― Chris P (Chris P), Sunday, 7 September 2003 03:31 (twenty-two years ago)
My father is a biker, in a state where I think helmet laws are mandatory. He has pointed out that some people think that helmets reduce the amount of auditory information you get, which can actually make it more dangerous. Which I'm not sure I buy, but I'm not a biker.
― Chris P (Chris P), Sunday, 7 September 2003 03:40 (twenty-two years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 7 September 2003 04:05 (twenty-two years ago)
― Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 7 September 2003 04:08 (twenty-two years ago)
So yeah, helmets save lives, etc.
― JuliaA (j_bdules), Sunday, 7 September 2003 04:45 (twenty-two years ago)
In an alternate story, I was walking drunk up my street in the dark as a teenager and a guy on a motorbike who I'd never seen before in my life stopped and asked if I wanted a ride and since I could barely see because I was too drunk I thought it was a good idea so I got on the back and we rode around for a while then he dropped me off at my boyfriend's house. It was tremendous fun - leaning over sideways towards the road which looked like a white blur.
― good storyteller (m .s), Sunday, 7 September 2003 07:35 (twenty-two years ago)
― really great storyteller (m .s), Sunday, 7 September 2003 07:39 (twenty-two years ago)
― Andrew (enneff), Sunday, 7 September 2003 10:17 (twenty-two years ago)
― Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 7 September 2003 10:18 (twenty-two years ago)
In Florida the mandatory motorcycle helmet law has ben repealed. All you have to do is have $10,000 worth of health insurance and you're free to go without protection. And yet the average price of medical treatment for a head injury incurred while riding a motorcycle is somewhere around $350,000, from what I recall.
Yeah, this state should just be cut-off and allowed to sink.
― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Sunday, 7 September 2003 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)
Me girlfriend is against bike helmets, so I am too. I reckon that cycling slowly and carefully is probably all the defence you need. OK so you might fall and hit your head, but you could do that while walking.
― The Real Dirty Vicar, Monday, 8 October 2007 17:07 (eighteen years ago)
having said that, since I got my bike, my beloved has started thinking that maybe bike helmets are not such a bad idea after all.
Haha, okay, wait, I never ever wear my bike helmet unless required for an organized ride or something, but I'm not even going to TRY to argue that they are IN ANY WAY less safe than NOT wearing a helmet!! That is madness! Really they are v important because on average you are going to get hit eventually (city riders especially), and the more you ride, the more your chances go up.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)
being 'against' bike helmets is retarded
― deej, Monday, 8 October 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)
Me girlfriend is against bike helmets, so I am too. I reckon that cycling slowly and carefully is probably all the defence you need. OK so you might fall and hit your head, but you could do that while walking
LOL you complete idiot
― Mark C, Monday, 8 October 2007 17:13 (eighteen years ago)
i have, since moving back to the city, seen helmets save two dudes brains already.
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 17:26 (eighteen years ago)
saved my brain 2 weeks ago.
car pulled out of an entrance straight in front of me, my helmet has a crack on the front right side.
― Jarlrmai, Monday, 8 October 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)
Because Jarlrmai's brain is classic and it was saved by a bike helmet, I vote that said helmets are now proved classic by incontrovertable logic.
― Aimless, Monday, 8 October 2007 17:49 (eighteen years ago)
has? you didn't get a new helmet? cracks = new helmet times, dude.
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 17:51 (eighteen years ago)
i have seen a couple of bike accidents, one with the most injured party wearing a helmet, one not wearing one. so i wear a helmet.
― emsk, Monday, 8 October 2007 18:31 (eighteen years ago)
I always wear a helmet. It's cheap insurance and the easiest way to mitigate some of the dangers of biking. Helmets nowadays are so light and well ventilated that it's just really not a big deal to wear one.
Most motorcyclists around here don't wear helmets, which I find baffling. Just last month I saw (shouldn't have looked) the immediate aftermath of a motorcycle accident. The rider didn't make a turn in the road and hit a concrete retaining wall. He died. Maybe a helmet would have saved him.
― Super Cub, Monday, 8 October 2007 18:58 (eighteen years ago)
I'll take "threads you don't remember starting" for $200, Alex.
― Casuistry, Monday, 8 October 2007 18:59 (eighteen years ago)
I CANNOT get the lovely emma b to wear her helmet. I think she doesn't wear it because she likes the feeling of free-spiriting around, hair blowing in the breeze, etc and a helmet would make it all seem planned, serious, un-fun. That 90% of her bike rides are to and from work doesn't appear to have any bearing on this. It drives me INSANE. I even got her a BMX style helmet that looks cooler (but which is potentially less safe) but she won't wear that one either!
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:05 (eighteen years ago)
i now have a 40 min bike commute each way every day, so my stats have jumped way up; yeah, time to always wear a helmet, sigh. easier to get used to now that it's colder out though.
― rrrobyn, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:06 (eighteen years ago)
which helmet looks least stupid please
― sleep, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:06 (eighteen years ago)
Personally I think the solid-surface skateboarding or BMX helmets look less douchey, but they are HOT HOT inside. Cold weather will prob take care of that problem, though.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:07 (eighteen years ago)
yeah, skate helmets can even look cool if you like crash a lot and put stickers on.
or not.
hell of hot, though.
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:09 (eighteen years ago)
see also ski helmets if you ride in the winter
I just don't get what is so horrible about wearing a helmet!? It's like, you put it on and.. uh. What is the problem? oh it's the HEAT? well i don't have that problem in london lawls
sleep i got her one that looks like this:
http://www.bellbmx.com/media/content/faction_black_lg.jpg
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:10 (eighteen years ago)
http://static.backcountry.com/images/items/medium/PRO0018/ASFMGB.jpg
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:11 (eighteen years ago)
http://app.infopia.com/img/image/fp/VPID/2621858/size/175
http://www.maxlifestyle.net/shopimages/snowboarding/helmets/gir0019l.gif
^^^ the "bad lieutenant" lol
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:12 (eighteen years ago)
nb those are all ski helmets
This is a nice looking helmet, especially if you remove the visor. But don't be so vain!
http://www.ostrad.de/cms/fileadmin/inhalt_bilder/zubehor/helme/bell_metropolis_schwarz_mittel.jpg
― Super Cub, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:12 (eighteen years ago)
only good in the cold if you ask me, but perfectly safe for yr noggin
i have mashed my head skiing waaaaaaaaay more times than i have biking (which is 0 basically)
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:13 (eighteen years ago)
xp I have that one, and it looks absolutelyfuckingridiculous on my giant head. "One size fits all" my ass.
― dan m, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:13 (eighteen years ago)
i still have my old mid-90s black helmet that i wore for years and i should probably replace even though it's never been in an accident. does the foam etc lose durability over time? i'm guessing it does
bmx style ones look alright and are usually cheaper but they are heavier and yeah pretty warm. i'd rather wear a lighter helmet. i don't know, if i'm on a bike i don't care too much how i look, i guess, because i mean, in my head i'm going so fast people can only see me for a second and then vooom i'm gonnnnne
xpost that bell one looks okay
― rrrobyn, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:14 (eighteen years ago)
i put new tires on my bike yesterday. okay a friend put new tires on my bike and i drank coffee and watched through hangover haze. but yeah they are thin and now i go faster. which is prob also a sign that i need to wear helmet. i'm just trying to convince myself here. p.s. continue with your horror stories.
― rrrobyn, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:16 (eighteen years ago)
my only beef with helmets is having to take/remember them in the bar, when i'm riding without a bag of any kind. but that's a relatively minor beef, and, frankly, to and from the bar is precisely when you need a helmet most.
i never wore in montana, don't leave home without here. as i said, have seen two people make trips to the hospital, and have heard countless stories in the last MONTH alone.
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:18 (eighteen years ago)
Some advice on when to replace you helmet
― Super Cub, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:19 (eighteen years ago)
OK so I went over this see-saw thing once on a freeridey trail and the next thing I knew I was doing a headstand without using my arms. Then I was verrrry dazed and confused and lying on my back. My helmet split in half but aside from bruises and a tacoed wheel I was okay.
