C thing too, I don't mean to strongly criticize what is pretty much totally normal in our culture. Sometimes the cognitive dissonance that is apparently necessary to live functionally in our society overwhelms me and I react by pretending that I know what's going on

'if you are able-bodied' is key though - buses are the only form of transt for millions of old/disabled people in this country

I kind of thought of the arguments against A/C to apply very generally, and not take into account stuff like disabilities that might make A/C necessary for life (or at least good health), so I was applying the same to the notion that buses could arguably be luxuries.

Z S, you're not ruining anything. Your criticisms are well stated and not unilateral.

if my apt was 83° i wld never sleep, ever, from sweating all the time

my bf always wants to turn off the a/c & im like, dear god, no. i justify its wastefulness w/ the fact that i walk or bike everywhere & let the apt stay really cold all winter & barely use power for anything else

I dunno I think a lot of it is just what people are used to?

I agree that we're spoiled by cheap energy, however, my budget would have to change to pay for A/C. I mean, it does already, but if electricity doubled in price, other things would get cut before A/C (eating out, Netflix, name-brand groceries).

As I said upthread, I barely use heat in the winter. This worked out nicely in my previous place b/c the landlady was super stingy with the radiators, so it rarely reached even 65 inside and I never complained.

i grew up in new england and then canada so, yeah, i am not great w/ heat. although tbqf toronto summers are way more brutal than sf ime

its mostly just funny or not funny but s.thing bcuz i feel guilty abt how much ive been running the a/c this summer but it makes such a difference to my qol that i could probably justify murdering every polar bear currently alive, with my own hands, if it became necessary, tp preserve a 70° apt

seriously

I'm trying to backtrack and pretend I'm the other side of the argument that says blast the A/C, if you got it, flaunt it. And while I kind of viscerally disagree with that, I also see tons of holes in my own perspective. Because really, I guess my view boils down to the fact that I wouldn't be comfortable living in my apartment with A/C in July if I happened to live next door to a dude in Pakistan that was sweating his balls off. And if I lived in a hypothetical, representational neighborhood where it was like me and 19 other people with A/C and then 80 others who went without, I'd feel super awkward around them. And I definitely would not feel comfortable talking to my A/C-less neighbor and complaining about how hot it was and how the A/C can't seem to get the temp below 76, no matter how long I kept it on. It's like talking to someone without a job and complaining about how the raise you received wasn't as big as what you deserved.

But really, all of that just boils down to "We're living a lifestyle that is exceedingly luxurious compared to the rest of the world, and I feel guilty because I did absolutely nothing to deserve it." Which unfortunately isn't really a winning argument, it convinces no one to change anything. And of course, you can make the same argument about loads of other luxuries that we feel entitled to enjoy.

the whole thing - modern life - is absurd.

I grew up in coastal california in a city that doesn't use a lot of a/c and I never really even thought about the concept outside of like...malls/grocery stores.

anyway my opinion remains the same - everyone is spoiled - but this thread has probably made me think I should just let my gf win the 83+a/c argument (she already did of course) cause I guess she's the average person and I'm the weird one.

We are accustomed to a lifestyle that is far more comfortable than so many other people, and we take it as a given that this is what we deserve - A/C, cheap food, free time, cheap gas (in the U.S., anyway). As with anything, it's a matter of how close you are to seeing something different - if I moved to Mexico City, I think I would really struggle with owning two cats that get fed daily, get treats, toys, and regular medical care, when there are tons of people living in shanty towns who don't get any of that. And I cringe to think what kind of animal suffering, pollution, and waste go into making cat food.

Basically, we do owe other humans and the earth something, and I think reasonable and good people recognize that and make efforts to be helpful, but we will never individually meet our due, however hard we try, and guilt is not helping anyone.

I need to stop posting and give in to the Ambien b/c I think I'm heading into some kind of stoner talk.

