Matrix Revolutions

I can double check on this. But you and Steve book away (if need be) remembering your Student Discount where applicable.

It can't be that bad.

Tracer i booked a ticket, could meet at that Swimmer pub i guess?

I am surfing Odeon's shadowy and mysterious website now.

http://keanuweb.com/_t/krmbt001_.jpg

so 3.

these are the worst bits of dialogue in the film, the only REALLY bad ones i think. cut those out and i'd be happier.

second the philosophical bombast

then the actors

then the ultraviolence

then the sci-fi premise

then the saturation marketing

then the "cutting-edge digital technology"

then...

you have great taste in movies amateur!st but i think i feel exactly the opposite! then again i am a sci-fi geek.

um, then I enjoy a fucking movie?

The MatriXXX.

yes and considerably more expensive

http://www.scanartcentral.net/wthumbs/rich_bot_bender.jpg

But the second one had pretty fights! And stuff.

then we told him to go first. We'd follow.

we'll see what happens.

xp: that's exactly what worries me about it nick!

ha ha! i think he (the Architect?) specifically told Neo that they wouldn't meet again, right? seemed like an odd and interesting thing to say.

also, kung fu.

I still insist the multiple-smith thing looked way worse than anything in the first movie

I agree on the effects thing; nothing in the first one looked bad at all! CG people are still not quite there. So I got more of a thrill from the sequences where actual people are doing the work more than the CG gang bang.

what was up with that whole bomb in the building thing at the end there though? what the hell was that all about? anyone have any idea?

this was a security system to protect the source of the Matrix from being accessed by The One. But Neo is able to access it after they manage to shut the power down for just long enough (with Trinity, Niobi and co. providing enough distraction). Presumably the Architect figured Neo would be able to access the source anyway so set up the meeting to tell him what was going to happen.

I was talking with somebody about this yesterday and had the realization that, in the film's context, this is a conflict between two very powerful systemic anomalies, and that the extent of their conflict putting a strain on the system itself to keep up doesn't seem quite so far-fetched in that sense.

(I still thought it looked k-stupid though.)

Suddenly, a bunch of other HUGO WEAVINGS show up. They
FIGHT to VIDEO GAME MUSIC. Despite all of the enormous
hype, it is extremely clear when the scene switches into
CGI-mode.
HUGO WEAVING
Why are you using kung fu? Can't
you jump inside us and delete us
like in the last movie? Isn't that
one of your super awesome powers?
KEANU REEVES
Nah, the only real new power I have
is flight.
HUGO WEAVING
That sucks.
KEANU REEVES
Not as badly as my appearance when
I do my little mid-air spin move
with this pole.

He fights and fights and fights and eventually gives up and
flies away....

but still there was something about it that irked - perhaps just the predictability that you knew Uma was going to kill them all. whereas with Neo and 100 Smiths, he couldn't kill them and he realised he had to fly off - this was bemusing if not entirely unexpected

this isn't as bad as everyone says - he is so minimally stylised anyway that it's hardly belief shattering that it's clearly a CGI render

rockist.

(j/k)

It was supposed to be funny?

Ha ha, good point Ned. I think even the major detractors from the nu-Matrices will acknowledge that they're trying to do *something*, either with the CG or large-form story or expanding this tenaciously balanced conceit that worked well for one film into five more hours. Even the biggest Star Wars fans have trouble figuring out what the nu-Star Wars films are trying to do beyond shift merchandise.

And I say that as someone who still has a primal reaction to Jedi fights!

so otm it isn't even funny!

bah. I call bullshit on this. This is lucas' attempt to dodge or deflect criticism over how his movies finally came out.

Tracer i have mailed you, am unlikely to get there before 7.15 anyway so see you there.

thanks for that link btw Teeny. i watched bits of Matrix Reloaded again last night and I am still wondering who is that guy who glances forlornly at Neo as he is marched past Merovingien's table in the restaurant as Neo and co approach?

I can't give you my number because I haven't got one.

In short, the movie is something of a bull session until Zion's defenders strap themselves into their galumphing robo-battle machines and begin to rock and roll with the invading mindless metallic insect horde. There's a hint of Burroughsian grandeur to this cyborg-against-cyborg ballet mécanique and, at this point too, my notes began to resemble an undergraduate Burroughs imitation: BX cable squid spaghetti static electricity! Machine-gun machine-hell Armageddon!! Infernal orange and blue orgone-light tentacle vortex!!!

J Hoberman, Village Voice

The J-Hoba is the best film critic alive innit. I want his two recent books. Hardly anywhere stocks em but they all have that poindexter Anthony Lane

I love my diction! < /sarcasm>

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This is now an official SPOILER ZONE!

Okay, I saw that other thread, and boy, I think it was doomed anyway.

"I'm going to say something about this movie that is my choice to say. Something that I've wanted to say and will say after I say this. Before I say it it is important to understand that I choose and know why I choose to say what I want to say. I believe I know why I choose to say what I am going to say but what matters is why you beleave that you understand why you choose. It is also important that you understand that I do not use the word 'choose,' only the meaning behind the word...the word that does not mean anything to me--except fot the meaning associated with the word. So now I'm going to say it.... Take the above said add in some kick'n FX and two hands full of corn. Mix it all together and bake it with some hype and you'll have enough Matrix Revolutions for 8 - 10 soft headed guests."

Not as terrible as I thought. Bad enough for me to be laughing all the way through.

