Marriage

To Ed -- is she worth it? If so, why not? :-)

What do you want to do when you're older?
I don't know.
You don't know what career you want?
That's RIGHT.
You want to get married and have kids, though?
I DO?

probably not the most solid basis for a marriage.

This is mainly because I find it hard enough to find anybody I can even stand in a friendship capacity, let alone someone to live with Forever And Ever.

this is completely my situation. waited six years before i asked, but at the time i bought the ring, i was jobless. i spent half of my savings on the ring because the way i looked at it, i loved her and she meant that much to me. what else was i really going to be doing with the money. i'm young and i'll be able to save it again.

the entire year planning the wedding was the most stressful time of my life. we did the whole big traditional wedding (Pebble Beach, yowza!). her parents are filipino catholic, so that's the way it's going to be done, period. after many, many times of thinking why the fuck am i doing this, the wedding came (2 months ago) and it was the most wonderful day of my entire life. seriously. to have 150 of your closest friends and family members there to share your love with each other. it's beyond amazing.

now we're married and guess what. it's no different than normal living together life. which means everything's good.

uh, so, yeah, like i'm married and it's pretty alright i guess.

(Ally in being a bling ass motherfucker shocker)

I don't know who I'd invite to a big wedding anyway. Yesterday's company meeting was held downtown in this very fancy art deco ballroom. A co-worker was telling me her friend had a wedding party there (and it was over $15k including light catering). So of course I was thinking about what it would be like. But then I thought what a shame it would be if hardly anyone showed and we had a handful of guests in that huge ass room...

But wasn't it funny that I typed 'huge ass' on the marriage thread?

Dude! I want to get married right now!!! I hate you ILX! I want to wear this dress!!!!!!

http://a1000.g.akamaitech.net/f/1000/806/12h/images.theknot.com/GownDesigners/Edenmaids/edbmf037042l.jpg

Create a new tradition: non-marriage party gowns: pretty enough to hide everything, and it doubles as a sleeping bag when you're caught out in the woods.

My step-mom's youngest sister paid $25k for her wedding - even though it was in my dad's back yard! Her marriage only lasted 6 months. Blah. She got home from work one day and her husband is sitting at the kitchen table with this look on his face. He says, "I found someone else. You need to pack up and leave."

http://images.theknot.com/tuxedosearch/gingiss/gings030017l.jpg

If anyone I get married to shows up wearing it, conversely, the wedding will be immediately cancelled.

Tuxedos are weird anyway.

bridemaids with coke habits, apparently.

Millennium Wedding Credo: "If the entire wedding cost isn't bigger than the National Deficit, tis usually back to the drawing board."

this is a terrible example

http://arcanelore.com/frenchrenaissance/lestatcomplete/lestatside.jpg

http://bitchcakes.topcities.com/images/Kearney.jpg

http://bitchcakes.topcities.com/images/dress1.jpg

haha I'm just shitting all over this thread, wtf.

http://www.casamai.com/darkside/images/frock_coat.jpg
http://www.casamai.com/darkside/images/pirate_coat.jpg

Frock coats went our with the snuff boxes and the maggot-infested powdered wigs...

pix plz

kthxbye

http://media.condenet.com/style/view/56/55/100105556.jpg
http://media.condenet.com/style/view/71/56/100105671.jpg

Talk to me, Harry Winston! Tell me all about it!

Indeedy, Dan. Nothing says "Ew" to your fiancee, like maggots dropping into her soup as you bend over to kiss her hand.

Ally, I tried to create a virtual model too, but she was ugly, so I was thinking, "Damn you, w3ddingchannel.com, making me look so hideous!"

And with these words, Joei goes up another million notches on my Esteem-Meter for bravery....

As if I actually have any prospect to seriously think about marriage in the near future.
:^(

Hmmmm. Just thinking about how on Earth I could use this skill, though....

Anyone in the US want a wedding coordinator?

BEST STORE EVER.

If I was to get married now I would wear a dress like this:
http://us.ent3.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/tv_pix/mtv/mtv_video_music_awards_2003_photos/britney_spears/mtv10.jpg

(details for the interested: dated for 5 years, lived together for 3, approx. 125 guests, less than $5k, custom made engagement ring and bands, divorced in year 3)

Bridesmaid dresses were floor-length purple crepe, straight skirt, cap sleeves. Tasteful. My colors were purple and coral (::shudder::).

That evil-looking woman is standing in the doorway of the chapel telling me that I can't come to the wedding because I'm just too fat to be seen with her and her friends.

