Should bestiality be illegal? If so, why?

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Arguments along "because it's disgusting" lines are not acceptable.

― Barry S., Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Because it's in most cases cruelty towards animals, I think.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Not a C-Man thread!

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

But anyway, um, er, dur, pity the children. Yeah.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see the "in most cases cruelty towards animals" argument, Tuomas. Firstly, I'm not sure that it is in most cases, and secondly, are you saying that when it doesn't constitute cruelty, it should be legal?

― Barry S., Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Imagine the CHILDREN. Can't really express why it's wrong in any simpler way.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:27 (twenty-one years ago)

How would you get/prove consent exactly?

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

If it purrs.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Or wags its tail.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

www.brutalanimalsex.com

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:29 (twenty-one years ago)

www.tenderanimalsex.com

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:30 (twenty-one years ago)

www.bugsbunnyconsentcountdown.com

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:30 (twenty-one years ago)

and demands cunnilRINGRING Excuse me...

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:30 (twenty-one years ago)

If it says "eat me" what do you do? Get the mint sauce out? Call the television company because you have a talking lamb?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't get all the children stuff, Nick. I think it's an interesting philosophical question. We're allowed to kill and eat animals, but no allowed to have sex with them. Why? (I am of course not advocating bestiality in any way, I'm just interested in the philosophical implications of the question.)

― Barry S., Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:31 (twenty-one years ago)

"Yes, Esther, I was just shagging it when it started talking to me. It's quite amazing. No, it won't speak on demand. It needs to orgasm first."

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Transferrance of diseases?

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

"Marinated from within by the juices of the finest English lord."

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, human-to-human STDs haven't stopped people having sex with people.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Disease would probably be less likely than with another person, I'd think. Unless, maybe, you're fucking a chimp or something.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the consent issue doesn't answer anything. Animals can't consent to being killed and eaten, and yet no one's seriously considering making that illegal.

― Barry S., Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

It's illegal and immoral for the exact same reason as incest is; because of the offspring. All morality comes from practicality at the end of the day (well, some of it does). Hundreds of years ago, someone shags a sheep, lamb-boy pops out a few months later, all the villagers think it's a daemon, hence they beat up anyone else who shags a sheep for trying to summon daemons. Innit.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:34 (twenty-one years ago)

This is, of course, somewhat simplified. "God has cursed you with lamb-boy for a son because you shagged that sheep."

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Pictures of lamb-boy please, Mr Carruthers. Possibly with Ned's head.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:36 (twenty-one years ago)

That might have been a good argument hundreds of years ago, Nick, but it's a piss-poor argument now, when we know that there are no offspring involved in bestiality.

― Barry S., Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Lamb-boy is a biological impossibility. Bit like playing NTSC tapes in a PAL recorder. Just cause it fits in doesn't mean you will get anything out...

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Morals need hundreds of years of backing before they become morals. There are plenty of things that seemed resonable hundreds of years ago that wouldn't now but that we still do anyway.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, Nick? Did your parents ever sit down and have the "the birds and the bees can't mate with each other to make bird-bees" conversation?

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Barry, if you really want to, just do it.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

massive xpost by the way, disregard that.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Dan; you've not seen my half-brother, have you?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:39 (twenty-one years ago)

He's called 'Flossy'.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:39 (twenty-one years ago)

He's not that bee-boy, is he?

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:40 (twenty-one years ago)

No; bee-boy is my cousin. They do things differently in Yorkshire.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude! But how cool would the world be if two creatures could always reproduce regardless of species!

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I've seen pictures of dog-boy and so forth in the newspapers, innit, ergo must be true.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Dan; you say that, but it's a bitch buying clothes for them.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

That half-zebra/half-horse thing to thread, innit. And those weird dogs where dad's a Corgi and Mum's a Doberman.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:43 (twenty-one years ago)

So the bitch has the baby and then you send her out shopping for clothes????