Oracle: You really are a bastard
Smith: You'd know Mom

Neo: You're gonna have to drive

The majority of the reviews disgust me. This is a hugely entertaining movie as were the last two. As many great lines as bad ones, far more great ideas than bad ones. Strange stilted slow moving first half balanced bravely by exhilirating second half. Best fantasy war scene in cinematic history. Playfully and RIGHTFULLY referencing countless anime and sci-fi of the past. Neo/Smith battle was a bit too drawn out for me but the ending just about saved it. Neo's battle with Bain was far better tho. The new Oracle was better than I expected her to be though not quite matching the previous one. Merovingien and Persephone were under-used/under-exploited perhaps. We find out very quickly who that guy in the restaurant was (aha). Morpheus did bugger all but that's a good thing. The Kid was kinda cute. The Captain's sentinel-slashed face was NOT cute (fucking ew). The CGI for the machines and the APU battle scenes was superb. The dialogue was adequate and true to form. Keanu wasn't THAT bad. Robot insects are the best thing ever. Hugo Weaving is super as ever (you'll say his duplication was pointless because only one of him fought Neo - well, he's a nihilist, get over it). Interesting notions raised (why is it the machines seem to value and honour concepts such as 'trust' and 'trade' more/better than humans? as both the Machine Godhead and The Architect demonstrate)...several annoyances I really can't be bothered raising because I'm too busy thinking about and enjoying all the good stuff (maybe some critics should try that some time).

Neither better or worse than the other two for me. I like them all. A lot.

But I don't think even Imax can save Revolutions... I came away not hating it, but bemused. I kept finding myself rolling my eyes at the hokey dialogue. And the leader in machine city made me giggle - he looked like one of those toys made out of pins that you press onto your face.

They should have left it at the first one...

he looked like one of those toys made out of pins that you press onto your face.

this is a good thing

Smith's war was with his own irrelevance as much as with Neo. he seemed caught between trying to ascertain new meaning to himself and at the same time finding no meaning in anything else. One disappointment was that with Smith rampant within the Matrix we didn't get to really see the consequences of that e.g. thousands of him running around the busy city streets turning everyone in sight into another him. Instead Neo is jacked in by the Machine and straight into the showdown, with Smith apparently having already taken over an entire city and turned it into a stormy stage purely for the purposes of destroying Neo.

The final agent Smith, Neo fight is very, very reminiscent of the Death Of Superman.

it bothers me a bit that people are more influenced and responsive to the former over the latter. i suppose this is natural as we tend to be more sensitive to the aural rather than the visual. i'm not one of these people who champions blockbuster action films all the time because they have 'amazing' effects (incidentally i thought the quality of effects in this film re the machines and the sentinels matched Jurassic Park 3 for projected realism and environmental attachment by and large - maybe not quite WETA standard or even Terminator 3 standard...but the sentinels had an ethereal quality and it's to their advantage that they have no real life precedent unlike the dinosaurs of Jurassic Park perhaps, but still they blended very well with their environment and interacted with it satisfactorily) when they are gimmicky, and in the Matrix films sure there's a LOT of gimmicky stuff but it's good gimmick and often necessary. of course we don't need to see Neo punching Smith in the face close up and in revolving bullet time, but then again, why the fuck not? i don't expect everyone to start doing that in films now though, and i certainly hope they don't.

What's fun about watching a zillion stupid-looking flying robots blow up for like seven hours while people (straight-faced) recite insipid cliches and do that war-movie yell?

what's NOT fun about that? "i've had sex before but not in THAT position/with THAT person/wearing THOSE things..."

Neo's 'magical' persistence in the Matrix is surely just the next progression of his capabilities - I don't think there's any real need for a specific explanation there.

You make the idea of 'robot magic' sound like a BAD thing? jeez. let's see more cyborg warlocks I say. Science IS magic.

Machine Godhead/Robot King/whatever was fine - what the hell do you want?

Post apocalyptic dystopia is a mainstay of the genre so complaining about it in this film is pretty stupid as well.

Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine!

Jesus Christ, you people are pissed off because you didn't get what you wanted there to be! Accept that you didn't write the fucking thing and just let them tell you the story as they want to! Most of the things that I've heard people complaining about "not being resolved from Reloaded" were either
a) totally irrelevant, or
b) answered in the story, but not to your satisfaction - which is to say to a completely quibbling and/or literal-and-physically-possible-in-the-real-world level, or
c) answered in the story, but you didn't get it.

Sorry, but that's how it is in my eyes. Some people just couldn't sit down and suspend their disbelief. But really, there are a ton of answers and a lot of resolution - just because not all of it was specifically delineated doesn't mean that you can't figure out the parts that matter. So you either believe that, yes, by him going to the Source in Reloaded, it fundamentally changes his interconnection to the Machines (and thus the Matrix), or you don't. So many people just can't cope with this one - let it go. Smith copies himself because he no longer is taking orders from the Machines and is power hungry. And because he's the complete opposite of Neo. To sum up the whole fight scene: 1 + (-1) = 0

Burned out techno-apocalyptic Robot Cityscape. Hmm. Well, what were you expecting, the city at the bottom of the ocean in The Abyss?

Again, sorry if I'm being kinda pissy myself, but I just don't get what you people wanted (or if you really would have wanted that anyway). It seems that you want a bunch of silly stuff answered (or didn't see the answers that were obviously there for the stuff that was answered), you seem to magically believe that there was no cheese factor/hammy dialogue/wooden delivery in the first one, and you were all psyched for a Zion battle that you expected would somehow transcend the entirety of massive sci-fi battle scenes. I believe I wanted to say something else here, but I'm forgetting it at the moment. I'll get back to you.

