Indignant Bicyclists (and pedestrians!)

http://www.klassiskebiler.dk/museum/indhold/italy/fiat/500/500.jpg

Bicyclists can be some of the thickest people around. Thick as in mental sense. Thick as in the "you bloody idiot, why the hell don't you see that there's a perfectly good sidewalk for you to ride your bike on?" sense. Thick as in the "Hey, you dillweed, look at the disabled vets riding around in those motorized wheelchairs -- do YOU see THEM taking up the whole bloody lane here? Why is it that they can ride around in their bulky wheelchairs and people can still drive on the outer lane and you and your skinnier ass take up half the lane?" sense.

*revs up Orpheus* I'm gonna get me some idjits.

One thing I do agree with Dee about is sidewalks. Both Tokyo and Berlin are bike-friendly cities where people ride on the sidewalk, and it works out really well. You feel safe as you cycle, it puts the pleasure back into it knowing you're not going to die at any moment. Pedestrians get used to the friendly sound of bicycle bells behind them, and make way with grace. Try that in London and people will curse your mother and cast aspersions on your chosen sexual orientation.

Dee your post is ignorant and offensive.

Ed, Berlin has demarcated cycle lanes, but Tokyo doesn't.

Berlin cycle lanes are amphibious. They route on and off sidewalks, they snake around according to context.

Don't get me started on cars in the City. The Congestion Charge should be more like £500. Or perhaps a finger.

Oh, and I agree with Kate: the smugness of pedestrians and cyclists is nothing compared to the smugness of the drivers, who think they own the roads just because they have the bigger, scarier vehicle.

About a month ago, HSA and I were trying to cross a street with a bike lane, and this cyclist was coming, so we tried to step out of the cycle lane back onto the curb, but the bastard cut around BEHIND US (going the wrong way down a one-way street I might add) forcing us out into the traffic lane (fortunately there were no cars coming) and SHOUTING AT US to add insult to injury.

I wish I had a big metal hook thing with a loop on the end of it, to pull cyclists off their bikes when they behave like that. Grrrrr.

Er, what else can they do? Fly in the air?

Guilt is constructive and soul-forming, though. Your guilt will make you a better driver. It's arguable that lack of guilt makes cyclists worse road-users and even kills some of them. 'How can I die when I am morally superior?'

But there is this certain breed of hardcore biker that are just complete fucking assholes! They will, for instance, place themselves in blatantly dangerous positions and then cuss out the car that had to swerve or slam on the brakes to avoid hitting them. I just want to shake them and be like "stop being such a fucking dickhead!!!"

Because they have the moral right to do so? But seriously, we seem to have another example of cultural differences at work here. Bikers really aren't smug in Finland, but drivers still often get mad at them because they use the car lane and slow the cars down. There isn't much alternative, however, because it forbidden for someone over 12 to ride a bike on the sidewalk, and there aren't bike lanes everywhere. I wish there were.

But there is this certain breed of hardcore biker that are just complete fucking assholes! They will, for instance, place themselves in blatantly dangerous positions and then cuss out the car that had to swerve or slam on the brakes to avoid hitting them.

Replace "car" with "pedestrian" and this is some of the behaviour that I've experienced. Their moral high ground is completely soggy.

I went to Thailand and was completely appalled by the way traffic wasn't controlled. It could take 20 minutes -- and a lot of courage -- to cross a road like the ring surrounding central Chiang Mai. Pollution was awful. In Bangkok things were better: the sheer volume of traffic just brought everything to a total halt, one gigantic traffic jam. The air was awful, though.

I bet he wouldn't garner as much abuse as he does if he weren't, to quote some ILX post written ages past, "a minor indie celebrity".

But I digress.

I have friends who do Critical Mass every time it happens, and they're the nicest people I know. This morning I also saw a cyclist cut off a couple, with a baby, no less, while they were crossing on a walk signal on 14th Street. Very annoying. But in the current state of things the tension between angry cyclists and angry drivers is bound to continue, at least until the public transportation system is straightened out (in NYC, speaking for myself) or until Gleeminex becomes mandatory. Whatever happens first.

He's MOMUS. He exists to exert his pomposity on this board and project his own fears onto other people. Go look for any of the Vice or Kill Bill threads. This is what he does, and I'm frankly sick of it.

