Misanthropy: The Great Equalizer

I'm intrigued by the concept of a constructive misanthrope. What does that mean?

x-post

Granted, these are very skewed datapoints, but I see no sense in believing the best of people. But for some reason, I don't think that the inherent wrongness of humanity is an excuse to be rude to people. It's a weird philosophy, the more I think about it.

But I'm not sure what the philosophy behind people who fly into a blind rage when the waiter forgets to bring that fork they asked for. Except of course that that's a way to make sure things get done your way, right away. But who cares if they get done your way? Most of the time, things only start getting interesting when things go wrong.

Anyway I'm not sure whether you'd qualify any of that as misanthropy (I usually do think of myself as a misanthrope).

Word.

If I could meet a magical fairy godmother who could grant me one wish, it'd be that, cause you can't buy it at ASDA.

(Well, that and to be a size 10 again...)

Folks, while I do appreciate the sentiment and thank you for it, I would like to reiterate that I'm not looking for compliments/validation/etc. I think there are some layers to the entire idea of hating people; I don't think it's hypocritical or even far-fetched to intensely dislike "people" but like individuals. I think there's a world of difference between being "nice" and being "polite". I think that you can dislike others and still have a moral code that offers respect before disdain. What I'm really interested in is how these ideas/values conflict with each other and also what other people mean when they use the word "misanthrope".

Sodding Asda - although Safeways <<< Asda. HOW MUCH DO I HATE THAT SUPERMARKET I will tell you LOTS.

I think in general that misanthropy is such a negative way to go about things and suggests a lack of appreciation for the life which we have been given. Then again, I am a generally happy, lovey-dovey person/hippie. I used to be extremely disgruntled with society in general, but then one day I decided to stop wasting my time and energy on all that and just enjoy my own life and do what makes me happy.

That said, why get upset about the validation/complements at all, Dan? What's so wrong about people saying nice things when they mean them? Does it somehow seem to lessen the integrity of the original poster? I'm serious about this. I'm tired of people saying, "I'm not looking for sympathy," or "I'm not fishing for complements," as if any positive comment is automatically deemed fake due solely to its form (a post on an internet board).

The general malaise and fury that rises in me when reading the newspaper or watching TV or posting to ILX I wonuldn't categorize as misanthropy, because I'm responding to an abstract, not a person. I hate actions that certain people take, but I don't really hate people as much as it might seem.

The fact that I have not actually gotten into a physical brawl with anybody other than my close friends or family since 8th grade is a pretty good indication of this, I think. I often wonder if sometimes my attempts to understand and sympathize with the people I encounter IRL is just a behavior I picked up to keep me out of prison.

also as per misanthropy making you happy: it seems to me that if you were generally disdainful of people & had no expectations for them, as you were impressed/surprised pleasantly by more and more on an individual basis it would be nearly impossible to maintain that level of general disgust. "i hate people but i just know SO MANY nice ones!!" seems a bit extraordinarily hypocritical perhaps.

I'm not sure which is worse-qua-better, but I think that's sort of where the line is. Are people inevitably and irredeemably flawed? Or what?

also i think statements like "i hate people because they are selfish, mean, etc" are misanthropic to an extent but they still focus on perceived negative qualities rather than any general dislike for people. it amounts to "i hate selfishness, meanness, etc"--what about people who disdain the very idea of relationships or community?

x-post: what o. nate said

This is the most important responsibility of being a human in modern society and it's a bit tough on some people apparently, including me. I tend to tolerate most people's petty transgressions as individual lapses, because, well, I don't know them and they don't know me, golden rule, all that.

(offtopic but of interest to me and something I have been mulling: Lately though I have been less forgiving of certain folks, I think because my instincts to be protective and chivalrous, which lay dormant for quite a long time, have been recently taken out of the closet and given a shot of brass polish. I am hating certain people and their actions a lot more than I necessarily would have 6 months ago.)

Are people inherently lazy, stupid, and selfish? I'm not sure what is meant by "inherently" in that sentence. I guess I would interpret "inherently" as being equivalent to "biologically wired to act a certain way". If you accept evolutionary biology, then it seems reasonable to expect that humans are inherently selfish. There's no evolutionary rationale that I can think of for laziness or stupidity though. But naturally humans have the same physical constraints as any animal: ie., a limited degree of perception, memory, awareness, logical ability as well as a tendency to conserve one's energy. So you could equate this with an inherent disposition towards stupidity and laziness.

(xpost)

the other still makes me mad even though it wz in 1976: a grown-up (a teacher) telling a straight lie to ensure i missed a particular project

No, not at all. I'm not upset by compliments, I just don't want this thread to be ALL ABOUT ME. I'm using myself as an example because, well, I'm the only person I can authoritatively talk about, but I really wanted to spark a debate about the abstract question.

in case anyone's still confused.

hell, i'm confused.

This is as silly a blanket statement as saying nice people are actually mostly dicks, introverts are this, extroverts are that, asians drive like THIS.

sometimes assholes are just assholes. sometimes assholes are people who are trying to show a front to the rest of the world. sometimes nice people are just nice people. sometimes they're conniving shitbags waiting to stab you in the back. sometimes people are a combination of all of these things. You can't tell the difference from one to another 99.9% of the time and this is why the entire world is full of unsatisfied individuals who generally look down on the rest of their fellow humans.

this has nothing to do with whether or not Sarah is an asshole though! My science fails here.

(xpost Ally is OTM, which is one of the reasons I originally cast this about me rather than about misanthropes in general; all blanket statements suck cow ass)

(ha)

??? Yes it is!

hopefully it's understood that i'm referring to people i've ACTUALLY INTERACTED WITH.

eg what Mann keeps saying but with more fucking cusswords like

I may be incorrectly equating "blanket statement" and "generalization" here (where by "incorrectly" I really mean "doing so confuses the issue and kicks off a completely irrelevant semantics argument that really isn't necessary").

Fuck you for all those unbe-fucking-lievably nice things you've been telling the whole goddamned shit fuck piss cunt snatch.

insofar as my history w/ people of a certain disposition makes me instantly suspicious of similar ppl i'm meeting for the first time. doesn't mean i won't give them a chance, but my instinct (which i have to fight against sometimes to prove myself as a social animal) is to run far away.