Was there any question in our minds that the ammo kid was gonna get to do something extraordinary? I'm guessing no.

The funniest moment wasn't in the goofy dialog, but when Neo tried to get out of the train station. Okay, and when Niobe calls dude's ship she's piloting back to Zion "a fat bitch" or whatever.

All in all I'd say it was a really good film, quite engaging and just on this side of the border of too-corny, but not quite what it could have been (and assumed itself to be)...revolutionary.

x-post I'm not an apologist, I agree with Stevem that this tops just about everything of it's 'genre', but I personally am still a little disappointed in the execution. I wonder if, had they not rushed to get these films (Reloaded incl), they might have been something much more exemplary.

The city is clean (I would presume). I don't know if it's happy - neither do you, for that matter. Why should it be well-lit?

BTW, you people all would have hated Return of the Jedi had it been released today, but still remember that despite ROTJ's weaknesses, we still lovably accept it as part of the Holy Trilogy. That was a much weaker film than Revolutions.

I can name a slew of people off the top of my head who will challenge this assertion until the day they die. And some of them post here.

in other words you went to see this film because you KNEW you were going to hate it and you wanted to...

I didn't hear a diatribe about love, just a half-assed gesture toward semiotic bullshit. And Neo's abilities do need an explanation--The Matrix and sequels are positioned as science fiction and I was thrown when they trashed the sf/fantasy background, abandoning self-consistency and internal logic for Robot Magic, as were other people I've talked to. I like SF and I like fantasy and I like chocolate and I like garlic but unless you tip me off right at the start that we're going to be mixing them I'm gonna be pissed off.

well i have no problem with SF and fantasy being mixed together like that and I don't need to be warned beforehand.

King of the Robots spoke with a deep voice with crazy echo. Come on.

deep voices with echo never go out of fashion. it's a black jacket.

Why isn't Robot City all clean and happy and well-lit? It's not like they have Robot Bums and Robot Criminals and Robot Cockroaches.

BECAUSE the machines clearly prefer not to spend time and effort cleaning up the skies (or perhaps this was a process underway but not completed yet) when they can cope fine without the Sun and other niceties. nor do they require much light. also it spooks the humans foolish enough to venture out there enough which works to the machines advantage a little.

And, um, then let me have a hit - God knows I'm tense now.

doesn't mean

Who needs Merovingian when you have MERV GRIFFIN!

http://www.brntwdmagazine.com/may-june-2000/merv/Merv.jpg

Just because you don't like what you heard doesn't mean you didn't hear it, nonetheless.

http://www.utc.fr/~macret/cine/realisateurs/boorman/photos/zardoz3.jpg

No, really.

I've seen hardcore Christians defending it as a Christ story, Buddhists claiming that it showed Neo the true path to enlightenment. Jews have claimed that no, it's an allegory of the Exodus. Hindus, Gnostics, Satanists and Atheists have all claimed that the movies symbolized their own worldview. They got from the movies a look at their own beliefs through another lens.

Likewise, I've seen people who were only looking for an action movie, or who loved pure philosophical discussion. Big Surprise, they walked out of the movie babbling about how awesome the special effects were or how deeply meaningful they found the dialog.

Finally, there are some people who walk into the theater thinking "this movie is never going to live up to the hype, or be nearly as good as (insert movie 'x' here)." Lo and behold, they spend the entire time searching for flimsy plot holes and whining about how there was too much action, or too little action, or too much CGI, or the CGI wasn't used enough, or there wasn't any cool philosophical discussions, or that they spent too much time talking. Meanwhile, they forget to actually watch the movie.

The people in the final group don't even deserve my contempt; their ability to watch a supremely entertaining set of movies and not derive any pleasure from the experience is punishment enough. Some of you fell into this trap for Reloaded; I hope for your own sake that you don't make the same mistake if you haven't seen it yet.

So long as you're not implying it's only these films in particular that act as a mirror in such cases, you're probably onto something.

Also, nice to see that even the architect of the Matrix couldn't improve on good ol Technics SL-1200s

That was a good browny.

Blount I think you are nostalgic for that feeling that the movie was just a LEETLE cleverer than you. By the second Matrix it was dubious. You either gave it the benefit of the doubt or you didn't. By Revolutions we're five steps ahead and like "hurry up, movie!!!"

But please, someone, please explain what happened at the end? Why did Agent Orange blow up? "Everything that has a beginning has a second and third installment..." If it's above, I didn't see it. I don't understand! //stamping foot and frowning// Have I forgotten something from the first 2 that would explain it? I just didn't get it! Forgive me. But help me!

HATED machine god.

Neo and Agent Smith are opposites. Opposites combined equal zero.

Seriously, I hear you, and thanks by the way for the explanation, but it still is missing a piece for me. Agent Smith and Neo are missing the equals sign or missing the pressing of the "calculate" key, to make the math work and him blow up. As it is, it's too easy, even by the standards of an action movie.

But I did think it was entertaining. Much more so than #2. (It's a bit of a mistake, I think, to consider 2-3 separate films. And not just given the simultaneous production aspects. There's not a full movie in #2. That's why the fight/chase scenes are so long.)

"No more bad folks! The kind are here!" (And yes, less than forty days now...)

