Jessica Lynch Ad Nauseum.

also i don't think it's possible for anyone to be as fed up as you

I have, and it was briefly heartening, but it's not like she's tried very hard to undo said angle.

.....also i don't think it's possible for anyone to be as fed up as you

Hmmmm. Probably true.

Alex i don't think that's quite fair, she was FURIOUS at the military and the media and excoriated them in no uncertain terms

Didn't stop her from snatching up a book deal, though, did it.

Considering what she's done with it, THAT'S entryism.

You forgot the part where she skydives with President George W. Bush from a C130 through heavy flak onto the deck of the U.S.S. Yorktown. That was awesome!

Maybe she should've considered that before signing up.

But I haven't really been looking, either.

(x-post)

hi jess!

it depends on where the military puts you.

where is MILLAR?!

I suppose not acting like a jackoff would also help.

why shouldn't she grab her chance to make a fast buck?

Because it's a fast buck at the expense of the truth.

the whole thing makes me want to puke.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/990040.asp?

Also, the lead story on "60 Minutes" last night was about the Army mechanic who was the real hero in the whole situation (took out 7 Iraqi soldier about to fire a mortar at the tractor-trailer that Jessica Lynch's truck ran into - while being a lousy shot) and how nobody knows who he is because of the Lynch hype. Shoshanna Johnson and another injured g.i. at the scene were interviewed as well.

reputedly, when US soldiers showed up in her hospital, they said something like "we're US soldiers!" and she said "I'm a soldier too".

As far as her joining the military, sometimes the options are few and far between for people to get out of backwoods towns like that (due to below average grades, lack of funds, etc), so the military seems like the best option. Growing up where I did, it was a brief consideration for me as well. Many people don't understand what it's like, I suppose.

And hell, if she can make some money after getting shot up, terribly injured, raped, etc., who am I to tell her she shouldn't?

I know what you're saying though stence, do you believe the medical reports or not? who were the doctors? and the whole line of questioning makes one a little sick and sad.

"The book does cover the subject," spokesman Stephen Goodwin told The Associated Press. "It's a very difficult subject."

From CNN.com, maybe he's lying?

It may bother me more than the average bear because I'm constantly surrounded by it (whereas you may find it easier to tune it out and ignore it). Moreover, just because I happen to work in/for the media, that doesn't mean I automatically approve/endorse/espouse/believe in every angle presented by that particular wing of the media.

I'm completely sick of the media feeding frenzy over Lynch, but by the same token, I don't think Lynch herself (or her family) is doing that much to dispell the hype. Or at least not yet.

In other words, should she not take the money and the book deal and all the rah-rah just because it irritates some people (who, unfortunately, are in the minority compared with the people who will buy the book and see the movie)?

The ceaseless propaganda and mythologizing.

yeah but on the other hand why should Lynch or her family do anything to dispell the hype? This is her one chance to pull herself out of working-class poverty, so why would she pass it up? Most people obviously don't get a chance like that at all.

Fair enough, but it paints her as a bit of an opportunist, especially when further evidence is coming to light that a great portion of the tale was fabricated/augmented/enhanced to begin with.

In other words, should she not take the money and the book deal and all the rah-rah just because it irritates some people (who, unfortunately, are in the minority compared with the people who will buy the book and see the movie)?

No, she shouldn't, especially if those same "some people" happen to be correct in their suspicions that the story she'd be making said money on is largely a fabrication/propaganda tool.

The Pentagon initially put out the story that Private Lynch - a slight woman who was just 19 at the time - had been wounded by Iraqi gunfire but had kept fighting until her ammunition ran out.

But she told [Diane] Sawyer that she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that her gun had jammed during the chaos.

"I'm not about to take credit for something I didn't do," she said.

"I did not shoot - not a round, nothing. I went down praying to my knees - that's the last thing I remember."

Initial reports also suggested that Miss Lynch had been abused after she came round in the hospital. She says that again was untrue - there was no mistreatment, and one nurse used to sing to her.

She said she was grateful to the American special forces team which rescued her but, asked whether the Pentagon's subsequent portrayal of her rescue bothered her, she said: "Yes, it does. They used me as a way to symbolise all this stuff. It's wrong."

with this:

Fair enough, but it paints her as a bit of an opportunist, especially when further evidence is coming to light that a great portion of the tale was fabricated/augmented/enhanced to begin with.

