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It's about 8:30 on a weekday morning. I've just got on the train and I'm starting to think about the work day ahead and where my next cup of coffee's coming from. However, it soon dawns on me that I'm sitting on a Wessex Alphaline train and sooner or later, an attendant is going to walk through the carriage and hand out complimentary copies of the Daily Mail.

What is the correct way to respond when offered a free Daily Mail?

- Politely accept, stuff it down the side of the seat and act as if nothing happened?

- Politely refuse the kind offer?

- Refuse while communicating the extent to which i DO NOT wish to receive the Daily Hate Mail despite the offence this may cause to the attendant and my fellow passengers?

― robster (robster), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Take it a tear it into very tiny pieces to prevent anyone else from reading it.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Possibly whilst singing the Red Flag, Jerusalem, the Internazionale (in Russian), I'll sing you one oh (Red fly the banner's oh) or some other rousing lefty ditty.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:28 (twenty-two years ago)

y'know, most other newspapers are really bad, too.

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I have had to restrain myself from leaping across tube seats when an otherwise normal looking person pulls out the Daily Mail. I have been this close.

I respect the fact that people have differing political beliefs to me, but for God's sake right-wingers, read the Telegraph (good writing, very well designed) or the Sun (a sense of humour).

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:33 (twenty-two years ago)

i am always astounded by the amount of afo-caribbean people and women i see reading the daily mail on trains - i know the mail has targeted itself at women but can't they see it's not exactly looking out for their best interests. full disclosure - i actually worked there for a while when v skint but left on principle after a few weeks

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:33 (twenty-two years ago)

(In answer to Robster - I think I would like to say, very loudly: "No thank you. I have no desire to read about how not being very pregnant and sweetly married to a nice blonde boy from a neighbouring village will kill me. And by the way, they are only letting you give out free copies to add dubious bulk figures to their circulation. That is all.")

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:36 (twenty-two years ago)

and very starngely it's the only newspaper i've ever worked on where the majority its staff accurately reflected its editorial policy (i did meet a couple of lovely folks there, too, but in the main they weren't very nice) - you can imagine, it wasn't exactly a laugh riot...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:37 (twenty-two years ago)

to answer the question, it would very much depend on how i felt that particular morning - not being a morning person, i'd generally opt for "i'd rather not read that evil rag, thank you very much"

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:39 (twenty-two years ago)

The telegraph is highly commendable if only for being the ONLY national daily to recognise the NUJ.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Anna that was a bit harsh, they never insisted the boys from the neighbouring villages HAD to be blonde

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:43 (twenty-two years ago)

surely they would be blond

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I like today's headline - 'SPANISH DOCTOR STOLE CHILD'S ORGANS' which you can't help but interpret as 'BLOODY DAGOS - FIRST THEY TAKE OUR FISHING WATERS NOW THEY'RE AFTER OUR YOUNG!'

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Well it's better than the 'Express', why doesn't somebody pull the plug on that one, it actually embarrasses me to see it on sale, I feel like asking the newagent 'have you no dignity'

― dave q, Friday, 5 September 2003 08:45 (twenty-two years ago)

the majority its staff accurately reflected its editorial policy

This gives me fear. I had hoped it was just a huge expensive joke, made to fuck with the heads of estate agents (Property prices to slump! No, really!).

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:46 (twenty-two years ago)

stevem, you forgot the subheading

BLOODY DAGOS - FIRST THEY TAKE OUR FISHING WATERS NOW THEY'RE AFTER OUR YOUNG!

House prices unaffected!

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey Steve, you're quite fair haired. How about we get married and save ourselves from damnation?

(With apologies to my lovely dark haired boyfriend.)

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:48 (twenty-two years ago)

surely they would be blond

i think the word you are all looking for is "aryan"...

This gives me fear.

you have every right to be afraid - it is the most universally vile place i have ever worked (which may give you an idea of how poor i was at the time) and that's not even thinking about paul dacre: a truly monstrous individual...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Could be worse, could have been Max Hastings.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:51 (twenty-two years ago)

also i just love the way every single piece details the kind of house people live in eg:

"ms anna fielding, *age*, who lives in a four-bedroomed georgian terrace in noth london worth £300,000."

or:

"stelfox, who lives alone in a seedy, one-bedroomed, rented flat in london's squalid east end"...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:53 (twenty-two years ago)

hastings is a way, way nicer guy than dacre - trust me, i have experience of both

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Give a cold cruel laugh before stopping abruptly and falling silent. Suddenly blanch, but make it convincing, like you have an offending piece of chicken gristle caught in your throat. Hack once and stare about wildly, confused. Begin to convulse violently and clutch at your throat. Start to loudly and disgustingly hawk and splutter, bring up some flem and dribble slightly, all the while tensing the muscles in your face to give the impression you are having a seizure. Finally start scrabbling frantically at the window with your hands and fearfully looking back towards the attendant brandishing his dirty literature. This should send out a clear and concise message, though if the attendant remains unable to read the signs, you should claw open the window and attempt to leap from the carriage.