― dan m, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:19 (eighteen years ago)
thanks for link super cub - i think mine is fine for the rest of the year and i'll get a new one next spring when it gets warm again
― rrrobyn, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:21 (eighteen years ago)
river wolf, i carry a smaller lock just for my helmet and use it to lock my helmet to my bike. hey presto! hands free for gesturing and stabbing the air angrily.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:21 (eighteen years ago)
rrrobyn:
i was at an alleycat (admittedly not the usual person's ride, but) and it was styled like a crit. dude was making a sharp turn after coming down chicago's only hill, faltered (no idea how) and blew onto the sidewalk, bounced off his head basically, and crumpled to the floor. had a concussion as it was (he was dozey), and probably would have had a closed-head injury had it not been for the helmet (which cracked, but didn't crumple).
other dude was a little drunk, and couldn't get out of his clipless pedals at a stoplight and tipped over right onto his noggin.
third dude was on the lakeshore, and a jogger (HEADPHONES) darted right in front of him, he sweved, and wrapped hisself around a lamppost. hospital, punctured lung, cracked helmet, eetc.
xp good idea!
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:22 (eighteen years ago)
i'm usually able to fit the lock through a hole in my helmet, actually, even though i've only got a mini u-lock
...or HAD a mini u-lock, until i forgot it in the cab i had to take home (i was the "other dude" above)
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:23 (eighteen years ago)
http://www.foneblog.ie/photos/24/3f/f736f6dc0031.jpg
― emsk, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:23 (eighteen years ago)
that is a picture of half of andrew farrell's helmet after his bike crash last year
― emsk, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:24 (eighteen years ago)
horror stories and pics = working
― rrrobyn, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:26 (eighteen years ago)
I kinda think the people who look dumbest are the ones hauling ass in city traffic without a helmet.
― kenan, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:27 (eighteen years ago)
i understand the casual cyclist not wearing a helmet for fashion or convenience or helmet hair or whatever, but working messengers w/o helmets are just o_O
like, assuming that EVERY cyclist will get clipped after, what, a couple thousand miles on city streets, it just seems retardo to put down 50-60 miles A DAY, in the LOOP/Manhattan/LDN/wherever and not wear a lid. dumb dumb dumb. like, dumber than no brakes, by a long shot.
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:30 (eighteen years ago)
i'm pretty comfortable in my hood without a helmet, but riding across manhattan to work at rush hour can get a liiiiiittle dicey and i guess i better wear one for that :/ both of those bells look ok, thx dudes
― sleep, Monday, 8 October 2007 19:42 (eighteen years ago)
never fear this is my new helmet
http://www.esford.com/AH6038%20Pickelhaube%20md.jpg
my old helmet is not as a bad as mr farrells tho'
― Jarlrmai, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:00 (eighteen years ago)
yeah vanity is almost as bad a look as cracked skull, no reason not to wear a helmet esp. because so many people suck at driving.
and yeah i lock my helmet to the bike lock itself
― deej, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:05 (eighteen years ago)
my solution to looking cool with a bike helmet on (circa winter NYC transit strike) = stretch giant brightly colored knit cap over entire helmet
now, instead of looking like a guy in a bike helmet, you look like an enemy from Super Mario Bros.
― nabisco, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:09 (eighteen years ago)
(passersby may or may not assume that you just have SUCH HUGE DREADS that you have to keep them all up in your hat so they don't fall down and get caught in your gears and stuff)
― nabisco, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:10 (eighteen years ago)
i used to spend about £30 on helmets and they were always a bit heavy and hot and dorky looking. I spent £70 on my current one and I love it - light and super ventilated, and looks cool. Well maybe. Anyway I don't feel compelled to take it off after a ride even on super hot days. It's a specialized but can't remember what model.
― ledge, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:15 (eighteen years ago)
working summers in a bike shop when i was younger meant i saw tons of helmets smashed in half after accidents, and people thanking their lucky stars that they'd had a helmet on. sure they look dorky, but i figure being paralyzed or dead is way less 'cool' than wearing a helmet...
― colette, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:15 (eighteen years ago)
Y'know, I started out on this thread as a champion of bike helmets, but a long list of "GAWD you people are so STUPID, you must fear looking DORKY" posts is making me never want to see a helmet again.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:21 (eighteen years ago)
why
― deej, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:24 (eighteen years ago)
http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/
3. No Helmets EVER - It is amazing to me coming from San Francisco, land of 100 percent helmet covered heads, but in all of Amsterdam (population 750,000) there is not one bicycle helmet found anywhere in the city. Not ONE!! Contrast this with San Francisco, for anybody under the age of 18, there is a Mandatory Helmet Law, and everybody above 18 wears helmets anyway. Now faced with this shocking disparity, I think any reasonable person must come to the conclusion that either the people in Netherlands do not value the safety of their children, or San Francisco bicyclists are clumsy pansies with soft heads and weak minds that must be protected from hurting themselves no matter how much it infringes on individual rights.
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7276/1582
By telling people that they need helmets for an activity that for a century has been regarded as "safe"---and in fact has a fine safety record---you inevitably engender the impression that cycling must have become more dangerous than driving and walking. That deters cycling. That reduces cyclists' presence on the roads. That increases the risk of death. And if wild claims about helmets saving lives are published in the media,9 helmet users are bound to feel overly secure, thus compromising their one vital safety feature---a sense of caution.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:24 (eighteen years ago)
if ur not careful i will bring up NAZIS
xp
helmet users are bound to feel overly secure, thus compromising their one vital safety feature---a sense of caution.
lol you have to be kidding me
― deej, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:25 (eighteen years ago)
dudes with this helmet on i am IMPERVIOUS, time to go bike against traffic!
― deej, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:26 (eighteen years ago)
http://www.masonpeett.co.uk/Illustdraw/ILLUSTRATORS/Lockhart.jpg
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:26 (eighteen years ago)
i mean the problem w/ the 'helmet makes people feel so secure they do stupid things!' argument is that the helmet provides extremely limited protection, its not like you won't, you know, get hit and break legs, or arms, or lose limbs etc.
i have a friend who lost his friend after she was hit and basically run over, i dont think anyone wearing a helmet is operating under the assumption that it becomes a license to stupidity.
― deej, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:28 (eighteen years ago)
Seriously, article writer, fuck you.
― Mark C, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:31 (eighteen years ago)
I think helmets are mostly protecting the only thing that cyclists are MORE at risk for than, say, pedestrians are. I mean, when peds are hit don't they usually get certain kinds of injuries b/c of the height of bumpers and etc? With cyclists there's a reasonable chance the car is mostly hitting the bike, what you have to worry about is much more the LANDING.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:32 (eighteen years ago)
the numbers don't lie
― ledge, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:33 (eighteen years ago)
No, I agree. The "people think a helmet makes you invincible" bit is bullshit. I think this bit holds water though: "That deters cycling. That reduces cyclists' presence on the roads. That increases the risk of death.", provided we accept that helmet laws reduce cycling.
I've cycled to work and back every day for two years and have never worn a helmet. I live in an extremely bike-friendly/dominated city where the drivers are very aware of cyclists. I'm not sure I'd do the same in, say, London.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:33 (eighteen years ago)
(xpost to self -drivers pass closer to cyclists wearing helmets)
"To test another theory, Dr Walker donned a long wig to see whether there was any difference in passing distance when drivers thought they were overtaking what appeared to be a female cyclist.
Whilst wearing the wig, drivers gave him an average of 14 centimetres (5.5 inches) more space when passing."
― ledge, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:34 (eighteen years ago)
Whilst wearing the wig, drivers gave him an average of 14 centimetres (5.5 inches) more space when passing.
I need a wig.
xpost.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:35 (eighteen years ago)
xpost! - Actually, probably more important = recent tests demonstrating that people in cars are cautious about non-helmeted cyclists, whereas they'll speed by within inches of people wearing helmets
FWIW, I wear a helmet while driving and while in airplanes / airports
― nabisco, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:37 (eighteen years ago)
Also on the toilet
http://www.iihs.org/research/fatality_facts/bicycles.html
Two percent of motor vehicle-related deaths are bicyclists. The most serious injuries among a majority of those killed are to the head, highlighting the importance of wearing a bicycle helmet. Helmet use has been estimated to reduce head injury risk by 85 percent.1 Twenty states and the District of Columbia have helmet laws applying to young bicyclists; none of these laws applies to all riders. Local ordinances in a few states require some or all bicyclists to wear helmets. A nationwide phone survey estimated that state helmet use laws increase by 18 percent the probability that a rider will wear a helmet.2 Helmets are important for riders of all ages, especially because more than 80 percent of bicyclist deaths are persons 16 and older.