No, she shouldn't, especially if those same "some people" happen to be correct in their suspicions that the story she'd be making said money on is largely a fabrication/propaganda tool.

Have you read her story yet? If she's dead set on going back to being a normal person, why write a book? Why allow yourself to be photographed next to a sign (mounted in front of her own home) that reads "Jessica Lynch is a Real American Hero"?

I mean really alex your posts aren't too different from the freerepublic types screaming 'get her off the tv' and 'send her back to iraq' cuz she ain't toeing their party line

I don't think she should've been in Iraq in the first place.

oh, and also, veterans and ESPECIALLY returning veterans from iraq are gonna be alot more able to disspell the 'hype' than disgruntled and incredibly fucking privileged newsjockeys.

She'd hardly your average veteran, is she.

Alex, her side of the story ("I'm not a hero") is clearly not the Pentagon's ("She was shot, stabbed, and fought off the Iraqis").

True, but she's still enjoying the fruits of the Pentagon's spin.

She's the one that joined the army due to an unquestioning belief in her government's foreign policy, jack, not me.

Also, you are totally wrong on her reason for joining the Army, so as far as I'm concerned you're spinning just as much as any Pentagon flack.

Who here wants to have the rest of their life dictated by a belief they held when they were 17?

Is every returning veteran treated this way? I think not.

Well in her shoes what would you do, upon return to the country, faced with going back to your rural hometown, complete with some rather serious and presumably lost-lasting injuries both mental and physical?

I'd take greater pains to recuse myself from the story if I didn't necessarily agree with its account of the actual proceedings.

why is it wrong that she benefit? She was injured in a warzone, people wanna hear her story (for better or worse). You're in journalism, why is that so difficult to understand?

I'm not saying it's wrong that she's benefitted....she's suffered and she's earned compensation, but is she really due any greater compensation than, say, the afore-mentioned Shoshona Johnson? By the way, simply because I happen to work in journalism doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to have my own opinion.

Also, you are totally wrong on her reason for joining the Army, so as far as I'm concerned you're spinning just as much as any Pentagon flack.

Well, she's quoted as joining the army to "see the world" and is also quoted as saying that she "wanted to to go and serve my country," so if you call that spin, so be it, but it came from her own little mouth.

It's not that I'm not curious, Stence, it's that I see her as a bit of a hypocrite.

As long as she's being so forthcoming (as you see it), why doesn't she address this issue too, then?

She's renouncing the government's spin, yet still cashing-in.

I don't. I don't think she has much power over the producers and publishers. They're going to take her story and tweak it for "creative" purposes because it'll sell more/do better. People are fucked up when the dollar is involved.

What is so offensive about "cashing in"?

Alex, there's a rather vast fucking gap between "I want to serve my country" and "I have unquestioning faith in authority" and your entire line of reasoning here is getting BEYOND offensive on this particular point.

You work in journalism, Alex--why don't you put forth a story about Shoshona Johnson? What the fuck is Jessica Lynch supposed to do in the aftermath of all this? Would you turn down these offers on some convoluted "principals"? "Haha fuck my family's and my futures, I got some STANDARDS to uphold for the offended anti-war journo community!"

No, Alex, you wouldn't.

millions of xposts--Jeanne also OTM, and also who here knows what Jessica Lynch's book says? Note that the book Alex pictorials up top, as well as quite a few others I've seen taking up space, aren't hers.

Stence, I swear to god, you can be so fucking patronizing sometimes. I've SEEN that article, but I don't think it's ENOUGH!!!!

Jeez, it's not like a compared you to a rapist or anything. I still think Blount should apologize for that.

About $4million says Alex hasn't. I swear to god, I'll fucking change the wiring instructions right now and steal this cash and wire it if he's read this thing.

I'm almost 100% sure though, teeny, that she has a separate deal for an upcoming book? This is what I read--though I could be thinking of her interview deals instead.

::::sigh:::: I work at a news magazine. This does not, however, mean, I have free reign to having whatever opinions I might have published therein.

What the fuck is Jessica Lynch supposed to do in the aftermath of all this? Would you turn down these offers on some convoluted "principals"?

I would if they didn't coincide with my version of the events and basically rendered me an opportunist and a hypocrite.

Note that the book Alex pictorials up top, as well as quite a few others I've seen taking up space, aren't hers.

