Boston -- Classic or Dirty Water?

I have nothing against Memphis, mind you (beyond a somewhat irrational feeling that moving back to the city where you grew up is tantamount to giving up), but if we're going to move to the South, I would much prefer Atlanta or the DC area. If we move at all, I'd like to go to San Francisco, DC, Chicago, Vancouver, Montreal, London, Berlin, Sydney, or Amsterdam. (If I knew Japanese, Tokyo would also be under consideration.)

Aerosmith now, please. I think the early 80's version (Steven Tyler locked away in seedy motels, emerging only to score smack) was preferable to todays incarnation. Though pissing off the crowd at the Indianapolis 500 is always admirable.

As much as I hate to admit it now, I used to be a Mets fan, and so alienated friends and family in 1986. Though on the bright side, the gambling was nice, I won countless bets and took money from friends and family alike.

My parents still want me to move there. "We know you like big cities, how come you never gave Boston a try?" Because it always feels second rate to me. Sorry, Bostonians. And it just doesn't seem as gregarious a town as New York. Though it's a hell of a lot friendlier than the town I live in now, Los Angeles.

However, it has the big city charm (from the hours of 6 AM to 1 AM) without much of the skeevy element that causes me to despise New York when I'm not in awe of it. However, were I living on the outskirts of Boston, working in some sort of programming capacity, pulling down the mean green, I would be in such heaven. (For a little while, anyway.) That said, I should probably escape the East Coast one of these days and check out US locales not named Bump or Bend or Coos Bay.

The traffic. Where else do people routinely cut you off, then give YOU the finger? Where else but Boston can you find signs that say "traffic lights timed for frequent stops". Why are there so many intersections where the two streets have the same name? And is there a law against signs which name the major streets? Why is everything so backwards here?

Why, why, with so many young people, is there so little alternative culture here? Why are there so many sports bars?

Why does it cost so much? Sure, you can find similar prices in SF or NYC, but take a look at the space, quality, style and the neighborhoods in those cities. People keep going on about how close something is to "Central Square". Who cares? - So you can be near to the Maxi's 99c store, a (ubiquitous) Dunkin Donuts, the Jax liquidation outlet, Putnam's discount furniture, the list goes on. $1400 for a filthy 1br hole in some horrible vinyl-sided 70s renovation in this "highly desirable" neighborhood.

I guess this dowdy puritanical New England town is just not for me.

So, yeah, Bri, visit, ya fule.

First off, I've been living here going on five years now. I've never lived in "Boston" proper--I lived in Cambridge for 4 years (MIT), and now I work on documentary films for WGBH (the Boston PBS affiliate) and live in Somerville. I think in order to love/hate this place fully, you've got to experience all the parts of it.

Of course most of Boston--the rich, snotty parts, like the Back Bay--suck. Avoid them like the plague. Yes, Central Square (which is in Cambridge, not Boston) has become more gentrified..but look beyond Central; explore the outer edges..Jamaica Plain, Brighton, Allston, Somerville. South Boston. The parts of Cambridge that aren't directly on the T but still within walking distance. The parts that are less traveled.

There is beauty here; you just have to find it. And as much as I sometimes think I hate living here, I find myself getting defensive about it. Today in Central Square I ran into a group of kids from Berkeley. They were walking down Mass Ave, and one of them said "Dude, this is nothing like Telegraph." Of course it's not.. keep your alterna-hippies to yourself, I say. Sure, we don't have Amoeba Records, but we do have some fucking good record stores here! I live a stone's throw away from Other Music, Planet Records, Disc Diggers, Twisted Village, and Nuggets, to name but a few of the great independently- minded music shops around here.

So I found myself walking these Berkeley kids around Central Square, pointing at things and saying "See this bank? This used to be an anarchist bookstore. See this Gap and this Starbucks? This block used to be full of great independent coffeehouses." I felt terrible, and cheesy, a back-in-the-day geezer even though I'm in my 20s. But this small-town city is a part of me. Then I pointed them out to some interesting places that they should go. I cheer for the little independents around the city that are still thriving, and support them as much as I can. Central Square still does have things going for it. The Middle East, for one, (with many great & cheap shows this year!), Harvest, 1369 Coffeehouse, etc. I live near Davis Square now, which has got a good amount of independent coffeeshops, bookstores, and bars...good restaurants, and its own modest little art scene that isn't New York in scale but doesn't try to be. Everything here is in miniature, but there's something odd and wonderful about that sometimes.

Sometimes I feel like I'm living on a sinking ship--like this place has had it's day and now it's over. But that's like crying and saying that you'll never listen to an other band after the Pixies broke up, because they were the best band ever. (Mind you, I did this.) You've got to keep looking around for the interesting bits of life. And when I move out of here for good in August for grad school, I think I will miss it sorely, because for as many faults as Cambridge/Somerville/ Boston/etc have, they've still got a lot of good, and a lot that we take for granted.

And hey, if anyone is visiting the Boston area, send me an email and I'd be glad to show you around to all the glorious weird bits that still lie below the surface.

Really, a lot of the problems Boston has could be marked down to poor transportation infrastructure. Make it easier for people to go places and more people will consider going to them.

Hell, Seattle pretty much winds down at 2am on any given night, with the exception of a few later places... and that doesn't seem too, ur, restrictive... Or is everyone in Boston an excommunicatee from New York?

Same deal with OC.

What I define as "shutdown" time is the time where 80% of nightlife retail shuts down, therefore making barhopping, convenience store loitering, and various shopping vices difficult. The odd open late night joint or rock venue doesn't count.

I did arrive there when the weather became really good, so maybe that's why everyone along the way was so friendly (I'm talking passerbys here, not just friends). And the public transportation is good...

I'm very likely coming back for Terrastock in October...

Woo-hoo!

Note too that I don't need to trash other cities to defend here. The great things about Boston speak for themselves. If you want to hate Boston, it's easy to do, but it's also easy to do that anywhere. I know grass-is-always-greener type of people. But if you want to love Boston, it's really easy too. It's a great walking city with a lot of fun things to do.

