World Cup 2006 qualifying draw

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I love this OD of tournament draws one gets around this time.

Friday's pots:

Pot one
1 France
2 Portugal
3 Sweden
4 Czech Republic
5 Spain
6 England
7 Italy
8 Turkey

Pot two
9 Holland
10 Poland
11 Croatia
12 Belgium
13 Russia
14 Denmark
15 Republic of Ireland
16 Bulgaria or
Slovenia

Pot three
17 Bulgaria or Slovenia
18 Romania
19 Scotland
20 Serbia and Montenegro
21 Switzerland
22 Greece
23 Ukraine, Slovakia or Austria
24 Ukraine, Slovakia or Austria

Pot four
25 Ukraine, Slovakia or Austria
26 Iceland
27 Finland
28 Norway
29 Israel
30 Bosnia Herzegovina
31 Latvia
32 Wales

Pot five
33 Hungary
34 Georgia
35 Belarus
36 Estonia
37 Cyprus
38 Northern Ireland
39 Lithuania
40 Macedonia

Pot six
41 Albania
42 Moldova
43 Armenia
44 Liechtenstein
45 San Marino
46 Azerbaijan
47 Faroe Islands
48 Malta
49 Luxembourg
50 Andorra
51 Kazakhstan

There will be five groups of six teams, and three groups of seven. Germany qualify automatically as hosts.

POTENTIAL GROUP OF DEATH:

England
Holland
Serbia & Montenegro
Norway
Hungary
Albania

Actually I'm a bit out of touch with who's good in Central and Eastern Europe. Maybe someone else in pot 3 is better than Serbia.

Are Norway really that crap these days that they are grouped in fourth pot? They were ranked in FIFA's top 5 not so long ago, I seem to recall.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

they've been pretty poor lately and haven't qualified for the Euros

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the way they haven't worked out who's the shittest out of Ukraine, Slovakia or Austria yet.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Austria surely, they got spanked in qualifying. I'd much rather face Norway than Finland, and I don't think anyone fancies a trip to Kazakhstan or Azerbaijan.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I do!

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Cor, we could have England/ROI/Scotland/Wales/NI/Faroe Islands for a big all in North Atlantic European Islands fite.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, can't we make it a love in?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

it's ridiculous that there are only 13 places given - after the 8 group winners is it then the 5 best runners up, quite a few decent teams are going to miss out, in favour of Venezuela, United Arab Emirates and Cotes D'Ivore who will all go out in the first round having scored no goals - still i guess it boosts things in those countries

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve did the last World Cup teach you NOTHING?!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Didn't those pesky developing football nations do rather well in the last cup, steve..?

xpost!

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

no it didn't really - the next World Cup is in Europe - i guarantee you now that the quarter finals will consist of mostly European teams, with maybe Brazil, Argentina and one African team thrown in (or one of USA, Mexico or Australia if you're going to be difficult)

has it been confirmed that Oceania get a guaranteed place now? meaning Australia won't have to face the humiliation of another play-off defeat at the hands of Turkmenistan or those plucky Bolivians

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i just think that while it's nice to see developing nations get more opportunities to play in the World Cup, i also feel it would be nice to see the genuine best 32 teams in the world competing.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I love stevem.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

i would love it if Holland were drawn with Italy or something. and England got the other home nations...now that's a group of death (bad taste joke)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

You can't get through the European qualifying structure = you are not one of the top teams, in exactly the same way as Australia had no grounds to complain about not getting into the World Cup if they couldn't beat Iran over 2 legs.

The numbers are heavily in favour of the European nations, we've nothing to complain about.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Potential GROUP OF LIFE:

Sweden
Belgium
Scotland
Iceland
Northern Ireland
San Marino

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

thats fair enough but my point now is that the World Cup can not be an accurate representation of the best international sides. geography is prioritised over actual quality and there's too much of a lottery scenario due to luck of the draw. i guess i am romanticising too much but in the wrong way, as in i wanted to see Holland at the last World Cup - they didn't go because they dropped points against two of the best teams in Europe at that time, but what if the qualifiers involved playing teams outside their confederation?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)

But the mouthwatering prospect of perhaps watching Argentina get knocked out by Iran by one goal is far more entertaining than watching Argentina join Germany, Brazil and Italy in the semi-final, isn't it?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes. Fuck Holland.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

steve hasn't been this otm since he said Barbara Streisand last night

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Top 10 teams in the FIFA World Rankings

1 Brazil 852 1 0 1 0
2 France 826 2 0 2 0
3 Spain 785 3 0 3 0
4 Argentina 750 4 0 5 1
5 Mexico 742 8 3 8 3
6 Netherlands 740 5 -1 6 0
7 Turkey 739 8 1 9 2
8 England 738 6 -2 7 -1
9 Germany 736 7 -2 4 -5
10 Czech Republic 735 11 1 15 5

So its obvious that Brazil should beat France in the final with Spain and Argentina making the semis - that's an accurate representation and we don't need a pesky tournament to prove it.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Just noticed: since when has Kazakhstan been in Europe?