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Of course! She's given birth to lamb-boy = the newspapers pay her loads of mopney for clothes = she can go and spend it on lamb-grows.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Loads of money for clothes? Loads of money for pictures.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, everyone's decided to take my thread as a joke, and fair enough, but I think it's an interesting philosophical point - all western countries have laws against bestiality but I can see no good argument from first principles as to why it should be illegal. If it's a question of cruelty to animals, as posited above by Tuomas, then laws against cruelty to animals should cover those cases where bestiality constitutes cruelty, without the need for a further specific law.

Another similar and more topical philosophical question: should cannibalism among consenting adults be legal?

― Barry S., Wednesday, 7 January 2004 11:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I was sure there was a serious thread on this in the olden days, but cannot find it. I cannot see any obvious reasons why bestiality should be illegal, cruelty to animal laws being satisfied, and other decency laws (most animals live in the open air after all. (and even those I find a bit shaky).

I think however consent issues can often be shaky when one party is more keen on eating you than you being eaten. Any minute now we should get someone suggesting the vegetarian cannible too.

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 12:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never really thought about the bestiality issue before, but I think I agree that there's no reason for it to be illegal. It remains illegal because there's no real constituency advocating bestiality (as opposed to homosexuality, where most countries have legalised it over the past 40 years or so).

As for consenting cannibalism, that strikes me as a pretty complicated issue. If you're insane, then consent issues no longer apply. It could be argued that no sane person could consent to being eaten, but perhaps that's a circular argument. Another argument might be that one shouldn't be allowed to be manipulated into doing something that is essentially against your best interests - not an entirely convincing argument either, because you then have to define what "best interests" are and you are once again in danger of circular arguments. As for the "eater", most countries outlaw euthanasia and therefore it's illegal to help someone to die, even if they're consenting. It's all a bit similar to that case a few years back when some guys were found guilty of causing bodily harm for willingly nailing each other's dicks to the floor, or some such thing. They took their case to the European Court and had their sentence annulled, I think.

― Jonathan Z., Wednesday, 7 January 2004 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway, how do you know it wasn't a lamb GIRL?

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

If bestiality is hurting an animal, it's wrong just like it's wrong to hurt animals while breeding them for meat/fur/eggs/milk/whatever. But there are double standards here, the law doesn't follow a clear moral code. If you'd treat your pet the same way farm animals are treated, you'd get sued for cruelty to animals; there are different standards for pets and production animals. Bestiality is also illegal, even though it would probably hurt an animal a lot less than keeping it constrained in a tiny for it's whole life. It all boils down to what people are used to: we (or you, since I'm a vegan) are used to eating animal products. We are used to loving our pets. We are not used to shagging sheep. The law isn't consistent in all it's aspects, and neither are our moral codes.

But, if someone could really prove some animals enjoy sex with humans, and there'd be no risk of diseases, I'd see nothing wrong with bestiality.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Because it had a willy, Madchen.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

We are not used to shagging sheep.
Speak for yourself; I'm from the Westcountry.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 13:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Next up on Fear Factor Joe Rogan fucks the shit out of an Ostrich.

― Chris V (Chris V), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Draft-dodging is illegal, too, but sometimes you have to take the higher ground. As long as you have genuine feelings for the animal (and respect is key), then follow your bliss.

Wasn't there an English fellow spotted loving a goat by a trainload of commuters awhile back, who was arrested? I thought Fortean Times made mention of it.

― andy, Wednesday, 7 January 2004 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

why is saying its disgusting not a valid argument?

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not a valid reason for creating a law; if it were universally disgusting no one would be doing it, and the law would be unnecessary; and if it's not unversally disgusting, then why should you prevent the people who find it not disgusting from indulging, should they choose to?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

If you want to fuck a sheep, fuck a sheep - just make sure you disclose that fact to anyone else you want to sleep with.

― luna (luna.c), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

luna OTM²

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

"Yeah, and this one time, at band camp, I stuck a sheep in my pussy."

"Is that a recipe?"

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

This hillbilly man I know once gave me goatfucking directions. He says "the trick is, you gotta get 'em so they facing a cliff or drop-off, their instank whatchamcallits make 'em back up, then you push 'em a little closer to the edge, then they back up on ya, ya push 'em, they back up on ya, push 'em, back up on ya. Just like that." He concluded by saying "oh yeah, the best part about fucking a duck is when their little feet paddle your balls".