People talk about the lack of integration, but I don't know how many of you have walked through the South End, where you'll see people from every continent in the world and other diverse backgrounds all on the same streets. And people say hello to you when you're walking down the street there. JP is really integrated too. Or check out Cambridge or Maverick Square in East Boston. Since the 1990 census, every area that had predominantly one racial group lost people from that group and gained people from other groups. We also have the university with the most nations represented (BU) of any university in the nation.

Things close at 2 and it's definitely annoying, but you can go to the North End, Chinatown, or certain bars after and hang around for most of the night. Boston's great in the day too. You're never more than two blocks from a great park of some waterfront, and there are some of the most beautiful skyline views in the world here. Check out the view from the East Boston waterfront, or the view when you're landing at the airport or the view from the Mass Ave Bridge. Walk along the harbor walk throughout the north end and South Boston.

As to friendly people, try really smiling and saying hi to people as you walk in the morning. Sure, many will look away or not say hi. I've tried the same experiment in a bunch of cities and that's true everywhere, but some people will say hi. And people are much more likely to say hi if you're just a bit further from downtown or the touristy areas- once you get into neighborhoods.

We definitely have great culture at a manageable size. We spend the most on culture per capita of any major city in the US. Our Symphony Hall is one of the three best, acoustically, in the world. Our Museum of Fine Arts has the second largest art collection in the Western Hemisphere. Then we also have several university art museums, the Museum of Bad Art, the world's largest outdoor modern art exhibition center (in the western part of the state), and a great sculpture park in Lincoln, MA.

Our local music scene is great. Listen to 101.7, WFNX radio, or the college stations and check out the bars around Central Square.

And it's a city of today. Where else can you find two of the nations top universities (three of the top 25) within four stops on a public transportation line? Where else do you have 5 of the top 10 hospitals in the nation? The largest music store in the world? The largest university library collection (the third largest library collection in general)? The most books per square mile in the nation (Harvard Square)? People who don't need to spend an hour getting ready to leave the house every morning? The city ranked healthiest in the nation by men's health? And the most liveable by some Swiss Magazine.

Then Massachusetts is ranked the second best place in the nation to raise a child for a combination of safety, education and other reasons. This is one of the best job markets in the nation, and has the most college-educated population of any state.

Boston brought you the telephone, the Internet, anasthesia, the nation's first subway, the nation's first post office, the nation's first police department, the nation's first YMCA, the birthplace of two churches, the bulk of 19th century literature.

Then let's talk about people. Harvard educated 7 of the nation's presidents. 4 presidents called MA home. Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X both called Boston home at one time or another. We were the birthplace of the abolitionist movement and a center of the women's rights movement. We are undoubtedly the nation's greatest sports town, but if you don't like sports, it's not hard to find ways to avoid them altogether.

We had the most breweries per capita in the nation at the turn of the 20th century. Today, we have much of the best beer again. Sam Adams is great and a tour of the brewery, including 4 samples of beer and a free souvenir glass is only $1.

We have two of the nation's top 10 beaches, aesthetically, within this state. 3 of the top four liberal arts colleges (including the best women's one). The best roller coaster in the world, according to Park World Magazine (at 6 flags New England). We have one of the lowest murder rates in the nation in this state, and we have been held up as a national example of crime prevention.

We've also been seen as a national example for tobacco prevention, public health, and foster care and adoption services.

This is a city filled with life and on the cusp of more great things. The completion of the Big Dig will bring beautiful parks. We're updating our waterfront, our airport, and our sports parks. There's construction all over the city. Sure the construction doesn't look that great, but it's a sign of a city that's very alive.

We have always been a leading architectural city in this nation, and our building codes work very hard to ensure we keep things to scale. That's why our tallest skyscraper is only 60 stories. We have architecture from 4 centuries here, from famous names including I.M. Pei and Le Corbusier (Harvard's campus is the only place in the nation with architecture from him). We have intricate sculptures on the storefronts in downtown crossing and the building fronts in the financial district. Our skyscrapers show a lot of variation. Trinity Church is considered one of the top 10 architectural structures in the nation.

our ice cream is great; try Herrel's in Harvard Square, especially for their frappes.

If you know where to look, we have every ethnic food imaginable. And we continue to keep the independent stores alive. Some unfortunately are being lost to chains, but we still have many. Check out places like Arlington Center and other small town centers for these. The strip mall is not as ubiquitous here as elsewhere, and we have nice town centers.

Then the history is awesome.

Also, we're actually not as expensive a place for housing as many had thought. Recent census info showed that.

So I have way too good a memory for this stuff. I love my city, and if you have a pre-determined opinion, it's easy to remember the stuff that confirms it.

I think the windy streets bring more life to the city. It's awesome that cows were urban planners, though the signs could be better.

There are plenty of nice people around here. Don't complain about their city so much, and you'll find more of them.

jp

By the way, Harvard's campus, or at least the Sert Gallery and the VES department, isn't in Bosting, asshole.

:) :) Cool...by the way...I may have mixed you up with someone and you may not livein CA. If so, my bad...Thanks and Happy Holidays. :) :)

Dude, most of us aren't from Boston, what the hell?

You may not be..but many of these other folks say they now live there...so that was to them.....get it? Not to you....and if you aren't from there you know even less about the place...yes driving can suck, but that is not a reason for me to hate a city, maybe it is for you....but read through these and many people aren't from Boston but NOW LIVE THERE...I, like BJ and others was saying they could all move back to where their from instead of being Boston residents (aka 'Bostonians') because they aren't that anyway, and hate it so much. I see you are not from there....that was not who the Bostonian thing was directed to...you live there you are considered one...excpet for them....and other than traffic why do you like Philly better? I am just curious?

Me too! Lynn...I love it!! Awesome message!

Smooches to you, too. Taking sides: "If you don't like it, go back where you came from!" vs "If you don't like it, what would you like to see different?"

Puritan, get thee to Rhode Island!

Dan, whatever happened to smug Joker fisty guy?

Less Bostonians.

that, and both Philly and Baltimore have better food than Boston. and that includes better seafood. yes, Bostonians, you read that right. so much for Boston Harbor!