― Alex K (Alex K), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the word you are all looking for is "aryan"...

We read The Guardian and so tiptoe around these concepts.

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i hate the guardian almost as much as i hatre the daily mail - a vile place to work, too, but in a quite different way to the mail

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex K's suggestion is presumably how Daily Mail staff respond when you describe the concept of fun.

― robster (robster), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:01 (twenty-two years ago)

it's Simon Heffer I can't stand

dish the dirt on The Graniuad please Dave...

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Simon Heffer is so manifestly wrong about everything and such a sloppy thinker that he is more amusing than anything else.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:07 (twenty-two years ago)

''y'know, most other newspapers are really bad, too.''

that's pretty much it. I can't think of anything more wasteful than spending time reading papers.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw Simon Heffer doing What the Papers Say once. He looked quite uncomfortable and yet enormously arrogant at the same time.

― robster (robster), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:10 (twenty-two years ago)

wait a minute, there's someone called simon heffer?

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:12 (twenty-two years ago)

i loved it when private eye instituted "the simon heffer award for reasoned and rational argument"!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:12 (twenty-two years ago)

and stevenm, astute as you normally are, i think you are missing the mail's worst offenders who are... gasp... women! namely the singularly evil ann leslie and the thoroughly detestable melanie phillips

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:19 (twenty-two years ago)

melanie phillips

Spits, crosses self.

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:20 (twenty-two years ago)

i'd probably take a copy, personally. my constant guardian/observer/independent diet tends to mean that i get wound up by, say, monbiot or pilger, and forget exactly how evil the mail is. it's good to be reminded of these things sometimes.

(also on the subject of judging people by the paper they're reading: i tend to do this, too, but i think one should be slightly wary of this eg i have friends who deliberately read several different papers every day, and i think there's a lot to be said for this (if you have the time).)

― toby (tsg20), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:21 (twenty-two years ago)

lynda lee potter is, surprisingly enough, wonderful to work with, tho

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Gah! Melanie Phillips, the woman who until recently was usually described as 'liberal thinker Melanie Phillips' whenever she appeared on radio 4 moral panic programs. Having read her columns in the Observer with mounting rage throughout the late 80s and 90s, I can testify that this should have won some sort of award for the most ridiculous description ever.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:26 (twenty-two years ago)

working in newspapers i actually read about 5 a day, even if only glossing over them. so if i ever get accosted by a crazy lady on the tube while grimacing over the daily mail i expect you to get your girlfriend to leave me alone toby!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:26 (twenty-two years ago)

so would now be a good time to confess that i have actually done some work for one of the people mentioned on this thread? (looks down at feet glumly)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:28 (twenty-two years ago)

go on steve, who... i've worked with all of them!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:29 (twenty-two years ago)

heh, you'll find out in a month or so...

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:30 (twenty-two years ago)

If I was with other members of the London Bootleg Orchestra then I would accept the copy, whip out the biros and leave the Daily Mail and particularly its crossword 'modified' for a future train user.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

i nearly started a thread about the matter, it would've been along the lines of 'If in need and offered, would you work for/with someone who has views you find dubious, offensive or just don't agree with?' which could've been interesting judging by the responses here. I would just like to point out that while I may reluctantly work on something that benefits certain opinion-columnists of certain political positions, rest assured we're not talking about BNP members or whatever.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

If I was with other members of the London Bootleg Orchestra then I would accept the copy, whip out the biros and leave the Daily Mail and particularly its crossword 'modified' for a future train user.

4 across - member of misunderstood far-right political organisation popular in Germany around the time of World War II (4)

6) across - _ mothers, cause of all the world's problems (6)

9) down - Margaret _, greatest ever British Prime Minister (8)

12) down - Illegal _, unwanted visitors flooding the nation (10)

15) down - Workshy millions scrounging off the state (10)

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Workshy millions scrounging off the state? Ah, the answer is GOBL MI TOOL.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:43 (twenty-two years ago)

mel p = one of the guardian's many crimes against readers everywhere

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:44 (twenty-two years ago)

i think 4 across might be CHER

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:45 (twenty-two years ago)

she's a fucking headcase - in much the same way as i genuinely believe ann leslie to be certifiably insane - but calling her mel p makes me think of her covered in tats and wearing a shellsuit = HOTT (in a really twisted kinda way) ;)

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave, you are a sick, sick man.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:48 (twenty-two years ago)

SNP SLAG RANCH

you'd have to fill in 'unweed' for 6

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

and even i would never have thought abt "combining gardening with crime"...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom surely the on-paper wing of the LBO is the London Detournement Orchestra?