I cited said book as an example of the story's overkill.

And she's cashing in not by repeating the party line but by telling only what she knows and questioning how her image was used.

Plus Shoshanna was one of a group of people, and everyone kinda knew their situation, right? Jessica Lynch was out there, and no one knew where she was at for awhile, if I'm remembering events correctly. That's a more "compelling tale".

(sorry, bad joke)

I haven't read any of these books, but your nonanswer to my question tells me you haven't either. So shut up, especially if you're going to sit there and pass judgements on people you don't even know because they joined the military.

All I have seen from Jessica Lynch herself is her attempts to set the story straight. I have seen NOTHING from dyson or Alex that proves she's getting ANYTHING out of the media hype at all--I have read she had a book deal on something that is yet-to-be-published, but that's about it!

This is just disgusting behavior as far as I'm concerned. The other people aren't getting as much "press time" because the Lynch story is more compelling in theory--again, Alex, you should know this better than anyone else here. And xpost with teeny--yes, I've seen Lynch mention them as well. What is she supposed to do?

I haven't read the book (and you probably haven't either), but that was never my point. It's her book deal that I'm most curious about. I only cited the above book, once again, as another example of the story's overkill.

Anyone here who says they wouldn't do the same is, IMO, a complete liar.

xpost: Alex, have you read her book that you are bitching about then? I mean you're calling her a hypocrite...got an advance copy you read or something?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1081207,00.html

she probably was quite overwhelmed with everything when she got back but i don't think her age is a relevant excuse. and i'm sure most people (probably even me) would have been "yes, yes i did courageously fire every round from my weapon in self defense, yadda yadda". i dare say disputing what the pentagon says i quite brave & took guts.

i was making assumptions about what the book was going to be like based on what i've seen already & that is wrong - lock me up & throw away the key.

i also think people should be accountable for things that bear their name. that's all.

I'll second that.

Shit blount xpost!

Well, I can't speak for Dyson, but I'd slap an injunction on your ass and that would be that.

dyson and Alex, you are free to your opinions on whether or not this issue has been overhyped. However, it is disingenuous and more than a tiny bit assholish to blame Jessica Lynch for any myths or half-truths perpetrated by the media, the Pentagon, etc., because she's come out, rather shockingly, and disputed the points she feels are erroneous.

If you think the media or the government are assholes, fair enough (SIT DOWN EVERYONE, STORY AT 11, JOURNOS AND POLITICIANS IN BEING SHITHEADS OCCASIONALLY!! OH NO!! etc), but Alex, you stopped about thisshort of calling Lynch a whore.

xpost, no dyson, that's not exactly what I'm saying but feel free to totally side step the point. Don't you--wait for it--have yourself to go fuck anyway?

Say WHAT? Look, Ally, I don't know where you're going with this, but you're way out of line.

dyson & alex go fuck themselves in nyc

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), November 10th, 2003 3:22 PM. (vassifer) (later)

The reason why the "You work in journalism" thing keeps cropping up on this thread is that, as someone who works in the media, it is completely inconceivable to me that you aren't rather jaded to the concept that the subject of hype usually isn't the propegator of the hype in terms of the daily American news.

You tell me how I am out of line besides how I just nailed down the point you were trying to make in a more blunt term, ie sell-out lying money whore, and I will apologize to you. But as far as I'm concerned, that's exactly what you said on this thread and this is exactly why I'm getting really offended here.

There also seems to be a lot of weird conflicting stuff going around about her treatment; apparently the book does reveal that she was raped but according to a news report she also says she wasn't mistreated by her captors and they never so much as slapped her (which contradicts the Iraqi dude who was credited for helping the soldiers locate her). So, she was raped but not mistreated? Huh? Perhaps this is a result from differing motivations b/w lynch and the ghostwriter, I dunno. The book isn't published until tomorrow.

Of course I'm jaded to the hype and hoopla of the media, but it's not the media I'm shocked by (sick of it yes, shocked by no). It's Lynch's handling of it (or, possibly, how I'm perceiving her handling of it. You may think she's handling it with more grace and dignity. I, however, beg to differ).

Leave "rockism" out of this, please. This thread has nothing to do with music.

In terms of my opinions about the military, I have nothing but disdain for the current aministration's foreign policy and I think we have no business being in Iraq, and that completely colors my perception of related topics like the Lynch story (in much the same way I'm sickened and appalled by people who can't seem to differentiate between Al Qaeda and Iraq).