I'm leaving this thread now because I'm starting to get annoyed.

I have tried, in the past, to actually engage Momus on topics, and to have reasonable debate. I gave up trying to do this with him on ILX a few years ago, because he is guilty of that classic ILXer stance of just ignoring any debate he can't argue with. So I just stopped trying a long time ago. Yeah, I should be more grown up, and just ignore the bait in the first place, but it's easier and more satisfying to rattle off a one-line insult than it is to come up with a complex and well-thought-out line of reasoning which is only going to be ignored, or twisted to suit the bugbears of the theory he's currently developping.

There are a lot of people on ILX who write like they are just developping or refining their own particular political or aesthetic theories in public, rather than having an actual conversation with other people and interacting with them. I know I'm guilty of this, too, but today it is getting on my nerves.

Back on topic, sorta: So a shifty fellow offered to build me a bike for fifty bucks the other day. Didn't want cash up front, gave me a business card. Are such fellows to be trusted?

that is all.

Guilt I think is the imaginative internalisation of another person's perspective of your own behaviour, with an emphasis on what you might be doing that inconveniences or hurts that other person. In Japan they don't just say 'Excuse me', they say 'Sumimasen!' -- 'I am inexcusable!' because they figure that even to ask to be excused by him puts an extra burden on the already-wronged person. That may be taking things a little too far, but it's nice. I am totally into people bowing to each other (though possibly not while driving).

(Bows low to Kate.)

In London I don't ride a bike because drivers cut you up if they can, but these are more likely to be commercial drivers, not private ones. Our flat is over the couriers' favourite pub and two weeks ago there was a small Reclaim The Streets circuit that went past the Duke with police escort and its sound system blaring. Couriers have also been graffing stencils at intersections where their colleagues have been killed, but since the '80s when they started the trade here, there's only been 10 or so courier deaths. Most of the couriers I speak to don't have hassle with pedestrians; the only problem is when pedestrians *think* the cyclists are bearing down, freeze in the crossing, then jerk back and forth before running across the road. Couriers call this series of moves the Funky Chicken. Also, office workers, remember that whenever you beller down the phone that you need a bike for pickup in ten minutes, that cyclist is going to run every light possible to get to you on time, so don't moan when they have to do it for someone else. You, the user of their services, create the demand for them to cut corners.

On Fridays when there are a hundred couriers drinking on my road, woe betide the people who work at the bottom of our street who happen to drive SUVs - they have to run a gauntlet of jeers from the fittest people in London. And rightly so.

Also, in London at least, cyclists are legally allowed to use the bus lanes, and it's usually the bus holding the bikes up, not vice versa.

I do not have a problem with bikers when the obey traffic laws, are considerate of other road-users, use the nice warning shouts of "On your right" etc. to not just warn you that they are coming, but also which side they'll be on, etc. etc.

But bikers are the only segment of road-users who seem to think that their moral high ground somehow excuses them ANY legal or considerate guidelines. If cars acted the way that cyclists do as much of the time, they'd be given tickets or have their lisences revoked. (e.g. the behaviour described in Ambrose's post.) I wish there were some sort of cyclists' test, the same way there is a drivers' test. AND THAT THERE WERE SOME KIND OF WAY TO ENFORCE IT.

Walking along the Canal, for instance, which is something I do very frequently - I'm astonished at the difference between cyclists' behaviour, and the difference it makes in the pedestrian experience. For example, there are many very narrow and low-hanging bridges, and there are signs stating "cyclists dismount under low bridges". Do they? You're lucky if you get a whistle when you're halfway through the tunnel!

All cyclists are not the same, and I am sorry for tarring them with the same brush. But the behaviour of many cyclists in terms of simply ignoring the highway code completely erradicates any moral high ground they may have claimed.

Anyway...

::slaps Pink a high five::

But I guess in the traffic cop hierarchy, they don't think that's as cool as hanging out on the M1 with a speed gun.

Having just read some nasty critic describing Stereolab with the comment 'when you add avant garde to middle class middlebrow, you just get more middlebrow', this puts me in mind of poor old Mary, who probably was quite a dithery cyclist because, like me, she was working arrangements out in her head while pedalling.

