On The Homeless

xp orbit is faster.

You talking about LaRouche supporters?

I was asking how persistent SF homeless are compared to Seattle homeless.

I've gotten used to it here in Seattle.. granted, I've never seen homeless people shit on the sidewalk here (or at least seen the results, since the city does a pretty decent job of cleaning up the streets).. and as you said, I do give out change when it just feels right.

But I swear, many of the younger, more relatively well off guys who ask for change DON'T KNOW WHEN TO FUCKING STOP. And the more persistent they are, the more scratchy and whiney they sound. (Think "Drive Thru Burger Boy" in the Simpsons)

I was walking to meet up with Matos for dinner one night and this one dude followed me for an entire block, asked me for dollar bills three times. I said "No" very bruskly, louder each time.

One the way back, the same guy accompanies Matos and I and asks both of us three times again if we had money. "Use a different block, dude."

So, in the Persistence In Homelessness awards, Seattle takes the prize.

So, in the Persistence By The Homeless awards, Seattle takes the prize.

Centuries of white guilt, I guess, coming home to roost.

TWO DOLLARS!

Was that ... The Smell?

There's one guy at the Ralph's on Sunset I always see who has apparently been trying to gather money to go to Redondo Beach for about a year now.

The worst thing I've ever seen was when I was in the Valley and at a stoplight in front of me was a Jaguar. There was a guy on the median holding a sign, asking for money. The driver of the Jaguar held out some change and as the guy approached, he tossed the change out into the street and drove off, laughing, as the homeless guy scrambled for the change. I've never wanted to run someone off the road so badly.

(xpost)

San Francisco/Tenerloin/Market St: Fucking pandemic, out of control, but these are the real deal - crazy, drug addicted street people. Market St is their Mecca.

Berkeley: Annoying psychedelic relics with funny signs like "Spare Change for Weed?" Haight St. is like this, too.

Oakland: Mind-numbing poverty, but pandhandlers are often polite (usually) and quite deferential - lots of "Excuse me, sir, can I trouble you for a moment of your time?" etc.

Santa Cruz: The fucking worst! Dread-head stoner Crass punks with pitbulls and face tattoos that make comments - "Sorry I don't fucking shop at the Gap, bro!" There should be a camp somewhere... round 'em up!

I've seen it! It's called "bedsheets and blankets."

If people are too persistent, I degenerate quickly from "no" to "F*ck Off". I realize the homeless are people too and often not treated with dignity, but I just don't care anymore. To all the non-aggressive homeless out there, too bad there are so many assholes that ruin it for you.

That's worse than money. The money I can see because that's like the gateway to everything else ... but the cigarettes. Ugh. I usually will give out like 1 a day to a random person if I'm feeling generous but it's likefuck, cigarettes cost a lot of money, you know? Because you see me smoking are we like friends or something? I saw you eating a sandwich but didn't ask you for a bite. I also don't say sorry in this situation either, but rather "no thanks" and is in "no thanks I don't want to pay for your smoking addiction dick."

OTOH, i have rights too. and i DON'T like being threatened or hustled by folks.

Ah, the anguish...

sometimes i do worry about her.

O.k.

Someone asks you for change. You say no. You forget about it. Why harbour all the rage? Is it because you have middle-class guilt or something?

The only time I gave a large sum away was when I did ectasy, MDMA an coke at a party when I was 17. I was walking through the *insert name of big city* at five in the morning. A homeless dude asked me for money. I gave him £50.00. He kissed my hand. I felt his teeth mush against my skin. I was a bit. Oh. Traumatised. Like WTF? Do you think you have POWER because you can gift someone with a bit of cash? Not accusing just a'wonderin'...

The Covent Garden end of Shaftesbury Avenue is full of drunkies and junkies; there's a bit of a needle park behind the cinema. People constantly beg off passers-by and once this really sketchy girl got Ed to give her three pounds 'to get home' and then came into the bar where we were having drinks and actually canvassed him again.

I'm not happy when I see women using their kids as props during fundraising initiatives in tube stations or shoving a note about how shit things are in Bulgaria into the faces of commuters, but that's nothing on the legless vets that used to canvass on trains in NYC. When people ask me for change I'm likely to say 'sorry, I'm skint' whether or not it's the truth, and at least in London that seems to be a reasonable excuse. When I lived in NYC I got into the habit of leaving cheap restaurants with a 'doggy bag' and giving this to the first homeless person I saw.

i mean, if they're supposed to be so wise then how come they ended up HOMELESS??