I dunno wht to advise, Jaq :(

You don't have children, do you? (disclaimer: neither do I, but I do understand maternal feelings)

Jaq, how open are your children with you about your feelings? It may be, yes, she's aware of his parents feelings, but she'll also have her own which not really be the easiest to discuss with one's mum. I don't think I've ever told my parents exactly how I feel about my husband, I tend to laugh things off and make flippant comments because I assume they know the reason I married him and remain married to him is because, first and foremost, I love him and am in love with him (it was my big brother who points out the importance of both of those feelings). I don't feel it needs to be said, perhaps your daughter is the same?

They have both said they don't want kids.

What difference does that make?

The difference being it's very very difficult for a mother not to be concerned about a child. I know the wise thing to do would be to stand back and watch the daughter screw her life up, it's her life after all, but I think the reaction of a good parent would be to try and make sure that the child wasn't going to be hurt. I can't imagine *any* parent I know standing back going "right then, I'll just stand back and not do anything while you get hurt".

Thusly you advocate the unwise act!

Let's not look at it like "screwing up her life" so much as "making her own choices"

(Pats Jaq sympathetically and offers kleenex)

There's a few things I don't get though. "Nobody cares that they live together", for example. Who is meant to care? Presumably the pair of them do? Is it that he's not well-paid? My husband is somewhat under-employed, and I "support him". Except I see it as "supporting us" because we're, you know, a couple. And I know I've said it already, but what difference does the fact that *neither* of them want kids make? Did she want them previously and he's put her off? Or do you just want a grandchild out of this? (sorry, that seems rude, but it seems such a non sequitor)

http://www.thebiglug.com/images/worried.jpg

I read some of those things as meaning, "typical reasons that drive people to 'formalize' their relationship through marriage," without necessarily saying that they were good reasons either. ie., it's not as if they live in a society that discriminates against them for living together and therefore they have that pressure to get married. etc.

btw, it would be better if people didn't equate a failed marriage with "screwing your life up." sometimes we make mistakes, in relationships as well. "screwing her life up" would be getting married and not leaving an unhappy or abusive relationship, or spending the rest of your life paying (p)alimony to a leech of an ex.

if they're talking about getting married in December, there's still a lot of time before anything actually "happens" -- the pressure of finally actually working toward the concrete event may also be enough to force her to break things off. (if that's what she wants.)

Yeah, I never thought about it that way, maybe because I don't think of it that way for myself. That makes sense though, thanks.

Above all, I want my daughter to be happy. Being coerced into a legally binding relationship, when she doesn't really desire it, for whatever reason, seems to me not conducive to happiness. I haven't said anything to her about it, aside from saying she really shouldn't get married if she doesn't want to be married. She would be fine with it if they just stayed living together.

I have my opinions as to why this guy, as nice as he is (because really, he is a nice guy), would be a disaster for her as a husband. But those are my opinions and I don't express them to her.

She is also facing the pressure of finishing her master's degree in December. That, in addition to being pressured to be married in December, sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

ailsa, your brother is wise.

If she had not postponed the initial wedding date, and had not told me she really didn't want to be married, I'd have no issue with her marrying because I would assume it was something she wanted, for good or ill. Mostly, I've tried to be supportive of her and neutral - just offering practical ideas, information about what it means to be married in a community-property state, pointing out the options. I think Mr. Noodle is right though, and I will ask her if she'd like to know the whole of what I'm feeling about this. It's hard, because my own opinion of marriage is colored by the 18 years I was married to her father, and I do not want to be critical of him to her.

Wm, you're also right - standing by watching my kids from the sidelines, preparing for damage control without actively jumping into the fray and "saving" them is incredibly difficult, because I care so much about them. But as Noodle says, having the option to take risks and screw up is a big part of adulthood.

And Mr. Jones, really. Where did I say anything about wanting to control her actions or that she was screwing up her life?

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Lou_Reed_marries_Laurie_Anderson_re_04252008.html

Marriage is what you make of it, where "you" = both of you. No more or less.

Sounds trite. Stupid. But it surprises me how often 'marriage' is blamed for failed marriages, as if it had some malign power of its own. It doesn't. It's just two people trying to strike a balance of terror power through cooperation and communication. No magic involved.

And, since you can't make a marriage work all by yourself, however much you sweat bullets trying, it is a good idea to choose your spouse as wisely as you possibly can, given all the hormones at work at the time of the choosing.

^^^^^^^^this.

