semi surreal casual racism - dud, or dud and it does yer fukcing head in a bit as well?

"waitress?"

There are two ways racists stop being racists: they meet someone of another race that they bond with and get over it, or they DIE.

If you're white prole scum wearing this season's shoulder-chip, I don't really care about hurting your feelings or making you feel like I'm some kind of asshole because I've had the audacity to correct your lunatic ravings in public. Plus, you're also giving me a free portion of misogyny with your racism because you will inevitably be pissed off because SOME GURL has corrected you in front of your equally stupid mates. Also when I hear 'Pak!' as a term of abuse, I've often asked the person what part of Pakistan the object of the insult is from. They are often stumped, especially if the answer is actually India or Somers Town or something. Also popular around Brick Lane: 'actually Bangladesh hasn't been called East Pakistan since '71, you knob. Get over yourself.'

the term "white liberal guilt" is a great signifier, isn't it? out of the three words, only the first applies to me. I don't feel guilty because someone else who happens to share skin pigmentation w/me acts stupid. Not ever, I just feel annoyed because a/stupidity is annoying and b/said person is taking me into their confidence b/c they think i share their views about this MERELY BECAUSE I SHARE THEIR BLOODY SKIN PIGMENTATION.

Plus, what is this littlejohnish b/s world where complaining abt racists is actually worse than racism? That's fucking insane, that is.

Plus, what is this littlejohnish b/s world where complaining abt racists is actually worse than racism?

Not necessarily the same thing, but it can be just as bad.

When I was about nine or ten, one of the other mothers of the class decided to forbid her daughter from playing with me or going to my house because "Kate's parents are South African. That means that they are racist." The *assumption* that my family were racist due to their former nationality was a racist assumption.

That said, I think you *can* assume that someone using racial slurs *is* probably a racist. So my little story does not apply in this case... Anyway!

Apparently according to l'Etranger here, nobody likes a complainer, Norman, it totally fucks with the status quo.

Kate: in what aspects was it worse?

It was originally broadcast in 72 and is thankfully over very quickly, but it does annoy, when it's totally incidental to the story which is otherwise masterfully told and had me quite goosebumpy at the start of the final sequence.

Also when WHYSAB was reissued on Creation, it was called "Love Your Enemies", similarly irony-riddled.

OK, this individual example is not "worse than South Africa" on a scale of racism, but it was just such shocking to see racism applied on a social and economic scale the same as if it were institutionalised. Having racism out in the open makes it much easier to fight or combat. Having covert and hypocritical racism seems just so much more insidious.

mmmm, this kind of middle-class elitism is barely better than racism or misogyny. i am the aforementioned "prole scum" and am pretty offended by this - anyhow, i´m on a deadline so am not going to get too deep into this.

I know that at nearly 40 I should be able to tune stupidity like this out

Absolutely not - the sooner everyone calls racists what they are the better.

I don't understand the association you're making between class and racism. Some 'proles' -- and I've heard that used with such hate that it can never for me be 'descriptive -- are racist; but so are many of the middle class, even if they don't use racist language.

Does 'prole' ever get used except as a derogatory term for working-class people?

(xpost with Enrique)

Argh.

It is Friday afternoon, I still have a residual hangover, and we're talking about racism, classism and sexism. TOO HEAVY!!! TOO HEAVY!!!

I'm off to go hang out on the crush threads or something. Nigel, save me.

The nerve of the person! "Dirty Mexicans" my ass. You're more likely to run into a snobbish and loud Mexican who cannot stand one speck of dirt on their perfectly coiffured hair than a "dirty Mexican". Geez Louise, if you're going to stereotype, at least use an updated stereotype! ;)

No really, though, what this person said is deeply offensive, especially to people such as myself, but I'm not really going to waste my time or energy being angry at her. She's just highly ignorant, and the rest of Latin America isn't exactly better than Mexico anyway, which is at least a "second world" country that is, like India and Malaysia, in the midst of their own Industrial Revolution. "Dirty Mexican" -- hah. "Macho, Posturing Mexican" would be more accurate. *laughs*

Say what you like about Julie Burchill, at least she's called people on this.

Dave's point about people who feel disenfranchised picking on the even less privileged is spot on, but I don't have respect for people who perpetuate a cycle of bullying whatever their parents did or where they come from. It makes me more, not less, likely to label a bully-in-turn stupid, scummy or both. It obscures the more pernicious racist elements in the governing/corporate classes who like it that brown people are even cheaper to run than paranoid working white folks who can't follow puppet strings to their logical end.

I think it's relevant to point out that racism is actioned differently by different social classes in most cases. The rich/influential racist makes policy and economic choices which benefit whites (see: slavery, sweatshops, Colonialism, 'let's call 'em asylum seekers' etc.); the middle classes are the ones in management roles who can't quite see why they have to change the syllabus (or be changed by the syllabus) or give the job to someone better qualified than their white golf buddy eg. institutionalised racism; the working/prole/tabloid classes throw the words around and the blows, too, and are made stupid and paranoid by the better educated and better paid, who become the people electing BNP councillors. They are utter TOOLS in every sense of the word. Obviously there are some examples of crossover behaviour but largely I believe this structuring to be correct.

x-post w. n

i guess that´s what i am!