Philly also has a "little town" attitude, though Philadelphians are more justified in that it's the fifth-largest city in the country. And they aren't as full of themselves and their town as Bostonians are.

Tad basically explained it anyway, to take things down to the serious level for a sec, because it's so true. I think it's a freaking Massachusetts curse, thinking yourself very bloody important. This is why all the people on this thread who are not from Boston but live there and think a lot of it sucks and should be changed think it sucks and should be changed. It seems kind of telling that the majority of the people who just luuuuuuurve Boston are born there and everyone else wants to blow it up?

Whatever, the Red Sox suck ass, that's what it is.

Anyway, just to dog-pile on Boston some more I have to mention the word that a Maine-born friend of mine uses in reference to Bostonians:

Massholes

The glorification of "baked scrod" has to be the biggest Boston scam ever. But really, why would Philly have such good seafood? Is it the fish? The preparation? Tad?

Cass I'm really glad you had fun even though you weren't in Boston.

I like the Bookstores records shops etc and found Boston much cheaper than NY for things when I was there next weekend. I found the people both friendlier and nicer (cab drivers and waiters). Maybe this is cause I was in Williamsburg NY the previous 2 days - and that place seems to breed horribleness.

Size? It takes only 25 min to get anywhere you need to go if you live sort of in the city. Compared to living in like Zone 2 or 3 or 4 of London for the same price? For all the time I spend commuting I don't have any time to enjoy the things London is supposed to be so great for - not to mention the fact that London does shut down at 1am as well.

Maybe when I hit my 30's I found find Boston's "young" population a bit annoying, but I certainly wanted ot move back there when I was there last weekend.

what?? the point is that boston *completely* shuts down at 2am - whereas if i want to be out dancing in london til dawn i can do it any night of the week in any of dozens of places! and doubtless the same will be true of drinking come next summer, too.

Well, yes, if you're going to come to NY I'd suggest most anywhere BUT WBurg, especially now a days with all the trustafarians living there.

And yes, London does stay open all night, there's absolutely no difficulty in finding a place to go if you really need to - I defy any Bostonian to tell me an after hours bar there. They've only got ONE strip club you know.

Best thing about Boston = excellent guides / hosts (thanks Marianna!), good record shops, hanging out with the Perrys.

I was pleased to find that it is not the centre of Boston which is made of wood. The brain box in which I keep my thoughts about Boston is wooden though.

I think he opened for The Clientele! (not really, alas)

Favorite part of the Clientele show was when the lead singer said, "Please turn up the reverb on my mic, there's a real singer in the house," in reference to me (???). I immediately shouted, "MORE FALSETTO!!!" He chuckled and said, "Yes, more out-of-tune, rubbish falsetto... Where's that reverb?" He was GREBT, though.

OK, than I'll do it.

Um, the Phillies and the Orioles have won World Series in my lifetime. Which is more than can be said for the Red Sox. Another plus for the Phillies and the Orioles: when their ballparks get run-down and go to seed, they tear them down and build new ones. (same criticism goes for the Cubs, too)

and oh yeah those beloved Yankees and Mets really tore it up this year.

At least the Yankees made it to the playoffs. And I hate the Mets, so I'm probably just as happy as you are that they sucked (and will continue to suck).

I had fun, although I kept driving around in circles at the junctions of Route 1, I-95, 278(? -- the road that goes to Marblehead/Beverly) and 114 each time I tried to go from anywhere. It was the Blair Witch project of driving ("AIEEE!! We were just here!!) But now I understand why New Englanders give such strange directions: There is no such thing as a plain left turn, right turn, or a street that keeps its same name past more than a few lights. "Curl around right" is a valid and useful direction. And Dunkin' Donuts really is a very convenient landmark.

I think Mary would like Salem Willows. Skee Ball has gone up to 25 cents from a dime but it's still fun.

(and i use my amtrak bonus points to buy tix to boston TO PISS ON FENWAY PARK BOSTON BEYOTCHS!)

the yankees are mean bonecrushing robots

YEA! that is the awesomest comment ever!!

isn't that better than a stupid lobsterita?

YES!

sure, i'm up for a boston visit. my schedule's amenable these days. i also wanna go to cambridge and piss on harvard law school!

but november's cool, too!

Anyway, the following comment of Tad's has just come to my attention:

Another plus for the Phillies and the Orioles: when their ballparks get run-down and go to seed, they tear them down and build new ones. (same criticism goes for the Cubs, too)

??????

anyway, i've gotten wiser since i posted that comment and the Vet (dump that it is) is now slated to be torn down ... so i can see why bosox fans would be attached to Fenway.

(x-post ha ha, Tad in Momus "haven't seen it, actually" moment :) )

still, the orioles and the phillies got outta their respective dumps relatively quickly. what's the red sox's excuse? it isn't as if they don't have the money, you know!

Tad, you should go to Wrigley! There are many cute things about Wrigley Field but one of them is that the scoreboards on the concourse are like old signs you would find at a Midwestern high school gym -- they just say "Cubs" and "Visitors" and have the little light bulbs in the shapes of "8"s from which you can make any number.

i rest my case.

Thanks.

(xpost: "other ILXors"=me!! I more object to Ted Turner and that damn Tomahawk chop thing than anything else though)

It comes off pretty much the same to me -- it's all part of the silly "hate the other team" crap that comes along as baggage.

but tep, surely you understand the yankees-red sox rivalry yes?

Obviously, but what's that to do with anything? I don't hate the Yankees for winning.

It's not like the entirety of every sports thread annoys me, for Heaven's sake. I'm talking about one specific type of thing, which is generally a minority of posts. (At least on the baseball threads, those're usually the only ones I read.)

It is acknowledged from the MLB Playoff thread that you dislike baseball fans and that you don't care to explain why, all right! We got it the first time, no need to repeat yourself. Yes I know you a writer/artist from New Orleans with a tatoo or whatever, I've been reading these boards a while, it's not a wholesale indictment of you.

Not all baseball fans -- baseball fans as a group. Like Ally said on one of the threads, that one or this one, fans tend to be dicks in specific ways. It isn't limited to Yankees fans, or Red Sox fans, or etc. And those ways are aggravating.