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not like all the Uzbekis and Turkmen refuse to play them or anything.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

when was the last time Spain played Argentina in the World Cup?

.
.
.
.
.

precisely

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Footballing 'continents' make no geographical sense though - I'd never really worked out why Israel counts as Europe.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

It used to be part of Oceania, confusingly.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

if you were Israel and you had a choice between playing European teams or playing teams in the Middle East...

fuck Germany and Brazil tho.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Holland were quite properly excluded because they didn't win enough points. To look at it otherwise is madness. The World Cup has to be a selection of the best teams from each continent lined up against each other or it makes no sense.

Heaven forbid it goes any further down the Champions League road where the whole structure of the competition is geared around accommodationg those teams who think they "should" be there in favour of those who have earned it.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

mexico are only in there as they play loads of crap teams, which is why the USA have such an inflated position (or did anyway)

Those rankings are bab.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Tim OTM.

Re Israel - does it play as part of Europe for political/security reasons?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Partially, and partially because too many of the Arab nations refuse to play them.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Cos if they're in the Asia Confed, they can't actually play half the teams they'd meet as israel is recognised by those mostly Arab States. Also potential flashpoints etc. They used to be in the Oceania Confed once...

~~Australia~~ Oceania were promised a place automatically, but then Asia kicked up a storm before the last world cup as they'd lost half a place. They got their full place back, which removed half a place from South America, who kicked up a fuss, and FIFA gave them a half-place back by downgrading Oceania's full place to a half-place.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

is recognised = isn't recognised, obv.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

So if Israel DO get drawn with, say, Iran in the next World Cup... ?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there anyone else likely to beat Australia in the Oceania confed?

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't forget Iran vs USA in the last (but one?) WC. That was brilliant! (and Iran won, which made it even better)

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Ricky T - No chance, unless NZ pull off some sort of miracle, or maybe Guam

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Those rankings are bab.

bab?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

i suppose my gripe is no more warranted than complaining about penalty shoot-outs - but they're still annoying when the team you're rooting for (because they have a prettier kit, naturally) loses. Tim you are right, BUT Holland were still better (on paper) than half the teams at the last World Cup...(the bait's on the hook once more)

incidentally the South American confederation were outraged that they had a place taken away from them (in favour of Oceania i guess) and campaigned to have the World Cup expanded to accommodate 36 teams.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

New Zealand beat Australia to win a place in the Confederations Cup last Summer...an omen?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

How the fuck were they proposing to deal with 36 teams? Surely 40 would have made more sense?

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

god knows why i complain about Holland's absence - considering who qualified directly at their expense

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

N. yes, bab, surprised you didn't hear that while you were in Sheffield?

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Agreed. Has Oz football got better, or NZ football gone shit? I remember the days of Wynton Rufer.

In a finals tournament, israel against another country might be less of a problem; as qualifying takes place home and away, the Israeli team would struggle to get into the arab States as they would be non-citizens with no passport deemed valid by the arab state.

Stevem - they weren't better, cos they never played them competively. Because they weren't there. Hence subjective judgement based on meejar wanking over the dutch.

No need anymore for regional qualifying; comes from a pre-jet age. Nowadays we could dispense with this and end the regional BS and have every team in a group of 6 or 7 - All FIFA members / number of places up for grabs.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

http://62.232.35.140/files_football/BABB_Phil_19981213_NF_R.jpg

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Israel has been 'in Europe' since around 1990-ish, having been kicked out of the Asian federation in 1976 as a somewhat unfair 'punishment' for the fact that so many Arabic countries, as well as India, refused to play them.

It's worth pointing out that - political considerations aside, ok ? - it is arguable that culturally speaking Israel is far more European than Asian anyway, and is closer geographically than most of the -jans and -stans that the break-up of the USSR resulted in..

― darren (darren), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Nowadays we could dispense with this and end the regional BS and have every team in a group of 6 or 7 - All FIFA members / number of places up for grabs.

but then we'd have a lot more European teams qualifying ;)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve the only sort of people who think the Holland kit is pretty are the sort of people who think that the shirt you wore to the last FAP was a good idea.

