A thread to talk abt the england vs south africa series

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The fourth day of the first test: eng 147-3 with m vaughan in beautiful form (currently 73 not out) in reply to a massive south african total. Eng need abt 250 more to avoid the follow on.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Vaughan is just hitting some beautiful shots. really enjoying this.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

and the man gets a hundreds. not that troubled or anything. what a fine fine player.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

if he scores another 170, say, we should be out of this tricky situation.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

fourth wicket gone. but its not vaughan. 160 to go to avoid the follow and he is the key player (and how many times will we say this in the coming years).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

It's still going be tight. If Vaughan and Stewart stay for the whole session we should be OK, but that's a big if, a least wrt Stewart.

― RickyT (RickyT), Sunday, 27 July 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

it was an absolute pleasure watching Vaughn during the Ashes here in oz. such a pity it was a lone hand.

― Chris Radford (Chris Radford), Sunday, 27 July 2003 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

299 - 4!

Stewart has a gammy knee.

SA will have problems in the third test without Pollock.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 27 July 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Third test w/o Pollock? Has he got a dentist's appointment or something?

Stewart's mime for McGrath was classic. His batting seems to be suffering as well as his running though.

― RickyT (RickyT), Sunday, 27 July 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

He's going home after the second test, coz his wife is having a baby! Won't be back 'til the 4th test.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 27 July 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

stewart is playing a great innings considering that he's played much of it with that knee of his. Vaughan still there, from 100-150 it was pretty slow as he had to see off the new ball but he adapted v well and now that they have seen it off I'd like to think that there'll be anice flurry of runs to end the day.

but anyway, 100 or so runs to avoid the follow on.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

vaughan and stewart gone in quick sucession. so it looks like its all down to flintoff.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

We just gotta see out today!

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 27 July 2003 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah. flintoff has improved as he has shown in the one day series and he has to start showing how good he can be in the test arena. abt 10 overs to go.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 16:32 (twenty-two years ago)

he's doing OK so far, but I don't trust him not to get nervous and start tonking the ball around

― RickyT (RickyT), Sunday, 27 July 2003 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

so far so good, actually. sensible defence with some fucking good shots (but actually he almost got out as i type this, giles went to talk to him).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Why don't we belt Peterson out of the ground? This kicking thing doesn't help anyone.

― Daniel (dancity), Sunday, 27 July 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, if England do make the follow on, what do you think Smith will do?

― RickyT (RickyT), Sunday, 27 July 2003 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

20 runs to go. but flintoff is just out.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

If I were him, I'd try and get a lead of 250 asap, and then declare. England (apart from Vaughan) look vulnerable enough for this to give SA a win.

Flintoff gone. Oh arse.

― RickyT (RickyT), Sunday, 27 July 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

and play has just ended. a nerve racking morning to come.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Second last ball of the flaming day.

― Daniel (dancity), Sunday, 27 July 2003 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

well there had to be more drama but I think they are out of trouble, that was a wonderful innings (think positive you all).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, well done Freddie! Very unlucky to get such a grubber.

Goughie will either make 20 or be out first ball. I hope the former!

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 27 July 2003 18:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Now, if SA declare with a reachable target it could be v exciting.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 28 July 2003 09:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Hope so, but they'll want to be fairly safe first. And Hussain is not known for throwing caution to the wind as a captain.

― Daniel (dancity), Monday, 28 July 2003 10:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I think England will play safe. It'd be nice if they gifted SA a quick 70 or so for a declaration and then threw Vaughan at them in some mad dash for 250, but i doubt they'll bother.

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 28 July 2003 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Get in! That's some confidence for Anderson.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 28 July 2003 10:11 (twenty-two years ago)

(at least the England bowlers get a chance to get some confidence ahead of Lords)

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 28 July 2003 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Kirsten gone!

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 28 July 2003 10:26 (twenty-two years ago)

But isn't Smith good?

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 28 July 2003 10:30 (twenty-two years ago)

No. I'd like to see Smith against Gillespie and McGrath or indeed any bowling attack that can put the ball in the right place (i.e for Smith 18 inches outside the off stump) and move it in the air or off the seam both ways. We gifted him most of his 277 - the only bowler who troubled him was Giles.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 28 July 2003 10:44 (twenty-two years ago)

But didn't he make runs against Australia?

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 28 July 2003 11:00 (twenty-two years ago)

A 68 and a 42 in four innings. Not awful, by any stretch in a losing series.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 28 July 2003 11:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Didn't giles bat wonderfully this morning? Not nerve racking at all.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 July 2003 11:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I reckon they'll declare at 120 leaving them around 60 overs to get us out. We should be OK, but the variable bounce worries me. The ball that got Flintoff was unplayable.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 28 July 2003 11:33 (twenty-two years ago)

with pollock there anything is possible but as long we see him off it should be a draw.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 July 2003 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Five fours in an over for Trescothick! Pollock really is a class above the other SA bowlers.

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 28 July 2003 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah Ntini is way too expensive.

― Sam (chirombo), Monday, 28 July 2003 13:01 (twenty-two years ago)

So - 291 off 57 overs. A touch over 5 an over - we should have a thrash at this definitely. Pollock aside - the other bowlers are hittable, looks like Tres has gone after Ntini already.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 28 July 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

They both have. But now Peterson is going to bowl two feet outside leg stump for the rest of the day.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 28 July 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I just do not understand Test cricket. Why bring in a spinner at this stage?

― Sam (chirombo), Monday, 28 July 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

the wicket is taking spin sam.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 July 2003 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

and also it needs some variety (I'm just looking at the scoreboard as I'm at work but tres is wacking it so its a good tactic as long as the bowler is up for it).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 July 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

It's a containing tactic, the right hander won't be able to score any runs against the spinner bowling outside leg.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 28 July 2003 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Nasser's had enough! I don't blame him for going. But, I don't want him to go, they'll make Vaughan captain and he'll lose his form.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 28 July 2003 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

What England need is a Pollock or a McGrath type bowler, stop being so concerned with pace! The bowling attack was a bit too samey IMHO.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 28 July 2003 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Nasser Hussain has resigned as Captain
Last Updated: Monday, 28 July, 2003, 17:43 GMT 18:43 UK

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Hussain quits as captain

Nasser Hussain has stunned the cricketing world by resigning as England Test captain.