I haven't seen such a terible Hollywood scything of a good good film in the sequel since the Mad Max series. 'Look at our effects'! And it even went all Superman. And the wooden dialogue, straight off a US TV drama! 'I'm taking you off the case, McGonagal!'. Oh, it was dire. I know I'm talking about the wrong movie btw.

the crowd i watched it with was quite boisterous, and we were all so frustrated by a certain overly-long scene that when it was over, almost everyone in the theater (though not me) began to applaud out of relief. when trinity said "kiss me" about 100 people laughed.

*checks up some random news reports*

Goddamn! Fuck the movies, somebody do a documentary on Larry Wachowski instead.

1) They should never have got the Levellers to design the outfits for the hippies of Zion.
2) The hippies annoyed me, they were no rebel alliance, and I thought the 4 hour battle scene was a bit boring.
3) Meatloaf should have been a member of the ruling council of Zion, this would have improved the film 100%
4) The characters didn't crack any jokes, the only funny dude was Agent Smith. I mean, it's not human to be serious every second of the day. Yeah, I know they were fighting for their lives, but still ya know humour could be a good motivator.
5) I am not looking forward to Matrix: Resurrections. Which surely must follow.
6) It was still better than Matrix: Reloaded.

jel dude, that '4 hour' battle scene is kinda how i envisage the Transformers movie to be like!

The characters didn't crack any jokes

one of the Hammer (or was it Logos) crew did, can't remember what he said tho.

i watched large chunks of Revolutions again via the gift of DivX earlier

*gasp* Stevem you vicious pirate. They went to ALL THAT TROUBLE to trumpet the worldwide at-the-same-minute release to beat those darned Internet users and their file-sharing and look what you do.

I am looking forward to someone in December pointing out that Return of the King's plot rips off Revolutions bigtime.

hey! i downloaded it, i didn't upload it/pirate it myself. and this was after paying to see it anyway. you varmints.

i still think this film is one succulent sausage of an entertaining picture show. i have just eaten some sausages.

Well obviously the equations can only be balanced because Agent Smith tried to absorb Neo? Or something? I dunno, I had no idea that's what happened until I read this thread, and now it makes A LOT MORE SENSE than it did after we watched it this weekend.

I kind of thought it sucked; the Trinity death scene was painful and it basically turned the whole thing into the most drawn out Christ-metaphor ever; Tom was like haha 9 hour version of Tron! HOWEVER the entire ending is totally saved by the really horrible slow-mo shot of Neo punching Agent Smith in the face!!! Every movie needs that shot from now on!! I cannot think of one movie ever at all that wouldn't be improved by super slow-mo punching.

My main problem with the whole series--which I actually totally love, the first movie is great--is that I just don't get why anyone would want to leave the Matrix anyway; judging by Zion and Robot City the real world is for shit.

My favorite character: the guy who kept saying "He's out of his goddamn mind!" Dude was the only person in the movie who talked a bit of sense.

ALSO: I really do not need to see Keanu Reeves getting his eyes burnt out!! That's totally unnecessary!!

some people just can't handle the fact they got beat down by some smartass robots. i think if it was me, and i think i know me tho i can't be sure, i would like to live my life as much on the 'outside' and as close to the truth as possible. it was only Matrix v1.0 which was supposedly the real deal utopia where nothing fucked up but apparently we puny fleshlings just can't deal with that.

The Matrix is better in all ways possible:
1) Super kung fu skills for no apparent reason
2) Flying!
3) Everyone wears either leather, rubber, or crazy goth Maoist costumes all the time (contrast this with the horrifying dumpsterhippie chic sported by everyone in Zion)
4) Choices of food besides plain oatmeal
5) Sunlight
6) Distinct lack of people who wander around talking like drunk third year philosophy majors.

I would commit suicide if I was stuck in Zion.

xpost: Tracer Hand, computer flowers. DON'T. NEED. WATER!!!

Well, that and the whole "being a slave to robots who are sucking your life force" thing but I think I wouldn't mind that soooo much. If I had to choose between listening to Morpheus, who is clearly completely fucked in his head, and being a robot battery, I think I'd choose robot battery to be honest. Morpheus just sounds like my crazy ex boyfriend and it wasn't amusing when he talked like that either :/

xpost stevem that idea rules!!!!!!!!!

"damn you rock'em and sock'em robots, can't we just get along?!"

same reasons humans do - as the narrator says in The Second Renaissance 'man made machine in his image'

the little girl was the new Oracle i thought - but the old Oracle came back when the Architect/Machine God did an undo on all SMith's meddling anyway.

But you're staring at me
Like I need to be saved
In your Jesus Christ pose
Arms held out
In your Jesus Christ pose
Thorns and shroud
Like it's the coming of the Lord
And I swear to you
That I would never feed you pain

But your staring at me
Like I'm driving the nails
In your Jesus Christ pose
And you stare at me
In your Jesus Christ pose
Arms held out like it's
The coming of the Lord

And would it pay you more to walk on water
Then to wear a crown of thorns
It wouldn't pain me more to bury you rich
Then to bury you poor
In your Jesus Christ pose

I kind of think the ends of both of these short "found art videos" were better than the ending of Matrix Revolutions though :/

The final battle in the skies is like Superman II (1980), only nowhere near as fun.

- The Smiths did take out Seraph and Sati; the Smith who confronted The Oracle in her apartment was the Smithized Sati, much like the Smith who confronted Neo was the Smithized Oracle.