Dave if you went forward on a non-regional basis then FIFA would presumably have to stump up travel / accommodation costs for all the teams because they might prove prohibitively expensive for smaller FAs, yesno?

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Holland's kit is classic, i kill you with clogs

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Oz footie has got a lot better Dave, especially with top clubs pouring money into feeder clubs or linking up in scouting deals, hence they can afford to get better coaches, pay decent wages to get the occasional furriner over (when I watched Perth Glory they had a Brazilian winger, and Northern Spirit who they were playing featured Nicola Berti). It's not only British teams either, various European teams are doing the same, especially Ajax, who've got teams in Sydney and in South Africa too - just look at some of the talent they're unearthing, Pienaar is one who springs to mind who came through the feeder club and is now a first team regular.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

regional qualification process has to stay due to respective FA financial resources AND TV demands if nothing else

i would invite Australia to play in UEFA (all the players are based in Europe anyway)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:07 (twenty-two years ago)

while i'm at it, Celtic in the Premiership!

― stevem - football philistine since 1992 (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Can I just point out that Israel are categorised as European because they are in the Eurovision Song Contest. It's got nothing to do with cultural history or conflict.

Thank you. Dana International. She was tasty.

― MikeyFuckingG, Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

er, that was a dude, dude

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

but the UK got nil pwa this year so does that mean we are no longer in UEFA?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh no, not another Crying Game 'situation'

― MikeyFuckingG, Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

tears for heroes dressed in tangerine

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

tears for lemons dressed as heroes, more like.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Eurovision also includes north african countries and israel = it is the new Roman Empire foretold in the revelations.

As for costs - yeah it would be costly in some respects. But it can't be cheap getting to Azerbaijan as it stands. If the labour party can operate a pooled fund to ensure everyone pays the same to get to the Conference. It can't be beyond the wit of man to sort this out. But it could be beyond the wit of FIFA.

Main reason it won't happen - undermines confederation power, so they won't back it.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

What's the difference between a federation and a confederation?

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Beware the rise of Latvia. As foretold in Eurovision.

― MikeyG, Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

despite my Europhilia i think cross-confed qualifiers would detract from the value of the World Cup itself tho. the ironing is that Germany had a much tougher time in qualifying than they did at the final tournament last time.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Beware the rise of Latvia. As foretold in Eurovision.

spooky parallel - Turkey won Eurovision around ten years ago, the they were surprise qualifiers for Euro 96 and so on...maybe a score on Latvia finishing third in South Africa 2010?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Nuffink. Well, according to Riker, there's a major difference. But he never studied FIFA, so he can feck off.

All except UEFA are called Confederations, which is a Union. Fifa is a Federation, so I suspect the others are confeds to reflect their subordinate status. I suspect FIFA picked themselves to be a Federation because that woz wot international sporting bodies caqlled themselves at the time (see FIDA, FIA etc)

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Why are they all French names?

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

France's love of the bureaucracy? so they formed all the organisations?

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Like the Committee International d'Astologie?

I suspect someone in France had the bright idea first, and other Frenchies decided to jump on the bandwagon. probably also to do with English policy of assuming they were World Champions of everything and refusal to challenge this (see: US Sports) so latent anti-English vibe.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

mexico are only in there as they play loads of crap teams, which is why the USA have such an inflated position (or did anyway)

You do know that playing lower ranked teams is counted into the points? And its not just points as in 3 points for a win.

But I forgot, all you ever see on the tv is European teams so those MUST be the best teams.
Don't mind me Im just bitter at Canada's ever dropping ranking.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

But you won the Gold Cup a few years back. What went wrong. I remember the days of ~~Wynton Rufer~~ Carlo Corrazin.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I know this, ranking points are given for a correlation of the strength of the opposition, but also they play a lot more games than most teams do in Europe. They're not that good anyway is fo sho. Canada = considerably worse ;o) They were playing first division teams over here not long ago and didn't do that great. I saw Chesterfield play Canada in a friendly at Saltergate in the eighties, I think town won 2-1.

That win in the Gold Cup was largely due to a keeper having a blinder wasn't it? I remember seeing them against (possibly) Jamaica and he was the only one who kept them in it.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Mexico also win a lot of their home games because they play at altitude. It skewers their ranking.

Same with Bolivia, who historically have a cracking win ratio at home but get thrashed away because they play their games at 4 km above sea level.