* though this would be great cos I think the more helicopter-homicides that occur, the better.

crosspost with Ally: yeah, that too :)

Have you* ever considered the fact that perhaps the people you* think are so awful think the exact same thing about you* and you* deserve the behavior you* find objectionable?

* (universal you)**
** not exactly but it's not directed at the person who might likely assume she is being spoken to, though i'd be interested in her opinion because in reality i feel the same way as a lot of the things she's posting on this thread

hahaha one liner I am bastard.

That being said, it doesn't stop the fact that I think Horace and Chris P are being fucktards right now. MISANTHROPY HIDING A WOUNDED HEART IS IT NOT TOUCHING???

That's OTM and the shortened version of what I was kind of incoherently saying.

No, it's because people are fucked up and there are a lot of folks who should be very glad I don't know who they are.

My misanthropy comes out in very large doses all at once. I'm out of cigarettes, for example, and none of this is remotely funny.

I am jealous of a lot of the "nice" conniving backstabbers because they probably have a lot more confidence in themselves to be able to behave that way, actually.

I'm not going to discuss "nice" conniving backstabbers here because I am already quite pissed off enough.

xpost

I find, when I have cravings now, a good yell helps. Doesn't necessarily make the craving go away, but it's a good visceral thrill.

It is really fucking irritating to try to hold serious conversation while people are making really horrible jokes all around you, interrupting you. I am trying VERY HARD to ignore this but you know what? I don't think it's fair that apparently Dan is just not allowed to be remotely serious on this message board (same thing started on the "hypocrisy" thread until he blew up), and I think that this reflects a lot more on certain people on ilx than it does on the people trying to discuss this topic.

In a way this is all very on topic and interesting behaviorally.

That is all. Feel free to continue discussion as I'm going to try to reply to the topic at hand. You can feel free to respond to ANY OF ANYONE'S POINTS AT ANY TIME NOW. Or you can continue metacommentary, it's all good.

Dan I apologize.

Hope that doesn't come off heavy or anything.

In some ways you could argue none of us know Dan well at all, even less well than we might know the average poster (if such a thing exists), because of how he posts. Er I hope that's a fair assessment, trying to diffuse things a bit.

I wouldn't ever describe myself as a misanthrope, but in real life I suppose I am a person my friends might describe as cranky, I'd say bitchy but it has connotations of lying and manipulation which aren't really accurate.

I think the thing is, on ILX personality clashes occur cos we're all on here at the same time sort of. In real life you can ignore people you dislike, BUT you may still end up not liking lots of people and being that sort of person. On here nobody really knows if you dislike loads of posters, cos your wider habits of conversation and joking aren't quite as obvious to see.

I guess I'm trying to say you don't really get a clear picture of someone from ILX at all.

But what would you say is the difference? Hypothetical question etc etc I suppose, because I know what you mean but don't at the same time.

I think carrying on having ideals is a good thing; misanthropy in that definition should definitely be avoided IMO.

Anyway I have bought my camels and I am going to smoke one very shortly. I just wanted to add that do not see in myself any sort of dashed idealism or misanthropy generally, I think I simply don't have a lot of patience, which is what I was trying to say earlier about distinguishing misanthropy from general-purpose unhappiness with the world, which I can tell you I have in spades.

Ryan, the 'european nihilist'; that's not a reference to the person who winds me up, is it? Cos that description is SPOT ON.

This is both completely off-topic and one of the best ideas I've heard on ILX today.

I've been mentioning my younger idiot brother a bit recently because he got the bitterness Dan mentions (I got a major lack of confidence, plus feelings of isolation/depression/'misanthropy' etc), but considering the way Dan presents himself here, I'd say that bitterness is tuned up to fucking 20. In fact, after 4 years of not knowing how to deal with the moron, yesterday, I turned into the model of restraint, control and clarity and pretty much told him he had no place in my life anymore (he was 'moving out', despite keeping a key to ours, but he decided to kick off an argument over a duvet). I even impressed the German girl my 2nd brother invited over, even though it was shitty to have a total stranger watch a scene that ugly.

To picture my brother, imagine Dizzee Rascal as this obnoxious, selfish/self-interested/self-involved, delusional, arrogant, bullying, smoke-stinking, brain-fried fuck with serious maturity issues. Still, thanks to him, I was able to have the first clear, back'n'forth conversation with my mum ever.

I would start a "what is a misogynist?" thread but I fear what would come of it.

I think that perhaps "misanthropy" is best understood as a condition that you fall under temporarily, like during the holiday season or during wartime, and "misanthrope" is best left as the kind of word that gets used in titles of creative works and not actually applied to anyone as a fixed label.

That makes sense to me. Just considering the way I react to things, I seem to go back and forth between hating people and thinking there's a lot of good in the world. The hating people part has to do with being disappointed when people are inconsiderate dumbasses. I would much rather be able to see the good in people all the time, or manage to strike a realistic balance, but then I'd be well-adjusted and I just can't quite imagine that.

I am at heart, fundamentally a very paranoid person. This paranoia results from harsh personal experience, and often manifests itself as misanthropy. I would *like* to give people the benefit of the doubt, I would like to believe in the fundamental goodness of human beings, but it seems like every time I do, I get kicked in the teeth. Hard.

Every time I think I'm too paranoid, it turns out that I'm not paranoid enough.

Misanthropy is terrible when it turns into a blanket excuse for being rude to people all the time. I work next door to a call centre for a hospital, and I hear the people here deal with *amazing* amount of true misanthropy all the time, at the other end of their lines. Real misanthropic codgers who are bitter at the world and take it out on whoever they are forced to interact with.

I'm astonished at the resilience of these people who work here. They are genuinely *nice* people - I hear the way they talk to each other and to me while they're not on the phones. They're extraverts, they're optimists, they're cheerful, they're genuinely friendly. But I also see them in *polite* mode, as they talk on the phone to these misanthropes, and I see them biting their tongues and continuing to be polite, long after I'd have slammed the phone down and told the other party to fuck off.

