TS: MLB NL MVP - Albert Pujols v. Barry Bonds

I can see strong arguments for either Pujols or Bonds, depending on what you want for criteria, but I'd say the same for A-Rod.

I think Shea Hillenbrand was actually my early pick last year, but things didn't go the way I expected for him (go figure). I'm really not at all sure who I'd pick for AL this year. Manny or Edgar Martinez, I guess.

Sosa burned his coupons, as far as I'm concerned.

Kent = .334, .424 OB%, .596 SLG, 1.021 OBS, 33 HR, 114 R, 125 RBI
Bonds = .306, .440 OB%, .688 SLG, 1.120 OBS, 49 HR, 129 R, 106 RBI

I can't pull RARP but I'm sure you get the picture...

Kent gets the edge on the "meaningless" stats (BA, RBI) and takes the award. BS.

do not say francisco cabrera

See, I really think that's a big part of it right there, and it's why I sort of grudgingly shrug when Schilling defends pitching at the hands. Is it a coincidence that Clemens seems to do it the most blatantly, and he's in the AL?

there's a great pic series in a may 92 SI (bonds cover) of jay bell hitting the ball at kirk gibson's (the runner on 1st, where bream is playing defense) helmet and mad-cap hilarity ensues.

Eckersley won in 1990.

Do you pronounce this like "Pooge"?

Bonds has 77 RBI/314 AB = .245 RBI per AB
Pujols has 105 RBI/446 AB = .235 RBI per AB

Bonds is a more effective RBI producer but here is the real kicker:

Bonds has 111 BBs to Pujols' 50.

This is hard to quantify but work with me here: How much more often do you think that Pujols is given the opportunity to hit in RBIs than Bonds does? And even despite that, Bonds is still more effective... see where I'm going?

AB = at bats
RBI = runs batted in
WHIP = walks and hits per innings pitched (i'm particularly proud of that one ;)

I mean, if we are still taking MVP to mean the most important contributor to his team, then I think quantity matters more then per AB averages b/c those rest on hypotheticals.

thanks for that gygax, why don't they just call them walks then?

The only thing Pujols has going for him in this debate is playing time. The playing time argument may be a good one -- Pujols has like 70 more plate appearances than Bonds. If you add 70 PA of Marvin Benard production to Bonds' stats I'm not sure who would come out on top.

"Cue the sun."

Willis
H/9: 8.07
R/9: 3.19
BB/9: 3.03
K/9: 8.40
ERA: 3.10
WHIP: 1.23
BAA: .241

Webb
H/9: 7.02
R/9: 2.53
BB/9: 2.88
K/9: 8.42
ERA: 2.45
WHIP: 1.10
BAA: .213

The only things Willis has on Webb are more Wins, All Star Votes and Charm/Name Recognition/Celebrity.

Barry Bonds has a total of 65 at bats with runners in scoring position all year. He is hitting .354 with a .615 slugging percentage in those situations. He has also been walked a league-leading 57 times with RISP. Not coincidentally, Bonds is on pace to drive in "only" 106 runs this season.

In fact, Bonds has just 131 at bats with runners on base, scoring position or otherwise, the entire year. He is hitting .351 with a .679 slugging percentage in those situations. He also has 76 walks with men on base. His 131 ABs with runners on base rank 182nd among major league hitters. Yes, 182nd.

RISP:
Bonds = (122 PAs) .354 BA, .653 OBP, .615 SLG, 1.269 OPS
Pujols= (122 PAs) .417 BA, .488 OBP, .835 SLG, 1.323 OPS

BBs with RISP:
Bonds = 57
Pujols =19

sooooooo.... Pujols definitely sees more strikes than Bonds (who gets walked almost 50% of the time w/ RISP). Anyone got access to RARP?

1. Pujols, Albert STL .467
23. Bonds, Barry SF .286

Pujols also plays for the Cardnals, which probably won't hurt, especially if they pull ahead in their division. Considering how well Pujols is hitting, it really isn't helping them that much as they seem to find a way to lose games and are fair to middling team.

Willis also has a unusual/cool windup and is an African-American starting pitcher, which is becoming more rare.

I think any baseball writer that says a closer is overrated ought to take another look at the 86 World Series.

Don Baylor got hit by pitches more times than any other player ever and yet he never rushed the mound. Take yer base, quit yer gripping...someone will get your back down the line. If the umps would call a high strike, perhaps pitchers wouldn't be so testy about batters crowding on the plate.

bnw, "close and late" = "four wide to bonds"

and as much as i appreciate diversity in baseball, i don't think affirmative action is appropriate in all-star voting.

Isn't "close and late" a really sexy name for a stat category?

Having either a weird pitch, oddball windup or a strange set of habits on the mound will always get press coverage.

with earlnash's 2nd claim, al hrabosky may be my favorite pitcher ever (if not kent tekulve for trading in his amber tint sunglasses worn with the bucs for a rose pair upon arrival with the phillies).

(Tekulve gets bonus points for being 6-4 and weighing a buck o'five and having that dapper squared off Pirate hat.)

2. Do teams use an exaggerated shift on right handed hitters? Is there a Pujols-shift?

Weber also has some funky shooting/skiing glasses which with his bald head adds to the rockem sockem delivery. I never saw him pitch until the playoffs last year and couldn't belive how wacky he threw, it was even more stiff than Dibble, which is saying something.

Mark Grace pitched clean up in a blowout last year for the Diamondbacks and he was doing the "Mr. Angryface" thing with most of his pitches. Some rookie took him for yard and Grace had a funny quote about how embarressing your first major league home run would come off of "Mark Grace".

why?

the giants w/o Bonds = the detroit tigers

he won't, but even if, does he deserve it?

MVP

Even without going into hypotheticals Bond's EQR is still a higher percentage of the Giants' overall run production than Pujols', and Bonds has almost 100 more total bases than Pujols in 75 fewer plate appearances. Ironically for a power hitter he's creating a ton of run opportunities for an otherwise weak offensive team. Pujols' performance with RISP is awesome but could be made up for more easily by the rest of the Cardinals' lineup.

1 Albert Pujols, StL 318
2 Todd Helton, Col 305
3 Preston Wilson, Col 282
4 Gary Sheffield, Atl 277
5 Luis Gonzalez, Ari 256
6 Mike Lowell, Fla 255
7 Jim Thome, Phi 250
8 Richie Sexson, Mil 249
9 Barry Bonds, SF 246
  Andruw Jones, Atl 246

(doh, i had their pages open in two different browser windows and mixed 'em up).

i'm coming around to Leee's POV here: would Pujols be intentionally walked with runners on 1st/3rd with only one out? how come teams don't radically alter their defense when Pujols comes up? et cetera.

from 7/12-8/21 Pujols got a hit in each game he played; however, during that same time period Bonds put up better numbers:

Pujols .389/.462/.712 OPS 1.174, 8HR
Bonds .408/.591/.895 OPS 1.486, 10 HR

it's neato that Pujols got a hit in 30 consecutive games, but Bonds also reached base in all of his games played in the same time period. In fact, the last time Bonds didn't reach base was 6/25 and he's only played 4 games this year where he didn't reach base.

Even the last place team (Brewers or Reds- both only 12.5 behind STL) in Pujols' division wouldn't give Al 3 free-passes...

plus i never knew shef said that! key razay.