She said the Pentagon lied. She said it on national television. That to me is a vigillant act. How you can call her a hypocrite is baffling. I don't even see the connection. So she gets some cash for a book deal -- a fee that will be split a bunch of ways between editors, publishers, marketers, etc, leaving the Lynch family with less than $1 million, if that matters to you. Like I said, I honestly don't think she has/had much power whatsoever to affect Hollywood's movie portrayal or the book's portrayal of her story. Plus, if she's going to sue, I doubt the Lynch family can afford a lawer with a track record comparable to a laywer hired by a production or publishing house. Lynch called the gov't's bluff by saying the fabricated a bunch of stuff. More people heard that than are going to go out and buy the book!!!

I never once said she deserved the ordeal she went through or suggested she wasn't brave.

alex (i enjoy your other posts btw ) why are you 'fed up'? and why do 'you care'?

Thanks, Kephm. Please believe me that I had no real intentions to have this thread become as vindictive as it has become (and I apologize if my opinions on the subject hit closer to home, being that you know people actually involved.) Someone above suggested that Lynch isn't that media-savvy, and that's probably a big part of this (along with being overwhelmed). I don't honestly harbour any ill-will towards her. Believe me. I'm more dismissive of the both the media's and the government's handling of it (and, in turn, feel Jessica could've handled some of it a bit better). I feel (and Jessica has suggested as much) that the entire story was trumped up to sway more support for the war.

I think I'm 'fed up' merely because the story seems inescapable (and, as has been labouriously pointed out, I work for the mainstream media in an environment that is positively saturated by the story (and the Lacey Peterson story and the Elizabeth Smart story and the Kobe Bryant story and.... In the wake of all the hoopla regarding the tv movie and the Bragg book and the cover story of the magazine I happen to work for, I think it just reached a fever pitch for me. In retrospect, I apologize if some of my comments seemed blithe and or needlessly flippant, but like I said...I'm fed up with it.

Not at all, in fact. My position at the magazine is to act as a liaison between our network of correspondents, bureaus and reporters in the field (around the world) and the editorial staff here in NYC. I assign stories, make sure everyone's where they're supposed to be and make sure the flow of information is maintained. I've written and reported from the magazine in the past, but never regarding issues of this kind, and the writing I do outside of the magazine has nothing to do with news, current events, politics, etc.

I've heard of 'Monday morning quarterbacking' but jeez...

ok. i think it was the title of the thread that got to me.
war sucks

xpost

Unable to secure rights to Lynch's story, producer Dan Paulson relied on Mohammed al-Rehaief's newly published book, "Because Each Life Is Precious," about the rescue and his role in it. That's from the Arizona Republic. Also, the DOD collaborated on the film, but did not have final script approval.)

I think this thread is really fucking gross, and reeking of privilege. And jeez, for all of you who know so much about how Lynch is a "sellout": You do realize that she did apply at Wal-Mart before enlisting, and she got turned down -- and yes, the idea of joining the army in order to see the world may seem simplistic to some, but have you ever seen the ads the military blankets all over youth-oriented programming here in the states -- and that was a major impetus in her enlisting? And how can someone be a "sellout" when they're speaking about their principles, and how they feel violated by how they're being used? Blount (and Ally, and Jeanne) is pretty OTM earlier in this thread. Ugh.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the moral resolve or personal opinions of the enlistees in the US defense forces, who are doing a job--I mean, just cos they work for the military doesn't mean they have a say in what the military does...or does that comment only work for magazine news desk editors?

Why the rush to book deals? Why the rush to brand people as heroes?

"Rumsfield Lies?!?!? And he smells like Depends!?!?!"

What, you think the Pentagon would throw her in jail for that? She was on the way out as it was.

Also, I like pie.

xpost I've been fuct for a long time! I also like pie! Pumpkin pie!

my opinion on this matter wouldn't have been different otherwise, but i spent some time a few weeks ago with a friend's sister, about ms. lynch's age, who is likewise from a lower-working-class background and likewise in the armed forces...but also very skeptical about geo. bush. so the insults flung in jessica lynch's direction have a kind of personal sting.