So in my mind, that's the difference between "nice" and "polite".

Hypocrisy is another issue, to be dealt with separately. It's human nature to hate in other people what you fear most in yourself. People who call me a hypocrite for calling them on behaviour that I myself practice - are not coincidentally among the biggest hypocrites themselves when the shoe is on the other foot. Hypocrisy becomes a circle, and a self perpetuating circle.

I am often aware of my own hypocrisy, because I know that the people who have the most power to rub me the wrong way (as opposed to deliberately winding me up) are those who are most similar to me.

Because someone is a hypocrite, does that make them wrong? If behaviour is "bad", it's bad for everyone, and that goes for the "sin" being decried as well as the "hypocrisy".

It is really fucking irritating to try to hold serious conversation while people are making really horrible jokes all around you

Everyone should read and re-read this, then act by it. Can it go in the FAQ please?

Is is alright to make horrible jokes while a serious conv. is being held around me...

Unlike, you know, you and Chris with the 8 billion photos of chicken fried steak on the post pictures of yourself thread a few months ago, or Horace yesterday, or jess going onto the "this is the thread where I say" threads a few months ago and posting 400 things about how much he hates those people.

I mean, there's a time and a place for everything. I don't follow around, for example, Horace on every single thread, humorous or serious, and tell him to shut up. Just like I wouldn't go on the "this is the thread where I say" thread and be nasty/sarcastic/"edgy". Nor would I post a dumb .gif on a thread about, say, manic depression. It just takes about 4 milliseconds of thought to figure out if you are behaving in a manner appropriate to the conversation at hand.

okay ally, will you stop putting those hideous gifs on EVERY GODDAMN FUCKING THREAD ON ILE THEN?

If it were that easy we wouldn't need 5,000 variations of the "shout for the moderator" thread.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

http://ox.eicat.ca/~scarruthers/ilx/pope-dan.jpg

And if the weather sucks, then you stand around in it for a while, and then when you go back inside and sit down at the computer again you can be all "jesus, this is so much better than standing out in that damn weather!"

NEXT TIME JUST ASK YOU MISANTHROPIC BITCH!!

(that's a joke)

(the misanthropic bitch part and the all caps I mean. Seriously, if people would just ask and then listen when people ask everything will be much smoother round these parts)

THIS IS TOO MUCH META FOR ME, TIME FOR A SMOKE.

that's not true at all.

enjoy your smoke. i'm going to have one too.

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/searchresults.php?board=1&mode=messages&q=alizee&titlepart=&name=allyzay&email=&username=&dateafter=&datebefore=&catid=all

14 hits from Ally.

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/searchresults.php?board=1&mode=messages&q=Alizee&titlepart=&name=&email=&username=&dateafter=&datebefore=&catid=all

67 hits overall.

Draw whatever conclusions you want.

á bas xpost

Interpret this assignment however you wish.

Not if you really hate people, Ned.

Hm...

The one good thing about today is that there was already a thread on misanthropy, so it takes the pressure off of starting a new one.

I'm becoming more conscious of a personal and gradual slide into misanthropy. I think it's a combination of my living situation (see my pathetic posts from the last 3 months of the Boulder the most liberal city in Colorado? thread if you're that bored), my choice of career (I'm basically going to be arguing with people who I think have dangerous views on energy and environment until the day I die), and a growing awareness of the cognitive dissonance that it requires to keep going with the knowledge of the horrific nature of life for so many others.

Most of the time I can keep things under control, but lately small things have been getting to me. Yesterday I was walking home from work, down a sidewalk with no one else around. In the distance, a skateboarder came into view, coming toward me. My eyesight is terrible, but as he got closer I realized he was flipping me off. Coasting downhill and flipping me off, he perfectly held his pose, maintaining eye contact with me the entire time, and passed me. Even after he passed, he twisted so that he could prolong the event for as long as possible, even as he was 50-60 feet away in the other direction. It was impressive, really. But at the same time it sent me into a fit of self-loathing and then cynicism. This other guy's misanthropy spread into me like a virus. Then today the same thing happened, only this time it was a car full of college kids blasting THE RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS, and driving by with all of their middle fingers out the right windows of the Escalade that their Dads bought them.

I don't like feeling like this, and I don't like my misanthropy trajectory either. I felt similarly in high school but attributed that to my high school-ness. After several years of feeling pretty ok about the world, I didn't expect to slide into it again so quickly.

A lot of the people who posted on this thread 4 years ago are still here. How's your misanthropy? Or lack of?

you gotta learn to laugh at & appreciate the first one (tho it sounds like you did)

the other one its like those kids are douchebags who cares

i dunno maybe im just better at shrugging off stupid behavior than most people, possibly because i engage in a lot of it myself

my misanthropy used to be worse. right now instead of taking others' stupidity personally i'm more inclined to (a) laugh it off, or (b) use it as an excuse for further self-improvement (to right the balance of the universe).

"It seems that an odd side-effect of my misanthropy is that I am much more likely to excuse the bad behavior of others than most other people. (Conversely I'm also more likely to engage in bad behavior than others."

this is sorta what im saying & sorta not - i dont think im a misanthrope, i actually enjoy most people for their various quirks - if its not truly personal or truly affecting you personally, theres no real reason to give a shit about that person.

whats your career choice ZS?

I probably derailed my own post by mentioning the skateboarder and the Escalade. I mean, I recognize that's just lol college kids trying to rebel in the safest way possible, by rolling off in the opposite direction. Shit, I think last year, even, my girlfriend was driving me somewhere, and I saw some middle school kid walking down a sidewalk and I couldn't help rolling down the window and yelling "YA POOPAH!" with a Harry Carey voice at him, really loudly. I felt pretty bad about it, but yeah, we all have our moments of weakness. The power of flying by someone really quickly is corrupting.

I'm more interested in talking about the relationship between nature of humanity and misanthropy.

xpost

Environmental/energy policy analysis

my life from like age 12 on has been a slide from misanthropy and into... whatever the other thing is.

apathy?

