The Worst Simpsons Character

Pete - I wanna 'sax' you up.

terri or sherri: you ruined our undefeated season. you ruined everything, ruiner...my sister likes you.

i absolutely cannot stand troy mcclure.

Order of hatred (one being most hated):
1. Bleeding Gums Murphy
2. Maude Flanders
3. Lisa Simpson
4. Marge Simpson
5. Marge's Twin Sisters
6. Milhouse's dad, who got divorced.
6. Oh yeah, and Apu's wife.

lisa is also totally unfairly being shredded to pieces here, her less flattering attributes being focussed on. yes, she's moral and often quite vocal about it. but she also has a good laugh watching itchy and scratchy, is smart, went off her nut after drinking the water at duff gardens, is funny when she looks pissed orf.

nobody can argue that homer isn't classic. but recently, the show has become weaker and weaker as it relies more and more on homer's dumbarse hijinks. compared to homer these days, marge and lisa are fresh and intoxicating.

and yes, the worst character ever is bleeding gums murphy. also, ralph wiggum is a used cartridge, time to kill him off.

Other duds: Grandpa Simpson and Groundskeeper Willy.

Underused character: Luigi.

i.e. classic

I have an irrational hatred on Mr Van Houten. I think it's because he mocks my baldness.

Thanks!

Artie Ziff was supposed to suck - you lose a point.

No, I agree. I've always found it very grating.

also disco stu is a piece of shit too.

For one thing, his default personality setting these days is "father who can't handle his kids and wants to run away"; but even the "convenience store owner" aspect -- does that seem like an Indian stereotype, or a convenience store owner stereotype, or what?

I'd like examples of what people are upset by.

(I'm still going to give Bleeding Gums Murphy the prize here, although Disco Stu comes close.)

Same with some of the schoolyard kids.

On the other hand, sometimes I liked when characters were basically defined by one oddball trait. The kid who vomited on the bus became forever more "the kid who vomited on the bus," which is exactly what most kids his age would forever associate him with.

I really can't think of a character that I dislike.

no way. maude was always super-pious while helen's a gossipy busybody.

I think grandpa, depsite some good moments, is the most consistently annoying.

Bleeding Gums died, what, around the 4th or 5th season? In the show's heyday, unless you believe the heyday was some other time.

Bleeding Gums Murphy wasn't annoying enough to be in the running, he was just sort of there. He was in two episodes, I think, and he had his "Cosby Show" walk-on bit, which I thought was funny.

I was watching some older Simpsons episode and the reason it used to be funny is the jokes were just there, the writers weren't trying to batter you over the head. It's beyond repair at this point, I think.

*THWACK*

There is no worst character. There are no characters that haven't been used well at least once. The writing varies from episode to episode.

If you're still watching new episodes of the Simpsons, I can't see how you wouldn't be disappionted in it. Blame yourselves for that, not the characters.

gil is still the worst. and of course disco stu.

This one:

http://www.simpsonssource.de/bilder/cast/110.JPG

Exactly.

Glad even the writers forgot about her.

or the womynist babysitter who had the gummi di milo on her arse?

Because the world needed more bitter-divorcee-whining-about-her- ex-husband humour.

The problem with the kids today is that they don't understand the jazz. With all their hippin and their hoppin and their bippin and thier boppin.

Are there a lot of episodes with Gil in them? I've seen two or three, I guess... I read him as a ready, walk-on parody of Jack Lemmon in Glengary Glen Ross and nothing more. He's supposed to be one dimensional. But then, like Gear said, all these one-dimensional characters become annoying with overuse.

Solution: STOP WATCHING THE SIMPSONS, PEOPLE. Buy some DVDs and be happy with what *used* to be the best show on television.

Which ones? I feel like I have a much more fond opinion of the show since I haven't watched it since about season 8 or 9. The one where Lisa is afraid of having the "Simpson gene" is one of my all-time favorites.

I'd like examples of what people are upset by.

Look, I haven't followed the show as closely as I think most people on this thread have, given that I don't even know who half these characters are. I've barely even watched it in a couple years. But the bumbling (cf. Peter Sellers in The Party), tackily dressed (cf. "Bengali In Platforms") convenience store owner with a goofy accent and a massive number of kids is certainly an Indian stereotype. At least a couple different old Frederick Forsyth spy novels like The Negotiator present cameos of this exact figure in a more overtly hateful form. The Simpsons has definitely nuanced it more, e.g. when Apu was begged to join the bowling team "The Stereotypes", but it still seems to be playing on this basic stereotype.

And I do actually appreciate some 'comic Indian' figures e.g. some moments from Canadian comedy show This Hour Has 22 Minutes or on the recent Nintendo commercial. Maybe the difference is that these actually seem to be coming from within - like they actually seem to point out real quirks from the communities rather than just presenting a kinder, gentler American version of externally constructed stereotypes formed in the most brutal era of British Paki-bashing?

''Which popular "Simpsons" characters have died in the past year? If you said Bleeding Gums Murphy and Dr. Marvin Monroe, you are wrong: they were never popular.''