I wasn't quite the captain that England needed or wanted on Thursday

Nasser Hussain

The 35-year-old batsman ended his four-year reign after the drawn first Test against South Africa at Edgbaston.

Michael Vaughan, the one-day captain, will lead the side in the second Test at Lord's which begins on Thursday.

Hussain will feature in that match as a player, since he has no plans to retire as yet.

Hussain said: "Michael Vaughan has shown in the last few months that he is a very capable leader.

"I think there are some young lads in there that will play under him and I think the last thing they want is a tired leader."

Hussain, who made his Test debut in 1990 in the same match as fellow veteran Alec Stewart, said the captaincy was "not just something you do".

He added: "I've always said it's something you have to do 100%.

"There are only so many times you can go to the well in terms deep for the team."

And in a reference to England's poor performance on the first day of the Edgbaston Test, he added: "I wasn't quite the captain that England needed or wanted on Thursday."

In Hussain's time as captain, England rose from being one of the weakest Test nations to one of the best, though he failed to achieve his main ambition - to win the Ashes.

After a poor winter campaign, culminating in England's failure to qualify for the Super Six stage of the World Cup, Hussain said he had had enough of one-day internationals.

HAVE YOUR SAY
Its probably the right time to go but Vaughan should not be captain

From Barmy Fred
Join the debate
But he said he retained a desire to captain his country in the longer form of the game.

England named an unchanged team for Lord's, despite batsman Marcus Trescothick's fractured finger.

Hussain replaced wicket-keeper and batsman Stewart as captain in 1999.

England won 17 and lost 15 of the 45 Tests in which Hussain captained the side.

Last week, Stewart, 40, announced he would quit international cricket at the end of the series at The Oval in September.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/eng_v_sa_2003/3104963.stm

― Rasan, Monday, 28 July 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh crap. Just at the point where we actually have a world class batsman, we make him captain. And now we have to watch as his form goes down the shitter. Great.

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 28 July 2003 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Why would his form *have* to suffer? He might be like Graeme Smith ...

― Mooro (Mooro), Monday, 28 July 2003 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, I know, he might not, but it still feels risky. It's unlikely he's going to get any better than this, y'know?

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 28 July 2003 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't get the timing of this. why not resign at the end of the summer?

xpost: well, vaughan had a shaky start to the summer and only got his batting form back once the one day internationals started and he was captain for those.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 July 2003 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Good news. Hussain's time has passed - he may struggle to stay in the team for much longer unless he gets BIG runs at Lords.

I don't think captaincy will affect Vaughan's batting.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 08:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Hussain will make a hundred at Lord's.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh dear! Worst day's play evah. Gough, Harmison and Flintoff will have to do very very well to play in the next match. Hopefully, Hoggard will be back by then. England really do miss Andy Caddick.

This is just so depressing :(

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, its fucked up.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't get me started on this.

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 1 August 2003 01:08 (twenty-two years ago)

It's fucking disastrous.

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 1 August 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is this happening? WHY!!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 1 August 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

What on earth has happened to England?

― RickyT (RickyT), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

England have not so much as travelled SA all day. SA will declare on 500+ maybe even for one at this rate.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

England are even being butter fingered with balls on the ground.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Jimmy Ormond and Ian Salisbury will get recalls at this rate!

Bring back Phil DeFreitas!

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't joke about it Jel. Please.

― RickyT (RickyT), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

some very cocky singles and nothing is being done to capitalise on this.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 1 August 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

A WICKET!

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 1 August 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry to do this but it must be done.

eng 270-6: butcher and hussain with two nice half centuries but played careless shots to go out (hussain needed to make a double hundered of his own to make up for his moment of madness on thursday).

so we shouldn't be 1-0 down by the end of the day but correct me if I'm wrong: that this is following on from the pattern of the last two series between eng south africa in this country: that is south africa go 1-0 up and then we recover.

I think gough should go and graham thorpe should come back.

what sez you?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 3 August 2003 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Gough and Harmison will be lucky to make the next test. Hoggard and maybe Johnson will play. McGrath could also be out, and it could mean Thorpe gets another chance. Jimmy Anderson will stay in, but he looks like he's losing confidence too often. Learning to shape the ball away from the left hander at a good length, would be something to work on. England badly miss Caddick, because his strength is bounce and length, whereas the 3 main bowlers on display were all too similar, and bowling at a nice easily hitable length.

Anyhow, well done Andy Flintoff, for providing at least a day's watchable cricket!

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 3 August 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

They will have to look at this attack. Gough should have never been recalled in the first place and it shows that the selection process can be really confusing.

I'd say Hoggard for gough are out and what abt simon jones: is he still injured?

I just heard thorpe has a back injury but if he can play then he must.

And yes, Flintoff is really been great and I think that avg of 22 will go up v quickly.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 3 August 2003 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Flintoff was ace. As far as changes go I think Thorpe for McGrath, Kirtley for Gough and Read for Stewart, whose keeping was appalling. Harmison should stay, at times he looked genuinely menacing and I don't think he deserved his figures, now if only somone could get him to hold a line...or at least set a field which flatters his tendency to rear nasty throat balls off back of a length. England need more variation in the pace attack (which is why Kirtley needs to come in, his is a skiddy, bouncy action which would test Smith's tendency to leave balls he shouldn't, also HOW MANY RUNS DID HE SCORE TO LEG FOR GOD'S SAKE? if Johnson is fit enough then he's a decent alernative as at least he can hold a line, even if he is a bit one-dimensional.)
Also, Martin Saggers is worth a shot on current form, england need bowlers who can contain.
Trescothick, Hussain and Butcher have all done enough, but someone needs to get Butcher to the psychologist pronto to teach him to bloody concentrate - is all the more frustrating because on song he england's most sublime batsman by some distance. As for Giles, someone find me a credible alternative and I'll embrace the idea, Keedy perhaps?
Julio, Simon Jones is just starting to bowl again, should be an automatic choice for winter tours but not this summer.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 4 August 2003 00:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Ek het gelag en gelag (en ook het doktor vick).

― Sam (chirombo), Monday, 4 August 2003 07:44 (twenty-two years ago)

My changes : Hussain, McGrath, Stewart and Gough to go.