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

hang on, hang on, lemme find a screenshot of Gene Wilder in that Woody Allen movie...

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

ding ding ding

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

people are compelled to do things they find disgusting.

no one thinks raping children is right, so why do we need a law against it? (extreme example i know)

any given community can make a law about any thing they want. universal principles have really nothing to do with law.
it's a as valid a reason for creating a law as any other reason.

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it worse to rape a child or an animal?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

a child, obviously. Good grief!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

People should have the freedom to do what they want under the condition that they are not restricting someone else's rights to do what they want. In this case that someone would be an animal. As long as the animal is happy there should be nothing wrong with it and yes, if cannibalism is consentual there should be no law against it

― Cordelia (Cordelia), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Consenual cannibalism = really savage 69ing?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 21:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok; who is more disturbed - someone who rapes a child or someone who rapes an animal?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 21:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you'd have to make that judgement on a case-by-case basis. (assuming such a judgement can even be made)

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

It really depends on what orifice they choose.

― may pang (maypang), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 21:55 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe im confusing "law" with something else. i reserve the right to think bestiality is fucking gross and to think badly of those who practice it. maybe they shouldnt be penalized by the law, but any community would ostracize them.

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 21:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Ostriches are just what they want, Ryan!

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 21:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Should ILX be deleted? If so, why?

― Allyzay, Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

SWK9 age 3 (21 human years) seeks clandestine leg humping and will gnaw your bone in return. Call me by whistling on one of those whistles people can't hear.

― spot, Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Any act of penetrative bestialism should be considered a capital offense.

― Aaron A., Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

If you guys really want to debate this and ask questions like, "we're allowed to kill them and eat them so why not have sex with them?" then you're even fucking sadder than I thought.

― C-Man (C-Man), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I had a really stuck-up history teacher in high school. He had a very boring, clinical manner of teaching. One day he's talking about Ganghis Khan when out of nowhere, he takes me and a couple other students aside and whispers in a shocked tone- "Do you know how the Mongol hordes crossed deserts? By drinking Horse Piss!"

― sucka (sucka), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

why don't you explain your opinions FOR ONCE c-man? we need more information. is everyone else equally sad or is it a sliding scale, at which you are perched on top?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

it is gross, you know

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Scientific query: isn't there a biological principle where members of the same ~~king philip came over from great spain~~ Order can sometimes create a sterile hybrid?

― Leee Smith (Leee), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

it strikes me as an interesting topic - particularly the 'perversity' of finding it more difficult than one may expect to rationalise the illegality of bestiality without basing your argument solely on 'not what God intended, according to ancient interpretation' or 'look it's just not right okay' - hence the interest. surely it's a disgusting, disturbing practice but when it comes to the why and wherefore with regards to the ways animals are abused by humans in other ways i'm at a bit of a loss. earlier i was almost going to suggest that 'whatever the vast majority of people are genuinely and passionately opposed to (on a nation by nation ratio) is what should be illegal' but i'm sure there are huge problems with that too.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

But the Bible teaches us that man is to have rule and dominion over the natural kingdom. Surely a little donkey reaming now and again is forgiveable in God's eye, no?

― may pang (maypang), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Order, in my prev post, should be Family.

If you hump a guynimal, does that make you gay?

― Leee Smith (Leee), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

no one thinks raping children is right

There's a difference between "wrong" and "disgusting". Coca-Cola is disgusting; rape is wrong.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

this is not twee.

― kephm, Thursday, 8 January 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

But the Bible teaches us that man is to have rule and dominion over the natural kingdom. Surely a little donkey reaming now and again is forgiveable in God's eye, no?

Has anyone tried this logic on people who cite Leviticus against homosexuality?

― j.lu (j.lu), Thursday, 8 January 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

i like Coca-Cola and am glad it is legal, although i may take that back 20 years from now when my teeth fall out and i am sterile. i just hope medical science advances to the point where that stuff doesn't matter (or cost) that much anymore by then.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 8 January 2004 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Amen.