And the "Hi everybody!" guy can go too, forget his name.

I don't think Apu is at all bad. The convenience store thing is a stereotype, but that doesn't make depicting an Asian running a convenience store a bad or dishonest thing - it's a stereotype because it's pretty common. He only got lots of kids after quite a while. Of course he has a goofy voice - this is a cartoon, loads of the characters have goofy voices. He seems a fairly substantial character by now, a lot more than just a collection of some standard Asian traits. I thought his dress sense was more convenience store than Asian, personally.

-- Ronan

God Ronan, I don't think I've ever disagreed with you more. The homer episodes are just dumb one-note slapstick (fine if it floats your boat, but it's always bored me senseless), but Lisa's are amongst my favourites ever.

My take is, when it came right down to it, Apu wasn't treated like "That Indian Guy", he was the guy who ran the Kwik-E-Mart, and was invited over for the big football game, and onto the bowling team. In other words, he was just an ordinary Springfielder in a lot of ways. Which is more than we can say for Cletus.

I just think some of the early Lisa episodes are terrible, the Cable TV one for instance. Other bad ones that spring to mind, the beauty pageant, Jebediah Springfields tongue etc, even the funny parts in those episodes are not the Lisa ones, for me. I am sure there must be Lisa episodes I like but I'm struggling to think of some.

And the episode with the new girl "Alison" must be one of the most grating of all time! Even if it is funny in parts. Lisa's voice!

I actually have come to love the increasing number of Moe episodes most, from recent years.

The episode featuring Christina Ricci immediately sprang to my mind.

Skidders OTM wrt Apu.

(The real answer to this is Maggie, but what the hell)

I don't get it. I can't actually think of a "worst" character, I guess it depends if this means worst writing/acting/concept wise, or just the one most unpleasant in the show itself, though many are meant like that (eg Patty and Selma, who never did much for me).

no, that episode was great! that's the SUGAR episode, for god's sake!

"hey homer, doesn't this count as stealing?"
"read your town charter, boy! 'if ye foodstuffs shall touch the ground, said foodstuffs shall be turned over to the village idiot.' since i don't see him around, start shovelling!"

(This sounds catty but it isn't meant as such - why do you watch nu-Simpsons at all, other than a vague hope that they might be Not Shit once again?)

32

actually i did catch an episode on C4 earlier - i laughed a lot when Arnie in the sky was commentating on Homer's attempts to run from the police after abducting the kids - there's always one or two funny things in each episode but the rest of it just enrages me.

Barney is my pick, never EVER been funny.

the realtor and dr.nick are both terrible, as is the christian country star that flanders takes up with after maude's death.

Even though Artie Ziff was supposed to be annoying, he wasn't funny - not even a little bit. I hate the Artie Ziff episodes.

xpost

[GABF14] Thank God It's Doomsday
Homer dies, goes to Heaven and meets God, who he gets into an argument with. (unconfirmed)

i guess i understand the hate. people hate anything if i goes on too long. i still like the show. it's still better than most t.v. and i like weatching t.v. , so there ya go. i liked the china episode. especially the dragons. "we will come back in 10,000 years and the world will end!!!" and that "come back in the year of the porcupine! which doesn't even EXIST!" line. I'm paraphrasing. and the chinese production of death of a salesman was good.

Main characters - I just found some Simpsons wallpaper on the net to make sure I wasn't missing any, and all but all of the main characters are at least good. But after some consideration, I'd have to say Barney - his great moments are few and far between, and 75% of his lines are as an imagination-free straight man.

Eh Hellooooo? Groundskeeperrrrrrrrrrrrr Willie = Worst accent evah! (and I don't CARE if it's meant to be ironic)

So what? You shouldn't have to be able to empathise with someone to find them funny.

Anyone hating on the bumblebee man gets a swift kick in the nuts.

i'm really puzzled by the gil-hating around here. is he really THAT bad?

Froghorn Leghorn is classic whereas the Texas Billionare is a terrible one joke pony that wasn't even funny the first time.

Lauren, do you mean Cookie Kwan? I'm kind of intrigued by her because I can't work out why she's so bitter about everything. Even in the episode where you see Marge at camp as a teenager, she pops up being just as bitter.

No one's mentioned Snake because Snake is possibly one of the shows BEST characters, come on! He's totally one of my faves. He has an odd sense of gentlemanness in his theivery, a really strange accent, and comes up with some classic lines. No way is he bad.

i like how no one said mr burns. it's like we're all afraid of him or something!

I like Marvin, he seems to have waned.

"I gave a major thumbs down to Bart bashing Homer on the head with a chair; I don't see how you can call that funny."

"Noooooo! There goes my retirement grease."

I thought The Simpsons did better instead of having Schwarznegger, Ted Kennedy or Mike Tyson, they created their own characters kind in that vein and it was much more funny. With some exceptions, the celebrity walkons are usually pretty stiff.

What was the name of the Tress Macneil-voiced tap instructor? Eurghhh. I'm glad they never brought her back.