^^thats basically me from age 21 to now (ie the last year or so)

xp haha not in my case

I think I meet far more decent people than arseholes. My misanthropy is more about that whole self-loathing you mentioned than it is a genuine feeling about human beings. And like all the stupid things I do and feel when I'm depressed it's self-propelling, it makes shit worse. I am trying to learn to lol keep it positive in real life, because the alternative is stupidly bleak. It's all about where you focus and how hard you want to not drown.

when i was in lol high school i had a friend who loved to yell random shit at random people in passing, usually w/ goading - most of the time it was I HAVE WEST NILE DISEASE

which is pretty funny i think, or was at the time

then this one day he accidently yelled something at a blind chick & i was like dude that is really not cool & he was like I DIDNT KNOW SHE WAS BLIND MAN

in other words, dont take it personally, theyre most likely just harmless & stupid

in other words, dont take it personally, theyre most likely just harmless & stupid maddening assholes

least i dont hate monkeys

;_; <----- this thread

THREAD NEEDS SURMOUNTER

Dan, I actually think "nice" and "polite" are more or less the same thing. That's actually a theory I've been rolling around my head for a bit lately, that politeness is what it all boils down to.

-- Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, December 17, 2003 5:44 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Link

I don't know. I think that "polite" involves making an effort, while "nice" is something which is more natural.

-- HRH Queen Kate (kate), Wednesday, December 17, 2003 5:52 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Link

Yeah, see, maybe I'm feeling all pomo lately or something, but I'm not believe in that sense of "natural" -- I think the people who make "nice" seem "natural' are just really good at the polite thing.

-- Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, December 17, 2003 6:06 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Link

This is SO OTM. Being nice, insofar as having social graces, is just a matter of practice & self-enforcement. I mean, I am sure some people are born more altruistic than others (which could be a facet of 'niceness'), but no one is naturally polite. It's a cultural thing that has to be taught, and when someone learns it, they act in a way that is gracious and nice by most people's definitions. Like sprezzatura; making one's long-cultivated manners and patience seem natural, an art in and of itself.

Thread needs Yelling Things (Sometimes Insults) At People From Cars - C or D?

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I think I meet far more decent people than arseholes. My misanthropy is more about that whole self-loathing you mentioned than it is a genuine feeling about human beings.

^^^this all the way, really. Like I hang around with certain people who really go in for uneccessary snark, of the sort of that sometimes tips over into bona fide vitriol, about mutual acquaintances or whatever and I often tend to find myself saying or at least thinking "what is it you're even making an issue out of". Which then gets me thinking as to whether it's in fact me glossing over people's evident douchebag qualities and round and round and zzzz

i think that people are the greatest fun.

philanthropy is the other thing /pedant

and a growing awareness of the cognitive dissonance that it requires to keep going with the knowledge of the horrific nature of life for so many others.

See, I think this knowledge is what has pushed me away from any remnants of misanthropy. Maybe try altering your perspective - ie, if you feel like a misanthrope, you're going to be one. So look at this is empathy rather than cognitive dissonance. You have a healthy level of respect and caring for your fellow man, that is not a bad thing.

see also: George Saunders, "People Reluctant To Kill For An Abstraction"

People Reluctant To Kill For An Abstraction

Saunders reading it on San Francisco radio:
http://www.kqed.org/arts/people/profile.jsp?id=19146

everybody go listen to xasthur then tell me you're still a misanthrope

looks like we've cheered up

apathy?

-- and what, Sunday, July 27, 2008 7:42 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

not sure if you're joking but no not at all... i feel like if anything i am always more and more interested in people and want them around me. it amazes me now how transparent my earlier so-called misanthropy was... total insecurity, total "i'll reject you first!"

if you're obsessed with studying how shitty ppl can be to each other (and be raised jewish and it's hard not to be) it can be easy to want to write humanity off. but at the same time it's hard not to come away from it with an awareness of how cutting yourself off from other people leads to major badness, or at least to being capable of major badness.

^^^ that came out pretty mushmouthed but i hope you get the point

Shit, I think last year, even, my girlfriend was driving me somewhere, and I saw some middle school kid walking down a sidewalk and I couldn't help rolling down the window and yelling "YA POOPAH!" with a Harry Carey voice at him, really loudly.

i lol'd hard at the office about this.

That doesn't make it right!

I was recalling that incident to said GF last night, and she made me feel pretty bad. She told me the hidden side of the story, previously unknown to me, where the kid went home and cried and cried into his pillow all night. I laughed it off, but then I remembered that when I was a kid (a few years younger than Ya Poopah kid, but still) I used to come home and cry about the onslaught of "SHRIMP!" and "SHORT STUFF!" comments I would get everyday at school. So maybe it's true. Maybe that kid shit his pants earlier that day, and then my Poopah comment struck a delicate nerve with him. Never again.

i slide in and out of misanthropy like a pair of slippers. great for when you have to go outside to get the newspaper but for walking on a nature hike? not so useful.

yelling on the run at middle school kids as a 20-something is kind of a no-no, yeah

as he got closer I realized he was flipping me off

Reminds me of something that happened this weekend. I was on a group bike ride in upstate New York, a pretty big event, hundreds of riders. We were going down some small, rural back road and this guy drives slowly by in a pick-up truck with his arm extended out the window. As he gets closer, I realize he is flipping all of us (the bike-riders) off as he goes by. Kind of funny, I guess, though it was a bit irritating at the time.

that makes me a combination of amused, sad, angry, and loathfully homicidal

i guess i am a misanthrope. my feeling is if you hate people, but don't include yourself as one of them, you're probably just an asshole.

i have a friend who comes off as a huge misogynist. deep down inside he is a hopeless sappy romantic. i think maybe some misanthropes are like this. just fundamentally disappointed about people and society. i don't think negative strong feelings come from nowhere, and in a lot of cases i think for a sensitive and emotional person, love and hope swings easily toward bitterness and hatred after being hurt by whatever it was he/she had such high regard for.

i've tried my whole life to be a good person, and to constantly improve myself. i know that i fail miserably often, but nothing makes me hate a person more than realizing they don't even try. little things that indicate to me that a person isn't even trying tend to set me off and make me irrationally hateful. any kind of selfish entitlement... things such as: rude aggressive driving (endangering other drivers, cyclists, and especially pedestrians... because your objective is so much more important than those of everybody else) tend to set me off to the point of seeming like an overreaction to people around me. it's because to me it's symbol of something that i consider to be the greatest wrong.