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Jesus Christ, do most of you people grade novels according to how much you "relate to" the main character or something? If so, would you be prepared to say it out loud? What if someone, say Orbit, started a thread with, "A numbskull co-worker just asked me for help with the Sun's showbiz quiz. Should I: a) impolitely give the right answer; b) impolitely give the wrong answer; or c) impolitely recite a bibliography of feminist pamphlets until she agrees that her ogling the bird on page 3 is wrong?"? See, I don't think Orbit would do that. It would be too gauche.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:52 (twenty-two years ago)

'the sun' means 'sky fireball' to americans. or should.

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"her ogling the bird on page 3 is wrong"

on the contrary - her bird-ogling could be seen a radical act of feminism, reclaiming the patriarchal practice of male-on-female lechery for the sisterhood. that said, i really don't understand what point you are trying to make with the "Jesus Christ, do most of you people grade novels according to how much you "relate to" the main character or something?" comment...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 09:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Remember the Stephen Lawrence 'MURDERERS' headline tho? What a day that was! We all stood around in the office slack-jawed saying, "WTF? The Mail!?" Admit it, that was a where-were-you-when moment

― dave q, Friday, 5 September 2003 10:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Wasn't that headline one of the main reason they got off scot free.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:01 (twenty-two years ago)

no it wasn't it was done after the trial and was a pretty bold move - one of the only uses of their power and IMMENSE resources that was worth anything at all, like: "come on, we're fucking minted - try and sue us and we'll screw you to the floor with the best legal team money can buy"

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:05 (twenty-two years ago)

they've also waged quite an ongoing campaign against all those involved... prison or the daily mail on my tail for the rest of my life... quite some choice...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Having just read the Monty Python thread I am now picturing Dave being chased down the steet by a giant copy of the Mail.

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Serious question tho - for all of you who actually care deeply about how this country is run and where it's going etc., don't the endless hysterical attacks on nu-Lab serve an IMPORTANT PURPOSE regardless of where they'e coming from? (*especially* the hysterical ones. Like, 'healthy democracy' and all that) (I don't mean the attacks on whatever else they attack, I mean the attacks on Nu-Lab specifically)

― dave q, Friday, 5 September 2003 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

that said, i really don't understand what point you are trying to make with the "Jesus Christ, do most of you people grade novels according to how much you "relate to" the main character or something?" comment...

The point is: on some days, the good days even, collecting the vouchers for a free visit to a health spa is more of a priority than the fight against fascism.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Or:

"In a recent article in Britain's Daily Telegraph titled Someone Needs to Have a Word With Amis, the British novelist Tibor Fischer described furtively reading an advance copy of Martin Amis's new novel, Yellow Dog, on the underground and worrying that strangers would assume incorrectly that he was enjoying himself. He wasn't."

from http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/08/29/1062050656574.html

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Having just read the Monty Python thread I am now picturing Dave being chased down the steet by a giant copy of the Mail.

i am now so scared i have to leave the office for a cigarette

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:17 (twenty-two years ago)

You have a point Dave, but the Mail retains a constant pitch of hysteria, so it reduces the validity of what they're saying.

(Totally right about Murders! though)

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Do they still give out free copies of the Independent on the Oxford Tube? A much better way to travel (except at cattle truck peak time obv).

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone actually READ the political bits of the Mail? Everyone I see with a copy on the train has usually flicked through to the bits about how eating too much fruit can give 8-year olds heart attacks or whatever.

I love the way that the majority of Mail readers I know read it because its small and easy to handle on the train, and they don't want to be seen reading DURTY red-top tabloids in public in case people make all sorts of snap decisions about them. Oh, hang on...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I just want to post this again:

http://alantrewartha.20m.com/dailymail.jpg

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I have had to restrain myself from leaping across tube seats when an otherwise normal looking person pulls out the Daily Mail. I have been this close.

I like the idea that reading the Mail describe the world as a dangerous place can actually make it dangerous. The anticipated horror as Anna lunges, and later the sobbed, "It's all true!"

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:38 (twenty-two years ago)

The telegraph is highly commendable if only for being the ONLY national daily to recognise the NUJ.

Suzy said this on another thread. I still don't understand what you mean by 'recognise'. I thought the only ones who were holding out were Associated Press and News International. The NUJ was certainly very big at the Guardian and Observer and even the Independent re-recognised it a while ago.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:41 (twenty-two years ago)

the express group recognises the nuj too, so it's wrong...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:48 (twenty-two years ago)

the only ones

Sorry - also not by Trinity Mirror (see bottom of story).