I haven't been seeing the good-naturedness people are now mentioning. Maybe it's there and I'm missing it. Mr Noodles or Diamond's post? If that's good-natured, I just don't speak Fan very well, then.

That's okay, it's a unique culture, I think. It's just like a role the sports fan plays. "The curmudgeon" is a popular role, as is "the asshole", the "sore loser", and the "person who takes it all too seriously." It's like you can criticize your own family but no one else is allowed to.

yeah, this is oozing with good natured feelings, sure.

If it's just some culture thing I can't get, maybe it's best to leave it at that, provided no one uses it as an excuse to post "Tep is a strategically-placed doodyhead!" and then claim it's part of Tigers fandom.

Usually I would say Boston is full of pretentious, racist assholes and Fenway is an overrated dump.

So, avoid Boston unless I was wearing a Haz-mat suit. Gotcha.

1. The roads in Boston are put together much worse than even DC or suburban Maryland.

2. Nashville has more fun stuff to do than Boston even if you HATE country music, and better food.

3. The only thing I like about Boston, in fact, is Newbury Comics or whatever that place is, which is like a bigger, nicer Kim's.

4. Unfortunately, Kim's St. Marks is surrounded by similar shops full of cool shit whereas Newbury is more like a single shining light in the pitch blackness of bad cafés and hahvud yahd crappity crap crap.

5. Don't EVEN call that thing a subway system. Dear LORD. What is this? An IDM album cover? ARRGGGH.

6. actually, if this thing can wait till December ... 'cause the bills play the patriots on 12/27.

ahem WHO IN THE JESUSFUCKERS would want to spend even PART of their holiday season in BOSTON? Seriously though if you're that much of a Bills fan you deserve whatever you get I suppose. URGHK.

i don't wanna know what tom thinks of philly's subway system, then.

and the jets already played the patriots in NE so that trip's out.

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/pics/crash8.jpg

Felicity should come!!

I didn't think such a thing possible til I got lost driving in Boston.. in 90-degree weather.. no air conditioning.. no SIGNS for the goddamn detours and is there NO END to the big dig or what? ARGH. And I LIKE driving in DC.

Also, why does everyone in Boston wear ribbed sweaters at all times? Explain!

I guess I don't mind Red Sox fans though (especially in RI). I grew up liking the Orioles but they don't lose in an epic way, so it's less fun. Camden Yards is a nice ballpark but seems oddly yuppified for Baltimore. I kinda liked the old Memorial Stadium..

I just sent my mother her Christmas present early: a copy of the New York Post misprint where the Red Sox won game 7 :)

(no it isn't)

It does sound like a lot of fun, maybe it will work.

this is why i don't normally go to these things ... 'cause ILX has so many homos!

I'm kinda trying to figure that out myself.

Felicity, we are going to try to invade and force Boston to unsuck, this is why you should be in on this.

EAT DICK FAGTOGS

example #1
http://www.landsend.com/IMAGES/PRODUCT/80914.jpg

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/Images/Catalog/ProductImages/695P.jpg
uh, no.

Chris V.: November. The problem with the weekend after the 15th is doesn't that cut it close to holidays? Are people around?

Seriously though, I'll go to Worcester just so I don't have to stand outside in late November in New England for fuck's sake. Oh well. I'll still come, I'll just complain a lot. I hope you like whining!!!

I would suggest The Pour House but it's always packed. There's also a Good Life back in the Financial District somewhere but I can never remember where it is. Oh, and there's another pub-type place that is around the corner from Jose McIntyre's (I will never ever EVER take anyone to Jose Macs so don't even ask about it) which doesn't lend itself to seating a large party but is pretty cheap from what I remember. Apparently celebrities show up at The Rack a lot, so if people want to go chuckle at Yuppie Hell I'd suggest there.

I think a place we might be able to dance would be good but nothing too expensive...

yes -the roads are set up bad and the subway shuts down at 1am. Correct.
But….
THE REST OF YOUR POST READS LIKE A DUMB MOTHERFooCKER REDNECK
Newbury vs KIMS??? What?huh? - Newbury the only place to shop in boston? Um, yeah if you are a stupid a;s tourist with no clue ..oh wait…
Please.
This place is fookin indy bookstore, record store, café heaven. (nyc record shops are more picked thru than boston btw…for the most part)
Also: film archives, weekly kung fu filmings on weds night at allston….moody street in waltham has over 100 different ethnic restaurants.
Middle east nightclub drops the fffing abomb on any DC club. What do you have? The 930club or some something? Tt the bears, the attic, the paradise . and so on and so forth.
And yes, boston is no NYC. Correct. Bloody fffing brilliant. The world isnt flat either. Bears sh*t in the woods aslo.
Sorry but your post was mucho dense…

Boston 0, Rest of the World 1.

The real golden stretch is Mass Ave in Cambridge between Central Square and Harvard Square, at least as far as used record store searching goes.

Thanks, Dan.

Also I would like to revise my prior post:

BOSNOT U HAVE NO CHANCE

EAT DICK FAGTOGS

Also, this isn't true. I've been to four clubs in DC and at least two of them were better than the Middle East. Of course being as we're discussing personal preferences in barhopping and shopping, IT'S ALL PRETTY GODDAMN SUBJECTIVE INNIT. The Middle East is one of the most overrated places I've ever been! Dan Perry OTM about how a lot of these things entirely depend on your mood at that exact moment; the apparent-spirograph-cobblestone-road-system in Boston tends to put me in a mood to hate every single store I've ever set foot in there, for example.

FWIW, Kim's puts me into fits as well. Tourist. Trap. For. Hipsters. But then again I hate indie record stores to begin with so your like supposed indie record store mecca isn't really a pulling point for me to decide to suddenly like Boston, kephm.

yeah, true that. like life itself. yes , it is confusing as hell to get around. I still get confused sometimes when in a car...
ive seen hundreds of good shows at the middle east. its sort of a dive, but some of us don't mind.

i was responding to tombot. he doesnt know what he is talking about.

goto Berks shoes in harvrd square to escape the indyfication

oonas is a good vintage(clothing) shop outside of hrvrd square...