― luna (luna.c), Thursday, 8 January 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know if it makes any difference, but I enjoy bestiality, my dream is to fuck a wild Bear in the ass, all of my previous partners have been Horses, I'm vegetarian and I think the Meat industry is a much greater crime against nature. Bestiality should only be illegal for animal abuser people who tie animals up for sex and don't give them a carrot after. Coke is disgusting, Pepsi is way better.

― cokesucks, Thursday, 8 January 2004 06:26 (twenty-one years ago)

oh it makes a difference alright

― Smokey (Oops), Thursday, 8 January 2004 06:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Bestiality should only be illegal for animal abuser people who tie animals up for sex and don't give them a carrot after! Yes!!! HAHAHA

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 8 January 2004 07:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll give you a carrot, pal ... a DICK CARROT

HAHAHA that.

― dean gulberry (deangulberry), Thursday, 8 January 2004 07:28 (twenty-one years ago)

???

Have you been reading the thread? This Cokesucks person said it two posts up.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 8 January 2004 08:06 (twenty-one years ago)

no one thinks raping children is right, so why do we need a law against it? (extreme example i know)

Raping, maybe, but there are people who think having sex with children (not necessarily trough penetration) isn't wrong, as long as the child doesn't get physically hurt. I'm not saying I support this view, but making universal claims such as the above is a bit presumptuous. Having sex with children, marrying children - these things aren't so uncommon throughout the history and in different cultures. Also, the definition of who's actually "a child" has varied greatly.

Although this was meant to be a joke, the point made is actually right. Or could someone (Calum?) tell me why a relatively short act of copulation, which doesn't necessarily even hurt the animal, would be more wrong than a lifetime of suffering, which is the fate of production animals?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 8 January 2004 09:14 (twenty-one years ago)

There actually isn't a properly founded argument for bestiality being illegal then, is there? By this thinking you could also justify pa3d0ph1l1a, if the child 'consents', or any activity if someone consents. Who's a libertarian?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 10:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it 'against nature'? How so? Does instinct say it is? And if it does, is instinct inherrant or is it culturally learnt?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 10:56 (twenty-one years ago)

So, what about necrophillia? You can't really hurt a corpse. That said what about a dead animal? Should that be illegal?

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Exactly. The only real reason these things are illegal is because we think they're gross and/or disrespectful / unnatural, yet the foundation of these arguments don't stand up. So let's all go out and get some sweet duck lovin'.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:10 (twenty-one years ago)

inanimate objects tho, that's the line

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Empty can o' beans full o' chopped liver?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm off to the Mara to get me some dead elephant tusk hole lovin'

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

It just struck me that the empty can o' beans full o' chopped liver is both bestial, necrophiliac, and whatever the inanimate-object-fucking word is.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:19 (twenty-one years ago)

How about coprophilia?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:20 (twenty-one years ago)

... bag o' shite.

― Paul Calf (afarrell), Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:21 (twenty-one years ago)

It's also better if you stick the liver in the microwave on defrost for a bit.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

A refugee from ***** (don't want to spread malicious stereotypes) passed on this tip once, "Decapitate the chicken when you're fucking it and hold it really tight when its squirming, it's great! Or so I've been told. They do it in my village but I haven't."

― dave q, Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:31 (twenty-one years ago)

i think morality breaks down whenever you try and break it down to black and white terms. i mean, you may say it must be better to shag a cow than to kill and eat it, in some ways maybe it is. But who knows what a cow would think - if cows have any kind of emotion it'd probably be scarred for life - imagine you walk into a field and a cow jumps on you and fuck you up the arse. You'd be traumatised, the cow might even think you loved it.

On the same token, I probably don't like to be eaten, so I shouldn't eat animals, cos they have a right to live - but if you want to take things to a stupid fundamental level why don't plants have a right to live??? we should all eat sand and die of malnutrition.

If laws shouldn't be imposed purely based on the thought of a majority, then there shouldn't be any laws at all. fuck the law. Let's all take crack and shag sheep all day.