The FIFA World Rankings flawed? You'll be saying there are inconsistencies in the bible next.

Canada - Craig Forrest btw. Good luck to him, he's recovering from testicular cancer.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

But they did qualify for the World Cup in 1986 under ex-Blackpool Goalkeeper Tony Waiters

― Look Mom! No google! (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

32 best teams in the world according to me:

France
Brazil
Portugal
Italy
Czech Republic
England
Spain
Sweden
Argentina
Holland
Germany
Cameroon
Denmark
Russia
Switzerland
Turkey
U.S.A.
Paraguay
Uruguay
Australia
Senegal
Mexico
Greece
Croatia
South Korea
Nigeria
Bulgaria
Japan
Belgium
Poland
Romania
Serbia & Montenegro
South Africa

the other issue is, from a mathematical point of view alone it seems silly to have 13 European teams qualifying. 5 groups of 6, 3 groups of 7 - wtf? are there play-offs or what?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

[x]Mexico is damm hard to beat at home. Your a mile high in a stinking volcano infront of 70,000 people in near 40 degree weather.
Its like the way we ended up qualifing for the World Cup in Mexico was to play our home legs in Newfoundland and freeze the island nations to death.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Canada only got a draw against Scotland - that's pretty bad

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Mexico actually played some fantastic football at the last World Cup and it still amazes me how they collapsed against the USA

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

In the good old days, you used to be able to have the top one qualifiying from a group of 5, with the top two from a group of 7. Then Gorby went and fucked up European football, especially when it comes to qualifying. No one ever focusses on this most pernicious of ill-effects of the breakup of the Soviet Union and associated eastern bloc states.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Canada only got a draw against Scotland - that's pretty bad

Well done to our plucky Scotch friends though, eh?

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Mexico collapse doesn't amaze me at all. I saw a game in the azteca last year and was shocked at the attitude of the players. Mexican football is a disgrace; players traded between clubs owned by the major TV stations, more sponsor's logos than Formula 1 and an distinctly ungrafting approach to the game which doesn't seem to be able to get around the concept of 90 minutes of football. Maybe it's the heat.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

yeh but don't the first XI all play in La Liga?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Nah. Don't think so anyway. But even if they do, it would make sense as Spain are the world's worst underperformers ever. I've a mate who consistently predicts Spain everytime, arguing that this year, they'll get it right, before watching them implode as usual.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

the Brazilian league must be just as bad as the Mexican one (isn't it customary for the referee of any particular game there to receive at least one death threat per week?) but it doesn't affect the quality of their international team.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

i also predict Spain every time - talk about blind optimism (i've gone for a France v Spain final next Summer but they're more likely to meet in the quarter-final)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

No, cos they all play in Europe in the main. Most successful teams in the world at the moment seem to be France and Brazil, who have players playing in different countries and thus playing amongst different styles - English, Italian, Spanish etc. They bring it altogether and hey presto. This explains the relative underperformance of Spain and Italy in my book, though the Germans are a massive huge great bloody flaw in this argument, but i shan't let evidence get in the way.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

We got strikers(, we got defender[s] and we had two great keepers, its a midfielder we need and our best hope chose to play for Engerland and probably would have also taken Germany over us.

Craig Forrest was brilliant and saved us from looking horrid several times along side defender Jason deVos (former Dundee United now Wiggan's captian). But Pat Onstad who plays in the MLS is currently the best keeper in that league since ManU stole that American and younger keeper Lars Hirschfeld looking to take over. We do have Tomasz Radzinski and Paul Peschisolido striking which may not be Owen and Boy Wonder Wayne but they are not but.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

well obsoived Dave - i always found it strange that when English clubs were at their most successful in Europe (the 70s) the state of the national squad was absolutely dire

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

The one thing about germany is that they won the WC in 1990 after 2 failed final appearrances when they had mattaus, brehme and Klinsman playing for Inter. And lets not forget that the danish League is shite, and Holland also ain't up to much.

personally, think that in any country, there's a trade-off between a great national side, and great club sides; most countries with weak club structures are better able to priotitise the national team; in Spain, Italy and England, we're totally dominated by clubs. In germany, they have the balance right, because they're great. I heart germans. Like the English, only better.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Hm I think I've heard that point of view somewhere before...

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Canadian striker Dwayne de Rosario has also been playing well for the championship side in the MLS but you don't watch that league in Engerland and frankly I don't blame you.

the Brazilian league must be just as bad as the Mexican one

Brazilian football (and Argentinian football) is disturbingly fast and dirty. On top of that it has all sorts of crazy flying dives and play acting, just like Mexican nationals.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Where? I invented that point of view during 1999 or thereabouts.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't say or Godwin's Law would have to be invoked.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

wassis das? I am in the dark?