that makes me a combination of amused, sad, angry, and loathfully homicidal

I felt that way initially, but I guess it kind of falls into the realm of free speech (albeit indiscrinate, Know-Nothingist speech). It would have been different had he tried to run us off the road or something.

i mean i loath the feeling of being homicidal, that it is a response at all. i am in constant struggle against everyday feeling and evidence that most people are idiots on whom free speech is completely wasted. at the same time i am also constantly meeting people who make me glad to be alive and in the world. so, yknow...

years ago i made an email account called optimistic.misanthropist but then thought better of actually using it

i just wanna give the world one big hug!

http://images15.imikimi.com/image/images_full/71232715.jpg

i just wanna give the world one big hug!

But you couldn't do that without smothering billions of people to death. Unless you were transparent.

This world is DOOMED, we can't even give everyone big hugz.

the proper misanthrope response to that is: good.

it's clearly a metaphysical proposition, an allegory of sorts.

xpost

It seems that an odd side-effect of my misanthropy is that I am much more likely to excuse the bad behavior of others than most other people

this is otm! i am fairly relaxed about the behaviour of people i know in real life. this also makes me quite hardline about people who do actually cross the line and do something i find inexcusable, it's kind of like "even i think that's out of order..."

what i'm really really not relaxed about = people walking slowly in front of me, being inconsiderate or clumsy on public transport &c. this is because i am always late and in a rush, and walk faster than anyone i know, and can't really comprehend people who seem happy to take their time while travelling.

I think my dad is always walking in front of you. The fastest speed he can attain is "ambling."

ambling in a park on a wide path with acres of space for people in a hurry to overtake you = fine, whatever
ambling on a crowded city pavement in rush hr = die

i don't mind slow walkers as long as they don't hog the whole sidewalk. one day my head is going to explode Scanners-stylewhile trying to get around some slow walking simp who is texting someone on his cell phone.

especially if they are wearing flip-flops for some reason

amateur-hour misanthropy

couples are actually the worst for the slow-walking/pavement-hogging combo

old people walk slowly but tend to be really considerate & aware of others, it'd be bad form to hate on them

I have kind of the opposite problem: I've gotten to a point where, in the abstract, I'm cool with everyone. Whenever anyone criticizes or judges some action or some broad category of people, my first response is to go neutral -- it's never too hard to understand the headspace of people, to figure we're all human and muddling through and basically okay. I feel like I have lots of conversations where someone says "ugh, I hate X, Y, and Z," and I immediately take the position of justifying other people's perspectives or behavior, or saying I'm interested in or entertained by them.

One drawback to that is how often it means taking this neutral stance of observing and considering people, rather than contradicting them or challenging them or really full-on engaging with them. Another possible drawback is that lately, when random people do specific things that tick me off, I feel like I get more viscerally angry than I used to, which may or may not be related to being all neutral and indulgent and "understanding" about people's behavior in general.

^^ haha possibly this is exactly what Lex is saying, yes

i went round my mate's new boyfriend's flat on friday. dude is like 32, and dresses like a little boy and has loads of vintage toys everywhere. even had one of those arcade machines with hundreds of games on them. total emotionally stunted hipster type. i was all ready to get my hate on, but then he made me a really tasty, strong long island ice tea. so... live and let live, i s'pose.

amateur-hour misanthropy

OTM

It's my partially my own fault, maybe, for bringing up stuff like rich teenage assholes and so on, but people walking slowly in front of you falls more into the category of "things I am annoyed by", not misanthropy.

I suppose being overly understanding of other people's foibles and limited perspectives and human weaknesses might actually be the other side of misanthropy -- it's just a question of whether you think people are awful, or you think people are "awful" in a way that's totally normal, relatable, forgivable, human, beautiful, etc.

xpost

Wait a second, I would love to have a MAME cabinet with hundreds of games on it. Potentially, I might even be able to afford one in the seven years before I turn 32. But people will hate on me for that? fuuuuck, man.

Another possible drawback is that lately, when random people do specific things that tick me off, I feel like I get more viscerally angry than I used to, which may or may not be related to being all neutral and indulgent and "understanding" about people's behavior in general.

I find myslef more curious than judgmental much of the time and I am anything if not indulgent of people's foibles but I find, like nabisco, that little things can occasionally really set me off.

If they do, they are just jealous, ZS.

not if you make good cocktails

xpost

like what, MW?

im hardly a zen type or anything but i always laugh @ people who get sincerely angry about 'little things'

If they do, they are just jealous, ZS.

Yep. Jeez, it would have 2-player, you know?

Whenever anyone criticizes or judges some action or some broad category of people, my first response is to go neutral

I do sort of the same thing, but it's largely because it always seems like the people who are doing that kind of broad-brush painting are usually the same people who have some flagrant character flaw that they don't seem to realize.

Also, it's happened too many times that I've been told some tale of woe, been filled with righteous indignation, and then found out that the story was not nearly as one-sided as it appeared. The net result is that I often don't believe anyone, anymore: except in the most extreme cases, I always suspect them of omitting those parts of the story that don't reflect well on them.

The corollary is that if I witness behavior that seems even somewhat sociopathic -- and/or what rockapads described as "any kind of selfish entitlement...things such as: rude aggressive driving" -- it doesn't take much to make me start wishing for the complete and utter destruction of the person in question. I don't like that feeling, but nor do I like the feeling that we're all just slowly sliding into oblivion because no one will do anything about the people in the world who are behaving badly.

Life is made of little things.

Or what Charlie said.

I have kind of the opposite problem: I've gotten to a point where, in the abstract, I'm cool with everyone. Whenever anyone criticizes or judges some action or some broad category of people, my first response is to go neutral -- it's never too hard to understand the headspace of people, to figure we're all human and muddling through and basically okay. I feel like I have lots of conversations where someone says "ugh, I hate X, Y, and Z," and I immediately take the position of justifying other people's perspectives or behavior, or saying I'm interested in or entertained by them.

this is totes me.