Nasser is yesterday's man and despite a decent knock yesterday he is not the type of man who can go back to being one of the team. His presence is not constructive.
McGrath is clearly not up to it - three consecutive dismissals show his lack of technique angainst decent fast-medium bowling with a bit of movement and bounce.
Stewart, sadly is looking past it.
Gough - has lost pace, rhythm and seemingly the ability to bowl those inswinging yorkers which used to be so devastating. I wouldn't write him off for ever, given the lack of alternatives, but at the moment he is no threat to the SA top order.

So who comes in?

I'd replace Hussain and McGrath with Ed Smith and Graham Thorpe. Smith is unproven, but in the form of his life and Thorpe is sheer class. Whether Thorpe *will* come in depends on how Vaughan gets on with him, but somehow they must find a way to include him.

For wicket keeper, Read should play although this leaves the obvious problem of whether to play 4 or 5 bowlers. If 4 then an extra batsman could be picked and if 5 then Flintoff must bat at 6, Read at 7 and leave a longer tail.
Since the next game is at Old Trafford, we need at least one spinner and Giles should stay in the team. I'd be tempted to play three pace bowlers in addition. This leaves the long tail - but we HAVE to bowl them out twice. I'd go for Anderson, Johnson and Harmison but this line-up looks pretty threadbare and lacking in experience. Sadly no-one else with experience is fit. If somehow they could patch Hoggard up I'd go for him instead of Johnson, but I read that he won't be fit until Headingley. If we HAVE to pick a new pace bowler I'd go for Steve Kirby rather than Kirtley. He has more pace and aggression, but can be expensive.
If we go for 4 bowlers (Flintoff, Giles + 2), I'd go for Anderson and Johnson. We're in deep shit if anyone breaks down injured though. In this scenario, the extra batsman could be just about anyone - Strauss, Key, Solanki? I'd go for Solanki.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 4 August 2003 08:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not sure whether hussain should go. he is still a good batsman and I think he will score runs. And he is still mentally up to it (OK so it was a bonkers decision to quit earlier in the week but now that the pressure is off).

Stewart should go but since he is leaving at the end of the summer i doubt the selectors will just cut him off (that is v unfortunate and reflects badly on selection policy but there you go).

Despite this heavy loss I do feel with the bowlers we have (just need the experience), and then if Thorpe comes back with his runs and what with flintoff finally delivering then we have a chance of the ashes but that is another story.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 4 August 2003 08:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't see Stewart being dropped, not with just three matches to go.

I think England will win the series 2-1.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 4 August 2003 09:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I am impressed by your collective optimism, but I'll be surprised if England do any better than a 2-1 loss, especially with Pollock and Kallis back.

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 4 August 2003 09:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Isn't pollock going to miss one test?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 4 August 2003 09:38 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, he is for birthing a baby.

For once, I'd like to see England play as a team. Great individual performances and partnerships are all very well, but teamwork at the crease and in the field is something England seem to be lacking (and playing County Cricket).

― Ed (dali), Monday, 4 August 2003 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

the first day of the third test:

england batting first. After a shaky start (29-2 at one point) nasser and butcher make a 189 partnership. Butcher got his hundered but went shortly after. But nasser has just got his.

A great day so far. wish i was at home watching this.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 14 August 2003 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

281-3. 8 overs to go. Pollock is bowling with the new ball. hopefully there won't be another wicket.

Smith is doing well. he's on 30.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 14 August 2003 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, a very good day's play.

And it's all down to the fact that I bought a new portable radio and listened to test match special all afternoon.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:06 (twenty-two years ago)

yay for jel!

so yes, we thrashed them and hopefully we can put 500 on and then we can really test that batting line up.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 14 August 2003 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

2nd day, afternoon session.

eng 435-8: stewart doing well (71 not out). this after the early morning wicket flurry. we should get 450 something.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 15 August 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

stewart just out for 72. eng 440-9.

An imporved batting performance. we will soon see if the bowling has improved too.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 15 August 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm crossing my fingers it has, for reasons of family pride.

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 15 August 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

explain?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 15 August 2003 13:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Because Mark is related to the cricket ball they're a usin'.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 15 August 2003 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

J4m35 K1rt13y is Mr C's cousin, Julio.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 15 August 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

ohhhhh.

anyway, the guardian website has fucked up but its 22-0 off 5 overs, I think.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Kirtley's 3-0-8-0(1nb) which is OK so far, especially when you compare it to Anderson's 3-1-16-0(1w)

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Smith has gone, SA 69/2. I think we might be in for a very interesting day tomorrow.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 15 August 2003 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Kallis was lucky to survive.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 15 August 2003 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Kitley's 10-3-21-0 was pretty good, I thought. His last few overs were excellent, and he had a stone cold LBW turned down. I'm encouraged, but worry that he'll always be a consistent workhorse rather than an exciting wicket-taker (except in county cricket). And therefore this'll be his last match for England. We'll see tomorrow.

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 15 August 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

that Smith dismissal was fucking bizarre but a fucking beautiful spell from Flintoff. we have a wonderful all-rounder.

84-2 at the end of the second day and its looking good for tomorrow I'd say.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 15 August 2003 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Kirtley should do well tomorrow, given his action and the variable bounce he should prove very difficult to play (particularly if he's partenered with Flintoff keeping it tight at the other end).

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 15 August 2003 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Seems you're OTM, Matt. It's been a good morning so far :)

― Mark C (Mark C), Saturday, 16 August 2003 09:28 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah. I think flintoff and harmison were the best bowlers and they applied the majority of the pressure but kirtley and anderson got the wickets (they bowled well too, of course).

I don't mind if SA avoid the follow on as I don't want eng to bat last on that surface.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 16 August 2003 11:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Matt, Matt, Matt. Flintoff and Kirtley are to similar to bowl in tandem.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Saturday, 16 August 2003 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

No wickets during the afternoon but now just one to go. Pollock has made a 50 and the lead is less than 100 behind. crap!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 16 August 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm just amazed that we have 9 wickets. Harmison is injured. I hope Hoggard is fit again soon.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 16 August 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Harmison did really well tho'. Some hostile spells despite being a bit erratic at times.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 16 August 2003 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

eng 83 runs ahead. I think after the early flurry of wickets this morning eng did step off the gas after Kallis went, almost as if they were waiting for wickets instead of trying to bowl them out by applying some pressure so that's disappointing but its an OK lead.

good match.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 16 August 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

England need to make 275ish

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 16 August 2003 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

THAT WASN'T OUT!