Jimmy, I think it depends on how often you are asked for money and the manner in which you are asked. Where I live, you cannot avoid being hit up around 10-15 times every day, with some of the panhandlers wheedling and some subtly menacing. Also, it's not so simple as saying "no" and moving on; frequently, you will be followed and harassed or harangued. In fact, the other day I did give a guy some change just because it was below zero outside and he proceeded to yell at me as I walked away because I wasn't sufficiently polite when I gave him the money. If it were a simple case of "can I have some change", "No", "all right then", I don't think this thread would even exist.

this "you MUST have rage b/c of middle-class guilt" is the attitude of someone who lives in suburbs or north bumblefuck (where, like, they don't have homeless people and if any showed up the cops would beat the shit outta them).

Everybody knows that Berkeley Amoeba is the best, anyway. Plus there is the guy that sells jokes just outside. He told me that they would "guarantee [me] pussy".

If you have nothing to do at six in the morning, sleep.

lol the other day a dude asked me for 90p so i looked in my wallet and the lowest substantial denomination i had was a £5 note, so i was floundering when he said 'give me that and i'll give you £2 because i need £3 to eat' so i saw he already had just over £2 in his hand and stupidly didn't say 'ok give me everything you have and i'll give you this', i gave him the note and he slipped me 50p and i was all 'OI you said £2' and he said 'no i said £1!' and then gave me 50p more so i guess i got some money back off a beggar but i certainly didn't plan to give him £4, he must have thought it was his lucky day to have found mugglesworth himself on the pavement outside liverpool street station

anyway if i am less than generous with the homeless for a week or two this is why

you broke the first rule of giving away money on the street

you broke the only rule of giving away money on the street. Which is giving away money on the street.

lol missed out a "not" there

that isn't even in the top 5. rule 1 is don't take out your wallet duh

you saying i should keep 50p coins in a separate pocket and give one away if i'm feeling particularly generous

No just don't give anything is what everyone's saying

including me

if you are someone who likes giving away money, yes. i mostly say no but if someone asks at a bus stop or something i can just go in my pocket. xpost

once in a while is not that bad who cares

it's just that the tipping thread brought this back to the forefront of my mind - maybe i should be harder about these folks - also i only give if i'm alone, in groups it's way easier to say no

how is it hard to say no when you are alone?

if there is sorrow in their eyes and they are following you

yeah it's best not to reward followers imo. maybe you should have a blanket no giving money rule i guess

ok, most of the homeless people I meet are stationary

on the mean streets of london they have a tendency to be mobile and persistent

lolling picturing this, charles dickens like

i once bought a big issue salesman a vanilla custard bun from the supermarket instead of giving him money and he told me he had already eaten but ate it anyway - he hadn't even approached me and he had a lot of big issues left so i felt sorry for him

they can be surprisingly dickensian yes

i dont get accosted by panhandlers very often but i try to give change when i have some--its one of the five pillars fyi

One day I was taking some canned goods over to a friend who had a canned food drive going at work. A homeless guy was sitting on the curb and asked me for some money. I was poor at the time, but I had the canned food, so I go "do you want some soup"? He said "yes" and pulled out a can opener, popped off the top of a can of soup, and drank it.

So maybe Louis you should carry around a can of soup, because that way, if the beggar's really hungry, he'll take you up on your charity, and if he just wants money for drugs, he won't. Plus it's better than carrying around an extra sandwich or something because it won't go bad if you don't see any homeless.

it'd have to be a can of gazpacho - i'd feel nauseous at the sight of someone drinking raw soup that's meant to be heated

Last time I stopped and fumbled w/my wallet on hearing the magic words "some change, mate" from some hunched dreadlocked guy with arm in plaster and scraggy dog, the guy said "no, I was offering YOU some change, it is my conceptual art project to make people think about how lucky we are here in the West" etc etc

anyway I mainly stopped because guy was reading a battered 70s sci-fi paperback

chatted until my bus came, A+ nutter, would give 50p again

^^^can you loan us some of your homeless folk plz

regarding kkvsg's soup idea, in Oxford there is a homeless shelter which costs something like 2 pounds a night, and a charity from which you can buy tickets for the shelter and hand them out instead of change, which I have considered doing but worry that it looks v. patronising and middle-class and "I don't trust you not to spend my money on drugs so you will have a bit of paper instead", but maybe that is what I am actually thinking, so uh