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:52 (twenty-two years ago)

This was what mark s told me. Recognise as in recognise the union as representing the staff for collective bargaining, I believe.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:56 (twenty-two years ago)

this has DEFINITELY been done at the express group recently after richard desmond took over...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:57 (twenty-two years ago)

this may of course have been pre the change in employment law to make recognition compulsory if the staff want it.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 10:59 (twenty-two years ago)

i do find it worrying that it is perfectlay acceptable to sit on a train reading the daily mail, but you just try to innocently flick through a copy of the razzle readers wives special...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 11:06 (twenty-two years ago)

ed i'm sure i never told you that!! i'm not sure i'd know either way, as i've always been nuj freelance

the telegraph in the late 80s and early 90s was certainly always considered by arts'n'pop freelancers a much more respectful place to work for (a nice old-skool polite posh person wd ring up and check if it wz ok to rewrite or cut copy etc; plus the subbing was anyway just better etc)

the guardian group were for ages notorious for pulling stunts on ownership of copy - ie they paid you rates for single appearance in the paper, then considered it wz theirs to sell on or re-use globally (i think rusbridger had a big change of heart though) - and the arts editors were just obnoxious igorant dickheads (present company excepted if it applies) (©all-purpose bad faith disclaimers inc)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 5 September 2003 11:08 (twenty-two years ago)

haha "igorant"

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 5 September 2003 11:09 (twenty-two years ago)

you go rant!

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 September 2003 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

could've sworn it was you

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 11:18 (twenty-two years ago)

alexis petridish surely the self-explanatory answer to yr query, mark...

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 11:35 (twenty-two years ago)

that's pretty much it. I can't think of anything more wasteful than spending time reading papers

This is a pretty sad state of affairs.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I read the Irish Times and the Guardian, the Irish Evening Herald is the closest we have to the mail.

After 9/11 they ran a story with a headline like "Many of Bin Laden's cohorts believed to be gay", because apparently "he liked to visit the baths" is a euphemism for this.

Also more recently there was a (fairly disturbing) story about an Irish doctor who had been removing womens wombs without their consent. Their opinion piece on it began "How ironic that Dr Xxxx's chosen field of expertise was fertility".

Yeah how ironic, I thought he was a fucking binman removing wombs without consent.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I notice that all Alexis Petridis articles in the Guardian have a little thing at the bottom saying "Read all of A. P.'s articles at [URL]". I'm always tempted to write in with "but why don't you mention all the things he wrote on Sinister".

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't think of anything more wasteful than spending time reading Alexis Petridis

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

being Alexis Petridish?

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

good point - whay isn't he a bright young thing tho?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

No doubt something terrible happened to music when he turned 26.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

And how come he gets three pages of the Friday Review to waste with a moan about how he couldn't get an interview with Kraftwerk, when even Gary bloody Crowley managed to get Ralf Hutter into the studio for an hour-long interview on t'radio the other week?

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 12:25 (twenty-two years ago)

because he is more talented than us....

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

...no, because Guardian supremos are thick and ignorant. I must needs remind you of Mr Petridish's predecessor...Tom Worst Music Writer In History Of The Universe So Bad Even My 14-Year-Old Nephew Laughs At Me Cox.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Friday Review is the second worst thing about the gaurdian. The worst being the 'revamped this year' Saturday Review. Someone should tell them that it's not the TLS or LRB never will be and that they should get over it, it was better when it was more general arts than just books.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I quite like the Saturday Review. It's good bog reading.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

stands to reason - he has a job doing it full-time, we are but dilettantes (and i'm certainly not capable of writing boringly about every single form of popular music under the sun) otherwise we would be doing much better than we are! PETRIDIS AND COX KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT ND ARE GREAT WRITERS! (whereas i, according to one certain broadsheet newpaper, am "too dry and academic"!)

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I quite like the Saturday Review. It's good bog reading.

i use julie burchill and zoe williams for toilet paper

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Er, that's the magazine, Dave.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i know... i was just saying

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:42 (twenty-two years ago)

love that capitalised irony, Dave! ;-)

The Saturday Guardian always makes me feel slightly nauseous. The "Guide" - misanthropic student rag written by 35-year-olds interspersed with beyond-cringe inducing PR puffs masquerading as "interviews" (e.g. BRMC piece last week). "Weekend" - Daily Mail Weekend imagining it's the New Yorker. "Review" - dead lifeless schoolmaster hectoring.

Although I do quite fancy Zoe Williams and the prospect of her using me for toilet paper gets me unfeasibly excited ;-)

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

The shinyness of the magazine precules me from using zoe williams as toilet paper. She has an evening bastard column which is as execrable as the Gaurdian magazine one.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Although I do quite fancy Zoe Williams and the prospect of her using me for toilet paper gets me unfeasibly excited ;-)

CALLING TOM EWING - ILX MUST BE STOPPED!!! (and that's coming from me so you know it must be pretty bad!)