Its a daily thing, like most anything else. You gotta choose to make it work.

Other than red wine. It pretty much fucking rocks just sitting there.

Excuse me, DG, *I* was going to be the blushing bride. You're just too manly.

-- Ned Raggett, Wednesday, September 19, 2001 5:00 PM (Wednesday, September 19, 2001 5:00 PM) Bookmark Link

shop?

Someone I know once said any relationship is the two people in it making the daily decision to want to stay together. I like that.

being married is kinda like not being married except you're married

when you get sick and tired of being married, it costs you upwards of about $1500 on top of god knows. when you get sick and tired of not being married, it costs you whatever you didn't pay for in the first place.

in many respects, I am an extremely, EXTREMELY lucky dude

regardless, I would get married again in a heartbeat if I felt like it.

Motherfucker.

i wouldn't mind being married if i could be.

that means finding someone first, which will probably happen after laws change

They have laws against finding someone?!

How many marriage threads are there?

being gay is an impediment to getting married here in the unenlightened states is what i think he meant. (xpost)

i've been married so long I don't know what to think about it anymore.

aimless' generally OTM comments reminded me of something a shrink said to me once about how people choose mates -- that you reach a phase in yr life where there's a physical/psychological imperative to marry/partner, a window of opportunity, and who you wind up with is less of a conscious choice than a gut reaction, a kind of overlapping with somebody else in the same phase. I think that's what he said.

of course this doesn't explain the ever growing number of happy post-divorce second marriages, so maybe this guy was just filling out the hour with some bullshit theory he concocted.

being gay is an impediment to getting married here in the unenlightened states is what i think he meant. (xpost)

Not in MA! We saw two guys getting married by a pond in the Boston Commons last weekend. It was very sweet.

my wife and I celebrated 10 years of making it work yesterday! fuck yes! and we did it the same way we celebrated on the day after the wedding: by watching the Cubs lose.

(at the ballpark I mean - our marriage has benefited greatly from going to see the Cubs lose at key points)

haha congrats!

For maybe the first time ever I'm with someone I could honestly imagine being married to - and I'm really "whats the point?" about the whole thing for the most part (dont want kids, religious/legal aspects of no relevance to me). But yeah.

being married is weird. i dunno, i can't imagine doing it with anyone but maria. i guess that's the point of the whole thing. i didn't grow up with religion or anything like that, and i hate society cuz i'm a punk rocker, but it seemed right at the time. it's a statement of sorts. plus, our wedding was cool:

http://www.nba.com/media/sixers/vw_c5.jpg

Marriage is different from living together in a couple ways.

You get married in front of your friends and family, so it has a more broadly social and community aspect to it. Family and society both lend greater support to married couples, because the relationship has been given a known definiton and structure, and they know more what to expect.

Secondly, it strengthens the formal commitment to one another to keep trying when things get rough (not "if", because they always do). Sometimes that extra commitment gets you through the rough spots, and there are real rewards to achieving that longevity (but better sex is not one of them).

The challenges of living together are precisely the same as in marriage, so it's not like you get off any easier for avoiding the ceremony. You only get off a little easier if you decide to end the relationship.

"You get married in front of your friends and family, so it has a more broadly social and community aspect to it"

or, just for the sake of argument, a dwarf, a rabbit, cleopatra, and marc antony. just sayin'...

Someone mentioned to me today the concept of finding someone you can live with for the rest of your life... I can't even imagine living with myself for the rest of my life, at least not without major changes in lifestyle. The thought horrifies me.

-- Al, Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:00 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Link

haha on first glance I thought wrote this, posted under that name for a while but I'm pretty sure I didn't even fin ILX until October '01. my marriage begins in 14 days. I'm pretty optimistic about it.

fin=find

Congrats and good luck!

J. and I are a month from our 23rd anniversary.

Marriage has been very satisfying for me, for almost 5 years now. The fact that I have a partner whom I can count on to be there and not be insane or flake out or ream me a new one when I transgress against some never-stated law means immeasurably much to me. Conversely, having someone whose happiness I truly give a shit about -- not the kinda shit you give when trying to avoid a fight and get laid -- truly enriches my life. I still buy gifts, flowers, etc. for her, give foot massages, and so on, which honestly is something I never did for any of my 20-some years of pre-marriage girlfriends. So yea, I endorse marriage.

it's gonna be awesome Alex in Baltimore I just know! Congrats!

I think so, yeah. I play well with others IRL better than I do here, I swear!