- The robots intentionally grimmed up the atmosphere to make life inimical to the free humans. This was mentioned in the first movie, IIRC.

- The rules defining the Matrix are different now; anyone who wants to leave and go to Zion can do so; the people in the Matrix are being given the choice. Likewise, the programs with "no purpose" which would normally have been deleted, like Sati, are now free to exist within the Matrix.

- The end of the Neo/Smith fight: Neo lets himself get absorbed by the Smiths. Neo is jacked into the Matrix via the Source of the robot city. As soon as he gets absorbed, the robot city sends a gigantic fuck-off power surge through his body. NeoSmith blows up. However, NeoSmith is also insanely fuckoff powerful and takes all of the Smiths with him (most likely due to the "opposites attract"/"balance the equation" thing, with an allusion to the symmetry of Neo creates/Smith destroys shown back in the first movie). All of the programs infected by Smith are freed, presumably along with all of the people.

Why was the Oracle lying in the pit at the end of the Smith explosion? Becasue the Smith infection had been driven from her.

woah i hadn't even noticed this and i watched chunks of it last night (divx download)!

Also, is it particularly important what the machines were going to do with Neo's body at the end?

potentially yes

I thought it was the other way around - the human scientists caused the permanent could to destroy the solar energy of the computers.

I can't remember enough, but I think the only recognizable things we see after the Smithplosion are programs - it's not entirely clear that there are any humans left ("there are levels of survival that we are comfortable with").

I'm basically bitter about the whole thing because I feel complicit - I did a lot of cheerleading of the "it's only half a movie" sort after Reloaded, and in fact I got bad bad warmovie instead.

it seems that only programs can be retrieved after Smithery and not humans in the Matrix.

I would assume that Smith found a way to permanently control multiple bodies, but that he was simply removed from the system w/o killing everyone. Doesn't make much sense to have that big city at the end with everyone dead in it.

I don't think this was ever explained. As was why Neo and his cronies had no trouble offing a ton of guards and cops, therefore killing a bunch of enslaved humans. (I think I have reached my maximum level of geeking out.)

I read an article (NYTimes, I think), that likened their mindset regarding the killing of innocent enslaved humans to that of terrorists.

As for the film...

1) Was giggling at the end. Thought I got it. Explained to mate what my theory was. He looked perplexed. Realised that any film where i have to decide whether it was good or awful isn't actually that good.

2) I reckon this was a bit of an Apocalypse Now for the brothers W. There's a great story in Reloaded and revolutions - How neo does some shit to save Zion. You could ice a lot of the rest for director's Acid Cut on DVD and still be left with a 2 hr 30 minute film that kicked major league ass. For starters, the chase seen from 2 and the battle scenes from 3 are magnificent. They should have done what they did first time - realise that kung-fu. intelligent cgi, chicks in pvc with guns and cod-philosophy make a decent movie. Instead, they gone all Lucas and actually start to believe this shite and take it seriously with equally poor results.

3) I realised that what i like about 1 was the aesthetic of the matrix; it had a similar 'any city' feel to it like 'Se7en' but had this really cool dislocated timeframe through the TV screens being 1950s stylee, offices being late 80s etc. That was all left behind as all scenes in the Matrix became darkened and night-set, especially in 3.

4) At the start of 3, we're told that Merv is a kick-ass dude. Yet he promptly disappears from the film. How does he stop the Architect getting him? Does Smith get him? What / who is he? Help!

5) Ditto Oracle. She was dead. Then she's not. What's going on? Help. Please.

6) What happened in the end? Was the machine god the architect?

Some films use ambiguity well; but they combine the ambiguity to certain key moments which determine the discussion of the film and its reception by the audience. This film wasn't ambiguous; it was fucking incomprehensible. It wasn't art-house. it was a major blockbusting big-budget kick-ass movie. I shouldn't leave a film with so many questions about what actually happened before my eyes. I want to ponder the implications of what's happened, not wonder what on earth just happened before my eyes. I'm still wondering.

The Oracle was Smithed but returned to her previous state when A/MG reversed Smith's meddling of the Matrix.

Architect is the manifestation of the Machine God within The Matrix only, so they seem to be one and the same thing.

as time goes by even the most ardently naive defenders of this kind of stuff think of 1000 ways it could've been better. we definitely need a new franchise that combines action with intelligent, non-cliched sci-fi ideologies - 35% Matrix, 65% K Dick/Herbert/M Banks/Gibson...you can now do absolutely anything with special effects technology so with the novelty of that wearing off it would be great to see more cerebral, adult-orientated (not meaning violence or sex particularly) plots and concepts executed with more artistic integrity - again The Animatrix does hint at this with marvellous glimpses in 'Beyond' and 'Matriculated' especially.

However, no one on this thread mentioned the bit in the initial pan across the goth club where one of the dancers pulls his dance partner's breasts out of her corset by the nipples, WTF?!

i will probably agree more with gear than myself two years ago...

also, best description of the elders group goes to a friend who called them "Dreadlocked Starfleet Command"

why aren't they called 2 and 3, though? stupid names

oh it doesn't matter.

I would like die hard: with a vengeance more if it were called die hard 3: die hard with a vengeance or something

Finally saw this last night. I liked the 2nd one though toward the end it got confusing as I don't think I was invested enough in the storyline. This was just boring, like the dull space battles from the new Star Wars but stretched out to an hour and inter-cut with stuff that was in the other movies. Perhaps the plot of this movie isn't as confusing as it seems to me, but it felt like every time a major character was going to drop a plot bomb they went into cliche Matrix-talk. "What do I need to do?" "You know, you've always known." This isn't philosophical, it's bad writing.