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Leave Zoe alone, she is GORGEOUS; currently in my Premier League of Most Fanciable People I Don't Already Know, up there with Penny Smith, Kim Cattrall and Shania Twain...

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha - Caitlin's link to Alexis P's posts on Sinister is great. I was on the list then but I can't say I noticed him. See what a nice guy he is all you bitter old men!

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Shania is like a psychotic auntie.

You should all read Hot Press sometime, it's seriously worse than even the Guardian supplement. And I write for it. (doubly worse)

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

i do occasionally read hot press!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

he is a twee motherfucker - i ask you: posting to a belle & sebastian messageboard is bad enough but ending it with "love alexis xx" = capital offence!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

the only advantage of it is you can spot "opportunities" when they don't bother reviewing the neptunes or richard x albums. whether they still bother is never a foregone conclusion mind you

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

mmm, I'd love Shania to give me a hot press!

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

are your clothes excessively damp?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha - Caitlin's link to Alexis P's posts on Sinister is great. I was on the list then but I can't say I noticed him. See what a nice guy he is all you bitter old men!

-- N

I'm with Nick on this one.

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

also that should have read "that don't hot press me much"

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I used to defend Petridis alot, as N will recall. But the dance is dead article he did turned me into a werewolf. (predictably)

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm saying nothing more coz i like anna!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

and don't want to put my foot in it!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan how did you guess? ;-)

I'd rather have a "bitter old man" who actually knew something about music editing a broadsheet music section than a "nice guy" who can come up with nothing more original or stimulating than the observation that the lead singer of Tindersticks sounds like Vic Reeves' club singer, or that "dance music" is "dead" while licking his jangle-addled lips at its "corpse."

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I like you too Dave. I also like Alexsis. Don't make me choose damn you.

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

your foot was closer than you think with the b&s messageboard dissing Dave, you're sort of at the wiley coyote check your feet and realise there's nothing below stage I'd say!

The dance music article was the first thing he did which I felt had some malice in it, intentional or otherwise. (but I won't get myself started)

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha - Caitlin's link to Alexis P's posts on Sinister is great. I was on the list then but I can't say I noticed him. See what a nice guy he is all you bitter old men!

There are more posts than the ones that that link shows, I think. I especially like this one, about how Belle and Sebastian sound better when you're smoking cannabis.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

- Refuse while communicating the extent to which i DO NOT wish to receive the Daily Hate Mail despite the offence this may cause to the attendant and my fellow passengers?

this point may already have been made (I am too busy with important tasks to read all this thread), but the attendant is presumably a fellow member of the working class, so acting the prick towards him is a bit pointless.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

fellow member of the working class????

where did this come from? how do you know he is not lord robster of wessex?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, in reply to the original question, I'd just take it, thank the attendant and read it. Know your enemy, and all that.

I agree that if you're on £4 an hour or whatever Wessex Notrains pay their attendants, the last thing you want is grief from arsey passengers indulging in "class traitor" oneupmanship.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd take it to stop it being given to anyone who is of weak mind who might believe it. The same attitude should be taken with Mails left on trains.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

having skirted close to upsetting people i'm actually cue drum roll... going to say something positive now. reading thru the guardian review today and have to say that i LOVE john l walters. he's almost always otm re the stuff he covers cf the dissing he gives the req record, his panning of madlib's blue note abortion and his review of the matthew herbert big band live review earlier this year saying jamie lidell's 45-minute support slot "was about 40 minutes too long"!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

You can always roll it up and use it top beat mail readers with.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Agreed venting spleen at rail employees is a bad idea. Tom's dirty crossword suggestion, however, is a very good idea.

― Lord Robster of Wessex (robster), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I have no problem with people saying Petridis isn't a great writer. I just find it a bit unsavoury when ILXers seem to treat him as a nasty devil incarnate or conflate him with Tom Cox.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

That's a very Daily Mailesque sentiment, Ed.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I treat Petridish as a staid, stolid, unimaginative writer who has no ability to make his writing breathe or indeed exhibit any evidence of life beyond the mere recycling of sub-Hornby cliches. His review of Hail To The Thief, for instance, was an ill-informed insult.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)

And Walters is just as bad. Describe, describe, describe...nothing but words, paragraphs of dead description. He cannot make the music bleed.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I treat Petridish as a staid, stolid, unimaginative writer who has no ability to make his writing breathe or indeed exhibit any evidence of life beyond the mere recycling of sub-Hornby cliches. His review of Hail To The Thief, for instance, was an ill-informed insult.