I dunno the guilt does help on some level, people who feel guilty are probably willing to support attempts to fix these problems - even if it requires them to pay more $ / change their lifestyle in some ways.

obv that theoretical mechanism of change still needs to appear, but at least the guilty parties aren't gonna be pushing against it

old people don't need to be going places. unless it's to the bank to get a crisp $5 bill to put in my birthday card, i guess. maybe restock their supply of hard candy, fine.

been stayin in a house in bmore (94 degrees right now at 1:20 am, been much worse tho) and turnin into the most pro AC dude ever

go AC

which this house does not have

Seems to me that pro/con has as much to do with the humidity of your local climate as with the heat... like, I don't care how HOT it gets in scenic Italy or the mecca of adobe huts or SoCal - - - you would DIE if you moved to Atlanta even if you knocked ten degrees off the temperature. It's just a swamp, and yes, everything gets moldy and mildewy and gross so if you think you get sick from being in a place that's too air conditioned you should move into some of the rattletrap old houses I've been in in Georgia.

Mind you, I have a great fondness for those rattletraps, and I'm sympathetic to J0hnD's position, esp. after living in India for a little while and discovering how unbelievably fucking insanely cold the movie theaters are. Basically the few places there that have A/C just bombard you with it, and it takes its toll. But yeah, I have some education as an architect and I'm a little skeptical of the "if the building were just designed right it would feel just as comfortable" - - - this is totally true in hot-and-dry climates but totally NOT true in hot-and-wet ones.

a/c basically unknown in residential london. no need for it :(

the a/c on the new london overground trains is pretty brutal

oof yes

at work i need to have a sweater at my desk, which is just stupid

oh man i disagree. travelling on the east london line a few weeks ago was a treat, even when it got stuck in some east london crapwater for twenty minutes.

i am kind of amazed that ppl 7 years ago knew what was up. because no matter where you are and when, AC = miracle.

But unless something totally unexpected occurs (massive new fossil fuel reserves are discovered + global warming really is a massive global conspiracy with 10,000s of climate scientists in cahoots, or clean energy ramps up way faster than expected + the Senate passes strong climate/energy legislation looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-*FOREHEADSLAP*), the idea of someone saying 83 F is unbearable without AC is going to be hilarious in the near future.

Air conditioning is going to be the least of our worries when we get to this point. And the thing is, there are so many modern conveniences in Western countries (and particularly the US) that deserve demonization as much if not more than air conditioning. I mean, entire cities (LA, Las Vegas) are built on deserts without enough water to sustain them and only thanks to modern engineering miracles that waste untold resources can people live in those areas and have lawns. LAWNS. Grass in the desert. What purpose does that serve? AC at least improves quality of life and in some climates and for some people, allows people to function, but actual grass as opposed to xeriscaped yards? What the hell is that all about?

And here's the thing that always chaps my ass about the emphasis in this society on the responsibility of the individual to save the planet, etc.: it is impossible for an individual acting alone or even groups of individuals acting collectively to effect change that matters in any way without some level of institutional support and change. And these groups of individuals can protest and take part in movements and lobby and sometimes nudge these institutions in one direction or another, or consumer patterns might encourage paper towel companies to put a li'l bit of recycled content in their products (and slap a big old green label on the packaging), but without serious sweeping, institutional level change, "Ten Simple Things You Can Do to Save the Planet" is only so much guilt-alleviating wankery. Guilt-alleviating wankery in which I habitually participate, mind you (like ZS said, it takes a fuckload of cognitive dissonance to exist in this wacky modern world), but I'm not fooling myself into thinking I'm a superior Green Being, because the actual difference I'm making in light of the harm that is happening on a major global scale is practically non-existant. And frankly, when we're talking about capitalist institutions specifically, any time there is a conflict between profits and anything else, profits will win. If it costs too much money to make a change that supports sustainability, it is just not going to happen.

What I mean is that my foregoing air conditioning because a fellow in Pakistan doesn't have any is meaningless. It just means we're both going to be hot. The only solution is an honest to god, global equitable re-distrubtion of resources and that's going to require a complete overhaul in human behavior and thinking AND world leaders who are not power-mad egotists with an "I got mine, fuck you" (whether that "you" is their own constituents or the residents of other countries) mentality and maybe that will happen some day, but it's not going to happen because I turn off my window unit and spend my nights lying in a puddle of my own sweat, wishing for a swift and mercifully cool death.