I see no-one has mentioned Lurleen Lumpkin yet. I'm not sure why I dislike her so much, but it's probably because she appeared in such an unredeemably poor episode. No wonder Matt Groening leaves the writing alone.

-- sunburned and snowblind (fluxion2...), March 13th, 2005.

OTM PWNS ETC

Honestly, all we need in syndication is 9 & 10 as they're the only ones worth watching but are questionably worth buying.

And the "Take My Wife Sleeze" episode fom the unwatchable 11th season.

As for the worst character question, the main problem with new episodes is they treat the family as one character, and springfield as the other character.

Marvin, Vietname guy, and Bleeding Gums were all characters held over from seasons 1-3. when the show was finding its voice.

The story goes, George Meyer created a lil comedy writer zine in 1989 called Army Man: America's Only Magazine. He had his comedy writer friends contribute, such as Jon Vitti, John Swartzwelder, and even jack Handy's Deep Thoughts debuted there.

Sam Simon was a fan, so when he Groening and Jim Brooks needed a writing staff, they just snagged the whole Army Man team, and many Harvard Lampoon alumni (most Army Man men knew each other there).

At first, the team was writing to the needs of Groenings style, but by mid-2nd season, the writers were getting more of their style and pacing in...and the Al Jean/Mike Reiss team began trying to run the show (uncredited).

By the 3rd seasn, Mike and Al were credited, but still getting heavy help from Sam/Brooks/Groening. Half way through that season, they were on their own...and they openly admit, they were afraid, so they just kept having the staff rewrite scripts dozens of times before airing. That's why it got faster and funnier.

After season 4 (the best season), everyone got a big head and began to leave. Al & Mike left to startup The Critic, giving the show over the David Mirkin of get a Life fame. He did okay, but it was a step back. His jokes are often to big and hokey. I call certain jokes Mirkin Moments. Homer as an astronaut was under his watch.

Mirkin quit running the show in season 7, after the huge Who Shot Mr. Burns thing. many of the writers/producers that left came back after their outside projects failed.

The team that took over were Bill Oakley & Josh Weinstein. I see them as the shows saviors...

They have said numerous times "we dind't want to do big over the top shows, we wanted to return to the season 3 & 4 down to earth funny but moving shows." The best examples imo are Bart gets caught shoplifiting and bart sells his soul. Bill Okakley was Hard Lampoon's editor I think.

Season 9 is when Mike Scully took over. People dog him as the man that flushed the show down the tubes, but a.) he wrote the script for that Bart gets caught shoplifting episode, and b.) I always chalk it up to who is staff writer at the time, not who's the exec. But yeah, season 9 is when it goes downhill. Season 11 is still under him and it's unwatchable (Homer as Kim Bassinger/Alec Bladwin's assistant)

The old staf talks a lot about how much of the staff writers today are technically younger than Bart is. I think this says something about the changing of the guard.

That's it! The "We're going to Delaware!" syndrome. I have been trying to put that into words and that's exactly my beef with the show these days. I think it's just lazy writing. I also think they rely on absurd violence for laffs more now than they used to, or at the last time I watched a new episode I felt that way. That might have changed.

Kirk Douglas as Chester Lampwick (creator of Itchy)

The Simpsons always had guest stars. It's that the guest stars got worse.

I downloaded seasons 16&17 off bittorrent and they're a real slog to get through...

nope, by 1989 Jack Handey's Deep Thoughts had been in Nat'l Lampoon for a bunch of years

Most cite him as the shows turn for the worse along with Scully. This is odd though as Ian was part of George Meyer's circle back in the 80's, and as alluded to above, Scully wrote some really good scrips prior to running the sow.

From what I understand, all the show runner really does as head writer is dole out the work and nix ideas. Both Scully and Mirkin have a hard time nixing bad ideas.

By the time Al Jean took the show back in recent years, the writing staff had completely turned over. Swartzwelder still writes scripts but hasn't written from the offices since like season 6 or something like that...keeping him out of the rewrite process (that which makes good shows).

Swartwelders two novels aren't super, but they're a good insight into what he brought/brings to the show. He just doesn't end stories very well, but the build ups are always superb.

His The Time Machine Did It is the better of the two books.

And true, I shouldn't have said Deep Toughts debuted, but found a home.

If I understand it right, National Lampoon was a spinoff of Harvard Lmapoon, so most likely, Handy was working that schtick all the way back to their school days...when Conan O 'Brien was with them.

-- gear (speed.to.roa...), July 14th, 2006.

OTM

Or the way that they used them. Michael Jackson doing the voice for a white guy who's in an insane asylum because he thinks he's Michael Jackson v. Red Hot Chili Peppers as four-fingered versions of themselves. While Bart says, "Cool! Red Hot Chili Peppers!"

Although! Homerpalooza is one of my favorite eps.

-- Rev. PappaWheelie (evieandjo...), July 14th, 2006. (later)

It's also an example of them reaching for obscure gags: that guy was a character on The Jack Benny Show.

That's why I still watch the Simpsons.

Bingo. This is why I hate Ralph Wiggum.