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Tim Howard went to Manyoo - Hirschfeld went somewhere else (and it's bugging me that I can't think of where - is it Spurs where he's back up to Keller?)

The Mexicans rarely leave Mexico - due to the fact that the big companies who own most of the clubs pay really high wages and offer them incentives to stay in the country and increase their tv revenues.

David Xausa who was playing at Livvy is Canadian, no?

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

The Argentinian crazy Apertura/Clausura league rocks, there are the best and worst goals of the week there, some of the defending is amazing, alternating between lethal tackles and hilarious pratfalls to allow strikers open goals.

I remember a couple of seasons ago watching a certain flowing locked Uruguayan banging in goals for fun, I wonder where he is now......

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Mexican club football isn't bad at all. It's really quick. There are a handfull of clubs that dominate and the rest stagger along in their slipstream. Just like the Premiership in fact.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw America against necaza; America get 2-0 up, then simply fanny around and make no attempt to score in the 2nd half. It was a disgrace. Necaza pulled on back, and I was willing them to equalise to serve America right. Sadly they couldn't, but they did bring me beer to my seat on demand, so there are areas where mexican football is light years ahead.

Apparenhtly, mexican football started with a group of Cornish tin miners who left the country after the mine shut, but left the legacy of football to the country as a whole, and pasties to the region of the country they were in.

I wanted to get shirt, but they were all so awful. The best one was made by a company called Athletico and was sponsored by the country number one bread makers - Bimbo. Hence the only two logos said 'Athletico Bimbo' which I wanted. I don't know who the team was, so I can't order one on the interweb.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Xausa is a Canuk, Hirshfeld is backup at Spurs currently, Paul Fenwick is a hib, Tony Menezes plays in the Chinese first division and a few can be found scattered around Austria and Germany's top top flights. Most come from the MLS's second division (the A League, I wish they had Mr T as mascot) which has teams in Canada.

And we actually LOST to Scotland 3-1, sadly we have yet to face Faroe Islands, we actually have to find them first.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

And we actually LOST to Scotland 3-1

and you wonder why your ranking is so low??????

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Did canada have a man sent off?

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Can I just remind everyone of the brilliance that was Cauhtemoc Blanco. The bunny hops at France '98, the tantrums, the Aztec name.

Thanks, I'll piss off now.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

One trick pony.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

In germany, they have the balance right, because they're great.

except the Bundesliga is frightfully dull and the national team have been at their weakest in some 40 years. 'wurrst German team in hestory' as Alan Hansen sagely observed during the Euro 2004 draw on Sunday.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

if that's the trade off for winning things then i think England are better off as they are. there seems to be a fairly decent compromise going on at the moment anyway (English clubs now all on course to qualify from Champions League group stage, i fancy Liverpool and Newcastle to go far in the UEFA Cup to atone for their disappointing league performance, and the national team all in all are looking their best for 7/8 years - still ain't gonna win nuthin until they learn to defend properly tho)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know about a sending off.

I did find that North America gets 3 spots and a chance at a 4th against South America I think.
So USA, Mexico, Costa Rica (16th in the world) Jamaica (47th), Honduras (45) are our main competitors. Though T&T (71st) whipped out asses something fierce last time :(

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

does Dwight Yorke still play for T&T?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Noodles - was giving a reason for your poor performance against Scotland. sadly, there were no excuses.

Steve - the balance is shot to shit. Club success enjoyment really limited properly to fans of said clubs. You are a Premiership loving hurr.

Bundesliga - tickets around 10 quid, clubs all members clubs owned by fanz. German clubs win Euro Cup twice in last 10 years. Best stadiums in world, yet still have standing. drinking allowed whilst watching game. fans consulted. TV has one match on each week live, all rest kick off at same time on a Saturday. German team get to World Cup Final. England self-justificatory hype (best league in world wank wank) is, er, a crock a self-delusional shite.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve - ask Jordan?

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

"Blanco - One trick pony"

Dave B, whoever you are - I am going to kill you with an axe and then wee on you.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

And he wore white boats. Showboating fannydangler.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

May the slaughter begin.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

does Dwight Yorke still play for T&T?