Also, PHO PASTEUR! (Avoid the evil one in the Theatre District with the radically overpriced menu, though.)

My worst experience in Boston was trying to get to...the Sheraton? I think? My sister was staying there. We could see it but could find no conceivable way via roads, even using our Mapquest directions and a huge atlas map, to actually GET to the Sheraton. It appeared to be dead center in a labrynth. It would've been easier to get out of the car and just walk two miles or whatever to get to it. It was insane! I was certain it was a magic trick?

xpost: ts: "you don't know what you're talking about" vs "you have different expectations for a city than I do". The hysterical "stupid tourists!" approach is just kind of proving the Bostonites as bitter, chip on shoulder defensive assholes stereotype right which is unfortunate.

You guys should go to Bartley's Burger Cottage!!!! (if it's still as awesome as I remember)

Or Harvard Donut in Central Square)?? BEST FUCKIN MUFFINS EVER

It's not my thing; I expected different from what I received and wasn't entirely into the crowd there. Diviness or not had nothing to do with it.

I haven't been to Bartley's in years, but DAMN their burgers rock. Also, ANNA'S TAQUERIA!

you peeps jsut need to follow around geeta. (from her post way upthread) she knows her stuff.

So anyway when we all come to Boston you guys can all chauffer us touristas around and show us all the cool shit while I stand there disgusted by the fact that you boys's idea of "cool shit" is not "shoe store" and then we'll go to good restaurant and then we will get plastered then we will retire to my hotel room and then set fire to the curtains?

"Also, dim sum at Chow Chow city is U+K."

(Berk's in Harvard Square is an excellent shoe store, by the by.)

Whatever. he doesnt know what he is talking about. who am i talking to here anyways? you are taking what i was saying to him and following it up with what i said to you...

I JUST mentioned Berks two posts ago XPOST
: P

Bsoton is a small city. there is plenty to do. it is not nyc.
seems simple enough.

maybe my response to tombot was what you mean by "so boston". but if you have reads any of my other posts then you might know better.

(ooh I just remembered: Changsho on Mass Ave near Porter Square. They had the coolest matchboxes ever made!!)

yes, there are many preppie yuppie snotty people that are prolly rude to you when you visit. & you hate them. I DO TOO. but there are plenty of artists, writers, songwriters....nice people.

i am an artist, i dont equate my ego with my city. save that for superfans maybe. boston can be mega-rude. so can nyc. any us city i would think.

dont forget , there is more to do in nyc than boston. brilliant!
go bears

xpost: yeah man` twin city donuts is still around

Oh xpost, kephm finally figured out just what was so goddamned offensive about his fucking tone, hurrrrrrah.

um , yeah- tombot was nothing but charm in his list of points. riiiiiiight. so if you are bostonian you cant get angry? only if you are from DC. i get it.

xpost: ally- i do own a pickuptruck and i have lived out in the woods.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I find these criticisms interesting, because so many of them are like...seeing Oxford Street and coming to the conclusion that London sucks, or going to Fifth Avenue and deciding that NYC sucks. Why bother listening to "Jamn 94.5" bullshit commercial radio when there are so many great college radio stations here? Turn that dial leftward! We've got some of the greatest college radio stations in the country--WMBR, WZBC, and WHRB, to name but a few.
First off, I've been living here going on five years now. I've never lived in "Boston" proper--I lived in Cambridge for 4 years (MIT), and now I work on documentary films for WGBH (the Boston PBS affiliate) and live in Somerville. I think in order to love/hate this place fully, you've got to experience all the parts of it.

Of course most of Boston--the rich, snotty parts, like the Back Bay--suck. Avoid them like the plague. Yes, Central Square (which is in Cambridge, not Boston) has become more gentrified..but look beyond Central; explore the outer edges..Jamaica Plain, Brighton, Allston, Somerville. South Boston. The parts of Cambridge that aren't directly on the T but still within walking distance. The parts that are less traveled.

There is beauty here; you just have to find it. And as much as I sometimes think I hate living here, I find myself getting defensive about it. Today in Central Square I ran into a group of kids from Berkeley. They were walking down Mass Ave, and one of them said "Dude, this is nothing like Telegraph." Of course it's not.. keep your alterna-hippies to yourself, I say. Sure, we don't have Amoeba Records, but we do have some fucking good record stores here! I live a stone's throw away from Other Music, Planet Records, Disc Diggers, Twisted Village, and Nuggets, to name but a few of the great independently- minded music shops around here.

So I found myself walking these Berkeley kids around Central Square, pointing at things and saying "See this bank? This used to be an anarchist bookstore. See this Gap and this Starbucks? This block used to be full of great independent coffeehouses." I felt terrible, and cheesy, a back-in-the-day geezer even though I'm in my 20s. But this small-town city is a part of me. Then I pointed them out to some interesting places that they should go. I cheer for the little independents around the city that are still thriving, and support them as much as I can. Central Square still does have things going for it. The Middle East, for one, (with many great & cheap shows this year!), Harvest, 1369 Coffeehouse, etc. I live near Davis Square now, which has got a good amount of independent coffeeshops, bookstores, and bars...good restaurants, and its own modest little art scene that isn't New York in scale but doesn't try to be. Everything here is in miniature, but there's something odd and wonderful about that sometimes.

Sometimes I feel like I'm living on a sinking ship--like this place has had it's day and now it's over. But that's like crying and saying that you'll never listen to an other band after the Pixies broke up, because they were the best band ever. (Mind you, I did this.) You've got to keep looking around for the interesting bits of life. And when I move out of here for good in August for grad school, I think I will miss it sorely, because for as many faults as Cambridge/Somerville/ Boston/etc have, they've still got a lot of good, and a lot that we take for granted.

And hey, if anyone is visiting the Boston area, send me an email and I'd be glad to show you around to all the glorious weird bits that still lie below the surface.

-- geeta (geet...), February 24th, 2002.