Kate has a point though: i've run red lights in front of police cars and not been stopped/fined, there do seem to be double standards. Which is obviously great! (joke)

how about the worst bug bear of all though: CARS PARKED ON CYCLE LANES. Which they seem to be able to do legally. Until they sort this out, the whole thing about cyclists using lanes/bus lanes responsibly is a bit of a mockery.

(The worst offenders I've seen in bicycling in the morning mist are not matrons or even the middle classes, but bizarre old men who seem to be cycling their entire lives around in boxes dragged behind their bikes.)

I also hate dithering pedestrians and have been known to shout MOVE IT OR LOSE IT to shock slowies on Oxford Street.

(N.B., Suzy, the Dirt Queen was actually a mad fast bicyclist - I tried to keep up with her on foot once and she was actually a very good cyclist. In long skirts and everything.)

http://recreation.bombardier.com/_Images/embrio_3-4.jpg

<less reasonable>but having said that, all car drivers can eat a bag of dicks</less reasonable>

(I'm not sure if that's what you posted cause of the filter, but I'm it just reminded me.)

Remember all the fuss on the internet? And then it turned out to be totally lame? I'd never seen one in the flesh before. God, it looked stupid. It didn't look like it came from the future, it looked like it came from a technologically unsound 1950s sci fi film.

(I still think it's a good idea, though.)

(And Ed, hon, I post from the perspective of a driver who relies on certain major thoroughfares to get to school and work and who is a bit fed up with all the bicyclists in this area who pedal along in the middle of the lane they're in. This is a neighborhood with a veterans' hospital. I've seen veterans putt along with their motorized wheelchairs and they never have a problem with sticking to the side. We drivers can usually drive past these disabled people without worrying if we're going to run over them.)

(But also I must point out that it was one of those days.)

(One of those, "Argh I hate driving I hate it I hate it I hate it I hate it I think it's a horrible thing to have to do and I'm so sick of driving and ack!" days.)

(Ending parenthetical statements now. It's time for me to leave.)

In other words...TS: indignant bicyclists vs. ignorant motorists

I just fancy going for a drive after reading some of the bollocks written on this thread, shame I don't have a license

Well, actually...

For a start, considering the volume of pedestrians in London, yes, having a car stopped in the crosswalk is a serious problem. London streets are narrow enough without having a car in the way. It's quite dangerous when you are forced to walk out into traffic just to get around. And inconvenient and annoying when there are 30 other pedestrians also trying to squeeze through the same narrow gap.

Bicycles, Centaurs, and Man-Faced Ox-Creatures: Ontological Instability in Flann O'Brien, Lucretius, Empedocles, and Piero de Cosimo.

Links in this post may or may not have been read by the author.

I should also mention that I'm a lot less likely to symphatize with the bike movement when one of their most notable propaganda campaigns is this.

There was this one time though, when me and some girls were waiting outside a restaurant when a cyclist in bright yellow rain coat and rain pants biked by. I watched him go by and smiled at his outfit. He turned around on his bike, cycled back, stopped and asked us if we had a problem with him. And we were like, "No, we liked your yellow outfit". And I thought, "What a psycho!"

and i just got my old bike recently! i had to drop thirty bucks on a new seat tho; my ass must be way more bony than when i was a hott teen, three days commuting i'm hurting.

As a cyclist in London, I have started to get uppity about other cyclists who behave like "cunts". My gripes about motorists are the usual ones, but I get so irritated by my fellow two-wheelers who flout traffic-lights, pedestrain crossings, giving way at roundabouts, etc etc. I also fail to see what's so wrong with getting out of the way of a car who's going faster than you.

That said, I reckon that people co-exist pretty well in London, despite themselves.

That leaves Momus as the redeeming feature of this thread.

Next we will be reading "Hongro makes a good point about the aesthetics of James Brown"

Do you get annoyed by people who treat you like an impure, spoiled yuppie for having a job that requires an auto commute?

all i have time to say is go suck on an exhaust pipe, you awful, awful person.

that's all i have to say re this.

I disagree with the existance of bicycles in urban areas, at least in the United States. They all ride like fucking psychos! I mean, I'm sorry, whether or not morality is involved, right, whatever: you are SMALLER than the cars. You are WEAKER than the cars. So why are you fucking with the cars? This says far more about bicyclists in Manhattan's mental abilities than it does about the assholishness of car drivers.

God gave us all feet!! We should use them!