I quite like giving out change as it makes me feel like a slightly less bad person, but it is less enjoyable when someone gives you the epic sob story of missing the last bus and needing money for the train, and then you see them the next night, and the next. also I am in a permanent state of thinking I am running late

homeless guy hung around reception today for ages today complaining, eventually lost patience and kicked out our laughable security screen. but then i do actually work in a housing office.

on the mean streets of london they have a tendency to be mobile and persistent

― your favorite toy dinosaur ruined my asshole (acoleuthic), Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:46 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

idk, rly?

i think they have you down as a mark. you must give something off.

They saw him tipping the barstaff.

maybe they have a can of cold soup someone gave them earlier and they hope the hot air will heat it for them.

"I don't trust you not to spend my money on drugs so you will have a bit of paper instead"

I don't really have your class issues or compunction thereabout, so if someone says they're really hungry and I'm feeling charitable but suspicious, I've been known to buy them something from the dollar menu at a fast food restaurant.

damnnnnnn estela

:o

:O

:O=333

photo finish in a chicken leg race? i give up tbh.

thx for the new username

oy, spare a poppage?

yeah srsly lj, just start peppering your conversations with the word fuckwant and pretty soon the homeless dudes will be eying you nervously and trying to give you money

cudja spare us some fuckwant, please, i need some meatus for the night

no i was thinking more like "oh well i dont have any small change all i have is FUCKWANT and if you just give a second wont take more than a POPPAGE FUCKWANT..." by which point they will have almost certainly run off

once, sitting in a quite empty train station, I had a homeless gent ask me for money and, when I said no, threaten to stub out his cigarette in my face. It certainly did win me over and I think I gave him a whole pound. It's maybe a tactic more homeless people should try.

Generally I don't give out anything because no, I usually don't believe that you're not going to spend it on drugs, class guilt be damned for once. I do give money to Shelter, who I hope will be able to help you and others like you in non-heroiny ways, but on the personal level, no sorry. But I do have particular admiration for the wandering homeless woman who, when I was waiting to meet my girlfriend, asked me for money so she could get a bus, and then when she walked off and happened to run into my travelling girlfriend two minutes away, asked her for money because she needed to feed her child. I appreciate the personal touch.

(gosh typing that all out does make me feel like more than a bit of a heartless scumbag. I'll have to start carrying around spare sandwiches to make up for it all.)

maybe she needed to get the bus home to feed her child? life is a journey towards TRUST y'know

am i the only one who clearly remembers the disgusted look on the homeless man's face in 'twins' when achnold gives him a huge sandwich? that's stuck with me, and i've never offered one food since.

Changing gears:

New Gym For Homeless Also Creates Electricity

Detroit (WWJ) -- Detroit's homeless not only have a place to stay, they now also have a place to stay in shape.

The Green Gym opened at the warehouse of the Cass Community Social Services at 12025 Woodrow Wilson. It is the first gym of its kind specifically for homeless clients.

The lightbulb came on for Reverend Faith Fowler to combine a place where the homeless could work out and be environmentally friendly. The Green Gym uses special stationary bikes that generate electricity from their spinning wheels.

"I read about these bikes made by the green revolution and thought 'what a great idea to put a couple problems together for a solution,'" Fowler said.

Eric Brown took to one of the stationary bikes. The Cass Corridor employee says he hasn't worked out in two years. "It gives people a chance to work out but also produce energy and save energy at the same time," he said.

The specially-equipped bikes hooked to a generator will make electricity redirected to the warehouse. One cyclist over an hour's time can create enough juice to power two laptop computers for an hour.

Along with ten stationary bikes, the Green Gym also features two weight machines, a boxing bag and a treadmill.
Not only is the gym good for the environment, Fowler says it will also be good for the health of her clients who struggle with diabetes and heart disease due to a lack of physical activity.

Funding for the project came from donations made to the nonprofit Cass Community Social Services. The facility will be staffed by volunteers.

BTW, Cleveland has these things all over the place. They also have special yellow "parking meters" in which the money you put in goes to homeless programs.