Asshole. Writing a nasty post about how someone else is "dense" while calling them a "motherfucking redneck" is just about the stupidest, contradictory thing I've seen anyone do in a long while round here and this place is full of overwrought jackasses (hello GANGS OF ILX) so a winner is YOU.

* lest anyone get confused, I'm not advocating this point of view.

he was an ass. i was an ass. the difference being, he doesnt know what he is talking about when he talks of what to do (or not to do) in boston. i might of jumped all over him, but if you read all of the posts about boston, people shit all over this place. and that sort of bums me out.
i picked out tombot cause it was the last offending post on the thread.

nyc is a small pond? in what universe?

nyc is a small pond? in what universe?

but being a big fish in a small pond makes comparisons to NYC, Chicago or LA even more ludicrous!

the "small pond" therein being Boston, NOT NYC (or Chicago or LA).

i live in NYC now

nyc is a small pond? in what universe?

nyc is a small pond? in what universe?

nyc is a small pond? in what universe?

oh wait espn updates!!! hol don

i know what the fu....1.i dont care about one US city vs the other city. i really dont. i dont get it. dont want to.
2. i dont ilx to impress/pick up the ladyyzz. good luck with that
nyc is a small pond? in what universe?
nyc is a small pond? in what universe?
nyc is a small pond? in what universe?

(you dont look so hott with the ladieeezzz now buubz)

i always thought galaxie 500 were rubbish so i'm not gonna count 'em.

haha this thread hurts my head worse than a hundred dogs (this is my new favorite expression)

and oh yeah re seventies stuff -- the modern lovers and the cars were mighty, but gamble/huff stomps 'em brontosaurus-style.

xpost: tad in the struggle to get the laddieez points up on the board. get em tiger. go stripes. Rah

There are certainly some provincial parts of Boston, but they're pretty easy to avoid. There are far fewer assholes here than in San Francisco, at least.

I like Nashville too by the way. I'm not sure why saying a city is less interesting than Nashville would be necessarily damning. Now Cincinatti, or Colorado Springs, or San Jose, on the other hand...

Back in 1992, I was at Magic Mountain riding the little gondola tram thing to the other side of the park while below me Marky Mark and crew did various dances. I was bemused.

(why is tad copping my moves with the reverse 180 trick flip?)

xpost: ned-you are lying?

and Houston ... Boston is better than Houston. but Houston is just a big smelly oil-dripping swamp, so what's that saying?

One time we were leaving the hotel and there was crime scene tape all over the lobby! Fantastic! Also all the parking lots were full of dealers in low riders just sitting there.

I boycotted FedEx for a year.

What the hell did you need FedEx for that that boycott was for shit, Tom?

Fuck, no.

To Dan: I cannot say for sure, but it is a distinct possibility.

a list of boston bands.

well, I'm definitely gonna go, fwiw.

i've never lingered in boston for more than three days at a time, so i don't think i'm qualified to say that it's a wondrous or horrendous place. or a wax-wane twixt-tween mélange of the two.

i can say that, thus far in my lil' lilypad life, boston is the only city in which a cab driver and a waitress succeeded in making me cry.
then again, i was rather emotionally unstable at the time of my visit.
moreso than usual.

at any rate, i've no desire to return to boston.
i found it to be a doomgloomy place.

I think it's still on?? I have to find out some stuff first. This is probably gonna be a last minute decision :/

I don't think we have any BBQ sauce, tho.

And I have some free bbq sauce i can offer you. But there is a catch...its involves peppercorns.

This is true, actually.

The cruelest catch of all!

Just be cautious.

OK so the 22nd, now you Bostonites pick a place to go.

Dan's shortlist:

Flash's (where we started out last time)
The Rattlesnake (aka Yuppie meat-market, but cheap beer for the neighborhood)
Club Cafe ("I WANNA TAKE TO YOU TO THE GAY BAR!" plus they have dancing)
Jillian's (where we ended up last time; not walking distance, I know)

There are also a bunch of places in the Financial District but be warned that if Jose McIntyre's comes up I may cry like a little baby.

If Cambridge is an option, there's also The Druid, The Field, Miracle of Science, The Plough and Stars, The Middle East, John Harvard's, and Phoenix Landing.

3 Avery St
10 Avery St
15 Arlington St

One of those three addresses. The Avery St ones are the nicer (read: newer) ones so hopefully there!!

Great is the truth and it prevails

THAT DECIDES IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A: THE PEOPLE YOU GO WITH. There is nothing inherently interesting about a place that sells alcohol.

Although now I'm trying to think of karaoke places around town.

re: bars being boring that is soooo OTM and going to a bar for the "atmosphere" and not the people you are going with is horrifying and something that sometimes annoys me about the NYC FAP threads (but don't tell them)

if boston gets a-rod I'm totally going bosox

When the people you are purportedly going to meet are outside smoking the whole time it helps to have a little atmosphere to distract yourself from the fact that your friends like tobacco more than they like you, but don't tell.

I really want to go to Boston. Is Felicity coming?

You should come with. I don't know who else is going but I'm sure something can be worked out for everyone who wants to go? Didn't geeta say she wanted to come?

Can someone come to Boston as my date, please? Carey will be playing tennis with Felicity in England.

The only problem with Jillian's is the crowd, but considering some of the places we go in NYC and the places I've been known to frequent in the DC and Baltimore area I don't think I have any serious reason to complain.

Mary, isn't felicity back by then though? She MUST want to come???

Oh and as JP wrote...we have the best medical centers in the world, leading medical research, and we are improving Boston to beeven greater, every day. I have been around the world, and nothing ever compares, to coming home to Boston. And it probably never will.
-- Cass (thecassmasst...), November 24th, 2002.

BOSTON IS A DOOMGLOOMY PLACE

EISBAR, DO YOU ENJOY WEEN?

/WEENNNERZ ROCks, you seem to be a bit obsessed with slamming on the place and its prolly all in my head & i dont really care but since im on this ILX thing anyways

I sometimes think this potential choice of mine must be true, but that is a bias.

i'm sad that it's not.

they rock the universe.

buckminster hotel is your best bet, maybe? dan is right, even the super8 in watertown is $110.