He was just mirroring the tone of the album... just like his review of Ashanti was dull beyond belief ;)

If Petridish stuck to being superficially, smugly 'amusing' he'd be a lot better than he is... his review of the Shakira album made me giggle in the same way that the Grau fashion desk makes me giggle. Not because they have anything of import to say, but they have a nice turn of phrase to say it with.

― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I know nothing about 'hail to the thief' except its title and artwork. it seems like an ill-informed insult. petridis must be very clever.

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Petridish is the Thom Yorke of music journalism!

― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm just a little tired of the fact that ILx seems to trot out the same whipping boys whatever the subject and then berate them in exactly the same fashion. We start off talking about the Daily Mail and veer towards politics and all of a sudden we're back to slagging off Alexsis Petridis. Come on, why not start on Mark Beaumont and Coner McNicholas now and complete the circle?

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Or at least if you're going to criticise Radiohead, find more original angles than "oh they should write more tunes like they did on OK Computer" and "no one bought Kid A or Amnesiac (er, number one and two respectively in America? Why not try to do some basic research for a start?)." Otherwise such a review will only indicate that you're a tone deaf, ignorant wanker who would be unfit even to review Sounds of the '60s package shows for the Woking and District Evening Chronicle.

As for Beaumont, McNicholas - hack hack hack, preferably with a chainsaw.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 5 September 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Marcello is the Simon Cowell of music journalism.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh fuck it. Point totally missed. I have work to do, so I'm off to make some music bleed.

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

If you're going to attack music journalists, find more original angles than the old 'death fantasy' routine.

(-;

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 5 September 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Who writes about music for the Daily Mail.

Hang on, does ANYONE? Does the Daily Mail acknowledge the existence of pop music beyond Sir Paul, Sir Mick, Sir Cliff, So Solid Crew and Kylie's bottom?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 5 September 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

There was a Mail review of the PJ Harvey gig at Tate Modern today. Essentially, they like her because she has "matured from an austere singer-songwriter into an accessible rock star", but find that her new song is "rather too gratuitous in its use of four-letter words". I kid you not. There is no byline.

― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 5 September 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

simon cowell can't sing/dance, can he?

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 5 September 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Mail pop coverage, today.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Friday, 5 September 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

O NO - Femail lays into Simon Cowell and it's not afraid to use the phrase 'red blooded heterosexuality'!

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 5 September 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Obviously you're not. A gay man would have better taste in trousers.

!!!!!!!

I think this proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the first thing you do is READ the Daily Mail whenever it is offered to you.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 5 September 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

adrian thrills writes about music for the daily mail

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

and while the precise amount of arse i believe alexis petridis to suck is pretty well known round these here parts, i have to say i really do agree with anna - he doesn't work for the daily mail so it is all a bit off-topic...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 5 September 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Adrian Thrills is pretty much The Thrills of music journalism, appropriately enough

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 September 2003 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

whats so bad about the guardian?
the news coverage i mean?
i don't read any paper cover to cover,although i do read a lot of the irish times,but the articles in the guardian on the events in the news that interest me (the david kelly thing,for example)usually seem to be quite good
do people have a problem with individual writers?(other than alexis petridis,i'm thinking of news writers more than anything i suppose)or editorial policy or what?
i mean,there are frequently things in the guardian that piss me off,but it seems to be the best of a bad lot
the irish times is in general good,although they have several really dreadful writers,but for more in depth coverage of foreign affairs i tend to turn to the guardian (as indeed does the irish times on occasion)

― robin (robin), Friday, 5 September 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd look at it. It has Peanuts in it, after all.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 5 September 2003 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I notice that all Alexis Petridis articles in the Guardian have a little thing at the bottom saying "Read all of A. P.'s articles at [URL]".

In Private Eye this week there's a 'Sir Hitler Hastings' spoof which ends w/ the tag "If you would like to read more of Sir Maz Hasting's articles for the Daily Mail, you must be mad", made me LOL

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 5 September 2003 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I used to find Spencer Bright's "pop" music reviews in the Mail unwittingly hilarious. Especially his reference in the mid-90s to the new rather scary young person's genre called "bass'n'drum". My uncle who went to the Sex Pistols' Finsbury Park gig in 1996 was mightily pissed off with Bright's review, calling it "revenge" for all their old prejudices - and said uncle actually *reads* the bloody Mail and agrees with more of it than he'd let on (very contradictory man he is, though; he says he hated aristocrats as a young man, but was driven by his Thatcherite aggressive radicalism to vote Tory in 1983 when he was 20 - unfortunately the Tory MP he voted for was a Viscount ...)

Ah well, back to the point. I'd take the Mail, give it a cursory terrified inspection, remind myself of where many of my frustrations lead back to, and then do what Marcello said; take it home with me so as to ensure that nobody overtly gullible or impressionable read it. The urgent and key point though; Mr Stelfox, is the thing true about Paul Dacre being a loud, obnoxious inveterate (and completely hypocritical of course in the light of the paper's slant) user of swear words?