The following facts are based on analysis of data from the US Department of Transportation's Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS).
Eighty-six percent of bicyclists killed in 2005 reportedly weren't wearing helmets.
Bicyclist deaths by helmet use, 1994-2005 Year No helmet use Helmet use Total* Num % Num % Num 1994 776 97 19 2 796 1995 783 95 34 4 828 1996 731 96 27 4 761 1997 785 97 23 3 811 1998 741 98 16 2 757 1999 698 93 42 6 750 2000 622 90 50 7 689 2001 616 84 60 8 729 2002 589 89 54 8 663 2003 535 85 58 9 626 2004 602 83 87 12 722 2005 673 86 76 10 782
― deej, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:42 (eighteen years ago)
u_u
Twenty-three percent of bicyclists killed in 2005 had blood alcohol concentrations (BACs) at or above 0.08 percent. This is 26 percent higher than in 1982.
http://ask.metafilter.com/44634/Cyclists-reasons-for-not-wearing-helmets
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:45 (eighteen years ago)
I started out on this thread as a champion of bike helmets, but a long list of "GAWD you people are so STUPID, you must fear looking DORKY" posts is making me never want to see a helmet again.
This is now an xpost, because deej made my point, but I'm with evan, actually. I can see riding without a helmet for a little ways in non-life-threatening traffic, I do it too, but in serious city traffic, people DIE. A friend of a friend in Austin died. And that woman from Stereolab.
― kenan, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:46 (eighteen years ago)
what you have to worry about is much more the LANDING
yup. This dude I knew who died was thrown 40 feet and hit a lamppost and cracked his skull. He'd have been very injured with or without a helmet, but with a helmet he wouldn't be dead.
― kenan, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:49 (eighteen years ago)
xxpost to deej, I don't think anyone disagrees that, in an accident, you really want to be wearing a helmet. (The same goes for car accidents, incidentally. From that BMJ article: "Incidentally, 17 times more motorists than cyclists died of head injuries in Australia during 1988")
The point is that wouldn't we be better expending legislative and cultural efforts on reducing the number of accidents, rather than making them less painful?
xpost to deej, you should see the bike racks outside pubs and clubs in Oxford. Students cycling drunk here is a real problem. I (barely) remember trying to ram-raid a branch of Clinton Cards on a racing bike in 1999. Very silly. Like the vast majority of young people in Oxford, I still occasionally cycle while over the drink driving limit. This is way stupider than not wearing a helmet.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:51 (eighteen years ago)
cf all the bikers i know (pbr swilling messengers and messenger-wannabes)
also, that "study" that that ONE guy did on HIS way to work /= real science
fwiw, all the skiers i know get waaaaaaaay dumber when they put on a helmet, myself included. this does not happen while cycling. this is due, i think, to the fact that most cycling accidents at least appear to happen TO you (even if it's your fault), whereas accidents in other "helmet sports" involve you doing something outside your abilities (but it's okay, you've got a helmet on!).
i don't think many think that when they're dealing with garbage trucks and shit
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:56 (eighteen years ago)
I still occasionally cycle while over the drink driving limit. This is way stupider than not wearing a helmet.
i'd say thats highly arguable
i haven't made any arguments in favor of laws ordering ppl to wear helmets, but i think it still makes sense to SHAME ppl into not being stupid. the justifications for not wearing them are largely empty
also that 'study' about cars driving is pretty junky science. the scientist himself is the subject of the study? and he could control the variables himself by driving closer to traffic while wearing a helmet. suspect
― deej, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:57 (eighteen years ago)
ladies there is a way to make it work i'm sure http://www.ambrel.net/2007/0907-snoopy/IMG_2115.jpg
― deej, Monday, 8 October 2007 20:59 (eighteen years ago)
THE FUTURE: http://www.dnaco.net/~vogelke/pictures/how-to-hug-a-baby/ATT00900.jpg
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:05 (eighteen years ago)
oh wait that's not it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDeJ7rLUYU
or we could all just wear big dogs on our heads
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:06 (eighteen years ago)
Yaow. A lot of studies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#The_helmet_debate
What a pickle.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:07 (eighteen years ago)
Remember when people debated whether seatbelts made you safer?
Neither do I.
― kenan, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:10 (eighteen years ago)
(And a pretty strong anti-helmet bias in that Wikipedia article)
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:11 (eighteen years ago)
get freakonomics on the case
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:12 (eighteen years ago)
btw, i really want that shovel dude's weirdo helmet/hat. it would be perfect for skiing!
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:13 (eighteen years ago)
Yo, fashion plate Red Baroness up there isn't wearing a helmet, she's wearing a tiny thin cap. Also she's a fashion plate so shove it.
xp on second thought maybe she's been talking to orange goo guy.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:20 (eighteen years ago)
Also, with the amount of sweat that collects in helmets, there's NO WAY I can keep my skin from breaking out everywhere it touches. Sure, I'd rather have acne than be dead, but it's not a 1:1 comparison....
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:22 (eighteen years ago)
kenan, there are plenty of things that make you (as a driver, cyclist or pedestrian) less likely to die in the event of an accident. Helmets for everyone, for instance. The seatbelt analogy is no fairer than saying if cyclists need helmets then so do drivers. It doesn't trivially follow that everything that makes you safer in the event of an accident should be required in everyday use (or even encouraged -- drivers in fat suits would have less serious injuries in crashes, but presumably crash more because they can't move their arms).
What do we want and how do we prioritize these things if we can't have all of them? Fewer accidents? Fewer fatal accidents? Faster journeys? Fewer cars? More cyclists? Healthier people? The wind in our hair? A less restricted view? The personal and legislative questions are much more complicated than demonstrating that in accidents people wearing helmets are more likely to survive.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:24 (eighteen years ago)
yeah, cycling right now = me standing outside bars/people's houses awkwardly waiting for the sweat to evaporate a bit.
i should make like the classy dudes i saw at the southern wedding i attended, and just bring a brow-mopper with me all the time.
xp wait are we talking about requiring helmets now? if so, leave me out of it.
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:25 (eighteen years ago)
I'm talking about shaming people into wearing them, or saying it's obvious that they're a good thing.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:27 (eighteen years ago)
it's pretty obvious that bike helmets are a good thing, duder
― Mr. Que, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:28 (eighteen years ago)
Apparently not to the entire population of Scandinavia.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:29 (eighteen years ago)
wait, are you talking about. . .Geir Hongro?
― Mr. Que, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:30 (eighteen years ago)
Depends on how you weight "goodness", though, Que. When you consider Quality of Life measured across all the hours that you have something on your head being hot, in your way, all the various discomforts...versus the probably-pretty-small chance of having the kind of accident we're talking about here -- I mean, people choose to wear helmets based on their own assessment of the chances of it being beneficial. They could be completely wrong in their emotional assessment, or maybe they just weight the day-to-day quality of their cycling time differently than you would.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:31 (eighteen years ago)
xpost, I have no idea if people wear helmets in Norway, actually. No one does in Holland, Denmark or Sweden though.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:33 (eighteen years ago)
Depends on how you weight "goodness", though, Que.
I guess for me goodness=my brain works. Helmets are uncomfortable, but a head injury would, you know, suck.
― Mr. Que, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:33 (eighteen years ago)
Yeah but in terms of frequency it's not a 1:1 comparison.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:33 (eighteen years ago)
A study of cycling in major streets of Boston, Paris and Amsterdam illustrates the variation in cycling culture: Boston had far higher rates of helmet-wearing (32% of cyclists, versus 2.4% in Paris and 0.1% in Amsterdam), Amsterdam had a far higher numbers of cyclists (242 passing bicycles per hour, versus 74 in Paris and 55 in Boston)
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:34 (eighteen years ago)
and i realize that a helmet does not solve all my problems while riding in traffic, but every little bit helps, right?
― Mr. Que, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:35 (eighteen years ago)
It's paternalism vs anti paternalism innit, and I'm generally anti. Seatbelt legislation seems uncontroversial 'cause it's an obvious health benefits win over a virtually non-existent comfort loss. Bike helmets is a much thornier issue. When I see cyclists, especially inexperienced ones, in London traffic without them I think "you tools" - but I wouldn't want to arrest them or stop them cycling.