Personally I find girls a lot more attractive than sheep.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it perhaps something to do with the perception that what we procreate with somehow determines what or who we are? Thus if you have sex with an animal you are in some way becoming less than human?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

We have rules that help us progress as a society towards our final goal of creating a rocket so large it can destroy the sun, cow fucking is "off message" as regards this goal.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Thursday, 8 January 2004 11:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Damn right.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

"Yeah that ostrich...I fucked her."
http://www.tvtome.com/images/people/3/1/64-2619.jpg

― Chris V (Chris V), Thursday, 8 January 2004 12:07 (twenty-one years ago)

"Do the Ostrich" - Lou Reed, takes on a new significance...

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 8 January 2004 12:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Man: I'm in love with a horse!

Doctor: Is it a male or female horse?

Man: A female horse obviously! What do think I am? Queer?

In the course of this joke being written, I wanted to know if there was a generic term for laydee horses (Princess Anne! Boom Boom etc). Typing 'female horse' into google is not very work safe.

― Bernie Winters (daveb), Thursday, 8 January 2004 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Where does the melon thing come in?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 12:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Equally what about dogs that fuck you leg. Where is consent there ah?

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 8 January 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I always say 'yes'.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

horsess

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 8 January 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

"In the course of this joke being written, I wanted to know if there was a generic term for laydee horses (Princess Anne! Boom Boom etc). Typing 'female horse' into google is not very work safe"

Mare or Filly depending on age, and I should know I've fucked a few.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Thursday, 8 January 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Aythangyew!

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 8 January 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

>In the course of this joke being written, I wanted to know if there
> was a generic term for laydee horses

mare.

Animals can "enjoy" sex with humans. Obviously in male animal/female human couplings, the male animal has to be enjoying what is happening
for anything to happen at all. The majority of beast porn is male dog on woman, and most of it focuses on the degredation of the woman.

As can be expected, there are "zoophile" groups on the internet who want to normalize bestiality. These "zoophiles" actually "love" their animals, on an emotional as well as physical levels. Those goddamn furries fit into all this somehow, too.

― fletrejet, Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.dolphinsex.org/

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Fucking hell.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

That actually is the most insane thing I've ever seen.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Particularly the bit about them having prehensile, s-shaped cocks that are a foot long.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

haha no way am i clicking on that.

here is the link which taught me NEVER to click on 'omg check this out!!1!' links on mail lists:

DO NOT VIEW AT WORK!!!

www.zoofur.com/animalp.html

more specifically:

www.zoofur.com/orca.html

if the site still exists, it's a company that sells, ahem '1:1 scale models' er....

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

But there's a $10 discount this month on the orca-dildo!

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)

haha goddamn, where's my credit card?? plus, where's the address of the local a&e for after it arrives??

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

There is one called 'thor' (just swap 'orca' for 'thor' in the url) which is properly terrifying. It must be two foot long.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

All told, an interesting thread. Thoughtful contributions from all and a blethering intercjection by that bloke out of the Shamen, or whoever he is. Vintage Stuff. I give it a 6.5.

Jarl, get some fucking work done.

― Matt (Matt), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

They sell clocks. With pictures of animals in silhouette. With boners.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

is the boner, like, the second hand of the clock, so it sweeps round the clock face? (nb, i'm not looking. I saw that site once, and that was enough!!)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Sadly no.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

jesus, i can't believe i clicked that dolphin sex thing. i thought it was gonna be some sort of joke!

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

"a blethering intercjection by that bloke out of the Shamen, or whoever he is." haha, that one took a while to sink it.
This is actually teh funney thread, mainly due to mr n southall. Who would have guessed it?

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

My jokes about shagging animals are always well received.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

who wd have guessed it b/c of the thread subj, not b/c of mr southall that shd be.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 8 January 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Q: What do you call a hillbilly farmer who owns cows and sheep?
A: Bisexual.

― sucka (sucka), Thursday, 8 January 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

The Rolling Stones: Hey You! Get off of my cloud!

The Scottish: Hey Macloud! Get off of my ewe!

― may pang (maypang), Thursday, 8 January 2004 22:24 (twenty-one years ago)

imagine you walk into a field and a cow jumps on you and fuck you up the arse. You'd be traumatised, the cow might even think you loved it.