Misanthropy is a kind of despair that doesn't seem to lead anywhere worth going. Even if you have to put blind trust in its opposite, it seems best to avoid misanthropy.

Ha, Michael, sometimes I wonder if this is the start of the path to becoming some kind of social equivalent of the "limousine liberal" -- i.e., happy about the diversity of opinions, behaviors, and flaws right up until one of them physically inconveniences you. But I think it's probably more what Lex says, where by the time someone cuts through your calm and empathy, they must be doing something really obnoxious.

(Reviewing this, though, I think there are totally judgmental biases in my behavior: e.g., I do not get pissed at old ladies and non-English-speakers for fucking up or breaking rules at the dog run, but let an NYU kid or fancy publicist lady so much as forget to scoop and I am filled with hate and disdain.)

xpost - S1ocki, what amazes me is how many people among the young urban "creative class" don't have that attitude, considering that people like that/us tend to be a pretty big target of pointless "I hate those fuckers" attitude. Maybe it's just having spent too much time on the internet or something, but hating on people just seems ... dull and depressing.

ha who's not a target of 'i hate those fuckers' attitude?

xpost - S1ocki, what amazes me is how many people among the young urban "creative class" don't have that attitude, considering that people like that/us tend to be a pretty big target of pointless "I hate those fuckers" attitude. Maybe it's just having spent too much time on the internet or something, but hating on people just seems ... dull and depressing.

-- nabisco, Monday, July 28, 2008 8:39 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

ppl who are hated tend to hate more!

not that i put hipsters in a category of people who are unduly oppressed or despised really.

"if you thought the bosnian muslims had it bad, wait till you meet these web designers!"

like Dr Zaius, I believe man's wisdom must walk hand in hand with his idiocy.

dr morbius quoting dr zaius... what a world!

Dudes, I don't mean "oppressed or despised," I just mean it's one category where I'd have thought people would be slightly more conscious of being snobbish / judgmental / bitchy -- partly because it's a demographic that deals with ultra-fine INTERNAL gradations of snobbery, judgment, and bitchery (so people should know how it works), and partly because duh, it's so obvious to be a smug urban creative who feels superior to everyone

I don't have any liberal guilt about being willfully tolerant of a lot of things and not tolerant about a select few. Age and experience have taught me a certain amount of humility but I have no qualms about being intolerant of egregious acts of selfishness or cruelty.

One reason I feel tolerant, I guess, is that I have abrogated for myself the right to be as weird and picky as I want to be all while maintaining a committment to dialogue and exchange. The people who think I'm a snob tend to overlook the fact that I'm only really demanding of myself not of others. I do find it easier to deal with humanity if I humbly recall my own shortcomings and don't expect too much out of us on average and the one thing I find unforgiveable about the intolerant is not just their omphaloskepsis but the tedium of their conversation.

Dudes, I don't mean "oppressed or despised," I just mean it's one category where I'd have thought people would be slightly more conscious of being snobbish / judgmental / bitchy -- partly because it's a demographic that deals with ultra-fine INTERNAL gradations of snobbery, judgment, and bitchery (so people should know how it works), and partly because duh, it's so obvious to be a smug urban creative who feels superior to everyone

-- nabisco, Monday, July 28, 2008 9:00 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i know but you have to admit that being something doesn't mean you're necessarily conscious of it.

yeah omphaloskepsis really chaps my hide too

steve motherfuckin omphaloskepsis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEVE432maUw

ppl who are hated tend to hate more!

and people who tend to hate tend to hate more
which is pretty much why i'm not actually misanthropic, and when i lean too much into that way of being, i feel like i'm dying.
xposts

yeah, my frustration with humanity usually stems from constant reminders of how close-minded and intolerant so many people are. but then i think, well, only a very very small percentage of the population is truly sociopathic, that is, the majority of people do love other people and do feel emotion and value life. so they don't agree with me, i don't really care, as my way works for me but obv can't possibly work for everyone. well, it could, but then we'd be invoking iron fists and etc.

The people who think I'm a snob tend to overlook the fact that I'm only really demanding of myself not of others.

This relates to one of the things that bemuses me about human nature (and actually, about ILX specifically as well) -- the way people completely freak the fuck out when they become convinced that Person X "thinks (s)he's better than me".

but then i think, well, only a very very small percentage of the population is truly sociopathic, that is, the majority of people do love other people and do feel emotion and value life.

I find the 5% figure for sociopaths alarmingly plausible, though thankfully most of them either fuck up very early on (so everyone knows their deal) or tend to go about their business quietly, i.e. without murder and mayhem).

amateur-hour misanthropy

i really don't get the vibe that anyone posting on this thread is a true misanthrope. would a true misanthrope be posting about their feelings on an internet message board in the first place?

also, if i think Larry David is OTM in just about every episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm, does that make me a misanthrope?

probably a good thread on its own

also, if i think Larry David is OTM in just about every episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm, does that make me a misanthrope?

I don't entirely believe this (you probably wouldn't, e.g., steal flowers from a memorial to a friend's dead parent), but I think it mostly just means that Larry David writes Curb Your Enthusiasm

Although I was totally inspired by the episode where he died, and fully plan to spend my last deathbed moments making people admit that they were wrong about petty things like lost DVD cases

LD the writer has said that LD the character is basically a full expression of his id - how he really wants to treat humanity but doesnt because he's got, like, manners & shit

I think slightly more of that show revolves around people being unreasonable to him than him being unreasonable to other people, really -- if it's his id, it's everyone else's, too. Most of it's gamed so he does something small and annoying and other people respond with something even worse.

that's true... though that pretty much makes it a misanthropic view of the world.

well maybe it seems that way to us because we basically agree with LD the writer, whereas there are some people who think the show is funny (or completely hate the show) because they think LD is an irredeemable asshole.

sorry that was xp

im hardly a zen type or anything but i always laugh @ people who get sincerely angry about 'little things'

-- deeznuts, Monday, July 28, 2008 8:26 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Haha as a literal 'zen type' can I just say that, like Nabisco & MW, I'm pretty laid back and see people's (and my own) shortcomings as just what they are, a natural part of people being people. Larger things really don't bother me (my gf says I "never get upset, it's actually really frustrating sometimes"), but I have a small handful of pet peeves:

-computer slowing down
-being repeatedly interrupted while trying to do something
-slow things/people when i'm a hurry

I'm often told I'm too passive & tolerant, and that others see me as a pushover & will take advantage of my laid-back attitude. Probably true.