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Sunday, 7 September 2003 06:13 (twenty-two years ago)

he is very loud a complete snob, a bully and yes he uses expletives quite liberally. my favourite ever dacreism was when he tore a page of the dummy issue on the lectern, threw it across the newsroom and yelled: "who the fuck is responsible for this? it has to be the worst page in the entire fucking history of journalism." oh, did i say he is also prone to the odd exaggeration?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 7 September 2003 09:18 (twenty-two years ago)

ilx does not dissapoint when it comes to giving out hate.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 7 September 2003 11:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Irony: The Daily Mail on Friday was actually pretty reasonable.

The Spanish Doctors section was about a child who dies on holiday and the parent agreed over the phone that they could take stuff for transplants, bot realising that by Spanish Law, this meant they could just take anything they wanted. So the kid they got back had padding where her brain/liver/lungs/etc should be.

The article was terribly written, mind. It starts off saying "doctors stole organs", and then on the second page mentions that they did contact the parents about organ transplants, causing this reader to imagine that it's a big flap about nothing. Then on the last column they mention that there were non-transplant organs missing.

Also a lot of reasonably well-written "Okay, Mr Blair the gig is up stuff inside"

Though the next day it was back to queues of immigrants at Calais.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Sunday, 7 September 2003 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm American, so I've never read the Daily Mail (although it sounds quite horrible), but one good thing about getting free newspapers is that it gives you something else to put down on the floor for the dog.

Didn't anyone ever tell you how to do crossword puzzles on the train?

1: Fill it out very quickly in ink.
2: Tear entire puzzle out of the paper before anyone sees what you've written (complete nonsense, of course)
3: Say loudly, "I wish they would start printing something that's challenging!"
4: Throw puzzle out the window.

(Disclaimer: I stole this one from Mad Magazine)

― Christine 'Green Leafy Dragon' Indigo (cindigo), Sunday, 7 September 2003 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

is Keith Waterhouse still writing for the Mail? his columns were always uncomfortably reminiscent of the Ageing Yorkshire Fogey character he mocked in "Billy Liar" - he also still thought Sharon and Tracey references were funny 10 years after everyone else had stopped laughing ...

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Monday, 8 September 2003 09:44 (twenty-two years ago)

oh he still is and he still uses same references

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 8 September 2003 11:47 (twenty-two years ago)

According to an article in today's Media Guardian, all UK daily papers have been experiencing declining circulations in the past year, except the Star.

To try to reverse this seemingly indefinite downward trend some owners and editors have decided to adopt the slogan: innovate or die. It's not guaranteed to work, of course, because innovation could just as easily cause death.

I look forward to exploding 'scratch 'n' snuff' pages, sachets of anthrax, razor-sharp mirrorball glitz embossing, 'Innovations' inserts with detailed instructions on how to make nail bombs and plant them near asylum camps, one-shots from the Surrey Gun Club, and the launch of a spicily poisonous new title called The Daily SARS, edited from a quarantined site in Docklands.

What I want to know is -- stupid question, really -- why on national airlines they never give you the liberal paper? Like on Air France, Liberation is the one paper mysteriously missing from their selection. And on British Airways they 'don't seem to have The Guardian, sorry.'

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Well I guess most business travellers are conservative.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Never mind that, why it is near impossible to buy the Guardian in ordinary (i.e. round the corner) newsagents in Scotland? When I was up for the August Bank Holiday, in one newsagent I was gruffly snarled at: "we dinnae have the Guardian - that's an ENGLISH paper," accompanied by a see-if-you-come-in-ma-shop-again glare. Never used to be a problem when I were a lad.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 8 September 2003 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I've had trouble buying the Guardian in Watford.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

re: the airline thing.it's often down to the bulk distribution deals. Airlines pretty much get there complimentary papers for nothing (well below cost), the liberal papers can less afford this largesse..

― Ed (dali), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I think its because the publishers have an agreement with the airlines, don't they? I mean, on Ryanair you can only get the Daily Fucking Express, which just about says it all.

(X-post with Ed)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Watford newsagent response obv: "Sir, we do not stock the (spit) Guardian - that's a NORTHERN paper."

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 8 September 2003 12:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Marcello, you must have been in Glasgow. In Edinburgh it seems to be one of the most popular papers. As you said, it is English :-)

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Surely the North starts at Watford?

― Ed (dali), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I have never had a problem, but then I live in central Glasgow. I can even buy the IoS and that only sells about three copies in the whole of Scotland.

I used to not be able to buy any broadsheet in several newsagents (well, maybe sweetshops with the odd paper) in Manchester and Sheffield side streets.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

the three closest places to my flat, in glasgow, that sell newspapers, sell the guardian. I don't think there are so many around the centre of town that do not.

crosspost.