NO SLEEP FOR DAN TONIGHT.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 8 January 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

For god sakes don't go to that field, Dan!

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 8 January 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I keep looking at that and thinking, "Ah, that's what 'Jeepers Creepers 2' was really about..."

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 8 January 2004 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Cow-tipping has a really new menaing now.

"That was really good, Ermintrude. Here's a dollar."

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 January 2004 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

prefer the older bovine do you?

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 9 January 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

seven months pass...

Revive.

There actually is no answer to this question (the question being "why is morality moral?") because you can always pick further and further, adding caveat on caveat ("what if I keep the dolphin comfotable, what if the chicken orgasms, what if the toddler suffers no ill-effects, what if myself and my sister have no offspring???" etcetera), or is there? It strikes me that certain things simply are wrong, yet there has to be a reason otherwise it's just rigmarole and dogma (mmm, dogs...) - we can't simply have no-questions-asked C-Man reactions to everything, can we, where's the radical social moral constructivism in that, eh?

So, my question to ILX is -

WHY ARE BAD THINGS BAD IF THEY APPEAR TO HARM NO ONE?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 9 August 2004 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe it just comes down to whether you personally would be comfortable knowing there was a person in your neighbourhood that likes to fuck animals or even consenting under 16s. if you're not then it's 'bad' - is that all it can/need be?

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 9 August 2004 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it is, but we're always taught as youngsters that morality is much less pragmatic and solipsistic than that, which causes problems. I mean, yes, I can see that some people wouldn't have a problem with, say, a 17 year old boy shagging a 15 year old girl (and I almost certainly know people who did this) or such, but the lines become very hazy and indistinct and then areas where people can get away with all sorts of negative things can occur.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 9 August 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

zoonoses? (diseases that can be passed from animals to humans). Would seem to be a good enough reason to avoid bestiality to me. There must be some sexually transmitted zoonoses.

― MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 9 August 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

No doubt, but who will do the research to find out? ("zoonoses", what a great word!)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 9 August 2004 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

(+ good reason to avoid bestiality surely = "that shaggy alsatian looks very nice and stuff, BUT NOT IN THAT WAY!!")

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 9 August 2004 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

man's best friend with benefits.

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 9 August 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

: (((

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 9 August 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

lol @ red pandas

― Red Panda Sanskrit (ex machina), Monday, 9 August 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Bestiality laws are simply leftovers from another age. I can see no good reason for bestiality to be illegal per se. On the occasions that it constitutes cruelty to animals, then it should be prosecuted as such. But I don't see that bestiality in itself constitutes cruelty to animals. Personally, I find the idea disgusting. Then again, there are plenty of sexual acts that I personally find disgusting, but I wouldn't wish to criminalise them unless someone is getting hurt.

― hmmm..., Monday, 9 August 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

how can an animal give consent any more than a mentally handicapped person?

― Red Panda Sanskrit (ex machina), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

should the law reflect relatedness of the species involved? Should it be ok to have sex with a chimp, slightly dodgy to go with an orang-utan and a complete no-no to roger a rabbit?

― MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Sagan had a playful side as well. He provoked his Viking colleagues into using valuable payload space for a camera by pointing out that their microbial experiments might miss larger life forms, like Martian polar bears. When he researched animal intelligence, he once had to fend off sexual advances from the dolphin that played TV’s "Flipper." He claimed to have had many of his most creative thoughts while high; Davidson provides excerpts from Sagan's "pot diaries."

― Red Panda Sanskrit (ex machina), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

"how can an animal give consent any more than a mentally handicapped person?"

How can an animal give consent to being killed and eaten? I don't think this is a consent issue.

― hmmm..., Monday, 9 August 2004 13:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"Ladies and gentlmen of the company, I'm just a caveman."

"I fell on some ice and later got thawed out by some of your scientists."

"Your world frightens and confuses me! Sometimes the odd noises from these metal boxes scares me and makes me want to run back to my cave. Sometimes when I look up at the ceiling I see these strange tubes that light up at the flick of a wall stick, I wonder, did demons catch light from the sun and put it there? I don't know! My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts."