Marcus you was robbed

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Saturday, 16 August 2003 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

dramatic end to the match. trescothick out first ball but it didn't even hit glove or anything. completely fucked up!!! and it was the only over they had to get through till the end of the day.

x-post: I think if they make south africa have to make 250-300 to win they won't make it (at least that's what i'd like to think but with no experienced bowler there any such judgeemnts are difficult)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 16 August 2003 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

heh. another x-post.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 16 August 2003 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

You can't x-post yourself, Julio! That would be madness!

― Mark C (Mark C), Saturday, 16 August 2003 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

julio is using two computers at once!! no fair!!

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 16 August 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Julio's science has gone mad!

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 16 August 2003 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

its crazy it is.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 16 August 2003 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I kinda laughed when Pollock bowled Trescothick for a Golden Duck. Because Pollock reminds of RJG in some curious way, anything he does makes me laugh. But especially when getting rid of Tescos with only one over left to play and with the first ball. Meep.

― David. (Cozen), Saturday, 16 August 2003 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

That was a Golden Duck, right?

― David. (Cozen), Saturday, 16 August 2003 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

a duck is a duck. unless its a toy duck, which is a representation of a duck.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 16 August 2003 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

It was a golden duck David. First ball = golden duck. Hmm, so England didn't wrap S. Africa up as quickly as I'd hoped but being a frontline bowler down I thought it was a pretty good effort. If they can get a lead of 300+ by tea it will be the only chance of a result. The draw's still the favourite though. I can't see South Africa folding in fewer than four sessions.

― Matt (Matt), Saturday, 16 August 2003 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I can see south africa winning now.

I think butcher and Vaughan got v fine deliveries and there was little they could do but Ed Smith's footwork was non-existent and stewart played an appaling shot. sad really.

See i think if eng can get 250 ahead on this pitch then who knows. the prob is SA have good batting up to no9.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 17 August 2003 10:38 (twenty-two years ago)

all up to flintoff and nasser now.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 17 August 2003 11:30 (twenty-two years ago)

oh dear.

oh well, lets just hope for a few dodgy lbw's. England can win, but SA look more likely.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 17 August 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I'm gonna cry.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 17 August 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

keep the faith, Julio, at least until tea!

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 17 August 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

FUCK FUCK FUCK.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Sunday, 17 August 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I blame Hstencil

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Sunday, 17 August 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

harminson better fucking bowl.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 17 August 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

south africa started well but a couple of quick wickets. smith is among 'em.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 17 August 2003 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

dodgy LB's! (well one of them was) What did I tell ya?

Harmison is bowling

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 17 August 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Harmison is bowling okay. He's better when he's slower!

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 17 August 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

63-5, not bad!

If England can win, they'll get the series at Headingly. SA will struggle without Pollock.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 17 August 2003 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

You're right Jel. Perhaps we should strategically arrange some banana skins outside the dressing room door at the next test.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Sunday, 17 August 2003 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, pity we had to go off for bad lighting. would have liked to have seen Kirtley bowl another 3-4 overs.

this is very tight.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 17 August 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Good god this is all that's great about Test cricket, it could go either

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 18 August 2003 02:32 (twenty-two years ago)

...way if oly SA didn't bat so far down, you'd fancy England to win but how many times have late order fightbacks been our undoing? Oh for a Pollock.....if the seamers can only bowl a tight line it's there.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 18 August 2003 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Prediction : SA 152 all out. England to win. PLEEEEASE!!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 18 August 2003 08:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm hoping the pitch would've deteriorated further.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 18 August 2003 08:42 (twenty-two years ago)

McKenzie gone!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 18 August 2003 09:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Pollock Gone!!! Second BALL!! May I just say HA! HA! FUCK OFF POLLOCK. Thanks.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 18 August 2003 09:21 (twenty-two years ago)

and another one gone!!!!!!

― chris (chris), Monday, 18 August 2003 09:24 (twenty-two years ago)

It's HALL - goodbye you ugly bastard!!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 18 August 2003 09:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Got to keep Boucher off strike and attack Adams and Ntini. Shouldn't be long now.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 18 August 2003 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

It's going wrong - must get another wicket fast!!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm so nervous...

Come on get, Ntini then we can all relax (and jump around)

Kirtley for Gough looks like a great decision now.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Is it all going a bit Pete Tong?

― David. (Cozen), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:29 (twenty-two years ago)

My god.....

Almost C+B from Harmison, but what about his leg?

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:29 (twenty-two years ago)

No we only need one more wicket.

It should be a formality.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:30 (twenty-two years ago)

GET THE FUCK IN

Bouchers gone

England win

Kirtleys a GOD.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:31 (twenty-two years ago)

It's all over! Come on.

― Alex K (Alex K), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:31 (twenty-two years ago)

well done chaps! esp kirkley.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Shame.

*ducks*

― David. (Cozen), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Good fucking lads.

― Alex K (Alex K), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:33 (twenty-two years ago)

*basks in reflected family glory*

― Mark C (Mark C), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:33 (twenty-two years ago)

HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

see ya

― jel, Monday, 18 August 2003 10:34 (twenty-two years ago)

1-1 who wins the series now then?

― David. (Cozen), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:35 (twenty-two years ago)

What a great game

Butchers/Hussains batting.
McKenzies innings.
Pollocks bowling, is he the best seamer in the world?
Bouchers grit.
Kirtleys bowling, great debut.

All in all great test match cricket, a joy from start to finish.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:38 (twenty-two years ago)

YEEEESSS!!!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 18 August 2003 10:41 (twenty-two years ago)

GET IN! God I enjoyed that. No Pollock at Headingley either.....

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 18 August 2003 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

exactly! this is looking good.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 18 August 2003 12:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Good move calling up Bicknell I think, I'd put him in the side instead of Ashley Giles, who didn't have a great game, he hardly bowled at all. Total short term move, but it'd give England one experienced bowler. Though Kabir Ali did get 8 wickets in the first innings at Scarborough the other week (no idea how similar the pitch at SB is compared to Headingly)

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 18 August 2003 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

headingley first day: SA won the toss and chose to bat. last time I looked 78-4.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 21 August 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

150/7 - a recovery of sorts, but should still get them out for less than 200. Second consecutive golden duck for the tosser Hall is wonderful.