[img]http://realneo.us/system/files?file=panhandling%20prevention.jpg[img]

Bah.

http://realneo.us/system/files?file=panhandling%20prevention.jpg

how in the fuck has someone managed to dress that up as a kind hearted scheme? genius xp

i mean, that's almost the fucking matrix

Having "Reverend" in front of one's name lets you get away with all kinds of bullshit tbh

we were talking about this tonight re: how quickly we give to far away crisis (eg, Haiti), how reluctant we are to give at home. Q: "Don't I pay taxes for that?" A: Less and less. Increasingly non-governmental org's like foodbanks and shelters, are doing the work gov'ts used to do and we're like "oh those noble food bankers" when really we should be "oh those fucking social spending cutters"

yep, as Merdeyeux says Shelter are a good UK-based charity for supporting the homeless, and this thread has most helpfully reminded me that I never did buy the Shelter-supporting compilation w/Michael Rother, Vibracathedral Orchestra, Four Tet, so that is my quest for the afternoon

Problem solved:

https://medium.com/architecting-a-life/fee8f3ee97a0

1. I will come back tomorrow and give you $100 in cash.
2. I will come back tomorrow and give you three JavaScript books, (beginner-advanced-expert) and a super cheap basic laptop. I will then come an hour early from work each day—when he feels prepared—and teach him to code.

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1673225/can-good-graphic-design-help-the-homeless

wow these are both horrible ideas

i feel like xref with this thread could be in order the most pernicious cliché of our times?

[unsmiling homeless person with hand-made sign]
[smiling homeless person with hand-lettered designer sign]

makes u think

Homeless man who's become a regular around my neighbourhood has a large female greyhound/saluki lurcher named Hoi Polloi.

i'm not trying to shit on individual acts of charity but "can good graphic design help the homeless?" is not the right question to ask imho xp

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sf-threatens-sue-alleged-patient-dumping-20010793

hah just posted the revive link on the "shit that looks like an Onion article" thread

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/802162964.jpg

brilliant

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/trading-places.jpeg

i am filled with hatred rn

"the unjustly homeless"

Once a guy asked me for change and I told him I didn't have any cash with me. He said "that's alright, I accept Mastercard, Visa..."

you're a standup guy, evidently

I really didn't have cash.

time was i was going to do a thread about whether there is a right to housing

this is the case in sweden i think

idk if there is anywhere that fully implements this though, like providing housing or paying rent for anybody even if they aren't in traditional 'in need' groups

Thats the deal in denmark iirc. There should totally be a right to housing as well as healthcare.

idk about denmark, doesn't that denote things like rent controls, social housing provision, security of tenancy etc not just a carte blanche 'here is a house for u'?

so even in the more enlightened european countries there is still a coterie of drug dependents, lumpens etc without homes because they fall within the gaps of social provision

There is a right to housing in ireland

It's just that nobody wants to live there

ha strong zing but, ime, untrue

OK, qualify that, the Irish don't want to live there

Problem solved:

https://medium.com/architecting-a-life/fee8f3ee97a0

1. I will come back tomorrow and give you $100 in cash.
2. I will come back tomorrow and give you three JavaScript books, (beginner-advanced-expert) and a super cheap basic laptop. I will then come an hour early from work each day—when he feels prepared—and teach him to code.
― polyphonic, Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fuck naïve techies and their "simple solutions" to enormously complex social problems. i sometimes meet people like this at parties and it takes great inner strength not to bitchslap them.

also in US at least a huge chunk of the homeless are mentally ill

Homeless guy once asked me to buy him some KFC. I was heading in the opposite direction & was in a hurry but I said I would give him the money for it. He got really offended and said he didn't want money, just something to eat. I was like dude that's cool I believe you but I need to get back to work, you can use money to buy food. He didn't appreciate the life hack I had offered him and took neither it nor the money, just swore at me and walked off.

I mean he would prob have exchanged that chicken for smack anyway

i see the same roster of homeless guys quite regularly in my area. there is one who asks for a quid "for the doner kebab fund" and it works pretty well on people who haven't heard it before, he's good humoured or whatever. there's another guy who asks really rapidly if you have any money and says "thanks anyway" and moves on, i figure his technique is based on covering more miles and asking more people.

then there's this one guy who has a bloody arm always, it's v weird, dunno if he self-harms, and he says he's crashed his motorbike and needs money to get to hospital. seen him loads of times and seen people falling for it. never intervened.

I get approached by the bike guy every couple of weeks.

xps, i guess it's possible that KFC refused to serve him, maybe, and he wanted someone to get the chicken for him.

finger lickin hood

there was a colonel of truth in his story it seems.