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Worst place for newspapers: the Outer Hebrides. No papers at all on Sundays - they don't arrive until Monday morning. Multi-section weekend papers usually have several bits missing, especially any glossy magazine sections.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

can be awkward to get the Guardian here, obviously. Not as awkward as people making comments about why you might be reading an English paper. The Irish Times is good but has nothing on the Guardian in terms of criticism/lifestyle/global stuff.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah well...serves me right for being stuck out in Bothwell then (nearest Grauniad retailer: WH Smith in Hamilton).

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 8 September 2003 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, are the English papers still much cheaper than the Irish Times too?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

In Ireland, is there a special rule about daily papers having to be the same price each day?

I ask because I've noticed that The Guardian is much more expensive on Saturdays in the UK; the Irish price is higher than the British one on weekdays but is the same every day of the week.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, considerably cheaper.

Guardian is 80 cent, and the Irish Times is 1.30 (I think, perhaps 1.35) and rising rising rising, despite massive increase in number of ads etc. The Irish Times has been in some degree of financial trouble recently.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Glossy magazines are sin, as is reading anything other than the Bible on Sundays.

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 8 September 2003 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Someone rang up from South Uist this morning wanting to get hold of the supplement on clans that appeared in yesterday's Sunday Herald. I informed the parish minister, obv.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 8 September 2003 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

can be awkward to get the Guardian here, obviously.

? As I can buy the Guardian without hassle in the nearby shop on Fenian Street, I'm moved to ask what you're on about.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 8 September 2003 13:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe you always get Ronan's copy.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 8 September 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

you live in the city centre you coffee swilling urbanite you

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 8 September 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Bastard's always done the crossword, too.

xpost: so where are you getting this grief? (= I'm embarrased that I've forgotten where you work)

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 8 September 2003 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

ronan speaks the truth. in some places (eg, stoneybatter, cabinteely) you have to get up very early on saturday to get one of the few copies on the guardian that are about. it is the paper that runs out quickest every saturday. i've never heard any cracks about reading english papers though.

― angela (angela), Monday, 8 September 2003 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

It always sells out here first too. And it was the same in London. Particularly the Saturday one - get up at midday and you've missed it.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 8 September 2003 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

(I think the Guardian's distribution policy is 'leave em wanting more')

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 8 September 2003 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, okay, I was imagining actual lairiness rather than lack of supply.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 8 September 2003 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I work in the city centre now, but I live in M*lahide where there were about 3 copies in the entire village (6 or 7 newsagents) on a given day. It was actually a case of texting a friend to tell him I'd got the last copy at times.

Though eventually I just asked them to save one for me.

The jibes were more at the bank than in this job, I guess cos the people here are mostly graduates. They ranged from "why are you reading an english paper" to "that's a very snobby paper isnt it". Which it is I suppose, those endless profiles of precocious teenagers etc, but still.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 8 September 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

nine months pass...

Bosko Balaban Stats For Season

Name Bosko Balaban
Team Aston Villa
Total Appearances 0
Starts 0
Substituted 0
Total Minutes Played 0
Avg Minutes Played Per Start 0
Goals 0
Avg Goal Mins When Starting 0.0
Avg Mins Played/Goal Scored 0
Goals Scored As Sub 0
Number of Bookings 0
Total Booking Minutes 0
Avg Bookings Per Start 0
Number of Red Cards 0
Total Red Card Minutes 0
Avg Red Cards Per Start 0

― bosko, Monday, 14 June 2004 02:50 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=489256&in_page_id=1770

― admrl, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 03:03 (eighteen years ago)

What even is double glazing? There were jokes about it in Good Omens that I did not understand.

― Abbott, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 03:11 (eighteen years ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulated_glazing

― admrl, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 03:16 (eighteen years ago)

Why thank you!

― Abbott, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 03:17 (eighteen years ago)

lol this shit is worse than the post!

― max, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 03:18 (eighteen years ago)

five years pass...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242944/Remembrance-parade-gatecrasher-38-claims-didn-t-realise-march-taking-place-skated-crowd-wearing-pink-outfit-horned-mask.html

― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 4 December 2012 22:47 (thirteen years ago)

nine months pass...

http://i.imgur.com/8QQqE76.png

the daily mail brand could use a bit of devillment i guess

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/jan/09/pressandpublishing.dailyexpress/print

― Lama Bloody SwagYurt (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Sunday, 15 September 2013 13:36 (twelve years ago)

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Etiquette Question: The Daily Mail

BLOODY DAGOS - FIRST THEY TAKE OUR FISHING WATERS NOW THEY'RE AFTER OUR YOUNG!

House prices unaffected!