Seriously, you can't fuck with season 4.

http://www.snpp.com/episodeguide/season4.html

And I still watch the simpsons because as far as it's gone down over the years, it can still jump up and get me sometimes. It is kind of depressing waiting for those moments, though.

not here (philly area fox affiliate) - just seasons 11-now, OVER AND OVER AND OVER. HOMER FRAMES MARGE FOR A DUI - AHAHAHAHA THAT'S HILAAARIOUS. "OH MY GOSH IT'S 50 CENT - AHAHAHAHAHA!" ahem.

incidentally i blame dana gould for some of the show's suckiness these days. he was an awful, flopsweaty standup and since he started it's gone downhill even faster.

The credited script writers are minor. The staff writers that makeup the rewrite room are the workhorses of the show...and George Meyer was the king of the rewrite room for years.

But I may've understated the role of show runners. The are the head writers technically. The take the pitches and they give a heavy stamp of approval before the show airs...calling for rewrites and retakes when needed. If they don't make that call, the show will suck.

But Al Jean was the show runner in its prime (3& 4), as well as today. Clearly, it's not just his fault.

While this is true, it's not quite so cut-and-dried. Tony Bennett was appearing as himself back in Season 2. And that RHCP appearance was in Season 4, just one season after Michael Jackson's.

And for the record, Season 3 is better than Season 4. And Season 2 might be also.

Barney is my pick, never EVER been funny.

clearly you forget "I made a movie?"

Instead, I'm nominating Dr. Marvin Monroe. They should have left him dead.

ANYWAY, I still stand by the statement that something is wrong about newer Simpsons episodes.

I think the real problem with the show is that they've simply RUN OUT OF IDEAS.

And Grampa Simpson is definitely the worst character.

wrong. fighting hellfish.

brother from another series" i'd totally agree with you.

-- GOD PUNCH TO HAWKWIND (yournullfame), Saturday, July 15, 2006 4:41 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

The Hans Moleman deleted scene from this would have been one the 10 most LOL Simpsons moments ever for reals.

fighting hellfish is fucking terrible!!

Grandpa is like one of the three or four most quotable characters EVAR. If nothing else, he's introduced into our language the shorthand for snooze-inducing time-wasters: "I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time . . ."

"My Homer is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is not a porn star."

"Dear Advertisers, I am disgusted with the way old people are depicted on television. We are not all vibrant, fun loving sex maniacs. Many of us are bitter, resentful individuals who remember the good old days when entertainment was bland and inoffensive. The following is a list of words I never want to hear on television again. Number one: bra. Number two: horny. Number three: family jewels."

Who'd've thought this thread would be a challops party, eh?

I'm really upset at the idea that someone could consider Granpa Simpson the worst character

Yeah, dude. It's clearly Lisa. Always has been. Her episodes suck.

Disco Stu

And Grampa Simpson is definitely the worst character.

-- Mr. Snrub, Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

this post is so rong that it has torn a hole in space-time, unleashing unspeakable monsters into this world.

anyway, i haven't seen a new episode in years but surely it's disco stu. or duff man.

i hate cookie kwan

Duffman is great though! He is thrusting in the direction of the problem!

I am clearly one of the few people on earth who really misses Dr Marvin Monro.

he had a nice voice.
i think the kind of generic marketing types, two suited-and-skirted media types who bark about things, are pretty bad. they sort of replaced troy mcclure.

yes, yes, yes. nagle, kwan, gil, all of them terrible.

BART !! by far

i like ol' gil. he's just william h macy, but that's not a bad thing.

I think the real problem with the show is that they've simply RUN OUT OF IDEAS.

-- Mr. Snrub, Thursday, July 24, 2008

This is timely.

"i like ol' gil. he's just william h macy, but that's not a bad thing."

jack lemmon, shurely?

Jack Lemmon definitely. Flanders is Wiliam H Macy.

The marketing types mentioned above sucks too.

It's Ralph.

There, I said it.

the bus driver

Otto

If there was no bleeding gums murphy there would be no 'I'd like another faberge egg please' 'but sir I think you've had enough' 'I TELL YOU WHEN IVE HAD ENOUGH'

I liked Snake's late-breaking backstory as a famed anthropologist

not sure if this counts, but poochy was horrible. I know he was supposed to be horrible, but his horribleness was supposed to be funny too, and it wasnt. it was just all around crap.

-- AaronK (AaronK), Monday, March 14, 2005 8:19 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

should have locked thread here

holding my breath for this
make your own poochie

Scholars of The Simpsons will argue about this thread's title question for decades until a consensus slowly emerges. Too soon to crown Bleeding Gums Murphy just yet.

SO glad to have not seen that fucking crazy cat-lady in awhile

bleeding gums murphy isn't in every episode, so marge.

what's so terrible about Bleeding Gums? Kids today, they don't know what the jazz... is all about!

Crazy Cat Lady was on at the beginning of last week's episode, using a cat as a bowling ball.

Really? Well, I skip as many episodes as I see nowadays anyhow...