Class:Cultural:Economic

Bourgeois != 'Middle Class'

But - hey, perhaps things have changed a leetle since 1844?

Norman's post is a great one. it reminds me VERY much of elevator convos among almost universally "older" men about wanting to bend the secretary over the back of a chair, etc and feeling expected to grin and join in. ladies you would not BELIEVE what guys will say to each other about you. but if you ever actually get down with one of them and their mate's like "so how was it??" you'd be amazed at how quickly they change the subject!!

(he said, casually chucking the elephant in the room into the stagnant pol-economy millpond)

Dan - It's the language, but also the assumption a) about race and b) that other whites will appreciate a). It's surreal because it's relatively unusual behaviour (among ILX0rs) and because, I dunno, it seems so... odd. An odd thing to say, since as a racial assumption it's a bit receherche. It's not one I've heard.

Mark: perhaps, but my mum is a shopkeeper with an additional staff of one, who she is related to, so roughly the same as Norman's racists, who if they rent the shop are prob C2 (my mum ownz, but she has the same attitudes from her renting days, meaning she does tend to think all nonwhites come with a How's My Driving? sticker). The only thing owning tells people like this is that they are now 'rich' enough to have all their money taken by the government to feed the Other's crack babies. Working class bourgeoisie: on a wage, not a salary.

I am entitled to harsh on people who share my background but haven't got a clue about race relations; again, they are stupid tools. My anger at these people for knowing no better is bound up in tons of frustration (and having to pick around some pretty entrenched racisms at home where yeah, you do have to tell my mom that classy people don't use the N word but only when all else fails). I'm not likely to go, poor diddums, he didn't have the education or eye-opening moment or enough motivation to change because this is a very simple right/wrong issue.

No, not what I meant at all. There were still some things that were taboo (ie no race-baiting unless you were a scummy gutterpunk whom no one liked anyway), but in general once someone proved to be an asshole it was pretty much open season on them. (This may have been more prevalent in Hastings than in other areas where a social shunning really hurt because no one socialized with people who lived outside of School District #200.)

I think there is a distinction. The more 'toxic' tends to have more immediate and violent consequences. But the subtle kind is possibly more dangerous because it is more liekly to be overlooked and more difficult to stamp out.

Of course your waitress was ignorant, but do you really think your self righteous expression of white guilt is going to have the slightest effect on her?

Like, wtf? 'White guilt'? Not being racist as 'self-righteousness'? Say what?

Eggs-ackley. Suzy -- didn't you mention the Isle of Man? That's even worse there. The reason the ferry is so slow is because you are travelling back in time to the pre-Windrush era. God. Never again.

relates to some of gramsci's arguments in "americanism and fordism". also (obv) perry anderson's Imagined Communities.

5) profit

Can someone remind me what Roger's real name was? I have this fear that I might one day wind up writing/talking about his music without remembering which one is him.

DAD: There we go. The beginning of the end... points to menu items spelled out in Spanish
ME: What, you can't put second languages on an IHOP menu? Guess we had better print the whole thing in Cherokee.
DAD: What's going to have then? A picture of an omlette with UGH underneath it?

Your dad should avoid cosmopolitan, globally oriented establishments like the International House of Pancakes.

It's right there in the name and everything.

Cherokees hating omelettes is such an outdated stereotype

Roger still posts here BTW. I bought his new(ish) band's album yesterday, it's pretty good

what about that crazy Italian judge, who recently ruled that it was OK to incite hatred against the Roma, as he reckons they are all thieves?

lol 'hong kong garden' on bbc beijing olympic coverage

http://freep.com/uploads/images/2008/07/saggychart0709.jpg

lol at disorderly contact

what about wearing shorts with no draws

I want ZS to animate that graphic.

dude in graphic is son of
http://thingsgodtaughtme.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/mr-freeze.jpg

lol 'hong kong garden' on bbc beijing olympic coverage

wait waht, lol

Dude, they'll be breaking out "Mr Wu Is a Window Cleaner Now" by the time the games actually start.

^^^

yeah, that's a real OMGWTF post there!

JOrdan, more like:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u252/TheBraxcave/DrManhattan.jpg

Which explains why he needs the boxers.

MLS player explaining the on-field actions of another MLS player:

"He gets away with a lot of stuff because he's Blanco and he's from Mexico and he's a big name. But he can't do that stuff to any of my teammates.""

COMEDY!
http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/07/dallas-county-meeting-turns-ra.html

A special meeting about Dallas County traffic tickets turned tense and bizarre this afternoon.

County commissioners were discussing problems with the central collections office that is used to process traffic ticket payments and handle other paperwork normally done by the JP Courts.

Commissioner Kenneth Mayfield, who is white, said it seemed that central collections "has become a black hole" because paperwork reportedly has become lost in the office.

Commissioner John Wiley Price, who is black, interrupted him with a loud "Excuse me!" He then corrected his colleague, saying the office has become a "white hole."

That prompted Judge Thomas Jones, who is black, to demand an apology from Mayfield for his racially insensitive analogy.