He did then. I think we made him travel to Edmonton even.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Bring it on, flash pants

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

You don't wanna mess with the likes of me. I live in Hackney, innit.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, well thisd piece of SE London is gonna take you down.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

wow, the German league and structure sounds fantastic

so why would i rather watch the Premiership 9 times out of 8? and why has it only ever been about the Premiership, Serie A and La Liga when it comes to talk of 'the best league in the world'?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

There's no 'd' in this. Not even a silent one, you Heskey.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

that sounds sarcastic but i meant it (it really does sound fantastic), is their decline internationally just a natural cyclical shift?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I hated this idea of a renaissance in Italian football that was branded around by the media before the European Cup Final last season. Italian football is as dreary and defensively minded as ever.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe they just overachieved for 40 years before the late 90s. Maybe Berti Vogts fucked up big stylee. I dunno.

They have such a good structure because they had to start from scratch; no old structures to limp through etc. They've also got their plc'ers who look at England and say 'that's the future' but they don't make much headway. It just works. they also get the World Cup to host.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

when are the seedings finalised?

my dream group for ireland...

sweden
ireland
scotland
israel
northern ireland / estonia
andorra (anyone except the solid albanians is ok)

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i hope england avoid israel at all costs - trouble a-brewin'

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

then again i was pessimistic about the Turkey match but turned out seemingly uneventful OFF the pitch/tunnel

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Holland kit = Blackpool kit.

I think there are quite a few Mexicans at Osasuna, or at least there used to be. I think of them as PSYCHOS. The coach is Mexican, I think.

Back when I had Eurosport access, I used to like the Belgian league. I like the French too, although it might be because they just show the highlights without any fannying about and if I ever see it it's by accident, so it's a nice surprise. Surely this kind of thinking is the way forward for world rankings?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

French football without any fannying about?!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 11:59 (twenty-two years ago)

the only strikers in France yadda yadda

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/t/draw.html

'watch' the draw live online - they're doing the Europe one last, on CONCACAF at the moment - can you handle the excitement?

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

It's the big on - Samoa vs American Samoa. It's gonna be large, they're all be tooled up etc. Might be moved to Gelsenkirchen for security reasons.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i fancy Solomon Islands to cause a big upset, even tho their full-back is an actual pot-bellied pig.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

ASIA GROUP 7
Lebanon
Vietnam
Vietnam
Maldives

From the BBC website. Seems unfair, no?

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

yes that's right, Julian Dicks is STILL playing...

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the second Vietnam is South Korea

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey! Leave Julian alone.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

and shouldn't it should be THE Lebanon?

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Thank god Kitts and Nevis avoided Cook Islands.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

The Human League are up in arms!

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

European draw >> to start around 5.42

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Africa now - GO Cote Dd'Ivore!

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

the Human League have been drawn to play Duran Duran, Softcell, and Prince XI

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

anyone FAP?

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

China v Hong Kong!

Dave B text Tim H if you're at a pint loss this evening.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

damn, Cameroon and Egypy in same group as Cote d'Ivore (i only like them cos of their upside down Irish flag)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

YERP NOW!

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I fancy Burkina Faso to go all the way in 2006.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Algeria, Angola, Gabon and Rwanda = group of death.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

will this draw be more exciting than the last actual final match? i'm thinking yes

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

dave b that was COLD

actually a piss easy group for the Robson Rejects

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

The draw will be longer.

Where are Australia and NZ in the Oceania section? I can't see them.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

they don't come in until the next round - a final group of 6 (or 2 of 3)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

They both got byes.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

a home nation sure to get Kazahkstan

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

The guy doing the Grauniad running commentary = Alang (scroll down to chat at 5:19)

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

man is his job ever sweet

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

We could do that!

Oh, wait, we are.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

but merely for the love

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

not the money

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Come on, come on, come on. Want to be in pub FFS.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Yay! We're off. The drama!

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm surprised Northern Ireland were not in Pot F

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Group 5 = group of death SO FAR

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Avoided Luxembourg and Andorra. Phew!

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

England will obv be in group C cos patterns endlessly repeat.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Group 4 = potential group of death, heh

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuck me, it's gripping.

Can't be in A B or C, Mark.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Hungary could be one to watch

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Georgia v Albania once again!

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

YES! Wales v NIR!

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Group 5 - what did I tell you...

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Remind me why, dave?

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Group 2 looks nasty

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Wales have avoided the faroe Islands! Arf.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

ARGH! so close to having Scotland in Group 6, fuckers

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Serbia v Bosnia OF COURSE

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Scotland being in the group of Death kind of ruins the whole concept. Except for the Scots.

Anyone else parsing IRL as "in real life"?