We have a long tail though.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 21 August 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, I don't know what's the point of five fast bowlers but hopefully I can get an ans to this if i watch the highlights.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 21 August 2003 14:07 (twenty-two years ago)

The pitch at Headingly normally offers a fair bit of help to pace bowlers - sideways movement and variable bounce, Julio. Although - if we had a decent spinner I bet we would play him. You wouldn't see Warne, Murali, Harbajan, or MacGill dropped at Headingly for example. I note that SA have dropped Adams too.

173/7 now. We need another wicket.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 21 August 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

we haven't got one. 249-7.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

South Africa had a total hang over from the last test, nowt wrong with the pitch. And England bowled well from the off.

239-7...definetely could do with a wicket and keeping it a bit tighter.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Bloody hell, what's going on? This Zondeki geezer's got a first class average of 9.5, and he's taken 42 off our attack so far.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Honours even, I guess. Can't tell how this match will go until England bat.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Vaughan is out. There's a suprise. Honestly, our openers have gone to shit.

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 22 August 2003 11:57 (twenty-two years ago)

That was bad luck, not "going to shit".

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Friday, 22 August 2003 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but for how many innings in a row, Lynskey?

I noticed on the cricinfo site that corrupt Aussie lardarse Shane Warnes is "voluntarily not training" until his 12 month ban is up. Lazy cunt. Sweepstake on how may pounds he's put on come the end of it?

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 22 August 2003 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I think there will be a period where vaughan won't get much but he is a strong batsman and i think once he gets used to the captaincy he will start piling it on again (it took him a bit of time before he got going as a test player).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 22 August 2003 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

110-1. good job so far.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 22 August 2003 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, my criticism seems churlish.

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 22 August 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Why the Jesus-fucking-piss did we just take the light?

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Friday, 22 August 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Right. In the words of Mr L. Gallagher "What's all that about?

― Alex K (Alex K), Friday, 22 August 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

197-3. Hopefully, England won't have to come back this evening. Then push on to 400 tomorrow, though Smith and Hussain will have to bat very well. SA down to 3 or 4 bowlers.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 22 August 2003 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I think england have to aim for about 420ish to be confident. Looking down the card there's no reason they shouldn't if Smith and Hussain can put a stand of any size together. Flintoff has to start contributing more meaningful runs. The tail looks a bit more solid with Bicknell and Kabir Ali down there. A first innings lead of 50 plus puts pressure on the SA openers, and once inroads have been made you never know (bearing in mind that Kirsten was dropped twice).

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 22 August 2003 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed smith out first ball => Graham thorpe we need you!

Alec stewart started well but played a suicidal shot and andrew flintoff nearly got out to one but he's still there with Hussain who has been really solid throughout the morning.

260-5 as I type this.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 23 August 2003 10:39 (twenty-two years ago)

303-8

Very close!

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 23 August 2003 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Flintoff should bat at 6 - discuss.

Also Vaughan should drop to 3 and let Butcher open - discuss.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Saturday, 23 August 2003 12:21 (twenty-two years ago)

307 all out. Should have been 70-80 runs better. Butcher and Trescothick shouldn't have gone off for bad light yesterday. Really needed someone to get a hundred.

Have to bowl very well now.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 23 August 2003 12:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Flintoff will bat at 6 in about 1 and a half tests time.

Butcher should stay at number 3, as Vaughan will get his form back. And a right/left hand partnership is good for upsetting the bowlers rythmn.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 23 August 2003 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

FUCK HORSE RACING.

If a news story crops up sometime soon about some sort of serial horse killer, it's me.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Saturday, 23 August 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

well as long as the serial horse killa stories don't disrupt the cricket then that's fine.

SA are faves right now. they have made a reasonable start despite losing two early wickets and if they are 250+ ahead then i think they'll win.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 23 August 2003 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

evening sesh has just started and eng not looking good. need wickets.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 23 August 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Bring on Kirtley!!

― Mark C (Mark C), Saturday, 23 August 2003 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

gary kirsten just had one nick the gloves (the appeal wasn't strong, almost non-existent) and not out.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 23 August 2003 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm, not looking good. I think England will have to try and bat out 3 or 4 sessions to save the game, unless they get 2 or 3 wickets this evening :(

Kirsten was out, but no one ever seems to be given out gloving it down the leg side.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 23 August 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

well the sound it made wasn't sharp enough.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 23 August 2003 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

what a motherfucking disaster!

andrew hall made a fantastic innings and I am actually sorry he didn't get his hundred (the match is already lost).

its tea time: trescothick fucked off and now hopefully vaughan can make a double hundred. we need an extra 362 but will we survived the end of the day?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 24 August 2003 13:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Barely.

Oh well, good game and all that, phwoar James Anderson etc.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Sunday, 24 August 2003 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

fuck ed smith! bring graham thrope back right fucking now!

The bowling this morning was so damn undisciplined but we lost it when we couldn't get a lead really.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 24 August 2003 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

The bowling this morning was the worst I've ever seen. Ed Smith's dismissal was exceedingly slack, but this match was lost in the first England innings, partly by Butcher and Trescothick's mystifying decision to take the light, but more certainly by Stewart's abominable shot selection and the collective inability of the tail to play anything more demanding than snap. This match has demonstrated the difference between the two sides wonderfully, South Africa want it far more than England. Despite their much vaunted top order failing twice (Kirsten excepted) they've made 350+ twice on a seamer's paradise. This game was ridiculous, an embarrassing shambles (now watch Flintoff and Butcher pull off a miracle tomorrow, all the tail make maiden test fifties and I have to eat my words).