That's just a question of judiciously choosing your battles.

yeah when people try to take your money you say no in 90% of the cases, otherwise be as generous as possible

this is my life philosophy

The Tao of Deeznuts

by lol tzu

Deeznuts are as supple as a bow;
the high made lower, and the lowly raised.
It shortens the string which has been stretched,
and lengthens that which has become too short.

It is the way of Deeznuts to take from those
who have a surplus to what they need,
providing for those without enough.
The way of the ordinary person,
is not the way of Deeznuts.

I felt real hate today. In the gym this girl was whining to her friend about being a bridesmaid for her cousin's wedding - about how stupid the bride was to even ask her as she didn't believe in weddings and all that shit and she didn't want to have to get involved with all that wedding stuff and the bride is spending 2 grand on a dress and spending an OBSCENE amount on an engagement ring when everyone KNOWS diamonds are so UNETHICAL, and she couldn't be *bothered* to go to New Zealand for the wedding (presumably bride was forking out for that too), she'd rather be spending time with her boyfriend. She was really whining for England and I just wanted to scream 'DON'T AGREE TO BE A FUCKING BRIDESMAID THEN YOU SPOILT COW' . I mean, would it have been wrong to politely point that out? Who on earth would want someone agreeing to be a bridesmaid at your wedding then slagging you off at every opportunity behind your back and sneering at everything you've done for it?

Hahaha whoah, I have a whole life-is-complicated / people-are-people defense of the "spoilt cow" I could offer if you're interested

I would like to see it but only if you promise me that it won't make my eyes roll hardcore back up into my head.

i think if the life is complicated defense isnt immediately visible to you, you might not ever see it

Eh, never mind, I guess the short version is just that we all have social obligations and things we don't want to do but do anyway, and so maybe some isolated gym-based whining about one of those things doesn't entirely call for jail time or anything.

(The truth is that I'm secretly impressed and slightly envious of people whose personalities and life-structures are strong enough to feel aggrieved by stuff like that, rather than just being meekly depressed or pretending to be happy about it or fearing how people would react if you were entirely honest about such things.)

I can all make an awesome loop of judgment by defending her being judgmental about the ring -- I mean, it's natural for people to want to feel superior sometimes, right?

(/glib paradox-advocate argument)

(xpost)
Yeah, but being around ppl who chronically complain about stuff can be as insufferable as being around ppl who take a more passive-aggressive route.

(And the ppl who are eminently reasonable enough to express their frustrations in a healthy way, without resorting to either extreme, are the most insufferable of all...to the rest of us humans, anyhow)

The truth is that I'm secretly impressed and slightly envious of people whose personalities and life-structures are strong enough to feel aggrieved by stuff like that

I see people who get upset about minor things and just shake my head. "Why waste your energy and your time getting so fired up about something so minor?"

i worry that doing so makes me condescending.

yeah but hoos lets be real for a minute you dont get to decide whats minor and major for other people!

Great point!

xxpost

I think I come off that way to people sometimes (I have a perhaps undeserved reputation among some friends as being "easy-going" and openminded)...but once they spend enough time around me then they eventually get to see the side which gets broody and irritable b/c I am hungry but too stupid to eat...or feel slighted in some way by some miniscule incident but refuse to admit that a. said incident is truly what i'm upset about and/or b. it's pretty insignificant in the long run

sayin--if you dont want to be condescending, dont be condescending

wheres ur tao at

Yeah I mean usually it's a temporary annoyance that's met in my head with "that's who they are where they're at. Quit worryin about them and just be where you're at, dude."

It's the other half of the Heart Sutra: form is emptiness, but emptiness is form too, and we gotta live with form. Form's all we got!

the sound of one hoos clapping

max what is your point

I think his point is twofold

-It's easy not to be condescending: don't be condescending.
-Different people have different priorities. Can't project mine onto others as though they match.

Oh sorry, I was unclear up there: I meant I'm impressed by / envious of people who are secure enough in their place to be all like "OMG and the ring was RIDICULOUS and I can't believe she wants me to go to NEW ZEALAND," etc. etc. etc. -- personally I think I fear the criticism and disapproval of others far too much to react this way to anything, and tend to assume that I (and not the other person) am the one who's somehow weird or dysfunctional.

E.g., if asked to be in a wedding party in another country, I would probably fret to myself about how I am some kind of low-ambition failure and everyone else is running around having fancy weddings while I eat cereal and now I am going to have to admit to everyone that unlike all of them, my life is not cool enough to allow for blithely jetting off to New Zealand for a wedding weekend.

I see people who get upset about minor things and just shake my head. "Why waste your energy and your time getting so fired up about something so minor?"

most of the time when people react to shit you see as minor it has jack-all to do w/ the action & a lot to do w/ shit thats going on with them elsewhere - this doesnt excuse getting pissed over something minor

max seems to be taking some kind of never intrude ever tack which is bs

you are pretty argumentative deeznuts

most of the time when people react to shit you see as minor it has jack-all to do w/ the action & a lot to do w/ shit thats going on with them elsewhere - this doesnt excuse getting pissed over something minor

deeznuts, the point is that what may seem minor to me may be significantly more important to someone else based on the tornado of life that surrounds them at any given moment: that thing I think is minor is possibly not minor at all, and that's not my call to make. It's theirs.

max seems to be taking some kind of never intrude ever tack which is bs

-- deeznuts, Tuesday, July 29, 2008 12:59 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

I should intrude on someone else and say "ayo your priorities are fucked, shit is stupid!" ? Why would I put myself into a confrontation like that which is sure to only get uglier from the point of my initiation?