Also, yeah, the guy with the attitude that likes to cuts himself, let's leave him in the same room with a disabled Neo, and have him watched over by one doctor lady. Also let's get the Master Control Program from Tron except make him look like a baby. How come Neo can't bring Trinity back from the dead again, if Neo got taken over by Smith in the first movie would the world have ended like it does here, and what were all the mechs doing in that inter-dimensional vortex from the end of Howard the Duck?

Only reason to see this film are those amazing breasts.

ugh, this movie. you know what sucked about this too is that the "real world" which is masked by the matrix is boring and ugly. i would rather have had a couple more movies completely within the matrix program, with neo and the rest kind of working undercover like a viral program, instead of this leather fetish rave fighting bullshit. and considering how "smart" this movies were supposed to be, the last two are so, so stupid.

i did see v for vendetta in the end, it was good, i suppose.

speed racer was better than revolutions, btw.

ugh, this movie. you know what sucked about this too is that the "real world" which is masked by the matrix is boring and ugly.

seriously! being plugged into the matrix seems like a pretty sweet deal.

Omar OTM, "Speed Racer" was MUCH better than both sequels.

ugh, this movie. you know what sucked about this too is that the "real world" which is masked by the matrix is boring and ugly. i would rather have had a couple more movies completely within the matrix program, with neo and the rest kind of working undercover like a viral program, instead of this leather fetish rave fighting bullshit. and considering how "smart" this movies were supposed to be, the last two are so, so stupid.

i did see v for vendetta in the end, it was good, i suppose.

speed racer was better than revolutions, btw.

― omar little, Monday, December 8, 2008 8:01 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's true tho, the whole hook of the first one is that once you know the truth you can learn kung fu instantly and become superman... and travel thru phones and shit. why would you want to set your movie outside of that??

Because you want to have a crazy rave sequence mayhaps.

A boring crazy rave sequence, at that.

i think the first matrix was clearly made with no sequel in mind. this wasn't some kind of lord of the rings all-of-one-piece thing.

i think also neo turning into an incredibly uninteresting cipher with no personality in the last two films was also a bad move. yeah lol keanu joeks but in the first he was a really great character and we empathized with his situation. but once he was "the one" there was nothing left for him to discover except...i dunno, greater powers? who gives a shit.

"i think the first matrix was clearly made with no sequel in mind."

Would have been nice if they hadn't allowed for the possibility of one then.

yeah i know but if no sequel came about it could have existed as a single standalone film with no trouble whatsoever. i think they painted themselves into a corner with all the interesting character arcs completely front-loaded into the first film.

i think it was obviously made with a sequel in mind, esp with that last shot, but with no clear idea of what would be in that sequel.

Star Wars (and arguably Empire Strikes Back) are better than any of their sequels because the universe in which the story takes place is being unveiled/explored by the film as much as by the audience. The film is aware that a curtain is being drawn back, that the audience is being taken on a voyage of discovery, and paces itself accordingly. Think how much time both Star Wars and The Matrix spend gathering characters, doling out info in small bites, and ramping things up before all is revealed and the "epic battle" plots kick in -- and how much care they devote to textural variety outside the big action sequences. I'm thinking especially of the scene in The Matrix where Neo first visits the Oracle in her faux Chicago tenement. It's so rich and surprising and realistically detailed. The Wachowskis take time with it, and don't seem primarily concerned with kicking your eyeballs in with wicked awesome shit. There's nothing like it in either of the sequels, which lack any sense of wonder or exploration. Therefore, tedious, boxed-in, unsurprising.

I don't know, the second one pretty much holds up until Neo finds out the "secret" of the Matrix, at which point it gets kind of retarded.

Yeah I'll basically watch the entire second one and enjoy it up until the trucks hit each other and blow up. The rest is inconsequential

well i think they weren't planning a sequel to complete this story, is what i meant. they were hedging their bets in both directions. obviously the door was left open. kind of like the first star wars, which could have made sense as a single film too. but i think that particular universe allowed for more possibilities than the matrix series.

give me the car chase from reloaded and that's it imo

That car chase is one of the greatest things ever filmed, is the thing.

exploding digital vagina scene > car chase

I don't know if they clearly meant for a sequel, but I think the first one ends well, similar to Terminator 2's ominous ending where the heroes have won, but the future remains uncertain. Agree with Omar that it could have been a standalone film, and probably should have remained that way.

As inferior as the sequels are, at least there are some fun fight scenes and chases, I guess, especially in the second one. One problem I had was that compared to the first one, all the fights seemed really too "soft". Like in the first one, that scene where Morpheus is getting his ass whooped by Smith before they capture him, there is this wonderfully crunchy moment where his head gets put through a toilet seat. I can't really think of any moments in the second two movies that had that kind of impact, despite all the bullets, flying and zipping around and cascading building collapses - the CG had just gotten far overused.

^Wait, what?

I've said this elsewhere but it was really disappointing to me that after adding all this other fairly interesting and exotic stuff to the universe they proceeded to do nothing with it in Revolutions. Hey there's this whole other underworld of rogue apps in the matrix that do weird things outside the bounds of the agents or the humans, but nevermind, we're setting the finale in the boring wasteland where magic doesn't exist.