― Matt (Matt), Sunday, 24 August 2003 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, England will win today.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 25 August 2003 08:20 (twenty-two years ago)

:....((((

matt- I think the diff between the two sides is the inexperienced eng bowling attack actually. i don't think SA wanted it more.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 25 August 2003 09:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I disagree. I simply thought SA displayed more guts out there, more durability and more willingness to get stuck in. Whenever England were on top (the early bowling, Butcher and Tresco's stand) you got the feeling it wasn't going to last, whenever the South African's were you were left wondering what England could do. Yes the pace attack was inexperienced but you'd expect Test bowlers to be able to dig in and hold a line, first Test or fortieth. The reason I'm so annoyed is that this match was England's Big Chance with Pollock out, in the end it didn't matter, Kallis simply stepped up and said "right, I'll do the job then", and did.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 25 August 2003 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Gutless crap. Apart from Flintoff, Butch and Hussain they should be fucking ashamed of their display, particularly Sunday morning when the bowling was clueless. All they had to do was stick to length and line. Vaughan's field placings were shocking - he should have had a sweeper on each boundary to turn fours into ones and twos. Keep the runs down and wait for the unplayable delivery - all the time they're not scoring the pressure is building and that's when you get false shots. Hall's 99 was 99 fucking easy runs - GIFTED by our powderpuff attack.

I agree with Matt that you would expect test bowlers to bowl to a field and hold a line even in their first test, but clearly they don't know how to d it because in county cricket the standard s so bad that you don't need to. Where do you start? Bicknell - if your stock ball is 74 mph you have to drop it on a sixpence. Any room to hit and you'll be murdered. Anderson - will be good in the future, but desperately needs help with his action to the ball in the right place 6 balls an over. Kirtley - has at least taken SA top-order wickets, but I really dread to see what'll happen if he plays on a flat track at the Oval. Could be REALLY taken apart.

Vaughan really doesn't seem to have a grip on the field - where's the communication, where's the supoort for his bowlers, where are the unexpected tactical changes? No sparkle, no snap - he jus looks 'pained' a la John Le Mesurier in Dad's Army. Not fucking good enough.

The batting - 400 was never really on, but come on 200 and a few? Again - not good enough - too many loose shots, although Nasser got a ubious one and Flintoff got a corker this morning. Why didn't we try and wrongfoot the opposition - try Fintoff at 3 or 4 for example. Last night the main thing was to get to stumps one or two down, not 5 and we blew it totally.

For the Oval - Giles will return, alhough fat lot of good that'll do. Bicknell surely will be dropped. If only Hoggard was fit he could come in for Anderson and I'd bring in Johnson or Harmison for Kabir. Kirtley should stay, but MUST bowl better when the pressure is on. I'd drop Stewart for either Chris Read or Geraint Jones (Kent) and move Flintoff up to 6. Ed Smith will stay, but looked way out of his depth - I'd drop him for Thorpe.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 25 August 2003 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

''Vaughan's field placings were shocking - he should have had a sweeper on each boundary to turn fours into ones and twos. Keep the runs down and wait for the unplayable delivery - all the time they're not scoring the pressure is building and that's when you get false shots. Hall's 99 was 99 fucking easy runs - GIFTED by our powderpuff attack''

Hall is a good player everyone. I'm sorry to say it but its not like it was 99 easy runs. I don't think Vaughan improving field placings would matter. If its a bad ball it will get hit for four at this level.

One thing is wanting more. but its another to translate that into match winning performances.

And Bicknell did really well in the first innings.

''Yes the pace attack was inexperienced but you'd expect Test bowlers to be able to dig in and hold a line, first Test or fortieth.''

I don't really. added to the fact that the yound bowlers can't turn to any experienced bowlers for advice bcz they aren't there.

We are in the process of rebuilding the bowling attack now that gough and caddick have gone. You just can't blame county cricket: i know its shit but we have climbed up the rankings.

The match was lost the moment that south africa was 300 ahead. There was no way this side (or most sides) could have scored that on a pitch that gave assistance to the bowlers plus you have fourth innings psycology coming in so what's the diff if you get bowled out for 200 or 300? a loss is a loss.

I'd like to see stewart dropped but he won't be. graham thorpe must get back. hopefully harminson will be fit.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 25 August 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Vaughan is just one of the lads, too much of a nice bloke to be a really good captain. There probably isn't anyone apart from Nasser who would have the guts to give them a good old fashioned shouting at. Vaughan has definetely got to be more inspired in the field.

The bowling problem is going to persist, it took Caddick ages to be any good at test level, and I can see this happening with Anderson and Kirtley. Anderson is taking wickets (23 this test season), but his body language is awful at times, and when he has a bad spell, they are awful. Perhaps, the two tests against Zimbabwe should have come after the South Africa series?

Hoggard has been badly missed, I would have reckoned he'd have got 15 or so wickets by now. Harmison needs to be more accurate and aggresive, if he's not opening the bowling this time next year, then I doubt if he'll be in the team.

Are there any good spin bowlers in the country? And I don't care if they can bat! (but the selectors do)

Thorpe, yeah, he'll come back, but how long before he hurts his back, or needs a rest again? But there's no easy solution for the vacant batting spot.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 25 August 2003 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)

b-but Vaughan has just started and It took a while for Nasser to get the results out of his team too. Lets wait a while to see whether vaughan will be a success.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 25 August 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

So should county cricket be overhauled? Have more of a competitive regional championship?? Like the Sheffield Shield or something. I doubt if this could happen given the lack of money and interest in county cricket, there is some serious investment needed at grass roots.

I liked Flintoff's attitude in this test, he hardly acknowledged his second fifty, coz there was really nothing for the team to be proud of.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 25 August 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, of course I want Vaughan to be a success! I just think he needs some help out there.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 25 August 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Let us not forget how slim we were on bowlers. No Caddick, Harmison, Hoggard, Jones. Imagine an England footie team without Owen, Rooney, Vassell or Beattie to chose from.

For me its the lack of form in the entire top order, save for Butcher the Butcher, that has let us down.

And lets not cry for a massive overhaul of County on the strength of one test.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Monday, 25 August 2003 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

It's funny how the pundits never mention how much England miss Caddick and Hoggard.

We'll probably win at the Oval.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 25 August 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

You think? I'm not sure how. Swap Smith for Thorpe, and if Hussain's injured bring in Ramprakash. As for the tail, it's hard to see what might happen. Bicknell? Kirtley (I hope against hope, but it's not his surface)? Anderson'll probably be the most likely to, but also the most likely to fuck it up. He's so not ready to be England's leading bowler.

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 11:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Ramprakash?!?!

no. never again. same applies to crawley and hick.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 11:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Ramprakash is likely to get picked as the most in-form batsman in the country (and it's his homeground).