I factor a certain degree of horrifying terrible behavior into my definition of "humanity," so it's hard for me to hate humanity for horrifying terrible behavior.

I am some kind of low-ambition failure and everyone else is running around having fancy weddings while I eat cereal

lol all over the place there.

It was more how proud she was that she was declaring herself anti-marriage and that she had figured out diamonds are unethical etc etc. And even how proud she was that she was so aggrieved by this whole thing and she was being such a martyr. If you want to discuss viewpoints on marriage with your cousin, do that, rather than moan repeatedly to strangers about how retarded she is for even asking you to be bridesmaid. She did actually say the bride + groom were really f-ing stupid for thinking she was the kind of person to do it.... er, which she then chose to agree to.

She sounds tiresome, but I'll bet the bride is even more so.

Or at least to someone who doesn't share her diamond be-ringed, wedding-dressed perspective. If you like that kind of thing, you probably think the bride is lovely and "correct" and her cranky cousin is a terrible human being.

you're really writing off anyone who has a conventional-sounding wedding?

I think the point of Curb Your Enthusiasm is that LD lets things you think but aren't vicious enough to express aloud.

lets OUT

Hmm. Let's just say I'm reserving the cousin's right to be cranky about it, shall we? Although I respect whatshisface's judgement of her tone, she sounds like her own piece of work. Anyway, the point is that misanthropy: an equal opportunity activity.

Besides, who makes people go to New Zealand? I'd love to visit the Bats, too, but I hope the happy couple IS paying for it since that's like $1500 in airfare!

You guys, this is fun.

Misanthropy is great fun!

Scavengers and sycophants and flatterers
and fools
Pharisees and parasites and hypocrites
and ghouls
Calculating swindlers, prevaricating frauds
Perpetrating evil as they roam the earth
in hordes
Feeding on their fellow men
Reaping rich rewards
Contaminating everything they see
Corrupting honest me like me
Humbug! Poppycock! Balderdash! Bah!

I hate people! I hate people!
People are despicable creatures
Loathesome inexplicable creatures
Good-for-nothing kickable creatures
I hate people! I abhor them!
When I see the indolent classes
Sitting on their indolent asses
Gulping ale from indolent glasses

I hate people! I detest them! I deplore them!
Fools who have no money spend it
Get in debt then try to end it
Beg me on their knees befriend them
Knowing I have cash to lend them
Soft-hearted me! Hard-working me!
Clean-living, thrifty and kind as can be!
Situations like this are of interest to me

I hate people! I loathe people! I despise and abominate people!
Life is full of cretinous wretches
Earning what their sweatiness fetches
Empty minds whose pettiness stretches
Further than I can see
Little wonder I hate people
And I don't care if they hate me!

I knew there was a reason I liked you, Bill.

i'd rather get annoyed and rage at little things and take her handy for the bigger things. everyday rage is a nice way to let off steam.

(i never usually let out this rage at people, mind- mainly i just shout at them from the silence of the car interior, with the windows up)

the internet saves lives.

My friend and I were chillin in the city park the other day and this elderly lady in a motorized wheelchair rolls up, with her cute little dog perched on the footrest, enjoying the ride, and the lady asks us how we're doing on this fine day. My friend says "Not worth a MOTHER FUCK." She rolls off horrified. It was more a prank than genuine misanthropy (or WAS it?), but we lolled.

doesn't seem like either, it's just common or garden bad form. retelling your asshole anecdotes on the internet doesn't make you any less contemptible

i kind of hope your 'misanthropy', if that's the term you want to dignify that sort of behaviour with, is motivated by low self-esteem, cuz then you'd be right about that at least

wait, right about what?

YOUR LOW SELF-ESTEEM IS JUSTIFIED

doesn't seem like either,

no, I'm pretty sure it was a prank??

retelling your asshole anecdotes on the internet doesn't make you any less contemptible

I was hoping it would?

Anyway I, personally, wouldn't have said it. My friend is usually well mannered and it was just the randomness that amused me. It was probably wasn;t worth recounting here, but it's only the internet.

nice to see lex sticking up for the aged

not gonna judge here but i don't get how being rude counts as a prank?

best prank evar!

did you get her purse, wanko?

http://beat.bodoglife.com/wp-content/uploads/ashton-kutcher-punkd.jpg

I find it interesting that Wanko's "prank" sounds so much like exactly the juvenile behavior ZS was talking about when he revived this thread.

You swore at an elderly woman! It doesn't get any rofflier.

I'm no good at misanthropy...I just feel guilty. Like if I'm bitching about someone, I always think "what if they find out I said that? I'll feel awful".

The other night when Amy Winehouse was rushed to hospital, I feel a bit bad because I'd been doodling on her face in the paper on the same day. I feel a pang of regret.

Same goes for self-loathing, what's the point?

^^ we should all aspire to jel-dom. I mean, he looks like Dr. Who and everything

P.S. Wanko your friend is a wuss and a total bush-league psychopath -- if he thinks it's so hilarious to do mean things to elderly disabled women who ask how you're doing, the least he could have done is punched her in the face and stolen her dog

P.P.S. The correct answer when elderly disabled women ask you how you're doing is "fine, thank you"

unless youre in a car, in which case--yell away

If you are in a car you pass along the damned Grey Poupon and then go on your way

picture of wanko
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/27/arts/widmark450.jpg

she looks terrified, but you know she's really enjoying the prank. it's the roller coaster rider type terrified look.

^^^ lol @ username

^^^ lol @ user

hey i just thought that "granny dainger" was quite an amusing username in the context of this conversation

whereas yr just some "everybody loves raymond" fan lookin to score cheap points

uh-oh, now it's on

itt: misanthropy

I was laughing at your joke, jerkstore

oops sorry

fwiw i now hate the internet and love nabisco

nice to see lex sticking up for the aged

-- goole, Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:01 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

ive only seen the youtube edit "fight scenes from the equalizer" but i feel v sure that the movie "the equalizer" is the greatest movie ever made

can anyone confirm/deny this pls

are you sure you don't mean

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Equalizer

i know its

well i assume its, tbh

a remake

i had to find out whether there was a reggae musician named "the equalizer" and to my eternal relief there is