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

woohoo, Ireland get the Swiss again - gotta win this time!

mark your idea of grp 5 as grp of death is a mockery

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

3 in 5 xchance of Eng meeting a british isles team...

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Bye bye israel!

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Come on group 7.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

YES!!!!

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

wtf? France v Ireland! Czechs v Dutch! Italy v Scotland (jammy fucks) - ENGLAND IN GROUP 6 YES YES YES!!!

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Hooray!

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

woohoo - Home Internationals are back-ish!

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuckin' hell.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

excellent group - and the love affair with Poland is back too

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave - why couldn't we have been in 1, 2 or 3??

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Group 6
ENGLAND
Poland
Austria
WALES
NORTHERN IRELAND
Azerbaijan

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

It's got everything! Home internationals! Cheap travel saving £££££s for the hard-up FA! Poland and clownish goalies. Trip to the mysterious poverty stricken east. And Austria too. Wow. Like, WOW!

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Piss easy group I think, the only downside is the home internationals might be trickier than they might be otherwise. But hey, our best players are used to playing at Cardiff.

Dave was invoking the Ted Rogers rule. Cannot be in groups 3,2 or 1.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

we should qualify from that, I'd have thought.

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

We were told that be would be in a group of 6. Don't know why.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Fantasticotico!

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Is a beautiful draw, yes. hard, but interesting. And beautiful.

― Sven Goran Eriksson (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Poland are at their best since the 70s

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Austria probably have a three or four new wunderkids breaking thru just...about...now too

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Arse.

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

kin ell Steve. The draw is 5 minutes old and you're having a downer about the death of English football etc.

― In the Name of God, Go! (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

In the excitment, we've missed Turkey and Greece being paired up. And latvia and Estonia with russia! And Luxembourg and Liechtenstein must fancy their mutual chances of getting a famous win or two for the first time ever.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

no it's just to counter all those who'll say England will win the group easily. don't underestimate those plucky Poles...

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

And we can't overlook Serbia Montenegro versus Bosnia Herzegovina: The game so big, they couldn't find a scoreboard big enough.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Group 2 is the group of maim - i can see Ukraine coming thru as much as anyone else

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

So, sweepstake on which ones will see England fans banned from? I reckon NI and wales will be tasty.

― Burberry Cretin (daveb), Friday, 5 December 2003 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

yeh the downside is we will not stop hearing about how 'England could be kicked out of the tournament if there is any trouble...' - as if the same didn't/shouldn't apply to any other countries there

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 5 December 2003 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

we're not going to top the group, anyway! the swiss were way better than us last time, but i could see us improving. second spot is definitely within our reach.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 5 December 2003 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Bless the optimism of youth - I bet you also support Liverpool....

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 5 December 2003 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that's a good group, where we can consider ourselves pretty strong favourites. Poland are pretty good, but I think we can handle them, and the rest are not very scary.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 5 December 2003 23:03 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, no-one else cares about Scotland but me, but here goes:

Italy
Slovenia
Scotland
Norway
Belarus
Moldova

I hate this. Hate it. Italy, like Germany last time around (Euro 2004), are the team we will raise our game against and should do OK. They aren't the team they once were (if Wales can do it...). There are a couple of unknown quantities there in Moldova and Belarus, and we've never played Slovenia before. They just failed to qualify for Euro 2004 going out narrowly to Croatia, and there's no shame in that (unless getting horsed 6-1 by Holland) so will probably be our biggest threat for second place (despite confidence above, I think Italy will top the group). Norway, I have no idea about. They beat us at France 98, but I think we're better than we were then.

However, there are too many unknowns there, and that's where Scotland always cock up (see Zaire, Iran, Costa Rica, Faroes etc etc). My first reaction was that I would have liked us to have been the Austria in Group 6. But now I'm not so sure.

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 6 December 2003 10:23 (twenty-two years ago)

well it could have been worse. i dont know, i'm quietly pleased with bertie, and these teams (excepting italy of course) seem like a good bunch to play when your building a team. i'm quite optimistic about the next couple of years for the first time in ages (oh and even though we got beat seeing firhill on national tv made my week!)

― zappi (joni), Saturday, 6 December 2003 11:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Northern Ireland v. Azerbaijan = the match where NI break their duck i reckon.

― MarkH (MarkH), Saturday, 6 December 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Scotland's draw looks very rough. Besides Italy, Slovenia and Norway could finish above you, and Moldova aren't among the weakest in the last pot.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 6 December 2003 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I once saw Scotland play Italy in a World Cup qualifier. It was 0-0.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 7 December 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

MArk, we had to be in a group of six, as our FA along with Spain, Italy, Germany, and we think Holland, did a deal where they all got the smaller groups, so they'd have less qualifiers to play.