― Red Panda Sanskrit (ex machina), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

"how can an animal give consent any more than a mentally handicapped person?"

http://www.yahoo.com/_ylh=X3oDMTB1M2EzYWFoBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEdGVzdAMwBHRtcGwDaWUtYmV0YQ--/s/206207

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

For Tuomas. And Henry. And Ken C.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 5 December 2005 15:19 (twenty years ago)

for mankind. and sheep.

― latebloomer: The Corridor (Yes, The Corridor) (latebloomer), Monday, 5 December 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

All those sheep have to go underground and prostitute themselves in dire circumstances, of course it should be legal!

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 5 December 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

If a horse doesn't want to be bummed, it'll walk away. There's all the consent you need.

And you could never call it 'abuse' to give a donkey a blow job.

― Mestema (davidcorp), Monday, 5 December 2005 17:37 (twenty years ago)

Because it's in most cases cruelty towards animals, I think.

― Dan (ROFFLES) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 5 December 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

eleven months pass...

Bumpity.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 20 November 2006 11:21 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know if it makes any difference, but I enjoy bestiality, my dream is to fuck a wild Bear in the ass, all of my previous partners have been Horses, I'm vegetarian and I think the Meat industry is a much greater crime against nature. Bestiality should only be illegal for animal abuser people who tie animals up for sex and don't give them a carrot after. Coke is disgusting, Pepsi is way better.

-- cokesucks (pepsirules@pepsi

"and don't give them a carrot after".

^^^ the most wtf thing ever posted to ILX, and that's saying something.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 20 November 2006 11:26 (nineteen years ago)

i like how you focus on that and not 'my dream is to fuck a wild Bear in the ass' (par for the ilx course i suppose)

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 11:45 (nineteen years ago)

It's the combination of the 2:

"i want to fuck a wild bear up the ass" = you are a mentalist

"it's not ok if you don't give them a carrot afterwards" = ......??>>?CXcC>C>wtfwtfwtf

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 20 November 2006 11:52 (nineteen years ago)

Do bears eat carrots anyway?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 20 November 2006 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe "cokesucks" has found out by now.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 20 November 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

If I was a wild Bear, I'd eat a carrot for a shag.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 20 November 2006 13:27 (nineteen years ago)

Midge Ure should've used that line.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 13:31 (nineteen years ago)

Er, I think cokesucks was someone satirizing the previous discussion...

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 20 November 2006 13:34 (nineteen years ago)

haha i missed this before! i wonder why this thread was revived on 5th December last year in 1/3 of my honour!

have you guys met my newborn son?

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 20 November 2006 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

Because it's in most cases cruelty towards animals, I think.

Meat packing industry. We're talking about the same thing: meat packing animals.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:28 (nineteen years ago)

Nick was quite active on this thread.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:27 (nineteen years ago)

six years pass...

http://gawker.com/man-gets-15-year-jail-sentence-for-having-sex-with-his-480082925

― buzza, Thursday, 25 April 2013 05:13 (twelve years ago)

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=155596704501608&id=131129733614972

― sleepingbag, Thursday, 25 April 2013 05:32 (twelve years ago)

i feel like i wouldn't call the police in this situation. quick nod, drop the keys on the coffee table and peace.

― dylannn, Thursday, 25 April 2013 07:48 (twelve years ago)

up all night to get ducky

― we're up all night to get picky (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 25 April 2013 07:52 (twelve years ago)

so you get more years in prison for murdering a dog than you do for having sex with it. and you wonder why we are a country in debt.

― frogbs, Thursday, 25 April 2013 12:04 (twelve years ago)

Animals, can't fuck them, can kill them.

Other people, the other way around.

Makes yer fink, dunnit?

― Mark G, Thursday, 25 April 2013 13:24 (twelve years ago)

john, i'm only dogfucking

― his army of super young artists produce, (contenderizer), Thursday, 25 April 2013 13:32 (twelve years ago)

Short answer to title question: it's a societal taboo and every society gets to have and enforce its quota of taboos**. Rationality is not always a better guide to these matters than simply following established norms, because reasoning must proceed from a set of axioms and it cannot retroactively reason its axioms into existence.