Actually that gag sounds pretty funny (in a Tom & Jerry way) when I read it, funnier than it'd strike me onscreen

cat lady is a character who the writers think is wayyyy funnier than she actually is

Milhouse

I don't hate any character. But I will go with Cookie Kwan since she is a throwaway character. And I bet she talked on far more episodes then Bleeding Gums so I'm not really counting him. At least I've seen cat lady involved in some good jokes in the past. Cookie Kwan hasn't been in any joke as far as I can remember.

cookie kwan is probably my least favourite character. she seems completely pointless.

Ugh, I forgot about her. She is terrible.

I know I always say this but I still do not get the BGM hate. Is it his name? Is it the terrible Jazzman song Lisa sings? (that isnt his fault!).

Characters I could care less about: Louann Van Houten. She just seems so unreasonable and one-dimensional on top of it.

without Louann we wouldn't have a milhouse

You realize they are cartoon characters that are from people's imaginations, and that they don't literally reproduce.

That came out sounding like a command.

oh yeah! I'll show you

no that's ok, thanks

Ha!

You can't really gauge a worst character when considering the simpsons on the whole. Season 4 and season 18 are more or less incommensurable.

Case in point: Ralph as the slow, awkward kid (e.g. "I bent my wookie") vs. Ralph as stupid for the sake of stupid (and unnecessarily tedious).

Also: ceci n'est pas une pipecock = A++

cookie kwan may be the first character to have emerged after i stopped watching - never heard of or seen her til just now

She's been on it for at least 10 years.

I cant think of her in more than a few eps - she was in the one where marge gets the real estate job, but what else?

flashback episode with tween summer camp marge.

whoreson of frank grimes was a letdown. (this is the first time i have ever used the word "whoreson" ever)

That tour guide from the latest episode. Couldn't understand him and couldn't wait for him to shut up and he didn't.

Bart's not great.

what is this I don't even

Last episode had a really funny part.. Homer sleeping in the "tomb of the unknown savior" and the following dialogue. Tour guide might be funny for hardcire jews? Or the opposite. He was bleh

That tour guide from the latest episode. Couldn't understand him and couldn't wait for him to shut up and he didn't.

― Evan, Monday, March 29, 2010 6:16 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it was sasha baron cohen, barf

Does Apu's stereotyping really seem like racial stereotyping still?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGzvEqBvkP8

(I'm only slightly tempted to revive every thread where someone was incredulous that anyone found this offensive.)

That looks great

i absolutely cannot stand troy mcclure.
― ernest, Thursday, October 4, 2001 7:00 PM (sixteen years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what the fuck ernest

A lot of answers on this thread that I thought were wrong in 2001 are correct now - basically every character I have liked has been run into the ground

except Troy McClure, who can remain forever great because the show stopped using him

I don’t think I’ve ever watched a simpsons episode from start to finish

you should try it. some of them are very entertaining. and that's the tooth.

It started off a bit shaky but it's really hit its stride in the last few years, check it out

Struggling to think of a regular recurring character that I actively dislike

and now i made the mistake of googling "worst simpsons character" lists and the first two i read had LISA SIMPSON AT #1

FUCK NO

Sideshow Bob's kid Gino made it into two episodes. I've only seen the first, it was painful. "Vendetta!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_5Y5MvxGwU

its not on netflix or hulu so wont bother

Lisa was designed to be the voice of reason among all the characters, but she has devolved badly in that role, so as to make her character unlikeable, grating and smug. this entirely negates her original utility as a voice of reason, and consequently the whole Simpsons universe has become irredeemably chaotic and stupid.

sounds familiar

Lisa is amazing for those reasons. She acts as a proxy for the square audience member who comments critically on the absurdity of what's going on. She is a manifestation of the smug audience member who questions continuity. Without her this show would just be Family Guy

Bleeding Gums is the worst single-appearance character
Apu is the worst regular character
Disco Stu is the worst semi-recurring character
Dr. Marvin Monroe is also bad I guess

Principal Skinner has been and will always be the best regular character, I feel the entire id of the show's sense-of-humour is encapsulated in his nonchalant acceptance of the absurd

On a side note, I went to high school in Portland, OR exactly contemporaneously to Matt Groening. We were both Class of 1972. My high school was across the river from his high school. The principal of my high school was named Skinner.

bleeding gums appears twice though? and his death is in one of the best episodes of the show, "'round springfield"

and now i made the mistake of googling "worst simpsons character" lists and the first two i read had LISA SIMPSON AT #1

FUCK NO

― flappy bird, Thursday, November 30, 2017 7:00 PM (thirty-two minutes ago)

ppl hating on lisa for being "humorless" or whatever is some p run-of-the-mill online nerdboy misogyny

Three times -- he also sings the national anthem at a baseball game, but he's suddenly a singer rather than a saxophonist, and he's voiced by Daryl Coley instead of Ron Taylor.

xp

wtf I love Apu. an honest hard working family man, "Who Needs the Kwik-E Mart?" is heartbreaking
also whatever episode where he starts acting like a hummingbird

oh wait i just realized who i hate the most: CLETUS

I fucking hate Cletus.