J. and I are a month from our 23rd anniversary

Congratulations! My wife and I are coming up on our 12th anniversary.

The fact that I have a partner whom I can count on to be there and not be insane or flake out or ream me a new one when I transgress against some never-stated law means immeasurably much to me

what kind of fairy tale marriage are you in???

just kidding

congrats to a in b

a dwarf, a rabbit, cleopatra, and marc antony. just sayin'...

Weddings can be mocked or disrespected, just like anything else. Just sayin'...

I see nothing disrespectful about Mr. Seward's ceremony.

Hey, if a dwarf, a rabbit, cleopatra, and marc antony constitute Mr. seward's friends and family, then I fail to see what his point was, but I can still live with that.

jesus christ on the fucking cross how did I end up a mod to you people

I am sorry. I have no information on that matter. I should think you'd have some recollection, though.

The fact (?) that Seward's "event" constituted a legal ceremony demonstrates more respect toward the institution of marriage than anything else he could have done.

Marriage completely scares the shit out of me. Two of my friends have these destructive, depressing marriages (one is going through a really painful process of ending). They constantly remind me how drastically their partners changed after marriage--is this inevitable? The result of the wrong choice in person? Or just plain their fault?

Another friend dated his current wife for a year, got married, then waited a whole 4 months before conceiving a child, and I keep waiting nervously for the (seemingly) inevitable congress of shit and fan.

On the other hand what libcrypt has sounds awesome, and congrats to the others who are celebrating long years of marriage. I might get there somehow but I can't possibly imagine it.

*many long years, or just many years, whatever it's been a long day

People changing after marriage is indeed inevitable. Change is inevitable in most areas of life. Doesn't mean that your chosen life-partner will change into some horrid soul-eating monster.

Generally speaking, you do need to have enough flexibility to accomodate change. However, if the change invalidates whatever you loved about the person, then accomodation is not the correct answer. Loveless marriages do not work well for anyone.

I think they were talking about sudden, scary, "OK we're married now so I'm gonna act like this" kind of change, but I'm sure I'm only getting one side of the story, and you're totally OTM.

I don't necessarily think being in the relationship for a long time before marrying is inherently better or improves the overall chances of longevity, but I feel a lot more comfortable about my future having been w/ my fiancee for 6 years now. In a way I'm glad certain factors (like going to colleges 2 hours apart when we met, being too broke to afford a ring for a couple years after we eventually moved in together) kept us from reaching this point earlier. I think some of the growing pains we had early on, and especially when we first lived together, would've felt a lot more serious and relationship-threatening if we were 'husband and wife' at the time. My parents knew each other for literally one month when they married, and I think the inevitable "change" (or revealing of unknown personality traits) probably had a lot to do with their divorce. I think my fiancee and I know each other about as well as we can, so I'm assuming there won't be any unpleasant surprises from here on out, it'll just be a matter of actually doing the right thing consistently, and not fucking up my life like I have in the past, because I will now share that life with someone else.

People who suddenly radically change?

People who are scared shitless are more likely to act radically different on short notice. Marry someone who won't crap their drawers when confronted with trouble. Get one courageous lover, because courage is love's second face.

I credit much of whatever success I've had with my marriage to that I got married at 35, not 25 or younger. I definitely wasn't mature enough for marriage in my 20s. Obviously, this generalization doesn't apply to everyone, but it's worth a box on the marriage checklist.

All good advice, and duly noted.

I am anticipating future marriage and then the soon to follow divorce!

Of the married people I know, I can't really see any of them as having changed a whole lot since they were married. Nothing drastic, at least, or suddenly having to act like some sort of mythical married couple. Then again, 99% of the married couples I know (friends, siblings, cousins) lived together for at least a year before they got married. It's gotten to the point where it seems sort of weird and deliberately obtuse to not do this.

I think any "change" that people notice is something that was there all along but was ignored or repressed until it comes out later during the marriage. Living together first lets you fish these kinds of things out and deal with them to some degree, or at least not be shocked when it happens when you suddenly have to live together.

It'll be 7 years of marriage this summer, but we moved in together, combined finances and merged CD collections 3 years before that. We've both changed but not in unexpected or confusing ways.

http://www.theschooloflife.com/blog/2014/06/how-we-end-up-marrying-the-wrong-people/

kind of wish this would apply to dating, but maybe dating serves a different purpose to most?

https://i.imgur.com/W6EEqGb.jpg

Super interesting data comparing same-sex married couples in the US vs opposite-sex couples:

https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2024/demo/acsbr-020.pdf