I am also an asshole.

If it weren't for guilt I'd be an absolute monster.

[i put in "absolute" so you don't have to]

By the way, has it occurred to any of the auto-sympathizers who just haaaaave to use cars to get to work that some people will never be able to afford a car and have to use public transit no matter how bad it is? Hm, I wonder why they act so ANGRY when they have to share the street with you...

GUILT! GUILT! GUILT!

Come on, it's good for you. Like castor oil.

Drink up.

Is there a parallel universe where this makes sense? (IOW Since when does "riding a bicycle" = "taking public transportation"?)

Ann, I don't think any of the city dwellers bashing the bikers are bashing them in favor of their own car usage.

(I'm not particularly fond of bikers myself, but that may just be resentment due to the fact that I could never survive on a bike because of my piss-poor eyesight, even with lenses. Not to mention that bikes these days seem to cost a bit more than I can imagine a minimum-wage worker -- much less a sub-minimum-wage illegal immigrant worker -- being able to koff up anyway.)

(guilt)

You could try making one rather than expecting people to read your mind.

This question is so stupid it hurts.

I'm imagining a stooped, thin 57-year-old man with a wisp of beard, shuffling out of a pastel-pink prefab apartment building near the Rosemont Hilton. Scuttling under the shadow of the "municipal" water tower -- a giant upside-down fishing bobber painted with a football-field-size rose -- our hero dodges the traffic from the city till he gets to the meridian, on which he balances as, choking on fumes and humming a Dolly Parton tune in a sweet creaky tenor, he walks the two chilly miles to cross the perilous lanes of hurrying drivers again to reach the gas station. There he breakfasts on a stale bear claw and dons a uniform cap; he sells giant slurpees to kids from Arlington Heights, out in Dad's hum-vee, pockets packed with tabs of acid, ready to go play at the House on the Rock, feeling subversive... he makes their change while they laugh at his choice of radio station. Mainstream radio sucks, dude! Quietly, he steals pseudoephedrine from behind the counter as he readies for the nighttime hours... at four A.M. he finally passes the cap to the second child of his high school sweetheart, who left him forty years ago.

-- TOMBOT (dumbas...), November 12th, 2003."

So are you saying there are no poor people in suburbs? Or that there IS public transit in suburbs?

I do KNOW some people who have cars. According to them, the expense never ends.

-- Dan Perry (djperr...), November 12th, 2003."

Actually, I was just expecting you to have read the thread. Sorry. I commit non sequiturs myself -- we're all OK, Mr. Perry.

Erm, what was the current minimum wage in the U.S. again? Oh, yes: $5.15 an hour. Even I could do the math on that, I think... let's seeeeee... hmm... this is a really hard problem but I'll get to the bottom of it, I promise...

??

Huzzah! I'll bet he can't even ride a tricycle. Loser.

(Damn, anybody got a photo of Lister?)

Also, why don't you just admit that you left out a fairly crucial clause from your little self-righteous rant and be done with it?

(yeesh excuse me verbal postmodernisme)

"PISS OFF!!!" (sound of hamster firing semiautomatic)

Almost 10 years ago, now. I don't know how much inflation there has been but the first Gulf War jacked up the gasoline prices you referenced earlier to similar (note: I'm not saying the same!) levels when this first was going on.

Hm. Ok, thanks. But I swear, I've seen some pretty damned squalid-looking housing out there, driving by (ha ha in the car of my friend from Arlington Heights who won't speak to me after I went off on his spoiledosity after the wasabi onion-ring incident)... it just makes me want to slit my wrists thinking how god fucking awful it must be to be poor in a suburb. I mean god fucking awful. Again, I've never experienced it, but I have enough imagination to thank my lucky stars that, if they couldn't make it or were too scared to try the city, my parents at least had the sense to stay out in the nice starry-skied woods...

then again, maybe it's grate.

That said, I've seen plenty of dickheaded moves from bike messengers in downtown Chicago to last me a lifetime. That's hard to defend.

haha, when, as a pedestrian, I hear this behind me I tend to panic. I'll be like "on my left!? left.. left.. MOVE TO THE LEFT!!!" and then I almost get run over.

that's fine, but y'all still need to sloooowww down.

I cycle on the pavement all the time. I go on the road as well, but if it gets too crazy I'm off it.