― ledge, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:35 (eighteen years ago)
Comparions of helmet use in cities is pretty apples vs coconuts, I think, considing all the levels of driver behavior toward non-drivers, city infrastructure designed to accomodate cyclists, etc.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:35 (eighteen years ago)
Comparions of helmet use in cities is pretty apples vs coconuts
I agree! I don't think that helmets should be mandatory, I just think it is very obvious that they are good things!
Also, the study caek linked to says this:
"Deaths and injuries in the Netherlands could be further reduced if Dutch bicyclists wore helmets and used lights at night."
http://www.aaafoundation.org/pdf/bikeuse_PBA.pdf
― Mr. Que, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:39 (eighteen years ago)
xpost, Yeah, I agree. My point is that maybe we should work on all that cultural and environmental stuff in cities where not many people cycle because of its perceived dangerousness, rather than shame cyclists into wearing helmets, which may actually make things worse for the population as a whole (fewer healthy cyclists, more accidents), even while helping to protect those that do get into accidents.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:40 (eighteen years ago)
Man forget people who cycle without helmets, people who cycle without lights are absolute total and utter douchebags.
― ledge, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:41 (eighteen years ago)
Yes.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:43 (eighteen years ago)
Yes. Well, I only have a red blinker for the back. I shd prob get a white light for the front as well, esp since it gets dark earlier now.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:44 (eighteen years ago)
Also people who go the wrong way in the bike lane, or even worse in that 18" you have between the cars and the potholes.
I saw a lot of that this weekend.
I got a ticket for no lights years ago. They were operating an amnesty scheme which meant that if I went to the police station with a new set of lights and a receipt to show I had bought some then they waived the fine. I bought some, they waived the fine, and I've used lights ever since. Thames Valley Police = OK guys.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:45 (eighteen years ago)
There's also the fact that Amsterdam has a more pedestrian/cycle friendly layout than, say, Boston! I mean, riding down Michigan Avenue != cruising along a fucking canal or in a bike lane!
Also, apples to oranges w/r/t seatbelts and helmets: seatbelts come as equipment on a car, whereas helmets are purchased afterwards. one is required of manufacturers, the other would, in theory, be required of consumers. different standards.
xp lights essential (perhaps more essential), bikes wrong way in bike lanes get a punch in the face
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:47 (eighteen years ago)
well, sort of: i've deinfitely done it, and still do, but only when there's no oncoming traffic (ie- crossing the street to pull up to the curb). what's most annoying are people who blithely think that the bike lane is SUPPOSED to be two way, and don't seem even remotely apologetic about making you move out into traffic in order to go around them.
i usually say something rude :-/
...unless it's a pretty lady
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:48 (eighteen years ago)
i gently chastised an elderly lady today for not keeping to the left on the on-pavement cycle path. She was going in the logical direction of traffic and seemed kind of weirded out and unable to deal with the fact that people were coming in the other direction. She wasn't that old.
― ledge, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:53 (eighteen years ago)
Haha I "OH JESUS"ed at a few people this wkend. Mostly peds, a few other cyclists, who were honestly being really stupid. If you were driving you woudln't pull out without looking in the direction of APPROACHING TRAFFIC, you all-time moron. Do not get on the bike path/bridge without even GLANCING behind you. And while I'm on the subject, having two people in your cycling party doesn't give you the right to take up BOTH sides of the lane. Scoot the hell over. You can tell your wife how to shift gears after I pass you.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 21:54 (eighteen years ago)
People seem to lose all road sense as soon as they get off the actual road. i guess if you're a ped, a few bikes nearby isn't quite as mind-focusing as a ton of steel going at 30 mph. But cyclists? You're still obviously in control of a vehicle.
― ledge, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:01 (eighteen years ago)
PACELINES.
STAY ON YR LINE.
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:03 (eighteen years ago)
I'm fairly sure I'd be a vegetable or worse if I wasn't wearing a helmet when I was hit by a car a couple of years ago. But that was a fairly major highway.
Also another time I was hit by a car at a t-intersection because it was dusk-ish and I only had a back light on, and not a front one. So I consequently bought a fuck-off bright cateye front light..And obvies I wear a helmet always. All the half-decent roadie-oriented helmets nowadays are excellently designed re ventilation anyway.
― W4LTER, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:04 (eighteen years ago)
A lady and her daughter stepped out into the bike lane from behind a parked car on Flatbush Ave when traffic (incl ME) had a green light, and when I yelled "EXCUSE ME" to give them a heads-up, she was snotty to me about almost running them over. Next time I won't swerve.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:10 (eighteen years ago)
need to get those spinny blades on yr hubs, dudes
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:11 (eighteen years ago)
The hasids in South Wburg are INSANE about treating the roadway like their living room, old people and babies crossing the street every which way and even walking ALONG it, like PARALLEL to the sidewalk, but somehow they prefer being in the street to off of it. Srsly I cannot account for the totally head-case behavior of those peds. But at least they're not shitty to you when you have to shout 'em out of the way.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:13 (eighteen years ago)
max has a theory about property values/crime rates and how slowly people cross the street
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:16 (eighteen years ago)
Perhaps max would like to share it with ILX?
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:18 (eighteen years ago)
One thing you quickly learn is that peds and drivers do not fuck with you if you're in a bunch of about 4 or more.
― W4LTER, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:19 (eighteen years ago)
It's like the minyan of cycling.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:19 (eighteen years ago)
oh, it's just that, in chicago, the shadier a neighborhood gets, people walk across the street more slowly, and with a more casual disregard to the flow of traffic.
anecdotal evidence would tend to support this.
driving through lawndale it was like people were literally just hanging out in the middle of the street.
xp no it's a peloton, laurel, duh
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:21 (eighteen years ago)
According to one source, the probability of an individual cyclist being struck by a motorist declines with the 0.6 power of the number of cyclists on the road
p.s. I am eating three hot dogs.
― caek, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:22 (eighteen years ago)
xpost slipstreaming is not as necessary in the city, I find
― kenan, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:23 (eighteen years ago)
^^^ that would tend to confirm the amsterdam thing? xp
it is when you racing!
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:24 (eighteen years ago)
actually, fuck it, i found slipstreaming to be very very useful the other night just going to the bar: it was unbelievably windy, so me and my friend took turns pulling each other into the wind.
IIRC, in the news a year or two ago there was a South African cyclist who was charged with murder for defending himself against would-be muggers.
Having to go for a spin in yr lycra with yr hand gun. Wau.
― W4LTER, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:25 (eighteen years ago)
xpost hm. Never tried it!
― kenan, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:25 (eighteen years ago)
one of those stupid chicago winds where it manages to be a headwind in the two cardinal directions you need to make it to your destination.
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:25 (eighteen years ago)
That's like walking four miles to the one-room schoolhouse uphill both ways.
― Laurel, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:26 (eighteen years ago)
Cycling has become a popular sport in South Africa. However, its practitioners regularly get shot at by gangs of black youths in the street, so that many of them carry guns and knives for self-defence on their bicycles. Members of the Johannesburg mountain-bike club were outraged a while ago when two cyclists, Scott and Lloyd Griffith, were charged with murder after an armed battle with their four black assailants, one of whom succumbed to his wounds.
― W4LTER, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:26 (eighteen years ago)
buddy of mine lived in joberg for a while and said that no one EVER stopped at traffic lights, for fear of getting a radiator thrown through the windshield.
he told me a story of some woman who was approached by a black dude at a stop light (a beggar, it turned out) and she just shot him, stone cold and w/o warning, and drove off. they tracked her down, but no charges were pressed.
― river wolf, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:28 (eighteen years ago)
That's really fucked.
― W4LTER, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:31 (eighteen years ago)
even i am not too cool for a helmet. protect ya neck, fools.
― cutty, Monday, 8 October 2007 22:31 (eighteen years ago)
Also people who go the wrong way in the bike lane,
-- Laurel, Monday, October 8, 2007 9:44 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link
bikes wrong way in bike lanes get a punch in the face
-- river wolf, Monday, October 8, 2007 9:47 PM (1 hour ago)
damn straight. wtf is it with these poeple who do not understand the concept of a contraflow bike lane? dude it is very simple. this street is a one-way street. they want to make it two-way for cyclists. it is already a pretty narrow street so there is this tiny one-bike-width lane for cyclists going against the flow of most of the traffic.