**NB: I think the quota is a few hundred.

― Aimless, Thursday, 25 April 2013 18:14 (twelve years ago)

three months pass...

http://www.objectum-sexuality.org/

Intimacy, Sex, and OS.
As a matter of course, this is the topic that rouses the most curiosity. The issue of sex with objects stirs a certain inquisitiveness in people that often leads to censure. And to ask whether we do "it" is like asking whether all couples in love are intimate. Most often the answer is yes but in some cases, as with any loving relationship, sex is not always present for whatever personal reason.
It should be noted that the term sexuality in OS does NOT imply the physical act of sex with an object just as it doesn't for other orientations. The term sexuality coupled with hetero, homo, or objectum implies the inclination towards such.
Also the definition of sex comes into question which is why we often steer away from this term. We use sensuality or intimacy to describe physically related expressions of love as this offers a broader definition considering our partners are not human and cannot be generalized. However, intimacy is very broad and what may be sensual for some may not be so for others.
What is the difference between OS intimacy and masturbation?
Clearly one of the most irritating questions we entertain when a person gets a mental image of us in “the act” with an object. Naturally, it would seem there is no difference because the question is being posed by one who does not love the object. OS intimacy is not instrumental manipulation to self pleasure. In the case of a person utilizing some object in this manner, the object is none other than a means to an end. To an OS person, our intimate focus is on the object we love.
Is OS a fetish?
No, objectum-sexuality is not a fetish. While a fetishist must have their desired object present as a catalyst to achieve sexual gratification, the love for our object is not based on a habitual psychosexual response. It is the object that captivates us on many more levels besides sexual arousal. Fetishists do not see the object as animate as we do and therefore do not commence to develop a loving relationship with the object.

― j., Sunday, 18 August 2013 03:42 (twelve years ago)

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID29593/images/david_face2.jpg

― cardamon, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:33 (twelve years ago)

Oh, this is a thing. There's a lady who has this? Is into this? who was in love with the Berlin Wall but then fell in love with the Eiffel Tower and married it. I shit you not.

Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erika_Eiffel

There's also some lady in love with a fence and a dude in love with his cars. He fucks the cars too.

Yeah, I don't know either, man.

― Airwrecka Bliptrap Blapmantis (ENBB), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:36 (twelve years ago)

I try to be open-minded and all about stuff but there are just some things I do not get.

― Airwrecka Bliptrap Blapmantis (ENBB), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:37 (twelve years ago)

I didn't know she'd dumped the Berlin Wall! She used to be called Eija Ritter Berliner-Mauer

― cardamon, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:37 (twelve years ago)

Or is that someone else

― cardamon, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:37 (twelve years ago)

Objectum-sexuals

― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:38 (twelve years ago)

In defense of OS: a) don't loads of people get together to say how beautiful Michelangelo's David is and isn't at least some of that sexual b) at least an object can't cheat on you

― cardamon, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:38 (twelve years ago)

I think that's someone else!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2035996/Woman-married-to-Berlin-Wall-for-29-years.html

Oh my. I wonder if she and Erika Eiffel ever had beef.

― Airwrecka Bliptrap Blapmantis (ENBB), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:39 (twelve years ago)

Oh man - I can't believe I missed that dedicated thread. lol.

― Airwrecka Bliptrap Blapmantis (ENBB), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:41 (twelve years ago)

I can't hate Erika Eiffel for living her dream. also she has a porn star name.

― I tweeted too much and I am in jail. (crüt), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:45 (twelve years ago)

I love that song the Pixies did about her

― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:46 (twelve years ago)

i shouldn't have given up faith so easily that there would be a thread already.

― j., Monday, 19 August 2013 17:21 (twelve years ago)

a dude in love with his cars. He fucks the cars too

ask sissymanwhore (NSFW)

― transmisogyny express (DJ Mencap), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:23 (twelve years ago)

All grist for future F Plus podcasts

― Your Own Personal El Guapo (kingfish), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:40 (twelve years ago)

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