Anyway, when I'm on the pavement I obey the following self-imposed rules:

1) I don't go too fast, even if the way ahead looks clear.

2) Even if the way ahead looks clear, I remain totally aware that someone can come walking out of a doorway/driveway any second.

3) If there's a pedestrian ahead of me, I'll go wide round them, onto the road usually.

4) Also: I'll be ready for pedestrians getting all panicky and unpredictable. I'll be going wide round them SLOWLY.

5) If there are a few people on the pavement, I'll go SUPER-SLOW. I'll cycle at walking speed or less.

Does this make me an asshole? I'm pretty confident I will never hurt any pedestrian through cycling on the pavement. I am ridiculously careful.

cycles ideally in the road. i would never ride my bike on a sidewalk when there were people walking on it. i probably would if it were wide open.

at least in seattle there is PLENTY of room for a bike AND a car in the same lane, side by side. in other words, people generally are overly cautious and should just get used to riding/driving with each other around. if you're driving, just pass the damn bicyclist, you don't need to slow down to a crawl, or pull all the way into the oncoming lane (though if it's clear, sure, give a little extra room). if you're the cyclist, ride as tight to the right as you can (yes, opening car doors are dangerous but that's why you are paying attention)

pedestrians vs. cars, i am honestly torn. it is usually nice to stop for people crossing streets etc. but where i get conflicted is that i HATE for cars to stop for me. when i am walking, i will take 100% responsibility for my movements, and i don't want anybody stopping for me. what i would like them to do instead is please drive as fast as possible and get out of here already! what i generally do in practice is drive on through if there's going to be a nice break in traffic for the walker to move through, but stop if it is a busy street where they honestly could use help getting across the street. people with kids or older folx, etc. deserve extra courtesy.

in general, i guess i give a higher priority to practicality than legality. i think people should drive fast because then you move more cars per time unit. i think you should let those 10 cars go by and then cross, because more people move through the intersection faster that way.

if you are commuting in a big city to an office job, you probably ought to be riding the bus or subway or something. if you are tinkering on your laptop making musics and hopping around to art galleries, by all means do the same. i generally need to go to the shop, pick up parts at various businesses around town, and head to the jobsite which is in a suburb 15 miles away where there is no public trans, with my toolboxes and whatever cabinets or furniture i might be working with that day. so i guess i'll be driving my pickup then.

i figure my vehicle costs me about $15 a day in terms of hard cash (not figuring for downpayment or depreciation, just loan pmt, insurance, gas). so it's not exactly cheap, but i still am supportive of more realistic gas prices, (3-4$ per gallon??) which everywhere besides the US seems to pay anyway.

1. I think Momus made some great points and yes he seems to be unfairly singled-out for mockery.

2. I hope I didn't come across as anti-bicycle as I am an avid mtn. biker, though I do the majority of my riding on trails and backcountry. I dislocated my shoulder last year (embarrassingly enough while riding with my French professor who is a 90-pound slip of a woman) but plan to go hardcore come spring. I was trying to get across my frustration at bikers who use the moral high ground to be jerks, but Kate did that much better than I could.

3. Suzy, I drive, and I did mention thinking "oh get over it" at people who freak out when met with a car in an intersection but I meant only instances when the driver was pulling out of a blind downtown alley or parking lot AFTER checking for pedestrians, being met with much traffic and getting 'trapped', and subsequently being glared at for not being able to see into the future. As for banging the hood of a particularly glaring offender, I'm all for it, but be very careful, as a few months ago I heard of that happening and the male passenger getting out and punching the female hood-banger square in the face. Supposedly an angry crowd surrounded the passenger but when it became evident the passenger was happy to fight every last bystander, the crowd chickened out and the poor lady was left with nothing but dental bills.

4. Ron is very reasonable, and I wish I would have mentioned the "people being overcautious" thing first. Somehow seeing a bike on the road triggers an optical insecurity in people that makes them overly space-conscious drivers. And excellent point, Ron, about necessity: if you work in contracting for instance you cannot make a living without your toolbox and sadly we don't live in the utopia where worksites are mere blocks apart and toolboxes can be shoved in fannypacks. It's true that people whose lifestyles are conducive to portability (primarily urban-centred art lifestyles) are unfairly critical of people who need to drive to make a living.