Getting Leigh Brackett to write Empire is the big plus for that film (although this depends on whether you believe she wrote it, I guess.)

Basically there was a possiblity of doing something interesting with a Matrix sequel, but these guys were probably not the ones to write it.

Also its funny how the movie franchise that re-made Keanu's career features him traveling between realities through a telephone, just like the far more superior Bill & Ted series.

As I was watching this last night I asked me friend "Why are they all wearing sunglasses?" Then I remembered this...

i think you know your well has run dry when your idea of taking it to another level is just adding an extra couple hundred cgi hugo weavings

Yeah they really lost the plot on the fight stuff sadly which was my favorite part of the first film.

Btw the future is totally going to be the Matrix but without any clear distinction between human and robots due to nanotechnology and genetic programming.

At first I thought that said garlic programming, which would be cool.

yes we know exactly how the future is going to be

I think the first movie is pretty much perfect. The story as continued in the second and third films makes sense and is not hermetic if you watch with a close eye, but it's a terribly boring story.

Such a terrible idea to write a you-must-watch-closely supersubtle plot to accompany a noisy bludgeoning actioner.

decided early on that i wasn't gonna see pts 2+3, has been easiest ever resolution to keep

Matrix Resolutions

Just read this website and the story is finally making some sense to me.

http://www.thematrix101.com/reloaded/meaning.php
http://www.thematrix101.com/revolutions/meaning.php

But if I had to take a test on the the plot of the Matrix trilogy I would fail.

it's not that the over-arcing story didn't make sense, it's that it was, as Hoos said, boring.

I liked the planet o' Agent Smiths OK, but this was pretty much donkey balls all around.

Even having enjoyed Reloaded more than most, to my mind this is the most anticlimactic series of films ever, amirite? By "series," I do not mean standalone features that have unnecessary cash-in sequels tacked on, but films which were intended as serials from the outset.

What's good about the first film is the Agent Smith / Cypher dynamic. One wants in, the other wants out.

Cypher may well be a villain but he also appears to be the only one who has grasped *the basic reality of the situation*, indeed, and

Smith's "humanisation" by the matrix is an entertaining reversal of the usual Terminator / Star Trek-style "what does it mean ... to be HUMAN?" business. Smith's answer: it SUCKS, it makes me BAD AT MY JOB.

Also the 1st film has considerable (surely intentional!) comedy value which is very much helped along by the utter humourlessness of Morpheus at al. As of Reloaded, the humourlessness takes over.

As of Reloaded, the humourlessness takes over.

oh this is some bullshit

reloaded is chockablock with all manner of gags

in fact the abandonment of haw-haws in the third act is probably another one of the main reasons I have no use for it after the trucks

apocalypse haw

Smith's "humanisation" by the matrix is an entertaining reversal of the usual Terminator / Star Trek-style "what does it mean ... to be HUMAN?" business. Smith's answer: it SUCKS, it makes me BAD AT MY JOB

This is a good point, the more I think about it now the more it seems like it was supposed to be the humans and machines reaching a compromise, what with the program Rama talking about love and the "human" Morpheus talking about machines and people needing each other. I wish there was more of this dialog than mechs-blasting-zillions of squid-bots but what the hey...

To me the whole "Neo is the One, no Neo is not the One, wait Neo IS the One but he can't change anything, wait Neo is controlling the real world with his mind" was the most confusing bit. Hopefully seeing these Animatrix things will clear up some of the timeline for me..

in fact the abandonment of haw-haws in the third act is probably another one of the main reasons I have no use for it after the trucks

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, December 9, 2008 1:53 AM (12 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest

Come on, you'd miss out on Persephone's perfect tits! I'm glad she's in all the scenes with the silly French dude so I can just tune him out cos otherwise he'd be pretty annoying.

I thought the trucks happened after Persephone's tits...?

he thinks I'm referring to the thread title instead of the third act of Reloaded

Wow, I am watching the Second Renaissance right now and it is amazing, shocking, and mind-bending. Much much much better than those sequels. I'm tempted to say I like it better than the Matrix but it's too short!

Beyond and Matriculations are even better but The Second Renaissance could've made for a great Matrix prequel perhaps

My memory of Revolutions is more or less three solid hours of gurning grunts strapped into comically large exoskeletons shooting ridiculously many rounds of ammunition into endless streams of those squid robot thingys. Punctuated by a brief interlude of cartoon Keanu battling a thousand cartoon Mr Smiths, animated with the style and quality of Hanna Barbera.

The Second Renaissance is by far the best of Animatrix imo

omfg those exoskeletons were totally ridiculous. this is what happens when you try to make mecha vaguely realistic - you wind up with a stupid ass artillery platform that's slower and more fragile than one that's on wheels, and as a bonus in Revolutions they also don't carry enough ammunition to last more than two minutes. That shit was ridiculous with the fucking handcart.

they should've been at the rave in the mech suits

its funny to me that everybody talks about the multi-Smith CGI that I didn't even notice at the time. What really stood out to me was the one long slow zoom on a rendered man-in-mech as the Sentinels began streaming in

i was like "wtf this looks like a final fantasy vii cutscene why isn't everyone laughing at this"

Too busy crying

I tend to contrast this with the Pirates of the Caribbean movies: in both cases I had faith coming out of the second one, and the third made me a fool with its incoherent mess, but At World's End at least had a sandship/Singapore/Keith Richards - lots of details to keep the attention. Also, you got the impression that they at least had a plot at some point before chopping bits out of it. Both of them have big spectacular endings that are inferior to the smaller setpieces in the second one (highway scene/three-way swordfight).