ARGH. there are 2 really annoying examples of this just near to each other on one of my routes into town, the one on chadwell st and the one on margery st, both just by angel. ok the one on chadwell st is v short, like 5 metres, and if you wanted desperately to cut 0.4 of a second off your commute to work then at least you would know before you started that you def wouldn't meet another bike coming the other way, but the margery st one wtf? the contraflow lane is uphill and it is separated by concrete. you'd think the orientation of the bikes painted on the paths would be a hint, but noo.
― emsk, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 00:50 (eighteen years ago)
We don't have "contraflow", bike lanes go the same direction as traffic. So it's basically turning the wrong way down a one-way street.
― Laurel, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:02 (eighteen years ago)
^^^THIS
yeah, i was confused for a bit there.
i don't understand why people do it (for like blocks and blocks at a time). i think it's because they're afraid of city streets, and want cars to see them. which is stupid, because they can see you just as well from behind AND you don't have to watch them come barreling at you.
― river wolf, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:11 (eighteen years ago)
Well to be fair sometimes it's a pain to go the extra 1-3 blocks out of the way, esp if you're cruising up and down the neighborhood (ie a teenager looking for your friends/at girls) or your destination is ON the one-way street. Sometimes...people who've grown up in the city traffic are so un-fazed by it that they really don't care -- I got shown up by hot-shot kids yesterday running lights that I stopped for!
And yeah, some people are just noobs and when blocks are on a grid it's no big deal, but lots of places in Bklyn or Lower Manhattan you don't know where you're going to end up if you detour so I can kind of understand that. Plus there's one intersection in Greenpoint where I routinely forget that a certain street turns one-way out of nowhere.
Still, it's unsafe and a pain in the ass, and when things are tight it makes me feel v v face-punchey.
― Laurel, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:21 (eighteen years ago)
There is a road near where I live where it's one-way for cars and two-way for cyclists. And it's a v posh neighbourhood so there are fucks out walking their dogs and hot people going for jogs and rollerblading and shit all over the bike lanes, I once (accidentally) shoulderbarged this girl who was jogging while I was pedalling. She squarely shat herself. But I think she was ok. It was fairly embarrassing, but not really my fault.
― W4LTER, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:22 (eighteen years ago)
you hit her and didn't stop to see if she was okay?
― hstencil, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:28 (eighteen years ago)
I did stop. She was still standing and she seemed uninjured but really freaked out. I apologised profusely and she said she was ok.
― W4LTER, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:30 (eighteen years ago)
did she really shit herself
― river wolf, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:31 (eighteen years ago)
WW2 Army surplus helmet as bike helmet c/d?
― S-, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:33 (eighteen years ago)
no. xpost
― W4LTER, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:33 (eighteen years ago)
u should have started hitting on her
― deej, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:35 (eighteen years ago)
He did hit her!
― S-, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:40 (eighteen years ago)
i have stopped being mad about a lot of things re: biking in city
― rrrobyn, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:46 (eighteen years ago)
it was like making my jaw hurt
― rrrobyn, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:48 (eighteen years ago)
I'm getting closer to actually yelling at cars/people, it's so unlike me! First I just thought it, then I said it but only to myself, now I sort of hope their windows are open so they can hear me.
― Laurel, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 01:52 (eighteen years ago)
I started wearing a helmet all the time after getting to know a woman whose brother had a severe bike related head injury. He was outwardly fine but his entire personality changed - he was irresponsible, could no longer hold a job, pay his bills, handle his own business, or, most importantly, make logical and rational decisions. His sister and mom basically took care of him and it was a huge drain on them emotionally.
Then he did something really stupid - he thought it would be cool to go out onto a breakwall at the beach during a massive storm. The lack of decision-making ability probably made this seem like a good idea, and he was swept into Lake Superior and died. They didn't find his body for a couple weeks, during which time his sister was a fucking wreck.
So yeah, I love my wife and family and friends and wouldn't want them to have to deal with that kind of shit when I could just wear a helmet while biking. It really doesn't seem like that big a deal in comparison.
― joygoat, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 06:59 (eighteen years ago)
They are going to quick to hear you, I needed to turn right across a busy road in order leave the road and this car kept slowing down to let me go in front of him, I was yelling at him to just go past because I couldn't see behind him and someone could overtake him.
But he just kept slowing down and then when he eventually passed me he was leaning on the horn and swearing at me.
― Jarlrmai, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 08:56 (eighteen years ago)
i got in a MASSIVE fight with a bus driver last week
i quite needed to do some shouting so i sort of enjoyed it
― emsk, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 11:21 (eighteen years ago)
I need a proper helmet so that i don't look like a middle-aged doofus like my dad or dubya. Affordable suggestions please.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41381000/jpg/_41381382_bushbeijing_ap203x250b.jpg
no
and
http://images.buzzillions.com/images_products/08/79/bell_slant_bike_helmet_reviews_544099_300.jpg
― kingfish, Wednesday, 27 August 2008 17:03 (seventeen years ago)
get a pro-tec or something
― gbx, Wednesday, 27 August 2008 17:13 (seventeen years ago)
I have this guy in matte.
― libcrypt, Wednesday, 27 August 2008 17:18 (seventeen years ago)
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/3296/imageuploadimagezb3.jpg
― libcrypt, Wednesday, 27 August 2008 17:20 (seventeen years ago)
Fewer louvres also means plenty of space for stickers of e.g. this dude:
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8918/imageuploadimagedt2.jpg
― libcrypt, Wednesday, 27 August 2008 17:23 (seventeen years ago)
Brains: C/D?
― cutty, Wednesday, 27 August 2008 17:24 (seventeen years ago)
I wear my helmet when I take my morning shit at work btw.
― libcrypt, Wednesday, 27 August 2008 17:27 (seventeen years ago)
i wanted one of those nice-looking bell ones but my head is too big!
anyway, all-time classic even tho 90% of my friends don't bother :(
knew a dude who died a couple of years ago cuz he wasnt wearing.
― s1ocki, Wednesday, 27 August 2008 17:31 (seventeen years ago)
the indy's cycleblog had something on cycle helmets that don't look like cycle helmets today.
― Joris Stereo, Wednesday, 27 August 2008 17:40 (seventeen years ago)
i have a catlike whisper pro in carbon/red/white
― cutty, Wednesday, 27 August 2008 17:42 (seventeen years ago)
I just cycle slowly and hope for the best.
― The Real Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 28 August 2008 16:03 (seventeen years ago)
do you ask all the cars around you to drive slowly too?
― s1ocki, Thursday, 28 August 2008 16:14 (seventeen years ago)
I don't understand all the hand-wringing over the aesthetics of the modern bicycle helmet. Just go to the local bike shop, find one that fits and buy it. Then wear it.
― Super Cub, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:06 (seventeen years ago)
should be made mandatory. then we'd all have to wear them no matter how silly they look.
― Thomas, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:10 (seventeen years ago)
i thought they didn't sell catlike in the states anymore?
― gbx, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:12 (seventeen years ago)
i've seen a definite increase in helmet-wearing in montreal, but still, most people not wear them i'm sure that if the skate-type helmet were more widely available with more vents then more people wld wear, but at the same time it's not a purely fashion/aesthetic issue necessarily, but a 'i'm not a child, i can ride a bike with enough competence to not need to wear safety gear' (i have heard this argument and ones like it quite a bit)
― rrrobyn, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:20 (seventeen years ago)
me, i, uh, currently decline to comment
― rrrobyn, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:21 (seventeen years ago)
I just started biking to work this week, about 17 miles round trip, and I cannot imagine driving through this traffic without a helmet. Unthinkable.
― Pancakes Hackman, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:22 (seventeen years ago)
i wear a helmet for everything except going to the local grocery store, which is probably a bad idea because there are plenty of taxis bbetween here nad there
― Will M., Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:26 (seventeen years ago)
CLASSIC CLASSIC CLASSIC
I would appreciate if all my ILX buddies wore them consistently, as I don't want any of you to die, or live a Rear Window life except you can't be suspicious or interesting as you're a vegetable drooling your can of Ensure all over your blanket.