I have an acquaintance that makes a decent living prep-coaching and co-managing at an upscale restaurant. He's been living in a pretty shabby basement suite for the past two years but has saved up enough to downpay a really nice loft my friend scouted out for him. He seemed very enthused about the idea, but what does he do? Drops his load on a Cadillac Escalade and puts himself back to square one living-space-wise. For what? For impressing materialistic gold-diggers enough with his truck to have them come back home with him whereupon they will sneer "um, no way" after seeing his bsmt suite? Genius.

(I'm sure that's a blood sport everyone could get behind!)

I mean, talk about Extreme Mountain Biking... it's not really extreme unless you have a pack of hounds and a hunt club on your tail, is it?

(Cyclists and mobiles must be a London thing.)

Photos of Boris Johnson doing this on Room 101 earlier this week.

wouldn't it just be easier to get off and walk like you should? especially considering that bicycles are unstable at low speeds.

i understand why cyclists don't want to ride on the roads - it's the same reason us pedestrians don't want cyclists on the paths.

andy

Well, Andy, if it is easier, for me and for the kind pedestrians around me, that's just what I do!

When it isn't (i.e. in situations where the ability to move backwards isn't useful) then, believe it or not, I don't!

I don't understand the phrase, "like you should". Who says I should? The law? I've chirpily overtaken countless members of the police on the pavement, who have made no move to stop me because it was obvious that I was cycling very responsibly and would not hurt anyone. I'm a pedestrian more often than I'm a cyclist. I know what it's like to have some dick on a mountain bike nearly knock me out of my wig, so I don't act like a dick.

especially considering that bicycles are unstable at low speeds

Mine isn't, cos I'm on it. I know people who wobble a little at slow speeds. If I were one of them, I'd have to readjust my strategies.

Let me emphasise: the only harm I'm liable to cause pedestrians is when the sight of my trim ass bobbing steams up spectacles resulting in poodle-tripping etc.

"ON YOUR LEFT!"

(yeah, left side of my sac, you fluorescent dressed twunt)

I'm trying to find a regular job right now, and right now I'm temping. For some reason an awful lot of employers with editorial-type employment are either high-tech contractors in Falls Church/Tysons Corner/Herndon/Reston, Virginia, or high-tech contractors on the 270 corridor (Rockville/Gaithersburg/Germantown), Maryland; these places are always located more than a mile away from a Metrorail station. I'd like to find a job in DC or a closer-in suburb (Bethesda or Arlington), but employers are not exactly breaking down my door. I did a bus-rail-bus reverse commute a couple years ago when my car was in the shop; a 45-minute trip became 90+ minutes.

In the meantime, I try not to hate bicyclists as a class, but when I see a bicyclist who is running red lights, or ignoring pedestrian right-of-way, or not wearing a helmet, it raises my blood pressure. And then a couple weeks ago in Georgetown a mother and her two children insisted on pedaling down a crowded, narrow sidewalk (it's legal in DC to ride your bicycle on the sidewalk in certain designated downtown areas), when the safer and more courteous thing would have been for them to walk their bicycles until they reached the uncrowded side street they were trying to reach. Also, the mother was not wearing a helmet.

I'm crazy about red lights. I'm in the desert, the nearest humans are 30 miles away, but some arbitrarily placed red light will hold me for as long as it wants - I am totally obedient. Meanwhile, I'll let pedestrians do what the fuck they like, seeing as how (as I've said) I'm more often one of them than a cyclist.

But I don't wear a helmet! And it raises your blood pressure! What new demand is this? Why does it bother you? It's my skull, my commonplace brain-ball! That's what's involved! But thanks for minding.

A bicycle at low speeds is not that unstable if you're at all skilled. I usually wait at lights without even putting a foot on the ground (most of the time, sometimes I screw this up). You just turn the wheel like the guy in the picture into the crown of the road. This is really easy if you're riding a fixed gear like he is, but its still possible on any bike.

http://www.63xc.com/gregg/2_hands.jpg

pedestrians, what is it with pressing the pedestrian crossing button and then crossing anyway before the green man lights up?

or with stepping out into the road in front of me BEFORE you look either way?

maybe that mother has the answer, the one i saw with her five year old boy walking out in front of an oncoming car in a car park: "come on, they're not going to run you over"