Also, I have watched At World's End twice, and nothing on this planet could make me sit through Revolutions again.

At World's End probably has a better script and acting but I didn't enjoy it as much as Revolutions at the time (i may do on rewatch tho - not that i want to see either again tho)

At World's End >>>>>>>>>> Revolutions

The 4 years in which The Matrix was worshipped and looked at as the next Star Wars or whatever were unbearable, and I'm eternally grateful to the sequels for being so shitty that even the fanboys jumped ship.

omfg those exoskeletons were totally ridiculous. this is what happens when you try to make mecha vaguely realistic - you wind up with a stupid ass artillery platform that's slower and more fragile than one that's on wheels, and as a bonus in Revolutions they also don't carry enough ammunition to last more than two minutes. That shit was ridiculous with the fucking handcart.

― El Tomboto, Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:01 AM (14 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

film criticism very much in character

"New Star Wars" sounds fair enough - well put together, amaaazing special effects for its time, vague mystical understructure. We just didn't have to wait 30 years to feel all the blood drain from our bodies.

Oh yeah also annoying fuckers claiming the original was "never that good" :)

i liked the original when it came out but i didn't love it

Oh yeah also annoying fuckers claiming the original was "never that good" :)
Seriously, no matter how annoying the other two got, the first one still holds up very well.

i can see why the sequels might ruin the first film for people, tbh. there are some minor things in the original that are indicative of the coming shitstorm and now seem lamer.

listen slocki I'm just saying what everybody else is thinking.

I think there are a lot of things in the original that make you think they'd never chose the angle they took with the other two that can make you forget the shitstorm in rewatching

The 4 years in which The Matrix was worshipped and looked at as the next Star Wars or whatever were unbearable, and I'm eternally grateful to the sequels for being so shitty that even the fanboys jumped ship.

A-FUCKING-MEN

yeah that was sort of the most hilarious fallout from the sequels. all these people who invested in the promise of this awesome universe got matrixrolled in the worst way

it's simple. Matrix was "for teenagers" in the same way Star Wars was "for kids".

I think you mean "for goths"

first movie is fucking retarded btw

like teenagers

lolz point taken

btw i can't think of the matrix without thinking of this first

"SEAN PILE"

yeah that was sort of the most hilarious fallout from the sequels. all these people who invested in the promise of this awesome universe got matrixrolled in the worst way

this guy was depressed for MONTHS afterword:

http://www.viceland.com/int/dos_donts/1652/main.jpg

Some fans persist. I helped a 20-ish guy at work in the bookstore today who could have walked off the set of one of these movies, trenchcoat and all. No, he did not remove his black lolmatrixglasses indoors.

i think there are a ton of douchebags who just dress like that, whether they like these movies or not.

they're called goths and they cannot die cuz they're like sexy leather vampire gods dontchaknow

True, but the guy totally blindsided me (ok, I saw it coming) by bringing these movies up in conversation while we looked for some sci-fi books or graphic novels or whatever it was he came in for.

I think that a case could be made that the Matrix films DO have a sense of humour, but I'm not sure that the same could be said of their fans, at least IME.

"SEAN PILE"

― Yentl vs Predator (blueski), Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:27 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is mega lolz should xpost with wanda sykes tribute thread

never seen that chapelle, funny!!

I haven't gone back and re-watched the first to see what other hints it drops, but I know a massive one is when Neo gets interrogated and you see the giant Batcave TV-bank of The Architect!

3d sequels apparently happening UH

Meanwhile, the Wachowskis are also working on a futuristic Robin Hood retelling called Hood, which Reeves says is set to star Will Smith

Matrix sequels debunked. http://screenrant.com/matrix-4-5-bill-and-ted-3-keanu-reeves-rob-97796/

a futuristic Robin Hood retelling called Hood, which Reeves says is set to star Will Smith

ok this could be awesome

so someone quickly tell me why the Neo who could do anything he wanted with the Matrix at the end of the first film is here in the third film, seemingly inside the Matrix, having a lame fight and getting his ass kicked.

also why's everyone exploding. I'd say that this film would benefit from a more focused viewing, but.

Awful, awful, awful film.

i've just seen this for the first time since watching it in the cinema, and i am so. fuckin. confused.

Everything based outside the matrix (zion battle scenes etc )is awesome though, they should just have made a terminator sequel and told keanu to take his gere lite codology fuck off

*and* fuck off, obv

This series will be rehabilitated and will become trendy again -- especially with teen males -- before the decade is through. Right now it's obviously at the fifteen year mark of critical disrespect and forgetfulness, but it will make a comeback.

I thought of the series because of this commercial,

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=loinY8MmVq8

this was bad

70% of this was a corny war movie

the rest is corny inconsistent gibberish

i remember seeing this in the theater with my high school friends and we all just simultaneously burst out laughing at the slow-mo close-up punch in the face

This series will be rehabilitated and will become trendy again -- especially with teen males -- before the decade is through. Right now it's obviously at the fifteen year mark of critical disrespect and forgetfulness, but it will make a comeback.

I thought of the series because of this commercial,

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=loinY8MmVq8

― Cunga, Friday, April 26, 2013 12:17 AM (six years ago) bookmarkflaglink

not wrong but totally wrong at the same time