Cletus is good in the episode where Marge has the pretzel business.

And he has one of the great one-liners when Marge accidentally destroys her Chanel dress then has to look for a replacement. The saleswoman at the outlet store tells her they have a shipment of "slightly burned Sears activewear" coming in:

https://frinkiac.com/gif/S07E14/1024623/1028627.gif?b64lines=V2hhdCB0aW1lIGFuZCBob3cgYnVybnQ_

an honest hard working family man

his honesty has some holes in it regarding outdated merchandise

he's just trying to get by

cletus' theme song makes the character worth it imo

some folk'll

man that theme song always got on my nerves

wtf i just asked my boss (massive simpsons fan) who his least favorite character is and he said APU

Dude

is yr boss south asian

I'm pretty sure Apu is what kept me from ever really loving the show. On paper, it should be my favourite show ever.

I don't think Apu's the worst by a longshot but there are some p clear issues w him as a character

NB I haven't watched with anything remotely resembling regularity since the 90s so it's possible that Apu has been written with the utmost wokeness since flappy was old enough to tune in.

sund4r, it's fr4z's birthday today btw. I feel he has to be on this thread in spirit

Why Apu is my pick for worst character: I adored him when I was a kid and felt empathy for him and his family, laughed at jokes he made and made at his expense, repeated these jokes to friends as a preteen and teenager, learned all the words to "Who Needs A Kwik-E-Mart?", not realizing that this character was completely racist from top to bottom, voiced by Hank Azaria, and the feeling of having participated in something that is with any distant perspective incredibly dehumanizing toward South Asians, and having felt now that I reenforced stereotypes about South Asians in the process of loving this character, it just makes me feel godawful and concerned that Apu as a whole might scuttle the entire series as being unwatchable in the future, in the same way that I've never been able to watch Breakfast At Tiffany's or Sixteen Candles

i don't think apu is necessarily written in a bad way, you could argue he's always depicted as a fairly sympathetic and admirable person (the show makes it clear that the shitty things about the kwik-e-mart are corporate policy, not him being lazy), and his religion is generally treated respectfully (at least in early episodes, i quit following it closely after season 11 or so). but in 2017 it's p hard to get around the fact of a non-white character being voiced by a white person in a deliberately stereotypical way. all the more sad + unsettling because the show doesn't do that with most (any?) of its other non-white characters.

How would you rehab apu (other than voice recasting)?

NB I haven't watched with anything remotely resembling regularity since the 90s so it's possible that Apu has been written with the utmost wokeness since flappy was old enough to tune in

his religion is generally treated respectfully (at least in early episodes, i quit following it closely after season 11 or so)

I feel like if anything there's a lot more lazy lol-India humour wrt Apu in the post-90s/crap-Simpsons era; not that it there wasn't any of that earlier in the show's run, but it got worse rather than better - I guess it's just the general trend across the board that the humour became cruder and meaner, the characters more broad? there's also lots of lol-elderly jokes about Grandpa in later episodes that feel crasser and nastier than anything from the early/mid 90s era - though possibly the earlier stuff was just as problematic and I'm more inclined to interpret it generously if it's funny, and the stuff from later seasons isn't? idk

Tbh, the main reference I remember to Apu's religion was when Homer tried to feed Ganesh a peanut. In the 'curry-flavoured Slushies' episode, I think? That said, I'm pretty sure I've said more vicious things about Hinduism in my day so.

in 2017 it's p hard to get around the fact of a non-white character being voiced by a white person in a deliberately stereotypical way.

Idk why this would have been more OK in 1990! Azaria himself on the origins of the character's voice.

Like, it wasn't ambiguous to me when I was 12.

but in 2017 it's p hard to get around the fact of a non-white character being voiced by a white person in a deliberately stereotypical way. all the more sad + unsettling because the show doesn't do that with most (any?) of its other non-white characters.

??

Dr Hibbert is voiced by Harry Shearer
Carl is voiced by Azaria.

Ive never heard anyone complain about it.

(which isnt to say no one has, obviously!)

which isn't to say it's not terrible, obviously

Well of course. I was just correcting the "the show doesn't do that with most (any?) of its other non-white characters" comment.

In actual fact none of the main cast as far as I can tell is non white, which is pretty surprising. Futurama has Phil Lamarr and Lauren Tom at least.

Main voice actor cast, that meant to say.

trayce i said "a deliberately stereotypical way" -- i don't think dr hibbert or carl are stereotypes at all. apu's voice is an over-the-top caricature, and it seems as if hank azaria was encouraged to make it as stereotypical as possible.

It is a very fine line that separates "stereotypical" from "racist". So fine it is hard to see with the naked eye.

In my childhood, being the only Indian-American in my class, I remember how humiliating it was when the class voted me "most likely to work at the Kwik-e-Mart" and other similar BS. Probably he should go if that kind of shit still happens to South Asian kids today (or the whole show, because who gives a shit anymore)

On the other hand, I can remember laughing my ass off with my family at some of the Apu episodes - we were happy to see any humor related to India represented on such a funny show. I didn't know or care that Hank Azaria was not Indian until I was an adult. Apu has given me so many laughs over the years that I've basically given a pass to the character. If a new show did a character like that now, I'd be rmde for sure

Always loved the fact that Apu was part of the Be Sharps.