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Buckminster Hotel
645 Beacon St
Boston, Massachusetts 02215
United States

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645 Beacon St
Boston, Massachusetts 02215, United States
General price range: US$ 55 - 239

Rooms: 95
check: Expedia.com

oh yeah, that area can be a mess if the red sox are playing

You can also try this link: http://www.accomline.com/hotels.reservations/Boston.htm

They're listing a room at the Park Plaza for $131 which is kind of unbelievable to me.

But, I just called Buckminster Filler and they have a room for me for $89, thankfully. What is fun to do around the BF, besides catching a cab to the Ritz?

xpost

(xpost kephm OTM: the Cambridge side of the Charles has much better scenery; it's much nicer to look at the Boston skyline than it is to look at MIT.)

Chris, what's the name of that bar we went to after Jillian's? The Cask and Flagon?

MOFA is easy to get to. just watch it on the orange line, tough neighborhoods just one stop over. are you going to see the DECO show ?

oh and if you pull into Greyhound/trainn Depot and its dark outside , take a cab to the hotel.

xpost

Neiumun Marcus (sp) in Copley Square maybe? you like an extra 20%

WTF, i can type, honest

crime shot up over the summer in the chinatown area. so, if you are not looking to score drugs, and walk confidently you should be good.

The Art Deco exhibit looks interesting, but is it really $21?!

How is the Peabody Museum?

TOTALLY!

Can I walk from the concert to the depot? Would I want to?

You can. You don't want to (you will have to walk through moderately confusing streets at night in a town you are unfamiliar with, plus some of the streets you'd have to walk down could charitably be described as "sketchy").

The Art Deco exhibit looks interesting, but is it really $21?!

Probably. The MFA likes to ream people.

How is the Peabody Museum?

THE PEABODY IS GODLY. It's also sort of hidden; you have to walk through Harvard Yard towards the Science Center, then walk down Kirkland to Divinity Street and turn left down that to get to it. BUT IT'S WORTH IT.

It's also worth checking out the glass flower exhibit at the Museum of Natural History next door and taking a quick spin through Busch-Reisinger, which is on Kirkland.

$21? sheesh, i get into the museum for free.

you should check out the Isabella Stewart Museum if you get the chance

xpost

I wish I was still ushering at The Orpheum; I'd see this show for free.

Kephm, which night are you going to and where are your seats? My seats are somewhere in the orchestra, not really close, but not really far away, either.

i worked right around the corner from there

boston is cool. i just don't like bu students, in general. i lived in an apartment building with far too many of them.

what i love about BC is that it has the best college radio station in the country but NONE of the students ever listen

Better than Emerson radio? Admittedly I haven't heard BC radio.

emersons station is good too though.

xpost

really? you must listen to much more a cappella , bluegrass and gospel

ZBC v. ERS - ERS is a hair more listenable than ZBC can be at times. Although, on average, ZBC sponsors better shows.

Up Beacon Street (over the bridge on your right) from Buckminster is Audubon Circle which has great, cheap eats, the best bathrooms in Boston and decor to match.

Did you see the "models"?

There were some "models" (ie, painfully thin, unattractive women, and I mean SERIOUSLY unattractive, like missing teeth and cross-eyed pony unattractive) dressed up in goofy, outlandish gear (ie, metallic fabric off-the-shoulder-in-a-Flashdance-stylee blouses with plastic miniskirts and thigh boots with their hair teased out to Connecticut) who were strutting around Boston Common near the Park Street T-station and walking up and down Winter St by the construction around the corner from the theater with a photographer in tow putting them into wildly goofy tableaus. It was very amusing.

No contest: Somerville.

Pinocchio's

Dude, getting a kick in the balls is better than Boston, of course Philly is better. I went up there to visit my sister and we could literally see where she was from all points driving but had no discernible way to GET to her because the roads just don't go anywhere but a big circle.

-- Ally (garance8...), December 11th, 2001.

PS, Don't look for street signs, that money goes to potholes.

13 elm st, somerville, ma, 02143

617-666-0677

(although it's awfully clost to the line, no?)

Why is it never time for you to WALK across the streets in Boston? At every street I came to, traffic was whizzing by, there was never a walk sign, and I had to push the stupid button and wait forever. Then, get 1/3 of the way across the huge street, and start all over again.

Radiowise, the only college stuff I enjoyed much were the Late Risers Club on WMBR (some of the best radio I've ever heard, actually), the goofy classic rock show that comes on after it, and the Greek(?) guy who plays 60's garage rock on WHRB. The Record Hospital was very disappointing, given all the legendary stuff I'd heard about it, but the orgies on WHRB are great. I never found anything interesting on WERS and WZBC.

Actually, it's Wilson Square (seriously, I'm not making this up). But yeah, down the street a bit from Porter. (Or Portah, if you prefer).

+ Anna's Taqueria (!!!)
+ Diesel Cafe
+ That other really dirty cafe.
+ JP Licks
+ The Burren
------------------
Reasons for Somerville's continued existence.

Is the other really dirty cafe Someday?

Also, REDBONE'S.

Who are the famous athletes from Boston? The only one I can think of is Marvin Hagler. Did Reggie Lewis grow up in Boston? I know he went to Northeastern.

Boston has the shortest, most inconspicuous MLK Blvd. I've ever seen. Why bother even having one? I also heard something about the Zakim Bridge also being called the Bunker Hill bridge because the Charlestown residents didn't want the bridge to be named for a Jew. Did I read that somewhere on this thread?

above all ... ENJOY YERSELVES BOSTONIANS, YOU DESERVE IT!

South station?

Maybe it was just a reaction to the planning-gone-bad/mall-in-the-bad-sense of Back Bay (and inappropriate attribution back to the real thing in Beacon Hill, which, admittedly, I saw at night and while distracted by a phone). I did kinda like what I saw of the South End, and Trinity and other churches were interesting.

The concert is this one. My wife and I are singing in it.

It was really lovely, but almost fairy-tailish. It's super expensive to live there, I presume?

NO YOU AREN'T.

Ultimately it's cities like Somerville and Cambridge and an area like the South End that give Boston any sort of dynamism (or character). Boston itself? Boston proper?