― Vicky (Vicky), Sunday, 7 December 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Group 6 is, like, an entire group full of the sort of teams England will underestimate and draw 1-1 with. But its a great draw - absolutely loaded with deep historical rivalries and political tension - England vs N Ireland! Greece vs Turkey! Serbia vs Bosnia!

A winter trip to Azerbaijan doesn't exactly sound like an attractive prospect either. I just looked at Azerbaijan on the map. Like, in what universe is that Europe?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 7 December 2003 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

We were told that be would be in a group of 6. Don't know why.

Weren't England, France, Spain and Italy all excluded from the 7-team groups in order to cut down on fixtures because they have loads of clubs involved in European games?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 7 December 2003 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

ahem dude, see above

― chris (chris), Sunday, 7 December 2003 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

four weeks pass...

Bye bye israel!

-- Dave B (dave.boyl...), December 5th, 2003 5:48 PM.

Just re-reading this and want to re-assure the world that I am not anti-semitic, nor do I question the right of Israel to exist.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

you must now purchase the Dana International comeback album to fully absolve the guilt

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel no guilt. Well, not for that anyway.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Tell us more Dave

― Daniel (dancity), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 23:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I was thinking of the Les Wallace picture in the darts thread. Mea Culpa, Steve.

― Forgive me Father, for I have sinned. (daveb), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 09:28 (twenty-one years ago)

from bbc.co.uk

England's fixtures
4 September, 2004 - Austria (a)
8 September, 2004 - Poland (a)
9 October, 2004 - Wales (h)
13 October, 2004 - Azerbaijan (a)
26 March, 2005 - Northern Ireland (h)
30 March, 2005 - Azerbaijan (h)
3 September, 2005 - Wales (a)
7 September, 2005 - Northern Ireland (a)
8 October, 2005 - Austria (h)
12 October, 2005 - Poland (h)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Northern Ireland's fixtures
4 September, 2004 - Poland (home)
8 September, 2004 - Wales (away)
9 October, 2004 - Azerbaijan (away)
13 October, 2004 - Austria (home)
26 March, 2005 - England (away)
30 March, 2005 - Poland (away)
3 September, 2005 - Azerbaijan (home)
7 September, 2005 - England (home)
8 October, 2005 - Wales (home)
12 October, 2005 - Austria (away)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wales' fixtures
4 September, 2004 - Azerbaijan (a)
8 September, 2004 - Northern Ireland (h)
9 October, 2004 - England (a)
13 October, 2004 - Poland (h)
26 March, 2005 - Austria (h)
30 March, 2005 - Austria (a)
3 September, 2005 - England (h)
7 September, 2005 - Poland (a)
8 October, 2005 - Northern Ireland (a)
12 October, 2005 - Azerbaijan (h)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

oh no the poles, emylyn hughes all over again etc...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm not sure if it's a good idea for England to play the two toughest teams at home in their last games - they were crap against Greece in the final game but played superbly in Rome and Istanbul where there was more pressure on the home nation.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Steve - Wales are stronger than Austria - they got spanked something like 7-0 last season by Spain.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd say they're about the same right now but i expect Austria to pose a bit more of a threat, esp. at that late point in the qualifying process. i hope Wales surprise me and i'm sorry to be pessimistic about them but after that Russia defeat i hope you'll forgive me.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 17:51 (twenty-one years ago)

meanwhile ol' Chick Young has a point of sorts

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess it's kind of tongue in cheek - I'd love that idea too, but the financial costs for smaller nations of jetting round the world for qualifiers, as well as clubs being unhappy enough about losing players to internationals, make it impractical. Also, it's environmentally pretty irresponsible.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure I approve of this notion of nations fannying around with the fixtures in order to suit Wales. If Giggs is suspended for your hardest two games, tough shit. Its a punishment.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

well to be fair, if the other nations aren't going to object without a good reason, then i think it's fair enough esp. as the Giggs ban seems a bit harsh anyway. and i really want to see him play against England. the way they decide the order of fixtures seems to be based around taking into account each nation's personal preferences anyway - as far as i know it's not randomly generated (obv. there is an attempt to stage the bigger 'decider' games at the end of the process).

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 20:51 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

the concretes! amazing!

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

The draw section of this thread is beautiful. I like how the Irish people are like "arse, we got France..."

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 22:45 (twenty years ago)

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