I get approached by the bike guy every couple of weeks.

bethnal green? i've seen him all over the place, once really near my flat but more often whitechapel or shoreditch.

Theobald's Road, the Strand, Camden...he gets about.

Jesus, he prob does alright from it. There is something kinda morbid about him.

i am filled with hatred rn

― the spectacular cow (Lamp), Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:29 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

somehow misread this as 'i am filled with ham rn'

I’ve made friends with the homeless people in my area and their character is amazing. I’ve had a cast applied for my broken arm by a former nurse who is homeless, been given beer, smokes and pot. Ultimately character is what counts imo not life circumstance

lol

:(

I saw an interesting talk recently about these programmes that involve homeless people in the creation and/or production of operas. Streetwise in London has been going on since 2000; the Opéra de Montréal project started just a couple of years ago and just presented a new opera about two weeks ago (I didn't see it):

http://www.streetwiseopera.org/about-us
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/theatre-and-performance/lopera-de-montreal-collaborates-with-formerly-homeless-to-craft-opera/article33351804/

So many rough sleepers in London right now: I walked the canal from St John’s Wood to King’s Cross around 8am and under half of the underpasses, there were men rolled up in sleeping bags and dirty uncovered duvets. A few days ago, walking from Dalston to Angel on another stretch of the canal, people were sleeping in little tents on grass verges.

The government here makes me sick.

After spending the last 8 years in various reaching out to the homeless, my advice (possibly obvious) would be never give them money. I’ve seen them clear 70 dollars a day, spend 10 bucks a pop on heroin or meth (or cheaper)

Most homeless people I know around here get food all day, that would benefit them vs the cash. Also a lot of homeless people live in shelters or even drift and crash on friends couches. A good 8-10 hours of their day may be spent panning, usually early to late afternoon or evening.

Ime most homeless people are not worth trying to befriend,
I’ve had a guy I knew 8 years scream at me while in the throes of crack. Some are sweethearts, names withheld because i respect their anonymity.

Often the police let them off with drug possession, the kinds of things the cops give them a court date for involve stealing money from parking metres, vending machines or fights with other street people or cops.

Without going too deep into how many of these people are victims of sexual abuse (especially women who are often approached to be picked up or alcohol is given to them to try to get them to come back to some assholes place) - - -
Local resources like Work BC will offer anyone a job if they spend 4 weeks or so cleaning up their clothes and act. The act is the harder part, clothes and food and free transit passes are all provided by Work BC. The reason my friend doesn’t work in her words is “I can’t work around other people” and “I would get dope sick”. Attempts to offer to take her to the hospital, 12 step or an alternative rehab centre are met with indifference. First thing and last thing on a lot of these folks minds is scoring and doing drugs.

How can you blame them? I would want to be out my gourd if I was on the street too. Also most homeless people in specific areas know every other street person, often sharing the same dealer.

Anyway, here’s some homeless slang to finish up:

Side: meth
“Got any side?”
Red zone: police kicking you off a block or radius for crimes
“I was redzoned for stealing from a parking metre”
Goof: pedo or human trash person
Binner: bottle or can collector

Etc

wow great tips ross, thanks for "redzoning" me on giving to the homeless.
and you say they could all get jobs but aren't willing? damn, sounds like these homeless are a bunch of "goofs"

No need for the snark

My post was intended to be thoughtful

Not to one up anyone

You can give if you like. Sometimes I still give money. Your world

big news from the Ninth Circuit Court:

Cities may not prosecute homeless people for sleeping outside if they have no access to shelter, appeals court rules

we should give them some homes . i think there are plenty empty ones around .

san francisco, one of the richest cities on earth, cannot afford to provide for its homeless, but can afford to roll rocks onto the sidewalk where they sleep.

this country's contempt for the poor *it creates* is staggering. https://t.co/OpIyguozwy

— p.e. moskowitz (@_pem_pem) September 29, 2019

exterminationist rhetoric against the homeless is obviously a deliberate 2020 strategy for the GOP. Dems should start discussing hate crime protection for the unhoused. Austin's already seen at least two anti-homeless vigilante attacks this year and more will likely follow. https://t.co/q4rwmv1pxI

— Adam H. Johnson (@adamjohnsonNYC) October 2, 2019

they always find money for alcohol tobacco and drugs so i wonder why?!

bye, thanks for playing

poor people all have smartphones and 40" televisions yada yada yada

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