Everybody should watch "the trouble with Apu".

Homers potato man ruse to get backstage at U2 gig also a low point

They're fucking dubs, not spudeating culchies. Do some basic fucking research.

the squishy flavor was chutney

Yaritza Burgeos is much much much worse than Apu. At least Apu has some back stories and can be seen as fully fleshed character, spanish speaking bumblebee man is really just a dumb running joke about the Spanish language in the US.

Was a bit surprised to see Bobby Jindal cited as a representational advance.

I think of Apu as a caricature that they could (barely) get away with in 1990, but which the show did its best to develop into a real character as it went on. Several episodes handle his relationship with Manjula with a certain amount of depth.

Weirdly I have no problem with bumblebee man, he is both a very specific media parody and a deliberately crass cartoony stereotype (I'd liken him to Italian Chef in terms of v broad "characters"), obv it's a knife edge but it's one they used to walk more surely before they were shit

Apu tho... it's precisely the fleshing out of the character that makes the tone-deaf portrayal seem so galling. There's no "it's the attitudes we're mocking" plausible deniability

almost every episode where the Simpsons go "abroad" is majorly fucked up in one way or another

Except Australia which is documentary

yeah their jokes about Canada are fine, I suspect some writers genuinely knew about Canada (culturally at least).

xp lmao wins

the scene in "Thirty Minutes Over Tokyo" where they're on the plane is hilarious, riding that incredibly offensive knife's edge:

"Come on, Homer. Japan will be fun. You liked Rashomon."
"That's not how I remember it. Besides, if we wanted to see Japanese people we could've gone to the zoo."
"Homer!"
"What? The guy who washes the elephants is Japanese. His name is Takashi. He's in my book club!"

and then the stewardess telling Bart to turn off his GameBoy because it fucks with the plane, he turns it off, "you're the boss," the plane nosedives

...how on earth is that last part a racial issue? Unless you mean her accent when she shrieks "turn it back on!"

it's not i just thought it was funny

o ok fair enough! Yeah I love that episode, I know a lot of ppl dont.

also the super advanced toilet "i am honored to accept your waste"

lmao and Homer just walking through the paper doors in the hotel. sorry im watching the episode on yotube

"its loaded with wasabi!" was a phrase used in our house a lot at one point, Ive no idea why.

Lisa is amazing for those reasons. She acts as a proxy for the square audience member who comments critically on the absurdity of what's going on. She is a manifestation of the smug audience member who questions continuity. Without her this show would just be Family Guy

I had this post in the back of my mind when I watched last night's episode (I don't often watch new ones, but I've been under the weather and couch-bound all weekend, and it was on). It was about an adult Lisa reflecting back on three of her birthdays--so right away, they're combining three formats that they've often fallen back on in the lean years: flashback episode, future episode and three-story compilation. One of the segments is about Lisa discovering, on her fourteenth birthday, that Marge is planning to leave Homer (blah blah blah scheme to get them back together), and another is about Lisa's eighteenth birthday coinciding with her first day at Harvard, where she meets her freshman-year roommate (hints of a possible lesbian affair to come are dropped). There's a scene where Bart, now a twenty-year-old dirtbag scoring with Harvard girls wanting to piss off their fathers, tells Lisa that if anyone deserves to be at Harvard, it's her. I dunno. The episode wasn't funny, well-written, well-structured or inventive (they've officially run out of clever riffs on the post-Trump, technophile future), but stuff like this really gets to me these days. Despite the ever-fluid temporal setting, I really have come to see Homer/Marge, and Bart/Lisa, as generational avatars, with the former as boomers (read: my parents) and the latter as whatever the post-Gen X, pre-millennial designation is (read: me), and when the series makes even the sloppiest attempt (as this probably was) to suggest anything about the long-term durability of the relationships within this family, well, I guess that's something of a soft spot for me.

So yeah, weak episode, but I was damn near in tears by the end of it.

On the Apu character isn't racist side as well. I suppose these days you'd say it was great they put a fully-rounded immigrant character on TV.

spanish speaking bumblebee man is really just a dumb running joke about the Spanish language in the US.

I always felt there was an affectionate pastiche of Chespirito, whom this was based on:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/29/chespirito-comedian-dies-simpsons-mexico-bumblebee-man

(I watched "El Chavo" mostly, his work was pretty surreal but I'm willing to bet -- without spending a few hours watching this again -- that it captures a certain sorta vibe his work had)

On the Apu character isn't racist side as well. I suppose these days you'd say it was great they put a fully-rounded immigrant character on TV.

you are insane

It seems pretty shitty to dismiss the concerns of the stereotyped/offended group in these kinds of scenarios. I have distinct memories of my Indian/South Asian friends - who were also Simpsons fans - stating in no uncertain terms that Apu was a racist caricature in the mid-90s, and it's pretty clear that the character is built around an offensive stereotype, no matter how nuanced or developed the character came to be. He still has *that* voice and *that* job and *that* appearance. There are still jokes/storylines/gags centered around Apu that I think are great, but yeah at heart we're talking about a racist caricature voiced by a white person specifically for that purpose.