It's very vanilla.

Although I took a long look at the newer half of the Public Library today and I must say: that's some dope ass exterior design going on right there.

For Boston anyway...

First, Ned, it's spelt Carl Yastrzemski. As great as the Rooster was he is not by any stretch better than Manny, so 70s Boston loses in left field. But: Harvard Square hadn't become utterly uninteresting yet, Aerosmith didn't take showers yet... close call. But I'd still trade it all for Manny.

roxbury dorchester mission hill jamaica plain etc and so on, son.
certainly not on the banks of the fucking charles river during the head of the charles. walk through jamaica plain, brighton, allston, somerville fo yo dynamism next time through

nader OTM boston itself=vanilla

south station= bums, random hookers, construction worker, creepy businesmen

what, the suburbs? pfft

jamaica plain, brighton, allston, somerville : boston :: brooklyn, the bronx, queens : nyc

Just the immediate ones like:
Waltham, Watertown, Somerville, Malden, Medford, Melrose, Everett, Chelsea, Revere, Winthrop, Lynn, Quincy, Braintree, NEWTON, Milton, Dedham, Needham

etc. etc. etc.

what was this discussion actually about? I didn't really read.

but Boston is certainly classic.

yeah, roxbury and all the other parts of town that border roxbury

that's quite enough grit for me

but the rooster wasn't carl yastrzemski and he didn't play left field. he played shortstop. so i'm a bit confused by this argument.

but in any case, '00s boston beats '70s boston at virtually every position on the baseball field, and not just because of what happened last week, but because they are in fact a better team. though i would kill to have luis tiant on the mound for boston next year.

as for aerosmith, though, anyone who would choose aerosmith now over aerosmith in '75 either needs therapy or plays for the yankees.

The Kendall Hotel is in the MIT area right near the Kendall T stop. Other than that, I know nothing about it.

you're not looking for cheap are you ;)

Harvard Square Hotel sounds ideal, really - perfect location (ok, the immediate site is a little weird) in that it's right by the river/HSq amenities/T, and really inexpensive, considering. And you don't need to stay at the Charles to eat at Rialto. The Inn at Harvard might be a little "nicer" but seems a bit unnecessarily pretentious in style. Kendall Hotel looks very cute, but I see no reason to pay more for it. I guess I just want assurance that HSH isn't a dump.

How far to Inman Square from such places?

Also, what about the Harborside Inn? That seems a good budget-conscious choice if you want to stay close to all the touristy stuff - and this is for tourist purposes - but I think Cambridge would probably be nicer.

Inman Square proper is probably a 20 minute walk from Harvard Square; the 69 bus runs right through it.

I don't know anything about Harborside Inn BUT it's right next to State Street??? AWESOME DUDE.

The bus is from Harvard Square? Is Inman closer to MIT or about the same?

Nighttime in that area = Quincy Market and the neighborhood of 8 million bars and restaurants right next to it. If you like going out at night, THAT is the place to stay as you can stagger home without having to reserve $25 for cabfare.

Hamersley's is also very good, if less interesting perhaps, and the atmosphere might be more suitable

Aujourd'hui?

What are you actually looking for in a "high-end" restaurant? Do you want to stay in Cambridge or are you willing to cross the river?

Here are some suggestions for places in Boston proper that I like (may not necessarily fit your definition of "high-end"):

Smith & Wollensky - Ginormous steaks-a-go-go (avoid if vegetarian) located by the Park Plaza hotel at the corner of Stuart and Columbus 3 blocks from the Arlington stop on the green line.

Kingfish - A Bobby Flay seafood restaurant located at the end of Quincy Market closest to the Aquarium.

L'Espalier - I have probably butchered the name and I've never eaten there but this is supposed to be crazy nice and crazy expensive. I'm pretty sure it's French. I believe it's on Newbury St but I'm not 100% sure.

The Red Fez - This place is pushing the definition of "high-end" but it's a really great Mediterranean restaurant on Washington St in the South End.

Brasserie Jo - This is a French restaurant in the Colonnade Hotel on Huntington Ave. They have awesome appetizers and awesome martinis.

Mama Maria - This is a super high-end Italian restaurant in the North End; I don't remember what street it's on but it has a coat-and-tie dress code (or at least it did back in 1994).

Actually my office in Back Bay is kind of surrounded by nice restaurants so I can take a walk around tonight and report back on all of the places I'm forgetting.

If you want to stay in Cambridge there's Rialto at the Charles Hotel in Harvard Square and Harvest off Brattle St, also in Harvard Square. Oh, and there's also The Elephant Walk (French/Cambodian) up Mass Ave past Porter Square.

(xpost: I've never eaten at No. 9 Park but I've heard it's outstanding. I've also heard that Aujourd'hui is massively overrated.)

the red house in harvard square is super super cosy (especially the small rooms w/fireplaces)

oleana is supposed to be really wonderful for a special dinner. that's in cambridge too, but closer to inman. it's mediteranean.

google both, they should pop right up.

upstairs on the square is great for that too.

haha was just going to say rialto and harvest.

I've also heard that Aujourd'hui is massively overrated.)

I've had that sense too. I'm relying on a semi-recent namecheck, but it's based upon an historical selection.

Upstairs on the Square might not be special enough in ambience. But the food is quite good, and it's really lovely for brunch overlooking that square (which is called what again?).

I haven't been to Oleanna, but I remember getting really excited reading the menu.

I haven't been to the one in Charlestown so I can't speak to it. He's got another restaurant on the border of Back Bay and the Theatre District called Bonfire that I walk past all the time but have never eaten at. Also the Ritz Carlton has a place called Jer-Nae ("journey": yes, I know) that I've never eaten at but is great for drinks (solely because they have Absolut Peppar and hence you can get spicy vodka tonics there).

(xpost: Stewart, I think you should investigate Chez Henri on Shepard St. in Cambridge. IIRC they don't cost a mint and it's a cool place.)

Pomodoro near Coolidge Corner, in Brookline. Our new fave.

oh, and is there any really good sushi to be had in boston?