― Abbott, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:29 (seventeen years ago)
ok fine i also need to buy new handlebar grip things b/c mine disintegrated and are taped up with green electrical tape from teh dollar store
― rrrobyn, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:35 (seventeen years ago)
get a helmet rrrobyn
― gbx, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:36 (seventeen years ago)
i implore you
― gbx, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:37 (seventeen years ago)
i promise that i will tomorrow after work also a better set of lights this is all esp important for autumn, i realize, b/c it's already getting dark earlier
― rrrobyn, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:41 (seventeen years ago)
i am a very very defensive-driving cyclist btw, and half my commute is on a bike path that isn't even on a road, but i know that doesn't count for much when riding through crazy traffic land
― rrrobyn, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:43 (seventeen years ago)
also, because bike path cyclists are primarily of two kinds - newbs who weave and go too slowly and generally believe they are in their own little bubble, or super fast lycra-suited i-am-serious-cyclist people (then there are people like me who are just trying to get to work) - bike paths are actually kinda full of dangers.
― rrrobyn, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:46 (seventeen years ago)
i'm convincing myself here, ok
― rrrobyn, Thursday, 28 August 2008 17:47 (seventeen years ago)
I got an alien-style white/grey Trek helmet that the saleslady recommended to me. The shiny aluminum dome one looked kind of cooler, but I was so out of my element I just capitulated to the lady's advice. I was surprised by how light it is. After I put it on I didn't even think about it. I would rather not have a helmet, because it doesn't really match my bike style (!) but as a new rider, I guess I will use it. Also, it kept my head dry doing the massive rainstorm.
― Virginia Plain, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 15:30 (sixteen years ago)
Awesome post:
― Abbott, Thursday, August 28, 2008 1:29 PM (9 months ago) Bookmark
― lol? I nearly wtb 1 (Pillbox), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 15:41 (sixteen years ago)
hmmmm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07o-TASvIxY
― sons of plutarchy (will), Thursday, 6 June 2013 18:49 (twelve years ago)
interesting. i wish he delved more thoroughly into the research that said that bike helmets make riding bikes more dangerous, he kind of made that claim and then moved on. like, why do helmets make people more likely to experience brain injury? and if this is the case, why do professional cyclists on the tour de france etc. wear helmets?
― Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:17 (twelve years ago)
i have cracked two helmets in half going over the bars. classic.
― the late great, Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:20 (twelve years ago)
There was a good article in the most recent Bicycling magazine about helmets and safety, and the fact that even though bike ridership is way up, skull fractures and other traumatic injuries are down, but concussions are up. It attributes it to exactly what helmets can do, can't do, and are required to do; and delves into research being done into two-stage helmets that will protect against concussion/brain injury. It's online for free now: http://www.bicycling.com/senseless/
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:21 (twelve years ago)
i don't wear one because my motto is, as it has always been, that there is nothing more important than looking cool. however, i think the lecturer in that video was being dishonest, conflating the negative impact helmet awareness advertising has on the number of people who want to ride bikes with the actual efficacy of helmets.
― Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:23 (twelve years ago)
i used to not wear helmets until i got into two accidents where i flipped off my bike. after that i never go out without one ... i remember there was a kid in my highschool class who flipped off his skateboard without a helmet and suffered pretty serious brain damage. it's a real life case of "he was never the same after the accident". concussions can't be bad as that.
― Spectrum, Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:23 (twelve years ago)
A friend of mine got into an accident a year or so ago. Want wearing a helmet. Basically has no memory of that week.
― how's life, Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:25 (twelve years ago)
Wasn't
Phil, I was just coming here to post that article.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:27 (twelve years ago)
It's a really enlightening article!
I always wear a helmet, if for no other reason than that I have a particular rearview mirror I like and it's attached to my helmet.
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:28 (twelve years ago)
My take: I cycle a lot and over the last 25 years usually have one crash or accident or something per year. Twice I have gone right over the bars and landed on my head. I'd rather crash with a helmet on.
― everything, Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:32 (twelve years ago)
Not wearing a helmet is probably the absolute dumbest thing you can do as a cyclist.
W/o having watched that whole thing or hearing exactly what he's referencing I have read statistics/studies that show that cars act more aggressive or give less of a "safety cushion" to cyclists w/ helmets vs ones w/o which may increase like likelihood of being hit or something (is that what he's referencing?) but overall it is unfathomable to me that wearing a helmet will jeopardize your long-term health or make head injuries worse or something if you get into an accident. Looking cool is only a priority if you're fucking alive.
I'm willing to bet a good deal of no-helmet-wearing stems from a perceived invincibility, like "oh this won't happen to me bcz I am a good cyclist", which is p idiotic bcz no one fucking intends to or anticipates getting into accidents, also drivers can be so stupid and oblivious, and if you actually realized what can and will happen to you if someone runs a stop sign or doors or right hooks you or whatever and you fall off of your bike and hit your head, things like "I need strangers on the street to think I am not a loser" or "It's very important that my hair doesn't get messed up" would seem as trivial as they actually are
Everyone wear a fucking helmet, jeez
― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:37 (twelve years ago)
I have to say that whenever I have crashed I've done it with enough momentum that I've been glad of the helmet. One could take as the message from that article ride faster, crash harder and your helmet will work properly.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:38 (twelve years ago)
While we're at it, if you're cycling at night, you need front and rear lights. This is not a question.
― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:40 (twelve years ago)
if you are riding on the road you should have a rear light on at all times
― now is not the time for motorboating (dandydonweiner), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:40 (twelve years ago)
I have to disagree with you stevie. The best way not to get a concussion or a brain injusry is to not come off your bike. To your point though you can't control for external factors. Riding without a helmet is a calculated risk, just like riding a bike or crossing the street.
I sometimes don't wear mine if it's hot and I'm just riding the 1km of backstreets to work sometimes further, and I've been nearly blindsided as well, I accept the risk with it.
People should have lights it is utterly moronic not to.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:44 (twelve years ago)
Also, wear something bright at night, give yourself a chance.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:48 (twelve years ago)
I mean to be fair I am coming from the pov of street riding/commuting in a major metropolitan area which is prob only a v small subset of total bicycle riders
― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:49 (twelve years ago)
W/o having watched that whole thing or hearing exactly what he's referencing I have read statistics/studies that show that cars act more aggressive or give less of a "safety cushion" to cyclists w/ helmets vs ones w/o which may increase like likelihood of being hit or something (is that what he's referencing?)
yeah. i've heard it from others, too. i haven't read these studies myself, but like how the hell do the quantify that?
place me firmly in the helmet camp, esp if you're in traffic. there are some 'greenline' paths around here where i've been known to doff the helmet. but i would never argue that this is in any way safer.
― sons of plutarchy (will), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:50 (twelve years ago)
But like there are so many unmarked potholes and street hazards, a high concentration of drivers (a lot of whom just don't "get" how bicycles on a road work), really ballsy cyclists, people who will throw things at you out of cars, etc., all sorts of things that can make you come off of your bike regardless of how good of a cyclist you are.
― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:50 (twelve years ago)
you're right abt calculated risk but I sincrely doubt that most non-helmet-wearers truly have a realistic grasp on the actual risks of not wearing a helmet vs wearing a helmet.
― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:51 (twelve years ago)
i will ride the mile to the rail station w/o a helmet. it's half low traffic dirt bike path, half sidewalk bike path (tho with about 70 feet of vert, it's a significant downhill). uh, sometimes carrying coffee. yes this is risky, but of the 5k plus miles of cycling i do a year, that 1 or 2% is the only bit i do without a helmet.
i've been saved from pretty significant injuries by a helmet at least 5 times imo.
― give life back to old guys (Hunt3r), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:54 (twelve years ago)
One point that has gone undiscussed is that Copenhagen or Amsterdam or to some extent Portland are bicycle friendly cities - traffic is slow, there are well-maintained designated bike paths, and even the drivers are regular bike riders themselves, and are conscious drivers around them. That's far from the case where I live.
I'll look for the link I read discussing this video on a bike forum, but among fatal bike accidents in Copenhagen, a helmet wouldn't have helped in the vast majority of cases, and eastern European lorry drivers caused a wildly disproportunate number of the fatalities, often when taking blind right hand turns.