With video! http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=6953163&version=4&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1

that's got to be one of the stupidest stories I've ever heard. If the idiot commissioner and the judge don't know that that term has absolutely no racial ramifications, then they're fucking idiots.

bogglin' at comparison of "black hole" to "jewing someone"

I think this was posted on the Uncle Tom thread? At any rate, oh how I want to shake these guys.

Price needs to learn the difference between a "black hole" and a "black a-hole"...the former is a figure of speech; the latter describes jerks like him.

Typical black reaction. You have to ask yourself - are these people REALLY that stupid. Unfortunately, the answer is yes, they REALLY are that stupid.

What happened to Dallas? Did they hire refugees from New Orleans to run the city?

No wonder the song "God Bless Texas" is so popular. The state needs all the help it can get, from anyone, including the big boss.

My goodness, it seems that Mr. Price needs sum edumacation vout the compression and densifications of stellar ojcectifacations. Go back to schoo; bozo and try this time to pass 5th grade science instead of making a career avout demonizing whitey

Yeah, there's idiocy enough to go around for everyone on that link.

It seems our Creator was very niggardly when handing out brains to Price and Jones.

Casual Anti-Semitism: Was eating at a local Indian spot recently and got to chatting with the owner (it was a slow afternoon for them). A really nice, funny guy. Talk of the upcoming US Elections. He: "Obama won't win. You know why? Because the Jews won't let him win." I didn't know what to say. It spilled out of his mouth as simply as if he had said, " You know why I own a restaurant? Because I like to serve food." Needless to say, I've found it impossible to go back.

"You should all feel so famous for electing these Bozo's"

Their brothas elected them. But then what would you have excpected. These same jokers also fawn over Obama as if he were The New Messiah, coming to save the world.

Face it, the one's that got shipped over from Africa weren't the Albert Einsteins. Look at the gene pool in this country. They were living in the jungle with stone tools. The smart ones caught the slow ones and sent them over. They were selected for hard work. There are some smart "black" people, sure. But not the rule. More cross breeding will help.

John Wiley Price says dumb things a lot, but I still kind of like him. The worst part of his occasional misplaced outrage is the inevitable response from white talk radio hosts and columnists.

when barack obomba is president
this stuff will seem mild
get ready for war, white folks
the 3rd world is upon you

its really bizarre that two black guys in dallas would be so responsive to the possibility of racism in casual speech

After reading those comments I kind of can't wait for the inevitable white race riot.

Can someone remind me what Roger's real name was? I have this fear that I might one day wind up writing/talking about his music without remembering which one is him.

-- nabisco, Tuesday, July 1, 2008 11:36 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Link

http://www.media.wmg-is.com/media/portal/media/cms/images/200807/waiting-in-vain--cover-art-large_1214935958225.jpg

lol ezra pound

that's got to be one of the stupidest stories I've ever heard. If the idiot commissioner and the judge don't know that that term has absolutely no racial ramifications, then they're fucking idiots.

-- Bill Magill, Friday, July 11, 2008 3:40 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

good time to take a self-righteous stand!

"self righteous" -great call

god if this keeps up ilx is going to turn into a whore

i mean hole, a black hole

ILX has turned into a singularity whence even light may not escape.

woops yeah i just meant regular-righteous
good catch!

Casual Anti-Semitism: Was eating at a local Indian spot recently and got to chatting with the owner (it was a slow afternoon for them). A really nice, funny guy. Talk of the upcoming US Elections. He: "Obama won't win. You know why? Because the Jews won't let him win." I didn't know what to say. It spilled out of his mouth as simply as if he had said, " You know why I own a restaurant? Because I like to serve food." Needless to say, I've found it impossible to go back.

-- Capitaine Jay Vee, Friday, 11 July 2008 20:57 (2 days ago) Link

After some of the tactics the Clinton campaign tried in the primary, this is not an unreasonable point, but should be qualified as "Israel lobby". Of course, that's probably not precisely what he meant.

Most frustrating thing about the "black hole" video clip is that the anchors were too cowed to inject an explicit opinion or to state the objective fact that there is no nor has there ever been a racial connotation to that term.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2008/08/15/460Spain_gesture.jpg

you'd think they might've heard of this thing called 'the internet'

andre agassi?

no - chinese people, i think?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/15/olympics2008.olympicstennis

Racism in spain

So the racism in Spain falls mainly on the plain?

-- jaymc (jaymc), Monday, February 27, 2006 12:41 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

It's seriously weird, the Spanish thing. A few weeks ago I was DJing at our night and I went to the bathroom, which is unisex, where there's a bathroom attendant guy, Simon, who is black. A Spanish guy and his girlfriend were ahead of me in the queue and as if out of boredom they started kind of taunting him and riling him and going "Africa, Africa......" etc.

Was just the most bizarre and fucking nasty racism from people who looked like students, I felt so angry I ended up telling the bouncer, who kicked them out.

-- Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:14 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

proto HOOS

jk but seriously what the fuck is up with Spain

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eim29tQWAAEryRx?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

not a joke. i took that screenshot. you can try it yourself.