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Noooo! Not Ramprakash again. If we're to change the batting we want either someone new or someone with a proven track record in tests (ie Thorpe).

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Bring back Graham Gooch!

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Sod that, the campaign to raise WGG from the grave starts here!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Zombie Cricketers!

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

B-but his test average was pretty poor! Raise the zombie of Herbert Sutcliffe! And whilst we're at it let's have Syd Barnes and George Lohmann opening the bowling.
Obviously kneejerk reaction to this defeat are a bad thing (he types having had a day to calm down) but that doesn't disguise some fairly serious problems with this side. Apart from Hussain and possibly Vaughn there's no-one I can see playing that anchor role that Kirsten does so brilliantly for SA, and likewise there's no-one tying down one end a la Pollock. This England side containing a peak form Fraser and Atherton would be a fairly formidable proposition.
For sentimental reasns Stewart can't be dropped. The Oval isn't a result pitch. The series is gone and after all the service he's given it's only fair to let him play his last Test in front of his home crowd. Not to do this would detract from a large part of what I love about cricket. Even though Butcher's playing brilliantly he's one of the players I'm most annoyed with, every time you think he's set and on for a big score his concentration wanders and that's it (plus his place in the slips must surely be under threat). Anderson should be persisted with because when he finally gets it right he will already have a few chastening batterings behind him which can only improve him as a bowler, expect to see him start mixing his deliveries a bit as he gets older.
It's a shame Harmison didn't make the last Test. Towards the end of the Trent Bridge one he was bowling like Curtly Ambrose, fast, accurate and menacing. The jury's still out with me on Ed Smith, but I think Kirtley's worth his place. Trescothick had better start looking over his shoulder soon (and I say this as a massive Trescothick fan and Somerset supporter - along which line let me also say that Richard Johnson is also worth a place), an opening batsman should be able to build an innings. Attractive twenties and thirties with the occasional fifty thrown in isn't good enough. He doens't seem the same player who merrily took Pakistan and Sri Lanka apart two winters ago, and I fear that any bowler who can hold a decent off-stump line will find him out.

― Matt (Matt), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 01:00 (twenty-two years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38622000/jpg/_38622273_small_getty150.jpg

you know hes the man

― kiwi, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I would imagine that they'll play Mr. Punch (Robert Key) if Hussain is unfit, although it looks dodgy having Key and Ed Smith. Personally I would play Thorpe and Ramprakash - I honestly believe that Ramps could still have 3 or 4 good years at test level. He's only 31 after all. It depends on whether he can relax enough to play his own game - there's no doubt that he has the technique and shots, but in the past has appeared far too nervous.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 09:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd say get robert Key and graham thorpe back. the problem with ramprakash: What makes a test batsmen isn't just technique but its to do with temperament. Making scores when it counts is what this is abt and I'm frankly disgusted by his failures at this level. he is a complete waste of time.

I'm also worried abt trescothick. I like him and he does have good temperament and can play very well against spin but he's got to sort himself out for the australians.

The media are really great with kneejerk reactions: apparently there was a 'crisis' with english cricket after the Lord's defeat.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 10:42 (twenty-two years ago)

2nd day, 5th and final test:

Fuck awful first day with Gibbs playing with england's attack but this morning it was 70-5 but now south africa are making hard work again. the last wicket partnership is worth 46.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:06 (twenty-two years ago)

south africa all out for 484 but its a good wicket to bat on.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Eat my bat!

― Sam (chirombo), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I love tail-end slogging.

― Sam (chirombo), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

England needs bowling attack that can put on 100 for their wickets, oh for the day. Also why do we have to wait for the new ball (the second one) to make any inroads.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

er, we got two quick wickets with the old one (one last night, one on the first over of the morning).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

oh never mind

but they have been coming a just before and just after the change of ball a lot recently.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:01 (twenty-two years ago)

watched this at lunch time, terrific bit of play from Giles to get Kallis out.

England have just lost a wicket

― Fuzzy (Fuzzy), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Vaughan out - shit!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry ed actually you might be right.

Vaughan was dominating. I was setting myself up here for a nice afternoon of watching vaughan destroying SA and then Pollock get his 300th wicket and now i'm fucking pissed off. Hussain get back to the captaincy please I want the old Vaughan back!!!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

the captaincy of england is a fucking poisoned chalice. we should sacrifice someone other than the opening batsman. Why is the captain always an opening batsman?

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I was going to say that Hussain isn't an opener, but he did use to open for Essex IIRC. Actually, thinking about it, 5 out of the first 6 batsmen in the last side were openers (Trescothick, Vaughan, Butcher, Hussain, Stewart).

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

hussain was a middle order batsman and though he had a tough time batting he is not doing as badly as vaughan (besides, hussain at his best makes a 100, vaughan will make 150+).

eng are piling the boundaries and i'll take a couple of hours of this. hope thorpe does well too.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I worry about a sloppy edge though.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Can only enjoy the game on my desktop scoreboard and the internet keeps fucking up because these virus's are still lingering about. I need a wireless.

― Fuzzy (Fuzzy), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

You can listen to the TMS commentary online. Just follow the link on http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/sportsextra/index.shtml

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, but isnt that still via the internet. our firewall at work has been running dodgy all week.

england lost another wicket

― Fuzzy (Fuzzy), Friday, 5 September 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I was at the game yesterday, which was a little bit depressing (or at least it would have been if I hadn't been with some friends I hadn't seen for a while whilst merrily getting sunstroke/pissed). Near close of play we were considering 600 as a final total, so this final score is pretty bloody good (indeed if you had offered it to me knowing it was the Oval before the game it would have sounded about right).

Did anyone watching the TV coverage see the new development in crowd participation. The litter Mexican wave. Very strange, I felt sorry for the cleaning staff.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 5 September 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I felt really shitty when I saw that. and the aftermath of litter blowing all over the oval.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I might go on Monday if it's not raining, but I think it will be.

Hoggard will be back soon, I like Hoggard. Took 7 wickets the other day.

Anyway, it's going to be a draw.

Bangladesh might win their first test match tomorrow, that'd be great! A Dust-storm stopped play.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 5 September 2003 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Come on Bangladesh! (Actually Bashar and Rafique look quite useful, what are the odds on every test-playing nation merrily upping their averages against Bangladesh, and by the time England get round to playing them they've become world-beaters?)