― Me So Hormetic (Sanpaku), Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:55 (twelve years ago)
i studied abroad in copenhagen and the bike lanes in new york are nothing like the ones in copenhagen, from what i can tell. the copenhagen ones are, for the most part, completely set apart from traffic and they are everywhere.
http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/IMG_0540_lane_inside_parkedcars.jpg
― Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 19:59 (twelve years ago)
Classic Ted Talk though - challenge conventional wisdom with some dodgy stats and come up with something counterintuitive that people who don't have much direct experience can post on their Facebook page. Didn't watch enough to see if there was some kind of techno-evangelism shoehorned in but that would be typical.
― everything, Thursday, 6 June 2013 20:00 (twelve years ago)
^
― Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 20:01 (twelve years ago)
I often feel like I should be wearing while just walking around. I would certainly wear one while biking.
― Jeff, Thursday, 6 June 2013 20:03 (twelve years ago)
lots of ny's bike lanes can be eventually converted into protected bike lanes. even copenhagen was car-centric in the 60s...these things take time.
― iatee, Thursday, 6 June 2013 20:03 (twelve years ago)
if i lived in copenhagen or amsterdam and had it like that i would prob be somewhat torn on the helmet question. where i am? no fuckin way.
― sons of plutarchy (will), Thursday, 6 June 2013 20:04 (twelve years ago)
Copenhagen bike lanes are amazing, nothing in the US even comes close. Really think good bike infrastructure is the absolute number one step to increasing bike ridership and decreasing bike injury. I'm in NYC and there are some really great places to cycle but getting between those places is a total nightmare - a few reliable, clear, safe ,non-bullshit connective cross-town bike lanes would do more to make people give cycling a chance then ten million Citi brand bicycles or a year of free helmet days. Rant rant rant.
― Doctor Casino, Thursday, 6 June 2013 20:05 (twelve years ago)
i agree.
― Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 20:08 (twelve years ago)
exactly. half the problem where I live is getting to the safe places.
Many bike lanes are poorly designed, like the ones where people parallel park on that side of the road and when they open the door it is a beautiful clothesline situation that will launch you OTB.
There is a low level anxiety to riding on the road.
― now is not the time for motorboating (dandydonweiner), Thursday, 6 June 2013 20:11 (twelve years ago)
so true casino. and the ted talk dude has a good point that responsibility is placed too often on the bicyclist for lacking proper safety equipment than on drivers that cause many of the accidents. there is a very strong argument for wearing a hemet, but a helmet alone can only do so much without driver awareness and cycling infrastructure.
fwiw, i do a great deal of cycling without a helmet. it's a personal choice, albeit a stupid one.
― chilli, Thursday, 6 June 2013 20:44 (twelve years ago)
Did any of you read about the Gary McCourt case? Basically a driver, who had previously been jailed for killing one cyclist due to reckless driving, was given a minor community service sentence for hitting and killing a second cyclist. The reason he wasn't jailed or given a lifetime driving ban? Because the cyclist wasn't wearing a helmet, which apparently was considered a critical factor in her death:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-22397918
― dschinghis kraan (NickB), Thursday, 6 June 2013 21:12 (twelve years ago)
I have biked more than 4,000 miles in the last two and a half years, have never so much as fallen off my bike let alone had a crash, and STILL wear my helmet everywhere.
Dr Ian Walker, a traffic psychologist from the University of Bath, used a bicycle fitted with a computer and an ultrasonic distance sensor to record data from over 2,500 overtaking motorists in Salisbury and Bristol.Dr Walker, who was struck by a bus and a truck in the course of the experiment, spent half the time wearing a cycle helmet and half the time bare-headed. He was wearing the helmet both times he was struck.He found that drivers were as much as twice as likely to get particularly close to the bicycle when he was wearing the helmet.Across the board, drivers passed an average of 8.5 cm (3 1/3 inches) closer with the helmet than withoutThe research has been accepted for publication in the journal Accident Analysis & Prevention.
Dr Walker, who was struck by a bus and a truck in the course of the experiment, spent half the time wearing a cycle helmet and half the time bare-headed. He was wearing the helmet both times he was struck.
He found that drivers were as much as twice as likely to get particularly close to the bicycle when he was wearing the helmet.
Across the board, drivers passed an average of 8.5 cm (3 1/3 inches) closer with the helmet than without
The research has been accepted for publication in the journal Accident Analysis & Prevention.
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Thursday, 6 June 2013 21:30 (twelve years ago)
Whoops, that's from http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/archive/overtaking110906.html
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Thursday, 6 June 2013 21:32 (twelve years ago)
that is a v good point of "you need to be doing a lot more than just wearing a helmet (which is not a catch-all to save you from all perils), though when it comes to "wear helmet" vs "don't wear helmet" the obv answer is of course "wear helmet"
― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 6 June 2013 21:34 (twelve years ago)
My brother went over his bars without a helmet in october and is lucky to be alive with only a broken arm, three broken fingers, two teeth out, three days of concussion and ongoing physio, and two rounds of plastic surgery on his face, wear a fuckin helmet
― posters who have figured how how to priv (darraghmac), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:29 (twelve years ago)
thx Phil D
― sons of plutarchy (will), Friday, 7 June 2013 02:10 (twelve years ago)
Knock on wood, I've still never gotten into a collision accident while biking, mostly luck and extremely defensive biking while livin in mpls, which has a bike greenway, a couple really nice paths, and a haphazard collection of weirdly designed lanes that have a tendency to suddenly end for no reason. Always wear a helmet.
― JoeStork, Friday, 7 June 2013 02:43 (twelve years ago)
Sigh. I promised everyone in my life that I would wear one from now on but lately have been relapsing if I'm only going a few blocks for a thing, or just to the train station to go into the city where carrying my helmet with me would be awkward. I know, I know.
― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Friday, 7 June 2013 02:46 (twelve years ago)
I did read someone on a mpls message board explaining that he regularly biked without lights at night to avoid getting mugged on the Greenway (which is a danger, it only has exits every half-mile or so).
― JoeStork, Friday, 7 June 2013 02:47 (twelve years ago)
My subconscious hatred of helmets sometimes sabotages me where I'll be like, "Your helmet is right there, pick it up on your way out the door" and then get all the way outside without it at the last minute. Basically I have to PUT IT ON MY HEAD while I'm still thinking about it, even if I'm not leaving yet. It's ridiculous.
― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Friday, 7 June 2013 02:47 (twelve years ago)
I think it just got drilled into me at a young enough age that on the rare occasions I bike without one it feels unnatural and I'm constantly aware that I'm NOT WEARING A HELMET OH GOD
― JoeStork, Friday, 7 June 2013 02:53 (twelve years ago)
My roommate, who regularly commutes by bike and always wears a helmet (and is a man) says cars frequently pass him at terrifyingly close proximity. This doesn't happen to me, hardly ever. Anecdotally, there might be something to the stats about drivers giving women and cyclists w/o helmets more space.
― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Friday, 7 June 2013 03:13 (twelve years ago)
i started commuting by bike in my city last year and got run down by a driver trying to beat me past a corner on practically my first day. not down to inexperience or bad safety practices or inattention on my part - dude just tried to speed around me and forced me to crash.
there are scratches on my helmet from where my head landed. but my knee and my arm were fucked up for weeks, didn't have helmets on those.
aside from the careening deathtraps all around me, feet away, my commute has a couple fairly righteous hills. it would be ridiculous not to wear a helmet going down those.
― j., Friday, 7 June 2013 03:14 (twelve years ago)
That dick move is the worst kind of dick move, the "speed up and cut u off." Condolences.
― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Friday, 7 June 2013 03:30 (twelve years ago)
he felt guilty, probably looking to avoid police/insurance involvement - paid out a fair chunk of cash right from his pocket!
― j., Friday, 7 June 2013 03:44 (twelve years ago)
a garbage truck side view mirror went by around 6 inches from my shoulder today. the one day in three months that I had forgotten my bike helmet. next time I'm going to just ride back home, get the helmet, and be late.