(For a hilaritragic example of what I mean by the pointlessness of individual action when unsupported by institutional change (or when actively stymied by institutional inertia), see this article about Chicago and recycling: http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/chicago-recycling-blue-carts-service/Content?oid=2135422.)

it is hard to believe that Las Vegas - both the strip and the metro area - would exist in its current form without a/c

LA prolly would, even when it's hot there it's better than most of the country

Jenny I agree with almost all of your post but I don't think it's incompatible with the notion of maybe keeping the A/C set at a more reasonable level in your own home

sorry, that sounds more accusatory than I meant it to be. I just feel that adapting to existing in hotter temps is not... so hard*. I dunno, I feel this probably varies from person to person.

*obviously if your inside temp is 95 or above like poor bear up there it's not doable.

No, I agree. Keeping the AC so low that you need a sweater in July, for example, is absurd. I might run the AC when it's 83 out - depends on the humidity and whether that's a high or low. If it's 83 at 10 am or after dusk, hell yeah. If it tops out at 83 at 1 pm, prob not.

I like sleeping with just a sheet, the idea that I would actively make this more difficult to achieve boggles my mind

I guess here's how I break it down to an extent, and I don't really involve dudes from pakistan in my calculations (although they are there in the back of my mind) - I just figure, in terms of the appliances that I use the most, aircon units rank pretty high up there in terms of energy used. way up there. like a window mount can use 600-1000 watts depending on how big it is. my macbook has an 80W power adapter, TVs can go from under 50 to a couple hundred watts etc.

so I try to cut down on the A/C because it's a big power draw, and I don't think it's a big deal to wear less clothing or to cope. right now in the living room it's 78 and to me that's really comfortable, in my room it probably reaches 82-83 and I've learned not to mind.

And that's very well to make changes in your life as you see fit, but my beef was with whoever it was above it was who called A/C "decadent" and those chided those who use it.

without serious sweeping, institutional level change, "Ten Simple Things You Can Do to Save the Planet" is only so much guilt-alleviating wankery.

I would add that displays of guilt and spreading of guilt are often wankery as well because it seems to me that a lot of times, that guilt makes people feel like they are accomplishing something.

desperation and outrage lead to guilt which might lead to inconsequential individual changes, which alleviate the guilt.

A thermostat is made to control the temperature of an area in a way that is far more granular than the poles of FUCKING HOT and FREEZING COLD. My boss does not fucking get this. So when she feels that it's getting a little chilly (i.e. for her, 72 degrees), she turns the thermostat to 79 or??? she turns the A/C off completely. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

Why not:

1. choose the various options that exist between 72 and 79? Or 72 and OFF??
2. close the vent in her office?

You know the answers to these questions. Which is not to say that you shouldn't come here to complain. You should.

It's just that I got back from running errands outside in the miserable heat and I was looking forward to a nice cool office, and I come in and it's fucking 80 degrees in here. I was a little short with her (very unlike me) when I said "Well, everyone else is burning up."

Also? What bugs me? When the other people in the office come to me and say, "Jesse, why is it so hot in here?"

Tell them to go ask Suzie Hotflash.

LOL

hahahaaasksjdf

I'm pretty sure she's done with that period of her life.

Holy kraut, the difference between my power use this past August (a very, very hot month) v. November and December is astounding: 501 kWh versus 150-167 kWh ($76 v.+- $30).

What's a good power of ac to comfortably cool a midsize studio apartment? I don't
know the square feet but it's one large-ish long room plus attached kitchen thru an open archway.
I currently have in a 5,000 btu unit and it's not doing much but I fear escalating my electricity. My unit
has been on 60 degrees and high for the past 3 hours and the only positive effect is that I am not sweating.

My apartment is about 450 square feet and I'm pretty sure the one I got was a 12K BTU, and it does the job. I googled suggestions for BTUs per square footage and they were helpful.

I finally gave in and popped my A/C in the day before yesterday when it got above 80º and humid and I knew sleep would be impossible.

The thermostat for our central AC is having some kind of schizophrenic break and thinks the temperature inside our house is in the upper 90s - low 100s. It's actually in the upper 70s, but trying telling that to the thermostat. So the air runs constantly unless I turn it off altogether.

Supposedly a new thermostat gets delivered today and supposedly I'm going to install it. I was viewing this DIY chore with great trepidation until my wife reminded me that I replaced one at our old house about 20 years ago. The positive side of senility! Whatever man has done, etc.

are you getting a Nest Learning Thermostat