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 5 September 2003 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah I'll try and go on monday too if the weather is OK and it looks like I'll get two sessions of cricket.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 6 September 2003 09:01 (twenty-two years ago)

The Mexican Wave + Litter was present when I went to watch England v Australia at Old Trafford in 1990.

So, viva Thorpe, I hope we see Tresco / Vaughan / Butcher / Hussain / Thorpe as the order on the winter tour. Something about it just seems so damn right.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Saturday, 6 September 2003 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

with Flintoff at six!!!

Was that fucking brilliant or was that fucking brilliant? Isn't it great to have Thorpe, a really classy player (rather than losers like ed smith) back.

Shame he lost his concentration but never mind. Hopefully ed smith will do something but I'm not counting on it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 6 September 2003 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

ed smith is out surprise surprise.

trescothick is still there on 150.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 6 September 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Poor old Ed Smith, they showed him picking his nose earlier.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 6 September 2003 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

haha I missed that.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 6 September 2003 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, you could hear Atherton saying "get in there Ed" in the background.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 6 September 2003 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Reeves and Benaud have started talking about trousers!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Saturday, 6 September 2003 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

heh, trescothick is 'in the zone' ppl!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 6 September 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

200 for him.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 6 September 2003 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Winter warmer:
If Flintoff is to bat at 6 post-Stewart, how about the newly fit Collingwood at 7 before Read/Foster/whoever at 8 ?

― darren (darren), Sunday, 7 September 2003 10:54 (twenty-two years ago)

wasn't Flintoff's innings marvellous? you're not allowed to say no.

yeah I sort've agree there. I hope giles will win the match for us but I somehow doubt it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 7 September 2003 10:57 (twenty-two years ago)

yeh, first wicket gone for SA.

― Fuzzy (Fuzzy), Sunday, 7 September 2003 11:56 (twenty-two years ago)

three more after and still 19 runs behind. we have a chance.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 7 September 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

If anyone fancies going tomorrow, weather permitting, I;m well up for it.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 7 September 2003 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

In for a tenner.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 7 September 2003 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah I was thinking abt it but I'm not too sure abt the weather.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 7 September 2003 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

showers forecast, but it might hold long enough. Possibly good bowling weather.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 7 September 2003 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

No takers?

― Ed (dali), Monday, 8 September 2003 07:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I was thinking abt it but I just remembered I have to do something (work related) at 11 and can't get out of it.

if the weather holds up I'd say eng would win.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 07:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Regardless of result (except we're going to win - ha!) this may just be the best test match ever!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 8 September 2003 08:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Feeling very fluey is keeping me in. We just got a wicket so possibly I couldn't even get down there before we win.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 8 September 2003 09:01 (twenty-two years ago)

and another one

― Ed (dali), Monday, 8 September 2003 09:01 (twenty-two years ago)

How nice that Hall went first ball. Not that I think he's a total c*nt or anything. Oh no.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 8 September 2003 09:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Bye Bye Pollock.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 8 September 2003 09:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Bye Bye SA

― Fuzzy (Fuzzy), Monday, 8 September 2003 09:43 (twenty-two years ago)

It was fun to see G. Smith's 'inspirational fine young captain' persona slip horribly during Flintoff's innings. This broad-shouldered, honourable paragon of Afrikaaner manhood was reduced to sledging Freddie like a ranting fishwife several times. Tee-hee.

And what about Boucher - great to see that thoroughly nasty piece of work keeping wicket like he'd never worn a pair of gloves in his life before. I'm surprised they didn't use a backstop.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 8 September 2003 10:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I wish I was there for the end - if they don't put Stewie in to do the final tonk it will be a travesty As I said here.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 8 September 2003 10:38 (twenty-two years ago)

TMS has been tracking the rain sweeping across the south west. it had reached Hampshire just before lunch. Ever so slightly worried about it.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:08 (twenty-two years ago)

63 runs left.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Vaughan gone for 13, the curse of being captain continues.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed - you've worried me. We must try and thrash the remainder quickly.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:29 (twenty-two years ago)

butcher has smacked the first one for four and it brings the 50 up.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:31 (twenty-two years ago)

15 off the last over. Tesco's smacking Ntini all over the shop.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:46 (twenty-two years ago)

yup. I really enjoyed that. looks like he will get his 50 here.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

50 for tresco!!!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Why didn't Smith use Hall? He was by far the best bowler yesterday when Flintoff was in full flight.

Nearly there. What's the weather like?

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Crikey ! my desktop scoreboard can't keep up with this thrashing !!

― Fuzzy (Fuzzy), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:56 (twenty-two years ago)

getting cloudier but no worries yet

― Ed (dali), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:56 (twenty-two years ago)

a bit gloomy but its fine.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:57 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:57 (twenty-two years ago)

14 left to get.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I love ed smith's face and body language.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:04 (twenty-two years ago)

4 to win.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:04 (twenty-two years ago)

won

― Ed (dali), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:05 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry graham smith.

we've done it!!!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Hurrah, but now the rest of my day will be boring without this

― Fuzzy (Fuzzy), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Hurrah! Nice one Tesco!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Not a bad summer, all in all. Maybe Nasser should have stepped down before it started. But a series win, a one day series win, and a series draw isn't bad. Must try harder though.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Nasser should have def stepped either at the beginning or the end of the series.

But the positives are that Thorpe is back and flintoff has become a test cricketer and the bowling side are on their way up.

Only a world class spinner left now.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

but anyway: 2-2 was great.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I've only just noticed this morning that Barry Richards is on both Channel 4 and TMS.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought 2-2 was pretty fair overall. Good competition for tour places for winter also. Great to see Trescothick do well as I am horribly biased in favour of good Somerset lads. Keiths Parsons and Dutch for England!

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Where do you think they all go after twenty tough minutes of commentary? (Well after getting a pint). Doesn't Richie do both too - he always usta.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I was there! Great day!! Loved the way South Africa threw their wickets away.

Booed the members when they didn't join in the Mexican wave.

Bought Mark Butcher's song, and an England floopy hat.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 8 September 2003 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

''mark butcher's song''?!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

he released a tribute song for the Ben Hollioake Fund. Four track single, with four versions of the same song! Mark Buthcher rules.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 8 September 2003 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

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