― sleeve, Friday, 7 June 2013 04:08 (twelve years ago)
I went over my handlebars after going through Holborn junction a few years ago, shortly in front of a garbage truck. Didn't even get the few seconds of "ohshitohshit" you usually get, literally just a single image of my bike silhouetted against the sky then waking up in the road thinking "Truck!". Got up quick and ran to the side, starting hurting, and looked back, to see something bouncing around in the middle of the road. It turns out it was half of the back of my helmet (I was still wearing the main of it), having absorbed and dispersed, as was its job. Always wear a helmet.
On the other hand the time or two when I need to go now now now or I'll be late for something I can't be late for, and I realise 5 mins in that I've forgotten my helmet, have been a near-hallucinatory experience as regards how much attention I am paying to EVERYTHING.
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 7 June 2013 12:11 (twelve years ago)
^^ The few times I've forgotten my helmet, and realized I didn't have a rear view mirror, I've been all, "I'M BLIND! BLIIIIIND!"
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Friday, 7 June 2013 12:28 (twelve years ago)
― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Friday, June 7, 2013 3:13 AM (56 minutes ago)
*Total* anecdotal shit here but my bike-obsessed friend (#1 racing champion in the state!) encouraged me to start cycling to work by saying drivers and others are always nicer to female cyclists. Which...? She advised me to ride wearing a skirt, "then people will always stop for you at crosswalks."
― I wish every slot machine had EAT THE RICH printed on it (Crabbits), Friday, 7 June 2013 14:01 (twelve years ago)
i want to see a study that compares passing distance for those in lycra/kit vs street clothes. i swear people give me more time and room when i'm commuting in trousers with a pannier than when i'm on a fitness ride. i'm sure i've written it here before, but i feel like i really have very few hostile or dangerous encounters commuting in the city.
― give life back to old guys (Hunt3r), Friday, 7 June 2013 15:09 (twelve years ago)
need to try wearing skirt perhaps.
― give life back to old guys (Hunt3r), Friday, 7 June 2013 15:10 (twelve years ago)
I usu lock my helmet up w/ my bike and it's never been fucked with, and I'll carry it w/ me if it's raining or some shit but I've never minded too much
― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 7 June 2013 16:15 (twelve years ago)
What kind of helmets do we all like? I wanted a Nutcase for a long while but didn't get one because I was too indecisive about which style to get, which paid off because I wound up changing my mind and wanting something lightweight and venty and so I eventually bought a Spiritualized Echelon II which I looo o o o ove so much, even if it looks like a dorky bike helmet
― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 7 June 2013 16:20 (twelve years ago)
A Giro helmet at the moment - a big hole at the top for locking the helmet to the bike via a D-Lock is a bonus.
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 7 June 2013 16:23 (twelve years ago)
it's true that whether i'm in a car or on a bike, i think that i have to keep a closer eye on bicyclists in full lycra gear, i assume that they'll be going faster and trying to maintain that speed.
― precious bonsai children of new york (Jordan), Friday, 7 June 2013 16:25 (twelve years ago)
i googled "spiritualized echelon" and an ilx post by you on another thread was the first result, stevie. xp
― Treeship, Friday, 7 June 2013 16:27 (twelve years ago)
lol
― and whaterface (how's life), Friday, 7 June 2013 16:28 (twelve years ago)
I keep meaning to get a helmet but hate the idea of a strap under my chin/close to my neck. In the meantime I mostly cycle so slowly that a topple would not (I hope) send me flying.
― Eyeball Kicks, Friday, 7 June 2013 16:30 (twelve years ago)
An ugly, basic Bell one. I only bought it for an organized ride that required helmets.
― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Friday, 7 June 2013 16:31 (twelve years ago)
SPECIALIZED, fuck, I always do that
― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 7 June 2013 16:32 (twelve years ago)
when i go out on main roads i borrow my dad's helmet, a giro i think. i should probably wear them more often as i have been hit by cars multiple times in my life as a pedestrian because of absent mindedness, but have never been injured.
― Treeship, Friday, 7 June 2013 16:32 (twelve years ago)
The chin straps are really hard to adjust, which is annoying in the winter when sometimes I wear a hat or hoodie underneath and sometimes I don't. If I'm not wearing a hat, the thing is so loose it can almost fall off.
― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Friday, 7 June 2013 16:32 (twelve years ago)
haha "spiritualized echelon" is going to be my new display name.
That Giro in matte black looks aaaahhhhsome
― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 7 June 2013 16:33 (twelve years ago)
my helmet is super comfy and lightweight and the chinstrap is p easy to adjust IMO, and it is cool and breezy on hot summer days. It is everything a helmet should be. Behold:
http://mikesbikes.com/images/library/zoom/spec_esc_blk_13_z.jpg
― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 7 June 2013 16:35 (twelve years ago)
OH and it has a clicky wheel in the back that adjusts the size so you can wear it with a hat or without
― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 7 June 2013 16:36 (twelve years ago)
I have a similar helmet with the adjustable thingy. Then I use this mirror, which attaches to your vents with zip ties.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81lWgebN8nL._SL1500_.jpg
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Friday, 7 June 2013 16:41 (twelve years ago)
The clicky wheel is key, mine has that and it's great. But I also have to add height in the strap, which like I said is a several-minute enterprise that I usually end up trying to achieve at a stoplight with gloves on (my own fault, clearly).
― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Friday, 7 June 2013 16:44 (twelve years ago)
i had like 6 old team helmets leftover from previous years' racing, and used them for commuting purpose. it's been 11 years since i stopped, and after crashes and general abuse, i'm down to the last one (and it's in pretty bad shape). i guess my next one i can get a commuter style helmet.
― give life back to old guys (Hunt3r), Friday, 7 June 2013 18:17 (twelve years ago)
I would love to ride to work everyday - it's a flat 6mi each way, I've tested it and it's faster than my current PT commute - but riding on the road gives me serious anxiety. so many drivers in my area are such dick bags to cyclists, and I'm too afraid to call people out since the time I shook my head disgustedly at a guy on a scooter who had just pulled out right in front me, then proceeded to follow me home (he kept pulling over and waiting for me to get a little ahead and then following right behind me). It was really scary and luckily part of my ride was a bike path so I managed to lose him.
― just1n3, Friday, 7 June 2013 23:47 (twelve years ago)
Brother crashed a few years ago, and broke the bone at the base of his skull/top of spin - 2/3rds of which injury are seen in post-mortems. Fortunately made a full recovery - wears helmet now. It's very sensible to wear a helmet - you are vulnerable not only to your own mistakes, but the mistakes of others around you, as well as tacitly aggressive driving, which is common, and deliberately aggressive driving, which is a lot less common but still frequent + your head is fragile and important! Still the most important thing you can do is make sure you do not undertake large vehicles - it's pure insanity, and helmets make no difference to that sort of accident, where you get crushed or dragged under.
Of course, there's also absolutely no excuse for this sort of judgment, which is completely disgraceful:
"The sheriff said Mrs Fyffe "wasn't to blame in any way for the accident", but added: "She was not wearing a safety helmet and that in my view contributed to her death."
The driver is responsible for the death, not the cyclist and not the cyclist not wearing a helmet. It's a line pushed quite a lot in this sort of accident and it sickens me.
With proper and well maintained cycling infrastructure there should be no need to wear a helmet. If you live in a quiet city, or are cycling with a low likelihood of traffic (and not descending or in a racing group) there shouldn't be any need either. With what we've got in the UK at the moment, and London specifically, which is better than many places in the UK but not by much, I think you're probably well advised to. Poor road surfaces are as dangerous as anything else for a cyclist, and there's plenty of that about. Traffic moves fast and close, and often stupidly and dangerously.
That said, I now feel generally safer cycling in the city than where I grew up cycling, in the countryside - gti boyracer cars, plus huge SUVs and a general increase in the amount of power and a reduction in other types of users on the road, means cycling down an awful lot of narrow, winding country lanes feels like taking your life in your hands, but maybe that's because I don't do it as regularly as I used to.
I am a bit leery of the reports that say drivers tend to pass closer to cyclists wearing helmets. I sometimes wear a helmet, sometimes a cap, sometimes nothing - I know, I know - and notice absolutely no difference cycling in London or in the countryside. Whatever you're wearing, there are considerate drivers, inconsiderate drivers and malicious drivers, and that must play a greater part than any to me dubious sounding psychological factor.
― Fizzles, Saturday, 8 June 2013 11:54 (twelve years ago)