Doing what I described would have completely ostracized herself from her hicktown family and friends. Still, if she can volunteer to die in the army, she can sacrifice her family and friends and money to do the right thing and fight the real enemy of the united states right now.

it just seems this would be a topic close to his heart

and i like the way he sticks up for people in the military against stereotyping

this thread does make me sad but thankfully i seem to be in the majority opinion

For what? For crashing an army truck and passing out? For telling people months after it matters that stories about her were bullshit?

The noblelest thing is to sacrifice oneself for the greater good. Most people never have a good chance to do this. She did, and she blew it. She brings shame to her people.

that's not entirely a fair summarization of what happened, since her part of the convoy had been ambushed by Iraqi troops. Perhaps you would do a better job driving a truck under enemy fire, though?

Do I get a bronze star for crashing an army truck?

Oh but amateur!st, this entire thread is a troll - a meta-troll, if you will.

Then she got a bronze star for passing out?

Right now, I dont' give a damn anymore. I'm sick of the story (which was my impetus for the thread in the first place), but more than that I'm truly put off by the fact that a serious discussion (i.e. not like thread on ILM wherein the subject matter is always something as temporal and comparitively trivial as music) seemingly couldn't take place here without people resorting to needless wind-ups and personal insults (hence my post for Blount to go fuck himself). Fine, go put Jessica Lynch's face on a stamp. Whatever.

* excepting narcissism

I assume at this point your tongue is piercing your cheek.

Also, IN WHAT UNIVERSE IS IT SHOCKING OR SURPRISING THAT ALEX IS BEING OBSTINATE AND STUBBORN IN THE FACE OF ALL CONTRADICTORY EVIDENCE???

Also, I cordially invite Fletrejet to fuck off.

Stence, it's the flag-waving bozos that want to make her some sort've icon!!!!!

The wanting to joint the army "to see the world" line does disturb me - but that's mostly because from my priveleged middle-class English background I can't imagine anyone who wanted to see the world using the army as an early point of call - so ignore that. Especially as it seems to dovetail with the fact that she joined the army and ended up getting sent to Iraq after being turned down for Wal-Mart. Quite frankly, it scares me that real opportunities can be that scarce in any rich, developed nation (this isn't petty point-scoring - I'm sure it happens in the UK as well).

it's expensive to travel abroad, out of reach for many people

the army will send you to germany...italy...turkey...japan...

Pardon me, Stence. I'm feeling a bit defensive, and in my ire I read that as an assertion that I was in some way a "flag-waving bozo". Bozo, maybe, but never a flag-waver, thank you very much.

to paint me with a brush that suggests that I think every solitary individual in the armed forces is a jarheaded, jingoistic warmonger is a cop-out and a disservice..

::::sigh::::

Okay, I'll just march right into the managing editor's office and flush my job down the toilent, shall I? Yeah, GOOD PLAN!

For what it's worth, this mess predates Kobe and Lacey et al., and the particular magazine I work for can hardly be accused of focussing on the postive aspects of the current administration's handling of said mess.

http://i.timeinc.net/time/images/covers/1101031006cov_white.gif http://i.timeinc.net/time/images/covers/1101030901cov_white.gif http://i.timeinc.net/time/images/covers/1101030721cov_white.gif http://i.timeinc.net/time/images/covers/1101030714cov_white.gif http://i.timeinc.net/time/images/covers/1101030303cov_white.gif

I'm just saying.. not imagining that you could stop the major media feeding frenzy but you know, slow it a little bit at least. Anyway, what is the rationale.. do you find most media people feel a sense of responsibility to report on real news? Are they thrilled to report on Jessia Lynch 'cause it's the hot new story or doing this grudgingly or completely ambivalent and just going with the flow?

There's more important stories to be outraged over than Jessica Lynch.

He said they were sort of more pre-occupied with her health condition, and how so many of the bones in her body were broken at the time. I just don't understand how anyone can accuse this battered, crippled twenty-year old girl of being a cash-cow-type-of-calculating mastermind, or desirous of the praise of "winning" a bronze medal she never asked for in the first place. She can't even walk right, for fuck's sake

oops x post

Also, I'm pretty sure everyone here is aware there are far more disgusting things going on in this conflict than this controversy here; but if this controversy here brings attention to the issues at hand then (that's a good thing) (TM).

I sincerely sympathize with her and her family, having to put up with this while she's trying to recover..

My Ryan Adams-loving roommate made fun of her accent.

http://www.militarycorruption.com/PFCLynch.htm