I wish someone would make a documentary or something so we don't have to have this stupid argument

the trailer for which prompted this thread revive

The trailer pretty much lays it all out! I don't understand how anyone can watch the whole trailer and still have more to say about this!

I'm not dismissing your friend's concerns, but its not as if its just someone with a funny accent, no back-story, or that Apu is the butt of everyone's jokes. There is very little cruelty that I could see, and if some arseholes took that as license to make fun in the playground or what have you that's sad but that's how people behave in general, with no sensitivity at a certain age.

Like many I only watched The Simpsons to season 10 or so but in that time and through several eps they put Apu centre stage and specifically developed the character. Like Krusty and Skinner and others too.

saying it "isn't racist" when a bunch of other Indians/South Asians explicitly call it out as racist (like they do in the trailer, which incidentally does not include any of my friends) is literally dismissing their concerns.

Twenty years since they introduced Manjula :o Wonder how many episodes she's appeared in since.

Its the first time I am having this argument. Let me have it in peace thanks.

amusingly enough there's a recent Simpsons episode centering around Apu's nephew who in the end calls out Apu for being a tired and offensive stereotype, I was pretty surprised that they'd go there

dismissal vs disagreement

Ooh they begged him to join the Stereotypes bowling team, begged him.

haha yeah that's from what, season 7 or something?

The trailer pretty much lays it all out! I don't understand how anyone can watch the whole trailer and still have more to say about this!

have you ever uh been online before?

I hear that if a shark stops swimming it dies

i hear that all the sharks swimming in flooded houston freeways died when they stopped swimming

I tot see (now) why Apu is objectionable. I am unsurprised that The Simpsons' creator and staff, having grown up in the '70s, didn't see it that way. "Funny accents" were everywhere in comedy, being done by white comedians.

Considering that the show got its start on The Tracy Ullman Show, I'm a little surprised there weren't more "funny accent" characters from the get-go.

there are things in the simpsons that stick out as dated now (teachers smoking in school, homer strangling bart, the gay panic in the john waters episode) but apu is ott, and stories like Vinnie's are sobering, there's no getting around it. i'm not sure there's anything else in the show that is as offensive and dated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlRV6yxZUSQ

Well, the other Asian characters might qualify (eg akira(?) the Japanese waiter), certainly in terms of performance

not denying the show used plenty of stereotypes. this was the 90s, this was pre-internet. Apu was very bad, they should not have done that. it really sucks that this show contributed to the bullying of specific people by someone in a more powerful position. from what it sounds like, the voice actor purposefully used a stereotype because he thought it was funny. somewhere else i have read it wasn't that, and that the writers wrote him that way. i am not sure what the story is tbh. does the documentary clear this up? i know Azaria refused to be in it...

I am unsurprised that The Simpsons' creator and staff, having grown up in the '70s, didn't see it that way

didn't Harvard/National Lampoon played w a lot of ironic hate comedy?

https://imgur.com/gallery/H1X8R

https://longreads.com/2017/12/29/the-other-people-in-springfield

That's a really shitty way to respond.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/arts/television/the-simpsons-responds-to-criticism-about-apu.html

it's pretty obvious stuff but I loved Paper's takedown of this

http://www.papermag.com/the-simpsons-apu-2558301508.html

RIP The Simpsons

cancel the simpsons

some discussion here LONG DUK DONG

https://www.wpr.org/simpsons-problem-apu-drop-dead

The youtube regurgitation engine recently brought this to my attention and it made me a bit sad

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p8M2tg2RkIQ

I want the Lisa who rightfully recoiled from the sexist nonsense spouted by Talking Malibu Stacy to come forward in time and talk some sense into this Lisa.

fuck the Simpsons. worst possible response

They had an episode a few years ago where Utkarsh Ambudkar played Apu's hip nephew Pujya who criticized Apu for being a cliche. Then the nephew never returned and Apu remained the same.

I mean, Azaria himself said he was instructed to make Apu's accent "as offensive as possible" when he got the part. I'd almost respect The Simpsons more if they just said some version of "fuck yeah, we're out to offend people".

still not sure where this matt groening went given that he apparently had helped in the writing of this latest

doing deep Simpsons research and noticing a LOT of notes from MG about removing racist/ableist/homophobic jokes pic.twitter.com/JJBl2cCjPy

— Wow, Bob Mackey! (@bobservo) July 27, 2016

good job getting anyone to gaf about a new simpsons episode tho

update pic.twitter.com/wB0CMLvogl

— MGK Hockey 1234 (@mightygodking) April 10, 2018

Lisa is the milkshake duck Simpsons character

i don't like her saying it was "inoffensive". she does not get to decide what is offensive or not. it is a misuse of power. the show is now a bully.